Your Mileage May Vary: How Can Women Be Dominant? Cheating Spouses, No Sex Before Marriage, Female Climax Confusion

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we're going to talk about what it's like to date a cheater whether to tolerate a sudden sex moratorium female orgasm confusion and more. And Keith my co-host is Mike hello mike ah, we talked on our last episode about how women can be dominant in bed. Do you remember that conversation. Ah, and I think the crux of it was.
[00:19] Mike: Hello keith.
[00:33] Mike: Um, yes.
[00:37] Keith: In a standard heterosexual sexual relationship. What can women even do I mean they can they can ride the guy they can be on top and ah but like beyond that we were sort of coming up empty on other things they might be able to do I mean pegging was suggested but that's not.
[00:57] Keith: I wouldn't call that a normal part of a standard heterosexual relationship I know people would disagree but but the the word they're doing the work. There is standard. It's not it. It happens but it's not normal.
[01:00] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[01:09] Mike: Yeah, the the um the thing that demonstrates this I think well is vr porn because there's just because of the necessity typically to have the man static there because they they attach the camera to the man don't have the men moving. They're just.
[01:22] Keith: This is.
[01:26] Mike: It's very limited. What the woman can do and it's ultimately kind of boring like it's It's a negative. Yes.
[01:32] Keith: Do they actually attach the camera to the man I assumed there was some sort of complicated crane and gimbal set up where it it's the camera's there and it's meant to be from the man's perspective but it's not actually physically attached to him.
[01:47] Mike: What I've seen there. There are a couple performers who have multiple cameras set up and so you can see if you want to you can see the guy with the apparatus attached to him Of course it's I mean this is another thing right? It's it's got to be difficult for the female performer porn is always difficult because what you mean and.
[01:53] Keith: No.
[02:04] Keith: Right? ah.
[02:07] Mike: Unless you whether you have a cameraman kind of sneaking around the scene or the guy with this crazy apparatus on it's difficult. Um.
[02:14] Keith: But the apparatus is some sort of Forehead mounted camera or something or is he using his hands to hold it or what's going on.
[02:20] Mike: Um, yeah, it's sort of like ah I don't remember it in super great detail. But I think it's something that kind of goes over his shoulders and is yeah I mean it needs to be mounted kind of near his eyes for obvious reasons.
[02:25] Keith: Yeah, oh right right.
[02:33] Mike: And it's heavier looks heavy enough and needs to be supported by his body. It can't just be and it can't yeah it can't it can't just be like on glued to his head or something. It's it's too big for that.
[02:44] Keith: Well and we're we're getting into the weeds here a bit but does it have like a wide angle lens and then they crop it down to what they need later or does he have to pan the camera himself so that it's got the right angle like 1 thing I dislike. Ah, for example.
[02:49] Mike: I Don't know Oh no.
[02:59] Keith: When the man is in the missionary sex position and they're doing a porn shoot. He's often either looking at her face and hit her breasts or her groin and it's hard to get all 3 of those things in the same shot.
[03:15] Mike: Um, that's what you want you want the I mean in real life that would be difficult too. Of course.
[03:18] Keith: Well yeah, but then I can choose I'm at my discretion about what I want to look at and I'm sure I I go between the 3 ah but when it's up to the camera person then.
[03:28] Mike: Right.
[03:34] Keith: Almost always. It's not doing the thing that I want.
[03:35] Mike: Or it's it's not it's you know at least half the time it won't be doing what you want? Yeah I mean it's that's that's difficult. You could certainly solve that with some kind of fish eye lens so for on vr of course there? No, there's no lensing thing because you know you can move your head around. It's it's it's getting one eighty
[03:38] Keith: That sure right.
[03:53] Mike: And typically not 3 60 but one eighty ah in so you know you have half of the sphere that's visible. Um, one problem with that is that there is kind of a fixed middle point of the of the half sphere sphere that you're seeing which does mean that.
[04:07] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[04:08] Mike: If the action they're doing is toward the bottom of that halfsphere like naturally you either have to sort of pan it using your device or look way way down. You know, physically with yeah, kind of.
[04:18] Keith: Grating your neck. Well and also I think with with fish eye lenses. You get some distortion around the edges too. So I don't know how that would manifest in this particular a bit. Yeah yeah.
[04:27] Mike: That can be fixed digitally I mean but in v 8 well in vr whatever is in like the oculus headset is definitely compensating for that because it ultimately is putting it on a flat screen and it's certainly sort of fish eyed. What's what's coming into it. Um.
[04:34] Keith: Um.
[04:41] Keith: Um, yeah.
[04:44] Mike: But yeah, but to the back to the point of like the the woman I mean they're basically let's see they I mean they will do doggie style but that's something where the man's active but she has to be pushing her butt back and forth if you think about it. Yeah I mean they can't the guy basically needs to stay still and so it's not.
[04:54] Keith: Otherwise there's camera camera shake see this is why this is why I always imagined that yeah, there's a third person who's the camera operator and they have some sort of.
[05:03] Mike: Yeah.
[05:12] Keith: Crane equipment or something. Okay.
[05:12] Mike: No I don't think so that might be that might make it better of course than is his face might smash into the camera I did see a non porn vr ah this week which was a rendered woman.
[05:19] Keith: Um, yeah.
[05:28] Mike: Almost completely naked, but it was not good. It was Pg um, rendered though not an actual person rendered so well that it was a little hard to tell that it was rendered and one of the interesting things they did yeah what they made it so that ah she was wearing like a bikini bottom and.
[05:40] Keith: We're going to see more and more of that as we go forward here.
[05:45] Keith: Nice.
[05:48] Mike: Very very small bikini top. But on the bottom you could see that there was like her pubic hair. There was no pubic hair and it was like some sort of weird like green colored bright Green colored butterfly down there ah sort of maybe but it may look. It's rendered so it could be anything.
[05:58] Keith: Like a tattoo right? right.
[06:05] Mike: And I just was thinking oh that That's interesting because that means that as as people render porn you'll be able to I mean you can do hent type type stuff where it's completely not realistic, but here it would be. You know it's it's it's sort of a subtle body modification. That's not possible in real life.
[06:13] Keith: Um, yeah.
[06:18] Keith: Right.
[06:21] Mike: You could imagine for example, like let's let's say that there were there was a porn trope in 10 years when a lot of porn is rendered where women have sort of glowing tattoos I could imagine that working its way into real life right in in in a porn.
[06:36] Keith: Um.
[06:38] Mike: Video or rendered video be easy to do that. But I could see women then fetishizing that. Well yeah I mean or you could have some batteries under your skin or something I'm not sure. Yeah.
[06:39] Keith: Can you can you use glow in the dark ink for Tattoos. Do you know. Right? right? right? Yeah,, There's various ways that that could potentially be done huh.
[06:57] Mike: Um I saw it by the way on on on the subject of Hentai there was a person on and the nsf w 4 1 one subreddit today I think who was ah looking for a woman what he wanted was a porn where the woman is passive but then. Becomes active and grows a penis and starts fucking the guy so that's like to this like passive axis active axis.
[07:20] Keith: Um, yeah, that's super common in Hentai there's ah women with male sex organs yeah penises and I really don't like it. There's a word for it that you can.
[07:24] Mike: Growing penises. Okay, well he wanted it to ok fu to Ari maybe is a word I know.
[07:36] Keith: Is that I I can't remember is that what it's called there. There's okay on hentai search engines. There's always all these checkboxes for these different words and some of them I definitely want to exclude like the 1 where women grow cocks or where you know they're. Fucking children or whatever it might be yeah there's there's a lot of ah there's some expression for adults who look like children which is their code for like children. That's not great I don't I don't remember of it.
[07:55] Mike: There's that where who will hang on is that one of them for real.
[08:03] Mike: I See maybe that's fu ten ari I don't know. Okay.
[08:12] Keith: Sort of rattling around in my brain that I don't like Futeninari but I don't I'm not sure if I want to like unrepress why? So I don't really want to Google it right? This second? Um, but ok wait so on this. Ah ah how does a female dominant dominate topic I saw.
