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Episode 14: Male and Female Masturbation Death Grip, Fake Orgasm, Massage Arousal

Team YMMV | 3-17-2020 | 1:05:07

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The YMMV guys wax poetic about sex.

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:02] Keith: I don't think the issue is that
  • [0:19] Keith: you would do something that feels better than a vagina if. Look, uh, I think that if men in general this is something we could maybe discuss. I think if men in general had it 100% open access to vaginas all the times that like they would masturbate rarely.
  • [0:30] Mike: Yeah, I think so too.
  • [0:43] Mike: Hello, and welcome to your mileage may vary your mileage. Mayberry is a show that tackle subjects related to sex and relationships. We search the Internet high and low for were topics and then discuss them until they are fully settled. My co host is Mike. Well, we'll bring in here shortly.
  • [0:48] Mike: But first, the usual reminders. Please subscribe to our feet in your favorite podcast. Half.
  • [0:59] Mike: If you're feeling particularly motivated, go ahead and rip us to it really helps. You can like our Your mileage may vary Facebook page, or you can email us at why, Mm, Peapod at gmail dot com.
  • [1:07] Mike: Uh, OK, Mike, I think our last episode was a bit too scatological, so I'm going to endeavor to steer clear of that
  • [1:10] Mike: region today. Did you did anyone mention that to you?
  • [1:20] Keith: No. But it was mentioned to me that on the last episode you used the term cysts. Cysts, male, Yes. And that enraged one of our listeners.
  • [1:23] Keith: Yeah, because we're why?
  • [1:28] Keith: Because he can't tolerate the term of the terminology. He
  • [1:37] Keith: he's he's an anti whatever. Like you have social justice warriors, maybe like gender justice warriors. And he's an anti an anti sort of transit warrior. Yeah.
  • [1:49] Mike: I mean, his aversion to the term aside, do you disagree that we are sort of traditionally cis gendered and like some of the stereotypes that come with that
  • [1:55] Keith: Yeah. No, I don't disagree with that at all. It's just that I can sort of I can understand.
  • [1:59] Keith: Um, I can understand what the
  • [2:13] Keith: complaint that when, uh, sort of theme historical norm for something has its has the terminology for it changed. So in other words, you know, you could say something like, Look, why can't you just say gender and then have a new word for
  • [2:21] Keith: ah, when your gender and your sexual identity don't match instead of making you know what I mean? Making people change the term for the historical thing.
  • [2:24] Mike: Yeah, well, you know, I think cis gendered
  • [2:30] Mike: has almost become pejorative in some circles, which,
  • [2:31] Mike: you know, I can.
  • [2:36] Keith: That's interesting. Does that mean that so Wait, Is there some way I can stop being CIS gendered and just be gendered?
  • [2:37] Mike: Ah,
  • [2:42] Mike: no. I think you have to express some sort of queer nous to not be suspended,
  • [2:44] Mike: I think. I don't know. Wait
  • [2:52] Keith: a minute. But my gender is male, right? Nice. I'm both cis gendered engendered male Redirect. Yes. Okay, so I don't
  • [3:04] Keith: Okay. You see, I'm saying it's a little strange to have CIS gender be pejorative because there's your That's a little bit like racism, right? You're you're attacking me for something I actually can't change about myself,
  • [3:04] Keith: so
  • [3:21] Mike: whatever. Yes, but yeah, I think we should move on before, you know, we would enrage the masses here. Um all right. Okay. Um, I have a sort of light topic to launch with that emerged after a conversation with Eric yesterday. Do you know what white cloth is?
  • [3:25] Mike: No, he didn't either. And I find this
  • [3:41] Mike: somewhat incredible. Okay, So white claw is a seltzer alcohol drink. It is 5% alcohol and 12 ounces is exactly 100 calories. So it's you know, materially less than then a beer. It's about the same as a light beer
  • [4:07] Mike: and sales of theirs. So there's a bunch of different brands. Why close the first, and it is still the most popular. But there's Anheuser Busch has a brand cold bond, and Viv and Boston beer who make Sam Adams has one culturally. But, uh, yeah, they did like like, I think, like 600 or $700 million of sales last year and for the first time in like decades. Wine sales were not up last year,
  • [4:19] Mike: and these drinks are extremely popular amongst young people. Like, I think if you talk to anyone under the age of 30 and said you hadn't heard of like Law, they would be sort of like equally stunt.
  • [4:21] Keith: What's the
  • [4:27] Keith: I knew that I knew that wine sales have declined. Um, but I mean, there are other things like the
  • [4:36] Keith: Well, I guess, eh? So, you know, they're they're tariffs now on European wines, although that wouldn't affect, say, California wines. Yeah, but I don't know, like
  • [4:39] Keith: I decided, I didn't know it was because there was an alternative. I
  • [4:51] Mike: generally things like that. There's been sort of like, almost like a revolution amongst young people drinking this weird seltzer booze. It's it's not bad. I mean, it's just sort of flavorless.
  • [4:56] Keith: What's Yes, what's the rationale for? Is it the calorie counter? I mean, what's the rationale for people changing?
  • [5:08] Mike: I think that people generally are pretty paranoid women in particular, paranoid about the number of calories in the alcohol they consumed, right? That's why I like vodka. Tonics are so popular amongst women in a way,
  • [5:12] Mike: well, I don't know why light beer exists. I guess that's the sort of marketed towards women.
  • [5:13] Mike: But
  • [5:21] Mike: yeah, I think this drink, like, makes people. It's like a guilt free way of it makes him feel less guilty about been shrinking.
  • [5:24] Keith: So you're basically removing.
  • [5:25] Keith: Hey,
  • [5:34] Keith: interpreting what you're saying. The only calories in the drink are from the alcohol. I mean, alcohol itself has a lot of calories, but you're basically saying that there's no sugar, There's no mold.
  • [5:40] Mike: Yeah, I mean, you know. Yeah, that's right. I mean, I think light beers air around. Ah, 100 calories as well for
  • [5:45] Keith: sure, but a light beer doesn't have 5% alcohol. Probably. I'm
  • [5:59] Mike: guessing they're about Because with light beers, I mean, the companies are competing to get the calories as low as possible. So, you know, there has to be some in tow, like, still have the beer flavor, but I think they do that mostly with chemicals, not with actual, you know, malt or whatever.
  • [6:07] Keith: Sure, I was just thinking they would. The obvious thing is to lower the alcoholic content. And then I sort of thought a light beer also had less alcohol. But
  • [6:08] Mike: who knows?
  • [6:13] Mike: Eric pointed out that this is sort of like this generation senile or something.
  • [6:16] Keith: Yeah. I mean, you also had wine coolers.
  • [6:23] Mike: Yeah, I think those still exist. But wine coolers have, like, an almost They have, like, a negative association with them a little bit.
  • [6:28] Keith: Well, this probably will, too. Yeah, eventually. But I mean, like, yeah, I like your
  • [6:32] Keith: whatever. I mean, you're competing in wine and beer, which are, like,
  • [6:35] Keith: found multiple thousands of year old beverages,
  • [6:41] Keith: and so it's kind of obvious you're just gonna wind up in this area where it's just kind of embarrassing later, because it's not.
  • [6:45] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Zima. I wonder if they even manufactured anymore.
  • [6:49] Keith: So can you go to a grocery store and buy like a case of white? Close
  • [6:58] Mike: it. In fact, if you go to any like gas station or corner store, you will see they have, like maybe even an entire cooler dedicated to these Seltzer's now,
  • [7:09] Mike: like all the one it's always places all the little whatever in Manhattan that Colin Bodegas. But like all the little stores around my house, um yeah, like, have big areas for it.
  • [7:15] Keith: I'll definitely go look for it now that I know that. And it's always the brand is always white cloth or there's like 10
  • [7:27] Mike: different. There's a bunch of different ones, but they come in like sort of cheery casing like white claw. The marketing is almost all white, like the box is white and it looks clean and I don't know, locale somehow.
  • [7:30] Keith: Yeah, I'm thinking that I have seen
  • [7:38] Keith: thes because I just would have to be like if you started listing off brands, I suspect you'd come upon one that I would recognize the name of. I wouldn't
  • [7:42] Mike: drinkable just because it's sort of a funny name.
  • [7:46] Keith: Sure, sure what it sounds like. That's what people ask for in bars.
  • [7:47] Mike: Yeah.
  • [7:57] Mike: So yeah. I mean, well, yeah, Whatever the reason why I brought this up in C, I couldn't believe Eric hadn't heard of it. And then I was like, Okay, I'm gonna ask Mike and Yeah, yeah, there's there's some sort of like,
  • [7:59] Mike: I don't know, generational thing here or something. I don't
  • [8:05] Keith: know for sure. I mean, it makes sense, though, because because in order to have heard of that,
  • [8:08] Keith: they may or may not be allowed to advertise on TV.
  • [8:13] Keith: Uh, probably not. Or I have not sure number seeing that.
