Your Mileage May Vary: 99th Percentile Dating, 2900 First Dates, Male Sex Dolls, The (Female) Orgasm Whisperer

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith I haven't had time to collate our usual list of spicy topics to chat about today but I do know I want to talk about the slippery slope of ass eating I am Keith my co-host is mike.
[00:15] Mike: Go lord.
[00:19] Keith: Okay, Mike I have a new theory that I want to run by you are you ready for this? Um, so I think you and I I think you are somewhat skeptical that my sexual encounters result in the female orgasming.
[00:20] Mike: All right? yes.
[00:39] Keith: As much as I claim to claim that they claim.
[00:43] Mike: Yeah, it's yeah I'm not I'm not disputing necessarily what you say I'm saying that I think that you in early sexual encounters like most men encounter women who fake orgasms to to make it look like they had more fun than they did.
[00:56] Keith: Correct I I concede that may be the case I I do not know I Only know right right? right? I'm not uniquely bad at sex. It's just that because excuse me.
[01:02] Mike: Oh and I think it happens to me too it it has happened in my life too like I'm not saying it's unique to you in any way I think you're probably normal or you you're actually probably better than normal I mean yeah, no you I I mean how could you not be better than normal as a sex podcast co-host I mean you're.
[01:20] Keith: That's right I mean where we've done so much research on this topic. Everything there is to know I know. Okay, anyway, um, okay, here's my theory I think that women I think because I am not as sex focused.
[01:21] Mike: Yeah, it's true. Actually.
[01:38] Keith: On early dates as most men are by the time I actually get a woman into bed. She is more comfortable than the average woman is on her average first sexual encounter with a man.
[01:54] Mike: Yeah, so I mean I think that um I think that's a really nice theory that the challenge I would see to that theory is ah so if you then follow that up by saying and as part of that I have spent platonically or like just. Holding hands and watching movies and going to museums with each woman more than 10 hours. Ah before we have sex or 20 or whatever some number that's really high compared to what most men do. But I think then I would sort of agree with you. But I think that I think and the reality is that like it's There's a quantity over quality or.
[02:17] Keith: Um, and.
[02:29] Mike: Quantity may be more important here than in fact I think it is more important than quality. So while you're basically arguing look. It's like um I think about this sometimes when I'm like going to bed really late and I have to get up early. There was this comic book I read it was a batman when I was like in sixth grade and in this Batman Batman had learned how to like sleep really efficiently.
[02:47] Keith: Um, okay yeah.
[02:47] Mike: He'd like gone to some like mountain in the himalayas from a monk. He's like I am the world's best sleeper and needs like like 2 hours and be and so I will yeah I think you're thinking that you can do something like that with the time you spend platonically with these women that you're like you're so effective that you comfort them.
[03:02] Keith: I Mean can I argue that it's just a matter of the difference between time I've spent versus you've spent and so our our own anecdotal subjective experiences in my experience. It's possible that they're more comfortable than you and your average experience.
[03:19] Mike: I mean I think my average experience is the same as yours that the women seem to have a lot of fun early early sexual encounters right? I mean so I don't think I have any difference there I Just think that I so I think the right approach would be in terms of hours of platonic.
[03:30] Keith: Um, yeah.
[03:37] Mike: Spending time together before you the first purported orgasm by her. Do you think your number of hours is higher or lower than the average guy with woman I think it's lower. Yeah see okay.
[03:44] Keith: Well, of course it's lower. But that's because you know I'm a coastal elite and the sort of sexual norms and speed at which things develop is like massively accelerated versus you know some place like Middle America
[03:58] Mike: Okay, but I mean just like if you if you if you if you take your ego off the table which is or both of us take our egos off the table I Just think the reality is if you did like a correlation between quantity and quality here I think quantity is going to be the.
[04:02] Keith: Or another country good luck with that.
[04:16] Mike: In these types of situations in my life quantity like the more observable measurable quantity tends to be the right one and like some squishy notion of quality I don't know so like yeah I think the most.
[04:16] Keith: Harp.
[04:23] Keith: Um, okay.
[04:26] Keith: You don't think I'm better at making women comfortable with me than the average man. Well even if I am you think it doesn't matter.
[04:32] Mike: I think it's going to be not in a rounding error but it's going to matter. It's going to matter less than quantity and since you've admitted your quantity is almost certainly lower like the situation where I would go the opposite way is if you said something like look I had this woman we were really. Hyperracted each other but we like held off for a month and we hung out again and again or like you're young or whatever. So you're not sure whatever then yeah I mean I think the woman could just have an explosive orgasm on the first sexual encounter because she's so pent up and excited for you. But that's right, that's a matter of quantity then. It's going the opposite direction if that was your m o.
[05:10] Keith: I just feel like there's probably big differences in male ah behavior leading up to a first sexual encounter I bet some men are more alpha and more dominant or more more. Co. Coercive than I am and so women end up in bed. Maybe before they're absolutely comfortable doing so and I think I am less coercive and I wonder if that could make a big difference.
[05:41] Mike: So Yeah I mean I I guess I would argue it could but I don't think it does I think unfortunately yeah I just diametrically disagree on this one I think that um first of all I think that being less Alpha is probably somewhat negative. Actually like if the woman's really into you being more Alpha is probably better just because it's going to turn her on more just like a more attractive woman will turn a guy on more and yeah and then it's like so then it's just in' and you're saying oh she's really comfortable and it's like look I think no I think essentially no woman really wants to have Sex. Ah.
[06:01] Keith: Yeah, yeah I consider that as I was saying it? yeah.
[06:16] Mike: I know I would get I'll get feedback on this because women will say oh well sometimes we're just horny and it's like okay that's true, but like I mean if they're out seeking a relationship. No woman wants to have sex with a guy on the second date. That's not what they that she's doing it because she's like oh this guy's cool and if I don't do this. He's going to dump me. He's going to ghost me which is actually a.
[06:34] Keith: Yeah, but they would never get that impression from me because I don't coerce at all like there's just I mean you're right that they're they're saddled by what they think the cultural norms are and what they think I might expect but I think that most men.
[06:36] Mike: Probably you know realistic risk. Well I don't yes yes.
[06:51] Keith: Ah, you know you know we're in the Christmas season here. What's that song where ah, it's it's like it's been like mildly canceled where no, no, not the varietyary one. No the one where it's like a couple standing by the door and he's like tried a baby. It's cold outside.
[06:58] Mike: What all I want from you is for Christmas is you or something last Christmas with ah George Michael
[07:08] Mike: Oh sure and it's like he. What's he doing. He's threatening to throw her out if they don't have sex or something that's kind of.
[07:10] Keith: And and he's like yeah I mean that's I think that's the that's the reputation that song has apparently if you look at it through like the 50 s or sixty s lens it's more like playful banter and they're sort of ideating excuses that. They might use to tell their friends and that seems like she did actually really want to stay there and it wasn't actually him being coercive. But the reason why I brought it up is I think met some men behave like that man ah sort of stereotypically or reputationally is being accused of acting which is.
[07:34] Mike: Ah.
[07:46] Keith: They sort of apply the full court press to try to get the woman ah into bed and.
[07:52] Mike: Yes, that's worse. Yes, if if the woman if yes, if if the woman feels like but the thing is that in I think in a lot of I mean it's sort of complicated but now I know.
[07:59] Keith: I Think there's more degrees here than you imagine. Obviously she's being raped. You know that she's you know going to be less likely to orgasm and then there's like you know this sort of like heavily coercive thing where like you know she feels like she has to and but then there's like but but then before those 2 things. There's this like. Sort of areas of gray that I that I'm arguing might matter.
