YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary Podcast

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Episode 151: Surgery Pitfalls, Porn Viewing Trends, Gay Cruising, Sex Worker First Times

Team YMMV | 1-12-2024 | 1:03:18

Read The Transcript

In a thought-provoking start to the new year, we discuss requests for unusual types of porn made by men on Reddit, paired with a conversation about PornHub's 2023 porn trends data. Where are men coming up with these rather strange requests? Is it indicative of what they want in real life, or have they just been conditioned by online content?

If you've ever wondered where the hot spots are in your city for gay cruising, but you haven't wanted to install the Grindr app on your phone for whatever reason, we've got a site you can visit just to get the lay of the land. Lots of cocks, and some good information.

How do people justify getting plastic surgery, and is it effective? Is there an analogy between it and makeup, or is there a bright line? And, what advice should a young man get who is considering losing his virginity with a sex worker?

Here's the site we discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/151/sniffies

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/151/surgery

https://ymmv.me/151/sex-worker

https://ymmv.me/151/dryness

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith. We've got some fun topics for today's show including male plastic surgery advice for a man about to lose his virginity to a sex worker how to lubricate tri vaginas and more.
[00:18] Mike: Um, size.
[00:19] Keith: And Keith my co-host is mike it's invisible to our listeners. But this is our first conversation in nearly a month did you miss me I don't believe you. But.
[00:26] Mike: No.
[00:35] Keith: Um, what do you have for us.
[00:38] Mike: I've got a few things to talk about here quickly. Um, we did get some Well it's not we got some listener feedback but I don't think it's all that interesting. Honestly, um, we'll skip that.
[00:39] Keith: Okay.
[00:46] Keith: Okay.
[00:51] Mike: There was somebody who wrote in and they wanted ah the audio from the orgasm that was sent in to us from episode one ten and so I obliged we haven't had one of those in a while. Um I do we I post I should say I posted the reason this happened is that I I pinned so my subreddit.
[00:55] Keith: Ah, okay, yeah.
[01:07] Mike: Slash r slash curated amateur porn now has 25000 subscribers um and ah, what? what do I say I pinned that episode audio to the top of it and actually it's been doing getting a lot of clicks because it has this woman true. It's a true amateur I mean this is a woman who sent in an orgasm to us and we listen to it.
[01:23] Keith: Right? right.
[01:27] Mike: Ah, so if see people want to go check that out episode one 10 I think it might be our most listened to episode at this point. Um.
[01:31] Keith: How is that is it because we're getting inbound traffic from that subreddit to that episode or like.
[01:40] Mike: We've gotten several hundred listens just from that in the last like week so so a little bit. Yes, but I actually noticed in the analytics that like that episode is just consistently done. Well so somehow people know yeah I'm not sure.
[01:44] Keith: Huh.
[01:51] Keith: I Wonder what people are searching for and then finding it. But yeah I mean we've we've long known that audio porn. Ah really makes for successful podcasts right? like.
[01:57] Mike: Um.
[02:06] Keith: So much of like the top like ten sex podcasts are just people reading Literotica right.
[02:13] Mike: Yeah I mean they're basically 2 things you can do you can do that you can also the other the other winning strategies I mean look if you want and ah a podcast that does well just do highly produced. Um real ah true crime. That's that's going to work but you have to spend a lot of time on it and then in the sex and relationships area.
[02:22] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[02:29] Mike: If you're just as woke as possible and you just tell people what they want to hear you'll do the best which is yeah, it's an unfortunate critique on our culture that people just are looking for and the algorithms find the things that agree with them the most. So it's harder for us. Although we have our niche to grow because of that.
[02:42] Keith: Yeah, yeah, we're the countercultural sex podcast I guess.
[02:48] Mike: Right? Um, so I ran across this site during the holidays that um I don't think you've heard of probably it's called sniffies.com yeah s n I f f I e s dot com and while you and maybe our listeners are going to it. Let me tell you a little bit about it.
[03:00] Keith: Sniffies.
[03:07] Mike: It's essentially a way to use grinder without having to install grinder grinder being the app that gay men can find can use to find hookups with one another and what I found especially interesting about sniffies. First of all, if you just want to see what cock is in your area now.
[03:11] Keith: Huh.
[03:23] Mike: Keith is in San Francisco so there's a lot of cock. That's the spoiler alert for you. Ah, it'll it'll basically show you what it shows you is a map of your area. You can have it figure out where you are based on your Gps or if you don't give it that your ip address so it pretty much knows where you are you have to pay if you want to travel to another area just like.
[03:39] Keith: Um, holy smokes I Just logged in and I'm seeing Holy cow. Yeah.
[03:41] Mike: 1 of the dating apps. Ah yes, a lot of cock right? So the thing I thought was the most interesting about this is yeah I mean it's interesting to see your neighbors Cox. Ah. Like there were people on my street that are just on there waggling the cock around looking for and and these are for real life hookups I should say not all of them want I mean probably to some extent a dating thing too. Um, but the thing I found the most interesting is it shows you you can find the the areas where guys where gay men go to Cruise. Which is like where they'll drive and park in their car and kind of wait around and I've noticed these things when running sort of in the evening early evening before because you'll see these areas where these kind of suspicious sets of guys suspicious in the sense that like why are these guys all sitting around one to a car kind of waiting for something. Um.
[04:22] Keith: Ok.
[04:34] Mike: And this confirmed there are 2 parks near my house that in fact, are the parking. Lots of them are cruising sites so that was interesting to me and and you might find the same you can kind of look and find like various spots and and kind of know what's up and that way you know if you're not a gay man hey you know just you know.
[04:41] Keith: Huh.
[04:44] Keith: Well.
[04:51] Mike: Live and let live right? Just just chill out and and and leave them alone.
[04:52] Keith: I live one two 3 I live like 5 blocks from the Castro which is probably the most iconic gay neighborhood maybe in the world. So I I just sent you a screenshot and yeah, there's a cluster of I don't know.
[05:02] Mike: Her.
[05:08] Mike: Um I see it dick Cock I Also noticed that the cocks on this thing are all big. Um I know I don't know if they're real I don't know what the culture is around that. Um.
[05:12] Keith: Dozens. Yeah, lots of lots of people in the Castro.
[05:23] Mike: But I was just surprised I mean there were There's just a lot of guys with like seven plus inch cocks on this thing.
[05:27] Keith: Well I think they probably don't feature their cock and their profile on this. It's remarkable. Yes I can see that.
[05:35] Mike: A lot of them feature their cock though. So not all it's interesting. It's just another world like a culture that I don't have much exposure to except for seeing these folks in parking. Lots kind of hanging around I learned that um and one of the parking lots. There's a a hill next to the parking lot.
[05:41] Keith: Yeah.
[05:51] Mike: Kind of that runs the length of the park with a train tracks on the top of it and it turns out and I didn't know this you can kind of go up and over the train tracks and there's kind of a gully over there and that's where they I guess have sex I didn't know I didn't know where the sex actually happened and I've always sort of wondered if I'd like have the experience of just encountering someone in the middle of the act.
[06:02] Keith: Huh.
[06:10] Mike: While running or whatever. Um, yeah, see.
[06:12] Keith: What does this mean this person says into being spit roasted groups anonymous please have a face pick I'm on prep I have Hsv so when if they say they're on prep does that mean they have h I v.
