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Episode 101: Simp Daddies, FWB Aftercare, Aggressive Fantasies, Penis Smell Mystery

Team YMMV | 1-19-2023 | 1:02:00

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What would cause a woman to detect a sudden change in the odor of her boyfriend or husband's penis? Absent a significant hygiene change, there only seem to be a few options.

What would motivate a sugar daddy to give his sugar baby her entire annual allowance up front in January? Is he setting himself up for a problem? What about her? Seems like a pretty serious problem for the relationship in general. Will she dump him, or stay as she claims?

Are aggressive fantasies an indication that there's something wrong with your personality and/or sex drive? Are there limits to acceptable fantasy topics? And, why would a female FWB start asking for "aftercare"?

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/101/allowance

https://ymmv.me/101/lick

https://ymmv.me/101/fantasies

https://ymmv.me/101/grossed-out

https://ymmv.me/101/fwb

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith. We have the usual assortment of sexy topics to discuss today including blowjob pettiness auditing what's okay to even imagine about sex and a wife who is suddenly grossed out by her husband's penis. And Keith my co-host is Mike hi Mike um, been thinking about pubic hair lately. Do you do you grow? Do do you have pubic hair on the base of your shaft.
  • [00:19] Mike: Hello keith.
  • [00:27] Mike: Oh no. I Mean can you be just a little more specific about the I mean I'm not unwilling to answer the question I'm just not exactly sure what region you're talking about. So.
  • [00:43] Keith: Yeah, okay so I'm curious about you because you have I think less hair than me generally at least your your facial hair is less Growy than mine. Um.
  • [00:53] Mike: Ah, oh yeah.
  • [00:58] Keith: But yeah, like at the base of my penis on the underside of it just above my scrotum. There are some hair follicles on the shaft which I hadn't really noticed until I don't know ten years ago or something. Okay.
  • [01:10] Mike: I Think the answer is yes I think that I also experienced that I didn't know I mean do you want me to I can look I mean if you want to talk for a second I can double check. Let's see here.
  • [01:16] Keith: You don't want to check.
  • [01:21] Keith: I mean just keep yeah yeah, go for it. Ah.
  • [01:27] Mike: This is not like this is the opposite of what anybody wants because it's like ah I mean you know honestly kind of no actually so I did yeah I would say no and.
  • [01:37] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I think people have like vastly different pubic hair deployments right? like some people have hair on their ass cheeks. Some people don't some people have like really hairy assholes. Some people don't.
  • [01:51] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [01:54] Keith: Um, just think it's sort of strange that there's such variety there.
  • [01:58] Mike: Well I mean ah, it's probably just evolutionary the people like me that have less hair. Um also have higher iqs and are better at things and so on and so forth.
  • [02:06] Keith: Ah, right, right? right? right? Yeah, my skin is a little swarthy so clearly have inferior genetics.
  • [02:12] Mike: They didn't say anything about that Jesus I just said I was just talking about hair I want to be very clear I'm not don't don't talk to Michael Richards me here.
  • [02:24] Keith: Ah, right? Um, Okay, yeah, well the the context I was thinking about this is ah if a woman uses a razor to shave her vagina shave her. That shave her pubic area. Ah, it's hard to get everywhere right? like there. There can be some missed follicles. You know they would have to like pull their labia back and like you know, try and get like right at the edge where the hair stops growing.
  • [02:45] Mike: Yeah.
  • [02:56] Mike: It's not just there I mean. Ah, for example I've been um for the last like two months participating maybe more actually participating in master's swim which is this thing where you wake up at an ungodly hour like 5 Well, you don't mind that. But for most people it's irritating to get up at five thirty in the morning and go to a swimming pool and it's.
  • [03:09] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah.
  • [03:12] Mike: In California it's been raining and freezing so you know you're jumping in when it's the waters actually feels warm anyway, ah I'm not um, the fastest I'm not the slowest but I'm sort of in the middle somewhere and there are women in my lane. Um, and so yeah, yeah, so I um.
  • [03:16] Keith: Such dedication.
  • [03:25] Keith: Okay I see where this is going.
  • [03:31] Mike: Ah, you typically try to. There's actually like kind of a feel you get for. It's not that interesting but keeping your hands kind of in the where you can feel the kicking of the person in front of you but you can get a sense of when it's going to. You're going to hit their foot and then if you stop feeling the kicking you know like.
  • [03:41] Keith: Yep.
  • [03:47] Mike: You You're starting to fatigue out and that's that's a good sign and you know tells you something anyway, not infrequently I wind up behind a woman and you know there are situations while you're swimming particularly if you're doing say breast Stroke where you're looking forward not down and you yeah I mean are pretty much just staring at the way women.
  • [03:48] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [04:04] Keith: Um, yes, yep.
  • [04:07] Mike: But bathing suits are you're just staring at their crotch area. Um a man's bathing suit even a speedo is covers more because they typically have some some amount of shorts kind of feel to them whereas the woman's is just kind of a strap going up her crotch right? I mean that's just the way these things are designed and um.
  • [04:17] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [04:22] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [04:24] Mike: I Have not detected any of this but I have thought um probably every time I do this swim thing I think and I see a woman in that situation I think to myself gosh like she has to yeah do I mean probably do a significant amount of grooming carefully just to make it to that swimsuit ah is not exposing pubic hair like that's what.
  • [04:37] Keith: Yes, yeah I think keeping your bikini line. Nice and clean is a huge hassle and you know some people get razor bumps and stuff right? So you know.
  • [04:43] Mike: Ah, yeah, a lot of work actually.
  • [04:51] Mike: Yeah I mean in these like the yeah and these these swimsuits I mean they they're they are pretty small. They've they're reduced the amount of skin they cover I think years.
  • [05:03] Keith: Yeah, even ah, even a speedo swimsuit made for lap swimming is still fairly immodest compared to you know something from thirty years ago or something.
  • [05:13] Mike: Right? And so they and so there's really like ah a mental I mean I think women generally have to have a mental picture of where that line is when they're in the shower or whatever shaving and um.
  • [05:23] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [05:28] Mike: Yeah, and it's difficult I'm sure it's difficult to get everything. But I think you're talking more about like the inner areas where bathing suit would cover it. Well maybe both I don't know.
  • [05:33] Keith: Sure I mean it's just a chore like I think a lot of female like whatever, whatever for whatever reason the zeitgeist is currently to be. You know as Hairless as possible. Although there are some young women who are. Bringing back Armpit hair. But that's that that's like a counter trendnd I think I think you're you're actually more likely to see a woman with armpit hair and a wax Posey than you are to see the opposite.
  • [05:53] Mike: Well I don't think any.
  • [06:03] Mike: Oh sure, That's right, Let me ask you this. This is a little tangentially related. Do you ever feel weird or self-conscious or maybe not self-conscious or wrong word but find it kind of odd to complement a woman underl looks and the reason why I yeah because it's it's kind of a pretty well they seem to like it.
  • [06:14] Keith: Um, yes.
  • [06:21] Keith: I Strongly agree I Thought yeah you're basically conceding that one of the things that you're seeing a value in them is the way they look which is like the opposite of feminism.
  • [06:21] Mike: But it's a pretty anti-feminist thing to do ultimately right.
  • [06:35] Mike: Right? And I mean now to 1 extent you I mean there are 2 ways that complement works 1 is you're just complimenting them on essentially genetic traits that they got when they were born. Okay I mean yeah, the second one is things they do and that could be exercise but a lot of it for a woman is this kind of grooming stuff.
  • [06:43] Keith: Um, sure sure.
  • [06:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [06:55] Mike: And so there is a significant positive payoff they get I mean for a man if you were let's say cyclist or for swimming I think men do also shave ah to I I'm not sure it actually improves their times I think we've discussed this before and it does almost nothing ah but okay, like yeah a man can do that. But the payoff is that is is is.
