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Episode 109: Glory Hole Philosophers, Threesome Trouble, Partial Oral Choices, Condom Pointlessness

Team YMMV | 3-16-2023 | 1:05:44

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Threesome trouble stories are our bread and butter, and this episode is no exception. We have both an MMF and an MFF tale of woe to bring to you. Then there's this question about how much less pleasure men get from sex when wearing a condom. Keith says it's "a lot worse." Women don't care that much about PIV sex in many instances anyway, so what's even the point?

But look I don't want to bury the lede too much here. We discussed just how much money it would take in various instances for Keith to be willing to engage in gay sex. It's pretty expensive, but there's a wide range depending on exactly what he has to do. Maybe one of our listeners/benefactors will step up to the plate and make it happen?

We discuss whether a woman should prefer giving the first 90 percent of a blowjob or the last 10 percent. It's honestly not clear.

And a word on glory holes. I've never rightly seen someone using one in person. For me they operate more as a sort of philosophical entity, useful for distinguishing what exactly you'd be willing to do, when and to whom. And, what level of certainty you'd require. Listeners should carefully consider their own preferences when listening to our discussion points here. How much certainty would you really need regarding who is on the other side of the glory hole?

And, a man has never received oral sex. What exactly is he missing out on?

To see the coconut story discussed at the beginning of the episode (if you dare/must):

https://ymmv.me/109/coconut

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/109/threesome

https://ymmv.me/109/mfm

https://ymmv.me/109/condom

https://ymmv.me/109/bj

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith I've collated a pretty long list of sexy topics to get to today. We'll see how far we get. But for sure we'll cover yet another threesome disaster just how bad is sex with a condom anyway. A man who has never had a blowjob and more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike Mike did you have any money in Silicon Valley bank
  • [00:27] Mike: No not I My my money is well protected.
  • [00:32] Keith: I mean I'm not sure it was clear that if it were at that bank. It wasn't well protected.
  • [00:40] Mike: Ah, that that's true and people have benefited well it depends on how much money you have someone like me, you know you could have big enough accounts that they could suffer losses because the fdi I see insurance is only up to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars but in fact, the government once again, stripped that's apparently yeah, so that there's.
  • [00:49] Keith: No false. It's up to infinity dollars. Apparently.
  • [00:57] Mike: There's no ah, no failure to to large for the government or small something like that.
  • [01:03] Keith: Yeah, all right? Well I'm I'm relieved Although even if you did have money in there. You would have been made true so it doesn't matter. Um, we talked last week about random things that I tried masturbating with I mentioned peanut butter. And I can't remember if I mentioned any other items but it reminded me of this famous Reddit post about somebody posting or somebody trying to masturbate using an object and I and I I found it. It was it was a coconut. Do. You remember this? It was all the way back in 2017 and yeah, okay, it's ah, pretty horrifying. Ah the way the story sort of builds and and reaches its climaxes.
  • [01:43] Mike: I have some memory of it. Yes I.
  • [01:57] Keith: it's it's impressive there's a reason why this was the this is the number one today I fucked up of the year in 2017 on Reddit so ah, I'm just going to read because I'm guessing a lot of our listeners are not familiar with this and for those who are it'll be nice refresher. But if you're ah, easily. If your stomach turns easily you might want to what to skip skip forward a bit this person says anyway around 8 years back I lived in Northern Mozambique a coastal southern african country with quite a warm climate my mother at the time was going through a health nut phase and only buying food. She deemed healthy enough one of these was coconuts. She would buy several coconuts a week to use in food.
  • [02:25] Mike: No none.
  • [02:36] Keith: To use in food from the local market anyway, being a hoary horny teenager I fapped in regular intervals. Unfortunately there are some severely stressful examinations coming up for me and as such my fapping reached a higher peak than usual and I was feeling pretty sexually frustrated one day I hear that my mother is going to be out for pretty much the entire afternoon. Horny me decides that it would be a fantastic idea to fuck a coconut honestly to this day I can't fathom why I thought that would be a good idea but my train of thought back then was clearly somewhat clogged I end up grabbing the coconut drill. What is a coconut drill. Mike.
  • [03:07] Mike: I just think it's a drill to open up. You know, put a hole in a coke and I think I think I've used one or seen one in use in Hawaii you know to get the milk out.
  • [03:13] Keith: Okay, yeah I got it all right? He says and through twenty ish minutes of of concerted effort end up creating a hole large enough for me to stick my porkker into I decided requires some lube and grab the nearest slippery thing some butter before shoving it into the coconut followed shortly by my meat. Fuck the coconut and it actually feels pretty damn good. So I blow my load show up the coconut under my bed and continue about my day I wish is it because there's some sort of meatiness inside the coconut that feels good to slide against.
  • [03:45] Mike: I Would think it wouldn't feel good to be honest I would think it would be a little too rough. Yeah so but he's claiming. It's good all right? Oh this could be a little of a this could be foreshadowing. Maybe it was like moldy or rotten on the inside is that where we're going.
  • [03:48] Keith: Same yeah, the the the Ram would be the rim would be too rigid and.
  • [03:59] Keith: Well yeah I mean I'm obliged to continue at this point but but the story is about to take a turn for the words for the next week the coconut is my savior. Whatever I want to get off I simply take it out and fuck it in its delightfully tight hole made better each time by accumulating volumes of my.
  • [04:06] Mike: Transition. How now.
  • [04:19] Keith: Semen and butter acting as a lubricant. It's heaven now before I continue I Best mentioned that at the time our area was experiencing quite humid Muggy weather which exacerbated an already existing fly problem. Okay, this is the part where you should definitely fast forward.
  • [04:30] Mike: Oh.
  • [04:35] Keith: Disgustingly fat bloated flies were commonly found around our house and the exterminators couldn't really do anything because it was a localized area problem that would go away with that would quote go away in the winter about a week and a bit after the initial coconut fuck I had been using it pretty much every day since then I begin to notice a few more flies than usual as well as an odd. Unpleasant smell about my room must be the coconut right? So I decide that I'll fuck it once more before I throw it out and get a new one worst mistake I've ever made you see the reason for the increased number of flies was that the coconut was evidently in hindsight a near perfect place to lay eggs. Penetrate the coconut one last time I begin to feel a strange wriggling sensation puzzled I pull my cock out to discover that it is covered and rotted and moldy butter and semen and and semen and teeming with tiny fucking maggots they were wriggling all over my dick head and so were even trying to force their way up into my eurethra. Wish our listeners could see mike space here I screamed and threw the cocon out against the wall which made the situation worse by spilling the contents hours of vigorous cock scrubbing vomiting and cleaning the remnets were spent neglecting reflecting on what the fuck I was doing with my life all right? That's a good place to stop. So I yeah I guess I just don't understand.
  • [05:32] Mike: Um, yes, not good.
  • [05:44] Mike: Really.
  • [05:48] Keith: Why it felt good.
  • [05:50] Mike: Well I mean I think that the rotting contents probably became This is yeah this reminds me of like I think we've encountered a topic before where a guy particularly enjoyed anal sex but it was because the woman she was. It wasn't empty. There was like stuff in there. Yeah.
  • [06:05] Keith: Right? Yeah, he liked fucking her when she had goop in there. Yeah right.
  • [06:09] Mike: So well he maybe in retrospect realized that and that's yeah, unfortunately if you can't tell exactly what's there. It might feel good until you and I mean honestly even like the interior of a person's body is kind of gross when you really think about it Objectively, you know? so.
  • [06:23] Keith: Yeah.
  • [06:25] Mike: Generally the things you fuck aren't great. Your hand actually is probably the least gross thing you ever fuck. Yeah.
  • [06:31] Keith: Ah, that might be true I mean it's certainly the driest or the the least mystery moistness.
  • [06:37] Mike: Exactly I mean if you even if it's lubricated you. You know it's something that's designed as a lubricant. Maybe some kind of moisturizer. Yeah.
  • [06:43] Keith: Yeah, all right? Well I just wanted to cover that because I got some feedback from a couple friends of this show saying that me fucking peanut butter as a young teen was disgusting and they couldn't believe it and I I mean I agree it's disgusting.
  • [06:57] Mike: It is yeah.
  • [07:02] Keith: I disagree that it was totally bizarre to to try I feel like people try various things as they're learning. They're like how to masturbate.
  • [07:14] Mike: I think that people it's generally common knowledge of the getting peanut butter into your pubic hair like say peanut butter chocolate things that like are difficult to get out could make you rip out your puy so that was actually where my mind went is just like oh you're going to wind up with some kind of a um forty year old virgin situation. You know, ripping out a bunch of hair so that yeah.
