Your Mileage May Vary: Barbie Heteronormative? Cum Reliability Thresholds, Stuck Condoms, Blow Refusals, Hot Exercise Videos

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we're going to discuss a man who jerks off to his wife's exercise videos a man who discovers his girlfriend is boring in bed. And a man who comes very rarely during partnered sex and more I am Keith my co-host is Mike and Mike Do you think Taylor Swiss Swift is a feminist.
[00:29] Mike: Oh lord I mean I don't ah you should ask me which wave of feminine feminism she is is she fourth wave. Third wave I'm sure she considers herself feminist I'm not sure third or fourth it depends it sort of depends on.
[00:36] Keith: Ah, right? we're we're on Fourth now right? Fourth is the current wave.
[00:46] Mike: You mean? and and I would argue that feminism is wrapping around in the same way that if you if you sort of hang out with somebody. That's a really really hardcore like communist or hardcore like what you know? what's the other side like fascist. Whatever the other side is they wind up saying around the same things and so I think that when you get to a certain level.
[00:58] Keith: Yeah.
[01:06] Mike: You get to feminists who actually say things that are pretty anti-women. It's it's confusing. It's like yeah who who are who are you helping here. But anyway why why do you ask? the question.
[01:07] Keith: This.
[01:17] Keith: Um, thinking about the Barbie movie and Taylor Swift and how they are the 2 dominant pop cultural things of the summer and
[01:21] Mike: Um, okay.
[01:29] Mike: Okay, I mean she she's been dominant for a really long time I was disappointed I don't get involved in these things usually but I was I did some reading about her breaking up with her boyfriend. Do you know about this Taylor Swift I mean so she was she you know she famously writes songs about her exes.
[01:40] Keith: Now now. Yes, yes.
[01:48] Mike: Right? Ah, like some some pretty good songs. Although let me just put a little caveat in here when I say she writes songs like I've spent some time with people in the industry ah particularly producers and the like and I'm well aware that like when Taylor Swift writes a song.
[01:58] Keith: Here We go? yeah.
[02:07] Mike: It has a certain meaning she's involved in writing the song I believe that um, but her songs are pretty clever anyway. Ah so so that she gets help she gets help ah the um so anyway she has songs that are about X's she was dating this ah gentleman.
[02:12] Keith: Are.
[02:26] Mike: British guy for like 6 years she ah did performed on Snl and like was very clearly like sort of looking at him in the wings as she was performing like sort of like glowingly and so on and so forth and the reports I saw were that she um, broke up with him because it was heading toward marriage which is funny if you know.
[02:26] Keith: Okay.
[02:37] Keith: Aha.
[02:46] Mike: Ah, the sort of her discography because her early songs were all that the the crescendo of all the songs was the guy proposing. So of course you never know. Maybe these were all completely ghost written and so you don't know but but it's sort of odd right? You have this person who when she was you know 16 really? ah.
[02:52] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[03:04] Keith: Um, yeah.
[03:04] Mike: Appeared to fantasize about that and now it's like that's the worst thing that could happen or she's sort of running away from it or maybe it would mess up her image I'm not sure. Um, and yeah, so that so that there's there's some news around that people can go read the various tabloid rumors and and she apparently has a new boyfriend. So you're having trouble caring. It's hard I know yeah.
[03:24] Keith: Is her I mean I don't her nebulous ex-boyfriend. Yeah I don't care. Ah, it's just seems strange that yeah Taylor Swift and Barbie. Are basically as heteronormative as you can possibly imagine.
[03:43] Mike: So there's a tickt to trend about ah Taylor Swift claiming that they these people they're like sort of spunking through her lyrics claiming that they they think she's a lesbian and I think there is it is somewhat credible. It is somewhat credible like there. There are a lot of Taylor Swift lyrics that.
[03:53] Keith: Ah, ah.
[04:03] Mike: Seem to contain veiled references to her being potentially not straight so there is that so I'm not sure if she's told. But but I agreed that I mean her.
[04:11] Keith: She'd have to be writing those songs though for that to even have any possible meaning so yourre your you're big paradoxical here or in or in inconsistent all right, go for it.
[04:13] Mike: Okay, Lord okay, so now let me let me explain well I'll tell I'll do like a thirty second digression what goes on there so she has a life and she has life experience. She has thoughts feelings. She experiences things. She writes things down in a notebook. It's not that she like has things she's writing about but and and you do too everybody has like life experiences that are like interesting things that go on in their life they could they could write a song about the differences between that and like the super catchy lyric and that's where like just like.
[04:40] Keith: Sure I say.
[04:47] Mike: Ah, you could have a funny thing happen at the supermarket but that doesn't mean you could be a writer in Seinfeld right? Seinfeld had these really really creative people working on it and they notably would change writing staffs every every every season mostly they would change most you it was a very tough job and people would run out of ideas and like creative stuff and it's the same thing she she works with different people because you need.
[04:49] Keith: Right.
[05:06] Mike: Yeah, it's It's how you how you you know, write the write the lyrics that's difficult the ideas of course like yeah, so so the point is I do believe that she could be putting veiled references to this stuff in there saying like having these little ideas and these little kind of winks to herself and stuff definitely definitely. But like there's more to that.
[05:07] Keith: Okay, okay, all right.
[05:21] Keith: Her Best friend her best friend for a long time was a Victoria secret angel.
[05:24] Mike: Yeah, strong than that. Yeah.
[05:29] Mike: Yes, that's right, she notably would hang out with this group of very very attractive women and that there's a set of lyrics and like it. It seems sort of plausible but all that being said, um yes I agree with you that her stage presence is extremely heteronormative.
[05:43] Keith: Um, right.
[05:44] Mike: Although she'll say she's super like progressive and the like and um I do like I listen frequently to her songs while running So I'm very familiar with her catalog. It's it's good. It has ah a beat that is well paceced for a cadence of running and I just like this look the songs I think are fantastic. Um.
[05:57] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah I know you've liked her for the you know more than a decade. You've been fan. Sure her music's good. Her music is objectively good. Yeah.
[06:03] Mike: Whoever whoever's writing them. Yeah I don't really care who's writing them like it's it's fine like the producers like I just I yeah right? They do a good job. Um, and ah, um, so so I'm familiar with that with with that sort of stuff I considered going to. 1 of the concerts I will say that long ago I went to a Britney Spears concert and it was regrettable. Incident. You did too. Okay, it was a regrettable incident for me because while I similarly liked the music because of ah my.
[06:24] Keith: Um, yeah, me too.
[06:36] Mike: Yeah, the music itself was compelling I mean she's obviously a train wreck in a lot of ways and like certainly never even purported to write the songs. Um, her biggest hits were written by that dude in Sweden um, but she ah or Norway where was's at but she. Going to the concert was terrible because basically it was just it was just a set of teenage girls with their dads and this concert was almost completely costume changes and I knew that the same thing would happen with Taylor Swift it would just be strange and so so yeah I mean it's it's designed. It's a very consumable product extremely disney extremely disney. It's designed for the audience that it's made for.
[07:00] Keith: Um, right.
[07:09] Keith: Yes.
[07:12] Mike: But does that mean she's actually a header nor heteronormative person I don't know like she she may well be a Lesbian or something.
[07:16] Keith: Um, yeah I mean whether she is heterosexual or not is almost unimportant compared to the cultural impact. She's she's having which I think is very hetero normative and I've I've tried bringing this up with some Bay area women who.
[07:25] Mike: That's right.
[07:35] Keith: You know of course are always quite progressive and they get quite defensive and offended when you bring up the possibility that the Barbie movie or Taylor Swift may need a counterbalance ah in order to have had a summer that is I don't know.
[07:55] Keith: Advancing the values that I think they want to have advanced.
