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Episode 110: Audio Orgasms, Male-Female Sex Differences, New Porn Subreddit, Sex Clean Up, MFM Orgasm Disaster

Team YMMV | 3-23-2023 | 1:10:35

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A kind listener wrote in to ask some questions and to provide us with what I have to admit is a pretty good audio of her masturbation session and orgasm. I want to mention this up front, because we'd certainly like to receive more content like this in the future. From women. Not from men. But also, if you like listening to women orgasm, you should consider listening to this episode now.

What would you do if you proposed an MFM threesome to your female partner, whom you'd never provided an orgasm through intercourse alone, and within the first minute of the other man penetrating her she had an orgasm. A pretty crushing situation for the man, and confusing for the woman. She's thinking, "He's going to be so happy I had fun." He's wondering, "Why is this other guy's cock so much more effective than mine?"

What's going on in a situation where a woman feels so unable to refuse sex that even when she has Covid she feels obligated. And, is she really proud to be able to offer him "all three holes"? Or is it just some sort of weird training she's undergone?

I'm just going to assume people want to look at Mike's new subreddit. And they should, because it's a pretty good set of porn. Also, it'll give you a nice sense of the reach of our YMMV empire so far:

https://ymmv.me/110/mikes-subreddit

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/110/cleaning-up

https://ymmv.me/110/mfm-problem

https://ymmv.me/110/covid-sex

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly mostly in good faith. We have an excessive amount to get to today including how to turn sex down without making the rejectee feel rejected. How a woman should clean up after sex more threesome drama having sex with somebody while they're sick and more and Keith my co-host is Mike Mike did your compounds extensive grounds suffer any damage from the windstorm on tuesday.
  • [00:28] Mike: No, no, no, no damage but a lot of rain and wind so I had to go on the roof in the middle of the night and are not sorry, almost at night and it was freezing and so forth I had to clean out the gutters. Yeah.
  • [00:39] Keith: Ah I had a fairly privileged first world experience I had reservations at a nice restaurant and their power went out so I made reservations at another nicest restaurant. Nice-ish restaurant and when I got there. Power was also out and they called me and apologized the next day but that was a little late for me. Yeah well or not let me make the reservation after they closed down the restaurant. Um.
  • [01:03] Mike: Yeah, they should have gotten a generator.
  • [01:12] Mike: That's true him.
  • [01:15] Keith: Think the most interesting thing to get to today is this email from a listener we should probably she said that we could share her stuff but we should use a pseudonym I suppose but we're going to get to that in the middle of the episode mostly because there's a two and a half minute bit of audio of her masturbating that she sent to her boyfriend and she told us we can share this rather? Yes, yeah, we're going to. We're going to fight that out I suppose but we want to put it in the middle of the episode because it it's you know it's fairly explicit.
  • [01:39] Mike: And purportedly orgasming So we can We can bait that too. Yeah, yeah.
  • [01:52] Keith: And people could just skip forward and we'll they could skip forward to it now if they like or when we get to it if they don't want to hear it they could skip over it. But so that's a little teaser and then we have this subreddit.
  • [01:58] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [02:07] Keith: Thing Do you want to talk about the subreddit or do you want to hold off on that.
  • [02:11] Mike: Now I can talk about it I mean I am frustrated by the banning of so many of the porn subreddits. Um I was having a creative 24 hour spree during this last seven days and it first of all I noticed that somebody had. Requested I didn't know you could do this. It requested the homemade x xx x subreddit which is one that I I liked in the past and gotten it now I don't think they've done as much as they could with it in the meantime. And then I read these postings where people were saying that actually they thought that the banning for being un unmoderated of various porn subreddits was actually some sort of cabal of like only fans contributors and this seems possible to me who basically so you know said oh all these ones are unmoderated and went after them and and.
  • [02:40] Keith: Um.
  • [02:50] Keith: Ah I see.
  • [02:57] Keith: Oh I see the theory being they're trying to remove the amount of other options people have for porn on the internet so they'll be driven to only fans.
  • [02:59] Mike: Um, men out there. He yeah.
  • [03:06] Mike: Um, oh for sure. But because Reddit Reddit is fantastic I mean porn hub's a great sort of repository for this stuff but Reddit's fantastic in that you have the voting mechanic you have ah moderating and so I think many many men go there and women I guess.
  • [03:13] Keith: Right.
  • [03:23] Mike: Mostly men, go go there to ah to find this kind of content and and I like many others have been frustrated that a large number of these got banned all at once but regardless of why it happened I thought okay my first thought was well. There's this one called gone wild tube that I liked. Maybe I'll ask to be moderator of it. But then I started reading I did actually ask and got rejected and I started reading about it and you need some experience moderating I just said, no no I just said they don't ask they just sort of look at your background on Reddit and mines minds somewhat slim.
  • [03:43] Keith: Ah, did they ask you? Yeah did they ask you for your qualifications.
  • [03:49] Keith: I say.
  • [03:54] Mike: Ah, viewer much more than a comment or poster. So then I thought well screw this I'm just going to create a subreddit I'm going to get in the get in the ring as it were and I created a subreddit called curated amateur porn slash r slash curated amateur porn I posted it a few times on the Nsfw 4 1 one subreddit and I've now. Ah, gotten to about 5000 subscribers and that's in like four days and what I'm doing basically is I created well I'm actually I created a way for myself to post porn as I'm browsing it. So it's a very low effort for me. Although I actually think high quality product because I'm purpose I'm not.
  • [04:31] Keith: Right? right? You're curating it.
  • [04:32] Mike: Posting everything I see I'm posting only the best. Yeah exactly and I've gotten some some nods of support and um Keith and I have talked about maybe having an even more exclusive curated one for people or subscribers to the podcast that may that may be something we do in upcoming weeks
  • [04:48] Keith: You've gotten lots of nods of support. There's what now thousands of subscribers bizarrely impressively.
  • [04:54] Mike: It's true I'm getting I'm getting a lot of inbound amateur porn now which is nice to see people recommending me various stuff commenting asking me who's cocks or well actually one guy he thought it was me and he's like that's a big cock. You've got and I said well that's I I do have a big cock but this isn't me.
  • [05:02] Keith: Ah.
  • [05:08] Keith: Um, right.
  • [05:11] Mike: Ah, so definitely a new Avenue to explore. Um, yeah.
  • [05:17] Keith: Um, yeah, and we've received some feedback from a few folks on the sub about the podcast. Um I think this one particular. Gentleman presumably.. It's a man did they? Yeah I think they say they're a man. Um and he's pretty I don't know if but is he angry at us or is he is's disappointed with us I would How would you characterize his.
  • [05:37] Mike: Yeah.
  • [05:49] Mike: He's a little bit strident I mean I don't think he's angry I think that he differs sharply from our approach ah to these topics. He and really in worldview too I mean I think you should should read some of what he said, but it really a worldview difference. He hasn't been angry or.
  • [06:00] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [06:04] Mike: And anything like that. But he's very resolute and firm in his his positions.
  • [06:06] Keith: Yeah, all right? Well let me lift some quotes from him and we can discuss he says the podcast is kind of odd a lot of your content is focused on women don't actually think this way about sex or men and women are so different when it comes to sex. Okay. I mean I do think men and women are pretty different when it comes to sex.
  • [06:29] Mike: I Yeah I mean I think that one of the it's It's an organic thing. That's that's come out of recording so many episodes of this podcast. But I think one of the takeaways we have so far is I think we've we've identified many many many ways in which men and women are different and honestly. Even the the guests we've had and so forth have kind of confirmed that and ah and and the main point being that I think men and women are actually more different than like pop culture thinks they are right? So It's like it's kind of an unknown thing and which is interesting because this guy's basically saying well I guess what I would say just from that little bit you read is that this guy is parroting kind of the.
  • [06:54] Keith: Right.
  • [07:07] Mike: Maybe popular line which oh men and women are almost exactly the same and I think that's not very helpful to either gender. Yeah.
  • [07:09] Keith: Right? All right? all right? He goes on some of the content was really enjoyable. Oh thanks guy but a lot of your ideas about men and women are strange if not laughable now we try to be funny I'd love to hear a podcast by men that is about sex that is actually with men.
  • [07:19] Mike: Chore.
  • [07:28] Keith: Seems to know women on some level it just misses the mark so much and comes off as whiny sometimes he must be talking about you.
  • [07:35] Mike: I Thought he was talking about you but go on it really did. Yeah.
  • [07:40] Keith: Yeah I mean I think he probably It's although I think I say less provocative things and then you basically asked him to elaborate give some examples and his the examples he gives I think some things that stuck out the most. We're discussing things seen on social media or Tiktok where women posted videos with raunchy captions and your conclusion was basically women don't actually think about sex like this. They're just posting this as a thirst strap or these women don't actually think this is a man he's trying to say. Women don't actually think this a man must a man must have written this or told them to write this.