[08:19] Mike: Like I like how much this matters to you certainly funny. Yeah, it's like look I'm sorry I just yeah I just think that I think that if you get women willing to talk candidly about this. They'll just be like yeah I mean like women are outdating men because they want to have a relationship. And they can't know that after only having spent like 3 hours with you half of or more of which have been drunk and like why why do you think they have to be drunk to have sex with have sex on say the second or third date which is very common right? It's alcohol is very helpful. There. Why why why? Why is that necessary.
[08:41] Keith: Yeah, but I don't.
[08:48] Keith: All right for sure. Yes.
[08:53] Mike: It isn't necessary for the guy. In fact, it's negative for the guy.
[08:55] Keith: Yeah, yeah, you're right I just I mean I often I mean my relationships relationships my my dating adventures leading to sex often go more than 1 or 2 or 3 dates.
[09:11] Mike: No I understand that and and and and as the time as the number this is my like I Just think that there's some straightforward like probably relatively linear correlation. You could do like a little Scott scatterplot between how many hours you've spent together and probability of her orgasm and I think it's like asymptotic to.
[09:21] Keith: Yeah.
[09:30] Keith: Yeah, okay.
[09:30] Mike: 90% or something there just some 80%. There's some percentage of women who aren't going to orgasm but like yeah it goes up to that. But when you've only spent 3 hours together you're really not in a good spot in the scatter plot in my opinion and so it's like I just don't know what you would do in those 3 out. It's a little bit like it's you know what? it's a little bit like it's a little bit like so when I was in Las Vegas last Week and they have ah ah I was there with my wife and she threatened for us to go to this place that she went long ago with some female friends which is like a male strip club. We did not go I probably should have um, yeah I think that's it's yeah, it's yes and it's in ah the ex-calliber casino.
[09:58] Keith: Oh the rumble in the jungle. No no, that's not what it is. It's called ah the Thunder from down under. That's what it's called excalibur.
[10:08] Mike: Yes, and um, like so no woman finds that arousing right? because she doesn't know the guys whereas if you flip it and you make it a guy going to the woman's one I mean this is just basic stuff but like and it's like a so supply and Demand curve in economics right? They cross at some point where like the price which is the amount of time you spent together.
[10:13] Keith: Threatened you.
[10:28] Mike: Is ah is the right amount but but actually for the guy his interest might decline with time and the woman's increase increases and the curves look have certain dimensions to them but like I mean ideally for the guy the curve would actually go up. He'd like her more when he spends time with her but i. I don't know for a lot of guys like the notion of fucking someone you know 5 minutes after you meet them is kind of hot so in some ways because that implies why why is that hot. It's because it implies like she's ravenously excited for you which is the thing guys. Want even though it doesn't exist unless you're like a celebrity anyway.
[10:46] Keith: Yeah.
[10:53] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, when a bachelorette party do bachelorette parties ever have like a stripper come to an apartment is is that a thing do male strippers go to bachelorette parties I think I've seen that in a movie. But. Wouldn't women be like a little bit afraid of like inviting ah a big strapping man into their space without knowing them and in in an overtly sexual context. Yeah.
[11:15] Mike: Well I mean it's you're going to have the data you're going to have data so you know like who the guy is and all this stuff like he's not that would be if if you're a man that would not be the right way to be a rapist like it's not yeah, it's a really stupid way to do it.
[11:27] Keith: Yeah I suppose not he'd get a negative Yelp review.
[11:33] Mike: So yes, yeah I mean there's some risk. But yeah, but but importantly, like for the most part this is viewed as like kind of a comedy routine and so I was sort of like going to the Thunder from down under. It's like for me for for my wife. It would just be funny and for other women and for me it would be like just.
[11:50] Keith: Um I think it's boring.
[11:50] Mike: Well maybe and maybe like it might like give me a little Pcsd or something and I'm like I don't I don't want a bunch of dudes I don't know what happens but I don't I'm worried about erect cocks and semen and stuff like that I'm not sure how far it goes and that's not sure.
[12:01] Keith: I don't I don't think it goes. It's It's a it's a a fairly fably friendly thing I mean there might be places off this strip where you could find that but no, it's not but it's just going to be guys in G strings and you know.
[12:12] Mike: Um I don't think the thunder from down under is family friendly. Okay yeah, but do they like if you're the dude that's there are they going to assume you're gay like how does that work.
[12:20] Keith: Going around and you know going up to some line but not going over it because I don't know I went to ah do you know what? Asia Sf is I don't know if I want to tell this story on the pod. But.
[12:29] Mike: Yeah, see let's sleep. Yeah.
[12:36] Mike: Ah, it's ah you think you might have told it before it's about it's it's transsexuals right? It's ah it's Trans women or what Trans women or women or whatever. Okay.
[12:40] Keith: Yeah, it's it's mostly postop trans women. Um, and yeah I went there years ago with my my cousin used to be a ah ah the head concierge at a. Expensive hotel in San Francisco so we'd get comped things all the time and so we got comped an evening at assf and it's a restaurant where all the service people are are trans women and I was there with my uncle and my grandmother and yeah one of the. Waitresses slash dancers hauled me up and like was dancing with me probably because I looked like the most you know, embarrassed to be there like I looked at you know I was a I was a good mark. Um, but yeah, you know she like smashed my face between her breasts and.
[13:20] Mike: Oh oh I Thought you're going to say something else the most receptive. Okay.
[13:31] Keith: I Think my grandmother as she's since died but I don't think she ever really completely figured out that these were Trans women I'm not sure.
[13:42] Mike: Good on you. Forget for using that pronoun for that person. Ah did you know by the way that ah there is a I just learned this yesterday that there is a um, an anatomical structure present in the breasts of women that men do not have. And the reason I you may say well that's obvious but you know if if men if you give men female hormones they grow breasts right? I'm not sure about that. Yeah I think I think men can lactate. Yeah, but there is a structure in there called Cooper's ligaments and cooper's ligaments are I didn't know this are ligaments that.
[14:01] Keith: Um, yeah, and they lactate right? like meant I think they can Yeah, it's weird.
[14:10] Keith: Okay, go.
[14:13] Mike: Basically suspend your breast. Not your you know musculature. But the actual breast like the the fat of the breast. They're only in women from your clavicle. So your collarbone more or less I'm I'm sure it's more complicated than that and and an anatomist can come in and correct me exactly. But.
[14:18] Keith: The fat.
[14:31] Mike: It's this structure and it's basically responsible for why women's breasts are sort of Teardrop shaped and not like they don't just point downward or like do what belly fat would do anyway I Thought that was interesting because this is an example of a structure that simply does not exist in men. So if you presumably if you give men female hormones while they will grow breast tissue. They don't have cooper's ligaments.
[14:36] Keith: Um, yeah.
[14:50] Mike: And so press not going to look so good and so then you know you wind up having implants I just didn't know about this whole domain area and and it's another one of these. Ah yeah I mean like there are real anatomical differences between men and women I Guess that's obvious though. So just another one.
[15:08] Keith: Right? Um I don't remember where we were yeah can I talk about can we do this ass eating thing first just before we get into your stuff because I I teased it in the intro all right. This person says I ate my first arse and it's all I can think about that must be from the united kingdom.
[15:10] Mike: Ah, we should move on to a couple of these other topics. Okay, yeah, do it.
[15:22] Mike: Yes.
[15:24] Keith: So we spiced things up a little yesterday and I ate my girl's ours for the first time she was wearing a sexy little black thong bent over ready for me to feast away I was throbbing just looking at her bentover and weighing in her panties. It felt a little weird at first. But once we got into it. It was great. It's something I've always wanted to do and it was great. She loved it I loved it.
[15:30] Mike: If.
[15:42] Keith: But it's all I could think about today and I really want to know how it feels I put a little plug in sometimes for solo fun and really enjoy the feeling is this a start of an addiction to bums now. Yeah I mean.