  • [8:13] Keith: And so
  • [8:18] Mike: then, yeah, yours anyway or yeah, I think you have to be. But
  • [8:25] Keith: you have to be ordering with somebody. And by the way, there's there's something a little bit flawed about what you're saying. Because
  • [8:26] Keith: ah,
  • [8:29] Keith: there is this kind of rise of, like, hipster
  • [8:31] Keith: brewpubs.
  • [8:36] Keith: They're serving all kinds of different beers, and so that that obviously is cutting against that a little bit.
  • [8:42] Mike: Yes, idea. I think beer and craft beer is growing in a
  • [8:43] Mike: actually. Incidentally,
  • [8:45] Keith: I have been
  • [8:52] Keith: several times to bars with people in that age demographic within the last six months, and nobody ordered that, I think, but it would
  • [8:56] Mike: think you're gonna notice now. We'll see. You should report back.
  • [8:58] Mike: Yeah. Okay. I bet you d'oh! Well,
  • [9:06] Keith: I I actually did pay attention to what people ordered, because I was just because of, like, some curiosity about if there were changes there ended. Ah,
  • [9:16] Keith: yeah, It was just It was sort of not, um they were a couple of drinks that were ordered. I specifically remember this, right? Didn't know what they were. But then I I actually asked. I said, what What is in that? And it was just
  • [9:22] Keith: It wasn't interesting. There was nothing I'd never heard. I once you God can create fire or something. Yes, Exactly.
  • [9:28] Mike: Okay. Um all right, let's move on. So, um, we talked last episode about, um,
  • [9:33] Mike: women not knowing that they're not having orgasms. And I got some
  • [9:36] Mike: negative feedback about that, too, but so I wanted to read the
  • [9:39] Keith: way I want to hear the negative feedback.
  • [9:40] Mike: Um,
  • [9:50] Mike: I mean it. It turns out that, uh, women do not like being accused of not knowing whether or not they're having an orgasm.
  • [9:51] Mike: Of course. Yeah,
  • [9:52] Mike: of course, they
  • [9:58] Keith: don't like that, but But, I mean, is there more to that? Yeah. I mean, that's, like, kind of table stakes. What I would expect. Yeah, I would expect that. I mean,
  • [10:04] Mike: I thought we adequately caveat it, that we weren't saying that ourselves. We were We were commenting on other people discussing it, but
  • [10:07] Keith: oh, I'm definitely saying that,
  • [10:24] Keith: Okay, just because it's it's just because it's logical. It's logical. It's not. There isn't with a man. If you said that about a man just from first principles, I would say, Look, this isn't logical because a man can tell if he ejaculated or not. It's just obvious there's some fairly often a woman will evidence
  • [10:40] Keith: and also like and also because of the role of ejaculation in the reproductive process. It makes sense that, like biologically, it would be really straightforward. Otherwise, there would be no humans. So there's this is basically sort of
  • [10:47] Keith: obvious reason it would need, But but for women like, yeah, I mean, it makes sense to me that, like
  • [10:58] Keith: very straightforwardly, there could be confusion about that. Um, and also it makes sense to me that would enrage some women because they don't want to be man Splain it too. And that's fine. Like,
  • [11:11] Mike: Yeah, I think everything here makes sense, I think. I think, Yeah, the devil is in the details. Like I think people would disagree about what percentage or something of women Don't know they're having orgasms. But let me read this. Let me read this thing in the week. All right?
  • [11:36] Mike: So this is to women who are unsure whether or not they have had quote unquote real orgasms high, long time lurker and first time poster. So I 29 year old female, 29 years old. I spent my whole life not knowing until today what an orgasm really felt like. I'd use vibrators since my early twenties. So she was, you know, masturbating on was pretty satisfied with them until I got a fancy a rabbit model. And now, after 10 ish uses Whoa, It finally truly happened
  • [11:53] Mike: when I masturbated before, I always felt a kind of involuntary twitching, followed by very intense, sometimes painful sensation so much that had to stop right away before feeling disappointed that I couldn't climax. I thought the twitching was the orgasm and was a little unimpressed. But today, for the first time, I can say with some confidence that my first real orgasm
  • [12:08] Mike: first, I thought I had to use the very upper tips of the bunny years to stimulate the clit. She's getting fairly anatomical here, but I'm gonna continue and was getting very pleasurable results by doing this. But today I thought I'd try to place the dildo part deeper so that the clip was getting more stimulus through the base
  • [12:11] Mike: of the joint bunny ears, which form a V shape.
  • [12:14] Mike: Not quite following this, but okay. All right.
  • [12:15] Keith: You're not following it. It makes
  • [12:22] Mike: my God, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, it's in jamming it in deep there. Yes, and it's straddling her clit like more effectively. I guess that's right.
  • [12:35] Mike: That way, the tips of the years were stimulating the vulva, and I felt a deeper overall stimulus instead of a stronger one. Just on the surface also had better luck using the pulsating vibrations sitting on the vibe instead of the continuous vibration setting smiley face.
  • [12:59] Mike: So here we go. Uh, and the best way to describe it is that it has a very has very little to do with the twitching sensation. The twitching makes me think It's just an involuntary reaction to being touched a certain way. To me, the real orgasm felt like there was a warm sensation building up and slowly spreading through your body. And then you start or atleast I did to feel a pulsating sensation lining up with the building up sensation. And then you get a sort of explosion not too strong, but really pleasurable, even got my ears ringing a little
  • [13:03] Mike: and you can't move or think for a little while, depending on how strong they were. Probably
  • [13:23] Mike: natural women experience in the same way, but I just wanted to share that. In my case, I spent my life believing orgasms were one thing little underwhelming to be honest and found out today that they felt like a completely different thing. It was a mind blowing surprise, and I thought I'd share it with you guys in hopes of helping an encouraging more women to correctly identify the wreck is, um, so let me just comment on one thing here. Him, and you can react.
  • [13:34] Mike: Yeah, I think it's interesting that there was a physical sensation that was different from the real orgasm that she was having, that she was misidentifying is an orgasm before she had an actual one.
  • [13:35] Mike: Well, that I
  • [13:39] Keith: mean, I don't know about you, but that happens to men too, right?
  • [13:47] Mike: Sure, it's just that most men push past that when they're 12 or whatever and get to the actual thing. And so they understand there's a big difference,
  • [13:55] Keith: right? But I mean, like that. Like she actually describes the experience that a man could have pretty well that there is some amount of, like, twitching or whatever. There's like involuntary
  • [14:01] Keith: muscle contractions that happen along the way to an orgasm and like they are pleasurable.
  • [14:04] Keith: They can also happen after an orgasm,
  • [14:18] Keith: like so. So I could also. So I've I've wondered before when you have these men you claim to have, like five orgasms in a row and no refractory period, I've wondered that, like whether that's actually what's going on, is that they again or misidentifying a certain
  • [14:20] Keith: sensation
  • [14:37] Keith: regardless like yes, So like the thing she's describing is extremely recognizable to me as a man. Like if if if there wasn't a clear endpoint, if I if I didn't, you know, read on Wikipedia that I'm supposed to ejaculate, I might have just stopped and be like, Oh, I just had an orgasm and yeah, that was kind of lame.
  • [14:39] Keith: Yeah, like that,
  • [14:39] Keith: I
  • [14:41] Mike: wonder,
  • [14:58] Mike: I wonder. Okay, let's say X percent of women. Are you All right? So there's there's 100% of women. There's some percent that have orgasms and know they're having orgasms. There's some percent that aren't having orgasms but think they're having orgasms. I don't know what percent that is, but
  • [15:05] Mike: I wonder what percentage of the people who think they're having orgasms but aren't after having read this would,
  • [15:08] Mike: you know, reconsider their
  • [15:12] Mike: their belief that they are.
  • [15:16] Keith: Let's some I don't know, like I mean, I think
  • [15:19] Keith: it's It's so subjective, right? So
  • [15:20] Keith: I'm
  • [15:28] Mike: actually curious, like I don't know what I mean. As you pointed out with men, it is not at all subjective. Um,
  • [15:32] Keith: right, I'm actually genuinely curious What the The
  • [15:38] Keith: enraged feedback, whatever angry feedback that you got was aside from just was there something in addition to that?
  • [15:51] Mike: I mean, it's just the General Mansplaining is just that the general comment that yeah, we're sort of we don't have a female perspective and our, you know, sort of musings on various parts of the female body are
  • [15:53] Mike: a Nwoko er
  • [15:55] Mike: in France or whatever.
  • [16:00] Keith: Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's all true, although I mean, like
  • [16:14] Keith: there, there, there, various things people have done. Like, for example, if you remove any specific references the genitals and have people write down descriptions of orgasms, it's their male, and female descriptions were indistinguishable. They've done like FMR I studies, and the thing that's happening in your brain is the same.
  • [16:22] Keith: The contractions of the same like like Sue um, one of my base, one of the base things.
