Your Mileage May Vary: Surprise MMF Threesome, Womansplaining, Orgasm Expertise, Monogamy While Sugaring

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith I'm pretty pleased with our topic list for today's show which includes a discussion about the benefits of monogamy for children libido changes due to various supplements and medications a surprise. Threesome and more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike and Mike I was thinking about something this week as I laid in bed not sleeping as I would have preferred and when is the last time you lost material sleep because of.
[00:25] Mike: Are.
[00:37] Keith: Like being out too late partying or you're trying to get laid or anything like I I just feel like I have such good control of my sleep when I control the variables but in the dating world I don't control the variables.
[00:40] Mike: Um, oh.
[00:53] Mike: Yeah, that doesn't ah yeah, that's not a common I'm not sure I've ever had that happen and that's not true. That's not true I've had that happen sure where you're like fucking late at night and you like had something to do the next day sure sure that's happened but not cut, not common, not common. No.
[01:07] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean I'm seeing somebody now that yeah, it's just she stays up a lot later than she has horrible sleep hygiene and it's sort of frustrating. Um.
[01:22] Mike: It's particularly difficult this time of year when you have the the sun's not up for that long. So if you're not careful. You can like only get like 3 hours of or whatever some very small number of hours of sunlight at it. You can basically put yourself in Iceland or Alaska.
[01:37] Keith: I can't sleep outside of my like sleeping window like between 11 and seven I can always sleep perfectly and soundly and get my 8 hours in but if I go to bed at Eleven thirty I will still wake up at at exactly 7
[01:37] Mike: If you're not careful right.
[01:55] Keith: If I go to bed at two thirty I will still wake up at exactly 7 and.
[01:57] Mike: Um, you know what that makes me think of the movie groundhog day how he always wakes up with that. Ah, what is I'm not sure what the song is is it. It doesn't matter. Ah yeah, but it makes me think of that I think most people do not experience that I think that's rather unique or unusual.
[02:03] Keith: Yeah, that song that remember.
[02:16] Mike: State of affairs of always waking up at the same time. Sure sure.
[02:16] Keith: Well, it's useful when I control everything because I get perfect sleep. But yeah, anyway, this is definitely a whiny first world problem like oh I'm too busy dating to get my sleep. But yeah, it like occurred to me that yeah I mean you've been married for. However, long, you've been married like I'm sure this effectively never happens to you.
[02:38] Mike: Not the not not pretty much not the situation you're describing I mean I've had it where depending on when you're trying to go to sleep I mean there's the ordinary thing when if you're trying to go to sleep earlier. Something will come up but but I understand what you're you're basically talking about being with somebody who's who wants to stay awake till three a M or something.
[02:48] Keith: Um, yeah.
[02:54] Keith: Right.
[02:57] Mike: I think that I mean don't you think that normally when this happens normally it's the man keeping the woman awake I think that's or awake. Yes, yes, waking her up repeatedly during the night to put an unload another load inside of her. She's like really.
[03:04] Keith: Um I think pestering about sex. Yeah yeah.
[03:11] Keith: Yeah, for better or worse that as it been the case here. So yeah.
[03:14] Mike: Gas tanks full right? But she are you experiencing woman waking you a person a partner you're dating waking open the middle of the night wanting you to fuck her again is that part of it who wow.
[03:25] Keith: Now this person just wants to talk know I'm I'm a victim of my own charm I got a tone of town.
[03:32] Mike: About what Keith about ah pop culture political things sports um astronomy mathematics some of the new proofs coming out.
[03:44] Keith: Ah, ah, some of those topics and not some of the others say ah, all right? Let's move on. So ah, someone told me that.
[03:52] Mike: Ah, yeah.
[04:00] Keith: Her roommate ah always fakes her orgasms with her partners. She was like I'm pretty sure she's faked all of her orgasms and she knows that. Ah, this roommate had like a multi-year ah boyfriend and faked all their orgasms and then I read this thread on Reddit this week and it's pretty short so I'm just going to read it now. She's like hi I'm a nineteen year old female and my boyfriend an 18 year old male have known each other and have been best friends for over eight years two months ago I confessed I liked him and we started having a relationship and things have been amazing. However I've had prior experience when it comes to being sexual while he is not.
[04:23] Mike: Um, sure.
[04:39] Keith: And made it very clear that it doesn't matter to him and that I'm more than happy to work with him through things during our sexy time I usually give him oral while he only uses his fingers I make him come every time. However, he hasn't really gotten me there yet. The start of our relationship I made sure not to fake it made sure not to fake it and. Just trying to tell him what I was feeling and why it wasn't really working but it got to the point where he was getting frustrated with himself and I didn't know what to do So I started to fake it and it made him really Happy. So since I have just kept doing that I still give him some instruction but he doesn't really get it and gets to the point where it feels like I'm faking it to get it over with. Sounds just awful to say I Love this man to Death. He is my best friend and I don't know what to do I Really don't want to keep faking it because eventually the truth's going to come out and I know that might hurt a more advice would be amazing. Ah I mean we've touched on this many times but like the damage she's doing.
[05:27] Mike: Okay.
[05:36] Keith: To like just women in general with this kind of behavior is ah profound like every partner that this man has going forward is like like he's just going to be confused. He thinks that he knows like how to do things and he's clueless like why.
[05:55] Keith: Yeah, like faking has downstream consequences.
[05:58] Mike: Yeah I mean you know that my prior on this is just I start from a different position than you do I think that yeah I combine faking with women being confused about orgasms or doing this alternate definition of orgasms that we talk about sometimes where they that we get yelled at by women about where ah. Where they they've they think there's a separate thing that happens to women that doesn't happen to men. There's There's a type of orgasm women have that's very similar to what a man has right? There's like this thing where if you describe it and which.
[06:21] Keith: Sure Yeah, let's focus our attention there on for this Governor's Asian the real ones.
[06:31] Mike: Oh okay, yeah, so but the I'm just saying that like this other thing I think you when you I lump that together with the women who are faking to arrive at a conclusion that some very large percentage of female quote unquote orgasms are not orgasms and it's probably like 8 age loaded. So ah when a woman is.
[06:45] Keith: Um, oh I see.
[06:50] Mike: I don't know 17 It's probably like half of women. That's all they're experiencing either faking or no orgasms faking or something they think is an orgasm that isn't and then yeah and then or or just not having one and being honest about it. You know, just not not going through emotions. Ah, and then that declines over time I have no idea.
[06:58] Keith: Faking or misidentifying. Yeah.
[07:09] Mike: But but my guess would be that something like you know by age Fifty. It's still like 25% of women are in that category that it would my guess is something like that. So it. It leads me to a different conclusion than you have right? It's not oh,, there's this I actually would guess that of those categories. The faking women is the smallest. So I don't think that there's some massive set of faking women out there that are like. Ruining it for everyone I think there's just this general problem and that causes men to not understand female sexual Response. So Ironically, the people that yell at us saying you don't understand everybody's different. It's like yeah, actually what you're doing is hurting women that that I think hurts women a lot more this like this this rhetoric that says oh., Everything's an orgasm. It's like ok well then no women then basically no men are gonna even try to give women Orgasms Um I mentioned. Do you want to say more about this because I have I have a something that there' an offshoot of this. Okay so I mentioned I think.
[07:48] Keith: Right? right.