[06:18] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
[06:29] Mike: No, ah usually they'll get so I This is another thing I Actually I think this is good for society I mean you know if you were like ah some sort of conservative. You'd say oh people shouldn't maybe talk about this stuff I actually notice that there are guys on here that you know admit they they they inform that they have that their H I B positive I Think that's good thing.
[06:44] Keith: And.
[06:47] Mike: Generally like there seems to be a culture of people being undetectable which hopefully they're they're telling the truth about that because then there's very little chance of spread maybe 0 prep is somebody who doesn't have it and doesn't want to get it right? So you take this medicine I think use a shot you can take every month or every week or something people should of course do their own research.
[07:01] Keith: You can't you can't take it to lower how much how likely you are to transmit it? Okay, let's say.
[07:05] Mike: Yeah.
[07:10] Mike: That's not what prep is prep is for the person who is negative who doesn't want to get it ah becoming undetectable is somebody who's taking the various drugs to they they have it but they're sort of making it undetectable so they shouldn't be able to pass it. So So honestly like this is a good sign like these seem to be people that are taking this seriously now that said. I saw ah a few different advertisements where the guys were like look I never use Condoms you know I want as much come around me as possible just semen everywhere I saw that a fair bit. So Obviously there's a kind of a 2 double edge sword there.
[07:33] Keith: Button.
[07:40] Keith: Yeah, yeah, all of these guys list their penis length and then whether or not it's cut huh six inch cut seven inch cut seven and a half inch cut those are just the first 3 I moused over this guy says he's gay. Nope.
[07:49] Mike: Um.
[07:55] Mike: Yeah, but and none of them are like 4 he says he's gay.
[08:00] Keith: So shit sherlock. Okay, if you have HIV and you have sex with someone else who has h I v can you get like worse h I v like ah my understanding is one of the reasons why it's been so hard to come up with an h iv vaccine is because the.
[08:19] Keith: It's not the like H I V virus itself but it's like the carrier mutates very quickly and ah you know it's not like measles where it mutates very slowly. You can get a vaccine when you're a child and then you have immunity the rest of your life. It's something closer to the flu where it like mutates very quickly. But.
[08:39] Keith: Could you get different strains of HIV and and then therefore you know I have like a yeah like if you have HIV and then if you have h iv you have sex with someone else who has a different strain of h I v can your situation be worsened.
[08:54] Mike: I don't know the answer to that I wonder if science even really can answer that question I mean in theory it seems likely the answer would be yes I mean you can. There's nothing preventing you from having 2 different viruses or similar viruses at the same time. Sure.
[09:03] Keith: Right? You can get you can get 2 different kinds of the flu at the same time and that's probably bad. Yeah, right right.
[09:11] Mike: People wouldn't necessarily know if they did though because the symptoms would be kind of similar and most of the symptoms are your immune reaction. So.
[09:17] Keith: Yeah, but in in like population wide studies. You'd you'd see that like the rate the rate of like complications like getting really sick or hospitalized or dying is higher if you have you know say 3 versions 3 versions of the flu at the same time you probably wouldn't be able to know it. But yeah, um.
[09:28] Mike: Um, sure. Yeah anyway, so I thought people be interested to see this. Ah yeah, yeah, and there's a I mean for example for me, there's There's some odd ones there are people right on my street.
[09:36] Keith: Huh sniffies.comsniffies.com yeah this is interesting.
[09:46] Mike: And there are people in and ah, but yeah, these cruising spots that are parks like for example, a parking lot right near my house. This guy was looking to bottom two two hours ago here's someone 2 hours ago looking for a bottom so that's that probably turned out well right? Ah someone 4 hours ago said.
[09:55] Keith: M.
[10:04] Mike: Asked if anyone needed some head some bombhead and ass another person looking for bottoms and this person says go to the women's bathroom and squeeze through the gate. It's a new spot and it's always action going on. So.
[10:05] Keith: Yeah, okay.
[10:17] Keith: I mean this is just unbelievable I've said this before ah it would be nice to be gay like I could just fire up this app and within I don't know 5 blocks of me. There's one ah hundred plus men looking for sex right now. Again I live you know near 1 of the gayest places in the world but ah like just imagine if this existed for for heterosexual people and like I could just mouse over a wealth it could they don't want it. There's no demand.
[10:43] Mike: It does for women right? I mean this is a thing This is a concrete This is a concrete way in which gay men's lives really are pretty different from straight men's society likes to say hey everybody's the same or.
[10:51] Keith: For for such a product for women.
[10:56] Keith: Yeah.
[11:01] Mike: Equal which is different but but they want to imply that everybody's life is kind of equivalent and but this is a concrete way in which it's pretty different and and this is a scene that I think most people don't have most heterosexual people don't necessarily even know about they don't know this is going on.
[11:06] Keith: Um, yeah.
[11:16] Keith: Right? right? Yeah I had some insight into this because I have a number of gay friends some of whom are pretty promiscuous and you know.
[11:19] Mike: But not not not to judge it either way, It's just to say they don't know what's going on. Um, it's It's kind of like a red light district or something.
[11:32] Keith: Like I've had a situation where I'm like hanging out with them and then they just like disappear for an hour and then they like reemerge and I'm like where were you and they're like oh grinder. It's like oh huh.
[11:40] Mike: Any more detail on that I mean do they go like is this at an apartment or do they actually just go behind the dumpster and get a blow or.
[11:46] Keith: No I think it's a little bit more I think they go to an apartment. Yeah.
[11:51] Mike: Okay, okay, that's interesting so they can just be out about with their friends and whatever like hey I got to go get blown.
[11:57] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, both of those 2 guys are fairly good looking and so maybe there's some privilege from that but generally I think it's just a lot easier.
[12:11] Mike: Yeah, in an hour That's a decently long blowjob or maybe he was doing something else. Yeah, um, okay so I got another one So one of the things that ah I've done to build up our.
[12:17] Keith: Right? Um, all right now. What.
[12:27] Mike: My whatever subreddit is to post things on and Nsf W 4 one 1 which is a subreddit dedicated to basically people asking um for different types of porn and it occurred to me that I mean you notice I noticed continuously on this subreddit people can go look. That there are things that people ask for? I mean there are things that people ask for that I think are kind of normal like today I see sexiest outfits in porn. Okay, you know, silly silly and nsfw subreddits. Okay, this is a pretty normal you know, even somebody somebody's looking for redneck women. Okay, so they're they're looking for a subreddit for that. Okay, but but how about this one.
[12:58] Keith: That's a weird kink but all right.
[13:00] Mike: Girls who laugh at /mock/teasguyswhenthey come all right? does that sound like a thing that you would want to.
[13:06] Keith: Um.
[13:10] Keith: Now I know humiliation porn is a ah category I don't often or ever click on it. But that one doesn't surprise me that much just because I've seen similar in the past.
[13:23] Mike: Okay, subs videos gifts with girls being distracted by vibrators while performing tasks. What's the. But so I mean I want to stipulate here that with yeah, there's a lot of them like this. There are things that either betray a misunderstanding men have in my opinion about women's lives like.
[13:33] Keith: Distracted by.
[13:39] Keith: Here.