  • [16:34] Keith: My sort of base assumptions is that it's very similar, which I think is very well founded, cause like for obvious reasons like 99.99% the same, um, and so
  • [16:36] Keith: actually, the thing that
  • [16:38] Keith: kind of raises my
  • [16:58] Keith: hackles or whatever the thing that, like makes me suspicious, is when a person describe something that's vastly different from my experience, because I just pretty sure my experience is pretty normal. And so things like having 73 orgasms in a row or saying like orgasms are just totally boring. And don't feel that good like these are all things were like that. Justice is sound exactly right.
  • [17:21] Keith: But the other thing is like it's sort of unfortunate if the feedback is just purely about, like our status of being able to talk about, because I actually think it really is an interesting topic for anybody because not just for women to talk about, because it's interesting that and does sort of have an impact on sex and relationships very broadly. If you have this huge set of women who who actually aren't
  • [17:31] Keith: and on some level enjoying sex and the way that like men do like it makes it, it makes a pretty big difference. And it's like I think it's like a broadly applicable. I don't think that I don't think it has to be. Mansplaining is like an interesting topic,
  • [17:41] Mike: so I think that's well said. I basically agree with everything you're saying. I think what's going on is that there's a certain tone that men can take, that it is a dog whistle for
  • [17:47] Mike: other thoughts, like I remember what Senator it was that was talking about legitimate rape. Um,
  • [17:48] Keith: Ki I remember that I
  • [17:58] Mike: was like, Yeah, I like it. But if a woman is actually raped, her body will reject the semen and she can't get pregnant that way. And that's yeah, that's so like, That's That's obviously
  • [18:10] Mike: that's unacceptable. It's absurd. I mean, I think like some of yes, yeah, I think some women are like, particularly sensitive to men speaking in a certain way about female bodies because it's like a you know,
  • [18:38] Mike: Yeah, it's like a dog whistle for for other beliefs. But I think what you just said is is also right. And I think both those things could be could be true. Um, there was one other thing in this, uh, in this reddit thread where somebody says, You know, they're congratulating about her about having orgasms. She this person's congratulations and be careful. Don't get death grip and not be able to enjoy intercourse with another person. So death grip. Well, okay. Can you describe the death grip of
  • [18:43] Keith: Well, it's usually referred to men. Um, and it's basically a situation where a guy
  • [18:47] Keith: grabs his Penis too tightly while masturbating and then makes it so, like
  • [18:58] Keith: essentially any stimulation other than his own hand eyes. Insufficient because, like nobody in the world is going to be willing to grip your Penis as hard as you are, because, like,
  • [19:09] Keith: since they don't have that Ah, tactile feedback, they're gonna literally think to themselves like I'm gonna chop office. You know what I mean? Like, you know, remove all the blood circulation here. Yeah, and so, yeah, it causes problems.
  • [19:14] Mike: Yes. So, you know, I've heard of death Grip. I've heard people complain about it.
  • [19:15] Mike: It seems like
  • [19:32] Mike: maybe that maybe we're gonna get back into this thing where, like, I don't know, like, the contours of my Penis are different than the average Penis. But it's hard to imagine a situation whereby of vagina is not gonna feel better than anything I could do with my hand.
  • [19:32] Mike: It's not
  • [19:36] Keith: a matter of I don't think it's a matter of better or worse. I think it's a matter of like,
  • [19:40] Keith: um, the stimulation you get used to. And so it's like,
  • [19:42] Keith: Ah, okay.
  • [19:52] Keith: You've probably been with a partner before. Who did not who You've been giving you a blow or a hand job. Obviously her vagina. She is relatively less control over
  • [19:53] Keith: a lot less control, right?
  • [19:58] Mike: I think I can control things a bit. They're too. Yeah,
  • [20:10] Keith: yeah. I mean, that's like, but Okay, so let's just say her hand. You've probably been with a partner who, when using her hand on your Penis just, like, applied so little pressure. But it was like, this isn't doing anything. I've had that experience
  • [20:12] Keith: and, um do,
  • [20:29] Keith: Yeah, it's just sort of frustrating. Like you. You know, you wind up having to sort of take matters into your own hands or sort of guide them or whatever. Like you kinda have to change the situation. Well, okay, So you can you see that? And there's so there's some There is a case where increasing pressure
  • [20:31] Keith: adds to your stimulation,
  • [20:34] Keith: and so you can then think, like, Okay, you know,
  • [20:38] Keith: you could just keep keep going down that roller coaster of like,
  • [20:44] Keith: Oh, if I had more and more and more pressure Ah, and the issue. I don't think the issue is that
  • [21:01] Keith: you would do something that feels better than a vagina if look ah, I think that if men in general this is something we could maybe discuss, I think if men in general had 100% open access to vaginas all the times that like they would masturbate rarely.
  • [21:03] Mike: Yeah, I think so, too.
  • [21:09] Keith: Although, although I have there are people we've talked to before. I think both of us has talked to where
  • [21:11] Keith: men who will claim? No, no, Like I
  • [21:16] Keith: There's a separate habit I have of masturbating, and it can actually be as good or better. But I
  • [21:21] Mike: know I think the chore of
  • [21:28] Mike: foreplay and the clean up and all that stuff can be sort of like Sometimes people just want to get it taken care of quickly.
  • [21:31] Keith: Give it, sure, let's But let's a match. Yeah,
  • [21:38] Mike: it's hard to imagine. I know what you're gonna say here. You could be like, Okay, there's some situation where it's like a woman that you don't need to talk to before After she's, you know,
  • [21:39] Mike: well,
  • [21:52] Keith: like you're like the sultan and you have a harem or something and like you have, you have, like, 100 wives. And so you're sort of supposed to have sex with each one, whatever, like us or whatever. I guess then it could be a chore that's like another issue, the other direction. But yeah, you know. So you
  • [21:53] Mike: get us up here?
  • [21:58] Keith: Yeah, like basically like vagina like simply feels better,
  • [22:05] Keith: physically tactile in a tactile sense and, like you have some additional stipulation of the other person's body
  • [22:11] Keith: and that generally is going toe, um, lead to a stronger orgasm, more fulfilling.
  • [22:21] Keith: Um, but I don't think you know the main thing with this topic. Villas. I don't think there's, like, exclusive right, like it's not the fact that a vagina feels better, doesn't prohibit someone from getting Death
  • [22:29] Mike: Grill. Hold on. But all right, listen. How well does the average person lose their virginity like 17 or 18? Something like that.
  • [22:33] Keith: It's probably younger, but but sure, let's say it's seven,
  • [22:39] Mike: and then they start masturbating at 12 or 13. So there's like this and like
  • [22:59] Mike: for those who don't know like when you start masturbating like it's not like it's something you dabble in from time to time. Like I think when people first figure out that like they can masturbate, they really sort of dive, uh, headfirst into there and masturbate a lot. And so, you know, like the average man is masturbated. Hundreds, if not thousands of times before their first, their first. Like sexual intercourse,
  • [23:01] Keith: I would say It's got to be
  • [23:03] Keith: average.
  • [23:08] Keith: I like it. I bet it, but it's typical. I mean, like the mode, the most common is like 1000.
  • [23:08] Keith: Yeah,
  • [23:13] Mike: Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah, yeah. So
  • [23:19] Mike: Ah, yeah, like, why is it there? Let's this, like, epidemic of of death grip. Then
  • [23:29] Keith: I think there is. I think there is. I think it's really I mean, like, look like ah, when I think it's ah really, really common. I don't wantto unfortunately, anything
  • [23:47] Keith: now I feel like self conscious because anything I say about women you could say is mansplaining. But I think that there is a very common thread, for example, on the sex subreddit of, ah, teenage and early twenties women who say, like guys, they're just not very attentive. And then, for example, if you read the, um,
  • [23:49] Keith: Sugar Lifestyle Forum
  • [24:05] Keith: subreddit, which is women who are young but with significant older men Ah, very common thread There is. Oh, he's there's so much more attentive and so like it's sort of overcomes. There's several things that overcome the age gap like money probably helps overcome it. But also this attentiveness matters. And
  • [24:09] Mike: is that or is that just less selfishness.
  • [24:23] Keith: I think there is physical Well, yeah, but you see, it's all bound up in the same light cloud, right? There's, like physical death grip. But there's also like mental and emotional death grip of like Look, look, e, I don't know how common this experiences, but like, I definitely have this experience of like,
  • [24:27] Keith: Okay, you know, right. You start masturbating at whatever age,
  • [24:28] Keith: say 14.
  • [24:36] Keith: And there's a period of years when, like, you don't have access to women and it starts to kind of irritate you. You're like, Look, I ah,
  • [24:48] Keith: there's all these women going around and I just have to be tough and you sort of don't like that and it makes it for me. It made it a little bit harder to connect when I actually had a girlfriend, because it was like,
  • [24:50] Keith: Ah,
  • [24:51] Keith: I'm still a little irritated by this.
  • [24:52] Mike: Like I wouldn't
  • [25:08] Keith: say angry, but I'm still a little irritated by the fact that, like I just spent all this time masturbating, and so it so it definitely like lead to less of an emotional connection when the woman was actually available and it led to a more transactional mentality Because my entire experience of sex up to that point was,
  • [25:13] Keith: you know, just beating off in the bathroom, right? Which is extremely transactional.