[07:57] Mike: Well I mean yeah I hear what you're saying you're basically pointing out a contradiction since since I don't think heteronormative stuff is problematic in any way because it is actually the vast majority of people I think a more interesting perhaps topic on that or maybe you've had a similar type of. Rappart rappartee with people about the women's world cup team of the United States and their poor performance which is challenging in light of it's true, but it hasn't really measured up to um, their well they spent a lot of time complaining about how much they were paid.
[08:17] Keith: Well, they're still alive.
[08:29] Keith: Yes, essence.
[08:31] Mike: Arguing that they that they're worth more etc. They're you know compared to the competition better than the men's team and then to have sort of have this happen is not great, right? Okay, from what I've heard it is essentially over and.
[08:40] Keith: Yeah, it's not over yet. But yes that they have looked under whelming so far.
[08:49] Mike: By the time people listen to this. It might well be.
[08:49] Keith: Um, yeah, or maybe they will have advanced Anyway, what was your point going to be about the women's world cup team.
[08:55] Mike: Oh ah that that it's sort of a a notable counterpoint where you have people that were're sort of you know trying it's it's ailu where where where sometimes women are kind of anti heteronormative. They're less. They're they're they're less heteronormative. Ah. Obviously I'm excluding like the people who have who are complaining about like the trans athletes and stuff like that like that is not the case in the in the world cup situation. Um, so yeah I mean it's just a situation where you have like a non heteronormative thing that's also a cultural moment in the summer
[09:14] Keith: Um, have.
[09:30] Keith: I'd say yeah.
[09:31] Mike: But maybe it is actually heteron normative because the non header owner of people are losing and performing poorly is the Barbie movie actually not heteron nor have you have you watched it is it head.
[09:35] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean there's I have not seen it. There is active debate about whether it's feminist or anti-feminist I mean obviously Mattel. And Greta Gerwig who is that his director were in cahoots to try to make something that's basically a big commercial for Barbie like they're not trying to harm the brand and but they're also aware that you know Barbie's been considered problematic in the past and so you know they needed to thread a sort of tricky needle here and.
[09:59] Mike: Then.
[10:13] Keith: To the extent that that could be measured as successful. It's absolutely been It's you know, been the highest grossing movie of the summer so far. Ah, but I think there's some debate about whether. The movie itself is feminist or not It's certainly surface level feminist like most people walk out of that movie being like oh that was great. You know I really like the values that it was talking about. But yeah and people like Ben Shapiro are really upset about the movie. He thinks it's you know, 2 anti-men that kind of thing. But then there's some people on the far left that are like this is actually kind of trash. It's fake it's fake feminist you know it's like the same folks who complain about you know, gay pride being corporatized and stuff you know it's like it's not enough. It's it's like a varnished.
[10:47] Mike: Um, who.
[11:03] Mike: Is this like would they argue For example that wonder woman as a movie is not particularly feminist because while you have a female lead character. She's kind of in a skimpy outfit with her boobs smashed together etc is that.
[11:04] Keith: Version of feminism.
[11:15] Keith: Yeah, the entire premise of its popularity is it's a super heteroorbitative presentation of a woman you know providing eye candy and you know the director would say like no, she's you know, saving the world. But. You know as all.
[11:33] Mike: It's a fair point I mean I mean like take like I mean I find this show abhorrent on like 6 levels but take the big bang theory I mean there you have ah male leads who are explicitly like not you know macho men. They're sort of nerdy and lame and so on and so forth. So it is possible.
[11:46] Keith: Um.
[11:50] Mike: On on the male side to have something that's not particularly masculine depicted and and do well I'm sure there are many other examples like that and of course on that one you have Kaylee Coco Coco set against them Cuoco who is at least was when she was on 8 simple rules for how to fuck my teenage daughter.
[12:02] Keith: Kuoco. Yeah.
[12:10] Mike: That's how that that was the name of that show right? Pretty attractive.
[12:10] Keith: No, and it wasn't that no that wasn't Kaye Cooco wasn't that John Ritter's daughter wasn't she on that show.
[12:15] Mike: It was Kaye Cuoco was the daughter you were supposed to want to fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you probably because he wanted to fuck her it. It dissected his aorta his desire.
[12:19] Keith: She played John Ritter's daughter and then John Ritter died yeah
[12:31] Keith: Ah, we have to decide what we had it all right? Let's move on to 1 of our topics here. So this guy wrote a treatise. So I'm just going to read the first the first paragraph but he says I jerked. Off to my wife's videos and I feel horrible. My wife and I frequent to our home gym and she records her workouts to check her form and keep track of her progress today when she went for her after workout shower shower I went to get something in our gym when I noticed she left her phone there I went to pick it up when I saw that it was open to a video in her camera roll. Was an innocent enough video her on a stair climbing a machine but it got me hard to the point where it was almost painful. She had her hand on her hip and I could see every curve of her perfect backside. It took her phone to our bedroom and while she was in the shower for another 20 minutes jerked to it because I knew she'd be too tired for saxon would most likely go to take a nap. We fuck regularly sex is not taboo. Still I feel like I've disrespected her greatly. My wife is a very respectable woman and I feel I've disrespected her greatly for impeding impeding. That's the word he uses on something that she does to take care of herself. Yeah yeah, and using it as a prop to get off get myself off.
[13:35] Mike: Impeding impinging. Maybe.
[13:44] Keith: She's my wife but that video was not meant for me to see never mind for me to jerk off to find it hard to look her in the eye because I keep thinking about what I did should I be feeling this way.
[13:52] Mike: No no, he should not.
[13:56] Keith: I Mean how does this square This sounds like a man that would also struggle to receive a blowjob from his wife because he would feel like it's demeaning her sort of I mean I would have no problem.
[14:05] Mike: Oh are you making fun of yourself here some sort of.
[14:14] Keith: Being aroused by my partner that seems like a normal thing I'm guessing if she found out about this. She would be flattered. Um, unless they're like very religious or there's some sort of weird cultural thing going on there but this notion of defiling her by.
[14:27] Mike: So.
[14:32] Keith: By sexualizing her seems pretty weird.
[14:37] Mike: Yeah I mean there is an equivalent or ah ah, kind of an analogous thing that women do toward men which is that they will fantasize about various male behaviors. Not not a guy beating off not typically a guy in the gym. But for example, I've definitely encountered women talking about how hot it is to like. See their significant other like you know, performing some useful function usually like fixing the car or something like they're these pretty. You know, sort of ordinary.. What did you think I was going to say Oh no, no, no, no, no no I'm actually I'm telling the truth like these are yeah I mean it's like basically.
[14:59] Keith: Okay I thought you're going to say buying them a bracelet or something I thought you're here to go a maximum. Yeah I hear you know all right displaying displaying competence in some some way.
[15:13] Mike: The point is yeah I mean the the genders the the sexes have things they value about 1 another and men. Yeah value fecundity in women and women value. Yeah utility in a lot of ways in men and yeah I mean it's sort of. So so like and it is it is the case that there are women have read at least accounts from women who masturbate ah sort of a fantasizing about their partner being you know, doing something like this so being sort of useful. So it's really actually there's an analogy and you can imagine as a guy like would that gross you out. Would it upset you I don't. I don't think so would be sort of sweet right? yeah.
[15:49] Keith: No absolutely not yeah no, ah but yeah, this guy seems to think that he has wronged her by being aroused by her without her knowledge I guess.
[15:58] Mike: Um, I think that I mean the the thing that it makes me think is that um, let's okay, it's a more plausible story if let's say the one let's say the wife does fitness classes at an exclusive gym. That's kind of expensive and there're like 5 of them in there doing the stair stair stairmaster. But for some reason they get videos of it for check their form and then he's beating off and he's looking at 1 of the other women that makes more sense to me because I don't think that he would ah the era of the aura of mystery wouldn't exist with his wife right.
