YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary Podcast

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Episode 155: Hyperventilating During Orgasm, Interoceptive Therapy, Porn Site Commenting, Anal Aftermath

Team YMMV | 2-9-2024 | 1:03:11

Read The Transcript

A woman reports experiencing an extraordinary number of orgasms experienced during a bondage session. So many so, in fact, that she passes out from the experience, and she claims that each orgasm became painful, starting about halfway through the session.

What is she experiencing? Is in analogous to the male experience or something completely different? Is passing out indicative of some other phenomenon like hyperventilating or even a medical issue of some kind?

Which men seriously comment on videos posted on porn sites, and what's the goal? And, if your partner is watching porn containing content that differs markedly from what they claim to enjoy in everyday life, is this indicative of anything?

And, what's the right way to handle the "aftermath" of anal?

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/155/orgasmsporn,https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/1ahoqjd/bfs_comments_on_reddit_porn_should_i_be_concerned/https://ymmv.me/155/

anal,https://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/1aj5jby/bf_got_mad_cuz_i_farted_during_anal/https://ymmv.me/155/

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith. We have lots to talk about today including a woman who reports having 32 orgasms what to do with a boyfriend who routinely comments on porn.
[00:12] Mike: Now now.
[00:19] Keith: How to think about a sex hall pass and more I am Keith my co-host is Mike and Mike we took an iq test this afternoon who did better.
[00:26] Mike: Yes, you did.
[00:31] Keith: Do you do you want to say anything more about that or with I I would agree.
[00:34] Mike: Um I think it was not the world's greatest iqe test. Um I'm not even I don't want to post it online on on our show notes and the reason why is because they it's one of these where you finish the test and you have to pay what was it fifteen bucks the real iq test is whether you pay if you pay. Yeah.
[00:45] Keith: Yeah, that's the final question.
[00:53] Mike: But you get you get some kind of score before paying and then they tell you what you got wrong and right? Ah, yeah, anyway, so so that's irritating like I think they should be more upfront about it. Um, but also like we we had. We had various disagreements about some of the questions and so forth Iq tests though I want to say in general I support them and I think that like they they can be valid as long as they're done.
[01:00] Keith: Yeah.
[01:11] Keith: Oh yeah, we we both are generally pro iq especially compared to the the culture these days out of the last well I was going to say out of the last four hours how many of those do you think we've spent discussing iq tests. Oh.
[01:12] Mike: Properly life life is an Iq test. Yes and let me Also yeah, go ahead.
[01:28] Mike: Probably 1 one to 2 Okay, we to be fair just we we both tested scored very very high but but ah, but it's just the other is just it would just be like it. You're you're arguing it like the little grains of sand at the end of the distribution. Ah.
[01:31] Keith: I think it's like 2 Yeah, okay.
[01:35] Keith: Yes, naturally.
[01:43] Keith: Right.
[01:46] Mike: Partly that makes me wonder about this test though because are we all are we that high. We're look if you're listening to this according to this scientifically valid study. We're smarter than you so keep listening.
[01:55] Keith: Yeah I mean well I've taken 3 ah 3 that I can remember iq tests with you and we always score around the same and around the same spot. So I don't know whether they're accurate or not but well and we know each other's essay t scores and that kind of thing.
[02:01] Mike: Yes, yes, yes.
[02:13] Keith: Um, anyway enough on iq should I launch into this 32 orgasm lady I mean yeah well here we go all right? It's it.
[02:17] Mike: Sure, let's do it.
[02:22] Mike: This kind of question often gets us this is this is a hot button for the people that don't like the show They don't like our mansplaining about orgasms about female orgasms. Even though as I said a couple episodes ago men have a lot more experience with orgasms and what isn't is not an orgasm than women and I think women should.
[02:29] Keith: Um, yes, it is.
[02:41] Mike: Pay attention a little more and and stop talking all the time we know what an orgasm is because stuff shoots out of our body when we have or spurts or squirts out of our body when we have one so you know that gives us a little bit of more authority on this. Yeah, it's useful look if 1 gender but.
[02:54] Keith: Um, that's just your male-centric view of Orgasms Mike
[03:01] Mike: Kind of think of an analogy 1 gender has like some phenomenon that's really easy to identify and the other gender has the phenomenon much more difficult to identify wouldn't you use the gender that has the easy to identify thing as a way of you know saying oh this is what the phenomenon is it makes sense other than saying oh no, no, no let's just pretend. It's this crazy amorphous blob and ignore this. So. Scientific evidence we have in front of us.
[03:22] Keith: Well, let's see if we can convince a few more people today. So this is a 23 year old lady. She says a friend may become 32 times and I blacked out should I be scared slept with a friend who's into bondage enforced orgasms was a little reluctant but I trust the guys who didn't mind experimenting a bit. Was comfortably restrained while he kept playing with me and initially it felt really good until about halfway. So I guess we're 16 in. It became absolutely unbearable to not thrash around involuntarily was begging and pleading at some point broke down in tears bawling out loud as each orgasm hit for him for him to stop but he went on.
[03:51] Mike: Coming.
[04:00] Keith: Safe for it's for hard stop. Just so no one gets the wrong idea that I was forced in a wrong way. Okay, so she was pretending to want to stop I Guess at some point I suddenly felt lightheaded like a weird buzz and it went dark when I regained senses he had undone a few restraints and how how magnanimous which were keeping my legs raised and sprinkling some water on my face.
[04:05] Mike: Okay.
[04:18] Keith: Set me up a bit and helped me sip on a glass rested for a while and after I was feeling normal then we had sex until we both came okay so it's that the thirty third or the thirty second ah okay he says it happens at times and is nothing to worry about because there weren't any lasting effects and I was probably hyperventilating resulting in a blackout.
[04:26] Mike: Now thirty. Third.
[04:36] Keith: Which makes sense technically but I'm still a little worried is this like normal with other people too should I go see a doctor and be embarrassed like double the time help I don't know what that means be embarrassed like double the time. Um, Okay I don't even really know. Where to begin here. Um, it sounds like she was in some sort of restraining harness or device and this man was playing her vagina like a skilled fiddle player and she.
[05:10] Mike: Yes.
[05:15] Keith: Believes that every so often quite often I'm hoping she orgasms.
[05:21] Mike: And to the point where it became uncomfortable to continue not in the sense. She's describing it a little in a bit confusing terms but not in the sense that it would be uncomfortable for a man to continue after ejaculating in that it would just be sort of not what you want and kind of almost painful.
[05:37] Keith: The earth.
[05:40] Mike: Ah, she's saying that it it caused her to continue reaching Orgasm Asterisk and and she um, she's but but so so she's having something So okay, let but let's clear all the all the debris here.
