Your Mileage May Vary: Internal And External Orgasms, Sex After Marriage, Male Contraceptive Irresponsibility

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith I'm Keith my co-host is Mike welcome Mike so on today's show we're going to be having a conversation with Alison Jane Ewing Alison is a psychotherapist and emotional freedom technique.
[00:08] Mike: Thanks Keith.
[00:20] Keith: Likeitioner her book find love again, learn to date like a goddess provided some great tips for mike especially and her website is how to date like a goddess.com welcome to the show Allison. Yeah, we're well well, we'll try to.
[00:28] Allison: Hi Thanks for having me I'm excited and a little nervous to talk to you guys after listening to your show.
[00:39] Keith: Ah, keep things mostly above board. Could you tell us a bit about your dating journey and where you are with that now.
[00:48] Allison: Sure so I got divorced seven years ago and at that time I was initially not even interested in dating and then I kind of did the thing that it seems like to me a lot of people do right out of um, long term marriages. Met a guy fell hard had this very intense sort of passionate kind of little fling if you will or whatever it lasted a little bit longer than than I had anticipated and then it came to an end because of course it's sort of like wait a minute I just came out of a. Well for me a 17 year marriage and I haven't dated around and I can't just like jump on the first thing that comes along so that's sort of dissolved and moved on and then I have had lots of dating adventures. Let's just say ever since which.
[01:25] Keith: Sure.
[01:43] Allison: Prompted me to write the book.
[01:47] Keith: Ok, um, so we have a number of questions here I'm not quite sure where to start Mike Do you want to start with? Do you have something? Do you want to start with something or do you want me to go.
[01:58] Mike: Why don't you go ahead.
[02:02] Keith: All right? So Do you have a number of ah sort of things in your book that I think are pretty interesting as as prompts here. So Let's start with, we're talking about this a little bit before we record it but let's start with ah how to talk about? um. Stds and Birth control. So you mentioned in your book that ah you have a fairly common experience which is that men are perhaps not as responsible and forthcoming with condoms as you might like is that an accurate description.
[02:37] Allison: I Think that would be an accurate description. Yeah yeah I I just realized sort of early on that I I was worried about Stds Obviously indefinitely pregnancy and.
[02:52] Keith: Um, right.
[02:55] Allison: I was sort of the only one it seemed like him a lot of the time and so I had actually read a post believe it or not on a like a mom's Facebook group a single mom's Facebook group I was in where a woman described that she has this speech and she just kind of like memorized the speech and then.
[03:04] Keith: Okay.
[03:13] Allison: Pulls it out at the opportune moment and it's basically something along the lines of like look my health is the most important thing to me in the world. Um I Want to be around for my kids and so you know I'm a condom girl unless up until we decide that we are going to be monogamous and um. And then at that point we both get tested. We show each other our test results and we can Forego the you know, less than fun aspect of right.
[03:37] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean nobody nobody likes condoms I I have had the experience that when I bring it up with prospective Sexual partners. They are surprised that I'm bringing it up I Think the. Most common female experiences. You know the ball gets rolling towards sexy times and if if unprompted the man would just like go ahead and put his penis inside of you without ever mentioning it and that seems fairly insane to me. When do you roll out this speech.
[04:15] Allison: Oh that's a good question because I literally um was just thinking about this last night with someone that I've started seeing a little bit and I'm like when do I when do I drop it so it's just sort of depends I think in every situation. But.
[04:32] Allison: There have been times that I have dropped that speech in a very sort of hot and heavy moment and then the typical reaction which I do describe in my book has been basically like oh ok and most men will either say Well I don't have anything.
[04:36] Keith: Right.
[04:51] Allison: So you know obviously they're like hesitant and you know they're not. They're not going to go ahead with it unless you know and so I have had to be the one to say well I Do you know I'm I'm prepared kind of say.
[04:56] Keith: Um, right.
[05:03] Keith: Right.
[05:04] Mike: So I I want to understand so when you I mean we don't need to get that specific about hot and heavy. But um, let's assume that um his penis is exposed to the night air as it were in this situation and he has a pretty you know, solid erection. Um, so he in that situation. You're you're basically saying you're you're implying that effectively 100% of men are prepared to just begin having intercourse with you without even a discussion of the condom that appears to be what what would happen if you did not deploy this speech.
[05:39] Allison: I In my experience I feel that way. Yes, it does seem to be the case in. In fact, even dated a guy one time who I mean he was ok with condos but he was not when I got to like the you know if we want to be monogamous be but got both got to get tested.
[05:40] Mike: That right.
[05:44] Mike: Okay.
[05:57] Keith: He didn't want to get tested.
[05:57] Allison: And he wouldn't do it. He just wouldn't do it. You didn't want to get tested. He was like I don't need to get tested I You know my last partner was clean I know it and and you know and I thought well how do you know that? and.
[06:10] Keith: Right.
[06:12] Allison: Do you know that she absolutely 100% didn't cheat on you. Yeah I know it and it was just it. It was this debate and eventually it ended us because I was like this is weird I honestly don't think it was hiding anything I think it was a money issue to be honest, like I think he just didn't want to spend the money and um, who.
[06:25] Keith: And that maybe is afraid of needles.
[06:27] Mike: His superpower was was poverty. Yeah, youth would know this are there No Needles keith.
[06:31] Allison: There's no needles. You just have to pee in a cup.
[06:33] Keith: Yeah, ah I think for HIV and 1 other you need you, you need blood but for but for like the normal than the normal ones I did so I have recently gotten an an std test myself. Ah I learned that.
[06:37] Allison: Well, that's true. Yeah, you do have blood.
[06:40] Mike: That's true.
[06:50] Keith: It is now. Yeah, yeah, it's not std anymore. It's ST I yeah I went to this um clinic in the Castro. Yeah, they're very careful about the language now to not shame people.
[06:52] Allison: I present.
[06:55] Mike: I Don't know how that makes it better I would rather have a disease than an infection but it'll go on. I mean infected Implies. There's like pus and it like smells a disease is like could be you know of the flu Anyway I think Eyes worse I makes it grosser for me but go On. No.
[07:12] Keith: I don't I'm not sure what those words evoke in my mind I can't remember does I actually stand for infection. It probably does. Okay, anyway yeah I don't I don't remember maybe our listeners can write in and edge it.
[07:21] Mike: Yes.
[07:22] Allison: I Know that's struggling with I don't think it does but I can't think of what else it was sexually transmit.
[07:28] Mike: It's infection I go on what at what happened in the Castro Keith
[07:31] Keith: Educate us out of our ignorance. Oh they just have all this um, sort of gymnastics around language like they ask you your sex and there's you know, 25 different options and then you can write in or you can say like decline to state and they. Have a psychologist on hand that you can talk to before you get your results or when you get your results like they're they're pretty. They're pretty dialed in there. But yes, yeah, yeah, so yeah, the neighborhood I mean you know so California California is.
[07:56] Allison: Wow.
[07:57] Mike: That makes sense because particularly with regard to HIV because it's so life threatening and it yeah.
[08:02] Allison: I don't think we know maybe that's a California thing because I don't think we're that.
[08:11] Keith: Often sort of bleeding edge on this kind of stuff and the place where this clinic is free, but it's in the sort of gay neighborhood of San Francisco so most of the I don't know if the word is customers most of the folks in there are are are gay and so HIV has ah the higher is is a fairly big concern there and then.
[08:11] Allison: 1 more.
[08:17] Mike: Right? clients now.
[08:29] Keith: Yeah, they also really encourage you to get on Prep which is um, a thing that makes you less less susceptible to H I v But yeah explained I thought I might be less susceptible for other reasons.
