Your Mileage May Vary: Optimizing Female Orgasms, Outercourse Transitions, Public Sex Anxiety, Prostitute Permission, Facial Aftercare

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith. We have a fun list of sexy topics to discuss today including exhibitionism gone overboard using prostitution to relieve unbearable horniness. The.
[00:15] Mike: Um, yes.
[00:19] Keith: Requisite after care after coming on someone's face and more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike um Mike I wanted to talk to you about women who aren't into receiving oral. Um, ah yeah, what.
[00:23] Mike: Ah.
[00:33] Mike: Um, yeah, like Allie.
[00:38] Keith: Is going on there are they insecure about their body. Ah, the reason why it's It's confusing for me is I would expect that for most women receiving oral is more satisfying than receiving PiV now for men I think PIV is Generally more satisfying than receiving orals and so it's particularly confusing to me that women and men love blowjobs right? And so it's particularly confusing to me that there seems to be a large cohort of women who just aren't interested in having their partner go down on them.
[01:12] Mike: Yeah I mean I so I like let's just check this sanity. Check this with you. We don't have like a thousand data points here. We have us a fairly large number in my experience in life if I took the top 10 strongest female orgasms I've seen in person. I think all 10 of them were performed were with oral sex performed on the woman with finger or fingers up her vagina doing various things every single 1 right? Okay, so so that makes me think that I mean I yeah I would make the argument that the women who don't like it are making a mistake in the same way that.
[01:28] Keith: Um, listen.
[01:33] Keith: Same same? yes.
[01:46] Mike: If a guy said hey I don't like you know there's certain activities that get a guy a really strong orgasm I'd say hey yeah I Just think you're making him an objective mistake here.
[01:53] Keith: Right? You've seen this on Reddit a lot I'm sure where women say well I don't mind letting him go down on me. It doesn't do much for me, but he seems to like it. so I so I let him what percentage of those women. Do you think.
[02:02] Mike: Yeah.
[02:09] Keith: Ah, can reliably make themselves orgasm.
[02:12] Mike: I mean I would probably I don't know I would probably just go with like the population average of like 70 to eighty percent I don't know I don't yeah, doesn't bias it for me. Okay.
[02:20] Keith: Um, I bet it's I bet it's lower I bet it's lower I bet like the sort of insecurity or lack of familiarity or confusion about what feels good I bet that sort of relates to um.
[02:34] Mike: Sure.
[02:36] Keith: Not being super experienced ah giving themselves orgasms.
[02:40] Mike: Yeah I Do think that um because the female orgasm I don't think is something that's genetically particularly strongly selected for like it's actually a little so it would not surprise me put it this way if I found out that there was like a subgrouping of humans somewhere. Where none of the women women basically could have orgasms that wouldn't shock me like oh in this country, You're this ethnic and the reason why is because it just doesn't it doesn't actually matter for Procreation. You can say hey it it. It feels nice. It Pyrapara bonds people. But it doesn't actually matter you can have a baby you can remove someone a woman's ability to orgasm and she can still have a baby and so it's whereas for a guy. It's.
[03:11] Keith: Ah.
[03:15] Mike: You know, unless you have medical intervention without the ability of Orgasm. You're not going to have a baby ah pretty much pretty typically so um so I do think there are women so I'm not aware of any groupings of women who can't you know as as a whole have orgasms I know there are women who don't um, but there are women that require like a lot of pressure. Um, there are women who seem to require like a really like a vibrator like those hitachi like really powerful vibrators. Um, there are the women who masturbate by sort of rubbing against pillows or those kinds of things and I think that's a little bit different from again. It's kind of pressure oriented. Um, there might also be women who ah.
[03:39] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[03:53] Mike: It's the opposite where they're so sensitive that like it's kind of difficult for somebody to touch them lightly enough for it to work. But I think I think that if you take the Bell curve at the middle of the Bell curve is a woman who should enjoy oral This is different from men where it's like this is an important difference men I would say it's close to all men have the same.
[03:55] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, that.
[04:02] Keith: Yeah.
[04:12] Mike: Triggers for erection orgasm and so forth and that makes sense again because men male male ejaculation is important for propagating his genetic code. So if there was a man who was vastly different. It's sort of unlikely that he would have children grandchildren and so forth. So there's some evolutionary thing there.
[04:26] Keith: Right? Yeah I just I was reading a lot of the sex I've read it this week and it's just it was striking how many topics I came across were the woman oral was being discussed in some manner and.
[04:34] Mike: Are.
[04:45] Keith: Women were declaring that they're not interested in oral and it just seems strange that there's this corehort of women who are comfortable talking on the sex subreddit but don't enjoy receiving oral I don't know what's going on there.
[05:03] Mike: I think that I mean I think there it could I think it So I think it could be physical I think it could also be psychological body image issues of any kind, um and and that can feed into somebody not having enough experience.
[05:11] Keith: Um, yeah.
[05:16] Mike: With partner. They could also just be bad experiences with partners like like inexpert partners people doing things that hurt somebody says oh I'm going. Ah I'm going to bite your clit or whatever. Yeah, and so then they get sensitive. Yeah I do think that I mean I think that a woman who doesn't make an honest effort with her male partner to like get him.
[05:17] Keith: Yeah, or the right or the partner complaining about the smell or something and then that sort of stays in their head forever. Yeah.
[05:36] Mike: To try to do this thing where he you know something like the Kevin technique he stimulates her clit and then one 2 maybe 3 probably 1 or 2 fingers in a vagina sort of rubbing a cheese spot like that I think some large like 80% or 70% of women would get their strongest orgasm from that like most would so so if.
[05:41] Keith: Um, this is.
[05:54] Mike: So if you're a random woman out there and you haven't kind of made a good effort on that you're probably leaving something on the table. Yeah, there's a related. There's a related question I have I follow this? um it it relates to the thing you said about prostitution.
[05:59] Keith: Yeah, okay I agree. Ah.
[06:09] Mike: There's this ah escort in Australia that I follow on Tiktok or I don't really follow her I don't really follow anyone but I guess I've watched enough of her stuff that I get it. Um her cat recently died. Um and she told as she told the story I am too she said that um she took the cat to the vet thought it was okay then she was going on a tour which I think is some sort of prostitution tour.
[06:15] Keith: Right? I'm sorry to hear that.
[06:26] Keith: Oh.
[06:29] Mike: And throughout Australia to make some cash and her parents had the cat. The guy had been checked then it'd started bleeding out its mouth and then and this is when she knew it was really bad. It started bleeding out its anus and you know when when that when that happens is probably probably a gonener.
[06:37] Keith: That's a bad sign. Also a bad sign.
[06:45] Mike: In any event she was saying she got a question recently about guys who want to do DTY dining at the y you're familiar with this gross? Yeah ish expression I don't like either of them in terms of expression. But.
[06:51] Keith: Oh I am Yeah, do do you like that better you like that better than eating out right? carpet munching.
[07:02] Mike: But DY is specific for prostitutes and it's ah it's a fairly common ask from guys and I think we've discussed this before like I completely can't identify with this as a guy and she was sort of I mean she was nice about it in answering the question but I mean she made it clear that she doesn't really in that situation. She basically gets nothing out of it right? Like. It's just a bizarre somewhat bizarre request from the guy like I'm not entirely sure what a guy's looking for when he asks a prostitute to let him do that.
[07:29] Keith: Um, I'd be curious I'd be curious if she okay if there was a prostitute that could reliably orgasm from p I v I'd be curious if like yeah she needs to be able to reliably orgasm from piv and from oral. Receiving oral and I'd be curious if ah, it becomes harder with oral than it does with piv with a John like is there something that makes the oral more intimate and more disconnecting when it's with the John I'd be.
