Your Mileage May Vary: Dentists Detecting Oral, Triple Protection, Thrusting Consistency, Premature Arrival

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith. We have an assortment of sexy topics to cover today including how to communicate about bad sex. How best to recover from rough sex a discussion about birth control paranoia versus pragmatism and of course.
[00:15] Mike: Um, here.
[00:19] Keith: Much more I am Keith and I am back from my central american adventure steadily recovering from some nonco plague I contracted while there my co-host is Mike thanks for picking up the 2 episodes slack while I was away Mike yeah, ah.
[00:31] Mike: Oh for sure, it's great. Yeah.
[00:38] Keith: I Think we're decided to embargo chatting about the last episode but good job on that interview.
[00:44] Mike: Well, you wanted to talk about some aspects of it didn't you.
[00:50] Keith: Ah, can you remind me what we decided is in bounds.
[00:54] Mike: Um, I think that I think there was a certain um there was a topic that you were interested in talking about and people of course could go back and listen to episode one zero six it was an interview with a lady who made a film about polyamory but generally we've moved talked to a number of I think women. Who are in these kinds of situations on the podcast and there seems to be some kind of like general flat affect they tend to have in other words, it's difficult to what what would you say what? would how would you describe like the flatness.
[01:23] Keith: I Think we've found that having sex positive or kink positive or polyamoryory positive and those are sort of often overlapping category Folks. Having people like this especially well I guess we haven't had very many men like that on the show but the women like that that we've had on the show seem fairly who need to be careful here unable or un. Interested in making the content entertaining. They're more interested in I guess teaching or explaining.
[02:13] Mike: Sure I mean yeah I think ah yeah, another way to say that is that there's there seems to be It's all very flat. There seems to be very little emotional content to it and so and you and I just know that can't be right or logically it makes sense to me that can't be right if a person has um. Things they do that are deeply personal that are unusual. Um, just in terms of like they're at 1 end of the bell curve on some curve There must be some something some some itch that scratching like. For example, if I enjoy being tied up and dominated I mean there's some. Emotion I mean I'm I'm not like a psychologist but it makes sense to me. There'd be some ah typically some emotion lying at the the bottom of that I'm getting some strong feeling out of doing it. There's some urge I have to do it and so you would expect there to be some um, some descriptions some.
[02:57] Keith: Right.
[03:07] Mike: Kind of vibrant language around that that could be brought to bear and instead the people that we talked to around these sorts of subjects seem very very like they just. It's all very matter. Of fact, it's all very mechanical. Oh well, this person dates this person and then dates that person and they have an agreement and they have consent and I mean which is all good but but.
[03:10] Keith: Um, yeah.
[03:26] Mike: It's I mean put it this way. It's not Romeo and Julia there's not like a there's nothing. It's there's no love story. There's no like emotion there. So it's it and I'm not like there could be a 3 person. Love story I'm saying like that's certainly possible. There just seems not to be him.
[03:28] Keith: Um, yeah.
[03:33] Keith: Is it.
[03:39] Keith: Is it the case that they're so beaten down by having to defend their thesis that yeah, they've almost lost the ability to talk about it with any sense of humor or passion.
[03:57] Mike: It's possible I think that's a possible explanation I mean I think like 1 one thing we talked about is that they it could be some kind of medication that a lot of people take like that sort of flattens their affect. It could be yeah that it's just like people outside the community never get it and so then they're just always afraid.
[04:08] Keith: Um, yeah.
[04:14] Mike: They'll wind up in some conversation that's sort of horrible and so they can't express. But I yeah I specifically asked for like what? um yeah, kind of what's in it for you or what's the what's yeah, what's what's the base of this and there was it was just there was nothing. It was like it was like ah talking to ah a zen Zen Monk like it's just emptiness.
[04:16] Keith: Um, yeah.
[04:27] Keith: Yeah, yeah I would be curious what her ah report and feelings about that interview was I mean presumably she's doing a bunch of media as part of this movie release and so.
[04:32] Mike: Like okay.
[04:44] Keith: I'd be curious listening to her other bits like I would think go ahead, Go ahead.
[04:47] Mike: I I talked to her you know I talked to her after we recorded and she told me she was surprised surprised by the content a bit and the reason was that I think she having listened to a number of episodes of our podcast expected me to ah.
[05:00] Keith: Go after her more.
[05:04] Mike: Yeah, to look for sort of well specifically ah to look for sexual details that she would reveal like oh you know, let's go play by play through one of your encounters. Um, yeah and I didn't actually want to do that because I was more interested in understanding the lifestyle.
[05:21] Keith: Um, yeah.
[05:23] Mike: Or or but be like yeah nice but I actually offered her the ability to say whether it was a lifestyle or a um, what? ah or like you're born that way and she said well it could be both and it's like Okay, yeah, yeah, it's one of these things where it's like yeah yeah.
[05:33] Keith: Yeah, yeah, okay, all right we should. We should not throw good money after bad I mean that content was milk toast enough and now we'relying the milk does cut daily. So let's let's just move on. Um.
[05:40] Mike: Sure sure sure. Yeah.
[05:49] Keith: How much. Okay, this is a little bit of a weird question for the show. But ah, how much did you wait? Did you weigh yourself this morning. How much were you oh man I was one fifty four point one you have
[05:55] Mike: Yes, one fifty two point something I'd have to look on my phone. Yeah, okay well I'm a little I think thinner boned than you are something. So I think I have a lower.
[06:07] Keith: Have beaten me.
[06:12] Keith: Well, you're an inch and a half shorter so that's the first thing. Ah.
[06:12] Mike: And ability to go lower. We ah don't know if I go that far. Maybe an inch where by the way for for the ladies list. The lady listening we're like both around six feet so we're not like super short people. Eric said that you looked the last time he saw you you looked like a ah victim of a.
[06:21] Keith: Right? yeah.
[06:32] Mike: Something like ah like like someone who'd been in prison and not underfed for a long time. Yeah.
[06:36] Keith: Um, yeah I mean you've seen me recently including right? This second we have video So ah I mean I'm skinny but I'm I'm healthy.
[06:42] Mike: It's true. Yeah, he's right.
[06:50] Mike: Sure.
[06:51] Keith: Although not really healthy the last three weeks all right let's talk about sex. Um, so let's do this topic first just because I think it's pretty good. Ah this person wonders waiting for it to load here 3 2 1 okay got. This person says should I tell him the sex was bad as a woman should I tell a guy if the sex was bad like is it a good thing to tell him so he can learn and improve or is it rude things like there was no foreplay. No after care, no dirty talk he expected head but wouldn't do it for me wouldn't compliment me at all or kiss my body or nothing slapped me in the face without asking if I like that or not. Didn't make me come or even ask if I did come just didn't care at all. Didn't ask what I like or don't like or what I want him to do nothing. He fucked like a teenage boy with a porn addiction and not sensual or like a real man at all very selfish sexually.
[07:30] Mike: Um.
[07:44] Keith: So want to say something so we can learn and evolve so we can be better for future women but my question is how can I say it without sounding rude. Also we're coworkers. So I have to keep the piece L O L okay well let's ignore that last part let's say you have a you know you're a young lady and you have a first sexual encounter with a man and.
[07:54] Mike: Yeah.
[08:03] Keith: He does these things like is there anything you can do I mean telling him even some of these things is going to just destroy his ego in such a way that he's probably not going to want to sleep with you again. So let's say you are interested in trying to reform him What's the best way to do so.
