Your Mileage May Vary: Male Gaze Blowjobs, Free Use Dominance, Condom Cocktail Conversation, Prone Bone

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we'll be talking prone bones free use fantasies. Whether sex is good exercise and more and Keith my co-host is Mike hello Mike.
[00:15] Mike: So Hello keith.
[00:18] Keith: I can see you're unpacking something over there. This is going to feel rehearsed but it's not what do you? What are you doing.
[00:25] Mike: Well so I got um I've I'm a reviewer for bed bible now of um sex toys and I got my first delivery now I mean I got 2 things here. 1 is a thing of lube which I'm actually frankly, not that interested in. Um.
[00:37] Keith: What kind is it oil based or water based well, that's the first thing you told me about so far so we'll see.
[00:41] Mike: Um, lord so you're more interested in the lube. That's it's it's still in plastic here. So I need a airpoint I got well the yeah I got to unwrap ah, let me just unwrap it and then I'll look at it in a bit. Um the but more the one I was more immediately drawn to was the nine Inch purple ribbed glass dildo
[00:49] Keith: All right.
[00:57] Keith: Okay, our listeners won't be able to enjoy this but can you hold that up to the camera for me. Wow.
[01:02] Mike: Any yeah in a bag so I'm taking it out of the bag for the first time here and ah wow, it's kind of cold to the touch it got it is ribbed. It's let's see Nine Inch I guess that's nine inches long this around the length of my penis I guess me check here.
[01:14] Keith: What do those ribs do is it as they sort of go in and out they rub against the clit and and sensationalize it.
[01:24] Mike: I mean I don't obviously have any direct experience in the only orifice I could use it in my mouth I guess but the only other one is one I'm probably not going to use it on. Um I Yeah I think it's probably to create I Got to think like G spot stimulation right? sort of like a the wave.
[01:35] Keith: But you would think the tip would be more I guess not yeah, you can sort of get past the G spot with the tip and then use those things.
[01:42] Mike: This makes me think this makes me think of one of those have you ever watched the lock picking lawyer. He's on ticktock but he's on Youtube as well. It's this guy. It's this guy people send him locks and he basically demonstrates that like any lock can be picked in like 5 seconds hurt you know
[01:48] Keith: Now.
[01:56] Keith: Ok I've seen content like this. Yes.
[02:01] Mike: Yeah, So anyway, one of the typical lock picking tools is a rake and the rake is basically to you stick it in the lock and it it pushes up different. It has waves on it that basically will push up the different tumblers different amounts then you can get them to lock into place and turn the lock this actually makes me think of that it it has the same sort of form where it's It's kind of undulating Ribs. You can kind of use it to unlock your a girl's pussy Apparently yes, and then there's and then at the other end there's this bead which makes it look. Although I think it's just supposed to be a handle Ah, where there's no ribs. But I mean it makes me think of those ones where like.
[02:20] Keith: Your vaginal pleasure huh. I Think it is yeah.
[02:35] Mike: That can't be. We're like you 2 women could use it on each other where one's jams sorry jams the wrong word, but okay.
[02:37] Keith: No, it's not that it's not that it's just because if there's lube on it. It can be hard to grip and so it's it's like it's like the end of a baseball bat. It sort of stops your hand from sliding down.
[02:45] Mike: So this is sort of interesting so look look at how my hand is around it notice how my thumb is overlapping my fingers see that and you see generally the Width This is much narrower than a penis right.
[02:52] Keith: Yes, yeah, yeah, that does seem a little bit the other circumference the diameters kind of potentially not great.
[03:04] Mike: I think so like if I yeah I think of there is nothing for me to resume my ah Amazon echo device 1 to weigh in there anyway, it's nice purple thing. We'll have to get some ah some you use out of it.
[03:12] Keith: Um.
[03:16] Keith: Are you going to introduce that into your bedroom.
[03:21] Mike: I told my wife that ah so I had to go pick this up and um I had to get so a po box um an airsats po o box. Not really a po box. There's this service where you can pay like $10 a month and get basically they'll deliver stuff to an office and and you can come pick it up. It's kind of clever.
[03:37] Keith: Um, okay.
[03:40] Mike: Service anyway and the reason why of course is because I didn't want this stuff getting mailed to my real address my real name and so forth. Um, so I used my stage name Mike Johnson I think you're Keith Smith's right? so anyway ah so I had to go get it because there was a snafu with it getting delivered it being a new.
[03:52] Keith: That's right I am Keith Smith
[04:00] Mike: Set up and my wife is like what why are you? where are you going? you know Saturday morning. So it's like oh I'm just picking something up then I came back with this box. She's like oh what? What did? What did you get and I was like and I told her and she's she she was sort of interested actually so but I had not yet unpacked it. She was actually seemed interested so we'll see she said that sounds fun.
[04:04] Keith: Are.
[04:11] Keith: Yeah, did her eyes get get wider or all right? Well if you decide trying to think I was going to say if you decide you don't want to use it I'll take it and see if I can find somebody.
[04:20] Mike: Like okay.
[04:30] Keith: Who's interested in giving it a shot. But yeah I don't think I won it I mean technically I could use it after you'd used it. But there's something that feels a little bit and it is definitely cleanable. It's cleanable in a way that would I could not differentiate it between a new one.
[04:30] Mike: But okay.
[04:39] Mike: Yeah, it is glass put in the dishwasher. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah I mean I have already touched the ribs and so forth. So I mean that that's happened but um.
[04:48] Keith: I know I saw that cross my mind.
[04:53] Mike: Yeah, and I'm and 1 of their official reviewers now. So I do expect to continue assuming that I fulfill my function of having gp write reviews just kidding writing reviews myself for it. Ah then I think we'll continue to get toys. So no worries there.
[05:04] Keith: Right? right? All right? Well let's move on So I'll go ahead.
[05:09] Mike: By the way it's hard as a guy. It's hard as a guy to get to do this I'm actually sort of proud of myself that as a man I mean for a woman to get to be a sex toy reviewer pretty easy I think but for a man not non trivial like nobody wants to hear what men have to say so it's sort of true.
[05:19] Keith: Yeah, we're we're Heroes in the sex space. You know we're big big time celebrities now.
[05:26] Mike: We are the ah then except for that guy who like has 2 ah 2 stars on Itunes and for some reason is above us where the number we are the number 1 male hosted sex and relationship podcast. So I listen to a bit of it. It's terrible. Yeah.
[05:37] Keith: Have you listened to his show I should do that just for a giggle. Yeah I'm I'm shocked so I can remember if it was our last episode or when it was it was it was recent. We were talking about condoms and when to. Bring it up with a partner and oh yeah, it was with ah I believe is with Celeste Moore when we interviewed her and she was saying that ah she gives the spiel about how she is you know, really sensitive about her health and you know.
[06:00] Mike: Okay, yeah.
[06:15] Keith: If At some point they become some sort of like a longer term thing then they can both get Std tests and then at some point after that they could Forego the use of of condoms. But before that she strongly insists on it. Ah, it's great. Policy. It's very healthy and safe. Ah I Think. A better time to bring this up than once you're in the bedroom is when you are maybe at dinner maybe on a date where you are not sure which direction things are going to go that evening because merely bringing up the topic sort of. Introduces it into the you know constellation environment of of topics and you might be able to pick up something from the woman about whether she's interested in having sex with you that evening. What do you think about that.