  • [07:18] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [07:30] Keith: Right.
  • [07:31] Mike: Was and and also it's like it's hard for me. It was hard for me to see how that could be enjoyable. You know having a fruit or something like that is more more understandable I think.
  • [07:40] Keith: I thought the viscosity of the peanut butter could provide an interesting texture on my shaft. It doesn't it doesn't it's too thick. Thank you Mike at least somebody appreciates the the science I did as ah as a young man.
  • [07:44] Mike: I Hear you I understand I think I think people should applaud your honesty on this. So yeah, no.
  • [07:58] Keith: All right? Ah, what is this sex toys ah endorsement contract. We might be wheedling our way into.
  • [08:02] Mike: Okay, well I mean yeah, so there's a company called bed bible that we've um, contributed a little bit of content. They they like our show. Ah, we've contributed a little bit of content to their website and um they have offered us because they know we have a popular.
  • [08:07] Keith: A half.
  • [08:20] Mike: Sex and relationships podcast they've offered to send us now. Of course the compensation would simply be the sex toys themselves but sex toys to test and then talk about on the podcast. You know if we want now. Ah they want to know from us.
  • [08:26] Keith: Um.
  • [08:38] Mike: What kinds of products we want to review which is well. It's just an interesting question generally I thought my first thought when I got this email was oh this could actually be beneficial for Keith because you could sort of use that I feel like this could be something that would intrigue a yeah lovely young lady as you're courting her like the fact that you.
  • [08:39] Keith: My boy.
  • [08:58] Mike: You're such a legit sex guy that you have these sex toys and it's like look they be new. They'd be new so you could get a new one. You could get of course because the whole idea is you're just trying it out but but don't you think there could be a woman who's maybe but I think intrigued genuinely intrigued is like look you're trying out the latest sex Paraphernalia here.
  • [09:05] Keith: In the packaging. Ah.
  • [09:14] Keith: Um, yeah yeah I mean first of all I'm not really interested and I'm I'm looking at their website here and there's a lot of sleeves and.
  • [09:17] Mike: So I'm I'm thinking that toys for women is what we might want to ask for I don't know what your thought is.
  • [09:29] Mike: You don't want that.
  • [09:29] Keith: Suction devices for men which I don't know intellectually I might want to try once but I don't want my masturbation routine to get substantially more complicated I like the simplicity that I have right now.
  • [09:36] Mike: Well, that's the point. Okay, well I mean the whole point is to we could say No Thank you. We don't want to test out stuff. But it's hard for me to say no to free merchandise. Noka.
  • [09:52] Keith: No, no, no, no, no right? No I'm interested in trying you know a few times enough enough to form an opinion about it. But yeah I think the female toys. Ah yeah I think I could. Serve as a person who can help try both.
  • [10:07] Mike: Ok, so we could we could probably just tell them we were. We're broadly interested I think I mean obviously I would love to get like aibbian but that's probably going to be too expensive I think those are like between five hundred and a thousand dollars they're probably not going to ship that to us. It's going to be on the simpler side but I bet we'll get like.
  • [10:18] Keith: Right.
  • [10:23] Mike: These things will be like $50 items the other question is like how do you have it shipped to you is it like do you have it. You know you just give them your address. Do you will have to walk to figure that off the air. How how we're going to actually communicate you know, get get this this merchandise from them. Um.
  • [10:28] Keith: Yeah, right? Yeah, might need a po box.
  • [10:39] Mike: Yeah, it's going to be just purely sex stuff. So by the way Keith are are we going to discuss the guy who offered you two thousand five hundred dollars to blow a man.
  • [10:40] Keith: Yeah, yeah, all right.
  • [10:51] Keith: Ah, ok, no, we could talk about it Spy I don't like.
  • [10:52] Mike: I Mean you don't want to talk about him because because he he keeps emailing us so he I think is you know.
  • [11:02] Keith: And I've simulated this conversation in my mind a few different ways that it always ends at a place that I don't love so I don't know I Let let's see if doing it in real life I can I could fit eggle it.
  • [11:10] Mike: Okay, so I want to so for our listeners we do. We. Do you know as the podcast has gone on. We we get more and more feedback and we do have this gentleman who takes a real interest in us. He for example, warned Keith away from ketamine and then like the next day I read about. Ketaminees you said I read something about like how ketamine super safe. So it's like who knows ah do your own research on ketamine but ah this this gentleman had heard that Keith is very transactional in certain ways in certain ways and willing to consider doing things that maybe other people wouldn't.
  • [11:39] Keith: Are.
  • [11:46] Mike: If he felt like the price was right? So for example, Keith would for like say $10000000 like there are a lot of things Keith would do and Keith feels that I'm representing correctly that most people would do those things they might just grandstand that they wouldn't but then when the money was in a briefcase placed in front of them. They would do them.
  • [11:54] Keith: Right? So right? like if if somebody offered me $10000000 I would do basically any sexual thing like I don't $10000000
  • [12:04] Mike: Right? And this goes on. for example, for example there are these various philosophical conundra that are actually quite easy for Keith like for example, people will say if there was a button that you had to push and when you push the button you get $10000 but someone in the world gets killed keys like I would push the button a lot right? because you you wouldn't.
  • [12:22] Keith: Yeah I I would add a 0 or maybe two Zeros onto that but 10000 it actually starts getting a little bit close because the value of an arbitrary life. Well yeah, ah the effective altruists I think they say the cost to.
  • [12:23] Mike: Wouldn't matter that much.
  • [12:28] Mike: I Thought you said you do have okay fine. We don't need to debate that. But.
  • [12:39] Keith: You know, basically guarantee that you save a life is something between five and ten thousand dollars right now. So a $10000 button is is sort of on the the right order of magnitude where you should consider not pressing it. Um I know.
  • [12:52] Mike: It's complicated to know what saving a life means I mean I I was speaking with a 85 year old man today and I mean he's what would saving his life mean he's going to be dead soon. But let's set that aside, it's not that interesting the ah. Cash for sex is more interesting. So this this gentleman heard that you were interested and I I will Mark what he said is credible. He said that he's got enough cash to on your word of honor venmo you two thousand five hundred dollars and you just have to say say that you gave a blowjob to a man.
  • [13:13] Keith: Yeah.
  • [13:21] Mike: And then you can keep the money and I actually think he's telling the truth people might say oh who has that kind of money I think this guy does actually like it. He sounded like a a firm and strong gentleman. He's not requiring that you give him oral sex just some man and so you and I started discussing it and it sounded like.
  • [13:31] Keith: yeah yeah I would I would I would I don't know why you're using this language about like saying I could and all this stuff like yeah like I if this sort of thing were to happen I would actually do it now. $2500 isn't enough. But.
  • [13:47] Mike: Well hang on. Let's let's let's.
  • [13:49] Keith: Yeah, I'm not interested in like in defrauding our listeners and like trying to do a thing like yeah and and by by speaking in that manner you're like introducing that is as a thing that yet shouldn't be.
  • [13:59] Mike: I know I'm doing that because I think the vast majority of people when hearing this would think oh just lie to him and take the money but but they wouldn't understand that Keith won't do that I wouldn't do that either. We we have enough money that we don't need to behave like that. We're unusual gentlemen. Ah we we have our own code of honor and we're not going to do that. So.
  • [14:11] Keith: Right.
  • [14:17] Mike: Okay, so so is there any so I thought about it and I thought and we discussed this that I think for that amount of money and actually honestly less than that if I could give a hand job through a glory hole and that's important. So I don't have to see the man I think I would do that for less than $2500 just because.
  • [14:28] Keith: Right? yeah.
  • [14:34] Mike: Might even do it for free once just out of curiosity because it would almost be like jerking off a horse like I don't I wouldn't see the guy at all now and there has to be no way for him to get to me that's important to can't know who I am is yeah.
  • [14:35] Keith: Um, right.
  • [14:41] Keith: Right s to be. It has to be safe, clean and pretty and those things need to be guaranteed right? like 1 of the issues with for example, giving a blowjob to a random man is there's all kinds of risks. There's like disease risk there's he could like flip out in some way risk. There's.
  • [14:47] Mike: Right.
  • [14:57] Mike: Yes.
  • [15:00] Keith: Yeah, so yeah, the the details here matter.
  • [15:02] Mike: Right? And I I would want to have the option to wear a glove I might not because I I'm not like it's like at the dentist my dental hygienist wears gloves point the actual dentist doesn't and I was kind of respect that he just washes his hands carefully he knows if he has sores on his hands like he's been doing it for 30 years like I'm sure he hasn't gotten you know leprosy or anything. So I mean I'd have to think about that said, ok, but.
  • [15:12] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [15:15] Keith: Right.