[16:17] Keith: Um, wow.
[16:33] Mike: In terms of like what what does she actually look like what's going on here I think I think that it would be easier as a guy Basically always I mean for if you took an equivalent attractiveness but different woman and gave me a gym video of her. It would always be better. So so I suspect that's actually what happened and then.
[16:45] Keith: Um, yes, yes.
[16:52] Mike: Then the question makes more sense. It's like oh well, you're sexualizing someone else and so you feel embarrassed or yeah but grabbing his wife's video. It's like what that it doesn't even make any sense.
[16:59] Keith: yeah yeah I mean we're addressing the premise here. But I mean there's some holes in this story. First of all who videotapes themselves on a stairmaster for their form that sounds like something you videotape so you can.
[17:06] Mike: Yeah.
[17:16] Mike: A grade That's probably really what's going on.
[17:17] Keith: But on Tiktok later or something like if you're doing squats or something maybe but you know yeah, that's odd and then you know it's weird that her phone was unlocked I don't I don't even know if I can do that on my phone. Maybe you can make it on unlocked by default but nobody does that.
[17:39] Mike: You might know the password I mean the ah the.
[17:40] Keith: Well that starts getting a little bit more problematic then.
[17:44] Mike: Yeah I mean that it does make more sense that it's going to be posted on Tiktok like I don't even know like. For example, if you have and I mean I've I've encountered this type of situation at least scores stories about these situations a lot if you have a partner who wants to video. Let's say if you're a woman you have a male partner that wants to video what's going on so he can like enjoy it later or like masturbate to it I think that's always a lie. Okay, if you were gone if you're okay if he's if he's deploying to the military or something and he's not going to be there but I don't think that a guy would ever. Do you think you would ever be. That interested in having a video of you and your partner if you're still with that partner and you can have sex with them when you want right? So it seems like there must always be an ulterior motive unless there's some sort of reasonable explanation for the video for it for him being interested in it.
[18:23] Keith: Yeah, no I don't think that would be compelling to me.
[18:33] Keith: Right? Yeah yeah, I'm a little. Yeah yeah I mean we've talked about this before like any content your partner has of you in a compromised state is.
[18:37] Mike: So women should be suspicious. Yeah.
[18:53] Keith: Probably not going to go to just him or at least you should assume it's not going to go to just him if you're going to send it to him.
[19:00] Mike: Now. Okay, but your reference to the blowjob thing makes me think that I mean it sounds like this would never happen to you because you would always choose a an unknown female porn to use instead of ah your partner's video. For masturbation purposes. But let's say you did do this would you be embarrassed like this guy in the same way as like okay okay.
[19:19] Keith: No I wouldn't be embarrassed I think it would be very flattering to my partner I think most people are aroused by thinking about their partner being aroused by them.
[19:30] Mike: Okay, let me let me take this a little bit further. Let's say that you are ah living with your partner or you you view? somehow you have accessed all their things. Let's say you're masturbating to their high school yearbook but of them. It's that and there are say 35 now
[19:37] Keith: Yeah.
[19:43] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[19:47] Mike: You're beating off to and she was on the she was a cheerleader so there's a bunch of pictures where she's like doing the splits and you can sort of see some crotch action. Would you be embarrassed by that if she caught you doing that or if you would you say? yeah I beat off all the time to your cheerleader pictures would you reveal it.
[19:48] Keith: Um, yeah, yep, yep.
[19:59] Keith: Embarrassed Would I be embarrassed I think I wouldn't because I think she would be upset I mean yeah, it's like taking your partner. But.
[20:06] Mike: But you wouldn't be. You'd be like this makes sense.
[20:14] Mike: Um, have you ever.
[20:14] Keith: Okay, let's let's set aside let's can we can we make make it that they were like a college cheerleader for the sake of this conversation. So there's not like a pedophilia aspect that people are going to shake their heads head all right? They're 18 all right? um.
[20:21] Mike: You know, let's just say they were a senior senior in high school so they're 18 I was my next question was going to be like what if you had like an elementary school picture of her and we're beating off to it and like should at that point I think it would be kind of weird right? You're like oh look at that little girl but it is your wife right? or your.
[20:30] Keith: Right.
[20:37] Keith: Yeah I mean at some point you have to like haul yourself into the police to save society from you. But yeah I mean it's tricky right? So like let's say let's say you know you're 20 years old you've been dating your partner for 5 years you met when you were 15
[20:40] Mike: Partner. I Don't know.
[20:55] Keith: And she sent you some pictures when they were 15 like what are the ethics of using those as ah in the spank bank I think most people would reflexively say that's gross. You should not do that. But.
[21:10] Mike: Um, really, but it is the same person.
[21:12] Keith: I think they would reflexively say that and but if they you know if if you could administer them truth serum and a polygraph they might feel differently.
[21:17] Mike: All right? What if you're what if you're it's like on the bachelor or the bachelorette and you're having hometowns and you're just visiting their parents and you wander into the den and you find the moms the moms.
[21:28] Keith: I Know where this is going Yes, go.
[21:36] Mike: Pictures when she was a cheerleader and she catches you beating off to that.
[21:41] Keith: Yeah, you might not get the ah you know at the end of those episodes. They always ask the dad. You know if if I should choose this person to marry do I have your permission and the dad's like wait. You're one of 4 people and you know or she's one of 4 people and you want me to give you. Permission for a 25% chance that you'll per put like it's such an odd thing anyway, I think the dad would turn down the ah weird proposal contract if he caught you masturbating to his wife's youth pictures.
[22:01] Mike: Um.
[22:11] Mike: So that would not be that would not be sweet there. So okay, so there is some limit to to where this get where this gets to um and you would be so so then there is also in your view a time limit on how long how far back somebody could go.
[22:16] Keith: Yeah.
[22:22] Keith: Yeah I mean Mike I don't think we need to be so extreme as to go back to high school like let's say your partner is 37 and she catches you looking at a picture on her Instagram from when she was 31 I think she I think she would maybe justifiably be.
[22:36] Mike: Roca.
[22:39] Mike: Looking at her beating off to.
[22:40] Keith: Pretty hurt by that like well but let's say she posts a good bikini thirst trap once a month you know she's done that once a month since 2015 and you're looking at some photo from 2018 and yeah, she she walks in on you jerking off to it. She might feel like yeah, why didn't you choose a more recent one. Are you not as attracted to my current form and the answer would probably be yes, but like that conversation is going to go extremely poorly. So yeah, there says there's a statute of limitations on.
[23:12] Mike: Huh? Okay, okay.
[23:18] Keith: Ah, you know the flattery there. It's got to be. It's got to be recent.
[23:20] Mike: Okay, so there's this guy with this guy with the gym video like he's he's is running into that a little bit although I guess within a year is probably sufficient to.
[23:30] Keith: Yeah I mean that video is hot off the press presumably you know it's less than 10 minutes old or whatever so that problem is avoided.
[23:35] Mike: Right? She was yeah why I mean it makes you wonder why he didn't just beat off while she was working out just be like.
[23:44] Keith: I don't know there's some edits in there where he sounds a little bit religious or at least um, sexually conservative but ah I didn't read it because one it was too long and 2 It's not very interesting.
[23:53] Mike: Um, herth.
[23:57] Mike: Okay, yeah, that would help explain his reticence here. Yeah.
[24:03] Keith: If listeners care. The link will be in the show notes as always. But I I wouldn't bother if I were you all right? Let's move on. Um this person says I don't think I can have sex with my girlfriend again after this I'm a 22 year old male and my girlfriend is 22 ah, we've had an open relationship for a fortnight now yesterday morning we had sex. It was all right? or so I thought she has this thing where she likes me to do all the work. We both finished and she went back to sleep last night. Maybe they both finished last night I had a hookup yep when a man says that his partner has orgasmed. Like what coefficient of truthiness. Do you do you add by default. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a little suspicious. Yeah, he's 20 he's 22.