[08:35] Allison: Ruining. Yeah.
[08:40] Mike: So Keith I I have a question here the um so you are ah it is there are men in the world Keith counts himself among them who do not do this sort of weird stealth. It's something that's stealth. It's just they don't ah, they're not interested in this topic. Why I don't under. Ok so I don't understand if you're um I don't understand why that's not just disqualifying for a guy like I realize you're saying it happens effectively all the time but I like so you're having to give this speech.
[09:10] Allison: 7
[09:16] Mike: Or ah well I guess give the speech or have maybe an uncomfortable moment when the man is when you're about to have sex but I don't I mean I would it it clashes a little bit with my sort of mental model for what women are looking in for foreign relationships because ah.
[09:22] Allison: Is.
[09:35] Mike: It's such a fundamental frankly stupid thing that he's doing that I would think it would just be disqualifying. It's like look like that This is this is yeah why would I I'm just going to jump dump you. Why don't you do that.
[09:44] Allison: Well because so so you're you're starting with a false potentially false premise right? because you're you're implying that every time I was going to have sex I was looking at a relationship with that person which was not always the case right? So so you know sometime.
[09:56] Mike: Oh that's a fair point. That's a fair point. Okay, but let's say you were let's say you were looking for a relationship.
[10:04] Allison: Yeah,, let's like it was um I Still don't think it would It wouldn't necessarily disqualify I mean like the guy who then wouldn't get tested that disqualified him you know so but I think if if I'm digging someone and the moment gets to that point and maybe he wasn't expecting it. Maybe you know. It just kind of yes.
[10:24] Mike: These are all men in their 30 s or later right? Yeah I think it should disqualify them as like as like a yeah I did. That's my opinion the as a relationship. The other part point you made is reasonable if if it's not if you're not looking for long term partner then of course. Ah.
[10:34] Allison: Yeah, right right? for.
[10:39] Mike: You're looking for something different and that's totally reasonable. But I think that's sure what's going on there. It's sort of an Iq test right? yeah.
[10:42] Keith: Mike I think I I am I I think I know what's going on there now. I don't think it is I think most men most actually isn't strong enough like almost all men I think are presuming. That the woman is gatekeeping it in a more responsible way than they are and so they're presuming. She's on birth control. They're presuming that she's clean I ah I i.
[11:08] Mike: Yeah, that's stupid that's stupid they should they should because think about it this way they if I'm a guy and I want to um as men do I want to have a nice orgasm at the end of this date. Um I want to maximize the odds of that orgasm now there are two choices I could bring a condom or not bring a condom.
[11:21] Keith: Um, yeah.
[11:27] Mike: If I don't bring a condom then there is the very real risk that she won't have one and then I don't get my nice orgasm unless maybe what they want is they want to like ah give you a pearl necklace In other words, they want sort of external experience. But I don't think that's what's going on I think they're just basically lessening their odds of that orgasm which I think is stupid.
[11:32] Allison: Right.
[11:32] Keith: No.
[11:43] Keith: I don't.
[11:45] Allison: Well that I there definitely are some guys who will say oh no I can't like I don't like to have sex with a condom that doesn't feel as good to me. So that's a Qualifie fire. No, they would rather just.
[11:53] Mike: They would rather not have sex. They would rather not have sex.
[12:00] Allison: You just sort of push in like hey baby like let's just go for it without a condom kind of thing So to me that's a disqualifier that's as somebody I'm not going to go out. Yeah, right.
[12:06] Mike: Yeah, that's but the issue is they that they're effectively saying they would rather not have sex they're saying because because they're going to behave in a manner where a reasonable woman would say no.
[12:12] Allison: Know oh well maybe but I think that's not I think that's not always true too. I think a lot of women would still say yes because they're in the moment or they really like the guy or they want the guy to like them which is a big problem and yeah.
[12:14] Keith: Um, they're not Mike no.
[12:25] Keith: Or there of trade.
[12:30] Allison: Let me back up and just say I can't tell you how many of my um friends have said to so like single midlife friends have said to me now How? how exactly do you talk about using a condom.. How do you when do you? So like where how I'm like you just say it. They're like well how do you say it? I'm like you just say like what are you talking about. So that has actually shown me how many women I know Also don't don't practice safe sex because in the moment they're just kind of like ok well, whatever. And then once you've had sex once with a guy without a condom then yeah mine as Well. Do it a bunch more times So and I don't know how much of it has to do with also being.
[12:51] Mike: I Believe you.
[13:02] Keith: Right.
[13:08] Allison: At midlife I mean or being post-divorce I do I know I met a guy at 1 point you know we started hooking up. We had sex and he he actually had just gotten tested. Okay, and. So he literally pulled up his like test results on his phone for me that night and it was like I just got tested Thursday was just like a weird coincidence and so I was like all right? But here's the thing 2 things about that one was he I hadn't just gotten tested. He didn't care.
[13:29] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[13:31] Mike: That's cool.
[13:35] Keith: But.
[13:44] Keith: Yeah.
[13:45] Allison: You know and also the next day he said to me oh my God Oh my God I didn't even ask you are you on birth control and I said yeah I said but Rookie mistake he goes. Yeah I mean I just coming out of marriage I'm not thinking about that anymore I'm like I know but like you should be because.
[14:02] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[14:03] Mike: Well that I respect more I respect that more because um, on the 1 hand. Ah so I'm more frustrated with the man who lowers his risk of copulating because I think there it's just.
[14:05] Allison: Because Mike have very easily been. No, you know so.
[14:19] Mike: Yeah, it's just an Iq test like he's he has a goal and he's lowering his odds of getting it Now. You're this other risk that he might impregnate somebody not wanting to while there. He's actually following his programming I mean that's what men are supposed to do So I mean I can understand that I mean he he basically just was. He did he did he still got to have sex right? which was his primary objective.
[14:38] Allison: I think that I think his brain had checked out at that point is.
[14:39] Keith: I think.
[14:44] Mike: Nobody Yeah, but I mean that's he he was on the roller coaster ride at that point. So then he yeah like men do have a certain. Um, yeah, it makes sense to me that men would sort of lose their mind in that situation and and and be willing to impregnate somebody when even when they they shouldn't.
[14:46] Allison: For now.
[15:00] Keith: Ah, okay I want to say something here mike I think your premise that the man is lowering his odds of copulation at any point is is is is wrong like I think I think a man would like pretend not to have a condom he would like offer resistance. But ultimately he would always just go down. He might have 1 a and b he might just go down to the corner store to get one It's just that he's applying pressure because he would rather have unprotected sex so he's never removing sex from the table for himself. He's just being Mac Maximally coercive
[15:20] Allison: We said it which this happened.
[15:27] Allison: I agree.
[15:29] Mike: Well, that just makes me angry with the woman then because because you know in in ordinary life women Gait keep so carefully access to sex with a new partner and then when you get to this stage. They're willing to let the guy. They're going to tolerate this guy having to run down to the corner store after trying to aggressively to persuade them to have sex without a condom.
[15:47] Allison: Know that things you know, true I I mean I Most of my friends are very sexualized. You know, very sexual women really like sex enjoy sex like that's one of the things we joke about that kind of brought us all together. So I don't think they gate keep the way you're saying I don't think that that's that's universally true I mean I think some women do. But I think those are women who maybe even have lower sex drives I mean one of the things that we talk about a lot. My friend group is how it's sort of unfair when you have when you're a woman with a high sex drive. It's kind of an unfair situation. In a way in our society that you're put in because it men can just go out and have sex you know whenever they want without worrying about their reputation or their you know how they're going to get labeled and women if we do It is can be much more problematic I mean a you can definitely get labeled. You can get shamed. Be like a lot of guys if you have sex too soon they will lose interest in you I've seen this happen over and over and so there is a double standard that goes on and so if you want to just as a woman if you want to get laid just to get laid. It's actually a problem. It's hard. It's. Difficult you have to purposely choose someone. You don't want a relationship with if you wanted to just have a fling because you know that your chances of you know, sleeping with soon is going to lose lose their interest.