[08:19] Mike: Um, well I think it's I mean first of all, it's a little confusing I think it would be a little confusing for the guy because just taking 2 of the items she mentioned. Um, ah he didn't dirty talk and he did slap her without asking. But aren't those a little okay I realize they're on a different axis one is talking one is physical but aren't they a little bit ah and and or like what I'm trying to say if if you if you ah if if I ask for consent to slap you then that's like less dirty right? So he might have thought.
[08:35] Keith: Um.
[08:45] Keith: And there's an oxymoron here.
[08:53] Mike: Oh you know? So so yeah, so he was I mean Okay, the typical porn addictted criticism that I encounter is basically it's like he's just fucking like a meet a real doll like there's no, there's there's effectively nobody there. There's no actual person there that he's fucking.
[09:05] Keith: Right.
[09:11] Mike: Right? I mean I think that's a common common failure mode right? Well he's the woman might as well not be there. She's like you know the woman is made to feel like you could just replace her with another woman on the sly. Yes, um, but she doesn't seem to be saying that right.
[09:13] Keith: Yeah, he's absent.
[09:23] Keith: So right, she's a human flashlight.
[09:31] Mike: But okay, let's I mean we can take the question like at face value. How would how does she introduce such a topic with him.
[09:34] Keith: Um, yeah I mean look I Do think there are some ah inconsistencies in her complaints here but setting those aside, but let's say that you know her complaints are yeah there was no forplay. Ah, there was no dirty talk His technique was bad blah Blah blah and you know to the extent that those things are consistent. Yeah, like how can you possibly tell a man these things without offending him or hurting his feelings I don't think you can.
[10:04] Mike: Well I mean the the most canonical female Um, fantasy sexual fantasy is kind of the beauty of the beast scenario where the woman is she finds a guy who's kind of you know.
[10:20] Mike: Not Well-c culturetured not well-mannered and she reforms him. Um and so actually like this sounds like the beginning of some kind of a fairy tale. And yeah I mean there's a certain amount of female ingenuity that's required to figure out how you take the beast and turn him into a prince I Think that's what he turns into and I'm not sure. Um.
[10:23] Keith: Ah, half.
[10:37] Keith: Yes, he does.
[10:39] Mike: You know? so I mean she has to use her feminine wiles right? She has to like cajole him sort of yeah like sort of gradually or um, a little bit at a time move him so you know sort of encourage certain behaviors. But I actually think this is something that a woman would typically be up for.
[10:55] Keith: Ok, let's just let's let's make it specific. She thinks he doesn't engage in enough foreplay. How should she proceed? How should she tell him.
[11:01] Mike: Um, all right.
[11:08] Mike: Oh I mean wouldn't that just be I mean so when I was in high school. The first woman first girl that I had sex with ah she purposely and of course I didn't understand what was actually I'm still not totally sure what was going on but she purposely. Kind of like established boundaries on her body of what we could and couldn't do I mean these were definitely established by her. Ah oh like? um well I think at first it was like oh you know she her her her boobs and her pubic area were off limits. Ah.
[11:29] Keith: What's an example.
[11:36] Keith: Okay.
[11:40] Mike: So that was essentially a way of making it So what we could do is sort of grow each other and make out and then she like relaxed the breast area taboo and then ultimately relaxed. So I mean but like she was actually very explicit about it which is kind of funny in retrospect and and and there's certain. There's a certain like sexual dimension to that too like it's kind of hot that she was being so explicit about it. But.
[11:58] Keith: Um, yeah.
[11:59] Mike: I Mean that's like that's a pretty typical, especially for a young woman. That's a pretty typical thing to do right to establish these boundaries and I think that's sort of the point of them. It's forcing you to to do foreplay like and I mean ah, the boundary of hey I only want to do oral before we have intercourse like for some number of weeks.
[12:06] Keith: Sure.
[12:19] Mike: Well the the same thing It's basically forcing him to to actually do foreplay because it's the only thing you're allowing right.
[12:25] Keith: Yeah, but in this case, the boundaries have already been broken right? They've already had penetrative sex like it's It's hard to go back and undo.
[12:31] Mike: It's true. That's true. She blew it. Ah I mean she could she? Yeah, she would have to do some kind of a reset which would be tricky because now he's had the full experience with her and so he's likely to just move on at that point. And also I don't know if this in this day and age like guys would even tolerate with the amount of access to porn that men have maybe they wouldn't tolerate some kind of boundaries like do you ever? ah have encounters with a woman who tries to set any boundaries like that or is it pretty much I mean obviously the first date typically the boundary is you're not going to have any kind of sex but like let's say date 3 or 4 I mean do they.
[13:00] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[13:04] Keith: Yeah, no, not anymore I mean I'm 42 right like if I'm in your bedroom or you are in mine. It's going to be pretty tricky to impose a over the broad rule.
[13:07] Mike: Is there ever any boundaries I mean maybe they're their anus is a boundary. Yeah yeah.
[13:23] Keith: For example.
[13:23] Mike: Interesting. So you've never had a woman after say age 30 do that of any kind like I mean anus I think anal I I suspect is a boundary that's somewhat common but like let's say ah.
[13:29] Keith: I'm thinking. Yeah sure but I don't try to go there on the first sexual encounter. You know? yeah.
[13:39] Mike: Sure sure so they they it's an implicit boundary that makes sense.
[13:43] Keith: I mean we read about men who try to go there on the first sexual encounter and women seem pretty confused about that.
[13:45] Mike: Oh of course, fits your thing I mean a guy wants to get so so the answers. No, you have not okay but I mean I think that's what this woman like there. There are certain sort of normal cultural practices that.
[13:56] Keith: Um, not that I can recall.
[14:05] Mike: Have the effect of kind of shaping the man's libido into a certain behavior.
[14:07] Keith: Yeah but Mike I think that like outside of like your early early 20 s and late teenage years. That's not a super reliable way to get somebody to engage in foreplay like I think if you want somebody to engage in Foreplay. You have to say like. Hey man could we make out a little bit first before you shove your hand down my pants I just don't know how you say that without offending him or hurting his feelings.
[14:30] Mike: Um, I think the issue yeah but isn't the issue there that bias by I mean you have sort of 2 phases right? You have the phase when the guy is kind of being trained by 1 or more women and you have the phase. Yeah.
[14:42] Keith: Yeah, but she's missed. She's missed that window.
[14:47] Mike: I understand so once you get to the subsequent phase where he has his behaviors set in I think the typical thing is just to reject him because you figure ah which is sort of a boring answer I know that I'm sure that's like the reaction most of the people would give on a Reddit thread to this question. But yeah I mean there's not that much you can do at that point because.
[15:00] Keith: Right.
[15:06] Mike: If you I always think that if you say hey could you do this? Could you do that? The the thing is they don't really want to. So now you're um, now you're like you're inherently like sort of demanding something from them. That's not really wanted.
[15:19] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[15:23] Mike: So he he has his set of things he wants to do and and you're not, You're not on board with that and there are guys out there that don't want to do that.
[15:31] Keith: Yeah I mean you are right? Everybody says just break up with them and move on. There's too much to reform there but like even if there's was just like something mild to reform like let's say his oral sex technique was bad. You know he's earnest he's he's giving it a real go.
[15:36] Mike: Yeah.