[07:56] Keith: Now go ahead.
[08:01] Mike: Last week or two weeks ago this this couple on pornhub and I I was I couldn't remember the name but I found it now I'm going to send you a link and I'll put it in the show notes they're called the lustful lovers lustful lovers pretty pretty amateur seeming I mean obviously it's not amateur and that they have ah you know more than 100 videos so why don't you go into that.
[08:06] Keith: Okay. Okay.
[08:21] Mike: Link that I will put in the show notes as well. So people can enjoy it go to save 15 minutes and we don't need to like watch it together or anything but you can sort of see what's going on here. Um, it's a pretty attractive couple I mean the man is in really good shape young the woman's very pleasing on the eye.
[08:22] Keith: Okay.
[08:40] Keith: Um, yeah.
[08:40] Mike: Young, um, like nice, nice looking everything on her. Basically I mean I what? what? how would you rate her a scale to 1 to 10 to serve of attractiveness just a pretty decent size chin.
[08:48] Keith: Um, ah she's she's yeah I do like Chisel jaws. Ah yeah, she's attractive I don't Ah, she's not really my cup of tea.
[09:00] Mike: Um, yes, okay.
[09:08] Keith: But I but I can appreciate that This is an attractive lady.
[09:08] Mike: Um, ok, ok so what this couples very sort of amateur. They seem to really like each other what he does something annoying like when he's nutting. He'll say I Love you again and again which I find actually kind of revolting. Yeah.
[09:18] Keith: Yeah, they're being. They're being very affectionate after he nodded I did yeah.
[09:26] Mike: Yeah, so you you had the sound on in your headphones I take it? Um, so the ah but if you if you pay attention to the sort of later parts of their videos. He this is the guy who always says like come with me come with me and she obviously never does.
[09:39] Keith: I say.
[09:42] Mike: Obviously like I watch it and I'm like this woman now I don't know if he if it's just dirty talk and like if so good on them I Hope you know that's totally I don't I don't care. You know if people are have their own way of pattering but if he thinks she's having an orgasm that's not great because she's not.
[09:55] Keith: Right.
[09:58] Mike: She's just basically like trying to urge him to finish because she likes it. She's not like mad at him or anything. It's just yeah, she's not she's pretending. She's she's not even really faking to be honest, but you know so this is the kind of thing that I think men see and they think oh okay so. The way this the female body works is as I get close to my orgasm. She gets super excited and has an orgasmic experience and it's like that's it's not impossible, but it's not common. Did they show they showed something at the end that you didn't like didn't they what did they do.
[10:23] Keith: Um, yeah, sorry him I really see it on my face. Oh he's just letting the the calm drip out of her and then he's like rubbing it between his fingers and.
[10:32] Mike: Oh yeah, Jesus.
[10:38] Mike: They're letting it drip out. It's really bad. It reminds me of um if you have candle wax that's melting and then part of it congeals. But the rest is still melted. It's like that and so they have slightly different colors. There's like this very silver come and then there's some more watery kind of clearish translucent come and it's to really.
[10:42] Keith: Yeah, yes, yeah.
[10:54] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[10:55] Mike: Really not I don't understand why anybody would get off on seeing that. Um, yeah, sorry sorry about that part so people can confine their watching to say 15 minutes through fifteen fifty sixteen minutes so to be careful if.
[11:07] Keith: Yeah, yeah, it takes a a nose dive. You know we've talked about this before but Pornhub has the little chart that shows like where people are most interested in the videos and yeah, it tapers off real quick after the ah the apex there I know.
[11:14] Mike: Um, this is There's a little bit of a I mean Actually there's a little bit of a hump I think I detect around the scooping the semen out part though. Yeah sure you should that was not the point at all the point was just the.
[11:25] Keith: I Know I know I see that too. Okay I have to close this this. Ah.
[11:33] Mike: Like I actually um when consuming porn this particular couple though I find I think I find her more attractive than you do I find it's just nice or both nice looking. It's great. They it's amateur feeling like it's cool, but the um her him.
[11:39] Keith: Right? yep.
[11:47] Mike: Insisting that she orgasm really takes me out of it I Really don't like that because I actually empathize with the woman. It's like she can't orgasm on Command like that I know she can't.
[11:48] Keith: I Have a.
[11:57] Keith: Um, ah my thought is that they could be hamming it up for the camera I get it even even if that's the case it bothers you? yeah.
[11:59] Mike: Ok, but it but I'm just saying It's not my It's not my cup of tea that they're doing that. Yeah yeah, so I So yeah, which goes back to your point of I think that that kind of thing that kind of thing really potentially does a disservice to women because it that's not realistic now.
[12:16] Keith: It's just this like epidemic of not orgasms is something that I hadn't really I mean people moan about how confused men are about the female orgasm but like is that even a reasonable critique. I mean men probably are ah, unfairly dismissive and and not interested in. You know, female pleasure. But even for the interested man. It's pretty fricking confusing There's just all these. There's Fakes. There's calling things orgasms that aren't orgasms. There's. You know all all this stuff on porn where like you know the women are you know pretending that various activities are arousing to them but they just obviously aren't there's just yeah, this whole jungle of confusion.
[13:02] Mike: Yeah, and and not to mention that there's this is this reminds me of like some sort of culture war narrative that we don't have to get into but there's a certain amount of kind of belittling of men saying oh men just don't understand that being I mean ok maybe but if you take a random man that's over thirty years old and a random woman.
[13:21] Keith: Um.
[13:22] Mike: The random man is much more likely to in depth understand how orgasms work in a human body than the woman is just because men know when they've had them by age thirty. A man is very like almost all men have had a lot of them. They know how to produce them. They know what they feel like whereas the woman might actually like decent odds of never having had one and be very confused about it So men.
[13:32] Keith: Yeah, should hope so.
[13:41] Mike: Really do have some kind of biological. It would be like this is what it's like it's like womansplaining like men are men know more about orgasms than women do like right because we're better. We're better at it.
[13:50] Keith: While we're gonna get clipped can can I could feel it now. Ah okay I wanted to mention like 1 other thing from you know my my dating exploits of the last week
[13:56] Mike: Um, good.
[14:07] Keith: Ah, so I had a date and ah she got like the day wrong and the way I figured out she got the day wrong was she sent me a text apologizing that she was going to be a bit late and I was ah I think the date was supposed to be at say 7
[14:08] Mike: Um, the last week.
[14:18] Mike: When.
[14:25] Mike: Again.
[14:27] Keith: And then she was like oh I'm going to be a bit late more like seven fifteen and then yes and she sent it to me like 5 minutes before or 10 minutes before no before.
[14:29] Mike: But she sent you that on the wrong day. Okay, wait a different day.
[14:42] Keith: Like if you're going to be late. You should be able to tell me you're going to be late more than 2 minutes before you're actually late sure the next day she ah so so I responded I said oh well, thanks for letting me know but we actually agreed to meet tomorrow. Not today and she's like oh yeah, sorry my bad.
[14:46] Mike: Um, but isn't this just an epidemic in sort of Gen Z culture that yeah.
[15:00] Mike: But that means she was on her way and also what I mean my okay my assumption there as a guy would be that she was meant meant to text someone else that she did have a date at 7 with someone else that same day and she just mistakenly texted you right? because otherwise like shit.
