Your Mileage May Vary: Double Wrapping, Rhythm Method, Pulling Out, Is Submission Gay? Adieu Lolita

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we're going to talk about the imposition of birth control. What makes something gay dead bedroom and a new marriage and a more I'm Keith my co-host is mike and. Mike the reviews for Oppenheimer are in and it's supposed to be excellent. When is the last time he went to a movie theater. Yeah.
[00:20] Mike: I don't know that I went to a movie theater I'm inclined to say it was when I saw armageddon in like 1999 and famously for myself at least in the scene when they kiss at the end I yelled out slipper the tongue and everybody started laughing. So.
[00:42] Keith: Are you? you sure you're not like remembering that like the yeah what was was it there a Seinfeld episode where George thought he had a great thing to to shout out and the crowd around him actually didn't react the way he wanted.
[00:57] Mike: I know that I know that episode well but no in this case ah it was that movie was not great. No, but I But so I think people were yeah isn't armageddon the wait wait wait. Maybe it wasn't armageddon. It doesn't matter. Yeah, that one.
[01:04] Keith: Armageddon yeah, no shape. It's it is. It's the one with live Tyler and Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck I think maybe yeah.
[01:14] Mike: Yes, that one with the Aerosmith song that they in and so forth. Yeah, that's right, Yeah, that was it. Ah it was that movie was reprehensible because it was ah it yeah was like they had every different category of blue colar employee that was involved or something in like saving the world. It was really tiresome.
[01:31] Keith: Um, ah.
[01:34] Mike: Um, but that's a joke though I've I've seen movies since then but but not many so why don't you talk about Oppenheimer I'm I'm certainly go on.
[01:39] Keith: Well you know Christopher Nolan is 1 of the most bankable directors of our time he directed you know the batman trilogy and you know Dunkirk and inception and tenet and interstellar and you know all these.
[01:47] Mike: And.
[01:58] Keith: Masterpiece of I don't know they're I'm not going to make an argument that his movies are great but he films everything on like seventy Millimeter film I think he refuses to use digital ah video cameras and he tries to make everything with.
[02:11] Mike: That's stupid.
[02:14] Keith: The big screen in mind and he always uses Hans Zimmer for his soundtracks and I'm not sure that oppenheimer does but it probably does and so it's sort of like this grand movie going experience and you know the Adam Bomb is sort of an interesting topic I can imagine this movie being.
[02:32] Mike: Um, just so people know we record the podcast on vinyl actually and then we we we distribute it digitally but we we actually have to digital and analog to digital convert. So we do the same thing. Um.
[02:43] Keith: I Don't know what the argument for recording something on film is he must have an argument about why it's better.
[02:53] Mike: Of course, it's not better. It's just ah affectation like the vinyl thing I mean you can simulate any effect with a computer So um, of course. Yeah.
[02:56] Keith: That would be my guess you would want the pure digital recording and then if you wanted to add some sort of film filter you could, but maybe filter has more dynamic range or film film I don't think so either.
[03:09] Mike: Film does I I don't think so I don't think so um so I ah the the most recent I was going to say my my favorite movie of all time of course used to be the Shawshank redemption. But I yeah it's changed because I saw and I don't know if you've seen this movie but I saw the film adaptation.
[03:17] Keith: Used to be.
[03:26] Mike: Of the musical cats and that that movie is freaking awesome. Ah, it's just I mean it's so great. Like first of all I Just enjoy the cat suits they wear which expose all of their crotches.
[03:27] Keith: I was wondering what the pun Ju light was going to be here but okay, okay.
[03:45] Mike: Ah, they have tales to go all over the place with no anus beneath the tail etc. It's It's really with that movie did how did that movie do was it. It was viewed well by the critics right.
[03:49] Keith: Um, right.
[03:54] Keith: Ah, can't get the the most recent film adaptation of cats. No I think it might have had single digits percent on rotten tomatoes. It was memory is Taylor Swift 1 of the cats.
[04:02] Mike: Even the performance of ah mccavity by no mcavity by ah by Taylor Swift didn't do well oh indeed oh indeed. Yeah you you haven't seen it. Ah no, it's her. It's her. It's great.
[04:13] Keith: Is it actually her or does she just sing I wouldn't mind seeing her in a cat suit right? right? Yeah, that sounds like a fair trade. Um.
[04:19] Mike: Well, it's digitally altered which of course is part of the great allure of the movie anyway I I guess maybe I could see Oppenheimer and you could go see cats.
[04:32] Keith: Was thinking today I don't think I have had sex since March it might be early April but I think it was March so what's that that's four months right? we're we're pushing August here and what is the longest you've gone since say.
[04:35] Mike: To.
[04:43] Mike: Yeah.
[04:51] Mike: Since college. Oh yeah yeah yeah I had a period of time when it was like more than a year and that was because I was in my early 20 s doing like a technology startup really busy and it it was but let me say the most important part was not actually that it was that at that age.
[04:51] Keith: College have you ever gone four months
[05:00] Keith: Work. Yeah.
[05:09] Mike: Um, it requires a very determined effort to ah, get to snag a woman unless you're like in the top 5% of attractiveness which I would say was like so the midpoint or maybe a bit above now I must be above but not not in the top 5% but ah yeah, and.
[05:24] Keith: Sure.
[05:28] Mike: And that's just because like the women have a hold all the cards when you're 22 or 25 or whatever 24 and so yeah I just simply did not you know I could go to a bar or something I wasn't that I didn't want to. It's just that like yeah I would have had to devote a lot of hours to the pursuit.
[05:32] Keith: Um, yeah.
[05:39] Keith: You couldn't. Yeah.
[05:43] Mike: Probably would have to join activities like I would have had to do various nonsense and I just same time and.
[05:46] Keith: Yeah I I think the women I met after college in my early 20 s were now like I mean dating apps didn't really exist yet. There was like I think there was Yahoo personals maybe and there was the craigslist stuff. And then eventually match dot com showed up. But yeah, it was mostly in person I think my first girlfriend after college was a waitress who I courted by going to the same restaurant a zillion times and then eventually getting the stones to ask her out. But.
[06:20] Mike: But that's clever. Yeah, no I didn't yeah well that I don't know like I wasn't I wasn't that interested in you know, courting a waitress I guess I didn't either thing is like at that point you would then.
[06:24] Keith: You were you were too busy working.
[06:33] Keith: Well I think even that was just luck like I don't I I would have preferred like some other but like that was the only thing so I like invested all my time into that thing and it happened to work out but it might not have.
[06:39] Mike: Sure.
[06:46] Mike: Sure Well like you with your recent traveling I mean that certainly makes it impossible to do the needful and when I say the needful I Just mean like be responsive to a woman. It's the same thing I mean even if you're able to secure the woman for some period of time. You're not going to be able to have a relationship with her because you're too busy.
[06:51] Keith: Um, he.
[07:03] Keith: Yeah I think for younger people they can get around that by staying in Hostels or going to clubs neither of which I mean I occasionally stay in Hostels but mostly because I'm craving some sort of social.
[07:04] Mike: Um.
[07:22] Mike: Are you drawing an equivalency here between a series of one night stands in a relationship. So basically the hospitals. No okay.
[07:23] Keith: Outlet not to. No I'm no, no, no no I'm just saying like if you're traveling and you really want to get laid a hostel is probably a reasonable avenue.