[08:00] Mike: Who are you saying that you're wondering whether it's easier for it to orgasm with her actual partner than with her John with the John sorry I missed.
[08:06] Keith: No, no, no, no, no, no, no with the John in PIV or the John with oral can she orgasm either way is her ability to orgasm period just dropped down and so like yeah like she doesn't like oral just as she doesn't like the p I v but that's what the money's for.
[08:12] Mike: No.
[08:23] Mike: I Think that it's um, extremely uncommon for prostitutes have orgasms with their jaws. Um, because you'd need some Well I think I mean there can be chemistry there I've read sort of accounts where the woman claims there's chemistry but I think that it typically it's just she's not comfortable I mean it's.
[08:28] Keith: Yeah, well if they haven't tried with me.
[08:40] Mike: This is one of the piece the many many many many data points in my cluster plot that tell me that like when you have sex with someone that you've only known for five cumulative hours in their life that the woman's not going to have an orgasm because women this is yeah 1 example of why that is like prostitutes don't and it's because they're not comfortable with the guy yet. Um.
[08:54] Keith: Yeah, but they're not trying to be seduced by the guy and in fact to the extent they can. They're probably trying to be very careful not to be seduced by the guy.
[09:04] Mike: Right? That makes sense. Do You think? do you think that you okay so let's set aside the the prostitution angle. Do you think that if you were going to have let's say that you knew with a partner with a female partner that the way you were going to have orgasm this session was by you masturbating your penis. Which I think you are, you're already going to want to notepe out of that right? you say look if it's it's it's pussy or bust. Okay, ah, let's say so but let's say you've agreed to this arrangement. Do You think you would have a materially stronger orgasm if her.
[09:23] Keith: Um, I mean depends.
[09:38] Mike: If her vagina was in your face then if it wasn't then let's say she was just caressing you and stuff like that while you're beating off.
[09:42] Keith: Um, yeah I don't know it depends I I do like going down on a woman that I'm very attracted to I don't as much like going down on a woman that I'm sort of medium attracted to and so.
[09:48] Mike: Okay.
[09:55] Mike: My goodness. Okay.
[09:59] Keith: I mean I normally will because I'm a polite giving lover. But ah.
[10:04] Mike: When you say like like to do it does that mean in a pruent way meaning it would increase your horniiness or just it's fun. Okay.
[10:11] Keith: I think so I I think it would yes, yeah yeah, and so the answer to your question is I don't know I mean could this be distilled down to like we yeah would I prefer 69 or would I prefer just getting blown.
[10:28] Mike: 60 you know and 69 implies that like there's some effort by the woman. First of all, yeah, okay, you're adding the blow in which makes it more complicated I'm I was just trying to look the the the core of this question was you're you're you're you're in an early encounter with a partner and you're having sex.
[10:30] Keith: Like is that like the.
[10:37] Keith: Um, right.
[10:46] Mike: Kind of outer course type sex and I was trying to think of like what a would it I'm interested in 2 things a would it increase your kind of enjoyment significantly enough to make it worth kind of asking for this and B is. Like what? How do you think the woman would or should react to that because it's a little bit like the prostitute being asked for. It's It's not a prostitute.. It's a relationship early relationship. But I mean is it a reasonable ask for the guy to say look like we're having outer course we're sort of like what I'm hooking up and I just want to like kind of.
[11:18] Keith: Um, yeah.
[11:21] Mike: Have my you know I want to like experience my your I want to do DTY with you while I'm beating off and like ja you know increase my orgasm like is that something you think a woman would be recepted to or do you think she'd just be like weird.
[11:31] Keith: Um I don't know it's a it's a good question I'm not sure where this sort of ethical lines that women draw are like a lot of women really don't like you know taking their pants off because you know that sort of.
[11:38] Mike: Her.
[11:46] Keith: I think they' probably feel more exposed. Um, but if a woman could be right and if but if a woman can be made to feel like absolutely comfortable with me I mean the the Venn diagram here has a fairly small center overlap. But.
[11:50] Mike: Um, in an early encounter you mean? okay.
[11:59] Mike: I Got it sure.
[12:03] Keith: If in an early encounter a woman could be made to feel comfortable that I'm not going to try and you know inch the ball forward so to speak. Um.
[12:12] Mike: Um, okay so this would be when you mean by inch the ball forward to be concrete as like move toward PIV or something or like start sticking fingers in her. You know.
[12:19] Keith: Right? Yeah, like it if if I made a request I was like look um I would like to have an orgasm here and it would be better for me if you were naked I'm not sure.
[12:33] Mike: Just like I love I Just love giving oral and like to you're so hot I Just want to like yeah I like I just want to like I know it'll like make me it'll really turn me on even though you're not you know you've already had your orgasm or whatever. It's not going to get you there or.
[12:35] Keith: If they would be.
[12:40] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah I think it's too saddled with I think it's too saddled with the concern that I'm trying to get her naked.
[12:55] Mike: Um, interesting.
[12:56] Keith: To move things towards PIV like that that basically can't be removed from the equation.
[12:58] Mike: Okay, and and there might have 1 more question that's going to be the opposite direction like how have I don't know if you've had this experience. It doesn't necessarily matter but like let's say it was the opposite direction like you're kind of doing this out. Of course thing. The woman is masturbating whatever she's clearly interested in having an orgasm doesn't want have p I v doesn't want you to give her oral like what if she asked. Just you know like you just sort of put your cock in her mouth to amp it up for what how would you feel about that request. She just I love to suck on a cock while I masturbate you have you know I don't know if you've ever had this happen like.
[13:28] Keith: Um, I'm trying to think if I've ever been in a situation where I've been like I don't want to get more naked in front of this person like look I think women erect this scaffolding to like sort of protect themselves and like keep you know they're like oh you know.
[13:38] Mike: Um, okay.
[13:44] Keith: We just did stuff above the bra or we you know like that hasn't happened to me in 20 years but you know they have these like constructions that make them feel more um you know pure or something I don't think I have that concern so if a woman was like hey can you take your shirt off or.
[13:55] Mike: Okay.
[14:01] Keith: Hey can you put your cock in my mouth. Yeah I think I would say yeah no problem to both of those just because you know again I'm a I'm a giving lover.
[14:08] Mike: Okay, that's interesting. Interesting. So yes, so be yeah so the answer is going to be yes and it doesn't really, it's like on a different axis where you're just like more more more sex is better more Nate more nudity is better. Um, yeah I Guess that's right.
[14:17] Keith: Um, yeah, well and I'm not I'm not concerned about my friends judging me for like taking my shirt off in front of ah of a woman like I think some women especially younger women are concerned. With like what their friends will think or say about them taking their shirt off in front of like in front of a boy.
[14:34] Mike: Okay, if you if the woman but flipping the other direction if the woman if you'd already had saypi v with her 5 times then you think she would just be like okay probably like you just be like oh that's that's kind of hot or whatever to putting her vagina on your.
[14:40] Keith: Um, yeah.
[14:47] Keith: Yeah, unless yeah, unless she thought I was unless she thought it was weird for some reason I mean think the construct here where I'm like masturbating in front of her is already a little bit weird in the first place but as assuming that was it and sort. Well why aren't we just.
[14:51] Mike: Face Whatever mouth when right.
[15:01] Mike: Why is that.
[15:06] Keith: Having sex.
[15:07] Mike: I Don't know people like to do different things right? like to I know this one guy that likes to get a belt and like hit his I mean it's consensual of course. But yeah, over the butt who's his partner and until she squeals a little bit so I mean that you know people do different things.