[07:07] Mike: Okay, so I think that's possible. Um, and I think it's a kind of a clever move. So essentially the guy. So um, why don't we role play this a little bit like what would do you want to be the I since you're the one who deploys this technology. Why don't you say what? you would say as if I was the. The date and we're at dinner and it's say the second date and it's not clear if we're going to be having sex I'm just sort of curious like how this I like how the pattern actually works because importantly, like I mean it could be deployed in a way where it just would turn the woman off almost immediately like you know hey what's your what's your take on condoms or something like that's not that's not where you're going right.
[07:34] Keith: Yeah, yeah, no I think the trick is to sort of vilify other less mature men so you can say something like.
[07:44] Mike: Okay, yeah.
[07:48] Keith: Is it true that most men would just have sex with you without even talking about birth control or protection and then.
[07:53] Mike: So then highly likely the response is something like you would not believe some of the experiences I've had like guys who seem totally mature and then they just just don't seem to care about that like what's yeah and then maybe she might say why? Why do you bring that up.
[08:08] Keith: I would say well and then you can I mean depending on the response you might say something like gosh that's crazy I mean are you on birth control does that even matter like it's a first encounter like you could be worried about disease and then and yes.
[08:20] Mike: Wait are you are you asking her in that case if she's on birth control or are you still playing? Oh you? no no okay, okay that just feels really quick so you basically the first thing of the pattern was have you heard this thing about guys. Not.
[08:27] Keith: Now I'm asking her to want me to repeat what I just said.
[08:39] Mike: Using condoms and then the second thing when she sort of agrees that it's male behavior is crappy you then ask her if she's on the pill.
[08:46] Keith: Yeah, but the it's the intonation is important and that that's not like the consequential part of that inquiry is important.
[08:50] Mike: Okay.
[08:56] Mike: Oh okay, Okay, so you're not actually asking that was that this is the point of I was trying to figure out if you're asking her if she's on Boy Birth control or if you're just saying like this could be a question that might arise well which is it. Okay.
[09:05] Keith: Right? Like you, you can say something like I mean it doesn't even matter if you're on birth control like there's still the disease risk right? and then they'll probably offer it or in their response.
[09:14] Mike: Got it? Okay, okay.
[09:20] Keith: If they don't offer. Yeah, you could just read the room and and get a lot of information.
[09:23] Mike: Have you ever deployed I mean I don't know how many times you've deployed this tactic but I feel like there's a little bit of an Iq test component here in that when you said when you started saying it I thought in my the small part of my brain that was female before I was before I became male in the gestation process. I Immediately had this reaction of like oh he wants to fuck me like like I could see I could see like I could actually see like a couple moves ahead on the chessboard like what you were doing.
[09:43] Keith: Um, this is.
[09:53] Keith: I think every date a woman ever goes on is built on that premise I don't think you can like I don't think you can materially dial that back without coming off probably as beta in the first place.
[09:58] Mike: Interesting.
[10:05] Mike: So and this is probably a male gays problem where where the issue fundamentally is that if I get the sense that a guy wants to fuck me I Really don't like that because I'm not gay whereas for her like that's actually you know it's like that's why she's there on some level. She wants to start a relationship what she expects will be sexual.
[10:22] Keith: Right.
[10:24] Mike: As well as other thing. Okay, so yeah I think that's often by the way a problem guys have in interpreting these situations is that because we are so I'm calling it malegays to sort of poke fun at like the feminist notion around Malegays but like yeah, there's this thing where men find sex with men gross hetero men. Do.
[10:39] Keith: Yeah.
[10:41] Mike: And so anything that's leading that direction. We think well why would you ever want that and it's like well actually women do want that sometimes which is you know good for us I guess.
[10:51] Keith: Yeah I mean it seems maladaptive except for the kids thing but apparently women like it.
[10:57] Mike: So Well and also yeah, So what? Ah well I mean this this if this purple ribbed dildos any guide like there's something they get out of.. It's not a vibrator for the clit after all people buy it. Although maybe it's only men who buy it.. That's why she sent it to me. Ah, the. But so how I mean I Assume you've deployed this tactic more than twice or more than once or something and how what can you give any sort of sense to our listeners. What the? ah the hit rate or like just what happens.
[11:16] Keith: Sure.
[11:22] Keith: Well, the tactic here is a general strategy which is to bring up. Yeah, you're like sort of vilifying other men. You're turning the conversation toward a sex thing where they can express.
[11:28] Mike: Turn the sacks.
[11:41] Keith: You know, sort of despair with other experiences they've had and then you can reassure them that like look.. Ah yeah, like I definitely use permission unless we had like a careful ah permission I would definitely use protection unless we had a you know, careful conversation about that beforehand. And you know I would want to understand whether or not you're on Birth Control. You know when the last time you've been tested is and yeah, like just.
[12:06] Mike: Right here.
[12:09] Keith: It's It's basically impossible to go through a conversation like that without finding out whether or not they're on birth control and when the last time they've had an Std is a Std test is.
[12:18] Mike: Yes, but the okay so so generally what you're doing is you're just um, sort of oiling the the bowling alley. So so to speak for um, her feeling way more comfortable about maybe going to the bedroom with you because she now feels confident that like you're that there's this. There's this question Martha you're just removed.
[12:34] Keith: Correct She she doesn't need to worry about the experience that she normally has where you know the pants come off and then suddenly there's a exposed penis and it's yeah that the conversation hasn't been had.
[12:36] Mike: Basically she knows she feels comfortable. Um, however, the sort of.
[12:50] Mike: You right? right? Um, but well I don't think you do but the maybe you the yeah I was I'm going to say I'm going to say that the the Magnus Carlson or perhaps Judith pogar.
[12:54] Keith: I know which I know what the second thing you're going to say is but go ahead, you're going to say it. It has a negative impact as well. A potential negative impact.
[13:08] Mike: Among dating women would ah realize that ah this implies that you have a very you're a very of experienced data.
[13:16] Keith: Yeah, but I think that's another thing that women just assume right? but I'm like I'm 42 right like I'm not 23 if I were 23 there might be some benefit and like pretending to be coy and like not knowing how things work but at 42 like women know.
[13:22] Mike: That the guys are very experienced daters. Okay.
[13:36] Keith: Generally that I want to have sex and or if I was dating people who are like really church going or whatever then maybe but yeah, like the kind of women I date like I don't think there's any ambiguity about that anyway and if there is ambiguity about that. You're not getting laid in the first place like if they're looking for somebody who ah is sheepish.
[13:42] Mike: Yeah, okay, the kind of women Oh because it are interesting.
[13:55] Keith: Or inexperienced in in this regard then you're probably not getting late on an early date.
[14:00] Mike: Okay, is that what you thought I was going to say more or less.
[14:05] Keith: I Now I thought you were going to say something around the idea of um, making things explicit can take away some of the impulsiveness and there could be some.
[14:18] Mike: Now that that that on that one I think that assuming that she does not a perceive you as like kind of a playa or B to your point like she's just like look this guy's old enough that he's had enough relationships. So like that's not something I'm worried about ah I think that it could only pretty much help. Because you're you're essentially reassuring her that in that other room something terrible is not going to Happen. It's like it's like actually a really really good signaling methodology. This reminds me of the time when I was in college that I went to see ah I was my my gay as I Learned. Ah.
[14:42] Keith: That's the attempt? yes.
[14:52] Mike: Guy who the professor who lived in our dorm wanted to go to a movie with me. Um, and I didn't know I didn't I was pretty young I didn't know he was gay anyway, the movie was I think called booty call and it was all about it was a terrible comedy from like the 90 s and it was all about um okay it was it was all about like getting a condom and like.