  • [07:07] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [07:15] Mike: Some very minor athletic performance payoff. But for women, there's like actually a pretty good payoff. They get for this grooming behavior right? So It's not, you're saying it's kind of annoying but on the other hand. Um, yeah I mean it's like it would be like if you um. People complimented you every time you shaved your face really well or something so there's you know it's not that bad because they're getting they're they're getting like a positive payoff from it and it's something that intrinsically. They don't mind or even can be proud of being complimented for even though that's sort of an anti-feminist thing to have happen right.
  • [07:48] Keith: Um, yeah yeah I suppose I mean there's another aspect which is if they are groomed in a certain way. The first time you see them naked. It is a tell that they were planning on getting naked.
  • [08:05] Mike: Oh sure. Yes, well, it's either either that or that they're always groomed that way isn't there like an Ed Sheeran song that's like you looked wonderful tonight or something you I don't know I always say the song that's sort of a perfect you looked curf you looked.
  • [08:07] Keith: All along.
  • [08:24] Mike: You look perfect tonight just different from being perfect. It's just kind but it's a funny lyric to me because yeah, yeah, ah you heard it darling you look perfect tonight because now if you listen to the entire lyric song I don't really like Ed Sheeran actually I don't like him at all. But I've been forced to listen to this song a number of times and.
  • [08:25] Keith: Okay, what a.
  • [08:32] Keith: Ah, oh I see.
  • [08:37] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [08:44] Mike: Ah, if you listen to the lyric. It's because she's self-conscious about the way she looks but still, it's interesting that like that it's a strange thing to say to someone. Yeah, it's like ah it's like ah are you having a good time honey and you say you look perfect tonight like it sort of suggests. There's something else. That's a problem.
  • [08:46] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, the specific phraseology. Yeah.
  • [08:59] Keith: Right? right? right? No, it's it's it's similar to ah you know that stupid Mariah Carey Christmas song and it starts with she says something like I don't want a lot for Christmas and then.
  • [09:03] Mike: You look perfect. But ah, you're retarded. You're an idiot.
  • [09:16] Keith: She goes on to say only went for Christmas is you? It's like this. It's actually sort of a sick burn. Ah all right? Let's move on to this ah sugar lifestyle forum post you sent me I haven't I haven't read it and.
  • [09:18] Mike: Right? right? yes.
  • [09:31] Mike: Yeah, it's the woman who has she's extolling the virtues of her sugar day. There's a lot of this forum I Mean we we send each other links from it somewhat frequently because it has a lot of delusion. A lot of confusion in this in this form.
  • [09:43] Keith: Yeah, yeah, on both the male and female sides.
  • [09:50] Mike: Both sides see there's no question and the female side tends. So the male side is often men just being overly generous or and it's not just actually overly generous but also misunderstanding the nature of the relationship or thinking in these very romantic ways about the relationship. That's frankly, kind of sickening. Often maybe that's just my my personality. Okay, good and then but this one is a woman who's super excited because the guy her sugar daddy gave her her entire year's allowance up front I mean we're in the month of january
  • [10:10] Keith: No, that's that's ah, that's a proper read.
  • [10:23] Keith: Yeah.
  • [10:24] Mike: And so she's saying what a wonderful guy and I isn't it I mean you're looking at it isn't it just sort of like a laundry list of how awesome this guy is basically.
  • [10:29] Keith: I mean I'm sort of looking forward to reading this. The 1 thing that strikes out sticks out. It comes at the end. He's sixty eight years old and she's she's 28 all right? I'm just going to read this. It's a bit lengthy so bear with us here.
  • [10:43] Mike: Um, all right.
  • [10:47] Keith: Don't know how I got here. But after going through an earth shaking heartbreak I started sugaring again in August again in October I met by SSpf which means ah what does that mean sugar boyfriend right? Yeah yeah, no, no, it's boyfriend. Ah.
  • [10:52] Mike: Pleasant. Sugar boyfriend as yeah I Almost my first thought was sugar. Best friend and I thought well that's a weird concept. Yeah.
  • [11:07] Keith: He's been so kind and caring and sweet. He just gave me a generous allowance every time I came over for ppm which means pay per meet. We never discussed any hard details of an arrangement until this past Saturday he recently retired put most of it away but budgeted a certain amount for a certain number of years.
  • [11:13] Mike: Um, no yes.
  • [11:25] Keith: He also did not have my ppm out waiting like it usually was I wanted to try and budget too. So I breached the subject breached the subject of arrangement details. He was a little uncomfortable and the conversation was definitely uncomfortable. But Jesus Christ my sugar boyfriend decided the best way for us to proceed is if he gives me my allowance upfront for the entire year.
  • [11:31] Mike: Brooch town.
  • [11:44] Keith: Got the first portion of it Saturday eleven times my ppm in hand in one night holy shit I'm still finding it hard to believe this is happening it honestly changes my life already I'm sure this is wildly ridiculous situation for a sugar relationship and I couldn't find any posts about an upfront yearly allowance. So I had to document that I am receiving my allowance yearly. Most men think the sugar baby would leave most sugar babies probably would I'm not going anywhere. No one has ever cooked for me before and this man has cooked for me from scratch multiple times and remembers my dietary constrats is a phenomenal mentor and has a big old dick that still works. Ok emoji thumbs up emoji.
  • [12:20] Mike: Jesus that works.
  • [12:23] Keith: It's possible to receive a yearly allowance but I sure shit did not ask for it and I've come to tell I've come to telling him I love you plenty of times before this past weekend safe to say I'm a lucky baby. We have a 60 year old male 28 year old female dynamic I spend a weekend at his place once or twice a month.
  • [12:32] Mike: See.
  • [12:42] Keith: Been on a couple little road trips one overnight trip and have 2 larger trips with airfare scheduled I Can't believe someone with airfare scheduled man Sorry I promise I wasn't going to prociferate over grammar stuff I Can't believe someone has been so kind to me. They think that I'm worth spending like this. He always says he wishes Me. We met a long time ago. Like physically impossible L O L like both in our thirty s and fuck I Wish we did too I think I love him fake you universe.. Thank you guys for reading good luck and if I don't see you good afternoon good morning and good night. Ah.
  • [13:16] Mike: That's a you know what? that is right? That's a I don't like movies. But that's a quote from the Truman show I don't like movies I also hate animals.
  • [13:23] Keith: Oh I know I know Edward at Edward Murrow famously signed off his broadcasts good night and good luck. Okay, all right? Well um, this feels a little.
  • [13:29] Mike: Yeah, that's different. Yeah.
  • [13:40] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [13:40] Keith: I Don't know if Nausea think's the right word I don't like what's going on here. Why did he do that.
  • [13:47] Mike: Like well I I hadn't read it as carefully I mean it was interesting to because I had I think I'd skimmed it before and went down to the comments. 1 thing I didn't catch before was that they're only meeting up a couple times a month. Ah so I guess this dick doesn't work that well.
  • [13:50] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [14:01] Keith: Yeah.
  • [14:04] Mike: Um, or he's and also there's some implication here that he's a little financially constrained because he like set aside things from his retirement but setting that so I so I suspect it's so the numbers may not be large here but you know they're large there. There's something. She's excited about it. Um, what's going on I mean he.
  • [14:11] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [14:17] Keith: Right.
  • [14:22] Mike: Yeah, he's he's being optimistic and hopeful. Um, but yeah you want me, you give my take on this first or do you want to? Okay so this may just be because I've watched too much of ah the Jerry Springer show and or judge Judy but I know ah that.
  • [14:31] Keith: I'm ready. Yeah, hit me hit us.
  • [14:42] Mike: The way these situations go is that even though she has the the best of intentions She just is going to run out of money and so and in here's here's what the the beautiful part of this is for me is that this ah thing that she believes right now. This attitude she has toward him that I think she believes and it's It's a genuine attitude.
