Enjoy YMMV? Please click the above button to subscribe to the show!
Give us your email for show notes and reminders:  
To participate or give feedback, email us at ymmvpod@gmail.com.

Episode 100: Ghosted Again, MFF Threesome Demands, Doggystyle Options, Eating The Nut

Team YMMV | 1-12-2023 | 1:03:33

Read The Transcript

      RSS             S      

In a nod to the ladies, we spend a considerable amount of time this episode discussing the experience of being "ghosted" after having sex with a man on the "third date." It seems like a painful but perhaps unavoidable experience. It also seems more likely to happen to someone the man doesn't want his friends to meet, or who is generally less attractive than his target demographic.

I was inclined to title this episode, "The Ghost in the Cumbox" -- but I realized that wouldn't really make much sense, as we didn't really even talk about cumboxes. We did, however, discuss a particular woman's disgust with her man's semen. Is it the semen, or is it him? (It's him)

We did not, however, discuss the fact that I got ChatGPT to write me a story about a woman somehow penetrating a man's penis during the act of sex. At first, I thought maybe it was talking about sounding, but then I realized it was just confused about how sex worked.

If you want to hide somewhere and give your girlfriend oral sex while she's at work in such a way that her coworkers don't notice, does that mean you're gay? And, if you're a woman and your female friend wants you to commit to repeated MFF threesomes with her and her boyfriend, what is really going on?

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/100/threesome

https://ymmv.me/100/disgust

https://ymmv.me/100/hidden-oral

https://ymmv.me/100/doggystyle

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we're going to tackle yet another preposterous threesome justification come discussed office blowjobs and much more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike and Mike. Sometimes in our lives a milestone passes that forces you to reconsider what the point of it all is today's one of those milestones this is the one Hundredth episode of your mileage may vary. How do you feel about that.
  • [00:23] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:30] Mike: It's a lot of time I feel great. Ah I mean the amount of service we provided to people the ah multitudes of I don't even know it's probably 6 figures of of downloads or maybe seven I don't know large numbers of people listening and.
  • [00:45] Keith: And yeah.
  • [00:48] Mike: Being entertained and some getting very angry. Um, nice to appreciate all the listeners and we will keep trying to bring you either good or bad content depending on your um perspective. So.
  • [00:58] Keith: Yeah, we didn't talk about whether we were going to discuss the incident this week
  • [01:06] Mike: Well there too. We got some positive. We got some um negative feedback I Guess that's the right term for it. We also got a very strange I think we ought it had an insane man write us some feedback to about belly buttons. You saw that right.
  • [01:11] Keith: Um, muslim.
  • [01:17] Keith: I I read the first paragraph of that I was like this is too incoherent and too weird I didn't even bother with the rest he was like 4 paragraphs right? Yeah yes.
  • [01:28] Mike: More than that it was it was like ah the book finnegans wake but just sex and belly buttons. So it's just non I don't know what he's trying to say I guess ah his name. His first name is Josh and Josh if you want to try again. We usually get much more succinct feedback that um. We can understand so there you go. But maybe we should talk about it. Yeah.
  • [01:46] Keith: It was something about it was something about his wife likes belly button play but he has an Audi or she has an Audi and he didn't know how to an Audi belly button I mean he he didn't know he wanted some tips for how to engage with.
  • [01:56] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [02:04] Keith: Such a belly button or something. Yeah, yeah, sorry listeners. Well we'll we'll try to dig further into this we can discuss it.
  • [02:05] Mike: Maybe I mean it was. It was pretty incomprehensible. Um, but yes, but maybe we should talk about the um the I don't did you want to talk about the negative feedback we got from the person that you exposed to the podcast. They might be listening.
  • [02:18] Keith: Yeah, that occurs to me I don't know maybe we should talk about talking about it and then we can talk about it next episode.
  • [02:22] Mike: Maybe not I don't care all right? So I got some feedback this week also from because we talked about um the ah statistics on pornhub. Ah, in terms of what people were searching for It was a good piece of feedback. The argument was basically that ah, the reason why the number 1 search for thing in the United States is Ebony and the reason why the number 1 thing in the in the state of California is asian is not because that's showing some preponderance of um.
  • [02:50] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [02:58] Mike: Search activity. It's it's because it's it's it's disaggregated meaning ah the or I guess aggregated the ah other people are searching for things like blowjob or you know Pi Iv or cream pie or whatever. But.
  • [03:11] Keith: And yes, the normal stuff.
  • [03:14] Mike: Sure. But then there's this significant demographic. That's just searching for Ebony or Asian or whatever and the thing is that that's going to dominate then because the because there there aren't people searching for Ebony blowjob or even if there are they may be not disaggregating that properly in the data and that makes sense to me as an explanation for why that would show up so you it just shows that there's a substantial. Ah.
  • [03:21] Keith: I see.
  • [03:34] Mike: Plurality of people searching for ebony in the us and asian in California but that doesn't mean yeah I mean there's there's still a ton of other topics being searched for there just aren't there isn't any one that's is popular I thought that was probably correct right.
  • [03:40] Keith: Yeah, okay, yeah, there's nothing that has a majority for sure. So the plurality when it's spread across so many different things is not really that indicative of anything.
  • [03:54] Mike: I found ah the subreddit most recent subredit that I've been enjoying the most is called girls finishing the job. Are you familiar with this one. You know it's ah it's pretty nice. It's so basically. Ah.
  • [03:58] Keith: Okay I am.
  • [04:07] Mike: I mean yeah I mean I guess it's it's it's women swallowing getting nutted on and pi iv cream pie stuff. But it's sort of like it's it's it's sort of toward the end of the act. In fact, yeah I mean you could imagine something like a Tiktok being created just with those gifs or they're not really gifts these short videos that would be kind of compelling as it went on and on. Um.
  • [04:22] Keith: Yeah I mean I think that subreddit is where a lot of men go when they feel like they are arriving close to completion I don't I don't like.
  • [04:32] Mike: Is that what you know you use. Yeah I don't know what you do you use some strange.
  • [04:39] Keith: Come shots that much.
  • [04:41] Mike: Um I don't like the external ones I like the internal ones though if it's yeah I don't want to see the semen typically. Okay.
  • [04:45] Keith: Sure Yeah, but I get yeah I guess I Just don't focus on finding um the perfect come shot to you know time with my orgasm.
  • [04:57] Mike: Okay I don't do that either by just looking for. Yeah no I hear you you one could do that. But it's dead doesn't yeah, it's also be kind of tip to tricky to time it properly because a lot of times the guy doesn't make a lot of well I mean that's why there's that announcement thing with blowjobs. Um.
  • [05:09] Keith: Um, right.
  • [05:12] Keith: Is there is there a ruin to orgasms subreddit. This would be the opposite of girls finishing the job now.
  • [05:14] Mike: Um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there is there is I never find that very compelling because and I don't know I don't know what you would call it I don't know what the name is, but it's not that compelling because I always find the female behavior kind of forced I mean that it's just they're pretending to.
  • [05:30] Keith: No.
  • [05:33] Mike: Ah, to do these kind of weird, not very natural things like yeah I mean like it's it's like yeah, it's sort of strange to like stop all assistance right? when the guy is nutting or to make fun of him to start slapping his cock or whatever doesn't it doesn't strike me as very believable.
  • [05:45] Keith: Um, right.
  • [05:53] Keith: Right? right? Ah yeah, I'm not I mean it doesn't seem compelling what I'm trying to be aroused. There could be some you know it could be like sports bloopers or something.
  • [05:53] Mike: And I also don't get why someone would like that.
  • [06:08] Keith: Yeah.
  • [06:08] Mike: That's true. It's like Fail Army Fail Army one? Um, okay, we also were talking about um, third dates and before the show and we we paused our conversation because we thought it would be good for the show itself and basically.
  • [06:14] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [06:25] Mike: Ah, you were talking about the experience that a woman might have ah when she gets ghosted after having sex with a guy on the third date. Um, which isn't is actually curiously something that I haven't really thought that much about before and it must be a really really common experience for women and and one that is pretty.
  • [06:32] Keith: So yeah.
  • [06:45] Mike: I'm going to guess painful I mean what's you I mean you must have talked to a number of women who've had this experience right? Yeah sure.