  • [25:17] Keith: Um, but yeah, So I think there's, like, an over. I think there's, like, an analogy
  • [25:19] Keith: between her metaphor between
  • [25:25] Keith: the physical and the emotional. But I think you but you also see the same thing with with women
  • [25:28] Keith: with these young women and the men like
  • [25:31] Keith: the woman is not able to pleasure the man
  • [25:37] Keith: the way she'd like to. And I think that has a lot to do with masturbation habits and men. I think, as they get older, learned
  • [25:40] Keith: to tailor their habits too,
  • [25:44] Keith: once you know that you have a woman available like other reasonable cadence.
  • [25:47] Keith: You know you don't you don't You don't have to go is crazy with masturbate,
  • [25:49] Mike: huh?
  • [25:51] Mike: I can't.
  • [26:05] Mike: Yeah, I guess I just don't. I have not had the issue where I was like, huh? I'm not able to achieve the sensation I want from this woman's vagina because of some sort of
  • [26:07] Mike: chronic masturbation issue. Okay,
  • [26:11] Keith: but okay, fine, but I But I bet the following will ring true. Okay,
  • [26:13] Keith: If you
  • [26:24] Keith: let's say that you Ah, abstain makes No, that's not right now. You can have sex. You can have sex with women, but you turn on and off, or you dial up and down your masturbation. Have it,
  • [26:27] Keith: okay? And okay,
  • [26:28] Keith: if you do that,
  • [26:31] Keith: if you don't masturbate for a month, Yeah,
  • [26:35] Keith: and then you have vaginal sex. I bet you would orgasm significantly, quite quickly.
  • [26:36] Mike: Ask, even if
  • [26:48] Keith: you've been having vaginal sex the whole time, I think you would orgasm significantly quicker. And you might even get to the point where, like, you have trouble, not orgasm in too quickly. Like quicker than you'd like to.
  • [26:57] Keith: Whereas if you're masturbating regularly, even if this is even if it's not because, like, Oh, you masturbated right before you went on the date or whatever. No, no, it's not that.
  • [27:10] Keith: Like, even if you had you have multiple sexual partners or some things you have lots of vaginas. I still think that it would impact. And I don't know, maybe if you reflect about it, you would see this. I still think it would impact how How? Stimulating the sexes.
  • [27:16] Mike: Okay. Yeah. All right. So I guess I agree that masturbation regular masturbation,
  • [27:18] Mike: probably
  • [27:40] Mike: module moderates. Orgasm intensity with partnered sex a bit. But it's not like it goes from like, you know, let's say like my average, like reported orgasm intensity would be 8.5. And it's not like it goes from 8.5 to 4.5, because from 8.5 to you know, seven or whatever or make a fire. But it's lower. It just It's not like this massive issue.
  • [27:43] Keith: Yeah, import importantly, though, the proxy I'm
  • [27:54] Keith: proposing here is not orgasm intensity. It's sort of like how long you can last, how much control. It's more, Moreover, orgasm control. Like if you've been masturbating regularly,
  • [28:01] Keith: I'm sure you've had the experience where you're just like I'm gonna have to basically make myself orgasm in this woman's vagina.
  • [28:11] Keith: Yeah, and I think that has to do with, like, masturbation technique and frequently, okay. And you've also, I'm sure had the experience where it's like, you're like, I'm I can't This is gonna happen,
  • [28:12] Mike: right?
  • [28:15] Mike: I guess you like that Spectrum. Yes,
  • [28:20] Keith: you have to think about baseball or pull out for a while and stuff like that. I think that's like
  • [28:22] Keith: that's Anyway, I don't think we haven't even gotten
  • [28:32] Mike: sorry. Crux of your death, Please, That I brought this up is somebody commented on the female version of death Grip And do you know the term for this?
  • [28:38] Keith: You told me right before the show, and I have already forgotten it. So it is a white white call actually thought white car was gonna be
  • [28:39] Mike: that.
  • [28:52] Mike: You know, this is like a call back to the beginning. The episode? Yeah, it's dead vagina syndrome. And apparently this is like a common term. And yeah, I was I was hoping you would know that term. And then I could be like, see, like, you know what? I'm talking about something. Talk about
  • [28:55] Keith: something you think women would find offensive.
  • [28:59] Keith: I mean, that term sounds very, very offensive to me.
  • [29:26] Mike: So this is that this threat, I believe, is written by a woman. Let me read. Are the female version of death grip? Sometimes term to dead Vagina syndrome can be resolved. This and this gets quite technical here. By reducing the amount of time spent with high stimulus in the area, you can essentially retrain the clitoris and surrounding tissue to react to feeling again by switching up the way you stimulated. There are too many studies. But this is a general consensus formed by this one person that the
  • [29:34] Mike: but the issues continuously resolved with time and effort. Unless there are other underlying medical conditions and play here some links or both sets of genitalia and the waves could be helped.
  • [29:46] Mike: Um, I just like this this idea of, like, you know, stimulating like the bottom of the labia instead of the top. In order to wake, you retrain it. Thio too.
  • [29:49] Mike: Yeah. Enjoyed non vibrating stimulus again.
  • [29:55] Keith: You know the thing. This this goes back to the mail death grip for a second. Like the thing that immediately made me think is like,
  • [30:04] Keith: you know, one of the reasons one of the things that I think causes men to have this reaction is just like you're trying to get your nut out kind of quickly.
  • [30:13] Keith: So, like I was saying to myself, Okay, so if a man, because she said both genders and I thought, Oh, if well, if I wanted to do that, what would I imagine? Like a guy with, like, a feather or something. Like being really
  • [30:26] Keith: delicate with his Penis. And then I was thinking and I was like, What's the problem with that? And I immediately thought, Well, the problem with that is it will take four hours to ejaculated. And like for men, it's like, You're just, you know, you just want to You're just you're just applying lube to the engine there you don't.
  • [30:40] Keith: You're like the re young man men. This is, I think, a key sex difference. Although I think there are women that are like this, too. But But most men just need to ejaculate, like once every couple of days to otherwise like it starts to bother you.
  • [30:57] Keith: Where is I Don't think women typically feel that way. Um, anyway, so I just made me think of that. That's like another reason, and particularly for like, a young teenager like you could imagine a teenager gripping tighter and tighter because they're just trying to get off faster for women. I don't think it's that for women. I think it's,
  • [30:59] Keith: um
  • [31:03] Keith: it's just the technique they discover that helps them Orgasm varies
  • [31:09] Mike: Well, I think it often involves, like, fairly aggressive vibration coming from an electric motor.
  • [31:17] Keith: Yeah, there's okay. So we talked about this before A little before the show. There's the mainland I've heard of That would obviously make sense
  • [31:23] Keith: the mean when I've heard of his women who masturbate with, they lie on their stomachs,
  • [31:24] Keith: and I've actually never
  • [31:38] Keith: encountered a woman doing this. I don't think, although there's a I'm not sure, but I my conscious knowledge where I knew was going on. I haven't seen this, but you lie on your stomach, you have a pillow between your legs and you sort of hump the pillow
  • [31:49] Keith: and trying to think if there's a word for that. But it's incredibly common on the sex suburb that the women will say, Oh, this is the way I masturbate and, like the problem with it is that it's just not conducive it all to a partnered
  • [31:54] Keith: orgasm. Although I've wondered before if, like a man could enter from the back.
  • [31:55] Keith: Ah, and it would be. But
  • [31:57] Mike: oh, they're like prone, basically,
  • [32:12] Keith: yeah, but I still think that wouldn't work because like she needs that pillow like very, very accessible. And I think the man's body would force her to get on her knees a little bit and she wouldn't have anything against her cry. It would just be like you could use, like the arm of a sofa or something. It's gonna start getting really complicated really fast.
  • [32:29] Keith: And there. It's somewhat common for women on the sex Subreddit to have this technique and complain because they say, Well, I want to be able haven't orgasm with my partner but like my technique But I do have orgasms and these are women where I'm sure they are having orgasms because they have this very specific technique that gets them there.
  • [32:33] Keith: I have no doubt that they're actually having orgasms, but they're like,
  • [32:42] Keith: Oh, and also they're aware that they're not with their partner and they're like, Hey, you know, how can I do this? And the advice is similar to what you said, you know,
  • [32:49] Keith: kind of retraining, like basically stop doing that and start doing something else. And of course, the problem that women will have. Sometimes it's like they can't.
  • [32:54] Keith: They're unable to have an orgasm any other way, like so they stop doing that. But like nothing else works. Do
  • [33:00] Mike: you think you would be at all interested in sex if
  • [33:05] Mike: if you couldn't reach orgasm? Having it.