  • [08:19] Mike: Yeah, so I engaged with this gentleman a bit on this topic and I think he didn't like there's a couple things one is I think he had took issue with my general effort to for men and women to understand each other through analogy. So if you if you accept that there are differences. There are fundamental differences in in the experience that you have you have to sort of find things that that give you some bridge just like for example, Keith like I don't actually know what it's like to be you right? So when you tell me you had a certain experience I have to imagine an experience in my life that's kind of related and and inform some kind of analogy There might be a very tight analogy.
  • [08:46] Keith: Sure.
  • [08:54] Mike: And I think this guy's basically arguing No you can't you know everybody's completely unique. You can't understand people that way you have to like just take people completely at face value. You can't categorize. You can't stereotype right about about people's experiences. But I mean the problem with this is and I think you would agree with me like if if you took.
  • [09:05] Keith: Generalize.
  • [09:13] Mike: Ah, for example, if you took 10 men one at a time you put them on a desert island and they had to be there sort of like survivor naked and afraid and they had to be there for say fourteen days they were food but they just said to chill out there I'm very confident that all of those men are almost all of them would masturbate at least once and maybe a lot of times while they're. If. You did the same thing with women I suspect none of them would a maybe 1 yeah, it would be much much lower and I think this like gives you some idea of that. There's just a vast difference in um, the the amount the extent to which men and women think about these topics in the absence of the other gender.
  • [09:35] Keith: Yeah I think that's right.
  • [09:51] Mike: Um, yes, if you have so so reference to thirst traps if you have a woman who's confronted by a man. Well there might be some sexual attraction that causes her to create a thirst trap. Maybe um, but the man is really important if there were no men on the planet. There would be no thirst traps if there were no women on the planet men would still be nutting on things and like. Posting pictures of it showing people their cocks they would be because men are like obsessed with this in a way that women aren't that would that generally I mean but but fundamentally I think this just comes down to Like. Do you think there are gender differences or not and I think this guy thinks there aren't.
  • [10:11] Keith: Right.
  • [10:23] Keith: Right? Yeah I think he hits you I don't know I stopped reading because honestly it was boring. Ah, but yeah, does he hit you with a like well there's you know, everything's a spectrum and there's you know extremes on both sides. Okay good.
  • [10:37] Mike: No no actually I think that would have been a more nuanced viewpoint than than what he was going coming with it. Yeah because it's true I mean if ah it. Okay, it's true sure so you can have a woman that's like hypersexual interestingly, by the way 1 thing that I wanted to say and I think you had a point.
  • [10:42] Keith: Um, yes, of course it's true that there are outliers. Yes.
  • [10:53] Mike: Was really, ah, something you mentioned to me that was really on point with this some of you can bring that up too but ironically like let's say that this guy or any guy has had a set of experiences with women who are very who are who are totally not fitting the mold we're describing that are not in the category very well. They're way at 1 end of the bell curve I think in most cases. Those are going to be women that like have problems like in other words like it's not meaning meaning there's something that happened to them in their life. There's some difference in them that actually makes it would make it difficult to carry on like a successful relationship with them. Um, so ironically the people he's describing are actually people that would be harder to. To you know so be in a couple in a relationship with because they wouldn't they wouldn't they wouldn't fit in the mold and there's a reason for that. There's there's something that's happened whether they were abused when they were younger, maybe some psychological thing anyway I thought that was sort of interesting.
  • [11:46] Keith: Right? I felt like his general tone was a little bit. Um I don't know Smug or condescending like he thought he was explaining to you How women are and that.
  • [12:01] Mike: Sure.
  • [12:03] Keith: We can't possibly understand and I mean it's a little tricky I mean we do say some sort of outrageous and provocative things on this podcast and we don't always completely explain the history of our conversations on it. So I can imagine us coming off a certain way to new Listeners. We've had issues with this in the past. But yeah I mean I don't I don't think it's that we don't understand what pop culture thinks ah about the way women behave sexually I mean everyone's Becoming. You know more and more sex positive and you know the trend is to believe that there are less gender differences than maybe presumed in the past but we acknowledge all that and yeah I think to some extent we we agree with that. But also. Yeah, when we're having conversations on this Podcast. We're sort of trying to talk about things that are a little bit verbotten in some of these circles and trying to have conversations that are um I don't know a little bit counter.
  • [13:16] Mike: Well not maybe yeah, maybe not politically correct in all cases. Yeah counter the common Narrative That's right.
  • [13:19] Keith: To the common narrative right? right? And so yeah, my hope would be that listeners would be like huh. This is interesting I hadn't considered these things before and they may disagree with us but instead of like smugly saying ah. You know, ah women are basically the same as men sexually he should give like specific examples about like where he thinks we're wrong and I'm not sure he does that in this argument. Although I haven't read the ten to the seventh responses you guys sent to each other.
  • [13:48] Mike: Right? I mean he for example, takes issue I mean I do definitely use what he derisively calls evolutionary psychology in my thinking in other words mating behaviors mating strategies which differ between men and women.
  • [14:00] Keith: Yeah.
  • [14:04] Mike: He then says well you know there are other animals that have different mating strategies which is true but right the problem is yeah which I mean and and and the notion that you can psychologically change your mating strategy. In other words that you would have maybe this is true I'm skeptical that there are.
  • [14:06] Keith: But we're not those other animalals.
  • [14:19] Mike: Say different. You know the same species ah of an animal found in different places on Earth that have totally different mating strategies. In other words I strongly suspect I can look this up and try to get more data but I strongly suspect that the broad mating strategies that are used are kind of genetically programmed. It makes sense to me that they would be um.
  • [14:35] Keith: Yeah I mean just hearing that I can imagine people responding arguing that point. But I think as as a first principle. It seems it seems reasonable right? yeah.
  • [14:37] Mike: So yeah.
  • [14:46] Mike: Well again, it's ah it's the I'm talking about tendencies. Yeah I'm not talking about like every single person has to fit into every category I'm saying this is the broad truth of the categorizations and there is not likely to be an island somewhere where women are the sexual aggressors and men are kind of hiding.
  • [14:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [15:03] Mike: Yeah, or you know hiding their penises all the time and so on and so forth. Yeah.
  • [15:07] Keith: Right? All right? Well this meta conversation about metainterpretations of our show is getting boring. Let's move On. Um, let's see ah this person asked something that reminded me of a somewhat recent experience I had so I wanted. To get to it and they ask how do I turn down sex with a man I'm interested in without making him think that I am not Interested. So This man has you know tried to make a move on her and she wants to not have sex with him but she doesn't want him to feel. You know, rejected or that she's not Interested. She says whenever I start dating someone I end up having sex with them too soon because I don't know how to say no without making the guy think I don't want him. Um.
  • [15:57] Keith: So yeah, this person says as a man I don't want to question if you're into me this is a response I don't want to question if you're into me if you tell me outright I like you a lot but I'm not comfortable having sex. So soon I want to get to know you a bit more first I think that's fine and she should probably employ something along those lines. The. Ah, problem here is and I ran into this recently. Ah I attempted to kiss somebody at the end of a first date and I asked them if it was okay for me to do so and she said no and that's fine. That's why I asked but it now creates this situation where.
  • [16:19] Mike: Ah.
  • [16:35] Keith: Okay, well should I try at the end of the second date. What about the third I did that's not part of this story I don't like to Kiss and tell or not kiss and tell.
  • [16:38] Mike: Didn't you go on a second didn't you go on a second day with this person. So what? what happened did you try? Oh ge why it's sort of important I mean what did this did it did it play a role. In the second and important role in the second day or did it just kind of go away I think that's a reasonable question. Yeah, you're still not going to answer that. Wow.
  • [17:02] Keith: Yeah,, that's the question right? Yeah,, That's right I'm not going to answer Um, but yeah I mean it it sort of creates this situation. Ah, where yeah Like. Once you've established and he understands the ball is now in her court to initiate when she's ready and that is not a position that a lot of women want to find themselves in so I Well she should say she should say that then.
  • [17:29] Mike: I Don't think that has to be true I mean the guy could simply ask again.
  • [17:36] Keith: She should say look I'm not ready but you should keep trying Well I mean otherwise the man might reasonably feel that he shouldn't try right? like when is he supposed to make an attempt again.
  • [17:51] Mike: Um, I think let me think about this.
  • [17:51] Keith: Like she said you're being too forward, you're being too Alpha please don't do that. So then yeah, like how much should he back off.
  • [18:00] Mike: It's really difficult because it's it's hard for me to get in the mind of what yes it is true that I think that if as a man you were I was told that I would think oh, she's not interested. She's she wants to I'm being friend zoned I think that would be the natural.
  • [18:07] Keith: Um, yeah, yes.
  • [18:13] Mike: Assumption now from your unwillingness to go further about this I I'm I'm going to interpret that you probably were not friend zoned so there's probably something interesting here some some way in which this actually because if you had been friend Zoneed You wouldn't care not that she's probably a listener that's fine, but um and I respect that but but the it's the only thing I can.