  • [06:48] Keith: Yeah I don't think the third date part is any kind of magic number. But I think it's common for women to decide that they would like to sleep with a man and subsequently to have them not reach out to them ever.
  • [07:07] Mike: Right.
  • [07:08] Keith: Again, Ah maybe in spite of their ah attempts to reach out themselves.
  • [07:16] Mike: So importantly, this should be differentiated from one one night stand this is where I mean the reason I brought up the third date thing is this is not you go home from a bar this is where the man is ah doing a good job acting for the woman as if this is the beginning of a relationship that he's interested in that and then.
  • [07:18] Keith: Yeah, sure right? right? right. Um, yeah, right.
  • [07:33] Mike: And then importantly for me what' what I hadn't really considered is the experience for the woman I mean I can understand the experience of the guy after the you know the next day after having sex with her two days later they talk and he says yeah I just I don't know not feeling it that would upset her but the complete cessation of any communication.
  • [07:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [07:50] Mike: And basically blocking org via all forms of communication that and and basically your view is effectively all women who online date have had that experience right.
  • [07:59] Keith: I imagine I mean unless they're married right? Um I mean you could you can get lucky and ah I mean there's ah a few situations where you wouldn't have that experience. Maybe you just really really really vet people.
  • [08:03] Mike: Um, so what's the.
  • [08:13] Keith: For a long time or you refuse to sleep with people until two months in um, that might help although that might just delay the inevitable. Um.
  • [08:14] Mike: Great like.
  • [08:22] Mike: So you think so a couple things so this is this does imply that after say the day from one day after to some period of time after the first sexual encounter a woman's on pins and needles wondering whether she's going to get any messages from the guy she knows that it's possible. This could happen. Um, it's a little like.
  • [08:37] Keith: A veteran would know it's possible I think people who are not online dating or dating experts might be sort of confused and not know what to think I mean the onus is generally on the man to reach out and you know ask for subsequent dates and express.
  • [08:39] Mike: Ah.
  • [08:56] Keith: Yeah, some sort of enthusiasm and so women often play with or would like to play a passive role but because of the way men behave are often forced to behave otherwise.
  • [08:56] Mike: Right.
  • [09:06] Mike: Right? So so so do you think the men I'm not going to ask I don't I'm not interested in this case, whether you've had this behavior. You might not even want to be honest because like it could augur poorly for you. But so my my question is more like do you think that men pre-plan this.
  • [09:17] Keith: Um, bright. Yeah.
  • [09:25] Mike: So in other words on date 1 they think okay this is going to be a ah ah pump and dump.
  • [09:27] Keith: Um, yeah I don't know I mean yeah I mean so on a one night stand. Both parties know what's up and there's nothing wrong, but.
  • [09:38] Mike: Yes.
  • [09:42] Keith: Ah, yeah, like ah in this situation we're describing. You know we're we're calling it the the three night stand or 3 date stand is I mean it's rough because it implies that the man was just pretending the whole time over the course of 3 dates. You know, probably asking questions about your family.
  • [09:54] Mike: Arrived.
  • [10:00] Mike: Right.
  • [10:01] Keith: And you know your career and your hopes and dreams and you know probably you know some hand waving about future plans all just to get into your pants and that's got to be a sort of frustrating experience.
  • [10:15] Mike: I'm I'm imagining that probably that I mean that that could be 1 1 experience could be that the guy is just feigning the entire time. But I think I'm also thinking it's possible that as a guy there's some sort of fact pattern like the first 8 he's interested. Second date he continues to be interested but something is revealed in the second third date. That's not great that he realizes okay like some somehow his interest begins to wane and he says okay and then at some point he has to make the call like do I am I a gentleman about this and declare my lack of interest before um, getting my nut.
  • [10:34] Keith: Yeah.
  • [10:47] Keith: Right.
  • [10:49] Mike: Or do I do I go ahead and get the nut and then do the ghost move and it makes sense to me that actually to be honest with you. It makes sense to me that pretty much all guys are capable of doing this. It's just a question of at what point do they realize they've lost interest. Um.
  • [11:01] Keith: Um, yeah I right I suspect. Yeah I think that's what's going on there but we can talk about that after this I suspect what's going on is the men haven't really.
  • [11:05] Mike: And then I guess deciding to ghost is a separate topic. You know it's separate kind of decision that could just be coward legals. Yeah yeah.
  • [11:20] Keith: Fully considered whether they're interested in this person and the overwhelming urge is to try to get laid and so they're not really evaluating things in you know the clear light of day. They're sort of you know, overwhelmed by this urge to you know.
  • [11:23] Mike: Um.
  • [11:25] Mike: Um, to write.
  • [11:38] Mike: Um, Brian.
  • [11:40] Keith: Try to get them naked and so it's not really that they are you know sitting around and being like I really have no interest in this person I feel like you know she's a skier I'm a snowboarder. Ah she likes Iss a boarding person I'm a night person. You know the. I don't think they're you know making pros and cons up on a whiteboard I think they're just not really thinking about it and then after they've had sex it. Yeah, it's sort of like the ultimate post-nut clarity after the first time you have sex you you sort of for the first time are pulling back the curtain and and thinking about that person. Um, because you're not overwhelmed by this. You know, sexual desire for them.
  • [12:23] Mike: Don't I mean don't you think it's possible to have an initial level of interest in a person and or somewhat common to have an initial level of interest in in a person to realize somewhere say in the first to second date that you have the ability to take a shot on goal here. But. Also to realize that like this isn't someone you want to introduce to your friends or really deal with in the long term and you think to yourself look like I just want to like notch another but another notch on my bed post and like this will you know it'll be fun. Yeah yeah, okay.
  • [12:48] Keith: Yeah I'm sure there are many men who are yet not honestly going on second and third dates they're doing it with a certain intention and I mean and there's all kinds of questions of us I mean at what age does it.
  • [13:01] Mike: Right? yeah.
  • [13:07] Keith: Like let's say you think that's inappropriate and you should never sleep with someone unless you are considering them as a potential marriage target that seems like a naive point of view but that that could be a point of view that people have is there. Some I mean there's obviously when you're you know 19 or something you can't be held to that standard. Like at what point does it become outrageous to consider strategizing about how to hook up with someone without intending to marry them.
  • [13:35] Mike: Yeah I don't know I mean it's yeah, it's fair I mean it's it's.
  • [13:41] Keith: I think none I think the onus is on I mean look if you're talking to the person and it's clear that there's like a huge mismatch in your values then I guess it gets sort of dishonest. Um, so maybe maybe that's the thing that matters is this.
  • [13:52] Mike: Yeah.
  • [13:58] Keith: Symmetry and presumed values.
  • [13:59] Mike: Um, well I think that I mean I think that is a couple things one is that regardless the behavior of ghosting is like ah it's like pretty unnecessarily brutal I think in most cases and like clearly like ah it strikes me that that must be a pretty difficult. Difficult psychologically for the woman particularly because I have a strong suspicion that there are certain women read less attractive women to whom that happens repeatedly and then I could see them becoming very distressed in a lot of ways because they're just yeah, there's some a certain brutality there. Um, so so there's.
  • [14:26] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [14:35] Keith: Yeah, well, there's there's there's I mean maybe we can just earmark this for a second. There's lots of people who like sleep with people on first dates and then like can't figure out white people don't call them back and that's got to be I mean I guess this is even worse right? like.
  • [14:39] Mike: Yeah.
  • [14:48] Mike: Um, yeah, sort of.
  • [14:54] Keith: You're you're like actually you have the patient yourself you being the female in this situation have the patient yourself to sort of like go on dates assume that people are acting in good faith and to have it repeatedly occur that they then ghost you after you sleep with them I mean that's.
  • [15:12] Mike: Doesn't wouldn't that typically mean that on that sex date that happens during at some point during that ah evening into night that the man has to say in many cases, a bunch of things to the woman that like are just kind of psychopathically false.
  • [15:13] Keith: Not great.
  • [15:26] Keith: I don't know, especially as I as I've dated older women as I've aged myself I think that it's almost a faux Pa to ask stuff like that like I think the sort of like coastal elite woman.
  • [15:27] Mike: But in the light of day. Um.
  • [15:46] Keith: Is meant to ah be sexually liberated and not future plan and ask the questions that they may you know have temptation to ask but they might actually suppress asking that.