[08:16] Mike: The I hear you? yeah.
[08:31] Keith: On Reddit from yesterday. Actually this person said I want to be able to quote fuck him back. It always bothered me that sex sometimes felt like the man is the one that does something to a woman and she is only receiving and enjoying and of course enjoying is good and gives him insane pleasure. But my point is what other ways techniques or words can girls do to quote give it back to him.
[08:33] Mike: Um, okay.
[08:50] Keith: Without getting too much into performances not into bdsm and stuff a nice loving warm B J is the only moment that feels like actual control of the situation but other ideas would be interesting and the normal thing The the first comment is.
[08:50] Mike: Um, yeah.
[09:04] Keith: Ah, even though I'm dominant I had a partner that rode me so hard and well that afterwards I'd always tell her that it felt like she was fucking me. Okay, so that's like the obvious thing but ah the Amazon position comes up. Are you familiar with the Amazon position I have we.
[09:15] Mike: There We go sure here. We've discussed it before? yeah.
[09:22] Keith: I well all right? We're one hundred and forty episodes in here. So I I seem to have stricken that from my memory just as I have food fu tenari ah, but.
[09:32] Mike: Well there's a really really, there's a really famous clip really really famous clip of a woman I forget right now I forget her name I'll probably come up with it later where he's she's fucking him I guess in the Amazon position and right as he's about to climax she pulls off of him and then deep throats him that swallows his come. And it's like a really like well-known clip. Yeah, so she she does both dominant things.
[09:51] Keith: Wow I mean I feel like yeah I feel like that's starting as dominance and then it is swallowing a man's calm dominant isn't that like 1 of the ultimate moves of submission.
[10:05] Mike: I I don't think it's particularly dominant but but I was just reflect it was I was you you in the thing you read? Basically it said that giving a blowjob is one of the active things a woman can do so she's basically like switching between the 2 active modes. Yeah.
[10:16] Keith: Oh I see I see it's very active. Yeah, that's true. Okay, so I'm going to paste to you here. A brief clip of somebody in the Amazon position and ah.
[10:29] Mike: Um, all righty yeah are.
[10:33] Keith: I don't even know exactly how to describe this. The man is on his back and his legs are pulled up to his chest so isn't it how how is this not like a normal Amazon position.
[10:42] Mike: This isn't really a very good one to be honest with you. No the reason it's not good. So in this one. So why don't you finish describing it for the listeners good.
[10:52] Keith: Okay, yeah, so the man's on his back His knees are to his chest and the woman sort of almost sits on the tops of his thighs The the or the I guess lower part of his butt and straddles his cock.
[11:05] Mike: And the important thing is the it's the important thing is the the that his cock is pushed sort of abnormally down between his legs right? It's it's or yeah, it's not his cock is pointing. His cock is sort of below his legs if that makes sense it would be like it would be like if you had your cock pushed back.
[11:12] Keith: Yeah.
[11:24] Mike: Behind your legs but his legs are kind of up his thighs are against his shoulders in such a way that that it's not that weird.
[11:25] Keith: What degree What angle do you think his cock is at all right? So like if you're standing up and you're erect and your cock is pointing straight out or maybe a little bit above straight out, but it's mostly perpendicular What what angle do you think.
[11:39] Mike: Um, yeah.
[11:43] Keith: You know and let's call that ° is his is the cock ankle actually negative at a negative angle here. Not sure it is huh.
[11:46] Mike: It's It's most yes yes I'm I'm confident it is so so I suspect it's somewhat like for the guy. It's a little bit of a tricky position I mean your body's in kind of a stress position also for a woman that's not a big. Yeah for the for a woman that's not such a big deal but for a guy I think that could cause a man.
[11:56] Keith: Well yeah, this looks uncomfortable.
[12:04] Mike: Even in a very arousing situation to lose his erection just because you're you're you're putting him in a physically kind of difficult position. So like I wonder whether videos like this one are made with viagra I don't actually know I haven't tried this position. But yeah.
[12:12] Keith: Um, yeah.
[12:17] Keith: I'm not yeah what any position where the woman is on top ah is a little bit harder to maintain your orgasm because you have to you know send blood flow up against the flow of gravity and this is like.
[12:29] Mike: Right? And then yeah when you have more exactly.
[12:33] Keith: This is like amplifying that effect. But I'm not sure I'm flexible enough to do what this man is doing I'm not.
[12:41] Mike: I've never even tried by myself I've never like what I guess I've never wondered that yeah I mean there's also things like yeah I mean you have to position his balls so that they're kind of down below So they're not getting smashed by what she's doing.
[12:50] Keith: Yeah, it looks like yeah looks like she could bruise his balls depending on how bony her butt is there that occurred to me as well. Okay, how is this? not yeah, how is this not the standard Amazon position.
[12:59] Mike: Okay, So so importantly, yeah, yeah, So the thing that she's doing is she's this looks a lot like a female on top position where she's got her legs outside of his legs but importantly, his legs are kind of up not quite over her shoulders. But what she's doing the the movement. She's doing because her knees are bent and she's kind of squatting over his penis. She's kind of doing a more traditional female on top movement. Um you you often see this kind of position where the woman looks more like she's.
[13:25] Keith: Um.
[13:37] Mike: A man fucking the guy like where she her body's a little lower on his body and so she's kind of pelvic thrusting not squatting. She's yeah, she's not doing squats as much as pelvic thrusts. Okay, let me ah, pull it up here. Okay so there's 2 women here.
[13:46] Keith: Okay, um I just sent you another one is this more.
[13:54] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's a bodybuilder so it actually looks like she could be a man but she but when you get the right angle you can see. There's a vagina.
[13:55] Mike: Yeah, this is getting closer. Yeah, you see how she's kind of like this looks more like a guy. In fact, she has a pretty broad shoulders and back right? Yeah, this is getting closer to her actually looking like she's fucking the woman.
[14:10] Keith: Okay.
[14:12] Mike: The man I mean it is kind of cool that there's another woman around his head kind of holding his legs back. That's gets a nice view out of that. Yeah.
[14:14] Keith: Yeah, that gets back to the yeah, that's true this but that gets back to the sort of difficulty of even contorting your body into this position in the first place all right? Well we'll include both of these short video clips in the show notes. So if you want to.
[14:24] Mike: Yeah.
[14:33] Mike: Yeah I wish I could remember the name of the I mean it's a really famous one. You know it's he's on a couch and then she suddenly takes him in her mouth when he's coming if I can remember that one I'll add it to the show notes as well. That's a very compelling 1
[14:33] Keith: Familiarize yourself with the Amazon position you can.
[14:48] Keith: Yeah, so the the first response to this you know how do I fuck him is you know, ride him. The second response is Amazon position which is basically just a derivative of writing him. The third is um.
[15:01] Mike: Right.
[15:05] Keith: Somebody says move your hips. So Yeah I mean yeah in the fourth is have him nice and hard inside of you ask him to hold still then move your body slash vagina on his dick and so yeah, they're like replacing the normal thing where the man. Is controlling the action and having the woman control the action. But I think that's just generally going to be worse for both parties.
[15:32] Mike: Yeah I mean I So my feet my thought on this one is ah sort of like similar to there's there's another kind of domain where this relevant which is the um, kind of violence just general violence and how people.
[15:49] Keith: Um, yeah.
[15:49] Mike: Kind of go after each other in real life men. So you know if men have are having an ah, an argument a verbal argument. They always know if it's in person that it could escalate to physical violence for women that's much less likely for for variety of reasons. Um and so women then get really good at sort of kind of cleverly.
[16:09] Mike: Ah, going after each other um sort of verbally with clever sort of insults and stuff like that and um I think there's sort of like ah, an analogy between that and this type of situation where the the thing that the man does and the thing that the woman does kind of kind of maximize their um.
[16:17] Keith: Ah.
[16:28] Mike: Skill sets if that makes sense.