[24:41] Mike: It depends on his age and so forth and like and like his claim. It was really brief. He did all the work and she went to sleep immediately. It makes it almost zero. Yeah so I mean like look she finished she finished. It's euphemistic. That just means she was done having sex doesn't mean she orgasms no for two weeks
[25:00] Keith: She's not there still rubbing her glit to the to this day. Okay, he goes on last night remember they're in an open relationship for two weeks last night I had a hookup with a girl from tinder and it was amazing. She was incredibly horny and wet and skilled I could barely keep up sounds great. Hell. Couldn't keep up period. She felt like she very much wanted me and to do it. You know it was incredible I know I shouldn't compare. It's misogynistic and gross and all but it's inevitable. What I did with my girlfriend now feels barely like sex at all more like something with a static doll but she is the love of my life and I definitely want to keep an active sex life with her.
[25:30] Mike: First.
[25:36] Keith: What do I do good people. Um, we don't know who initiated that but finding finding someone to have sex with within two weeks is
[25:39] Mike: Well, he's got he's he's been open had an open relationship for two weeks so it's pretty pretty intense right.
[25:54] Keith: Pretty impressive as a man if that's assuming he's being honest that he has a full time partner.
[25:57] Mike: Right? Ah, but I mean so yeah, it does suggest that he dropped oh I'm sure he's not but it's you mean you mean being honest with the the third the the new woman which is unlikely the um but it also suggests that the woman.
[26:08] Keith: Yes.
[26:15] Mike: He turned to and this situation was not particularly attractive the two weeks matters a bit on that level. It's unlikely this ah particularly attractive. So so maybe maybe what this is code for is his girlfriend is much more attractive but he's like oh this unattractive woman I hooked up with is really more hot to trot and.
[26:18] Keith: Right.
[26:33] Mike: Had more fun having sex with her That's probably a fairly normal experience right? Like would you say that your your ah the quality of the sex you have with a woman is in virtually proportionate to protractiveness that would be my my prior.
[26:47] Keith: Yeah, um, this is a little bit like the you know test scores by Race right? like they they do differ by Race but that doesn't mean that there aren't. A lot of individuals inside of those groups that sort of break the Generalizations. So.
[27:08] Mike: There's also the fact that you're going to ah subjectively classify the sexual experience as better if she's more attractive right? So like it. There's a yeah.
[27:16] Keith: Yeah, but if anything that would that would lessen my subjective perception of this trend I think I think it is true that in general in general ah more attractive women are less enthusiastic in bed. But.
[27:21] Mike: Oh and yours oh go on.
[27:30] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[27:33] Keith: Not always um I thought that I mean I thought this was interesting for a couple reasons. First is you hear something like this from women all the time like they meet another man and he's so much better than their partner. They can't get it out of their head and and that sort of makes sense to me I think a skillful man can. Change the sexual experience for women pretty profoundly. It can make them more comfortable or less comfortable. They can be more alpha they can you know have more experience. They can do any number of things I don't It's with.
[28:06] Mike: I Think the main thing the guy does is just tries to get her to have an orgasm but go on like actually like actually like participates right and knowledgeable. Yeah.
[28:13] Keith: Well sure they can be more interested in her pleasure or not right? like?? Um, yeah I was I was talking to someone the other day who's um, partner was with someone for a long time and he never went down on her and she's now dating And. Ah, recognizing that like most men will actually go down on her and she's sort of amazed by this you know New Leaf. She's turned over so to speak? Um, but okay, but there's only so much that like okay.
[28:40] Mike: Um, who.
[28:49] Keith: If you perceive that your female partner is very lazy in bed aren't there various things that you can do to amp things up like you can change positions or ask her to do different things I mean.
[29:01] Mike: Well, the way he actually made it sound like she's sort of sleepy not just lazy like she she actually is just like kind of narcoleptic during sex and so in in that situation I think it's I think it's a it's somewhat euphemistic for. She's just not that into it.
[29:10] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[29:17] Keith: Yeah, yeah, maybe that's maybe that's why they opened it up.
[29:21] Mike: Um, she's not that yeah I mean he could ah there I think there is a limit. There's a so pretty hard limit to the set of things you can do in that situation If you have somebody who's just not enthusiastic.
[29:31] Keith: Yeah, right.
[29:36] Mike: But yeah, what as a guy it's and it's and it's not yeah I mean like it's not going to be fun for the guy Etct Cetera etc. Um, but he may be running into this I mean has this has this to the extent that you've witnessed a trend here. You said you have even in the face of the more attractive woman probably amping up your experience. It sounds like.. There's enough of a trend that it kind of overcomes that has that does that change your the kind of your interest level and different attractiveness of women like would you consider lowering Why why? not.
[29:57] Keith: Is.
[30:06] Keith: No no because I have a lizard brain I've been through this before like I think and I'm embarrassed to say this. But yeah, if there was like a nine point seven and a nine point five and the nine point seven was like a nazi and.
[30:13] Mike: Oh yeah.
[30:25] Keith: You know, bragged about never using condoms like I think I would still choose the 9.7 because my brain is stupid.
[30:33] Mike: What is wait um, was saying that she's a nazi and brags about not using condoms. So be a negative. Oh my bad I see I see I see and you don't like Nazis. Okay, okay, no, she just yeah, she's just you know.
[30:37] Keith: Yes, sorry I was supposed to be negative because it means she probably has an Std I don't know I do not So I guess that was unclear.
[30:51] Mike: Ah, okay, so so the that's interesting to me because I would think that okay I would think that you could do something like bucket women into you know a set of quintiles or something and say look as long as they're above the Eightieth Percentile I don't care.
[31:02] Keith: I I you would think you would think maybe I would I don't know I you know I don't it's not like at any given time I have 20 different women available to me.
[31:12] Mike: I Mean ah to be fair like I suspect that the problem is that the sexual enthusiasm would also bucket. So I think that to get like the super enthusiastic woman you would have to go to sort of.
[31:25] Keith: Move.
[31:26] Mike: Fiftieth percentile I think you would have to significantly compromise on her attractiveness to actually get an effect there that would be meaningful.
[31:31] Keith: Maybe I should experiment with that but like why would I when I have people available to me that aren't in that quintile.
[31:40] Mike: Oh because there might be something there might be something that the woman could do sexually that would just like be a lot better that would really yeah.
[31:47] Keith: Yeah, it might be something that would make it worse like me not getting aroused.
[31:54] Mike: That's true. Well, that's yeah, that's the this is the great. Ah, the great debate in life. Ah, but but yeah I think the um ah I think it's unlikely I think your original point that the man has much more control over this is basically on point that.
[31:57] Keith: Ah, right.
[32:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
[32:08] Mike: There There aren't that many things the woman can do although being enthusiastic and interested and so forth as it matters.
[32:11] Keith: Enthusiasm definitely matters like if it's not not that I've ever had this experience but I can imagine it not being fun having sex with someone who doesn't want to be there of course not Mike.
[32:23] Mike: You've never had that experience. Okay, well I mean that if the but but the yeah and the the higher status if higher your relative status in her perception. They hire her enthusiasm which makes sense. So yeah.
[32:34] Keith: Yeah I mean yeah.
[32:38] Mike: But then I mean there could be a level where you start feeling taken advantage of right I mean you're It's like you're going to buy a car and the this the the dealer's too too happy. You're like I don't I don't want to buy this car anymore right? So it's like that right? I mean if the woman is really happy. You're like why are you? You should be a little bit. You muted about this I mean i'mm like when.
[32:42] Keith: Um.
[32:51] Keith: Right.
[32:57] Mike: Get into bed I'm the guy I'm supposed to be winning here supposed to be. It's my need That's being met here more than yours.