[07:38] Mike: That makes sense but but it would be a one night stand sort of necessarily right? Yeah, ah I see not you did go on a date. We discussed it last episode I think um, but you but it did not pan out. Ah so what are your.
[07:40] Keith: Sure sure but I haven't had even that. I Did yep.
[07:55] Mike: But your thoughts on this. You don't it sounds to me like it's beyond. This is that you don't have unusually for you. You don't have like ah ah, somebody that you can just sort of phone up and make this happen or or do you do you have some sort of a lead here.
[08:04] Keith: Well I mean there are definitely a couple people I could phone up I'm not sure.
[08:11] Mike: Anybody is any of them people who've been on the podcast just because then our listeners could go. Oh.
[08:15] Keith: A friend of the pod a friend of the pod did message me yesterday and she said she saw me on tinder and wanted to know if I wanted to. I can't remember what her exact words were let me let me pull it up here.
[09:34] Keith: So this friend of the pod. She said do you have any interest in reconnecting I Keep seeing you on tinder. And feel an itch to scratch So I mean that it is so this sounds like just from that Verbiage. What.
[09:56] Mike: Is this someone you've connected with in the past. Okay, okay so it's a reconnection.
[10:09] Keith: Of is the nature of this reconnection. This person is seeking. Do you think.
[10:13] Mike: It sounds like a booty call to me I'm I'm a little confused about the seeing you on Tinder I mean so ah, my my experience of Tinder is that you kind of don't see the same people again and again is that your experience or do you sometimes repeat? okay.
[10:19] Keith: Um, yeah.
[10:23] Keith: Now Now Tinder will repeat people that you have knowed Yeah I think I think I think likes last two days unless you pay.
[10:30] Mike: Oh interesting, interesting. Ah.
[10:40] Keith: But if you like someone and they don't like you back in two days I think the opportunity for them to like you back goes away and knows I think probably last two weeks or something and then it forgets those as well which is lame so you often see the same folks over and over and over and if you're.
[10:51] Mike: Okay.
[11:00] Keith: Single for a long time. It can get get pretty depressing. Um.
[11:05] Mike: That's interesting. So okay, so she might be so okay so this is this is an honest thing. She might be seeing you a bunch of times. Okay look it could be either. It could be a booty call. It could be something more something deeper than that right? it could be you know hey I want to.
[11:10] Keith: Um, yeah.
[11:17] Mike: Give this a shot or something I don't know what the nature of your previous interactions was but.
[11:19] Keith: Um, yeah, I'm conceptually interested in a booty call but I am not sure Slash probably not interested in something more than that. And I don't really want to worry about sussing that out and so by reaching out I introduce the risk that they're hoping for something more like a traditional dating path right.
[11:53] Mike: Isn't there a way to isn't there something you could say that would indicate your interest is just in that area like you know, suggesting a time in place that could only be a booty. No I'm I'm not actually trying to be rude to her I'm just saying like you could.
[12:06] Keith: Ah, yeah here. Yeah.
[12:09] Mike: Or you could just be very explicit. You could just be honest and say look like I'm I'm not interested in relationship but I would be willing to hook up or hang out or whatever you would say something that you would interpret correctly.
[12:17] Keith: Yeah I mean I think the downside risk of that is something like okay if it is true that I am worried about her feelings then. Being clear about what I'm looking for shouldn't bother me because if she says no to an explicit booty call then fine I just move on and everyone's and no one gets hurt but I do lower I I I do lower my chance of Guaranteed hookup by the.
[12:37] Mike: Right? right.
[12:48] Mike: By being honest, ah and because okay, but that's what okay fine. So so you so you the thing you're struggling with here is this Venn diagram like if if you it okay.
[12:49] Keith: By being honest.
[12:56] Keith: Now I don't think I am I think I thought I was but now that we've gone through this little thought experiment. Yeah I think I'll just be clear and I'll say something like you know I'm not looking for anything serious at the moment but it'd be nice to get a drink sometime.
[13:15] Mike: You think that's clear enough. Well you could say ah I have like you could suggest the drink happen at your place. What is that too forward I mean it's like I haven't like I have a new new bottle of X to.
[13:16] Keith: And I think that's pretty ah well I think that's pretty unambiguous.
[13:26] Keith: I Don't know I mean it's a it's a good point I wouldn't mind I said yeah right, right? right? that might actually even make me feel like I like this person plenty would.
[13:34] Mike: That I want to try with somebody and like would you want to come over it I mean you could you could you could make it the little bit of indirection there.
[13:46] Keith: Be I think my preferred I like ideal engagement was would be we meet for dinner or a couple drinks and then retire to my place.
[13:57] Mike: Ah, do you when you do that? Do you want her to brush her teeth between the dinner and the drinks and the sex I'm just curious is that what? what's your expectation there.
[14:01] Keith: I don't I don't have a huge I mean if somebody had you know a garlic pizza before we met. That's kind of rude but you know if we both go to a bar together like we both have alcohol on our breath like it doesn't.
[14:11] Mike: Yeah.
[14:19] Keith: Um, unless they have Haliotosis or something. It's not really a problem.
[14:20] Mike: So I I want to understand this so it's not that you don't want to make her feel bad by suggesting more explicitly a booty call. It's that you actually want to hang out with her first like you would get more value out of that interaction than just like the okay so you also see a little lonely too. It's not this isn't just like a.
[14:33] Keith: Um, I think so yeah.
[14:40] Mike: Ah, but has sex lack. You're like I'd like to hang out with a woman that's interested in me I think it's reasonable. Yeah, sure.
[14:46] Keith: Yeah I Guess so or I don't know if I'm lonely. You know I have friends and stuff but it's something like part of the ah maximizing. Of my enjoyment of a sexual experience is the sort of flirtatious dance that happens before.
[15:08] Mike: Okay, so yeah, so her her sort of being interested in you and excited about the whatever it's going on that that you get yeah that makes sense I think that's totally reasonable and honestly it's better for her too because then there also is opportunity to know about in various ways like for example, her pictures something might have changed about her physically.
[15:26] Keith: True. Yeah.
[15:26] Mike: So she shows up and you're like oh or something about you might have changed and she's not cool with it and so you have this easier way to kind of suss that out that makes sense. Yeah well I mean I don't see why you wouldn't do that although well, okay, the reason you wouldn't do it is because it might suggest she might she might want more so you should be explicit.
[15:41] Keith: Yeah, but I can preempt that with ah fair word play. Yeah.
[15:49] Mike: Yeah, okay, ah, let's good. Yeah, hopefully you'll resolve this. Ah this issue.
[15:53] Keith: Yeah, and then of course you know there's other people I could call to but those are Pandora's boxes usually that I don't want to reopen.
[16:03] Mike: Because they're people that actually are want more of a relationship.
[16:09] Keith: Yeah, or they'll even even though even if I say that I don't they'll text me incessantly for a month after um.
[16:17] Mike: Right? Because they're not typically in general women are not particularly interested in just like a one night stand like that right right? Okay, well hopefully yeah I have to let us know how that goes we did get I did get a quite a topic a very brief topic from Allie.
[16:22] Keith: Even with a casanova like myself. Yeah.
[16:36] Mike: Ah, frequent guest on the show. Allen wanted us to talk or I think but she wanted our views on the new series coming out the golden bachelor are you familiar with this? Okay, you must have thoughts.
[16:36] Keith: Um, oh yeah, yeah.