[17:06] Mike: Ok, but I think your points have merit but let's say that you and I went to a bar in a city. We live in different cities. So I can't pick anything specific more specific than that. On a you know Friday night and we were going to see who could have sex the fastest what percentage of the time. Do you think I would win that competition and we're not allowed to pay anyone.
[17:32] Allison: Okay, so now you sell so I have this like really close guy friend single you know straight guy friend in Cincinnati and he says the same shit. So I know exactly what you're talking about yes I do think I would yes I would be able to have sex sooner I do I do.
[17:43] Mike: Well, it's okay, what's your response to him right? I think also that the I mean there there is ah I am I think you're going to say that this is due to show social pressure but I'll just say it the um, ah there was a.
[17:51] Allison: Like that.
[18:00] Mike: This has been replicated a few times and it's these results relatively obvious. Ah you take and a very attractive man and a very attractive woman put them on a college campus and they proposition people of the opposite Gender. Ah, ah for sex the woman who propositions men something like 50% of The. Men are like ok I'll go have sex with you right Now. Ah, they've never it is. It's my reading of these studies. It has never happened that a man had a woman say yes ever 0 It's 0 It's actually 0 yes and it's a very attractive man on a college campus Now you could say oh that's because the women don't want to be socially shamed but it's not.. It's not It's because women don't want to do that that doesn't happen I but I believe that your sex drive that a woman can have a higher sex drive. But I Still think that like there's a significant amount of gatekeeping there.
[18:47] Allison: Interesting I Wonder too if there's an age difference though I mean I feel like when coming out of a long term marriage. There is a little bit of a sewing of oats kind of feeling that definitely men have but I think women have you know and I think it's like Wow like I you know.
[18:59] Keith: Are.
[19:00] Mike: Um, sure.
[19:06] Allison: This whole world just opened up to me I thought I was going to till death. Do us part I thought I was growing old with this person suddenly you're not and suddenly it's like oh I can reinvent myself I can have all sorts of new different experiences that I've never had before I can.
[19:23] Mike: Sure I have a question if if if you're pursuing ah and not I mean I believe what? what you're saying actually I believe like I've heard this type of situation many times and I think it is true that on college campuses like there's ah, a selection effect due to the age for sure. Um.
[19:23] Allison: Try out different kinds of guys. Especially.
[19:40] Mike: If you let's say have a number of encounters with with men that are for fun. They're not seeking a relationship. Um and most of them have you have sex only a couple times a handful of times. Maybe only once? um. Do you find it easy on that first second or third encounter say particularly the first to have an orgasm during the during the sex with the man.
[19:59] Allison: So I do I don't have a problem with it at all. But I am literally the only woman I know that says that all my friends say no, it takes you know 3 or 4 times.
[20:05] Keith: Ah.
[20:10] Mike: So don't you think that your feelings about this could be biased by that that you're extremely unusual in that you have and I'm curious sort of why it's so easy for you actually have you introspected about that.
[20:19] Allison: Yeah I have I mean I mean some people jokingly say I'm like a guy when it comes to sex right? So and I I kind of agree with that I think I.
[20:29] Mike: I'd like to hear more about that. But I mean what? what? what? What? So what? you? um so is this because like during during the sex act you masturbate or met you're It's very easy for you I mean what or or is it are you saying you have.
[20:39] Allison: I mean I Just think why I don't I can have sex with someone and not like catch feelings if you will right like my kids would say Um, yeah.
[20:46] Mike: Now I hear that but usually there's just fit.. There's just ah, women are not the the female. Um Arousal process is a little more complex than the male male and also just like with the condom issue men often are not as careful or as good in many cases at um, attending to the needs of a woman and so. Is it is it that pretty much anything. The man does you're able to achieve Orgasm. Do you masturbate like is there What? what? How are you? How does this happen.
[21:09] Allison: Um, need so I so I have internal orgasms. So I know I think it's only like 25% of women can have an internal orgasm but I do and I have them very easily very regularly so you know I think that that is a huge part of it that.
[21:25] Mike: Is that when you when you masturbate by yourself. Do you masturp? Do you not do you masturbate internally as well. Do you notice a difference in the experience you have between the one you have internally versus externally can you describe the difference.
[21:26] Allison: I Can do that I can have that spirit.
[21:31] Allison: I Don't actually I don't I Yes, yes yes yeah, so I I like internal orgasms butter and I can't achieve those on my own so that is like my I can't no I mean I.
[21:44] Mike: You can't even let's.
[21:47] Keith: Um, whoa.
[21:50] Allison: I Could I Just don't like it I don't like sticking something silicone inside me Yeah I know I know I mean I don't know if this is if this is like really weird to talk about but like when I was a a kid kind of when I was in high school I worked at a doctor's office. Okay, and.
[21:54] Mike: Okay, there's also glass um ah vegetables.
[22:10] Allison: A woman there had put a tamp on it and then put another tamp on it and because she didn't realize and so she had this tampon in there for like a week and she got super sick and she almost died and so it just freaked me the fuck out and so ever since then I am a little weird about sticking non you know, organic. Ah.
[22:13] Mike: Um, yeah, yes.
[22:27] Keith: Penises. Yeah.
[22:27] Mike: Well I feel like that That's irrational I feel like I mean part of the premise of your book and so forth is is women overcoming That's irrational, right? That's not actually a risk if use something safe before.
[22:29] Allison: So I'm yeah. Do yeah, it's like a little bit of a like a trauma.? Whatever whatever. So Yeah I could probably tap on that I've never thought about it before and then I could probably use you host but whatever I master.
[22:44] Mike: Um, yeah for sure front and for those for the listeners.
[22:51] Allison: I'll get I'll get a Clatora orgasm when I masturbate like that's fine that works you know it's.
[22:53] Mike: Know for for this listeners the ah the tapping with that. She's referring to is one of the techniques. She mentions in the book for um, for sort of changing your mental state. Um, the the ah okay, can you describe the difference between. So do you never have cliteral organisms with partners.
[23:11] Allison: No I do I do I do um I do um well so what I learned in some of my training is that there's you know nerve.
[23:11] Mike: Okay, do you prefer you, You seem to vastly prefer the internal ones. Can you describe like why and how you vastly I mean what? what is the difference in sensation.
[23:27] Mike: Sure.
[23:27] Allison: Ending connect connections basically between your clitoris and your G spot and that there's actually more. There's not just well. There's one G spot officially. But there's multiple spots internally that have these nerve bundles that connect directly to your clitoris and so I don't know I feel like I.
[23:35] Mike: Sure.
[23:45] Allison: When those get stimulated I can feel it I can feel it like really.
[23:48] Mike: Yeah, but what happens to your body like do you do you like? ah wait if it's clitteral. Are you just are you still aware of your surroundings. But when it's internal. You lose such awareness like I mean is it is it much more powerful make me jealous here.
[23:56] Allison: Yeah I just think it's more powerful. well well okay so actually so what it is I just it just clicked is I it can happen over and over and over again when so when I have a clatoral orgasm then there's like a little downtime. Like you need a little downtime right? because you get I mean I don't know I'm assuming you guys know then a woman becomes a little like really sensitive there right? So but if I have an internal orgasm I can have like 7 in a row if if the guy keeps hitting that spot with his finger or his penis or whatever I can just keep coming and so that is awesome obvious.
