Your Mileage May Vary: Hotwife Hell, Male Oral Anxiety, Saving Used Condoms, Chris Hansen Enters The Podcast

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we are going to talk about entrapping pedophiles. The incel community how to deal with men who won't eat pussy and more. And Keith my co-host is Mike how's it going Mike you were in charge of our banter topics today. So where shall we begin.
[00:21] Mike: It's going pretty well.
[00:28] Mike: I I didn't know I was totally in charge. Okay, well I've been working out some material about um this man Chris Hansen with the tv show to catch a predator. Are you familiar with this.
[00:38] Keith: I am not sure I've ever seen the show I am very familiar with what the premise of the show was and I I've seen clips of the ah well yeah, maybe I should.
[00:52] Mike: Sure sure.
[00:52] Keith: Maybe I should try to explain what the premise was and then you can you can clean it up if I'm wrong. Okay, so they would try to entrap pedophiles and they would go into some online chat room and pretend to be you know a fifteen year old or whatever and then the 15 year old would invite. The person they're trying to entrap over and he comes over and the girls there initially and then she goes to a back room and then the like production staff comes out and Chris Hansen who is the like host of the show would would say something like. Oh you're you're in big trouble man or or whatever you you had some line I don't remember what it was.
[01:27] Mike: Right? right? That's more or less right? and I mean the way that they would I don't know if you said this but the way that they would get there. Let's see they would have a decoy which would typically be a young girl maybe 1415
[01:41] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[01:43] Mike: In some cases. It would be a boy right? If they're if they're but it's always I think I don't want to say always in every episode I've encountered. It's a man who's being what's the right word being captured being in. Okay, if I Entraps has a certain legal meaning that was trying to avoid but okay, um, and.
[01:55] Keith: Entrapped and trapped.
[02:02] Mike: They ah yeah, they have this decoy they meet online that's important. It's unclear I mean I think across the years where they meet them online is changed I'm I'm assuming now it's like tinder or something sure.
[02:11] Keith: So sure. Yeah, they started on Aol chat rooms and then yeah.
[02:18] Mike: Sure and then the guy will drive sometimes some long distance to this person's house show up and then it's as you describe. So um I came to learn that this show I mean this show is immensely popular and Chris Hansen's still kicking around even after I it's not on network tv but he has. He's basically created.
[02:29] Keith: Wait is his show still on.
[02:37] Mike: Looked to me like his own network built around this show and there are episodes. That's right and there are new ish episodes available on Youtube and I wanted to talk about an episode that I saw because I was curious about the state of the art in this just to see where it's it's at so he.
[02:42] Keith: Pedophilia the Antipedophilia network.
[02:53] Keith: Of.
[02:56] Mike: They lured so that they they lured somebody. It was a young man who's maybe 25 this man, let me tell you his story when he was 18 He was a senior in high school in Michigan he had sex with his 15 year old girlfriend who was probably a freshman sophomore.
[03:06] Keith: Um, yeah, okay.
[03:16] Keith: Okay, now I am I'm aware of something called Romeo and Juliet laws which makes ah it legal for people who are within a certain age of each other to sleep with minors. So.
[03:16] Mike: Maybe yes.
[03:32] Keith: In that case he was 18 She was 15 but it was in some states. Maybe maybe Michigan is included such behavior can be legal.
[03:35] Mike: So yeah, the the apparently in Michigan the capulets or whoever in charge. They're not in favor of this relationship and so this law does not it makes sense is a law right to sort of protect.
[03:43] Keith: Ah, okay.
[03:50] Mike: Whoever is the older party because their age is so close. It's not a 45 year old having sex with a fifteen year old. It's an 18 year old.
[03:53] Keith: Well and then any any people who are dating in their eighteenth year unless their birthdays were that on the exact same day. There would always be a window of illegality.
[04:07] Mike: Agreed it's it's somewhat ridiculous. Let me see I guess when I was in high school I would have fallen I would have been the victim I was 17 and had sex with an 18 year old girlfriend. Um, that's a good question. It's good question.
[04:15] Keith: Um, what's the statute of limitations in California. Maybe you can go clos some money from her.
[04:24] Mike: I Don't think she has any but it's a fair point fair point. Maybe I'll look into that. Yeah, so the um, let's see so we've got this So this this young man has sex with this girl.
[04:27] Keith: Ah, okay, something to look at. Do yeah there you go.
[04:41] Mike: And I'm guessing the girl's parents found out and for whatever reason got angry but that wasn't elucidated in the episode but he got sent to prison to prison and and so he was there for like I think eighteen months they said ah someone can fact check me if I get a little bits of this wrong.
[04:47] Keith: Um, okay oh.
[04:52] Keith: Okay.
[04:58] Mike: And then he was released but he was released under condition and so by the time he's released. He's like 1920 he's released under the condition that he is not to use dating apps. He is not to pursue women now this isn't right? This is a 1920 year old man who in my mind has done.
[05:01] Keith: Um, yeah.
[05:09] Keith: That's what are the that's one of the conditions of his parole or whatever. Okay.
[05:17] Mike: I mean I don't know all the details but it sounds like he's done nothing wrong then ah you know he's deeply confused about what how what he did was wrong. Um, then he gets trapped by to catch a predator where he um, you know starts talking to this 15 year old decoy.
[05:18] Keith: Right.
[05:34] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[05:36] Mike: That's of course problematic because he's now like 25 years old he comes in and and he's basically like he didn't look like the sharpest bull by I compared him to ah Lenny from of mice and men like kind of not not that he just seemed like a little weak in the in the head area. Um, and. Yeah I mean they basically just arrest him again and of course the police come and rough him up and like you know Chris Hansen's moralizing to him and I was thinking about it and I thought to myself this and I feel this way every time I watch this show I think this show is basically taking I don't actually believe.
[06:05] Keith: Okay, be careful here.
[06:16] Mike: I'm I'm skeptical put it that way I'm skeptical that there are any 15 year old girls effectively on the internet looking for guys like this other than the decoys of this tv show meaning it's sort of a victimless crime like they're not and they owe and by the way they had this long interview after the episode with.
[06:26] Keith: Ah.
[06:34] Mike: Like the chief of police of this town. That's been hosting Chris Hansen talking about child child sex trafficking predators how these guys will just do it again and again all this stuff and I was like I don't actually think that's what's going on here I think it's just a pretty messed up dude because his normal sexual urges got um.
[06:38] Keith: Yeah.
[06:54] Mike: Criminalized and you know when he was 18 and now he's just messed up because he went to like adult prison at 18 for sort of not doing anything wrong and now he's just now he's just gone insane.
[07:02] Keith: Um, do you think that someone of his profile is likely to what is the word recidivate. Okay.
[07:12] Mike: I Think that's the right word. Yeah I I mean I think it's a good question I don't think that I just don't think that this is I mean sort of except that.
[07:19] Keith: It seems that he attempted to he was entrapped I get it I get it I get you're saying that in a you know world where the entrappers didn't exist. He probably. He he may want to recidivate but probably would not have been able to.
[07:37] Mike: But yeah, but my point is that I don't think that he I don't think the fact that I think that she had been 19 so this is one of my ideas if she'd been nineteen I think it would be no different. My one of my ideas is this show should be required to when they do this also have a 19 year old decoy and let the guy pick. Because I think that basically all these dudes would pick from or 18 whatever I think they would all pick the I mean I certainly would wouldn't you like? yeah you see what I'm saying like make them exactly exactly and if so if a guy had a choice if there were 2 girls talking him up.
