Your Mileage May Vary: Dating Advice, Validating Women In Bed, Stripper Aftermaths, Soho House Dreams

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith I am Keith my co-host is Mike hello mike so.
[00:08] Mike: Hello keith.
[00:12] Keith: On today's show we're going to be having a conversation with Celeste Moore Celeste hosts the down and dirty podcast which tackles the issues that men and women face in modern midlife dating. She's also a dating and image consultant. You can find her at C Lesse Moore welcome to the sorry celestemore dot com welcome to the show celeste.
[00:26] Mike: Um, yeah.
[00:27] Celeste: Hi Thanks for having me.
[00:31] Keith: You're welcome. We're excited to see where this conversation goes could you explain a little bit about how you became interested in creating a podcast focused on sex and dating for middle aged folks.
[00:43] Celeste: Yeah, totally. Um so I've been an image consultant for 15 years and prior to that I was certified as a matchmaker and I kind of put that on hold. Because I was quite young and inexperienced and didn't have the database to really be a successful matchmaker. Um I knew that it would kind of come back at some point so I really love the fact that.
[01:02] Keith: Sure.
[01:12] Celeste: I was able to take the dating side of image and really meld the 2 together and that's been kind of my little niche there and midlife just because it's kind of where I'm at so I'm you know pretty pretty comfortable with speaking about. Things that we go through at this age when you are dating.
[01:33] Keith: Okay, so we've collated a list of questions for you. Some are a little harder hitting than others. So let's start relatively easy anyway. So I've listened to.
[01:39] Celeste: Um, all right.
[01:46] Keith: Half dozen or so episodes of your podcast and I haven't heard you mention your own relationship status is that intentional.
[01:54] Celeste: Not really um I am single currently at the moment and you know yeah.
[01:57] Keith: Okay, yes, okay and what conversation topics. Do you like on a first date. Do you have a set of like go to questions or stories that you tell.
[02:09] Mike: This is particularly relevant to Keith.
[02:12] Celeste: yeah yeah I stay away from the heavy stuff. You know first date should really be about getting to know if you vibe with someone's energy if you there is some sort of attraction kind of you know. Really seeing the initial things about someone to really tell if they are someone that you're interested in getting to know that I'm on a second date. So I just like to have fun just have a good time.
[02:40] Mike: What would you? What would you recommend someone doing because this is is relevant to Keith we were talking about it before the show if if ah, let's say the guy shows up on time and the woman shows up 20 minutes late where the first date. How do you think the guy should behave himself when that happens.
[02:54] Celeste: Well, that's rude, no matter what and was there any kind of text message and it kind of thought like oh hey I'm running late like something.
[02:56] Keith: Agreed.
[02:59] Mike: Um, Keith was there a text message.
[03:05] Keith: Ah, so my general experience and I go on a lot of first dates is that people show up reliably late and they make various excuses and I think women may even.
[03:13] Celeste: And.
[03:19] Keith: You know intend to be 5 minutes late because they don't want to be there first? Um, but even if there is a text message like okay so I had a date earlier this week or I guess last at the end of last week and yeah she was she was about 25 minutes late and she texted me.
[03:24] Mike: Um, soon.
[03:39] Keith: About 5 minutes before she was supposed to arrive that she was going to be 15 minutes late because of traffic now. Um you know, maybe I mean the traffic traffic is a thing that occurs. But you know I somehow avoided that problem. Don't and then yeah shit I mean obviously I should probably calm down about this. It's ah and you know probably not bring it up and then you know and hope that it doesn't happen on a second date but my experience is because I go on somebody first dates and this happens basically 100% of the time. It's sort of death by a thousand cut. Cuts and I've accreted some amount of you know, built up irritation about this.
[04:21] Celeste: Oh yeah I can understand 25 minutes is quite late. Um, you know if there was like a fatality accident. Okay, let's brush it off right? If there's something really serious, but you're saying this happens a hundred percent of the time so that 5 minutes
[04:26] Keith: Sure right? right? right? yeah.
[04:36] Celeste: Okay I do think women don't want to be first waiting a hundred percent so 5 minutes okay
[04:38] Keith: Um, yeah.
[04:41] Mike: There's there's something we should say though about what's going on here which is that I think and Keith correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that the median age difference of women that he's going on first dates with is significant meaning that Keith is. Dating women that are substantially younger than him and so my my uneducated somewhat educated theory here would be that these are women who view themselves as very high value and basically and actually I could see that you know it might not be a great strategy for a guy to be irritated and frustrated with women showing up like in other words, they may feel like it's a. They're they're doing something where he can't possibly complain about it. Oh I guess the question there is is is are the rules on this different for a man versus a woman and are the rules different if it's a significantly younger woman in particular.
[05:19] Keith: So what's the question.
[05:20] Celeste: Yeah, yeah.
[05:35] Mike: I Guess you could yeah go ahead.
[05:35] Keith: Um.
[05:35] Celeste: There's there shouldn't be any rules based on gender based on age you are going to get a different type of woman when you're dating someone quite younger than yourself I I'm a hundred percent this is true.
[05:48] Keith: Yeah.
[05:50] Celeste: They don't respect. Um I'm going to tell you right now? What it is is they they are thinking you are getting me as a hot date. You are older and you should be appreciated if I even show up it is. It's terrible. But it's what's going through your head this what's going through their head.
[06:00] Mike: Here we go.
[06:02] Keith: Right? there it is right? if it yeah and if I react badly Well I'm and I mean it's It's frustrating to me because um.
[06:09] Mike: Ah, Keith what's going through your head I know what's going through Keiths head. It's really interesting. Go ahead.
[06:10] Celeste: Okay, okay.
[06:19] Keith: My general experience is most of the time if not all effectively all of the time people want to go on second date. So it's really just this first date problem and I think you're right I think the women their experience is they are high value. They can behave generally. However they like and there's little consequence. Um, and it's not until they've decided that I am also high value that their behavior becomes a little bit more.
[06:46] Mike: So are you somehow devaluing yourself by showing up on time. In other words shouldn't you both show up late because you are also high value. You're just high value in the masculine sense right? which would have various traits associated with that I'm sure if Celeste has views on what would make a man a high value. Ah. Ah, potential David Keith certainly views himself in that light.
[07:07] Keith: Well whole on First of all I think being on time is part of being reasonably. Yeah, as especially as a man like you know like I I'm organized I have you know, decent executive functioning skills. Um, and so if I was the kind of person that.
[07:11] Mike: Like high value.
[07:20] Mike: Ah ha.
[07:25] Keith: Routinely flaked on dates or showed up. You know 25 minutes late or you know it was dressing like a schlub or whatever it is like those are things that I think would devalue me in the long run. Anyway.
[07:34] Celeste: Yeah now I think everybody should be on time I don't care 10 minutes like you know what? I really think there's a little bit of a cushion god forbid something happens right? Other than that be on time. Be respectful if you're a high value woman or a high value man you all you do.
[07:34] Mike: But if you're go ahead.
[07:54] Celeste: That is something that um is just natural right? Nobody has time to waste or I don't want to waste time I don't want to waste yours I don't want to waste mine. Um, my question for you is Why is it just these one dates. What's going on that you're not going on second dates.