[24:30] Mike: That's cool. Is it it and when you have these internal orgasms Obviously with the clitoral orgasm like the normal sort of experience. Both men and women Actually they're they're quite similar is sort of contractions of the pelvic floor muscles like you feel you know this kind of repetitive pleasurable contractions is. It's the same.
[24:31] Allison: I.
[24:48] Mike: Ah, when you have the the the internal orgasm or does it feel different in some way.
[24:51] Allison: Um, no I think it's the same. It's just that when you keep hitting that over and over it like I don't know I think it gives me a little bit of a brain high if you will you know, just um.
[25:02] Mike: And do you find that the first one and the seventh one are are equally pleasurable. Okay, and and yeah have you.
[25:06] Allison: Yeah I do I do well I wouldn't even say that I think the seventh one can be more because it's like I don't know it's fun. It's fun because then usually my partner is like super excited too because they can tell right? and so then they're you know.
[25:10] Keith: Huh.
[25:24] Allison: Getting more excited and more into it because they're happy that they're making me happy and that they're giving me all this pleasure. You know so.
[25:29] Mike: Okay, so let let's say if you let's say if you and you're saying when you have a cliteral orgasm you're done. You're not done having sex necessarily but you're that you're not going to have another one now. Let's say that you had a clitoral orgasm and then started having penis and vagina sex. Do you think you could then have a an internal orgasm.
[25:42] Allison: Yes. Yeah I mean sometimes like. For instance, if I'm on top I can have both at the same time.
[25:47] Mike: In other words does that reset that. At the same time like simultaneously. What do you know? I see okay I see and the the the let's say that you had I'm trying to understand whether the cliteral organism sort of ends.
[25:54] Allison: Um, yeah I mean maybe that exact same time but you know it's I'm having both experiences like yeah.
[26:09] Allison: No, no, not for me, you know.
[26:10] Mike: Session. Ok, but you can't have 2 of those like if you have one then you'd have to wait sort of like a man does like 30 minutes before you could have a second one.
[26:20] Allison: Um, like I think if it happens when I'm actually having sex on top. Then I think I could just keep having sex and then eventually I could have another one of those but when but if it's like oral sex like then it's kind of like done like then I need a little pause.
[26:31] Mike: I see I see okay that makes sense I mean yeah Keith usually move on to that. Thank you I appreciate that that because we haven't had anybody sort of like go through that stuff in detail a woman.
[26:36] Allison: You know.
[26:41] Allison: I Really that way. Yeah I mean I think that um I am having a little bit of an internal struggle right now I'll be honest because I'm like oh God I really wasn't expecting to talk about all this. But at the same time.
[26:45] Keith: Yeah.
[26:47] Mike: Well, it's ah it's somewhat. It's a somewhat rare experience.
[27:01] Allison: I am kind of passionate about it because it it does make me sad that so many women don't have that experience can't have that experience and I really think that so much of it is because women are in their heads and not in their bodies when they're having sex and so if you can just like really let go. And and not be thinking about shit and not be worrying like do I look ah does what is he thinking am I you know touching him the way he wants to be touch or whatever you know, just all that shit like if you can just get out of your head and just really be in your body and just feel deeply into the feelings I Think. Most women would then start to be able to feel an internal orgasm as well. I mean I don't know that I'm super like have super special vagina and like you know, but I think it's a head game I think that's my Theory. Um.
[27:41] Mike: Sure is it? Yeah, there is some there there is yeah yeah, there is some scientific data on.
[27:44] Keith: Um, yeah.
[27:49] Keith: I Think it's ah it could be a bit above but I think it's probably more mental than than physical but it yeah look obviously some people have physical barriers.
[27:58] Mike: Yeah, the the um there is some scientific data on this that women who have um, internal orgasms are likely to have a shorter distance between their clitoris and their vaginal opening so there can't actually be a physical ah reason of course with as with anything human like. Just because there's some studies pointing to that doesn't mean it's correct as an explanation. Um and but and also it it sounds to me like you're describing that the internal experience. Um maybe is more whole body or maybe I mean there's there are things I've read another.
[28:17] Allison: Right.
[28:29] Mike: Context that suggests like for example, ah people will say a cliteral experience is more focused on their pelvis and legs whereas the full body the other the other one is more experience throughout the body and it's more kind of all all consuming. Yeah.
[28:40] Allison: Ah, yeah I would agree with that? Yeah yeah, I've never thought about it that way before. But now that you say it I would agree with that. That's my yeah, yeah, so.
[28:44] Mike: Sure that makes sense and perhaps and perhaps the clitteral one is more as a more well-defined length of maybe say 10 to 25 seconds or something in the vaginal one can kind of roll and go on and on is that also a fair description right.
[28:57] Allison: Yes, yeah, that is exactly how I would describe it? yes.
[29:01] Keith: Yeah, people use the analogy to waves for the for the internal ones sort of sort of riding waves. Yeah I I don't know if there's an analogous experience for men.
[29:06] Allison: Yeah, that's yeah, yeah, love you right? right? which is great.
[29:19] Allison: Right.
[29:21] Keith: And so.
[29:21] Mike: It's it. There is Keith it's prostate stimulation have you been with a man that enjoyed prostate stimulation Allison.
[29:25] Allison: Have I I mean I have I have but it hasn't been a defining thing you know with anyone I've been with I wouldn't say.
[29:29] Mike: Have you got? yeah okay so and you have you had had a man specifically bring it up to you and say hey this is what I I'm I'm really into this. Oh you've had to bring it up.
[29:41] Allison: No, no, but um, when when just like messing around or playing around like some guys are into it and some aren't let me try things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[29:49] Mike: Yeah, But how do you find that out. Do they tell you or you have to sort of try things out and then see how they react. Okay, okay, okay, that's an um, that's interesting so manner seem to be generally, not that communicative about this stuff there. They're not talking about the condoms. They're not talking about the Sdis and they're not talking about their their What what may works for them.
[30:03] Allison: Well well they I mean it's interesting that you say that because one of the number one like feedback things I've gotten has been wow. It's great. How much you communicate so I don't know if this because I am a therapist you know I am a trained therapist right? so. So I am very communicative both pre and during and post Stephen but not so much post. But you know what I mean and so I I am very um, vocal in the bedroom I'm very clear I don't even remembered I talk about that in the book if I didn't I should have but like I you know it's like.
[30:28] Mike: So.
[30:42] Allison: I Have so many guys tell me like oh my God You wouldn't believe how many women don't make noise kind of lay there like a dead fish kind of this kind of that and I'm like really I and I don't even understand it. It's not like I'm making noise because I'm like trying to be a porn star. But when you're really in your body. Yeah I don't even know that I'm making noise sometimes like I've like like cover my hand and I'd or my mouth to keep me quieter and I didn't even realize because I was so sort of lost in the moment that I'm not aware of of what's happened you know of that happening. But.
[31:01] Keith: Um, yeah.
[31:07] Mike: You know so you but it's you're saying it's more sort of non so you're not speaking as much because when you at first when you started with oh so in in that context like what what? what kinds of things might you say.
[31:18] Allison: Well sometimes anyhow. Very directive like like over there down move down a little bit. Nope not there down you know and harder you know, like whatever just very I want like harder deeper penetration sometimes.
[31:27] Mike: Like what like.
[31:29] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[31:33] Mike: Harder What it when you say harder? What? what do you want to have happen. So does you want him to maneuver your legs in a different way or you actually want him to use more muscles and sort of hit the tennis ball harder. That's interesting.