  • [33:08] Keith: That's a really good question. But I think that I think that question
  • [33:15] Keith: is another like, really, really, really significant male female difference. I think the answer for almost
  • [33:35] Keith: I don't You're the one who, like is like Oh, I just love cuddling after sex, which I can't tell Honestly, Keith, I can't tell whether that's I totally being honest here. I don't I think it's like, sort of a toss up in my head. Between that, you're telling the truth and that you have. You date a woman who listen to this podcast and you want to say that so she'll be like, OK, so great. I'm not sure
  • [33:37] Mike: that's such a great guy. Yeah,
  • [33:40] Keith: I just don't I'm not sure if I believe you, because it's like
  • [33:51] Keith: like my feelings after orgasm. So the opposite way that it's like hard from you, like and And I'm just applying this filter of like I'm assuming I'm pretty normal and so I'm like, Hey, can that be? But okay,
  • [33:56] Keith: but this is sort of this is sort of similar. It's like I just think that the vast majority of men
  • [34:11] Keith: God would not, would not want to and actually there's a separate thing that goes on, which is you get blue balls, right? So it's so like if you if I had to have sex for 15 minutes and I couldn't have an orgasm, it would actually be painful later. So I think I would be actively repelled by sex then.
  • [34:12] Keith: Yeah, right.
  • [34:13] Mike: I mean, I
  • [34:16] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that
  • [34:24] Mike: Yeah, I'm just trying to imagine a situation whereby I could orgasm easily by myself, but basically couldn't at all
  • [34:25] Mike: with a woman.
  • [34:35] Mike: You know, I mean something out of myself. Like, Look, there is a certain part of me that, like, once the other person to have pleasure, but I think I would be pretty frustrated,
  • [34:36] Mike: I think. I mean, I think that
  • [34:41] Keith: if if the situation was that I could have sex with them for a period of time and then go
  • [34:48] Keith: go on, masturbate somewhere else, and by the way, like this is not totally crazy thing. You can actually have this experience. Supposedly,
  • [35:04] Keith: there's some sort of middle ground in the rub and tug or a massage parlor industry. Where I mean, obviously they're the women who are basically operating his prostitutes. Yes, give you massage and then give you a hand job or whatever. But supposedly I've read that it is
  • [35:07] Keith: culturally acceptable in some places
  • [35:12] Keith: to get your massage, and then it's just, Yeah, the woman leaves and then you're going to masturbate
  • [35:13] Keith: and like, that
  • [35:17] Keith: s O if I had sex for, say, 30 minutes with someone and then I do something that
  • [35:21] Mike: they do something to basically fluff you and then they leave the room.
  • [35:24] Keith: Will they give you a massage, right? I mean, like
  • [35:24] Mike: like in most
  • [35:37] Keith: I mean, I'm not sure how many massages you've had, but when there's a woman giving you a massage like and I'm sorry, too, if there's a female misuse listening to this but like the truth is that, like when you're getting a massage from a woman, unless she's, like, really, really unattractive,
  • [35:44] Keith: like in most cases, the guy would be okay with it if you just get jerked him off after like it's it's,
  • [36:05] Keith: you know, like as a man as a man, like men never have their bodies like massage like that. It's not like a common experience like women. Maybe it's more common because their bodies are more attractive, but men like nobody ever massages your body. And so it's just so connected in your mind that, like it's your mind, go. I mean, I'm not sure if you had have you had the same experience while getting a massage from
  • [36:07] Mike: arrives? A woman
  • [36:08] Mike: arousal in just. But not just
  • [36:11] Keith: that, but just sort of a connection, like Oh,
  • [36:20] Keith: like you would be less like, Let's say that misuse is kind of unattractive. But after 30 minutes of being massaged by her, you'd probably be like, Okay, like, I'll have sex with you.
  • [36:33] Mike: Yeah, I'm trying to. So I I'm trying to think I get massage often because I run a lot, but it's all by men. I'm trying to think like I was in Southeast Asia last year for like, three or four months, and I got a ton of massages
  • [36:39] Mike: and they were mostly by women, but they were mostly by women, and they're like, you know, fifties or whatever.
  • [36:40] Mike: Um,
  • [36:40] Mike: I
  • [36:42] Keith: mean, these must
  • [36:49] Keith: I guess I'm just operating on a stereotype here, but I'm assuming that in Southeast Asia, like those, you have a high propensity for those to be places you could Yeah, I don't
  • [36:58] Mike: know if you So here's where you go. Like if you're in, like, a like a tourist neighborhood. I think not. Just because
  • [36:58] Mike: they don't want
  • [36:59] Keith: that. I could see that going.
  • [37:04] Mike: You could take going either way, like on one hand. Yeah. You know, certain tourists would be like So,
  • [37:15] Mike: ah, gassed of something like that was happening that they don't want to risk, you know, confusion or irritating someone. And then, on the other hand, because of the stereotypes, some people might be sort of like
  • [37:25] Mike: expecting that. And anyway, I'm not sure, exactly. But I was not I don't know if I've had, like, a massage from a
  • [37:32] Mike: a woman who was sufficiently attractive for me. Really? To test or no, this hypothesis.
  • [37:34] Keith: Okay, So you're actually saying No, that, like you there is.
  • [37:37] Mike: I'm not sure I've had that experience,
  • [37:40] Mike: but I'm not saying I wouldn't be
  • [37:42] Mike: at least mildly aroused either. Like, I just don't know.
  • [37:47] Keith: Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's just I have noticed mentally that it, like
  • [38:02] Keith: they're like, Yeah, I mean, it's sort of obvious, but it sort of decreases the boundary between you and the person because they're they're like like rubbing your body. And anyway, so there's so supposedly there are places where it's just called culturally understood that, like
  • [38:14] Keith: the woman's, the misuse is going to leave the room, and you will either go to the bathroom and masturbate or just masturbate so they give you extra time. What it was like sort of cultural, understood that this is what I read. Maybe these air just dudes. You just do it even though it's not culturally reasonable.
  • [38:26] Keith: Maybe everyone doesn't. Maybe in all massage places, guys just jerk off afterward like, you know, honestly, that now they think because they do leave the room and tell you to get dressed and it's like, Well, I mean like,
  • [38:26] Keith: but the point
  • [38:34] Mike: is like, I think I don't like jerking off when I'm in a rush. Um, that this occurs sometimes when
  • [38:54] Mike: ah, yeah, like maybe it's been a few days and yeah, I'm getting to like the point of irritability, and I haven't really had, like, a good time to do it and then, like, I sort of want to do it. But I don't know, like maybe I'm doing something where I don't want to deal with that irritability. Um, and now I have to, like, jerk off in a Russian. Yeah, and I don't know, I don't like that. I don't like that feeling
  • [38:54] Mike: This
  • [38:59] Keith: this goes along. This This reminds me of the 40 year old Virgin where
  • [39:01] Keith: he's gonna masturbate me like
  • [39:01] Keith: candles and
  • [39:08] Mike: everything. I don't like the Kennedy music, like the light, right and all that kind of stuff, but
  • [39:19] Mike: yeah, I mean, I guess if I was at a massage parlor and I just got massaged by a Victoria's Secret model and she's left the room and she's like, you know, you could put your clothes back on now? Yeah. I don't know. I I
  • [39:26] Mike: I mean, if I was sufficiently aroused, okay? It's not gonna be a problem, but yeah, it's I can imagine not.
  • [39:29] Mike: I can imagine wishing I had more time.
  • [39:33] Keith: Okay. But but but But what From relevant to discussion here
  • [39:34] Keith: the
  • [39:39] Keith: like. You said you asked as a guy, would you want to have sex
  • [39:51] Keith: at all if you couldn't orgasm. And I think the answer is I think the general answers and no, but I'm saying if you could have sex with a woman
  • [39:53] Keith: that you're attracted to and then
  • [39:54] Keith: masturbate
  • [40:16] Keith: soon afterward. I think that could be fun. Like, I think they'll agree. I think that that wouldn't bother me. I'd be like, Oh, this because Because I would What would happen is I would be like, it's some sort of fantasising thing like you would have all these memories from the thing that happened five minutes ago and like that, would you would be fine and you would have your orgasm and you wouldn't be frustrated. And, you know, you probably I prefer to have it with her, but I don't know. It could be
  • [40:19] Keith: actually, now that I think about it, like I wonder if it would.
  • [40:26] Keith: They're probably almost no women that would agree to this, but it's kind of interesting to see, like, if it if,
  • [40:30] Keith: because I mean, for example, you wouldn't have to deal with them after you orgasm,
  • [40:51] Keith: right? You like? So I I realize you really deeply enjoy dealing with another human being right after you orgasm. But many potentially most men, don't it. So I'm wondering if, like, actually, yeah, basically being being sort of intensively fluffed and then just being like, Okay, honey, can you go. Leave now and I take it or don't whatever.
  • [40:58] Keith: Yeah, maybe that actually could be even superior in some ways. Um, but you're
  • [41:00] Keith: core point you were making,
  • [41:11] Keith: which was, you know, is orgasm essential to enjoying sex for a man, the answer is yes, I think it is, Andi. Honestly, like, I think that for women,
  • [41:31] Keith: it's obviously less important for women in that there's a series of reasons. I think that makes sense, including biologically like, um, you know, the male orgasm is necessary. To have a kid in the female orgasm is not. But that being said, I think that there is a Laura. I think there's a large court of women who also are pretty unsatisfied if they don't have enough gas.