[15:48] Mike: That one I think is easier to deal with because there is enough individual variability Like for example, if you if you didn't if you found a woman's oral sex technique to be bad. You could say hey I like more focus on this area or that area and it wouldn't feel like a criticism. It would feel like.
[15:49] Keith: But.
[15:54] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[16:05] Mike: Just identifying a unique characteristic and so she could I think really easily do that much harder to to reform like the guy just basically only pursuing his own pleasure and not foreplay at all the dirty talk I mean the dirty talk is sort of more intriguing I mean she could try dirty talking him.
[16:09] Keith: Um, yeah.
[16:14] Keith: Um, yeah.
[16:22] Mike: Which would probably elicit it from him because he'd few most guys probably have that in them some to some extent.
[16:23] Keith: Yeah, Dirty talk is sort of a high risk ah Arena in general I mean there are things you can say that will really turn her on but. What people want in that regard varies a lot and saying the wrong thing has a lot of downside risk right? like so some people like being praised some people like being mocked some people like being dominated. Ah you know there's there's sort of different things there and then like.
[16:46] Mike: You see now.
[16:59] Keith: People can switch between those 3 things depending on phase of the moon and what time of day it is right like it's just it's tricky. Um.
[17:08] Mike: Yeah I was going to say that a friend of the show Eric doesn't he he's the he's one of the people that we've encountered he listened to gone wild audio while masturbating and um, he yeah.
[17:18] Keith: Um, right? yeah.
[17:23] Mike: He specifically told me that he would not tell me what? ah what he listens to.
[17:30] Keith: Yeah I don't think I don't think I really know what I would but I probably would not share that.
[17:38] Mike: Um, really, but you would share what video you consume.
[17:43] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I guess I would share I think I've gotten used to sharing everything on this stupid podcast. So I don't have any or have any concern I did want to say 1 more thing about ah oral sex. It's nice when women give guidance in early sexual encounters about what. Their preferences are it's unusual. Most women don't and so I have to basically try this whole encyclopedia of tricks to see what they like and you know takes a few sexual encounters to sort of dial that in but some women are confident enough to say like oh you know harder or softer.
[18:19] Mike: What are the more this and more that's that you typically would hear like what what kind? Yeah I'm just curious actually.
[18:19] Keith: More this more that and ah oh like during oral sex. Um some women like having ah digital penetration while you're stimulating their clit with their tongue. And so some will say like oh you know, maybe 1 more finger or no fingers at all or some women like more pressure on their clit and some like less and it seems to be fairly random and so you know they'll say like oh that's too hard or you know that's too soft and then oftentimes they want it to be harder. The closer they are the more aroused they are.
[19:00] Mike: And what so and what? um, just curious. What is the ah like is it more likely which which one would which one would surprise you more Ah, asking for a finger when there's no finger or the vice or vice versa.
[19:13] Keith: I think most women prefer 2 fingers.
[19:17] Mike: Okay, and so so so if you put in 2 and she told you to go to 0 that would be a little more surprising than going from 1 to 2 For example, have you had a woman ask from 2 to 3
[19:25] Keith: Yes. No, 3 is kind of tricky anyway, right? like because you can use your index and ring finger and kind of keep them next to each other but keeping 3 next to each other Oh sorry Index and middle finger is what I meant to say.
[19:34] Mike: Okay, why is that. Okay, wait Wait Index your ring finger is your fourth Finger. So Index Okay, okay.
[19:50] Keith: And when you add the ringle the ring finger is the third finger. It just like yeah.
[19:53] Mike: Um've so I've noticed in lesbian porn that the 2 fingers they often select are the middle finger and the ring finger not the index and the middle finger and then they sort of make this. Yeah they make this like you know if you're like trying to make like a little dog with your hand. You know where you have the 2 ears with your pinky and your.
[20:01] Keith: Really.
[20:10] Mike: Index finger in your thumb. They'll make kind of that thing and and and and and my theory about that I've noticed it is that maybe the 2 outside fingers kind of help stabilize your hand exactly whereas if you're using the other 2 fingers like you have a little bit of instability on the thumb side of the hand.
[20:12] Keith: Ah, ah oh they can brace. Yeah.
[20:29] Mike: Right.
[20:30] Keith: Huh It's been a while since I've had sex. So hopefully I'll have an opportunity sometime in the nearest future here. But now yeah.
[20:36] Mike: You didn't have sex with anybody in central America how is that part I thought that thought that was like when people go to central America you know certainly Mexico that's just didn't happen. No this sounds good though. Let's hear it.
[20:47] Keith: I stayed at a party hostel. Do you know? what? a party hostel is yeah so you know there's different types of hostels in cities you visit and some are quieter than others and some explicitly sort of identify as a party hostel. So. Like every night they'll have like they had a beer pong tournament one night they had a a karaoke thing one night and you know the bar is ah prominently placed and I don't normally stay in hostiles but it can be a really great place to meet people. So I I tried it. Um, this trip and indeed it is and I I did meet some people but I got sick pretty early in the trip and so I wasn't really interested in pursuing women in the way that I otherwise might.
[21:35] Mike: Um, and didn't you you you met a a young lady who told you she was very familiar with Nicaragua but then didn't know who the president was yeah.
[21:45] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean staying at Hostels is generally sort of depressing when you travel like everyone there is there to like drink and party and yeah like I didn't I told you the story offline but I'll just retell it here. Yeah I was sitting and talking to.
[21:58] Mike: Um, yeah.
[22:04] Keith: Ah, 2 or 3 folks and they were talking about how safe Nicaragua was and how they hadn't had any issues and their friends and family were like why are you going there. It's so dangerous and I had actually been pulled over for bribes 3 times by the 3 times by the police at that point in my trip.
[22:23] Mike: Um, read did you learn the Spanish word for bribe.
[22:23] Keith: And I was sort of irritated with them touchdown dancing about how safe it was so no deerro is fine deero means money that that's adequate in in that circumstance. Ah.
[22:33] Mike: Yeah, all right.
[22:41] Keith: And yeah, so I was annoyed by like you know how they were so confident about how wonderful Nicaragua was and I said like oh it seems like you're really familiar with the politics here who's the president and you know of course all 3 of them didn't know and they were like. Briefly mildly embarrassed. But I don't think they realized the sort of irony there in a way that I would have liked. Ah.
[23:06] Mike: Looks like it's a subborno. Um the yeah and of course that's actually been in the news quite a bit. Yeah, it's been in the news quite a bit because Daniel Ortega who's the president there. There's some sort of um.
[23:09] Keith: Oh bribe.
[23:19] Mike: I can't remember the details but something between him and the Catholic Church and stuff like and he was somebody who was who was a leader there maybe in the 80 s or 90 s sort of came back.
[23:25] Keith: He was and then he came back into power and he's recently removed term limits and the elections are all a sham and it's I mean it's a mess.
[23:33] Mike: Yeah, so it's it's actually like of something that's caused some consternation and and is in the news. So it's something that you could imagine. Ah let put it this way if you do a search for like current events in Nicaragua his name will come up pretty quickly.
[23:44] Keith: I mean just the poverty there and the lack of ability to like do anything without just being completely coded in corruption and the crime and all this I mean it's just like well known and this notion of that these hostile goers.
[23:56] Mike: Sure.
[24:04] Keith: We're enjoying drinking their margaritas in their little bubble kind of bothered me all right? Let's move on women who are into rough sex. Is there any way to prevent or control the afterwards pain I Love having some nice rough sex but my vagina is always hurtful and sore hurtful. Yeah, and sore.