[08:01] Keith: Yeah, um.
[08:11] Mike: Oh he is.
[08:13] Keith: Um, I mean I I I go on some second dates I would say so I go on a lot of dates I I have like I cast like a fairly wide Net I guess and I'm dating dating doesn't make me anxious and so um.
[08:15] Celeste: Ah, we okay.
[08:22] Celeste: Okay.
[08:30] Keith: I guess rather than carefully vetting each individual person I'd rather you know, let's just go get lunch or something and and find out if there's some chemistry here. Um, and then. So yeah I think that is probably the main that yeah the main problem for why I am ah removing people from second tape consideration is that my filter for first date consideration is probably not as stringent as maybe other people's is. Are.
[09:06] Celeste: Will you just said something there that you said that you're dating just to like let's just go get lunch. You're not really like okay this is who I Want. You're not really crystal clear. Are you not are you not dating to have ah a long-term relationship. Are you just dating to. Have company and have fun.
[09:26] Keith: Um I think I understand what you're asking. Ah I think my answer to that is both I'm um, of course I would like to meet some sort of life partner that you know blows me away in all in all facets of. What a relationship can be I you know I'm 42 and and single so you know I'm not so I'm not so naive as to think that you know every first date has good chances of getting there and so in the meantime you know if i.
[09:46] Celeste: Ah.
[10:02] Keith: You know I'm dating for you know hopefully I'll meet that you know 1% person but if it turns into something platonic if it turns into some sort of short-term fling. Yeah you know I'm sort of open to a variety of potential outcomes.
[10:18] Celeste: Sure I would agree with kind of that but I would just moving forward I think you should probably date for more serious relationship because it sounds like that's what you want? um and in that you'll.
[10:29] Keith: Yeah.
[10:34] Celeste: Because high value men respect their time. They respect their um you know there's There's a whole list of who you are when you're a high value man and then that's who you're going to be attracting but because you haven't been really crystal clear or stringent or however, you want to say it about your dates. That's why she's not. She's not coming through because you're just like okay well whatever happens if she comes great if not I'm I'm having fun with you know I'm having a good lunch with a pretty woman. Yeah.
[10:55] Keith: Um, yeah, right.
[11:03] Keith: Right? Yeah, perhaps I should add some more intentionality to my to my efforts. Um, okay I will I will take this into into consideration. Let's move on. Okay, so.
[11:11] Celeste: Only if you choose to only if you want to you know.
[11:20] Keith: Um, what is your take on modern dating Apps I don't know if you've heard any of our discussions about um ah the sort of sugar dating websites. But I'd be sort of curious. What your feelings are about those as well.
[11:36] Celeste: Well I've even used them myself a long time ago. Ah, and they're probably like the least I mean it's literally just a transaction. You know those are like here I'm going to school I'm doing whatever.
[11:36] Keith: Sure.
[11:53] Celeste: Pay my bills. Let's let's have some type of you know relationship? Um, that's a completely different type of relationship. So you know if you're talking about hinge or bumble or all the other ones. Yeah I mean I imagine there's probably somebody on there looking for.
[11:59] Keith: And date.
[12:05] Keith: Um, yeah.
[12:12] Celeste: Ah, young woman and wanting to take care of her or something but it's not as crystal clear. It's more let's date. Let's get to know each other we have you know money is is only brought up to say that if um I only date guys in this you know bracket because that's what I want in my life and that's where I'm at in my life.
[12:29] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[12:30] Mike: So are you trying to suggest there are relationships that are not transactional.
[12:31] Celeste: So.
[12:38] Celeste: Ah, even marriages are transactional. So I think yeah, yeah, yeah.
[12:39] Mike: Right? Well, that's sort of my point I mean is it? Yeah I mean so but but I think you're drawing a distinction there that ah that there's some sort of other thing that that's ah, that's attainable.
[12:51] Celeste: Right? I think with like a sugar daddy app or sugar baby I don't forget the names of those um you know there's there's one there's 1 particular goal and on the other apps. There's like okay maybe I'm dating for marriage not to say marriage is not a transaction.
[13:04] Mike: Right.
[13:06] Celeste: But I want someone who has the same life goals life values life. You know, um belief system as I do and maybe have a future maybe have a family you know, whatever that looks like where I'm not saying that someone can't fall in love on a sugar daddy app or whatever but the intention already is there is like. This is what it looks like this is what it will be and it's kind of hard not like it's kind of hard to say oh it. It could be more than that.
[13:35] Mike: so so I think there's like implicit in that there's a notion that a relationship that's based on um 1 person providing for the other is like less valuable than one where they're not doing that.
[13:44] Celeste: Um, because they don't bring anything else to the table. There's no other requirements right? That's very it's very black and white I mean there's probably some gray in there I'm not saying there's not but it's it's got you know.
[13:56] Keith: Yeah.
[14:00] Celeste: It doesn't have the potential future that another app would have.
[14:05] Mike: What do you think about that Keith.
[14:11] Keith: I Think in general she's right I think that it sort of Depends. What intention you bring to each app right? So people can use tinder for hooking up, especially younger folks and people can use seeking to find their husband or wife. Um. But in general, she's probably right that the intentions that people bring to you chap differs a bit. Um I don't I'm not sure I mean I've used seeking a bunch but I've never had a quote unquote. Arrangements I've I've never given someone money to go on a date with me. Um.
[14:49] Mike: I Think you didn't you give money to someone to not go on a date with you once.
[14:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah, she needed help with she needed help with something with her cat or something her I'm putting something with her cat and quote she was probably just rinsing me. Um, yeah I Yeah I don't know I I wish that.
[14:56] Mike: So he did do that.
[15:14] Keith: Wish there were some way to bridge the gap between ok so Celeste here's a problem that I think I have I think that I am in an interesting kind ah generous cultured. Ah you know I've been to therapy for for for years like I think I'm like a ah.
[15:19] Celeste: Okay.
[15:33] Keith: You know, somewhat eligible bachelor I think that the female experience on dating apps is pretty poor so you know they have this avalanche of interest in them right? like half the people they swipe on have already swiped yes on them and they ah.
[15:52] Keith: You know? So. There's this you know their inbox has you know dozens or hundreds of people in it and they can't really figure out which ones are going to be interesting to date or not and so they go on dates the vast majority of these dates are. Underwhelming or disappointing for various reasons and so then they get cynical. They start showing up late to future dates they you know but are putting less effort in because their general experiences that dating is awful. Okay, on the male side. Ah I swipe a hundred times I get 2 matches I try to say something clever and witty. They. May or may not just respond based on you know again, they have hundreds of people in their inbox It's not that I'm like not interesting to them. It's that how are they even supposed to find the interesting person in their hundreds of matches. So the nice thing about um, seeking and some of the other sugaring websites is. It yeah because of the implied quid pro quo which again I've never actually engaged in anyway. Um, but it's much more expensive for men to be on there so it it it already filters out you know three quarters of the losers because it's like it's like a hundred dollars a month or something for the men. Um.
[16:54] Celeste: Ah.
[17:03] Celeste: Oh Jesus. Okay.