  • [15:22] Mike: But here we're talking about where I mean if you're giving a blow I guess it could be through a glory hole I think that the problem I would have is the when it goes in my mouth. That's when like the price would go way up and I think for you there was like it also so you didn't like that and also for you. It was like the people knowing you did it.
  • [15:31] Keith: Um, ah right.
  • [15:38] Keith: Right.
  • [15:39] Mike: And then having to like not be the glory hole so you have to actually see that there's a man there grunting and groaning and and blowing his load because of what you're doing all these things raise the price I was worried by the way about the psychological aftermath of this. This is 1 reason I would actually generally be worried that I couldn't erase it from my brain I think you were not worried about that. You thought.
  • [15:43] Keith: Right.
  • [15:57] Keith: Yeah I think I could and I don't I don't worry about the downside risk of like having experienced this, you know somewhat unusual thing for a heterosexual man to experience I Don't don't think it would affect me but you know and.
  • [15:58] Mike: You could erase it from your brain but just really funny.
  • [16:11] Mike: Interesting. Okay, that is a little bit of a superpower I think they're in another life. You could have been like a hitman for the the mafia right? I mean you're just you just shoot the guy and just yeah, just right? Okay, so what do you think? the price would be for.
  • [16:16] Keith: And part of it is. That's what the money's for.
  • [16:22] Keith: Yeah, just moved on without caring. Yeah.
  • [16:30] Keith: Right here we go.
  • [16:31] Mike: Should be for the full on the blow where he sees you and let's start with you have to swallow the nut too. Yeah, it's a high much higher than 2500 oh my lord.
  • [16:37] Keith: Oh man I mean we were yeah, we're into 7 figures for that I think maybe maybe mid six man I mean how bad can swallowing semen be it can't be that bad.
  • [16:52] Mike: If you if you erase this psychological dimension speaking purely like biologically and like in terms of medical risk I think it's actually not that bad if you don't have any psychological I would have grave psychological concerns about that like trying to fall asleep like.
  • [16:57] Keith: Yeah, right.
  • [17:08] Mike: A year later and it coming into my head and she be like fuck. What's wrong with me. You know that kind of stuff nothing. There's anything wrong with somebody wants to do it I just don't yeah I just don't want to do it and I hear you I'm just saying like I'm just saying no shame to people that if you enjoy doing it. That's totally fine. It's just not my bag.
  • [17:10] Keith: He has it rope rope big to the back of your throat. Well I don't want to do it either. But I like money.
  • [17:26] Mike: Okay, so that's a really high is is there something you said that there was something if you could get the guy up to 50000 that you think you might do trying to negotiate it. You're not sure you okay offhand you can't think of something that you would do for 50 or 25 maybe
  • [17:32] Keith: Yeah I don't remember do you remember I mean I can go back to our chat Logs to see.
  • [17:43] Keith: Um, I I mean it really depends it really depends on the who and what right like if if I know like if I could do this in a holodeck then.
  • [17:45] Mike: Trying to see if this guy can get any juice here. Okay, we get guy.
  • [17:58] Keith: It would take a lot less I mean the reason why the the number is so high is um, there's some risk I Guess yeah, right? and and right and he's huh Oh giving somebody.
  • [18:03] Mike: Well let's say you hire a male escort which I mean you're hiring the person and it's with a condom so there's no swallowing of the Nud we hired him I mean like I mean you? yeah.
  • [18:18] Keith: Giving somebody a blowjob wearing a condom I think I might boy would I do that for $50000 I think I would they need to be like a reasonable person and like okay yeah.
  • [18:25] Mike: Ok, so that's let's let's stop here and just you get to pick him and it could be. It could be an escort. So it's not somebody you would ever see that could be part of your deal with him is he He is contractually he he'll have to.
  • [18:35] Keith: Right.
  • [18:40] Mike: Something terrible happens or whatever I mean he's agree. He doesn't care. He just wants his pay right? He's going to get his five hundred bucks or whatever you know.
  • [18:40] Keith: Right? And I right and I know there's a that. There's a condom involved here but I would probably still want them to take an S Std test you know so we're we're assuming various cleanliness and safety aspects. But yeah.
  • [18:49] Mike: Um, okay, ok, well, let's see if our our emailer is willing to come up in price I'm I'm confident. We'll get another email from him. Ah, and.
  • [19:00] Keith: Ah, we could start a patreon for this.
  • [19:04] Mike: That was I thought about that I mean at 2500 I was thinking. That's not that much money like I might chip in but we'll we'll have to see where worry comes up to. Okay, yeah.
  • [19:07] Keith: Right? I'm not I'm not committing to this by the way I need to I need to I would need to think about this and you know.
  • [19:18] Mike: No, he's not going to like that sound of that. But okay, let's see what let's see what comes back? of course.
  • [19:22] Keith: I know I know he's not you know I would refund the money you know like let's say I get into the room on the day of and you know there's this man there with a Condo bond and he's like all right, Let's go. Um.
  • [19:34] Mike: Remember you don't have to like there's no video. It's all on your honor. So it's just you know he he believes you tell the truth I do too actually um, you probably get more money if there was a video but anyway okay so related question I saw this video on Tiktok. My new social media friend.
  • [19:36] Keith: No I know. But yeah.
  • [19:49] Keith: Hold on wait hold on hold on. But before we go I know the thing you're going to go on to here before we get to that how much damage. Do you think it being well known that like I'm the guy that gave somebody a blowjob for $50000 would do like in my mind.
  • [19:51] Mike: And yeah, go ahead. Okay, yeah, it's related.
  • [20:06] Mike: Oh.
  • [20:08] Keith: And I think I'm being very clear and coherent about this in my mind you're basically insane not to do something that's uncomfortable for 5 minutes to make 50 grand like I don't care how rich you are like 50 grand is a lot of money.
  • [20:16] Mike: Oh oh oh by the way I think I think there's I think this guy very clearly would negotiate down on the time I think that would that that that meant to me makes sense like you just said 5 I don't know five maybe fifteen minutes and there's a question of like could the guy you know a lot of times in porn guys have to jerk themselves off to nuts. So I don't.
  • [20:33] Keith: Sure we'd have to litigate that.
  • [20:35] Mike: Know about that. Um, but sure Yeah, the the bulk of your point is reasonable and I'll say this like if you did that it would be the best possible marketing for this podcast.
  • [20:47] Keith: Oh my gosh I hadn't thought about that. Ah, what is it? Eddie publicity is good publicity.
  • [20:52] Mike: It might be. It might be negative marketing but it would definitely be be would lose all our listeners immediately. It would it would be surprise it would be surprising to the tmz crowd that somebody somebody did this? Yeah yeah, yeah.
  • [21:03] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that's true, but like yeah like okay, let's say we have a friend who's a little bit Internet Internet famous for a meme he he did something that went viral. Let's not give specifics here.
  • [21:16] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [21:22] Keith: Ah, but let's say I achieve like sort of around that level of notoriety like could it be compromising. Well would it? Yeah I don't care. Yeah, for starters I don't care.
  • [21:26] Mike: Yeah, might be hard to get a job. You don't care. You probably don't care anyway and poly. No I mean honestly honestly if you got rejected for a job for that. You probably have a decent lawsuit at this point given where our culture is you say look what who cares.
  • [21:40] Keith: Um, right? Yeah, they're sex negative. Yeah.
  • [21:43] Mike: Yeah, it's like who cares like this is is this my orientation or my this is just I'm I'm I'm buy whatever like I do whatever I want.
  • [21:46] Keith: I Do think I do think if women knew it could be a big turnoff. You know we've seen we've we've we've read plenty of threesome stories about you know the woman sees the man do something ah sort of effeminate or or submissive toward another man. And they really don't like it and so yeah I mean if I if I had to lance off like 60% of my available dating pool because of this for 50 Grand I Don't think it's worth that. But I'm just thinking out loud here.
  • [22:14] Mike: I think that I think so I know the mmf thing you're worried about so you know this thing where people have a 3 and what 2 men the men interact and the woman gets grossed out here's what I think about that I think I think it it reminds me of that famous Seinfeld episode the the roommate switch where. George comes up with his devious plan for Jerry to switch between dating 1 roommate to her female roommate that she he prefers and basically the whole the whole impetus is to do something that the woman he's dating finds disgusting which is to suggest a threesome in this case in that in that episode. But then the other one is intrigued and I actually think that you would only benefit.
  • [22:41] Keith: Um, this is.
  • [22:53] Mike: And the reason why is yes if you were currently dating somebody. She would have to say oh no more. But then there would be this enormous group of women who would find it intriguing compelling like you would yeah and also ah as you know, honestly even with the podcast at the level it is right now I think you've been the beneficiary of some amount of.