  • [18:25] Keith: Right.
  • [18:33] Mike: I think that probably as a guy guys are you know more used to rejection and so in that sense I think most guys probably would just yeah, ask it she in other words I think the woman's not making a grave mistake by um, by saying by by doing it in this way. Um, however. I think if you turn the tables and I actually had an experience like this once where I expressed lack of interest it was when I was in high school and I think I basically like delayed sex with this girl for like six months because of that because she was so like taken aback and then after.
  • [18:54] Keith: Okay.
  • [19:09] Mike: We'd been together for a while she actually brought it up and said like what was going on there and I said I I don't remember exactly what I said but it was basically like I you know I was a kid I wasn't sure it was something like that and I I don't know exactly what I said but she was like it really dramatically altered her approach to me for a period of time because women are not used to.
  • [19:17] Keith: Right? right.
  • [19:27] Keith: Yeah I mean women are not used to initiating really anything in standard dating scenarios some do blah blah blah but like in general.
  • [19:27] Mike: Rejection in the same way men are um, yeah.
  • [19:35] Mike: Well this it. But but think about it it in this case, she she initiated something and I rejected her and then that had to be like repaired and it took a while and and of course I did not realize I was rejecting her I was just too young to understand exactly what what was going on.
  • [19:44] Keith: Um, right.
  • [19:50] Keith: Right? right? Ah yeah, okay, all right? Yes sorry I misunderstood. But yeah, my point still stands. Yes, yeah, yeah, like.
  • [19:56] Mike: Yeah, it does it does shows you I mean she'd worked up the courage to initiate right? So that was a big deal for her and then then I I did the stupid thing.
  • [20:05] Keith: As as sort of confused as I was about being rejected. Ah yeah, like a woman being rejected is like a thousand times worse because you know I've been rejected before like I can handle it and get over it. But for her especially at her age. Probably. Ah, this is psychologically a little a little rough all right? Let's move on this person. Wonders. How do I clean up after sex. Okay, now here's a silly question I a 22 year old female have no idea how to clean my vagina after sex I recently started using pills.
  • [20:24] Mike: Yeah, that's right, It's a strange huge experience.
  • [20:40] Keith: And have never experienced sex without a condom before my current partner is my first anyway now I don't know how to clean properly. Whatever I do something always stays there and annoys me I'm coming from a fairly conservative family and even simple things like periods aren't discussed and everything I've found online so far was how to prevent pregnancy after my partner failed to pull out. And not what I want to know which is how to clean up after my partner didn't pull out I just don't want to hurt myself doing something wrong I know it sounds stupid I do ah before we comment here. Let me just read the first comment which I think is a good succinct answer.
  • [21:12] Mike: Her.
  • [21:14] Keith: You should empty your bladder after sex to avoid a uti. Some people are more prone than others whilst you are on the toilet. Some semen will come out into the toilet aside from that just a wipe or a shower if you want to if you want to use a wetwash washcloth use only water or if you must some gentle scent-free soap on your vulva but absolutely nothing inside your vagina. It'll sort itself out. So Yeah I think that's the right answer. But.
  • [21:38] Mike: I mean there's a there. There's 1 additional thing which is that I have seen women give the tip of like if you want to protect your underwear whatever like a stuff is going to come out after that so you can like wear a like like a pad like if you had your period? yeah.
  • [21:47] Keith: Yeah, so what's the strategy. Oh I see I say yeah, put some toilet paper in your in your panties or something. Yeah.
  • [21:57] Mike: Or that yeah, whatever like there there are women that do that but like she's right that Basically I mean maybe you don't experience this as much or women your lady friends don't because you aren't able to put the seamen quite as deep as I am but ah, but it's definitely a fit.
  • [22:07] Keith: No Fuck off. Go why.
  • [22:16] Mike: No I mean you know it's it's it's not. It's if you if you were to measure the amount that the man expels in some way be hard to do this or impossible really and then compare that to the amount that comes out when she's on the toilet right afterward that doesn't all come back out now.
  • [22:27] Keith: Um, yeah, this person says and I I don't know if this is true and I thought this was sort of interesting. It might be true semen tends to be thick when it first comes out then gets more liquid after five to ten minutes it will leak out of you more easily than I guess that is true I hadn't.
  • [22:41] Mike: That's true. That's true it it.
  • [22:45] Keith: I Guess explicitly thought about this. But yeah I think that consistency does change in fairly short order.
  • [22:49] Mike: Yeah, there's a there's some chemical reaction that happens and it has to do with you know where where the semen goes in to you know to impregnate the woman. So yeah, there's there's definitely a change that happens and it becomes more watery after a period of time.
  • [22:59] Keith: I see right? I mean I've definitely had partners complain about me leaking out of them. You know later after we had had sex earlier I think that's just an annoying thing like I don't know what they should do about that.
  • [23:18] Mike: Um, yeah, they can I mean that's that's the thing they can do I mean the? ah yeah I don't It's women already. It's a little bit of a strange questions. He's asking this women already sort of how to deal with this right? I mean there there they have a certain amount of discharge.
  • [23:18] Keith: Pad I guess.
  • [23:32] Keith: Right.
  • [23:34] Mike: By the way I was watching a um, a porn earlier today and it was anal and um, people have to go and check I don't actually remember but I think no I think no because it wasn't was clearly professionally produced. But um.
  • [23:42] Keith: Did this make it to the ah famous curated Amateur Porn subreddit.
  • [23:49] Keith: Yes.
  • [23:53] Mike: The ah the this it was in the doggie style position and the woman was like sort of leaking fluid and I do not think it was lubricant from her anus I think she was actually like aroused enough that there was fluid leaking out of Vagina or maybe it was lube that had been put up there. That's probably more likely.
  • [24:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [24:11] Mike: And have you experienced a woman like sort of where it's dripping out like that while you're in a certain position or.
  • [24:17] Keith: Um I don't know no I don't think so I mean some women are much wetter than others like much um and we've talked about this on the show in the past. But yeah, like there's there's some sweet spot of of wetness.
  • [24:20] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [24:35] Keith: Um, some goldilockx zone you know' want to be too wet or or too dry. But yeah I don't know if I've ever noticed it being so much that it's dripping. Although you know I've seen various porn I think where people seem to have a bunch art isn't there a subreddit called like Gruel or something.
  • [24:51] Mike: Yeah, there is I mean yeah, that's I mean anything you can come up with people people fetishize I was yeah, that's right I encountered there was a guy who told who told me that his fetish this week that his fetish was um, titty fucking in the nutting between on her neck that really surprised me because i.
  • [24:54] Keith: Right.
  • [25:06] Keith: Her neck her neck and like under her chin.
  • [25:09] Mike: Yeah I was yes and I was talking to a fan of the podcast who said that he also really really likes stuff like that and I I told him that like I even don't like and he thought this was funny I don't even like um it when semen gets on like the upholstery you know like if they're on the couch and like she doesn't catch it all. Inner mouth like I prefer it to be disposed of and I really don't want it sort of Sprang all over the place but he had he had the opposite take that he really wanted it. What is your take on that. Are you a fan of the the Hity fuck nut or the.
  • [25:31] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [25:37] Keith: No I don't like yeah like I strongly prefer the semen to be in a hole so that I don't have to like deal with it.
  • [25:45] Mike: Um, yeah, let me ask you this though. So So okay, then then I pointed out to him that for me I think this is like gives me a slight referenceence for a blow because then it's totally gone just get swallowed whereas you do have this issue this person's talking About. We're like if you. Do Pi V Sex I mean it's not well. You know it's It's going to come right back out and so you have this like kind of timer running I mean doesn't that wouldn't that lent lead you toward being a little more interested in a blow than the PiV experience.
  • [26:18] Keith: Ah, yes, you're saying that using the mouth hole is more effective in terms of not having to see my semen again.
  • [26:26] Mike: Exactly Yeah and and there's no like let's say you're using your bed. You don't have to worry about like yeah getting on your building head or something like there're these things that that that go away. Wow.
  • [26:34] Keith: Oh that's an interesting point I I guess I haven't considered that. Yeah, if I not if I not inside their vagina. It will likely and you know let's let's say ah the gal is sleeping over. It's probably going to you know through no fault of her own.
  • [26:49] Mike: Right? Well or if she just doesn't write or if she doesn't go to the bathroom fast enough like what? Ah, there's all these behavior like it sort of matters. We're in a way the where soon she safes in her stomach like I mean you've got probably like 48 hours but and it's going to go a different place. It's fine. That's never.
  • [26:51] Keith: Bleak Leak onto my nice sheets. Yeah yeah.
  • [27:03] Keith: Yeah, yeah I guess it doesn't bother me or not enough to worry about it. Yeah, um, all right? Let's ah.
  • [27:06] Mike: Been an issue for you.
  • [27:11] Mike: Okay.