[15:09] Keith: Oh now.
[15:16] Keith: Yeah, move.
[15:23] Keith: Ah, is it a affected squeal or is it a.
[15:27] Mike: I think they always are yeah I mean I think they're always somewhat affected. There's it's a game that's being played right? They want to be. There's some domination domination desired by the way by the way I I saw video today.
[15:37] Keith: Yeah, but it's simulated domination generally. Ah.
[15:44] Mike: Where a woman was saying I mean you know there's like this long lived trope about the successful male executive wanting to be dominated by a dominatrix and this was a woman talking about how because there are so many more female power brokers or whatever in corporate America now that like. Her claim is talking to these women like they all like it's like that but times 10 that like there's all these women out there that really really want to guy to dominate the shit out of them that are like successful, whatever in whatever career path because they already have the basic desire to be dominated and then they're so it's not. You know it's is less unusual than the.
[16:15] Keith: Um I say.
[16:22] Mike: Male executive if that makes sense So apparently like there's like a kind of a need out there among a certain set of women to really? yeah yeah, because they there they spend their whole lives kind of in charge and they really really don't want to be in charge all the time and where a man might.
[16:24] Keith: Um, ah.
[16:27] Keith: For more. Yeah more more Alpha men huh right? right.
[16:41] Mike: Kind of want to be in charge all the time they they most women don't so that was interesting and kind of hot sounding.
[16:42] Keith: Right? Although I do think there is the stereotype of like the you know the male Ceo powerful man who you know in the bedroom does want to be super submissive. So maybe yeah, there is an analogy on both sides there.
[16:57] Mike: Yeah I Just think that it I could see it being more common with women and yeah it sounds sense like kind of hot.
[17:01] Keith: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, all right I want to talk about this exhibitionist. So this person says hold on I'm pulling it up here. Wife wants to have sex in our front yard recently. My wife's sex drive has gone through the roof. Maybe she took testosterone. She's been really into the whole exhibition thing it started with sex in a restaurant bathroom to sex on a hiking trail a few days ago she told me about having sex in our front yard fantasy. She said that she wants to do it when it's dark outside the issue is that we live at this house and know the neighbors the houses are spread pretty far apart. Just don't think it's worth the risk of getting caught. It's not crazy to think that way right? The other issue is if we do this? What's next for her. So I think this man's concerns are are both pretty legit 1 getting caught to where does this slippery slope lead to.
[17:53] Mike: Yeah I mean I'm I'm already pretty bummed out by the restaurant bathroom because restaurant bathrooms I Mean yeah, there's there's well, there's a high. There's a higher standard deviation on cleanliness for sure I mean if you're lucky and they just clean that it's maybe fine, but.
[17:58] Keith: Are gross.
[18:08] Keith: I had sex in a airplane bathroom once and I don't remember it was yeah yeah I am like 1 of the few actual members of the so-called mile high corrupt club.
[18:09] Mike: And it depends on what restaurant to yeah in way, wait while flying I think I remember discussing this okay go on.
[18:22] Mike: And what was the position. You guys used.
[18:27] Keith: Ah I was.
[18:30] Mike: Not sitting on the toilet were you.
[18:34] Keith: Um, that's what I was going to say but I think that's not right I think she was like sort of sitting on the sink which is also fucking gross. Um, it's gross for everybody. Yeah, and then yeah.
[18:40] Mike: Yeah, it's gross for like the next person It's gross like for number. Yeah, how much time did you did it take for you to get did you finish.
[18:51] Keith: I did yeah I'll think she did.
[18:53] Mike: Well, there's no way I mean so but but how you like so was it 5 minutes 2 minutes like how how quickly could you get this done.
[19:00] Keith: It was a ah it was an international flight and it was a red eye so it was it was dark. Um, and this means that most people are sleeping on the plane and it was one of these big you know international airplanes I don't remember what kind, but.
[19:11] Mike: Um, right? sure.
[19:16] Keith: There was tons of bathrooms and there wasn't much you know it's not like there was a bathroom line I doubt it. This is a while ago. Ah no I mean I occasionally get upgraded for free but not I don't.
[19:20] Mike: Um, I assume you were in I seem you were in business class.
[19:28] Mike: Do you fly business class now. Okay, so that while ago thing didn't got it. Yeah I mean if you're in business class. Ah the last time I flew business class like it was ah we had two beds.
[19:34] Keith: I don't pay for that difference.
[19:43] Mike: We're next to each other. So I think you could have there are things that were possible Now you wouldn't be able to actually fuck. But there's things you could have done like with a blanket and blah blah Blah It's it be not the world's greatest experience but okay so you you go in together. It's dark.
[19:44] Keith: I Don't think so.
[19:53] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[20:00] Mike: You get her up on there. You spend like 5 minutes just basically doing the on the counter kind of which is probably okay for you because that sort of seated position for the woman often makes her kind of tighter.
[20:04] Keith: Um, yeah.
[20:11] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I remember so she was the one who wanted to do this and you know I was like all right? Yeah I would I'd like to get that thing ticked off my bucket list and so yeah, we just did and.
[20:15] Mike: Who.
[20:23] Mike: Okay.
[20:28] Keith: Remember when we came out I mean when 2 people go into a bathroom. It's it's a little bit suspicious and I thought when we went in so the plan was she went in first and then you know we arranged which which bathroom it was and then I went in after um.
[20:30] Mike: Yeah.
[20:42] Mike: Um, sure.
[20:45] Keith: And unless someone's like really paying attention. They're not going to notice. But yeah, when you leave it's kind of yeah the the when we I I think she left first but I remember the.
[20:55] Mike: Wouldn't it make more sense for the guy to leave first because there's the unless was there a condom or was there some semen issue. Okay so I think the guy should leave first to the woman could then you know yeah I mean you're going to be a lot of spew.
[21:00] Keith: There wasn't a condom, clean herself up out of my view.
[21:12] Mike: And I mean.
[21:12] Keith: Ah, yeah I mean I was a young man. So I'm sure there was tons. Um.
[21:15] Mike: Okay, well yeah I mean it's just right having the herr leave first gives it gives her precious little opportunity to kind of so there's just going to be stuck and then you know then? okay.
[21:24] Keith: Yeah now I hear yeah I don't remember these details it was I mean this was let me it would have been Well I don't actually want to say the date because there's some people who listen to this who know no, it's not who know.
[21:37] Mike: It was 9 Eleven wasn't it. I was thinking you maybe you are the one who radicalized the the terrorists I like look I I was I was I was cool with the us until this happened and then now it's just disgusting. Yeah.
[21:43] Keith: My partner's back at that era and so I don't want to.
[21:50] Keith: You were like look at this lecherousness going on on their airplanes. This is disgusting all right I don't know if we're too soon for 9 11 jokes but all right? So ah, this person wants to have sex in their front yard. What is it about. I mean it's probably the possibility of getting caught that is hot for her.
[22:11] Mike: I Think so I don't I don't share that ah Kink I have ah in my life like one time I had a man ah henaro working in my yard and I was downstairs in my house.
[22:24] Keith: Ah.
[22:28] Mike: Watching I was alone as Aanne Seinfeld and I was sitting on a couch such that like he couldn't see what I was doing but like I I don't know it didn't I well unclear he was outside and he like kind of looked through the window and knocked and he couldn't see what I was doing but like if he.
[22:35] Keith: He knew? yeah.
[22:46] Mike: The thing that I think with it would be the tell is like kind of the person just sitting there seemingly doing nothing maybe vibrating a little and like a blank stare and I've thought about this before and I just assume that in my life that's happened like 2 or 3 other times just because I think in a lot of cases.