[33:03] Keith: It is a little bit actually a lot bit for me unattractive when someone is overly available but I mean I think that's just natural and and it's a little bit of a pain actually especially when like you've been with a partner for a while.
[33:11] Mike: There we go? yeah.
[33:22] Keith: And they're like occasionally initiating right? like that should be good but normal and I sometimes don't respond well to it.
[33:27] Mike: I Think that's true about like sort of I think that's true about like kink stuff too I Just emotionally for me like when we've talked to people or encountered content where the woman is clearly super into the kink. Whatever it is that makes it that immediately makes it less compelling to me like.
[33:40] Keith: Yeah.
[33:45] Mike: Ah, guy who's going to aggressively pursue like anal sex. Ah I suspect in many cases maybe most cases What the guy wants is a woman who's a little bit unsure about it if the woman's just like oh sure, let me lube it up. He's like oh well then I don't want to.
[33:48] Keith: Ah.
[33:57] Keith: Um, yeah, right? Yeah, it's the it's the yeah, the coercion is a little bit hot.
[34:03] Mike: Yeah, and like he wants to he wants. He wants her to like be overcome by some new experience that he's I don't know some some man wants to be like a pioneer or something.
[34:12] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, think gets into some sticky issues but let's move climb. Um all right. This person says my boyfriend only comes like 30% of the time this is a 28 year old man 27 year old woman.
[34:18] Mike: For sure.
[34:25] Mike: Her.
[34:30] Keith: Um, sort of getting annoyed our sessions can last anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes I'd say 10 minutes average now Mike we've talked before about how people are often bad at reporting amount of timing. But that's what she says he'll put me.
[34:39] Mike: People I think you I think you are more skeptical of women than men right? This is sort of a.
[34:44] Keith: Yeah I mean we've had a lot of topics over the last couple months where women are like oh we have sex for an hour. It's like an hour I don't think think so right right.
[34:50] Mike: All right? Well, it's like the thing where a women on the sex suburb always think their guy has like a nine inch penis and it's like look you realize that's like 1 one basis point of men if that have that? yeah no kind right.
[35:02] Keith: Right point point one percent right? Um, he'll put me in a bunch of different positions and pound me roughly and fast each time often to the point of me being sore and yet he won't come from it. He'll give up and say things like yeah I can't come tonight but that was great.
[35:14] Mike: Don't go.
[35:19] Keith: Feel like used and ugly afterward strange. She feels used because he's not coming Anyway, she says what is the deal getting annoyed and hesitant to have sex with him when he uses me that roughly hard and for that long but he doesn't even orgasm from it. What is the point. By the way I never orgasm from Sex. But that's because I require clilutoral stimulation and and I'm fine with not orgasming sex still feels really good for me. Maybe it's hypocritical but I feel like anatomically it's more normal for guys to orgasm for penetration than girls and we got a real genius here. So I feel like the not orgasming thing is more unusual for him than me.
[35:48] Mike: Now.
[35:54] Keith: Ah, she's right. She's definitely right? That men not orgasming from P I V is unusual. Ah so I'm guessing he has some sort of death grip here right? like he's but the reason why I brought this up is.
[36:01] Mike: Um, right.
[36:06] Mike: Probably.
[36:12] Keith: How can he tolerate this status quo like why is he interested in sex if he's not even nutting from it.
[36:20] Mike: I Think it's sort of I mean it's sort of a bold move what he's doing it reminds me of like ah I feel like I was at the zoo once and I mean you know when you go to the primate exhibit. You often see various displays like this and or you know just sexual displays and I remember seeing like a gorilla.
[36:29] Keith: Yeah, reliably Yeah yeah.
[36:36] Mike: Do what appeared to be this where he just sort of like he gave the woman the female like 30 strokes and then just took off. He's like yeah.
[36:41] Keith: How can you be sure. The Gorilla didn't didn't come know my God Maybe I don't know but like it he coming if he's coming inside of her like how do you? Okay, you feel like you could recognize the telltale Gorilla signs.
[36:47] Mike: Have you seen a gorilla come? Oh. It's It's pretty obvious I mean they yeah they're bought I mean pretty I mean like I've I've seen Ah I'm not sure how many different species of animals I've seen come. Ah, a lot. Um and generally the male behaves sort of how you expect the male to behave some kind of like shuddering some kind of like weird sounds and stuff and like so yeah, like you would. It's likely you would know if he did. Yeah, he's just given her some strokes and then takes off.
[37:11] Keith: Okay, ok, all right? So you're you're 85% sure the gorilla is just for for the sport of it.
[37:25] Mike: And I can sort of I sort of applaud that on some levels. This is not why this guy's doing it Obviously he's I hear you but you but to your point like what's what's What's what's his motivation that if he's not he he doesn't know he doesn't know in advance if he's going to be able to come. That's what's going on right.
[37:32] Keith: Um, yeah.
[37:37] Keith: Sure but if 70% of the time that I masturbated I didn't come I think I would masturbate substantially less I don't think I would master I don't think I would masturbate more to make up the difference I don't know i.
[37:46] Mike: Do you do you think you would get this. Do you think you get to 0 look what what failure rate. Do you think it would take you to 0
[37:56] Keith: I Don't know. Yeah,, that's the question I'm not sure it might it might it would just be discouraging so often.
[38:00] Mike: I think that might I think 70% failure right? might make might take me to 0 and just like ah fuck this and I suspect that in that situation. The 30% wouldn't be would require like a lot of determination grit maybe physical grit. You know some kind of sandpaper.
[38:18] Keith: Right? Get that friction up.
[38:20] Mike: Ah, but really working it. Yeah, you'd have to just sort of yeah would be really not great. So you'd be asking you. You'd be starting to think what's wrong with me like what you go to the doctor. Yeah I mean honestly going to the doctor might be a good move in that situation.
[38:24] Keith: Are.
[38:37] Keith: Um, yeah I don't I can't imagine what either of these people's motivations to have sex is like she's leaving discouraged and feeling used I don't know feeling used is the right like I guess he's sort of using her. But.
[38:51] Mike: Well, the Gorilla analogy is on point there like if she feels like that female Gorilla I would get it like she's like it depends on what he does he it sounds like he basically just wipes it off puts it back in his pants and takes off.
[38:57] Keith: Okay, yeah, but.
[39:04] Keith: Yeah, but by means of I don't know example like would you rather he come c o m e and you know, ah fuck you for 20 minutes and then orgasm. Or would you rather him fuck you for 20 minutes and not orgasm like which which would make you feel more quote unquote used why.
[39:24] Mike: Um, well the the no orgasm for sure I can I can actually I can I can ideate about this I mean imagine so in 1 case, you're into receptive anal sex. In 1 case, he's fucking you up the ass and then he just stops because it's like he didn't. What like why did why even start it like why did you? why? Why did I have to lube up my anus. Why did we have to go through this like you're not well there. Yeah there's that too I mean whatever, whatever preparation had to happen like I'm I've I sort of got up for this activity and yeah, like it's it feels like.
[39:43] Keith: Why did I have to not eat food for the last forty eight hours right
[39:58] Mike: Sort of performative Pro Performa Whatever ah do you don't you that that's not like obvious let's okay, let's say that you had a woman that orgasmed really like to sort of get on top and you know put your penis inside of her and grind on you.
[40:03] Keith: Um.
[40:16] Mike: Get an orgasm and like she does that and then it just 70% of the time she's like ah and just gets off. You'd be like what you be sort of irritating you like what? why? what? you know and also you don't get to orgasm. You're just like oh.
[40:23] Keith: Yeah, okay yeah I guess that makes sense I don't think I could really have I could imagine it but I don't often have the experience of feeling used right? like if.
[40:39] Mike: Sure.