  • [23:12] Keith: Yeah, okay so to rephrase yeah like let's say I had to lance off 60% of my available dating pool but the 40% remaining are suddenly 10 times more interested. Ah yeah.
  • [23:12] Mike: Internet celebrity and and that helped you and and I think it would only increase.
  • [23:22] Mike: Yeah, and they might be freakier now. That being said I don't want to go too hard on this because I feel like our the the guy that we've we're negotiating with here to get his price up may say hey I'm going to get you more sex so you should do it for free or something so what's i' go to so can we move on to the Tiktok thing.
  • [23:38] Keith: The f.
  • [23:41] Mike: Okay, so this is related a video in Tiktok asked a woman would you rather give the first ninety percent of a blowjob or the last ten percent of a blowjo. What do you think? and and what do you think? Well, what do you think? what do you think she said she she thought she was very good at blowjobs.
  • [23:50] Keith: Who ah, how long is this blowjob to so let's call it 10 minutes okay all right 10 minutes is good because then it's it's 9 minutes
  • [24:01] Mike: but but yeah let's let's call it. Let's call it a normal like 10 to 15 minutes
  • [24:07] Keith: versus versus 10 minutes now. The thing is what did I say? no no 9 versus 1 right? Yeah right? Yeah and then presumably yeah I mean this goes without saying. But yeah, the the man's going to come so it's it's the seamen that ah.
  • [24:08] Mike: 1 minute 9 minutes versus 1 minute and sucking down that you said 9 versus time but the end sucking down that's that seamen that's slushy.
  • [24:23] Mike: Yeah, that's the point.
  • [24:26] Keith: You you get to do less work for um I mean first of all I don't really have a feeling for how much precom is generated in that first ninety percent but it's non 0
  • [24:40] Mike: I am given to understand that it is significantly more when I'm being given a blowjob than it is when I'm masturbating ah because when I'm masturbating. It's almost none. Ah, unless I'm unless I'm consuming some really really good content something that was hard this week because Reddit was out.
  • [24:50] Keith: Um, yeah, same.
  • [24:56] Keith: Yeah bummer.
  • [24:58] Mike: Which was very frustrating. Um, but ah, but apparently it's pretty significant when getting a blowjob. Yeah.
  • [25:04] Keith: Okay, all right? But so let's call I mean the volume is probably a hundred to 1 or 10 you know.
  • [25:11] Mike: Yeah, and also the viscosity and and like the precom I think is less strong in terms of its flavoring and so forth. So I think it'd be reasonable to sort of assume that's not a material factor I think it's going to be the effort and this is really anyway, what? what are your thoughts.
  • [25:18] Keith: Right.
  • [25:26] Keith: Yeah I think I'd rather do the first 90%
  • [25:30] Mike: Interesting I so this woman said the first.
  • [25:33] Keith: I don't think a woman cares I don't think a woman like a woman probably prefers that the last 10%
  • [25:40] Mike: See Yeah, it's very hard for me because I um what I want I want women to enjoy the man ejaculating because that fits feel feeds into my fantasy life about sex. But I think you're probably right? if you don't care.
  • [25:49] Keith: Um, this is.
  • [25:57] Mike: Like I want her to be like oh but I feel so connected to him and I enjoy it when he's nutting. But I think probably she's just tired of honestly when I'm giving oral sex a significant percentage of the time by the time she comes like I'm kind of done I'm like ah if she came in like 30 seconds it'd be much better.
  • [26:12] Keith: Right? right? If check with the clock.
  • [26:14] Mike: You know you'd be like oh this is great but like you know, yeah when this has been 10 minutes you're like all right? Yeah, you're sort of losing your arousal. Yeah yeah, you you got a sandwich down there at the Tv I'm watching Tiktok. Yeah.
  • [26:27] Keith: The game's good to start? Yeah, ah I mean I have noticed we've discussed this before but I don't really focus on the the nut scene much in porn certainly less than you but I do watch it occasionally.
  • [26:40] Mike: Yes.
  • [26:44] Keith: And you know a popular thing is he'll pull his dick out of her vagina or out of her mouth and then get ready to come on her in some ways in some way often her face when it is their face. The Porn star. Never seems that excited like you can tell they're acting so they're like pretending to seem excited and they'll do this thing like they they want to keep their eyes closed because they don't want it to get in their eyes but they'll do this thing where they're like kind of trying to keep them open so they're like almost flickering their eyelids and.
  • [27:17] Mike: And they often have those fake eyelashes ritual be destroyed or not I mean they'll just get glued shut.
  • [27:20] Keith: They do? Yeah but you you can tell they're not really excited for the facial they're pretending to be.
  • [27:29] Mike: I Think it's hard. Yeah, it's hard for a woman to enjoy that the facial. So when that when that comes around.
  • [27:36] Keith: I'm sure I mean I can relate to that that seems terrible. Um, but no but I can imagine it and and and my body recoils at the that. That's what that's why I want the the 50 g.
  • [27:41] Mike: You've given yourself a facial.
  • [27:50] Mike: Um, yeah, the 50 I think for thinking of facial Jesus.
  • [27:53] Keith: Ah, well and hos it was fifty g for for a condom anyways, I wouldn't even have to deal with that. Um, yeah I just okay, here's what I'm saying that last 10 percent is terrible. Like if it's in your mouth like you know you have these like ropes of semen hitting the back your throat that seems bad if it's on your face. That's bad. Ah like I I really don't want the semen part and even though the duration is much longer for that first ninety percent it's like whatever like it's uncomfortable. But It's not the length of time I think that makes it bad. It's the it's it's it's the grand finale that makes it bad.
  • [28:31] Mike: It's possible I mean but keep in mind that now you essentially have a thing you do for 1 minute to your partner in the orgasm right? So if you enjoy your partner orgasming then it doesn't take very long. Do it, you get that sort of release. But then yeah, you're you're you're taking the nut. Ah.
  • [28:42] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [28:48] Mike: Yeah I mean it must I mean Women're biologically like having nut pumped into their bodies is kind of like a biological function. So it's probably not as tricky for them.
  • [28:56] Keith: Um, right? Yeah, all right can I move on what do you want to talk about it I mean I tried to masturbate yesterday and I couldn't because Reddit was down.
  • [29:02] Mike: But you want to talk about the Redit outage well Reddit was out. Yeah Reddit was out and I went to chatterbait you didn't what did you do you want to hear what I did first or you want to say you did.
  • [29:15] Keith: Sure you go first.
  • [29:19] Mike: Okay I went to chatterba and I went to the transsexual part of Chatterbait and there were these two I don't know because I was was look Reddit was down I wasn't sure to tell I was like this this isn't supposed to happen I was like it was like you're in the matrix and the matrix is break. Yeah, so.
  • [29:22] Keith: Why.
  • [29:32] Keith: Ah, the up is down right? Cats are friends with dogs say okay.
  • [29:39] Mike: Right? It was really it was a pretty fucked up day honestly. So I went to chatterbait and I was like all right? Well I got to I got to am this up so I got I got I have work to do I got to finish this stuff. So I ah, ah went to the transsexual section and there were 2 people that looked like women and I didn't know so I didn't know which one. Didn't know what their genders were they looked like women so we could call them women but but anyway it turned out they both. They both had penises. Um and what I found was but they both also had breasts and what I found was that because they looked sufficiently female.
  • [30:01] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [30:17] Mike: Wait Yeah they they looked sufficiently female and both at breasts that actually and they they had sex in the doggie style position where you couldn't see the penetration and it was actually pretty good. It was pretty good because I couldn't tell that it was in anal I couldn't see the penis of the receiver.
  • [30:25] Keith: Okay.
  • [30:31] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah I I think some people's gut reaction here would be would be That's gross like I I can't but I've seen enough extremely female presenting transsexuals on the various dating apps.
  • [30:35] Mike: And you know.
  • [30:49] Keith: Like I match with them every once in a while and some of them you know on the first line of their profile say that they're trans or they'll put the trans flag but some of them don't and so it doesn't come up for a minute or you have to really be paying attention to see the one hint that they have in their profile and I just miss it some I mean you know I don't like.
  • [31:00] Mike: You know.
  • [31:07] Keith: Forensically examine. Everyone's profile for 10 minutes before I decide whether to swipe I'm swiping quickly and so anyway yeah I mean there are a lot of people that present as extremely female and so yeah I I can imagine that.
  • [31:18] Mike: So then I 1 one more thing on this I then one of them the one who was penetrating said that she had had her testicles removed so I don't know exactly what that does to the response. Yeah yeah, the shaft was was definitely intact the um, ah.
  • [31:28] Keith: But keeps the shaft.