[16:46] Keith: Yes, ah, only because no, it's only because she mentioned it to me I actually watched the first episode of the new bachelorette last night. Okay I thought you might be further ahead. What is her name chastity charity.
[16:57] Mike: I've watched every episode. Yeah.
[17:01] Mike: I Don't care. You're right? You're right? It's charity.
[17:03] Keith: Chastity I think it's charity. Ah, and it was not great. They like manufactured some drama with her brother was like pretending to be a bartender and then one of the guys that she made out with was like.
[17:14] Mike: That's right.
[17:22] Keith: Smug about well whatever don' we don't need to recap the stupid bachelorette. Ok the golden bachelor is it the golden bachelor golden bachelorette okay is he it is he exactly 70 Okay.
[17:26] Mike: I don't yeah yeah, that golden bachelor it's it's a 70 year old guy and of course are on the order of he's he's pretty good looking for that age I would note that this goes along with them. Allie's done several things with regard to the podcast that have suggested some sort of interest in older men. So I guess I wasn't totally surprised that she I didn't know she went all the way to the golden era of of I didn't know she was interested in sort of nearly elderly men but there she is.
[18:00] Keith: Um I wonder where you know the attraction for women who like older men goes away like like what's the ceiling there like are there people who who masturbate thinking about um.
[18:11] Mike: Um, I realize yeah.
[18:15] Keith: I don't know Clint Eastwood like I I think he's in his late eighty s east clinttieswood is 93 dude 93
[18:18] Mike: Probably would be imagining him in films. Yeah, yeah, it's probably not the case. Um I remember ah there was a subreddit where um, someone would post these porns I'm sure I've mentioned them on the podcast before which were ah they stopped probably because he Died. Of like a much older man and a much younger woman having sex and it was really gross I mean good for him that he was getting that and I'm ah I'm presuming. He was paying for it. Ah and it was sort of annoying though because they would always have like kind of they'd have titles that you'd be like oh that sounds good and then you click and be like oh no.
[18:42] Keith: Um, yeah, right.
[18:52] Keith: Right? right.
[18:55] Mike: Sort of reset you have to start your masturbation session over because this guy um I think that I think almost always when you get to a certain age. It's it's about money and stability and that sort of thing it's It's a true sort of sugar daddy situation. But okay.
[19:00] Keith: Ah, right.
[19:09] Keith: Um I don't think that's right I don't think that's right Mike I think I mean men are still sexually viable like they can produce children up until they die.
[19:15] Mike: Breath.
[19:21] Mike: Yeah I think there was a I don't know there. There's a Robert de Niro or something just recently had a kid something like that sure that's true. Ah.
[19:28] Keith: Yeah, and so I mean I don't know what is going on in the female brain I mean you would think that a geriatric ah lover would be less compelling but you know.
[19:39] Mike: Agreed is is the golden. Do you know the premise of this show I mean you've talked Allie about I just got a text from her about it is the is the golden bachelor is he dating a woman his age or is it actually a sugar daddy. It would.
[19:49] Keith: Um I don't I don't oh my gosh that would be amazing if they they paraded out a series of ah gen zs for him have to to the fantasy suite but he needs like two weeks in between so he can refract.
[19:57] Mike: It would be. Now I'm telling you that would be it that would actually be a really interesting show that would that would I think that the American public would learn something from that show because it would expose more about what the truth of like certain types of relationships than than something like the bachelor that just a lot of it's just fake.
[20:19] Keith: Would they still pretend to be obsessed with him or would they be more unvarnished and that their real motivation for being on the show is becoming a minor internet celebrity.
[20:21] Mike: Maybe all of it.
[20:30] Mike: Well in this case I would assume if he's golden I'm I'm assuming that's going to be a combination of his age and wealth I've got to think that this is a well-established man so that would make sense right? I mean they're they're pursuing that.
[20:40] Keith: It doesn't even matter though. Mike like if you if you win a show like this I think you're sort of an idiot if you can't turn it into 2 or $3000000
[20:52] Mike: Agreed it says they ah according to distractify.com which is almost certainly one of the one of these have you notice this on a a lot of content sites on the internet now are obviously written by chat gbt. So this is probably one of those I've noticed this like Google news now is just full of these.
[20:59] Keith: Ah.
[21:09] Keith: Who cares? they it writes but it writes better than the twenty year olds they had writing it in the past.
[21:11] Mike: Articles obviously written by I don't agree with that I think it will eventually. But it's very um, stilted and it has a certain ah structure that it uses to write that's kind of I know it very well. So it's boring Anyway, Just yeah yeah.
[21:26] Keith: Okay I agree I agree with with everything you just had go ahead.
[21:31] Mike: distractify.com says that the women are going to be in their sixty s and seventy s so this is not going to be a good show.
[21:35] Keith: Yeah I mean I was thinking about this watching the bachelorette I mean the nice thing about the bachelor is there's a dude and then there's like 30 babes but on the bachelorette you just have the one and like you know, but even but the show with the show is still compelling even though it's men.
[21:45] Mike: Of course I I've noticed that and agreed.
[21:55] Keith: It's they have the formula dialed in so much like the production and the various cliff hangers and all that stuff is really dialed in so I can imagine the Golden bachelor even though the people are not physically compelling I can imagine the show potentially being interesting.
[22:01] Mike: I Have no I wonder if you. Sure I Wonder if you have the same experience with on the bachelor So that one of the things they do constantly of course is they have like these dates all in the same day apparently and they'll go into a room and then they kiss a lot. Okay I know this doesn't bother you because you like to share toothbrushes with people and stuff. But.
[22:19] Keith: Yeah.
[22:25] Mike: It bothers me way more.
[22:25] Keith: You should say what it is it. It is the like sharing mouth fluids with a bunch of different people. Yeah.
[22:33] Mike: Right? And but I will say that that behavior bothers watching that behavior bothers me dramatically more on the bachelorette than it does on the bachelor because it's it's because the men and and and I feel the same way about like the fantasy suite kind of experience.
[22:43] Keith: Um, whoa interesting.
[22:51] Mike: The notion of 3 men having sex with the same woman like day after day versus the opposite is much more bothersome to me and I I just think well what's interesting here's here's the point I wanted and make that I think is interesting. So with the sex part I think it actually makes some sense because you know you have it said of it being 1 penis with three orphices. It's.
[22:54] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[23:12] Mike: Vaginas It's E right? So It makes sense like the semen is all being deposited in the same general area and that's more rathersome with the kissing. It's actually irrational right? Your mouth male and female mouth are identical and so it shows that like this is a this is not a there. It shows that I'm deceiving myself if I think there's like a physical rationale for being bothered by this.. It's just that I don't want it that I perceive it as gay. Yeah.
[23:31] Keith: Um, okay, let me ask you this if if you could ask 100 people and you you administered truth serum to them right? So they're not um, saying what they think the woke thing to say is. But if you asked 100 people would you? you know what triggers more of a discuss or um adverse reaction in yourself. You know seeing a young woman make out with 5 different men or seeing a young man make up with 4 different with 5 different women I think. You wouldn't see an exactly fifty fifty s split I think your intuition here which is that the woman making out with a bunch of different men arouses more of a I don't know what it is discussed isn't quite the right word but it's it's discussed adjacent anyway, um, and so yeah I don't It's not just that the parts are the same There's some other thing going on there.