  • [27:19] Keith: Let's move on to another threesome disaster story. This one is almost like the ah canonical like if if there's 1 thing men don't want happen want to happen in a threesome this is this is it during an mfm.
  • [27:37] Mike: Um, but she's in between them.
  • [27:38] Keith: So there is one one girl and 2 men and yes, the men are not interested. They're they're not gay. They're not interested in each other. They're just fucking the girl my girlfriend orgasm from penetration for the first time with the other guy we've been dating for 8 years and she's only been able to come if we use her vibrator or I touch her clit when we're fucking.
  • [27:49] Mike: If now.
  • [27:57] Keith: Always wanted her to come just from me but I did some reading and saw someone that need clutoral stimulation to orgasm so I didn't let it bother me. We with her first 3 of a week ago I would did know where this is going I fucked her first and then we switched around where he was fucking her doggy style while she gave me a blowjob like 10 seconds in she was coming really hard.
  • [28:03] Mike: Right.
  • [28:16] Keith: I was shocked because all he was doing was fucking her doggie style and not even touching her clit later on I was eating her out. Oh that's not great.
  • [28:25] Mike: Is there, you wait. What is there a problem you see here Keith what? what's the problem you're seeing. There's still some fluid. But yeah.
  • [28:27] Keith: Okay, well maybe he has it. Maybe he didn't nut. Maybe he didn't nut but still I don't think yeah later on I was eating her out while she gave him a blowjob and then she asked him to make her come again. He started fucking her doggie style again and after a couple minutes she came again that part hurt my pride a little bit.
  • [28:45] Mike: Um.
  • [28:46] Keith: Because she specifically asked him to make her come and I've also never bade her come twice during 1 session before oh man I asked her lately later why she was able to orgasm with him like that and she couldn't really explain why it happened just that it felt like he was hitting the right spot I guess I feel jealous now because because I wanted to continue.
  • [28:59] Mike: Yeah.
  • [29:05] Keith: Um, yeah I don't know if there's really anything to say here I but I do like these like 3 sub disaster stories because ah.
  • [29:05] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [29:13] Mike: Well I Okay so one thing I would mention is that um this is kind of like some sort of game. There's a game theory thing at play here. It's like a little bit like a prisoner's dilemma or Stag hunt or whatever like I think she is she she must have had a real orgasm because. In that situation I do not think a woman would ever fake I think you've I think right? So I think it is it has to be a real one.. Although maybe she thought he would like it and so she faked so he would like it although then later maybe she would just say hey it was fake like sorry which would maybe have been the smartest thing for her to say.
  • [29:29] Keith: Um, yeah, she almost doesn't want to.
  • [29:41] Keith: Yeah, Mike can we we not let's let's just for for 1 topic assume that a woman who said she orcasm to orcasm.
  • [29:48] Mike: 9 Okay, okay, well I mean you know 8 years of trying with PIV and then here it comes okay so I mean I'm I'm guessing the guy was girth here. You know that's that's my first pass guess maybe it's angled in a different direction. Really.
  • [30:00] Keith: Yeah, there could be a ingenuity thing here too. A newness.
  • [30:07] Mike: Oh oh oh you mean Ingenuity made me think that's the wrong word you you I made me think that he he was. He had some technique which which I was like enlighten me no you, you just mean? Yeah, yeah, that's problem. That's that's that's all so possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like novelty. Yeah.
  • [30:10] Keith: It is the wrong word.
  • [30:20] Keith: Yeah, ingenuity was the wrong word I was I but I meant to say Newness um novelty. That's the word I wanted. Thank you? Um, yeah I mean I think.
  • [30:27] Mike: Yeah.
  • [30:32] Keith: Yeah, she might have been more aroused than she typically is but but I mean even if that's the case that's not a very comforting answer.
  • [30:38] Mike: Well and that's a huge risk in these situations I mean women get mad I mean this is why it's very common in an Mf f situation for the woman to have like kind of rules about where the guy's nut goes and where he's going to orgasm the stuff and this guy but the thing is. It's just tricky like he didn't have this. He didn't realize he should set up boundaries like that and she of course wouldn't have known that she was going to get that PiV 10 seconds. Wow That's ah.
  • [30:59] Keith: Right? 10 seconds I mean hopefully time was compressed for him and like it was actually a little bit longer than that. But man.
  • [31:07] Mike: So I think I have pretty high self-esteem. But that one I'd be upset I agree I actually would be upset because I would be it wouldn't be like I it would be just like Oh yeah I be I would just be like oh that's that's sad that would it would.
  • [31:15] Keith: Some guy comes in and like plays your girlfriend like a fiddle hurt and your kiss your wife. Yeah yeah I wouldn't be great I can't imagine you know I've I've I've said in the past you know there's an amount of money.
  • [31:26] Mike: Yeah, it made me sad. Yeah.
  • [31:34] Keith: You can pay me that'll try anything but the downside risk of an M f m three sum is so high that you would really I mean the comp would have to be.
  • [31:42] Mike: Yeah, that guy from last week by the way never mailed to like make a counter offer for getting you to blow someone or whatever. So no still. We're still open taking money. Um, yeah, no I mean I don't I don't know if.
  • [31:46] Keith: Oh yeah, yeah, if you're listening if he if he wants to give me? Yeah, yeah.
  • [31:59] Mike: God It's years of being together and like feel bad for her too because she basically had a really good experience and now what she's supposed to do and and also she's gonna always wonder like could she could she do better. This is destructive. Yeah.
  • [32:12] Keith: Yeah, ah yeah I mean yeah, don't have three sims if you're in a committed relationship.
  • [32:16] Mike: MF I think is I think mf is I don't know Mff I think can work better because you already know not to suggest that men and women have different sex drives but you already know that the man is going to be differentially more interested in maybe having a wandering eye interested in other women. So it's not that surprising I wouldn't think it would be that surprising to your partner that he.
  • [32:35] Keith: Yeah I think it's I think that downside of emasculation is much higher in Mfm than the downside of whatever what effemination? What's the yeah.
  • [32:36] Mike: Enjoyed it. Women aren't women are sort of not. It's unusual or it's surprising but you know.
  • [32:48] Mike: Well, the feminization. Yeah, the the worry though that your girlfriend would have and in in an Mf situation is that she would be jealous. It's sort of similar. It's sort of similar but it's not it wouldn't It would be more like if you had a connection.
  • [32:59] Keith: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
  • [33:06] Mike: The orgasm thing is I think less of a concern although I don't know I mean yeah, it's like you kind of know that he can have orgasms with other women otherwise like I mean why does prostitution exist. Otherwise so.
  • [33:12] Keith: But right right? Yeah, all right? Let's move on and try and do one more topic before we get to our masturbating female listener. Ah my boyfriend keeps asking me for sex. Even though I have covered my boyfriend and I usually have a lot of sex.
  • [33:24] Mike: Ah.
  • [33:30] Keith: He said he likes that about me and he liked how he could use all 3 holes as he put it I mean that's the right way to put it if that is indeed anyway. However, I recently caught covered and I've been throwing up and have pretty bad diarrhea I am also on my period and period sex is not something I like to do it's been.
  • [33:44] Mike: oh no, oh no all 3 holes are are occupied Jesus wow. Wow.
  • [33:52] Keith: It's been about a week and he keeps spreadsreing me to have sex even though I have explained to him that I'm not feeling Well how do I get him to stop asking me. So first of all I I Just thought that like yeah that her explanation of this was just so gross to me.
  • [34:08] Mike: The all 3 holes.
  • [34:09] Keith: That Yeah, just yeah, it's like she is closed for business I don't mind period sex. But um I Definitely especially I mean I've never had covered and so ah yeah I mean you would have to put a gun to my head to have sex with somebody with covered.
  • [34:27] Mike: Oh to because you might get out. He might have figured that he might figure he's going to get it anyway because they're not quarantining you know.
  • [34:28] Keith: Um.
  • [34:33] Keith: Ah, yeah, maybe gave it to her. Whatever although there's lots of you know families who don't all get it when 1 person gets we don't we're not going to talk about. We're not going to. We're not going to do the a butture epidebiology virology thing here. Um i.
  • [34:42] Mike: That's true. There's a there was it. There's no yeah I'm not interested in covered the yeah.
  • [34:51] Keith: Whenever my partners are sick I am not interested in having sex with them I think some people are that some people get like there's something about their weakness that like makes them more attractive to me. It's just like that's fucking disgusting I am not interested.
  • [34:53] Mike: Oh sure I agree.
  • [35:03] Mike: Yeah I don't think this is either I think it's that a couple things. Well okay, first thing I wanted to say is that like Ari her like the description of the situation. 1 of my favorite descriptions we had on the and it's relevant on the podcast was when I read something where a guy said he was going to lick her from hole to hole. Every woman that I've said that to and there's been several just to see what they thought of that was the first response was something like you which I think is like sort of the same here. Um, this woman sounds like she's it's it's a little bit hard for me to take a face value mean like when she says that he what all 3 holes bubble blah blah she's saying like.