[22:50] Keith: Right? right? yep.
[23:04] Mike: Here's the thing is if somebody sees this happening. They're not going to tell you they're just going to leave. Yeah, ah, not many, maybe once maybe once.
[23:06] Keith: Of course, but how many times have you seen other people masturbating. Do you think not many I I'm I'm thinking zero I don't I can't remember ever walking in on like a college roommate or and so it might be like a.
[23:22] Mike: Um, fair, yeah, that's a fair point. Yes, yeah.
[23:25] Keith: Pretty rare event I'm I think I'm pretty careful. Ah, but I don't know I mean you can see my apartment set up on the on the video here I don't always close that door behind me. So if somebody was like across the way and had binoculars then they might be able to see but.
[23:38] Mike: Um, yeah, well and also because you're standing up you you get completely naked and you put on the superman you have a Superman Costume you put on right.
[23:43] Keith: Whatever.
[23:49] Keith: Ah, now I don't always masturbate standing up I would say that's substantially less than half of my usually I'm sitting down. It's neither. No I do not. Ah.
[23:59] Mike: The it's super not Batman you have some sort of superhero costume you wear right? No do it doesn't matter. Okay, so um I don't yeah so so the thing is I I don't.
[24:08] Keith: Incredible hulk.
[24:15] Mike: I Don't consider myself to be like a massively empathetic person. However I'm empathetic enough to understand that like it's not great for the other person who walks in on this and I don't so it's confusing in me that ah that women and I think women often do have this kind of fantasy and I don't really know what's at the bottom. What's at the bottom of the fantasy because.
[24:24] Keith: Um, right.
[24:34] Mike: Empathetically, it's kind of shitty for the person you're imposing this on I guess maybe it's that they have some fantasy that it's a guy and he's goingnna join in or ah, someone's gonna I don't I really don't know what they're what they're imagining. Yeah.
[24:40] Keith: I don't know. Yeah I don't know it's I've dated a couple people who were in 2 exhibitionism and yeah it was a bit of a pain actually and I sort of shared this guy's concern which is. Yeah, don't want to indulge this too much because I don't know where this goes.
[25:03] Mike: Yeah I mean have you have you had a person who will I mean that this is aimed toward like camming or something where it's It's was it always ah physical in person because but that because that at least feels safer. Although it's ah you know saved on the internet then so it's forever.
[25:11] Keith: I Don't think so.
[25:21] Keith: Um, yeah.
[25:23] Mike: Um, but at least then they don't know your location. They don't really know your identity unless you're that congresswoman that our listener emailed in about last week um I think she whatever she was a candidate for something. yeah so I yeah I don't really I don't know what the the baseline need is there I assume it's just attention or something it's going to be something.
[25:28] Keith: Oh yeah.
[25:42] Mike: Yeah, and I my impression is this is more common among women. Although there's a fairly decently common trope on porn sites that seems to be male focused of like people getting a blow on the beach or fucking in a tent at a campsite and things like this and. I'm not sure. It's the woman kind of making that happen I always assume Porn is the guy's Fault. So.
[26:04] Keith: Yeah I mean I could imagine wanting to like sort of show off and so you know being caught would almost be you know like an ego boost or something. But.
[26:19] Mike: Um, what would you be showing off though like what's the first thing you'd want them to see.
[26:25] Keith: What's not like anything about my performance. It's that like look at this attractive person that I've bagged right? all right? So if if you were to set up a a classic exhibitionist. Ah.
[26:28] Mike: I knew it I Knew that's what you wanted to show off is the is look at the hot chick I think I would want to show off my cock. It's true I'd be like look like I'm actually.
[26:42] Keith: Scenario you would from the from the area that you would possibly be caught from you would want to make sure it has a clean view.
[26:47] Mike: I Think it's impossible I think it's possible look I don't think people would necessarily be impressed by anything but I think it's possible. The thing they would impress them would be my cock and it's possible. They'd like Huh look at that.
[26:55] Keith: Okay, and okay and so if you were into exhibitionism. You think that would be your your driving motivation.
[27:06] Mike: Yeah I wouldn't be though I mean because they're who the the only people who would find that compelling are gay men and so then it's like oh good. Oh great, Let's so they'd They'd Also want to see my anus probably my taint like.
[27:15] Keith: Um, right right.
[27:23] Keith: All right, Let's move on. Ah, what was the next one here. Oh right? Ok yeah, it's the married guy. Ok, ah this person says I'm married my wife is allowing me to see prostitutes.
[27:24] Mike: Yeah.
[27:30] Mike: Um, it's the prostitute.
[27:38] Keith: I live prostitution is totally legal and there are lots of Brothels. My wife is going overseas for a few weeks I am a very horny thirty year old male and generally have sex with my wife every day she said I can see a couple of prostitutes while she's away because she knows how horny I get without sex. It sounds great. But I'm also kind of concerned it will change something in our relationship. Have a great marriage and relationship I wouldn't want anything to ruin that anyone else here been in this situation. Okay, so let let me try to understand this situation. They're having sexgs every day or so he claims and his wife is going away on a.
[28:05] Mike: No, no one has ah yeah.
[28:15] Keith: She's going overseas for a few weeks and she said that he can see a couple of prostitutes because because she knows how horny he gets without sex now. The reason why I pasted this was nothing about the prostitution thing like.
[28:20] Mike: Okay, so 2 2 to 3 call it.
[28:33] Keith: Setting aside like how bad an idea this probably is is the experience of being horny much worse for some men than it is for others like is that a thing that I could go to a future partner with and be like look I'm just I'm just on the ninety eighth percentile on the ah horning is richter scale and.
[28:46] Mike: Um.
[28:51] Keith: It's not my fault I just I need to have a release with with other women so you know can you give me a hall pass like that that sounds preposterous.
[29:00] Mike: I mean sex drive is I mean it's funny but I actually think so there's 2 sides that one is is it possibly true. Yeah I actually think that's I I don't find that totally unbelievable that there could be guys that are on some level now the second question of like should you like what should be the reaction to that like. Well okay, that that. Okay, first thing is I actually I actually do like the idea of a guy asking for this suggested it amuses me and oh and the other thing is just my my general prior on stuff like this is I think that if you um I think that.
[29:22] Keith: Um, she's already having sex with him every day.
[29:34] Keith: Um.
[29:37] Mike: People are too black and white I mean this is obvious people are too black and white about things. So I think that like guys would say oh ah, the probability of the the female partner saying yes to this is is zero. It's not 0 It's probably something like 10% it's It's not 0 like like there's a significant number of men where this would work. Actually the woman would say oh ok.
[29:47] Keith: Um.
[29:54] Keith: Yeah, but the downside is probably a divorce So I'm not sure I don't know I've never been married. Ah I don't think you should know.
[29:56] Mike: Okay.
[30:00] Mike: Um, just for asking shouldn't you be applauded for your honesty I think it depends on your relationship. But I mean it I think that the vast majority of women whether be asked. Okay.
[30:12] Keith: I Don't think you should be applauded for your honesty in this case I think most women would prefer not to be asked if if ah their partner could sleep with other women. Even even if even if she knows in her heart of hearts that he probably does.
[30:23] Mike: Okay, okay, but given the choice between he just goes out and fucks prostitutes on the 1 hand and the second one is he asks for permission and then doesn't if she says no I think she would pick that if those is that are the choices.
[30:38] Keith: I Don't even know it's ah is that even I've thought about like the ethics and morality around cheating a bunch of times I mean you could imagine a you know what? you don't know can't hurt you the situation here now I I.
[30:46] Mike: Ah.