  • [14:47] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [15:00] Keith: She loves him.
  • [15:01] Mike: Ah, feeling right? is going to change and I think it's going to change. Ah I predict that by like say this November well they they won't be talking by them but say this summer she's going to be angry with him because he's so stingy because she will go through the money and then she will slowly have like this sort of subconscious.
  • [15:13] Keith: Um, right.
  • [15:22] Mike: Attitude shift over to like fuck this guy show. Yeah so it's he's making a terrible decision here. He's It's actually he's actually ah hurting her. He shouldn't do this like she will She will mismanage this and as night turns the day like she will wind up blowing this up because of that.
  • [15:23] Keith: Yeah.
  • [15:41] Mike: Is my take.
  • [15:41] Keith: Let's say the total amount of money he's going to give her over the course of the year is fifty grand I know but let's say it is ah should he I mean basically I think you want some sort of like.
  • [15:45] Mike: They can't be that much but let's say.
  • [15:57] Keith: Increasing amount you're giving like he could tell her I'm going to give you x the first month two x the second month three x the fourth month Four X the fifth month ah you know and right like this thing that he's done is he's.
  • [16:06] Mike: Okay, oh I see what you're saying yeah sure think.
  • [16:15] Keith: Basically paid for nebulous services that aren't contractually agreed upon entirely upfront in a way that like and and it's not just the money like they're they're not. There's no like actual contract. So so it's not even clear what the expectations on both sides are but the 1 thing that you can be sure.
  • [16:28] Mike: Oh sure.
  • [16:34] Keith: Is that she's going to wonder what else she can get because he's given everything upfront right? And so like it's impossible for her not to.
  • [16:45] Mike: Yeah I don't I don't think it has to be that sort of ah nefarious isnt the right word but but sort of calculating on her apart I actually think that even a person that's totally well-intentioned even taking her at her word I don't think that she can manage this situation psychologically and I think the story arc of this. Is almost certain to be ah, she's really she she feels great toward him now and she will hate him. She will actually never talk to him again, starting in like September and then sometime in the meet it middle. There. She will actually be very angry with him and it's because yeah.
  • [17:08] Keith: Um, right? But ok so we we can quibble about like the specifics of why this is a mistake but why would he do this.
  • [17:18] Mike: Um, well because he's thinking oh this will lock her down like I found my soulmate or whatever and he's thinking oh I'm going to do this and the thing that's funny. The thing I think that's funny about it is even if like let's say that's true. Let's say that like they really are super compatible and it is kind of sad that they're 40 years different in age and they have like they just.
  • [17:27] Keith: Oh my gosh.
  • [17:38] Mike: Yeah, they just have this connection I mean that's a thing that that that happens that people just yeah people connect in ah in an unusual way. Maybe there's something about their personalities or childhood or something but but ah even it's okay if he came to me as the expert I am on amorous relationships.
  • [17:46] Keith: Fine.
  • [17:58] Mike: I would say to him. Do definitely do not do this. You should. You're actually being unkind to her and the relationship you're going to actually make her life worse. It would be like if you if you hired somebody just for a job and you had the choice between and and let's say they had the choice between getting paid everything upfront at the beginning of the year
  • [17:58] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [18:16] Mike: Or getting the money monthly setting aside the fact that they could be Yes, they could be ah, a sharpie and like take the money and then run and get another job. Let's say they couldn't do that or something like people that actually is worse for them like people think oh this will be better for me. It's actually worse for you because you will mismanage the situation you will wind up at odds with this person that actually is a benefactor.
  • [18:23] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yes, yes.
  • [18:35] Mike: And you will wind up sad and so what he's actually done is he's actually like destroyed this relationship and this woman and like it's just this. He's basically um until I talk about the the story I had Gpt right? last week about ah the man putting the grenade up the woman's vagina.
  • [18:53] Keith: Ah, it's not. It's it's not ringing a bell So presumably no.
  • [18:53] Mike: And don't remember if I did I had to write a story. Yeah I had I had I had to write a story where a woman is tied to a bed a man comes in the room puts a grenade in a vagina and runs away and then I had to rewrite it. So as the as the grenade is about to explode. She has an orgasm and so it's actually quite a good story that maybe I'll read on on the air some time.
  • [19:04] Keith: Um, ah.
  • [19:12] Mike: Ah, because it was yeah it was a mixture of like this horror movie and romance novel. But ah, that's what this guy's done is he's put a figurative grenade up her vagina.
  • [19:13] Keith: Right.
  • [19:20] Keith: Yeah, yeah, he's guaranteeing trouble down the road.
  • [19:24] Mike: Yes, and he could have just said look like I he could have done. Yeah, right? It's it's equivalent of like giving your your kid drops out of college and you give them their college fund. It's like don't do that like parcel it out.
  • [19:35] Keith: Um, is this it is this elder abuse.
  • [19:40] Mike: Kick always of gift.
  • [19:42] Keith: Yeah, but I mean that's what people do they groom old people because they're sort of desperate and they get them to like make financial mistakes. Okay.
  • [19:45] Mike: Um, it's awesome I don't think I think generally as long as your dick still works and you're your're nutting in or on the woman that nothing can be construed as elder abuse I don't I don't think so I like I like the idea I know it's like Anna Nicole Smith right
  • [19:58] Keith: What if he was 88 right
  • [20:05] Mike: Yeah, it's It's a really good question and and I I would not surprise me I don't I'm not familiar with the court case. This is around the will of the guy who was her husband that I don't remember his name. Ah but I would the people who were disinherited or that she took the money you know that she got the money and said I'm sure they argued things like that. But that's what I would do.
  • [20:13] Keith: Yeah, me, neither? yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [20:24] Mike: If I were standing to inherit like a billion dollars and it went away because of and Nicole Smith
  • [20:25] Keith: Yeah I mean if I had a billion dollars and I knew I had 3 years to live I might blow it on you know some pretty young thing. Why not.
  • [20:33] Mike: Um, yeah I saw an article I saw an article recently actually like yesterday that I thought was a very nice article about a man who was suicidal and he called a suicide hotline and they you know they were talking to him and.
  • [20:44] Keith: Ah.
  • [20:50] Mike: The the reason he was suicidal was he just didn't have female companionship and the person said hey why don't you just take some money and go down to Mexico and fuck a bunch of prostitutes and the guy said okay I'll do that and it turned his life around.
  • [20:58] Keith: A half.
  • [21:06] Mike: Even the the article was all about how like he's like yeah I now have like a reason to live like this is just what I was missing.
  • [21:12] Keith: They've did they've discussed ah something more formal than that in the Netherlands right? like having sex therapists available for everybody at any time.
  • [21:18] Mike: The only thing I know about that is I know that in Japan they have sex therapists available for men who have illnesses that prevent themselves from masturbating like say cerebral palsy or something and I've actually seen a video I watched it so you don't have to of a woman masturbating a man.
  • [21:30] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [21:37] Mike: Who like was very unable to control his body. Yeah yeah, it was very professional and ah I mean she was.
  • [21:40] Keith: And what was her uniform. She's just a nursing. Yeah yeah, it's mechanical. Yeah.
  • [21:50] Mike: She was actually I would say she was a little better than that She was genuinely nice to the guy I think she felt like she was doing a real service there I don't know like but I'm not sure he could speak. He was pretty he was. He's not doing. He wasn't having a great time but he did seem to enjoy the orgasm. So.
  • [21:55] Keith: Do they like talk about the weather or what do they.
  • [22:08] Keith: Yeah, yeah, but all right, let's ah, let's move on here. Um, this person wonders is it petty if I refuse to give him a blowjob because he won't lick my clit he refuses to even lick my clit I told him he doesn't even need to stick his tongue in.
  • [22:09] Mike: You know.