  • [31:34] Keith: Can you still orgasm when you've had your testicles removed.
  • [31:37] Mike: There was this is the thing is it was hard to tell because the orgasm occurred with the person penetrating the other person so there was no semen but I think yes because of the prostate remains there but I like honestly like it was a little bit of a mystery to me what was going on and I did I wasn't that I was curious but I wasn't like.
  • [31:53] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [31:57] Mike: Erotically interested in finding out I did then because with chatterbat you can get the username of the person and do a search and you can always find because there are all these sites that capture the video ah look Reddit was down this is where I was at so I searched this user's username and I found another video that I thought was very compelling by them.
  • [32:04] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [32:14] Mike: Where they did the same thing and then at the end they turned the person who was penetrating turned to the cameras and and lowered it and it was like you just watched 2 transsexuals fuck basically like like they you know because the presumption was that there was a bunch of people who would oppos you know be opposed to transsexual rights just being like kind of and I was like that's hey fair play you know good.
  • [32:24] Keith: Ah, that's interesting, right? right? Yeah, right? Would you.
  • [32:34] Mike: You got I mean I happen to already know That's what I was looking to look at. But yeah.
  • [32:42] Keith: Seek that out intentionally in the future like was there something better about this.
  • [32:47] Mike: No, it was worse. It was worse but it was all right like it wasn't no no I would much rather I then moved on to something that was hetero and I was just looking for anything but I Ah yeah, the right move is just to go to Pornhub and do some searching. Yeah.
  • [32:55] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [33:01] Keith: I Don't like porn hub the the clips are too short. There's so much garbage. It's yeah I don't I don't love Porn hub. No.
  • [33:11] Mike: There's a there's a a subreddit called orange youtube do you know this one orange Youtube it's basically like Youtube except porn. So it's orange the color scheme of pornhub being orange that unfortunately most of the clips are pretty old but it's sort of compelling and that it's ah.
  • [33:20] Keith: Aha aha.
  • [33:27] Mike: Well, it's more fitting what I like which is more sort of amateur and seeming more like the people like each other and less less professional Anyway, people can check that out. It is you just like ah hot.
  • [33:36] Keith: Yeah, yeah, amateurness I know is a big deal for you? Yeah I just used yeah physically attractive is super super super important to me. Um.
  • [33:46] Mike: Hot. Yes, yes.
  • [33:51] Keith: There's a website called tblop I've mentioned it before TbL o p the big list of porn.com and it's not even used to be better. It's not well-maintained anymore. But ah yeah, they have this.
  • [34:08] Keith: Yeah, they have like lists of sites that have various stuff and ah yesterday I used during the Reddit outage this thing called peholder.com and it basically caches. Um here I'll paste the link in the chat here. So you can see um it catches these things from Reddit.
  • [34:21] Mike: Good.
  • [34:27] Mike: Yes.
  • [34:28] Keith: And so this wasn't bad so you can click one of them and then there's arrows on the left and right that make it pretty quick and easy to scroll through um I'm not sure if there's enough newness there like I think that. Worked once but read its back. So yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, that's just super vanilla. Not very interesting. Um all right. We're more that halfway through it we have it started on the the topics I Promised. So ah, the first one here is another threesome fuck up.
  • [34:47] Mike: Sure, Yeah, yeah, you'll need it to work every so often. Yeah.
  • [35:06] Keith: This one's a little sad but I'm going to read it anyway. Ah, my boyfriend who is a 23 year old male won't even look at me a 23 year old female after a threesome What do I do to fix this. Let me preface this by saying I don't need you to tell me that I fucked up or how wrong I am or etc I just need your help. Boyfriend and I have been dating for some 4 years I love him and he is the light of my life. Nevertheless I've always had this fantasy where I have sex with 2 men at once it was just a fantasy once we were drunk I had told my boyfriend that he didn't say yes, but he didn't say no then on our four year anniversary I managed to convince him that it would be nice to spice things up I sort of talked him into it. I thought it would be fun and I wanted to try it. Yeah, this is not a good start just for his comfort. It was a random guy off of tinder initially the foreplay was great, but then it went downhill from there I imagine like she like coerces him into doing this and then yeah, the next night she's like all right I found someone from tinder because it's just.
  • [35:46] Mike: Ah.
  • [36:00] Keith: So easy for women.
  • [36:02] Mike: I'm imagining that like she finds the guy and the guy's just hiding in the closet and jumps out while they're fucking just jumps in.
  • [36:05] Keith: Yeah, it's the nightmare scenario. We were all just lying on the bed having fun. Oh wait. Sorry just recovered his random guy off tinder initially the foreplay was great but then he went downhill. We were all just lying on the bed having fun but he started crying. Her boyfriend started crying. We all stopped and he stepped outside for a second. He then tried. Again, but when the other guy was having sex with me from behind and my boyfriend was having sex in front of me he stopped and said I can't do this and walked out I stopped immediately got dressed and went home I don't quite understand what she means the the guy was having sex with me from behind my boyfriend was having sex from in front of me. Maybe she was blowing him right? I mean I usually I wouldn't say having sex I would say oral or giving him a blowjob or something but oral sex I guess is a kind of anyway. Yeah I suppose.
  • [36:42] Mike: That's there. Ah, they're in the wobbly h position or ah, the eiffel tower where they can high-five each other. Yeah.
  • [36:56] Mike: She's trying to be femistic.
  • [36:59] Keith: Since then it's been a month and he won't even look at me. He cries every time I'm with him in a sexual way I'm so sorry I did this I never intended to hurt him I just wanted to have some fun I clearly messed up but I can't be without him I Love him so much. How do I fix this please help I'm crying I don't want to lose him. He's the best thing that ever happened to me.
  • [37:00] Mike: Yes.
  • [37:14] Keith: The man of my dreams and I'll never bring this up again. The fantasy was nothing more than a fucked up idea that is dead I'm also very sorry but please help so I want to hear your thoughts here Mike but I'm going to read the first comments. Ah the first one is am I reading this right? He started crying and stepped out for a second and you presumed this catastrophe.
  • [37:23] Mike: Yeah.
  • [37:32] Keith: I'm sorry but I would rate the chances of this relationship surviving in the low single digits the other one the next comment I don't think you could fix this first of all, he never wanted this. You had to convince him to let another guy fuck you. That's bad second it was your anniversary even if he stays it's at least going to remember every year when you celebrate your special day.
  • [37:44] Mike: Since it.
  • [37:49] Keith: Third when he stepped outside crying. You should have ended it right there I don't care if he said let's try again. He was clearly uncomfortable and unhappy with the situation. You should have had the sense to end it instead. You'd wanted your fantasy you fucked up congratulations. Yeah I think those are the right read I mean.
  • [38:03] Mike: I don't know man if I was the third if I was the third guy in this situation and I'm I'm fucking her in the dog and it's going well and the other guy steps out to cry and then she's made me stop like I'd be like I mean to be I mean of course I would because she's withdrawing consent. But.
  • [38:07] Keith: You yes. I know. Yes.
  • [38:20] Mike: I could see her just trying to be polite. She's like look this guy's got a rock hard erection. He wants to finish. She's just being polite right? Yeah, oh well I mean it's It's pretty rough to like it's pretty aggressive for a woman to like.
  • [38:26] Keith: Oh I see that's that that's an interesting way to take this. She could have fed yes but that's a little hard to.
  • [38:39] Mike: Terminate sex I mean it had it. Well actually it's never happened to me. Maybe it's happened to you but I've never actually had a woman do that. It's it seems like an unlike yeah so I think there's there's a there's a reluctance and I mean having sex is already somewhat submissive for the woman. So it's not like.
  • [38:42] Keith: Oh mid Coitis I don't think so no.
  • [38:56] Mike: And this is one of the reasons why consent is so tricky right? It's like you're she's doesn't She's not in exactly a powerful position. So.
  • [39:00] Keith: Yeah, but but she's weighing this guy's temporary discomfort against her boyfriend weeping out in the hallway right.
  • [39:05] Mike: Sure Well, she's not thinking. Yeah I mean but it's not like a chess game. She's not sitting there like processing the different move she could play. She's like just doing it in the moment and made a bad call but I thought the other points that person made were fantastically that he's going to remember it all the time on the anniversary.
  • [39:22] Keith: Right.
  • [39:25] Mike: Ah, that and and this is the thing I mean to me the core here is that like women. There's a certain way. There's a certain value that men place on sex that women have a difficulty understanding women also place a high value on sex but sort of but it's like it's more about a relationship status thing whereas really I think in general.
  • [39:41] Keith: Um, okay.
  • [39:44] Mike: I Think this is true if if even okay if you had a girlfriend if if each time you had a girlfriend you were required to watch her watch a video of her fucking some other guy even if it happens a year ago I think you wouldn't love that I wouldn't love it. It would just be like ah because.