[30:54] Keith: In in prospect would always prefer my partner to tell me when she's going to fuck somebody else. But if it really was an innocuous thing and it you know really doesn't affect our relationship like what does knowing get get me other than like a bunch of.
[31:10] Mike: It's a fair question it's a fair question I was it makes me think a little bit just as a brief aside this this prostitute in Australia escort I should guess I should call her who I feel like I should I should link to maybe I'll link to her in the show notes if I remember.
[31:13] Keith: Handwringing.
[31:20] Keith: Sex worker. Now throw her a bone.
[31:28] Mike: Ah, but yeah, her name is Lilith Lilith lodge is her name. She has a big forehead. So I assume premature birth black hair. She's pretty attractive. She has lots of tattoos very light skin anyway, um she ah she said.
[31:43] Keith: You normally don't tolerate tattoos I'm surprised you haven't blocked her or what whatever the yeah.
[31:46] Mike: Yeah, it's true it's true I don't it's that's not that's not my favorite part. She says that in Australia it's not legal to ask somebody if they are h I b positive and she's fine with not being told by her clients.
[32:03] Keith: Ah I see where this is going.
[32:04] Mike: Because they're undetectctor. You know because of various precautions that can be taken so I just so I just thought that was sort of interesting like this notion that where the culture is now on on this topic is you don't need to tell escorts if you have HIV so this would be certainly it but that would be certainly ah a reasonable risk for a partner to be concerned about is hey if you're.
[32:09] Keith: Um, yep.
[32:24] Mike: Out there sleeping with prostitutes. You're probably going to catch something right.
[32:27] Keith: Yeah, yeah, but I mean that's sort of like a pragmatic and practical concern and so yeah, like if.
[32:35] Mike: Yeah, and let's say you say you say hey I'm not going to have p I v with them. My thing is I just want to look at their boobs and then give them a facial which actually is I mean is that cheating.
[32:46] Keith: I Think many women would say yes I don't think I mean what is anything what does cheating even mean.
[32:50] Mike: But you but what if you say look it's like look honey. This is just as degrading as it can possibly be like I'm not even I'm not touching her I'm and I'm actually facializing her which most women probably don't want done to them. So yeah, you could say look.
[32:58] Keith: Right? right? right? You have not seducing her.
[33:10] Mike: Here's what I do I save all the best sex for you honey. But I just do the degrading things to this prostitute so actually actually the opposite of cheating I'm I'm true thing I'm honesting.
[33:14] Keith: Ah, right.
[33:21] Keith: Ah I think she might divorce you because you are probably a sociopath. Um I think so it's like not understanding that well for one you're you're lessering these women.
[33:25] Mike: Um, that's sociopathic. Why.
[33:38] Keith: Probably wouldn't like that. Yeah.
[33:39] Mike: Which the the prostitutes. Okay, so she would divorce you because of some sort of like it's this isn't ah this is like some sort of way you've okay sociopath you're saying way you view all of society. Not the way you're treating her. Oh look who you are as a person you you you want to do this activity.
[33:47] Keith: Right.
[33:55] Keith: This this abnormal activity. No, it's not that's true. Yeah I don't I look I've never been married and in most of my long term relationships I've had very open very candid.
[33:55] Mike: I don't think that's very nice though because it's like some guys want to give facials but giving facials is not abnormal. It's like 1 of the top 10 things on porn sites. Yeah so what's the other you know.
[34:14] Keith: Conversations about um, my proclivities and desires and so I don't know what it's like to be in what I imagine the typical marriage is which is you know you sort of over time negotiate.
[34:20] Mike: Okay.
[34:32] Keith: Bounds Ah, but around what you're allowed to talk about and and what's normal and if you're feeling unsatisfied with that. You almost have to keep it to yourself because the other partner will be a hurt or offended or upset and that I mean that seems intolerable to me. That's.
[34:44] Mike: You make marriage sound really fun for sure.
[34:50] Keith: You know one of the reasons why I'm I'm a little marriage hesitant. Um, and so ah, but yeah so I just don't know how you know let's say I'd been married for 7 years and you know I come up to my partner and I'm like look like I'm just not really satisfied by our sex life. Can we talk about like various things that might change that for me.
[34:55] Mike: I Hear you? ah okay, but.
[35:10] Keith: And like I just expect most women are going to react poorly to that. But maybe I'm wrong.
[35:12] Mike: Yeah, yeah I think that I mean I think they probably would react react poorly. However I think they're I don't think it's sociopathic. That's the only argument I would make I think that I think that women associate some of these activities with.
[35:18] Keith: I think men would too fair enough.
[35:30] Mike: Bonding with a partner in sort of a couple context in a way that men don't have to or don't necessarily do and I and I think this leads to things like trying to make get a guy not to use Porn I don't I think it's perfectly possible although kind of unusual but it would be I think would be I would find it perfectly believable that there was a guy who had some fetish about like. Whatever Jising on big tits or something he says look I Just want to every so often Hire a girl I won't kiss her or anything I'm just going to beat off onto her tits and I I could see that happening in the context of a coupled situation and and the woman would It's not sociopathic. The woman would his partner would just be wrong to think that it's somehow. Impugns her or anything It's just he has this thing he likes to do. That's not that different from going down to the bar and hanging out with his friends or whatever, whatever on the other hand I understand that it would be difficult for her to differentiate between that and the guy who actually is you know carrying on much fuller relationships or whatever.
[36:16] Keith: Um, yeah.
[36:27] Mike: You know meeting deeper needs with these these women and and because it's difficult to differentiate I think women are reluctant to permit such a thing.
[36:34] Keith: I Don't know if it is well I agree that women probably struggle to differentiate between a sort of emotional affair and a physical affair and I think a lot a lot of affairs that men claim.
[36:40] Mike: Yes, yes.
[36:51] Keith: But just physical are actually also emotional and so that's muddying the waters a little bit here too.
[36:54] Mike: Yeah, and actually I would think that the average woman would find an emotional affair more problematic I think they should find that more problematic because that's suggestive that their relationship's going to fall apart whereas if it's just the guy has some weird.
[37:08] Keith: Um I agree.
[37:12] Mike: Fetish or whatever thing he wants to do that Honestly, his wife could be sitting there in the room. He doesn't care. You know.
[37:14] Keith: Well yeah, no I know but but this is why the the waters are muddied. The men are claiming that it was a ah yeah, it was just purely physical because.
[37:24] Mike: Okay, let me flip this around for you. How would you feel if you were in a you know you've been in several long term relationships and your partner said look I just have this. Let's see I just want to every so often watch a guy with like an eight inch cock just stroke himself till he nuts.
[37:42] Keith: I'd say I'd say why? not why not watch me. Okay, ah.
[37:43] Mike: I just like to watch that in person every so often. Okay, nine inch something you know, let's let's say it's ah a black guy a guy that's not a different ethnicity from you like there's something that you can't accomplish for her or ah, she wants to watch you know so yes, but you know she's not going to touch him. Would you say.
[37:54] Keith: Right.
[38:01] Mike: No, would you say you want to be there. How would would you be worried about it suggesting that your relationship is doomed.
[38:07] Keith: I Mean in a vacuum I would conceptually be fine with that I think I'm not super jealous I don't think that the main value that I bring to a relationship is my amazing performance in bed I think I'm I think I'm very competent but.
[38:10] Mike: Yeah.
[38:22] Mike: Um, who.
[38:25] Keith: If like my partner revealed to me that there was like some itch that wasn't being scratched I wouldn't be shocked and I I don't think I would be offended I might be a little bit bummed I think that's sort of natural but I don't think it would be like relationship ending for me like I think it would be for many people.