  • [22:26] Keith: Going to stop giving him blowjobs is that petty and mean of me it worried I'm worried it might backfire. Yeah, that's weird that the sticking your tongue in the vagina. It's not really what women want I mean it's like a part I have but like I think what they want is your tongue.
  • [22:26] Mike: Stick his tongue in.
  • [22:37] Mike: Really, you've never you've never I mean is it like.
  • [22:45] Keith: On their clip.
  • [22:45] Mike: Um, sure. But maybe it like there's some sort of extra mental stimulation I don't think it physically adds much but mentally, it's sort of exciting. Yeah, okay.
  • [22:50] Keith: Oh sure, Sure sure Yeah I'm not not yeah I mean I've done it many many many times but like she's not making a big sacrifice by saying you don't need to stick it. You don't need to stick your tongue.
  • [23:03] Mike: So when you do that? What's your mentality so you're you're on, you're on the clit doing let's say the ah Kivin Technique you're probably not doing the Kevin Technique the Kevin Technique is going. It's a really good one. It's where you turn your head ° to the the sort of slit of her vulva and you.
  • [23:10] Keith: Um, forget forget what? the Kevin Technique was oh right? right? right? You're perpendicular.
  • [23:20] Mike: Lick So that way the up down. Yeah the updown licking with your and and if actually if you watch Lesbian porn like they very often do that like it's that yeah, it's in and men don't do it sort of funny. Um anyway, so youre let's say not givenvin because then weve got this perpendicularicularity that's difficult. So let's just say your classic technique. Okay, so.
  • [23:26] Keith: Ah, ah yeah.
  • [23:39] Mike: You start migrating down you pass the arera which you may or may not actually be able to feel but and then you what you stick your tongue as far in as you can that what your move is you just said you've done it many many times.
  • [23:40] Keith: The.
  • [23:48] Keith: No, this is the thing that I said I don't do Well I mean it happens but I don't have like a specific I don't have like a specific thing I'm you know waiting to deploy.
  • [23:56] Mike: Okay, well I'm trying to understand.
  • [24:02] Mike: Oh yeah, well why do you do it at all and I mean is there I figured there was some kind of a move you had.
  • [24:05] Keith: Oh oh I don't know I don't know it's like a parlor trick or maybe I want to do it or something you know like I get I get really up in there man I get I get all that flavor.
  • [24:16] Mike: Okay, so you want to get and you and do you try to do you. You get it as deep as you can kind of and it's probably for just a couple of seconds imagine back I'm sure this is.
  • [24:25] Keith: Guess I don't know I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to imagine back? Yeah I mean you can't really, you can't really, you can't pump your tongue like you can pump your your cock.
  • [24:38] Mike: So you don't try that you I think you could I think I can do that. Well yeah, that's true, Well Okay, so your your your tongue must be pretty short then interesting.
  • [24:42] Keith: I Don't think I could get the same velocity and I certainly can't get the same depth.
  • [24:53] Keith: Ah, my my tug is is shorter than than my penis.
  • [24:58] Mike: Um, so okay, so yeah I think that's I think that's sort of common so you do is is it is it? Yeah I mean do you ever like ah suck the 2 labia into your mouth and go.
  • [25:12] Keith: Ah, you would have to do that sort of near the top I guess where they come together I guess you could push them together and then create some suction. Yeah.
  • [25:16] Mike: No, you can I mean they well you can sort of I mean well I guess it depends on whether we're talking in or out or I'm talking in or I guess somebody who has some amount of material there to work with all right? all right? okay.
  • [25:29] Keith: I don't I don't think that's part of my normal pattern.
  • [25:35] Mike: Um, yeah, so okay so I forgot what the question the person had was.
  • [25:39] Keith: How is it petty if she refuses to give him a blow job because he won't lick her clip.
  • [25:45] Mike: That sounds right I mean I don't know it's It's well I mean it suggests that he has. He's not overcoming his disgust of her body properly thus she's it's There's probably a larger issue at play here.
  • [26:00] Keith: Wool it. It also suggests that she doesn't really want to give him blowjob. She's just doing it obligatorily which of course is something that I've argued that many women are doing like like she's viewing it. Ah, it's unclear because this thing.
  • [26:08] Mike: Well I mean the problem with that argument.
  • [26:17] Keith: Only a few sentences but it's unclear if the reason why she doesn't want to give them a blowjob is she's she's going to make this she loves giving blowjobs but she's going to sacrifice that because she thinks that he loves it even more So. There's like a positive sum for her if she stops giving him. A positive sum of pettiness if she doesn't give a blowjob or she doesn't really like giving a blowjob. She's only doing it as some sort of Reciprocity Quid pro quo thing where she the only reason she gives him blowjobs is so that he'll go down on her and it's not clear which which is the situation here.
  • [26:49] Mike: I Yeah I think that's right I Think the only point I Want to add here is that when you say this is an important point to me that I want to make when you say that the woman is giving a blow out of obligation I think you're neglecting the reality. In most obligations. A weird word but I'll just stick with it that in many many cases. They're just having sex with you out of obligation too. If and I put it I would put like a big asterisk next to the world obligation because it's that the definition of that word matters a lot but like the feeling.
  • [27:23] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [27:26] Mike: Feeling that you're worried about them having for you blowing. You isn't that different than the feeling for the whole activity like look I mean that's it's not their primary goal in in in dating you? oh.
  • [27:32] Keith: Oh man like this is like this is like the opposite of the therapy I need like I need therapy to make me more okay with receiving blowjobs I don't need therapy to extend my not okayness of receiving blowjobs to also feeling. Uncomfortable with having sex I understand what you're saying I I I hear you.
  • [27:54] Mike: Well I mean I just well I mean there's 2 ways that could go right? I mean it could yeah it doesn't have to blanket your whole experience. You could instead just ah, reach some sort of homeostasis with the reality that like the way men and women look at this thing is pretty different and so it's yeah they don't they just don't.
  • [28:06] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [28:10] Mike: They don't care in the way you do about what's happening and so it's like oh I have do that now Now if it was analingus or something like that. Yeah I mean so if this question was transmuted into ah I don't I'm going to stop himing blows because he won't give me analingus.
  • [28:24] Keith: Yeah.
  • [28:25] Mike: Or or or vice versa. Whatever it is well now you're in some kind of Kink territory. But as long as the things are kind of normal things that are being asked for like they just don't care that much like it's not. It's yeah and and and then it's more. Yeah.
  • [28:34] Keith: What percentage what percentage of Non North american or european relationships. Do you think have regular fallatio versus regular. What is it cunning Linus kind of would.
  • [28:51] Mike: Cu Ofingus there's no G Yeah you mean Non- West Nonwestern European You you mean more traditional kind of ah right? It's toward the end. Yeah you mean more traditional societies. Not like Western European Not oh I think Cunalingus is incredibly low.
  • [28:53] Keith: Kind of linguous right? There is. It's just not where I think it is.
  • [29:01] Keith: Um, yes.
  • [29:07] Keith: Okay, do you think it's like 5 to one have both and sorry 5 have just volatio and one has both 10 Yeah okay I I agree that you were you were.
  • [29:08] Mike: And.
  • [29:16] Mike: I Think it's I think it's more than that I think it's yeah, like more than ten like.
  • [29:24] Keith: Making some sort of argument about what's normal I mean I guess it is normal. It's it's certainly normally expected in the United States fallacio
  • [29:30] Mike: Oh you mean kind oflingus versus versus full yeah or anallingus or any these sorts of things that that wasn't the point I was making the point I was making is that the that the woman is relatively indifferent between the 2 activity or the multiple activities here. Ah your thought is oh.
  • [29:43] Keith: I say.
  • [29:47] Mike: Ah, Pi V is so much better for her it. She just doesn't care that much I mean sure they like you know they're mostly they like intimacy right? and so it's these things are all kind of intimate now if you want them to do something That's actually actively gross. You think giving a blow is actively gross which they don't because they're female and they.