[31:42] Allison: You know.
[31:47] Allison: Hit the tennis ball harder for sure. But.
[31:51] Mike: Keith do you get that feedback sometimes that you the the woman wants the tennis ball hit harder or are you already hitting so hard.
[31:56] Keith: No I Always I always use the ideal amount of force using Telekinesis I can tell what she wants I mean this experience of a woman especially in early sexual encounters ah clearly communicating what she likes is something that's happened to me. Very few times and it's frustrating because I have to sort of roll out this array of like trial balloons to try to find what she likes and it's inefficient for everybody but you know most women. I Don't know about most and yeah I wouldn't be careful not to like generalize many women are not as I think um, what is it of dating like a goddess like confident and you know feeling powerful in their in their you know wants and desires.
[32:40] Mike: Confident. Yeah.
[32:46] Allison: Google.
[32:51] Keith: Especially in early days. Yeah I mean certainly some women are more submissive. Um and taking control would sort of break that veil a little bit but.
[32:51] Mike: It could also be that they like that they I mean they could also want to be a more passive and so is not not take the ah you know.
[33:03] Mike: Yes.
[33:06] Keith: I Think there's something else going on there which is yeah I think you can be submissive but also even saying this yeah I was going to use the word directive and I was like okay I mean you could argue that that's an antonym to submissive but but in any case.
[33:14] Allison: Teractive.
[33:18] Allison: Yeah.
[33:22] Keith: I Think the spirit of being submissive is not necessarily completely antipetical to saying like look I don't like you know stimulation. Yeah I prefer you to run your finger along instead of across my clid or whatever it is you know or more pressure or less or.
[33:35] Allison: Now.
[33:39] Keith: Faster or slower I mean I think these things can be communicated and still letting the man feel like and be in charge.
[33:44] Allison: Right? I Wonder if I wonder if it's because women. Um, um I wonder now that we're talking about it How much it could be if a woman is with a man I I do think most women don't have casual sex and most women.
[33:46] Mike: Let me ah, can I go ahead.
[34:00] Allison: Have sex with someone they want to be in a relationship with so there's that and so if you're starting from that place and you're really invested in sort of quote unquote getting this guy to like you. You know one of the chapters in my book I talk about sort of the difference between being chosen versus being the chooser and I think. You know I say like the chapter's called house Cinderella fucked me up and so there's this idea we grow up on this idea especially women in my generation from Disney or whatever you know you want to say that you are supposed to be chosen that you're supposed to just like sit there and be pretty and be.
[34:27] Keith: Um, yeah.
[34:33] Allison: You know, cute and be whatever the guy wants you to be to get chosen and to like knock the stepsists out of your way so they're just like competition with other women thing that goes on and then there's this I just have to sit here and hope to get chosen rather than sort of a more empowered stance of actually I'm also doing the choosing and I can show up. On a date like I would show up on a job interview like yeah I want him to like me. But also I Want to say if I like him right and I just don't think a lot of women. Totally do that I think a lot of women fall for this idea that there's this scarcity of good men especially at Midlife. There's a scarcity of quote unquote good men left out there type of idea.
[35:10] Keith: Sure yeah.
[35:13] Allison: And so if they find someone they like they're just going to like hang on for dear life to do anything and everything to get them to like them and so I think what when that translates in the bedroom it is and this is what I've heard from some women. It is um. I know this guy could date someone 15 years younger than me with like a hot body and I have this old body saggy skin or whatever it is and so I'm very paranoid about that. So I want to keep the lights off I want to lay in a certain way I don't I don't like you know I don't want to be.
[35:40] Keith: Um, and.
[35:43] Allison: On top or underneath or whatever position. They feel their body doesn't look good in they don't want to be in that position because they don't want to the guy seeing them that way and and then losing interest you know So There's just this like fear kind of thing of how easily like oh if I give him a blowjob the wrong Way. He's going to leave me or whatever you know? So. There's just all this like year that goes into it. That I think keeps women really kind of frozen in their sexual experiences that I would imagine is partly why women are appearing to be kind of frozen and they're you know, having the dead fish kind of Persona or whatever. Um.
[36:15] Keith: Um, yeah.
[36:22] Keith: Yeah, they're sort of letting sex happen to them more than actively participate in.
[36:22] Mike: That makes sense I yeah.
[36:22] Allison: However, you want to say it.
[36:28] Allison: Right? and yet and there are women with a oh go ahead.
[36:31] Mike: I've never actually considered the notion of a woman I've never considered the notion of a woman being afraid ah while performing a blowjob that she wasn't performing it correctly.
[36:39] Allison: Oh my God they all I mean so many women do so many women they obsess on it people like research it. There's class thought on it.
[36:44] Keith: Yeah, yeah I think.
[36:47] Mike: Wait wait. So but but while while performing the act. So um, it makes sense to me that she might be thinking when's this going to end this is taking a long time but you're saying there's this other thought which is like Wow you know. Was his last girlfriend better at this is that like actually the more common thought.
[37:05] Allison: Yes I think so especially if it is taking a long time women take it personal and so then they say you know then they're thinking in their head like oh I'm not doing it right? because it's taking forever and this is another really interesting thing that I've discovered in Postourist dating has. So many guys will say to me pretty early. They'll say hey listen like sometimes it takes me a while to come. It's just because I'm getting older and please don't take it personally and I'm always like I will never take that personally like I don't like that's in some ways better for me right? but um, but they so they've told me. Women will cry women will run out of the room like they've had all these experiences where if they don't come in sort of this timeframe that the woman I guess thinks they're supposed to or whatever then the woman takes it personal and gets very very upset which then fucks what the guys had. And so then it makes it harder for him to perform into orgasm and it's just like this like um, vicious cycle that happens and I I've really like I've dated a handful of guys that have told me that so it's it's I think it must be kind of common because I think that would be. Weird that I would just happen to date. You know the few guys that have that experience I'm wondering if it's more and more common I'm wondering if it's obviously like you know we know that there's some performance stuff that goes along with the porn consumption and all that kind of stuff right? So I don't know. But.
[38:31] Keith: Um, yeah.
[38:33] Mike: I wanted to mention I wanted to mention that Keith while Keithham I don't want to speak for you too much here Keith but Keith I believe in his porn consumption prefers women who look perfect or close to perfect. In other words, he indexes highly on the. Specific attractiveness of the woman I think this is fairly common I'm not attacking Keith here but I also think there's like a really a very common thread which is which relates to your discussion of women's concerns about how they look specifically where I actually think it's yeah, it's it's maybe equally maybe more common for men to focus on. In porn on what the woman does more than how she looks? Of course. There's ah a delicate balance there. You could have a woman that is sufficiently unattractive that what she does cannot overcome that. But I think in a lot of cases. The it's the woman's um, approach that that can matter more and I think that reinforces your point that it's that. Women don't necessarily have to be concerned about that and probably if a guy is going to have a preference that's strongly attached to specifically attractiveness. He's not going to You're not going to get to the point where you're having sex anyway because he's going to be dating much younger or whatever women. So.
[39:44] Allison: Yeah, no, that's that's a good point I don't really think about it.
[39:48] Mike: He probably wants to defend himself about porn now.
[39:48] Keith: Well I don't even understand the attack is the attack that I like attractive women.
[39:53] Mike: No, no, it's It's not really an attack.. It's it's it's that it's that it's this.. It's that I think if you and my porn consumption people can see actually because I now have a subreddit curated amateur porn of the stuff that I consume actually I Actually to be honest when I post things to that subreddit. I Actually filter a little bit because of this concern because a lot of times there are things where the woman I think is not attractive enough that like it might I might get downvoted So I worry about that. It's a funny thing to worry about um but I would say that I think I Index more strongly on what's happening.