[40:41] Keith: If a woman is using my body for her sexual pleasure like I'm delighted in basically all circumstances.
[40:48] Mike: Ah, yeah, it's yeah, that's true. That's true like the guy of the guy would not Well I mean if it okay but if you that's because women generally are sort of socially reasonable and get you off in the encounter. Let's say that she didn't do that and she's so she just she just takes off or like.
[40:58] Keith: Natural.
[41:06] Mike: Yeah, it's like okay you can beat off now or whatever. That's how I feel at the end of a massage by the way like just a normal massage. You're always like why where's my where's my hand job.
[41:08] Keith: I'm right? Yeah I mean.
[41:16] Keith: Ah, do you? How often do you get massages like in your life have have you had more than 20 Yeah I've I've had a zillion in my life because you know I go to these countries and they're really and inexpensive and it's sort of interesting to get massages I bet I've had 200 that sounds about right.
[41:18] Mike: Not often. No, but.
[41:28] Mike: You've had a zillion can you quantify that more like a 200 okay so 200 you must have had a situation out of 200 where a hand job was offered and what what did you do.
[41:35] Keith: Yeah.
[41:40] Keith: Yeah, only twice? um and one of them I'm not I can't even remember while well the other one I remember quite well I got a I got a couples massage with Alissa um like last year or two years ago and ah.
[41:48] Mike: Now cheese.
[41:56] Keith: There was ah where were we we were in we were in Eastern Europe somewhere like I don't know rope now it wasn't explicit like that but they kept.
[42:04] Mike: Um, and a hand job was offered to you with ah your partner in the room. Okay.
[42:14] Keith: Like toward the end of the massage they kept like going down my my waist towards my cock and like up my legs towards my cock and would like sort of linger and I felt like there was like an invitation to sort of like lean in um and then yeah and I talked to Alyssa.
[42:22] Mike: Okay.
[42:27] Mike: Um, with your partner there in the room. Okay.
[42:33] Keith: After and she said that her massuse was sort of doing the same thing now you could make an argument that that is just how they end their massages but it felt I've never felt anything nearly like that before. Um.
[42:47] Mike: Okay, so typically so actually your experience is that the hand job is not typically on offer which is wrong. You just so something. There's something you're dooming in the situation that evades.
[42:58] Keith: I agree I mean I'm not looking for a happy ending and so ah if I if I were I would behave differently.
[43:03] Mike: Even if it was like a big even if it was a big buff guy really attractive guy. He wouldn't ok huh Why? not even if it was legal.
[43:12] Keith: Ah, yeah, definitely not from a man. But yeah, even from woman I'm just not I don't I don't know I don't think the legality of it bothers me. It's the depravity of it that bothers me.
[43:27] Mike: Okay, now I don't understand that at all like I think if it was legal I Think to me, it's just the legal thing like it's It's obviously the natural thing to have happened particularly if it's like an attractive woman like who care why is it so depraved who gives a shit like I mean you go to the doctor and they stick things up your butt.
[43:41] Keith: Yeah I I'm not going to make an argument that it's actually depraved I'm just making an argument that it makes me feel like there's some cultural norm that is erecting a guardrail there that it's is not actually reasonable or rational.
[43:45] Mike: No path.
[43:51] Mike: Yeah, in the Us. But that's yeah, it's encoded in the law and it's like there. You know it's not on the menu. But if it was on the menu. It's like okay I mean I assume they wash their hands and we've talked about this before like I think I think it should be on the menu I think it's like a very reasonable.
[44:03] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[44:08] Mike: Serviced offer dudes and it's it's not ah, properly set up. It's not a problem.
[44:13] Keith: Right? Yeah I I don't know why I am not in the mood for in the mood in the market for happy endings. Maybe I should reconsider that. Yeah, all right? This person says Condom stuck inside me.
[44:25] Mike: Figure that out.
[44:33] Keith: So I had a really drunken hookup with this guy and I wasn't wet down there at all because by then I wasn't really into it. It wasn't sexual assault or anything I just got in my head and wasn't feeling it so I wasn't turned on anymore. The condom broke inside of me but I wasn't aware and he never told me that's odd.
[44:33] Mike: Um, no.
[44:52] Keith: About to go on my period and the very next morning I got it and it was the most excruciating period I ever had the cramps were so bad I thought I was dying I'm sorry listeners about this but there's a there's a reason I never had a period this bad I like normal I like normal oh I like normal I use tampons and change them out. But. Was still a bad one I don't know why she needs to clarify that she used stampons as usual I didn't think too much of why my cramps and vagina hurt so badly because I figured it was just a really rough one and maybe having dryer sex made it worse three days later here it comes pull a tampon out and a piece of what looked like part of a condom was stuck to it I confront the guy and he told me and he told me the condom broke but he didn't think to tell me oh boy I'm Livid and upset and embarrassed because I find this out at work and I'm unsure if there's other pieces in there that got shoved up there because of.
[45:35] Mike: There we go.
[45:47] Keith: Tampons and I still feel very often crampy and not sure if my vagina is actually clear What do I do I'm afraid I'm going to get at at least an infection from this so she adds an edit later. She went to planned Parenthood and they don't do exams like that because. You even do it. You'd have to go up there with like a camera or like the the ah gynecologists fingers or something. So anyway, they they don't do that.
[46:13] Mike: Well no, you can you can use a speculum and just look you don't It's not that you mean just look in her vagina to see if there's a piece of rubber in there. Yeah yeah, if you're curious how that works you can actually find video I mean anybody can find videos online of like what.
[46:21] Keith: Oh I see so speculum like props it open and then you go in there with like a dentist mirror or something. Um, gynecology.
[46:32] Mike: How it how? yeah like what? what? what they do and what it looks like it's sort of a reasonable thing to know about. But yeah.
[46:37] Keith: Huh Yeah I don't know that feels like do you feel comfortable like looking carefully into your partners's mouth. Yeah I'm not interested I don't need to I don't need to get all.
[46:46] Mike: Yeah I don't care. That's interesting. Yeah, it does.
[46:55] Keith: All in there. Um, but anyway um, how could a condom like if a condom breaks it doesn't like dissolve it like sort of stays in one piece. It just gets torn in my experience anyway.
[47:10] Mike: Yeah I've I mean I've had this I've had this experience where a piece tears off. It's an interesting question I mean I Yeah yeah instead of it breaking. Yeah I've had that experience. Um, ah yeah I mean it.
[47:14] Keith: A piece a piece tore tore off though in it in it. It detached it detached from the rest of the condom Interesting. Okay.
[47:26] Mike: I Don't know you can be having sex right? Yeah I'm not exactly sure what it's it's It's certainly her being dry. That's the problem right? yeah.
[47:29] Keith: Like like imagine. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that I mean I think we've talked about this but it was a long time ago. Um, the experience of having a condom broke break. And yeah, it's usually when there's some undue a normal unusual amount of friction. Um, and it you know gets.
[47:43] Mike: That's right. Well I mean I think that like the the the yeah in the thing she said I think there's like an interesting topic around this thing where she says she's oh I was just in my head. It's like I don't know there's something that sits weirdly with me a little bit. She's like okay wasn't a sexual assault agreed. There.
[47:46] Keith: Caught on something or who knows.
[48:04] Mike: But it's like yeah well no the mentality of that's a little odd to me right.
[48:06] Keith: Ah, boy yeah I mean Mike this this can get like really kind of dangerous really quickly. But yeah, like she probably decided that you know if she had her druthers. She would not have been having sex right? then but she'd invited him back. They had started. She.
[48:21] Mike: I Don't think that women are doing I don't think women are doing I don't think women are doing anyone in any favors by doing that I don't think they're doing that they I think they often think that they're doing the guy a favor I don't think that's right I think the guy I do think the guy would like to nut that's true. But I think that he would be but I think in.