[24:07] Mike: Yeah.
[24:15] Mike: Um.
[24:21] Mike: Hurting. Yeah.
[24:23] Keith: Maybe you talked about this already but we can have a we can have a different rub here so to speak and sore for 1 or two days after that, especially if mylitus rubbed roughly if you like it will just come off after a few hours I'm also worried that the irritation might make me prone to infections lubricants play a significant role that's for sure but is there anything else to be done.
[24:25] Mike: Yeah.
[24:40] Keith: Ah, heat feeling uncomfortable for days because of a few hours of fun but I also sometimes just really want it so badly that I just can't stop myself from going for it. Plus is this even normal does it happen to everyone or is it just me and I need it as a doctor also is there anything I can do to lower the chance of infection caused by the small cuts so this was. Interesting to me and not something I'd really considered I mean sex is pretty violent toward the woman I mean you're being penetrated oftentimes aggressively and roughly and quickly and yeah, the amount of physical harm that is imposed by that is much higher on the woman. And women than it is for men I mean I'll sometimes if I haven't had sex for a long time and I have sex like you know like my hips will be a little bit sore my groin will be a little bit sore but it's not you know it goes away after establishing a regular habit.
[25:31] Mike: If you were to accept a pegging. It would probably you'd have a similar oh and also by the way oh gosh I really wanted to look this up there I saw a Tiktok this is related I saw a Tiktok that was with a dentist.
[25:36] Keith: Um, yeah.
[25:42] Keith: Okay.
[25:48] Mike: And he and then I searched around for it and it seems to be true that there is a characteristic pattern of bruising in the in the mouth area that can tell you? yeah they can tell you that somebody had oral sex. Perhaps.
[25:54] Keith: Um I saw this too I like that I said this to you maybe? Yes, yes, it was yeah it was a woman in a dentist office and she was asking a dentist if it was true that dentists can tell if women have had oral sex recently. And the dentist said Yes, Absolutely I.
[26:11] Mike: Right? And yeah, and there's and actually if you search the internet and look for pictures you in fact, can't you can see examples of sort of the characteristic pattern there. Yeah and sort of a.
[26:21] Keith: Um, yeah, there's yeah, there's characteristic bruising on the soft palate. He said huh? Yeah right.
[26:30] Mike: Ah, circular pattern that is in just the obvious spot. Yeah.
[26:35] Keith: Okay, so that's going to be horrifying for some of our female listeners who have upcoming dental appointments. You're going to have to lay off the blowjobs for a couple days leading up to it. But yeah I mean that's just another example of like the specific physical harm that women ah can have inflicted upon them.
[26:53] Mike: You could have a man could have like a fingernail ah marks on your back or something.
[26:53] Keith: During sex. Yeah well look gay men have all kinds of issues with this right? like this is why me got don't even know if this is like allowed to say. But yeah, this is why HIV transmission is much higher amongst gay men than in any other.
[27:00] Mike: 8 sure.
[27:12] Keith: Man woman combination right? Yeah, there's cutting and tearing AndHV is blood borne.
[27:12] Mike: Well presumably? Yeah, or I mean if you're anybody who's receiving anal sex is That's really the primary Vector. What do you think is what do you think is going on so one of the things she said that I didn't catch before is that she um. Sometimes she just really wants. It. So that's sort of interesting like it. It suggests like a real need for something sort of more aggressive to be done to her. What do you think is behind that. Yeah.
[27:30] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[27:38] Keith: Yeah, let's just for the sake of argument. Let's stipulate that she means she likes being pounded extremely hard right? So they're in missionary or doggie style I know but let's just like come up with a specific example. So we don't get like bogged down in the details. So like what is it that is making her want that.
[27:46] Mike: Could be could be sort of yeah okay sure.
[27:57] Keith: Versus something that might be otherwise more stimulating.
[28:03] Mike: Yeah, like what it I mean I assume I assume that it's um, yeah, there's some sort of emotional release there that she's getting out of that that right I mean that sort of makes some sense but it's yeah, it's It's interesting to me that she would yeah okay.
[28:06] Keith: Yeah, something about being used as a sexual object I think does.
[28:20] Mike: Yeah I'm I'm imagining like it's ah it's like somebody who is trying to quit smoking and they're like oh I know I shouldn't because there's like this physical harm.. There's a well smoking as the addictive element but let's just say you talk about the physical harm. She knows that she's going to be in pain afterward and she still it's that compelling to her that she still says Okay I've got to I've got to do this? Um, that is somewhat surprising to me. It's not congruent with my general view of how women view sex. But I don't know. Yeah.
[28:51] Keith: Yeah.
[28:53] Mike: Have you encountered a woman that you thought really really really needed just like would demand this type of experience or very clearly needed it.
[28:57] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, although I don't know I'm thinking of 1 person in particular but we only had sex like maybe 3 or 4 times and so I'm not sure.
[29:11] Mike: Okay.
[29:15] Keith: But I I remember like the third time I was like huh this is actually sort of not that great like she just always wants harder. Um, and.
[29:22] Mike: But was it harder in the sense like that that it seemed like she physically needed that stimulation or was it harder in the sense like she really wanted to to be used.
[29:31] Keith: I Think it's both she needed the stimulation in order to feel more used like it made it more fun for her to be objectified and it wasn't like it wasn't that I was like having problems lasting which I guess could potentially be an issue if you're being asked to go harder and faster.
[29:36] Mike: Okay.
[29:51] Keith: It was more that like yeah was it. It became like a like a physical endeavor. It was like exercise and it was and it didn't didn't really do that much for me and so yeah I guess it was boring is the right word here.
[29:57] Mike: Her.
[30:06] Mike: Interesting. Well if it's boring for 1 partner. Maybe it's exciting for the other you're like transferring.
[30:08] Keith: yeah yeah I don't think she could detect my boredom though and and in fact, if she could she probably wouldn't have been as turned on by it. But I mean I remember specifically the third time I was like hot this is kind of annoying and then the fourth time I was like oh this is super annoying I don't.
[30:19] Mike: Huh that makes sense. Oh.
[30:27] Keith: Want to do this anymore. Ah yeah, my examples earlier weren't random. It was missionary and and doggy doggy style.
[30:29] Mike: Um, and what was the position she wanted to be pounded in.
[30:34] Mike: Got it? Yeah I mean that yeah, it's it but this gets to the thing of I have some curiosity about what people who are like going to a dominaterix or getting out of it like I can intellectually Understand. Oh you know they're getting some kind of release or whatever. But're Yeah I'm more interested in what's going through their mind at the time like are they reliing reliving some childhood experience are they is it that they are ah some sort of high-powered executive during the day and so like there's some.
[30:58] Keith: Um, yeah.
[31:08] Mike: Part of their brain that gets stimulated that ordinarily isn't or yeah I just have no idea. Yeah.
[31:12] Keith: Yeah, the submissiveness I'm I'm not sure I mean lots of people that I've had sex with like this occasionally? Um, but yeah I guess there's a um.
[31:20] Mike: Okay, you don't think they're just placating you. Yeah, by the way just before I forget about this so with the two with the finger insertion. So when you put in 3 fingers I assume the 3 fingers you use are the index the middle and the ring.
[31:29] Keith: I Don't know I don't know they. But yeah, they might be projecting I'm not sure.
[31:38] Keith: Yes.