[05:57] Keith: Yes.
[05:59] Mike: She's saying that orgasm numbers say 28 was a painful orgasm have you had painful orgasms Keith I think I have okay.
[06:06] Keith: I have normally it's you know when I'm having one of my marathon days where I'm just being particularly degenerate sitting at home by myself and what else am I going to do.
[06:19] Mike: Oh I was I thought you're gonna say when you had just a succession of lovely young ladies that want to pay visits. You're sort of like ah you're like like Genghis Khan just spreading your seed. Yes, okay, no, so you so yeah, you'll have it in what what? what kind of pain. Do you experience.
[06:21] Keith: Know that that too of course that goes without saying the the other the pharaoh of Egypt.
[06:36] Mike: Ah, in the when that happens.
[06:38] Keith: It's sort of it's both along like the shaft it feels like some muscle is sore although I don't know if it's actually muscle. It might be some sort of tissue sensitivity and then maybe like right at the head there might be a little bit of pain too. Ah.
[06:44] Mike: Yeah.
[06:51] Mike: I Feel like I get some pain sort of where I imagine it's inside your body but where the prostate is like there's some kind of like the muscles that spasm there might get tired or something you have that too. Okay, so.
[06:59] Keith: Um, yes, yeah I forgot that but yes that too.
[07:05] Mike: So that one could be analogous to what a woman would be describing here right? I mean so there is something plausible here that maybe like the Pc muscle contractions that coincide with orgasm right? could could become painful and uncomfortable at some point it's at least plausible here.
[07:19] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, muscle pain typically comes later you know like if you go to the gym and you overdo it on the bench press. Usually it's like 20 hours later the posorenas manifests. In fact.
[07:34] Mike: Yeah.
[07:36] Keith: Doms so-called delayed onset muscle soreness I think peaks like 48 hours after so I don't know um I have not bench pressed lately. But during my peak I could reliably do one fifty five you know.
[07:42] Mike: How much do you bench press Keith.
[07:55] Keith: 10 times or something but I I I practice bench press I was pretty good at it and I weigh around one fifty five so
[07:57] Mike: It's good. Good. Um yeah, bench pressing your own weight is excellent, outcome. Okay, so yeah I mean I think this might be a little bit different in the sense. 1 thing that made me wonder so you know there's aerobic and anaerobic. Situations muscles can be in and I actually don't know whether a an orgasm is aerobic or anaerobic like is your is your is your body sprinting. Okay maybe women are able to get there. But maybe when they have these waves of orgasms. It's aerobic right? So they're.
[08:20] Keith: Probably anaerobic. Yeah I think it's anaerobic a sudden surge. Are.
[08:34] Mike: They're just their their their muscles are just sort of contracting in some totally different pattern with pleasure just tingling over their bodies. Maybe I don't think so but maybe um, okay he had her tied up he was. It's this is not he he did not.
[08:42] Keith: It's a marathon more than a sprint.
[08:47] Keith: I'm skeptical as well.
[08:53] Mike: She says she passed out that's got to be hyper ventilation in my opinion. Yeah.
[08:54] Keith: Well, yeah, so let me read the first comment here because I think it might be illuminating this person says as others have said, there's lots of little things going on here. 1 people tend to hold their breath a bit when having an orgasm that's that's true too. People tend to clench muscles when having an orgasm 3 sexual arousal increases blood flow to genitals causing a small elevation and blood pressure and causes you to sweat so all of those things could potentially lead to lightheadedness surpassing out.
[09:21] Mike: Yeah, do you do you hold your breath during orgasm Keith.
[09:26] Keith: I Don't think I do consciously I've played with it a bit when masturbating. Ah I mean you know I don't get the belt out and you know Auto is what is it Auto Erotic asphyxiation I haven't gotten that sophisticated in my experimenting That's right.
[09:28] Mike: Oh yeah.
[09:39] Mike: It's been a long time since you did that right died did I told you that I first learned about autootic asphyxiation because some kid I'll call him Charlie on the school bus from middle school in eighth grade he was sitting from me Charlie Sit in front of me and he turns around and he says do you guys know what autooticphyciation is.
[09:43] Keith: Ah.
[09:55] Keith: A half.
[09:57] Mike: We're like no you know we were talking about video games and like no, what's that Charlie Charlie was actually very popular at the school. So I'm I'm making him sound stupid but he wasn't and he says he describes it and then I like how do you something like how do you know about this and then he says oh my mom told me yes, go on.
[10:13] Keith: No okay I think I know what happened here. Ah as fixee asian.
[10:17] Mike: I Know what happened but go on. So yeah, his mom told him because she was afraid he knew it.
[10:24] Keith: Um, there was a book. There was a book that came out around that time I thought it was Michael I thought it was it wasn't Michael Crichton I thought it might like maybe a John Grisham book it takes place in like Hong Kong or something.
[10:25] Mike: Oh yeah. 1 okay.
[10:40] Keith: And there's an auto eotic asphyxiation in it and I read it when I was in like eighth or ninth grade and it was a bestseller at the time and I'm wondering if ah, you know it it came you know that if it was contemporary then for you as well I don't know.
[10:43] Mike: Okay, maybe.
[10:50] Mike: Um, yeah, it might have been in pop culture I don't know but ah it was surprising and bracing to us the notion that his mother had told him about hanging himself while beating off and I thought my God like what.
[11:02] Keith: Right.
[11:05] Mike: What is happening in that household like Charlie's Charlie's house must be very unusual place.
[11:10] Keith: Is it is it a thing that I mean when I was that age I was masturbating a lot but I don't think I'd gotten to the like sort of more unusual ah masturbation play things. Yeah like everything was so new. You know I had to do all the normal things first.
[11:23] Mike: Right? I mean I can see it though. The fear is you know your kid nowadays I think you any casual Google search. In fact, if you search on Google people probably know this even if they haven't done it in earnest if you search like how to kill yourself on Google.
[11:39] Keith: Yeah, yes.
[11:41] Mike: Ah, as it should it says hey here's a national Helpline people should do that of course but I bet this one's similar like if you try to look up how to strangle yourself while beating off it probably pops up a thing saying hey maybe don't do that or if you're going to do it. You know have a partner there or ah, something where if you actually are strangling. It'll let go like something that can't. Sustain all your weight or etc like obvious things like that to make sure you don't kill yourself what a way to go right.
[12:05] Keith: Um, I'm checking on. Yeah I'm checking on Google right now it it just gave me a bunch of links to about what it means I'm going to ask.
[12:11] Mike: Interesting if we were a larger show. We could try to get ah a tweet storm going to Google to ask them to to save the autoerotic asphyxiators because 6 people a year die or whatever it is. It's not 0 it's not 0 some people die. Okay, so yeah, go ahead.