[15:47] Mike: I Don't know.
[15:56] Mike: Ah, his own bum though is what he means.
[16:00] Keith: I Draw like a fairly I'm not into ass eating I could imagine ah in like the throes of like complete Arousal ah being convinced to lick someone's asshole if that if they really wanted that like I could suppress my my standard Disgust and enough.
[16:13] Mike: Um, sure that's right.
[16:20] Keith: Ah, to do that I might even find it mildly compelling. But I doubt I think the taste would be that I don't want to try I'm not I haven't tried I'm not I'm but I can conceptually imagine it. But I've always drawn like a really thick line between that and my own ass play. But the reason why I brought this up was I wanted to ask you do you think there's some sort of connection between enjoying ass eating and being like ass penetration curious.
[16:44] Mike: Not really I think I'm not sure what's going on with this guy I mean I think it's just that she had fun and now he's like jealous and he's like well maybe and and and maybe it was kind of a trojan horse of like well let's do this this ass thing on her because he actually deep down wanted to do this other thing on him I'm not I'm not told I so.
[17:02] Keith: Um, okay, all right I didn't either I I was wondering if you would come up with some tentacles.
[17:04] Mike: I Don't think there's a connection I think like he's jumping something here the yeah in in terms of the discussed thing. There's there's yeah I mean I I think that I think that doing these things is fine until you encounter something that. Your body naturally has like revulsion too. So Poop would be an example I Also think I've always thought. Yeah oh if it's super clean if it was like super clean so that way like it was not. It felt like it was just this contiguous piece of skin and so like it wasn't I mean look taking it to its absolute.
[17:28] Keith: Well Mike how do you separate the poop from the ass eating like I just ah.
[17:42] Mike: And that relates to a topic. We have coming up here ah to the absolute furthest would be like a sex doll I mean like you're not going to care. Of course why would you be giving oral to a sex doll but like you're not going to care if you move the the vagina to the anus of the sex doll because it's all just vinyl or whatever or what I don't know what it's made of um so as long as it's like that. But the end the the example I wanted to give.
[17:53] Keith: Um, sure.
[18:02] Mike: I Um, always get grossed out by deep throat porn or like porn where yeah like deep throat porn where the woman starts sort of vomiting because I think to myself won't you like smell a bile Basically like I mean vomiting is really not great because of the smell like so I always think like.
[18:14] Keith: Yeah.
[18:20] Mike: How how do they and and I actually think it would I mean curiously be harder to prevent that than poop like you can give somebody kind of a really serious enema but I'm not sure you can like eliminate all the stomach acid so that when they're giving deep throat. Yeah so it's like look when I see those videos I Always think oh this must be revolting for the guy. They're just.
[18:28] Keith: Yeah Listerine or whatever.
[18:39] Mike: For both of them I mean of course for the woman but they're just doing it for the camera like who could ever want to smell that and so I Just think when you get like a pungent odor like that. There's no way you're discussed reflex you're going to switch back to disgusted mode I think.
[18:42] Keith: Yeah.
[18:53] Keith: Yeah I mean I've occasionally gone down on a woman that you know has has it. You know, maybe it's been a long day. Ah you know they're not as clean as it would.
[18:57] Mike: Oh.
[19:04] Mike: Um, is it are we talking a urine smell or something more fecal. No probably not. Yeah.
[19:10] Keith: Do we want to double click on this I mean we can. Yeah I mean look just sometimes throughout the course of the day things happen and it's not great. No I mean yeah like I get down there and it's like I don't I'm not sure I can.
[19:20] Mike: Yeah I think there's I think there is a set of programming in your brain that is deeper than the sex disgusted stuff and I think that really bad smells I mean anything you know if you're having sex and oh no, we're going to fall off a cliff and i' and but die I mean there are things where I think you but you would just immediately lose Arousal and I think like bile.
[19:32] Keith: Um, right right.
[19:40] Mike: Poop. Yeah, these are things where that's not going to work and so I think I Just think it has to be immaculately clean and I don't really get it. Yeah.
[19:44] Keith: So I agree Mike I I strongly agree with your your ah theory here I just think that ass eating almost always runs a pretty substantial risk of involving a little bit of poop.
[20:00] Mike: Um, I actually think it's I've thought that it's riskier. It's what I thought I'm sorry listeners I've thought it's riskier actually to ass eat a woman than a man and the reason why is because because men tend to have a little more hair in that area when.
[20:04] Keith: Now.
[20:13] Keith: Yeah.
[20:17] Mike: I Think men can be it makes intellectual sense to me that men might be more aware of like the cleanliness status after they use the restroom than a woman might be because a woman can sort of wipe it all off with the man might be like yeah I need to like use some soap here or something like the guy might wear as a woman. It's like if you take off all the hair. It's like.. It's going to seem like the toilet paper works pretty well but you see it doesn't actually.
[20:37] Keith: Do you have do you have any intuition on how many women have asshole hair and versus like what percentage of men have asshole hair versus what percentage of women.
[20:44] Mike: None My intuition is it's much higher for men but that's coming from like porn and stuff like that. So it's.
[20:52] Keith: Um, yeah, it's I mean you almost never see Asshole hair in porn and then when you do see it. It's It's a little bit jarring but surely yeah it it happens much more often in quote unquote real life.
[20:56] Mike: Right.
[21:05] Mike: I Think that my intuition here mostly come I guess actually my main intuition here comes from the fact that I'm not a very hairy person and yet I think I have a relatively normal male situation back there and my experience with women is that their situation is not is much significantly less hairy than mine.
[21:21] Keith: Same yeah, that's that's my experience as well.
[21:24] Mike: So I'm like huh. Yeah, so so I do think there's like a substantial delta which is the thing that gives me this concern about female hygiene there because I Oh there's another thing which is I remember being a child and having no hair there and it was much easier to wipe my ass. And I think back and I'm like yeah that probably wasn't as clean as I thought it was Anyway, we should probably stop. It.
[21:43] Keith: Yeah, but yeah, we should stop. But yeah, like a man over the course of the day even if he's like assiduously wiping himself Carefully is you know like there's just going to be particles. Okay, let's move on you had yeah but there's only so much you could do without.
[21:56] Mike: You're aware, you're ah you're more aware because of the hair. Yeah, okay, yeah, exactly exactly.
[22:02] Keith: Shower. Okay, let's let's thankfully move on here. Okay, you had some things you wanted to discuss today.
[22:05] Mike: Yeah, so there was a there was a posting online. It was it was a really nerdy posting but I I wanted to bring it up with you. It was about a video game this guy plays and he was talking about. You know what? it takes to get into the ninety fifth percentile some video game I don't want to talk about the video game but like. Get to the ninety fifth percentile of this game requires some amount of skill and his point was that even people at the ninety fifth percentile of this skill level because he's done some really nerdy analysis of this by watching videos even people at the ninety fifth percentile and you can tell that from a leaderboard make really characteristic mistakes. So his example from the video game is like. There's this 1 item you're supposed to stand on top of instead of next to and people at the ninety fifth percentile will still stand next to it and not on top of its basic mistakes and it made me so in his point was like look There's a huge difference between ninety fifth percentile and ninety nine or ninety nine point nine percentile and and this is certainly true for things that are like iq orientiented like the sat test or things like that like there. There really are yeah I mean unfortunately there's the fiftieth percentile but like even when you get to 95 like there's a lot more work. You can do and it's true with games I wanted to see if you have a take on this. We're getting relating to dating and kind of being effective in interacting with women because. Yeah I mean do you think that there are obvious mistakes that even guys that are pretty effective that are sort of almost in like the sort of chad level to use the ah taxonomy of an incel guys that are pretty successful. Do you think there's still like equivalents for them of.