[38:39] Mike: Would you rather watch her watch the dude do this or would you rather just be like go just go do your thing I know you have this appointment every month from six p m to eight p M on this day and I know what's happening or would you say oh or would you want a video like what would you.
[38:49] Keith: Ah, yeah I think I would prefer not to watch I think the I think that Jealousy Reflex would be made worse if I was watching her like actually enjoy it when it's abstract.
[38:57] Mike: So that's what I think too Now that's interesting for me. It's not yeah, it's it's it's for for me, It's not jealousy. It's that it's the just. It's.
[39:08] Keith: When it's abstract I don't think I might as much.
[39:13] Mike: And I apologize to our 1 gay listener. But for me, it's the yeah, it's just like it's some bay it's not I mean obviously I've been in many locker rooms. It's the full male sexual response cycle I don't know I've thought about this you know number of times I just am not sure I think that might.
[39:16] Keith: The trauma of seeing another cock.
[39:24] Keith: Yeah.
[39:31] Mike: I Just don't know if I would enjoy that I think I would not enjoy it. It's just that I would. It's not that I would be necessarily traumatized. It's just I would it would just be gross to me be like oh I don't I do not want to see a guy orgasmy which is funny because in porn I don't really care but in real life I think it would sort of frighten me on some level I'd be like Wow that's.
[39:35] Keith: Yeah.
[39:51] Mike: Like just just a couple feet difference and that would be inside my body. Yeah, the erect male penis is sort of a weapon on some level.
[39:54] Keith: Right? All right? Yeah I'm not sure I too have not been in this situation I ah have I ever been in a room with another erect Male penis I don't yeah.
[40:06] Mike: Well, it's like the have you caught someone masturbating question right.
[40:11] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah I don't think I have or this move on. Ah.
[40:15] Mike: Um, hang on I wanted to say that I did once catch a girl masturbating.
[40:21] Keith: Ah, go on.
[40:24] Mike: Yeah, it was This is like this this is going to sound like a penthouse forum. Ah story I was on a road trip right? Yeah I was on a road trip right? after high school with a friend from high school and we went to a city that I won't name. Um, yeah well I don't in case.
[40:27] Keith: Oh boy Pull up a chair.
[40:36] Keith: Keep her identity safe twenty years later oh good
[40:42] Mike: It's in case he hears it but ah the um, we went to the city where he had family that lived there which this is already now of years as it you'll now and his cousin his cousin was it was female and she was young and they yeah yeah of age but not but you know my age and ah.
[40:48] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[40:56] Keith: Right.
[41:02] Mike: Yeah, she was. We were all sleeping on the floor and like sleeping bags or something like that and she first I think she might have been something wrong with her but she immediately like was attracted to me and was sort of like wanting to cuddle with me which is something that high school girls do by the way like when you're 171819 this is a behavior girls have that's i.
[41:17] Keith: Um.
[41:22] Mike: Guess endearing to guys but also makes guys relentlessly horny and kind of it's irritating on some level. Anyway, we all went to sleep I did not I mean he was my friend's cousin who was a little weird and then I woke up and she was masturbating.
[41:24] Keith: Yeah, a little frustrating.
[41:32] Keith: Um, right right.
[41:37] Mike: Very clearly like you know shaking and like right, you know and like yeah it may I mean it's one of these things that later. Yeah I mean later you regret it as a guy I was like ah well I should have just offered her my penis. Oh I can help with that. Yeah.
[41:38] Keith: That's kind of that's kind of Alpha of her I like that.
[41:49] Keith: Yeah, right, right? Yeah I mean when you're young, It's hard to yeah various various expectations feel more important.
[41:59] Mike: Now. But I didn't see her hand like touching her vulva or anything Obviously so there's that yeah, that's right.
[42:09] Keith: Sure yeah, you just know that she was right? Okay, this person says partner came on my face for the first time my 22 okay this this woman is 22 and her partner is 32 ah my partner and I have been exploring lately. We talked.
[42:18] Mike: Um, okay.
[42:26] Keith: About him coming on my face since I'd never done it before I was excited to try it happened and he kind of just left me there feeling alone afterwards he said he was great but I couldn't really focus because it went directly into my eyes and I couldn't see he gave me a shirt a shirt of all things to get it off my one. My one eye swelled shut and still hurts the morning after.
[42:32] Mike: Smart.
[42:45] Keith: Know the risk and that this could have happened but after I cleaned up I just wanted some cuddles or back tickles because I didn't love the experience. He said he was too tired and rolled over I feel hurt and like I never want to do it again Now it was supposed to be fun I'm not sure why I just feel dirty now which I've never felt after trying something new.
[42:54] Mike: Good for him.
[43:04] Keith: Told him this and he says I'm overreacting am I Okay so I brought this up because as our longtime listeners for even medium-term listeners know I have some weird feelings about blowjobs Generally I think a lot of women are pretending they like to give blowjobs and it seems so strange to me. That Yeah, like this is the experience that I would expect a lot of women to have about blowjobs. Generally it's like okay I want to try this thing I know he'll like it but then like he comes down your throat and then he is not horny anymore and like you know, switches back to like normal.
[43:39] Mike: Ah.
[43:43] Keith: Man being you know disregarding what you say and or you know, whatever it is that you know ah boys are want to do especially ones that are 10 years older than you.? Ah yeah, I'd expect a lot of women to sort of have this like regret after giving blowjobs but they seem to not but in this particular case this woman is. I Mean she's done something a little bit outside of the normal blowjob Realm which is like receive a facial I don't know like what percentage of women who engage in blowjobs often receive facials but I bet it's less than half or something.
[44:18] Mike: It's going to be really uncommon because of the smell. But what what is your? what is your? what is the I Just so I understand how do you? What? Why is it different ah to you? So let's let's take hold hold the man's behavior after the act is complete constant. So let's say a man has a certain refracting.
[44:34] Keith: Ah.
[44:36] Mike: Um, Cadence or trajectory. Ah so he comes down your throat as you said which I actually that I like that phraseology versus he comes in your vagina. Okay so what is the difference. Why why does him? what is where his nut goes.
[44:44] Keith: Okay.
[44:53] Mike: Changed The woman's experience so completely so holding his behavior constant.
[44:57] Keith: This is a is a good chess move I think that one is more biologically selected for than the other it's it's I Think. A woman is more likely to feel regret after a blowjob than from PiV and more likely to feel regret after a facial than after a blowjob.
[45:24] Mike: Because okay because you think that there is that she's.
[45:28] Keith: I Think each one is increasingly submissive and increasingly like sort of trustful of the partner and so their behavior of being sort of at Turd after is a.
[45:41] Mike: Um, you think that the you think that the receiving wait which one is more trustful taking down your throat or taking it in your vagina because the vagina one seems pretty trustful to me because you could get pregnant.
[45:54] Keith: Yeah I hear you I do feel like blowjobs in some ways are more intimate.
[46:03] Mike: Okay, yes, in high school. We assigned 5 points for a blow and 4 points for PIV 3 points for hand job and I can't remember the rest. Yeah, and then we and then we um I can't remember we had some other.
[46:10] Keith: Um, really I'm surprised.
[46:20] Mike: System for anal and gay and stuff like that I think there was there was something that was a negative a negative reverse five I remember that but I don't remember what it was yes.
[46:22] Keith: Ah, but classically classically ah with the baseball system. You know a home run is is p I v and then I guess third base is a blowjob or something so you guys turn that on its end.