[40:28] Keith: Oh I safe.
[40:29] Mike: Then on the specific attractiveness and I think there are a lot of men who Index more so like ah so so you might say oh this. She's so hot. But I find the scene or the situation. Ah more important look if the person's very unattractive. That's it's going to be a problem but like I find what's happening to be more more important than. And actually like yeah just seeing a woman that's very attractive like dancing which is nice but that would be less arousing for me than yeah.
[40:52] Allison: So One of the things that one of the feedback that I've gotten that I you know addressed or tried to address in the book was that many guys have told me what's great about you know the experience that I've had with them. Was that I was really into it and that I was just cited and and so you know I don't I mean I I do think I'm an attractive person. So I Guess there is that so there is sort of a Baseline I mean we I I have to be with a person that I'm attracted to right? So There's a Baseline like.
[41:10] Mike: And.
[41:11] Keith: Um, yeah.
[41:27] Allison: You're already attracted to each other if you've gotten to that point which I guess is what you were saying right? and so what? a? but yeah.
[41:28] Keith: Yes, yeah, once you're in the bedroom like you've already. Yeah.
[41:30] Mike: Sure why? yeah actually here's I think we can get a specific point here. What's um, so you're you've described pretty well like your your your interest. Um Keith on a scale of 1 to 10 How interested are you in having sex with Allison or do you want me to go first.
[41:45] Keith: I think yes yeah, it's it's a yeah sure. Well, what's the scale is 5 average. Yeah I mean whatever. Yeah so I mean the point you're trying to make is like generally interested and and to the extent.
[41:47] Mike: I think I think given what she's described I'm like an 8 I'm not I'm not kidding big. Oh you're an 8 also okay I thought you would be lower because you'd be like yeah ok ok ok I was hoping you'd be lower than me. No I was hoping you'd be lower.
[42:05] Keith: Oh I mean such a subjective thing.
[42:06] Mike: Because you would Index more on I know but like but like I Okay, but yeah I Index pretty high on. Yeah so I mean I think that your general approach and attitude is is pretty attractive. So yeah I think that works.
[42:16] Allison: And that's something that I is teachable like that's that's the point right? is that you know someone's looks it's not is it is what it is but but someone's attitude in the bedroom and someone's like taking it lighthearted having fun. You know not I think.
[42:16] Keith: Yeah.
[42:34] Allison: Do I talk about this in the book I think I talk about this in the book like don't don't be just so focused on trying to get a guy to orgasm in a blowjob that you are like to the point where you're working at it and then they know that you're working at it and I've had guys tell me they can tell if a woman just wants it to be over with. They can tell. And then that actually makes it harder for them to Orgasm. So It's It's kind of like a lose lose. But if you're just like you know giving a guyball job and then doing something else and then back to it because it's fun for you If You're just following your own fun in the bedroom because you're just doing what feels good and what feels sexy in that moment then you know I think that.
[43:01] Keith: The app.
[43:09] Allison: That is where the win win comes and that is where because I I feel that most guys I always say 90% but some people argue with this point that number with me but I feel like 90% of guys actually want to make the woman really happy and want to give the woman a lot of pleasure and.
[43:13] Mike: Um, and.
[43:27] Allison: Obviously you guys only orgasm once and it's done so all the preamble is really about sort of pleasuring a woman and I say if you find a guy that that's not he's not into giving you pleasure then ditch him because there's like a million other guys out there who that is really what they want and that is what's fun and obviously you know. Guys want to orgasm too. But but that there's so much fun that can happen before that for you and if you really are open to receiving it and open to experiencing it and enjoying it and not just. Having sex to have sex and get it over with. But if you're in the moment and you're enjoying it and you're having fun then everybody's having fun if you're with a good guy.
[44:08] Keith: Yeah I think enthusiasm and like you know and not simulated enthusiasm like actual genuine enthusiasm and advocating for 1 ne's own pleasure is yeah, it's just attractive. Um.
[44:12] Allison: It was time. Yeah.
[44:24] Keith: And.
[44:25] Mike: Oh for sure I mean we've ah that that. Ah, for example, um, we did a show ah a few weeks ago about ah this relating to cam girls. You know the women who yeah, do live shows on the internet and and um, they make substantially more money if they take a more active.
[44:33] Allison: Like only Facebook but.
[44:37] Keith: All right.
[44:42] Mike: Kind of interested role ah than if they ah or approach I should say then if they are much more passive and are just sort of showing off their bodies. Um, and I think that's partly because it's so unusual for men, let me ask you a question Alison would you rather give the first ninety percent of a blowjob or the last ten percent
[45:00] Allison: Ooh That's a really interesting question.
[45:04] Keith: Ah, he saw it on Tiktok and he's been obsessed. So.
[45:08] Mike: Well, it is my tict tac feed my Tiktok feed is awesome. It's like ah it's like it's like it's an interspersing of sex and episodes of Matlock.
[45:09] Keith: Well his Tiktok feed is not like most or maybe it is anyway.
[45:12] Allison: If I.
[45:22] Allison: Ah, wow that just gave me a lot of psychological insight into your mind. Um, that's all I needed it. But um so I don't know I That's a tough question because ah I think both are good and it sort of depends again on.
[45:26] Keith: And.
[45:29] Mike: Drill.
[45:42] Allison: What's happening all around you know if I'm doing like the first ninety percent and then I'm getting some moral sex and then we're going back and then we're going.
[45:46] Mike: Now Let's say it's your let's say it's you know some sort of you know he's sitting on the edge of the bed you're on your knees in front of him pleasuring him. Yeah, let's not let's not assume that you're because I know you you were You are someone who receives a lot of pleasure I got that but let's assume that you're giving the pleasure in this case.
[45:53] Allison: And now.
[46:02] Allison: and and I'm only giving the pleasure and then with so I had to pick which would I pick I mean I do think like coming is hot. So I guess I would go with the 10% yeah
[46:04] Keith: Yes, yeah.
[46:06] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:12] Keith: There It is what.
[46:13] Mike: There we go. Okay and let me ask you this because this no no, it's not. It's not but it's what it's what I want to hear the ah the.
[46:17] Allison: But that reaction is that like it is that one most women say like what is it.
[46:23] Keith: And it makes sense given like yeah like she's enjoying. Yeah, she's enjoying sex more than the average gal I think and yeah.
[46:29] Mike: Would you if there was a way for the man not to ejaculate any semen but have an orgasm would you push that button. So so nothing came out. Ok you want the semen and coming out. Do you ah find that you enjoy.
[46:38] Allison: No no, that's no fun I don't.
[46:46] Mike: Ah, the direct connection to his orgasmic experience via the semen coming out in other words like you you you you get a tangible thing in return or if that did yes you're you're nodding so I figured Yes, yeah, this is brave.
[46:55] Allison: Yeah, yes, yes, yes I find it exciting it excites me for sure. It's very yeah. Um yeah I mean I I mean I can't believe I'm going to say this but I for instance I Somewhat recently had someone sending me some videos.
[47:05] Mike: Say it.
[47:12] Allison: And you know the videos were you know him pleasuring himself and then I was like um I want to see you come like what like why are you stopping before that like send me the good stuff. You know so.
[47:20] Keith: No interesting.
[47:23] Mike: So you so wait. So there's there's another Tiktok that I receive that. Ah that maybe you would agree with I've actually had women say negative things to me about this. But maybe they're just you know they're just lying. They're just like covering up their true selves.
[47:36] Keith: What is the this? okay.