[08:01] Keith: Oh I see it's someone showing him interest and and it's not that she's 15 It's that there's ah.
[08:14] Mike: And they were sort of the same distance away both equally sexually charged and he does pick the 15 year old fine. That's like that's different. But I really don't think the I I'd like to see the data from that experiment because I think that these guys would almost 100% pick the eighteen nineteen year old because it's not that it's just they're lonely and they in.
[08:20] Keith: I see.
[08:31] Keith: Um, yeah.
[08:32] Mike: And then it just comes down to this thing which I I really have a hard time with the moralizing about it because I mean what percentage of the male population say under say age 30 to 50 Do you think if a 20 year old. Highly attractive, luscious young woman offered them sex what percentage of the guys would just be like okay. I think it's at least 50 Oh because they're because they're guys that are they're guys that are engaged or married or have some other proclivity. They're gay guys I mean they're various stuff right.
[08:53] Keith: Why is it Not what why is it? not higher. Oh sure, but like fine. But yeah I mean if you were to say yes single heterosexual men of who are 50 how many would turn down available sex from a 20 year old and it's not many.
[09:16] Mike: It's not many rights. It's it's less than half maybe less than 10 percent I'm not sure. Um, and so this gets complicated because like okay 20 now 19 now. 18 okay, now if it's 17 and you know you know it's not a sting I think the number is going to be surprisingly high like.
[09:19] Keith: Yeah.
[09:32] Mike: It's hard for a guy because it's an artificial legal distinction that's being made and then enforced. Um, so so pretty much. Um, yeah when I watch this program I always feel like it's not really right? What they're doing to the guys I mean they they portray them sometimes they're guys that really seem pretty skeezy. Although honestly.
[09:34] Keith: Right? right.
[09:50] Keith: Okay, I mean this is a pretty is a pretty hot take here. Yeah, you're art. Yeah, you're arguing that catching Predators is unfair. Ah I think yeah.
[09:51] Mike: Everybody looks skeezy in that situation. Yeah I know.
[10:02] Mike: All through this form of entrement and I'm suggesting a slight modification of their protocol protocol that I think would make it more fair and make people. Ah you know make it seem yeah more fair.
[10:08] Keith: I Think you're right that they wouldn't find as good content that way because everyone would choose not everyone but with a rounding error of everyone would choose the legal gal.
[10:14] Mike: Um, yeah.
[10:20] Mike: Yeah, because these guys actually want to follow the law but they're like look follow the law or my dick and it's yeah gets difficult and it's always these sight of sort of Lonely often unattractive guys that don't seem like they have much going for them and you're just like look like they probably never had a woman want to have sex with them.
[10:26] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[10:39] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean the normal caveats apply here like men should not have sex with children. Um, but that's different from denying that. Um.
[10:40] Mike: Effectively.
[10:57] Keith: Yeah, people of a certain age can be physically attractive to to most men.
[11:00] Mike: What it's I feel like there's some sort of philosophical dilemma here like um if if I wanted if I wanted to figure out whether you were inclined to commit murder. It wouldn't be reasonable for me to see send put you into a situation where like that was the only option I should give you like a few different options like oh I could murder this person right? and and and what they've done.
[11:09] Keith: Um, ah.
[11:12] Keith: Right now I understand what you're saying I got it.
[11:19] Mike: And of course he has the option to just not do anything which is probably what most of their ah marks. Do they just say no I'm not meeting you because I'm not stupid. Um, but yeah, given anyway you given that other option.
[11:26] Keith: Get right.
[11:33] Mike: I think that I think they would yes it would be much less good content. They wouldn't get very many people and I actually think that like I think that's a decent like sort of I feel like that's something that like a lawyer might be able to argue in court say look this is entrapment. This isn't fair because you're not giving him a reasonable other option.
[11:46] Keith: I would be interested in what the conviction rate is it it? Yeah, it might be high because judges and juries are pretty un sympathetic to this kind of stuff.
[11:50] Mike: According to this cop it's a hundred percent
[12:02] Mike: That's the thing I mean once because the fact Pattern looks very damning for the guy and there's very little sympathy and so I was I was talking with with a friend of the show about this and his argument was he he's like look this is just the way it is because most laws.
[12:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
[12:17] Mike: His argument was most laws or many many laws are just designed to prevent male behavior to to to constrain Male behavior and he's like yeah this is just a male behavior and men just have to learn to stop doing this so he had no very little sympathy for the guys that I have sympathy for.
[12:31] Keith: I Mean you already said it probably even already with the way they do this most of their marks turn it down. It's just that. Yeah, they're finding particularly desperate and in this man's case as you say maybe particularly stupid men.
[12:50] Mike: That's right, it just people we don't think it through Maybe yeah, maybe they're drunk. Maybe they're high I don't know so you've never watched the show does is make you want to watch it. Probably not.
[12:51] Keith: And right? yeah.
[13:01] Keith: I Think the show the premise of like revelling in men being entrapped tried to commit Pedophilia doesn't ah entice me. Um, there's no like schadenfreude there for me I just feel. Like everything about it is sort of depressing.
[13:19] Mike: Yeah I Guess that's right right? because it's right that? yeah.
[13:23] Keith: I I do like the the meme that's like propagated across the web which is you know Chris Hansen enters the room and it's like definitely an oh no moment for ah for people who know like what it bes with when he comes in the robe.
[13:29] Mike: So.
[13:39] Mike: So that that Meme is used whenever somebody's like sort of how is that meme used exactly.
[13:40] Keith: Like what have I done.
[13:46] Keith: It's like where they've been caught red handed but normally it's whatever somebody mentions a young girl on Reddit.
[13:51] Mike: Right? So if I watched a ticktok and it was a relatively young looking girl and said something kind of juicy toward her somebody would respond and say Chris Hansens the room.
[13:58] Keith: Yeah, yeah, like in the comment you'll probably frequent in the comments whenever there's like a particularly young looking woman. Ah you know posting thirst traps. You'll almost always see somebody say Chris Hansen enters the room. It's an easy way to get lots of likes on your comment.
[14:13] Mike: I see I see you can I'm surprised you don't know that.
[14:15] Keith: I don't know can you like comments on on ah Tiktok.
[14:20] Keith: Um, you know I uninstalled tiktok because it scares me it. It scares me because it's too good. Um, but I've found myself using reels on Instagram they've been like increasingly like steering me toward reels like they put it in my feed and that they put it in between.
[14:31] Mike: There we go.
[14:39] Keith: Other people's Instagram stories and ah yeah I'm no better like I'm just Tiktok doesn't have its hooks into me the way that meta does and so um.
[14:51] Mike: Right? You're just you're just switching instead of the you're giving your attention. You're giving your time and money to Mark Zuckerberg instead of whoever well the chinese government I think who owns Tik Tock by dance. Um.
[14:54] Keith: Yeah, I'm using an inferior drug and then trying to be sanctimonious about it. It's not. It's not great.
[15:04] Keith: Bite dance. Yeah, um, all right? Ah, you wanted to talk about incels as well. Okay.
[15:08] Mike: Yes, oh well, we could save that for another episode because I need to like actually write down some stuff about incels I think I think Incels have more going for than people realize.
[15:20] Keith: You're going to say something that only get you three quarters canceled instead of 100% canceled
[15:26] Mike: I Don't know. Yeah, it's ah I think there's a lot of people out there that would potentially agree. We'll see that's our our listener base.