[17:06] Keith: And so what happens is there's like 4 or 5 times as many women as there are men and because of the implied quid pro quo they're much more likely to be responsive. Um, and I say early on like look um I'm going to pay for dinner and you know I pay for various odds and ends and like I you know I think I'm a generous person. And you know I believe in some ah you know old fashioned values or traditional values and you know some women are like you know fuck off, you should go back to Christian Mingle or whatever. Um, this is ah this is an arrangement website.
[17:36] Celeste: Ah, cheap.
[17:37] Keith: But some women are are and some women and more than I'm able to find on Tim Tinder and bumble in hinge and okcubid and you know sort of all the normal large apps. Yeah I find that ah it's a better place for dating and I don't know why I just give my whole thesis on this but I don't know if you have any response to that.
[17:55] Celeste: So you find better results on seeking versus all the other ones. That's what you're telling me.
[18:00] Keith: Yeah, and it bothers me because um.
[18:03] Mike: I think it's great I do because I think that it's people being more honest, the the ah there is a very widespread view and Keith is saying he swipes right? It's right if you're saying yes right? Ah, a hundred times and gets and gets to.
[18:14] Keith: I Can't remember I think it fares by app.
[18:20] Mike: I think there's this very substantial set of people who swipe a hundred times and get 0 amen I mean and so yeah, then there there becomes this question of how does it's essentially like email before spam filters a woman basically has an email inbox. It's just full of spam and there's two problems there actually the first problem is how do they filter out.
[18:25] Celeste: Um, and.
[18:33] Celeste: Ah.
[18:39] Mike: And find a guy that's compelling the second one is what happens to all the guys that I'm calling spam because there's actually a bunch of guys who like I'm just you're just dropping on the floor because there definitely is this phenomenon that ah you could see this in the data from that's been released by some of the dating apps that ah, there's a large proportion of men that basically no one swipes right On. Ah, meaning no women Snope swipe right on them.
[18:59] Celeste: Oh I believe it too I think they have terrible pictures I think they have a terrible bios I Think what they're saying is not what they actually mean um, their intentions are not what the bio says I think it's a ah lot of things I think.
[19:11] Mike: You don't think it's just that like there may be being honest and the woman doesn't want to date like a guy who's like a custodian at a school I mean I'm just being honest like I don't think like in other words I think dating apps create this really vast asymmetry between women and men sorry that's wrong, not between men I didn't mean that not between men.
[19:18] Celeste: Could be I mean no, it definitely good I quiet or.
[19:30] Mike: Asymmetry between men sort of men of means and men who lack means whereas in a normal life. You would meet in a bar or something. The guy has a chance to kind of show. He's got a personality or whatever nowadays. It's like look what's your job and so I think in some ways.
[19:34] Celeste: Ah.
[19:46] Mike: Seeking is just bringing that all out in the open. It's like all right, Let's just mess stop pretending that what you're but I'm sure you disagree with this but like you're saying to women. Let's stop pretending that you want a good bio in good photos. What you really want is me to demonstrate that I have the money to afford a tesla and ah, whatever other garbage people buy.
[19:49] Keith: Um.
[19:56] Keith: I Want now.
[20:01] Celeste: Ah.
[20:04] Mike: But I mean I think that there's an element of that I think you disagree So go ahead.
[20:09] Celeste: No I I do and I don't because I do feel that um as someone that's successful and has gone through you know, kind of roller coaster in my life I want to date someone that is not necessarily. Has to make the same amount of money or has to be 10 times more but there's a certain level of professionalism certain level of you know education that went involved and where I'm at and and I think that with seeking. You can get just like the sugar baby right? who just has has got like 5 or 6 other guys. You know, don't think you're the only one because that's for sure she know she's like going through a few and I'll see you one day and I'll see you another day and she's just working the system too.
[20:54] Keith: Right? right? right.
[20:59] Celeste: I Think that you are I think you need to meet people actually offline in different situations and put yourself in the Soho house or wherever it is that you're looking to meet someone that's at at a little bit different level of and maybe that doesn't matter to you but women. As we get older and as we were successful in our careers or whatever it is that we want to do don't want to date a Custodian and it's not because that he's you know such a loser from his job is just what am I going to talk to him about what do we have in Common. What are our values I mean he's happy you know cleaning toilets. I Don't know what what we're really going to talk about. So I think there's it's I think there's layers think of solely money. Yeah.
[21:37] Keith: Ah, right.
[21:37] Mike: I Don't think that's true I think it's the other thing I think it's the money it could be I think it might be I think it might be I think there could be a guy like for example, a guy who so custodians like maybe and not a very nice example because it but there could be a guy who has some very complex job is like an airplane mechanic but doesn't make very much money. And they and they'd still be like oh there's nothing to talk about. It's like well sort of I mean but this person actually is responsible for all this stuff. But I do one of the things you said that I I liked was I think you're suggesting and this is frightening for the young Generation. You're suggesting people like. Go join an activity to meet people instead of going on a dating app I think that's where you're headed. That's I can't suggest that and people you know so all got to be on the internet.
[22:14] Celeste: Hell yeah.
[22:18] Celeste: I Highly think that the people that you put around yourself who you surround yourself where you surround yourself. You're going to find that person if that's where you want to be so for me. For example, you know I don't golf. But you know a country club or I'll play tennis or you know meeting like-minded people. It's something that I find interesting self-growth self-improvement I'm going to go you know do something with those people and I think.
[22:46] Mike: You're not trying to meet people through going on sex and relationship podcasts and podcasting yourself. That's not your plan.
[22:53] Celeste: Ah I mean you know I have a lot of cool guests on my show. So um, you know there's there's certain like hobbies and and and you don't have to like everything that this person likes. There's just got to be a level of a certain level that you guys are on the same.
[22:58] Mike: Um, I hear you though like yeah basically yeah.
[23:09] Celeste: Path the same wavelength. So if you're interested in dating and twenty five year olds and you're 42 that's great have fun but I don't think that it's it's probably a very small percentage that she's going to be wifey.
[23:10] Keith: Okay.
[23:11] Mike: Yeah.
[23:21] Keith: Hypothetically. Fair enough Mike Do you know what? the Soho house is.
[23:28] Mike: I well I know Soho is south of Houseton Street in New York that's sort of impressive.
[23:34] Keith: Yeah, so so Mike Mike's pop culture knowledge is a little bit limited I had to explain to him what a what? what? a white claw was um, a few episodes back? Um, anyway, he now knows it a white claw so soho house they have they have multiple locations right? and.
[23:38] Celeste: Okay.
[23:49] Celeste: Yes.
[23:52] Keith: I think and like most not most but many um, sort of affluent cities and is it a is it. Ah, it's like a hotel and a club and a pool or something.
[23:59] Celeste: Yes, so it's a very like boutique hotel membership kind of only creatives film directs. You know there's a lot of different categories. But yes, so there's like 2 or 3 in l a or something I don't know.
[24:13] Mike: I think this sounds like wait to wait wait wait wait remember Keith I told you the story about those 2 women on the ski lift that were talking about something and I found them intolerable. It was this it was this it was Soho house. They were just going on and on because they were they they were talking about how they both had sex with some crypto executive who have not going to name.
[24:13] Keith: Importantly.
[24:21] Keith: Yeah, yes, yeah.