[48:24] Keith: Maybe she'd helped badly.
[48:33] Keith: Um, yeah.
[48:40] Mike: Almost all situations. The guy would be happier saying oh okay, you don't let let's just find something that's pretty chill that you are cool with doing and yeah anyway that it's just I yeah I don't I don't think that like the yeah if the guy finds out about that. He's gonna be like oh why didn't you tell me in most cases of course there' are going to be some guys who are dicks about it or.
[48:54] Keith: Right? What's your there's yeah, there's psychopaths. But yeah.
[48:59] Mike: Only one have PIV or whatever sure, but this guy. Okay, this guy is this other issue which yeah and I actually knew somebody I think I've mentioned this once a long time ago on the podcast who had this happen a woman who she had a partner and he claimed he didn't feel it when it broke because the other issue here is that he is he impri he.
[49:13] Keith: Yeah.
[49:19] Mike: He cream pied her let's call it right and without her knowledge and I remember talking to this friend Female friend mine a long time ago and I was like I told her that he definitely knew that there's no way he didn't know when the condom broke you can feel. It's quite. Ah.
[49:19] Keith: Um, yeah.
[49:35] Keith: Me think about this I mean at the very least when you pull your dick out you're going to notice right? I can imagine I could imagine in a pitch black dark room.
[49:39] Mike: And my experience is quite obvious.
[49:43] Mike: Oh yeah, there's that too. There's that too. But I mean my experience is like you feel the different sensation.
[49:54] Keith: You could pull it out like if if you couldn't if you didn't have a single photon of light you could like pull it out and like maybe not recognize that the wetness on the outside of the condom is semen versus you know the lubricant that that starts on the condom and whatever the.
[50:10] Mike: Um, but wouldn't you agree with me that you would feel it just from I mean there's going to be a part of your penis probably the head that's exposed in her vagina when you're having sex and you're going to be like oh something's different like you'll know.
[50:12] Keith: Lubrication The woman provides.
[50:18] Keith: That's exposed to the air.
[50:24] Keith: Yeah I think both I think so there could be a timing issue like if it happens right? as you're nutting I don't know maybe if you're very drunk and desensitized a little bit I look I feel like this is one of those things that's like ah like a 1 in 1000 thing but that means that.
[50:25] Mike: Within 1 stroke in my view.
[50:31] Mike: So 1 question more.
[50:43] Keith: 99.9 percent of the time. The man knows like it's possible. He couldn't know but but but much more likely he's lying.
[50:44] Mike: Yeah, so 1 question I would have right 1 question I would have about this situation is and I I don't actually have like the medical I mean look nobody could know this exactly but I would wonder. She's thinking of course oh the the latex inside of me caused these cramps. That's not what I would wonder I would wonder if she got pregnant right? like if she if she had yeah because it we I mean they look there. Yeah if like. So yeah, basically the fit's it's not related to that. It's related to the semen. But you know she got pregnant slash like there's some some reaction associated with that that caused her to have a heavier period because basically yeah, he ejaculated inside of her I don't think it's very likely that it's caused by the latex I mean latex is pretty inert um sure it could get like an infection in it. Sorry I could get like bacteria lodged in it. but but. but
[51:25] Keith: Oh I see.
[51:38] Mike: Usually when you hear about that It takes a lot longer. She had tampons up there. So like that you already have something up there kind of statically. Um, so I would I think I would think be a little more likely and also cramping is happening in your uterus right? It's not external to the uterus. So like it's not.
[51:43] Keith: Yeah.
[51:55] Mike: It doesn't totally make sense to me. You know it's not impossible, but it's a little strange to me that the condom I suspect if you took a hundred women out of them stuff pieces of latex up their vaginas. It wouldn't change their cramping.
[51:57] Keith: Ha.
[52:04] Keith: Most people don't menstruate. Most people don't ovulate that close to the beginning of their menstrual cycle.
[52:11] Mike: Agreed Oh great. Yeah great. So it could be something about like maybe you know I mean there there are various substances and semen Blah Blah Blah Blah blah like it could be Yeah, so so maybe not you know or maybe maybe the egg got fertilized but like it was too late in the cycle to actually um, implant.
[52:20] Keith: Um, yeah.
[52:29] Mike: But then there is some kind of blah blah blah that happens and you get more cramps like these these these these explanations make a little more sense to me about whatever sure.
[52:32] Keith: Yeah, yeah, all right I think we have time for 1 more topic. Um, this person says am I wrong to desire that my wife do things with me she did with her earlier partners a 50 year old man married to my 46 year old wife for 22 years my wife is the only sexual partner I have ever had while dating my wife while dating my wife told me a lot of details about her previous sex life including some specifics of giving guys oral dating my wife. My wife went down on me very briefly a few times but never more than a couple minutes and ever to climax get enough for me to know I enjoy it. Brutal. We went through marriage counseling a few years ago for other issues when the counselor asked if we wanted to discuss sex. She cut it off immediately I wanted to but she didn't since we've been since we've been married. My wife has brought me to climax twice orally outside of that there have been a handful of time she has gone more than a couple minutes. Otherwise at most it's a twenty second teas makes me angry and frustrated but she seems to think it's funny. She's even promised oral sex or other big favors only to either just give me a short couple of minutes or or nothing at all say the least that frustrates an era takes the living hell out of me current sex life is not good for me I perform moral sex a lot on her I've also but. But toys to use on her what she really loves for me all she does is say hop on and basically use her as a whole I went more but she has 0 desire. It's turned into into me not wanting to do much because I know I'll work hard for little reward other than planned humping ah bland.
[53:57] Mike: Um, other than planned planned humping oh Bland hoping. Okay I mean huming's not that bad but okay, plant bland humping. It's good.
[54:02] Keith: Land. Yeah yeah, ah he goes on about like going to the grocery store and seeing women and imagining banging them. Um.
[54:13] Mike: I mean I have a real problem with this therapist I don't think I think if I I would probably be a bad therapist. But and I have no I'm I'm not interested in people enough to want to do that. But I don't think I think that it's pretty questionable when when. Yeah I mean if you're if you're counseling people have been married twenty years. It's very reasonable to have sex be 1 of the topics and when one person shuts it down I think the therapist is obligated basically to say like look okay, you can always fire me as your therapist but like I'm a little reluctant to like even continue doing this if you're just going to shut down this really important topic.
[54:33] Keith: Yeah, yeah, no shit I know yeah.
[54:45] Keith: Right? right? It's like you can lie to your therapist or you can embargo the obvious topics that need to be discussed. But what's the point right? like yes.
[54:57] Mike: It's really odd and in the therapist I mean at least at a minimum should say to you hey that you're making a in my professional judgment. This is a big mistake I'm not saying what you should feel or think any of that I'm just saying we should discuss this. That's it. Yeah.
[55:08] Keith: Yeah, we've to. We've discussed this a little bit offline but ah yeah I think there's a whole array of therapists out there that are basically practicing malpractice right? They they they're just trying to. They're more interested in making sure that they keep their customers than trying to help their customers.
[55:25] Mike: Oh well, yeah you and I talked about this like last week like the ah the these the evidence suggests that only a very narrow set of therapies modalities are even effective. They're that's very difficult to write.
[55:35] Keith: Right? If you yeah if you measure reported happiness before and after and that kind of stuff. Yeah.
[55:41] Mike: And they typically they they typically or like the inventories of depression anxiety and so on and so forth they they typically are the modalities that are short short duration and are much more teaching people skills life skills the ones where they sit and listen to you and just talk to you Honestly, probably don't do anything like yeah you.
[55:57] Keith: Ah, hot take Mike yeah i.
[56:00] Mike: You'd be better off going and exercising in almost all cases. Um you know I mean like yeah I mean that being but but teaching you skills a therapist Absolutely could say to a husband and wife look like sex is important. You need to communicate about it and like here's some tools and that would be very valuable but like just saying like okay shut it down.