[24:27] Mike: Well I mean it's certainly home or eotic or something I mean what actually my take on that I don't know obviously but the the thought experiment you did There is that women would view it as basically identical and men would skew and be bothered but much more bothered by The. The multiple men situation in my thesis would just be that yeah men the notion of yeah, there's something different about male male homosexuality versus male female and female Female. They're like a different category.
[24:53] Keith: Yeah, maybe I'm not even sure women wouldn't share the intuition like were there all these studies famously like they you know they interviewed women and like the 30 s and 40 s about whether you know a woman could be president and most women thought that a woman wasn't suitable to be president and they would.
[25:01] Mike: That's for.
[25:12] Keith: Say that the standard generic tropes that men would say just like they're too emotional too hysterical that kind of stuff.
[25:18] Mike: Don't you think women probably still think that.
[25:23] Keith: I was just trying to save ourselves from cancellation by time displacing it. Ah I think if you could administer truth serum some set of people would still say this? yes.
[25:34] Mike: Yeah, it's I mean I don't but if there's an unknown part of its there's an unknown once you have a 1 female president you say okay well that's how this works and and I'm confident. It would be fine I wouldn't make any difference partly because the president doesn't matter. But ah, but yeah I mean. Ah, but I could see people. It's you know it's it's a change is something different and people would be suspicious and skeptical of it. So.
[25:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah, maybe President isn't the right word like what? what's a job or a task that requires like extreme emotional stability online poker. Maybe I think online poker like you you can't get tilted. You can't.
[26:08] Mike: Um, like ah some sort of surgeon but okay sure.
[26:16] Keith: Ah, but maybe I don't know men can get upset easier. Maybe I don't know. Ah.
[26:21] Mike: The problem with things like chess and online poker is that they're I think they're dominated by Iq actually like at the at the top reaches and the thing is that ah the standard deviation of Iq for men is slightly higher so that they're more male geniuses than female, but the averages are identical.
[26:25] Keith: Yeah.
[26:34] Keith: Right? There's also more male dumb asses for the same reason. Yeah, um, all right. We got to get into some of these topics for we run at a time. Um, let's see here. Let's do this? ah.
[26:38] Mike: Of course, if you go all the way to the bottom they're more men as well. Yes.
[26:45] Mike: Yes.
[26:52] Keith: This might be a little bit spicy. Um, it's about birth control and who is imposed upon so all right? Ah, this guy is 19 years old and his girlfriend is 18 He says my girlfriend wants me to wear 2 condoms but is said she will never go on birth control.
[27:08] Mike: Nice.
[27:10] Keith: The other day. My girlfriend and I were talking about sex as we often do and our want to do it and we began talking about protection and anti-baby measures. She said she would not want to be and will not ever be on birth control and that protection will basically be 100 % on me since the only reason she would get pregnant is because of you guessed it me. Didn't care very much at first since I was planning and wearing a condom anyway. So we don't become teenage parents but she then tells me that one isn't going to cut it and that I need to wear 2 or more if I wanted to ever have sex with her which that was harsh and hypocritical I know I would be the reason she would be getting pregnant if I failed to use protection but I'm not the only one who wants to have sex. She arkly wants to do it more than I do. Ah I'm not sure about that I told her I thought she was being harsh and hypocritical and she said she wasn't she's only trying to protect her body and future I said all right if that's what she wants to do then we should just stick with hand stuff and oral until she's ready to discuss it again. Am I wrong and thinking it's unfair that she won't get on any birth control and wants me to be the only one who uses protection. Should just do what she says and not press the idea of getting birth control any further. This isn't a matter that's going to break the relationship over. Maybe you should It's just an annoyance that occurs when we talk about sex. Okay, so um, the specifics here are a little bit boring. Um, for example I don't think 2 condoms offers more protection. It might offer less. Then one.
[28:27] Mike: Right? That's the typical advice I mean it's a funny thing to say but you know can I double rap or whatever. But in fact, like the problem is that ah typically what can happen is a um is ah rubbing between the 2 condoms and that's actually much worse than the rubbing against skin.
[28:38] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, right? So yeah, setting aside the specific nonsense here.
[28:41] Mike: As if you think about it, you're you're you're actually creating a risk.
[28:53] Keith: I Think that taking birth control often. There are non-ormonal birth controls but the vast majority of female Birth controls are um, hormonal and they do change your mood and behavior.
[28:58] Mike: That.
[29:10] Keith: In a way that I think is a little bit hard for men to relate to because we don't have these like monthly hormonal swings. Our mood is fairly constant and so women. Yeah, so like the experience that some women might have which is they don't want to change their. Body's natural hormonal behaviors and I don't know if that's what this girl wants she wasn't making much sense and she didn't this guy didn't write what her reasons for not wanting to go on Birth Control. What was but lots of women don't want to go on birth control because they don't want to you know alter their body's natural State. Do You think that's I think you're going to think that's. Generally irrational or not irrational, but maybe not worth much concern is that right.
[29:54] Mike: Well I mean ah no I think it's worth concern I don't I don't agree with that I mean for example, there's a couple things that are kind of important ones that that often do change one is that hormonal with birth control can change libido and so and so like that's. That that would be very material to both of them. The other thing it changes frequently and there are studies showing this is um, mate selection and so again she might like not stop being attracted to the guy I think she's like thinking more broadly like holistically like I don't want to mess with my body or whatever. Okay, um, but. It's not an irrational thing to be worried about particularly if you've tried in the past I didn't catch whether she'd tried it before but she could have like specific experiences or maybe a family member who did yeah I mean her her reasoning is probably her reasoning is probably kind of simplistic but it's not she's not wrong.
[30:33] Keith: Um, she's 18 So to the extent that she did it was probably limited or not at all.
[30:46] Mike: You know, like the the basic idea here is reasonable.
[30:46] Keith: Well, the specifics here. But yeah, again are sort of not that interesting. But yeah, there's no like men don't have to face this thing because well one it's not possible. But even if it were the notion Of. Unbalancing your monthly cycle is not unbalancing isn't the right words smoothing out or altering just doesn't even make sense.
[31:13] Mike: I Think there are things that I I think there are things that men experience that are analogous. It's not I mean it's not. It's not obviously the same. But I think men experience. Well you can. Yeah you can alter your sort of ah your your chemical balance in such a way that you you experience highs and lows differently.
[31:20] Keith: Um, like an antidepressant or something.
[31:30] Mike: But and you but just simple things like what you eat how you actually whether you exercise like there are different different things that you couldn't use and I think so as a man I think you can have some intuition about this I mean 1 thing that like I don't exactly know what a woman it's I mean there is like kind of a unresolvable problem here in that.
[31:32] Keith: No sure. That's true.
[31:48] Mike: If a woman makes this choice. She's either gonna be like swallowing a lot of come a lot right? and they're 18 anal like it's like what I'm not sure exactly I guess condoms like maybe yeah, she could just say let's use condoms. Although yeah.
[31:51] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, or.
[31:59] Keith: Mike the thing that everyone does 9 out of 10 is they just rhythm method I mean I think lots of people like having sex without condoms and if she doesn't want to go on birth control it often becomes a.
[32:06] Mike: Go on.
[32:18] Keith: Sort of Rhythm method I think that's probably the plurality of outcomes anyway.
[32:22] Mike: And you're saying this based on personal experience or I'm not actually teasing you like like reading about it like how what makes you think that that's that common just all the the unplanned pregnancy right.