  • [30:02] Keith: Yeah, well and during Arousal their Disgust is suppressed.
  • [30:04] Mike: The male body's not as gross to them as it is to you. but yeah sure sure ah but yeah I mean I so I mean the the thing the the real thing that I yeah I mean first of all, this guy is not that attracted to this woman probably and secondly ah she's not doing it probably because. She has this huge sex drive and once oral notwithstanding some of the people we've dealt with on this show who do have women who do have high sex drives we but I think those are so self-selected yes I'm thinking of you young lady who's listening um, but ah, the um, the.
  • [30:28] Keith: Um, right, right? right.
  • [30:41] Mike: Woman will be doing This is like a tip for tap move like ah well I'm just trying to and you know I just want to like get him back and it's like okay yeah, and it's not. It's not redressing the real issue is here which is that he's He's not interested in her body as much as she wants him to be I think that by the way I think that men.
  • [30:47] Keith: Yeah, but that seems pretty unhealthy.
  • [31:01] Mike: When you ask that thing about the 10 to 1 in like other countries. Ah yeah I don't think that's because the guys are like turned off by the woman or something I think it's just like not they just it's just not like part of their culture. They don't care as much. You know it's not they're not and and oh and also like female orgasm I think is combo you know.
  • [31:02] Keith: Yeah.
  • [31:13] Keith: Um I think it's.
  • [31:18] Mike: There are places. There's a lot of places where Femo orgasm virtually never happens because they're just not educated and stuff.
  • [31:20] Keith: Yeah, but I mean there's I I I guess Brazil is considered first world and in some circles. There's I mean I know in Brazil that giving a girl oral is considered pretty submissive and sort of frowned. Upon maybe that's changing.
  • [31:32] Mike: Okay, yeah, there could be I don't know though like it's you know people people are still doing it. They just don't talk about it. Yeah.
  • [31:39] Keith: Information about that is a bit old. Yeah um, okay, let's jump around here. So this person talked about she says my husband's penis is suddenly grossing me out I enjoy giving my spouse blowjobs a lot He's a very clean man and his penis is always clean and never smelly or anything like that. Weird things to say if she really enjoys it anyway. I was giving him a blowjob the other night and the natural smell of it started grossing me out. This is how it always has smelled and never bothered me before I was barely able to give the blowjob over how much he was grossing me out even now while typing this out and thinking about the smell and taste of his penis is disgusting to me. Didn't smell or taste any different and it's never bothered me before but it gross me out a lot out of nowhere has this happened to anyone else does anyone know what would cause this sudden disgust update I am not pregnant. So basically everyone said you might be everybody in the comment said she might be pregnant.
  • [32:27] Mike: What oh I see this makes me think of an incident yesterday during Master's Swimming so I I had to I got there at five forty five or whatever and I was getting my speedo on and my goggles and my blah blah blah and I was. So I always go in the shower beforehand and I rinse off and I actually like soap my asshole. Yes I'm trying to be I actually do that before I get in the pool I think it's polite. So this dude I won't say his name because he might actually listen and I might be able to triangulate something here, but he's I'll call him John.
  • [32:51] Keith: Nice polite. Yeah.
  • [33:01] Keith: Yeah, okay.
  • [33:05] Mike: So John well okay, he's it he so I he's in the stall of the toilet I don't exactly know what happens and there he flushes and then he just goes straight to the pool and John swims in my lane and so and this is relevant to this question because I the whole time like I actually like. I had to stop I to actively stop thinking about it because it was starting to make me nauseous I'm like fuck I am ah I have John's turds all around me and this's not really right because of the dilution of the pool I know that but I was actually having trouble so this could be some sort of like psychological focusing thing like there's a smell and she just got kind of anchored on it.
  • [33:28] Keith: Um, right right.
  • [33:42] Mike: You know like I did with John I mean I yeah you you have to actually make yourself stop thinking about it for a few minutes because there is I mean I think there is like I've noticed before even though I take lots of showers and stuff like yeah there can be something going on there right.
  • [33:43] Keith: Hmm.
  • [33:59] Keith: I Mean she she goes. Yeah I mean she goes to like great length to say that it didn't smell or taste any different and it's never bothered me before now. Maybe she's wrong and.
  • [34:01] Mike: I Oh sorry I can't just directly spell touch my I'll touch my penis my fingers and smell my finger. It's not I'm not yeah.
  • [34:19] Keith: It was much stronger than normal but she doesn't seem to think it is.
  • [34:22] Mike: Um, maybe he was did did anybody in the comments suggest that maybe he start he was fucking another chick because that's like the thing I was thinking.
  • [34:29] Keith: Yeah I mean that implies that it smells differently.
  • [34:32] Mike: Um, it seemed I like it seems possible that women could there could be a dapp adaptive for women to be able to smell that shit right? a woman. Yeah, she's like wait your dick smells wrong. Oh that's that's what this is actually now I'm starting to convince myself. That's what's going on here.
  • [34:42] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [34:49] Mike: He fucked some other chick and she's smelling that and she's like Oo because that's what that makes sense right? that makes sense to me total sense that a woman would have that ability I Wonder if anybody's researched this where you're like but it it stays it stays you know that.
  • [34:58] Keith: I mean it's pretty sociopathic to not shower after a after cheating on your wife it does linger I feel like I feel like you can get most of it with 1 shower. But i.
  • [35:09] Mike: Yeah, well I mean think about this like the like some amount of that fluid is going to get jammed up your urethra at a minimum and yeah, you can pee but it's not all going to come out and so then it's going to repopulate the area like I think you have some period of time there and like that.
  • [35:15] Keith: And a blind smell test I think I might still be able to tell.
  • [35:24] Keith: Yeah, ah.
  • [35:29] Mike: That strikes me as absolutely something A woman's nose should be attuned to and then jumps all over that this is this is I think this is what she's not pregnant. Somebody else is getting impregnated. Yeah yeah, that's what it is.
  • [35:41] Keith: Um, that's I Okay I don't think that's what it is but I like that So let's move on.
  • [35:47] Mike: Do you think and I also don't think I don't know you we've talked about before that you you suspect that you have had sex with a woman when that woman had sex with another man less than forty Twenty four hours beforehand like you suspect that you can't be sure.
  • [36:03] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [36:05] Mike: But you don't have any such experience of like kind of getting a whiff or a weird thing and and and there's really no reason why a man? Well maybe a man would care because he cares which person fathered the kids but a woman would really care right? like prehistorically because it's like she wants to know if her man's out there like fucking other chicks.
  • [36:08] Keith: Are.
  • [36:23] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah I don't I've definitely not been able to tell through some sort of physical evidence. Well I mean in high school My first ever girlfriend I went over to her house. Once.
  • [36:25] Mike: It's important. So yeah, like yeah.
  • [36:32] Mike: I'm right? Yeah well.
  • [36:41] Keith: And she had like all these markings on her neck and they were hickeys but they were like so aggressive. It looked like bruising and I would I was like I think I was 16 and I didn't really know what it was I was like really concerned for I was like oh my gosh. Are you? okay.
  • [36:42] Mike: Yes.
  • [36:48] Mike: Yeah.
  • [36:57] Mike: Well wait were they from you? Oh oh, which was she honest about it or.
  • [37:00] Keith: No, they were not yeah Brutal. It's the only It's the only only time to my knowledge that I've been that I've been cheated on. Yeah, she was honest about it but it was sort of comical because she just assumed that the physical evidence was so obvious that like immediately it would be like oh my God I can't believe you've done this. But my reaction was like oh my God are you? Okay, what happened like right like I didn't she thought that like the chick was up and that ah you know there was no way to ah to hide it anymore. But my super naive and young reaction was yeah.
  • [37:18] Mike: I Was someone choking you out.