[13:41] Mike: This is not a thing that would ever happen or they just I'm not sure what guys are looking for here. They want a scenario that's impossible I mean it's not Impossible. You could take say to a woman hey I want you to perform daily tasks and I'm going to bother you with this vibrator while you do it. But it's not going to be I assume that the idea here is that the woman's supposed to be acting like it's. Pleasant for her and that she's enjoying it.
[14:02] Keith: Yeah, ah I'm going to reveal something here. So this is a something like that is a fairly common trope in Hentai porn. So the you know japanese animated porn like somebody but like get gifted or like somehow.
[14:04] Mike: Oh. Go on.
[14:20] Keith: Ah, vibrator will be like imposed upon them and and it'll be in their apartment or their house their house or something and then there'll be a few scenes where like they can't stop thinking about it and wondering about what it would be like to try it I think there's like maybe in Japanese culture. There's some sort of like shame around using vibrators and. The playing around with that theme in hand type porn is I don't know that's something I've seen a few times but this guy or whoever requested that is maybe looking for that in real life I don't know it's not his request is not clear enough.
[14:54] Mike: I assume it's all men I mean I know people would argue about whether it's all men and in fact let me just bring this up now because it's another little thing I have so pornhub has has come out with their 2023 year in review people can find it on pornhub.com. Um, the number two growth ah in popularity area for age 18 through 24 was Hentai number one was cause play porn does that surprise you.
[15:24] Keith: Cosplay oh that cosplay was number 1 Ah, that's probably related to hentai.
[15:29] Mike: It was the number one growth. So it grew one hundred and forty six percent in the last year um
[15:37] Mike: Okay, you think they're sort of the same. So.
[15:39] Keith: Well gamer culture and anime culture are are sort of inner interwined. So I speculate there's something the common theme there.
[15:44] Mike: Okay. Okay, what do you think the biggest growth in the age 25 to 34 was like generally can you guess I don't think you can guess you mean just to tell you.
[15:55] Keith: Man.
[16:01] Keith: Ah, Milf Oh no.
[16:05] Mike: Um, muscular men. What's going on there. You said that must be either women using it or gay I assume number 2 was tattooed women. What do you think about that.
[16:13] Keith: Yeah.
[16:20] Keith: Tattooed women you must hate that you you strongly dislike tattooed women.
[16:23] Mike: Um I don't it's not my favorite in my generation the one that grew the most was scissoring. It's hard to believe some of the data they they they they suggest is a little odd like for example I think they're saying that 35% of the users are women which I okay. That is wrong that is false 35% of the users of part porn number are not women. Yes.
[16:42] Keith: 30 with with pornhub claims that okay, let's try to imagine a scenario where that's true like what data certainly not like time spent on site or something like maybe it's just like clicks. That touch porn hub once in the year or something.
[17:07] Mike: They call it viewers so that for example, they say in the in ah in the philippines 58% of the viewers were female which is up 5% since last year so viewers I assume just means percent. You know you take all the people who viewed and you demographically split them.
[17:23] Keith: Yeah, but if you okay, but if you took like hits over the entire year like I I go to porn hub almost every day right? So I would I would be responsible for say 365 ah visits. But.
[17:23] Mike: Not not minutes.
[17:31] Mike: Good for you.
[17:38] Mike: I Have to assume they they.
[17:40] Keith: I would only I would only count like I only count as a man once for the year right? And so if you count that way. Maybe you get to a situation where like yeah like men just are there way way way way way way way more. But if you count like whether they visited once in a year is the metric that maybe that's 30
[17:44] Mike: Um, correct.
[17:58] Mike: I Think that's a that's a very astute point that it's not probably Ah, it's probably not representative like that like in other words, they're purposely not breaking it down my minutes viewed because they know yes.
[17:59] Keith: And women.
[18:08] Keith: Yeah, they're being disingenuous.
[18:13] Mike: I also was thinking that I mean when you do these demographic things with websites often the most common gender is don't know because usually you don't have data on this probably not although I mean I can tell you no I don't um the the top 3 categories for men.
[18:19] Keith: Right? They don't know my sex. Ah do you have you don't have a you don't have a porn hub account. Do you I check.
[18:32] Mike: For people you know where they think it's a man is japanese mature and anal top 3 for women lesbian japanese and threesome. So I see one one common when they're I don't know.
[18:41] Keith: Why japanese versus asian like is there's some sort of like I think the majority of asian porn is either. Ah well I don't know about the majority. There's there's there is more japanese porn than. Say chinese porn. Ah it is maybe producing porn in China is illegal even I'm not sure.
[19:07] Mike: Ah, oh there's Vietnam Thailand I mean there's all the other but maybe yeah, maybe this morets conservative culture is where it's.
[19:12] Keith: They might be illegal in all those places in Japan there is some law about censoring that's that's the thing that I like I find japanese born sort of tiresome because so many of them are censored. You know they have like they blur out the genitalia that's.
[19:27] Mike: Right? Well people look for it. They call that type of porn job. Do you know why? they call it that JAV none no idea.
[19:30] Keith: Like now do you? Yeah yeah, if you if you googled JV there's like a bunch of sites just dedicated to japanese pon.
[19:44] Mike: Okay, um, yeah I mean they have some data for for the sniffies crowd for for for for gay actually the most viewed gay category category was straight guys. So it's I Guess ah people always think the grass is greener. Yeah.
[19:57] Keith: Ah, there's some fantasy play there? Yeah um, what percentage of women. Do you think in orgasm from scissoring.
[20:05] Mike: With a man with anybody with you mean like tribbing with another woman or just scissoring generally with someone else I think.
[20:09] Keith: Like I guess tribbing with another woman I think look I think that women can for example, you know if they're like grinding on my leg or something they they could potentially orgasm but I feel like scissoring is even a more difficult.
[20:23] Mike: Yes.
[20:28] Keith: Thing than that because you know you're you're sideways or whatever. Um, it's It's harder to find like a hard surface to grind upon.
[20:36] Mike: Yeah, my intuition is that most women can orgasm from that but it would be difficult for them to orgasm it and simultaneously give the other person pleasure so they would have to do something that would be kind of analogous to grinding on someone's leg.
[20:51] Keith: Right? they' have to be paying attention to their own I mean maybe if they're mutually paying attention to their own. They could find some I don't know. Yeah, if I'd but suspect. Not.
[21:01] Mike: Okay, let me give you let me give you 1 more and Nsf W 4 1 1 topic because I thought this one was interesting. This person requested videos where women are restrained and made to come and then after they come are super sensitive and they are forced to have more and more and more orgasms.
[21:06] Keith: Okay.
[21:19] Keith: Um.
[21:20] Mike: That that I actually think that never happens in the real world.
[21:25] Keith: Ah I mean that is another super common trope in hentai porn. It's almost like everything is hentai or like a theme and Hentai that they want to see in real life. But yeah, like in hentai.
[21:30] Mike: Interesting.
[21:40] Keith: Yeah, there's all with like the woman is often being coerced and then you know she doesn't want to be so turned on but she is and then she orgasms and then you know miraculously He's still hard and so you know they go again and again and again. Um.
[21:55] Mike: Um, is this so is this it does do you think that if a woman was trying to understand. Let's say a woman really wanted to do a study of what men actually want you know? So so it's like look you know she's a woman she doesn't totally understand male male psychology around this and she says look I just want to. Be what they want me. Maybe maybe she wants to be a sex worker. Do you think that Hentai actually would be a decent guide to that because it's just showing you this sort of crazy fantasy life of guys.