  • [35:23] Keith: Yeah, right.
  • [35:42] Mike: Sounds a little bit like she's like a hostage hostage situation I mean does a woman really want to be saying things like that is that I mean I guess there's some women that that would think that way and be like oh yeah, I've got my holes. He's filling my holes but and so I her it's vicarious her caring about this I think I don't know.
  • [35:53] Keith: Yeah I mean I meant.
  • [36:00] Mike: Yeah, okay.
  • [36:02] Keith: Yeah I don't know why she wrote it with this I mean would you tell your partner. No they should respect that there's nothing really more to say um.
  • [36:10] Mike: Well, she's not saying no, she's wanting to be available to him but it it makes me think that like there's a little bit of a psychological or something abuse here where she's like not feeling comfortable just being a normal person I mean not you know you might just be tired or yeah.
  • [36:20] Keith: Yeah I mean she finishes her she finishes her post. How do I get him to stop asking me like she doesn't want to have sex and he's badgering her even though she has covered I mean it's.
  • [36:32] Mike: Well, but I'm already I'm already like surprised by her characterization of the 3 holes like that doesn't that feels like something that's been taught to say like women know like woman absent a man talks like that like oh I got my holes. It's like that they don't think like I mean in my experience.
  • [36:39] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [36:47] Keith: Well yeah I mean there's an additional thing that I didn't read because I didn't think it was relevant but I'll say it now the the man is thirty years old and she's 21 so yeah yeah, it's probable that he's just using her as a flashlight.
  • [36:56] Mike: There we go.
  • [37:03] Mike: Well I mean that that there can be a fetish dimension to that I mean it's it's not yeah, it could be I mean I'm assuming it's voluntary and and she's fine with it. It's just to say that like she may not be thinking for herself much year. She may not want to. But yeah I don't I'm not sure that's a how many let's see you have 2 holes I guess men have 2 holes.
  • [37:14] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [37:22] Mike: And this context so we'd have to say we'd have to say like so if I had Covid and diarrhea then I could say both my holes are closed or whatever but you you do have a peehole could that be I Guess you'd have to have like Gonorrhea or Chlamydia or something.
  • [37:23] Keith: Ah, right ass and mouth. Yeah.
  • [37:36] Keith: You can't really fuck a peehole. Although let's not get into this I'm I'm I'm aware of docking all right? Let's get on to the listener who wrote in ah I don't know what's a good generic.
  • [37:39] Mike: But yeah. What are you going to name her.
  • [37:53] Mike: Sure suzy.
  • [37:53] Keith: Female name Susie all right? Ah, her email is lengthy but the context is sort of important I'm going to try and get through this and like maybe if it's boring. We'll we'll skip through it but because there's there's just a lot of things to attack here I think this is going to carry us through the rest of the show. She says.
  • [38:11] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [38:13] Keith: First of all, love the show I'm a thirty year old woman and I've yet to learn anything new from Alex Cooper but you guys are actually interesting. So yeah, she's starting off strong this is ah.
  • [38:22] Mike: Well I like that she's dissing Alex Cooper being of course the ah call her daddy. That's her right? podcasts that got paid a bunch of money from spotify and it turns out it turns out that you know most close to all one I mean except for um savage love which is what's his first name.
  • [38:24] Keith: Yes, yes, 60000000
  • [38:38] Keith: Um, Dan.
  • [38:40] Mike: Dan Savage he's but he's sort of he's okay, he's gay so which is fine but that's means he's not a hetero male perspective. My point being that there are actually are not many hetero male podcast sex sex and relationship podcast we we probably are the most listened to one I think that's correct. Um, yeah.
  • [38:50] Keith: Yeah, there are some but they always have a female co-host or generally right right.
  • [38:59] Mike: Yeah, so so there's a thirst trap element for like for better or worse. We have to operate on our wits and merit which is harder. So I appreciate that I appreciate that she seems to have ah Susie seems to have noticed that and um, yeah, bravo to her and us.
  • [39:15] Keith: Right? She goes on I've been seeing a guy who's 35 remember she's 30 since the fall and it has been moving very slowly because we have very demanding jobs his takes him on the road for pretty much all of ah for yeah I'm going to try not to give all the identifying details here. So for for pretty much all winter.
  • [39:19] Mike: Yeah.
  • [39:33] Mike: Yeah.
  • [39:34] Keith: We've barely been in the same city the whole time I think we've been together 6 times in four months neither of us likes texting so the communication in between has been limited but since it's been over a month since we've been able to be together in person we have started sexting. He initiated this type of exchange between us in a very subtle way and have been ramping it up in the past couple weeks by being more explicit and sending him picks. Suggestive but not graphic all nipples and holes covered back back to the holes. Ah we wanted to see each other last week but his team pulled some surprising results. Ah and had to make a quick turnaround. Obviously I want them to do well more than anything but I also want to get my fucking rocks off ha ha.
  • [39:55] Mike: Man horses. It's funny.
  • [40:13] Keith: Anyway I like how she says anyway, not anyways, he yeah, he always talks about how much it turns him on hearing me coming so the other day I had the idea to do a voice memo masturbating coming to send to him never in 1000000 years what I see myself doing something like that and honestly.
  • [40:15] Mike: I Appreciate that.
  • [40:31] Keith: It's never even occurred to me before but as soon as I thought of it I couldn't not do it I've always been very sexual but not promiscuously so and the sexual connection we have is insane I think we're both kind of surprising ourselves with these behaviors. Okay, all right she goes on.
  • [40:46] Mike: Ah, but I just want to say that it it turned me on to hear her coming but go ahead. Yeah yes, like she gave us permission. Yes.
  • [40:48] Keith: Yes, yeah, so listeners. We are going to play this audio Mike asked her to send it to us and she remarkably obliged and gave us permission. The voice memo was well received and led to a brief exchange in the screenshots attached. Probably given you more info than you need at this point but I'm curious to know y'all's take on 2 things all right? So here come the questions that we promised we would answer for her considering we aren't in an official relationship or anything and have been taking our time getting to know each other. Do you think I'm making myself too much of a sexual object without having made him invest in me more emotionally yet to be honest.
  • [41:09] Mike: Yes.
  • [41:23] Keith: Ah, hate the idea of making someone invest. Emotionally it feels like sexual manipulation to me like dangling the carrot of sex just feels icky and I prefer to listen to my body and intuitions when it comes to who I sleep with not the neurotic ramblings of social conventions I like her phrasing there also in all of nature. The physical always precedes the mental. The. Evolution of human consciousness is really the most recent addition. Yeah, okay, I'm not going read this part? Yeah, um, it's mildly interesting. But I'm trying to keep things in the interest of brevity I'm going to skip it. So Mike um.
  • [41:47] Mike: Blah. But but yeah.
  • [41:52] Mike: Right? so.
  • [42:00] Keith: Is it risky for women to be overtly sexual towards men that they haven't locked down yet.
  • [42:06] Mike: Um, well I mean I want to say 1 thing first which is that and this really comes from the gospel according to eric 1 of our listeners. But I think it's a really good point which is um, listeners and guests is that cultural culture is actually culture doesn't come from nowhere. Culture comes from a distillation of how what what works what works for people in real society right? yeah.
  • [42:31] Keith: Often often as a general rule I think that's correct right? So like most most human societies are ah monogamous. For example.
  • [42:34] Mike: Okay.
  • [42:42] Mike: Yeah I don't I mean often, let's see when you say often I assume that you're going you were going like the direction of saying oh there's certain cultural practices that are now considered taboo culturally ah, politically incorrect and so forth and those were not actually optimal or something.
  • [42:55] Keith: I'm not I'm not sure that all cultures all features are effective distillations reflecting the values of those people I think I think you know governments can get involved I think there can be various responses to things that happened.
  • [43:04] Mike: I agree with that I'm just saying that that it's it's sure it's it's what it's what works. It's what's worked in the past it doesn't mean that there aren't more than one. There isn't one more than 1 thing that could work. It doesn't mean but it's but it means that there's like some yeah, there's some logic. There's some.
  • [43:10] Keith: And the past.
  • [43:15] Keith: Sure. Alright, we're getting bogged down here.
  • [43:21] Mike: Knowledge embedded in the culture and the reason that's relevant is because she said she's worrying about her mind playing you know this this like kind of mind games of like oh I'm dangling sex as a carrot I'm using that as as the as the lure and but to get up to guy in relationship and the thing about it is that like that's okay, yes, that is a cultural trope. It's also like human mating behavior right? I mean like why do women wear makeup where Bikinis. Ah. Carefully, you know why are why are there way more women getting manicures and pedicures than men blah Blah Blah Blah There's a whole series of things like that. Well it's because this is simply a mating strategy that women know women are more attractive than men objectively just like ah male peacocks are more attractive than female peacocks objectively and there's a mating strategy there and so I don't think. Think there's nothing wrong with it. In fact I think she's just being completely normal and I can understand that she's receiving social messaging saying there's something wrong with doing this. He should like you for your your wit your brain. She seems to have a good brain given her her coherent message to us. Um, actually.