[24:32] Mike: But I looked him up later and indeed he's some you know luminary if you like that stuff. Ah, and um, the one was saying to the other. Oh he's He's just a player but.
[24:45] Mike: Then then they talked in kind of detail about the sex they had with them with me on the lift. It was a 3 person lift I was like how do I get off of this thing. It was the soho house though they did talk about that. So yeah.
[24:49] Celeste: I Want to jump.
[24:53] Keith: Um, yeah, wait for it to get. Yeah, So it's um, it's I don't know how much it cost. There's a monthly fee I think or maybe it's annual but it's super expensive and it's popular amongst I'm going to use language here that like people won't like but it's. Popular amongst men looking for young goal digging women and the goal digging women like going there because it basically sorts out men who aren't rich like you sort of have to be rich to even be a member there and then for the men the women who go there are sort of.
[25:13] Mike: Have.
[25:27] Keith: Self-selecting as women who like really care about the kind of people that would have a membership at Soho house and so yeah, it's it's almost like ah um or an offline version of seeking except with the table stakes being much higher.
[25:33] Mike: Well so you're arguing that it is yeah you're arguing it's offline version of seeking and celeste is arguing. It's like that. Totally reasonable place to find a friend so there's got to be some yeah I'm very curious about her response to that because I don't think she'll agree.
[25:41] Keith: I liked that juxtaposition and I'm curious about her response.
[25:52] Celeste: So I am a member but solely because I'm very creative and I want to make light-minded people I think it's great I've only lived in Austin for like not quite 2 years so for me, um I finally became a member I was like woo.
[26:06] Keith: Right? yep.
[26:08] Celeste: Like you have to know people and they have to suggest you and you know it's like a whole stupid thing. Ah and so for me and then a lot of it's for business I think everybody has a reason why they're a member for Sure. You know they like to be around Bougie people or they like to have. They're looking for something whether it's dating whether it's like you know I'm looking for someone to produce my film or if it's like up and coming musicians or it's really private like you can't if you're a star you want to stay at a hotel like this versus not because you don't you cut out a lot of the bullshit. So.
[26:44] Mike: Um, Keith it's it says it's two hundred and thirty dollars a month which is less than my swim club.
[26:45] Celeste: Pretty as a reason.
[26:48] Keith: Ah, ah.
[26:51] Celeste: it's about 35 to $4000 a year so yeah it's it's no it's not too bad. It's like a friend of mine. She became a member. She's like an instructor to spin class and she's you know the super hot girl and her her boyfriend.
[26:54] Mike: That's not very much.
[27:08] Celeste: Went to sign up to be a member and he got denied because he's like um, a banker. Ah so if you have a boring job. They won't accept you Regardless of you know? yeah.
[27:13] Keith: Oh no, oh mad the the indignity. Yeah um huh I should um I don't think there is one in San Francisco but
[27:24] Celeste: In tamran.
[27:26] Mike: I'm not seeing one in San Francisco although they have names like the electric house. So it's hard to tell where they are.
[27:30] Keith: Yeah, there is there is a similar club in San Francisco that basically serves as ah as a soha so I just can't remember what it's called all right? Let's move on. Um, you talk about sexting in one of your q and a episodes and you seemed fairly.
[27:37] Celeste: Oh I'm sure. Yeah, anyways.
[27:47] Celeste: Ah.
[27:48] Keith: Pro sexting. So Ah I have I have a series of questions here some of which you may want to engage with some of which you don't but I'll just lay them all out here. So What are some of your favorite things to do to turn a man on when sexting what can a man do to turn you on and do you ever want pictures from a man and if so. Of what.
[28:08] Celeste: I definitely am not a dick pit girl I don't know why that is a thing I don't know it's not a beautiful thing to look at sorry men. It's not it serves a purpose but you know okay, well yeah, majority. Let's put 99% out there.
[28:11] Keith: Yeah I don't know who is yeah.
[28:19] Keith: Mine is. But in general you're correct there. We go.
[28:28] Celeste: Do I think women are beautiful. Okay, yeah, do you want to look at something that's on them I just feel that sexting can really start as foreplay and I think there's such a lack of foreplay today. You know it's there's there's something so wonderful about the buildup you know sex is so much better.
[28:41] Keith: Yeah.
[28:48] Celeste: Everything is so much better. So why not start with doesn't have to be so naughty at first it can just be little flirts and continue it and then you know I guess as the heat builds. It can be hott and heavy. You can choose to Facetime at that point or see each other later. It really depends on. You know, kind of where your relationship is if you're traveling or if you're just at work and you're going to come home later and you know turn around that way.
[29:13] Keith: So I'm on board I'm on board with this conceptually.. It's the actual executing of clever unique of sexts that don't sound awkward that I struggle with so ah maybe you're uncomfortable doing this too. But do you. Yeah, can you give any like specific things that you think are like sort of small medium and high heat.
[29:36] Celeste: Yeah I would say this is probably not good if you just met someone because I think this is coming from a guy a woman's perspective comes off as creepy comes off as like it's really a big turnoff.
[29:42] Keith: Right.
[29:47] Keith: Okay.
[29:53] Celeste: Um, if you're looking if you okay say you're dating for a couple weeks and like I would just say you know good morning. Beautiful I can't you like what do you worry like what do you? you know, just you look great. Your ass looks so good in those jeans like Wow I'm so turned on.
[29:55] Keith: Sure.
[30:01] Keith: Sure. Okay. Yeah.
[30:09] Celeste: Can't wait to see you later you know am I making you you know telling her how much you desire her telling her how much she turns you on is very very nice.
[30:16] Mike: This this is someone you just met or you you you met recently? you knew in relationship but how would you know what her she's wearing.
[30:25] Celeste: No something that you've like you look so great in those genes we were just out the other night the night before right? you've dated her for a month or 2 or something so it's not like this is super super new because.
[30:28] Mike: Oh I get it's past tense.
[30:32] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[30:34] Keith: Right.
[30:37] Mike: So you want her. The woman wants me to be thinking or the man to be thinking about her have her image in their head. That's.
[30:44] Celeste: Yes, yes, she wants she she wants to be desirable when she finds that person that she wants to date. She wants to know that you're thinking about her and only her at that point.
[30:56] Mike: At she wait say I hang on to say you said she wants to know that or to think that because it's not true. What it isn't true. Ok, but but okay.
[31:03] Celeste: Wants right? Okay, we all know that we want to feel desired by you.
[31:11] Keith: Okay, yeah, there's a suspension of disbelief Mike.
[31:15] Mike: It's a feeling though. Ok is that right? It's not. It's I Thought maybe there was something I'm supposed to feel that I'm not feeling and that I'm sort of which is probably true. That's ok, you can move on.
[31:30] Keith: Like's been married for twenty plus years or something is it 20 wait. How um how many years have you been married 15 Yeah, all right a while? Um, okay so right I'm that's really nice of you to say Mike I'm sure.
[31:35] Mike: It's a while.
[31:39] Mike: I Don't think of any other women between between most of the time I have for go on go on.
[31:50] Keith: Before to file the divorce papers after this episode. Okay, um, so you have worked in a strip club in the past. Um, oh all, right? go ahead. Do you want to turn the screws on Celestster go ahead.
[31:52] Mike: Now.