[23:37] Mike: Standing next to the thing instead of on top of it that they do with women just obvious things that you see other guys that are pretty successful. Do and you're like what's wrong with you and you you know I'm I'm I guess I'm giving you the bed for the doubt that you're like a ninety ninth percent player here if if you don't think you are then maybe it's not an interesting topic now I think you are I think you are I think you've thought about it a lot more so and you've like.
[23:51] Keith: Ah.
[23:54] Keith: Yeah I have but I have.
[23:56] Mike: Made more of a practice of it and I just suspect you've heard stories or talked to people and seen things that are just dumb ass things but they're still effective guys. Yeah, ok.
[24:04] Keith: I Have a anecdote that might pertain to this I'm sort of seeing a girl who's like very very very attractive. We've never really, we've never hooked up. Um, we've kissed but hasn't gone beyond that and ah.
[24:10] Mike: Oh.
[24:16] Mike: So how many hours platonically have you spent together so like 10 hours yeah but oh oh yeah, so I want to say something Keith just to really quickly I actually think that helps that helps with the orgasm thing too.
[24:21] Keith: We've we've we've had 3 or 4 dates I think but it's been, but it's been over the course of months it's it's it's it's. Okay, and aside to myocide.
[24:36] Mike: if if I was going to if you were gonna ask me with the second variables. A variable one is how many hours you spent nonplu ah platonically together variable two would be how long between the first meeting and the sex and the orgasm purported orgasm.
[24:40] Keith: M.
[24:49] Mike: Just in terms of calendar time because I think that creates like the fantasy life in the woman's head. So this woman might you might be able to give her a real orgasm. Yeah yeah, and yeah, oh that's Pat get.
[24:56] Keith: Oh boy, something for her to potentially look forward to ah she texted me the other day and she said she went on a date and I think well I think she's annoyed that I'm not pursuing her so that might have been an attempt to make me.
[25:12] Mike: Okay, okay, well this is this is in the ninety nine to ninety fifth percentile player things I want to hear your yeah.
[25:13] Keith: Jealous or something I'm not sure. But um, yeah yeah I asked her about it and she said like well it was going well but then he ah we started talking about white privilege and she didn't like what what he had to say about that.
[25:29] Mike: Oh.
[25:33] Keith: And I think sort of canceled himself. Um, but ah, it's not important. Um, the reason why I bring that up is I think men have basically all levels of game.
[25:34] Mike: So she's non-white I take it or maybe it doesn't matter. Okay.
[25:49] Mike: Okay.
[25:51] Keith: Really struggle not to like mansplain thing like they really struggle not to do like generic sort of annoying male tropes so like mansplaining or talking over them or not asking any questions or sort of not reading the room properly like if you can just eliminate the obvious things like don't.
[25:57] Mike: Earth.
[26:09] Keith: Complain to the like the waiter at all like just be absolutely charming to the waiter even if they mess up your drink like don't like it doesn't matter on that night um don't ever let her pay like just take it graciously don't like ever be weird about like paying on the first few dates. Um.
[26:13] Mike: Who.
[26:27] Mike: This just sounds like an anti- georgege Costanza Playbook but go on you.
[26:29] Keith: Don't well don't try to like just don't do your like pro- palestine or pro-israel rant like just keep it to yourself like keep your elbows in and don't I just think that like men in particular just can't. Ah, yeah, they'll like fumble the ball at the at the one yard line they just can't.
[26:50] Mike: As like a 60% player here my question to you though is like or whatever percent I might be what so the the Pro-israel Pro- palestine whichever Side. You are what what about the I mean aren't you running a risk of her just being like God you're boring like you're just. You just so neutral like can't don't you have to have something that you're passionate about.
[27:09] Keith: Um, ah, yeah, I mean if if there's if there's one skill that I have and I don't know where this puts me percentile wise but it's that I can read the person and figure out what it is. They want to hear so. If we're talking about homelessness in San Francisco you don't know like what the person is they might be like super progressive and be 1 of those peoples that think we need to be ah, you know, handing out what's the the anti if somebody's oding on fentanyl the drug that you can like give them so that they don't die.
[27:44] Mike: Maxwell's Silver Hammer Oh no, you want to keep them alive. Sorry ah I can't remember I don't think about it much I think you're right I think it's narcan that was good.
[27:45] Keith: No. Na nar nars a narcent and Nar Nar Narcan whatever there's some drug that's been like yeah people are ah it's been legalized now and there's discussion about whether it should be in first aid kits and if you don't.
[28:01] Mike: Yeah.
[28:05] Mike: From Jesus.
[28:08] Keith: Have it in your first aid kit is there liability or if you do have it in your first aid kit and somebody gives it when you give this to people who are oding on Fentanyl they can like spring to attention and like actually be a little bit violent and so if you do have liability for not giving it. And what if somebody gets hurt when they do give it and there's all kinds of discussion around this but like so the the most progressive people will be like look like everyone should carry around Narcan in their purse in case, they encounter like a homeless person. That's that's od and then there's people that you know are like oh we should Incinenerrate. You know I don't like climbing over homeless people. We should just incinnerrate them and.
[28:22] Mike: All right.
[28:33] Mike: Really okay.
[28:40] Mike: I Don't think anyone says that but go on.
[28:41] Keith: Where people fall. Ah where people fall on that spectrum. Ah really you know and they might feel like you know, really powerfully about it. You know like some people are like oh I can't believe all the shoplifting in San Francisco and it's like okay well you can't believe it because you think that we're not tough enough on crime or.
[28:51] Mike: Sure.
[28:59] Keith: You can't believe it because you think we're too tough on crime like and so I think I'm pretty good at like reading a person and both sides in things until I can figure out what it is. They want to hear and then I can like wriggle.
[29:11] Mike: But do you then agree with them or like how because you obviously do have points of view and we don't have to get into them but you have points of view. So how do you? How do you it or maybe ah, let me try to not devil's advocate but like Keith advocate here is it is it that your.
[29:15] Keith: Do.
[29:25] Keith: Um.
[29:27] Mike: Goal is just to appear nuanced and complex. So like it's like your point in which your voice points of view probably are. They're not simplistic. Hopefully.
[29:28] Keith: I Think yeah I I enjoy trying to show that I understand an issue and can understand you know either side but but mostly hu toward whatever the person wants to hear.
[29:45] Mike: And then later after you've been on more dates you you tell them the truth or something or okay when what you do this on what now.
[29:47] Keith: Um, I do this on my yeah, well yeah, eventually yeah and then I was going say do this when I travel too. You know you go to a lot of places and people will be like oh man San Francisco what's it like there and then you know i. Try to lay out. You know, most people think that the San Francisco is a law as hellhole with you know, drug addicts and homeless people everywhere. Um, and I'll I'll try to sort of walk them toward a more nuanced view of what's going on here.
[30:14] Mike: Um, what is.
[30:19] Mike: What do you think the failure mode the most common failure mode a guy who who is at the ninety fifth percentile but fails this which this sounds plausible to me as a thing I actually think it's a plausible thing that a guy would be failing on at that level. What yeah, what would he? What would what would his experience be. So so he's he's not doing this He's like taking positions on things. He's not reading the room as well. He's maybe being snippy with the waiter maybe being like George Costanza like what's going to happen.
[30:44] Keith: Um, yeah.
[30:49] Keith: Um I don't know there's this bar next to my house that I like to go to and people watch and I'll go with my book and it's really good at like a Tuesday or Wednesday at 8 pm because everyone's on first dates and.
[30:55] Mike: Ah.
[31:01] Mike: Okay.
[31:04] Keith: I mean you watch these men and it's a nice bar so you know the the men here are probably objectively catches now whether they subjectively are I guess what we're discussing here but they'll they'll try to discuss crypto or they'll they'll name drop like some Vc they met with and.