[31:44] Keith: Yes, not that I can remember or or not not enough times that you know yeah I mean I'm practicing right now I mean I can hold them stiff so that it makes.
[31:46] Mike: Sounds like you've never had somebody want that. Okay, and then what if you do that they form sort of a triangle then or can you get them horizontal.
[32:03] Keith: So that it's 3 in a row and they don't really triangle. But I think after I was sort of jamming in and out there. They I probably fall back to the pyramid configuration.
[32:04] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[32:13] Mike: Right? And then that winds up effectively. The the fingers that are really doing the work are the index and the ring because because when I say doing the work like the the main stimulation there is pushing toward her stomach right.
[32:20] Keith: Both. Right? Yeah, the middle ring is the middle finger is sort of a Stabilizer.
[32:32] Mike: And then do you ever go for the pinky as well or because then you would be making kind of a square right? and then that and then it would be the pinky in the index that are kind of in contact with the.
[32:35] Keith: Um, no yes, yes I mean you could do a few things here like you can put them foreign or or row you can sort of tetris them so you have this like super wide thing. But.
[32:48] Mike: That I don't think would fit I think if you turned it ° and so the say pinky was toward the clit or wait the pinky was toward the anus and the index was toward the clit did you do you have you ever done that. So do you always finger with the kind of palm facing upward. Do you ever turn sideways or.
[32:53] Keith: Business.
[33:05] Keith: Yeah sideways with four fingers I think would just not be super compelling. Maybe but I just don't think that's what they want.
[33:06] Mike: Down. Well let's say with 2 with 2 do you ever do some rotation in there and like it pointing down. Oh no, it's not but I mean just to amuse yourself or like to give them you know to I guess it would just be to amuse yourself.
[33:21] Keith: Yeah to explore the biology. Yeah I'm sure I have but it wasn't like a memorable moment in my life.
[33:25] Mike: You don't do that? Okay well I feel like I mean I think we may have discussed this before but that like if you go if you if you turn them sideways. Of course it depends on whether you do you use your right or your left hand for that Typically I know you're left handed So that's you have that going so which chance.
[33:41] Keith: I'm pretty ambidextrous on this particular task I think I would prefer to use my right? So I play sports with my right? My right hand is a bit stronger I masturbate with my left but I I.
[33:45] Mike: I think that I always use my right hand.
[33:51] Mike: Okay, when you say play sports you mean move the mouse on your computer right.
[33:57] Keith: I Occasionally throw a baseball or a football but it's yes I do I throw right handed I shoot shoot a basketball right? handed.
[34:03] Mike: And you throw them right? handed. that's interesting okay um that's Hu that's okay ah so you.
[34:13] Keith: But I do archery and pool and riflery left handed. Yeah yes.
[34:19] Mike: And you right with your left hand. That's the problem but the the ah okay so if you so let's say you're doing your right hand in this case and you put them in vertically then you can bend your Knuckle and you can actually sort of access sort of the ligaments and musculature around her hip and leg there.
[34:25] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[34:35] Keith: Yeah, yes, that's presumably what that Michigan State Gymnastics Doctor was allegedly doing.
[34:40] Mike: Right? right? So there is some interesting investigation you do there but I don't think that's what they want and then of course you can turn them completely around ° from what's desired and and and and caress to rect them I assume you don't do that either.
[34:54] Keith: Right? No I mean look these are all options I think I have done all of these things like there was no good handbook on like how to fingerb bang a woman and so you you sort of eventually figure out that you know some sort of claw shaped thing where you can stimulate.
[35:05] Mike: Here stop.
[35:13] Keith: The clit from the other side is generally preferred.
[35:14] Mike: Right? Do you ever have a woman. Do you ever have a woman comment on that technique. Okay, the more 1 thing or more 1 less. Do you ever have a woman comment on like how firmly you're pressing up and in and the typical request is what okay, interesting.
[35:25] Keith: Yes, yeah, some prefer harder is some prefer harder some prefer less I I dated this one girl I think I told this story but it was like 60 episodes ago who really liked aggressive ah finger banging and she was.
[35:39] Mike: Okay.
[35:42] Keith: Always asking for it harder and I actually bought one of those like grip things actually 2 of these grip things because I wanted both I wanted to strengthen both hands. Yeah, the handgripper thinks that like mountain climbers practice with and I was making some progress but we broke up.
[35:49] Mike: Well the Handgrippers right? yeah.
[35:59] Mike: Her unrelated break up the breakup was not oh did she ghost you? Okay, you ghosted her.
[36:00] Keith: I Don't know I mean maybe my hands just weren't strong enough now I broke up with her but this is a while ago now I think we had like a dramatic thing.
[36:16] Mike: Ah, unrelated to the fingers strain. It's too bad.
[36:18] Keith: Yeah, it's not interesting. Yeah, um, okay, are you are I think we're good here. Are you ready to move on all right? This person says my girlfriend won't have sex with me till I save some money abortion is illegal here. She's already made an appointment with a doctor to get birth control.
[36:24] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[36:33] Mike: Um.
[36:36] Keith: And I'm completely fine with using condoms pills plus condoms seems like the ideal combo which should give us 100% certainty am I wrong. She told me she won't have sex to we open together a savings account. She already told me how much money we should have.
[36:47] Mike: Yeah, smart.
[36:52] Keith: Ah, which she calculated hold on hand I Guess sorry use the cough button there She won't have sex till we open a savings account. She already told me how much money we should have which she calculated based on the cost of a trip to our neighboring country and cost of the abortion plus some extra money. Of course I won't insist. That's what she wants I agree but isn't it a bit Paranoid is this approach normal for more Context. We're not poor or anything we're young, don't have much savings at the moment but we're doing just Fine. So My read of this was I mean Gosh it's. It does seem excessive. But I think that's just because culturally this isn't done like she's actually being pretty smart here. It's wild How unusual such behavior is but yeah.
[37:39] Mike: Yeah, there's some suspicion you would have that she has some ulterior motive and wants to just take off of the money. Although I I can't imagine. It's that much money. Um, meaning yeah.
[37:44] Keith: Um, yeah, of course right yet. This would be an awfully long con to make like $500 or whatever.
[37:55] Mike: Yeah, yeah, it's probably between say 502000 or something. It's not that much money I mean significant for a young couple. Maybe but not an amazing amount. Um, she could probably make more by escorting twice or something.
[38:05] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah I mean my spider sense went up when she said they open together a savings account but this person seems like English isn't their first language that might have just been whatever.
[38:12] Mike: Um, yeah.
[38:16] Mike: Now might be together I mean it's just yeah.
[38:19] Keith: It could be and that would be a little bit of a yellow flag but let's let's let's assume for the sake of this conversation that.
[38:27] Mike: Yeah I sort of like how ah ah the pro-life laws in this case or anti-abortion. Whatever you want to call it are creating just this like little maze this little mouse maze. These people have to run through I mean it shows you that laws like that Essentially don't do anything I mean they just. You're just this is very common with the government regulation. They're just creating some sort of trap and of course these people are on probably on the smarter side so they can run the maze people that are less fortunate in their brain area maybe can't run the maze and then just wind up screwed so it doesn't really.. It's the the impacts of these kinds of regulations are confusing. The important thing is it's not like the law convinced them that abortion's bad. It certainly didn't do that it just it's just this like well it might I mean the woman. Um the woman sounds like she's willing to consider not having sex because of.