[46:36] Mike: Yeah, we I mean I think that um we did which is odd considering that the culture and I think I've said this on the podcast before at our high school was that the women won the girls were to swallow so I didn't actually know about girls Spitting. Or avoiding the semen until after high school oddly because I because I just had not encountered that as like I think I think somehow maybe I mean this is the town I grew up in maybe people should run down there because in that town somehow the the newspaper the Journalists had had hidden. The other options for semen disposition from the young the young ladies pretty pretty nice. Yeah, so there was yeah I was just assumed. It was absolutely absolutely Assumed. You would swallow to the point where I remember ah a girl.
[47:13] Keith: That's so yeah, they're they're grooming the entire youth of the town into into swallowing. Yeah good good public service.
[47:27] Mike: 1 of the girls I dated in high school she would when she was blowing me she would if she took her mouth off of it to use her hand for a while she would keep her mouth open sort of near the end of my penis like as if like I'm just assuming I'm assuming she had a previous partner that would sort of not by surprise.
[47:37] Keith: Just in case, right.
[47:44] Mike: In retrospect at the time I was confused by it because I thought well I feel like I make it obvious what's happening I I don't make it a hit and thing but I also know that in porn a lot of times. It is kind of surprising when the guy nuts. So of course at the time I didn't know that I didn't have the level of porn consumption that I have had since. Okay.
[47:48] Keith: Write the f.
[48:04] Mike: But ah, okay, so you think that the blow is more intimate in some way and that the woman is is is somehow suffering some indignity having the semen in her mouth that she would not suffer if it went in her vagina.
[48:16] Keith: So I guess can we at least agree that a facial is more intimate than ah, nutting down her throat I don't know if.
[48:25] Mike: I Don't agree that it's more intimate I think it's more annoying and kind of it's more aggressive I Don't think my basic my basic view on this is women don't care where the semen goes. That's my basic view. There are women who say oh I get a stomachache. Oh I can't stand the texture. There are things like that. But but if you if you.
[48:43] Keith: Um.
[48:44] Mike: If you wind the clock forward 30 minutes and say okay, forget about all that I'm just going to tell you where the semen went. They just don't care. They just they just say well as long as I'm not pregnant I just don't and I don't have an sdi I don't care where I went again. That's just about practical.
[48:52] Keith: Um I think I don't think they want it in their hair or eyes.
[49:01] Mike: And and and yeah and there's a certain Um, it's annoying and it's aggressive to do that. But between ah yeah, the the various like for example women if you like if if you said do a woman hate you want me to blow my load on your stomach or your tits they.
[49:01] Keith: Ok I understand what you're saying.
[49:18] Mike: I Do not think a woman could construct a plausible. She just doesn't care.
[49:21] Keith: I hear I think there are some things around the edges here like I think that fluid bonding so coming inside of a woman's vagina can be a thing I don't know if they actually get like hormones or chemical released from that but fluid bonding is at least something you read about a lot. So.
[49:30] Mike: Ah.
[49:37] Mike: You mean they get some some extra experience from interacting with your semen and then of course I'm going to say why wouldn't their mouth. Do the same thing and the answer is it probably would because you're you're just yeah.
[49:39] Keith: Ah, can imagine I I don't know I don't know but I've ah you've you've I don't know you could imagine the body having developed some response to prefer. The nut to be inside of them over the years over the eons.
[50:00] Mike: Sure I think the response there. Let's see as opposed to in their mouth. I mean the things I would say about look here's here's my prior on that I don't think what the woman wants matters with all due respect to our female listeners. Women are weaker than men I'm talking about prehistorically so you go back like 20000 years my my prior in this is all the women got pregnant and so then to the extent that the women are selected for It's not a question of whether you had babies. It's a question of whether the guy took care of the babies afterward. That's like and which is which explains why women pursue relationships and don't want to have babies with someone until they feel confident in because.
[50:22] Keith: Ah.
[50:38] Mike: All the women can get pregnant I Think that's basically always been true and similarly if a guy wants to impregnate you he's or whatever he wants to have an orgasm near you as a woman Prehistorically, he's going to decide where it goes and so and and so then it's so then in why is that matter because ah. The Vagina does feel better for the man right? I mean it it is it is important. It is important for natural hang on I'm not dying. It is important for evolution that the vagina feel better than the anus and feel better than the mouth and feel better than a titty fuck and feel better than like hot dogging or butt Cheekeks. It does need in and in in.. In fact, it does right.
[50:59] Keith: Okay, so you think.
[51:06] Keith: Um, yes, yeah, and you think that takes care of everything There doesn't need to be an additional like chemical or hormone release from the fluid bonding.
[51:20] Mike: Now of course because all the women are going to get pregnant. Yeah, the the the Okay so ah, another step in the logic chain here if there were a man who had a trait or something whatever something that happened in his childhood that made for him.
[51:37] Mike: Fucking a woman's mouth just feels so much better than a vagina that he always selected that that man would not procreate because the woman's mouth can't get pregnant. So yeah, there is definitely a selection toward the yeah men nutting in the vagina which is why I mean there's it's obvious there's a strong selection for that. That's why these are all.
[51:43] Keith: Yeah.
[51:54] Keith: Yeah, but I I'm arguing there's like an additional selection thing which is that they might feel some sort of better reward. You don't think that's needed.
[51:57] Mike: Rogerous stones and so forth.
[52:03] Mike: The woman I Yeah but I just don't think I don't think there's any foundation for that belief right? Like why I don't think there's any foundation for anything like that. Why would a woman why would anything about a woman's experience of sex matter. It doesn't matter right.
[52:19] Keith: I Think it matters incrementally now I think it matters incrementally like it's like yeah I think Beauty is selected for I think various things that like.
[52:19] Mike: I Realize it matters to them. Emotionally it matters in a modern context I mean Evolutionarily really. Yes, but the way Beauty's selected for is the man is more likely to stick around to raise the kids of the beautiful woman. They're all all ugly the ugliest possible woman will get pregnant exactly as many times as the most beautiful possible woman is yeah I'm sure of that. There's always gonna be some gimp that comes along and.
[52:45] Keith: Right.
[52:46] Mike: It impregnates you. It's just not yeah women don't have this problem I Guess if you're I mean. Okay, if you actually had a physical deformity or ah, you know down syndrome or something then as a woman. Yes, you would a man probably wouldn't but even then honestly I think you still have a decent shot of getting pregnant.
[53:02] Keith: Can can people with down syndrome reproduce.
[53:04] Mike: Right? Like you have to be pretty deformed as a woman. Not I don't know but I bet they've had a lot of semen deposited in them I'm sorry listeners. Yeah, so the so the point the point is the yeah, not my semen. Ah.
[53:11] Keith: My my word this is if there was ever if if there was ever a clip that could get you canceled that was it's ah right, right? right? right.
[53:24] Mike: But good semen from very good people that love all types of people. The is the point is that I don't think that ah women I don't think there's any reason for a woman to care about this and so then I think this comes down to an emotional concern. You have the the thing that I've been told by other people that know you.
[53:33] Keith: Okay.
[53:43] Mike: Is that the reason you feel this way is some sort of like ah you're you're over kind overly concerned about like the woman's point of view or something you're trying to like sort of ah by by being concerned about by being concerned about the woman's experience of giving a blow. You're like overly trying to empathize with their viewpoint.
[53:49] Keith: Wait which way do I feel what do I feel what am I being accused of here. Oh.
[54:03] Mike: And you're doing so sort of erroneously you're trying to like in. Okay.
[54:05] Keith: Oh I can see it I'm doing it erroneously that part that part I'm not. It's like ah yeah I can intellectualize that I shouldn't eat that extra chocolate chip cookie but I still do like just because you can intellectualize something doesn't mean that you can.