  • [41:43] Mike: Yeah, I think so. I think it depends on the woman. I mean, yes, some women have never had one. So and you know, it still report that it enjoyed sex. And then on the other side of the spectrum, there's women who are, you know, basically just like men in terms of their
  • [41:46] Mike: orgasm chasing.
  • [41:56] Mike: Sure. Okay, let's move on. Uh, so there was this thread, and I think you read it. It was posted a while ago, and it got actually removed. But
  • [42:02] Mike: there's this thing called removed it. Which caches? Old reddit threads.
  • [42:09] Mike: Um, anyway, eh, So this person has a P s A, uh, What is P s again? Public service announcement.
  • [42:16] Mike: That's right. Sex tips for casual flings with strangers. And this is for men from a woman.
  • [42:23] Mike: She says there's a few interesting things about it. All of the tips she gives, I think are worth litigating. And then
  • [42:23] Mike: cartel
  • [42:29] Keith: just like hygiene. Uh, like I remember, like skimming this
  • [42:30] Keith: kind of being irritated?
  • [42:42] Mike: No, some of them are, but Okay. Anyway, let me just read. All right? Uh, the first. Well, okay. Sorry. I decided to make this post not as erotica or bragging or whatever, but just because I've noticed the same issues with a lot of hookups lately.
  • [42:51] Mike: So just treat this as a General P s A. With the caveat that every person is different and you should just communicate. Basically, if you're hooking up with someone you don't know
  • [42:58] Mike: if you're again with someone you don't know well, from our for our or tender isn't our for our dead. That was the Craigslist thing.
  • [43:02] Keith: Yeah. I mean, there's there's, like, Raina, Max a blowjob. Those things.
  • [43:05] Keith: Yeah, and e. I don't I don't think those things are really
  • [43:22] Mike: all right. So if you're hooking up with someone, you might benefit from reading this background. Okay, this is incredible. And I want to talk about this. I sleep with about 10 guys a week, on average. Seven in the last five days, all my sex is arranged on tinder and is on a casual basis. Only
  • [43:25] Mike: that can't. That can't be true.
  • [43:28] Keith: Well, I mean, it can. It's like it's physically. But
  • [43:32] Mike: let's say let's say Arkan, is it really?
  • [43:33] Keith: Yeah,
  • [43:42] Keith: like an attractive woman, Could I mean, look the right analogy for this. The right way to analyze this is if you want to understand any sort of sexual
  • [43:50] Keith: possibility for woman. Just imagine it's a gay man. Yeah, that's attractive. That's attractive. I realize men also care about attractive. I
  • [43:59] Mike: don't I don't I don't debate whether I don't doubt she confined 10 people willing to have sex with her in a week. Ah,
  • [44:02] Mike: but like just the legit, that logistics alone are complicated.
  • [44:03] Mike: Um,
  • [44:11] Keith: sure. I mean, it's It's made someone like you don't have something like a bathhouse you could go to and just have, like, repeated. I mean,
  • [44:19] Keith: although there are, like frat houses like that's, you know, for an attractive woman who's willing to have sex, a frat house probably is effectively a bath house, right? Yeah.
  • [44:20] Keith: I mean, I'm not sure, like, I think you
  • [44:26] Mike: just go. You could go from room three a two. Room three, B two room for two? Yeah. I mean, she could.
  • [44:45] Keith: I mean, like like the like. Yeah, like the only reason that might not work is because the guys will become suspicious because it's so insane, Right? Like that's so so such an unusual behavior. But I mean, like which which gets the next point, which is, like, this is obviously, like, mental illness or something, right? Like, let's let's assume it's true because it's ah,
  • [44:58] Keith: If it's not true, then it's like, Okay, this is just somebody posting like a thing toe. Stir up the debate or whatever. Just mess around with people. If it is true, like it's this is somebody who's not yet not right in the head, and the way you know that is because, like
  • [45:03] Keith: none of us and none of the listeners this show have ever encountered a woman doing this,
  • [45:05] Keith: You know, if you have them, please. You know,
  • [45:11] Keith: let's we want to talk to you, but I or if you're a woman who does this, But the truth is, you have because this is not common. I'm
  • [45:14] Mike: trying to imagine so she must be, you know,
  • [45:16] Mike: I mean, she she really likes sex.
  • [45:25] Mike: It must all be with condoms, right, Cause if it's not with condoms, there's, like, three amount of material in there. The others logistics problem. They're like, I don't know what
  • [45:27] Keith: I think. It's fair to assume she's using
  • [45:30] Mike: what volume? They're like vaginal cavity could hold, but, you know
  • [45:35] Keith: Oh, no. But it all comes out right. I mean, like it Okay, it doesn't all come out. I realized there is.
  • [45:46] Keith: There's the women who sort of bizarrely or, I think semi grossly say that they enjoy sitting on the subway four hours later and feeling his semen still lingering around their vagina.
  • [45:56] Mike: Yeah. I mean, this is probably another topic for another time, but like, yeah, like, where does it go like, what percentage comes out like, can they, uh, force it out and some sort of used leading
  • [45:59] Keith: the vast majority comes out quickly. But
  • [46:01] Mike: if they wanted to Yeah, I think so.
  • [46:07] Keith: No, no, not even if they don't want. I mean, if you like, by wanting it to You mean if they stand up, then? Yeah,
  • [46:10] Keith: well,
  • [46:22] Keith: if it looks like you're here, like, pinch shut close, Okay? I don't really know. Of course not. Because if you do know, because if they could, then there would be no need for, like, products for your period.
  • [46:24] Keith: Well, they just like e.
  • [46:28] Mike: I thought the volume of blood was higher than the volume of cement or something.
  • [46:29] Mike: I think
  • [46:39] Keith: it is. But it's not that much of the problem with blood, of course, is that it? And it's not just blood. There's, like, other junk in there, But it Ah, it, um,
  • [46:43] Keith: it you know, it's colored. It stains and stuff like it's not. It's not a very helpful. If it was
  • [47:07] Mike: it clear. You know, nothing has sex with a man and then, like, let's say, let's say you're like at ah, let's say you're on a beach, Resorts, okay. And you have. You know, it's it's after launching up sex, and now you're gonna put on your bikini and go down to the beach. Ah, do they? Yeah, like, can they get all of the semen out in such a way that they're sure that they're you know, they're not gonna
  • [47:13] Mike: let's say they're wearing, like, a bikini, that sheer in some way, so that if there's moisture, it's it's obvious,
  • [47:18] Mike: like a sister concern for them. I'd like to make sure you get it all out or like like, how does that work?
  • [47:18] Mike: It's not a
  • [47:22] Keith: particular concern, because if you look at bikinis there, like designed to correct for this,
  • [47:25] Mike: I think there's a little liner there.
  • [47:28] Keith: There is. It's not that that liner is not particular
  • [47:33] Keith: for other reasons, too, because women have discharged all the time. And so look, the question the right question to ask is like,
  • [47:41] Keith: Could you get enough seeming out thus such that the remaining semen is just sort of like normal discharge, and the answer is like, more or less Yes,
  • [47:45] Keith: so you're not yet you're not, and in no women can't shut their vagina.
  • [47:46] Mike: Okay,
  • [47:48] Mike: today I learned today it would be practical
  • [47:56] Keith: if they could. Like I mean, that would like. I think that's like a genetic modification that many women might actually think was pretty cool. Because then, like you,
  • [48:03] Keith: you wouldn't you would just be like it's like, Oh, I have my period, but I've shut my vagina. Yeah, I'm gonna be, like going to the bathroom.
  • [48:11] Mike: Depend how it works. Like I can stop myself from pooping when I need to. But, I mean, I guess we promised we weren't gonna go here this episode, but it's uncomfortable
  • [48:12] Keith: you could do Is
  • [48:17] Mike: uncomfortable to hold it in. Yeah. Or P. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. Good. Good. Safe. Yeah.
  • [48:20] Mike: I mean, it doesn't have to be scared long periods of time. Yeah. It
  • [48:29] Keith: doesn't have to be scatological to say that. Like, that's like, the fact that you have a sphincter, makes anal sex trickier and may be painful and imagine birthing a baby through Uranus.
  • [48:32] Keith: Right? So there's benefits toe having
  • [48:36] Keith: the diff a different kind of musculature around the vagina. Okay.
  • [48:47] Keith: Anyway, that was just the prelude here, so I don't think I'm sure it's safe to say that this person would use condoms. And I actually think that, um, she could
  • [48:50] Keith: pretty straight forwardly using. Tried taking a shower,
  • [48:57] Keith: Sort of clean herself out enough and off enough that like, there'd be no even even if she was having sex multiple times a day. I don't think necessarily a guy would know.
  • [48:58] Mike: Okay,
  • [49:00] Mike: even if they weren't using condoms.
  • [49:22] Keith: Yeah, that's right. I think the one caveat to that is I think that as a man, if you were somewhat astute and you were giving her oral sex like your tongue in your nose as you, as you know, from living a life are like, really, really sensitive. Yeah. And so I do think that, like your tongue, you'd be like, ha. Something doesn't taste right here.