[16:30] Keith: Yeah, but this notion that a woman could feel like they want to be a more active at least and dominant in some cases.
[16:41] Mike: Oh my. But yeah sure, but my point is my point is sorry I I lost actually lost my train of thought there for a second. My point is that the thing that women can do the thing that women can do is like a man can do something physically active with the other person. A woman is going to do it emotionally and verbally that's my point. Sorry.
[16:46] Keith: Getting old Mike.
[16:56] Keith: Um, ah I see I see.
[17:00] Mike: There was a point to that long-winded thing. Yeah so so women So what? what can a woman do actively the thing that a woman can do actively is and this really works is to appear engaged in kind of a compelling and maybe a novel way for the guy. So ah, seeming seeming and maybe actually being interested in trying something new.
[17:09] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[17:19] Mike: Ah, creating a scenario Um, just like dirty talk from the woman to the man is like really compelling to a guy things like that sorry.
[17:23] Keith: Yeah I I enjoy I enjoy porn where the female is saying dirty talk you know the you know fuck my little hole give it to me. You know, like really saying things that imply you know she really wants it and.
[17:34] Mike: Or.
[17:41] Keith: I Don't like it as much in real life because then there's this like pressure to respond and I you know I don't know don't always have like a rolodex of things to to say there. But ah yeah, this notion that a woman can amp up the male experience by.
[17:53] Mike: Um, right.
[18:00] Keith: Somehow signaling her interest and in the state of Affairs is is compelling.
[18:01] Mike: Um, yeah I mean I Just think that's like the main tool they have that kind of thing is the main tool I mean they can ah dress up a different way. But yeah I mean it's it's it's It's mostly that like that's that's how a woman actively participates in sex. Um.
[18:14] Keith: Um, yeah.
[18:18] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I've I've read a couple more of the responses here but they're all yeah you can fuck him back in any position if it's position if it's a position. You're not used to. We're not sure how tell him to be still for a moment so that.
[18:21] Mike: Yeah.
[18:33] Keith: Yeah I don't think that's great advice this thing like oh just have the man be still and then the woman do the movement like that can be interesting as it as a curiosity or or a sometimes thing but beyond that I don't think so um, this 1 person says her making a point of watching my dick during and ah during intercourse drives me wild.
[18:43] Mike: Um, yeah, so.
[18:52] Keith: Um, yeah.
[18:52] Mike: Yeah, same thing she's actually like she's she's expressing So I sent you a a ah message with this is actually is not the one I was referring to but it gives a good. It's It's the exact same type of content. Yeah, so he's up on a chair. She looks like she's fucking him.
[19:04] Keith: Ah, wow, Yeah, it does look like it looks like yeah until you see her breasts. Yeah, it really does look like she's fucking him huh? Yeah now I understand I got it now.
[19:11] Mike: Because yeah, we have to see is his balls Also tell you the orientation of the penis and I don't know I don't know if you've gotten to the key moment and then she and and when she when she starts blowing him. You can sort of see that she's having to angle his cock down quite a lot. Yeah.
[19:20] Keith: Oh okay, and now she's finishing the job. Yeah, you're right? You're right? Okay I can see at that point. Yeah, why doesn't she but I mean she could Oh yeah, off the very off but the very end. She.
[19:30] Mike: So that's I think put a bit problematic.
[19:38] Mike: Sorry what happened at the end. Oh she's doing the thing where she shows the come now. Yeah I hear you that's an example of a thing I mean but that's a that's ah that's a situation where a woman can be.
[19:44] Keith: Yeah, she gets really close to the camera and opens her mouth. Yeah, that was I didn't I didn't need that. Um, right, let's move on to. Ah.
[19:56] Mike: Sexually relevant but in a negative way, She's repulsed. You repelled you I mean that's actually true I mean yeah so women I don't know. Ah I mean this is why women I mean like women get so obsessed over pubic hair grooming. Ah exactly what they look like these are all things that amp up the game for the guy.
[19:56] Keith: Right? right.
[20:14] Keith: Yeah, right.
[20:16] Mike: They make the guy more excited. Um, So yeah I mean honestly, that's I Actually to be fair I actually think women have more range of motion than men on this I mean the man can do all the emotional things and say different things and stuff like that. But on a guy it kind of a. You got to be kind of careful like it could come across kind of lame So The for for a guy physical stuff is better, but there's just more I think there are more things you can do as a woman than a man. Actually yeah, exactly.
[20:38] Keith: Um, yeah.
[20:46] Keith: Yeah, figure figurative range of motion. In this case, um, all right? Let's move on my girlfriend just revealed. She used to be a serial cheater. My girlfriend of eight months revealed to me last night rather casually that she used to be a serial cheater for years and cheated on every partner she ever had had until a couple years ago ah he mentions that she's forty years old she said at the time she was remorseless but eventually came to a point she decided it wasn't conducive to a healthy relationship or her self- eseem and decided to stop her self-esteem I have always struggled with trust issues my whole life for a variety of reasons I won't go into.
[21:15] Mike: Um, hateness.
[21:21] Keith: She seems to brush this off as little more than an anecdote but I got to tell yall I'm shook I'm shook by a 38 year old using the expression I'm shook I'd like to believe she's changed and learned from this to become someone who would never do this again. But if I'm being honest I definitely have less faith in her than I did twenty four years ago any advice on how much to past.
[21:40] Mike: How to get past it.
[21:41] Keith: This or discuss it further would be ah on on how to get I don't know that it's incoherent writing. Ah he wants to know our opinion. So ah I have never cheated on someone. Ah, the closest I came was ah. I was at a club and a co-worker like came up to me and kissed me and I had a girlfriend and she was like oh it doesn't matter and it's like yeah it does. But I think I didn't break off the Kiss. The absolute millisecond I could have I think it lingered for a half second or something. Um, but it's almost like an exception that proves the role like I've I've never cheated on anyone. Um and someone ah, but yeah I think that once people have done it once or twice that they're likely to continue doing it.
[22:19] Mike: I see.
[22:33] Mike: I Don't think that I mean I think it depends. Um I think that I did things that could be characterized as cheating in college. But importantly, it was because like I just didn't mentally think of.
[22:34] Keith: Forever. Basically.
[22:46] Mike: This would be yeah, maybe maybe in college it doesn't make any difference but like I didn't view the relationship the same way. The other person did so that that yeah I just.
[22:53] Keith: Yeah, yeah, you hadn't had the ah the dtr talk to define the relationship I don't know Yeah, it was not very promiscuous in college. So I had like.
[22:58] Mike: No I mean does that really happen in college now I don't I think it's less common. Anyway, yeah.
[23:10] Keith: 1 girlfriend when I started college and another one like halfway through and we were both very monogamous.
[23:17] Mike: Yeah I mean I Ah yeah I just wasn't going to turn down opportunities put it that way.
[23:20] Keith: Can you can you give an example and then I'll decide whether I think you are out of line.
[23:24] Mike: 1 time 1 time. Oh well, this one. You'll like this one one time I was having sex with somebody and she knew about the other girl and was like what about answerer girl's nameing here and I was like oh no, don't worry about that I remember that specifically
[23:42] Keith: Ah, why would she that was probably her way of saying that she's concerned about it. Not concerned enough not to do it but she's like I guess acknowledging it slightly ameliorated her guilt or something.
[23:49] Mike: Yeah, that's right.
[23:55] Mike: I don't I think I mean I think that she look I mean this, it's I think that men and women perceive these situations differently from my perspective. It was yeah I had not had the define the relationship talk with anybody so I was like I look honestly I just wasn't. That didn't matter to me like I think that the optimization function I was falling at that point was like which path is going to maintain a so supply of sex for me while I'm doing other things. Yeah, go on.
[24:23] Keith: Right? Okay, but yeah, but that's the key like I think if somebody suggests that they understand the impact of their quote unquote cheating and about how they may be hurting. Someone's feelings and Breaking. Trust. Then yeah, right, like once you've decided that your hedonistic pleasure or whatever is more important than ah, some long term commitment to someone. It seems like yeah like once you've crossed that Bridge. You're probably. More likely to cross it going forward right? Ah I mean I don't.