[22:14] Keith: Um I don't know I find anti porn to be a little bit tiresome because it's always like the same 4 or 5 themes and they're different. It's like different than like what.
[22:25] Mike: Okay.
[22:31] Keith: American Sexual cultural themes are or like at least what I want like it's not totally orthogonal like I I can I like some of it I like some of the the themes. But yeah I'm not sure it might be good for a Japanese woman. Ah, interested in Japanese men to get a lot of exposure to that.
[22:52] Mike: But don't you think jip on this kind of topic Japan's usually just ahead of the west or of the United States in particular like I mean they they like Nintendo first and anime and.
[22:56] Keith: Might they be they could be. They could be.
[23:07] Keith: Ah, ah yeah.
[23:11] Mike: Um I don't know where they get the trends from but they seem to originate a lot of stuff so I'm just imagining that the this might sort of guide you to understanding what the Ai sex devices of the future how they will operate. Um.
[23:15] Keith: Um, yeah, that's true.
[23:24] Keith: Yeah I mean I guess my answer is yes and I and I have investigated it because I think it is sort of intellectually interesting also often arousing so it's so it's a twofer in that sense. But yeah like I think people should basically. Investigate things that large groups of people find interesting. So in that sense? Yes, but for the average you know 23 year old like they're not going to spend the time.
[23:51] Mike: Okay, and and and there's something but there's another kind of deeper thing here which is that you have these people requesting porn. That's just totally Unrealistic. So I don't know whether that's they whether they self-consciously understand that they're looking for a fantasy which you know okay fine or if they're thinking oh look This is. This is the real deal. What I'm looking for is this woman who's got vibrators attached to her body and it's just so annoying how'm in the Orgasm. She's having and she's she's just she just can't stop coming all the time like she wants to she wants to go do the laundry or whatever but which wants to go to be an accountant, whatever. Job. The woman has you know.
[24:13] Keith: Yeah, right.
[24:22] Keith: Right? Yeah, but she's overcome by her sexual needs and desires. Yeah I mean it's not a realistic depiction of the female experience.
[24:29] Mike: Right? right now.
[24:35] Mike: I Don't think so I don't think so but if that's what men want then maybe yeah, maybe that's where you're where you wind up Anyway, those are the those are the items I had for us.
[24:44] Keith: Right? All right? if I was I was thought provoking stuff Mike Um, all right I wanted to do this plastic surgery thing because I've been thinking about plastic surgery not for myself but just generally all right.
[24:53] Mike: Um, thanks.
[25:02] Mike: Wait Why are you thinking about plastic surgery generally.
[25:02] Keith: Don't this person this was on um the sugar lifestyle form separatedit because I think women get more plastic surgery than I previously thought.
[25:10] Mike: Who.
[25:16] Mike: Um, what what has changed your what what has challenged your prior on this. What happened.
[25:20] Keith: Um, ah, women being more open talking about getting procedures like Botox or lip injections.
[25:26] Mike: So you've found there's there's some change is this in person on the internet. How are you are you having these conversations in person. Okay, both okay and so you feel like people women have in the last some number of years become more open. Okay.
[25:34] Keith: Ah, both.
[25:42] Keith: Yes, and I'm not sure if they're getting it more or if they've just become more open talking about it. Um, so ah yeah, we could talk about that after I read this this person's post but well all right? Let me just read it. Why don't more sugar daddies get plastic surgery.
[25:45] Mike: Got it? Okay, okay.
[25:54] Mike: Yes.
[26:00] Keith: You guys have so much disposable income but you would sooner buy a pricey sports car or offer money to attract a younger woman possibly even pay for her to get procedures rather than improving the source of your insecurities and troubles with women in the form of your own features I'm not that vain but we all know that some sugar daddies out there are less than blessed in the looks department. These guys can't attract the women they are looking for without an allowance that means giving them money of course I don't mean all older men some of you guys are super attractive but there is a certain subset of men who look for a sugar baby because they have a lot of trouble getting a girl. Otherwise this is really just food for thought spurred by some experiences with sugar daddies that are really nice, but just so unkissable. Wish it wasn't that way but the truth is that we can't help what we find attractive started a relationship at 1 point with a guy who was so brilliant and so fun to talk to but at the end of the day couldn't tolerate the excessive weight body hair and balding but knowing what he makes he could get a little work done with a week's pay and improve his appearance dramatically in all honesty I would have stuck with him if I felt attracted to him. So machismo or pride that holds these guys back from pursuing cosmetic works obviously no one on earth needs cosmetic procedures. But if you are already dropping lots of money on a woman to get her to hang out with you doesn't it seem logical to drop some money on yourself and simplify the process a little bit so I have some thoughts here mostly I think she's very confused. Um.
[26:59] Mike: Food.
[27:16] Keith: But why don't you respond first.
[27:18] Mike: Well sorry I was asking chat Gpt to tell me what percentage of american women have had botox and breast implants and it's doing some research on bing which is always. It's not not very reassuring. It's like they've decided to connect this genius to some kind of retarded system.
[27:24] Keith: Um, yeah.
[27:38] Mike: They're trying to average out the iqs anyway. Ah for the for the listeners I'd write rather it was using Google or maybe some newfangled search engine. Not bing which is the one everyone uses for porn anyway. Ah the I don't think I think that in almost all cases a man can through a reasonable regimen of.
[27:43] Keith: Right.
[27:56] Mike: Eating healthy some aerobic exercise and some good muscle exercise some good you know, weightlifting make himself look reasonable in almost all cases Sure could there be a guy where like there's some I don't know I mean some basic procedure that could be performed I'm I'm particularly thinking about maybe a guy with like a lot of back hair.
[28:13] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[28:15] Mike: Or something some real obvious thing sure. But in most cases, a guy. It's It's yeah if you you can take a pretty ugly guy and muscle him up and get him fit and he'll look pretty good. That's sort of my take.
[28:25] Keith: Yeah, well. Okay, first of all I don't think women are as like visually driven as men are and so yeah, like even at baseline it doesn't matter as much and then to the extent it does matter. Yeah, like just don't be massively overweight.
[28:31] Mike: Um, well that too.
[28:45] Keith: And you know know how to groom yourself like don't have nose hairs and ear hairs pouring out and you know like just.
[28:49] Mike: So let me make a let me make a comment on that first one though first I agree with you that to to first order women are not as they yeah they don't care as much and and they kind of have to not care as much because men are I think objectively in almost all cases less attractive than women unless you have like a super fit.
[29:06] Keith: Yeah, right? yes.
[29:07] Mike: Olympic swimmer or something and even then like it depends on the attractiveness of the woman. It's easy for a woman to still be more attractive in any event. Um the the thing that I have noticed women to comment on ah is well not in person but in sort of online posts and Tiktok videos and stuff is. Not wanting to be embarrassed publicly being with the guy right? So while they might not care I'm thinking in particular this one ah video I watch where a woman who's a sugar baby was saying like yeah she just didn't like going to a bar club restaurant. Whatever with this guy that just looked bad because it's just she's ashamed of herself. Yes.
[29:27] Keith: Yeah.
[29:40] Keith: Yeah, it's embarrassing for her. Yeah.