  • [49:33] Mike: Yeah, well, and as a seaman, taste kind of sore yourself. You might be particularly sensitive that I think I might be able to taste latex as well, though.
  • [49:36] Mike: Oh, for whatever. Actually, homicidal lubricant is that
  • [49:47] Keith: I actually think that's amore. That's in some ways, a more astute observation is like, Yeah, I actually think the latex smell might take longer to get rid of. And like, that would be a giveaway. That she was doing there,
  • [49:49] Keith: although what percentage of men would care
  • [49:55] Mike: well and like, what percentage of men are? Uh, she might not be having, like,
  • [50:03] Mike: long experiences here, like she might just be showing up and saying like, Let's go here and so that, you know, there's like less men actually going down on her.
  • [50:09] Keith: Yeah. I mean, one of my frameworks is that, like men are in general much grosser than you think. So it's like
  • [50:36] Keith: there's all kinds of situations where I just sort of picture Amanda Starr shrugging his shoulders and pulling his pants down. And I think women like I don't know if there's some equivalent to mansplaining The women do. But I've had women many times to me, sort of women Splain that no guys wouldn't do that. Men are just sort of like like us, like they were sort of picky, and I'm like none. And, uh, if there was a situation where you like to know that you won't get caught and there's a woman that's like it's like if there was a woman like caught in a
  • [50:39] Keith: you know, it's, um, sort of like a have a heart trap
  • [50:45] Keith: like you know something where she can't. And I think there is, like, porn of this. Of course, it's point of this.
  • [50:51] Keith: There's a lot of men would be like, uh well, I'll rescue her. But for some of us have sex of right,
  • [50:53] Keith: like, men are pretty gross. Unfortunately,
  • [50:55] Mike: Yeah, I've been
  • [51:05] Mike: Yeah. I think they're just not nearly discern it yet, so I mean, yeah, maybe this is real. Okay, well, all right. I'm gonna start reading some of her her tips here, um,
  • [51:23] Mike: trying to figure out where to start, cause we're I don't know if we have time to get through all of these, but, um okay. So that her first hip is I've never been with a guy who rubs my clit to gently. Seriously, if you're ever thinking, should I rub it with more or less force? Start with less force, especially. She's drying. You're trying to get her wet.
  • [51:25] Mike: Um,
  • [52:01] Keith: finishing of getting someone wet. I think it's a little bit is a little bit of a tell that maybe it's not a woman, but yeah, that's interests just because just because, like, I don't think I don't think that's really how that like, yeah, men have this tendency, I think, to think of things all of life is a video game. It's like a combination that compress that will cause her to drip witness. And many, many times a woman would already be wet if she was excited. And there are women who have less lubrication, naturally. But like, I don't know if rubbing their clip is like any sort of surefire like like kissing them, it might be better, you know? And so it's sort of like anyway, going
  • [52:03] Mike: Okay. All right, so that was that was
  • [52:07] Keith: a Iot. But I agree with, like, the sentiment there, I think is accurate in the sense of like, uh,
  • [52:09] Keith: yeah, it's probably right. But like you, uh,
  • [52:11] Mike: yeah, I'm sure
  • [52:17] Mike: start with way too much force and are confused. And then, yeah, I'm guessing
  • [52:25] Mike: some women might might feel uncomfortable giving negative feedback and let make a sense because grit their teeth and Barrett,
  • [52:28] Keith: like men, have the experience of a woman being too gentle.
  • [52:28] Keith: And so
  • [52:29] Mike: they're like
  • [52:31] Mike: there might be wrong. Yeah. And frankly,
  • [52:37] Keith: like I've thought about this before, I know you probably have it, but I've thought about the fact that Ah!
  • [52:41] Keith: Ah. This is probably an issue with gay guys to go on,
  • [52:51] Keith: just like the notion that, like, Okay, the way of the situation I thought about it is like, let's say I was jerking off someone else. So I didn't have the tactile feedback. I suspect I would do it to gently.
  • [52:53] Mike: Oh, I see.
  • [53:06] Keith: Because I wouldn't. I would I would I actually, because I put it. Let me put this differently. I suspect that you grip your Penis. This is kind of cool to test, actually, with like, a force here. I suspect you grip your Penis way harder than you think you do when you think
  • [53:09] Mike: you're right. Yeah, but yeah. I mean, it's
  • [53:14] Mike: getting the location exactly right. I think it's important.
  • [53:17] Keith: Oh, sure, but I But I also think like like,
  • [53:22] Keith: yeah, I think I think you would surprise yourself like the number of pounds of force or whatever.
  • [53:31] Mike: I think so, too. I think I probably do use more force than like somebody else's intuition would be to use. But if they misapply it, I think that would be
  • [53:33] Mike: Pat.
  • [53:36] Keith: Oh, yeah, of course. Right. If they're if they're just like
  • [53:39] Keith: sandpaper in the head of your conquers. That
  • [53:54] Mike: uh Okay. All right, I'm gonna go in here. I can't believe this needs to be said, but just because you've brushed your teeth and rinse your mouth doesn't mean I won't be able to taste the garlic Slash whatever dodgy thing you ate earlier in the day. So if you feel like your hookup would not appreciate the taste of garlic, Maybe don't eat it 24 hours before you have sex.
  • [53:55] Mike: That's
  • [54:01] Keith: that. I remember this one in that one second me because I can't. I don't understand
  • [54:04] Keith: how I don't understand
  • [54:07] Keith: if if I was going to have sex with a zillion people like that
  • [54:16] Keith: quickly. Uh, the last thing I would want to do is kiss them on the mouth. Maybe that's just me, but that's just revolting to me. Yeah,
  • [54:21] Keith: I would much rather like put my Penis in their mouth and kissed him on the mouth because it's like I don't even know you. Yeah,
  • [54:30] Mike: I mean, this was like the thing was like, basically the main plot of pretty woman, right? Um yeah, Like kissing has, like, an intimacy, but
  • [54:30] Mike: well,
  • [54:33] Keith: you can get even get the Corona virus, you could get diseases.
  • [54:38] Mike: That's true. So you're probably getting the corona virus if you're fucking them anyway,
  • [54:42] Keith: because you're kissing them. Now, if you if you if you just get on the p I that is
  • [54:51] Mike: probably true. I bet Corona virus is more easily transmitted through saliva. Unless you're in a restaurant. Yeah.
  • [54:52] Mike: Okay,
  • [54:54] Mike: here's a P ece.
  • [54:57] Mike: You had no kissing on the sex.
  • [55:14] Mike: Yeah. Okay. All right. So keep your mouth. Yeah. I mean, look, paying attention. What you eat for 24 hours on the possibility might have sex. Seems like a little bit of a pain. And garlic and onion like taste. Good. So that's that's a little bit to give up. I've actually been in this situation many times, actually, Like, you know, I did quite a bit and
  • [55:27] Mike: yeah, like, let's say you go to, like, let's say you're on, like, in early date, and you go to, you know, a restaurant that has normal food, like it's really common for tohave like garlic or onion. And if, like you're not sharing,
  • [55:34] Mike: uh might be polite not to order items with those things, and I don't know that could be sort of annoying sometimes, depending on where you're eating.
  • [55:38] Keith: I would think this is a key benefit of
  • [55:43] Keith: maybe something like white claw, but of hard liquor. More generally, the likes of you,
  • [55:51] Keith: It doesn't take that many hard liquor. Hard liquor would be better, but hard liquor drinks to basically cleanse. I mean, actually, just nukes
  • [56:04] Mike: actually have opinion on that. So I think the reason why garlic and onions sort of, like, lingers in your mouth as I think it, like, gets in between your teeth and, like, sort of binds to the plaque there. I think you I think if you could,
  • [56:08] Mike: I think you should floss. And that gets rid of
  • [56:24] Mike: Maur than whatever alcohol or I mean, mouthwash helps is well, but, like, I don't know if you've had this experience lately or if you paid attention, but yeah, like if you eat something like garlic naan and then you brush your teeth like that doesn't really
  • [56:29] Mike: It helps a lot, but it doesn't. It doesn't fix it. I think you actually need to floss.