[32:31] Keith: It's certainly been my. It's definitely. It's definitely been my personal experience I've dated a zillion women who don't like condoms.
[32:39] Mike: They don't like condoms. They don't want to go in birth control and they just say oh let's just you know it's okay, you can ejaculate inside me these days.
[32:47] Keith: No, they ah I have had 2 or 3 I have had I have had yeah I've had 2 or 3 I thought rhythm method was withdrawal. It was.
[32:49] Mike: With method or withdrawal is a different.
[32:58] Mike: No, not at all with withdrawal is is actually very effective. Um, they they like to scare you about it. Of course if you just beat off and you have a bunch of sperm in your eurethra then it's not going to work and I say just beat off I mean just beat off like if you just go to the bathroom and pee. It's very unlikely. You'll have any. Remaining? Um, so yeah, it's very effective because in fact, ah, ah, the people people claim that the pre-ejaculate fluid contains sperm. It does not actually it's like it's like 1 of these things that like people people say in order to decrease. Unplanned pregnancies which I understand their heart's in the right place I guess but it's not true. Um rhythm method. Is you try to identify. Yeah and that doesn't work to paying attention to ovulation. It doesn't work very well because it's difficult to pinpoint ovulation unless you're really really careful.
[33:40] Keith: Paying attention to your cycle.
[33:50] Mike: And sperm can live for a while and so the failure rate's very high short.
[33:51] Keith: Is it true but wait hold on can we can we examine both of those is it true that it's hard to pay attention to like can't you get an app I know there are apps that track your cycle and tell you when you're ovulating and let's say. It's off a little bit but is it off by more than 2 days like couldn't you just buffer it by you know plus or minus two days and
[34:11] Mike: Sure you'd have to buffer it plus pleasant if you assume the sperm can survive or say three days and you buffer it by two days now you've done 10 days right? Oh no, that's not fair. That's the sperm can't go back in the sperm. Can't go back in time. So this I actually.
[34:20] Keith: I Said right? it it? Okay, so all right? So then Okay, then thing to that I wanted go ahead.
[34:30] Mike: Misspoke it would be say three days before exactly so but it would still be kind of like you'd be talking like most of the month and if you exclude the period the her period you're you're talking about most of the time. Um.
[34:32] Keith: It's just plus 3 on the other side. Yeah.
[34:42] Keith: No, it's not no, it's not you ovulate for like what four days I thought this varies as well. But but it's like to to 2 to five days right something like that and then plus 3 ah plus 3 on the front side. So now we're at 8
[34:47] Mike: Um, and then you have to write add in? Yeah, ah.
[34:58] Mike: Sure. Okay, wait wait. What did you include? Well yeah.
[34:59] Keith: I mean 8 out of Twenty eight days isn't that bad I mean and and and then period sex is period sex is just orthogonal if you don't like period sex. You're not going to be having period sex regardless of anything. So.
[35:12] Mike: Okay, so you could take that out in advance. Sure that's true I don't I think that ah the failure rate is enormous. People are very bad at at doing the rhythm method. So.
[35:18] Keith: Well yes I think to do the rhythm method you would have to download one of these apps and be assiduous about tracking and then.
[35:28] Mike: It's worth I mean it's worth pointing out that like women do have ovulations at unexpected times sometimes too so that it it's not perfect. No matter what you do or.
[35:32] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, okay this is news to me I always thought the rhythm method was yeah you like time your your pumping so that you withdraw an orgasm outside of their body I Thought that's what like the rhythm people were talking about was.
[35:49] Mike: I Like your description of timing timing your pumping. That's that's kind of hot. We've discussed this before.
[35:51] Keith: I didn't know he was yeah well I thought and that was a rhythm you know is the cadence of the of the pumping.
[36:00] Mike: You and if I recall correctly the thing that you like to do is you if you're doing this seldom because you're very careful of course in your sexual behaviors. But if you were to do this you you would pull out and ejaculate sort of in her pubic air like area or on her stomach or something.
[36:08] Keith: Yes, course.
[36:15] Keith: Yeah, yeah, because I'm not yeah I think most people would probably use oral right? That's the standard.
[36:22] Mike: No I think most people probably do what you do. But I think I would encourage you I think it's more dominating to to scoot up and put it in her mouth. You should do that instead and she probably like it.
[36:33] Keith: I I agree that you think that? Yeah, that's.
[36:38] Mike: Well then it's cool because you're not having to and experience the blowjob that part bothers you but you're getting to give her the special delivery.
[36:46] Keith: Who loses that trade. Yeah yeah folks if you're interested in my aversion to blowjobs. You can listen to about 100 of our 125 episode catalog and there's.
[36:49] Mike: And she loves it. The women love it.
[37:02] Mike: Yes, yes.
[37:05] Keith: Plenty of explanation there. All right? should we move on on the next one this person is a 27 year old man and his girlfriend is 24 ah oh no wait. Sorry this is written by the woman I had a man tell me that ah me playing with his butt is gay. Ah so this man and I met on a kink subreddit. And we clicked and are both into some of the same things we're both cisgendered and straight although I've experimented with women once or twice anyway, she says anyways, of course he brought up the topic of but play and anal. He flat out just said to me that he'd like to fuck my asshole and finger it I was into it but we were also being kind of competitive and fighting for who would be.
[37:31] Mike: Honey.
[37:42] Keith: The more dominant dominant 1 in this scenario. So I continued with careful if you don't sorry that I'm I'm trying to fix a grammar on the flyer if you don't get me in a sub mood first I may turn the tables and finger your ass instead. He got awkward and took offense to this I apologize and told him that since he assumed that playing with my hassle is okay.
[37:50] Mike: The.
[38:02] Keith: I Assume playing with his was okay, he told me that even though he he knows the prostate is and orrogenous own for him. He isn't cool with it and that he was raised as a Christian and doesn't do anything gay and thought that I wouldn't want to do anything gay she says I would want to do anything like God This is okay, sorry ah.
[38:03] Mike: Yeah.
[38:22] Keith: She goes on here. Let me see if there's going to be in. Yeah okay I'm going to read what she says just because it's going to provide a contrast against what I think you're going to say she says I told him that one I never want to or meant to cross any Boundaries. He isn't okay with it is weird that she assumed that her giving consent to her butt. Meant that he was giving consent to his but but whatever to that I do not see any body part or sex act as inherently straight gay by Lesbian etc I just aim to do what feels good for both people and enjoy it three I asked him how and why he considers this a gay act when I would be doing it as a Cis straight woman and finally 4 Also asked why he eagerly assumed he could play with my asshole if he wouldn't be okay with it on his end I feel this his Yeah I feel this double standard with a lot of men I think ah, a finger, a finger. Yeah a finger and he seems to be aware.
[39:06] Mike: It's a lot of assholes. What? what's what? what is? what is what is she sticking in there What she sticking in there I Okay okay that makes sense. Ah.
[39:20] Keith: That his prostate is in Aro in his own for himself which calls into question the whole thing about not being gay but I wanted to bring this up because ok, what makes something gay I mean I agree with her read here that lots of men think that like.
[39:26] Mike: Since this.
[39:36] Keith: Having their butt interacted with in any way is quote Unquote gay and I think we both agree not necessarily. But what's the nuance here.
[39:48] Mike: Whether whether something I mean well I mean so using the bathroom and wiping your butt is not gay so we can start there so you can interact you washing your anus is not gay. Although I've heard tell that some men refuse to wash their anuses. So maybe they are afraid of that being gay I've.