[47:37] Mike: Ah, they say women don't want Dick Pics I know I'm getting there women don't want Dick Pics they want videos of you coming with sound turned on. Yeah you want the moaning right? So you would so you actually are definitely a candidate for like the subreddit called Chick flicks.
[47:47] Allison: Ah, yeah I would agree with that? yes.
[47:56] Mike: Which is a good subreddit that has a porn post it. That's it's completely curated by women who and they specifically look for like this kind of content with men moaning. Perhaps you prefer getting videos from your partners to you know, kind of private videos. But.
[47:56] Keith: Um, oh yeah.
[48:02] Allison: Really.
[48:08] Allison: Yeah I think yeah I mean I think I don't know like if it's a video and someone uses my name or something that's like Hotter. You know that kind of thing but I don't know I have a. Friend who is really into just dick pics like she she loves it. She thinks it's awesome and there was a point in time where.
[48:22] Mike: Oh can I get her phone number.
[48:25] Keith: Yeah, yeah, we we'd be happy to indulge her.
[48:29] Mike: We get. We get a number we get a number of dig picks at the show and so we have a we have a good. Oh yeah, we do? yeah.
[48:33] Keith: If we do yeah we could just for I Could just.
[48:35] Allison: To Ah, we can send it So Here's my funniest story about her. So I There was a point in time where I was um, it was actually during the Pandemic. So I actually wasn't actually dating any of these guys but I was having a lot of sort of you know. Fun erotic conversations and just things to get through the pandemic um with multiple men so I was getting ah I did have several but ah yeah, yeah, and um, and so getting a lot of different tickbicks and so I was I would send them to her because I knew she liked him and so she said.
[48:54] Keith: Sure.
[48:56] Mike: You were having phone phone sex. Yeah.
[49:10] Allison: One day it popped up on her Apple watch in a work meeting and she was like ah then the funniest was you know world started opening up I decide to go out with one of the guys and I actually meet him for a date and she was like oh is this the big pink 1
[49:11] Keith: Oh my.
[49:13] Mike: Sure probably.
[49:30] Allison: Like I was like oh my God you are matching my guys with their dick pics. That's amazing. It was was accurate. It was accurate. She guessed it right was like well.
[49:32] Keith: Yeah money the men you're dating have dick signatures. That's great.
[49:32] Mike: Was was it was it the big pink 1
[49:44] Allison: Ah, yeah, it was really funny.
[49:46] Mike: Yeah, that's a risk I mean because if you had started data. You know if she met him and so forth. Maybe she would I mean would yeah and she also might then be interested in. You know a relationship with him given that her I see.
[49:56] Allison: Well, she if she was dating someone. There's.
[49:59] Keith: Well and I think like that sort of detached penis I don't know yeah I don't know. Yeah, it's okay, here's a question could okay first first off, let me stipulate I don't think most people like receiving dick picks.
[50:16] Allison: I Would agree with that I don't think I and I don't love receiving them either just especially on um on app or yeah, unsolicited.
[50:17] Keith: Um, okay, but.
[50:24] Keith: Solicited right? right? But ok for to the extent that a ah dick pick Connoissaur exists. Um I think we've we've we have we have found one here now. Yeah like could kids someone significant I Guess yeah.
[50:37] Allison: Um, yes.
[50:39] Mike: She might be doing it just because she thinks it's funny and it doesn't mean that's erotic for her friend. In other words I'm somewhat I'm actually very skeptical that she has you know a gallery of these dick pics that she masturbates you wait. What but does she masturbate to them.
[50:48] Allison: Oh yes, she she definitely does on her hidden folder in her phone Sometimes yeah I mean that's what she said? Yeah I mean this has like a high sex drive and like you know I mean at this point she's actually in a a like of of.
[50:56] Keith: Ah ha.
[50:59] Mike: Is there I mean is there something unusual about her otherwise like ah.
[51:05] Keith: So.
[51:08] Allison: Relationship that appears to be long term So probably she doesn't do that anymore I'm guessing but there was a point I mean I think again it was right out of her marriage when you get out of a long term marriage and she's she's actually the one that would say this when you get out of a long term marriage and you're now midlife and you're no longer looking to meet and appropriateate with the.
[51:10] Mike: More thing. Okay.
[51:26] Allison: Father of your children. You know you date very differently. It's it's just I mean you can date very differently and if it's if what you if you're not looking to even necessarily get married again. You date very differently and so it's much more I think it can be and this is part of why I wrote the book is it can be much more about what you want.
[51:28] Keith: Um, yeah.
[51:45] Allison: You know and a lot of women have spent most of their lives. You know, kind of making sure their kids are okay making sure their husband's okay, playing second fiddle and now it's like you're single again sky full stars is open to you. You can have you can date whatever you want you can you know mess around and and. A guy who you would never necessarily see yourself in a long-term relationship with but if it's fun and he's sexy and you're into it. You can do that you can do that for a few months and move on I mean it's just it's just a totally different mental state than I think when you're dating in your twenty s and thirty s you are looking for a long term relationship. And so you're going to rule guys out faster or you're not going to get involved with certain guys because you're like ah that wouldn't make a good sort of life partner kind of thing. But when you're dating at midlife post. Of course she's not thinking about that anymore or a lot of women aren't some are some back in relationship.
[52:33] Mike: And this is because of the this is because of the emotional slash biological imperative to have children that women experience in their twenty s and 30 s.
[52:43] Allison: Yeah, maybe yeah I mean I think I think a lot of women want that I suppose if if you didn't want kids. Maybe you are dating in that different way from the geto. But I I feel like most women do a lot of you know, Ah, it's a very high percentage right? I don't know but um.
[52:56] Keith: Yes, it's high. Yeah yeah.
[52:58] Mike: I assume.
[53:01] Allison: Yeah, it appears that way. It appears that way. So Yeah I think that that's that that's different I think it's it can dating Post-divor can be really empowering. It can be really fun I mean one of the things I talk about in the book is that it actually restored my faith in men. That I hadn't had the best experiences ah premarriage I didn't necessarily have the best experience with the ending of my marriage and then when I went out and started dating I started dating these really great guys who were awesome. You know and it would wait.
[53:32] Mike: Except for the condom thing I mean there's one like well seriously ah you but you sort of lowered lowered my faith in in it a bit because of that I think particularly at a certain age. You would expect a man to not act like a.
[53:36] Allison: Was a hurd we got over really quick. Ah.
[53:48] Allison: Know but all the good ones like didn't fight me on it or didn't you know or I did have 1 guy I think I talk about in the book right? get up and actually leave and go to Walgreens and come back. You know so I think that.
[53:50] Mike: Sort of spoiled child in that regard.
[54:02] Mike: Yeah, but like.
[54:05] Allison: I Don't know I met I Met a lot of really good guys I've met a lot of guys that really truly wanted to make me happy wanted to you know serve and and be given me pleasure and but also not just in the bedroom but like everywhere you know, just good guys that wanted to.
[54:09] Mike: Um.
[54:23] Allison: Do write and all that fun stuff. So that's good.
[54:26] Mike: There's there's a loose end from something that Allison said earlier that I'd like to ask about really quickly Keith it? Um, ah, you mentioned that you like to communicate a lot when having sex and before sex but not so much after the sex is that because like me, um. When the sex act completes you would prefer that the partner not be there anymore. So you can be alone and avoid any intimacy is that why you feel that way or is there. Some other reason you won't communicate.
[54:51] Allison: Um, there have been times that I did feel that way. Yes, like if I wasn't if I was just like with someone that it was more about the sex and not the relationship.
[54:56] Keith: Um, ah.