[15:01] Keith: Um.
[15:20] Mike: Wouldn't she be like hey but I'm only 3 minutes away from you know what? I mean from the restaurant we're going to or whatever. Okay, you didn't investigate that part. Okay, yeah.
[15:25] Keith: Yeah, yeah I Ah I naively am afraid to report I hadn't considered that but you are right? That's that appears to be ockham's razor Um, but ah setting that aside, um.
[15:42] Mike: Um, yeah.
[15:44] Keith: The day that we actually met. Ah, we had the following um hold out let me have scrolling trying to find it here. Ah um, okay, found it. She said so sorry running a bit late I'll see you in a few. And I'm like obviously annoyed because you know this is the second time. Yeah, the second time of two days so anyway I I replied no stress which is always what I reply when when people are late because it it it? Yeah no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[16:05] Mike: So she did it again. Yeah.
[16:16] Mike: That's not what you reply when I say am late I can go through my messages but you always say you always say like dot.dot yeah it's really ugly.
[16:20] Keith: No I like rip you a new one? Yeah, anybody who's like anybody who knows me I find it like totally unacceptable for them to be late because they know that that's like what if my like that's like maybe my only role of engagement is beyond fucking time all right anyway. So I reply no stress because you know I'm not trying to.
[16:29] Mike: Ah, right? It's true. It's true.
[16:39] Keith: Self-sabotage myself and then she said yes stress l lo l first impressions are really important and I am very punctual so I am stressed I'll be there soon. So sorry again and I kind of wanted to reply well except for yesterday to right? because like she's like first impressions.
[16:54] Mike: Um, well she was technically quite early.
[16:58] Keith: First impressions are really important and I really and I am very punctual. So I just think it's I just thought that was sort of funny. Um, no I actually reeled in my my rage and gave her a fair shot and I thought yeah I thought it was a pretty good date.
[17:01] Mike: Okay, how did the date go then I mean did that did that taint your entire experience.
[17:18] Keith: Like I will see her again now. No unfortunately not maybe maybe next time.
[17:18] Mike: I thought you were going to say you reeled in something else all right? um, have we talked about this come comedian have we talked about this comedian named Taylor Tomlinson that her name we probably talked about.
[17:29] Keith: Nope looking her up now.
[17:33] Mike: You can? Why don't you take 30 seconds and talk about what you think about having Taylor Swift shown every single time the Cleveland sorry the Kansas City Chief Score a touched him touchdown.
[17:41] Keith: Kansas City okay I have like a like fourth wave opinion on this. Ah so like the current zeitgeist is like most men are like infuriated by it.
[17:47] Mike: Okay.
[17:53] Keith: And they like want the chiefs to lose because they're so tired of seeing Taylor Swift every time Travis Kelsey scores scores a touchdown. Yeah, ah my take is I don't understand why men care so much who gives a shit.
[17:59] Mike: That's how I feel and I like Taylor Swift's music. So yeah, go on.
[18:11] Keith: She's pretty they show her for like a grand total of 90 seconds a broadcast like who cares and like her boyfriend's pretty awesome at football. It's this is supposed to be like this masculine like we're we're supposed to watch. We're supposed to see the touchdown dance instead of Taylor.
[18:16] Mike: Oh because it's yeah because it's like tainting. It's like yeah, it's because it's it's it's like taking them out of their zone.
[18:31] Keith: Holding hands with her mother in law. Yeah.
[18:31] Mike: It's it's just too much it. It's forcing us all into like Instagram land like it doesn't have to be Taylor Swift it could be like princess such andso or the son or the daughter of the president or something. Well, it'd be funny if it was Hunter Biden but you know.
[18:43] Keith: You don't think it reveals like some sort of thinly veiled misogyny that like so much of like men and in Middle America are so outraged by this.
[18:49] Mike: Now No no I think it has I think it has to do with um, being feeling like ever your entire life is being invaded by social media culture. It could be a guy. It could be a guy they pan up to all the time and would be same outrage I think.
[19:05] Keith: All right? I'm not sure I agree but we can move on Taylor Tomlinson
[19:08] Mike: Or so similar level. Okay so Taylor Tomlinson is a comedian that I don't find funny. Um, she's ah so I don't fully understand it but it but I but she has a bit that I've seen that I wanted to get your take on her bit is basically I'm it's not a I didn't find it funny when I heard her say it and but I'm not.
[19:19] Keith: Okay.
[19:27] Mike: Taylor Tomlinson so won't even be funny because my cadences won't be right? but basically the gist is ah a guy her she had an ex-boyfriend who wanted credit and she would. He would basically tell her every time he got hit on by a girl because you know he wanted. Yeah, he wanted to sort of I guess show his fidelity to her.
[19:40] Keith: Um.
[19:46] Mike: Oh you know? Guess what happened today this guy hit on me or this this girl hit on me and the Starbucks or whatever. Um, and her point of course is to be sort of outraged or like irritated that you know he's he wants credit for um, kind of following the rule the most basic rule of engagement.
[20:04] Keith: Um, yeah I think.
[20:05] Mike: Is the term she uses in a relationship and then of course the the follow on is like a woman could you like a woman is constantly fending off these sorts of things. Yes.
[20:13] Keith: Yes, right? So so here's the problem I think I used to have the intuition that Taylor Tomlinson's ex-boyfriend had which is like you can sort of prop yourself up by. Um so you know saying that like you know some other woman vetted you and and and hit on you. But yeah.
[20:29] Mike: Right.
[20:33] Keith: That doesn't work because yeah, like women don't understand the male experience and the male experience is like no one ever hits on you ever and so like like a woman hitting on me actually is sort of a remarkable event and it is sort of it is sort of like ah a plus oneing thing but like women think that you're just like boasting about something that's like totally normal.
[20:43] Mike: Right.
[20:51] Mike: Right.
[20:52] Keith: And so yeah, there's like an experience gap there that makes it that yeah that guy thinks that he's one upping himself. But really, she's just get yeah she she doesn't see it that way. She just sees it as boasting.
[21:08] Mike: Ok, now people say that this Taylor Tomlinson person is clever articulate smart whatever do you think that she knows that and so is making some sort of clever like she there's some sort of ah wink to the audience or something that she knows that.
[21:11] Keith: O.
[21:19] Keith: No I doubt it.
[21:22] Mike: You You think she's just making the Baseline joke and she actually doesn't understand that a guy would want to brag or would want to like he might just genuinely be proud of himself or impressed with himself. He might not be trying. Basically the thing you said that he's that it's an unusual experience and notable in a man's life when that happens you think she might not know that.
[21:37] Keith: I think that I think the proper reaction for a woman actually is something like what that man's intuition is which is like as long as he's not being a dick about it. He's like hey I was like at a bar today and this woman like hit on me. Um I think that should be sort of like.
[21:54] Mike: Um, validating. Yeah yeah.
[21:55] Keith: Validating or or at advocating. Um, you know it. He's like oh she was really hot like ah yeah, like you want you want to use some tact but um in a vacuum it is sort of like a a good sign I think um, but yeah.
[22:10] Mike: So what do you think is the typical female reaction though. It's it's that they're insecure.
[22:16] Keith: I Don't know if I don't know if it's like Disgust or they're like just assuming I think women don't like being faced with like the notion that their partners are constantly have ah have a wandering eye toward other people.