[15:30] Keith: Yeah, they're called insults.
[15:39] Keith: Um, okay, well then let's talk about this guy who ah thinks it's gross to eat pussy I got to pull it up here. Um, okay. My boyfriend expressed it was gross to eat pussy which explains why he's never gone down on me. How do I break up with him I'm not super experienced I've only had mediocre head given to me and I don't want to live the rest of my life not having good sex. It's not that we have completely bad sex. But I don't receive a lot which makes sense since he thinks going down. Ah, girls is Gross. Can't see myself being with someone who thinks it's gross even if I didn't enjoy it like I go down on him does that make me gross to him I'm sure it does doesn't because he enjoys it so it doesn't make sense. How do I break the news to him that I can't be with someone who won't go down on me I have a theory about. Men who won't go down on women. Well Okay I think there's a few things I think like um particularly in Brazilian culture and I'm singling out brazilians here because I have 2 different Brazilian friends that boast that they have never gone down on a woman and they're in their 40 s.
[16:37] Mike: Ah.
[16:51] Keith: And they both were fairly ah profligate in their youth. They hooked up with many women promiscuous. Yeah, that's that's the P word I was looking for and there you go there, you go? ah.
[17:00] Mike: Promiscuous. Maybe yeah, they were profligate with their seamen just dispensing it everywhere. Yeah.
[17:11] Keith: And so there's there's folks like that who just um I think they think it's Beta or something so they don't want to and then I do think there are probably some men who are sort of grossed out by Vaginas but I think the main Reason. Men are hesitant to go down on women is because they have some sort of performance and Anxiety. So The analogy I wanted to draw was toward people who don't like dancing you know so you'll you'll go to weddings and you know there's always like that.
[17:36] Mike: Who.
[17:47] Keith: 15% of people that are just sort of sitting at the tables around sort of fidgeting and looking uncomfortable and you could go over and ask I don't know it depends on the wedding. Sometimes it's more sometimes it's less. Maybe um I mean I think dancing in.
[17:53] Mike: Um, it's only 15% yeah seems like like maybe the ethnic makeup of the wedding would be relevant.
[18:05] Keith: Some black and brown communities is much more popular than it is in sort of you know middle upper class white communities on average.
[18:10] Mike: Oh I was actually thinking of the scottish highlands and all that are iron Ireland you know they do all that dancing but okay, sure yeah, so it's cold. Maybe I should have said cultural not ethnic. Yeah.
[18:17] Keith: Um, Oh yeah, that Irish Dance Ok in any case. Um I think those people who are afraid to dance imagine that there is going to be some sort of judgment of their performance. And they're they don't want to face that judgment and so they'd rather just sit awkwardly and be judged from Afar. Um, and so it is with with oral sex like I think they worry that they'll get down there and they don't really know what they're doing and the woman will be. You know, maybe she'll be nice or maybe she'll be uncomfortable but like they'll face some sort of shame and so they're afraid to even try and so I just wanted to mention that because that might be what's going on with this girl. It sounds like they're both fairly young and so it might not be go ahead.
[19:08] Mike: Um I don't I mean do you really think that do you do you really think that dancing that the dancing thing is a social concern that that people are going to be I mean the reason why I don't like to dance at events like that is because I just don't like dancing.
[19:25] Keith: What I feel like.
[19:27] Mike: It's just that simple like I don't like doing it really at home I don't I don't do it in front of the mirror. You know I Just it's not a thing I do I don't get that much out of it I don't think I'm very good at it etc If if I really learned how to yeah.
[19:34] Keith: I Feel like you're not the right feel like you are not the right? You're so weird socially generally that.
[19:48] Mike: If I could do if I could learn to do like some really good like Roboto moves like Michael Jackson would do or ah you know the moonwalk I've tried to learn the moonwalk. It's it's kind of challenging I'm not coordinated enough I think there's an athletic dimension.
[19:54] Keith: Ah.
[19:58] Keith: So you're met. You're imagining. You're just going on to the the wedding dance floor and you're like okay I have these like 9 moves I'm going to deploy over the course of the evening.
[20:05] Mike: Yeah, that would be fantastic. Yeah, yeah, then then then it would be more fun because I would actually the thing is I Just don't have the interest to like devote. However, many hours I would have to yeah to learn and I don't I Also don't have like the foot eye coordination or whatever because I have actually done.
[20:14] Keith: To learn.
[20:23] Mike: Taking a Youtube video for like the moonwalk and I think a couple other things and tried for like an hour or something and I just made no progress for the moonwalk you need like to be able to slide your shoes a certain way and so where they might go on. Yeah.
[20:29] Keith: Have you ever? Yeah no, the moonwalk is tricky I I too have tried and had no success. Ah have you ever played any of those dancing video games like do you remember when the Xbox first came out. It came with a camera and then the.
[20:45] Mike: Now.
[20:46] Keith: Video game would sort of watch how you're moving your body and then judge you against? Ah yeah, they would like show you yeah I can't remember what it was called. But.
[20:49] Mike: Yeah, there was a Dan yeah well there was dance dance revolution where it would like control like you had to push buttons basically on the floor. That's right.
[20:59] Keith: Well, that was different that for dance dance revolution. You had to get a pad on the floor and you had to move your feet to certain spots on the pad. But then when these camera systems came out. They could get a little bit more elaborate with what you were supposed to do with your arms and your torso and so forth. Um.
[21:09] Mike: Sure That's right.
[21:14] Keith: Anyway, if you want to try and up level your dancing game. Those are pretty fun and because you get like it's a little bit like a rock band or a guitar hero where you get points based on your execution.
[21:25] Mike: I'll tell you ah the most recent dance that I encountered was like ah as a popular dance with that flossing dance. You know the one. Oh I know it's really old I know.
[21:34] Keith: I mean Mike that is that that meme is it's gotta be 10 years old and good philosophy.
[21:42] Mike: Sure sure because it and it became popular among young boys because of people I think there was a character in the game a video game fortnight that could do it or maybe you could like have your guy do it after you defeated somebody or something and so ah I was at some like boy scout thing with my kid. not not alone
[21:52] Keith: Ah, yes.
[21:55] Keith: Yeah, kids love it. Yeah, that's good. It's good.
[21:59] Mike: And ah there was this one there was they were dancing for something and there was this one kid that started doing that floss dance really slow with a really big pelvic thrust and just sort of staring at people in the audience and I thought that was kind of I was like Wow that's that's a pretty serious movie's doing there. Yeah.
[22:10] Keith: While I should have said Chris Hansen enters the room when you mentioned the boy scouts missed my window. Ah, the floss was was promoted on the internet in 2014 by the way.
[22:17] Mike: Yeah I hear you but my.
[22:26] Mike: Well, it was done like ah there was like a Katy Perry ah performance where one of the dancer. The backup dancers did it and that was like the thing that made it become popular. Yeah, but yeah, yeah.
[22:34] Keith: Okay, okay, um, the the key insight will go ahead. You can finish first.
[22:41] Mike: I was just going to say my thing is that it's I don't I don't think I'm very good at and I don't enjoy it. It's not something that I would do at homet Etc et cetera. It's not really that I'm afraid of judgment I I think I'm around as good at it as most people because most people suck at it. Yeah.
[22:43] Keith: Okay, but okay.
[22:51] Keith: Right? The key insight into dancing is that what makes it fun is like sharing the physical space and energy with your friends and your ability to be good at it is not important nobody cares. In fact. If you are bad. You're sort of liberating other people who are bad to feel less bad about themselves. It's almost additive if you're bad.