  • [44:26] Keith: Yep.
  • [44:28] Mike: Ah, we've been impressed by it but the ah but and that's fine. He should like you for that. But the reality is like the first carrot is this and it's the same reason a guy would wear a rolebox rolex which I was told cost like 50 grand or rolex is that true I couldn't I was like wow that's amazing to me because that to me that's like a symbol of something.
  • [44:38] Keith: I Think they're super expensive. Yeah.
  • [44:47] Mike: Else. But okay, it's a status symbol maybe a car Maybe whatever various things you'd have as a status symbol. Maybe even your your career like oh I'm a doctor I'm a lawyer. Whatever your career and that's what's wrong with that. You know? Yeah, why do why? do people want to become pop stars Amen Why do they want to do that. Well a lot of it's because they want to have sex with attractive women. You know so.
  • [45:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [45:07] Mike: Okay, they go and get some status. So I think it's totally normal at it. You know what? What do you? do you think there's ah, an element of it That's abnormal.
  • [45:12] Keith: What her holding back sex. What's it.
  • [45:17] Mike: Know her her her using her. It's that question, you asked her using her kind of her herself her her attractiveness and by the way. Ah, we've stalked her enough to know she's a fitness instructor. She is pretty attractive but we can't say more you know.
  • [45:25] Keith: Well I don't think she doesn't she doesn't want to ah she doesn't want to withhold it. She wants to engage sexually. She's she's enjoying this but she's worried that she's Compromising. Her ability to I um I I just go to like the straw man this a little bit. She's where she's compromising her ability to entrap him in a relationship because she will have you know, given up the goods too soon or something.
  • [45:54] Mike: Oh I took it the other way I took it that she didn't want to use her attractiveness and physical features as Bait you're saying the opposite that it's like so maybe I went on a ramble.
  • [46:02] Keith: I think she would like to and she is wondering if she should feel badly about her. Yeah I don't know if it's promiscuity or her her overt sexual sexuality. It's not promiscuity.
  • [46:07] Mike: Oh I get it I get it? well.
  • [46:19] Mike: Um, I mean there is the element of she's um, she's being assertive and maybe a guy. It's a little bit resembles your thing about the the um can I Kiss you? no um. And if you turn the genders around I mean he might find that strange that she's being so overtly sexual and and pushing toward him in that way. That's not the most typical kind of meeting pattern or whatever. So.
  • [46:34] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [46:41] Keith: Yeah, well I mean their long distance. Relationship is also not sort of atypical so this is a unusual situation generally.
  • [46:51] Mike: She could ah she could express interest in like dick picks from him which she probably doesn't actually want really you know she shouldn't do that.
  • [46:55] Keith: No, no, no, she can do that if she likes okay, here's my opinion on this I think a lot of women agonize about whether they should have sex with someone on the first date and I think generally the answer is no unless you're compelling if you are awesome.
  • [47:01] Mike: All right.
  • [47:09] Mike: Um.
  • [47:13] Keith: Like if you have a lot to offer beyond just your physical form then go ahead, go for it if you want to have sex and that's something that you enjoy doing you should do it. But if that is the main thing that is luring men to you. Ah, then you probably shouldn't You should probably run like ah a slow roll entrapment strategy.
  • [47:30] Mike: Do you think? do you think that it So when you said if you have something compelling about everybody has something compelling about them. But I think we understand like there's a sliding scale of how compelling someone is like whatever it is how smart they are creative whole series of things. Do you think there's a sliding scale between that and and attractiveness. So for example, if you take somebody who's.
  • [47:32] Keith: And you know.
  • [47:40] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [47:50] Mike: Kind of unattractive should they be more willing to have sex quickly than somebody who's more attractive and yeah because you said you said well somebody who has more non physical attributes should be willing to do it more because they have something to pack it up. Okay.
  • [48:02] Keith: I don't know if they should be if if you want to have sex on a first date if like let's say you really like having sex and you would like to sleep with men on the first date but you're you're worried that that's going to compromise your ability to get second and subsequent dates with that person I think that is. Ah, reasonable concern in many cases and and if you're trying to figure out whether or not it's a reasonable concern for you. You should think about what it is that you're that you're offering and if it's you know if you're I don't know how to say this I mean you know some people are lamer than others right? like so you know there's there's a lame scale.
  • [48:38] Mike: So right.
  • [48:41] Keith: And if you think that you are below the mean on that or sorry above the mean you're more lame than average then maybe you shouldn't sleep with the man on the first date because you want to have you want them to have some skin in the game. Um, but if if you right? But if you you know, think that you have represented yourself well and.
  • [48:53] Mike: Right? You're afraid they'll just ghost you right.
  • [49:01] Keith: You know that you you feel some sort of connection and you think you're likely to get a second date regardless then then go for it. Um.
  • [49:07] Mike: Okay, but but but what I'm asking I think that I understand um, but so let's say that you woman either rates herself or as some friends rate or male friends. Whatever on scale of 1 to 10 attractiveness and 1 to 10 everything except attractiveness like this lameness scale. You're this coolness scale. You're basically saying.
  • [49:26] Keith: Aha.
  • [49:26] Mike: Is the idea that she should sort of add those 2 numbers together and if she's above say a some certain number that she can have sex on the first date meaning. So let's say that the number was 15 You'd say okay, a woman who's sort of average attractive but is you know super smart, super interesting then she could. But if you're as you get less attractive.
  • [49:40] Keith: I don't think I think you're making this multivariate I think you're making this multivaried when it doesn't matter on average people are the same average are about the same attractiveness. Yeah I think so I think like if you if you take couples that are in their 20 s.
  • [49:49] Mike: Really you? What about like you take a woman.
  • [49:59] Keith: And you you look at the man you look at the woman. They're both generally within 1 or 2 points of each other on average.
  • [50:01] Mike: I see see you think you're assuming the woman will already have selected a man who's within 1 or 2 points of her attractiveness. So now it's just a question of okay okay okay I don't
  • [50:07] Keith: I mean I think for the sake of this conversation making it multivariate doesn't make it more interesting.
  • [50:14] Mike: I do think it makes it more interesting because you could have a man that's kind of more compelling on the more compelling side and a woman who's say overweight and kind of unattractive but is really cool and that woman could actually get the guy say that she meets at some party by having sex with them really quickly and then he finds out how cool she is like so in other words I think there. That that was why that was my thought process you're you're looking quizzical. Okay, a woman who's relatively not that attractive like she's sort of plain looking. She's maybe a 5 like there's some something about her that's not that attractive. There's a guy who's who's like 3 points above her so like normally or 4 points. Even she's like a 9.
  • [50:34] Keith: I Don't understand what you're saying white they aha fine fine gone Aha I got it go on.
  • [50:51] Mike: Okay, but she has something else about her. That's super awesome. Maybe she should fuck him immediately in order to because then because she would have the basic thought that getting as much interaction with this guy as I assume this is the reason you're saying that a woman who.
  • [50:53] Keith: Why.
  • [51:06] Mike: Because she has that thing you're saying where she has something else about her that may entrap him because she's sort of thrown herself at him. She's she's been as as available to him as possible and she believes Okay, once he finds out I'm a nuclear physicist. You know he's going to be like Shit. We're going to really smart kids really good conversations or whatever like. That that that's why I think it's Multivariate. Ok.
  • [51:26] Keith: Right? But that's why okay all right? But we're talking past a little bit each other here and this is probably boring radio but let me try to clarify briefly having sex with someone on a first date slightly lowers your attractiveness to the man. Ah, the the first time.
  • [51:38] Mike: Okay.
  • [51:43] Keith: Before a man has had sex with a new partner. They are often obsessed with having sex with that new partner and so this is not you know a a hard and fast rule. But it is about as close to it as you can possibly get the carrot of having sex with a man or having any sort of like sexual. Whatever.
  • [51:47] Mike: Agreed.
  • [51:54] Mike: Yes, yeah.
  • [52:02] Keith: And in the case of of of Susie here is is a powerful one like men will do a lot to try to get to that to that point so by having sex with someone you are removing that you are lowering your your value that is okay if you have value otherwise.
  • [52:06] Mike: Right? block.
  • [52:21] Keith: But if you don't you should maybe wait to.
  • [52:21] Mike: Okay, so you're going to argue that that's consistent across all levels of the attractiveness skill I Understand what you're saying okay I got it.
  • [52:28] Keith: Not necessarily but we should move on this is this is getting boring. Ah so in her case. Ah yeah I mean I think she shouldn't feel badly about this Also I think the horses have sort of left the barn. Um, she's already said to you know pictures and audio of herself masturbating. Um.