[22:32] Mike: Right.
[22:35] Keith: And instead of like sort of embracing that fact and understanding it and and not just tolerating it but sort of coming to terms with it I think instead most women like sort of like lead a life of almost like wanting to put their fingers in their ears about the way that like. The male experience generally is and um.
[22:55] Mike: Yeah, it suggests this suggests that I have a friend or that often brings up that things like oh well maybe the way the culture dealt with this sometime in the past was better this suggests that kind of people women or whoever sort of. Being more at ease with these kind of boorish male behaviors in the way people maybe were in the past might actually be more skillful because it's at least you're Accepting. This is just the reality of it and yeah.
[23:20] Keith: Yes, yeah, like yeah pretending that men don't have a wandering eye doesn't really get you anywhere like it's just going to get you disappointed.
[23:29] Mike: Um, sure. Yeah was ah my wife was telling me about a coworker who was complaining. They have a new child a female coworker and she was complaining because her husband is not as interested in the little kid as she is and the analogy that I Drew was look I think that. In the same way that women get some kind of kind of deep inner joy from watching a little baby men get men get some pleasure from me so you know like I like watching little kittens play and stuff. It's not. It's not 0 sure. Um, but I think there's some deep inner joy the women get and I think that a decent analogy for that is porn.
[23:53] Keith: Yeah I like puppies too. Yeah.
[24:08] Mike: Women Yeah, a woman can appreciate porn. She can see Wow that's he's really giving it to her but there's something else going on when a man watches porn. My wife actually issues like ha like I didn't she didn't argue with me like there's there's something there because it is a thing that women just don't get I mean a woman can enjoy porn. But it's not the same men really like porn.
[24:10] Keith: Ah, while.
[24:15] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[24:26] Mike: Like our brains are programmed for it. It's it's what we're for, but we're not really 4 babies in the same way.
[24:27] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I think about this would be good I don't think they do analogies on the SAT anymore but if they did they're like women are the babies as men are to cow horse.
[24:40] Mike: Yeah, careful if you put goat in there might be tricky shark.
[24:45] Keith: Po or yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true, um, all right, let's move on ah this person wonders on the sugar lifestyle forum which is the sugar baby's sugar daddy subreddit. Ah she says do men want monogamy. So sugaring has altered my opinions on monogamy I think it is still my dream to settle down with one man and have a family one day I think it's highly important for children to grow up with 2 loving parents. So I want to provide that dynamic for my future children I've also been exploring varying degrees of openness in relationships I'm still unsure of how realistic it is to have 1 single person fulfill. All your needs. Does sound ideal to only have to date one man though and to build one strong connection like a soul tie where my partner and I are each other's best friends and enjoy living life is one. Okay, yeah, that's a bit much through experiences sugaring I've begun to wonder if monogamy is something that men actually desire in life.
[25:30] Mike: Ah, ah.
[25:38] Keith: Or if it's just something they feel they have to conform to a lot of sugar daddies are married which honestly concerns me I know some wives are fine with it. But it makes me fearful that one day I'll be at the other end of it I'll be the wife with a man that has a younger girlfriend on the side can one woman? Yeah, well yeah, can one woman truly ever satisfy a man.
[25:49] Mike: But maybe you won't care. Go ahead and yeah.
[25:56] Keith: I Know married sugar daddies have unique reasons for sugaring on the side. But I honestly don't see married men myself. So I'm not too sure about it The other side of it too is the single sugar daddies who are unable to settle down and this opt for sugaring because of the nostrings attached element just looking for some insight into the topic. Obviously everyone is.
[26:11] Mike: Sure.
[26:14] Keith: Different but sugaring has literally made me scared to get married and be cheated on by my husband with a younger woman one day I've also heard theories about how hard it is for wealthy for wealthy men to be faithful to one woman because of their increased options and temptations If you're married sugar Daddy who sugar's on the side. Why. Hypothetically is there's something I don't care about her questions So I wanted to read this thread because ah, well for starters I think her concerns are well founded. Um, and then second what is the benefit to children and this is what I teased in the intro.
[26:33] Mike: Um, Ryan.
[26:41] Mike: Um, yeah.
[26:49] Keith: Of Monogamous relationships like I think the thing that matters is having a father present I'm not sure if him being like monogamous to to the mom is necessarily crucial for most of the value that the children get From. Ah, combined families.
[27:12] Mike: Yeah I mean I can I can quote I can do a shout out here to this podcast that has a ticktock account. It's a woman who appears to be she appears to be just basically misogynistic. It's called just Pearly things I think her name is pearl and ah.
[27:27] Keith: Ah, ah, ah.
[27:30] Mike: Her claim is that kids would be better off in divorce if they went with the dad in general because there's a whole bunch of stats Now I think this is data mining because I think that ah when the dad gets custody which is seldom. There's probably a reason yeah and the won't end. The mom is not.
[27:37] Keith: Um, whoa.
[27:42] Keith: He's He's like an allstar yeah or the woman is is whatever the opposite of an all star is a minor leaguer.
[27:48] Mike: Exactly. So I think that there's right. So So I don't think it's I don't think a fair trial has been out of this but basically there are stats showing that men as single parents operate better than women. Um, So yeah I mean so there's that you could you could? yeah you could make that argument I think in general but you're you're you're going after just The. Do children really need a dad and a mom or monogamy ok is it. Okay, if it's a Trans man how about if it's a Lesbian couple what about Pete but a judge.
[28:07] Keith: I think I think for sure they need a dad and a mom I think the research on that is clear I'm not.. It's probably I is there data On. Ah, gay parents versus heterosexual parents and how well the children turn out there can't be.. There's there can't be enough data yet.
[28:30] Mike: Um I haven't I haven't researched that and even if there was data. You'd have to be so I think that you'd have to be suspicious of it because there wouldn't be that much of it and yeah, there'd be. Thered be a lot of sort of nonsense and like I mean gay couples probably typically don't have kids and so the ones that do it's going to be selection Bias Blah Blah blah.
[28:38] Keith: Oh it might be dishonest.
[28:51] Keith: Um, they might be like particularly great parents. Yeah yeah.
[28:51] Mike: Ah, there's going to be all these problems with the data. Yeah, but but I hear you? Okay, so you're thinking that they they're the both genders or gender Whatever have ah have a role to play but your your question is would it matter for the kids if the dad was had sugar babies. Basically.
[29:07] Keith: I Mean if he's if his philandering interferes in his ability to father or interferes or like if the kids can see him treating his wife terribly like those things obviously would would be bad but short of that.
[29:22] Mike: There're also you know there are also behaviors that could once the kid is old enough to have friends in school and so forth The the friends could find out about it or like.
[29:28] Keith: But like why was your dad at my house. Um.
[29:33] Mike: Hey I was listening I I was really horny last night and I was trying to find a sex podcast and found your dad's oh.
[29:40] Keith: Ah, right, right? right? Yeah I don't I don't know this this notion that um, ah, perfectly monogamous couples have the best children. Seems a bit fraught I I bet the main thing that matters is having 2 people regardless of sex and if whether or not they have side pieces probably doesn't matter that much as long as they're being reasonably responsible about it.
[30:12] Mike: I think it probably matters that you have I think the dynamic of having 1 parent that's more sort of strict and 1 parent. That's a little more humanistic or something is probably beneficial to but that's typically going to happen because you'll have people have dirt different personalities. You'll have 1 parent that's sort of nicer right.