[31:16] Mike: On earth.
[31:22] Keith: Like I understand that like those are impressive things to them and they're they're trying to be impressive. But I think men should just try to be interested in the woman and ask her questions and if she asks things back. You can you know say a little but like Modesty goes a long way. Um, and if you can seem like you have more to say but don't necessarily say it I think that can be intriguing to women and women in my experience generally like to talk.
[31:47] Mike: But what's the what do you? What's the failure mode that you see if the guy said I mean I think that I think that name dropping people is below a ninety four five percent tactic percentile tactic in my opinion. It's late now I think we're dropping to like the seventy fifth percentile area. But what would you see happen the woman just her.
[31:58] Keith: Um, sure sure. Yeah.
[32:05] Mike: Her face drops. She starts looking other around the room. She just doesn't stop. Maybe she's not talking is that what you oh gosh. That's yeah.
[32:10] Keith: Yeah, pulling her poly her phone out. Ah yeah, like I I think if you could somehow measure the amount of talking that the man did versus the amount of talking the woman did you you wanted it to be something like seventy thirty the woman that that's probably what you want to be aiming for.
[32:25] Mike: Um, yeah.
[32:27] Keith: And you know your 30 needs to be decent. Um, but mostly you know you should be asking her. Um and I doubt a lot of men are achieving that it's really hard for men not to try to dominate conversations.
[32:44] Mike: There should be an app for that. You got like a thing on your phone that like records your date and then like just just ah does the male versus female tonalities and and tells you how your scores or on your watch.
[32:45] Keith: Yeah.
[32:54] Keith: Would that work can um, does the Amazon transcription service does it can it tell tonality.
[33:02] Mike: For sure. Yeah I mean it can and it can. It can differentiate voices and until you don't have to use the Amazon when there's a number of them. But but ah you, um, ah, of course if you ask it to tell you the gender you might have some trouble because as I learned at the Amazon conference in Las Vegas there are literally thousands of genders. So you have to be careful about that. So if you were like would tell me which one's the woman like I'm not sure, but but the thing is you could say hey pick me out and it could tell you who you are versus someone else.
[33:24] Keith: Okay, well and you can identify yourself and then you know the only other person talking is is her or them So there's no I Really huh all right listeners. Yeah, you know go to y combinator with that one.
[33:34] Mike: So be actually a fantastic app like a first date. Score yeah I got a guy could just yeah, okay, all right? why've I got a couple other things here. Yes, um so so we told.
[33:44] Keith: Um, all right? Let's reel this back in. Yeah, let's go.
[33:51] Mike: I got another one but I we got to move on because we're going to run out of time here. We told ah somebody sent us 2 different things. We got some sex stuff here and we'll put it on in the show notes. So I put a couple of links into our spreadsheet here. Um.
[34:06] Keith: Mm.
[34:07] Mike: The first one there's 2 links here one one is for a site on hx doll and the other one was on fav Fa v fave doll dot com I'll put these in the show notes. Let's go to the hx doll one. Do you see the link. Oh actually, that's sorry that's just go to Hx doll.dotcom and
[34:13] Keith: Okay, all right. It's loading. Yeah.
[34:24] Keith: Um, oh okay, yeah I got it I got it.
[34:27] Mike: So yeah, remove the path stuff but you'll see you'll see. There's a link to male sex dolls. Okay, this is the one I want to talk about. Okay, let's skip the suit. Yeah click on that. Yeah, go ahead and click on that and and notice what you see here now. Let me I'll describe what we see here.
[34:34] Keith: Huh That's too bad I like I like these female ones, but okay, all right male sex dolls like I click shop now all right.
[34:45] Mike: So these are I mean everybody's probably familiar with a real doll which is basically a female sex doll that I assume is you know life size. Um, that has a prosthetic or whatever vagina that you can fuck These are the equivalent but it's a man and they have.
[34:59] Keith: Um, yeah.
[35:03] Mike: Some of them have flaccid penises some of them have erect penises and this is where I was getting hung up. Um and what what is the purpose in your mind of one of these sex dolls. That's a man with an erected penis like how would anyone ever use this.
[35:20] Keith: I'm looking at ah I'm looking at Dominic which is I think the fourth line down on the right all right I could see a woman ah putting laying him down on the bed and then she climbs on top of him and.
[35:20] Mike: Some of them have pretty large penises too. That's a great example. Yes yes I mean.
[35:36] Keith: Use now does the penis can you change the angle of it.
[35:38] Mike: It does appear put down. Let's just assume you can and it also is you can get different sizes. You can get 15 or twenty five centimeters which twenty five centimeters is around ten inches so that's a okay anyway. So yes, you can let's say you can change the angle I do you really think.
[35:55] Keith: Um, yeah I guess.
[35:58] Mike: There have women who have ever done that who like ride a male doll like this.
[36:03] Keith: I it seems it seems ah dubious I don't know I don't think so also is this chest hair real. What is Jesus Nominic is
[36:09] Mike: Okay, yeah, he's got a little, they've somehow actually like stuck individual hairs into his chest to make it so it looks like yeah a $2000 sex doll I mean is is but an all seriousness. Do you think that the target audience of this is gay men.
[36:19] Keith: $2000
[36:25] Keith: Oh how it? Yeah maybe.
[36:29] Mike: Because I don't yeah and and there's and I think the only way Ah, anybody could use. This would be to sit on top of it In other words, you're not going to be able to take the male sex doll and have it on top of you fucking you right? I mean like maybe someday you'll have like.
[36:37] Keith: He yeah you would need like some sort of machine to move it for you.
[36:46] Mike: Something with chat gbt in its brain and C three Po running its motors and then it can actually fuck you even that I don't think a woman would be interested in a man might be um, okay so this is you're as perplexed by this as I am I mean well these people reached out to us for a link and they linked back to our show. We'll give them a link but I I.
[36:49] Keith: Ah.
[36:55] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[37:06] Mike: I don't I don't understand the point of their products exactly Um, yeah.
[37:08] Keith: I Mean they probably know like their sales department knows you know they can see the mailing address that the names on the mailing addresses of their customers.
[37:18] Mike: Yeah I just can't believe that yeah I mean I think if I were selling this product for men now. Obviously the female sex dolls is to maybe different. But for the men ones I've got to think you're talking about joke gifts. Although $2000 a lot of money for a joke.
[37:34] Keith: Yeah I was going to say I was yeah, my first thought when I said you could look at the addresses is yeah well that might be obfuscated by people doing this to troll someone but would somebody spent $2000 to troll someone? Um, also.
[37:44] Mike: Yeah I mean you'd have to be pretty pretty well off to do that.
[37:50] Keith: For $13000 you can get a fully customized doll so presumably you can make it look like your ex-boyfriend.
[37:57] Mike: You could. You could maybe get a Trans doll that has is a hermaphrodite with both a penis and and it could fuck itself or something I mean you could like maybe you could or create some kind of Alien Oh here's one with like an actual horsehead. So maybe that's you know you're actually going off. Yeah.
[38:11] Keith: Ah I am it scrolled that far down.
[38:17] Mike: Didn't make it to the Horse head Hu people can check this out. Okay, yeah, okay so let's let's move on to this other thing So there there's Hx and there's another one but I'll include them in the show notes. Okay, so we also got sent Well I got it a cock ring.
[38:20] Keith: Ah, well, okay, all right? So yeah, all right? So that's a hxtall.com okay
[38:36] Mike: And I'm not we they wanted to talk to us. But then they just stop actually I stopped replying to them and they didn't whatever but they did send me this like $100 device and I can show it to you. It's a cockering that is supposed to measure the firmness of your erection while masturbating or um, having sex and.
[38:46] Keith: Um.
[38:54] Keith: It it measures. Okay.