[12:29] Keith: I guess yeah sorry I was asking chet gbt if there was a novel in the 90 s that had autoerotic asphyxiation and yet mentions infinite jest but that's not what I'm thinking of.
[12:42] Mike: That also has a guy who put his head in a microwave and turned it on so pretty rough way to go. So yeah I have to say that I think um, this woman. Ah.
[12:44] Keith: Yeah, there well that was the David Foster Wallace nesterpiece
[12:55] Mike: Which is hyperventally I I generally think that these reports women have of zillions of orgas if you hyperv Venilate really aggressively and I've done this before because there's this thing called um interoceptive therapy you can do it yourself I didn't do it like with a therapist or anything and the reason to do it is because.
[13:07] Keith: Ok.
[13:13] Mike: It's it's the idea is basically okay, there's an uncomfortable sensation that you get in your body sometimes okay make it happen right? So then you can learn to deal with it right? if you can if you can trigger it. So let's say there are people that get um atrial valve whatever there. They're people that get like fluttering heart Occasionally yeah and but it's not dangerous in in most cases, you can get it checked out. Of course.
[13:17] Keith: Okay, okay.
[13:27] Keith: Like ah, a fibrillation.
[13:33] Mike: Well if you could make that sensation happen. You could learn to sort of that. It's not dangerous. Okay, so this is like that that one in particular, let's say there was a way to just have the feeling though I don't know but I'm not a doctor I'm not encouraging but for but hyperventilation is a way to provoke various anxiety symptoms like.
[13:36] Keith: That sounds dangerous like getting your heart and into it unbalanced state. Sure sure sure all right, right? right? yeah.
[13:53] Keith: Okay, okay, maybe the fear of like stepping onto an airplane or or something like that you can simulate by Hyperveta lining.
[13:53] Mike: Ah, lightheadedness. Um, feeling out of control bla blah blah like a lot of weird things that if yeah, exactly. So if you exactly so if you um, if you hyperventilate for like 2 minutes you'd be surprised like it's worth trying. Actually you're not going to die like that's you. You know, just getting a lot of oxygen in your blood. Ah well maybe you should check with your doctor first I guess we are a public podcast but but once you've checked with your doctor. They'll probably say no, you won't it won't kill you and there is this very valid form of therapy that it uses this lots of crazy things happen when you hyperventilate. That's the point and so and I've done this and yeah.
[14:19] Keith: Ah, yeah.
[14:27] Keith: Okay, I've never tried.
[14:32] Mike: You feel crazy and like well you haven't you for Scuba don't you sometimes do various things to ah lengthen or alter your breathing or lengthen how long you can hold your breath or think I mean because it might be similar breathe pure oxygen. Okay.
[14:41] Keith: Ah, not for Scuba with Scuba with Scuba you want to have very easy steady breathing. In fact, it's important to have your breathing be steady and not interrupted with free diving. Um, you might imagine that they would hyperventilate before they do these deep holding their breath dives but ah.
[14:50] Mike: So you'd want to do the opposite. Yeah here.
[15:01] Keith: Apparently hyperventilating doesn't help indeed hurts like it's better to be in like a relaxed state or something or at least so I've heard or read.
[15:11] Mike: I found that I'm in a master's swim group in the mornings. Ah and they will have us. Ah the the coach two days a week is I think trying out for the Olympics. So it's absurd he has us do things that we probably shouldn't be doing but he I think I think so.
[15:20] Keith: What that's impressive. Okay, and he's coaching you. That's what a life. Yeah guess I guess so.
[15:26] Mike: Ah, he's ah he's he was a collegiate and nzw champions champion swimmer and he's like 22 years old very um very impressive specimen. Yeah, it's well he needs money I think I know I know um, but he'll have us swim across the pool without breathing and i've.
[15:42] Keith: Yeah, oh interesting.
[15:44] Mike: Definitely found hyperventilating before that helps So There's certain. But anyway you can get these symptoms and I and I think that people could try this with their doctor's consent and I think that a lot of these experiences. The women have can be attributed to. Potentially hyperventilation as opposed to orgasm but this just gets back to that conversation about women are experiencing something they call an orgasm that maybe a man wouldn't call an orgasm So fine.
[16:04] Keith: Um I see was this all This was all a longwinded way of saying yeah through hyperventilating she might be getting herself into some sort of euphoric state some sort of orgasm ask state.
[16:12] Mike: Oh yeah, that's what I I think that's what this these wave quote Unquote orgasms that women claim to have that are not analogous or to to the male orgasm I Think that's what they are I think they're just hyperventilating they're in this very sort of like pleasure. There is pleasure.
[16:22] Keith: Well.
[16:29] Mike: Ah, they're with this guy or whoever woman this partner that they feel really strongly toward they're having all these sort of emotional experiences and then you hyperventilate? yeah.
[16:35] Keith: Ok, well then why can't I hyperventilate to give myself 32 orgasms did you get to 30 you you capped out at 9
[16:40] Mike: Okay, well I have done this before I so when I was much younger, no, but I did try this is this is probably equivalent to auto risk exoxiation. But with with no although again, check with your doctor risk I tried when I was a kid probably in my I don't know 18 or something beating off. And then hyperventilating and then holding my breath when I orgasmed definitely made it stronger and I remember feeling really fucked up afterward like I was going to pass out like there was some weird stuff going on to the point where I didn't really like it because I was the after of it but but that.
[17:04] Keith: Ha.
[17:17] Mike: Few seconds of orgasm was definitely heightened by putting a lot of Oxygen in my blood and then holding my breath. Um, yeah.
[17:26] Keith: Yeah I was told by someone I dated briefly that yeah, there's 2 things going on when ah, there's 2 things that could be going on when a woman asks you to choke her. The first is she might just like the sort of. Dominant aspect of you know, having a hand on her throat. Um, and then the second is she might actually like to restrict the flow of oxygen to her brain and there's sort of 2 different things there and when somebody asks you to choke them. You should figure out which one of those 2 it is because the latter. Is much more difficult and dangerous and indeed not what most people typically want like most women aren't going for some sort of asphyxiation play. They just want the dominant to play.
[18:15] Mike: I Think in that case it wouldn't be asphyxiation. It would be occluding like the Carotid artery or something like so actually decreasing blood flow to the brain. Yeah, and I should I should mention it's just immediate right? I mean if if you ah for example in alibi. Okay.
[18:19] Keith: Um, yes, yes, does that have a different effect. It must have a different effect because that yeah ah I get uncomfortable just thinking about it.