[39:54] Keith: Okay, yeah.
[40:02] Keith: What how I say interesting.
[40:07] Mike: Seen in that trope before um you know so but but I mean yeah I like it's I think that the thing I think that the the thing that makes something gay the thing that starts to trigger. This is one of 2 things 1 is. Interacting sexually with another man. Ah this is not that obviously and the second one is the man being penetrated somewhere by something well because men have body part men have the male body part right? So it penetrates things.
[40:32] Keith: What makes that gay.
[40:41] Keith: Yeah.
[40:44] Mike: So then if you are being penetrated then you're imagining you're being penetrated by man like I would imagine like. For example, let's say that you're making out with a girl and she's just really aggressive about putting her tongue in your mouth at some point like it might bother you in that context, you're like she just keeps penetrating me have you ever had that experience.
[41:01] Keith: Someone over Eagerly ah penetrating me with their tongue.
[41:05] Mike: Well I mean or I mean if they use their fingers I bet you would then immediately see what I'm saying.
[41:12] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean there is a trope not a trope but there's a technique where like men will put their fingers in ah in a woman's mouth and it's pretty submissive. It's dominant to the man submissive of the girl and so the reverse would be.
[41:20] Mike: Um, sure.
[41:27] Keith: The reverse. So the the man is being submissive is submissiveness gay. Okay, always.
[41:30] Mike: Yeah, yeah, it is I mean it's that's that like that's well I think that's what it triggers and I mean I'm I'm just saying it from a cultural standpoint before we get like the flood of emails like I'm saying like that's what that's what like leads people to this this line of thinking like I realize there are men who are more and less dominant. Um, but as you move down the submissive and oh and there's importantly, there are gay men who are ultra dominant right? They're gay men who don't want to be penetrated by anything so but but this is but this is what this triggers This is why it's um, frightening to a man or why's some challenging is that is that like guys don't want Guys. Do Guys want to be exit only.
[41:56] Keith: Um, yeah.
[42:10] Mike: And it makes sense biologically like that is sort of our function and so it's it's challenging that it might be good to challenge it I don't know.
[42:12] Keith: But is it. Yeah yeah, Okay, so that's the question like I Definitely agree that you know socially and culturally being penetrated is often thought of as gay for a man. But yeah. Is it actually it like ah are are go ahead.
[42:33] Mike: Um, I mean I think that I I think that you would have you would you would be a different person. You would have a different psychology like let's say that you and you could do this. You could do it very quickly if you decided to do an experiment you say look I'm going to 5 different times have guys.
[42:50] Mike: Penetrative Anal sex on me with condoms. You could make it safe I think you I think your life your life thereafter. This is my opinion that your life thereafter even though I know you're very unaffected by stuff I think your life thereafter would be pretty different I think it would change you and men don't Yeah, it's like.
[42:54] Keith: Ah.
[43:04] Keith: In a way that being pegged 5 times wouldn't.
[43:10] Mike: I think being pegged 5 times would change you to I was just going the most I was going the most extreme but sure no I think it would change you it would make you it would make you ah have a more sort of breadth of experience and I think guys don't necessarily want to do that. Um and look all experiences are not.
[43:13] Keith: Um, yeah.
[43:28] Mike: The way it changes you might not necessarily be to your liking or something that like is adaptive for for your life situation. So.
[43:36] Keith: Um, I wonder if I had anal sex performed on me 5 times if you just like naturally start to like it.
[43:50] Mike: I think that I think that ah the thing that I've thought would be interesting. No I Know this is interesting from having sex with a woman is that ah it's somewhat unusual for a man to have a woman sorry to have anybody get pleasure directly from your body without you doing something. Makes sense like usually you have to be an active participant and so the notion of you being a purely passive participant would be very unusual because for a man men are not ah valued as as passive Participants. We're not that Attractive. We're not unless you're like a male model right? But you have to be active and so it would be very strange.
[44:19] Keith: No, we have to do stuff.
[44:27] Mike: I Think it would create a lot of soul searcharching sort of to like be in this position where it's like oh like somebody got pleasure out of my body without me. We might be kind of frightening Actually I mean like gosh like I could be a target I could be a victim like right I mean there there are all these things like I think don't don't don't occur to men like if I'm going for a jog at night or in the evening.
[44:36] Keith: Right.
[44:47] Mike: Wow I could be victimized like that just never occurs to me now and it occurs I mean I'm sure you've had this just just last week I was out for a run and this woman was terrified by me that I was running toward her and I don't I never know what to do I don't know how to calm her nerves. So I just ran past her and she was calmed down.
[44:57] Keith: Yeah, Ali right.
[45:04] Mike: Once I got pastor because she's like oh this guy's fine but like and they don't want to look at you and all sorts of stuff. Well, that's how women feel all the time women aren't comfortable in a lot of situations and that comes from partly this yeah, that's right, they are They are passively passively without doing anything That's like I I I heard a report on Npr about women.
[45:06] Keith: Um, right.
[45:09] Keith: Yeah, well, they're vulnerable.
[45:15] Keith: Okay.
[45:22] Mike: Apparently girls used to be kept in cages in chinatown in San Francisco and as like sex slaves I don't know how true this is ah the reason I'm not sure how true it is is because I think if a woman is kept in a cage for long enough like she will no longer be attractive I think you would probably have to actually be sort of nice to somebody to make them attractive as a prostitute. But anyway that it's sitting aside.
[45:26] Keith: Yeah.
[45:37] Keith: Yeah, change. Yeah.
[45:40] Mike: They're they're pictures of cages So this exists like that could never. They could never really happen with a man right? or like in our normal way of thinking like a man never going to be put in a cage is like a thing to be used. So it's just yeah that role change I think be hard Anyway, go ahead.
[45:44] Keith: Um, yeah, right? Okay I mean there was an interesting meandering path there but like I guess I really. We've talked about this a few times and I so I just can't square it in my mind like what makes something that a female is doing to me gay and is it that it's like a cascading slope. Towards something that that's obviously gay and so that something that is non-zero gay must be gay does that make sense. So You know once you know a woman is penetrating with you then. The the leap toward being penetrated by a penis is is shorter.
[46:41] Mike: Yeah I mean at at the risk of ah sounding woke. Um I do think that like there is validity to the psychological concept that people like Matt Walsh laugh at that. There's a or Ben Shapiro these like far right? guys. Ah that gender and sex are just totally the same thing like the sorry.
[46:51] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[46:57] Mike: They laugh at the notion that there's some difference there. There is a difference so she's a woman but if a if a woman puts a fake penis on herself and penetrates your anus. She's operating like a male right? She's she's occupying the gender role of a man and you're occupying the gender role of a gay man.
[47:09] Keith: Right.
[47:15] Keith: Now right.
[47:16] Mike: Who's receiving anal sex like so that's the thing That's what's going to go through your mind and like I think there's a lot of there's a number of behaviors you could engage with a woman where where yes she's her sex is female but she's operating as a male and and vice versa like there are things you could do as a man.
[47:28] Keith: Um, but but could somebody erect erect scaffolding in their mind that strongly delineates the penetration coming from a woman or a man.
[47:42] Mike: I Think they'd be my personal opinion is they'd be sort of fooling themselves I think that like that's that like I think that I um I continue to think and people I've gotten. We've gotten emails complaining about this I continue to think that a man who has I mean if you do receptive pegging a couple times.