[30:25] Keith: Yeah I mean what are the odds that they have like identical strictness.
[30:31] Mike: Yeah, um, but there were other things in that in that post to unpack I mean ah, her kind of surprise at encountering this male behavior and I thought kind of articulate description of like how it explodes or changes some of her thoughts.
[30:46] Keith: Yeah.
[30:48] Mike: About life I Do think that she's being a little naive on the topic of oh I'm worried about on the other end if that'll happen to me I I don't know I have no idea what the percentage is on this I suspect that a lot of times when these guys have sugar babies. The wife knows. Whether whether tacitly or explicitly she knows.
[31:08] Keith: Yeah, but if it's tacit. There's usually some you know bumpers and if you you know jump over the bumper that's going to be big, big trouble I don't know I mean you if.
[31:20] Mike: What like what.
[31:27] Keith: See this and there's some movie I saw where ah somebody was like a politician or something and it was fine that it was philandering but when he got caught philandering. It wasn't fine. She was like dude like I was willing to pretend. This isn't happening but now you made it so that it's my problem. Um.
[31:37] Mike: Ah.
[31:44] Mike: Yeah, if you're a politician right.
[31:46] Keith: That's sort of like an in extreme melodramatic example. But you know it could be something like oh yeah, as long as the other wives at the pta. You know don't find out then it's fine. But if if you make it so that like I need to start answering questions to all my friends then we have a problem.
[31:59] Mike: I Think more concretely though, that's in many cases. The thing I think that I think that the wife in many of these situations is concerned about social shame concerned about what will it mean for her like is he going to want to divorce her and run off with this other person like what? What's really going to happen. I Think that the concern about oh his penis was near another woman or he had an orgasm with another woman I don't think they care about that as much like I think that's look every little bit matters some but I just think that that's that would be easier to digest and part of the reason I think that is that there have been. Kind of European cultures in the past were having a mistress was kind of Common. It wasn't It wasn't an unusual thing as long as the sort of status of the wife remained Unchanged. It's somewhat more modern to have more of a problem with that I think it's related to religion and so Forth. So I don't necessarily think it has to be problematic I do think.
[32:43] Keith: Right.
[32:51] Keith: Um, yeah.
[32:55] Mike: There's a gender ah inequality here in that I think most men would not like it. Well, it's more of a fetishy thing for a guy to want to have a hot wife the other direction I don't think that's a thing or ah, a Milf wife who's out there with young men I don't I think men would have more of a problem with that. Um, and I just think that's.
[33:07] Keith: Right.
[33:15] Mike: Kind of ah biologically based men are designed to care about who's impregnating their significant other or might be trying to etc. It's not rational.
[33:23] Keith: What if I mean what if she's postmenopausal I Guess like yeah, well and like there's not much adaptive genetic stuff that applies postmenopausal because Humans died generations were shorter than that.
[33:41] Mike: Um, look I'll say this maybe ah maybe one way to get the whole world to be pro-choice is just to and adopt polygamy across the board because then you kind of need to have abortion for selection of who the dad is right? You're like look. I'm fine with you fucking other guys as long as ah as wait. Maybe I mean polyandry polyandry across the board I'm fine with you fucking other guys as long as we can abhort the ones that aren't mine. Oh well, That's good. Question. So.
[33:58] Keith: Aha.
[34:07] Keith: How do you even know.
[34:14] Mike: There are ah there's a company that I've been made aware of that is this is actually a really interesting topic. There's a company that I've been made aware of that is um, pioneering doing your pioneering. They are early stages of doing genetic genetic testing on Embryos that are have not many cells in them and so basically you have to have to. Remove like cells that aren't going to be important later because you don't have that many cells to start with in the embryo and then and then you can test it and the stated purpose of this is to test for genetic diseases right? So you can avoid having exactly exactly but everybody knows that what they're madly doing is.
[34:37] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[34:42] Keith: Down Syndrome etc.
[34:51] Mike: Ah, running machine learning algorithms to make it so that if you do in vitro and you have 20 embryos you can pick the highest iq one or the tallest one or whatever. Um mo you could do the same thing right? You could say look I've got 20 embryos here. Actually if you're doing in vitro you would know who the dad was because it would be done in us test tube. So that's even better.
[34:56] Keith: Yeah, right.
[35:10] Mike: You could just say look I'm not I don't want any biological baby as I just want the invitro ones so you could abort anything that's non in Vitro X Vitro ah for which.
[35:16] Keith: Is the data on this stuff rich enough yet for ah determining future outcomes based on Dna profile like I q I q.
[35:29] Mike: Which outcome. So yeah, so there's the I don't remember his name. Ah Steve Chu I think is Steve Shu he was the ah ah he was like a dean at university of Michigan I want to say or maybe Michigan state in the engineering school of engineering I think and he got. Canceled because of some stuff he said about iq testing or something a few years back and then he he heated an interview where he was working with this company and um there there are things that are pretty well understood which like height for example, height can be predicted very accurately from your genetic sequences and they're Cagey about iq. The thing I would say about that is that ah in the west particularly in the united states there's a lot of sensitivity about this because of various historical eugenics concerns. There are other countries like China where there are much fewer concerns about this and so you can be certain that its work is moving a pace there.
[36:16] Keith: No. My my my intuition would be that as soon as you figure out the technique to do it for something like height. It wouldn't be hard to do it for something like high q.
[36:22] Mike: To to get you some high Iq babies.
[36:32] Mike: I Think that Iq is more multivariate and so they're they that they're more. They're more genes involved. So it's It's a little more complicated. It's true there. There's there are a couple other issues one is that you need a height is extremely easy to measure Iq you have to have.
[36:37] Keith: Sure but I think height is not just 1 gene like height is already multivariate so you've already solved the multivariate problem.
[36:51] Mike: So so they there are a small and there's a small enough data set on Iq and of course in the west to least people a great a grade a great in the us at least or in the west people still debate people make retarded arguments right? They make arguments like Iq doesn't exist which is preposterous. They may you know there.
[36:54] Keith: In China it's not hard to measure they make the all the kids take standardized tests. Yeah, you well the s a t is canceled.
[37:09] Mike: People are still fighting that war whereas I'm sure in China they're not fighting that war. But the point is you need a data set that includes an accurate ah assessment of intelligence and that's going to be at multiple ages and then need that back figure that to the genes is complicated. It doesn't actually the.
[37:20] Keith: Yeah, but early age correlates a later age I'm sure early age early age I Q doesn't correlate to later age I Q yes it does.
[37:29] Mike: It correlates to some extent but it doesn't stabilize until you're in your late teens to early twenty s so there can be. There can be significant changes um in any event that yeah that the.
[37:32] Keith: Interesting. Yeah, but yeah, but I mean my guess would be that you can have downside risk with not much upside risk. Yeah yeah, like if like if you have like a one twenty I Q when you're.
[37:48] Mike: On intelligence from early to late age you mean.
[37:56] Keith: 5 it's unlikely that you're going to have a one forty I q later but it's possible. You could have a ninety I q later. That's my intuition I have no idea.
[38:01] Mike: I don't think that I don't know if that's right or not but I but I think that yeah I don't think the numbers are that big I think that if you are one 20 you're going to be close to one twenty later it's the but they but still not stable yet it not stable, but um, but it's directional. No yeah, there's.