[31:56] Celeste: Yes.
[31:57] Mike: Wait I wanted to hear the hot text was that the hot would you meet it I can say I can say one that I think is hot.
[32:02] Celeste: Okay, okay I want to hear what you think is hot and I'll let you know if that's acceptable or not no from you like if you were to text your wife something. What would you say.
[32:08] Keith: I do too I'm a little afraid.
[32:09] Mike: Wait from a woman.
[32:18] Mike: Like um wouldn't I wouldn't sex. It wouldn't be sexed. You're you're saying if I tried to like construct a hot text right now that was super hot. Um it Yeah I mean Okay, ah.
[32:24] Celeste: Yeah.
[32:32] Celeste: But you know what turns are on right by now.
[32:34] Mike: <unk>s see. Yeah, but it's what you know it's not going to be that funny or that clever it's going to be like you know? Oh you Wow I Really appreciate you picking up the kids.
[32:47] Celeste: That's going to make her like spread her legs and be super wet for you and let's go. Ah.
[32:50] Keith: Yeah, ah right.
[32:51] Mike: I Think so I think that's how it works I think so because it's because because it's like ah it's like um, well it's.
[33:00] Keith: Acts of service. Love language.
[33:02] Mike: And you know well no, it goes along with the thing you said before of like looking for a person who's like a friend and like a partner and stuff like that. This is actually what I think I mean I can make up I've no I'm not embarrassed to say some some sexed here but I actually think that no matter what I wrote it would be taken poorly I don't think that people who have been married a long time are sitting around sexting like.
[33:02] Celeste: Ah.
[33:17] Celeste: And and and.
[33:22] Mike: You know, hey baby you know bend you over the counter later or something that's not I don't think that's common. Do you think it is common.
[33:31] Celeste: Um I don't think it's common. That's why you know it kind of dies and doesn't get spicy I think there's a lot of ways that you can spice up a 20 year old you know sex life. So I think there's different ways.
[33:42] Keith: Take some notes Mike.
[33:42] Mike: Huh that don't involve a new person because I okay but okay Keith you own hot texts. You want to say? do you send any.
[33:47] Celeste: Yeah.
[33:52] Keith: No no I don't I started this ah the premise of this conversation was I don't know what to say so I receive many and I send few because I don't I think I don't know.
[34:03] Celeste: What do you receive from these women I would like to know at least 1 what are they saying to you.
[34:09] Mike: Yeah, me too I get I get sex from women. We got a that There was a woman who texted me because she mistakenly thought I was somebody else. Um.
[34:14] Keith: Um, what do they say here looking at my phone here I'm filibustering for a moment does it count Mike.
[34:25] Celeste: Ah, that's also ah.
[34:26] Mike: And I she said I asked if I was free next week. Let's go to dinner and I was like okay and goes on from there but it was just some random person in the two seven zero area code. Yeah Keith apparently gets gets Keith you've sent me ones before that you got.
[34:34] Celeste: Ah, okay.
[34:43] Mike: They usually send pictures Honestly, they send pictures.
[34:44] Keith: Yeah I'm trying to think of a of a this one is this one is not um, that hot. But it's a good example of something I'm not exactly sure how to respond to? Okay, um.
[34:45] Celeste: Yeah.
[34:54] Mike: Here we go. This is good.
[34:54] Celeste: Okay, oh that's a good one I can help you respond to it. You tell me what it is.
[35:01] Keith: Says Thank you again for dinner making it my way and the sexy times after I'm very looking forward to seeing you again. So yes I think being kind to the person.
[35:12] Mike: Are you fixing the grammar there.
[35:19] Keith: I think I'm supposed to respond something like affirming ah of yeah I think I'm supposed to respond something affirming maybe dialing it up slightly or at least keeping it at the same level like I can't just say like sure anytime me too right? like that would not be the right level of response. So.
[35:37] Celeste: No, not if she's yeah but I want to know what this sexy thing was can you be She doesn't know you don't have to say names what they know what they actually said on the text. Yes, he.
[35:39] Keith: Can you help me celeste.
[35:44] Mike: What they did during sex. No no, he did oh you you you? you're saying you skipped something. No I think she actually said the sexy times.
[35:51] Keith: No, no, no, no, no, no yeah, she did say the sexy times I Yeah she didn't name any I There were some grammar errors in her text that I cleaned up but I didn't change that I didn't change the context. Yeah, why is this? Why is this relevant.
[36:00] Celeste: Oh okay I understand so the sexy times was did you guys get it on is the oral because sexy.
[36:10] Keith: Um.
[36:10] Mike: It'sprintnna be probably? Ah, it's gonna be probably p I v sex and then she either did or did not have an orgasm and Keith and I could debate that. Okay, it's relevant to me.
[36:16] Celeste: Okay, so okay, cool. That's all all I wanted to know sexy time could be like you just had a hot makeout session like so that's very big. Okay.
[36:16] Keith: No, it was both. There was oral and then P I V I don't see why this is relevant but sure fine. Okay, right? okay.
[36:30] Celeste: So she wants to be reaffirmed that she was also good in bed on and that you.
[36:33] Mike: Oh that's interesting. Did you catch that Keith that. That's what she wanted know good.
[36:33] Keith: Are. No No I Felt how can a woman I mean shouldn't she just presume that I had a good time.
[36:45] Celeste: No, because was a state one.
[36:49] Keith: Why is feel like be. It was not the first date it. It was it was an it was an early date but not 1 It was a number greater than one less than five I don't want to be any more specific than that.
[36:51] Celeste: It matters because it sounds like it was date one. Okay so I can see it.
[36:53] Mike: Um I Want to know this too.
[37:01] Mike: Okay, like ah.
[37:01] Celeste: Okay, okay so I guess my point is she is at least wanting to go out with you again. She had a great time. She wants to know that you desire her and that you're ready to like go on and have the same thing happen again.
[37:13] Keith: Ah.
[37:14] Mike: But what could he say back to her that indicated that she was good at sex.
[37:19] Celeste: Well do you feel? Do you feel that the same way. Do you feel the same way like I just I prefer honesty and I think everybody does at this point in our lives.
[37:28] Mike: Okay.
[37:28] Keith: I am interested in seeing this person again I am not do I feel do I feel the same way. Yes I am interested. Yeah.
[37:33] Celeste: You don't know where it's going to lead but you're interested and okay.
[37:37] Mike: I I Just want to know how he validates how specifically he would validate that she was good in bed which is what you said she wants to hear so I want to know what like kinds of thing other than he can't send a dick pic.
[37:43] Celeste: So it's not as it's not like oh yeah, you suck my cock really great and I'm super happy like that was great. She yeah she wants to know Yes, his response I had a great time. Dinner was.
[37:52] Mike: Okay.
[37:53] Keith: Ah, it's an 8 out of 10 cocksuing right.
[38:00] Celeste: Great I Really enjoyed getting to know you more intimately I want to go on another date with you or something like that.
[38:04] Mike: That indicates she was good in bed I'm I'm thinking about posting a video of us on my subreddit or I already did.
[38:06] Keith: I can't I can't stop thinking about your body is that too much.