  • [37:35] Keith: So she had to like sort of walk me to it which must have been sort of painful.
  • [37:37] Mike: Um, you know how? like ah in um, in spy movies or whatever like police movies and also I think this is a thing with clothing I know that you're an amateur shoplifter of the world. So you might know about this and I think we did had to didn't we have to cut off 1 of those tags 1 time off of something as a.
  • [37:53] Keith: Yes, yeah.
  • [37:57] Mike: Yes, we just use like a wire cutter but ah so typically those things when I'm saying those things I mean the the things that set off the alarm when you try to steal something as we do and um, it's we do for the thrill. Not we got the cash. It's just for the thrill. Yeah.
  • [38:06] Keith: Yeah, hypothetically if if that happened it was because that shop had wronged me for much greater than the value of the item. Definitely yeah.
  • [38:17] Mike: Oh for sure. Yeah, it's always how it is. This shops are constantly wronging me. Ah, so but they they they put a bunch of ink comes out of them sometimes that covers the garment or whatever the thing you've taken is um I was thinking in my head. It would be interesting if like women's if women evolved the ability to be like a squid.
  • [38:25] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [38:35] Mike: Or a skunk I guess but a squid more to have some ink come out of their vagina when they orgasm or when you orgasm or something so then you would be marked. It would just make society very different. Yeah, if and it was just a marking that lasted like a week it'd be like fuck that that would be a very effective way to to do this? yes.
  • [38:41] Keith: For a while.
  • [38:48] Keith: Um, Wow Yeah, that would be very adaptive.
  • [38:52] Mike: Well maybe well maybe the odor is even better because like if only other women can smell it and it's just like yeah I feel like there is an experiment that could be a researcher could do an experiment here. They could you could um, have married men and have it reminds me of the um.
  • [38:57] Keith: Um, yeah I'm I'm not convinced. That's the case. It's an interesting theory though.
  • [39:12] Mike: What was that thing that you tried in in Europe this last summer with the ah the vaginal swabbing on the the the babbing vabbing was what it was called. Yeah and so it's like that you would have a married man and you could I mean they don't have to fuck another woman. You could just get.
  • [39:17] Keith: Oh yeah, what vabbing dabbing is Vape Vap vabbing yeah
  • [39:29] Mike: Secrettions and put them on their penis have them take a shower and then see if like their wife can sell tell on what days they did that and I I wonder I wonder like your penis don't smell good today. it's like yep it's testable
  • [39:32] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [39:41] Keith: I I wonder too but I'm less certain of the outcome than you seem to be.
  • [39:45] Mike: Yeah, that's what the person's worried about too by the way I suspect. That's why they post it to like Oh yeah.
  • [39:49] Keith: Yeah I Wonder yeah all right? This one is a little bit dicey at least I think it might be they say this is a woman I have fantasies that I'm not sure they are acceptable or right here's the thing.
  • [39:56] Mike: Good.
  • [40:03] Mike: So the.
  • [40:06] Keith: Created this new account to ask this because my sister follows my original account and I didn't want her to know about this I have a lot of fantasies and in all of them I'm being used by men either I'm being shared by them or they take me when whenever they want even if I don't want to or they use me as their toy I've been having these fantasies for a long time now.
  • [40:13] Mike: Yes.
  • [40:23] Keith: But I can't stop thinking that there's something wrong with me I feel like I shouldn't have these fantasies because I shouldn't want to be used does this mean I have low self-esteem I Don't think I have low self-esteem honestly or is this normal I'm young and I've never had sex before so I don't know if these fantasies will change once I once I have sex or if they'll stay. Just need to know if there's something wrong with me.
  • [40:42] Mike: I mean men have fantasies that go the other route the other direction right? men have I mean I used to what do you mean like.
  • [40:45] Keith: Um, yes, but those are absolutely forbidden like if if somebody was like well you know I have written like you know rape fantasies I think they would be I think they would be deeply shamed and told that it's wrong to to have those fantasies.
  • [40:58] Mike: Now I had a Fanta I used to fantasize about okay well is hang on it. So I had a fantasy in high school that I figured out how to hypnotize this girl in my class and ah I would hypnotize her and then she would have sex with me and Then. I would tell her to forget it and then I did it repeatedly is that wrong is that wrong I thought it was a pretty cool fantasy.
  • [41:18] Keith: I Mean how do you I mean that the thing that I wrote on our spreadsheet here is like who decides? What's okay to imagine like I think all of the response right.
  • [41:30] Mike: Oh that's easy. It's Ao c.
  • [41:35] Keith: All of the responses here are this is a very normal fantasy and please understand the fantasies are just imaginations. It doesn't mean that you want that in real life. Okay, fine. But if I said that I had like some sort of like pediatric Necrophiac bestiality like I want a fuck dead puppies right? like.
  • [41:50] Mike: Like what pediatric though where was that I Pediatric is not puppy pediatrics ah a child pediatric Necrophilia was a really good one and then you threw in the bestiality and it made no sense I hear you pediatric.
  • [41:53] Keith: People would.. It's a puppy. It's Young. Oh Pediatric doesn't just mean young of a species. Well I was trying to get bestiality in there. So like it's like a young puppy. It's ah it's a puppy that's not that's not of age.
  • [42:10] Mike: Pediatric you like a this this one I We have a listener that will enjoy this pediatric echofield. You could be somebody who likes to um, who likes to masturbate into aborted fetuses. Okay, we lost all our listeners bye.
  • [42:20] Keith: Oh my word jump.
  • [42:27] Keith: Um, wait what is it if you like small young animals.
  • [42:33] Mike: Nobody liked. That's not a I mean beasty like a juvenile beast out I'm not sure. Okay, so your's that yours is Pedophilia Human Yes, yes, it does the I mean having Okay, so.
  • [42:39] Keith: Yeah, what is Pedophilia does that necessarily mean human Okay, all right hard.
  • [42:51] Mike: Having a fantasy about being about being a pedophile I mean obviously is that's ah, that's a good example of one that and just for the record neither of us has those fantasies I Certainly don't ah but ah, having such a fantasy um you know like it's.
  • [43:01] Keith: Yeah I do not.
  • [43:09] Mike: I'm sure having such a fantasy is strongly suggestive that you're a pedophile. So it's a problem but I mean revealing it at least to like a therapist could be very useful I mean figuring out how to kind of deal with it to the extent you can I wonder if you know how they give them ah like in Portugal and there's other places they give they've legalized or.
  • [43:11] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [43:18] Keith: Yes.
  • [43:29] Mike: Decriminalized like heroin enough that you can get heroin you know about this where they where they so they're trying to make us. You don't get it on the street they're trying to get rid of the drug related violence so you can go to some place and you get your heroin I Wonder if you could do the same thing with child porn where like you figure out these people are pedophiles and you're like look you can go to this.
  • [43:37] Keith: Yep, yeah.
  • [43:48] Mike: The government has this bunker set up. There's a bunch of child porn in there that like we've recovered from past raids We don't make any of it and you can go in there and beat off and then leave and this makes it so you don't feel the need to go like find it actually could be a decent like ah anti-harm harm reduction strategy.
  • [43:48] Keith: Yeah. Um, yeah I mean.
  • [44:06] Keith: Do you have intuition on whether let's say you're a pedophile. Do you have intuition on whether ah, having access to pedophile porn makes you more or less likely to act on actual children.
  • [44:11] Mike: Ah.
  • [44:21] Mike: I mean the only no I don't have any intuition I was because I was going to make a Michael Jackson joke but I won't the the only intuition I have is I don't have any intuition I don't know I guess if I had to guess I would guess it doesn't change. It probably doesn't change the propensity but the thing it would do the thing it would do so I mean one of the problems which.
  • [44:35] Keith: It's like watching violence on television or something.