[38:09] Keith: Yeah, well, you're the one that said it didn't stabilize. Yeah, okay, right right? We should move on this is getting into like.
[38:18] Mike: Sure there's 1 other thing I wanted to say about that but you made me not real to remember it. So so the the you're the worst um in vitro chinese babies I can't remember go on move on I'll remember it later and I'll bring it up. People can stay tuned.
[38:21] Keith: I'm sorry I'm the worst so my fault.
[38:32] Keith: Right? All right back to sex this person says I can't stop I'm a 31 year old woman and married to a wonderful man with a super high sex drive minus slowed down over the years to his dismay going from 4 to 5 times a week to maybe once a week if lucky there's no reason for it. Just no urge. He is extremely handsome and great in bed. But the urges went poof. Well.
[38:36] Mike: Yeah.
[38:51] Keith: I've had to start taking some supplements as I was low in some things Ferritin Vitamin C Vitamin D 3 been on them for about three weeks and in the past few days I can't stop. It's persistent I've been hounding my poor husband multiple times a day so serving myself multiple times a day but nothing is helping is that the vitamins should I go to my doctor l o l I feel like I'm going crazy. I mean I've heard of the dirty 30 s but this is ridiculous. We're going to dehydrate the first comment. The first comment is furiously scribbles notes ferratin vitamin c vitamin d 3 um I don't understand.
[39:17] Mike: Um.
[39:22] Mike: So so.
[39:31] Keith: I Mean we've been through this before but I don't understand how people can have such wildly disparate sex drive like I just have like a passive high desire to have orgasms. Basically all of the time except for like the hour after I orgasm.
[39:50] Mike: Um, well this is a woman though but woman's a woman's dis.
[39:51] Keith: I know and I know women I know women I know like for example, during their cycle. It can shift but this like going from like wanting to have sex once a week to suddenly just being like totally insatiable like that's such a wild swing and it can't just be because she's drinking like whole milk.
[40:09] Mike: Well yeah I don't know I don't know what even what ferritin is that iron. It's weird must be some Australian thing or something veg you might, but the yeah I mean women for women sex drive is going to be much less selected for than it is for men right? So it sort of doesn't matter.
[40:11] Keith: Whatever vitamin d 3 is in.
[40:29] Mike: Um, although obviously every woman has a male and a female progenitor so they have you know men women are largely the Same. Um, but yeah, it's going to be less selected for so that doesn't surprise me that there could be a much bigger standard deviation in like the way that women. Experience these things in men it would surprise me although and the other thing I would say is that men do definitely report that if you take testosterone. It makes a huge difference like you can take a man who is low sex drive and push it up a lot with testosterone.
[40:54] Keith: Yeah, that's true.
[41:01] Mike: I learned that from Doug Flutte and Frank Thomas and whoever else does those ads on Tv for testophon they have low t.
[41:07] Keith: I thought I thought Frank Thomas was h g as he has a low t I mean he's 6 4 two hundred and seventy pounds and he mashed 500 home runs you think that but I would correlate with high t maybe it.
[41:13] Mike: He also has slow T He's got some problems.
[41:24] Mike: How he may he may be lying to make money. It's not impossible.
[41:26] Keith: Maybe it faded out this experience though of like just being totally uninterested in sex I've never had that I know men can get that on antidepressants I'm like mildly curious to like try that for a week just to see like. What my life would be like but I think there would be other I think it would just like remove my drive to do important things generally that would be my concern.
[41:49] Mike: Yeah I mean I think that a lot of your drives are emotional like this are hormonal. It's just you're saying that your sex drive is static or constant relatively constant right? I mean it wasn't at higher when you were say twenty years old
[41:55] Keith: Um, yeah I feel stable. Yeah.
[42:05] Keith: Yeah I'm sure it was more distracting I think when I was twenty years old
[42:11] Mike: Is that because you had less access to sex.
[42:15] Keith: Or or or good porn or make maybe feeling more shame about masturbating I don't care now happy to masturbate to the cows come home.
[42:20] Mike: Who did you were you worried that there was some like your your ancestors were watching you beat off or something were you? okay.
[42:31] Keith: I don't know we had this conversation with ah a friend of the pod years ago about how he and I still feel a little bit of shame after masturbating and you were like I don't yeah you were like what I don't know what that is yeah.
[42:45] Mike: Right? I don't think I ever felt that I was always just proud of myself. Yeah I mean whatever it's a good way to like ah have a good time. It's not yeah.
[42:48] Keith: Know what? what look? What I've done. Yeah I don't know why? Yeah no I Remember when we had that conversation it occurred to me I was like oh yeah, maybe it's weird that I feel like a little bit of shame after masturbating. But. No I Yeah I mean it's talked about it like pop culture all the time like yeah I think you might be the unusual one but I prefer I prefer your way that sounds awesome.
[43:11] Mike: I Think that's probably right? Well I would be ashamed if ah, you know I were caught on camera or if my kids walked in I mean there's all these things that would be lame. So so that's not but I mean I wouldn't be ashamed if they walked in while I was doing something else. So obviously I do have ah.
[43:19] Keith: Of course, of course.
[43:29] Mike: Some feelings about it.
[43:31] Keith: Um, maybe ah maybe it's adaptive to feel shame. It's like I don't want to like be masturbating by myself I Want to be having orga I want to be having partnered orgasms. It's like a little bit of a nudge toward that.
[43:41] Mike: I feel I think I feel more ashamed from Partner Orgasms partnered orgasms because then there's somebody witnessing it kind of that's true. So there's there's another thing in this question really briefly. Ah.
[43:45] Keith: I Don't know if shame is the right word you you feel like annoyed in the immediate aftermath. That's not shame. It's different. Yeah.
[43:59] Mike: It's about the yeah I wanted to double click on this with you for a second. So the the implied here is that the guy is not that interested in her. He's lost some amount of interest like she's hounding him and he's he's less interested in that must that would.
[44:14] Keith: I Don't know if that's really implied. Actually she talked about how her husband has a super high sex drive and now I think she's saying hers is closer to matching his. She's worried that they're going to get dehydrated because they're having sex so much.
[44:18] Mike: Okay.
[44:24] Mike: Got it? Okay, well let me ask you this anyway. So in your experience of finding that you're attracted attraction to partners sometimes or often declines after some number of sexual encounters is.
[44:38] Keith: Yes.
[44:43] Mike: Does the partner's skill or something they do during sex I realize that so this occurred to me as I was like walking a couple nights ago. The so the attraction naturally is going to be highest the first few times you have sex because like.
[44:57] Keith: And of course yeah and I think women it's it's almost impossible for a woman to be you know quote unquote bad in bed and for the first like you know, 5 sexual encounters with them.
[44:59] Mike: It's It's basically a stranger that you've now convinced to do this thing with you that women don't want to do typically. Okay.
[45:15] Mike: Well, that's an interesting point. Okay, so okay, um, but after after those yeah, okay, but after those say 5 times do you find that their skill affects the curve.
[45:19] Keith: Um, because their skill is totally overwhelmed by the newness factor.
[45:30] Mike: You experience in terms of is there something they can do or some way they can behave or some excitedness they can have that change that makes you more interested longer. Yeah, the answer is no okay.