[39:11] Keith: Right? right? or not to have sex or whatever.
[39:25] Mike: The need for this money but the but the point is it's not yeah, it's still like hey just let's get together this money like she's still um and by the way I mean I think I would say that I think a large percentage of women in this situation would not care if they had sex. It's that they expect the guy will break up with them if they don't.
[39:45] Keith: Yeah I think that's right I mean do you think that women should yeah I mean I ah I think basically to the extent that this woman isn't trying to scam him and I don't think she is I think this notion of being like look. We're gonna. Use 2 different kinds of birth control and we need to have an abortion plan I feel like that's a good conversation to have before people have sex the first time and I bet it happens less than 5% of the time.
[40:08] Mike: Yeah, the only yeah, the only criticism I have here is the condom I think that if you're I think that you if you properly taken the birth control pill is going to be pretty effective and since you have this abortion plan. It's like I mean. I think that 2 of the three here and I think the abortion plan makes sense as one of the 3 but I think 2 of the 3 is probably sufficient having 3 is a little like the truth is if they're using a condiment a pill the odds that she would need an abortion are really close to 0 like really close but okay, you know I mean.
[40:28] Keith: Um, yeah, um.
[40:40] Keith: Sure but you want you want that abortion plan because that 100% takes care of any failure and birth control.
[40:47] Mike: It does it does I mean I I would I would note of course that you know it's impossible I Assume that it is true that there's some percentage of the time that women have abortions and then later have some regret. Some terrible psychological consequences. So It's not even even in the situation where she has the abortion. It's not necessarily like a risk-free situation for her and it probably is for him probably he won't care. But for the woman I think there is some some incids of like subsequent psychological damage because of having an abortion.
[41:21] Keith: That's interesting. So yeah, you want to multiply the probabilities here like the the probability of psychological damage times the probability of needing to get an abortion because either the condom or the birth control failed. Yeah.
[41:23] Mike: Yeah.
[41:33] Mike: Right? I mean there's no this is like driving a car and the risk of getting an accident. You can't it's like micromorts or whatever you can't eliminate all risk. But I just I mean I think it's fair to acknowledge that even if it's not abortion is not 100% safe psychologically for either party but really for the woman like for the man I don't.
[41:41] Keith: Um, right.
[41:53] Mike: Think it's that common for men to be like all broken up because their partner had an abortion. Yeah, it could be performative right? Yeah, but for women I think it's I mean it makes sense to me that it's a real thing particularly if she subsequently doesn't have a kid but I I mean I've just I've I've personally known enough women that like named.
[41:54] Keith: You hear about it sometimes but it's mostly in pro-life documentaries right.
[42:07] Keith: Yeah, but.
[42:13] Mike: And had buried babies that they um, ah miscarried I've known multiple women that did that and so it's like Wow and they tell you about it and you're like Wow the fact that you're telling me about this Well abortion abortion is some ways.
[42:18] Keith: Yeah, yeah, but miscarriage versus a early term abortion is different also. Also yeah, one of the one of the I think benefits of having.
[42:30] Mike: It's more ah voluntary but go ahead. Yeah.
[42:38] Keith: Plan like this which is I'm going to get an abortion if I get pregnant is that you sort of amortize that potential guilt you you frontload right? like you, you've made the call and you don't need to like it. It becomes less of a decision and more of just like wrote following the plan and I.
[42:48] Mike: Me yeah.
[42:57] Keith: I Bet there's some benefit to that as well.
[42:57] Mike: Yeah, and then also you can do it earlier in the pregnancy I I would assume that it's ah harder to do it once you show physical signs of pregnancy than say six weeks six weeks into the pregnancy when it's not clear like.
[43:08] Keith: Um, yes, yes yeah I mean look I think that's strong advice.
[43:15] Mike: Very clear that you are yeah and having a plan having a plan improves your odds of doing that right? If you don't have a plan then you might spend two months thinking about it and then by that point you are going to experience some problems psychologically no matter what you do? yeah.
[43:24] Keith: Yes.
[43:30] Keith: Yes I think any therapist or medical doctor I think I think some therapist or medical doctor I didn't mean to separate those categories would they would both say do it sooner rather than later I don't think that's controversial. Um.
[43:40] Mike: Sure sure Yeah, all right.
[43:47] Keith: All right? So but yeah I mean you basically agree that having adult conversations about birth control is a good idea I don't think that's.
[43:50] Mike: I do I just think that I I it always I mean and you see this a lot on forums on Reddit for example is the ah the condom plus birth control pill I think that is I think. I'm not sure I agree with that generally because I don't I think that um, while yes, it's going to increase the decrease the odds a little more um I think that you should measure that against the um decrease in the pleasure or benefit that you get from sex. And I just think the birth control pill is so effective if taken properly that like the when that when the birth control fill fails. It's look It's mostly because it's not taken properly. Some of them have to be taken at the same time each day and so forth anyway, go on. Yeah.
[44:25] Keith: Yes, yes I agree my ah.
[44:36] Keith: I'm going to say some? Yeah I'm going to say something sort of red pill here. Ah you should not assume that your partner is taking birth control. Ah even if they tell you that they are if if you're an adult right? like if you're.
[44:49] Mike: Who.
[44:53] Keith: You're my age. You can assume more but it's not. It's not that they're like lying and trying to get pregnant. It's that a lot of women are not great at remembering to do something at 8 a M or eight p m every day there are various apps you can get on your phone that remind you to take your birth control.
[45:07] Mike: Here.
[45:13] Keith: And there are various birth controls that don't sort of leave it up to the woman. You can get shots. You can get iuds. You can get whatever that thing in your arm is that release. Yeah, that releases the hormone slowly. But yeah, the most common failure of hormonal birth control is.
[45:18] Mike: Nor plant. Yes.
[45:30] Keith: The woman forgets to take her pill three days in a row and then it causes some sort of weird. Whatever. And so yeah, like when dealing with nineteen year olds if you're a man you might want to make sure that you know the person is a reliable person before trusting that and so there are some circumstances where I think.
[45:30] Mike: Yes.
[45:45] Mike: Right? Yes I think that's sort of more articulate than I was than I was I mean for the for the man. So so basically there's a thing the man can do. There's a thing. The woman can do and.
[45:50] Keith: You know, doubling up with a condom could make sense.
[46:02] Mike: You could have a situation where they both do the thing and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing I think is a little weird is the woman insisting on the pill plus the condom because she knows that she's taking the pill just like I think it would be weird for the man if the man's using a condom. He shouldn't really care if she's on the pill because he can control if the condom is used properly.
[46:07] Keith: Um, yeah I know.
[46:16] Keith: Yeah I think I think what's I think what's going on here is basically a overbelieving or overcompensating or overly effective basically high school health class where the teacher just sort of scared people about the risks and said like well you should.
[46:20] Mike: Pretty effectively.
[46:30] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[46:35] Keith: Use 3 condoms and 4 different kinds of birth control and also take the morning after pill and is that right? like she's she's probably been scared ah into her current thing and and you know after a couple years of or maybe even a couple months she'll probably get a little bit more reasonable about this.
[46:38] Mike: Right? Welcome here. Yeah I mean.
[46:53] Mike: Yeah I mean I can put a little back of the envelope context to this. Ah, if you look online. It says that condom use is something like 90% effective if perfectly used or something like that 90 Maybe not if well.
[47:02] Keith: What does that even mean it's got to be more than 90% because even if you had sex every day for a month. What's the pregnancy chance.