[15:04] Keith: I Remember that movie. It's like the way in Brothers I think.
[15:11] Mike: At some point watching the movie I was like this this dude wants to fuck me.
[15:15] Keith: Ah, why was a gay professor allowed to live in a dormitory that that's like ah that's that's almost worse than the Catholic Church
[15:21] Mike: For Well I mean that's pretty ah ah, non ah non acceptpting of different lifestyle or um, genetic traits. What are you going to call it of you. A lot of colleges. They have sort of a professor who kind of oversees each dorm.
[15:29] Keith: Ok, why is a professor allowed to live in a dormitory.
[15:38] Mike: And kind of like is there to ask answer questions and stuff and yeah, that didn't strike me on some level I think your question boils down to why is like a man allowed to full that role. Um, maybe but anyway yeah.
[15:38] Keith: Ah.
[15:47] Keith: Yeah I mean I think it's I think it's a reasonable question to ask like should men be allowed to coach like high school women sports teams.
[15:55] Mike: Yeah I mean he was to be fair look okay I have no idea if he actually he he did want to see the movie with me I have no idea if he was actually coming on to me. It's possible I'm not sure how the movie got selected and he was in general like a very nice and helpful man who never did anything weird weird to or with me. But yeah.
[16:07] Keith: Sure sure sure sure all right? Okay, right? right? right? Yeah is this a trojan horses.
[16:13] Mike: But it just reminds me that because the movie was all about like condom usage which was yeah so you could like take your date to that movie and be like oh man, those condoms I love them you say? ah you know yet dinner you could say you know I'm already wearing a condom I have one on right now I have to go pee and if I unroll it.
[16:21] Keith: Right.
[16:29] Keith: Um, to make sure that since I got out of the shower and rubbed my dick with alcohol that it has no exposure to any possible contaminants. Ah.
[16:35] Mike: Um, that's right I like but I like your tactic of just basically saying those guys you don't like condoms. What's wrong with them. Essentially you know.
[16:42] Keith: I fairly often in the past have had the experience where a woman is like I'm on birth control. We don't need to use condoms. Yeah, like even even without a conversation about it.
[16:51] Mike: For the first encounter and what it did are you willing to say what happens next or not because I could see you wanting to no man like let's stipulate that no men like conduct. So.
[17:06] Keith: Yeah, so this hasn't happened recently. So I'm absolved of any current disease risk. But ah I think in the past I've used condoms most of the time but I definitely can't say that you have all of the time.
[17:08] Mike: Okay.
[17:18] Mike: Interesting, interesting. Do you ever? So in the case where you didn't.
[17:22] Keith: Which but which and in case, it's not explicitly clear is really stupid because if you know that they're letting you have sex with them without a condom. They have likely and as great as I am and is drawn to me as they may be. It's at least probable that they've let other people have sex with them without a condom.
[17:39] Mike: Recently yeah, possibly within the last twenty four hours so then you're you're mixing your guys with his guys but the ah hang on sit so a couple questions about that when that happens do you ah typically ejaculate inside the young woman.
[17:41] Keith: Right? Okay I mean in that case, it's probably not contagious yet.
[17:56] Keith: This doesn't happen often enough that that's that there's any kind of trend line here.
[17:56] Mike: Her vagina in other words, do you do the act that would create a baby all righty um and when this has happened ah, do you have you had occasion to sort of regret it the day after or two days after be like dang it. Maybe I I may now have herpes or something. Herpes you can get by the way with a condom. So maybe that was a bad example. Um, no I'm not at all asking that I'm asking whether the day after you sort of are like I should've worn a condom. Do you regret it at all, especially once the play any of it.
[18:15] Keith: Are you asking if I've ever had an std.
[18:26] Keith: Oh because I'm worried I may have gotten them pregnant or something I don't understand the question.
[18:32] Mike: Yeah, any of it basically is it something you you know, obviously in the momi you get ah an orgasm that's maybe 1 or 2 points better you you enjoy the experience better. But I'm just curious whether you then subsequently come to regret that. Just just emotionally not because something bad happens. You just are are yeah at home the next day and you're like fuck that was stupid. Okay.
[18:44] Keith: Well now I don't think so I'm not I'm so like super hyper rational like I don't Okay, if if I've done something that incurs like some sort of X percent risk you know, but let's say I've done something that incurs like a you know.
[18:59] Mike: Triumph.
[19:04] Keith: 1% risk that I got someone pregnant or ah, you know it's probably even smaller percent risk of contracting an std I I think some people would just like prociferate over that until they find out whether or not either those things happen like you you read about people who you know take plan b almost.
[19:15] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[19:22] Keith: Prophylactically um and.
[19:24] Mike: Yeah I ah I think that um if we if we had any sort of like people that were kind of famous in pop culture listening to this podcast. This would be more helpful but I think we could coin a term there. We will talk about micro mortz which is the standard term for 1 in a million chance of dying so like. Riding a motorcycle a certain distance has like a few micromorts because motorcycles are quite dangerous. This could be like a micro drip for dripticck so you'd be like that girl I just I had a sex with a girl without a con and I think I incurred 10 micro drips.
[19:51] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[19:54] Keith: Yeah I don't know how to evaluate the risk of various people probably the younger if they're younger, they're more likely to be sexually active but they're less likely actually I think the only thing that matters with stds is how sexually active they've been in the last few months
[20:11] Mike: I Have no idea maybe yeah, be interesting to know how many.
[20:14] Keith: Because most women most women don't carry Chlamydia they can and men can carry various sexual diseases for a long time but most women figure it out within fairly short order. Not all most.
[20:21] Mike: Right? Which is ironic because the female you'd think it would be more hidden in the woman because it's in it's inside and the guy guy could just see it. Yeah, it's those those mucus membranes it's rough. Yeah.
[20:30] Keith: I Think they're symptomatic I think they're symptomatic in ways that men's often aren't men often aren't yeah so anyway folks wear condoms That's a good idea. Why.
[20:40] Mike: Okay, so yeah, even wearing a condom is probably one micro Drp first per sex act. Oh because of like you could have herpes. Yeah yeah, and there you know it could rip there various things can happen. It might be. It's probably more than a microdrip. Actually I mean it's probably more like a hundred honestly like 1 in 10000
[20:49] Keith: Oh because you can get herpes or something right? Yeah what right.
[20:59] Mike: Anyway, it's an I mean probably one micro drip. 1 microdrip is probably just each day you have some small chance of getting gonorrhea just from like touching something I mean a millionth of it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[21:03] Keith: It's probably more than that for herpes right? like isn't herpes really common.
[21:13] Keith: Touching a toilet seat I I had a well let's move on. Ah um, ok I wanted to talk about the use of oral sex and its cadence. And typical sexual encounters so oral on the man. So we've we've danced around this a little bit in the past but I want to like codify it more because I'm committing to letting women Flooding. Ah.
[21:33] Mike: Oral on the man woman. Both perfect.
[21:41] Mike: Yeah.
[21:48] Keith: Yeah, letting women go down on me more in future sexual encounters than I have in the past.
[21:51] Mike: And you've also expressed an interest in ah being the active participants so sort of ah you know face fucking more as well. That's something that's interesting to you too. Okay, that's too bad I like that part.
[21:59] Keith: Sure? But that's not relevant to this conversation. So are people when people have like a sexual encounter or at least I often have the experience that before penetration has occurred the woman will try to go down on me. Now what is going on here I don't think I'm supposed to to come So is there like some amount of time. That's the appropriate amount of time to let them do that. Are they doing that to like help me get hard like what is going on there like when I go down on a woman. There's like at least.
[22:34] Mike: Well.
[22:39] Keith: Some possibility that but yeah like I'm I'm down there to like help them reach orgasm if possible some can't some won't some can't sometimes um, but that's that's always a possibility but when a woman is going down on me, you know as sort of the.
[22:51] Mike: Yeah.
[22:56] Keith: Opening Pawn move of a sexual encounter I Don't think I'm meant to yeah I don't think I'm supposed to come.
[23:06] Mike: Um I think in general that's correct although it wouldn't I mean it depends on what else has happened beforehand like in other words, it depends on where you are in the encounter so supposed to is like kind of a loaded term. But I mean I think that in many cases it would be acceptable for you to do so um. But I think that generally um, the the thing that's going on number one is that women ah enjoy what they what you would term foreplay so they know that their experience is heightened dramatically by having various other things happen. So so in some ways you could. You could view it as like um and I could see myself saying this. You know you know it's so annoying when I go to have sex with a woman. She always wants to spend so amount of time kissing my mouth first and that's just irritating like why don't we just immediately fuck which actually I sort of feel that way. Um, but ah because I've got some problems.
[24:00] Keith: Um, yeah.
[24:03] Mike: But ah, the there you can see it kind of obviously and I think it's more obvious to you because it's you viewed as more of like a reciprocal activity right? She's getting something out of it because you're kissing. Okay, so the the blowjob you're here. Okay.
[24:10] Keith: Bright. Yeah, you're both kissing.
[24:15] Mike: So then we so so the first thing is just like this general thing of like there's a cadence and like the act is supposed to last more than like 5 minutes You know you're supposed to like do this and that and the other thing and sort of explore and enjoy each other so that's 1 thing and and and also like the woman women know their own life experience more than men's and so you know they know that for them. Having 4 play activities makes the arousal go up and in fact, fact, it does for them as well. But they would they would assume that you enjoy the same thing you like it to take more time not less The second thing is that and this is the part that you don't like is that they actively enjoy the ah role play involved in going down on you.
[24:53] Keith: Okay, well and so and so yeah, but do they want me to come or not and I think the answer is often not um.
[24:53] Mike: And that has yeah.
[25:04] Mike: I Don't think they care that much I don't think that that's not that important I mean they might because they don't because in most cases if the woman is being honest, our most recent interview subject aside um, ah from last episode we um.
[25:22] Mike: Women are getting most of their pleasure from manual or oral stimulation for them and so they don't like the piv side is fine but it's not you know. Doesn't they, they're probably not that wedded to the idea of exactly like they don't care where your come goes like there's like a Dave Schappelle bit about this. They don't they don't care men want them to kind care but they don't um, but regardless, okay, but you so you're're're so you're you're seeing and understanding the notion that there's a roleplay element like they like the idea that they're. Like going down and sucking your dick like they're at they're they're they're taking on that role like they're now inferior or whatever submissive.
[25:57] Keith: Yes, but if they if they if they do it to completion then the end of that chapter of sexual act is over Well they may have been wanting more.
[26:06] Mike: Well, that's fine. What's wrong with that like why do you see that as a problem. No, they don't care like what? what do you mean by more they wanted you they wanted the P I v I mean like like.
[26:17] Keith: Um, yeah, sure or whatever was going to come after this early blowjob.
[26:25] Mike: Okay, so a couple things about that number one I mean okay it it matters what's happened I said this before it matters what happened before the blow like so if the if if the first the absolute first thing that happens like you're kissing. You're on the couch. Whatever and she's like oh you're going to love this and she takes your pants off and like starts sucking your cock and nothing has happened to her vagina is that what you mean.
[26:40] Keith: Yes, sure.
[26:45] Mike: Okay, in that case I think it would be impolite for you to to ejaculate because she hasn't received any stimulation that yes I was assuming it was sort of more contextual like let's say she has had an orgasm through say manual stimulation then I think she would not care. Okay, okay so we're on the same page.
[26:56] Keith: Yeah, sure yeah or or care much much much less. Yeah.
[27:02] Mike: Okay, so your question fundamentally is around like she's still clothed. Basically.
[27:07] Keith: Sure, But no I dot No I don't know I think that most sexual experiences for me, especially like the first ones before I've given them like my thesis on why I'm not crazy about blowjobs is something like you're making out.
[27:22] Mike: Type.
[27:25] Keith: Like maybe you're onto the couch right? and then you go to the bedroom and the clothes come off and like they just yeah, there's like this like obligatory ah we can argue about the word use of the word obligatory but like their first move is almost always to try to put my dick in their mouth and. I think yeah, but you were asking like oh are her clothes still on like have you liked and what no it doesn't matter because like the beginning of almost every single sexual chapter is the the woman is trying to put their cock in your mouth and so I don't know exactly what's happened before that it varies. But in general that is always.
[27:44] Mike: That's right that makes total sense to me like if I was a woman That's what I would do isn't that what you would do I Just want to be clear. Okay, okay so what do you.
[28:03] Keith: Ah, a super early move in the context almost always feels like if I came this would be massively inappropriate.
[28:08] Mike: I don't think so but the if I were a woman I think that's what I did do if you were a woman. There's something else. You would do first like what would you do first? Okay I think it's preferred I think it's the obvious first move.
[28:16] Keith: No I Think that's fine, but okay I think there are I think there are lots of things that I am confused about blowjobs that are just like basically unspoken and. Like because there's just like this culturalization around it and like these patterns that have emerged like other people don't think about it but like I think it's obvious that most men are thinking somewhat dominant maybe even misogynistic thoughts when they're getting blown and that. Feels a little bit weird to me and being confused about that in light of you know various trends in feminism in our outside the bedroom lives like I think it's not wild to be confused about that likewise this sort of like pattern where women will go down on you.
[28:57] Mike: Okay.
[29:04] Keith: And you're supposed to like I guess enjoy it but not too too much There's you know you're like feathering some line and then you're going to like do some other things and then maybe you'll finish by having her go down on you or maybe with piv or maybe in some other way. Yeah, like these things aren't. Immediately obvious to me about like what the order and what the sort of proper Cadence is and I think it's reasonable to be confused about this but most people think I'm crazy when I ask questions around this I think it's.
[29:25] Mike: Okay.
[29:33] Mike: It is a little crazy but the ah but the ah.
[29:37] Keith: I Think it's reasonable and everyone else is like basically unable. Yeah, they're unable to see it it yeah would ah I don't have a great analogy here that can like sort of cement my point but I don't think I'm the crazy one I'm ready.
[29:49] Mike: Okay, okay so let let me say a few things here First of all, ah you're in an early encounter. Maybe even a first sexual encounter with the woman although not necessarily but let's just say it's because it's sort of where you're going. You're saying like this is what happens at the beginning when you don't have a cadence that's been developed between you and the partner.
[30:03] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[30:06] Mike: In such an early encounter. The reality is in spite of what women will grandstand that most of the time it's for the man. The man's going to have more physical pleasure in the situation than the woman. The woman is pretty unlikely to orgasm. So she's so there's so there's there's an element of that hang on hang on. Yeah.
[30:19] Keith: Yeah, but I don't I don't want the answer to this to just be that like women don't like sex right? like that's not assume she likes sex assumes that she's like there because she actually wants to have a satisfying sexual encounter. She's not there because she likes me and wants to go on a second date.
[30:27] Mike: That's not the answer. Ah I am perfect.
[30:36] Keith: She's there because she likes sex.
[30:36] Mike: Will I mean okay, but that's like that's the the problem there is that you're you're you're actually sort of denying female psychology right? I mean like the that that that part of look if you told her there will be no second day you were like like rocky and. Apollo Creed at the end of the the only good the first rocky movie where he says there ain't go and be a rematch like she she wouldn't ah she wouldn't want to have sex with you like if you're like this is it. This is your one chance at at Keith. She'd be like no. So I mean it's sort of important to her psychology to acknowledge that she is interested in in in having a relationship forming you and almost all cases informing relationship with you? Um, but but but but I don't think that it's right that she doesn't like what's happening. That's not right either I mean she you know she can be enjoying it.
[31:15] Keith: Yeah, okay, yes.
[31:28] Mike: I'm just saying that like she's comfortable with the notion that that first or early encounter is going to be physically pleasure speaking mostly about you. Okay there's a couple other things I want to say one is she's not um, going to be comfortable like so there are other things that she could do she could like sit on your face immediately. Okay, she's not going to be comfortable doing that because. Because women are not typically in the sexual setting going to be that forward. There might be some that would but it's going to be less common. Um, and so so so she's looking for an activity that she can do that's primarily about sort of elevating you and you know just just adopting the sort of traditional. She's more submissive your more dominant role.
[31:51] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[32:07] Mike: In addition to that? Um, so there's that these are all sort of intellectual things where she's thinking. Oh well, this is primary. He's you know this is this is this is Keith time you know we're going to make Keith happy here which I think is ah is very much a real thing but in addition to that? Um I think that so ok for the man.
[32:14] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[32:25] Mike: The experience of transitioning from a situation where you sort of bust a move on her on the couch you caused you guys to move to the bedroom and then she let's say um, ah that like she then.
[32:42] Mike: Demands some pleasure or something like that. That's like much less contextually sensical than basically her continuing the process of moving from this situation where maybe you were at a restaurant together. She was dressed up very nicely over to she's sucking your cock like this is a very evocative. Transition that the women the woman 100 % enjoys as well like being able to move from. You know she put her best makeup on she did her hair really nicely to now she's just sucking your cock and she that yeah I mean like I actually.
[33:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
[33:17] Mike: Like I think if I were a woman I would actually enjoy that experience of like trent that transition and it makes a much bigger transition if she's doing that than if she's sort of taking charge in the sex act like it's like she's surrendering and I think like that surrender is very powerful actually and enjoyable.
[33:27] Keith: So okay I I agree that it may well be the case that most women strongly prefer being submissive in the bedroom but it is not weird for me to think that that dichotomy of.
[33:39] Mike: But you.
[33:46] Keith: All this women empowerment stuff and strength and all this stuff and the way that most women appear to appear to enjoy behaving in the bedroom that dichotomy that Paradox is not weird for me to be confused about but almost everybody I talk to about this and thinks I'm you know. Yeah,, there's something wrong with me.
[34:07] Mike: I think it isn't weird particularly in today's context I was I was watching. Ah sadly my great peril on Tiktok I was granted a a given provided a video of Dr Phil and in this Dr Phil episode it was it was this terrible situation where like it was incest and like that.
[34:20] Keith: Ish.
[34:25] Mike: This girl's brother had basically sexually abused her when she was younger. So that's horrible like nobody you know it's awful. But but the way the context was portrayed is sort of what you're doing which is like it's it's like a yeah, it's the white thing I think of is like this sort of weird male gaze thing like basically. The hidden presumption in what you're saying is that like experiencing life in I'll ibra I'll come back to why the doctor phil thing is relevant in a second but experiencing life in this sort of more submissive way that there's something wrong with that or that's not okay or it's it's weird or it's other um and the reason why the Dr Phil thing is relevant is because the the. Wrong overriding presumption was that this experience this girl had and actually like I I actually would be reluctant to to differ with that just because it's so socially messed up to suggest that it's not a horrible thing that she experienced but then when you think about it. It's like you know like. Um, okay, yeah, you your brother shouldn't molest. You yeah, that's horrible but like having sex with a man is not horrible and like I think actually our culturally there is this vibe that it is horrible like having sex with a man is horrible and shameful. And that I think is sort of a male gaze thing and so like that I think you're perpetrating like you're saying oh I oh feminists want to elevate women but then at the very same time. You're taking this extremely like kind of natural female role and saying ah in devaluing it.
[35:46] Keith: I don't know if I'm devaluing it or saying it's weird or other or wrong I'm saying it is at least reasonably inconsistent with the patterns and drives outside of the bedroom that we've witnessed over the last fifty years especially and thinking about this and being you know, sort of confused about like what the way things should be is at least not crazy. it's it's reasonable
[36:16] Mike: What if what if a woman what if a woman came on this podcast and said that she was sick and tired. She just let me hang on I've got to get I've got I'm trying to reverse the roles here. So men are ah women women. She doesn't like the man being on top. She's like look this is just the standard male role of dominance. The man's just fucking me and she just doesn't like that act because it just portrays it. It. It reverses. You know it's it's she she just she feels embarrassed for the guy because he's just this brute this King Kong who's mounting her.
[36:49] Keith: Yeah.
[36:51] Mike: And so she will only have sex in the female superior position because that or she just can't enjoy the male superior position. Yeah, because that is more you know reasonable. It's not like making the guy into this awful brute. That's just pounding away at her lower pelvis like what would you say to her. Okay.
[37:03] Keith: Okay, yes I got it I would say I would say that sounds reasonable right? like I would be yeah I mean yeah like I think that is like sort of consistent with other patterns that we're seeing.
[37:08] Mike: It's fun to it's fun to keep going. What.
[37:21] Keith: And culture like I wouldn't be surprised to hear that and it's the absence of basically any women that prefer that in the bedroom that is confusing to me. Yes, okay, let me let me try to say this another way. Let's say that you knew that women were always dominant.
[37:27] Mike: What really I mean this this sounds like somebody who's like who you you like you have this like acorn of wokeness in the heart.
[37:40] Keith: Women were always submissive in the bedroom. They're just always submissive in the bedroom and they really like being submissive. That's like the maximum way that they like feel fulfilled and ok and now I said ok now in real life. You know, ok life outside the bedroom all women.
[37:43] Mike: Yes, for many women that's true, but go on ya. Yeah.
[37:59] Keith: Want to feel empowered and be you know, allowed to make decisions and to be saying what to do and to be in control I think you would that would not be my intuition given what I understand about them in the bedroom.
[38:13] Mike: So um, one thing I would say and put a feather a feather in our caps here is I think that what people do when that when other people aren't looking is more revealing of what of what the truth is than what they do when other people are looking so when people are worried about.
[38:14] Keith: This is getting dangerous by the way.
[38:31] Mike: Yeah, being judged. You understand what I'm saying and so therefore people's behaviors and attitudes when they're having sex are actually pretty telling. Maybe this is why like Freud was so obsessed with it. Maybe it wasn't maybe it was because he was just a dirty old man. But ah. Yeah, the the things that people do in sex actually tell you a lot about what their core drives are what they court what their core beliefs are. But then when they get into the boardroom of a company or whatever they're going to make up a bunch of of nonsense and so the thing you're saying like to me what what what comes out of that is I say yeah society has it First of all when you say all women that's obviously wrong. There are many.
[39:01] Keith: I Know I know I know.
[39:05] Mike: Like you can you can go back to 1930 and find women who um were like in silent films and were like these basically operating very much feminist in a feminist way and you know you could go back to the eighteen hundreds and find that too so there always have been women that behaved like that. But for for the for say more than 75% of women. I think actually a more passive like a more traditional role actually is more comfortable and and feminism doesn't do them that much good and it comes out in places like the bedroom and I feel sort of bad for them that like society is telling them that this feeling they have deep inside themselves is wrong just like if society well actually frankly when a society tells men that masculinity like it's like boys. Junior high who are acting out in class. You know there's a poll thread about that about you know the the the war on boys and it's kind of the same thing. It's like oh you can't act that way but it it just hurts them. Go ahead.
[39:50] Keith: All right? Mike all right? Yep all right? My turn stop? Okay, you're basically saying that this paradox that I observe that the cultural trends outside of the bedroom and what I've observed inside the bedroom and how they are incongruent and incong. And consistent with each other and are is actually there is no paradox because with the actual paradox is that what women went outside. The bedroom is more similar to what they want inside the bedroom.
[40:18] Mike: Oh yeah, definitely like I think I think more than like I said 75% of women would be happier in a world where they could be like a stay at home mom or like have some kind of chill family situation. Not a hundred percent not a hundred percent go ahead
[40:25] Keith: So okay I got it So be that. Okay, so be that fine. Of course be that as it may that is not the overarching narrative forced on us by pop culture right now and so.
[40:41] Mike: That's right.
[40:45] Keith: That I am a little bit confused about this is sort of natural and I'm you know when I'm with a new sexual partner. It's strange that you know we have to do this hypothetically charade outside the bedroom. Um. And then like once we're in the bedroom we're supposed to like revert back to like you know Caveman Times it's not actually confusing to me I think I understand this and the nuance of like what women.
[41:09] Mike: I Could see that being confusing. Yeah I bet I bet it's confusing for women too. Okay.
[41:20] Keith: Are being told to do by pop culture and like what their actual base desires are versus what they want in the bedroom versus what they're being told they want in the bedroom like I think I understand the nuance around all these issues way better than other people I think about it a lot. We talk about it a lot and it is confused. Let me finish. Let me finish and I think.
[41:31] Mike: Well, but have you have you considered that.
[41:39] Keith: Like yeah like I think I am actually particularly enlightened on on this issue and I think my confusion about it and people's sort of gaslighting me into me being the weird one when a woman immediately like wants to gag on my dick when you know we've just met I Just think. I Don't think I'm the crazy one here I think most people just don't think about it this much and just do what they want in the bedroom. What feels right? What you know is sort of culturally negotiated. And yeah, I'm just it's it's sort of bums me out that I can't have like good open conversations about this and sort of express.
[42:09] Mike: I agree that.
[42:17] Keith: Yeah, my concerns and various. Yeah yeah, I'm done. Oh thank you.
[42:22] Mike: I think you could I mean first of all I think you are to be applauded for um, for ah, acknowledging that there is some desire there that makes it so that you are participating in like making women's lives not as good if you are rejecting their advances to give you a blow. Because of some sort of look if you just don't physically like the sensations. That's actually totally different. But if you're like if there's some some cultural thing. Okay, so so yeah, so I mean I think that's you're to be applauded there and I think it's too bad if you can't have no you are because your're your.
[42:40] Keith: No I I'm I'm I'm I'm normal I Physically love the sensation.
[42:55] Mike: Acknowledging you're you're basically overriding this weird cultural narrative that's been foisted upon you and I think it is a weird cultural narrative that's been foisted upon you. Um, it's unfortunate and probably true that you can't that it would be challenging for men with many younger women to have a conversation about this dichotomy without them getting upset. Because they would not want to be cast in the role of more submissive outside the bedroom and that's something they would take great offense at that being said, that being said I think that I still think that more than 75% of them would rather have be in a more traditional role.
[43:25] Keith: Um, yeah.
[43:35] Mike: Not 100% but I think a lot of women would rather have the guy you know fight the dragons and they care for the kids like I think that's just like that's actually what people want and it's not doing people the majority of people not everyone, but it's but a lot of people are done not favors or harmed by that. There's a lot of you know.
[43:41] Keith: Um, yeah.
[43:53] Mike: Psychotropic drugs that people take and so on and so forth and you one wonders whether some of that is around people feeling uncomfortable in the roles. They've been trust in and like I think it's I think the fact that these women want to give you a blow is kind of it's kind of beautiful. It's like they want. They're adopting that kind of and yeah, like if I was a woman I would yeah I'm not.
[44:00] Keith: Um, yeah.
[44:11] Mike: But I it makes sense to me. It's like it's kind of hot. It's like they're they're this? Yeah no, but it's for them too.
[44:14] Keith: It. It seems like a good sign that women want to blow me. It's tricky because no I know I know it's just tricky because yeah I'm doing all this like sort of background processing about it. Ah yeah I wish I didn't and I'm and I'm.
[44:26] Mike: That's too bad I don't yeah I've never felt that you're more socially aware than I am yeah.
[44:30] Keith: I've told you offline and implied it on this on this show. But yeah like I'm endeavoring to be less torn about this in those sexual moments.
[44:38] Mike: Well, you're just you're more influenced and this is helps you in many ways. Also but you're more influenced by what society and culture tell you than I am like I'm more of a Contrarian or like a cynical or something. Yeah, yeah.
[44:48] Keith: Yeah I think that's I think we that's up controversialtro and we both agree on that. Okay, so I teased 3 topics in the intro. Let's see if we can get to them the first one is about um. Prone bone. so this person writes okay so I about had my soul stolen last night need need position advice. So soul stolen is a hyperbolic euphemism that the kids use these days to mean something was very good. All righty. So my partner and I have been together just over a month and he introduced me to a new position last night prone bone and I about lost my soul. So my question is are there other positions similar where he doesn't have to do all the work or something that feels similar that I can do so what? about. A prone bone. What what could have been happening to this woman that she was enjoying it so much. Whoa. 3 let's go.
[45:50] Mike: Yeah I'll give 3 ah quick quick takes here 1 is one is that she um is that she's look I mean I'm just being realistic living in America that she's probably overweight or obese and so like prone bone I think can just be easier to do and there are various positions where the woman has to is you know.
[46:03] Keith: Um.
[46:06] Mike: And many women are not in good physical shape has to hold her legs in some kind of complicated position. So there's that so I think it's more comfortable but 2 other things. Um, no, but if you have a lot of weight in your stomach and breasts and stuff I think yeah.
[46:11] Keith: Are hands and knees really that hard I guess potentially Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay yeah.
[46:26] Mike: Ah, second is definitely um, it's going to angle his penis more toward her but let belly button call it like sort of forward and so then it's very likely that that provides more cliteral stimulation or sorry more gop g spot stimulation. So it makes sense to me that women would get something out of that and the third thing is.
[46:38] Keith: Yes, yes, yes.
[46:44] Mike: Many women masturbate by rubbing their crotch against something like a bed post a pillow what are pill pillows the most common and so then she can actually without she could use her hands but even without her hands. She might be able to sort of roll her hips forward and get some stimulation there too. Yeah and so and so she's getting actually like pretty.
[46:54] Keith: Oh underneath herself.
[47:02] Mike: There There are women whose Anatomy is such that she's getting a lot of stimulation and there are definitely women where this is like their favorite position because of that. So yeah I mean that makes and in terms of like her wanting other positions that accomplish the same thing I mean like she could like be on her hands and knees and he could be sort of above her kind of trusting more downward but then she's going to have to use her fingers.
[47:19] Keith: Yeah.
[47:21] Mike: Um, it's tricky I mean like this is a you know I mean like she might like have you know something involving a vibrator on her clit at the same time.
[47:25] Keith: Yeah I think in I think in the various cowgirl positions. The woman can sort of angle her her hips or pelvis in such a way that she can adjust the angle of attack a little bit.
[47:42] Mike: Yeah I think that he um so this would the the and analogous position here would be reverse cowgirl right? because she has to be facing away from him and like I I have to be honest that I don't think that position is one that women um prefer outside of porn I think that position is basically a porn position.
[47:48] Keith: Um.
[47:59] Mike: For 2 reasons one that it's like very um distant the woman sort of distant if she's on top like she's going to yeah and and in my experience ah like because most guys' cocks don't aim kind of down in that way.
[48:03] Keith: Yeah, it's mechanical. There's no yeah, there's no eye contact. It's not very intimate.
[48:15] Mike: The risk of like folding his cock in half is like really material and significant and and and the woman can't see what she's doing at all. So the guy often in real life somehow in porn. They don't do this but in real life I think the guy basically has to hold the base of his cock to make sure that doesn't happen. So that's kind of inconvenient. She's definitely not going to want to slam up and down on it like.
[48:16] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah I'm wincing. Yeah.
[48:28] Keith: Yes.
[48:35] Mike: I Think the odds um I feel like I need another I need another like micro drip micro something micro crack but he's got it like each thrust each each thrust he has like a reasonable chance of getting a nice um, nice bruise on his cock. So yeah.
[48:37] Keith: It's dangerous.
[48:41] Keith: Micro E R. Yeah yeah, this might dovetail well into the exercise conversation. So She she says. Yeah, are there other positions where he doesn't have to do all the work I don't find prone sex or doggiestyle sex particularly athletic. Do you? Yeah yeah, all right? Let me read. Let me read this exercise question question for men. How the heck do y'all maintain literally any position other than dogggie and cowgirl.
[49:06] Mike: No, but I mean I mean we both in pretty good shape. So I don't I mean like.
[49:19] Keith: And be able to walk or anything afterwards. How do y'all do that? Okay, so I'm female and this is going to be weird so stay with me. How do you guys? do any position other than dog your cowgirl and hold it I tried to be the guy for a little bit for a little while because I didn't think I could it could possibly be that hard I am in fantastic physical shape I Competitively run I train Constantly. So I figure it would be a walk in the park right? No,. It's not I'd like to see her running times I'd like to be the judge if she competitively runs she goes on my husband was laying on the floor dying of laughter and my abs are on fire. My legs are all wobbly like what the fuck I did it exactly the way he does It is. There's.
[49:52] Mike: What position I just missed that was she like basically simulating missionary.
[49:57] Keith: Ah, let's see here. Yeah I don't think she said I tried to be the guy for a little while because I didn't think it'd be that hard I'm in I'm in good shape. She hasn't said she hasn't said the position yet.
[50:04] Mike: It It isn't that hard. She's doing She's doing it wrong I I think that women's hips like women's hips are shaped differently in such a way I mean you notice this when a woman's using a strap on that she like the way they um I know you don't enjoy pegging porn look I don't really either. But. Ah, so let's say with a lesbian thing then you could then it's going to be more cleanly enjoyable or more broadly watchable. But um, they're the way their hips like their hips are oriented a little bit differently so that could make a difference but I think the main thing I think is going on here is that she doesn't realize that ah the.
[50:24] Keith: Um, this is.
[50:31] Keith: Sure.
[50:40] Mike: My guess is going to be that the man in general in the missionary position has his legs actually against flush against the bed. He's not like up on his tiptoes like a plank and she's probably misunderstanding that. Yeah, if you put your tiptoes up like yeah, it's going to.
[50:48] Keith: Right.
[50:56] Mike: You know I could only last like 20 to 30 minutes in that position.
[50:57] Keith: Right? right? right? Yeah I mean there are various positions that are like difficult like picking someone up and having sex with them is hard sex in the shower can be a little bit awkward. But yeah I think for all of the standard positions I sort of know how to like position myself so that I.
[51:05] Mike: More sure.
[51:15] Keith: Have a minimum amount of weight on myself. Um, no.
[51:17] Mike: Do you know what? the dirty seagull is by the way. So I at my company somebody was using a color you know people give names to colors that are used on in software and they called it dirty seagull and it was just a color of gray and I looked it up and the first result on Google was.
[51:32] Keith: Ah.
[51:37] Mike: And Urban dictionary that says when you're fucking a girl on the beach. You pull your dick out dip it in the sand and stick it back in the girl that's a dirty seagull Anyway, I was surprised that somebody named it that at a now they it was just it's just like a made up thing to like but it's sorry I don't know what what about what you said made me think of the dirty seagull.
[51:44] Keith: Why would someone do that other than to torture his partner.
[51:57] Mike: But I just thought it was funny that somebody named a color at like a like a kind of a woke Silicon Valley company they named a color after this urban dictionary definition I was like how how did that even happen. okay okay I'm going to go with. They knew.
[52:07] Keith: Presumably They didn't know. But yeah, it's a little suspicious. It's a little suspicious I'll I'll admit. Yeah, okay, all right? So she just needs to like.
[52:20] Mike: But but but to be fair like I'm not sure that a woman can like women's pelvis is tilted a different direction. So like this thing that men do where we basically lie down and then we it's sort of like isn't there a yoga position there. What is it like a upward something. There's downward dog an upward.
[52:21] Keith: Figure out how to Comma Sutra herself in ways that.
[52:40] Keith: It's upward facing dog and Chaturraga. Ah, yeah.
[52:40] Mike: Mongoose or something What is it? Well, What's the thing where you were like your your your legs are plush with the ground but you're on your arms right? like your elbows are straighty. Yeah,, that's basically the position. The guy's in most of the time I think something like that or he could even be Well yeah, let's just say I think the position she's talking about. And then he's thrusting with his with his glutes I Guess I don't see why that would be hard knees and lower legs and feet. Yeah so I don't see I mean I think that oh but yeah, there'd have to be an anatomical difference for that to be harder for women and.
[52:59] Keith: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, his knees and his arms are supporting himself legs. Yeah right.
[53:14] Keith: Yeah.
[53:16] Mike: Certainly in like the doggy style position. The guy just on his knees etc. Yeah.
[53:19] Keith: I Think it might be I mean there's a couple ways that women can be on top. They can be on top in such way that their knees are touching down or they can have it so that they're sort of on their feet and squatting the squatting one I can imagine being a little bit tiresome.
[53:33] Mike: Oh yeah, that's yeah, that's tiring type.
[53:38] Keith: Yeah, but for example, if this woman was doing the squatting one and she didn't know about the knees one that could fully explain why she thinks sex is so athletic.
[53:47] Mike: Right? And for completeness here I Also want to point out that ah my commenter be from from a few episodes back on ah girls giving hand jobs. The reason why women appear to have such weak forearms for hand jobs mostly is because they're giving it to you. They're not in the same position you are in when you're giving it to yourself and if you have a woman sit behind you and give you a hand job. It's actually much easier for Them. There's a natural sort of like stroking motion that a woman is perfectly capable of doing for a long periods of time but like try doing it to someone else I have not done this or like a you know a broom handle try like giving it a hand job and you'll See. It's a little bit different. Yeah, it's just not like.
[54:05] Keith: Huh.
[54:13] Keith: Yeah, yeah, going out like that. Okay, yeah, can imagine the lever arm not being properly positioned can change the amount of work.
[54:23] Mike: Oh it's both the like honestly the the the arm is very well designed for masturbating a guy's like yeah the hand like just falls. Naturally there etc. No.
[54:30] Keith: Seems it seems adaptive right? right? Um, all right I think we have time for this free use discussion girlfriend wants to do for you Sundays with me and I don't know if I really want that like the title said my girlfriend is a bit kinky.
[54:37] Mike: Him.
[54:46] Keith: Ah, she's 25 and she said she is fantasized about to be a slave recently and want to try it with me I'm 26 lean toward vanilla and passionate sex with I love you eye contact stuff like that to be honest I don't mind going rough with her if she asks, but this is totally new and different.
[54:51] Mike: Here We go. Now god.
[55:03] Keith: Basically she wants me to use her body to satisfy my needs whenever I want every Sunday could you imagine she'll be naked all day and I can force my dick into any of her holes and come inside any time without asking in foreplay. We use daily contraceptive. She wants me to go rough even verbal harasser and force her to do it if she refuses.
[55:12] Mike: This is starting to sound like Literotica but go on. Yeah.
[55:22] Keith: She said it's just acting I'm literally speechless like this stuff is insane at least for me I was taught that to treat women and their bodies with utter respect. Never harm them by any means she said I have her consent and she really wants me to do it I Love her so much and want to satisfy her but I don't know what boundaries to set what things I should prepare for this so that she will not be heard both physically and mentally so that we can be happy Together. You guys give me some advice and ideas.
[55:42] Mike: Well I mean I would yeah like no fire I would suggest no fire is a boundary. No like ah cigarettes burns. Ah.
[55:49] Keith: I dated someone a while back who claimed that she was in to like fire play it was. It was the first time she got to my apartment I had a blow torch and she mentioned that she was into that and then i.
[56:07] Mike: Wait your blow tor was for cooking right? So it's gonna be the most disappointing reason what possible. Ah.
[56:08] Keith: Yeah, it's cooking I don't think fireplay is a thing but anyway I brought it up with her like much later and she denied that she had ever said that I think she was like trying to impress me on this first date or something anyway.
[56:20] Mike: Okay, okay.
[56:24] Keith: I Don't think this man I think this woman is saying this because he's too passive submissive and she's just like what can I do to like make it so that he he tries to have sex with me more so it's she's saying this thing that she doesn't actually want.
[56:32] Mike: Oh that's it.
[56:40] Keith: But she thinks she wants because this guy is so Beta Generally that's what I think is going on here.
[56:42] Mike: Do you you? So are you basically taking the position that a woman could never want this.
[56:47] Keith: I Think if there's some normal amount of sex happening I think could never as strong I think it would be unusual. Yes.
[56:59] Mike: Yeah, strong very low probability. Okay I think that's I think I agree with that that it's not that that in that um I think that he could adopt a set of behaviors that within I think Okay, if you swapped me into his body and I was doing I was doing it I was you know? yeah.
[57:17] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[57:17] Mike: I was doing it on purpose right? It was adversarial I think that within 3 hours no one hour I think in one hour I could get her to be like I could get her to be like let's not do this anymore and it wouldn't require fire. It wouldn't require any of that it would just be to she just be like wait really like we're doing this again or whatever.
[57:24] Keith: Um, to triumph. Yeah, that's.
[57:32] Keith: Right? right? right.
[57:37] Mike: I do think that um I would I would suggest as a boundary here that she should make anal off limits for like 8 different reasons like surprise anal is just not.
[57:45] Keith: This guy's not going to do that anyway.
[57:51] Mike: Okay, but I Okay, you're just saying He's not going to do any of it. Ah.
[57:53] Keith: He's going to come and he's going to like massage your shoulders and be like yeah I mean he's just he's not. He's not the animal that she thinks she wants him to be.
[58:02] Mike: I would just say hey. Okay, we're doing this free play I'm going to be Dr Nassar and you be 1 of my gymnasts shit would be the end. She'd be like no, she's like but my but my parents are over my parents are over.
[58:14] Keith: That is an awful reference.
[58:20] Mike: Like exactly yeah I mean it's so easy is it's so easy to immediately make that That's the thing though, it's ah it's like when somebody says look just do anything. It's like I think that usually means anal. Um, they don't want you to like.
[58:21] Keith: Oh my word? Yeah okay I hopefully get hopefully that reference goes over most of our listeners heads.
[58:32] Keith: Right? I think it's coat for analia.
[58:39] Mike: They don't want you to dress up as a nazi. They don't want you to do these. You know it's it's there's that you know yeah she I actually agree with your take. She just wants him to be a little more aggressive and actually yeah sort of it's It's ironically like his reaction is the problem. He's like basically telling you what the problem is oh I Just want to have eye contact and.
[58:48] Keith: Assertive.
[58:54] Keith: Yeah, he's like I like telling her I love you and yeah, exactly and have eye contact like it's the the ah plaintiff has hung himself here for the defendant.
[58:57] Mike: Right.
[59:01] Mike: Like right and he's yes, he's not scratching this the submissive itch that that that feeling that I can feel in my body when I think of the woman wanting to give you the blow I get it like she wants to she wants to be like ah you know his she wants to be owned. She wants to be owned by him.
[59:14] Keith: Um, right.
[59:18] Keith: yeah yeah yeah I just don't think that I think this is just going to hurt her feelings more like she'll be all excited for Sunday and then like two Sundays will go by and he won't do anything and and's kind of.
[59:21] Mike: That she wants that submission I get it? yeah.
[59:32] Mike: Yeah, he could play it exactly right? The right? What? So What do you think? Briefly What do you think he should do to play it exactly right? like let's say he says yes I'll do this. What should he do.
[59:44] Keith: Ah, yeah I mean he just needs to like aggressively initiate sex with her and aggressive. Yeah, yeah.
[59:52] Mike: Yes, yeah, like ah passionately but more than passionately like like ah on the floor or something and just like fucker. Yeah, and that's what she wants? Do you think? do you think that she wants. Um this is going to be a little bit.
[59:56] Keith: Yeah, right, right? Yeah yeah, just Sunday morning would be a good time and then.
[01:00:10] Mike: I'm asking this a little for my own benefit. Okay so he aggressively initiates they're on the like hardwood floor he foxer he comes Insider What should he do next. She just get out should he just get up and leave.
[01:00:15] Keith: Um, yeah, well that's the implication of the free use fantasy stuff. But that's not what she wants she wants. She wants probably the normal amount of after care. Yeah I'm not sure about that part I'm.
[01:00:23] Mike: Um, what does she want the normal amount. So but this guy gives a lot. Yeah.
[01:00:34] Keith: I'm not sure if she's generally sort of disgusted with his intimacy needs or if it's just that He's not initiating sex enough I'm not sure.
[01:00:41] Mike: Okay, okay, so you could sort of caress her and watch Tiktok or something or do what I do and just run away.
[01:00:48] Keith: Yeah I think she would react badly to the running away. But I mean I'm reading the tea leaves of 2 3 poorly written paragraphs here all right time to wrap it up that'll do it for another episode of your mileage may vary you canmail us at y m mv poded gmail.com
[01:00:55] Mike: That's most do most do. Yeah, yeah.
[01:01:08] Keith: And if you send us feedback there we will send you $10 for your insights. Just let us know how you'd like to be paid in the feedback email so Paypal or cash app or venmo or whatever. That's also the place to ask us questions which have a pretty good chance of being answered on air unless you tell us you'd like us to keep it private. But thank you for your time and we look forward to catching you next time on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 116: Male Gaze Blowjobs, Free Use Dominance, Condom Cocktail Conversation, Prone Bone

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