[23:13] Mike: Yeah I mean the notion of sharing when you say sharing physical space and energy with friends. It just makes me think of like a really overcrowded kind of dirty hot tub.
[23:22] Keith: Right? I think that you are so weird Socially generally that the thing that makes dancing fun for people which is a shared experience with friends that is I don't know if intimate's the right word but it's.
[23:26] Mike: So.
[23:34] Mike: By the.
[23:38] Keith: I mean intimacy is part of it. It's just it's fun to be I don't know wriggling your bodies together. Um, and and so yeah, a nudity was involved. Um, but yeah anyway, like I.
[23:46] Mike: Um, okay, it'd be fun if it was all women and me true. True.
[23:58] Keith: Am a bad dancer and I used to be very afraid to dance and now I enjoy it. But yeah like I I passed some cliff where I was worried about what other I Somehow was able to convince myself that me being bad at it didn't matter. Um.
[24:00] Mike: Okay.
[24:14] Mike: And you think that you think it's the same thing for I mean you must admit that some people it's just they don't enjoy giving oral sex to women.
[24:21] Keith: Right? Yes I Do think that um like with women who for whom there's some percentage just don't like having a cock in their mouth. There's some amount of men who don't like having. Ah, roast beef in their mouth and that I don't know what the percentage is but it might be similar. Um and of course but you know being aroused and being attracted to a partner suppresses your disgusted reflex and so you know most men find it pretty intriguing I don't that is most ah.
[24:41] Mike: Um.
[24:51] Mike: Right.
[24:58] Keith: Yeah I I think most men ah do have this ah instinct intuition to to get down there.
[25:03] Mike: Would you would you find it compelling would you find it compelling if the woman just seemed to not be getting any pleasure from it at all says you just sat there like lay there for 10 minutes while you did it would would you directly get pleasure from it without that.
[25:19] Keith: I was reading a thread this week where a woman was describing that her she just doesn't get much from oral sex and she can tell that her boyfriend enjoys it so she quote unquote lets him. Um I think a big part of it is.
[25:25] Mike: Yeah.
[25:35] Keith: My ego like I I imagine that I'm like delivering pleasure in some way I think I also enjoy like the taste and sort of the intimacy of it. But if I knew if I knew that they were just doing it performatively because they thought I was enjoying it that would be a big bummer.
[25:43] Mike: Do you do you think that you're yeah.
[25:51] Mike: Okay, and you when you say that it's your ego and you imagine that you're giving pleasure does that mean that you in your heart of hearts. Don't believe you in fact, are that you're actually not very good at it and it's it's not actually doing much.
[26:00] Keith: I think based on feedback and we've talked about this ad nauseum but you know you can't trust the feedback you're getting from women about whether you're delivering them orgasms or pleasure. But even normalizing for that I think I am.
[26:10] Mike: Right.
[26:19] Keith: Substantially above average and skill. But ah, who knows I mean I admit that I could be completely wrong I think I know I mean I've been down there enough times that I feel like I must be at least average.
[26:25] Mike: Right? Yeah I mean.
[26:33] Mike: Yeah, yeah I mean I think the thing that I would be suspicious of as a woman and I guess I would feel this way as a man too with a female partner like I would wonder does this person not like this activity or just not like it with me.
[26:50] Keith: Yeah.
[26:53] Mike: And I would I think that would be the concern that I would have that would kind of make it a problem. Yeah I mean apart from the fact that it's like something you'd like to have happen. So Then you're kind of bummed out that you that you want want this? Um, and yeah I mean we've we've heard from people where they had a previous partner. Who enjoyed the activity or you know with whom the person enjoyed the activities then it's like okay well what's going on there like by why all of a sudden You don't want to do it anymore suggests something negative about the relationship and so forth.
[27:20] Keith: Right? right? Yeah I mean I think that enjoying oral sex is probably fairly correlative with healthy sexual relationships. Relations generally.
[27:41] Mike: Yeah, by the way. Um I heard something that ah Jordan Peterson said that I thought was sort of intelligent because its hes on tik to he's is he not on Instagram reels. Yeah, you would skip him.
[27:44] Keith: Oh no, why do you still listen to him you gotta.
[27:54] Keith: Um, if he were Meta would know that I despise him and not surface his content to me.
[27:59] Mike: He he said that people should not have sex with each other if they're not comfortable talking about sex with each other. Oh those, Why do you despise him I don't agree with that. But okay I know there's a reasonable thing to say.
[28:09] Keith: I didn't even hear what you said he said I'm I'm so triggered by your liking of Jordan Peter said I'm listening this time. Go ahead.
[28:13] Mike: Okay, he said he said that people should not have sex with each other if they're not comfortable talking about sex with each other that was like a reasonable kind of decision point for I think I think mostly aimed at women but could be aimed at both.
[28:23] Keith: Oh I like that? Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah yeah I mean he's I mean he's as as always, he's like on the edge of incel with what he's saying there I'm guessing the reason he's saying that is he's doing some sort of victim blaming for women having.
[28:32] Mike: Okay, so there's 1 thing about him that you like.
[28:42] Keith: Negative sexual experiences and he's saying look if you don't feel comfortable talking to your partner. You shouldn't be having sex with him but setting that aside, ah yeah I think it is a good heuristic that if you aren't you know, fairly comfortable saying what your needs and wants and expectations are then you should probably not have sex with them.
[28:59] Mike: Well I mean how is okay so and when you say he's victim blaming you mean that he's you're basically like making the kind of like hyper consent culture argument that like women shouldn't.
[29:00] Keith: I Think that's a good rule of thumb.
[29:14] Mike: Have to like operate within a world where everything isn't perfectly laid out or verbally ahead of time and ah something something like that I don't really know what like I Okay I don't think that's victim blaming I think it's just true that women are.
[29:24] Keith: Um, yeah, um.
[29:30] Keith: Yeah.
[29:32] Mike: Most of the time responsible for these negative experiences that they have actually I think that it's fairly preventable I'd like to think it is I mean otherwise like what a terrible world to raise a daughter in.
[29:37] Keith: I think that can also I think yeah I mean I think it can be true and also yeah I don't understand Jordan Peterson's motivations. A lot of the time I don't.
[29:53] Mike: Um, why do you have to trust him I mean I just listen to the you know sometimes he says stuff that sounds nutty to me maybe half the time he sounds nutty to me I said half half the time but half that like he comes up with things and I'm like oh that like I thought this was a decent take as like oh yeah.
[29:54] Keith: And don't trust him.
[29:59] Keith: Sometimes this is a. Like you should yes I I agree I I already conceded that point reluctantly but but completely but completely like I think that I think that's a really good rule of Thumb. It's a good heuristic like if you are not comfortable.
[30:09] Mike: It's reasonable like it's just a nice like little rule of thumb a kid could have It's like yeah you don't fuck people if you don't want me to talk about it. Yeah.
[30:20] Mike: Yeah.
[30:25] Keith: With your partner generally and specifically communicating about sex like maybe don't have sex with them.
[30:30] Mike: Right? Because something Shitty is going to happen. It could go either way I mean ah a way in which it could be really bad for the the young man or whatever age man could be around pregnancy right? I mean he might have a misunderstanding about what birth control is being deployed.
[30:36] Keith: Yeah.
[30:44] Keith: Oh I mean.