[25:01] Mike: Well do you think I crossed that bridge.
[25:15] Keith: A little bit but not enough to ah I don't know draw the line in the sand that I just discussed.
[25:21] Mike: Yeah I mean I Just don't think that like it it I think that your optimization function can change over time. That's all and so um, yeah, and also yeah I mean there's also I think you can also have is okay importantly I think that.
[25:28] Keith: Um, yeah, right.
[25:39] Mike: The line I would draw here is something like there's a certain age at which a person's brain is mature and at that point they're able to sort of do things like understand what the other person's thinking to consider the long-term impact of different behaviors. So be able to forecast. Oh this is going to create a really nasty situation for me in you know, two weeks because
[25:42] Keith: Right? right.
[25:59] Mike: This person's going to find out. They're going to get upset and so on and so forth and so I think before a certain age that I mean look this is why like in the criminal justice system. The people were represented by 2 Okay sorry was that made me think of the law and order intro but the ah ah that's.
[26:10] Keith: You Yeah tenton.
[26:15] Mike: Yeah that's why ah under 18 you're treated pretty differently and you know yeah because there's some expectation that you actually can change mentally at some point and certainly you know age 30 and beyond. It's hard. It's suggests something about your personality that probably isn't going to change so there I would. Tend to agree with you.
[26:34] Keith: Um I just I I occasionally hear stories about ah somebody who's with somebody that's cheating and they don't know about it and it's just such a.
[26:51] Keith: Preposterous betrayal like I don't really care that much about like physical infidelity like if it happened to me I think it I don't know as far as I know it's never happened to me.
[27:05] Mike: Oh it's happened to you that the odds are I'm sure it's happened to me too. Yeah, that's not that's.
[27:12] Keith: I mean I'm I'm positive. It hasn't happened in any of my long term relationships I've been in a 5 year relationship I've been in ah 3 3 year and and 2 2 year relationships and like it's like in order to cheat on someone. You have to like.
[27:21] Mike: Um, yeah.
[27:29] Keith: Have your whereabouts be like unknown at some point.
[27:30] Mike: That was the other thing I was going to mention is that I think the presence of hyper surveillance technology has changed the nature of this also so I mean when I had my various experiences in the in the 1990 s like that you actually could get away with things. Yeah.
[27:41] Keith: Um, like yeah, right, right? right? You know it's yeah I was thinking about that in the context of a long distance relationship. It's not that.
[27:49] Mike: I Mean there were the person really wasn't going to find out. Yeah.
[27:57] Keith: I mean it still sucks that you don't you can't get laid but the tools for maintaining a long distance. Relationship are much better now than they were in the 90 s video chatting is super easy and so forth.
[28:06] Mike: I've thought yeah that's true I've thought actually of this in terms. Yeah you you frequently see Tiktok videos about guy of where guys are basically trying to explain why they've completely lost interest in dating women. So.
[28:19] Keith: Um.
[28:20] Mike: I Guess not incel but like sort of like moving in that direction and I think this is part of it is that this the the technology dimension where there it's you're so intensely surveilled ah from day One of the relationship that guys just don't.
[28:26] Keith: Um, what's this. Um.
[28:40] Mike: It's just a negative So one of the the main point these men make is that on balance. It's not good for them and they mention things like um, you know courts favoring women if you get divorced and things like that they mentioned they mentioned a whole series of ah ways in which it's not great for the guy sort of the expectations on the man versus the woman they think are tilted against them.
[28:50] Keith: And then.
[28:59] Mike: Um, but yeah, this is this is one where the way the experience men of men have now versus like thirty forty years ago is concretely different and worse. It's not like this. It's not the only thing that makes them say that but it could be the straw that breaks the Camel's back
[29:13] Keith: So I have a number of friends I'm thinking of 1 in particular whose girlfriend surveilled him to some preposterous level now I later came to find out that his girlfriend had been cheating on him for years. So maybe that's why.
[29:27] Mike: Um, pain.
[29:32] Keith: She was surveilling him so much because she had her own ah assumptions about how people behave in relationships. But I've dated people who try to surveil me but I just tell them like that's just not. We're not going to do that like I.
[29:49] Mike: Well, but they'll still send you texts all the time and things like that right? there's still this expectation of.
[29:51] Keith: Sure But I I fairly early set the expectation that I'm you know I'll respond to texts as I choose and that may I you too. But I think I don't know maybe I'm.
[30:01] Mike: Um, I think that's unusual I Think that's unusual. Yeah yeah.
[30:08] Keith: Compelling enough that people will tolerate that from me.
[30:08] Mike: I think that's right I think I think that for most for the average man. He basically doesn't feel like he has the leverage to do that and and the key understanding. There is for the average for the average man if his girlfriend breaks up with him I mean the question you can ask is I mean this is actually sort of interesting for a man who's a 5
[30:26] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[30:28] Mike: Like on a fair scale so he's right at the midpoint who's say twenty five years old his girlfriend breaks up with him assuming he doesn't pay for sex. How long is it on average between that moment and the next time he orgasms inside a woman's vagina like six months
[30:40] Keith: Um, yeah yeah I mean it depends on 8 age and stuff. But yeah you said he was 25
[30:49] Mike: Well 25 he's 25 oh you're saying he could yeah, he's 25 and he's been. He's no longer as a girlfriend some of them will just have some other girl that they know really well. But I think most men it's yeah and of course for the woman. Yeah for the woman. It's ah.
[30:59] Keith: Of course of course on I take your point here I take your point.
[31:06] Mike: That afternoon if she wants it so that that asymmetry causes the guy to capitulate to all kinds of crazy demands that well I'm so I'm calling them crazy all kinds of intrusive maybe demands that the that a girlfriend would make because he doesn't want to.
[31:07] Keith: Of course.
[31:15] Keith: Um, yeah.
[31:23] Mike: Ah, do the six months and and 1 further point I would put it and I made up the six months. What do I know? Maybe it's three months. Maybe it's a year the up furthermore capitulating those demands actually makes it harder for him to find a new mate when she if she breaks up with him or he breaks up with her right? And ah you know most of the time it's the woman breaking up.
[31:29] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[31:38] Keith: How how how? so oh I see.
[31:42] Mike: Because he's been surveilled so he couldn't be like building connections with other women like he doesn't have like a cadre of women on the sidelines whereas if he he could potentially have that if she couldn't surveil him he could be in some activity where there are a bunch of women but she probably would stop him from doing that activity right? so.
[32:00] Keith: I This is all this is all just super form to me like I I can't imagine ah tolerating a partner who said you know like oh I can't be in my run club because there's other women there where you talk to other women there.
[32:01] Mike: So she wants to and yeah.
[32:14] Mike: I'm there no men in the run club who say that their significant other complaints or is curious or anything like that. Okay.
[32:23] Keith: No, there are there are it's just I would not tolerate a relationship like that unless it's like I don't know. Ah I'm trying to think of like a famous a hot person unless it's like Taylor Swift or something but like I actually.
[32:30] Mike: This is definitely like pretty proof.
[32:37] Keith: Is a preposterous thing to say like I think I could date Taylor Swift for like a week before I would just have had it with her like I think she would be so annoying or like how I'm imagining her being.
[32:44] Mike: Ah, you think the issue is that she would be she would annoy you not that she wouldn't select you. She wouldn't select you because her publicist wouldn't her. Her publicist wouldn't approve it if okay, let's say that we had the same amount of listenership as call her daddy and she wanted to sort of.
[32:52] Keith: Ah I'm to let you finish here but go but ah.
[33:01] Keith: Ah, or Joe Rogan say
[33:03] Mike: Kind of yeah well, that's yeah and she wanted to take a walk on the wild side so to speak so like her publicist like okay Taylor now is the time for you to like really sex it up a little bit. Um I think that you would date her for a lot longer than a week
[33:09] Keith: Um, ah ah, right right.