  • [16:03] Mike: Um, but I just meant even to woo someone don't you have to I mean when you're trying to woo someone you're you're in the process of moving from dinner and drinks into putting your penis in their vagina isn't aren't there. Some things that have to be said that in the light of day she could say look like this was.
  • [16:03] Keith: So I'm ah.
  • [16:21] Mike: Dishonest like you knew you knew as you were um Wow you're just you just some some sort of like Wow you you look amazing. You're beautiful. You're ah I really like blah blah blah about you Just some things that woo a person right? I mean things that in that indicate.
  • [16:23] Keith: Um, like what what? what's give me an example.
  • [16:39] Mike: A heightened level of interest in them and certainly not the notion that in you know oh in 3 hours I will delete you from my phone and block your phone number like things that would be not ah congruent with that behavior that you're about to undertake I mean so right am I right? that you know.
  • [16:41] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [16:45] Keith: Right? right.
  • [16:52] Keith: Okay, okay, all right all right right? There's a few things here. The first is it's not that they're deleting them from the phone. It's more. It's more cowardice like that the next day happens and they're like yeah and and then like what are they supposed to do like they should probably pick up their phone.
  • [17:01] Mike: Um, okay.
  • [17:09] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [17:11] Keith: Maybe not maybe not immediately the next morning maybe maybe sit on it for a day and then be like hey you know I really enjoyed getting to know you I I Just don't feel like I'm in a place right now like just make up some say some B s.
  • [17:16] Mike: Ah, yeah.
  • [17:21] Mike: Um, well I mean would it would a woman prefer it just just to just? um, ah just ideating little here would a woman prefer it if you went on that fourth date and just got into an argument with her. We have a friend who I think would be very good at this and just.
  • [17:34] Keith: Yeah, your right? Ah yeah, you would you want to read? you would you? what a reason to not want a daype I'll give you 1
  • [17:36] Mike: Just pick a fight with her and and you know look he just says look I got to tell you you know I'm but he's like that Matt Gates is a great congressman whatever that just starts the starts the fight.
  • [17:48] Keith: Yeah, and I think I think Andrew Tate has some smart things to say. Yeah, um.
  • [17:54] Mike: Is that what she wants I mean which you rather which is worse for the woman being being ghosted or feeling like she yeah in some ways I feel like men could women might prefer it if they could feel like they won the situation. it's it's um it's it's you're saying it's some. Cowardice I think that's right partly, but it's also a way for the man to win. There's like a Seinfeld episode where ah Elaine gets mad at Kramer because he says hi to an ex-boyfriend of her from her. He says oh Elaine has says hi and she's like no I won the breakup now I have to go back and rewind the breakup and then it turns out she actually still likes the guy blah blah blah. But.
  • [18:22] Keith: Ah, right right.
  • [18:28] Mike: But yeah I mean that's a thing right? winning. So the guy by ghosting has actually won the breakup right last. The last thing that happened between them was he ejaculated in her I mean that's pretty good right.
  • [18:32] Keith: Yeah, right, right? But what move does the woman have to try to win Once she's been coasted just.
  • [18:43] Mike: She can't no, but the the move she could do would be like to invite to get him to go out with her and then reject him then she wins right? I mean if if it imply if he he seems to want her again I know so I was saying maybe maybe like the culture would be better served by men.
  • [18:53] Keith: Um, right? but the ghosting implies that he won't respond to such an invite.
  • [19:01] Mike: Ah, just having a way sort of a set of stock arguments. They could have with women to to make the woman get mad at them and then there'd be less kind of man-hating out there on Tiktok and related to social networks.
  • [19:10] Keith: Um, I mean what is the magnitude of Terribleness caused by ghosting someone I mean I think the context matters of course. But if you go on 1 date. Ah do you have an obligation to tell the person that.
  • [19:24] Mike: Okay, okay, hang on say I think I can I think I can do this for you. So okay I'll I'll give it to you so you meet somebody at a let's say you go to meet up about some topic. You're interested in Star Trek or something.
  • [19:27] Keith: You You aren't interested I Think if they ask you out again you you should say No thanks. But.
  • [19:40] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [19:44] Mike: You meet somebody Maybe as a guy just seems like a nice fellow and so on and so forth and no yeah, so it's just some friend and you and you talk and like oh yeah, let's you know? and so you seem to have commonalities and you go hang out some other time and then um and then you you hang out. Ah another time and and he says hey man I ah.
  • [19:47] Keith: It's the the girl at the Star Trek meetup.
  • [19:53] Keith: Oh I see yep, go ahead.
  • [20:03] Mike: I could really could you spot me twenty bucks and you do and then he ghosts you or like I had this guy ah same was Chris that ah this was many many many years ago but he built some ah some stuff for me like ah some steps and stuff outdoors for me.
  • [20:19] Keith: Ah.
  • [20:19] Mike: And I made the mistake and I'd had him do a lot of stuff and I made the mistake of giving him an advance for something and the guy ghosted me right? He didn't do the work and he goes to me and I was kind of like look I don't even care about the money I just want ah somebody to do this work and he you know I'm sure he was embarrassed. He never replied.
  • [20:26] Keith: And wow.
  • [20:35] Keith: Maybe I don't know if he was embarrassed or if he was touched out dancing. But yeah, he wasn't going to reply in either case.
  • [20:36] Mike: Yeah I mean that's I think that's similar right? I don't think I don't think so I think he he. It's a mistake right? because he lost an employer and and he yeah he would rather he but but yeah, so that's the thing is I basically told him like you can just take the money and we'll start from scratch and he still wouldn't reply.
  • [20:46] Keith: Um, sure.
  • [20:51] Keith: Right? right? Okay, yeah, you're right that implies embarrassment.
  • [20:56] Mike: Ah, but I think that I think that right the ah but the the friend scenario I think is something like what the woman would experience and it's even worse if like that happens to you 7 times in a row right? where where people keep seeming to be friends with you and and then as soon as you give them like twenty bucks they disappear.
  • [21:04] Keith: Bright. Yeah, but okay, yeah I mean look I I don't yeah I don't really have I mean this is look I say a lot of immodest things but this just doesn't.
  • [21:13] Mike: Like it's rough right? I think it could lead to suicide. Maybe I don't know it sounds really bad. Yeah.
  • [21:27] Keith: Happened to me like I don't I get ghosted occasionally but normally it's because I wasn't demonstrating much interest like it was almost intentional and yeah, like this experience of like giving my body to somebody and having them ignore me. Ah.
  • [21:34] Mike: Sure sure but like I'm sure you know you you.
  • [21:45] Keith: Fortunately has not happened to me yet that too.
  • [21:46] Mike: For well for a guy that sounds pretty good, but but that's why I was trying to make an analogy that involves money or or some kind of ah a good. Maybe oh here's another one the kid everybody had this the kid in their neighborhood whose parents gave them all the video game consoles like yet or whatever they had like a really good selection of video games.
  • [21:59] Keith: Yeah, right.
  • [22:04] Mike: Ah, and and and and somebody would befriend them quote unquote just to come over and play their video games right? and then and then and the whole thing was if if the mom if they're like hey you know hey ah Joey can I you know let's play tomorrow and he's like oh my mom ah took away the game console and you're like okay I don't let's call you next week
  • [22:08] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [22:21] Mike: Right? I mean that's a really common kid experience like it's the same. So the the point is it doesn't happen to you because you are fortunate enough to have and it wouldn't happen to a really hot chick right? They were this ghosting thing or it's much less likely but I can I can ah empathize that there are people out there ah to whom this would happen right.
  • [22:34] Keith: Um, right.
  • [22:39] Keith: What what should a man do after he goes on a third date and sleeps with someone and decides that he's not interested. What is the most ethical thing he can do at that point he's done an unethical thing in ethical. But.
  • [22:40] Mike: Ah, yeah.
  • [22:55] Mike: Okay, so I can't say I can't I'm not allowed to say don't have sex with her. Yeah I mean yeah and and to be fairer to be fair I'm a guy so I don't actually feel that way like I feel like I'm I'm pretty much okay with um.
  • [22:58] Keith: Right? Stipulating The bad thing has happened.
  • [23:10] Mike: Life in the big city I'm okay with guys notching their bed posts like I get it I get that a guy would want to do that and that he's thinking to himself look. She's not that attractive to me. But maybe she'll have some trick she'll do or whatever I'll just have a it'll just be great like I'll have a partnered orgasm. It'll feel awesome and whatever like that life goes on. Ah once he's done that um.