[47:09] Mike: No no, that's right, it's it's 90% versus so so 0% would be if you didn't use anything so yes, of course the pregnancy risk is not 100% you're not the woman is not always going to get pregnant but the argument is that the condoms are it's either 90 or in the low 90 s it's not 99.9 but but the problem that I have with that is okay so if you.
[47:26] Keith: Um, yeah.
[47:29] Mike: If you just do some like basic statistics or probability. You'd say. Okay, so then um, you would expect on average that if if I use no condom with a partner and you use a condom then if you have sex 10 times as many times as I do then we would have the same risk of getting pregnant of of getting somebody pregnant but the problem with that is that.
[47:43] Keith: Right.
[47:49] Mike: Um, yeah, well I mean I'm not sure how many times you've had sex with a condom and not gotten somebody pregnant but I bet it's extraordinarily it's it's it's not it's obvious that 90% is incorrect um because you'd be way out. You know, multiple standard deviations out on the curve because you know people who have sex without a condom. Maybe the pregnancy rate is.
[47:59] Keith: Um, yeah.
[48:08] Keith: Yeah.
[48:08] Mike: 1 in 10 or something you've got sex way way more than 100 times with a condom and so there's obviously ah and it makes sense because it's a barrier that there's some kind of a incorrect use problem here and so and so I don't think like I think that it's it comes down to if people.
[48:18] Keith: Yeah, yeah, okay.
[48:26] Mike: Caution I would say the same thing about people who ah the withdrawal method where you just you know? Well what they do in porn you pull out exactly and it's the same thing that the numbers that are given are kind of.
[48:33] Keith: Pull out. Yeah.
[48:42] Mike: Relatively low in terms of the effectiveness of that. But you have to remember that there's certain certain percentage of men that are going to either choose to or to ignore the fact that they're close to nutting or they just are early ejaculators or something and so you have to consider those people if you're not one of those people then you probably will be able to pull out in time or you will.
[48:51] Keith: Right.
[49:00] Keith: Right.
[49:02] Mike: You will be able to pull it in time and not have this problem and I personally have spoken with so actually a few men who like did this for many years and never got had a pregnancy. So yeah, so all all these things are like the the stats that give her a little weird.
[49:09] Keith: Bright off.
[49:15] Keith: Right? Yep, okay I'm going to move on. Do girls get frustrated when a guy can't thrust consistently. This is almost a callback to couple topics ago. So I a 24 year old male have been dating this girl 27 year old female for about two months now and I've been having problems with being able to last during sex. She's always big on doggy or prone and is want to throw it back. The problem is throw it back. Must mean she's pushing back into him. The problem is.
[49:43] Mike: Yes, like.
[49:46] Keith: I find myself pulling out or pushing her ways. So I don't come right when I'm doing good she Moans or says something and the sensation gets me gets to me and I quit Okay think that means he's going to come so he stops the other night she was riding and I asked her to hold on a second and she yells just fuck me. She's even playfully mentioned how her ex was relentless and dude was like a rabbit brutal. Um, guessing girls don't like stop and go any Advice. So.
[50:10] Mike: That's probably right.
[50:13] Keith: Yeah, I'm sure that is right? Ah I'm not sure what this guy can do how much how disappointed is the average woman when the man comes and she. Was maybe you know 80% of the way to orgasm and now is not going to be able to make it.
[50:33] Mike: I Think it depends on whether on there. There are a number of factors I think it depends on how comfortable she is with doing something after his orgasm to finish herself whether it's herself doing it or him. Yeah, whether he's willing to do something and then there's that whole topic there.
[50:43] Keith: Yeah, or or him.
[50:52] Mike: But the I think that if she was 80% of the way then that's probably pretty frustrating for most women. Um I I however, think that ah in most cases when this is going on the woman is not close and the reason why is because ah I mean the average. The length of the average sex act is surprisingly short. It's like 5 minutes or something. Um, maybe you like that. There's some data around this and yeah I mean so in that the percentage of women who can orgasm from a guy doing something to them for them for 5 minutes it doesn't involve a bio vibrator is extremely low.
[51:09] Keith: Um, yeah.
[51:25] Mike: It's really unusual. A woman can get herself off that quickly if she's sort of focused on herself. So usually it's that's not what's going to be happening here. It's just going to be like it's gonna be this annoying thing where it's like oh you know this guy. He's just getting himself off and he's.
[51:31] Keith: Right? ah.
[51:43] Mike: There's all these he's going through this whole mental process and she's like hasn't even she's not even that excited yet I think that's usually what's going on here.
[51:48] Keith: Yeah I think so too just for the sake of a thought exercise. Can you imagine if this was reversed if it was fairly common for you to be having sex with a woman and then.
[51:57] Mike: Her.
[52:06] Keith: Right? before you're going to come. She says like oh I'm done by.
[52:09] Mike: Well wouldn't be that it would be that you hang on. It would be that you it takes and this is I mean for me, it takes me a little longer to to nut right? So let's let's say it. Let's say it takes me 15 minutes um so I know it's going to take 15 minutes we start having sex.
[52:18] Keith: Okay.
[52:25] Mike: And after 3 minutes she's like stop and and oh it's importantly, she would um, she's not interested after she comes so and for 3 minutes she says stop. So I have to stop or whatever. She's on top. She has to stop.
[52:39] Keith: Um, yeah.
[52:40] Mike: And then we go into the sort and of course that's going to elongate the 15 minutes that it would take me to say 25 minutes because there's an arousal decline that happens when she says to stop and then after like 6 minutes she comes and then the and then I have to go beat off in the bathroom that would be terrible.
[52:47] Keith: Um, yeah.
[52:54] Keith: Right.
[52:56] Mike: Even if even if I wasn't 80% of the way there the whole the whole experience would be just kind of shitty. Yeah I think I think it's ameliorated for women by the fact that like in most cases women don't care about sex as much so it's like they don't.
[53:01] Keith: Yeah I've had. Yeah I think most women yeah this situation where woman is 80% there is sort of a false.. It's like a straw man I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's it's unusual.
[53:12] Mike: Right.
[53:20] Mike: Um, I actually think that the more common thing to irritate women is okay, first of all, yes, I'm sure there are women I know there are women in this situation where they are 50% 70% whatever aroused and the guy is doing this and it's annoying for them and they want to get off but I actually think what's more common for a woman. Is to be in the conundrum of the guy is trying to get her off first and and she's just it's just not going to happen. Um, because yeah, either fake or they have to like do the hey you know why don't why don't we just make this about you tonight or whatever she has to do that and so it puts her in this kind of weird I actually think.
[53:41] Keith: Right? This is where they fake orgasms.
[53:49] Keith: And right right.
[53:54] Mike: It's it's complicated because yeah I think that's more common and it's you know it's Interesting. We talked a few episodes ago about these couples where they have where the woman wears something. It's like they they have um, free use sort of. But the woman like say wears a certain hair tie to indicate that she is up for sex that day and so then the guy knows he should you know and I actually think that's ah, an interesting idea. Um, you could also imagine a woman because my impression although I've never gotten like a detailed answer from this on this from a woman is that women know pretty early in the sex Act. Whether.
[54:14] Keith: So yep.
[54:30] Keith: So yeah I think that's right, yeah.