[54:18] Mike: Um, yeah I mean even taking your own logic. Okay, you're saying that it's disrespectful or kind of aggressive toward the woman. What if the woman likes that like yeah, why can't a woman say hey I Want. What happens to me to be more kind of submissive and more like I want to be dominated. So yeah, he should fuck in my mouth.
[54:33] Keith: Um, because because I think a lot of women's experience. Women's experience is something like the one that this person is describing like when when the man like comes on her face. It's like.
[54:40] Mike: Yeah.
[54:45] Mike: Sure.
[54:49] Keith: A lot of women do actually want to be submissive but only to someone that they really care about and and there's like a thin line there between like imposition and actually wanting it and.
[54:55] Mike: Um, okay.
[55:05] Mike: Um, but I don't the issue here is not.
[55:06] Keith: I Think that line gets like fucking trampled by men all of the fucking time and I don't It's really hard for me to like square like when the right time to like and then like yeah like by the time I'm you know, convinced that the person likes me enough I'm usually into like a realm now where like. Actually respect them a lot and um, you know doing various like hyper dominant acts to them feels disrespectful for that reason.
[55:27] Mike: I don't okay I know. I agree with you that men trample all over that all the time but I don't agree that that's the problem that women then have when the relationship breaks down or was never there in the first place I don't think that women sit around thinking. Oh you know I went on 6 dates with this guy and we had sex 4 times and then the next thing they're thinking about is that semen dripping down their chin or how they swallowed you know a lot of come. They're upset because of how the relationship went I think that that other part is just a complete afterthought like to the to the woman. She'd say well yeah when I like someone I want him to.
[56:00] Keith: Um, yeah.
[56:05] Keith: I think it depends I think it depends I think it depends like I think this woman is for the rest of her life not going to like facials because she had this like 1 experience and it's sort of like you know, etched a line in her brain. That's not never going to go away.
[56:07] Mike: You know use my body I want him to take me. That's what I want.
[56:20] Mike: Sure well, that's just classic conditioning but I don't think that has to do with sex so much as it's just a practical problem. For example, if she had PIV with a guy that had a really big penis and or maybe she wasn't well lubricated and she got you know it hurt the next day or right afterward.
[56:36] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[56:40] Mike: I Think the same thing might happen. She might say oh I can't handle guys more than a certain size or you know whatever I need to use Lube So I don't but I don't think that there's anything particular about this act that did that and also okay, yeah, so she got something in her eye that hurt.
[56:45] Keith: Um, yeah.
[56:55] Mike: Okay, well,, that's how could you ever cast that as a positive but let's say that hadn't happened. Let's say that it had just been on her face but she'd found it kind of disrespectful okay or you know yeah, it's not her favorite thing if if there was a guy that she really liked and they kept dating. And they really got along well and his thing was he just wanted to jizz on her face I am actually positive. She'd start liking it. Oh That's our thing as long as it wasn't actively painful.
[57:16] Keith: Yeah I don't know I don't I don't know if I'm positive I Generally agree. No the problem here wasn't that her eye swelled shut. It's that he didn't give a shit. It's that like he it's like after he came he like threw through her like a you know Sweaty t-shirt and then rolled over and said.
[57:26] Mike: Yeah.
[57:36] Keith: You deal with it. That's what she's upset about she's not upset. Yeah, it could.
[57:36] Mike: But that could happen with PIV too that could happen with pi it could happen with anal get up with any basically a woman is much more likely to be injured in some way during sex than a man and when that happens it really sucks for the woman because after the guy nuts it. He wants to go to sleep.
[57:50] Keith: It it could. But I think there's like I think there's like ah a tear list of a T I E R list of things that women might feel bad about so like if a woman has anal with a man and then he behaves a certain way and or if she you know.
[57:58] Mike: Right.
[58:09] Keith: Has of receives a facial from a man and then he behaves a certain way or if she has Pi V with a man and he behaves a certain way or they just like make out and he behaves a certain way like some are more affect. Some are more affecting than others.
[58:20] Mike: Yeah I mean I don't But yeah I hear you but I For example I had an experience in college with a woman girl where we I said to her something like and it was a dumb thing to say I said to her something like. You know sometimes I have trouble taking women seriously because I always imagine that I could like bend them over the table and fuck them which you know she and I did frequently. She really didn't like that right because well she didn't like it for obvious reasons and it was a stupid thing for me to say now.
[58:39] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[58:52] Mike: Wasn't false I was telling the truth about how I felt but the point I want to make around that is this is an activity you would not at all put on the list of things that a woman might feel ashamed about like being facialized analyzed, whatever but basically any sexual behavior between men and women a man can characterize this way and make a woman feel bad like.
[58:59] Keith: Right? Well, it would be low on the list. But yeah.
[59:08] Keith: Um, yeah.
[59:10] Mike: Yeah, just when you're having missionary sex with a woman. She's in a pretty vulnerable position and if you if you ah were with a partner and you're having missionary with her. You could probably really upset her just by like saying the right 1 sentence thing to her.
[59:22] Keith: Yeah, you disrespect her after in some way right.
[59:26] Mike: Or even during and because the thing is the truth is she's in this really vulnerable position where something kind of embarrassing is happening to her I mean I mean think about, um, you know if you watch like the passion of the Christ or whatever like the um, the the moment often in those. Types of movies the moment. That's the most embarrassing is when they nail the nails through the guy's hands that you know Jesus or whatever when they're crucifying why is that so embarrassing. Well, it's painful, but it's also he's being penetrated like being penetrated is pretty embarrassing right? It's like your that's or like ah you know the. The the ancient romans would pour molten gold down someone's throat or whatever to kill them like these things where you go into someone's body like these are this is like very rough stuff. It's very aggressive psychologically and so when a woman has something stuck up her body if you then go after her anyway. I'm just saying I think I don't think I think that. Ah.
[01:00:06] Keith: Ah.
[01:00:15] Keith: You disagree with my tear list.
[01:00:17] Mike: Ah, facials. Yes I well I hear you that anal is it's it's look if you analyze if you have anal sex with a woman. It's easier to make fun of them because for example, there might be poop like there's things you could make fun of but I think that I think that I could I think that I could. It's not that much harder to take a woman to tears during missionary by. You know, really upset her by making fun of her because and it's much harder to make fun of the guy now you could make fun of the guy about what he's like when he orgasms that would be kind somewhat kind of an equivalent like Nikki Niki Glazer has some you know who that is she's like 1 of these awful. Well not great comedians who's like.
[01:00:45] Keith: I'm sure right. I don't.
[01:00:56] Mike: Ah, Schumer Amy Schumer and she has this bit about how my parents never and she only talks about sex. That's the important thing. No if a woman I mean I don't have any problem with female comedians generally although they often just talk about their vaginas and that's the that's the trope that people use anyway.
[01:00:56] Keith: Okay, in in that she's and that she's a female I see.
[01:01:10] Keith: Um, yeah.
[01:01:15] Mike: She has this whole thing about men turning into demons when they come right? So there's some equivalent where it's like I'm going to take this thing that you might feel sensitive about and go after you anyway.
[01:01:21] Keith: Um.
[01:01:25] Keith: Right? Yeah, okay, all right? That's probably a good place to wrap so that'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary. You can send us feedback or questions to why Mmv Pod at gmail.com we pay $10 for feedback. So just give us your Paypal or Venmo or whatever.
[01:01:29] Mike: Sure.
[01:01:43] Keith: Ah, if you ask us a question. Let us know if we have permission to use it on the show or not thanks for taking the time to listen and we will catch you next week on your mileage may vary.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 148: Optimizing Female Orgasms, Outercourse Transitions, Public Sex Anxiety, Prostitute Permission, Facial Aftercare

Episode Transcript