  • [23:18] Keith: Yeah.
  • [23:29] Mike: I Yeah I think the obvious is he should actually face the music and have a conversation with her where he's at least somewhat honest, not not. He doesn't have to be totally honest, like hey I was just trying to bang you but like he should yeah I think the best thing to do would be to have some communication ghosting. It seems very.
  • [23:45] Keith: What should he convey in that conversation.
  • [23:47] Mike: Strange Yeah, ah yeah, that he's that he you know wants to keep you know doesn't doesn't want a relationship with her though you know maybe can we be friends or whatever mean it's not going to be great. She's going to be upset regardless but it's it's not as but like the ghosting is real like. Thing about that is that it really, There's no way she comes out of that without just kind of hating men on some level. It's like oh you know what.
  • [24:11] Keith: Yeah, but if he's going to deliver a text such shit sandwich. What can he say that mitigates that I Just don't think ghosting is I think it's offensive to ghost and people should not be cowards.
  • [24:23] Mike: It's True. It's True. There's yeah I That's a fair point I mean like. Yeah, but it won't matter. Yeah.
  • [24:30] Keith: But the main thing that that they did was they decided that their sexual desire was more important than this other person's feelings and trying to paper over that with some sort of nicely crafted text is basically impossible.
  • [24:38] Mike: Yeah, correct.
  • [24:48] Keith: And it's so impossible that I'm not sure that ghosting is substantially worse. It's worse. But it's it's it's it goes from like yeah like your your behavior was like a 3 out of 10 and maybe you can get it to like a three and a half out of 10 with a nice text or something.
  • [24:52] Mike: Um, I think you're right I think yeah fall.
  • [25:00] Mike: Yeah, now you're right? So yeah I was thinking of the analogy I had before imagine and I'll try to be delicate with this that every time that you had this friending then they borrow money then they disappear thing every time you had it happen. It was someone that was taller than six foot 3 just try I just trying to make it be a physical characteristic about the person without anything that touches a third rail. Ah, after that happened like 5 times you would start to kind of hate people that are over six foot 3 right? like if 1 of them came to befriend you, you'd be like oh you're you're one of those people right? and so that's the thing like and it it doesn't actually even okay and here's the thing even if one of those taller people.
  • [25:17] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [25:31] Keith: Yeah.
  • [25:36] Mike: Even if every time they like sent you an email they're like hey man sorry I don't have your money like I can't like but but I'm but I'm but I'm sending you an email. It wouldn't actually right, It might help a little but you'd still be like those fucking tall people and and I think yeah, that's the thing is in this is by the way that the reason I think that's relevant is that this almost certainly sorry, it's.
  • [25:44] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [25:55] Mike: More broadly relevant than just dating or just tinder or something I think this does lie at the heart of the fundamental experience that like sort of and ah this is rough to say but this does lie at the heart I think of the experience of an of what of an unattractive woman who becomes kind of a radical feminist I think this is part of the reason. Is because they this happens to them repeatedly and they're finally just like look men's suck which I get like like for for you men do suck just like ah yeah, there's certain there are certain certain types of situations that suck for a man like a poor man. Well the thing is men just won't women just won't even talk to you. It's ah.
  • [26:14] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, right.
  • [26:31] Mike: But is it the ah I think I've said this before on the podcast but psychologically speaking to a to men women who are unattractive Annoy us they annoy us so like just like having a waitress who's unattractive or whatever apparently like it raises whatever hormone is just sort of irritation or annoyance for a woman being around an unattractive man. They just don't see you.
  • [26:48] Keith: Right? right.
  • [26:49] Mike: Like you're invisible and so that yeah like so so men have a slightly different experience of just women won't even acknowledge your existence which is it's also painful but it's not the same. So anyway you know and you probably don't want to attack feminists like I just did. But.
  • [26:59] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [27:06] Keith: Oh no I mean I think the the origin story for people becoming feminists is is varied but that is definitely in inbound Road I'm sure. Yeah.
  • [27:08] Mike: There you go.
  • [27:14] Mike: Yeah, know, yeah and it sucks and I'm not sure. Yeah, there's not much you can do because their men are simply going to do that. They're going to pursue that nut and women are going to be taken in by the things. The guy says because he sounds very convincing. Um.
  • [27:26] Keith: Um, right.
  • [27:30] Mike: You have a pattern by the way that you used to you don't have to say what it is but a pattern to get women from that dinner table or drink to the the sweet suite of blue covered bed. You have behind you.
  • [27:36] Keith: no no I think you just invite them over and you could generally tell if they're open to such a thing. It's not worth hazarding the ask if you're not like 80% sure
  • [27:43] Mike: Okay, yeah.
  • [27:50] Mike: When you let me ask 1 more question actually about this? Um, typically this isn't exact but typically at what be okay, so the end point of this question is your ejaculation.
  • [28:04] Keith: Um.
  • [28:05] Mike: Starting point is when you say your last word to her when is the starting point chip typically is it is it like when you penetrate her Vagina is it when you both get naked. Is it when you're caressing each other on a couch like when is the last word that's coherent I mean I realize you might be like oh that feels great or something. Let's let's ignore those kinds of.
  • [28:20] Keith: I Don't know. Yeah I mean I mean I'm asking for micro consent the whole time. Do those count.
  • [28:26] Mike: When you switch to nonverbal another Okay God fair point I forgot about your microcoscent consent decree your microcons consent decree. That's good. Ah I would imagine that it's like on the couch before you like once you get to the bed. There's basically no more verbal comp.
  • [28:41] Keith: Yeah I mean something like funny or embarrassing might happen which might cause you to like what does it break the fourth wall briefly. But yeah I think typically what's the clothes come off people switch into this.
  • [28:43] Mike: Communication Typically yeah.
  • [28:48] Mike: Yeah.
  • [28:54] Mike: Ah, yeah.
  • [29:01] Mike: Yeah, the woman's putting herself in this machine. She's like she's become the pinball and the pinball machine or whatever. She's yeah okay, what? yeah.
  • [29:01] Keith: More animalistic mode. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's not great. 1 other thing on ghosting the nice thing about a text is it gives the person closure right? so.
  • [29:16] Mike: Right? yeah.
  • [29:18] Keith: If if you don't if you don't say anything. They just don't know and so you know like every day that goes by. They're sort of writing off the future potential even further but they're probably not writing it off enough like if you don't get a text the next day you should basically write it off to see right? Would they'd be pleasantly surprised if they do text but ah. Most people don't behave that way. They're like oh you know should I keep my Friday open or not right like I don't know and it's.
  • [29:42] Mike: Would the but would any text you get be perceived as gloating like it's like if I get the text from the the six foot 3 guy and he's like by the way I still got that twenty bucks like like I'm loving that twenty bucks like I mean what could he even say I guess he could just.
  • [29:59] Keith: Um I don't think there's nothing like you're just trying to give the closure like you can you? You should pay some lip service and you know hand wavy and just be like sorry I'm not just make it about you. Don't complain about anything about them. Be like you know, don't say.
  • [29:59] Mike: What what could he say made me feel better. Yeah, okay.
  • [30:15] Keith: Didn't like what you said about this. Don't try to litigate anything just say sorry I'm you know I didn't feel a spark or something and I wish you the best and look. It's a shit sandwich. It sucks but the alternative is 0
  • [30:27] Mike: And her reply will be something like yoga. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [30:34] Keith: And there's nothing. There's nothing. There's nothing that you can do to better that the thing you could do to better that is to have not done it in the first place. Um, and then some people are so afraid of this that they'll go on like further dates. Some people are so afraid of it that they fucking get married to these people that they hate.
  • [30:37] Mike: And yeah.
  • [30:50] Mike: Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
  • [30:53] Keith: Because they just never want to like hurt. Someone's feelings like it sucks and you should like try to behave in a way that you know doesn't maximize hurt feelings but you know here we are.
  • [30:59] Mike: Right? right? I like the I didn't feel a spark though I I didn't even feel a spark when you were swallowing my come. She's like God Damn I can't spark with that What Sparks have I got yeah that's rough.