  • [56:40] Keith: Yeah. I mean, I floss regularly so it wouldn't be able to tell the difference, because I don't I floss enough that if I don't floss like I can tell my comes, don't feel right, so I wouldn't know that. But but I will say
  • [56:44] Mike: that it immediately floss after every meal
  • [56:45] Mike: there. There are people that do
  • [56:56] Keith: I've seen. I've seen that behavior, actually, people that like keep flaws and go to the bathroom and do it. It's unusual, but I have eaten at a restaurant before an Italian restaurant where they served,
  • [57:08] Keith: um, minced garlic with bread and butter and olive oil and you could eat. So I like garlic. And so I ate a lot of that garlic before
  • [57:10] Keith: sort of raw, minced garlic and
  • [57:17] Keith: flossing would not have fixed that. Like like First of all, it's something. It'll give you a stomachache at some level. So you gotta be a little careful. But
  • [57:20] Keith: you could like, I think it was coming out of my pores
  • [57:24] Keith: subsequently, like, I don't think there was anything you could possibly do. So I think you could take it to a level
  • [57:34] Mike: where, yeah, I mean, look, you probably don't go to that restaurant on a first date, but yeah, I mean, there's garlic and onion and a lot of like if you have a cheeseburger, there's usually Onion, you know, so for anyway,
  • [57:46] Mike: let's just let's let's were fun. Ah, okay. This person says, if I'm blowing you and I'm making an effort to look up into your eyes, which is, by the way not as easy as porn makes it look,
  • [58:03] Mike: then maybe look down once in a while and or acknowledge it. Otherwise, I find that a lot of guys just stare anywhere but in my eyes when I'm blowing them. So yeah, a few things here. So she's having sex with people 10 guys a week on average. It's strange that she is interested in making sort of intimate eye contact with them while blowing them. But
  • [58:08] Mike: setting aside like the unrealistic nous of this post generally Ah,
  • [58:18] Mike: yeah, yeah, there's like a mechanical thing here, like you have to, like, angle your mouth in such a way where you can, like, tilt your head back to, like, look up at the person that seems difficult.
  • [58:23] Keith: Well, yeah, for her. But she's That's the point. She, if it is a woman, is making
  • [58:24] Keith: appreciate the
  • [58:26] Mike: next contortion I'm doing here,
  • [58:35] Keith: right and then, and the reaction you gave us the exact right one, like the reason why the guy isn't looking in her eyes is because the situation is creepy.
  • [58:44] Keith: It's like he's looking he like he's sort of sheepish on some level. He's like, Look, I'm getting blown by this person I met definitely should not be blowing.
  • [58:45] Keith: Yeah,
  • [58:50] Mike: yeah, she's making it more intimate than the situation. Sort of, uh,
  • [58:51] Mike: implode and
  • [59:02] Keith: look like if you do that as a woman, like a thing to know is like, you're definitely whether you want to or not. And this is how I feel about, like, a lot of this one night stand stuff in these women who will say women generally will say, Oh, I
  • [59:03] Keith: I'm, uh
  • [59:08] Keith: I'm a control. I can do this whenever I want. Sure, that's definitely true. However,
  • [59:13] Keith: when you do that, you're definitely setting up a power dynamic where you were,
  • [59:21] Keith: you were the other with a guy is more powerful, like you're basically because you're being the reason why is you're giving the guy the thing that he wants immediately,
  • [59:28] Keith: and whether you like it or not, you're not getting the thing that culturally women typically
  • [59:29] Keith: want
  • [59:44] Keith: in exchange And so you're setting up this sort of weird part of parenting power dynamic. Whether or not you're a woman who just really likes one night stands, that's fine. It's just that, like, culturally, the man is gonna see it this way. And so one of the reasons he's not looking you in the eyes because he doesn't perceive you as an equal.
  • [59:52] Keith: He's like he's sort of like, Look like he's looking. He sort of looks down on you, which actually has the effect of not looking down it. Yeah, he's looking somewhere else anyway.
  • [59:57] Mike: Yeah, I mean, this person has some issues.
  • [60:05] Mike: Generally, it sounds like or they're just lying. I can't tie them. I'm like, leaning 70% toward lying. But it sounds
  • [60:07] Keith: like, for example, it could be a woman
  • [60:12] Keith: who has frustrations with partners and wanted to
  • [60:22] Keith: air them in a way that people would actually read the post and so basically created this unrealistic scenario until I kind of make as an envelope around the complaints in the hopes of getting more responses. Yeah, it could be
  • [60:23] Mike: that good.
  • [60:28] Mike: Um, okay. There's, like, three more tips here, but let's just do one more this one.
  • [60:36] Mike: Okay, Variations in positions generate radically different depth. So just because I was okay being fucked, hard to say
  • [60:51] Mike: in regularly and regular missionary doesn't mean you can just flip my legs up over my shoulders and proceed to do the exact same thing with the same level of speed and force. The latter position makes you go much deeper, and I probably need more time to adjust. The inverse is true for dollar game. My experience regular doggy makes you go deeper.
  • [61:03] Mike: And it's harder to take if your large. But if you do a kind of angle doggy, where you're basically lying on top of me and I'm more or less flat against the sheets that I can usually adjust. But yeah, just be aware that these little movements to make a huge difference.
  • [61:08] Mike: I'm not sure I had internalized that.
  • [61:11] Keith: Well, you know why?
  • [61:13] Mike: Well, what's it
  • [61:16] Mike: why you hadn't internalized?
  • [61:19] Mike: Why don't you just say it, Mike?
  • [61:22] Keith: Well, I think that Penis size makes a difference here.
  • [61:27] Keith: What an apple this is. This is definitely a thing I'm very, very, very aware of. And I don't think that I like Ivan.
  • [61:28] Keith: Whatever.
  • [61:37] Keith: There's a certain size Penis. Maybe it's a certain size woman. I don't know. We're like, you become very aware of this. And yes, like the there's like, positions where you bought him out. And there's positions where you don't.
  • [61:44] Mike: Yeah, of course. But, like, Yeah, I guess I didn't I don't know what it feels like. Look, if you're going in
  • [61:49] Mike: ah, to the hilt, as they say, like, Yeah, like that. I don't know.
  • [61:51] Keith: I mean, I like, honestly, I think it's better. I
  • [61:52] Mike: think it would be, Yeah, I think it
  • [61:57] Keith: would be better to have a Penis that didn't bought him out. Because, for example,
  • [62:00] Keith: when you have a Penis size that bottoms out or whatever Penis
  • [62:06] Keith: and vagina size doesn't you know, it's like the combination that matters, right? It makes it so there's certain positions, like that sort of legs.
  • [62:13] Keith: Uh, whatever. Legs, not legs over your shoulders. But you know what I mean? Like the position where the woman is sort of like a little bit of a pretzel.
  • [62:16] Keith: You can't just pound away in that position.
  • [62:22] Mike: Yeah, you'll notice in porn. Actually, quite often the woman will, like, put her hands on the man's legs
  • [62:32] Mike: and I think she's saying like, Hey, dude, like she is it's actually a little awkward to watch sometimes because you can tell that, you know, yeah, it makes it obvious that it's fake
  • [62:34] Mike: or it's just being done for the camera anyway,
  • [62:50] Keith: right? So So what happens is you have a limited set of positions where you can have an orgasm while just sort of like going as deep as you want. And that is an example of a position and there doggy style positions that are like that, too, where you simply cannot do that because it's like I mean, you If you
  • [62:58] Keith: you could you would just have to totally not care about your partner or have them like, take some sedative. I assume it's really painful, Like I think I think it is.
  • [63:03] Mike: Well, she talks about warming up like there's
  • [63:10] Keith: Yeah, well, the vagina. That that's really the vagina. Like tents, right? Like it grow it. Thespians in there grows in the service
  • [63:11] Mike: that
  • [63:12] Mike: lets get further away.
  • [63:14] Keith: Yes,
  • [63:18] Keith: this is just like basic biology, right? Like yeah, it does.
  • [63:26] Keith: And so and so if the woman's super aroused, you could go deeper. But I don't think I don't think, like, you know, we're not talking like four inches deeper. We're talking like an inch.
  • [63:32] Mike: Sure, but yeah, I mean, that could make a material difference. And her hands and your
  • [63:45] Keith: Yeah, but it's tricky. I mean, like, like I said, I actually think like there's an optimal size and the size is just the optimal size is, like, just short of being able to bottom out, ever. Although that being said, I think there are women that like it when a guy bottoms out.
  • [63:47] Mike: Well, yeah, some people
  • [63:50] Mike: like pain more than others, but
  • [63:56] Keith: yeah, and it's always see, this is always tricky because there are many, many women who are sort of accommodating and might decide
  • [63:59] Keith: that they like a thing that they probably don't. But you know,
  • [63:59] Mike: But look,
  • [64:01] Keith: you can decide you like something that
  • [64:08] Keith: you know. It's like an acquired taste. You could call it that you like. I like I started liking it. Okay. You know, I mean, who's to say yeah,
  • [64:11] Keith: like some people like pain
  • [64:11] Keith: makes them.
  • [64:22] Mike: Yeah, but there's certain kinds of pain that are different than others. I don't know, Like I don't have a cervix. That's what it feels like. Having my cervix smashed would be painful in a way that isn't fun.
  • [64:28] Keith: There are women who claim they like that. They're they're definitely women who are like that. That's that's my favorite thing is having my cervix hit,
  • [64:29] Mike: you know?
  • [64:36] Mike: Um, okay, I need to go to the track. Do you think? Do we have time for one more?
  • [64:38] Keith: One more? I don't think so. We've already done an hour and
  • [64:45] Mike: find out okay, All right, We'll probably probably an hour. I'll wrap this up then and maybe we'll start the next episode of this person's less to
  • [64:48] Mike: sex tips for the media.
  • [64:52] Mike: All right, so that's a wrap on Episode 14 of your mileage may vary