[33:20] Keith: Well ok, there's external factors here like ah every millisecond of dating her increases my net worth by $2000000 oh and my credibility as a eligible bachelor goes up a bunch too.
[33:23] Mike: Um, yeah.
[33:27] Mike: Well not just that and you're like I mean just like the you're sort of yeah that yeah, that's it's fantastic move. So I think you would think you would ah take 1 for the team there.
[33:38] Keith: Right? Yeah, whoever yeah, there's a football player dating or now Travis Kelsey of the Kansas City Chiefs and like yeah, he's gonna be it. He was already like probably the third or fourth most marketable person in the Nfl but yeah now he's far and away number one and ah yeah.
[33:43] Mike: Yes.
[33:58] Keith: Good for him.
[33:58] Mike: Yes, I mean these are really good ah that her and I guess it's her publicist probably came up with this really clever, really clever move.
[34:02] Keith: Yeah, yeah, all right? but setting aside like all those externalities like I was trying to create a situation where I'm dating somebody that's like really compelling and really attractive. But for me, it's yeah, like not being trusted when I'm alone. But be a big problem. But I think a lot of men tolerate. It.
[34:23] Mike: Well yeah, sure sure well they don't have a choice because ah because of the logic I I just said I think that's what it is I don't I don't I I think that men if men had yeah I mean that's they just aren't.
[34:27] Keith: Like I guess I mean if you do it right? You seem higher value.
[34:40] Keith: Right.
[34:40] Mike: Because most men's experience is that they go on a dating app and they get sex with a new partner once a year or something I don't I don't know I'm making up numbers here. It would be sort of interesting to have real numbers to put and and by the way I said a guy at them in the median a guy who's in like the. Who's like a 3 out of 10 or a 2.5 out of 10 that guy I mean it could be 5 years like his choices might be ah capitulate to this woman's demands or like accept that you're going to become like an american taliban because you're going to have sex so little that you're going to get radicalized.
[35:04] Keith: Yeah.
[35:14] Keith: Right? You like almost literally taking the the red pill I think they do I think that's that's a problem but you know like and yeah, there could be like ah an effect on the other side too here which is.
[35:15] Mike: I'm actually surprised more men. Don't get radicalized by lack of sex. Yes, well some do. But you know.
[35:28] Keith: Yeah, a Median man dating a Median woman. The Median woman's experience might be that her previous partners have been sort of shady and so she might be more apt or inclined to ah.
[35:44] Keith: Surveil because she's had bad experiences in the past. So there's some sort of like flywheel effect there.
[35:45] Mike: Sure well so it's even worse than ah the you know you're familiar with this idea of comfort women. Ah that were offered to ah gis yeah in in Japan in particular and the whole idea was to lower various forms of violence.
[35:55] Keith: Yeah, during during Wars. Yeah.
[36:05] Mike: Sexual assault but all other other kinds of violence as well.
[36:08] Keith: Yeah, hold on we should say specifically what it was so I think during world War two and ah yeah.
[36:12] Mike: I think was the occupation after world war 2 in particular. But maybe I think I mean some of it has a very sordid history because I think ah the japanese soldiers in China did it so then that was sort of forced forced prostitution among chinese women. So that's not great. Well none of it's great. But yeah.
[36:27] Keith: Yeah, that the general idea was that there would be a set of women prostitutes. Basically who would sleep with military men in order to ah lower the rate of of those military men doing.
[36:44] Mike: Right? Yeah sort of I sort of wonder I mean this is not an experiment that in this woke modern age would be possible but I sort of wonder if one could lower the violent crime rate generally in cities by having the same thing.
[36:44] Keith: Add things. It was like taking the edge off.
[36:57] Keith: How right? yeah.
[37:01] Mike: Maybe Ai this would be maybe this is the biggest upshot of Ai is violence will decrease because men will have comfort robots and then men will be. You know so pleased that they won't act out violently.
[37:09] Keith: Yeah.
[37:16] Keith: Yeah I think the long term for women in that world is bad because if it gets to a point where men don't need to pursue women I think that could have pretty negative consequences for women.
[37:29] Mike: Do you think that's why we have this rash of women deciding their men. They've they've seen the future they're like I don't This isn't going to work out so great. So I'll just be a man.
[37:39] Keith: If I were a woman in it were easy to become like an actual man set a is that sentence I just say like ant's cancelable is it considered easy to become an actual man.
[37:48] Mike: You mean? Well yeah yeah, totally well yes because Trans men are men but I think what you mean is to have some surgery that gives you a penis that functions say the same as mine and the there are no they. That's there's no.
[37:56] Keith: Is that easy.
[38:06] Mike: I Think that's what you mean right? when you say actual man you mean we could call it a legitimate man. Ah.
[38:06] Keith: I Guess just the the life experience of being a man seems easier. It is shorter.
[38:17] Mike: It's shorter so you lose some number of years although you can you can improve that significantly through diet and exercise. But yeah.
[38:23] Keith: Um, it's probably shorter for Trans men as well but is it shorter The Trans men are are so so new in volume. Anyway.
[38:29] Mike: That's a good question. That's a good I don't think there's any data on that because there haven't trans men and trans women haven't been around long enough I would I would respect a guy you know there are these silicon valley rich guys who are looking for the found of youth investing in startups that are going to. Extend the human lifespan I would respect one of them if I would really respect it if say Peter Thiel came out and said I'm going to transition to be a woman just to get that extra like 8 years would be great. He's like I'm I don't yeah.
[38:56] Keith: Um, I wonder if ah taking estrogen or whatever extends extends. Male's life.
[39:04] Mike: It's not that I feel like I'm a woman I Just want those extra years like whatever. Yeah yeah I mean you know.
[39:09] Keith: Yeah I suspect it doesn't work that way but it might there I mean certainly there's some hormonal effect on age art. Anyway, let's move on to the next topic. Ah now yeah, this one is.
[39:19] Mike: Um, yes.
[39:24] Keith: Okay, if your girlfriend of 2 years randomly says no more sex until marriage is at grounds to break up. It's like the opposite of salacious we've been having a vibrant sex life throughout. My girlfriend recently had a religious awakening decided no more sex until marriage. We plan to get married in our early thirty s he doesn't say how old he is now so I don't know how long this moratorium.
[39:24] Mike: Um, salacious.
[39:43] Keith: Is I love her and I thought I could do it but I'm slowly breaking and I don't think I could do this anymore. She loves me though and I would feel like a complete jerk for trading. Love for sex. Okay, so much of what he's saying here. Implies confusion is there any situation where this is tolerable like 1 it applies. She doesn't care. Enough about sex or 2 she doesn't care. Let me let me finish. She doesn't care enough about sex with him and 3 she cares a lot about religion and like all 3 of those I think are I think all 3 of those are deal breakers for me. Yeah.
[40:03] Mike: Um, well hang on hang on that. What about? yeah.
[40:13] Mike: Ah, there we go? Yeah, it's the three I was going to put that is number 0 like that's like the preeminent thing here I don't I mean would you would you want to date somebody who was really religious any religion.
[40:25] Keith: If it's Taylor Swift maybe but no generally no.
[40:31] Mike: And that's because of the status or like the orgasm intensity. You think you get from her So okay, wait wait. Okay, so both ah okay so you would tolerate it in that context probably for some period of time and then you would fatigue of it which would you rather.
[40:35] Keith: Yes, yeah, there's yeah, there's lots of reasons.
[40:43] Keith: And then right and then I would fatigue and then it would be or.
[40:50] Mike: A woman who is a committed say but sort of reasonable like say presbyterian or a woman who believes in astrology. 6.
[41:01] Keith: Um I I was in my run club the other day and yeah I I told you this off the air. But I'll say it again on the air. Yeah, somebody started talking about the lunarric or sorry the solar eclipse and.
[41:19] Mike: You run faster during solar eclipses because because of the ah the Rays Yeah gay go ahead.