  • [39:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [40:02] Mike: Ah, you have this fantasy in your mind as a man like you're the only one that does that to her. She's she's possessed by you and this just blows that up. So ah yeah I mean I imagine this is a challenge for men who are in relationships with porn stars or strippers Strippers Maybe a little lower level than that. But this is porn star for sure.
  • [40:04] Keith: Yes, definitely.
  • [40:15] Keith: Right.
  • [40:20] Mike: And I don't think women I don't to a woman I think it's sex is a little more mechanical than that they don't realize how like difficult that is and I think it's just biological guys are designed to be careful about the paternity of their children and so if you if you're made. Deeply aware. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to watch another man impregnating your girl, you're like oh that's that's what I'm supposed to do Yeah so you you know it would be difficult to get into a mind state where you're cool with that. Um, and and I.
  • [40:38] Keith: Right? Yeah, it's not good right? yeah.
  • [40:51] Mike: Wonder if you ever really could I think you might just be sort of overriding something in your brain.
  • [40:55] Keith: Yeah I think yeah, this would be a good test for my ability to get over psychological trauma. Um.
  • [41:02] Mike: Well have you have you ever had to witness or been in a position to witness anybody you dated have sex with somebody else either in video or in real life has that ever happened to you.
  • [41:12] Keith: Ah I went on a few dates a couple years ago three years ago gosh was it four years ago now with somebody who was a former porn star and I looked up her content and I found it and I watched I think.
  • [41:20] Mike: Okay, only.
  • [41:28] Keith: 15 seconds and I was like yeah no, this is not I don't want to watch this and I didn't even get to the stuff that I really didn't want to watch it was I think I just didn't want to have that in in my mind. Yeah I mean it's just exactly what you're saying. It's like yeah I'd like to imagine that I'm the one.
  • [41:33] Mike: And what was your reasoning.
  • [41:41] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [41:47] Mike: I Mean what? a what a a lion you would be if if instead you just started beating off to her porn and what a you know? a great man that would be amazing but I and I'm sure there are men out there who because on some level it comes down to confidence if you think hey I'm the best there is.
  • [41:48] Keith: The only one.
  • [42:04] Mike: Maybe that wouldn't bother you figure I mean look if you were Mick Jagger and his prime you just be like look that it doesn't matter like that porn star is nothing compared to me. But I think but even then I think it's just biological. So.
  • [42:16] Keith: Yeah I think so do do you know who Penn Badgely is he was on. Um that show with Blake lively ah shit such gone girl. No no blake lively show. What was it called it was called.
  • [42:21] Mike: Um, no I can search him.
  • [42:31] Mike: He was Dan Humphrey in the CWTeenDramaSeries gossip girl and also in the yeah.
  • [42:32] Keith: Shit that's the one yes and he's in this new Netflix show well season four of this Netflix show called you. He plays a weird serial killer anyway, he apparently didn't want to do sex scenes anymore because he thought it was disrespecting.
  • [42:41] Mike: Yes.
  • [42:51] Keith: His wife. But yeah yeah I Wonder what it's like when you have like a hollywood actor or actress partner and you know there's this new blockbuster that's coming out and you know they have a sex scene in it and even though it's fake like it's probably not great watching I know it's fake.
  • [43:04] Mike: And it's fake. It's fake. But now.
  • [43:09] Keith: But you still don't want. Yeah, you don't want to see your your partner deploying their you know common array of tricks on you know everybody has like a kissing signature. You probably don't want to see that up on the on the big screen with someone else.
  • [43:17] Mike: Sure.
  • [43:25] Mike: Sure I mean I would say that um I would I would say that women I don't think this bothers women as much as it bothers men I think that what it means about your relationship matters a lot to a woman. So ah yeah, like that yeah status.
  • [43:37] Keith: Yeah, your theory your theory is that it just establishes the man as sexually viable if you see him with another prisoner.
  • [43:41] Mike: Yeah.
  • [43:48] Mike: Oh it's not a good thing. It's not that she'd be like jumping up and down about it but she would be irritated because of the ah well yeah, okay, she'd be irritated because it suggests that like you're having sex with other women which which jeopardizes her relationship if she saw you a video of you having sex with someone else ten years ago I think she wouldn't care at all. And they would bother her in the way it might bother a man. Yeah I mean it's like yeah, that's what he does to women. He's powerful. He's a powerhouse he just fucks. Yeah.
  • [44:05] Keith: And huh right? Yeah yeah, maybe right? all right? Let's move on is sex with a condom really that bad I saw some men on Reddit telling stuff like I would rather play a video game than having sex with a condom They also do some strange comparisons like eating a sandwich with plastic. Maybe it's stupid. But this made me feel insecure because I have problems with birth control and I can't get an iud because my period is already intense I dated a guide to disliked condoms. And in my head I always thought like maybe he would prefer to play a video game then I make sex with me slash prefers. The ex partners that were on birth control I would like to know if it's really that bad or maybe some men exaggerating even though I finally found a birth control that isn't killing me. It would not I would not have bare sex without staying with someone for some time. And negative thoughts would come. Yeah, this person's not being super coherent but she asks. But if sex with a condom is bad and your partner can't take birth control. Why wouldn't you just get a vasecctomy and then people explain reasons to not get a vaes vasecctomy. But yeah I want to read the first few comments here because I think they're actually wrong.
  • [44:57] Mike: Well, she's upset.
  • [45:12] Keith: Every guys like that most would prefer no condom but will wear one because that's the adult responsible thing to do don't second guesss yourself you deserve someone who will wear a condom without complaint somebody depends What video game we're talking about. Ah. Somebody says is it worse? Yes, does it make it bad. Absolutely not great sex with a condom and shit sex without one are both perfectly possible I think that's a false dichotomy. Um, yes, it's materially worse with the condom. It's still better than nothing but it's.
  • [45:32] Mike: So you're agreeing that it's bad with a condom.
  • [45:44] Keith: Material worse. Yes, you are wearing a sleeve that makes your ability to feel the sensations of a postio around your cock less good and it doesn't feel as nice.
  • [45:45] Mike: Can you be more specific.
  • [45:56] Mike: Um.
  • [45:59] Mike: So it's in it's sort of interesting because I think most sexologists agree that women don't get that much out of PiV compared to say oral performed on them so in some ways what you're saying is that man wears a condom like sex is just pointless like neither of you is getting that much out of it. Just kind of a ah null situation.
  • [46:19] Keith: Who that's an interesting thing. Okay, yeah, so for some of our newer listeners Mikes Hypothesis women don't care about sex that much. Ah, and yeah, now the man is doing something that makes him care about it less.
  • [46:30] Mike: That's that's not that's not exactly what I was saying I was saying that PIV penis and vagina sex is not the most pleasurable part of sex for women in terms of pure physical pleasure. There's an emotional component I mean there. It's therere they're simulating or actually maybe performing the act that would impregnate them so there's a.
  • [46:39] Keith: Sure.
  • [46:45] Keith: The half.
  • [46:48] Mike: Ah, significant emotional dimension there. But ah, you're you're skeptic. So I think the reason you're expressing separate skepticism is because of the large set of women you've encountered who have orgasms reliably from PIVSex
  • [46:58] Keith: No, it's not that although I have brought some women to orgasm through PiVSex ah it's it's debt I don't think it's the majority I'd have to go back I have to look.
  • [47:06] Mike: Sure you have.
  • [47:15] Mike: Um, there is this by the way on when I was when Reddit was down this and so this is this is good I promise it's another Redd is down thing I found this pornhub channel. Ah maybe I can try to put it in the show notes it was. It's this guy and pretty.
  • [47:16] Keith: Like list.
  • [47:29] Mike: Low body fat percentage guy attractive guy in this woman they're fucking. It's great. Lots of videos. They're really good and he he he's enjoying it. However, he repeatedly asks her to tell him when she's coming and then he nuts right after that and every single time It's just obvious that she's faking.
  • [47:31] Keith: Are.
  • [47:45] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [47:47] Mike: And this is sort of what come that that that type of situation now. Yeah and it actually kind of bum me out I made it less hot for me I still powered through is enjoyable but I just that's what comes to my mind is like this guy who's like oh you're just like a machine I can just make you come by pushing in and out of this orifice I Just don't think that's how it works.
  • [48:04] Keith: Sure.
  • [48:07] Mike: He would rubber clit a little too but she was clearly faking Anyway, that's neither here nor there.
  • [48:11] Keith: I Wonder if the experience is that much different for the woman. Yeah I mean there's there's some aesthetics of it right? it it doesn't smell great. It's.