[45:36] Keith: Yeah I understand the question. Ah I don't know the answer is I don't know I suspect just like physical attractiveness it helps extend the runway that. Ah. Prowess would help extend the runway the runway on getting bored. Um, but I'm not sure because I haven't really yeah I would I would need like a series of people that I dated for like four months or something and that's.
[45:59] Mike: Um, but you're not sure stuck around long enough to test that.
[46:09] Mike: You don't have that.
[46:12] Keith: That's just not how at least it doesn't happen back to back to back to back.
[46:16] Mike: Is there a point app is there a date after which you can't really ghost the person so you have to like it makes the breakup more complicated so there's a strong strong incentive to ghost before that is like date 10 or something.
[46:28] Keith: Um I don't like sending the shit sandwich text or delivering this shit sandwich phone call but it never stops me I don't think it stops me from breaking up with people.
[46:32] Mike: Okay.
[46:42] Mike: But you but you might break up with them earlier if you know my point was if you know that you're nearing the date when you would feel obligated to do more you might write break up with them or ghost them or whatever before or they might do it to you before that moment.
[46:49] Keith: Oh I see.
[46:56] Keith: I Might yeah if I feel like things are getting too serious and I want to avoid some sort of awkward messy Breakup that might be I don't know.
[46:59] Mike: Do you know what? that. When is that moment though it's it's dependent is it is it because something happens so they they say something and then you're like oh crap I better cut this off.
[47:16] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I went on a few dates with someone about a month ago and she on our last date she started doing some like future date planning like multiple future date planning. She also she said we were you know the cirta sole we were like next to like the circta sole tent. There's like a bar that is sort of near that area in San Francisco and she was saying that she like loved the circus and that.
[47:37] Mike: Um.
[47:40] Mike: Yeah.
[47:47] Mike: Yeah.
[47:54] Keith: She really wanted to go and she was like oh we should go next week and and I was like hit yes, hold on she she was raving about the circus and I was like you know the circus got canceled like fifteen years ago there hasn't been a circus and she's like no like that's a circus and I was like.
[47:56] Mike: Did she say she loved the circus or so so is stay okay.
[48:07] Mike: There we go? yeah.
[48:12] Keith: And I was like have you been to Cirtis Soleil before she was like yeah and like she didn't know the ignorance she was revealing that like Cirtis sole is different than the circus or that she can't have really possibly been to either because then she would understand the difference. Um.
[48:22] Mike: Um, right.
[48:31] Keith: And so no, no yes, the elephants Yeah, that's why they canceled it is because I guess it was cruel to the animals.
[48:31] Mike: Well, it could be generational in that. So yeah I mean nobody would call it the circus right? when you say the circus I think of like a trained bear or ah, an elephant and so forth. Yeah, and to be fair, Maybe there aren't trained bears because that would be dangerous.
[48:46] Keith: Oh it actual circuses. No they had they had bears at circuses. No doubt. Yeah I think they sedated them in stuff. It was like pretty inhumane.
[48:47] Mike: I'm not so sure about that but they're you know, trained animals of yeah ok ok I wasn't sure I think the last time I went to one was when I was like 5 years old so I don't who okay, okay.
[49:01] Keith: Also why did we use the word inhumane when describing poor treatment of animals shouldn't it be like in animal Maine.
[49:06] Mike: Yeah I don't it's just that it's say it's by analogy from the from the yeah from the the human experience. It's because animals are just small humans. That's why you should be vegan never mind what animals do to 1 another in the wild that doesn't happen.
[49:18] Keith: Okay, yeah I told you about the 4 hour podcast I listened to about shrimp welfare um I actually found it pretty convincing but that's a different conversation. Ah.
[49:26] Mike: You dead.
[49:33] Mike: You found you found whatever I mean it's fine I mean there's doesn't hurt necessarily to be nice animals. It's fine per what year if we are.
[49:39] Keith: We kill something like 4000000000000 shrimp man if there's yeah, if there's some non-zero amount of of of negativity there you can get you can get a lot of positivity by like slightly modifying the treatment of shrimp.
[49:55] Mike: I think if you could just take that number to three point nine trillion and take that extra 100000000000 and just do pitbulls then we'd be really on to something.
[50:06] Keith: We're gonna my god this the second time we're gonna get yelled at an emails this week all right let's do the threesome thing. Um I mean you know fans of the show know that we like preposterous threesome things. But this one is this I like this one all right? My girlfriend.
[50:19] Mike: Yeah.
[50:22] Keith: Brought in another man and said she wants both of us to have sex with her wait I think she needs to say with him. Yeah, right? um throwaway count is I don't want associate it with my man I can't imagine why my ah 31 year old ah girlfriend sorry he's thirty one she's 30
[50:25] Mike: With him but with her they book I get it.
[50:42] Keith: And I've been together for a few months now recently she asked me whether I'd be down for something new which we haven't tried before I said sure she clarified again and I said yeah sure I was thinking it'd be something harmless. So the gist is that I asked her what this new thing was and she said oh just something I thought I'd enjoy I'll show you later. Maybe that was two weeks ago today she invited me to her house and after arriving I learned that her colleague David a 32 year old man whom I had not met before was also present. There. She introduced me to him and said that the new thing she wanted to try was that she wanted both of us to fuck her at the same time I was just shocked I did not know how to react to her want to have sex with another man. She said that I'd say that she said that I'd said I'll do anything and I said she blindsided me but her argument was that I said anything I asked her how long has this affair been going on how many guys have you fucked like this behind my back and she got mad accusing me of slut shaming her etc.
[51:37] Mike: Oh.
[51:39] Keith: Huge argument resulted and in the end she got mad and kicked me out from her from the place. She did text me later to say that she's having serious thoughts about continuing the relationship and I haven't responded yet I don't know what to do all right? We'll dude your relationship's over. But um I can't even like Imagine. A woman trying to spring this on me like I I it's it's almost uncontempable like how Beta this guy has to be for her to like think that this had like a non non 0% chance of working.
[52:10] Mike: Um, do you think that? do you think that? um you could reverse the genders here and it would be okay so ah, baby. Ah I have something to tell you what's that um I. Well whatever I've got this woman here I want to fuck but the important thing is you tell her? you've been fucking all these chicks she gets upset and you say don't slut shame me.
[52:29] Keith: You don't what shame I Love that part I Knew you're get a key out on that part. Yeah, she like I like bring my girlfriend home and there's like another naked woman in my bed and I demand that she have a threesa with her then when she could play and I say don't slut shape me.
[52:35] Mike: Um, yeah look I'm just I'm just a horny man like whatever.
[52:47] Mike: Um, I Actually really like the sort of temerity of that. Yeah you said you do anything.
[52:48] Keith: I Thought you were sex positive. It's yes's sort of amazing right? right? Yeah like I mean you use the word anything that clearly gives me carte blanche. Um, there's also a corpse in the other room that that I demand that you fuck because you said anything.
[52:58] Mike: Yeah, she basically admitted in this case. Jesus yeah, she basically admitted that she has had sex with other guys. In addition here I mean this is this is more than just David.
[53:12] Keith: Yes, yeah, ah yeah, we we're missing a few details here but he does say how long is this affair going on how many guys have you fucked like this behind my back then she got bad accusing me of Slut shaping her unbelievable.