[18:31] Mike: And Alabama they just and and there was a lot of to do about this put to death a man this is sort of interesting. Actually they put it with nitrogen gas yes, and um.
[18:35] Keith: Oh with with Nitrogen or yeah and that stops that stops Oxygen from getting to his brain.
[18:43] Mike: It replaces it. It doesn't you don't have the you don't have the same sensation of smothering because the C O Two doesn't build up if you breathe in the nitrogen. So a couple points there one. Yes, once you once your body sort of just has nitrogen you pass out really quickly really quickly like surprisingly quickly like your brain.
[18:57] Keith: Okay, okay, which is more humane than the other ways of killing inmates.
[19:02] Mike: Really uses a lot of oxygen. Yeah, yeah, there Ah ah, it's a helium and Nitrogen are ways that people who want to commit suicide because they have terminal diseases will do it that is a thing so it could be humane. However, however what the reports were with this man and I totally get it.
[19:12] Keith: Okay, it's painless and quick.
[19:21] Keith: Oh no. Ah.
[19:21] Mike: He held his breath right? because well I look I it be very hard to imagine being in that situation but I get it right? He's like I can live maybe the mainal break. You know maybe I'll live in out of 30 seconds whatever so I'm not going to breathe I think I want to think in that situation that I would breathe the nitrogen just to.
[19:29] Keith: Yeah I can yeah that's heartbreaking. Yeah yeah.
[19:39] Mike: Get it over with and have it be painless but he did not and I understand that and that's that's what makes it hard is that like you can't in execution scenarios. The person's not going to comply and so you can't assume they'll do the quote unquote right thing to die peacefully um in any event. Yeah, so these so these ah yeah, these um.
[19:46] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah is dark topics today.
[19:59] Mike: Hyperventilation I think ah will have ah yeah, so okay, you're saying oh so I wanted to say there's a third, a third reason why they might want to be choke and that's because they're filming you and they want to call the police or extort money from you right? So be be wary of that one. There's there.
[20:12] Keith: Ah yes, is these evil women out there always trying to entrap men. Yes.
[20:16] Mike: There is so there this ah podcast that I've run across on Tiktok but never listened to ah it's this woman who hates very she's very misogynistic I think even she might admit that but she um, she claims that in a lot of cases women.
[20:24] Keith: There? yeah.
[20:34] Mike: Will use. They will get their husbands to ah snap or get upset at them or whatever in front of a camera and then they'll send that footage of the police to sort of like win in a breakup scenario where their kids and so forth as they claim that she makes she also she further claims.
[20:52] Keith: What's it.
[20:53] Mike: That men who have this done to them. There is an incidence of them then committing Suicide I have no evidence for this but this is just something she claims.
[20:59] Keith: Well I don't know if those are correlated I mean surely having your life ruined by a woman would increase the suicide ideation but whether it's directly correlated with the well.
[21:12] Mike: Well, it's a strategy. She's claiming that there were women who would adopt that as a strategy which is similar to what I was saying with it was what I was thinking of when I said the thing with the choking. It's far fetched to me but there are people that I've I didn't make it up. There are people that say this happens.
[21:25] Keith: I didn't I didn't watch the details of the Amber heard Johnny Depp trial but I think that was the accusation against Amber heard was that she was she had like various recordings but the argument was that they were taken out of context something something something I don't know anyway, all right? So this woman.
[21:40] Mike: Um, yeah I don't know.
[21:45] Keith: Ah, probably did not orgasm 32 times or at least not in the way that youth and I think of orgasms.
[21:54] Mike: It's it's yeah well I mean I actually I I don't know because you have described having a very high in incidence rate of PIV orgasms with your partners. So I actually mentally think of these as Keith Keith Gasms yeah
[22:04] Keith: No, no, no, no, no, no hold on I don't think I I don't think I've had a unusual amount of Pi V or orgasms I mean I've I've encountered women who can do that Sometimes it's It's just that through my general array of tricks which is mostly.
[22:15] Mike: Okay.
[22:22] Keith: Oral or digital stimulation I can if a woman is communicative or open to it or able to orgasm easily I think yeah I think I have like somewhat above average skill in I mean you know I'm 43 you know I've been around the block a couple times I think compared to like the average 20 year old and probably a bit better.
[22:36] Mike: Um, yeah, so this is a little different than what I thought I thought you I thought you were saying that there was some that your experience was that in.
[22:41] Keith: But I don't think that I'm like you know, virtuoso or anything.
[22:49] Mike: Some large majority of cases in women seem to have orgasms or something they would characterize it as an orgasm during the P I V phase of your play I see.
[22:53] Keith: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no I don't think I have some amazing grinding or or penile angle or anything that.
[23:03] Mike: Well, you know I mean my flo my thought on that would be. It's much more likely that it's there. It's an emotional thing where there you're getting them I think there are men who have that experience then that women tend to fake more with certain men than with others because the man man expects it.
[23:18] Keith: Well, there could also be yes I'm sure there are certain men that get faked with more because they're egos or maybe they feel dangerous. So the woman wants to I don't know something something. Um, but you could also imagine there's a kind of man where women feel more comfortable.
[23:22] Mike: Yes.
[23:34] Keith: And so are able to orgasm everything else being equal are able to orgasm more easily.
[23:39] Mike: Um, why why would she orgasm more if he feels more dangerous.
[23:43] Keith: Well, you can imagine her orgasm anymore if she feels more dangerous or more safe depending on this sort of trauma history of that woman. Yeah I mean it just depends sure sure I think I would.
[23:52] Mike: And it could be more and less exciting. Okay I got it? Yeah, even if she didn't have trauma. Maybe she's just into that she's into more and less sort of aggressive experiences that makes sense. Ah yeah I mean the yeah.
[24:01] Keith: I would make a loose argument that the women who enjoy various more aggressive more dominant more mean play are probably more likely than average than to have had some sort of trauma in their past. But maybe that's wrong I don't know.
[24:18] Mike: I Concur with that general view I'm not sure if there's good evidence but I've certainly heard it anecdotally right.
[24:25] Keith: Well, it's hard to it's hard to collect evidence for that study all right, let's move on. Um, let's see here all right I like this one. My boyfriend comments on Reddit porn should I be concerned. Ah.
[24:31] Mike: Um, to make sense.
[24:42] Keith: Now the details here are not that important for the discussion I want to have which is is it weird to comment on porn but we'll get to that conversation I Want to read this just because it's kind of funny. This is a correct. Yeah.
[24:50] Mike: You mean comment hang on you mean like post a comment on the porn site. Yeah, it's real weird but go on. Yeah, it's awesome I kind of like it I you will you know Keith I mean with my subreddit.
[24:57] Keith: He's like logging in he's creating an account. He's like commenting on porn across the internet. Yeah of yeah.