  • [52:44] Mike: She could just send them a link to the podcast and then he can hear us dissecting their their relationship and and her orgasm.
  • [52:46] Keith: But.
  • [52:53] Keith: Yeah I don't know how he would respond to that. Okay, she goes on she says Ah, okay so she sends us some screenshots of um I Guess sexy talk they're having with each other and like gosh I would not.
  • [53:03] Mike: Texts.
  • [53:08] Mike: Sexy to me.
  • [53:09] Keith: I would not what yeah sexting I would not um, want people to read this? Um, ah I don't really like sexting because I don't want.
  • [53:16] Mike: Do you have sex that you don't want people to read? Do you is there something that you like to say okay, okay, you just are always talking about their 3 holes probably so it's just constant references.
  • [53:27] Keith: I Don't want like a record of that. Ah.
  • [53:33] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, we'll we'll spin the wheel and choose one two or 3 Um, so yeah, and yeah, the the context of this sexting is kind of weird anyway. But there is one point where he says um, is he's talking about if he came inside of her and he said.
  • [53:35] Mike: Okay, so we've got some sexts here right.
  • [53:52] Mike: Um, me with.
  • [53:52] Keith: If I did would you play with it after I filled you up and completely soaked you and then she says see screenshots. What is it with guys and seeing girls play with their come. What makes it hot. Ah this is something I've never done before with a partner.
  • [53:55] Mike: Right? right? right.
  • [54:03] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [54:07] Keith: I'm into it if it turns him on because that turns me on and would rather hear'all's thoughts on how to do it and what makes it sexy versus digging through porn hub for a rare example featuring a couple people that doesn't gross me out Ha Ha I'm shallow but it's porn. So I feel like it's okay to be ah I definitely would not like it.
  • [54:20] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [54:25] Keith: Um, would not like it have not liked it in the past when people have played with my semen. It's not my.
  • [54:34] Mike: Wait You make you say that like it's like it's it's because it's your scene don't play with my semen but with your own semen. It's not that right? It's it's set exactly once you once you delivered it's theirs right? So I think that's fair.
  • [54:42] Keith: Go get your own.
  • [54:50] Keith: No I Yeah I'm I'm not expressing an ownership ah issue here. It um.
  • [54:54] Mike: Um, where is it when they're playing with it like what's the most irritating is it if they try to so like I mean they you could not on them. But you've already said you don't really want to do that. So I guess it's p I v.
  • [55:04] Keith: I've seen women I've seen women multiple times. Ah stick fingers inside themselves after I've nutted in there and then put them in their mouth.
  • [55:12] Mike: Yeah, that's what this guy wants her to do So why don't you like that.
  • [55:18] Keith: I don't I did not like is a little strong like I don't hate it I I would rather it not occur, but it's not. You know it's not like a disaster if it does That's yeah, that's basically it like I don't.
  • [55:25] Mike: Um.
  • [55:31] Mike: You're like look I put it there so it wouldn't get I wouldn't have to smell it later and now it's on your breath. Yeah yeah.
  • [55:38] Keith: 1 yeah, we talked about this earlier like once the semen is deposited I would like to pretend that you know nothing happened. This isn't helpful to Susie unfortunately.
  • [55:46] Mike: Right? So She yeah so I mean I think like she's asking why? Yeah no so I asked. Um I asked ah somebody that we mentioned this earlier with a titdy fucking nut that I should hold held off on that about this and his argument was he thought it was early exposure. To semen spraying everywhere in porn that made it more compelling to Him. He didn't have a very good answer for why this would be yeah I think that's possible um in the culture right? Exactly there's a certain it's it's certain parts of the us where semen spraying is more Popular. Um.
  • [56:05] Keith: Um, he learned that cultural value.
  • [56:20] Mike: Yeah I didn't like I maybe I didn't get that memo when I was of the when I was first viewing porn. Um, so what? yeah, what do guys get out of that. What I mean it's like people often talk about. Um.
  • [56:30] Keith: Um, it's the imposition of the semen. That's what they like.
  • [56:33] Mike: Well, it's okay I was going to say like the sort of accepting of the guy. So. It's like why why does it' it's's analogous if you ask yourself? Why does he want you to Swallow. It's analogous, right? It doesn't actually do anything where he can't feel the semen going down your throat. He's not there anymore's you know, but he likes it because it's sort of yeah, it's I like it because it's the imposition in that case. But I think there's also this kind of acceptance thing that guys want um and it's a similar thing if you play with it and so forth. Ah you you seem to be enjoying it. But I mean men get a lot of negative feedback in our lives about sex and our semen and our penises and so when you give positive feedback about it. It's hot. Although.
  • [56:54] Keith: Right.
  • [57:10] Keith: Right.
  • [57:13] Mike: This is this is very important. It's all happening after he's orgasm so does he really want you to do that when he's in the post not clarity. Maybe not, He definitely will find it hot and and when he sent you these messages he didn't write these messages right? after he came he wrote them like you know while he's thinking about you So there's that too. It's not I wouldn't.
  • [57:25] Keith: Right.
  • [57:32] Mike: Assume that he wants you to do that I would not I would try very hard not to be surprised if you go to do it and he's like oh yeah, and like we're unusually ah persicacious about us that the right word about this like we've thought about their perceptive about this so we know we thought we know though that it's not hot because we know we just nuted.
  • [57:44] Keith: Um, right.
  • [57:52] Mike: But you see he may not be thinking at that level of of detail.
  • [57:52] Keith: Um, right? Yeah I Wonder if it was just he was trying to amp up the hotness of his sexting and this was just a thing that he awkwardly said extemporaneously. Yeah.
  • [58:04] Mike: Um I don't know I bet. It's like kind of fetishy for him I could see a lot of things like this seeming hot when you're not in post-nut clarity I mean I think like I've said this in the show many times like I think I don't when I'm aroused like my own semen doesn't bother me and then when I become unaroused. Immediately really bothers me and up. But but now I know that it's sort of like with age you learn that get drinking too much gives you a hangover. So Then the drinking itself becomes a little less fun because you're like oh I'm doing this to myself. It's like that I now and I now can forecast my own feelings.
  • [58:21] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [58:28] Keith: Right.
  • [58:36] Keith: Right? All right? We're running a little low on time here. So let's let's keep going so okay, do you have like a just to like try to be helpful to Susie. Ah, if a woman were to play with your seaman. Can you in 30 seconds summarize what you would like to see her do with it.
  • [58:52] Mike: I would prefer I mean actually I think my preference would be for her to dispose of it. So I actually I mean the thing you describe no hang on I well.
  • [58:59] Keith: No, that's not no, no, she she needs advice for how to play with it.
  • [59:06] Mike: What I was going to say is that like so disposing of it can include putting it under her mouth. So like the thing you described that she thought was one of the least problematic things. The thing that I would like the least would be to kind of squat over her hand and then like rub it all you know so it comes out and then rub it all over her body that would not be great.
  • [59:08] Keith: Oh I see okay.
  • [59:20] Keith: Right? Or like wet wet make webs with it with her fingers like.
  • [59:25] Mike: Yeah, that's not good, but a woman like I mean the 2 things that I've seen that like that could be okay is the thing you mentioned not liking which I don't think I would like either but okay, she she sort of gets some vet out of her and not your favorite. Okay, it's neutral. Um, also like if she's giving you a blow and.
  • [59:33] Keith: Um, it's not that I don't like it's that it's That's neutral, right.
  • [59:43] Mike: She doesn't get it all in her mouth I'd prefer she got all in her mouth. But if she doesn't and there's some there and then she licks it up. That's sort of fine like's but again, it's I can I can I know that in the moment it won't be that great. So my biggest piece of advice is he probably doesn't really want this but you can play along and do something that.
  • [59:49] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [01:00:02] Mike: Um, isn't sort of neutral and then don't be surprised or offended if he it's not as great for him as he thought it was going to be um and certainly do not like go directly to like snowballing don't be like hey um you want to eat eat the cream pie. Do not do that.
  • [01:00:07] Keith: Right.
  • [01:00:18] Keith: Ah.
  • [01:00:19] Mike: Would be my strong advice. Do not go directly there now it could turn out that it's where he wants to go what you don't hear about that. That's fine. Well what's our time limit now. Okay.
  • [01:00:26] Keith: We did. We just no, we're just writing out of time. We don't have 1 but ok well at this point at this point we should cut that part out but like yeah like we should. We should try and get this because we have to still play the audio.
  • [01:00:37] Mike: Ah.
  • [01:00:45] Keith: And then there's like another thing to tackle here. So yeah, well she asks. But I mean I think I'll say like I'll just play it. Do it at the beginning of next episode. But yeah, like this notion that hot people can be good at sex. She seems offended that. Ah.
  • [01:00:48] Mike: What's that.
  • [01:01:04] Keith: We said that they are probably not on average as good you writing a time stamp down. Yeah.