[41:19] Keith: But for that's not true and Friday the thirteenth the others there's less rays pushing me backwards. Um, and then also about Friday the thirteenth and saying there's something weird in the air and everyone's acting weird and I just I i'
[41:35] Mike: Um, that could be but that that it would be because of people believing that Friday like if you have a society where everybody thinks solar eclipses on Friday the thirteenth correlate with something people might kind of be on edge and acting weird. But I don't think that's what they meant with there. They were trying to suggest that.
[41:41] Keith: Now I see right? Yeah, that's true. Yes, there's There's some causal physical effect caused by the.
[41:52] Mike: Like I'm reading into it and trying to give them. Yeah, go ahead.
[41:58] Keith: Status of the cosmos.
[41:59] Mike: Right? So so you it sounds to me like you would rather I would pick the Presbyterian because that is compatible with being intelligent and thoughtful like that right.
[42:10] Keith: It's less I would say it's less incompatible but fine.
[42:14] Mike: Well, there's there's a developed you you can have and it's one of these things that has a developed enough theology that there's a way to sort of weave it into a scientific understanding of the world that makes sense astrology. Yeah, there is yeah there is but a presbyterian.
[42:20] Keith: No, there's there's there's not. There's not okay I don't know enough but it's funny when you said Presbyteria like I I could see that you chose that particular faith carefully I know so little about religion I know so little about religion that I can't argue but like.
[42:33] Mike: Um, it's just a fairly secular faith. Yeah.
[42:39] Keith: Doesn't that imply that like they don't believe in evolution do do Presbyterians believe in evolution. What do you mean? typically does their doctrine say that evolution is it compatible with evolution.
[42:44] Mike: No, no, not not at all. It would just be it would just be kind of I mean typically yes yes, well the ah doctrine the doctor let you choose you know.
[42:56] Keith: Like do their priests. Oh ok, do they believe? do they believe that a man literally broke the rules of physics two thousand years ago
[43:01] Mike: Yeah, you wouldn't That's that's not important like the important thing is yeah.
[43:09] Mike: Probably but I mean mostly that's up to you like you can you can still be.
[43:14] Keith: What do you mean? that's up to you Jesus Christ didn't resurrect isn't that like sort of a core tenant of the ah of the religion I mean Mike I agree I I right.
[43:21] Mike: Yeah I mean yeah, that probably that's why I got to be honest.
[43:29] Keith: I agree that most people who claim that they're like Episcopalian or whatever or presbyterian I'm just making up words those are those are kinds of religion right? Ah I believe I agree that most of those people don't actually believe the religious doctrine they they invoke it when it's convenience.
[43:42] Mike: Right.
[43:45] Keith: And they like the sort of sense of comfort they get from the community around the church and that on all that stuff. But yeah, like when you say somebody who is Presbyterian It's like ok well are they really like am I going to have fights with them about like bacteria and like ah you know whether vaccines work and like weather.
[43:49] Mike: Um, yes.
[44:02] Keith: Ah, you know evolution is a thing then you know like then that's that's going to be a hard pass for me. But.
[44:08] Mike: You probably will have fights about that. They'll just be more intellectual than the fights with an astrologer an astrology acolyte. Yeah, but that yeah no I Just it's someone who is someone who who who is an adherent of the I mean Yeah, but it's true I mean the there look. Ah.
[44:10] Keith: Yeah, is that what they're called acolytes.
[44:25] Mike: Ah, any religious person I mean what is religion religious is believing having faith in something so they're going to have something they believe that you can't you don't have evidence for So if your if your whole deal is hey I want evidence for everything then you're going to have problem with all religious people.
[44:34] Keith: What do you mean? if my whole goal is yes my deal for like how things work is evidence based and it's interesting to think about what's true and what's not true and for things that are obviously not true when people think they are true I get frustrated. Because I want to have conversations that it's like hard to figure out. What's what's true and like if they're stuck on like oh you know evolution isn't the thing and you know there was a literal miracle two thousand years ago it's like well I don't even know how to proceed you've heard me do this, you've heard me perform this.
[45:04] Mike: Yeah I hear you I hear you I mean people people want rules people, want rules and like and there is some social utility to it but it it would be easier to yes to be with somebody who understood it in that context and and that's typically going to be a person who maybe if they go to church. They do it culturally.
[45:10] Keith: So many times.
[45:24] Mike: Like look I know this stuff isn't true but I like the music I like the community and then it's like okay, whatever that's and a lot of people do that? yeah.
[45:25] Keith: yeah yeah I wish there was some sort of like club that I could go to on Sunday mornings and hang out and like what's and there's like maybe a pot luck and there's like lots of people and huh.
[45:35] Mike: And you go to unitarian unitarian that's a Unitarian Church yeah that's what that is Unitarian Church it's basically ah yeah I don't think you would necessarily like it because I vaguely.
[45:44] Keith: Why is it called church is are there like pictures of Jesus in it and if so why.
[45:52] Mike: Yeah, vaguely. But I think it basically it's it's It's what you just described. It's like it's it's trying to it's trying to say hey you know we? yeah maybe they say there's a God they might not even say that you know but they certainly aren't going to say that a person resurrected and so forth so that yeah that that exists. Yeah, yeah, it's not ah, it's.
[46:03] Keith: E unitarian church of San Francisco okay there is there is one.
[46:11] Mike: The whole point is just for people to have community. You probably would still find it irritating um because the people are going to I'm sure there are people that believe in astrology there. There are people that are there just because they want to be new age and spiritual and that'll probably irritate you but but they do have potlucks and.
[46:21] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:28] Mike: You know, hang out together I Actually I Actively don't want that I don't what I would what I would rather is just have like a cathedral that's mostly empty that I can just hang out in so I don't want the community in the pot look That's actually the worst part of it for me. So.
[46:39] Keith: What do you want you want to feel a sense of greater purpose or to meditate in this cathedral or what.
[46:43] Mike: No no I Just think it's well maybe I mean it's cool. It's cool to go into like some really expensive building and be. It's like you own the place because Nobody'll go in there so that there's that and then like the historical stuff like the art. Yeah, just like but it does it make what does I mean I Just yeah, that's right.
[46:52] Keith: Sure, Yeah yeah, ah cathedrals are religious. Buildings are cool places.
[47:00] Mike: So I just like that. But I don't it actually irritates me if there're people in there if they're tourists in there or if there're people in there that like really hardcore believe because then that's it's kind of buzzkill.
[47:09] Keith: Yeah, strong agree all right? So this guy's girlfriend says no more sex until marriage I mean that's obviously reasons for breakup on on about 17 different grounds. But. Um, yeah, the number 1 comment is that is a perfectly reasonable time to end the relationship when 1 partner makes a unilateral decision like that about the status of your relationship. It's never a good sign. Um, yeah I'd have to agree.
[47:33] Mike: Well, and also I mean this is something kind of fundamental. It's changed about this person. It's surprising to me that the sex part is the main thing here I mean because this isn't just a religion. This is a religion that prohibits sex before marriage. So this is a pretty serious religion I mean this is a pretty.
[47:52] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, this is this isn't your ah unitarianist here. This is ah.
[47:52] Mike: Is going to be a life altering thing and if he doesn't agree with that. Yeah I mean imagine you have kids later and how now how do you teach them about reproduction and sex One of the parents is going to say look you know they're going to have the kind of the more secular humanist view or whatever of hey you know use protection. Make good choices that kind of stuff The other one is going to say look God will strike you down So that's going to be a really confusing messaging for your kids like this. It's yeah, you're not compatible and I certainly wouldn't get married to the person I mean yeah, and since now he can't fuck her either I mean they don't have a relationship.
[48:17] Keith: Um, yeah.
[48:26] Keith: Yeah, what's it. What's the point of anything. Well Mike he says he loves her so I mean they are friends. What are they? Oh maybe they make out sometimes or hold hands.
[48:31] Mike: He could be friends. Well he could love her you you say? Ah, ah he could love her with ah a Gotpe instead of Eros meaning the love that you have for all of humanity as opposed to the romantic love of Eros he could you know.