[30:46] Mike: And then have a really nasty surprise and this is something that would be very hard for the guy and you could say well nobody would call the guy a victim there but you could certainly try to become a victim like he's He's been involuntarily made a father. So.
[30:53] Keith: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah I think the vast majority of initial sexual encounters happen without having good lines of communications.
[31:05] Mike: Yes, that's that's.
[31:08] Keith: Which might be the reason why women have so many negative initial encounters like the default trajectory for men is generally positive and the default trajectory for women is generally negative and if the communication lines were open that might be leveled out a bit.
[31:18] Mike: Yeah.
[31:25] Mike: Right? Yeah and I can I can see how people view consent like Matt massive amounts of consent as a way to open lines of communication but there are other ways as well like watching porn together.
[31:28] Keith: Like I can't.
[31:35] Keith: Right? Yeah I we've talked about ah micro consent and some of the issues there in previous episodes all right? Ah, let's see here. Okay, you're going to like this one because.
[31:44] Mike: Um.
[31:51] Keith: I Know this is one of your ah you have like nightmares about this scenario. This person says should I be concerned if a girl I slept with kept our condom with my sperm in it I just met this chick but looking back I think I made her too crazy over be and I'm worried she's going to try to make herself pregnant.
[31:56] Mike: Um.
[32:09] Keith: She was telling me how much she loves my body. How big my dick is how much she thinks I'm handsome. How cute I am and that she loves my eyes and that a lot of women would pay to have sex with me. That's a lot of compliments. Maybe I'm overthinking but she literally wrapped the condom and said she was going to show her roommate because she's never seen a guy come that much. I'm scared that I'll have a child somewhere without me even noticing I remember I had an ex-girlfriend who told me that she would have sex with me when she's married someone else because she likes my genes so she wants to have my baby so I've heard of this crazy shit before I'm scared. Okay, first of all setting aside that this guy might be completely lying. Ah, we have talked about condom keeping in the past. Do you think there would be a market for a product that could neutralize sperm like some powder that you could like sprinkle into the condom that would kill the sperm.
[33:00] Mike: Well I mean most condoms have spermicide in them or many do I'm not sure if most.
[33:04] Keith: Do they have them on the inside I know they'll they'll be ones that say spermicidal lubricant but the lube is on the outside of the condom not the not the inside. You don't want it to be on the inside. You don't want it to be on the inside because it'll slip off the lubricant anyway.
[33:16] Mike: Um, yeah I mean it does seem likely it would be on the outside.
[33:22] Keith: The sperm aside I could imagine you want to be on the inside that would be bad Matt good right.
[33:23] Mike: Um, yeah, what if the spermicide was gritty like ah like a Gri Gribby powder. Um, yeah, it's a fair point that it probably is externally and and right I mean so if you're worried about Accidental Pregnancy. From wearing a condom. The thing you'd be worried about is like the condom slipping off or breaking and so in both of those cases you would want the spermicide to be in her vagina. Not a kind of around kind of around his penis because now you've removed the condom. It might not matter that much. But I think you're right I think it probably is on the outside. Yeah, but.
[34:01] Keith: Yeah, so is there something this guy could do to pretend to give her a ah condo with good baby batter in it but but he's actually ah unbeknownst to her secretly.
[34:02] Mike: Makes logical sense.
[34:09] Mike: Right? This is like a.
[34:19] Keith: Neutralized it.
[34:20] Mike: Yeah, that's like ah you're you're talking about when you if you want to throw away used paint. You can't just put it in the trash. You're not supposed to yeah so there's a couple things you can take it to a facility where they.
[34:27] Keith: Oh you have to you have to ah D volatile it somehow who's going to do that.
[34:35] Mike: Deal with it. But there's also this product you can put in it that dries up the paint like it turns it solid and I think you're imagining the same thing like you could turn your semen into a into some sort of solid substance or or alter it chemically I mean let me just I Yeah right.
[34:42] Keith: Well maybe I Yeah I think in this case, she wants it. She wants to believe that she has the the real live juice.
[34:54] Mike: Sure. So so the thing you could do is you could just microwave it I'm not how many seconds it would take but yeah you Well I'm just saying that would kill it Well there could be a small device that people have that is a battery in it. That's a microwave for Condo sized objects just to quickly.
[34:57] Keith: No, you couldn't I don't I don't have a microwave in my bedroom. This has to be fast and done subtly.
[35:14] Mike: Take care of those That's not actually possible.
[35:14] Keith: Um, this you have a little forage by Forage Cube next to your trash can that you could just ah, surreptitiously put the condiman.
[35:21] Mike: Yeah, yeah I mean that no you can't there there I mean yeah, look you obviously could put some kind of poison in there you could heat it. There are various things you could do.
[35:29] Keith: Can you? you can you would would you v light kill the sperm.
[35:36] Mike: Probably But I mean you would need it wouldn't I'm not sure it would go through the condom material in sufficient quantity. Yeah, and I mean it would get. You know you'd have to do a good job kind of mixing up the seamen too.
[35:43] Keith: Oh geez so you have to shine it down in you have to shine it down into the ah.
[35:51] Keith: Maybe not I mean maybe the Uv penetrates the murky semen very far I think it doesn't I think you're right? It's too high energy now.
[35:52] Mike: Make sure all of it is but properly.
[35:59] Mike: Uv typically doesn't penetrate water that deep if I recall correctly. So yeah I don't think right? but I'm not sure if it's because it's too high energy. Maybe it is maybe that's right actually.
[36:11] Keith: Or the frequency like I know actually well I don't think much electromagnetic radiation period goes through water that well.
[36:16] Mike: You're right.
[36:22] Mike: Well, you can see through water. So I mean obviously light does. That's a fair point.
[36:25] Keith: Like I know radio and Gps Signals don't and those are low frequency high frequency would be something like uv but do do gamma rays or x-rays go through water x-rays must x-rays must that's that's why they use them to do body image. Okay.
[36:33] Mike: For sure I'm sure they do yeah Ex they must write. But yeah.
[36:43] Keith: The end of our science podcast.
[36:43] Mike: I Do believe like it would be. It would be somewhat difficult to to do I mean yeah, it's any in like obviously smashing it with a hammer or something isn't going to do anything like it's these things are microscopic I like the idea of microwaving I mean yeah, he could just he could just hop into the he just said look I want to inactivate it. Ah you know.
[36:50] Keith: Um, what you crushing the sperms.
[37:02] Mike: Yeah I mean basically you don't as a guy you shouldn't this. You shouldn't do this. You should just say no.
[37:07] Keith: Okay, if there was is there an analogy here for men. So but let's let's just assume for a boat but that this guy's not full of shit and the way that he wrote this with like several women telling him how awesome he is sounds a little suss to me. But.
[37:21] Mike: I liked I liked his thing of what he's mirroring like what some people theorize to be a ah kind of historical pre prehistorical female mating behavior where she. Gets the genes from like the most virile guy but then gets the other guy to raise our kids like this is something that anthropologists the eyes about right or not the I guess Anthropologist. That's right? So It's kind of cool that he's that guy I mean he must be something you know a specimen.
[37:39] Keith: Yeah, it's that's it's the cuckold bull thing there right? It's you with the high quality man. Ah, Alpha man. Well he's purportedly that guy. Yeah.
[37:53] Mike: Okay, but you're looking for you want to reverse the roles where there's something that the woman the guy would take from the woman.