[38:12] Celeste: Yeah, no, yes you know it's yeah, it's kind of reaffirming like how sexy yes I I can't stop thinking about the other night I can't wait to see you again.
[38:15] Keith: Okay, yeah.
[38:23] Keith: Okay.
[38:23] Mike: So basically anything really explicit is off the table here.
[38:29] Celeste: Unless she is specifically talking to you that way.
[38:34] Keith: I think I think there needs to be like ah an increase in temperature like you you don't want you don't want to like jump too far with 1 text you you want to sort of like there's some. There's some sort of cat and mouse game where you know you're slowly bringing the temperature up.
[38:35] Mike: Um, ah.
[38:42] Celeste: Right.
[38:50] Celeste: So she she said to you that she was really into you. She had a great time and she can't wait to see you again Now you need to know if if you you said you want to see her again and so you just yes great I had such a great time I can't wait to see you again.
[38:52] Keith: Think.
[38:58] Keith: Um.
[39:09] Celeste: Looking forward to our next date when are you available? yeah.
[39:10] Keith: Okay.
[39:12] Mike: That feels a little ah simp to me doesn't it Keith oh no am I I meant yeah like you're right that he should. He should be like a little more red pill than that just to put it bluntly. That's a rough way to say it. But like yeah that he should he should if he's too.
[39:14] Keith: Oh like I'm being too I'm too I'm too interested.
[39:24] Celeste: Ah, yeah I mean.
[39:28] Mike: Like happy about it then she'll pull back and be like why? Why is he doing this? yeah.
[39:31] Keith: Some amount of disinterest could be compelling.
[39:31] Celeste: Yeah, but you I don't think you should you know, be texting again and again and again or like too eager but you need to reaffirm that you felt the same. You had a great time.
[39:40] Mike: Okay, for.
[39:45] Keith: Okay, there's some goldilock zone where you're what I actually sent now I'm going to leave that it it.
[39:49] Celeste: There's got to be.
[39:49] Mike: Can you tell us what you in fact, did Keith it's like yeah, it's like this is like um you know some game show. You're not going to tell it but just in general what was the tone what you sent a dick pic didn't you.
[40:01] Keith: No I to times. Um.
[40:02] Mike: Okay, what did you? What was the tone like did you how close were you how close for you to what celeste recommended here. Not close.
[40:07] Keith: No I think what I said was fine I don't the reason why I'm asking for advice on this though. Yes, and I also don't want to announce it because what if I use such a text in the future and somebody listens to this episode I need to like so I only have like 2 arrows in my quiver I don't want to.
[40:11] Mike: But you just said you, you affirmed her. Okay.
[40:17] Mike: No I didn't want to know this I'm not interested in the specific verbage I hear you? Yeah I Just okay so you affirmed her you basically did what she's recommending you and you did not bring up anything specifically or explicitly sexual got it.
[40:26] Keith: And want to waste them.
[40:30] Keith: No I didn't discuss any particular anatomical parts specifically.
[40:36] Mike: I Don't think any woman would ever welcome a explicitly sexual text from me. Yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah there we go. That's true.
[40:42] Keith: From you. That's probably true I think I think we finally have something all 3 of us agree. Um, ok let's I want to ok I I'm interested in discussing. Um.
[40:47] Celeste: Oh my God I think that's a good thing.
[40:59] Keith: Ah, stripping and and sex work generally a little bit. Um, so I mentioned briefly that yeah I believe you used to work in a strip club I'm not quite sure in what capacity. But I I think yeah, okay yeah, let's do that. Yeah, it's a tease for her podcast but ok.
[41:00] Celeste: Okay.
[41:08] Mike: People can listen to her podcast and get more details.
[41:16] Keith: Have like a series of questions here. Let me and I don't know it. It might come off as a little bit aggressive. But I think it might spur like an interesting Conversation. So What percentage Oh and the reason why I want to ask you about this is you seem to have thought your time working there was um. Ah, yeah, fairly positive was a job and you know you you don't seem traumatized by it at all. So okay, here's the question. What percentage of Strippers. Do you think are appropriately working at strip clubs that is to say like they aren't being taken advantage of they aren't letting the sort of ups and downs of the job cause them. Long-term mental harm and they aren't struggling with substance or any other kind of abuse like yeah and it probably depends on the strip club right? Like there's you know ones that are like probably much better to the to their employees and like more safe than others. But.
[42:00] Celeste: Percentages Oh that's that that's.
[42:12] Keith: Yeah, okay.
[42:12] Celeste: So I used to work in Las Vegas I lived there. So um I don't think there's any other club other than maybe New York city Miami maybe that is is got the same reputations as Las Vegas
[42:25] Keith: I agree.
[42:28] Celeste: So there are there is a fair amount of women come on the weekends who are in school in California Arizona Utah even and they just come work for a couple days make money and they they jump out. There's the women that work there and it is.
[42:37] Keith: Okay.
[42:47] Celeste: The escape from reality where they are you know doing the drugs and just having fun and just making money I don't or make not making money I don't really know um and whether or not they take care of you that no no strip club takes care of you. Um.
[43:05] Keith: Like is there is sorry it is there a single strip club in the world that has like a staff psychologist. Okay, that's not yeah okay.
[43:06] Celeste: You basically go into? yeah.
[43:13] Celeste: No, they have a house mom. You know what a house Mom is a house Mom provides you with anything that you need that has to do with like.
[43:16] Mike: I Want to hear what a house mom. What's the house mom. Do.
[43:27] Celeste: Oh you need some food. You need some sacks. You need a tampon you need this, You need some so.
[43:28] Keith: The address to planned Parenthood god.
[43:29] Mike: Um, maybe she could date the custodian.
[43:35] Celeste: Yeah, ah, that would be an interesting story So she's seen it all so she helps you know if you need anything but no psychologist. Ah I think I think if you play it right? If you're smart you can work there get your college paid for.
[43:42] Keith: Um, ah okay.
[43:50] Celeste: Get a start on whatever it is. Maybe it's a transition. Maybe it's you know there were quite a few single moms. Ah surprisingly um, you know so it's and then there's women that have been there for 2030 years that is their life very very small percentage of maybe 1%
[44:03] Keith: Yeah.
[44:07] Mike: Doesn't it doesn't working in there make it difficult to have relationships with men afterward because I assume I mean even I think um you mentioned on your podcast actually that at the beginning going in there made you uncomfortable as a woman because you're sort of not sure I think he says them like that's you're not sure like what the etiquette is like should I look should I not look.
[44:21] Celeste: A.
[44:24] Mike: Feel the same way as a man like you go in. It's just kind of in a bizarre environment and the other thing is you see men behaving in kind of crass ways that is encouraged ultimately because it's ah it's a business but as a woman being encountering that constantly I've got to think that that would permanently or.
[44:38] Celeste: Ah.
[44:42] Mike: Semi-perminally alter the way that you experience men.
[44:46] Celeste: I was jaded for quiet some time after that. Yeah in the sense that you know all men are the same. They all just want to suck my tits. They just want to get off you know? Um, they all think the same for quite some time.
[44:50] Mike: Um, her.
[44:56] Keith: Um, yeah.
[44:58] Mike: I mean isn't that like actually kind of nice of them to want to do that to you I mean that's actually they're not. They're not trying to get off. They're trying to give you pleasure I mean they're not going to succeed I guess unless and you're you're lactating. There's.