[38:56] Mike: It's a ring. Yeah yeah, it's a ring bluetooth connects to your phone and it's got a ring that goes around your nuts and then sort of so one it's ah it's a ring that's maybe it's it's it's rubbery and it's maybe um, two inches across
[39:04] Keith: Aha.
[39:14] Mike: And then it has a component that's got kind of a hook on it that you can attach around your nuts and so that way one side of the ring is below your nuts and one side of it's above your nuts but they're both kind of hugging the shaft of your cock if that makes sense like like there's it's it's and so the the net result of it is it. It creates a tighter a relatively tight interface around there and then there's this part that's.
[39:25] Keith: Um, yeah.
[39:33] Mike: Pushed against the top part of the the shaft basically that is supposed to measure your erection and you also can wear it while sleeping so I tried this thing while sleeping and it woke me up at four zero a m because when I I think when I was sleeping I got an erection according to the app and it.
[39:35] Keith: Shaft.
[39:49] Keith: Aha aha.
[39:50] Mike: My erection. Maybe it's because my penis is so large probably ah it became painful so I had to take it off I actually woke up in pain and I was sort of like fuck like is this thing going to destroy my penis. So then I used it masturbating and it failed to it gave me a very high score for my erection while masturbating and I would say this ring thing.
[39:57] Keith: Yeah, wrote.
[40:09] Mike: Makes your erection firmer. It does um all right like this like a rubbery one or a solid one.
[40:12] Keith: Oh yeah, I've worn a cock ring before no ah there always they all They always have a little bit of give Actually that's not true. The ones I've used always have had a little bit of give.
[40:24] Mike: What what happened to the one you had did you throw it away or like do you still have it. Okay is it is it does it bluetooth connect to your phone and measure your erection firmness. Okay, good. So this one's better. Yeah, this yeah this one's much more expensive and then ah.
[40:29] Keith: Um, I still have it. No, it does not know the what I had was like a dollar. Ah.
[40:42] Mike: I'm not going to say the name of it because they didn't I don't know like oh and I'm not 100% I don't know we didn't like we stopped talking to them. But.
[40:45] Keith: Wait like how does it? How does it measure rigidity.
[40:53] Mike: Well I think there's just a sensor in it that measures that is pushed against your shaft while it's got that rubber band thing going on. It's like this little bump here and I think that it just sort of measures pressure. Ah you think it's inaccurate.
[40:58] Keith: Aha aha. I don't I can't imagine there being enough of a meaningful Maybe there is I mean you'll have to use it a bunch of times and like 1 time you know one time try like four four shots of whiskey before you do it so that you're a little bit softer than.
[41:13] Mike: Um I don't think that's going to happen. Oh it can definitely tell the the erection and then the erection going away I know that because when I used it to masturbate.
[41:21] Keith: Do you get a real time. Score.
[41:25] Mike: No, but yeah, it's a little crappy the way it works it uploads it to the app afterward. But it definitely had the timing of the orgasm correct and then like very it was like it had a nice like increase it made sense. Of course they could have hacked it to just appear to make sense. But I think it did make sense like it had an increase in hardness and then a very quick decrease at a key moment. Um.
[41:29] Keith: How does it.
[41:38] Keith: Yeah, ah, are you comfortable sharing that graph with me and we don't have to share it with the listeners but I just be curious and seeing the to see the graph right.
[41:44] Mike: I Also used it during p Yeah good. Yeah I'll pull it up here while we're talking So I also used it in Pi V during Api V situation but the problem is that have you used a cock ring drink. Yeah W used one of these things during P I v Okay so the problem that I was reported.
[41:55] Keith: Your poor wife I have yeah.
[42:04] Mike: Not by me was that the it basically prevents you from fully penetrating. Um, oh this is because it has this thicker thing that sits against your shaft. Yeah so here's my erectile performance.
[42:08] Keith: Right? Yeah, that's not an issue with a with a ring I mean right? but.
[42:23] Mike: Ah, so you see it has I went up to a 10 there which I'm pretty proud of and then you see the quick decline. Yeah, so um, yeah, it also had I mean had various issues like it didn't always upload I mean there's just various technical issues like you think it's so simple.
[42:29] Keith: Yeah, ah, ah, cool.
[42:42] Mike: You'd think they would get it right? Anyway, just wanted to. Yeah.
[42:43] Keith: Um I want to try I want to try but ah yeah I have 2 concerns one I don't really like going second I don't I mean I guess we clean it. Clean it with a clean it with alcohol. Yeah I don't I don't think I want to use yours.
[42:50] Mike: Well I can tell you then I mean you can buy 1 of your own you you don't want this one I assume that's gross I don't if you want it, you can have it I don't actually want it it. It wasn't that impressive. But if I were if I were.
[43:01] Keith: Yeah I hear you and then my second concern go ahead. Why what did you do to it? Yeah, you just there's no way to clean it enough. Yeah I mean my hands been wrapped around my nuts and I've shaken your hands. So.
[43:07] Mike: Yeah, if I were you I would refuse to use it but go ahead. Yeah, just I don't want something that's been wrapped around. So yeah, it's been wrapped around someone else's nuts like while they're That's a good point should should you care.
[43:21] Keith: You know.
[43:25] Mike: But look you can decide for yourself I don't get. It's up to you I don't know if I like the idea of you having either fit okay going.
[43:25] Keith: Yeah I'll put some more thought to this. But yeah, then the other thing is the other thing is what if I only get like you know a 9 erection and and you got a 10 and like of course you're going to demand to see by graph and like I'll I'll either have to forge one if I only get a 9
[43:38] Mike: Earth.
[43:44] Keith: But you know you know? Yeah, it's gonna be tricky. So.
[43:47] Mike: It definitely increases I can understand why like an an unhealthy or less healthy or less exercise prone or older guy would use 1 of these things because it definitely increases kind of the rigidity of the erection. Ah yeah.
[43:58] Keith: Um, yeah, my understanding is the the elastic nes or the ring stops blood from leaving your penis as quickly and so it can make your orgasms more intense which is why I was trying it or it can make your cocks stay Harder If you're struggling with that and. I Don't understand why it doesn't make it harder for blood to flow in. But I guess.
[44:23] Mike: I view the blood flows in deeper or something I by the way I sent you this link this week ah because I've had this I think poison oak rash I finally broke down and did an online appointment with a doctor and um, got a prenozone.
[44:23] Keith: Yeah.
[44:38] Mike: Which just you take like President's preisone for yeah for a couple days and it's just like it's an unfortunately ah I checked with a family member who's a doctor and it's It's not the right kind of Steroid to build muscle. It actually destroys muscle so you want to not take too much. Um, but ah ah I was.
[44:38] Keith: That's a steroid. Yeah.
[44:48] Keith: Ah, too bad too bad. Yeah.
[44:55] Mike: While before going to a doctor I was using benadrel and I sent you this link apparently I didn't know this first of all benadrl makes you sleepy you you know people famously give it to their kids to get them to sleep on planes and stuff like that if you take um, too much benadryl you hallucinate.
[45:07] Keith: Ah.
[45:12] Mike: Apparently But there's an amount of Benadryl that people take that apparently dramatically increases their orgasm intensity. Did you know about this.
[45:19] Keith: Um, yeah I skimmed this thing you sent me. Ah, but I mean what does dramatically increase mean.
[45:27] Mike: I I think it depends on the person. But I mean like that's ah you know something to be aware of.
[45:31] Keith: And then when I take Ben a drill My yeah, the main thing is I get very tired so you probably want to wait long enough for it to you know, get fully in your bloodstream and then try to masturbate I Guess to test this.
[45:37] Mike: Now.