  • [48:20] Mike: For the condom I don't think it matters that much to the woman. No um.
  • [48:29] Keith: The man will probably feel less connected and so those things are bad but sure. But if you could make everything else equal and the only difference is that you yeah, he's wearing a sleeve now. Um.
  • [48:33] Mike: Um, I think the man takes longer to orgasm.
  • [48:46] Keith: You know it smells the same. He's just as connected. It takes the same amount of time. Whatever other drawbacks are are to a condom are are eliminated. It's just that the texture of his penis is a little bit smoother I wonder and I suspect it doesn't matter.
  • [48:55] Mike: I Don't think that would matter. Yeah yeah I do think I do think for a woman The there's a psychological dimension. The the fact that you are actually not ejaculating inside of her I think women do get something out of that and.
  • [49:12] Keith: Um, yeah, they call it fluid bonding.
  • [49:13] Mike: The man's orgasm is sure and the man's ah orgasm is going to be materially less strong because I think I think for most men when you're using a condom. It's a little bit. You're kind of getting over the Hill but it's not like.
  • [49:19] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [49:26] Mike: You know, getting that much high that high over the hill of of of hitting an orgasm whereas if you don't have a condom. You can get sort of higher and I think women enjoy the intensity. Well maybe it's this is my fantasy life speaking but I I think it's possible for a woman to enjoy the intensity of the man's orgasm. She's like my body's giving him pleasure.
  • [49:39] Keith: Right? right.
  • [49:45] Mike: And then when you break up, she says you just used me as a flashlight and you're like but I thought you like that I mean how many times have you heard that line a lot right.
  • [49:48] Keith: Yeah I mean I I. Somebody complaining to me. No. Everyone just tells me how great I am and ask when they can see me next.
  • [50:02] Mike: Have you ever had a woman say I want you to use me like a flashlight like you didn't do that enough probably right I Just want to be your flashlight.
  • [50:07] Keith: I don't I yeah I I have heard I don't think I've heard that exact expression but the spirit of that expression. Yeah yeah, well we talked about voice cracked there.
  • [50:17] Mike: Yeah I think that's a is that's a that is sometimes a desired thing. Yeah.
  • [50:27] Keith: Ah, we've talked about about a few episodes ago this thing where like yeah this guy this guy's girlfriend or fuck buddy or whoever it was just wanted to be she kept telling him she just wanted to be fucked harder. Ah, and.
  • [50:46] Keith: Yeah I think she just wanted him to yeah, be less I don't know if gentle's the word more just doing the physical mechanical thing.
  • [50:55] Mike: Right? Can I mention by the way that the real reason the the big thing I just remember this that made me click away from the transsexual Chatterbait was some guy tipped like a thousand tokens for them to lick each other's asses and I was like I was like look I was marginally enjoying this and here you did that. So then I had to click away anyway.
  • [51:06] Keith: Of.
  • [51:13] Keith: Somebody pooped in the punch bowl.
  • [51:15] Mike: Just that just popped into my head. Yeah, it's like what are you doing? That's a lot of money too like really.
  • [51:20] Keith: Yeah, that's hundred bucks right yeah Yeah well I I mean what is that guy thinking in his Rube you know he it his bedroom. It's dark.
  • [51:23] Mike: Yeah, yeah, he really wanted to see that as liking.
  • [51:36] Keith: And then he's like I know what I'm going to do I'm going to light $100 on fire to watch these 2 guys since.
  • [51:42] Mike: Ah, no, no careful there. You don't want to mis gender them. That's ah that's violent Keith these two so trans women. no no I'm try I actually did try to gender them correctly earlier. Ah the but the I'm a teasing a little.
  • [51:46] Keith: Sorry that was my mistake you're you're officially Tuesday but I officially regret I should have said they.
  • [51:58] Mike: I'm not because I'm not doctr narrow about it like that. But the ah it could be sure I agree it it um it could be that the guy was doing it to grief and then I would just bravo him if he if he just was like I'm I'm going to. He's like I know there's like a thousand people beating off Reddit's down here I come.
  • [52:01] Keith: Um, yeah I think people should make an effort.
  • [52:12] Keith: Um, right? This is right? Yeah, this is the equivalent if you play Rebecca Black in a full room on turntable f have it's like just trolling everybody.
  • [52:18] Mike: Yeah. Yes, yes, friday.
  • [52:28] Keith: Ok, this person says we have we've done a lot of blowjob stuff today but may as well keep the theme going I've never had a blowjob am I missing out I'm a 44 year old male I'm a 44 year old single man who's never experienced a blowjob I wonder what I'm missing out on. Not sure why I specified my gender.
  • [52:31] Mike: Now.
  • [52:44] Mike: I Okay, it's pretty obvious. Yeah.
  • [52:48] Keith: It's kind of relevant. Um this the first copy is I'm not even a man and I feel like I am missing out. Ah yeah, and then this kind the next comment. Yeah yeah, it is something that yeah a woman can't really.
  • [52:57] Mike: Um I like that comment. Yeah you she is too.
  • [53:06] Keith: Understand or fully understand the equivalent of one I mean there's various analogies. But.
  • [53:10] Mike: It's satisfying. It's satisfying in this I know you won't agree with but see you find the ejaculating in the woman's mouth gross because you're you're empathetic with her. Okay, for me, it's satisfying because I because I know that.
  • [53:18] Keith: We think it's close but not.
  • [53:24] Mike: That she's having to experience it in a way that if it's in her vagina. She's not I can understand I don't like facials but I could see how that the thing here's here's the thing the issue with the facial is she's experiencing it fully so in her vagina we can agree that like there's actually not that much of an experience for the woman. She sees your facial contortions or whatever she sees you orgasming but like.
  • [53:39] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [53:42] Mike: It's almost like it's not happening when it's a facial. She's experiencing it fully like the ejaculation is there but the thing is you're experiencing it too then so that's not what you want is you want your partner the woman to experience it and you not to experience it. That's that's the beauty of the.
  • [53:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [53:59] Mike: Swallowed and this is also why I don't understand in porn when they drool it out of their mouths and stuff like no no as a man I don't want this human like I I got rid of the semen I was getting rid of it and you took it and there you go? Yeah, but that's that's that's the beauty of it is. It's like you know she's taking it. She's taking that come.
  • [54:05] Keith: Um, well, that's just for the optics right? right? Would you? yeah would you describe it as yeah, you enjoy the imposition of this season.
  • [54:21] Mike: Oh yeah, oh for sure like it's it makes it it. Yeah, it amps up. It's like ah it's like a fetish kind of thing it like amps. Although I don't I think it's a pretty common fetish If it's a fetish. It's just like it's hot to me as a guy like I like forcing this on her.
  • [54:22] Keith: Yeah.
  • [54:30] Keith: Yeah, so for me, yeah, like we've talked about this so many times over our 100 plus episodes. But for me, it's yeah I don't like that imposition. It's hard for me to get to a mental place where I want to impose my semen. On her in a way that yeah she may not like or may be ambivalent about.
  • [54:53] Mike: But can't you see can't you see that like in many many many cases having sex with her at all is sort of an imposition like that like the woman's desired cadence of sex is often lower than the man. So it's like why? Not just why? not just go all in I mean you're just saying oh maybe it's you you prefer an indetectable imposition.
  • [55:00] Keith: I Know I know I know.
  • [55:11] Keith: Yeah, it's an interesting question I agree that yeah like I've already decided to you know, lower the lower the gates on on some things but and but like that one now I'm not sure exactly.
  • [55:12] Mike: Undetectable.
  • [55:26] Mike: Yeah, most cases when the when the turn to the home stretch of sex happens like the woman is accepting a massive imposition on her body and that's that's what guys fetishize. So your yeah your position is not is hard to understand.
  • [55:34] Keith: Right? right.
  • [55:44] Keith: Ah I feel bad for this man didn't we I think we had another comment or question a few weeks ago where somebody had never had a blowjob I it's just hard to imagine a life.
  • [55:49] Mike: Um.
  • [56:02] Keith: Where you just tolerate like who knows what's happened to this person right? that maybe they're like super fat or super Ugly or they were in like a really religious community or or who knows but if they're at all normal if they're like you know in the middle 80% of normal like what kind of things happen I Guess you you end up. Married to somebody who just refuses.
  • [56:24] Mike: Yeah, and I mean I think that I actually think that has to be what it is that or being in some sort of religious order where you're actually compliant with it I saw a video on Tiktok of a guy who he did decided to do a glory hole experiment and he found a glory hole and he put his penis through it assiduously for like three days and finally this woman. Showed up and started sucking it and even that man was and he got it repeatedly. She showed ah showed up the same time each day and then he tried to search for her but he never found her. He would find a series of men but never the woman it was in a men's bathroom. That's the problem right? but.