[45:06] Celeste: No yeah, no I don't want anybody in the strip clubs I can know my tits.
[45:14] Mike: But in general it's it's it's there Their least of it's ah it's ah, an impulse that it's not for their own pleasure. Maybe it is I don't know you don't directly get pleasure really so their guy did you encounter guys that yeah.
[45:19] Celeste: Oh really, it is.
[45:23] Keith: I I think men I think men get more pleasure from ah a ham tit sucking than women receive from it. You're right that it's not.
[45:35] Mike: Is that right.
[45:37] Keith: Neither you know it's not like direct I think so it's not direct like penis contact. So like it's not like building toward Orgasm but it's yeah.
[45:46] Mike: Um, okay, hang on so you think you sucking my what I think in general, it's more common for it to be pleasurable for women than for men.
[45:46] Celeste: It's pretty similar to someone sick sucking yours. Do you like that. There's some men that do suck in your tits or nipple play. They become really Numb. Let me tell you when you're rubbing on people and you're topless and it's really like there's no sensation. Yeah.
[46:00] Keith: Um, that's certainly um, what's portrayed.
[46:11] Mike: Oh sure. No I understand that that in the strip club in in a strip club environment. Nothing I think is likely to be pleasurable for the woman realistically that would be my assumption I was just reacting just to the general notion that the man it did seem like you know if he if his his goal actually is not to achieve orgasm when he's trying to. Ah.
[46:17] Celeste: Ah.
[46:25] Keith: The.
[46:27] Mike: Interact with a woman's breasts at something else. It's some sort of a fetish or ah or he wants a memory or something. Yeah.
[46:31] Celeste: Yeah, or he's I'm paying you $20 for this dance. Whatever let me try to get as much as I can from this yeah I have a hard on. Oh yeah, and they and they all. Yeah, if they're really into it kinges in their pants.
[46:37] Mike: Well that makes sense. It's a capitalist impulse.
[46:47] Keith: Yeah.
[46:47] Mike: Um, is that do would is it true that um, that strippers avoid men wearing sweatpants.
[46:55] Celeste: Yeah, um, no, they don't care.
[46:59] Mike: Ah, they don't care about the pants. They do not want him to ejaculate while they're giving a lap dance though I see yeah I think it I would I would be very upset if I were giving as a man giving a lap dance to a man and he did that No I would be very upset.
[47:01] Celeste: That be preferable. Yeah, it's kind of gross.
[47:15] Keith: I Don't know if I've ever been in a room with another man ejaculating. Yeah I don't think I have.
[47:16] Mike: I don't I've never yeah we haven't we've what's that like what's that like being in the room with a man who ejaculates just anywhere I've never had Keith have you ever been in the room in a room with a man ejaculating other than yourself.
[47:24] Keith: What do you mean.
[47:25] Celeste: Ah, in his pants like pants on anywhere.
[47:34] Keith: Yeah I guess definitionally I every time.
[47:35] Mike: And we haven't it's always kind of gross right? I mean like if you just even if you are like the guy. It's kind of not the best is she doesn't like it so this is this question I saw on Tiktok where a woman asked a woman was asked would you rather give the first ninety percent of a blowjob or the last ten percent
[47:44] Celeste: It's all relative.
[47:54] Mike: And she said first ninety percent it sounds like you would agree with that.
[47:55] Celeste: I Actually am a fan of pearl necklaces.
[47:58] Keith: How interesting.
[48:01] Mike: Okay, so that's a really clever way to turn the problem on its head. Ah you're you're basically taking that final 10% and viewing it as ah as ah, an external completion.
[48:12] Celeste: And maybe it's just like for me, it's like ah um, it's not all the time but it's definitely a turn on like oh I got him off and you know on like me and I don't know it's not but most of the time is gross. Ah.
[48:25] Mike: Interesting. Is it something about it being on your chest or just somewhere on your body That's not in oh interesting huh.
[48:27] Celeste: But I do I do like that I do like bro necklaces. Yeah yeah, no on my chest on my chest. Yeah yeah.
[48:34] Keith: And is it because yeah you have like is it because you have like a visual demonstration of of you know what? you were able to make this man feel or what's going on there.
[48:43] Celeste: Probably it's probably like a little bit of a control or not even control. But just it's kind of like a good feeling. Yeah yeah.
[48:52] Mike: That makes sense see you. That's it's interesting I think a lot of men like that visual too because you you see that a lot in porn that yes indeed, but it.
[49:01] Keith: Yeah, it's a common final shot so to speak.
[49:06] Celeste: That's just a visual. Yeah I mean the good visuals make good porn right? It is it is yeah yeah, yeah, but I don't prefer to watch it like I don't want to watch like the porn doesn't it doesn't get me off watching him give her a pearl necklace.
[49:08] Keith: Yeah.
[49:10] Mike: It's a visual for you as well right? when you enjoy it. So it's not like. Ah.
[49:19] Keith: Ha.
[49:21] Mike: But you would for example, like a vr porn where you are the 1 being because we saw one of these with a lady once as she watched it with us and and and and none of us liked it. Yeah, the then okay it was rough.
[49:27] Celeste: Oh yeah, oh I've never done that or seen a Vr porn.
[49:34] Keith: Yeah, it's yeah you can get um you know there's all these the R porn is becoming more and more popular and I don't even know how they do the sort of point of view porn I know but doesn't it need some like.
[49:41] Celeste: Um, and that.
[49:43] Mike: They have some sort of camera attached to the actor's head which must be very bizarre. It's like having sex with roboop indeed. Yeah, but I did so in that sense I did get to be in the room while being given a pearl necklace and I did not like it.
[49:51] Keith: Yeah, it has like some fancy lens right? like um I can't imagine it Provo.
[49:54] Celeste: Um, that's interesting.
[49:59] Celeste: No there you go.
[50:00] Keith: You can say firsthand.
[50:02] Mike: I I think it might have been more compelling if I could have had my hand around his penis and felt the the sort of pulsating. What do you think about that now it's just the visual.
[50:11] Celeste: Um, sure I think it's the whole like getting him there and then being able to say this is you know, let me see it I think it's just yeah.
[50:18] Mike: Okay, so you that that that's a good sign that you've been un to significant and unjaded from the strip club experience. Yeah, that makes sense.
[50:28] Celeste: Yet, but it took a while it did it did take a while so getting out of it sometimes can um, you got to get back to reality right because day and day day Out. You're like oh my God like every guy is like this No not. Yes, every guy is very sexually charged. Visually I do believe that but that doesn't mean that that person what's that yeah they had there's there other senses that are heightened because they're blind right.
[50:48] Keith: Yeah I am I Yeah I think.
[50:55] Mike: Um, not the not the blind.
[51:01] Mike: But that's sort of you actually maybe this is a good sex Keith could send like because a woman would prefer to be less visual right? I mean then you're you're differentiating yourself you feel I liked I enjoyed sex with you so much I felt like a blind man. No some kind of blind cause play or something.
[51:15] Keith: By my.
[51:16] Celeste: Um, like no that might scare her away. Yeah yeah, don't send that to her.
[51:20] Mike: Right? fine.