[37:57] Keith: Yeah, ok so this woman wants to keep a trophy of ah condoms of men. She's fucked like what what could a man keep panties I guess and I think some men do.
[38:06] Mike: Oh it's easy. This is no, it's it would yeah you could, but the best 1 would be a photo that shows her breasts and vulva and her face is just covered in semen that would she doesn't want any and then you just have that photo and that's like it's around the same. Actually the semen is.
[38:15] Keith: Um.
[38:25] Mike: The semen has an expiration date on it so that they're probably about equal because of that do because and the reason I say they're about equal is because the semen could create a much more serious problem for the guy actually and I'm not sure what the Jurisprudence is like if if somebody like gets herself pregnant with your semen. Are you.
[38:39] Keith: I Feel like ah I think that the the integral of pain caused by photos of ah women in compromising sexual.
[38:43] Mike: You know I'm not sure what the deal is.
[38:57] Keith: Situations There might be more area under that curve than the one of women sneaking semen out of condoms.
[39:03] Mike: I Think the I think that's true, but only in the sort of in society today. It's so much I mean it's essentially doesn't happen that women purposely get pregnant with semen out of condom. So this is not that much of a real risk the other one obviously revenge porn is like a very real thing. It's because of that. But if you.
[39:17] Keith: Um, yeah, right? Yes, that's what yeah, that's that's where I was going? yeah.
[39:23] Mike: But if you just take the okay but if you take 1 instance of each where the woman does impregnate herself and then there's the pictures then I think the area under the curve is larger for the baby.
[39:27] Keith: Yes, but yes there have been some women that have been like absolutely I don't know if cancels the right word but had like career limiting shit happen because of revenge porn.
[39:42] Mike: Sure but okay, okay, maybe the area is the same I don't know it's It's having a kid is expensive. Yeah sure.
[39:48] Keith: I don't I they're both bad. They're both bad I'm just providing a devil's advocate argument here. Um, after you have sex with a woman if you had like a Polaroid camera next to your bed what percentage of them. Would be ah would would consensually let you photograph them I think most would be like oh Hippolaroid Makess it yeah makes it feel more snuffy I don't know.
[40:10] Mike: Why would I use a Polaroid and not just like a phone you were trying to like make 70 s this out or something. Yeah.
[40:22] Keith: Yeah, you're right? Okay Polaroid would be bad using my phone would probably be be less aggressive.
[40:28] Mike: I think that I think that in general they wouldn't be too happy about you taking a picture like that because yeah, actually I mean I think that I think actually a lot of the revenge pourn that happens is videos and photos that women send to the man. So there they feel in control. They send it. Um I realize there is some amount of.
[40:30] Keith: Right.
[40:40] Keith: Yes, yes.
[40:45] Mike: Hiding cameras and things like that These are things that happen. But.
[40:45] Keith: There is yeah but yeah I guess you're right, most women probably would not consent to photos of them being taken during or immediately after sex.
[40:59] Mike: Depends on what's happening after sex too I mean like it could be pretty rough.
[41:00] Keith: Well and especially especially early sexual encounters like before they trust you.
[41:10] Mike: Yeah I mean it be I Assume this is a conversation that well it would only come up if you wanted to take photos like that. But there would always be a conversation because it's it would be difficult to trust someone ah a lot about that. Yeah, well, no, even if you wanted to you with it would I'm not I think.
[41:21] Keith: Sneakily take a photo. Yeah.
[41:27] Mike: Even in a committed relationship of longer than a year say I think that probably only half the time or maybe less would the woman consent to that because it's just it's like look what if somebody steals your phone What if somebody Hacks you and so forth. Yeah.
[41:36] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, all right? Let's move on. Um, oh yeah, I liked this one. This one was one of the. Top things on the sex subridit this week this person writes his kinks are ruining our relationship I don't know what to do I've known him for ten plus years and the kinks have progressed. He always liked anal play. He wants to be pegged etc wants to be the sub and be caged and and me to literally walk around with a key. Has a drawer full of dildos nipple clips and strapons that he always wants to use during sex. He is vocal about wanting to see another man have sex with me lick up the come be the fluffer for both of us. We had a discussion a few years ago about his bisexual tendencies and whether he wanted to explore that I told him that if he doesn't. Oh I told him that if he decided he was gay or wanted sex with men then I wasn't willing to continue a relationship. He chose me willingly and eagerly he has recently started wearing lace underwear at home previously was command he changes after dinner and spends the evening sitting on the couch in them. Some are just lace some are more adorned. He said he likes how they feel. They are up to crack of his butt and he's half hanging out so I don't see how that's comfortable every night he is dressing this way. He said he feels more like himself I checked his stressor drawers and discovered thigh highh stockings. So I know he's planning on taking this further. He wants me to be a hot wife I don't want to do that He's got all these t-shirts he wears around the house that say beta.
[43:04] Keith: Property of hotwi feel so objectified with all his comments like I'm just a mechanism for his fantasies. I Love this guy but through a lot together but I can't live like this the further he goes down this rabbit hole The more turned off I get he doesn't look cute and panties. It's a sexual turn off for me I'd rather he just go find someone else to have sex with if that will help him. And don't want to live with dildos in his panties being shoved in my face every single day when we do have sex he prefers to perform oral and then P I V quickly and dirty to get the job done. Usually he wants me to edge and ruin him more than anything else I know he watches a lot of porn related to this as well almost done here. And don't want to embarrass Him. He can like what he wants. That's not the issue I don't want any of this I Want a somewhat dominant man when I've mentioned the hotwife thing bothering me in the past he said he would stop bringing it up and he did but it's back again I'm considering it as an alternative to having a sexual relationship with him but I know he will be upset because I don't intend to let him be in the audience which is exactly what he wants. Told him that he's not a sub if he if he sets up situations where I have to say no to his kink during sex or he cages himself hands me the key I don't want to be responsible for his orgasms U it goes on and on I don't know what to do all right? So The reason I brought this up is look. We're a fairly sex. We're fairly sex positive.
[44:14] Mike: Is you? This is you? yeah.
[44:19] Keith: Podcast here, but this is the sort of thing I think we worry about when we hear about people going down the kink route like if you start fiddling around with this kind of stuff and discovering that you like it. You end up with like. Ah, situation where only like one out of 100 women can would like even possibly tolerate you like you. You're really limiting your available. Yeah, okay, fine, fine, fine.
[44:47] Mike: I think it's way less than one in a hundred for for this guy. Um, yeah I mean it's difficult to see I mean I like that I like how it's it's kind of like boiling the frog. She just like it's just. And more and more intense and she's yeah I mean this shows like this is this is why like the early part of a relationship where people kind of feel out what's going on with the other person is so important because you want to like when he started having behaviors like this that needed those were kind of yellow flags for her that this this could take place and. Yeah, now she's got this guy who's cock and ball torturing himself on the yeah I mean she's basically comes home. She comes home to and to Dr Frank and ferder cock and ball torturing himself on the couch is just like what? Yeah yeah, I mean that's a.
[45:28] Keith: Yeah, well while he's wearing panties around the house.
[45:41] Mike: I don't they have I mean when you divorce they often say it's irreconcilable differences like is there a special category for this like like.
[45:48] Keith: I Mean it's just wild but like I just you know I frequently get asked and we've talked about it on this show a lot. Um why I don't want to try pegging or.
[45:59] Mike: Um, ah yeah.
[46:04] Keith: Any kind of prostate or anal play. So I proudly have never had anything go the opposite direction. Ah no, it doesn't come up in like business conversations but occasionally.