  • [31:14] Keith: Back to the drag board I got to listen to yvi and get some tips all right, let's ah, let's get into some of these topics that I promised in the intro. So um, let's see here. Yeah, let's do this threesome one first just because it's.
  • [31:17] Mike: That's true.
  • [31:21] Mike: Yeah.
  • [31:31] Keith: Kind of short and sweet. So for our non longtime listeners. We have a check in on threesome concepts every 2 or 3 episodes and there's just so many preposterous reasons that people get involved with threesomes that they're almost all a bad idea and this is one of them.
  • [31:39] Mike: Yeah.
  • [31:49] Keith: Keep having a threesome that I don't really want long story short I an eighteen year old female keep having a threesome with my friend and the guy she likes my friend also an 18 year old female has had a crush on her friends with benefits a 29 year old male for a while now a few months ago he asked her if she wanted a threesa with him and 1 of her friends. Because she's head over heels for him. She said? Yes, they asked me to have a threesome and because I was drunk and wanted to help my friend out I said yes now fast forward to the present. My friend just repeatedly asked me to have more threesomes she says she's getting really close to him and that these threesomes are really helping her to get closer I really doubt this but I do want to help out my friend I don't hate hooking up with them. They're both attractive and I enjoy the sex. But I don't like the guy I feel like he's a douchebag he is I don't think he'll female female. It's 2 18 year old females with this twenty nine year old male right? but but I don't like the guy I feel like he's a douche bag.
  • [32:30] Mike: Wait What? what? what? gender is's the person talking I forgot okay gone. Yeah, okay oh this is pretty hot that guy's lucky all right? Oh man.
  • [32:45] Keith: I Don't think he'll ever want to be more than friends with benefits with my friend's insightful. What do I do the? yeah the top comment basically says it all. Yeah, if having threesomes with you is what's winningtting him over for her. That's not going to bode well for long term relationship prospects. He's clearly using her. She's being very very.
  • [32:51] Mike: Um, yeah, is that? Yeah yeah, she.
  • [33:04] Keith: Ah, you've which that's it.
  • [33:05] Mike: Yeah I mean that that makes sense I mean I mean look if I if I mean I think you would agree with me that if let's say you had a girlfriend that had like basically a way for you to have a threesome with a friend of theirs. So it's not a prostitute. It's not going to the weird Swingers club. It's not.
  • [33:20] Keith: Um, yeah, finding a stranger from the internet or at a bar.
  • [33:23] Mike: You know all these other weird situations. Yeah, it's just a friend and it's and it's happening repeatedly like yeah that would I would continue to do that for some period of time until it. Yeah, it would it would be ah I mean imagine telling your friends about that.
  • [33:34] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [33:39] Keith: Right.
  • [33:41] Mike: Like guys Guess guess what I do on weekends like they wouldn't believe you they just say that's not possible I think maybe maybe this younger generation would would find aliev what I don't think so I think this is uncommon so it's tricky This is yeah.
  • [33:44] Keith: Right? right.
  • [33:52] Keith: Yeah, this is like this is an extreme version of older men trying to convince younger women that you know Polly is is all the rage and people are in ethically non-monogamous relationships all over the place and this is what cool people do.
  • [34:08] Mike: Um, right I'm confused about the the mentality of the the woman writing this post though I mean she's she's the other woman. She's the unicorn as they call it.
  • [34:09] Keith: This is like a sort of insane version of that which is.
  • [34:21] Keith: Process This is.
  • [34:24] Mike: And she's just has no emotion about it. She's just like look I I don't like him but I enjoy the sex like okay so maybe she has a thing for her friend. Maybe that's what's going on because why doesn't she just say No yeah, maybe.
  • [34:32] Keith: Yeah, she says they are both attractive and I enjoy the sex. So maybe she's bisexual. But I don't like the guy I feel like he's a Toosh pig. It's really astute comment there.
  • [34:47] Mike: Yeah I mean I guess there's just like a ah certain detachment from the physicalities of the situation in some level on so on some level. Um like okay, a man would never say those things right? Oh well, my friend Keith I just keep having to fuck him because his girlfriend that's what she wants. It's okay, but I'm kind of tired of it I don't like his cock that much. Yeah I just this is ah the thing this is has something to do with female indifference toward the physical act of sex or something or she's attracted to the other woman. Yeah strange.
  • [35:05] Keith: Right? right.
  • [35:12] Keith: Yeah, yeah, or she's so young that she's just bizarrely confused. Yeah I would all right? Let's move on this person.
  • [35:21] Mike: But I mean it sounds compelling I mean I wouldn't I mean this would be hard to turn down right.
  • [35:32] Keith: Says this is a man writing my girlfriend thinks come is disgusting and it makes me feel disgusting my girlfriend and I did you see this one. Okay, yeah, my girlfriend and I have been dating for a bit over a year and we both and we are both in our early 20 s our sex life is okay, but 1 thing that is persisted the whole time is that she thinks come is absolutely disgusting.
  • [35:35] Mike: No, no, no I'm just agreeing. Yeah.
  • [35:52] Keith: She'll never give me blowjobs because she doesn't want pre-cu in her mouth and she never wants me to finish inside of her The compromise we have come to is that what I'm about to finish I could finish on her back or stomach as long as I immediately clean it up with disinfecting wipes like clorox wipes she originally Ch Clorox shout out.
  • [35:55] Mike: Um, through.
  • [36:10] Keith: She originally wanted to be to finish into tissues instead. But I told her I thought that was way too out there I can't help but feel like I'm absolutely I'm absolutely disgusting to her because of this partly because she thinks my natural fluids are absolutely disgusting but also because I think she's sexy and so her natural fluids are so hot and desirable by extension before anyone asks.
  • [36:28] Mike: Um, yeah I don't think like.
  • [36:30] Keith: Don't think it's my come in particular that she thinks is disgusting because I'm a healthy person might come as normal I even tasted it and it's totally fine ll well he's like you and it's been like this our entire relationship am I wrong to suspect that she is either unattracted to me or she thinks I am gross on some level.
  • [36:39] Mike: That's nice.
  • [36:48] Keith: Um.
  • [36:49] Mike: Ah I mean she so here I mean do you have a take I have a take ah now Lord I don't see that hang in. We've litigated this before here's the thing if if.
  • [36:54] Keith: Um, look my take is I agree to Seemen is fucking disgusting and yeah like I I Yes but I know I know I know.
  • [37:06] Mike: The price you had to pay to have sex who's a woman you find really attractive some actress or something where are we going I don't I just all the names of people. But if let's assume we we pick some woman Madame X who's very attractive. Do you and the price to pay was to interact with some guy's semen I think I think.
  • [37:09] Keith: Yeah, like I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [37:22] Mike: I Think it's very likely that in the moment you'd be like ok um, right yeah and like no woman right? Yes, so no and no and I agree that no woman or man who's totally unaroused wants to interact with I mean just like think about it just just transmute it to sweat nobody wants to.
  • [37:23] Keith: Oh absolutely I can I can even though I'm not aroused right now I can abstract I can put myself in that moment and say yes.
  • [37:42] Mike: Ah, go to the gym and like interact with some other person's sweat people get annoyed if their spin bike has sweat on the seat or whatever and I understand why they don't want to deal with other people's bodily foods. What's the thing that changes the woman becomes aroused So what's the saying to me. What's the saying it's saying that she's not aroused when they have sex. That's what's going on. Yeah.
  • [37:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [37:56] Keith: Oh man, this is brutal. Yeah.
  • [38:01] Mike: I Mean it's you know there are you know by the way there's like a it's a surprisingly common thing to see women on the sex. But and other places claim that they get nausea stomach aches all these sorts of things from come and not I suspect that's not real.
  • [38:19] Keith: It's messing up their gut. Microbiome.
  • [38:21] Mike: I Just don't think there's enough of it and I don't think the contents are that what's in there is important enough I mean it's I know it's a little bit basic as opposed to acidic. But I mean so is like I like a rollai through a tums. Yes.
  • [38:31] Keith: Can can people can people get psychosomatic nausea like can you like I might feel nauseous after swallowing some come I can imagine I don't think yeah.
  • [38:43] Mike: Yeah, that's right? Yeah I Just think it's ah a lack of Arousal Typically that's yeah and I and I think this is like this is a common challenge for women because yeah, it's not Arousal is more complicated for women and it's yeah I mean it goes back to that thing about.