  • [01:01:11] Mike: Yes, um, okay yeah I mean whatever you want to do I was the only thing I was going to do is I was going to add that we should um that something like I was going I was actually so thinking of saying something like um if you want the because we can talk over the audio we could say something like if you want the audio without us talking over it send us a screenshot of your subscription to the.
  • [01:01:27] Keith: Oh yeah, you should say that at the end that's a good idea. Okay, that's good idea. That's another good idea. Do you remember what you were saying the okay.
  • [01:01:28] Mike: Show I'll say it before we record before we play the audio so you can you can time back in whenever you just say say something and then time back in I I was pretty much done.
  • [01:01:45] Keith: Um, all right.
  • [01:01:46] Mike: You can how about this just say something like yeah, we and we you know we're running out of time so and then just and I can put that in wherever.
  • [01:01:52] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right? So we're running a bit low on time here. So let's move on she does ah bring up. Well let me read this just because I think it's a good lead in to the masturbation audio that she sent us. Ah.
  • [01:02:09] Keith: She says I should note that based purely on feedback I've aggregated from numerous hetero men over the years I am hot not crazy hot but my face body personal personality combo falls pretty solidly under the umbrella of hot so you know keep keep that in your mind while while you're listening to this and she goes on to.
  • [01:02:21] Mike: I agree.
  • [01:02:29] Keith: Talk about whether hot girls are as good at sex as um, less hot girls but let's let's let's tackle that at the beginning of our next episode. So all right I'm going to play this audio we may talk over it a little bit.
  • [01:02:45] Mike: Right? So so ah in in the spirit of our new curated amateur porn subredd and all that we do know there's some people that probably want to masturbate to this? Um, and maybe Keith will later. Also, um, if you want if you want the audio without us talking over it because we're definitely going to. Ah, we can send it to you but you'll need to send us an email at ymmvpod@gmail.com and include a screenshot of your so of of your iphone showing that you're subscribed or Spotify showing you subscribe to the podcast and then we'll send it over to you. We don't want you know? Yeah, we got. We got to get extract something from you. So.
  • [01:03:19] Keith: Right? Yeah, we accept Android as well, right? right? right? right? All right here we go I'm going to start playing this. So yeah, this is ah.
  • [01:03:20] Mike: yeah Spotify what yeah what whatever podcast player you use sure. But Apple's the best because it gets a search rankings.
  • [01:03:35] Keith: She sent this to her to her boyfriend right here. We go.
  • [01:03:37] Mike: Yes, hear the vibrator.
  • [01:03:44] Keith: Um, oh yeah, you're right.
  • [01:03:49] Mike: And he kind of moves around.
  • [01:03:51] Keith: Yeah, the.
  • [01:03:54] Mike: Do you think she's hamming it up.
  • [01:03:56] Keith: I Wonder how much of this is performative.
  • [01:04:07] Mike: Um, yeah, oh yeah, no, not like this right when I'm nutting I might say look 2 words.
  • [01:04:08] Keith: I mean do you talk when you masturbate Mike.
  • [01:04:25] Keith: Yeah, you can hear the vibrator I didn't notice that on my first listen. Yeah I think things seem to be accelerating here.
  • [01:04:29] Mike: She's like ah she's like holding her breath a little. Ah yeah yeah.
  • [01:04:41] Mike: Um I wouldn't turn it down if she sent me another one of these.
  • [01:04:51] Keith: Think yeah, this is this was a nice gift.
  • [01:04:52] Mike: Um, this guy's lucky. Yeah.
  • [01:04:59] Keith: I Think we've got about another minute here if I recall correctly. Yeah.
  • [01:05:03] Mike: Um, if she reaches sort of Peaks. It's It's very believable and that the vibrator in the vibrator sort of moves. You can tell it's the the tone of it changes from ah you are.
  • [01:05:13] Keith: The ah.
  • [01:05:17] Keith: And she she announces.
  • [01:05:20] Mike: Yeah, you're close. Yeah,, that's come for us. Go Ahead. You can do it.
  • [01:05:38] Keith: She right.
  • [01:05:38] Mike: She's like moving around. Yeah yeah, cut Jesus does listen to the breathing.
  • [01:05:46] Keith: Yeah, sounds like feet on a mattress there like moving the sheets. Yeah, right right.
  • [01:05:55] Mike: And now the vibbrator is like not it's sort of on the side Now it's a different tone. It's just in air. Well my can use I'm like the cia of this I can but tell you the shape of the room.
  • [01:06:04] Keith: Right? There's no friction forensically analyzing.
  • [01:06:17] Keith: I Don't know I don't think I made it this far.
  • [01:06:18] Mike: What's she doing Now she's.
  • [01:06:24] Keith: Oh that's why ok all right? not stop me guys stoping. Get yeah, that's funny.
  • [01:06:24] Mike: It's is it. It's repeating all right all right? Those it was good enough that it caused us to like just let it loop around it like.
  • [01:06:36] Keith: Right? right? right? Ok so yeah I mean we've been go it for a while here. But yeah, let's take a couple bits to analyze this so ok gun to your head now not gun to your head. Let's let's say you're like an odds maker in vegas.
  • [01:06:38] Mike: Like a Tiktok it could just keep going and we'll be like man this has taken long time.
  • [01:06:55] Keith: And you have to say you know, Ah, how likely is that that this person act actually had an orgasm.
  • [01:07:04] Mike: I'm going to go fifty fifty I want her to have had 1 but I know if it's an odds maker thing like I know that it's easy to fake. Um, it was. It's a really good fakery and and I would just add for um, Susie's benefit here the like my guess like an ordinary porn situation would be like.
  • [01:07:05] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:07:21] Keith: Right? Yeah, this is this is Mike being generous I mean you don't think you think she would lie to us like she would probably have mentioned that it was fake or she could have mentioned.
  • [01:07:21] Mike: 2% probable so like she's way above my like ordinary. Oh for sure.
  • [01:07:29] Mike: No, because sometimes people lie to themselves looks it's probably maybe it's 60% I think it's real. Actually so let's say 60% it's probably real. But yeah, but but it's it's I just know like there's such a tendency to to have something and then there's also like you have to throw in that.
  • [01:07:38] Keith: Sixty Forty k
  • [01:07:49] Mike: She' using a vibrator which suggested is real but like there's women who don't that don't really know what an orgasm is that happens so that yeah it is wow.
  • [01:07:50] Keith: Yeah. Um, um, yeah, I'm at like 80% and I'm I'm hesitant to say that because you know you're going to think that yeah I I'm more prone to think that women are having orgasms when they're not by.
  • [01:08:10] Mike: No I think I'm I'm okay with that percentage if you said 99 I'd be skeptical. Um, it's look this was very high quality I really liked it when she said god damn it even if it's not real I was like because it's like that that was a good touch whether it's fake or real because it suggested that it was overwhelming or.
  • [01:08:13] Keith: Bye.
  • [01:08:17] Keith: Um, yeah, all right.
  • [01:08:27] Keith: Um, right? Yeah yeah, that was that was good audio that would be a nice thing to receive from a from a partner.
  • [01:08:29] Mike: Was so much so much happening and I really liked that So I appreciated that.
  • [01:08:41] Mike: Um, or from the podcast you subscribe to so people can can email us a screenshot.
  • [01:08:43] Keith: Right? Yeah, if you guys want that if you want that audio without Mike and I beavis and butt hitting over over to over top of it. You'll have to.
  • [01:08:53] Mike: Like Mystery Science theater 3000 we want. Yeah and the reason it's it's actually to it's for you that you subscribe because ah that helps us in the search engine rank and in the rankings search rankings on the podcasts apps and various.
  • [01:09:03] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [01:09:08] Mike: Ecosystems and that actually helps encourage us to keep making content so you should want to subscribe as well. So it should be no skin off your nose or whatever no skin off your but.
  • [01:09:11] Keith: Um, right.
  • [01:09:16] Keith: Right? Yeah, and so you can ah you can reach us at y mmvpod on Twitter or at ymmvpod at gmail.com that's the place to ask us questions to send us erotic audio to send us nasty feedback. We particularly.
  • [01:09:32] Mike: Um, maybe we should ask them. Maybe we should ask them to review us on Apple Podcasts to get that audio just as description all right, all right cool all right good. Yeah.
  • [01:09:34] Keith: Go ahead I think a subscription is fine and that yeah we can we can work on other content teases going forward. Um, yeah, and if you give us feedback. We. Ah, somewhat famously pay $10 for any feedback we receive so just give us your cash up or venmo or however, you would like us to pay you in the email or tweet and that'll be a wrap on episode 111 of your mileage may vary. Thanks for listening.
  • [01:10:07] Mike: Um, isn't it hundred and ten it's hundred and ten key that of audio just like blew us all away when going to recalibrate. Yeah.
  • [01:10:09] Keith: Ah, was it 110 okay my I got my tabs messed up here all right? That's it for episode one ten thanks for listening and we hope to get you next week.