[46:09] Mike: Um, you you get asked this just in normal life.
[46:18] Mike: But I mean like ah when you're dating or something.
[46:21] Keith: Yeah, like I'm fairly anti pegging and and I'll mention that and then I know I'm fine of yeah no I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody wanting to do it and I'm not I'm not even go Well I'm not even sure I wouldn't like it.
[46:24] Mike: For yourself. You're not ant. Well I mean you don't want to watch it and so forth. But if some guy wants to do it. It's fine. How about if you were on the couch at your yeah I Just want to ask if if you. Yeah I want if you found out someone had just been pegged on the couch you were sitting On. You wouldn't like that Probably that's all okay I don't think this is the same as the pegging Concern. So Your concern is that you might go into Kinkland and become not like this guy necessarily. But. Some kind of altered version of yourself where it's difficult to recover yourself your your sort of more normal life Lifestyle I don't actually think like I don't think that's that likely here I think this guy probably was always essentially this way like there's something that happened in childhood or maybe just something.
[47:03] Keith: Um, yeah.
[47:14] Mike: In his brain or genetic epigenetic whatever and he ah he This is just how he is and he's just revealed it little by little and his wife has sort of tolerated it or maybe even different times encouraged it? Um, but I don't think.
[47:19] Keith: Um, yeah.
[47:23] Keith: I say.
[47:32] Mike: I Don't think that it's that likely that somebody who had no such fantasies would like start doing this just because they tried it and liked it I think you would know ahead of like the reason I think the real reason that you don't want to do pegging is because you just know even if it felt good in the moment you're like yeah I don't want to take that role sexually. And you just know that it's It's the way you are.
[47:52] Keith: Yeah I mean my intuition is that I wouldn't like it if my intuition was that I would love it then probably my concerns about not wanting to go down that slippery slope would sort of melt away because I'd be so excited to to find out.
[47:57] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[48:08] Mike: I Mean this is probably the single the the take that I've given on this podcast. It's gotten me the single most number of like emails bitching at me about this because people will say things like it doesn't make you gay like some guys just like it and it's like I mean it makes you something you know? yeah.
[48:18] Keith: Aha.
[48:24] Keith: Yeah.
[48:26] Mike: Yeah, it's not right to say. So yeah, that's I disagree I Don't think this is a B I don't think I don't think it's for I I'm actually pretty confident that you wouldn't you might be indifferent to Pegging. You'd be like okay Fine. You know you'd be like there were some interesting Elements. You could make a list of pros and cons or something but you wouldn't. You wouldn't be like I want to do this all the time because if you felt that way you would have already explored it. That's I think that's just how that works I don't think you're repressed enough that you would have refused to explore it.
[48:48] Keith: Is part I mean is part of being attracted to men. We've been through this before I think I know what you're going to say here but I'll ask a question anyway is part of being attracted to men wanting to have you know a cock up your ass.
[49:07] Mike: You mean as a man I don't think it necessarily has to be that because there are you know there is a substantial cohort of gay men who don't engage in anal sex Either direction They just don't do that? Um, that being said.
[49:08] Keith: Yeah.
[49:18] Keith: Ah, right? So you can be physically attracted to men but not want a cock up your asshole.
[49:26] Mike: Well for starters you could be physically attracted to men but be dominant so you want you're still the one who wants to I mean yeah, this is the thing is like you can split out what sex you're attracted to and then whether you like to be dominant or submissive those things don't have to track exactly right? So yeah, so ah, but but many.
[49:39] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[49:44] Mike: Gay men are interested in the more submissive role or at least switching back and forth or whatever and and so then yeah, you would probably you know you would as part of that want to engage in that Behaviorre you're you're taking on the more feminine role just like that's the role that most women are comfortable with and this woman in this question is.
[49:49] Keith: Um.
[50:03] Mike: It's making her uncomfortable because he wants her to behave more masculinely and she's like that's not that's not for me. That's not who I am I want to be in the more typical female role and she doesn't want to like be pursuing lots of different partners and I like I like I Really actually I I actually find this thing you read.
[50:13] Keith: Um, yeah.
[50:22] Mike: Persuasive in that I believe it's real because I like how she's looking for outs she says um well I could just take him up on this but I would do it without him in the room. So basically just have another guy that I have sex with like I did just replace him and then she said. Ah yeah I don't want to be like.
[50:31] Keith: Right? right? right.
[50:42] Mike: I Don't want to be part of my husband's I don't be chained to his sort of fetish life. Um, yeah I didn't sign up for this like these are all these are all things that sound pretty believable to me.
[50:49] Keith: Yeah, she's been treated as a kink dispenser. It would be interesting to hear what a psychologist would say if they went to a therapy session and both presented. You know there are cases Here. He's like look like this is just how I am this is what I want I feel like I've been very clear and fair with her about my my sexual needs and then she would be like yeah he has I Just don't want to be involved in that and then yeah like.
[51:05] Mike: Um, yeah.
[51:19] Keith: I Think the correct answer here is they're not sexually compatible and they should break up immediately but a couples a couples therapist with fine, fine, fine fine. But everything else being equal. Yeah and I think ah, a ah.
[51:20] Mike: Correct I mean they might have some financial entanglements right? I don't think I don't think a therapist is going to help this.
[51:34] Keith: No I don't think so either I'd just be curious to hear like what hand-wringing they would do to try to rescue this.
[51:38] Mike: Yeah I don't I mean I think that's pretty unrealistic I mean they could remain friends at that kind of thing but obviously mean look it's if a guy thinks that's unfair if somebody thinks that's unfair. You could flip the genders here I mean what if you were married to a woman and she just like started adopting more and more. Yeah, she's insisting on pegging you she wants to pack. Which is like have like kind of a fake penis in her underwear all the time you know, just sort of yeah yeah, she's like look I just want to I want to be on top all the time I want to like? Yeah yeah, I'm not sure I'm not sure what the Ed have to come up with all the different equipment but may essentially be some sort of dominate trix person like.
[52:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
[52:11] Keith: That would be a bummer if I if I met like this you know brilliant woman that I really liked but that that was what she wanted to do sexually I would just be like I don't think I can do this twice.
[52:14] Mike: It's kind of the same thing.
[52:20] Mike: Well initially I mean if I think about it initially like I'm sure it would be fun. Some number of times. Yeah, it's just that It's just that then you're like oh this is this So now I have to I mean it would it would be actually I actually I actually think would be very psychologically difficult as a man.
[52:29] Keith: Yeah.
[52:38] Mike: To have to to basically be forced into that submissive role. That's the thing it would and that's that's sort of what's telling here is that the woman's being forced into the dominant role like it's just not. It would be very uncomfortable like but I don't it's It's not my role like I'm I'm the rooster not the hen like I'm not supposed to have somebody hopping on top of me, it just doesn't it would it would constantly be an irritant.
[52:44] Keith: Um, yeah.
[52:51] Keith: Um, right right? Yeah, yeah, all right? Let's do one more. This person is an eighteen year old female. She says how do I stop whimpering panting when me and my boyfriend have sex.
[52:57] Mike: And ultimately doom the relationship. Yeah.
[53:08] Keith: Whenever we have sex I always whimper or pant instead of moaning like a regular person. It's super embarrassing and he always manages to make me do it and I can't do anything to stop it last night we were having sex and I was doing a decent job of hiding it until he pressed on my stomach in the spot where he was in me. And fucking lost it and started whimpering instantly is whimpering uncontrollable.