  • [38:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [39:00] Mike: FWb's and women getting into these strange situations. Yeah I I suspect that yeah these situations are not very arousing for women oftentimes and so yeah, this guy is probably. It's not yet, she's making him feel disgusting. Okay, but that's not actually what's going on like he.
  • [39:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [39:16] Mike: He would find her disgusting too if he wasn't aroused at all. Yeah yeah.
  • [39:18] Keith: Yeah I mean the first comment was just remember if she hates it now. She's probably not going to change think about if you're okay feeling this way long term I think that's true and the second comment is there's disliking come and there's being actively disgusted by come.
  • [39:28] Mike: Yes, yeah.
  • [39:35] Keith: Sure she doesn't like the taste but she's treating calm like some sort of insect that landed on her having an orgasm while your partner is really is reacting frantically like you sprayed Xenomorph blood on hers to a tough cognitive dissonance. Yeah I mean I think.
  • [39:47] Mike: That's kind of hot to me. But okay if I yeah like the notion of your I think that every you know when you're a small boy your penis I mean there's some. There's some connection between penises and guns right? I mean you get this little this little device in between your legs and you can shoot things with it and so forth.
  • [39:58] Keith: Oh. Sure where are you going with this.
  • [40:04] Mike: And so if my come like hurt someone if it was it was painful if it was like a powerful weapon I think I would kind of like that. But like I'm like here it comes baby get ready I'm going to so I'm going to burn your skin. Yeah I mean that's that's I can imagine like a kind of a kind of hot pornographic scene.
  • [40:14] Keith: Ah, oh no, do do? Yeah yeah.
  • [40:22] Mike: Because it because men want they're they' come to be fat powerful I mean the the internal sensation we have while spewing it out is a a powerful sensation and it's incongruous. Yeah well for sure for sure. Yeah.
  • [40:29] Keith: Right? Yeah imposing imposing on someone can be attractive and in certain contexts. But yeah I mean this guy probably needs to just face the reality that she's not into him.
  • [40:45] Mike: I Think that's what's going on. That's the thing is the yeah the ultimately the way this kind of story I think often plays out is then he learns that she I mean I've seen stories like this where ah the woman was just blowing some other guy and loved it and then he's like what? what.
  • [40:56] Keith: Right? Yeah, you see that all the time. Yeah I mean look there is some tiny chance here that she is you know she's one of these like hyper neat freaks and she's like this with everybody but you might quickly.
  • [41:00] Mike: Yeah, it's is it just me and it's like yeah, it's just you sorry.
  • [41:16] Keith: Come around full circle and be like yeah well she's never really been aroused by. Maybe she doesn't like men or she doesn't care about sex. Are you? There's a chicken and egg here.
  • [41:20] Mike: Yeah, that sounds like an asexual person to me on some level because yeah I mean she's she's I mean like a p I v like cream piing must be just absolutely disgusting to her and she would never ever provide you with the pegging you need. Keith.
  • [41:40] Keith: I was sorry I was muted I reacted not laughing to that. Okay, um I was talking to somebody about pegging the other day. How did it come up. Oh yeah, no I was just I mean I've been like.
  • [41:43] Mike: Okay, oh yeah, woman. You know, nice.
  • [41:58] Keith: Considering this because we talked about it I Just there's just no reason to even try it. It was a woman. There's a woman that um I dated briefly years ago when we had lunch just just to catch up.
  • [42:03] Mike: Oh cheese So who was it a man or a woman you were talking to about oh here we go.
  • [42:13] Mike: Do you think she would peg you if you asked? Yes, no ah, be too intimate as she wouldn't want to rekindle the flame.
  • [42:16] Keith: Ah I don't know. Maybe.
  • [42:25] Keith: And she doesn't seem like the type I'm not sure.
  • [42:29] Mike: Oh interesting and so what what I'm I'm curious a little bit what her So you said there's no reason anyone to do it. Blah Blah Blah What it? What was her take.
  • [42:35] Keith: Oh I was just saying that. Yeah that there's it's possible that I might enjoy that I've just never tried it. She brought it up. It came up I don't remember the context it came up. Yeah I don't remember the context that came up and so obviously this sounds bizarre but it it came up naturally in the flow of conversation.
  • [42:41] Mike: And she she brought it up. Yeah.
  • [42:51] Mike: Which did Wow this reminds me I think I think most women's it reminds me of I was relating to a woman The ah the thing I don't I don't know what it was but it was it was something about lick I'm going to lick you from hole to hole where did we see that it was like a couple episodes ago.
  • [42:54] Keith: It did.
  • [43:06] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [43:08] Mike: Ah, lick you from hole to hole and her immediate reaction was you and I think that most women's reaction to pegging would be the same just like oh I don't want to do that I think.
  • [43:14] Keith: Yeah I don't think women want to see their male partner in a submissive position in general. There might be certain certain times and places or certain women who like that but generally no plus they don't get anything. They don't get any physical simulation out of it.
  • [43:20] Mike: Right? right? Yeah yes, that's right, It's a curious act nobody I mean on some level you could argue maybe nobody does. It's just.
  • [43:37] Keith: Um, some men appear to like it art. Let's move on I don't I don't where this is going to become like a meme that we spent 10 minutes in the middle of every episode wondering of how biging. Ah this person says my boyfriend wants to eat me.
  • [43:39] Mike: I know I know that's why you keep thinking about it. Yeah here you yeah.
  • [43:55] Keith: Out at my work I don't know how this works My boyfriend has this fantasy of his that he would go down on me at work or something where he he can hide under a table or something until I orgasm he has a thing for wanting to give me orgasms while I can't moan and just suppress my feelings of pleasure.
  • [44:02] Mike: So now he's gay.
  • [44:11] Keith: Sometimes he does it when we have sex at Home. He goes crazy when he sees home squirming because I can't utter a sound because he threatens to stop if I did so now he wants to do it while I'm at work preferably with a client or coworker there. So I have to pretend to be unaffected. Anyone who done it. To me. It just seems far-fetched and not Doable. He says it is.
  • [44:32] Mike: I Mean the female. So the reason I muttered that he's gay at the beginning is the female genitals are not um, well-deigned for this kind of activity. It's difficult to it's difficult for them to whatever. Yeah, whatever position. It's not.
  • [44:40] Keith: Angle while sitting in a chair. Yeah.
  • [44:49] Mike: Convenient and that's why I think people often wind up I mean yeah, the thing that she should guide him toward although I know she doesn't want to do this in the first place is one of those remote controlled vibrators because at least that makes sense as like a.
  • [44:57] Keith: Yeah, yeah, the Vagina is more under the woman than the the penis is more in front of the man and the vagina is more under.
  • [45:05] Mike: Well, and also you don't I mean it's I've always ah because I have nothing else in my life I've I've ah marveled before thought about the fact that um, you know a woman can be. For example, if you walked in on a woman showering. You wouldn't know if she was masturbating or not. Just wouldn't unless she was actively doing it because there's no physical manifestation of that and so in that regard women are more secretive but in this regard when when when you want somebody else to interact with your genitals men are more secretive right. Ah, it would actually be very difficult to hide something performed on a woman whereas something performed on a man is is actually pretty easy to hide and it's simply because the man's the the important parts of his penis are kind of far away from his body. So It's relatively easy to just like unzip and then have somebody like so thus you get the hue. Yeah,, go ahead.
  • [45:51] Keith: Um, you could you could digitally penetrate a woman fairly you know like if you're sitting next to each other on an airplane or something.
  • [45:56] Mike: It's complicated is this because of my high school experience that you're bringing this up because I did I didn't So importantly, importantly I did not I did not digitally penetrate her I rubbed the exterior.
  • [46:03] Keith: I Forgot about that. No no I forgot about that. But yeah, yeah, so as you know.
  • [46:13] Mike: Ah, rubbed her clit I could not That's the thing is that when a woman is sitting in a chair in a normal position. You're not going to be able to get access to no, she'd have to scoot down it would it would I'm just saying it would be relatively obvious. Oh yeah, she adapted. This is the thing is this is my my beautiful.
  • [46:19] Keith: You quit a little bit. It's not yeah, that's right, you think and it would arouse suspicion of the fellow passengers. Okay.