[47:44] Keith: I say okay.
[47:58] Mike: Whatever like I mean something people do things whatever. But if it's like a part of your normal repertory I strongly suspect That's that you're on the spectrum of bisexual gay like it because you're yeah, you're you're basically like I want to put the woman into the male role here. That's my take.
[48:09] Keith: Right? Huh Yeah I mean I think that would be a really hot take and in sex positive communities or or Kink positive communities I'm sure.
[48:24] Mike: Um, well they don't like categories at all. But I mean you know.
[48:27] Keith: Yeah I know I Yeah I Just don't know if that makes it wrong I Like yeah right.
[48:32] Mike: They would say something like well. What's a gender role. What do you even mean and it's like okay I mean like I'm willing to acknowledge that gender and sex. There's some. There's some discrepancy there like ah there could be a very feminine man and so forth like these are these are real things I think but I'm not willing to acknowledge that there's just no roles at all and like being born with a penist.
[48:45] Keith: Um.
[48:50] Mike: Tells you nothing about the person that's kind of silly. So I mean mostly what's going on in this question is this woman just doesn't want to receive anal I think which is pretty normal. She's like how do I get out of this.
[48:50] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[49:00] Keith: Oh yeah, who knows I don't even remember the details what you said? The first comment is remind him that gay men love receiving blow jobs and ask him if you should stop sucking him. Yeah I feel like comments like that are just disingenuous. They're not. Like that's not the gotcha that he thinks it is that they think it is.
[49:19] Mike: Well, there's no I don't think there's an equivalence there I think that like a blowjob is viewed as like a totally normal stock part of sex like anal sex is not typically so.
[49:29] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, okay, all right? Ah let's move on this person says. Ah this person's 33 his wife is 30 my wife told me that she will never satisfy my sexual desires I need some insight into this situation. What should I do. And married for almost ten years she's a wonderful wife I find her insanely attractive and I find myself wanting to have sex with her anywhere from 2 to 4 times a week I even still have sex dreams about her frequently I communicate all of this. She has a lower sex drive than me and always generally seems much less interested in sex than me I've basically always coped.
[49:58] Mike: Always generally okay.
[50:02] Keith: Yeah I've basically always coped with this by telling myself that if I continue down a path of self-improvement her desire will increase I work out in sand shape I work long hours to support us I carry my weight around the house etc. We're almost ten years in and her desire is not increased. In fact, it is steadily declined throughout the marriage when we discuss the issue she talks about it like there's not. Actually an issue or reason it just is what it is this morning we were talking about it and she angrily said I'm never going to satisfy your sexual desires for a relationship I don't know what to think I'm devastated. My only thought is to continue with self-improvement and hope so yeah brutal I mean I think it's good that like she. Said the thing ah because she said I'm never going to satisfy your sexual desires for a relationship I think that's probably true.
[50:41] Mike: Which thing which thing that she said.
[50:50] Mike: Well, it depends I mean it depends of course on exactly how he presented the situation to her. Um, but okay, but she yes she's basically saying it's I Okay, the thing I would say is I think that most of the time. No maybe half of the time.
[50:55] Keith: Sure.
[51:06] Mike: These situations are ah particularly when it's a man that's complaining about the woman. These situations are information based and um, yeah I mean like the what I mean by information based is that like the woman doesn't just doesn't understand the what it's like to be a guy.
[51:07] Keith: Um, ah.
[51:25] Mike: And so they don't care that much about sexual frequency or I mean within reason but acts you do, um, they just don't yeah like so I mean so things like I mean I think I think I actually think in that situation. This is a little different but in that situation if we have a listener This is true if we have a listener.
[51:30] Keith: Yeah, like.
[51:42] Mike: Who's a guy in a situation where he's not sure if like he hasn't had the woman explicitly say she's not interested have her listen to our podcast like I think that in other words I I think there's a dearth of men being honest about their experiences in this domain. There's a lot of joking about it and stuff like that. But it's like look women don't know I've I've repeatedly gotten feedback.
[51:54] Keith: Um, yeah.
[52:02] Mike: That people don't know how often men masturbate because people lie about it and even even sex positive people lie about it because they they're like well I don't want to admit that it's like that often and then when you when somebody says oh it's like hey I beat off 3 times a day. It's always treated as a joke even though it's not always a joke. There are people that just do that guys? um.
[52:04] Keith: Right? right.
[52:18] Keith: Right? people. Ah.
[52:20] Mike: Yeah, so so they can yeah so there can be an information discrepancy there and ah she might just not realize ah like how yeah what? what's going on mentally for him like how much of his mental Bandwidth is taken up by this. This woman is a little different I think she basically made he may have explained that to her and she believes him and she's like yeah.
[52:30] Keith: Well.
[52:38] Keith: Right? What should he do.
[52:39] Mike: I'm I'm out and if that's the case. Yeah, it's over like I just wanted to say the other thing because well I think they're I think they're like I think you know I think Net they're headed down the path of polyamory breaking up etc like it's not yeah.
[52:52] Keith: I think those are the 2 choices right? like she becomes comfortable with him fulfilling his sexual needs otherwise or they divorce and he fulfills his sexual needs otherwise or he could live as as effectively a celibate but but.
[53:02] Mike: Right? I mean I think that I think that for a woman in that condition I've yeah.
[53:10] Keith: To your point. Sorry just just to like put a ah bow on your point she may not know what the imposition of making him behave as a celibate like how much of an imposition that is.
[53:21] Mike: That's right and I think that like that he may I'm I'm assuming he communicated it Well he may not have um and I think that like yeah I think that's a yeah, but that's a plug for like sort of male focused sex podcasts even though like people say oh that's gross. Okay, whatever for a woman to listen to I mean.
[53:23] Keith: Yeah, so we should try that first so that she just understands the magnitude of the problem.
[53:35] Keith: Right.
[53:38] Mike: And then but ah, the other thing is that a woman if a woman who's in this situation I'm sure we have 0 literally 0 listeners who that are women in this situation. But if we did I would say yeah you might want to like get therapy or something because the. Okay, you could say Asexuality is normal fine but like you're going to be alone because there's no,, There's a very there's essentially no men out there that will tolerate this I mean like ah you know I think a lot of ah problems in.
[53:55] Keith: Right.
[54:08] Mike: Marriages and relationships are because of this type of situation like infidelity is an obvious one but there are other things that that like just weird behaviors that come out when guys are not getting what they need. So yes, so so as a woman it's like if you want to have a relationship with a guy. It's like hey you should.
[54:20] Keith: Yeah.
[54:26] Mike: You need to reckon with this one way or another anyway.
[54:27] Keith: Yeah I mean there are some potential details here like it might be just him that she's not attracted to Yada Yada Yada but.
[54:38] Mike: Well, but that's I mean that there's nothing if that were the case or something wrong with it. It's like look just be honest like I I'm not yeah for whatever reason maybe he's just lost like gained a bunch of weight or something. Maybe there's something like that going on it. You think she would have said that though when he confronted her So like we.
[54:55] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[54:58] Mike: Yeah, when you create an emotionally charged situation Often people are more likely to just out with it and just be honest and yeah and I think there like it is somewhat common for women to have this thing where they're just not interested and it's like okay.
[55:03] Keith: Um, yeah.