[53:33] Mike: Um, I mean let's see it might be right I mean they're different. They're different sort of noises that people make that are uncontrollable in life I mean like if you can yeah I mean there there are things that are uncontrollable. So it might be.
[53:46] Keith: I Don't know let's say you're at your parent go ahead. Well I was going to say.
[53:48] Mike: The thing let me say this I Want to say this? Yeah, go ahead I Just want to say this because this is like a common trope that I wanted that I wanted to to and this will be politically incorrect I have heard repeatedly and I've noticed this in porn. That this type of behavior is more common with Asian women.
[54:10] Keith: Ah, it is well in my anecdotal experience. It is.
[54:10] Mike: You think it it I mean it has to be a you think it is like we're not scientists here. Okay, and so that's that Okay, so that right there is suggestive. It's got to be either. Yeah that for sure I mean I think I have I think there I am sort of a scientist and I can say.
[54:18] Keith: Oh wait hold on it Also in porn. It's much more common.
[54:30] Mike: With some authority what's going on. Um, so that would either be cultural or like some sort of genetic thing right? and both of those are I mean when you see a correlation like that it does suggest that it's in some way involuntary whether it's ah it could be cultural conditioning but that can be so pretty involuntary I mean it's like this is how.
[54:47] Keith: Well I I mean there could be both a genetic and cultural thing like you know, maybe certain types of people have a more genetic predisposition to whimpering than others. But.
[54:48] Mike: We are. You know my society is.
[55:06] Keith: Ah, my guess is that a lot of people affect it early because they think they should and then they're doing it subconsciously now. My question is something around will and they who share a pova the tennis player Maria yeah oh the.
[55:13] Mike: Yeah, so you think it's like she upova the the effort. What's her first name Maria Maria Sher yeah the tennis player where she learned as a child to like grunt loudly when she served or hit a hard shot. Yeah I mean it's it the same thing that basically that you know.
[55:24] Keith: Grunting First off Monica Sellas was the original. Do you remember like her opponents. Yeah yeah, by some stefie graf fan. There was a lot of like ah weird.
[55:33] Mike: Okay, my bad she was only got stabbed.
[55:44] Keith: Ah, costing of female athletes in the early 90 s right? There was ah Tonya Harding's bodyguard going after Nancy Carrigan and then Monica sell got stabbed I don't think we've had anything similar since have we.
[55:56] Mike: It depends on how you define What a female is but sure no I'm I'm kidding we know I don't think there has yeah calm down.
[56:00] Keith: There was a it So an epidemic back then? Ah, yeah I think tennis players do affect grunting at some point I think their coaches want them to like powerfully Exhale as they're taking their shot and then you know so they get this like advice to grunt.
[56:12] Mike: Okay.
[56:18] Keith: Um, but yeah, but couldn't they affect not doing that in a certain situation and what I was going to bring up earlier when we kept speaking over each other was yeah, like what if you're at your parents house or you have roommates and thin walls like can't you just not.
[56:36] Mike: Of course I mean I can I can not I've got to think that it's to some extent voluntary but it's just one of these things where it would require a significant amount of conscious control to to stop doing it if it's something you're used to doing So is it of course theoretically possible but I could see it being.
[56:37] Keith: Do it whimper.
[56:48] Keith: Yeah I see.
[56:56] Keith: Um, yeah.
[56:56] Mike: Ah, challenging and I don't I mean also there's an element of surprise I mean okay, can you I don't know if you're Ticklish or not but like could you stop tick being Ticklish if somebody tickled you well not really right? I mean it's well I mean here he said she said that he poked in on her stomach.
[57:04] Keith: That I don't think that's a good analogy. Yeah no I don't think I could.
[57:13] Mike: I guess like making his it's what I imagine hang on I want to I have a nice analogy here I I'm imagining the ah picture on the ceiling of the sistine chapel of god touching Adam's you know their fingers touching. Yeah, but here it's him touching his own penis his head through her abdomen right.
[57:14] Keith: Oh I see.
[57:26] Keith: Finger. Ah.
[57:30] Keith: Right.
[57:33] Mike: So her abdomen is sort of the shining light between the 2 anyway, that was my analogy but ah yeah, that's like tickling I mean it's something. It's something that could elicit an involuntary response I think ah yeah, like there are things I could do or someone could do to your penis that I think would generate involuntary response like a gasp or something.
[57:50] Keith: Yeah I I think so too but like the general machinations of sex I think I can do silently if need if need be.
[57:53] Mike: I put it in cold ice cold water For instance.
[58:03] Mike: Yeah, but you have to know what's coming I think that's a precondition and so you're assuming that is the guy that you would know what's coming. But what if yeah, what if yeah, if if you had to be in the submissive role. It's trickier.
[58:14] Keith: I Mean if someone's trying is ah yeah, that's okay, that is an interesting point. Maybe maybe the person in the submissive role has less foresight into what's about to happen.
[58:20] Mike: Yeah, well just like you can't tickle yourself like.
[58:29] Mike: Um, I'll tell you if someone was fucking my ass in the doggie style position and then they like I don't know what sounds I'd be making to start with. But I think that like they could do a stroke with their penis that would or whatever the dildo that would cause me to make a sound.
[58:30] Keith: And so yeah.
[58:40] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[58:47] Mike: And I not I'd have to really think about it not make this sound because it would yeah I mean you're like rearranging my intestines a little bit or something. It's like whoa. Um I'd have to I'd have to know now I probably could once I had this idea of the range of feelings that I'm likely to experience I could probably stop it but it would take a little bit of.
[58:47] Keith: Um, yeah.
[58:55] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[59:02] Keith: Yeah, this is this is good. Yeah I'm I'm glad you came up with this. Yeah, the notion of the submissive person being imposed upon having something done to them and not knowing exactly what's going to happen all of those things probably.
[59:05] Mike: Foresight.
[59:21] Keith: Create a little soup where you're more likely to make noises. Ah uncontrollably.
[59:25] Mike: I mean I have to assume this is what is compelling. This is a big part of what makes like the previous question guy with the cock cage and stuff and what makes submission compelling although he's enforcing it on somebody but is the fact that like you don't know what's coming So It's like I think that women generally get a lot of a fair amount of mileage out of this during. Sex play with a guy right? The guy's penetrating her in different ways and she doesn't really know what's coming next whereas the guy. Yeah I mean as a guy you have to sort of decide. Oh now I'm going to go for the deep thrust now I'm going I mean you don't think about it like that. But I mean there is some amount of it's like a dance.
[59:55] Keith: Yeah, right? and and not always but men are more often in charge of changing positions and so forth.
[01:00:04] Mike: Well, but even if the woman's on top like it's difficult. There's not that much The man has a lot more control when he's doing things than the woman does it's It's more difficult to to control the female body part than the male body part realistically? So even yeah, even if she yeah so.
[01:00:17] Keith: Yeah, all right? We're done that'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary. You've been treated to another hour of nonsense from us. We enjoy feedback, especially negative feedback since that's the most actionable. Ah, you can send us feedback at y um mmvpod at Gmail.com we pay $10 for any feedback. So just give us your paypal or cash app or whatever you can also ask us questions there if you want us not to use them on the air. Just let us know again. That's y mmv pod at Gmail.com thanks for listening and we will catch you next week on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 133: Hotwife Hell, Male Oral Anxiety, Saving Used Condoms, Chris Hansen Enters The Podcast

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