[29:45] Mike: And that does that matters a lot it matters to guys too right? You wouldn't want to go into a restaurant with a yeah, you'd rather go in with an attractive woman right.
[29:55] Keith: Yeah, yeah I I Do think there's a large number of men especially men who are in their 50 s and sixty s as a lot of sugar daddies are that just don't have a clue how to. Dress and present themselves and I just I don't know if I agree with her thesis which is that if they did dress and present themselves better ah that they would be able to attract materially more more women I Mean. Ah.
[30:13] Mike: Um, sure.
[30:31] Keith: Look. There's at the extreme ends I think that's true, but mostly the woman is choosing to date a much much much older and implicitly less attractive man because of the Quid pro quo like it's the money that she's interested in. Not his looks and he could improve his looks and maybe be able to get away with paying a little bit less money. But I doubt it.
[30:52] Mike: I think though if you took 2 men who looked similarly and both had like a lot of money and one had superficially like the clothes was wearing like a rolex or whatever so too this set of people would look. Like he had a lot of money and the other one just sort of was dressed down I suspect that most sugar babies would pick the first guy just because they again they want to show that status. They don't want to. They don't be status down twice with his age and then status down because he's dressed like a you know someone who works at a gas station.
[31:24] Keith: Yeah, yeah, maybe you're right I think it's an imperfect market though. So like if you come forward and make it clear that you are going to pay and that you're like a reasonable safe person like I think you've already set yourself. So far ahead of most wannabe sugar daddies.
[31:43] Mike: Yeah, that's yeah, that's not the the the typical problem that I see sugar babies or perspective sugar babies having is not this. It's guys behaving Bizarrely I mean guys with no money guys trying to get things for free having sex with you then then fleeing.
[31:56] Keith: Right? right? right? pump and dump right? right? Ah yeah I think this is like a I think this is like a fourth order concern.
[32:02] Mike: Like stuff like that. Yes, um, so that yeah, it's I don't so but but but there is a lot of him. Well, but there is a lot of signaling right? I mean if you go into ah if you. Okay, if you're going on a first date. What you wear matters right.
[32:20] Keith: Yes.
[32:22] Mike: If you signal that badly you know that you're going to make it the day won't go as well because the woman will be bummed out right.
[32:29] Keith: Yeah again I think men should expense some effort on like dressing Well and ideally not being massively overweight. Um, but I don't think getting like a facelift for example, is going to materially change.
[32:38] Mike: Um, right.
[32:46] Keith: You know your prospects.
[32:47] Mike: That's probably right? Although I mean you know, ah there there are a significant number of male actors in Hollywood who've had surgery done.
[32:56] Keith: Yeah I think women are generally confused about plastic surgery like they think that getting Botox and face lifts and lip injections and Brazilian Buttlifts and ah breast Augmentation. Just massively changes the way that they're like presenting in the world. Some of those things I mean I think I think breast implants can really change the experience for a woman. Um, if they were if they were relatively flat before and then.
[33:25] Mike: Couldn't you I mean but do you? Okay, if you had a woman. Okay I'm sure this experiment is has been tried and I think the result should be fairly obvious if you had a woman who went out two separate weeks so day of the week doesn't apply and one week she's allowed to wear makeup and the other week. She's not. Couldn't we agree that on the week she wore makeup if she did it well she would perform better so isn't this just an extension of that in other words making some making yourself look better. Ah on facially say.
[33:47] Keith: Yes.
[33:59] Mike: Which is mostly most of what makeup is does seem to matter right? So some kind of I mean obviously an extreme plastic surgery I'm going to agree with you because if it's obvious but I just suspect Well I mean this goes along with what you said a lot of women have had plastic surgery and you don't know which ones haven't haven't.
[34:06] Keith: Yeah, keep it.
[34:14] Keith: Oh that is not true though I yeah used to argue with ah Alyssa about this. Ah I think I know the vast majority who have had like I think I can tell when people have had plastic surgery. Um I agree.
[34:17] Mike: Okay.
[34:30] Keith: The ones who I can't tell and who do actually look better as a result of this invisible plastic surgery. Obviously that was a good decision on their part but I don't think that's I think the vast majority basically get like really confused like.
[34:42] Mike: Um, wasn't yeah.
[34:47] Keith: Like basically every Eastern European woman has these like huge duck lips and it's because there's like this meme there that like that's a good idea and a lot of them are getting it through fiveir surgery there are there are ah chapsticks. You can get that like actually irritate your lips on purpose to like.
[34:52] Mike: Ah.
[35:06] Keith: Make them swell a little bit. Um.
[35:07] Mike: Are you sure they're not doing that because it feels better when they're sucking a cock but for the guy.
[35:13] Keith: No I don't know I suspect they're doing it because they it makes them feel better like as with almost everything with women the way they're like dressing and presenting is for themselves and for their friends more so than it is for men. But.
[35:30] Mike: Do you think I mean how much okay so I acknowledge that but do you think if there was some alteration of woman. Let's let's say that it became common knowledge that getting lip injections made the guy's orgasm 20% stronger whatever that means maybe last 20% longer so you get you know instead of.
[35:31] Keith: Um.
[35:48] Keith: Whatever, Okay, yeah.
[35:49] Mike: And seconds you get 1.2 times n seconds. Do you think women just would not care about that at all or would they be like oh yeah I I give my man that extra 3 seconds of orgasm.
[35:59] Keith: Um, it's I mean it's hard to tease out because like immediately ah women who didn't have it would be thought of as like selfish or something like it's hard to tease out like how the culture would like warp around that reality.
[36:09] Mike: So how come all women don't have certain I mean well to some extent I think all okay, there are certain plastic surgeries that I think a large large proportion of people have there are ones involving your teeth nose Jobs These are.
[36:27] Keith: Yeah, orthodonture. Yeah yeah, ah.
[36:29] Mike: Yeah, and nose jobs where somebody has like kind of a pointy nose or a big nose That's a pretty common one and I suspect that those are ones where some large proportion of women get them. Ah I will tell you that chat gbt ah helped by bing. Told me that four four percent of american women have undergone elective cosmetic surgery including breast implants. So so one out of 25 which is not that many I think you're thinking it's significantly higher.
[36:53] Keith: I don't yeah I don't I think that number is wrong. Does it include botox.
[36:56] Mike: What do you think it is I asked it about Botox It said it. The data is not readily available not surprising because it's using bing. So no, that does not account that does not count Botox that is. Elective Cosmetic surgery which Botox would be injections right.
[37:16] Keith: Yeah, yeah, okay, the Pew Research Center says just 4% of americans have ever had and in two thousand and twenty two point five million people ages 40 to 54 received botox.
[37:36] Mike: It's not that many and some of them are men too. Yeah.
[37:39] Keith: Yeah, but that's just ages 40 to 54 anyway yeah I don't know I'm not sure I ah yes.
[37:45] Mike: But you've noticed you've noticed more honesty generally about this topic and it's specifically around I would would you say it's generally around surgery or generally on things like Botox and lip injections that kind of wear off over time or both.
[38:02] Keith: I just think that a cosmetic and like physical modifications to your body are are far less taboo than they were even ten years ago like you see more piercings you see more tattoos people are getting elective cosmetic procedures done more.
[38:12] Mike: Um, who.