[55:08] Keith: Yeah I mean we get these comments all the time I Just yeah I think expecting. But yeah, either a man or woman expecting their partner to live in Celibacy is not fair.
[55:12] Mike: Right. Their men weren't also.
[55:26] Mike: Well I I actually think that a man I think that women are much more capable of tolerating that than a man. So like while it's not ideal I think that a man like I've many times or significant number of times read ah arguments from women that they basically can just turn their sex drive completely off and that seems to be a thing.
[55:26] Keith: And so.
[55:42] Keith: That's true. It comes up so infrequently that it's almost academic. But yeah, yeah, all right I think we have time for 1 more thing I don't remember where I found this it just pasted this into my topic list. This person says.
[55:43] Mike: You know, fair? Yeah, but yeah, if a guy right.
[55:54] Mike: Yep.
[55:58] Keith: My little bro said he was on a date and was going extremely well plans for a second date were made hands were held really went smoothly at the end of the night he said it looked like she was waiting for a kiss so he went for it and she freaked out said she wanted the kiss but it was sexual assault for going for it without asking first and she goes to them i.
[56:13] Mike: Now Jesus.
[56:18] Keith: Have started before I kiss anybody like right before I'll say I'm going to kiss you now is that okay and I have a 100% yes oh no wait. That's not true I did have someone I think I talked about it on the podcast when yeah because she said no and then.
[56:31] Mike: You did? yeah.
[56:37] Keith: It's like ok well do I try get on the next date the date after that like it sort of puts things in her court like she's she needs to be the one. No, we ended up. Ah, how do you say more more than kissing. Ah, but I don't remember when or.
[56:42] Mike: What happened did did the relationship end.
[56:50] Mike: Um, kissing okay good. Ok good story.
[56:57] Keith: How it went down. Um, yeah, not great, but I be anyway. Yeah I I do think maybe in this modern Era You you got to ask and.
[57:11] Mike: But do you you you can find your asking to that level like do you say may I tone your clit now that would actually be very funny to like ah may I insert a second finger into your vagina now.
[57:20] Keith: Mike I think that is the I think this that level of micro consent is the recommended strategy by like if there was a sex ed class I think that's what they say now are your kids in sex ed class yet.
[57:33] Mike: Is it. They've they have not had micro consent instruction as far as I know but yes, they've had some amount did the yeah the is it is a the one and done in other words, if you say may I kiss you now. Do you have to say it every single time in this rubric.
[57:40] Keith: Um, okay.
[57:47] Keith: Yeah, that's an interesting question. No well I Definitely don't ask after that I think once consent is given it's boy.
[57:53] Mike: So it seems like it would be better.
[58:02] Keith: I'm afraid to even say these words I think it's implied going forward. It needs to be explicitly revoked.
[58:06] Mike: Yeah, it seems to me like a better strategy here. Okay Fine. You have your your kissing thing fine. Maybe that's fine, but like the at some and this would be much easier for people that are more mature adults to to have just a conversation like what do you?? What do you like to do and not like to do and just like do that. So then you could kind of get it all out in the open and and then you have your consents and so you know you're not supposed to like she doesn't like her anus rubbed her. Whatever whatever Behavior you're trying you know or she does like this and you can kind of say okay, right? which actually would be.. There's something wrong with that I mean having that conversation.
[58:31] Keith: Um, yeah.
[58:36] Keith: At the be at the beginning of every date she could give you a list of things. She's consented to on that date and.
[58:46] Mike: Well I'm no I'm thinking I'm thinking it would be a long term you you have an a sort of discussion and then you're you're ready to have at it. Um I don't I don't know what would be the result of that.
[58:51] Keith: Yeah, well I think consent for various activities slowly accumulates over the period of early dating right? like when you first when you first meet you don't have consent to kiss. But if you do well then you do and then after that you don't necessarily.
[59:01] Mike: Um, sure I'm just.
[59:10] Keith: Have consent to tongue harasshole. But if you do well you may gain that.
[59:13] Mike: Yeah I could just see there being like I is it. There's There's some kind of apps that I've seen before where people kind of indicate privately their preferences and they match them up or something with their partner I could see that being something that would make the woman more comfortable particularly the woman because it's often. The man who's boundary crossing right? So it's like oh he knows already that I don't want my asshole tongue.
[59:31] Keith: Right.
[59:33] Mike: And so she doesn't have to worry about him doing that surprise. Yeah.
[59:35] Keith: Yeah I mean okay, we've we've been through this before I mean the general things are like yeah like people consent to being kissed they consent to you know like if you're fully naked. You know they consent to to having their their their breasts kissed most. Consent to being going down On. Um, but then yeah, the things that the the majority of people might not consent to are various anal play um various slapping or choking like those things need to be asked explicitly, but those other things are. I mean it depends you like how normal is a thing and as you get to more abnormal things you have to ask.
[01:00:17] Mike: I think I mean yeah, the the thing that I would encourage people to do or I would encourage society to do maybe is recast this in terms of instead of in terms of consent in terms of like what do you like? so it could be more fun than that and I don't think that there's really a difference right? ah.
[01:00:32] Keith: Well, there is a little bit based on timing but like once the timing thing is gone. It's what do you like.
[01:00:34] Mike: Well, yeah, and you know I guess I Guess the only other thing Sure sure. But I think most I think a lot of the yeah I guess there are 2 levels there but like the the the the the consent thing is typically just like yes I consent to. I Guess kissing and then sex or something. There aren't that many levels but the micro kids I guess I was talking to the micro consent thing. So If you're thinking in those terms I would suggest. Yeah, some inventory of what you like would be more fun and would sort of ah.
[01:00:52] Keith: Right? right.
[01:01:09] Mike: It's It's not all about like red lights and green lights. It's about like yeah, what's better or something I don't know.
[01:01:13] Keith: If a woman is on her period and she doesn't like having period sex. She feels insecure or doesn't like the mass or whatever it may be does. She have some obligation obligation to tell her partner that when when.
[01:01:28] Mike: That she's on her period or that she doesn't like it.
[01:01:32] Keith: Yeah, when she she I mean she might not want to tell her partner that because she might not want to imagine in her own mind that the only reason her partner is seeing her is for the sex coming at the end of the of the date. So she might like resent that she has to tell him that. He's not going to have sex that night
[01:01:51] Mike: Yeah I don't actually this is this is actually an interesting topic. You've brought up right at the end of the podcast I think we should hold and the reason why is because I think there's like I be I actually am curious of your experience with this in in like your dating experience like what yell like what I know how this works in like a marriage situation but like I.
[01:01:55] Keith: Yeah, all right? fine. Okay, yeah.
[01:02:08] Mike: Yeah, there's probably a lot of like but yeah, it's sort of interesting right? because I mean it's going to happen. Yeah.
[01:02:09] Keith: all right? all right we got a cliffhanger here then so all right, that's a wrap on this episode of your mileage may vary. We are always hungry for feedback, especially negative feedback. So if you have any you can send it to us at y m m v pod at Gmail.com pay $10 for any feedback received so just give us your Paypal or venmo or cash shop or whatever. We also like listener questions. So if you have any for us the experts send them to the same place y mmv pod at Gmail.com and if you want to want us to keep it private and not use it on the show. Just let us know and we will definitely honor that. Thank you for listening and we look forward to catching you next week on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 127: Double Wrapping, Rhythm Method, Pulling Out, Is Submission Gay? Adieu Lolita

Episode Transcript