[48:45] Keith: What are these expressions from have you been reading some therapy book see I don't know any of this turbidology because I.
[48:50] Mike: they're religious no no they're religious expressions ah so that ah so I got that from I had a friend who was dating kind of a a woman and having sex with her and he said to her your love for me is Eros and my love for you is a goy and she didn't know what he was saying but it was like but it but basically was saying like look. You you want to marry me and I I don't I'd not I just want to have sex with you like I I view you the same way as I view like my neighbor like I I care about you but not special in any special way. Yeah that's right.
[49:10] Keith: Right? I right? right. Right? But mostly your vagina right? Okay, all right Let's move on a friend was a 21 year old female didn't feel anything while orgasming twice. So I know yes.
[49:33] Mike: So a female didn't feel anything.
[49:38] Keith: So I brought this up so it was our longtime listeners should know this. But for newer listeners. Mike's one of his favorite topics is female. Orgasm confusion. So so she told me she had sex with a guy and apparently when she was on top and stopped she realized everything was soaking wet. So she asked the dude what the fuck happened. To which the dude replied. Oh you came twice lll o l unclemar if he said l lo l or if that's just okay, she said she had a great experience with the dude and that she thinks the dude is 20 out of 10 he fucks her the right way but she says that she didn't feel something when she came.
[50:00] Mike: Are.
[50:16] Keith: Think they meant to use the word anything there. But anyway all right one lessons or a couple essences is that weird I'm a dude so I got little idea about it since my ex-girlfriend would Twitch and feel emptied when she came so that's pretty much all the experience I know about? okay so this writer must be in his early 20 s himself I don't I think forget this guy's subjective.
[50:31] Mike: Emptied I think he was dating a Trans woman. Potentially.
[50:35] Keith: Thoughts on yeah, he seems to think okay all right First of all, ah do women secrete something when they orgasm.
[50:51] Mike: I mean they could be they could have urinary incontinence otherwise known as squirting. So it's possible.
[50:56] Keith: There could be that yes they could could they also secrete whatever it is that that lubricates themselves and in some ah cliff function kind of way.
[51:07] Mike: Yes, well I don't know if they secrete it I don't I don't think it's a cliff I hear what you're saying you're basically saying it.
[51:13] Keith: I Don't either I don't either I think they get aroused as they built toward orgasm and maybe they produce more lubrication as that's occurring. But.
[51:20] Mike: I think across a I mean I know that across say a thirty second to 1 minute span a woman can produce lubrication enough that you kind of notice that the amount of lubrication changes materially and so you could have a situation where the guy with his thrusting his plunger like penis pulls out.
[51:29] Keith: Um, yeah, yes, yes.
[51:38] Keith: Said lubrication. Yeah.
[51:39] Mike: Ah, significant amount of that lubrication. It makes everything wet. so so yeah so so that would be my first hypothesis here is she just got really really excited. She okay, first of all the reason she stopped and said what the fuck happened is because she thought he came in her that was the way I interpreted that ah, like maybe she's not on birth control or she didn't they had.
[51:57] Keith: Maybe all we know is that she realized everything was soaking wet. That's the ah extent of the evidence here.
[51:58] Mike: Yeah, yeah, which usually is the is the suggestion of the presence of semen is usually the the way things get soaking wet during sex the wet spot I guess it could be lubrication but often is the woman is sort of coming out.
[52:07] Keith: Move move.
[52:14] Keith: I mean I've been with women who are quite wet ah almost irritatingly so and you know it it can make a mess. It doesn't suddenly arise although.
[52:18] Mike: Um, sure.
[52:28] Keith: You might perceive it suddenly like it could be building slowly and then it passes over some amount and then you really notice it. Um.
[52:33] Mike: Right? I mean the thing. Yeah, so the but the to the the main thrust so to speak of the point here I mean an important a key constituent pretty much a key constituent of orgasm is a sensation now I will say that I have had close to sensationless orgasms before. We've discussed this I think on the show and yeah, it correlates for me to take like to taking ah, let's say I take a lot of Ibuprofen the day before because I am trying to get rid of a headache or something the next day it's possible that I would have an orgasm where it's just like not.
[52:52] Keith: Um, you've mentioned this? yeah I have not.
[53:01] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, off right? right? I I remember I remember this conversation but it even those you felt the like spasmodic contraction right.
[53:10] Mike: Great.
[53:16] Mike: Oh for sure I mean you? yeah you know you had an organ. It's yeah and and there's like a the sort of let down feeling. That's the wrong word but like the of of the blood flow the blood flowing out of your genital area like that is initiated by the orgasm and in in the way you would sort of expect. Um.
[53:27] Keith: Yeah, yeah, right, right now right? Yeah and so given that I Whatever the female orgasm is.
[53:33] Mike: So you know you had an orgasm. It's not confusing.
[53:43] Keith: Ah, the sensationless female orgasm is is a new one and I love this guy gaslighting her and saying that she came twice and.
[53:45] Mike: Is it? yeah.
[53:52] Mike: I don't have I mentioned this this argument about squirting a friend of the show gave it to me a while back? Um, yeah.
[53:55] Keith: I was wondering if you were going to get back on this hobby horse this where this this this topic is even is a David about squirting. But I thought we might.
[54:03] Mike: And it well it is because what the guy the guy's eyes got wide and said you came 2 times is because he he thinks that's all about squirting. This point is 1 right? Okay, well it's sort of.
[54:10] Keith: Well, it could be secreting lubrication. That's why I wanted to that's why I went in that that direction but all right? Let's let's hear your latest on squirting.
[54:20] Mike: <unk> sort of the same thing in the sense that like it's just a large amount of fluid call it. Ah the argument that the ok the argument that was made was simply that squirting is not a thing and the evidence is that porn in the nineteen seventy s never had squirting in it.
[54:24] Keith: But the volume is substantially different. But yeah in the viscosity.
[54:39] Mike: Like so it's it got invented after the 1970 s which makes sense to me I mean the you know point you go ahead.
[54:42] Keith: Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute. Okay, some women do squirt you and I both believe it's urine I suspect the reason why it doesn't show up in the 70 s is because it wasn't considered. It was considered a fauha then.
[54:56] Mike: Yeah, that's right sorry that's what I mean so squirting as a sexual a sexual sex link to behavior that's sort of important Yes, something like that and so and so I mean.
[55:04] Keith: As a triumphant sex linked behavior is new was invented. It's cultural.
[55:12] Mike: Yeah, so so what's what's that evidence of it's evidence that when you go on Chatterbait and you find or whatever a porn site and you find a woman who's quote unquote squirting when she's masturbating or whatever. She's just sitting there bearing down and peeing right? She's she's just like she's sitting there thinking and I know this because I've asked cam girls about it. I've read extensively on Leak the cam girl problems forum in other forums on Reddit like they all. They're like oh yeah, if you want to squirt drink a lot of water like.
[55:38] Keith: Yeah, so like I think there is some topic for debate about whether all squirting is affected or whether most squirting is affected I think some women actually are sort of inconsonant and and and.
[55:45] Mike: Oh it isn't all it is at all some women have in here. That's right, That's right and they might That's right because if you if you stimulate the the sort of G spot area your your.
[55:54] Keith: As connected to physical stimulation. No.
[56:01] Mike: Confusing her body so that it might release urine and and if she needs to pee or whatever. But the point is that either the the argument was about what whether it's like you said sort of sex linked in a strong way I Forget what you said like ah triumphantly.
[56:14] Keith: Um, yeah.
[56:17] Mike: Sex she sexually linked in the and the fact that it was not president in 70 s porn whereas stuff like deep throating anal like there's all these other behaviors that were all depicted but this one is curiously absent like you said I'm sure it was considered a fapa was just like oh that's that's not great.
[56:28] Keith: Somebody should study this like when does squirting first start appearing in porn and like can you do some sort of survey and figure out like what the ratio is of.
[56:39] Mike: I'm gonna guess I'm gonna guess it's plus or minus five years ah related to the the appearance of futeninari in porn.