[25:09] Mike: RSlash curated amateur porn I which is now has 28000 members I think growing growing quickly. Um it a fair number of people comment on the porns that I post and a lot often. They think I'm the woman.
[25:09] Keith: And bravo.
[25:21] Keith: I know I know looks.
[25:26] Mike: Like you're high. You got a tight vage I'm like I'm a dude but okay, so so yeah, but but in terms of percentages. It's well under one percent of them that ever post anything and the most common thing to post is like who is that which makes better. You know makes more sense like they just want. They just want more.
[25:33] Keith: Yes, yeah, it's the same as.
[25:40] Keith: I just can't imagine well okay, all right? So this is a 29 year old woman. Her boyfriend's 27 my boyfriend's porn preferences are bbw you know what that is.
[25:53] Mike: Um, that's big, beautiful women which is an oxymoron.
[25:55] Keith: Yeah, Trap Do you know what Trap porn is I don't know I don't know what trap porn is I'm googling it right now Trap Porn videos trap I'm getting links now I'm getting links to porn hub and X video here.
[25:59] Mike: Like Crew Vaginas No I don't as a bear trap. You're stuck sometimes it's a acronym is it all caps.
[26:12] Mike: Okay, what are you seeing.
[26:14] Keith: Oh well, what? why don't you look it up yourself.
[26:19] Mike: Oh okay, you don't want me to say or ah wait What oh it's transsexual.
[26:22] Keith: No go ahead. Go ahead I I think it just means just means Trans Porn I think let hear let's let's good it. What what is trap porn. Okay, it's a term that.
[26:29] Mike: Yeah, here's it Astalfo gets railed and filled will you What does it stand for.
[26:39] Keith: Is a term that originated from the anime and Manga communities and has been used in various ways across different Contexts often referring to characters who cross-dres or are un drought androynous leading others to mistake their gender. However, the term has been widely criticized for being offensive and derogatory. Oh okay, excuse me. Particularly towards trend gender and non-binary individuals as it implies deception or trickery regarding one's own gender. Okay, all right? So All right? Let's continue all right B Bbw Trap black women with white men. So Those are the 3 things he likes his last girlfriend was thicker and black and the girlfriend before was Latina. I'm a white Cis woman with blond hair and I'm on the slimmer side I feel like I don't match his preferences I do know that people can be attracted to more than one type and porn doesn't always mirror what you want in reality is that true.
[27:19] Mike: Her.
[27:28] Mike: I think that I ah is it true. The main thing I was going to react to is I think that the I do think that guys tend to prefer porn where the guy in the porn is there like ethnicity and stuff I think that's like a real thing.
[27:29] Keith: That porn.
[27:38] Keith: Was sure but like setting that aside, if they're often watching For example, Latina Porn is that completely orthogonal to like what they want in real life I bet it at least strongly correlates.
[27:53] Mike: Um, if if if the person has a clear preference then yes yes.
[27:55] Keith: Okay, like I I kind of like watching anal porn. But I'm not like super anal obsessed in in general I don't know it feels like dominant or something.
[28:05] Mike: What is it about the anal porn that you like then huh. Ah yeah I Usually don't like it because it's more performative seeming to me.
[28:18] Keith: Well yeah, that's true I don't like that about it as as well. It's yeah you can tell they're just sort of going through the motions all right Anyway, all right.
[28:22] Mike: Yeah I like the anal porn I like the anal porn where it's a surprise and she's in pain meaning wrong hole I like that. But that's for a different reason I Just think it's kind of funny.
[28:32] Keith: Okay, that's like that's well I mean that's still like imposition dominance play.
[28:39] Mike: It's not but I just like it because it's like amusing like I would like it if something happened to the guy too. It's more like watching the 3 stooges or something. It's not I don't like it in a sexy sense I like it. It's like oh wow, that's that must have hurt that's going to leave a mark. Yeah.
[28:49] Keith: Let's see. Okay, it's like at it fine all right? So she ah she ah graced us with a few of the comments he made are you are you ready? Ok ah well she doesn't say where but.
[28:57] Mike: Yes, so these are comments he posted on Pornhub Okay, but more or less this Yeah Okay, okay, let's hear it.
[29:06] Keith: I think on porn videos somewhere. Yeah, all right? So on a non porn related post. He said that he found his car and his wife with one video I don't know what that one means all right in response to a trap post he asked where are the most popular places for trans women to live and said he wants to move there and find a wife. Okay, here's another one. He said wife material in response to another trap post in response to a bbw post. He said that he'd want to get their number and ask to make content with them content in this context is obviously porn all right? Let me let me just finish what she wrote here. We've been together for 2 years we recently had a convo where I said that my end. Goal long term is to get married. He agreed this was our only convo about marriage. Why is he repetitively thinking about other people as wife material. He never said the word wife about anything that has to do with me I listed all of the comments he made on porn subs so two out of 3 mention wife I feel that if you're in a serious relationship. It seems inappropriate to comment that over and over again. It's like you have wife searching on your mind looking to hear people's perspectives on how you'd feel in this situation is this something that is porn drivenve and deviated from reality or is it problematic all right First of all, you do see this like wife comment on porn and like thirstrap images all across the internet. So I don't necessarily think.
[30:20] Mike: Wait.
[30:21] Keith: Look There's several other things that I think excludes this man as a marriage possibility but setting those aside I don't necessarily think that him flippantly you know saying I want to wipe her up on various things means that you know he's not marriage minded Now. This man definitely has some. Ah, issues that might not make him the best partner ever. But ah.
[30:45] Mike: How so you're saying I mean what I got out of that is you read? so like ah the comments like I'm on Pornhub I Just went to porn up to a random porn sort of an odd one and I'm scrolling down and you have to scroll pretty far to get the comments and there this is more what I would expect by the way. The top comment is.
[30:59] Keith: Oh come on Mike Mike
[31:04] Mike: Guess we're taking it on faith that there's a cream pie this is good. This is like Larry David comments on porn he's like look if I don't see it. It didn't happen. We're just taking it on faith that they're actually sex at all.
[31:14] Keith: No like come on. Let's say you're let's say you're watching Tiktok and there's you know some beautiful young woman and you know you click the comments like there's going to be all kinds of people saying like oh that's perfect wife material or whatever like it's just like a common trope in response to ah. An attractive thing happening on be it porn hub or Tiktok or Reddit or wherever yeah, they're trying to they're trying to SSim they're just trying to they're just trying to I don't know it's like some white nighting thing or they're trying to tease a response I don't know why I'd like.
[31:34] Mike: Um, feels pretty simped out like okay, okay, all right? Yeah I don't So yeah, it's it.