[38:21] Keith: And um I don't mind piercing in tattoos. But I really don't like cosmetic surgery it it. It bothers me actually I don't know why? um.
[38:33] Mike: Um, there isn't a single one that you would appreciate like a nose job.
[38:39] Keith: Ah I am conceptually fine with plastic surgery that improves the way you look and I can't tell that it has been done but I think I can always fucking tell Um, like.
[38:50] Mike: Um I see.
[38:56] Keith: Especially like I'm 43 so like women between like thirty five and forty five just go insane on botox um, and like I can tell it's I'm yeah, it's just their skin.
[39:05] Mike: What what are the giveaways they they they can't they can't show facial expressions.
[39:14] Keith: On their face looks too smooth compared to like the skin on the rest of their body. Um, and yeah, it's like caught in a way that it that is unnatural arms hands necks. No no, no no.
[39:22] Mike: What's the what is that way when you say that when you say the rest of the body. What is the is the is are you looking at talking about the Vulva not vulva just hands is the one I was thinking of I see. Okay. Well they maybe they'll start getting out of their hands too. If So you're saying if they got Botox everywhere. It might not bother you because then it would be undetectable.
[39:45] Keith: No I think I'm also bothered by the vanity. But maybe that's yeah I Realize there's some inconsistency here or where like modest amounts of makeup.
[39:52] Mike: But it doesn't bother you if they've had if they've been waxed for hair.
[40:01] Mike: I Think that the waxing thing is understandable from the perspective of you view it as having a functionality you like it concretely improves your sexual experience right.
[40:03] Keith: Or whatnot.
[40:13] Keith: Yeah I don't know what it is with plastic surgery. There's something around like betraying nature or something. Um, there's something around like the vanity implied by it. Um.
[40:21] Mike: Ah huh.
[40:27] Keith: So many plastic surgeries make you like physically less functional like getting breast augmentation makes it so that like exercise is a pain in the ass Um Botox Botox makes it so that your face is you know, less expressive. Um.
[40:36] Mike: Um, but isn't that part of the attraction of women.
[40:42] Mike: Okay.
[40:46] Keith: Yeah, and like making that trade just doesn't seem but I mean it is unfair right? like obviously women are prized for the way they look so if there is something they can do to like 1 up or 3 up that I understand the desire there and like our culture definitely pressures them toward it so you know i'm. Not saying. It's fair I'm just saying how I feel. Yeah we should move on. Um, this person says I'm going to lose my virginity to a sex worker this week any advice before that 23 year old male here after years of loneliness sexual repression I'm born in a conservative country.
[41:07] Mike: Sure, Okay, that makes sense.
[41:24] Keith: And building up sex in my mind is the highest reward known to man. He's not wrong. I finally decided to go with a sex worker to lose my virginity any advice before I proceed regarding the sex or anything else. Sex work is legal in the country I am staying right now. So that's not the problem I just want to stop thinking about sex all the time. As soon as I wake up and get it done with. Masturbating 3 to 4 times a day just thinking about sex. Um I don't think he's going to It's not like he's going to have sex and then like suddenly stop thinking about sex. Unfortunately.
[41:55] Mike: Yeah I mean there's obviously some core problem here. That's making it so he's unable to find sex any other way. Ah I mean I hear the conservative country thing though he must have he must now be in a country where it's less conservative given that sex work is legal. Yeah, um, and so there's some I'm not sure this will really help.
[42:07] Keith: That's what he says? yeah.
[42:13] Mike: And it will I have a I think that sex work should be at least some of it should be legal. So it's not that I think it should be taboo taboo or unavailable. But at the same time It's like difficult for me to opine on things like this because it's a little gross to me. Did you know by the way I ah. I think I mentioned some weeks ago that there's a ticktoker in Australia who's a sex worker. She's ah, an escort and she said that fifty five zero percent of men want to eat her out. Want to give her oral during sessions. What.
[42:35] Keith: Aha Oh yeah, yeah.
[42:47] Keith: Um, yeah, you bring this up sometimes and and you can't understand yeah that just makes sense to me I find it. Ah I find it hot to go down on a woman I'm not.
[42:51] Mike: Ah, yeah I can't.
[42:54] Mike: Go On. Um, okay, but.
[43:02] Keith: Sure I would want to go down on a prostitute. Um, but like I would definitely feel the compulsion and then I could like intellectualize why that's maybe a bad idea but I would if I was attracted to them I would definitely feel the compulsion.
[43:17] Mike: Um, even but in this case, one of the things she said is that she never gets anything out of it I Also saw there's There's a subreddit called like escorts or sex sex workers.
[43:29] Keith: Presumably look I'm not interested in sex with the prostitute for like these exact reasons like I don't think it's compelling to have sex with someone who doesn't want to be having sex with me so like anything that's even like mildly coercive.
[43:33] Mike: Yeah.
[43:42] Keith: I avoid which is why I also I often end up going on like a zillion dates before I have sex with someone because I want to be sure that they aren't feeling pressured toward it. Ah, but if I was in a situation where I was having sex with a prostitute for some reason. Um. I would I would probably have somehow convinced myself that they want to be there for a reason other than the money. Um.
[44:07] Mike: But doesn't the prostitute part sort of preclude wanting to interact with their body in that way I don't know that's the part that confuses me.
[44:16] Keith: Yeah, again, like I would like intellectually I think I would be like look like I shouldn't go down on this person because there could be some various disease risk or like there could be other semen ah floating around.
[44:25] Mike: Yeah.
[44:33] Keith: And so I I wouldn't want to do that. But yeah I would guess that like baseline like if you said like men you are with an attractive woman. Do you want to go down on them. Yeah I would expect like 80 or 90% to say yes and then. Yeah, because they're a prostitute it drops to 50.
[44:52] Mike: Right? Okay, yeah I'm trying I'm trying to think of what the yeah there must I suspect. There's something wrong with my judgment here of because I mean from the woman's perspective. She'd probably say look like that's not she'd probably say something like look that's. If you're worried about the fact that I had sex with some other guy two days ago or whatever it could be 2 hours ago but let's just say two days to avoid that part of the problem or ah, she might say well that's not at all the grossest thing that's happened to my genitals since then at and a minimum. She's she' be like well I've used the bathroom repeatedly etc. So it's not.
[45:11] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[45:25] Keith: Right.
[45:28] Mike: So she might think like you're being completely irrational which is probably right actually.
[45:33] Keith: Yeah, that's true. But again, there's like being able to make an intellectual case in your mind about like what you should do and what's reasonable to do and then what you're feeling in the moment.
[45:38] Mike: Um, yeah.
[45:47] Mike: I suspect I suspect actually that it's pretty common in these types of situations for a guy not to be able to get aroused enough to completely eliminate the Disgust feeling that you would naturally have because he's not Actually. He's only somewhat attracted to the person unless well even if she's hyper physically attractive I mean it's just such a strange situation that it might be difficult to get in the mood and want to sort of interact with her body.
[46:08] Keith: Um, yeah, um, I'm mildly interested in trying to have sex with the prostitute just to see like how it made me feel but not enough to overcome the like disease concerns like it. If I could like find somebody who didn't want to have sex with me that I could be sure wasn't going to get me sick then I would I would be.