[53:17] Mike: Yeah, right right? I mean his language might not have been the best choice there. But yeah I don't think I think that this is.
[53:32] Keith: How do you think you would react if if you came home and your wife produced a coworker said. Yeah I mean I I don't blame him for ah you know, not not ah, being perfect on his feet and in that moment.
[53:46] Mike: I'd just be like oh no now we have to do this or no, it will.
[53:47] Keith: Yeah, it's like go No if okay I guess we're getting divorced. Yeah, it's just but like it's not. It's not even a possible thing like it's so outside of like any possibility because you guys aren't insane people.
[54:01] Mike: Um, well I have more knowledge about mmf the problems of MFm and mmf threesomes than the average guy I think but even if I didn't have that knowledge. Yeah with even without that knowledge I I I ah yeah I mean I think this is um.
[54:08] Keith: Yeah, think we both do.
[54:20] Mike: A challenging thing for a guy who's not at least sort of bisexual to want to do or leaning that direction.
[54:23] Keith: Yeah I mean we've talked before I can imagine imagine an Mfm situation where the woman is just so hot and I'm and I'm just I I just want her so badly that I would tolerate the presence of another man but certainly wouldn't be my preference.
[54:40] Mike: Um, well, what would what would you want him to be doing like even okay, but what are you? What would you tolerate? I mean I like I I have consumed I mean it's It's pretty easy to find content like this either in virtual reality or in porn obviously and.
[54:43] Keith: I would want him to not be there.
[54:58] Mike: Presence of the second guys is weird. You know because they always they always frame up the porn. So you're one of the guys like you're sort of kind of involved in 1 of the action then you look over to the right and there's like another dude doing something there and you're kind of like here like does he really have to be there. Um, yeah, like what you know and I guess.
[54:59] Keith: Yeah, no shit.
[55:07] Keith: Ah, there's Bruno.
[55:13] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[55:17] Mike: I Understand that it could amp up I I The one of the things I would question is I sort of question whether the percentage of women that really would have a fetish for this anyway I feel like it's a little performative or fake.
[55:29] Keith: Oh she might have been trying to Torpedo the relationship I didn't look in any of the comments to see if anyone suggested that.
[55:34] Mike: Yeah, well or maybe not just maybe not that but she's trying to she was trying to come up with something kind of off the wall or she just wants a relationship with with David but I'm a little skeptical that that many women would want they might they might.
[55:45] Keith: Are right.
[55:52] Mike: I don't know they might fetishize it some but it's it's tricky to get another guy involved. You know it's like having 2 roosters with the same hen gets tricky.
[55:56] Keith: Um, yeah.
[56:01] Keith: I think I mean this is apropot to something you were. We were saying a couple of minutes ago I think that like if I were inside another woman and she were like blowing a second guy and I think I could I think I could still find that enjoyable.
[56:16] Mike: Um, but you'd have to look at him then.
[56:19] Keith: Now you can sort of crop your your your field of view.
[56:21] Mike: Ok I think I would rather beat off than do that meaning meaning just leave the room and beat off somewhere else. It just I Yeah I Just okay up.
[56:33] Keith: It depends on the woman if this person was like a ninety ninth percentile woman I think I know now I know I Don no no no I would want this to be like a.
[56:40] Mike: But what does that matter because because to to possess this woman in any way you're going to have to do this all the time and ah.
[56:49] Keith: Common situation. It's just like ah something I might do once.
[56:53] Mike: Um, what if your what if it was like a clockwork orange and your eyes were propped open and you had to watch the guy and then what if he had an orgasm while you were having to watch him what if his semen splashed onto you.
[56:58] Keith: Yeah I mean those are both hard passes I think when I had my orgasm I would immediately run out of the room I'd be like Ha Ha I got mine. Yeah, exactly.
[57:09] Mike: Um, that's cut I win.
[57:17] Mike: Yeah I don't know I think it's ah yeah, there is a certain way in which men want sex to be about them and I think this like it sort of reveals it. It's like it's right? yeah.
[57:25] Keith: Um, yeah, of course it breaks it this breaks down that that um, that hope.
[57:33] Mike: It's it's difficult for a guy to want to do it I'm trying to think if I would rather in this situation just have them have sex I'm not sure what I would recommend if I okay so David's there I don't know if David's naked I think I would come up try to come with something weird to propose.
[57:45] Keith: That's an interesting thought experiment.
[57:52] Mike: Like David why don't you beat off over there and then not sure I'm not sure what I would propose.
[57:56] Keith: Okay, let's say okay maybe this is the right way to frame it up. There is a woman and she is going to give David a blowjob and you have to be in the room and you need to have an orgasm as quickly as you possibly can. Okay.
[58:04] Mike: Um, okay.
[58:11] Mike: Okay.
[58:15] Keith: Now Girl What do you do.
[58:19] Mike: Ah, and am I but I'm not upset about the fact that David's doing this to my girlfriend.
[58:24] Keith: Um, yeah, maybe it's not your girlfriend. Maybe it's someone like extremely attractive.
[58:27] Mike: Okay, okay so I'm just so I mean I think most guys just are into it. They can do the Eiffel Tower The wobbly h whenever they get into it and they enjoy it and it's fine. So um, yeah I mean I I Guess let's see she's giving him a blow. So all I have is access to her is her backside.
[58:46] Keith: Well I mean you can position or maybe.
[58:47] Mike: Tricky I'm not sure I would rather here's what I would rather do is I would rather find let's say we were in a room that was like in a nice house and it had drapes I would take one of the drapes cut a circular hole in it.
[58:58] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[59:02] Mike: With a long cut toward 1 of the edges I would put that over him so his cock is only thing sticking through and then I would fuck her I think that would be okay I think that like if I could just make him a glory hole penis. It would be better and also if I could muffle him if I could muffle his sound too.
[59:07] Keith: Ah, ah.
[59:13] Keith: Ah, yeah I agree like yeah I mean you're sort of breaking the preise of the question here. But yeah that that sounds.
[59:23] Mike: Um I think I might I think I would have trouble being aroused with the other guy there I think it would bother me. Yeah.
[59:27] Keith: I think I would too so it's just a thought experiment I don't know like there's also like the presence of like a new extremely attractive vagina like I I don't know how like those 2 countervailing things would would impact my brain and my small brain.
[59:40] Mike: Yeah, yeah I don't know I know I don't know how I don't I don't think it would amp it up for me I think there's some guys where they're like kind of attracted or aroused by bisexual male play where it would amp it up for them I don't think it would for me. Yeah.
[59:54] Keith: Oh for sure I Just yeah I think I'm on the like hetero homosexual spectrum I think I'm just fairly far to the hetero side. Unfortunately yeah, all right I'm going to wrap it up. Ah.
[01:00:01] Mike: Yeah, yeah I think it would be a negative. But yeah.
[01:00:08] Keith: Thank you for listening to this episode of your mileage may vary. You can send us feedback or questions to y mmvpod at Gmail.com if you send us feedback. We pay you $10 give us your venmo or cash app or whatever you use. Ah, and if you ask us a question. Let us know if we can use it on the show again. That's y mmvpod at Gmail.com we appreciate you taking the time to listen and we will catch you next week on your mileage may vary.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 153: Surprise MMF Threesome, Womansplaining, Orgasm Expertise, Monogamy While Sugaring

Episode Transcript