[45:46] Mike: Ah, yeah, apparently yeah, apparently this is a thing guys do like I think you have like if a typical pill is twenty Five Milligrams I think you need to take like 5 of them or 8 of them. It's more than you kind of think you ought to take.
[45:55] Keith: Oh god okay hold on hold that listeners. We are not doctors. Do not take 5 benadrl.
[46:01] Mike: Well don't do it on our advice like go to a doctor and see say doctor should I take 5 benadryl and then jerk off and if they say yes well it's doctor's advice I advise you to have that conversation with your doctor.
[46:09] Keith: Ah, yeah, Green light right? right? right? right? um.
[46:16] Mike: Ah, anyway, that's what these articles and it's it's posted in multiple places online that people like this is apparently like a fairly well-known orgasm and enhancer. It could also be like the cause of some level of Auto Eotic death. So I have no idea like um, yeah.
[46:22] Keith: Huh.
[46:28] Keith: Yeah I'm a little concerned about taking 5 ben a drill that that would be my main I think it is five because because it says in this this link you sent me that is 100 to two hundred Milligrams and I think a pill is 20 Okay.
[46:35] Mike: I'm not sure if it was 5 I know if you take like 10 or 15 You're going to hallucinate. Okay.
[46:45] Mike: 25 yeah so it's so it's 4 to 8 and then yeah so I took I was yeah I was itching so much that I took 3 pills which you're not. It's 2 is sort of the maximum and then I read about this the next day and I'm like damn it I should have I mean I couldn't sleep anyway, I should have.
[46:48] Keith: So 4 to 8
[46:57] Keith: Ah, yeah, right, right.
[47:03] Mike: Taken advantage of having taken those three just to see if there was any boost. So maybe the next time you feel like you need Benna drill. You can just like try it with a lower dose and just see if you get anything.
[47:12] Keith: Yeah, you might need a certain saturation before you get the ah therapeutic effect.
[47:16] Mike: Yeah, just it. It is a little hard to imagine like it does last longer is it like you pass out I mean what happens they just give like they just give personal experiences some some people say it didn't do anything for them. Some people say it's like amazing.
[47:21] Keith: Yeah, do people speculate in this Reddit thread at all. Yeah yeah, okay.
[47:35] Mike: Some people say they've just heard about it. Um, so we have we also have this ah this doc of this person this data from an in-person dating service where they went through data from three thousand first dates do you want to go through this now.
[47:45] Keith: Um, yeah.
[47:51] Keith: Yeah, there's a lot of data here and it it might actually be good that we're getting into this toward the end of the show we have about 12 minutes left and yeah, splitting it over 2 shows might be good. So yeah, it's from some dating service called mixmosa that was in the Texas area and.
[47:53] Mike: Little bit of it. Yeah sure. Yeah.
[48:11] Keith: 2021 and 2022 and he kept pretty careful records of what was going on so you know various interesting things. Um women rate 72% of men as below average in physical attractiveness. That's.
[48:12] Mike: Um, yeah.
[48:24] Mike: And men rate women basically on a normal curve where it's like half and half you know it's like they're what you would sort of think a a normal curve. Yeah yeah.
[48:30] Keith: Right? Yeah 50% of women are below average and physical attractiveness right? Ah, 29% of men and women haven't had sex in the past year that is pretty surprising to me too. I think I have gone a year without sex in my adult life I'm sure I've gone six months I'm not sure if I've gone a year
[48:54] Mike: Was it but in your case it was always. It's I think it would be fair to say that in your case, it's like the case of a woman who doesn't does it right? In other words, you and it's not that you'd have to go hire a prostitute. It's like you could. There's like ah, an organized process. You could go through that takes a month
[49:11] Keith: Right.
[49:12] Mike: Say and at the end of that month you will have had sex something like that whereas for a I would actually venture that for like more than half of guys who are in that state the six month to a year dry spell. It's not like that. It's like they aside from paying for it. There's nothing they can do. It's sort of like how every guy is when they're like 14 Basically.
[49:21] Keith: Right? I can't yeah right right? Yeah I mean it was pretty intolerable when I was 14 I was like I just need a vagina any vagina and it would make me so happy and it would it would like.
[49:31] Mike: Yeah.
[49:36] Mike: A.
[49:40] Keith: Yeah, would get frustrated that that wasn't available.
[49:41] Mike: I wanted there to be a milf that's what I was I like would I would I would walk home from school sometimes and I had to walk like a mile and a half by all these houses and I I actually had a fantasy that like there would just be some woman I didn't really care how old well I mean reasonable aged experienced woman who would just be like hey.
[49:48] Keith: Ah.
[49:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a very popular porn trope now. Um all right? What else does he say he says um.
[49:59] Mike: Let's go left sex Anyway, Yes yes, um.
[50:09] Keith: Yeah, so they did I guess the premise of this site was they would do 8 minute long speed dates and men would like 51% of the women they spoke to and women would like 31% of the men. So again, we're seeing. Yeah well yeah, again, we're seeing women are much more selective. They are.
[50:13] Mike: Um, yeah.
[50:20] Mike: And that yeah and the yeah, go ahead.
[50:28] Keith: Yeah, interested in far fewer men are than men are the women.
[50:33] Mike: Right? They have he shows a graph I will post this link in the show notes. But like there's a graph here also which shows the probability like if you're a guy and you're on one of these 8 minute speed dates. What? ah you know what is the is basically it's answering the question is there a guy that every woman likes. Is there a woman that every guy likes yeah, there is and it's you can imagine who it's going to be It's going to be the very attractive woman but there essentially is no guy that every one every woman likes which I think is really interesting right? Like so that means that's I guess that's right, but it's a little bit rough right? like the the notion that there is.
[50:52] Keith: Yeah.
[51:00] Keith: Yeah.
[51:10] Mike: But it it suggests actually that women have a random process to some extent to me because it's like.
[51:12] Keith: Yeah, like Ryan Gosling or or ronaldo can walk into the room and according to this like 60% of women would be like and.
[51:22] Mike: Right? And there is no even if you're like yeah, So even if you're attractive and then you say you're just a really good conversationalist. There is always something you will say it's like some sort of like physics concept that will turn off some percentage at least 20 say 30% of the women. No matter what you do,? You're going to look like their brother. You're going to remind them of their acts. There's some random factor and this strongly supports um a notion that I've heard many times that like that. Yeah I mean there's ah it's yeah, quantity becomes important in dating. Basically you you. Yeah, as guys have to learn to accept react rejection because like it's just baked in to the to the situation.
[52:05] Keith: Yeah I was listening to a podcast yesterday and was saying that. Yeah a man having tolerance to accept Rejection is good both in investing and in dating because yeah, the more chances you take the more. The yeah, the higher probability you have of landing something.
[52:25] Mike: Um, yeah I I remember I've also heard the theory for dating I was talking about this with a friend the other day that it's not even that like so okay, that potentially it's not even it's random enough that it's just how the woman's feeling that that day. So ah, you go? Let's say you go to a bar or whatever series of whatever series of locations and you talk to you make yourself talk to 10 women that are sort of there alone or 20 or 50 the the the sure. But if you did that experiment.
[52:50] Keith: Yeah, good luck finding 10 single one in. But yeah.
[53:00] Mike: If you could in principle do with the same women across like three months and they didn't remember you was like that that movie fifty first dates or whatever different women would like you because it's actually a question of their relationship status. What happened that morning where they are in their hormonal cycle like there's all these things that like impacted and so.
[53:04] Keith: Yeah now I see where you're going here.
[53:18] Mike: The point being that as a guy you could make the argument to really not take this stuff personally because it's possible. It's not even what you said it's possible. So so a piece of data I don't think is here but would be interesting is like were there women that just said no to everyone. You know what? I mean.
[53:24] Keith: Right.