[46:37] Mike: What's the part of it because I mean some some activities you could do with somebody where there's 0 disease zero disease risk you might be able to plumb the depths of your emotional reaction without taking any risk right? Um, yeah I mean like you could say look I just want to beat off on your chest.
[46:45] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
[46:52] Keith: Right.
[46:54] Mike: And so then you would have the experience of doing this with a person who definitely doesn't want to be there although maybe she would you could you could have her come on the podcast afterward. She could be famous be like talk about how much semen you produced where you spewed it etc.
[46:57] Keith: Right? And then I could see.
[47:10] Keith: Right? She would be like oh it felt so good when it landed on my ribs. Um.
[47:18] Mike: That's ah you know when we yeah when there's a porn in most porn when they have missionary sexck the guy nuts on her stomach and I can understand why? yeah it's There's otherwise it's sort of as if nothing happens they can do the cream pie thing but like.
[47:23] Keith: Yeah I think they want they're trying to produce evidence.
[47:36] Mike: I Don't know maybe people suspect that they that wasn't actually semen I don't know um but the woman always doesn't just yeah I mean what's she supposed to do. It's not that interesting to her. It's less interesting and exciting for her when when the semen goes on her stomach I think so and it's kind of gross.
[47:49] Keith: Right? right? Yeah what? what? a waste of a load. Um.
[47:55] Mike: So as I always see that as kind of a bummer Well kind. No, it's just not like it's not. It's not if if if if when you're watching porn. You're sort of living out a fantasy of being that guy. It's not really what you I think most guys don't want to nut on people's stomachs.
[48:12] Keith: Um, you know back to the Hentai conversation. They almost always I mean they they're definitely not like animating like nutting on someone's stomach. That's just like not done. They'll show like.
[48:25] Mike: That's interesting.
[48:28] Keith: Vaguely anatomical drawings of like the you know the the penis inside the vagina ejaculating. Um I mean it's almost hard to explain. It's like a it's like a cross section.
[48:34] Mike: How like it's like an X-ray or something. Okay.
[48:45] Keith: And but you'll see the cock and then they'll be like this fleshy whatever around it. It's it's kind of weird I feel like I need to start sending you some of some of this hentai stuff I only I only jerk off with Hentai like I don't know couple times a month. Maybe.
[48:58] Mike: I've seen I.
[49:04] Mike: Yeah I've seen ones before where and this this kind of makes sense to me where ah I've seen ones where the penis appears to go into the uterus and I've seen ones where it's even further where it's basically just like it. It does something that seems like yeah it seems like it would just destroy the woman's body.
[49:04] Keith: Um.
[49:12] Keith: Yeah up in the guts.
[49:21] Mike: So I can sort of understand that intellectually like the guy wants it to be this extreme event whereas. It's not actually that extreme for her in reality this is sort of along that axis right? Yeah yeah, I'd be interested.
[49:24] Keith: Right? right? But no I Just think it's interesting that like yeah like the reason why they're coming on the stomach is just a camera trick like. Everybody wants it to be in the vagina.
[49:44] Mike: Yeah, so if there was some way if there was some if somebody pioneered a camera technique or something that would give guys certainty or I'm not sure that would but.
[49:52] Keith: Even if they're what you could put a camera in there but it would just you would just be dark. You could.
[49:58] Mike: Okay, we could put a light. There is a video on Pornhub that's like that with with ah with ah ah from the inside and it's I mean yeah, sure.
[50:07] Keith: Could you make something like an iud. Yeah you know Iud go through the cervix right? So you could you could You could also put in a camera there with a light. Um, let's let's go to y combinator with this one.
[50:14] Mike: Yes, It's not a bad idea. Yeah, it'd be sort of you know it would be like ah you know a lot of Uber drivers lyft drivers now have. And and just regular drivers have dash cams. It would be like that you'd sell women on having a dash cam for their vagina so they would have a recording of all their conquests.
[50:29] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[50:38] Keith: My understanding is that ah getting an iud put in is extremely painful. So it'd be a tough sell. Oh we would be part of the iud. Oh.
[50:45] Mike: Well I mean if they're going to do it anyway. Yeah, of course yeah would be ah, a recording iud there'd be little a little sim card inside somewhere there that would record it would store the data.
[50:57] Keith: Now I think you want a transmitter so that you can you can get the data in real time you could live stream. Yeah, all right? Well my only advice for this guy is tell the girl that ah it's not it.
[51:00] Mike: Okay, sure sure. Yeah, yeah.
[51:14] Keith: That it is his your first time so that she knows the prostitute. He doesn't need to pretend to be like some sort of casanova here.
[51:16] Mike: Sure Yeah, from what I've heard from various sources like that. No basically no guys are Casanos with prostitutes. All guys are like nervous.
[51:32] Keith: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, yeah I mean I wonder if prostitutes have the experience that everyone like sort of fantasizes about giving them which is like oh the sex is so amazing with this one John but you know gee. Start stating him or whatever because that have happened in in the history of prostitution. Maybe maybe if the man's rich.
[51:51] Mike: Probably rare probably ah yes, there probably have to be some external external factor and then there is that theory that ah really all that matters is like the woman's hormonal, hormonal cycle. So just be if.
[52:07] Keith: Um, she's ovulating.
[52:08] Mike: Ah, you know the idea that um, whatever it is. You know the idea that basically if you go into a bar the right thing to do is just to try to talk to every single woman because you're not tried because at there is some moment during the year when each one of those women would be interested in you.
[52:24] Keith: Right? right? right? Ah, that's depressing but probably right? Okay, this person says ladies with dry vaginas what Medicine have you found that helps you have sex without pain.
[52:24] Mike: And you're just trying to figure out which one is in that moment right? Then it's not. There's like real attraction doesn't exist.
[52:33] Mike: I know.
[52:41] Keith: So we were talking about dry Vaginas last episode or a few episodes ago Anyway, this person says I've been using Replens think of it like lotion for your vagina and it works a lot but not completely.
[52:45] Mike: Um.
[52:53] Keith: Any of y' allll tried any of those oral supplements for dryness I always see them at gas stations but have never tried one before I'm not sure if they would help vagina vaginal dryness or not anyway, what has helped you all and do you have any suggestions quick disclaimer I don't have stds I've been tested for everything. Issue is I was on Accutane twice and the second time messed with my body where everything is dry I stopped acutaine years ago, but every morning my eyes burn until I put eye drops in even though I'm in my early 20 s just saying this. So no one comments thinking I have an sti yeah I've heard that acutane. Really does dry you out I didn't know that it affected vaginas.
[53:28] Mike: There are also people who claim that Acutane can permanently alter your sex drive.
[53:35] Keith: Um, I know that it people get suicidal ideation with Acutane as well. That sounds.
[53:38] Mike: Okay, well, but but but that's that probably goes away once you stop taking it. But yeah.
[53:44] Keith: Yeah, I'm not sure it works for acne. Well for some people and so that's why it still exists even though it has pretty gnarly side effects. Um.
[53:51] Mike: Sure people might be surprised to learn that replens is ends with an s not a Z I figured it was a Z because sounds like some garbage product.