[31:50] Keith: I Can't imagine commenting on.
[31:52] Mike: This is the problem to me. It's not his interest in porn. It's not any of that. It's that it suggests low something like maybe that maybe he should take that Iq test we took like this posting comments like that it just shows like he's an idiot because it's not.
[32:08] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[32:10] Mike: You know what? it's like it's like that Seinfeld episode where where where Elaine finds out. Her boyfriend is ah paints his face for the the New Jersey devils you seen that episode and she's like you're a face painter. It's like that. It's just like when he was already. You know, not that smart of a guy that is the point but like here you go. It's like wait a minute you're a porn commenter like what.
[32:16] Keith: Oh yeah, right? Yeah, it's like you. Yeah.
[32:28] Keith: Right? Yeah, it's not great. Okay, so all right a few things is there any comment that your partner could make on internet porn that would not ah level him down.
[32:29] Mike: I Thought all you guys all lived in your mom's basement.
[32:40] Mike: Well the one I Just read the one I just read is kind of funny because they're basically like they're I mean it's It's just trolling them which I think is kind of funny I mean something That's just yeah.
[32:49] Keith: Who's that who's that famous guy that like for for like a decade like would post like funny comments on stuff. Do you remember I can't remember it either hard if we remember we'll put it in the in the show notes.
[32:57] Mike: Yes, I forget his name? Yes, yeah yeah I mean there's some they right? So there could be I mean so cometing can be its own form of creativity. Yes, and so there I have no issue. Um I have no issue if it's.
[33:06] Keith: Art. Yes.
[33:13] Mike: Okay, of course advertising like let's say you were like ah um I have tried for the my porn subreddit posting each time and it's too much work. But when I when I would take a porn I would post hey I cross-posted it here. Okay, that's just marketing right? and it's actually effective like some people would thumbs it up or like the the actual woman would be like oh thanks.
[33:28] Keith: Um, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's that's in a different category than like while you're dick in hand you know masturbating to um, transsexual porn you.
[33:33] Mike: Um, yeah, but.
[33:43] Keith: Ah, feel the impetus to leave a comment and.
[33:46] Mike: I Think this I think this must be the same impetus that are the same impulse that people have on camsites to interact with the women my input. My impulse is always immediately to troll them to like be like hey there.
[33:58] Keith: Um, yeah years is to troll. Yes, yeah.
[34:02] Mike: Yeah, of course, there's someone I see I see someone through your curtain I think they're coming for you or whatever like say some from wacky shit to them. Ah, but but there's a lot of guys I mean the vast majority just sort of play along and they talk to them and the thing is like if you read on Cam girl problem Subreddit These are the whales. These are the people they get money out of so like they're.
[34:19] Keith: Um, oh for sure they they're they're they're broken and delusional.
[34:20] Mike: It's these are real people I Guess I like I mean I got to think this is I I think like I don't know what's going on in this particular woman situation. But I think a lot of this commenting and participating only fansing and all this stuff. This is just this set of men that you never think of that are sort of chubby. You know 23 year old. Whatever maybe Asian maybe white I'm just imagining the kind of a type.. It's kind of nerdy plays video games. Yeah, and like they're just they're not.. It's really hard for them to get with a woman because yeah, they just get excluded like on a dating app their elo Score is like negative.
[34:55] Keith: Yeah, but why are they? okay.
[34:57] Mike: You know what else have they got man like they're they're they're excluded from the the chance of them getting of to interact with a vagina short of a prostitute is basically zero I Actually don't know what happens to people like that I think I think it's rough and and ah you know one of the things. Um, my wife has pointed out to me before.
[35:08] Keith: Yeah.
[35:17] Mike: Because a lot of the conversations we have and it's more fun to talk about women that are above a certain of attractiveness bar but she's pointed out to me that it's the same thing for women that are unattractive to right? Let's say you're like a woman who's like a 3 you know you're whatever you're just not pretty wow like it's sort of similar like what are you? you just not all these things that a guy might say like oh.
[35:27] Keith: Um, yeah, okay.
[35:36] Mike: Women can this women can do that women can act so petulant and they can get all these likes dating apps are so easy for them like she would say to me you know there's definitely women who get no matches on the dating apps. Absolutely and there's actually quite a lot of them and so I think it's sort of similar and yeah, you could think what are the female behaviors there I mean they're going to be a bunch of nutty things too like ah.
[35:39] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, that don't have that experience right.
[35:55] Mike: These people were obsessed with Taylor Swift or whatever you know.
[35:57] Keith: I think there's lots of attractive women who are obsessed with Taylor Swift
[36:00] Mike: Sure but but the Modal like like whatever there's all these cultural behaviors that maybe aren't that different than commenting on porn. Yeah.
[36:06] Keith: Yeah, sure I understand the spirit of what you're saying. Yeah um, all right I don't want to talk about like the the Trans thing here. But if your partner is watching porn that substantially deviates from what you can offer. Is that reason for Concern. Let's argue by extremes here. Let's let's say they're Watching. Ah your you're you're gay and they're constantly watching heterosexual porn is that reason for concern. Okay, yeah.
[36:25] Mike: Um, yes, Bbc okay.
[36:35] Mike: Yes, if you're gay and they're constantly watching heterooporn then I would suggest particularly if it's a woman watching heteroporrn then I be a man that's just weird because it's like men usually have more fixed preferences who's at least by right? Yeah I mean I think it's clearly. Ah.
[36:44] Keith: Yeah, yeah, right, right? right? right.
[36:52] Keith: What if okay here's here's a here's maybe a more nuanced case. Let's say you have small breasts and your partner is constantly watching porn with you know, big Jugs Busty naturals. You know the various tropes there.
[36:52] Mike: Ah, red or yellow flag.
[37:08] Mike: Yeah I mean I think that would I think that would I know that a woman in that situation would be upset or it could be vice versa right? Ah, youre a youre you're It's usually going to be the first one. It's usually me the first one. Let's be real realistic. Um.
[37:14] Keith: Yeah, she could have big breasts and they they prefer you know, lean athletic bodies of course. But.
[37:26] Mike: Yeah I mean I think that look it's bothersome because I think that women are always of worried men are too but women I think more have like this kind of core neurosis that like they're going to get left right? And so yeah.
[37:39] Keith: Can you make can you make some sort of argument that um you know you have what you have to eat for dinner every day. Maybe you want to look at pictures at at something else and and that can be like innocent and tolerable.
[37:46] Mike: Yeah, they can intellectualize that yeah, it's just it's just it still bothers them like if you have the choice between revealing to your small breasted partner that you spend a lot of time looking at large breasted porn and not revealing it I would choose the second one.
[38:01] Keith: Yeah.