  • [46:32] Mike: To me only ah now are like sort of mirror image between men and women here is that guy whereas a guy could just put a you know blanket over it and the woman could be doing all kinds of things to him because it's out there whereas of course and to finish the analogy or the antonym. Ah.
  • [46:48] Mike: If the man is ah beating off in the shower and somebody walks in they'll immediately know it because he is tuidd too messant whatever the word is he's got an erection. Ah yeah, so so so this isn't really possible. The thing this guy wants to do is not possible that much and really, he's putting himself very much in the position that a woman would be in I mean. It's a somewhat typical trope of the woman hidden somewhere blowing a guy like that's like a thing that I've seen in movies like 27 times and not just porns by the way it was in the original police academy movie from the 80 s there's a scene where whoever the character is is speaking at a lectern and there's a woman in.
  • [47:27] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [47:27] Mike: In the lectern and you hear a zip and she gives him a blow and he behaves oddly because he's being pleasured. This is a standard trope right? yeah.
  • [47:34] Keith: Yeah I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you're focusing on the mechanics here I mean obviously they should not do this because it has like an 80% chance of you getting fired.
  • [47:49] Mike: Um, well oh hang on. It's not just the mechanics. It's also the submissive dominant thing I mean he's putting himself in a pretty submissive position. He's a man he wants to service her right? and I think that wanting to service someone is moving toward Bisexual Gay territory.
  • [47:59] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [48:04] Keith: Yeah I mean we've gone through this before Lots of people would contest that but we don't We don't have to do that today.
  • [48:12] Mike: Um, it's much I'm I'm sure look if I'm sure servicing a penis is much more compelling than servicing a vulva.
  • [48:22] Mike: Just like if you remove gender from the like remove hetero homosexuality from the equation I mean penises. It's just easier to do and yeah I mean it's it's just obviously the part that's supposed to be serviced. It's it's got the oil light on you know the female volva. It's like look. It's just not. That's not what it's for you know it's it's. It's got to be you got to kind of lay it out there. You know it needs needs a lot of extra There's a lot of extra stuff. that's yeah that's rights it's more complicated you're talking. Are you talking about a speculum. Yeah, they have different sizes I learned on Tiktok.
  • [48:42] Keith: Get the calipers out or they're not called Calipers. What's the opposite of a caliper I Guess that's what the tool is right. Really why?? What it keep going on. Yeah.
  • [49:03] Mike: Why do they have different sizes. Oh um because they're women of different different sizes. Apparently I mean and it's not just like 2 different sizes I think there's 6 or 10 or something ah right? and so they're trying to they so they need to be able to open it enough that they can.
  • [49:12] Keith: It's like hex wrenches. There's a whole set.
  • [49:19] Keith: What are the things that are different side so out I look all right I'm gonna to have to Google this and I don't kind of speculate them.
  • [49:19] Mike: Visualize the cervix and whatever else.
  • [49:26] Mike: Okay, I mean it's a device that has that that's kind of in it opens up. How do I describe this think of a um, a thing you would use to to ah to tossa salad. That's not the expression I wanted to go for there but but you know not not toss a solidad. Actually it's the thing you would use to pick up tongs sort of that that has 2 parts to it and so you know it can close. But then you can open but only opens in the vertical direction. So it's sort of like that right? you insert it kind of closed and then you crank it open.
  • [49:46] Keith: Yeah. I see it? Yeah yeah.
  • [49:56] Mike: And so I think there's ah, there's ah a circumference it has and and and and so then that would affect how comfortable it is to insert it and then there's and I mean by the way like there are I'm sure this thing device is used on children in certain circumstances too right? So so that you would certainly need those sizes ah and then it then there's a question of how.
  • [50:08] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [50:15] Mike: Broadly it opens and I'm sure that although that you can control right? as you're using it. You don't use a speculum in your sex play with them.
  • [50:20] Keith: Ah, yeah, my guess look. We don't We should definitely stop talking about this but I do not my guess would be that there's some minimal amount that you need to open it to be able to be able to see down it and you need to open it that minimum amount for everyone children and.
  • [50:34] Mike: That's right. Know it would be a different amount I'm sure it's a percentage or something to be able to get it so that you can like an award.
  • [50:38] Keith: You know, big boned people Why you know you need to like let enough light in there I would I would get my my intuition is that it wouldn't be a percentage.
  • [50:49] Mike: I can't answer that this is you're Goingnna have to ask a gynecologist that question. That's an interesting question I don't it's not actually interesting, but it's it's a it's a question I don't have the answer to oh absolutely because there were there's a gyicologist on there. Yeah.
  • [50:55] Keith: But you are aware you you have become aware on Tiktokck that there are different sizes of speculatulums. Okay, so that implies you're right now.
  • [51:06] Mike: Why yeah whether they open a different amount is a good question whether you because you're right that maybe it's a certain number of seven centimeters you have to open it for everybody to get light in there and so forth I mean yeah I don't I just don't know but there's there's the horizontal as well as the vertical dimension so there are sizes in depth.
  • [51:12] Keith: Right? yeah. Yeah, okay, all right I think you'll like this topic because well I'm curious What you have to say about it. My significant other complaints that when we do dogie style. There isn't anything for her to do my so complains that when we do doggie style. There isn't anything for her to do.
  • [51:23] Mike: Yeah.
  • [51:38] Keith: She can't really see me sorry he repeated itself. She can't really see me her hands can't really reach me. She feels like she can't participate. This makes me sad because I loved Auggie style any thoughts or ideas and how to make it more interesting rewarding for her so we've.
  • [51:38] Mike: Um, repetitive.
  • [51:43] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [51:51] Mike: Yeah, so.
  • [51:54] Keith: Talked about this before specifically referencing the Amy Schumer video which is like the female point of view porn where there's just a guy griing his chest into her face.
  • [52:02] Mike: Um, yeah, it's that thing is funny. It's I think it might be her funniest work I don't generally like Amy Schumer that much as most people I think don't but um I have to say that ah that that porn actually turns me on a little bit when I've watched it.
  • [52:07] Keith: Yeah.
  • [52:16] Mike: It's not a real porn right? I mean it's it's It's not really an X rate it but but actually like I kind of like here I do I kind of like how he slaps her hand out of the way and stuff like ah gray I mean it's not actually what my what behavior I have I just kind of find it hot anyway.
  • [52:17] Keith: Ah, right that she's being so imposed on yeah that makes sense.
  • [52:31] Keith: Right? Yeah, no that that tracks based on what I understand your predilections to be but this I think this is actually a good point I mean when she's on her hands and knees and she's you know, staring at you know, whatever offered to the distance. There isn't.
  • [52:37] Mike: Ah, yeah.
  • [52:43] Mike: You know.
  • [52:50] Keith: Much for them to do other than to just take it.
  • [52:52] Mike: Well, what would there be for. Let's let's take the counter thing here. What would there be for her to do in missionary. Yeah.
  • [52:55] Keith: Yeah, all right? So let's use missionary that does the clock. Yeah I don't know they can look at your face they can look down and see themselves being penetrated I guess.
  • [53:02] Mike: Okay, so look. Do you find that most women look or do they close their eyes from a minister missionary now.
  • [53:17] Keith: Close their eyes tightly? um I think it varies I think it varies by person and by moment. Um.
  • [53:22] Mike: Like okay, but ah certainly I don't think that they're that it's that common for them to look at the first of all I think it's actually difficult I don't know if I mentioned this on the podcast. But I I um this was like a couple months ago or a month ago I was using the oculus quest to device.
  • [53:36] Keith: Yeah.
  • [53:39] Mike: For some pornographic viewing and um, ah there was I there aren't that many options to be fair on on the site that I that I was on and for for different categories and 1 of the categories is female point of view which is often I think we watched one of those with Allie I think where it was just.
  • [53:54] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [53:58] Keith: Right.
  • [53:58] Mike: Guys spewing off your face. It wasn't great, but this was one where it was um, the woman's point of view in missionary and the thing that surprised me I Actually think it was not real sex because his penis was so far toward her. But. You could. You couldn't see anything from the viewpoint of of the man's bodyty and I just think that was actually done on purpose I think it's possible for the woman to see something and I know actually I know that because I've seen another female point of view Porn. Um, but the but there's not I think that the typical place you would look is your face not at your penis is my point.
  • [54:19] Keith: Huh.