[51:23] Keith: Um, would you recommend to anybody to work in a strip club like let's say it's a you know 19 year old she's you know going to Ucla and she goes to vegas on the weekends and you know she's able to make.
[51:30] Celeste: Ah.
[51:37] Keith: I have no idea a thousand dollars a night there and if she were you know bartending. She can only make $400 and she's like look like I have to work less. but but yeah she's like accruing this sort of mental um toll and you know you might make them an argument that.
[51:52] Celeste: No.
[51:55] Keith: Yeah I mean she's sort of learning how men actually are and maybe it's better to find that out sooner and later or you might argue that it introduces so much cynicism in such an extreme way that it's not worth it for anyone I don't I don't know how you've.
[52:08] Celeste: God that's so that's so relative to the person right? Um, when I started dancing I was really naive to the world like I had smoked pot when I was 15 I think that was it well three months into working at a club you know someone stuck an ecstasy pill in my water and.
[52:14] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[52:25] Keith: Um, yeah, little bender. Yeah.
[52:26] Celeste: You know became a couple year journey of of parting. Um where it would have probably never happened or if so it would have been a much less team situation. Um, but I was in the sense that I had such big goals and other things that were important to me in Life. So. I was able to get out of it. There are a lot of women who are not able to get out of it right? They are constantly in this like men owe me this or maybe that's the seeking arrangement or maybe that's the you know they can't ever understand what a normal relationship might look like for them. So.
[52:54] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[53:04] Celeste: I do think it's great if you want to work for a couple years and you just go in and out and you just work you get, you're not in the scene you're not you know taken under by other girls that are like oh no, just do this or stay longer. You know if you have a good head on your shoulders. It's possible that you can just go in and go out and.
[53:14] Keith: You write.
[53:24] Celeste: Get through college and I think it's great.
[53:29] Keith: Okay, yeah, all right that makes sense to me. Um, you mentioned in a few episodes I listened to that a strip club can be a good date. Um, even for non bisexual women. So what? what benefit is a heterosexual woman getting from watching her male partner.
[53:38] Celeste: Yeah.
[53:47] Keith: Express Sexual interest in other women.
[53:51] Celeste: So whether they're super straight women. Ah it doesn't mean that they women really identify. They like see a beautiful woman doesn't mean that they want to be sexual with her but they can appreciate beauty.
[54:03] Keith: Um, sure.
[54:07] Celeste: Right? There can appreciate a tease like if it's a show. Um, and so I think women are a little bit less like oh I'm hetero with my boyfriend or my husband and I think it leads to there's still this little tease right? There's still this dance for them to see oh. Maybe I should dance like that for my husband. Oh that looks like that turns him on it's just kind of a little bit of a eye opener. Maybe they never go back back. Maybe it's not for them. But I do believe it's something.
[54:35] Keith: Um, yeah.
[54:38] Celeste: That if you are in a situation or someone recommends it maybe go with a bunch of friends. It's just fun. You know it doesn't have to be so like you said it doesn't have to be like okay I want to know if this turns you want? Um, yeah.
[54:50] Keith: Um, right.
[54:50] Mike: Um, what if I mean what if the woman's conclusion and this would not be wrong in many in most cases is that men like sexual variety wouldn't that be ah, kind of a disturbing conclusion or ah to see ah face to face.
[54:58] Celeste: Yeah.
[55:06] Mike: Even though they might know Intellectually, it's true to begin with.
[55:06] Celeste: Doesn't so they like variety to look at or to have sex with right? So I think.
[55:12] Mike: To have sex with which is true.
[55:13] Keith: Well.
[55:18] Mike: Well, it is true. Keith.
[55:19] Keith: I Know it's just an inconvenient truth.
[55:24] Celeste: It's whether they're acting on it or not right I think all women know this I Hope they're not naive to that. It.
[55:29] Keith: I Mean you read about women you know being outraged when they find out that their you know husband looks at Porn ever or or thinks about other women ever. But I think you're right in general. It's sort of yeah in educated sex positive communities but everybody knows that men are.
[55:45] Mike: So so you're saying that a woman a woman could find attractive and maybe be turned on by the notion that oh I'm as a guy as your partner attracted to all these other women I want to have sex with them. But I'm not doing that. That's attractive to the woman that I'm not doing the thing.
[55:47] Keith: At least think about sexual promiscuity.
[56:03] Keith: Um.
[56:04] Mike: That right? and then I would wonder what? Ah how far can I go before it becomes unattractive what? what can I do and not gross you out.
[56:12] Celeste: What do you say? Oh sorry I am like trying to understand what you just said to me. Yeah, okay.
[56:16] Keith: Yeah, what do you mean? Mike that was unclear to me too.
[56:17] Mike: Oh I mean I mean okay I mean you're in a relationship with a woman and she's an intelligent woman and realizes that men generally are interested in sexual variety then you go to the strip club together and she sees that you are attracted to these other women But. You're reserving something for her and she's finds that compelling. Maybe it turns her on so I was sort of taking that as the base and then I wanted to know what the ah how far could I go at the strip club before I would cross that limit of ah yeah.
[56:48] Keith: Oh I see like would she be upset seeing you receive it ah a lap dance or you know if you go back to the Vp room who knows what happens there at at some point she's going to be upset right? Okay I understand.
[56:57] Mike: Um, well I mean there's some point where the illusion is broken and is that yeah.
[57:01] Celeste: Yeah, she's going to want to either do 1 or 2 things join you in the back in the vip room because it's fun and she is getting kind of hot watching you get turned on or she's going to want to run out the door.
[57:16] Mike: Wait I thought the second one was going to be go to the the IP room with me to Surveil and surveil me I was certain. That's what was coming.
[57:19] Keith: We're at.
[57:26] Celeste: So no I think it's 1 or 2 reactions with a woman. It's pretty like gut. It's like ah you know it's yes or no and it's there's not much in between and if she if she does say like oh this is not so bad. She's full of shit. She either can't stand. It. She can't stand to see you with another woman and it's like a deal breaker or she's enjoying the fact that I get to go home with him but he's getting turned on by her and it's kind of like a hot little thing.
[57:53] Mike: Okay.
[57:57] Keith: Yeah, okay, that all tracks I think with what my expectation would be um I think that's a decent place to wrap up so this was episode one thirteen of your mileage may vary. Thank you to our guest Celeste Moore and please give her podcast the down and dirty a listen. Ah, clesse. Do you want to say anything more about where people can find you or do you want to advertise for anything.
[58:18] Celeste: Yeah, great. Thank you? Ah, you can find me at celestemore.com again down in dirty podcast and at the end of this month I'm going to be launching an amazing new sweet spot package. So I think you guys should check it out. Um. Other than that oh it's c less more image on Instagram and Linkedin less more. So yeah, thanks for having me this was fun.
[58:42] Keith: Yeah, it was yeah we enjoyed the conversation. As for us, you can reach us at y m mv pod at gmail.com that's the place to ask us questions or give us feedback. Thank you for listening and we look forward to catching you next time on your mileage may vary.
[58:42] Mike: For sure. Thank you.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 113: Dating Advice, Validating Women In Bed, Stripper Aftermaths, Soho House Dreams

Episode Transcript