[38:03] Mike: Like look maybe just don't say that because yeah, unless yeah because you're not going to unless you're going to do something about it just doesn't do any good and she's definitely going to be like huh. What with what's going on here. Um, yeah, it was similar similar to with ethnicity. Ah.
[38:13] Keith: Yeah.
[38:20] Mike: Trans Non-trans any of these things they're going to be worried about it and I think you should ask yourself that question because yeah, you have to ask like why are why are you consuming this so much. Um, like are are you being fair to your partner.
[38:27] Keith: Yeah I feel like if you could look at my porn watching I probably and probably like seventy or eighty percent focuses on you know, a few obvious genres that I that I prefer but every once in a while.
[38:45] Mike: Ah.
[38:45] Keith: Ah, sort of stray into other waters and sometimes that can get me there. So I think there's like a normal amount and then there's an abnormal amount.
[38:51] Mike: Have you? yeah have you found your consumption of male kind of dominant blowjob porn to go up in the last say six months because you mentioned that like you've been thinking about that act more as we've discussed like your aversion of blowjobs and like this notion that like maybe taking control have you found that.
[39:02] Keith: Yeah, yes.
[39:10] Mike: Have you found that that has led into some more porn porn consumption or.
[39:15] Keith: Ah, deciding if like revealing anything here is exposing in a way that I don't want to I don't really care. No I mean I think I I have been watching more blowjob porn.
[39:18] Mike: Now you could say no comment. No okay.
[39:28] Mike: Um, it's awesome. Yeah, and you but the and key here. You've you've agreed with the general premise that making yourself the more dominant character is something that you think it's possible women. Enjoy.
[39:28] Keith: I'm trying to learn I'm trying to learn to like it man you know I'm I'm making a giving a good faith effort here.
[39:44] Mike: And that you might enjoy more choice something like that. There's some like opening there where you're thrusting more than just sitting back and receiving or something now.
[39:45] Keith: Yes. Correct yeah whereas before I thought blowjobs were more of like a passive receiving act that was really yeah well it depends.
[39:57] Mike: I Think they usually are now. Look I think you're just making your ultimate transition from being a twink to a real manly man.
[40:11] Keith: Ah, well I'm already I wish I had like a good comeback here I don't so let's just move on before I embarrass myself further all right? Um, let's talk about Hall passes and do you know what? that expression means.
[40:25] Mike: And it's when ah 1 or both partners agree to let the other one have 1 or more experiences extramaritally or extra relationship with out any consequences and of course there are always consequences people know.
[40:35] Keith: That's right.
[40:40] Keith: Yeah, so ah, this person ah is a 26 year old man and his fiance is a 25 year old woman. He says my fiance gave me a hall pass. My fiancee is my first so the man here has had just 1 partner and it's who he's engaged to It's created a bit of weirdness in our relationship. It hasn't necessarily been an issue for us I've learned to not get in my head about her history but she has this fear that at some point I want to experience someone else and I'd be lying if I haven't thought about it. She told me if I ever feel like I need that experience I could I could and she just doesn't want to know about it. Been considering it lately. But I can't get past the feeling that I'd be cheating on her I don't feel like it's something I need to do but I'm a guy in my mid 20 s and it's very tempting. Well sir I have good news. You're not unusual here. Um.
[41:28] Mike: What's the bad news.
[41:30] Keith: I Don't think okay I thought the first response here was was good and pretty succinctly expresses the issues all right. This is a terrible idea I can understand why your girlfriend came up with it. But the fact that it's a don't ask don't tell situation suggests that she's not actually comfortable with it instead. She feels anxious and like a lot of people when they feel anxious. She's making some bad decisions as to a way to settle that anxiety. Maybe she should hyperventilate to practice Anyway, think about it if you if you go out and use this hall pass but you're not supposed to tell her you did then you have the secret that you're keeping from her and that will likely weigh on you Meanwhile if she thinks you might be using it. This is going to create additional anxiety for her.
[41:54] Mike: Yes.
[42:08] Keith: Especially if you go out of town for some reason or you unexpectedly stay late at school or work or whatever or she finds out that you did use it and realizes she didn't actually want you to do it and so that creates issues of jealousy dispointment or resentment. In other words I can see a lot of ways that this goes badly for both of you in very few scenarios in which this is something healthy and enjoyable for your relationship. Yeah I think he said it basically um now let's say you are setting aside how she feels for a moment and you're just trying to self Maximize. Um.
[42:29] Mike: I Think yeah, go ahead.
[42:40] Mike: Ah.
[42:43] Keith: He said some things that ah imply that his mental state after committing such an act might not be great and he might be racked with Jealousy and feelings of guilt and so maybe for this particular man he shouldn't do this but I can imagine a man for whom going out and um tasting some other fruit might actually. Positive in some way in the long run.
[43:05] Mike: Um, yeah I mean I think the the challenge I think I see about this. Okay, there are a couple things one is that I think it'd probably be. It's probably better for women to just come to terms with the reality that men want to have sex with other women.
[43:21] Keith: Okay.
[43:23] Mike: Like have a base desire and need to do that and that's what's beat That's that's an element of what's behind porn and so forth like they're just men have like a a wandering eye or whatever and it it. It turns us on sexually It's part of the fun of our lives. Um, so so so porn I think that a woman. You can pretend like you're going to tell a guy not to do it but he will ah you can go up a level from that maybe to something like camirls where there could be a relationship Ah I mean it's annoying if a guy's throwing tokens at the cam girl because it's just wasting money but like I don't know there's there's a you know there's a there's another level there. And then you could go all the way to something like the star Trek hollodeck let's imagine a virtual reality situation where you could have sex with a virtually reality person and then there's some Android that comes in cleans up all the spoge afterward. Ah, from the room and the next person can use it or something maybe you own your own holidayck doesn't matter I think all of these are behaviors that I think realistically like a guy would want to do and it's just sort of Tricky. They're basically all forms of masturbation. The issue I have here that I don't think he addresses at all is.
[44:22] Keith: Ah.
[44:36] Mike: There's another person involved right? It's not just him his partner. It's There's this other person and that's where I think I would get blocked. Okay, so if you're going to go to a prostitute. Okay, but then you take there's risks. There's like real things about going to a prostitute and also I think you'd have to ask? well.
[44:39] Keith: Well.
[44:52] Mike: Most I think most men go to prostitutes because they don't have access to a willing partner I think that's like the truth of it guys aren't just like or they want such variety that they don't want to be with a partner but I think it's usually even married men I think it's like a dead bedroom where they wind up with a prostitute. Yeah.
[45:05] Keith: Um, yeah, we've talked about this a bit but it's been a long time ago. But yeah when I was dating ah somebody in the past. Um she was sort of Polly E and M friendly and.