  • [54:30] Keith: Fine. But the point is she can look at either of those things and wait I mean she could I guess lower her head and like sort of look down underneath. Yeah in doggie style but that would be it would be sort of it would be almost creepy of to.
  • [54:33] Mike: Okay, thanks.
  • [54:38] Mike: Yeah to see your ball slapping. Yeah, it's hot.
  • [54:48] Mike: You could give her a mirror then um, okay so so what else could she do besides that well during missionary. Yeah.
  • [54:49] Keith: Fuck someone while they were doing that. Yeah, you could you could in missionary I don't know she can use her hands to grab whatever she wants my my huge muscles you know brace herself on the headboard.
  • [55:00] Mike: Okay, that's hot. Okay, well she could brace herself during dogggie style right? She can't touch your body I think the point is she can't touch your body right? Yeah yeah I mean this thing of like you could if you were very clever about it. You could swap it you could tag out and have somebody else start.
  • [55:09] Keith: Um, yeah, or see it.
  • [55:20] Mike: Fucking orange you wouldn't even know I'm sure look I I'm actually I'm certain this isn't a rule 34 thing exactly I am certain that in the last ten years somewhere in a university a major university of the United States 2 frat guys have done that. Okay.
  • [55:21] Keith: Um, yes.
  • [55:34] Keith: Oh no question. Yes, yes, there's all kinds of that's not that's not what they call stealthing stealthing is when you remove the condom without consent but I'm sure various.
  • [55:38] Mike: And and without telling the woman. They just did it and she didn't she didn't catch on I In fact, I'm yeah right.
  • [55:51] Keith: Clandestine Behavior like that happens.
  • [55:53] Mike: I'm actually certain that this has happened in such a way. The woman never found out so all you women like if you had sex with a frat boy in the dog I think there's a it's not. It's not like a large percentage it might be. It's probably 1 in you know 100000 or something but that they swapped out in the middle and then swapped back.
  • [55:58] Keith: Jesus.
  • [56:10] Mike: I Think that this is a thing Frat boys would do right? and and I don't think you would know oh for sure. Well she's but she's more concerned about one like she she doesn't feel like she's an active participant right? I mean I think the main thing that a woman could do is to.
  • [56:10] Keith: Um, yeah, yet, you're just confirming this woman's concern.
  • [56:22] Keith: She's bored right.
  • [56:29] Mike: Touch herself. Ah maybe she she could wear an oculus quest she could catch up on her Netflix the oculus quest or the or the masturbation or both you will see in porn women who sort of try to caress. The guy's balls.
  • [56:29] Keith: Oh that's true. She could reach back with her. She could oh this that those are good suggestions. Let me see if anyone both of those are good.
  • [56:47] Mike: That's tricky though because he's thrusting So like if he there could be a little pain if she's grabbed his balls and then he pulls out and it just kind of yanks yanking down on your balls more than a certain amount is kind of uncomfortable little epididtimal torn or whatever.
  • [56:57] Keith: Um, this is.
  • [57:01] Keith: It's not great. Somebody suggests here, you can hold still at times and ask her to move on to you So instead of you doing the thrusting but that's less compelling for the for the man. Yeah.
  • [57:06] Mike: That's not the right word.
  • [57:09] Mike: Um, oh yeah, that sure sure Honestly, they don't women I don't think women like that This is the thing is I think I think she's misunderstanding her role here like the the experience she should be going for is just to get fucked. Yeah, it's like look like this is what's this is.
  • [57:18] Keith: Ah, 2
  • [57:25] Keith: She's receiving.
  • [57:28] Mike: This is what you you know? what? you're supposed to like this if you don't I don't know I mean it's It's complicated like I don't but this is this is you know on on some level. This is your function and that's kind of hot.
  • [57:30] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [57:37] Keith: Right? Yes, somebody so somebody else suggested a mirror somebody says as a woman doggie style is my favorite but a lot of times I lay my shoulder and face on the bed and reach between my legs to 2 different things. Yeah, so she's playing with herself.
  • [57:52] Mike: You know makes sense. Yeah well I mean it's in in an actual fact. Ah, for example in the um, what do they call that you know the prone bone or whatever I think that actually is a position in which the woman has or that general type of position.
  • [57:55] Keith: Um.
  • [58:01] Keith: Moving.
  • [58:09] Mike: Woman has the most access during P Iv to her clit of any position. It can actually be complicated a missionary because her hand can sort of interfere with the guy's body if she has fingernails he can like cut her she can cut his pubic bone or pubic area that's tricky whereas this way like yeah, she might.
  • [58:17] Keith: The fingernails problem is yeah.
  • [58:27] Mike: Nick his balls. But so you know it's It's more safe.
  • [58:29] Keith: Why why do women like having fingernails. Do you think there's any man that like vets women based on the quality of their fingernails.
  • [58:39] Mike: The argument that I've heard about this is a sociological argument that women's clothes and styling are specifically to accentuate the fact that they don't have to do any work. And this comes from like the nineteenth century and before when an aristocratic woman would clearly have to do no work and so they and so they wear clothing earrings all these things that that yeah accentuate that fact, whereas the ah poorer woman would have had to wear just you know everyday clothes that show that she does do work. And so then that became the style That's that's fashionable and so now ironically I should hasten to add that ironically in today's society and this is probably a consequence of the welfare state and so forth I think it's the poorer women that have those like fake males more than the richer women at this point so it's it's kind of a done an inversion there. Ah.
  • [59:23] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [59:30] Mike: But it's still I think that at at core That's where that comes from just like dresses or just all these kind of really things they would wear. No.
  • [59:34] Keith: Yeah, but but heels and dresses have value to men I think long nails are are the opposite they have like negative value to men.
  • [59:45] Mike: I think they but you have to ask yourself. Okay, you're going to say heels are compelling because of they make their calves shapely or something.
  • [59:50] Keith: Yeah to something about the the posture and something something dresses can accentuate a woman's curves make her look more attractive to the male gaze.
  • [59:55] Mike: And the dress What does that? do.
  • [01:00:03] Mike: Yeah I mean I think mostly stuff that mostly fashion choices by women are just to make them more kind of an object of art and fingernails fit into that I don't think it's um.
  • [01:00:12] Keith: Next necessarily sexual trying to be more sexually attractive to men.
  • [01:00:16] Mike: Right? It's complicated I mean ultimately look I mean it's complicated because okay I want to do this in such a way that we don't reveal. We could say 1 2 3 and say it together the most sexually compelling thing that a woman could wear in public is yo.
  • [01:00:34] Keith: Oh yeah, yeah, you know your obsession with yoga.
  • [01:00:36] Mike: Your yoga pants. No you agree though, right? I mean that's that's they could wear a bikini but I mean so I'm saying something they could actually wear to a store I think the yoga yoga outfits I think is probably the sort of structured pants and and and upper part of the outfit. Well I mean so those.
  • [01:00:44] Keith: I See. Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [01:00:54] Mike: Am I going with this. Oh yeah, it's the point is those serve a different function I mean there, you're just trying to sexually arouse people and that doesn't have this inheritance of the ah upper class or aristocracy that dresses and nails and and high heels have I mean nobody wears yoga pants with high heels.
  • [01:01:08] Keith: Right.
  • [01:01:13] Mike: But actually now they do wear high heels having sex and porn which is interesting but maybe that may be the right move for women is yoga pants and high heels. Ah yeah, that's come on actually.
  • [01:01:16] Keith: Right? right.
  • [01:01:22] Keith: I Feel like there has been a bit of this like casual chic athleisure I don't know if it's reached where it heals with it yet. I'm not sure.
  • [01:01:31] Mike: But she see I yeah to me I think the heels are from a different they they have a different origin. It's this aristocracy like I I do a work thing whereas Yoga pants are just I'm trying to give you an erection like your dick is gonna be hard. Yeah.
  • [01:01:38] Keith: Yeah. Um, yeah.
  • [01:01:49] Keith: All right? That'll do it and for episode 100 of your mileage may vary. Thanks for coming for the ride you can reach us at y m mvpod on Twitter or at y mmvpod at gmail.com you could give us feedback there. We paid $10 for any feedback. We.
  • [01:01:52] Mike: Yes.
  • [01:02:07] Keith: Receive You can also ask us questions there. Let us know if you want to keep the question privately between us or if we can use it on the show. Thanks for listening and we hope to catch you next week on your mileage may vary.