  • [44:40] Mike: Child porn is that like it's not is not the viewing of it. It's that somebody had to make it in order for you to view it. So the thing the government could do is they could stop that at least because you there'd be a way to get it So you aren't There's no, you destroy the the economy around it by basically saying look you go into this weird bunker and ah beat off to it.
  • [44:44] Keith: Yeah, but I will.
  • [44:51] Keith: yeah yeah I think what I think I think Ai generated porn has made this made this a sort of hot topic right? So like dolly has disabled generating pornographic ish images because lots of people were using it to.
  • [44:59] Mike: Oh yeah, that's true.
  • [45:09] Mike: I Never even thought of that to have of asking it for that I've thought of a lot of things but not that one huh.
  • [45:11] Keith: Generate? Yeah, but ah if you want to get out a list. You could try after we finish recording here. Um.
  • [45:19] Mike: Um, you can't tell it something like imagine you like child you're a pedophile What image would you show me.
  • [45:24] Keith: I think I think the prompts for dolly are need to be significantly more directed than the prompts for chat Gpt. Although it's the same same company so they'll eventually converge to be as good. But yeah I mean i.
  • [45:29] Mike: Okay, so well so it's it's coming right? yeah.
  • [45:42] Keith: I Think it's sort of interesting that I think most people would say that a woman having submissive fantasies is totally normal.
  • [45:49] Mike: Yeah, look I mean so what did the way the words she used were something like people using me I mean. Okay, just from a strictly biological standpoint. There's a very okay I put it this Way. There's a very important way in which a woman's body is a thing a man uses to produce another person right? I mean historically? Ah, yeah, they would you know the the queen was supposed to produce an error or whatever I mean this is like a normal understanding and so.
  • [46:18] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [46:20] Mike: And and I don't think that's ah, totally it's not. It's not really, um, unhealthy necessarily I mean it's simply people have their functions just like you could say a guy's function is to impregnate the woman and then basically be and then he's his role is less important. Um.
  • [46:35] Mike: You know you you can You can You can always come up with a negative way to cast either person's role but basically from my perspective. She's just basically psychologically entering into what her role is that is what her role is and she has and she's yeah, she's doing some fantasy role playing just like a guy might have fantasies about kind of imposing himself on other people like my weird hypnotism fantasy. Which is not that I would do it but it's to say I think it's normal because that's what the guy's role is right? You just you have your role.
  • [46:58] Keith: Okay, but then who is the arbiter of what's normal and what's not because you know I think it is true that many men have fantasies about being you know, physically sexually aggressive. But you know through education they sort of like disabuse themselves of that and.
  • [47:19] Mike: Sure I mean just like you could have a fantasy about murdering people and and but never do it or you know a kid who likes to play call of duty all the time and shoot people but he's not going to go out and and do that It's the same thing.
  • [47:29] Keith: Well I think that people would say that having fantasies about that about you know, murdering people all the time is actually bad because or I mean maybe I should argue like a further extreme like I think people would say that having pedophilia.
  • [47:40] Mike: I Don't know I mean.
  • [47:47] Mike: Um, pedophilic.
  • [47:47] Keith: Pedophiliac said a word P Pedophilic fantasies is bad because it implies something about you that would be harmful for society now. Is it true that a woman fantasizing about ah being raped. For example. Could have harmful.
  • [48:09] Mike: I Don't think I mean do you think that there's a I mean this is an interesting question. Do you think there's a significant problem of women ah causing themselves to be raped like for example, like women who just go out on the street and like and like lie down naked on the pavement with a sign that says rape me.
  • [48:17] Keith: Acting No I don't right I I do think that some very very very small percentage of women might put themselves in danger intentionally.
  • [48:24] Mike: Like that's not a thing right.
  • [48:32] Keith: But I think it's not like a major societal issue.
  • [48:33] Mike: Um, I think if anything my intuition would be that preventing the fantasies would increase the odds of that if anything I'm not sure about the pedophilia one that one I'm not positive about because that one's the thing with the pedophilia one is. It's not in the kind of the normal arc.
  • [48:39] Keith: Yeah.
  • [48:49] Mike: So it suggests something is messed up in the person's brain the these female ones are normal I think just normal I think that's actually the normal arc of female psychology is like yeah they um they they it's I mean read a romance novel like it's always some powerful unreachable guy who the woman tames by.
  • [49:01] Keith: Um, yeah, right right.
  • [49:07] Mike: Letting him fuck her now and then and then he falls in love with her like that's yeah, that's like how they internally represent the state of relationships. So yeah I don't I don't know I like my idea of the child porn bunker though I think that that should be maybe congress should take that up.
  • [49:14] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [49:26] Keith: Yeah I think there's been so I mean I think there's been some discussion about ah what to do with old confiscated child porn.
  • [49:36] Mike: Yeah, it's tricky.
  • [49:38] Keith: I mean 1 big issue is that it can like continuously like re-trigger people like I think there's some law in the United States where you basically have to get notified anytime like if you've been in some sort of like child porn content.
  • [49:51] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [49:54] Keith: There's some law where like you need to get notified anytime. It's confiscated I think so I think I've heard there was a big New York Times expose on child pornography like three years ago talking about like how Facebook and Twitter and other social media companies like try to manage their their censoring of it.
  • [49:57] Mike: Is that true Jesus.
  • [50:14] Keith: And like it's really delicate like what the employees who are in charge of like screening for that you know they need like therapy and they need to like actually look at these images but is that illegal like it was it was sort of an interesting philosophical discussion.
  • [50:28] Mike: They had they I saw I heard in thing on npr I try to avoid Npr because it's become so crazy crazed to the left these days but ah it is my default set in my car and um, they had a thing about these moderators for like Facebook and Instagram and stuff like that.
  • [50:42] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [50:45] Mike: And there was this guy in some country I think at the Philippines who claimed that he had just to repeatedly repeatedly view videos of people's faces being cut off and I thought my god like how many videos are there how many like what's your like what's your gut on how many unique videos.
  • [50:52] Keith: Yeah.
  • [51:03] Mike: And so how many different incidents of face cutting off have been video game. No no, it's the intuition isn't yeah I was thinking man that would be an easy job. No, but what's your intuition not about how many ah views such a thing would get but how many.
  • [51:04] Keith: My my intuition on this is is basically worthless compared to yours you consume way more extreme content than me.
  • [51:22] Mike: Unique times in like the last thirty years somebody has videoed or even 10 years somebody's face being cut off like how many videos could like this guy's like look I just keep having to see these things. It's like how many could there be I mean is it the same one again and again or is he is he just keep you know, okay, all right.
  • [51:31] Keith: Yeah I mean look we've we've already burned our listener base to the to the ground on this episode. So I I guess I could indulge this conversation. But how do you even cut a face off I don't understand.
  • [51:44] Mike: I don't know well that we it was an odd thing to say it was a really odd thing they said on Npr I Thought yeah exactly I was thinking to myself like what like I kind of want to see that video and I mean I don't really but like I mean I've seen things that are tangential to that. But that's just right. It seems very complicated is he is he alive or dead.
  • [51:47] Keith: Like it's like scalping but on the on the front.
  • [51:58] Keith: Yeah, how is it Ted genial to have your face cut off scalping I mean should we really keep. Yeah, yeah, yes.
  • [52:04] Mike: Ah, what are you asking? what I've seen that tangential to that I've seen some bad stuff I will I will just say generally that I haven't run across like ah videos from Mexican drug cartels. Those things are really bad. Yeah.
  • [52:17] Keith: Yeah I mean this kind of stuff used to be way more common before most of the public forums that allowed this bandit right? So there was like watch people die on subreddit and then there were on Reddit and there were a few other I know but they're not.
  • [52:24] Mike: Yeah, yeah, there's a new one.