[53:33] Mike: Like so is there were there women that come to the speed dating thing and they're like yeah I'm just not feeling it today like my yeah right.
[53:33] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that data is not here. Um, that would be interesting. Yeah, if there was like some 10% of women that just basically were were in I don't know what to call it a bad mood that day or.
[53:46] Mike: Right.
[53:49] Keith: And they just yeah yeah I don't know they might self select out like those women might not have gone to these events then or may not have participated in these events like do you think women can tell when they're feeling that way.
[53:52] Mike: Right.
[54:02] Mike: Um, right? I think to some extent to some extent. But I mean I know from personal experience to like it's I think that there's a bit of a skill to realizing that you have a an emotional state that is a consequence of some like. Of course it's all internal to your body but something that isn't a thing you thought about that's hormonal or something that that that doesn't seem contextual to you to your thought process. Um, so this data does say that I mean yes so I wanted to also say as a meta point that this stuff supports. There's a Tiktok account in my sad.
[54:27] Keith: Yeah.
[54:40] Mike: Usage of Tiktok that I I watch sometimes that is called ho math and you said that's related to boy math and girl math which are right and this guy spells HoHOE not h o I always would spelled h o but so it's.
[54:41] Keith: Um.
[54:46] Keith: I I presume this is a offshoot follow on to that meme those memes.
[54:58] Keith: M.
[54:58] Mike: H O E underscore math and he yeah he's always making these points that basically women have because women have such a selectivity bias piece of a men and because of the as opposed to this first state 8 minuteut conversation thing now we're using apps and so forth it. Makes it so that the algorithms that women use or whatever the the process they use because of their selectivity winds up making them all select the same guys and so he's making sort of the incel critique but you can sort of see that so people can look and like compare the data that's in this article. With arguments. This guy makes on Tiktok if they if they really want to bone up on this. But for example with attractiveness just like um just like the.
[55:48] Mike: Men basically rate women on a normal curve but women rate men on some sort of skewed curve where men are all pretty unattractive or they're much less likely to be attractive. You have the same thing where like the most attractive women are more likely to get likes from guys and it's true for the men too. It's just sort of skewed so it's like oh the most attractive don't get it. You know. Get fewer likes like the whole curve is sort of skewed down and of course one of the things he doesn't do is he just takes here. He takes the quartiles he doesn't consider the top 5 % most attractive and I strongly suspect. Well I I mean I strongly yeah in other words I think that I so so for example, he's showing that.
[56:12] Keith: Right? It there may be even more more clustering than what we're seeing here.
[56:25] Mike: Most attractive quarter of guy women are liked by 70% of the men which makes sense I'm actually surprised that's not higher. Um the most attractive quarter of women of men are liked by 40% of the women but I suspect the most attractive 5% of the men like that. There's some sort of skew at the end there.
[56:41] Keith: yeah yeah I mean this is basically a disaster right? like I know on tinder and bumble and hinge. There are 3 times as many men as women. So there's way more men seeking and then women are only choosing the most attractive.
[56:43] Mike: Because there's the the women are all basically attracting to the same guy. Yeah.
[56:53] Mike: Um, yeah.
[57:00] Keith: Amongst those men and they have you know at least 3 times as much interest and because they're doing this you know, weird ah evaluation criteria that yeah, it's effectively 10 times as much selection and so yeah, it's really not great out there for.
[57:15] Mike: I was actually thinking about this as regards, Cooper's ligaments and I was wondering. Well how did shit like that even evolve it must be because it actually made the babies more likely to survive because men would impregnate a woman whether or not she had cooper's ligaments making her breasts less stroopy. Right? Like while men have a preference for less droopy breasts I don't think it's going to make any day like they're they're all going to get impregnated still right? Maybe could yeah, it's true.
[57:42] Keith: It's tricky these things evolve in in tandem right? like the Cooper's ligaments evolve and then the man's preferences evolve.
[57:50] Mike: Yeah, okay, but they yeah I hear you it's sort of surprise on some level it surprises me but you can see there's some sort of first principles thing here of like where did female attractive attractiveness even come from like if all women and I think the answer has to be something like well the more attractive women. The guy is they all get impregnated but the more attractive ones the guys would care for the babies or something like that if that makes sense like yeah like an unattractive woman prehistorically still is going to be pregnant all the time right? so.
[58:14] Keith: Yeah I wonder. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is the evolutionary benefit of attractiveness.
[58:30] Mike: I Think it has to be yeah, like resources for yeah for her for the baby for sort of dealing with her. Um.
[58:36] Keith: Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe it just happens to be that the way our body perceives fertility now because people would still have sex with. With on like things they perceive as less fertile. Yeah I don't know I'm not sure I have yeah.
[58:54] Mike: Yeah, and female attractment I mean like for example, have you visited Iceland Keith like you have yeah of course you have so in Iceland they have these exhibits. It's it's kind of funny I think I saw it at the main museum in Reykjavik and maybe 1 other place where they kind of proudly tell you that like.
[59:06] Keith: Click.
[59:11] Mike: They're women are women are super attractive because the vikings would go to Ireland and steal all the most attractive women and they basically like they're like yeah look this is just why we're so great looking. Um or they sorry the right way to say does icelandic women look like what vikings liked in like the 13 hundreds.
[59:23] Keith: Huh.
[59:30] Keith: Ah, right? which.
[59:31] Mike: Um, in Ireland um, but the point is that like yeah so that's another I mean there. There are also impacts like that that impact attractiveness that like yeah prized females might have been sort of gathered or you know like if you're if you're if you're invading a town. You kill all the men you kill all the boys and then you.
[59:40] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[59:48] Mike: Do something different with the women depending on their track mean so there can be other things that create selective pressure as the point.
[59:53] Keith: I was a good word choice. There are you aware of the app in Iceland that tells you if you're cousins with somebody. There was a lot of accidental inbreeding. Apparently um, although I've recently read that second and third cousins might have more. Ah.
[01:00:01] Mike: Um, yes, yeah, it's a small population.
[01:00:11] Keith: I'm just saying what I've read I'm not I'm not advocating for those second and third cousins second and third cousin babies might have more positive traits than than negative. Yeah.
[01:00:18] Mike: From the inbreeding. Yeah I mean you wonder what the cause of that would be I mean what do you mean by positive traits.
[01:00:27] Keith: I don't know like higher incidents one of the issues with ah like sibling children and first cousin children is you get various birth defects. Yeah and recessive traits. Um, but.
[01:00:36] Mike: The recessive trades. Yeah.
[01:00:43] Keith: Ah, apparently with second and third cousins you get a much higher like genius rate and some other thing anyway I'm just speculating on this thing.
[01:00:48] Mike: Yeah I mean the question the question I would have about that would be is that just because you're taking a family where everybody's really smart and then you're basically inbreeding them and you're gonna get you're gonna get like you're increasing the standard deviation or something of of the result if you took second cousins of people that were really dumb.
[01:00:54] Keith: Yeah, it could be me yeah like how do you even do the study right? like you would need people who had.
[01:01:07] Mike: I Don't think they get a lot of geniuses out of that. But maybe.
[01:01:12] Keith: Suddenly? Ah yeah, Oppenheimer appears all right with that'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary. Ah you can send us feedback or questions to YMMvPod at gmail.com that's why MMvPod at gmail.com we pay $10 for any feedback. Even if it's bad.
[01:01:14] Mike: Yeah, exactly.
[01:01:28] Keith: Especially like bad feedback since it's more actionable. Ah, just give it your paypal or or Venmo or whatever and if you ask a question, let us know if we can use it on the show. We appreciate your you taking the time to listen to our little show here and we look forward to having you back next week on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 146: 99th Percentile Dating, 2900 First Dates, Male Sex Dolls, The (Female) Orgasm Whisperer

Episode Transcript