  • [56:55] Keith: Ah, she how did he know she was she.
  • [57:02] Mike: It was in a men's bathroom. He presumed it was a woman because she was giving him or sex. But ah maybe maybe it was a man identifying as a woman but even that man was able to get a all sex I don't think so.
  • [57:06] Keith: Um, yeah I we've talked about this I think I could feel the stubble in such a way like I shaved I shaved like 2 hours ago and I'm just feeling around my mouth now I feel like.
  • [57:23] Keith: Maybe I couldn't tell I don't know.
  • [57:24] Mike: I Don't actually think that's I don't actually think that would be the Tell Isis I strongly suspect the tell would be and now I sense our our mystery Emailer is going to send us another challenge here. But um I ah.
  • [57:30] Keith: Grunting.
  • [57:37] Mike: I Strongly suspect it would be something about depth of mouth and like skill I strongly suspect men are much better at giving blows than women. It's It's just like women. Yeah.
  • [57:42] Keith: I don't know. Yeah I I wonder this about like Somalia is like if you put like 6 glasses in front of them and it's 3 different wines and they don't know they have to say like which they have to match up the 2 different glasses like perfectly. Like let's let's say it's you know in the and they're all mallbacks like I wonder if they can do that and yeah I don't know. Yeah, maybe and I feel like it's the same way with like recognizing the sex of somebody who's giving me a blowchap you would probably be better than me, you've had more blowjobs in your life I'm guessing.
  • [58:05] Mike: Maybe.
  • [58:17] Mike: Probably I just I just strongly so yeah, probably I mean I I just suspect that the force the energy the depth of the mouth like there are things that would that would I suspect to be better. Um.
  • [58:19] Keith: Although I might have had more from different partners.
  • [58:28] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [58:34] Mike: And I feel like I've read things on point before of course somebody might prefer a blowjob from a daintier a daintier mouth with a narrower tongue etc I mean just thinking about it in principle that certainly appeals to me.
  • [58:40] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [58:45] Keith: Yes, but if you can't know then I don't know now I I know but fine. But if you if you can't actually tell doesn't matter.
  • [58:49] Mike: If you don't know it's definitely a man That's always that's the that's one of the rules of blowjobs. Yeah.
  • [59:01] Mike: Oh my goodness you're asking the philosophical question of whether whether I should care. So so if I if I'm committed to getting an anonymous blowjob should I care the gender of the person who's giving it to me I do I do care.
  • [59:10] Keith: Um, yeah I think the answer well.
  • [59:18] Mike: Would you care about the age of the person who's giving it to you of setting aside children would you care if it was an eighty year old versus a thirty year old should you? Yeah I think I do though I think I do because this is the thing is that is it's a lot of it's a psychological fantasy.
  • [59:26] Keith: Um, what not if I can't tell that's but you're presuming you can tell? yeah.
  • [59:38] Mike: But I want what I want is I want an attractive woman to swallow my semen that that's what amps up the orgasm and so if it's I don't actually think a glory hole would be that good in that sense because you just I might actually have trouble getting off now if I could see the woman behind the glory hole.
  • [59:40] Keith: Are sure.
  • [59:53] Keith: Yeah, but now it's not a glory hole. That's all I mean I remember like in our first 20 episodes glory holes came up like so many times and I couldn't quite understand it. But I now understand that the glory hole is like.
  • [59:54] Mike: Then And actually you know if you did decide to give that's true. Yeah, and you could switch out quickly.
  • [01:00:10] Keith: The perfect philosophical device for discussing various various things about you know what's going on and in in the human brain. Ok I.
  • [01:00:16] Mike: Right? It's interesting. So your your view is that you should be indifferent as to who's on the other side of the glory hole. Once you've committed to a glory hole as long as it's not as long as it's safe and they're going to give you an orgasm. You should not care. What's there? Well I'm expecting and I'm expecting somebody's going to offer you money to.
  • [01:00:24] Keith: Yes, yes, he yes Ds Yes, all the nor all the normal caveats. Yes.
  • [01:00:36] Keith: Yeah, but then I have to adjust my priors. Yeah I know I know that there I know the person behind the wall isn't a woman then.
  • [01:00:36] Mike: Music Glory hole. Then yeah, you be the penis.
  • [01:00:47] Mike: Of course you know that it's but you said you did You should you said it doesn't matter but you this is like you know there's that philosophical thing about like um.
  • [01:00:50] Keith: Um, no, the not knowing is very important.
  • [01:00:58] Mike: You can't give a surprise test because you hey hey next week there's going to be surprise test but you know it can't be on Friday because blah blah blah and then it can't be Thursday if people haven't heard this. You can look it up. It's like that right? Um, yeah, so you're going to say like look by by by process of elimination. It has to be some like really unattractive man on the other side of the glory hole.
  • [01:01:00] Keith: Right? right? Yes I I know this this analogy. Yeah.
  • [01:01:15] Mike: And and and the point is that you do actually know you could never not know.
  • [01:01:19] Keith: I think you know you we have like a 98% chance of knowing.
  • [01:01:22] Mike: Okay, what if we set up a glory hole. What if we set up a glory hole where we hired 5 people one of whom was a woman attractive woman and we we spun a wheel.
  • [01:01:32] Keith: Yeah, okay, yeah, right right? Yeah I see what you're doing here. Yeah I mean a second ago I was going to say.
  • [01:01:36] Mike: And 1 of them is going to give you a blow and the other ones get like $20 just for showing up the one who gives you the blow gets like two hundred bucks would you do that. So so you have plausible and ability is 20% yeah
  • [01:01:51] Keith: 98% or something. Ah no I guess I wouldn't no I know you could.
  • [01:01:54] Mike: Um, we could definitely set this up. You wouldn't do. It's what if it was what if it was 4 women and one man this is like muchly. Yeah yeah.
  • [01:01:59] Keith: Yeah, this is a really good thought experiment I think I think yeah, what is it? What is that? What's that subreddit changed my mind I think you did I think you did yet unless I can be sure. It's a woman unless I can be sure. It's a woman I don't I'm I'm not interested.
  • [01:02:10] Mike: Wait change your mind to what. Really? so if it was 4 women and one man and we did a fair thing where like we had Alexa or whatever roll a die you wouldn't do it. Wow.
  • [01:02:20] Keith: Yeah, and I mean the important caveat is we know it. It is going to be a blowjob that I can't tell the difference.
  • [01:02:28] Mike: What? Okay what if what if it was 4 30 year old women and 1 65 year old woman.
  • [01:02:38] Keith: Yeah now now we're getting to like various Trolley problem executions here. Yes, that one I would do so in that case I have like a ah 96% chance right.
  • [01:02:49] Mike: Right? Well people can write in maybe and tell us and I'm sure we'll get some financial offers from her our our friend. Ah I got it? Yeah, we got to think about this 1 more sure.
  • [01:02:51] Keith: 97
  • [01:02:58] Keith: Yeah I do want to read the comment the second comment on this I've never had a blowjob am I missing out as a woman I can tell you you're missing out I love how it makes a man feel. He'll moan tremble and shake his cock will swell and shiver a little right before he comes so hard and if a girl enjoys it. She keeps sucking to get every last drop grabbing his ass even though we may be trying to grab her hair and pull her away I've had guys almost pass out and knowing of the pleasure. It gives them makes it such a turn on for me I'll be dripping wet from sucking cock I love it. You will too go get that dick sucked. So.
  • [01:03:29] Mike: Wait is he who's gonna be Dr is he so he's gonna be dripping wet from wait. Okay I get it. She's just telling him to get a day.
  • [01:03:35] Keith: Now she said I'll be dripping wet. Yeah, she gets her panties get wet because she's so excited about sucking the cog.
  • [01:03:42] Mike: Um, I mind that if I was attracted to men I could see that being true. Yeah.
  • [01:03:48] Keith: Um, yeah I could ah I mean I get aroused when I go down on a woman.
  • [01:03:51] Mike: Yeah, briefly or note for a loan a long lastting way or just briefly.
  • [01:03:55] Keith: I mean it it comes and goes didn't we have it yet. There was somebody who was upset that their partner wasn't rock hard the entire time he was going down on her. Yeah, that's an unrealistic expectation all right? We're done here. That's a wrap on episode one zero nine of your mileage may vary.
  • [01:04:07] Mike: It's tough. Yeah.
  • [01:04:13] Keith: You can reach us at Ymmvpod on Twitter or at y mmvpod at gmail.com you can also ask us questions there if you leave us feedback we will pay you $10 just give us your Paypal or venmo or cash app or whatever you like thanks for listening and we will catch you next week