  • [52:34] Keith: They they get sort of like taken down. It's not it used to be sort of like a I don't want to say mainstream but way more mainstream Ah Fetish isn't the word either like proclivity. Um, and it's it's harder now.
  • [52:46] Mike: Um, people don't people people get upset about that sub. But I've learned several things from that sub I've learned not to carry long metal ladders near electrical wires right? Don't be be basically don't.
  • [52:56] Keith: Never to ride a motorcycle.
  • [53:01] Mike: Ah, don't Here's a good one. Don't when you're in the passenger seat of a car that has an airbag don't put your feet This is important. Don't put your feet up where the airbag is don't do that I'm not I don't need to go further. Don't don't ever like.
  • [53:04] Keith: Oh no.
  • [53:11] Keith: Right? I know people die that way. Yeah.
  • [53:18] Mike: Put your head out the window of a car while it's driving unless you're sure what's in front of you.
  • [53:20] Keith: All right? We're done. Okay, the week we we we have 7 minutes left let me see if I get real this back in is it appropriate to ask for after her in a friends with benefits relationship I'm in a friends with benefits relationship with this guy I work with there is a several year age gap as always.
  • [53:24] Mike: But.
  • [53:37] Keith: But I'm totally cool with it as it's just casual and I find it pretty hot. We've been messing around for several months now and have really gotten the hang of how to please each other. He's actually really eager to do things for me in particular which is something I didn't really expect in the get-go yeah god anyways, we don't we don't just meet and fuck. We're pretty good friends and hang out for hours.
  • [53:49] Mike: From the get go here.
  • [53:57] Keith: Actually does mean something to me here. We go and I feel like we're pretty close although this isn't a relationship by any means I did develop feelings in the beginning. But for the most part I've gotten over it. 1 thing that bothers me though is that there is 0 after care after sex. No cuddling no affection nothing I'm somebody who really needs these things particularly after sex.
  • [54:09] Mike: You know.
  • [54:16] Keith: Just makes me feel kind of empty. Maybe a little sad if we bang and then just do something else or go so somewhere directly afterwards in the very beginning. He was pretty cuddly after sex but definitely not now is it reasonable to ask him to provide after care like this. What should what would I How would I do so all right? I know what you're going to say but.
  • [54:32] Mike: Oh really give it a give it a try Channel it.
  • [54:36] Keith: Okay, yeah, let me try and Ape affect you. Ah, you're going to say there's not really such things as a friends with benefit relationship for women. What she really wants is more intimacy from him both in the bedroom and out of the bedroom.
  • [54:42] Mike: Yeah.
  • [54:53] Mike: Close close I mean I think that I don't think that. Okay, so that's close. So I you're on the on the but it's I think it's meaningfully different what I would say Um, so first of all I think that her.
  • [54:55] Keith: Etc, etc.
  • [55:02] Keith: Okay, here comes the nuance.
  • [55:09] Mike: Whether a friend's worth benefits thing can exist or not depends very strongly on the woman's sex drive sex drive which typically not always but typically has a lot I think to do with the woman's level of attractiveness because the number of suitors that are interested in her matters I think so so in my view I'm viewing this as she's probably not.
  • [55:23] Keith: Okay.
  • [55:28] Mike: That attractive because she wants a friends with benefit situation and it's It's probably because it's differentially harder for her to get a sexual partner. Um now with in terms of the after care I think that she's misunderstanding the situation.
  • [55:34] Keith: Um, okay.
  • [55:46] Mike: If he started providing after care she would resume having feelings. So so actually the lack of after care is kind of important to maintaining this as a friends with benefits. She's basically saying oh I you know I want to I want to don't want to feel empty inside. It's like look lady. That's what that's that's what's that's the point. That's what you're don going for here. He's yeah, you're you're basically having.
  • [55:50] Keith: Right.
  • [56:00] Keith: That's the problem. Yeah yeah.
  • [56:06] Mike: A male you're having the male sex experience like look I feel after I feel empty afterward too I Just like that. So yeah I'm like I feel empty because my job during sex was to expel something into you so I did it and now I'm like good and.
  • [56:14] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [56:23] Keith: Um, have you ever cultivated a friends with benefits relationship yourself.
  • [56:24] Mike: And go watch some Tv.
  • [56:29] Mike: Um, I mean okay I would say I have tried. However I don't think that the woman ever understood it that way. Well maybe no I think one time maybe I had one where it was.
  • [56:37] Keith: Right? Yes I. Mutual.
  • [56:45] Mike: Because we kept yeah because she started dating another guy and I was like the creepy guy that kept fucking her and so it was clear. We weren't dating any longer and so yeah I had that experience and it was and it was I So I can only assume that it was because I was better at it than the guy she's was dating.
  • [56:53] Keith: Right? right.
  • [57:04] Mike: And so he she was unsatisfied.
  • [57:04] Keith: Yeah, that's really really a bad sign for the other gentleman in that equation. Oh God Brutal brutal and like he probably doesn't know right? like you can.
  • [57:12] Mike: They're still married. So.
  • [57:19] Mike: I Don't know that's a good question I'm sure he knows that we were intimate before him. But I doubt that he knows the other part. Yeah.
  • [57:22] Keith: Yeah, it's like 1 of those things like how can I end a marriage in 1 sentence. Um.
  • [57:28] Keith: At some point the the the timeline overlap. Yeah.
  • [57:37] Mike: I Don't know if it would end I mean it's probably been too long for it to end there. But yeah, certainly not that would that would be a very difficult. Not not exactly like fun hot tub conversation.
  • [57:45] Keith: Right? I don't I mean I asked because I'm not sure I ever have I mean I've certainly had relationships where you know there wasn't much substance. But yeah I think like you say the female. Was hoping it would develop into more.
  • [58:06] Mike: I think that but but you was I think one of the things you're doing is you're excluding. Yeah okay, that implicitly excludes a situation where you only have sex 4 times or something because then it's it's all ambiguous. You've but you're saying that you've never.
  • [58:17] Keith: Yeah.
  • [58:23] Mike: Said to somebody hey let's establish that we're friends with benefits and that's what we're doing yeah and then this gets back that.
  • [58:24] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I've tried like I've tried like breaking up with people and being like you know if you still want to hang out every once in a while I'm up for it but they're always like no no fuck you.
  • [58:35] Mike: What are they interesting. Yeah I mean I think that I think that this is that thing that we were texting about that you thought was insightful that I said thank you for that which was that like I think that that is a tell On. Ah. Something about your value on a scale of 1 to 10 or something to women is that basically like men. Yeah, yeah, it's It's some kind of ah a corollary to the thing I said about um I think that women who engage in fwb situations tend to be ones that have a harder time finding partners which does exist That's just. Look online and you'll see women who it's believable whether it's because they're attractiveness or age or behaviors or whatever and I think there's some analog there with men is that if you're a if you're above a certain bar. No woman is going to want to FWb you because you're more compelling and so that.
  • [59:13] Keith: Yep.
  • [59:29] Mike: Yeah, makes sense that you would not I mean and what does it say about me that I was like the creepy guy sneaking in the window now. Actually I was that guy more than once too. So.
  • [59:34] Keith: Yeah, maybe I'm not good enough in bed to justify friends with benefit that can't be it.
  • [59:42] Mike: I think that it was the I think the thing that was going on for me was it was just clear that they you know the woman was looking for a commitment and I wasn't going to do that they were you know they were looking they were aiming for the altar and I was like no so.
  • [59:50] Keith: Sure, yeah, yeah, all right? Well, that's time that'll do it for episode 101 of your mileage may vary. You can reach us at Ymmvpod on Twitter. Or at y m mv pod at Gmail.com so you can ask us questions there and we can either answer them online if you like or not if you like you can also give us feedback there. We somewhat famously pay $10 for any feedback we receive just let us know. How you want to be paid venmo or cash app or whatever it may be ah thanks for listening and we'll see you next week on your mileage may vary.