[54:57] Mike: Yes, yes, so you want you want to end. but but importantly ah let's see this is where this is where we're going to diverge Keith don't worry. Um, importantly. Um, if you like the partner or if it's not just purely about sex. You actually do enjoy this sort of intimate cuddly feeling after the sex. Don't you oh but not as much well this is I think my attraction my my contraction went from an 8 to a 9 this is great. So like.
[55:15] Allison: Um I have I have I always.
[55:27] Mike: So like you would be fine with having sex with the guy and then you like you like retire to separate rooms and like read a book or my loan amazing Who is this person This is great.
[55:28] Allison: And remember I took through was this? Yeah yeah I Yeah I could be kind. Yeah I mean I have definitely.
[55:36] Keith: She Mike she has to be careful here because like yeah like she's she's dating around and so yes, she might yeah she has to be careful what she says here because she doesn't would like all prospective partners who aren't a sociopath like you to. Yeah, yeah, she can't she can't like as like boldly signal this is as you do. But yeah.
[55:58] Mike: I I Guess it's bold.
[55:58] Allison: Well I mean I think that I think that you know there's a couple things one like I really like morning sex. So obviously I want the partner to be there if I want to have morninging sex. But I've definitely been in situations where I've had sex with someone and then left and went immediately home. You know I've I.
[56:06] Mike: Um, this is great.
[56:17] Allison: So when I remember I told you my friends say you, you are like a guy when it comes to sex like I I think that's part of what they're talking about and as much as like we're joking around about it Actually I mean I am a therapist right? So I've studied attachment theory and I do I have identified that I have an avoidant attachment style.
[56:21] Keith: Um, yeah.
[56:34] Mike: So what does that mean.
[56:34] Keith: Okay.
[56:36] Allison: It? Um, Okay, so there's this really good book out there called attached if anyone is interested in reading about this but there's basically 3 main attachment styles that people have it's secure anxious and avoid it and so they're kind of what they sound like you know secure is. You're able to be in Relationship. You're able to be in Partnership. You're able to have and it's pretty comes pretty easy to you anxious is when you are like clingy Needy. You know you're very fearful about right? exactly So You're very fearful.
[56:55] Mike: Her.
[57:02] Mike: Okay, so move to the next one? Yeah now.
[57:04] Keith: Maybe jealous.
[57:10] Allison: And about losing the partner so you do all these things that you know paradoxically drive the partner away and then avoid it is when you struggle with intimacy and you need a lot of space and you worry about losing your freedom So that's for me I always worry about losing my freedom. That's what I That's what I struggle with with being really.
[57:21] Mike: That sounds right? So that's normal so that's normal is that around one third of people it. Oh.
[57:28] Keith: Um, Mike's like that's the good one.
[57:31] Allison: It's my it's not normal because it's the lower percentage I forget what percentage it is in the population. But I mean anxious and avoidant or both lower percentage secure is the highest percentage. Oh yeah yeah, yeah it might be like upwards of 20 I don't I shouldn't I shouldn't say that because I really don't help.
[57:39] Mike: Well, it's more than it's more than 1% and avoidance more than 1% okay okay oh there we go and is and is is is is the idea is the idea in therapy to sort of um teach somebody about.
[57:46] Keith: Yeah, we shouldn't speculate. But yeah.
[57:49] Allison: Right? I shouldn't speculate but it's not uncom.
[57:56] Allison: Yeah.
[57:56] Mike: Being Avoidant or is it to actually like move them toward ah like in other words is it is it. Okay for me to stay avoidant is that ok.
[58:01] Allison: Well I mean it's it's it's up to you if you if it's okay with you to not be in truly in you know, intimate relationships and to experience true vulnerable intimacy. Yeah so if it's not a problem for you.
[58:09] Mike: Yeah I like it right I don't mean.
[58:16] Allison: So in therapy we describe things as either ego disstonic or Ego Syn Tonic okay so if it's ego SSinTonic it could be a problem like a diagnosable problem. But if it's not a problem to you. You're not going to work on it. So as a therapist we wouldn't even try to work on it with you if it's ego distonic is something that makes you uncomfortable I mean to a certain extent my avoidance.
[58:28] Keith: Um, right.
[58:36] Allison: You know my avoidant tendencies make me a little uncomfortable because I know that I'm missing out and I know that I'm not going to truly be um.
[58:40] Mike: I don't think you are I think that I think that I think you be because think of all the things you can do during that like 30 minutes that someone like Keith is just lying in a bed like stroking somebody. You could be you could like go build something you could learn something. It's great.
[58:54] Keith: Ah, making the time savings.
[58:56] Allison: And that.
[58:58] Mike: You're just you're just having a better life. It's just strictly better. Yeah I mean you could even make money during that I mean you could do us a counseling session during that 30 minutes right I mean it's great. It's fantastic and I see nothing wrong with it I'm just pleased I'm just pleased to find out that it's like us. It's not like.
[59:06] Allison: Really okay.
[59:09] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that.
[59:16] Mike: This is actually the because I've repeatedly brought this up is like a ah thing and and Keith sort of jokes that something wrong with me and it's like oh it's it's reassuring to know that it's like sort of within the normal bell curve or whatever.
[59:28] Allison: Yeah, well and so here's the other problem though avoidant people tend to attract anxious people and so then they have these very tumultuous relationships because it's you know the 1 person is being clingy and needy and the 1 person is pulling away in a way and so it just it creates a lot of problems. Um.
[59:43] Mike: Yeah, well you just have to learn as the avoidant person not to pull away but just to not care. You just like oh yeah I see I see you're anxious that must suck for you? yeah.
[59:45] Allison: Look out.
[59:48] Allison: Sure I.
[59:57] Allison: Yeah I want to give 1 quick caveat though you can flip in and out like I I have been the one 1 time in a relationship and with an avoidant person so it you can kind of flip but you most people tend to have ah a primary style that they.
[01:00:02] Keith: Um, okay sure.
[01:00:08] Mike: Well maybe it's It's the more powerful the the person you were in the relationship with was that a more powerful avoidant than you are. So then you you you took on the other role I do strive to be I think I am on the more powerful end of that spectrum. So yeah.
[01:00:16] Allison: If perhaps yeah you number 1 in the avoidant category.
[01:00:26] Keith: Ah, so.
[01:00:27] Mike: Potentially potentially.
[01:00:32] Keith: All right guys I'm sorry but we are out of time you guys both have meetings. You're not as degenerate as I but yeah Allison thank you so much for joining us. This was a this was a very entertaining conversation. Um, you want to.
[01:00:38] Mike: First.
[01:00:45] Allison: Thanks wait I Hope I don't regret it. Ah.
[01:00:48] Keith: I Don't think you've said anything embarrassing in my opinion I think you've been open and honest and yeah, um, do you want to? do you want to advertise anything here for our listeners.
[01:00:52] Allison: Ah, forthright? Yes, yeah, yeah, sure sure so at my website learn to date like a goddess.com any of your listeners can go there and download a free copy of my ebook. Find Love again, learn to date like a goddess and I am very passionate about women changing their experience in Midlife dating becoming Empowered. There's lots of tools in there are lots of lessons for helping women to make that mental shift and to make it stick with the eft Tapping. So. I am happy to get that out to your listeners.
[01:01:27] Keith: All right? Cool yeah, go take a look guys. As for us, you can reach us at y m mv pod to gmail.com that's the place to ask us questions or give us feedback. Thanks Allison thanks to Mike thanks for listening and we look forward to catching you next time on your mileage may vary.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 115: Internal And External Orgasms, Sex After Marriage, Male Contraceptive Irresponsibility

Episode Transcript