[56:10] Keith: Um, yeah.
[56:19] Keith: Well, she doesn't want to talk about sex. So let's move on like ah tell me about your mother. Yeah I mean it's that's well ok, there's 2 aspects here that I think are interesting. The first is is.
[56:19] Mike: Um.
[56:24] Mike: He's fixated on getting a blow here I mean I sort of get it like I yeah.
[56:35] Keith: And we've discussed this a bit in the past, but it's been a while like is wanting a blowjob a reasonable you know, make or break thing like I think most people would say wanting Anal is not a reasonable make or break thing. But I think most people would say that wanting PiV and wanting a blowjob is a reasonable. Make or break thing.
[56:53] Mike: I'm skeptical that anal in long-term relationships unless the woman wants it that anal is like a really common thing to do a lot unless the woman like some women really enjoy it and that's different I think for most men It's just not actually it's only better in a taboo sense and then.
[57:03] Keith: Right.
[57:10] Mike: You're in a long term relationship. It's not going to be taboo anymore. So the guy's just going to stop being interested. Yeah, but orals not like that.
[57:14] Keith: I agree I agree. But yeah I mean there's various. No, it's not um, but okay, so thing one is that you know he probably is within his quote unquote rights to be upset about this and then thing two is. He knows that she's done it enthusiastically with past partners like that is the real brutality here is that.
[57:36] Mike: Yeah, it could just be something I mean he he could just have like ah some problem with his ah semen ah flavor. No the flavor. No no, he could be Yeah, it could be hygiene I mean but there there are things like yeah I mean like this calls for this absolutely calls for a conversation. It's like what is the.
[57:40] Keith: His smegma. Yeah.
[57:52] Mike: Like yeah for example, if it's the semen. Okay well this he could nut elsewhere like but you still could perform this for a period of time is it like I think in most most men the the pre-ejaculate fluid isn't not particularly flavorful. So then you typically wouldn't have an issue there. Um.
[58:06] Keith: Ah, yeah, Mike yeah so I agree with you but my guess here is after 22 years she just basically disgusted by him and that's wanting like even having sex is sort of a chore.
[58:11] Mike: Yeah.
[58:15] Mike: Oh wow.
[58:22] Mike: Interesting.
[58:24] Keith: And adding adding that like he's desperate for her to go down on her is just a total nonstarter.
[58:28] Mike: Do you think that's likely to be that he's grown fat ugly something like that or like a personality. Both.
[58:34] Keith: Um I don't know. Ah you know for me, my general trend is I grow less interested in partners. The longer I am together with him and so that feels normal to me but my my understanding is that that is not necessarily normal. Some people are like me but lots of people aren't like me. And so it's a little bit hard for me to speculate about why she doesn't have interest in him but it just sounds to me like what do you mean.
[58:58] Mike: You You know that that's not actually how you are right? It's not this is not a This is not a this is not I'm just going to say that I strongly suspect that god.
[59:08] Keith: We we we have a couple minutes here. Mike.
[59:17] Mike: I Strongly we're at the end of the show. So it's okay probably I strongly suspect that this is this is a normal thing that guys experience but it's sort of Iq loaded meaning that for every guy There's a bar and if the woman is above the bar.
[59:18] Keith: Ah, yeah, they are.
[59:30] Mike: Then his ah enjoyment of being with them can go up over time and if she's below the bar it goes down overtime and the reason why is because if she's stupid or not that smart. She's going to be boring, but if she is above that bar over time you're going to like increase your appreciation. She's going to learn things you're going to talk have good conversations all the sort of stuff and you just have a higher bar.
[59:38] Keith: Are.
[59:47] Mike: For that than most people. But I do not believe that it's likely that like a really really smart woman. You'd be like oh yeah, I'm less and less attracted to you I think that's unlikely I think like you'd be like oh yeah.
[59:55] Keith: Okay, so so I just need to date a supermodel Rocket scientist and everything will be solved.
[01:00:02] Mike: I seriously doubt the supermodel part matters that much it's in Rocket I know I'm not sure what your bar is a rocket scientist I don't know but like I think that you know there people obviously people are good at various different fields. But like I think that I think there is an iq bar there like when you if if somebody isn't smart enough. They don't read. They don't.
[01:00:15] Keith: Right? ah.
[01:00:21] Keith: Okay, the okay I mean your general hypothesis is that over time I lose respect for my partners.
[01:00:21] Mike: Yeah I think that that's more that I think than yeah. Yeah, and that makes sense I think I think I think any guy would do that if the partner was below some threshold and that threshold's going to depend on the guy's his own intelligence level his own sort of interest in reading and learning and stuff like that. But I think it ultimately is like a mental phenomenon.
[01:00:41] Keith: Um, yeah.
[01:00:46] Mike: And I think that men generally the reason I don't think the supermodel thing carries weight is that there are just enormous numbers of men who stay married to their wives and happily so as the wife ages. So I just don't think and age definitely decreases your physical attractiveness. So I don't think I think it's implausible.
[01:00:58] Keith: Yeah.
[01:01:03] Mike: That there'd be this person out there who's like well there is Leonardo Dicaprio but I think in general guys can overcome that.
[01:01:06] Keith: Well, and also Mike I think also the vast majority or I don't know about the vast majority. Definitely a large percentage of marriages become effectively sexless after some number of decades.
[01:01:25] Mike: Well decades a long time I mean when you're 70 or eighty sure that then I then I'm a hundred percent sure that's true. Um.
[01:01:27] Keith: Um, it is.
[01:01:30] Keith: What percent I mean I don't know. Yeah, we're out of time here. But yeah, like what percentage of people who got married in their twenty s Do you think are having sex more than twice a month in their fifty s.
[01:01:46] Keith: That sounds about right and that's not great.
[01:01:46] Mike: Pi Twenty Twenty Yeah, ah yeah I mean I think that I ah I mean you have to it might be better in a situation if you were like for example with people exercise or healthy.
[01:02:00] Keith: Yeah I see. Yeah yeah, if you if you put some filters on there, you might get it up to like 40 or something. Yeah.
[01:02:03] Mike: Like there's just like basic like health things that play a role there.
[01:02:09] Mike: Like drug use alcoholism there the other I mean but but it's a fair point. It's a fair point I just I Just think that like I Just the main point I wanted to make was that thing of like it's I don't I think you're normal I think you're normal like you're you're saying oh I'm this abnormal thing and I'm like I don't think I think everybody's like that you just. Ah.
[01:02:28] Mike: Ah, have a really high bar for who you would consider interesting and so it's very common for people to sort of unfortunately go down that Ski slope instead of up the Ski lift but there are I'm I would be shocked if there weren't people out there that.
[01:02:40] Keith: Um.
[01:02:44] Mike: Where you'd be like oh wow you you're actually getting more interesting like we discuss things and like you you say cool things and I think that's possible for you because it seems to be possible for other people. So I think.
[01:02:48] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, all right? Well I'm going to process that a little bit and that will do it for this episode of your mileage may Vary. We like feedback. Please give us some.. It's been a while since we've gotten some any anything hilarious So we need our listeners to yes, hope much. Ah, yeah, So if you have any feedback hit us Up. We pay $10 for any feedback, no questions Asked. So just give us your benmo paypal.
[01:03:12] Mike: You've just been getting inbound interview requests. That's all I mean.
[01:03:24] Keith: Ah, you can also ask us questions if you want us to not answer them on the air. Let us know the place to do both of those things is YMMvPod at gmail.com um yeah thanks for listening. We appreciate your listenership and we look forward to catching you next week on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 129: Barbie Heteronormative? Cum Reliability Thresholds, Stuck Condoms, Blow Refusals, Hot Exercise Videos

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