[56:50] Keith: Right? This I I really hope I am going to Google it after this show and I hope it's not something awful. Um, okay I hope so I hope that's I hope that's all it is.
[56:54] Mike: I think it's guys that I think it's girls with dicks now I think and I think it's not just I think it's not just Hentai I think that I've seen trans I mean these aren't really trans people I guess I'm not sure even what to call them Futenanari I guess you know people that. Look females if they just have a gigantic schlong which is yeah, it's interesting.
[57:20] Keith: I Ah for some reason there's something wrong with like tinder like my tinder. My tinder matches are not nearly as numerous or as good as my ah bumble and hinge ones.
[57:25] Mike: Oh.
[57:37] Keith: Matches I mean I can see people who I pay for both tinder and bumble. So I can see people who like me and I get more likes on Bumble and I know more people use tinder and so my account must be in some state because my profile is basically the same on both. So I.
[57:42] Mike: Um, yeah.
[57:55] Keith: Account must be in subsidy anyway. Ah, unusually I had 4 matches on Saturday morning not matches 4 inbound likes on Saturday morning and all 4 of them were trans men or trans women who wait what does it mean when I say.
[58:09] Mike: Trans women are women Keith so do you? ah naturally knowing that you contacted them and that means a person it's as opposed to Cis man. So it's a person who presents as male or is a man according to culture by the way. Ah I mean we're at the end of the show here.
[58:14] Keith: When I say a Trans man what does that mean. Okay, sorry no Trans Trans women then Trans Trans women.
[58:26] Mike: Trans women are not women to in my opinion like I don't agree with that I think that's stupid and even in ah even if I understand what they're trying to say but it's to newspeak you're trying to force me and if you don't know Newspeak is go read 1984 you're trying to force me to change my language I don't have to do that.
[58:31] Keith: Okay.
[58:42] Keith: Wait Wait What? what? how could you identify I think Trans woman is a perfectly fine phrase. It means a person who isn't a woman. They're a Trans woman.
[58:43] Mike: I Know what you mean you mean that Trans women should be treated as women and that's different and you know maybe I'm okay with that. But like yeah.
[58:57] Mike: Yeah, but the thing that the thing that the community is trying to do is to remove the trans so basically yes, that's what that trans women equals. Our women is ah is an equality. They're trying to give you that that forces you it's like saying 2 times 2 is 5 or 2 plus 2 is 5 They're trying to get you.
[59:00] Keith: That Yeah, that.
[59:10] Keith: Yeah, a lot of these women look really compelling. It's confusing I don't I Really I Really don't think I'm going to feel sexually aroused when there's a penis.
[59:14] Mike: To change your language.
[59:19] Mike: Maybe you should try one. You could ride that ride the cock.
[59:27] Mike: What if they wore a garment that kind of very tightly coupled it and they just offered you anal.
[59:38] Keith: Ah, they were there on the receiving end I don't I don't I feel like I feel like the closer you get to the Genitalia the more the illusion breaks down.
[59:41] Mike: Um, yes, would you accept a blowjob from 1 of them.
[59:50] Mike: Well okay, what if 1 of them you said they agreed you said and they agreed that they would never take their clothes off. They would just blow. You see you'd said you're going to say I don't like blow jobs. Okay.
[01:00:02] Keith: I I think the knowing that there is a penis down there would be enough to ruin it for me but I'm not sure I mean it's an interesting thought experiment.
[01:00:10] Mike: Um, is so is it now so it does it matter that it's down there. Like for example, let's say that you were in your college dorm room and you knew there was ah a man on the other side of the wall. So he's very close. There is a penis actually within like ten feet of you.
[01:00:16] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:00:25] Mike: It's that there's a penis physically like with on the same blood supply as the mouth. That's what matters to you? interesting.
[01:00:28] Keith: Yes I think that's the critical. The critical thing. Yeah, do you feel differently.
[01:00:38] Mike: Um I I don't but it's because I don't Ah I agree I Okay I agree with your viewpoint but it's because I view a Mtf transsexual as different from a woman. I Don't think Trans women or women I think it's different and so then I then I I think you would have to reckon with Well do I want to have have sex with am I physically am I attracted to Mtf transsexuals and I'm not.
[01:01:04] Keith: Okay, let me start saving I'm going to start I'm going to start saving some of these profiles and ah, show him to you and I want I'm curious if your opinion changes like some of these people look amazing.
[01:01:17] Mike: Oh and I'm I I believe they look amazing I Just don't It's okay.
[01:01:25] Keith: You just want to see the pictures. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:01:29] Mike: I've seen plenty of I mean I've seen plenty of this stuff in porn. It's just I mean I like I understand it's amazing I Just they might be compelling looking I Just think you have to you have to be interested in interacting with a person with a penis that has to be like what you want and I know I don't want that I don't want to give a blow to a person.
[01:01:41] Keith: Yeah, no I Definitely don't want to do that I'm just not even sure I'm just not even sure like I'm not even sure I can receive the non penis interacting sexual stimulation I don't.
[01:01:46] Mike: Whatever gender they are I don't want to be receptive anal sex.
[01:01:57] Mike: And I wasn't finished I don't want to do I don't want to do docking with them I don't want them to like Jack off all over my body I don't want to facial from them. Ah yeah I don't want any of these I don't want to give them a hand job. Oh actually.
[01:02:05] Keith: Okay, what what other things do gay men do okay.
[01:02:12] Mike: The most interesting thing and we've discussed this on the show before we would be giving a hand job just because I think it would be I could imagine it being interesting. It wouldn't be what they want they want to have like a relationship and I get it but I could imagine it being interesting in the same way. It would be interesting to like Jack off a horse just to like feel the physical responses of ah of another dude.
[01:02:24] Keith: Beer. Um, right? Yeah yeah.
[01:02:31] Mike: But I want it to be like in a way that I can't be forced to do anything dot da da I would be very clinical and I and I also might just say I don't want to do this.
[01:02:37] Keith: Um, would you rather would you rather check off a horse or a man.
[01:02:42] Mike: Um, it's sort of close. It's sort of close Actually I think a man in the way I described where it's like very clinical I think I would pick a man just because I think it it would be more so synonymous or like isomorphic to my experience and it would be interesting to like.
[01:02:46] Keith: It is totally close. That's why I asked.
[01:03:00] Mike: Jack Off another guy's cock and be like what compare and contrast whereas with the horse of course with the horse. It's much larger. There would be other other things well but with remember 1 of the things I stipulated is it's completely clinical and I can.
[01:03:02] Keith: Um, yeah.
[01:03:06] Keith: Yeah, but the horse might come sooner. So it might be briefer.
[01:03:16] Mike: Terminate at any time I can just be like I don't I don't want to do this anymore. So I might only do it for like 30 seconds with a guy. So I I don't I don't have to bring him to orgasm I'm not sure I would care about that and I definitely would want to like wear a glove. So if I did bring him to orgasm I could just be sure that not his semen isn't all over me and I don't want to see his.
[01:03:19] Keith: Um, yeah.
[01:03:29] Keith: The there's no, there's no physical contact. Yeah same right? Yeah I agree with all those stipulations.
[01:03:34] Mike: Don't want to see so it would have to be some kind of like milking table thing to I don't want to see or hear his like responses and I don't want of course know him or ever see him again. So it best if he's like ah on a a death row death row inmate or something like he's going to get executed soon etc. That's right.
[01:03:49] Keith: No one else can see a mirror ever all right? that will do it for this episode of your biage may vary. Ah we appreciate feedback. You can give us feedback at ymmvpod at Gmail.com we pay $10 for feedback. So if you want ven mower paypal just let us know. Again, that's why mm the pod at Gmail.com you can send us questions there too. Let us know if you want us to use them on the air or not thanks for taking the time to listen to us and we'll catch you next week on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 139: How Can Women Be Dominant? Cheating Spouses, No Sex Before Marriage, Female Climax Confusion

Episode Transcript