[54:31] Mike: They're going to be able to orgasm or not like whether they're it's good. It's going to happen, especially a woman with a little more experience. It would be interesting if they just had a way and again like a nonverbal way to just indicate that to the guy like you could imagine. They're wearing a hair tie that indicates. They're available that day and then the hair tie. Also that's like.
[54:39] Keith: Um, yeah.
[54:46] Keith: It's like a mood ring.
[54:48] Mike: It It reminds me of the thing that that maybe apocryphal that gay guys would do ah you know what I'm talking about like where they would wear certain handkerchiefs or something in bars to indicate like what they were into so you know you'd wear a certain thing to indicate that you're a bottom or a top or blah blah Blah Yeah, you could ah but this one yeah you know it would actually probably.
[54:59] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[55:04] Mike: Enhance relationships for women to indicate that right upfront because then the guy knows and it's really not awkward then it's like oh should I perform oral in her should I try to you know, figure out how many fingers I'm going to put in there or should I just like do whatever I want basically and just have fun.
[55:10] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean I think it takes a little bit of priming the pump before a woman knows whether it's going to be an a day or a b day but you know it.
[55:23] Mike: Do you think I mean I do you have any like actual have you discussed this with a woman or you have any believe reason for that belief. Yeah I don't either. Yeah, we should.
[55:30] Keith: I don't know we should ask we should ask Allie that she would she would give an honest answer to that. Ah, it might be yeah um.
[55:38] Mike: I'm not I have a feeling that for Allie it might always be an a day.
[55:45] Keith: Ah, this does remind me of like the worst possible thing a woman can hear during sex which is of course. Ah no, it's I'm not going to stop until you come and.
[55:47] Mike: Yeah, your plusy stinks. Oh right.
[55:58] Keith: It's like oh no now I either have to like embarrass him and tell him it's not happening or we're going to be here for hours while he like fumbles around.
[56:04] Mike: A way or it's like yeah, he's he's he's well you mean you? yeah you encounter that sometimes whether it's in porn or descriptions of real life. He's he's on top of her thrusting in and out and he says something like that. He's like oh I'm gonna I'll come right? after you do baby and she's like now what now? what do I do.
[56:18] Keith: Yeah, oh God Yeah yeah, yeah, like yeah her choices are suffer the physical damage that that woman a couple posts ago mentioned or well yeah, and even in that case like it's not like she's going to come after like hour two ticks by.
[56:34] Mike: Or fake. Ah.
[56:38] Keith: It's just going to be.
[56:39] Mike: Yeah, what do you? How would you if I was a woman How would I respond I guess I mean you could fake The thing is that not faking if he's being honest that he's just going to keep going then he'll keep going until he is physically exhausted because you're not going to climax So then your choices are yeah or or you have to have the conversation. Um, and.
[56:48] Keith: Right? Yeah, there's a game theory. Yeah.
[56:57] Mike: I could see the woman not wanting to do that because the guy is going to be hurt and upset and it's like Wow I had sex with him tonight I wanted him to be happy and now this is terrible. Yeah, guys should never ever say that to a woman.
[57:03] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, well they should never have the the sort of confusion about how sex works to think that saying that. Yeah I mean if if somebody's saying that they're already behind the aid ball.
[57:20] Mike: But by the way so speaking of these topics that like these things we've learned not to do in sex. So we've also learned ah that doing an MMF threesome is risky because.
[57:31] Keith: Bad idea.
[57:35] Mike: Yeah, because if you well sorry um mmf meaning the 2 men played together interact because the woman has a high chance. The woman who's in a couple with whichever a guy has a high chance of then being unattracted to the guy afterward because she just watched him f sex with a man the um, the interview I did last week about polyamory. She.
[57:47] Keith: Right.
[57:54] Mike: Was shocked or surprised by that. Did you do you remember that part of the interview I mean do you like does that it makes me wonder like if like what's going on there like because it's it makes sense to me that would be an issue.
[57:56] Keith: Um, yeah I do.
[58:02] Keith: I Don't know I mean it does make sense to I mean Well first of all I think we've paid a little bit more mind to these various topics than the average person and so. If She was surprised but if you were to explain to her the sort of common dynamic that arises which is I know.
[58:20] Mike: I did she She basically said oh no, you know I find people in my community find it hot when the guy interacts with another guy and I was like really because that it seems threatening it seems jealousy provoking but threatening I mean it's like oh you might be Gay. You're the. Tells me something very different about you sexually And also you're not very masculine now.
[58:42] Keith: Viewing right? as a woman seeing your sexual partner behave in a submissive or less alpha more beta way is just sort of obviously risky. It's true that a high minded woman might. Be able to absorb that and not change her sort of monkey brain lizard brain opinion of her partner at all. It's possible. But I think you're rolling the dice there and if it's a 2 or higher. It's going to have some non-zero impact forevermore.
[59:04] Mike: Right.
[59:13] Mike: You know the thing about it is I would find it my recommendation to people that are I was going to say recruiting for polyamory but that's that's the wrong word but people who are um, exposed giving an exposition of the lifestyle. My recommendation would be for them to. Be more honest about this I mean it makes more sense to me that it would bother you but that you have some way of coping or that you have some things you think about as you you talk about it later that would make sense to me. It's like yeah, look it inherently bothered me just in the way that like look if I did an MMM fm threesome with my partner and I watched another man ejaculate in her.
[59:35] Keith: Um, yeah.
[59:50] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[59:50] Mike: Vagina that would bother me and I might learn to overcome that or cope with it in a way that it still makes the activity a net positive for me but saying it didn't bother me at all is crazy. Of course it does because my lizard brain is thinking. Oh now I'm going to have to raise another man's child.
[59:59] Keith: Yeah, bright. Right? Yeah, some good techniques for getting over the standard obvious jealousy stuff would be much more useful content than pretending that they don't experience human emotions.
[01:00:04] Mike: Like I'm I'm watching her get impregnated by another guy like that's really bothersome.
[01:00:12] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[01:00:18] Mike: Right? It's like look like the first five times I did this it did bother me and then I realized I had a kink for it and bottle and that's believable to me I mean I think it's really unusual that people overcome things like that.
[01:00:24] Keith: Yeah, or I'm I'm willing I'm willing to tolerate that downside in exchange for the upside which is you know increased promiscuity and more interesting sex.
[01:00:34] Mike: Which then of course makes me wonder like why? What is it? What happens to a woman to make because women already have so much access to promiscuity and free love and so forth like yeah, what's going on in the brain of a woman is it that she has a brain that's more masculine So she's maybe.
[01:00:43] Keith: Um, yeah.
[01:00:53] Mike: Yeah I Just don't know like toward like toward like kind of the Trans kind of thing where it's a more masculine hormones or just like that behavior or is something happened their past or is there something I don't understand about Humanity humanity. Yeah.
[01:00:59] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, hopefully we'll get a guest someday that can set us straight on this. But for now that'll do it for episode one zero seven of your mileage may vary. You can reach us at y mmvpod on Twitter or at ymmvpodatgmil.com that's.
[01:01:10] Mike: Yes.
[01:01:22] Keith: Also the place to ask us questions if you give us feedback we will pay you $10 no questions asked just give us your venmo or paypal or what's the other one cash app or however, you'd like us to pay you and if you ask us a question. Let us know if you don't want us to use it on the show. We appreciate you giving us the benefit of the doubt. And make ake through an entire episode and we hope to catch you next time on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 107: Dentists Detecting Oral, Triple Protection, Thrusting Consistency, Premature Arrival

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