[45:16] Mike: Who.
[45:20] Keith: We used to sort of have this debate about whether it was even realistic for a man. So all right? a woman who's Pauly gets on tinder and says ah I'm married or in our case, you know she had a boyfriend um but you know she's interested in. You know.
[45:34] Mike: Yeah, um.
[45:39] Keith: Hookups or you know in short term relationships for fun like almost every man who would swipe on her generally is still going to swipe yes like just because she's not available for a long term dating relationship doesn't lower her ah the amount of interest in her. Yeah, a lot of men would be like this is great.
[45:46] Mike: Yes.
[45:52] Mike: Could be better. Yeah, because yes.
[45:58] Keith: Um, and then for a man if I go on fucking tinder and I say I have a girlfriend I'm just looking for something fun but like are you kidding me like I don't I'm a decent looking guy I barely get any matches anyway and when I do it's it's you know, like pulling teeth to get anyone to go on a date.
[46:12] Mike: Um, right right.
[46:16] Keith: If I went on there and said that I have a girlfriend like there's just no way. So then it was like well um, and then she would say like well you know there there are various kink communities and ah you know websites for but like then it's like okay well now I'm getting a woman who's like minus four from me.
[46:24] Mike: Yes.
[46:32] Keith: Right? because you know the the amount of women who are interested in that versus the amount of men is like 4 orders of magnitude and so you know so then it's like okay well I could go on these apps and lie to the women. Sure.
[46:41] Mike: And she has a lot of she's Goingnna have a lot of mileage on her too. If you want to call it that I mean it's not it. It has the similar problems to a porn star prostitute. Whatever I mean you like there's sti things you can resolve those things in various ways. But it's just more complicated. It's not like somebody who has a body count of 5 Yeah.
[46:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah I don't mind the mileage issue as much as much as you do, but I can see that's a potential problem.
[47:02] Mike: You could imagine the man but being bothered by you could imagine his partner being bothered by it's you know, but let's just say the man. It's you're you're saying things that kind of rhyme with that to me somebody who's more promiscuous somebody who is less attractive. Well okay, fine, forget about promiscuous less attractive these things tend to go together. They're lower value because.
[47:08] Keith: Um, right.
[47:21] Mike: You know, super attractive if a super attractive woman was in some sort of kink community that was Pauly I mean which I hope she doesn't have a day job because she's can be very busy if you know what I mean like it's not as common. So yeah.
[47:30] Keith: Um, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's she's like yeah everyone would be interested. Yeah, so.
[47:38] Mike: And it's not and let me just say 1 more thing. It's not common because that's not the normal quote unquote normal baseline female goal right? Women don't generally want to be part of some sort of weird commune of sex right? generally and so if they have that power.
[47:50] Keith: Right.
[47:54] Mike: That you get out of being attractive and so on and so forth. They're going to use it to kind of get a situation that's more fitting to what they want typically.
[47:58] Keith: Yeah, well and at least for B I imagine that some of the lure of having an extra relationship relationship is yeah, you get like the seduction and like that's the sort of chemicals you get from a new partner.
[48:14] Mike: Um, sure.
[48:17] Keith: There's all kinds of problems there like you're probably going to especially like once you've had sex with this new partner. You're probably going to prefer them for a while and I don't know how people work through that. But yeah, you know like.
[48:27] Mike: You're getting it. You're getting it like actually the the key thing I wanted to say with the third person which is it's it's it's sort of a sterile interaction right? Yeah yeah.
[48:31] Keith: Well, it's either sterile and not that compelling or it's super compelling and now you have a problem and I don't know how you like go down the middle the middle there and you'll hear people in like various poly communities and say like no, it's not like that like there is no jealousy. And I'm like okay but is there I mean it's a good thing. There's no jealousy because I think like biochemically, you're going to be hyper bonded to this new person that you're sleeping with um and not to mention just like the newness of like having conversations with a new person and and that kind of stuff. So Anyway, this we're we're getting off the trip.
[48:58] Mike: Right? you.
[49:06] Mike: Right? And and and I mean well no, but it's it's it's it's important because it's like the the so you have you can find a poly community that's going to be complicated by the way because this guy's.
[49:09] Keith: Off track here a little bit but.
[49:21] Mike: Partner will have to be involved in that they're not going to just take his word for it that he's in this relationship where he has this hall pass right? So she now has to be directly involved if not if not, he's going to have trouble getting into a poly community because they're not going to believe in because a lot of guys. It's it's sort of like a nudist colonies or whatever. They're not a lot of women.
[49:29] Keith: Right.
[49:38] Mike: Ah, not of attractive women I mean it's just or or sex clubs. They don't let single men in for a reason. Um, and then so then it's it's yeah he might become there. Yeah, like you said there, there's there's he doesn't find it that compelling So it's Hy sterile he finds it super compelling and now he's got a problem because he's thinking about this new woman all the time.
[49:39] Keith: Yeah.
[49:57] Mike: But then there's also the experience This woman has basically she's getting to be in this kind of fake relationship with this dude who's married or in relationship or whatever and that doesn't end that well I mean it could end with a stalker. It could end with like ah self-harm. It could end with ah.
[50:10] Keith: Right.
[50:17] Mike: Ah, yeah, lots of well stalkeralker is a good 1 right? Just lots of weird things could happen. You're you're now sort of back in high school or college where you know Stacy's mad because you went out with their friend and you know, but it's more serious maybe because they're adults and if he's not totally honest with everybody which he probably wouldn't be now you have this third person who.
[50:20] Keith: Um, yeah.
[50:28] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah.
[50:37] Mike: Has really valid grievances. Um and is it really fair to him to to do that to his wife to basically make it So there's this and and yeah and like in many cases, the woman he finds if it might be unstable right? because a woman who's willing to.
[50:45] Keith: Yeah.
[50:53] Mike: Even if he tells her the truth. Well, it's like you have to ask yourself what kind of why why is she saying yes to this right? if he lies to her. Well now she's been lied to and so anyone's unstable if they've been lied to I mean I would be too I'd be pissed.
[50:59] Keith: Um, yeah I I used to try to make the argument. Um that the the harm minimizing strategy would be. To lie to the third person and basically time box it on like 1 or 2 dates and you know you're going to be a gentleman. You're going to take them out to nice meals. You're going to be kind to them. Um, but ah at the end you could even like tell them maybe that would be the most ethical thing you could be like look.
[51:18] Mike: Um.
[51:34] Keith: I'm really sorry, but ah ah I'm engaged and ah this was all just a selfish ruse on my part. Um I mean look it's not great. Okay, like ah.
[51:47] