Your Mileage May Vary: OnlyFans Pimping, Waiting For Sex, What Is An Orgasm?, Keith Proves Astrology False

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we'll be talking about remaining attracted to your partner after their weight loss. Whether a boyfriend has rights to his partner's only fans revenue how long a man will wait for sex and more. And Keith my co-host is Mike hello mike I have an idea for maybe next episode I've been frustrated by a perception I'm developing that the quality of people on dating apps is dropping for me.
[00:19] Mike: Um, Hello keith.
[00:37] Keith: And I'm not sure if it's because my well I'm not sure if it's because my internal score. You know they most of these apps ah have an internal attractiveness score for the people. So I'm not sure if it's showing me people who are less compelling because they think that I am less compelling.
[00:40] Mike: For you? um.
[00:57] Keith: Or if I'm just imagining it. But in any case I thought it might be interesting for me to screen share and then we can go through you know the first 10 women it shows me and I can explain why I think none of them are eligible bachelorettes.
[01:09] Mike: So It's so when you say that you think your score has gone down or or you're just complaining Generally what you mean is that the photos are less compelling. Ah, just if you had to rank them on like a 1 to 10 of how attractive the women are or something else like are you reading the profiles like what.
[01:24] Keith: Um, ah I don't think yeah I don't think I mean I think Attractiveness Score is purely based on Swipe ratios and so it's photos and profile composition.
[01:36] Mike: Yeah, but yeah I understand that but you're saying Okay so you're saying the photos and profile composition of the women that you're looking at are somewhat less quality than of what what you? what? you? what you experience say a year ago. Okay, um, does this have any relationship to I think you? um.
[01:46] Keith: Um I suspect.
[01:53] Mike: I think you mentioned that you have gone on dates or a date with somebody that you thought was a a. What do you call that a young earth creationist somebody who believes the earth was is only 5000 years old
[02:01] Keith: I Don't know what a young Earth creationist is. Oh Yeah I did yeah.
[02:11] Mike: Um, is that is that related in terms of like basically you viewing some of the people as not being um, not having views or kind of scientific understandings that are up to your level or is that totally unrelated as a part of your complaint.
[02:26] Keith: Um I don't know I think that I mean look the sample sizes here are not large enough to make generalization so most of what I'm talking about here is just a perception. I Think that person. Yeah I mean I Wonder if in times past I would have gone on a date with that person because there would have been other people who were more eligible who are available. But.
[02:43] Mike: Ah.
[02:51] Mike: So you were able to tell from the chat in the app that this person had some views or knowledge gaps that were problematic for you from a dating context.
[03:00] Keith: Yes I don't think I knew to this I don't think I knew to that length. But.
[03:06] Mike: Um I think actually I was I was talking to somebody about this yesterday. The specific topic and how do you manage that in a dating context if if somebody reveals a piece of information that you view it doesn't have to be this specific 1 but just a piece of information or a belief they have that you view as kind of. Not you know? that's not something that like reasonable people could disagree about but something where you just go look this is preposterous like how do you deal with that.
[03:31] Keith: I I deal with it extremely poorly I think I am less tolerant of views like this I mean we've talked about this offline if I find out that somebody is strongly religious. It's almost impossible for me to trust anything they say like I feel like if they're wrong about that thing. That is demonstrably false then like I think most people are able to like be like ok well if they believe in astrology or they believe in religion I'll I'll I'll allow them that one thing and I can still trust their opinions on other things. But for me if somebody demonstrates a lack. Of thoughtfulness on something so important as to why we're here or whether traits are determined by what month you were born like it's really hard for me to not extend that to basically everything they think. Like I don't trust their opinions on things Once they've established that their opinion on something pretty important is so poorly formed.
[04:35] Mike: So I can say ah we had a um, a person that was ah providing lessons to our kids. Ah and he stopped doing that as as a job because he wanted to go become a professional astrologer. Um, and I so I have a little bit.
[04:51] Keith: Um, what does that Even mean.
[04:52] Mike: Know So um I want to try to not be too pejorative here about it. But I think it it basically means kind of like an amateur psychologist if I'm being honest about it like so there are people there are people I think mostly women who this person talks to and charges a fee and he will provide them insights and.
[05:00] Keith: Aha.
[05:09] Mike: But I'll ultimately honestly I think it's just like counseling and Therapy. You know what? I mean like it's not.. It's It's sort of guided by this stuff and I think he ultimately I think he just makes more money doing it and so it's something that I could respect that way. But what might the way that I dealt with this situation because there was some element of needing to say Goodbye And. Ah, he had told us what he was going to do was basically just to not bring it up. Um, so it was uncomfortable right? I didn't I didn't want to say hey you know, ah good luck with that or whatever. How do you?? How do you actually? So you're saying you deal with it. Badly how do you actually practically speaking. Do it badly. Do you start arguing with them. Do you tell them. They're stupid you belittle them or do you just ghost them effectively during the day like I'm actually I think this is an interesting question for listeners like what yeah somebody reveals something that is just not something.. It's like a political view or something but something that's just like disqualifying in a very fundamental way where it's like whoa like this is strange.
[05:49] Keith: Yeah.
[05:59] Keith: Um, yeah.
[06:04] Keith: Um, I mean okay, let's take astrology because this comes up on some large number of dates and it's it's frustrating apparently saw I'm a virgo and apparently I demonstrate traits that Virgos often demonstrate.
[06:06] Mike: Um, yeah, okay.
[06:19] Mike: Which are those.
[06:21] Keith: And so I don't know I don't know what I don't know what the traits of Virgos are because I think is strong I don't yeah I think so there's some constellation of a virgin or something. Yeah.
[06:27] Mike: Isn't it a woman I mean it's It's a virgin right? I'm just you know from the Latin Okay, well just virgo sounds like virgin and I think it is a virgin woman. Okay, so you maybe have the traits of a man who's never had sex which sounds possible.
[06:43] Keith: I don't know what the traits are but people frequently guess people frequently guess that I'm a virgo and then yes this happens they I don't are there 12 zodiac signs 13 they wouldn't happen very often.
[06:45] Mike: Strength. Okay, they do they guess without knowing that's interesting. It doesn't matter go on I think that's right I think it's like per month or something. Yeah, okay.
[07:00] Keith: By random chance and it's happened. Yeah I mean and so like I'm often faced with this thing of I'm irritated that they've revealed that they believe in astrology and they've just success and they've just successfully guessed my zodiac sign blinded and so that creates this sort of.
[07:09] Mike: Um, ah well, okay, yeah.
[07:23] Keith: Situation where they think that they've just been justified in their you know worldview and I'm I mean I have like a little spiel about astrology I will give it now like they've done blinded studies where they ask professional astrologers to guess what sign people are there? no.
[07:28] Mike: Um, yeah, that's rough.
[07:33] Mike: Okay, well oh jeez.
[07:41] Keith: They're they're reliably no better than random chance and when astrologists are asked behind closed Doors. You know some will admit that it's completely fake. It is fake. This isn't a subject of debate and it like upsets me how many people try and act like it's the city. Silly little thing. But it makes you wonder doesn't it. No, it doesn't It's fucking fake and hold on I'm not done I'm not Done. What's interesting about astrology is something like what's interesting about magicians when I see like a magic trick where someone guesses my card or makes something disappear or cuts it in half I don't think.
[08:02] Mike: So when you when you give that spiel to somebody I mean setting it okay go on. Okay, let's hear. Yeah, okay.
[08:19] Keith: Oh My God I've just witnessed a miracle I Think how are they tricking my brain into believing this and so it is with Astrology. What's interesting about astrology is that they've successfully gaslit a generation of young women into thinking it's compelling. They've somehow figured out a way to write horoscopes that people care about believe are at least a little bit real. That's interesting I Want to know how they do it like this guy that was teaching your kids. It is now going to this school. Do They do the whole thing under this false pretense that it's real or is it like Magician school where they're like okay now we're going to teach you The tricks of like how to make astrology seem real to idiots like I'm I'm sort of curious about that. Um.
[08:54] Mike: Well, you could find that out by trying to do it I guess but I think and there there is a podcast. Um, there's a podcast. It's like called I want to say like Ross and Carrie or something they go and they um, it's a pretty. it's it's entertaining it gets it repetitive but it's a podcast where they go and they basically join various cults and.
[08:56] Keith: But no, thank you.
[09:13] Mike: Go and do these things to see what happens and I don't think the typical I think that typically the people do believe that it works. It's not in other words, they're not they don't take you into some backroom and say ha haha This is all fake except when you're going to be a magician then of course everybody knows it's fake right? I mean if you're doing card tricks like there's no question. But for these more kind of culty.
[09:26] Keith: Right? right.
[09:31] Mike: Religious pseudore religiousious or quasi-religious things I don't think that happens they just are more ah inclined to be people who would believe in something and they yeah and there's enough there that like it can sustain some kind of a belief. Um, so what? what react? what reaction do you get generally when you give the spiel.
[09:46] Keith: Yeah, the reaction is awful right? Like what am I even trying to do like best case I've made them feel terrible about this like core part of their epistemology and their worldview and more likely they think that I'm just sort of closed minded.
[09:50] Mike: Okay.
[09:58] Mike: Okay, yeah.
[10:05] Keith: That I don't understand I've just ranted at them for however, long it takes me to recite that spiel. Yeah yeah I I have it written down here because I've pasted it people. Yeah yeah, well it comes up.
[10:08] Mike: Took about 3 minutes wasn't that bad. It did look like your your eyes movinging as if you were reading while you were saying it which was interesting. Oh you were reading it? Okay Jesus Christ so you actually pulled up your rant and and read it.
[10:24] Keith: You know in cut online dating conversations too.
[10:27] Mike: When you're wait. Oh wait. But when you're in person. Do you actually say hold on get out your phone and then read the rant to them or do you have it memorized. Okay, you've got that one? Okay, um, and they so there So you you.
[10:30] Keith: No no I get I know I can do that spiel unrehearsed.
[10:40] Mike: I Assume you're willing to do this thing that is a bad move. Let's say if the woman was really really attractive. Would you modify or modulate what you say or would you still do this? yeah.
[10:44] Keith: Well so this is the this is the thing mike okay I would love to write a dating profile where I said like look this is where I went to school. This is what I do with my time you know I'm a. Serious compulsive exerciser I you know read 25 plus books a year you know my iq is this and you know I consume an insane amount of podcasts I read about current events I I think about moral philosophy. And I would love to find a partner who shares these interests? Ok well I do it is yeah I have a I have a very strong curiosity in all matters sex now.
[11:21] Mike: You didn't include jacking off which is a very serious consorted interest of yours. Okay, yeah. Yeah, okay.
[11:35] Keith: I don't have like as a man I don't have the luxury of being able to build these like careful filters selecting for the you know ideal woman like a woman can say that on their profile They can say these insane things on their profile and men will still be interested in them and so for me I'm not sure what I should do when somebody says they believe in astrology.
[11:39] Mike: Right.
[11:54] Keith: I I think I should just chill out recognize that this is a thing that like in my experience way more than half of women believe in some non-zero way and I need to come to grips with that and not let it trigger me because yeah, like ranting about something is unattractive now the counter argument might be something like.
[12:02] Mike: Yes.
[12:10] Mike: Yeah.
[12:14] Keith: Well, this person is not long term compelling to you in any circumstance so you should just move on. But I don't have this line of women beating down my door and so I do well I do compare to the average person for sure. But.
[12:15] Mike: Right.
[12:22] Mike: You kind of do but you have a small line. Okay, it's a yeah. Okay.
[12:31] Keith: Yeah, like I don't go on a date like every single night and you know I would like to maintain some sort of standards of physical attractiveness and so yeah I don't I don't actually know what like the right strategy here is.
[12:41] Mike: Right? Yeah I mean it seems like but I can understand how it's kind of tickling a nerve and makes it very difficult not to ah, kind of go after now to your point about the to your point about the the the profiles getting worse.
[12:50] Keith: Yeah, it upsets me when somebody says they believe in astrology. Oh.
[12:56] Mike: Is this an element that was sort of my original question is this an element of that like are you is it this or do you just think like hey I'm getting women that have slightly smaller boobs in my profiles or or slightly less attractive faces, etc.
[13:08] Keith: Um, I think that the whatever the way that these apps generate attractiveness Score I think is generally fairly accurate and so it's a number of things. It might be slightly smaller boobs might be slightly higher belief in astrology or whatever the things may be.
[13:14] Mike: Okay.
[13:20] Mike: I see okay and you've just noticed and you so you're worried probably that that means that you have started getting more left swipes. Okay, that's a trust. Yeah, we should definitely. Ah yeah.
[13:29] Keith: Um, yeah, maybe but anyway I want to I want to litigate this with you and well we can do this maybe on our next episode I'll figure out a way to screen share from my phone.
[13:39] Mike: Yeah, yeah, because it's going to come down to like how the attract attractiveness of the specific people and in some sort of second opinion on that. Um do you have anything else I had something about porn that I wanted to bring up.
[13:44] Keith: Yes, yes I think it'll be interesting. Oh man I have a bunch of better topics. But why don't you go ahead.
[13:57] Mike: Yeah, so um I was talking with a friend of the show about this that. Ah, um, yeah I mean it basically gets back to this disservice that I think is done to men generally by thinking that women.
[14:15] Mike: Constantly or having orgasms from Pi V without any sort of clitoral stimulation and um, essentially this goes to like the really I mean it's most evident in Vr porn right now because there's so little of it being produced and it.
[14:20] Keith: Ah.
[14:33] Mike: Has all these tropes these standard porn tropes in it where the woman is simulating. It's not realistic and I think that this feeds back into culture that men don't understand what actually is pleasurable and not pleasurable to a woman. Um and whereas I think that mainstream porn has sort of. To pass this a little bit with the more Amateur porn. Um, but generally I like I think that ah I I think that it's It's one of these topics where I feel like I'm way at one edge of the Bell curve in terms of the beliefs. Um I know I am in being suspicious or skeptical of The. Of women having orgasms through PiVSex and I think the reason I'm way at that end of the Bell curve is because of this weird sort of porno. Ah female faking Orgasm complex that's out there and I'm curious. Your does am I elucidating my thoughts well enough for you to have an opinion on that.
[15:27] Keith: Um, you're wondering if women I mean what's what's the concern that there's unfair expectations on men or that there's.
[15:41] Mike: I Think that that that essentially there's it's actually not the concern is that there's this vicious cycle That's take that takes place where essentially um, the mechanics of female pleasure are being taught effectively taught to people because porn amounts to sex education for people. They're being taught to people wrong in a way that.
[15:54] Keith: Yes.
[15:58] Mike: Men like even this person I was talking to um and I was taking my sort of hard position of like I think that it's there are certain situations where a piivv orgasm I think is believable for a woman but I think it's sort of rare and difficult to achieve and in many cases. It's indicative as listeners to show know this my opinion. Many cases indicative either of a woman who's not really entirely sure if she orgasm or or Orgasm is or ah faking um and ah and I just think like this person was like no no, no like I I don't agree and I think that that's like this very broad cultural. Um I think you believe this too like you like like. So Basically I'm. And some ways like attacking you like I think that like there's this like vicious cycle that's happened with porn women and men's psychology where like everybody believes. There's this thing going on and it actually isn't and the thing that I'm talking about is a man in the missionary position DoingPiV sex with a woman. The woman is not touching her clit at all. She's just lying there.
[16:48] Keith: Yeah.
[16:50] Mike: And she reaches an orgasm like that is unusual in my view possibly possibly very unusual.
[16:57] Keith: I Think there might be okay for men. An orgasm is very binary it happens or it doesn't and I think women have something that is directly analogous to that which is.
[17:06] Mike: Yes.
[17:15] Mike: Um, agreed yes.
[17:16] Keith: Ah, Clitoral Orgasm. So usually well for the sake of this conversation. Let's say always happens when the Clitoris receives direct stimulation um either across or along And. Takes a while to build toward and then they have this orgasm and then they to refract although I think a little bit quicker than men and yeah, so women are often like very sensitive after that and need to pause briefly but can reengage into.
[17:42] Mike: Sure.
[17:52] Keith: Most sexual acts shortly after.
[17:52] Mike: And the refractory dichotomy makes sense to me as well because the man has a prostate Gland that has has spewed out its Fluid. They're like various, there's actually like a physical reason why it would make sense for a man to refract like I mean. And on a very simplistic Scale. You could imagine the prostate. This isn't right, but you could imagine the prostate need you know, sort of refill metaphorically whereas the woman hasn't experienced that so there are like there are anatomical differences. There.
[18:13] Keith: Um, sure.
[18:18] Keith: I have been thinking increasingly of late that there might be a second thing that women have that many mistake for an orgasm and doesn't have a direct analogy to a male experience and this is we talked about this a bit on. Previous recent episodes. But this notion of an internal orgasm where they're riding waves and can have many six seven 8 over the course of a you know 10 or 15 minute sexual encounter and I I want to understand more about that. From a woman who claims to experience both but this internal orgasm thing and the sort of confusion or I don't I don't know what it is women reporting having p I v quote unquote orgasms could be whatever that thing is. And I don't know exactly what it is or if I believe it's a thing or if I think they're just confused or whether it maybe it is some non and now analogous thing and it's hard for me to even conceptualize I'm I'm I'm still forming a full opinion. There.
[19:27] Mike: Yeah, that I think I agree with I agree with that perspective I mean I would of course caution you or point out that there are many men online who claim to achieve a somewhat similar state through anal receptive anal penetration. So so and I would say this I'm skeptical.
[19:40] Keith: Yeah.
[19:45] Mike: I am skeptical of the notion that there is some physiological response in women that just has like no analog in men in this regard. Um, of course there are I mean pregnancy and Birth Childbirth I mean there are things that have no analog. So I'm I'm aware that that's a thing but I think for these sorts of pleasure induced things I think it's somewhat unlikely.
[20:02] Keith: Why don't you Why don't you experiment with pegging yourself.
[20:04] Mike: Because it's just because you'd have desk but go ahead.
[20:11] Mike: That's True. We should flip a coin a loaded coin to determine who would do the experiment because I think that you could You could do such an experiment. Um I I like mostly that what I've what I believe is that there are mental states that are attainable I mean you can even achieve like kind of a euphoric mental state By. Hyperv venilating and then like holding your breath they're they're like teenagers that do this right? and they like sometimes one of them will die because they're like you know making themselves pass out. What do they call it? Okay, yeah, Oh no, I'm not talking about beating off I'm talking about just people who.
[20:34] Keith: Yeah, actors actors too right now haven't there been some famous autoerotic asphyxiation.
[20:46] Mike: Like there's this thing where people like hyperventilate and then and then someone holds their throat clothes or something and they pass out. There's some game that like teenagers will play um and nothing to do with sex. But the point is you get this sort of they do Why Do they do it. It's like why do people use those whippet things or whatever that have nitrous oxide because you get like a euphoric sensation. You're depriving the brain of brought Oxygen or something So I believe.
[20:50] Keith: Oh God yeah.
[21:01] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[21:06] Mike: That there is. There's you know it's is definitely not the case that an orgasm is the only route to euphoria that's obvious so I completely believe that there could be some other state that's available. Um, yeah I mean right? I mean the debate I guess it comes down to just whether it's an orgasm. Um, but yeah, like I think that. Ah. Well yeah I Just think that like there's this misrepresentation that creates this vicious cycle that I find increasingly irritating.
[21:34] Keith: There should be a word for that other thing if it is another thing.
[21:44] Mike: Sure I mean if people are enjoying it. It's just I mean you you know you wind up with the guy who's I just feel bad for the woman who's just got a boyfriend or a husband who just is like pumping in and out of her going. Did you come yet like completely misunderstanding I mean and oh and there's another thing I Want to say which is that and this would be actually an interesting um, kind of a.
[21:55] Keith: Um, right.
[22:01] Mike: Question 1 could ask so good question actually that could be asked to sort of like differentiate I I have to think I think when we have the guest on a couple weeks ago I did ask this one a bit. Um the I strongly suspect that women will have some equivalent of blue balls. Some people will call it blue walls. If they do not have what they're calling a clitoral orgasm somewhere in the session meaning that like yeah and that's because you're not really having an orgasm. So like that would be another way. It's not very nice is that like the woman might be uncomfortable after sex kind of reliably because she's not actually having an orgasm in the same way. A guy would be.
[22:32] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean is there some swath of women out there who have never had a quote unquote real orgasm that are always sort of uncomfortable after zas.
[22:43] Mike: I'm positive that that's true I'm positive of it I'm positive that it's substantially higher than people think it's like the set of women who yeah they attain various euphoric kind of states of pleasure but actually never have the physiological orgasm response during sex and again this comes back to like people misunderstanding. What.
[22:54] Keith: Right? okay.
[23:01] Keith: Right.
[23:01] Mike: What works and what doesn't and how their bodies work. Um, do we I know you had other pattern but like we also talked about talking about this. We discussed discussing ah Reddit wanting to get rid of porn. What was the what was the news on that.
[23:11] Keith: Yeah, well immigrant imager. However, your preferred pronunciation is which is a image hosting service. Maybe the most popular one on the internet I'm not sure got rid of porn this week or last week
[23:26] Mike: Okay, there's still porn on him sure I know there is because I post it to my subreddit and I also consume it I mean don't you consume it regularly. Keith.
[23:31] Keith: And um.
[23:37] Keith: Um, yeah I'm not sure so immigrant is banning porn and purging old anonymous uploads. The service says it'll be removing nudity pornography and sexually explicit content. So I don't know if it's.
[23:47] Mike: Ah, they maybe haven't gotten to the old ones yet.
[23:55] Keith: Coming or if it's already happened or whatever it is and I'm not even sure sure if they announced I'm not sure. But ah I'm guessing. It's either advertising pressure advertiser pressure or pressure from their payment processor.
[23:55] Mike: Um, what? what do you with? what's what's the rationale.
[24:03] Mike: Advertising I guess.
[24:11] Mike: And then you told me that you had read or seen somewhere that there's some discussion of Reddit actually banning and nsfw content.
[24:18] Keith: Yeah, there's some. There's some speculation that Reddit might follow suit. Um.
[24:22] Mike: Um, so what's the deal with that. It's the same like just advertiser pressure.
[24:26] Keith: I suspect that dealing with pornography is a huge hassle for these services. So first of all, there's child porn and dealing with child porn is tricky I know there are some services that like you have a database of.
[24:32] Mike: Okay, yeah, yeah.
[24:45] Keith: A bunch of child pornography images which of course would be like illegal to even look at so they like hash the images so nobody has to even like look at them and then you can hash all the photos that are uploaded to your site and compare them to the hashes of this pornography child pornography database. But I mean that's a lot of work. Um.
[24:59] Mike: Short.
[25:05] Keith: And then you know what do you do when you find 1 do you report it to the police. Do you just not allow the upload. You know what? what you do Um, and so there's there's issues with that and then there's takedown stuff so you know people post like revenge porn of you know their ex-girlfriend that they're mad at and. So I think there's a bunch of issues around it that make people uncomfortable I think advertisers get upset when their ads show up next to explicit images and anyway there's sort of like myriad issues that that come from hosting this kind of content. But I mean there's also. Lots of traffic that comes from hosting this kind of content.
[25:43] Mike: Well I mean my first pass thing to notice is that you do have the only fans cohort of people who want to be paid for porn. But you know so so they in some ways might be aligned with this kind of decision. But I think that's not actually true because. They would ah want to they need an advertising vehicle. They need something that's free that people can consume to then bring them over to their pay site and that's and that's a need and so ultimately I mean between now let's say let's say that Reddit word a band porn or nsfw content between that moment and the moment in the hopefully not too distant future when.
[26:13] Keith: Um.
[26:19] Mike: Ah, large language models and these image models are able to basically generate porn on demand for us so you can just ask for a porn with you know, 2 russian soldiers raping someone or something but you can just ask for whatever you want and so people can have all these crazy things of course nobody would be involved. There's nobody being hurt. Um, ah.
[26:27] Keith: Um, yeah, right.
[26:36] Mike: What What do you think will be the solution between now and that moment when the porn Generators emerge.
[26:40] Keith: I suspect there will be a series of services that mushroom up probably hosted outside of the United States maybe with shady payment processors I don't know I'm not I'm not sure if the issue is advertisers or payment processing or some combination above.
[26:46] Mike: Okay.
[26:58] Mike: Well payment processing is payment processing would be any ah only fans right? I mean they're really the ones taking the money and those guys appear to be I Assume they're domicciled outside the Us I Assume the us is the big problem here.
[26:58] Keith: Or some or some third thing.
[27:03] Keith: Yeah.
[27:12] Keith: I'm not sure only fans itself doesn't have some of the issues that allowing people to upload pictures in the public domain have I mean they could but because their volume of uploaded photos is probably several orders of magnitude lower than Reddit or immigger the. Ah, problem is shaped a little bit differently.
[27:32] Mike: Well, you also have pornhub right? I mean they have to and I believe they're in Canada they have to have although that could be wrong I know I know that when they hire people they hire them from like montreologists because I've seen their job postings before but that ah they you know they're obviously so taking.
[27:40] Keith: Um, okay.
[27:48] Mike: Uploaded content and doing some kind of the thing you describe with the the images.
[27:48] Keith: Yeah I'm sure anytime anything gets uploaded to Pornhub. There's some automatic moderation process and if you're a new user. Maybe there's some manual moderation process I don't I'm not sure.
[27:59] Mike: So maybe you'll just have a company like pornhub launch some Reddit and sfw equivalent and since they have the wherewithal to manage these kinds of processes they will and presumably. It's a profitable business for them. They'll just expand to cover this territory.
[28:11] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure what kind of advertisers these sites could court I'm not sure what pornographic content people who are looking at Pornographic content I'm not sure what kind of. Traffic quality.
[28:31] Mike: Well I mean I know directly from going to Pornhub on my phone. Any listener can do this penis enlargement creams um extends like some drug you take, but it's not a drug. It's like a nonpharmaceutical that supposedly makes sex better. Yes.
[28:39] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, hot singles in your neighborhood right.
[28:46] Mike: Yeah, there's like a series of advertisers and presumably they make money I mean you know they're generating revenue. so okay so yeah this is a thing people can can potentially worry about that. They're and I think it's an interesting thing because at least I would guess more than 50% of men in America consume porn on Reddit or something.
[28:52] Keith: Um, yeah.
[29:05] Keith: I don't know if they explicitly consume it on Reddit but as a as as some Reddit derivative. yeah yeah I mean I think Reddit Reddit is at the backbone of worldwide porn now whether they.
[29:05] Mike: Some really large fraction. So.
[29:13] Mike: That's what I mean use it essentially is a directory. Um, yeah I think that's right and so their decision there I mean I know that some people use Twitter but I mean this trick of this question of how do you find things that match your tastes we often discuss Reddit on this podcast and that's why.
[29:23] Keith: Like trying to be or not.
[29:30] Keith: Yeah, Reddit's not great if I'm being honest.
[29:37] Mike: What what is your complaint Just they don't surface good content. It's overrun by only fans.
[29:40] Keith: Yeah,, there's too many.. There's too many subreddits. There's too much garbage. There's too much repetition. The afote mechanic is not quite what I would want it to be I need to think about it a bit but. I Do spend a lot of time during my masturbation sessions hunting for good content.
[29:57] Mike: Um, yeah.
[30:00] Mike: Yeah, yeah, it seems like there should be something that curates it for you? Yes, oh my subreddit curated Amateur porn which people can check out I did.
[30:05] Keith: Like what Mike.
[30:12] Keith: Hope oh okay, that's that came up really naturally. Um, yeah yeah, all right I tease some things in the in the intro that I suppose we should get to here. Um, this one is.
[30:18] Mike: And I wasn't specifically angling at that. But we should probably move on.
[30:32] Keith: Fairly Well it it was the the reverse of what we normally hear. How do you deal with a drop in attraction after a partner's weight loss. My wife has always been chubby I think she's the most beautiful woman on the planet. Her body was always crazy attractive to me with covered she gained some weight and she.
[30:42] Mike: Are.
[30:49] Keith: Was finally fed up and started losing the weight and the first time I read this and he's that fed up I thought he was talking about she was eating too much anyway, she's never been truly happy with her own body. So I'm happy. She's found comfort in her own body now she's more confident in herself not just her body and that makes me absolutely elated for her. But after she lost her covered weight she lost more.
[30:55] Mike: Right.
[31:08] Keith: And more and now she's officially thin and fit Objectively, She's absolutely stunning I've been doing nothing but supporting her journey and I'm happy how comfortable and happy she is her confidence is Addicting. It's great. But I've been having trouble being attracted to her I've never liked girls with her current body type but she's my wife. She's beautiful, no matter what barf. I've kept my mouth shut and remained positive and supportive. But the only but the other day during sex I couldn't get it up Again. I Miss her soft belly I Miss her Thighs I Miss her hips I Miss How soft and sexy she was I Miss the curves I Miss her round her face I don't ever want to say anything like this to her. Yeah, So it's good. Good call like many women.
[31:38] Mike: Huh.
[31:46] Keith: She struggled with physical embodi and security her whole life I don't want to contribute to that at all. But she's no longer believing my lives when I say I'm tired stress from work etc. I've been struggling performing P I V and I've been mostly just giving her oral I've never had any trouble getting it up before and was high libido. So. It's noticeable. Need to start being honest with her I think but I also think I need to work on my own physical response and attraction to her I Love her. She's the light of my life. An Amazing partner my person as we've aged nothing about her body changes have bothered me or lessened my attraction to her except this it makes me feel horrible. What can I do.
[32:11] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[32:22] Keith: To make sure I communicate about this in a way that minimizes her hurt feelings and make sure I put the blame on myself and what can I do to rewire my brain and enjoy your body as much as she currently is enjoying her body. Yeah yeah.
[32:33] Mike: Put the blame on myself I like that It's a nice turn of phrase. How can I blame myself. Ah, okay, yeah I mean have have you experienced this with a partner.
[32:41] Keith: I don't think so I don't think I've experienced this in either direction I've I've dated somebody for 5 years but she was the same throughout dated I've had a couple 3 year relationships and it's the same there. So I then had to but I mean.
[32:44] Mike: And you right. Yeah.
[32:58] Mike: Do you? Ah do you? Yeah okay go ahead.
[33:00] Keith: Everyone faces this right? like people age and rarely does that do good things to their physical attractiveness.
[33:08] Mike: Sure but this is more this This is more particular than that in the sense that this is a guy who's attracted to I Guess he's what you would call it chubby chaser. Ah are you a chubby chaser.
[33:10] Keith: It is.
[33:15] Keith: Yeah I think so. Um, ah more so than you for sure. They appear to be more second more fertile.
[33:23] Mike: Okay, and so what's the allure. Yeah, Okay, so you so you when he said the thing about the chubby thighs and the rounder face you that turned you on a little bit. It did probably.
[33:39] Keith: Ah I I didn't like much of the language he used here his sort of adoration for his wife was actually a bit of a turnoff. Um.
[33:49] Mike: Um, because you don't like that level of intimacy.
[33:52] Keith: I Do like intimacy but hearing about others intimacy sort of makes me feel weird that or I don't trust it I feel like he's yeah I'm not sure I trust what he's saying although he did seem genuine.
[34:03] Mike: But you could you see your so could you see yourself and let's say you were not talking to other. Let's say you were writing in your diary. Could you see yourself expressing sentiments like this.
[34:10] Keith: Yeah, no because I would feel embarrassed like that this kind of language sort of embarrasses me what does he say but she's why but she's my wife. She's beautiful, no matter what that just feels.
[34:19] Mike: Okay, yeah I don't.
[34:28] Keith: Delusional and not rational like it's great if there's something in your brain that makes you forever and only attracted to just your wife but I don't think that's I think he's not being honest, seems unlikely.
[34:41] Mike: There is no such thing in men's brains I can assure you. That's not that's not the way men are wired and and if to the extent that you were attracted to someone in that way, you really actually are attracted to their personality and things like that. It's not going to be there. Yeah Men. Ah. Yeah I think that's I think that's like the no I Seriously I think that's like the core of the issue is that while a man can I think remain attracted to somebody from like in the sort of friendship capacity or like their their personality like the physical attractiveness really is not um, that's not how that works for men. Ah, so so I think the thing that makes it hard to take is that he's taking something that I think is mostly an emotional attachment and implying that it's physical for men which I don't think is true and so it comes off as sort of fake for me like it doesn't it feels produced. Okay, um I mean I can see this. They'll like this physical.
[35:23] Keith: I agree. Yeah.
[35:30] Mike: I mean the the I mean well I mean the first thing I wondered is whether she has like loose skin or something it's and then that's like unappealing so he didn't say that. Yeah um.
[35:36] Keith: Yeah I had the same thought. But yeah I don't know what he should do I don't know what people should do generally when they become less attracted to their partners.
[35:48] Mike: Ah, yeah I mean I think that's an issue.
[35:50] Keith: I think that I think the canonical advice is you have to spice up the bedroom or some bullshit. It's like I don't know what they do? Yeah maybe they would you know try to change up the routine or you know for men they always say like you know do the dishes and you know make her feel.
[35:55] Mike: What would you? What would? what would you do get a sex swing.
[36:08] Keith: Like you care and you know notice the small stuff I don't I don't know I don't know like ah no sorry that that would be the reverse issue here where the wife is not attracted her to her partner. Yeah I don't know what people should do when their sort of physical attraction fades.
[36:10] Mike: Um, but that's not going to make him get an erection better doing the dishes.
[36:27] Keith: Like how do you fix that therapy stop masturbating so that you're like more horny like what do you do and like that doesn't seem long term sustainable.
[36:31] Mike: I Yeah, it's no, That's not going to help I don't think there's I don't That's not a bad idea. Ah no, It's a far point. I think that I mean honestly I think that this does come up a lot but I think it comes up the opposite Direction. So I think that a I think the way this comes up much more is that the man's wife gains weight or vice versa or the woman's husband gains wave weight and so then you have this pretty per yeah so then you have this pretty.
[36:53] Keith: Yes, yes, yeah, that that is the trajectory most people take is gaining weight not losing it.
[37:03] Mike: Pronounced issue of of ah of somebody who's significantly less attractive and in a way that's well it just there's not that much you can do to sort of to sort of deal with it and I don't Yeah I'm not sure I mean honestly like I think probably she should gain some of the weight back. Like if I'm being totally honest like you should probably just they should talk about it and like maybe she looks unhealthy like some you know some people look healthier with a little more weight on them. So It could be that.
[37:26] Keith: Yeah I mean the first response is this woman talking about going from two hundred and forty seven pounds down to one twenty five and she goes on I thought it was great that he could pick me up and he did not I loved him.
[37:35] Mike: Um, yeah.
[37:43] Keith: And loved having to get cosmetic filler to puff my cheeks up botox to fill in my wrinkles he felt he was seeing someone different than the chubby cutie pie. He married he missed that chick that loved eating cookies and trying new restaurants. It wasn't all that keen on the woman that got up at 6 a m to get in a quick five k before the kids got up and made everyone try hale.
[37:59] Mike: The chubby The the the chubpping her cheeks with the the things that involved medications were kind of odd you know? okay.
[38:05] Keith: Yeah, let's set that aside for a moment but she finishes like it turns out that 145 is a comfortable wait for me to maintain after all I did it for me I am able to be more flexible with treats and snacks but look she's going to have some like cognitive dissonance here. But.
[38:20] Mike: Um, the.
[38:25] Keith: Ah, yeah I think she put on the wait for her partner.
[38:30] Mike: Well I mean I think there is there is this I Ah you and I both have ah like do various dieting things to keep our weights down and so we have a lot of familiarity with this topic I mean you do it I Guess we both do it for exercise you do it for like really serious running stuff and that makes sense and I.
[38:37] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[38:43] Mike: I would say I do it more for like broad health stuff. But like yeah I just generally want to be it also makes it so you can run better. Um, and ah, there's but there's definitely a thing where like once your bmi is below say a what normal vmi is between 18 and 25 and I realize bmi is an extremely crude ah measure that people can complain about. Um.
[38:49] Keith: Um, yeah.
[38:58] Keith: Yes, yeah.
[39:02] Mike: But once your bmi say like 23 you can definitely you know you could go to 20 or nineteen or something but it's like there can be a debate about that and particularly for a woman for a man like you might look actually it's an interesting question I don't know what looks the best on a man but I suspect on a man. The best is like 20 and like there's a number below which you start to look emaciated.
[39:16] Keith: Um, yeah.
[39:21] Mike: And for a woman. It's probably the best is like 23 or something and I've definitely had this kind of conversation with my wife where like she's like not that she I'm getting too thin but it's like yeah like there's a point where I could actually am diminishing there's diminishing returns
[39:32] Keith: Yeah I have this experience with my running because the faster I get the skinnier the women and the same pace are and I am now fast enough that I wish I was a little bit slower at least for people watching during my races.
[39:42] Mike: A.
[39:52] Mike: People What meaning that you're racing with women that you find unattractive because they're too thin is that actually true because the the reason I ask is because the um but I guess this is just preference like if I watch the I could I could masturbate to.
[39:53] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
[40:09] Mike: Like a long distance of like a college age long distance like let's say the five thousand meters where the women are running around the track again and again I could beat off to that I find it pretty attractive and they're obviously going to be. They're much faster than anybody you're running with just because they're division one athletes. They're very fast women. Um.
[40:16] Keith: Yeah ha.
[40:24] Keith: I think you would have to how could you test this? yeah you would have to look at the olympic field versus like a college field and a college field I think would have like 2% higher body fat and then you would have to say whether you like the olympic field or the college field and I bet.
[40:40] Mike: Interesting because the I'll take a note to do that Of course, of course you know when you there's also you get diverse sort of ethnicities and so forth. So it gets hard to like ah know who's attractive and who's not it just depends on your preferences. Ultimately.
[40:41] Keith: Ah, bet you would prefer the college field.
[40:47] Keith: I Know that.
[40:54] Keith: Yeah, everything else being equal. Yeah.
[40:58] Mike: Although to be honest I have to be honest that like I don't when ah if I'm watching the five Thousand meters olympic or college I don't really like the ethnicities fade away. There's like so fit that I find them all attractive I have to say actually like it starts. It starts to like evaporate that stuff I'm just like wow like these are very.
[41:11] Keith: Huh.
[41:16] Mike: Very fit women and like if they're I Just don't care what country they're from so much I think that's typically right.
[41:19] Keith: Um, I Wonder if I wonder if there's some sort of in order to be an elite runner I Wonder if you need to be able to keep some body fat in certain places that's better than.
[41:38] Mike: Oh I see you you think that you think it could be like a bimodal distribution where like the women running a little bit slower than you are hot and the 1 ne's running you're in some sort of like unhappy media. Maybe it's interesting. Yeah.
[41:38] Keith: Non Elite runners I don't know I'm just speculating here could be on cannyval. Yeah unhappy rally? Yeah yeah, all right? Let's move on I don't know what this guy should do about his partner's weight loss. There's.
[41:55] Mike: Tell her to gain weight I think my my suspicion would be that if she got her b I up like 2 points he would be more attract. It's it's it's that that she's like skeletal skeletal. That's my guess because that does happen. That's a thing both men and women can do this where they they really get their weight down and it's a little unnerving and particularly on a woman I could see that and.
[42:12] Keith: Right? Yeah I just I just feel like any conversation with a woman about her body weight and your preferences are is going to go is it's ah very fraught with danger.
[42:14] Mike: Yeah.
[42:27] Mike: It's a minefield for sure. Yeah, yeah.
[42:29] Keith: Yeah, all right? Um, this person says I told my boyfriend I wanted to start in only fans I jokingly told my boyfriend that I wanted to start in only fans to make extra money on the side and he proceeded to say that he needs to take 50% of my profits. Even if he is not participating in all videos.
[42:44] Mike: Hey.
[42:46] Keith: Overall he said he would have to be my manager of my only fans and if not, we can't be together anymore I was joking I have no plans or interest start and only fans. Yeah right? But I thought his response was interesting and he thoughts.
[42:56] Mike: Sounds like a pimp to me I like it I do I like it.
[42:59] Keith: Does a partner have any reasonable right? to only fans revenue from his girlfriend.
[43:08] Mike: Well is he in I it's unclear from this whether he's in the videos or not that matters.
[43:14] Keith: Well, this whole thing is hypothetical but she clarifies even if he is not participating in all videos. So let's let's let's stipulate that he's not in anything.
[43:20] Mike: So if if I were let me just say 1 sentence about if he were in the videos I think the right ratio to use in that case would be something like the scale that's used in porn where I believe that the man gets something like 10% the money the woman does someone can correct if that's wrong. It's.
[43:34] Keith: Yeah, via.
[43:38] Mike: And I think that would be the right ratio. So for $9 on the order of she gets he gets $1 something like that and I think that would be fair like I would saying he should get 50 Fifty s preposterous obviously people are yeah.
[43:47] Keith: Um, what about what about his mental health right? So he might feel uncomfortable with her sharing herself with the world and think some amount of financial compensation can help him get over that.
[44:03] Mike: I mean I don't think that's a very I mean I don't want to be too traditionalist here but that's not a very masculine approach to things that I think I mean even within a in a world of women's lib I think that that's that's rough for the guy to basically be saying and you need to compensate me financially if I were him ah I would definitely. Okay I can see 2 things here. 1 is the guy just saying look I'm not okay with this and I respect that if a guy thinks that if a guy decides he might be okay with it I think that the thing he should angle for 100% is like lots of mff action. He should yeah he should be going for threesomes and like kind of crazy sex stuff.
[44:34] Keith: Um, he should try to turn the situation into his advantage. Yeah I see.
[44:40] Mike: Yeah, well I mean he's like the benefit he like like look you can take all the money but I want like some other girl boobies in my face and like her sucking my cock and stuff like that. Yeah that that then then that seems fair like I'm getting compensated and I don't need any of the money.
[44:51] Keith: Okay, but that's just deferring the compensation or displacing the compensation.
[44:58] Mike: That's right? but I mean it's It's ah I Okay so I Okay so your question basically boils down to like should a guy have any say or be able to complain or ask for anything when a woman is his girlfriend wants to do our wife wants to do only fans is that what you're asking.
[45:11] Keith: yeah yeah I mean how would you feel that you're 24 you're dating a 22 year old and she's like I want to start an only fans.
[45:20] Mike: I would directly go for the threesome mangle I would it wouldn't bother me at all and I'd be like let's give me some now now that but let me say 1 other thing definitely I would never like it would exclude her from like marriage material or whatever. Yeah I mean you can't like I wouldn't yeah it.
[45:36] Keith: Um, what if she was really entrepreneurial and was making I see.
[45:40] Mike: Yeah, doesn't matter. Yeah, no I think that's like this is one and this is a thing that I've seen in my sad addiction to ticktok which is I only use it maybe 20 minutes a day tops. But ah, but it's still an addiction. Ah. This is a thing I've seen videos about repeatedly which is women talking about how when they do porn or only fans or whatever that it basically follows them their whole life and it's true or so ah, you know they only have like five or ten years of data on this I mean these things haven't been around that long but I mean so far it's followed them their whole lives.
[46:06] Keith: Right.
[46:12] Mike: And I think this is right? There is a social norm there where ah, everybody's going to know everybody's going to know and this is said often in these tiktoks that you've done porn. They're all going to see it and I think that then yeah, like I don't think I would be that happy. To go I mean I'd have to think about the notion of like going to my kids' school with our kids with my wife and then everybody's seen her fucking I'd have to think about that I'm not like maybe I'd be okay with it it but depend on but I think where we are right now in society that that's an aggressive choice like 30 years from now. Maybe every woman will have done that.
[46:32] Keith: Right.
[46:41] Keith: Right.
[46:43] Mike: And then it will just be normal, but right now I think that's a thing that you'd have to realize you're going to have to contend with.
[46:47] Keith: Yeah I think I don't mind philosophically if a partner is doing only fans but there could be some pretty annoying negative consequences down the line.
[47:01] Mike: Yeah, there's like some social shame that you're that it's going to rub off on you as her partner and and and the thing and then you could ask like that that sort of social shame might have a um what I want to say.
[47:03] Keith: Um, right.
[47:15] Mike: But might have a a rational basis I haven't given this much thought it's like why does society even shame people for this. Um I'd have to guy could on the fly come up with reason so the so the point is there might actually be a rational reason but even just the fact that you'd have to endure social shame is enough for a person to give it some thought whether it's whether or not this social shame is rational or not.
[47:29] Keith: Right? Yeah yeah.
[47:34] Mike: Doesn't necessarily matter. So the guy is enduring something or but but if I was if I were date like if you're twenty four dating a 22 year old and she's doing this. You're just dating. Yeah I mean actually be kind of cool. It's like oh yeah, then I dated the scroll that and only fans have brought in this much money like that would I mean eventually it's going to destroy your relationship but you know.
[47:47] Keith: I would be yeah I would be really conceptually interested in dating somebody who wanted to run and only fans and then let me do the content marketing I think it would be really interesting to try different strategies and.
[48:04] Mike: Um, hu so you'd be interested in the business angle you? what you actually would like to be a pimp huh That's kind of cool. Ah yeah I don't think I would be interested in I don't think I'd be interested in being her pimp because then.
[48:07] Keith: I Guess so yeah.
[48:19] Mike: Yeah, have you thought this through I mean I think you'd have to you would be constantly. You'd be constantly. You'd be constantly dealing with the leering men right? I mean this is the thing is you'd be. You'd be encountering it just be annoying I mean just all these guys like beating off here and of course the truth is that many many of the women that you've dated have had guys like beat off to them.
[48:24] Keith: I Know like in the comments responding. Yeah.
[48:37] Keith: Yeah.
[48:39] Mike: While you were dating them or whatever. So it's this is a thing but it's just like it's nice to have that layer of indirection where you don't see it directly? Yeah, so I think there is something that you would want to I think that in all age groups. There's something. There's some amount of compensation. The guy would probably want.
[48:42] Keith: Right? right.
[48:51] Keith: Yeah, well I mean look if I'm explicitly running the business side I think I could make a claim to some percentage I don't know what it would be depends. How successful it is I don't know I'm not sure like.
[49:00] Mike: Um, okay.
[49:06] Mike: Yeah, makes sense.
[49:10] Keith: How much an agent is worth all right? anyway. Um this person wonders are guys usually willing to wait a few weeks or months before having sex in a new relationship. So we've tackled this before but here we go again. I'm someone who takes a while to feel comfortable having sex with a new person with my last x we waited a few months before having sex for the first time but he was a virgin so he was quite patient with it. I'm worried that other men won't be like this but I also don't want to feel forced into having sex when I'm not ready any advice. Ah I wanted to bring this up because I don't think you can do much harm by making a man wait. I mean you could do harm to yourself which is if you really want to have sex and you're like denying yourself sex. You can wait too long and yeah, like every time you don't have sex. You're not having sex and that would be kind of lame but other than that I think men. Are likely to be more interested until they've had sex with you.
[50:10] Mike: Yeah I mean I I was actually thinking about this so I was I had to go I was thinking about a person that I did not have sex with like twenty years ago as as I do sometimes and ah but I almost did and the reason I didn't is because she was dating somebody else and she yeah.
[50:17] Keith: Wow. Okay, oh.
[50:27] Mike: Was you know his penis had gone in her recently and so she ah was not open to having sex with anybody else and then the person that she was dating like turned out to like have a terrible like addiction to a drug and like blah blah blah and they broke up so it was not a very good relationship for her and I was thinking to myself.
[50:41] Keith: Ish aha.
[50:46] Mike: How this this cultural norm where women basically have to decide. Okay, here's here's what I want us to describe women basically have say 2 or 3 dates. A very limited amount of time to decide whether they want to have sex with a guy once they have sex with the guy and you can I think this is this sort of comes from what things you've said to me. My understanding of this once the woman have sex with a guy something changes in her brain where she is now much less critical of the question of whether this guy is a reasonable partner for her like she's she moves from being selective to having selected.
[51:22] Keith: Right.
[51:24] Mike: And therefore like it it it flips the it flips the bit like or like reverses the polarity. So now you have to persuade her that he's not a good guy for her whereas before it was the opposite he had to persuade right? So so she goes over some kind of a mountain like a potential well or something and the problem is.
[51:32] Keith: Made to persuade her that she was right.
[51:42] Mike: That given that women have to make this decision so quickly in Modern Society I think that does them a really big disservice because ah given the way this I think works in their brains. They just wind up making random decisions and repeatedly getting with partners that are just terrible. That they've so they've selected and now they're kind of stuck emotionally with the person because their brain does this trick to them I think this mostly comes from you. What? what are? what are your thoughts on that.
[52:06] Keith: Yeah I mean huh. Yeah I think that is observationally what I notice is it's just well.
[52:20] Keith: It's a little tricky I find that most people are interested in having sex with me and I don't really push that envelope quickly in ah in a dating process but certainly after you've had sex with someone after I've had sex with somebody. They seem.
[52:28] Mike: Okay.
[52:38] Keith: Just way more generally interested. You don't have the sort of texting games and yeah, effectively, if not explicitly.