[54:00] Keith: Yeah, and that was a good vaginal moisturizers and lubricants. So I but let me read a few of the comments here just because they were interesting to me. It's not prescription medicine but I use probiotic supplement called soaking wet from bet vb health. Used to drink kombucha and take probiotic gummies but I found out those aren't actually the right probiotics for vaginas soaking wet has probiotics that are specifically for vaginas which in turn helped me with my dryness issues I've been taking it for three months now and never felt better down there. You're aware of these like facal transplants that. Some people are doing now and I well I'm wondering. Can you like get a ah they could use as they could you use? Whatever they're squirting and then transplant that.
[54:34] Mike: Not for this I mean this is this is clearly a no.
[54:44] Mike: Yeah, my strong prior on this would be that this is a placebo. This probiotic thing is not and you know I took the wrong probiotic. It's like no no, no you you just had like some dryness because of the season or something and then that would that would be my.
[55:01] Keith: Yes, that is also my base hypothesis here. This person says the absolute cleanest most hydrating elixor I found is this stuff called uber lube. It's like 3 ingredients that you can use on your face and hair to if you like little pricey but I'd never use anything else.
[55:03] Mike: I Guess yes.
[55:13] Mike: Um, he.
[55:20] Keith: Somebody says Estra Doyle Ointment I don't know what any of these things are something called for a stra. Yeah yes, you're right? Yes is a medication you use to manage and treat.
[55:23] Mike: E Stra It's Estra D All s T R The I O I O not O I All I think I have no idea what it is I've just seen that word before.
[55:36] Keith: Close menopausal symptoms and for women who have had hysterectomies.
[55:38] Mike: Is no so I forget is is this woman saying that she's dry all the time or just during sex.
[55:45] Keith: Um I think well why does it matter at any other time.
[55:51] Mike: I could be uncomfortable I mean maybe it's itchy scratchy Sure I mean if you yeah I mean you figure there's some motion down there when you walk or go about your day. So.
[55:54] Keith: You just rubbing too 2 slices of leather together.
[56:04] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean when I run I I sometimes use body glide. Maybe she could try that.
[56:09] Mike: I mean I'm imagining like yeah, what let's imagine that the area in your anus was just insanely dry or I mean you could simulate it be being dry by putting so like ah gluing some small pebbles to your anus I bet that would be uncomfortable.
[56:15] Keith: Yeah.
[56:24] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean I don't think my asshole is generally wet. There's I don't man I think it is should I check.
[56:25] Mike: You know, very small like sandpaper type stuff.
[56:32] Mike: I Think it is I think it's Moist. You can check after the show report back.
[56:46] Keith: Ah, yeah I mean what's what's you? What's your in there a little bit. You know it's It's moistish but on the outside. Ah I've I've read I've read.
[56:49] Mike: How do you know that way way way way. Let's back up here So you're certain you right? That's good.
[57:02] Keith: Um, So anyway, ok so this is drive vagita thing This could like I think this would kind of suck if you were a woman who reliably struggled with this because the last time we talked about this I think we both concluded that we hadn't much run into. Like we we run into women that like occasionally needed lube but it was it was rare and unusual and so this does seem like a thing that could be like if I had a partner who had this problem I think I would be kind of bummed.
[57:31] Mike: Um.
[57:37] Mike: Um, because you would assume it meant they weren't attracted to you.
[57:41] Keith: I think I could intellectually understand that it wasn't that but it it's still well. For starters that there's like a mechanical problem like every time you want have sex you have to get out the 7 different selves to ah. Before you could do it and and then and then yeah, there's an ego component.
[57:56] Mike: Right? Yeah, but I mean yeah, it's I mean I Guess that's why people look for treatments that do not involve just having to lubricate every time they view it as a more like system systemic problem.
[58:08] Keith: Um, what is God I Mean how did they? How did they their Progeny make it this far like that seems fairly maladaptive.
[58:18] Mike: I know it doesn't does see I always think it doesn't matter like I was I was taking the strong. But so I I was reading an article like yesterday about why women have breasts because human females are the only mammals only female mammals that have enlarged memories all the time.
[58:34] Keith: Wait is that true. What about like aren't there some monkeys that like the women have like those like weird the women but the females have those like sort of saggy.
[58:37] Mike: Yes, and they're not enlarged all the time.
[58:51] Keith: Okay, all right.
[58:52] Mike: That's what I read I mean I think that I think the idea is they go away after they the problem is they probably always have babies so that makes it kind of tricky. Ah so yeah, so one of the leading or maybe the leading theory is something around Oh well, you know humans because they're upright they don't they can't.
[58:58] Keith: Okay, yeah, that's true.
[59:10] Mike: In other in other primates. The Vulva turns colors or something to show that the woman is fertile but that's that kind of signal would not be visible because you're standing upright and so therefore there was some other signal needed but the problem I have with that is I So I think a woman I think if you had like.
[59:15] Keith: Okay.
[59:27] Mike: Some percent. Let's say to 10% of the population was women with no breasts I think they would all get impregnated too I don't think it would I don't think it would be selected for. Yeah so it's a little unclear to me so you could say oh well, the men would care for the babies of the woman who had breasts the other thing is in the.
[59:33] Keith: Yeah I think I agree.
[59:44] Mike: State of nature or the women would be pregnant almost all the time I mean or nursing right? They So so it's not I Actually think those theories are kind of bad because of that they don't I don't think they're right? Um, and so this is kind of like that. It's like well you'd say oh wouldn't vaginal dryness be selected against well yeah except guys don't care.
[59:45] Keith: Right.
[01:00:02] Keith: Um, right.
[01:00:03] Mike: Like the Guy'll just say well I have my own fluid I can produce and put in there for you So you know.
[01:00:05] Keith: Right? Yeah, that's that's probably right? Why wait did you say that some monkey species have a physical ah sign that they're fertile that.
[01:00:22] Mike: Yes, well I don't I don't know if they they might go into estrus or whatever like less frequently than every month
[01:00:23] Keith: Like it's that time of the month
[01:00:29] Keith: I Know cat don't cats do that thing where they like mow and when they're in heat.
[01:00:34] Mike: Yeah, they go into heat. Yes, yes, there's some sort of simp signal and and apparently in primates. There's a signal that actually can be seen on the buttock or genitals of the female. But.
[01:00:45] Keith: Ah, well that wouldn't be useful women would need something visible on their clothed body.
[01:00:52] Mike: Well, you're assuming that they would be wearing clothes in like a prehistoric state like in some African Jungle I Don't think that's the issue. The issue is I don't I don't I Generally think that you'd be challenged to convince me that female humans yeah are selected for now short trades are selected for now it makes sense to me that a.
[01:00:57] Keith: Um, well beyond right.
[01:01:11] Mike: Prepubescent female wouldn't have certain traits because yeah, it's not. It's a waste of you know effort for the guy to try to impregnate her. Okay, fine. But once they're pregnant impregnable I don't impregnable. It's it's hard for me to believe that and I think that's I've always thought that's what accounts for the tremendous variety of.
[01:01:14] Keith: Right? right? impregnable.
[01:01:29] Mike: Sizes and shapes of women is that they all get pregnant. So you you maintain a lot of diversity diversity is good as we all know.
[01:01:32] Keith: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter right? All right? Not going to touch that that'll do it for this episode of your bio which may vary you can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod at Gmail.com that's ymm the pod at Gmail.com we pay $10 for feedback. So let us have it. We also. Ah, if you want to ask us a question you can do that there and let us know if you don't want us to use it on the show. Ah, thanks for listening and we will catch you next week on your mileage may vary.