[52:46] Mike: It's like now you're in a relationship right? and so something's changed in their mentality and so for you're saying for you. You pass their filters you you think that if even if you were in a cultural a situation where the cultural norm was to wait like I think you described maybe in eastern europe this is the cultural norm still to maybe date do 10 dates or something before you have sex. You think that you would get filtered in in those situations. Okay, so you're like ah a good candidate.
[53:07] Keith: Yes, yeah.
[53:15] Mike: Or at least someone they perceive as a good candidate. Although maybe after 10 dates. They'd find something out about you where they wouldn't so maybe you're a bad candidate right? But ah I think you see the the logic here which is that if if we were in a culture that had where women had 10 dates. They would be able to be more rational make better choices.
[53:17] Keith: Maybe give them my astrology rant.
[53:33] Mike: And I agree with you that I don't think there's really a downside for women I actually think that women are making okay I think the reason women do this is because of supply and demand. Ah it is simply the case that if a woman decided so there is a downside if a woman decided to make men wait 10 dates or 15 dates to have sex. The men would just basically go often.
[53:51] Keith: Is that true.
[53:51] Mike: Have sex with someone else. That being said I think that I right? This is the thing I think that I still think like this is what I would tell my daughter is I and I'm sure she would ignore me but I still think that's the right strategy not because I'm approved at all but because I think that the guy that's going to basically abandon the relationship after date 5 because he has to wait till date 15
[54:10] Keith: Right.
[54:11] Mike: Was going to do that anyway and it was going to be much more painful for you because it'll be after you had sex and you will be attached to him whereas if you haven't had sex yet and he abandons you're like okay like you but you don't the woman you're still being selective.
[54:15] Keith: Yes, this is this is exactly why I wanted to bring this up. There may be so first of all the point one I don't think many men would get to like say date 4 and then not be willing to make it to date 8 because you're refusing to have sex with them I think of anything you might be slightly increasing their desire to have sex with you because they're being denied it right? right.
[54:41] Mike: If they're a reasonable partner if they're a reasonable partner. There are men who would be unreasonable partners and that you actually would select them out and I think the the woman could this is the other thing I think is the woman could even be explicit about it and say to the guy hey I don't have sex before date n where n sort of a large number.
[54:58] Keith: Yep.
[55:00] Mike: And there are a bunch of guys who would just churn out I don't think there actually are guys who would say okay I'm going to play the game to the end and then ghost you I'm going to go on 15 dates then goes to you after we've got sex 3 times. Ah because that's just because I just think the vast majority of people just don't have the ability to like the stick toitiveness.
[55:18] Keith: Um, yes I agree right? right.
[55:19] Mike: To do that like they just like they because it would take like three months it would be kind of expensive and they'd be like no and so so so actually I think there isn't much risk of being scammed and yeah, but but women don't do this and your your take on that is what like why.
[55:32] Keith: Um, well I think if of wolf First of all, well some women enjoy sex Mike and so they don't want to wait either.
[55:39] Mike: Not agreed. But I think that they I think ok agreed however, agreed the women to enjoy sex is not I'm not disagreeing there at all I think that it's not just some I think that I think that most women enjoy sex Actually um I think it's I think it's sort of well.
[55:45] Keith: Yeah.
[55:55] Mike: I Think men enjoy it more but I don't think it's by a huge amount I think it's by a moderate amount put it that way. Um, but I think that women ah I think it's supply and demand I think it's that they are. They're afraid that they will they have something in their head that they will basically churn out high quality guys.
[55:56] Keith: Okay.
[56:14] Mike: And they don't want to be rejected. It's fear of rejection because then they'd have to have this conversation where they say well I like to have sex I'll date 15 or I like to wait three months and like they're terrified of the guy being like oh looking kind of sad and then not calling them back and that's so embarrassing or harmful.
[56:22] Keith: Ahead.
[56:32] Mike: Painful for them that they don't they would rather so so you's I'm saying I don't think they're having sex like while women enjoy sex I don't think that's why they're having sex on date three I think they're doing it because of the fear of that rejection. They're not like oh this is going to be the best sex ever. They know that sex on date 15 would be better and in fact is better if they have sex on dates 3 through 15
[56:43] Keith: Yeah.
[56:51] Mike: 15 is going to be the good sex date or whatever the number is.
[56:52] Keith: Yeah I think yeah ok I agree with that somewhat I think also like a woman could easily have a friends with benefits on the side that she just actually sleeps with during these first fifteen dates. It shouldn't be hard for a woman to find someone like that. It's just that I don't they don't Why don't want to sleep with that one. They want to sleep with the guy. The new guy that they have a crush on it's not fungible sex is and fungible for them In other words. Yeah.
[57:11] Mike: Um I don't think that.
[57:17] Mike: Right? And they wouldn't write that that I think that exactly that misunderstands the need that would be filled there right? like but the the need is more that they want to be in a stable relationship with somebody and so getting. Yeah I mean just they would They could just masturbate a bunch too. They'd be fine with that.
[57:31] Keith: Um, right. Also I think we're being a little bit dramatic here by saying 15 dates I think 8 would be plenty to.
[57:35] Mike: Um, yeah.
[57:43] Mike: I Think the question would be and this is an interesting question like this is something it would actually be really interesting for a set of attractive women to test this ah because you could you could just run an experiment. Um, there is some number of dates that is like optimal that will churn out. Ah the dudes that are just players.
[57:50] Keith: Um.
[57:57] Keith: Um, yeah, right.
[58:00] Mike: And it's more than 3 Okay fine. Maybe it's not fifteen I don't know and you might be right? It might just be 8 it probably might also be the time over which the dates happens so making you making the guy wait two months or something but there's some point at which guys are just going to churn out and and move on to the next girl because they'll just be like and that's I basically think that.
[58:08] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[58:20] Mike: Women actually don't want to date guys like that they don't want to have sex with guys like that actually like if you gave them a free choice. Hey do you ever want to have sex with a guy who ghosts you or who or who ah you know is going to not pursue the relationship after you have sex 3 times I think almost in almost all cases. The one would be like no I don't.
[58:37] Keith: Right? I agree.
[58:39] Mike: Then I would rather not have had sex with them in the first place. Oh that's actually that's actually a good way of looking at it if you took men and women let's say men and women who each had 20 sexual encounters and you said to both of them. How many of the sexual encounters would you erase from if you could go back like back to the future and erase them how many would you erase I think the men would erase around 0 and the women race all around 100 % a lot of them. Yeah, the way it's around 100% too dramatic but it would be more than 50% for the women I bet they'd be like yeah they they would go through and be like yeah I would erase a bunch of these.
[59:04] Keith: Um, ah for me, it's definitely 0
[59:12] Keith: Um, ah, that's a good point. We should ask a woman next time we can cajole 1 into coming on into the show. That's a good place to wrap that'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary.
[59:24] Mike: Um.
[59:28] Keith: Ah, you can email us for feedback or for questions at ymmvpod@gmail.com if you send us feedback we will send you ten whole dollars let us know how you want us to pay you paypal or venmo or what's the other one cash app. Um, and if you do ask us a question. Let us know if you don't want us to answer it on air. Otherwise we will assume you do we thank you for your time and we look forward to catch you next week on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 117: OnlyFans Pimping, Waiting For Sex, What Is An Orgasm?, Keith Proves Astrology False

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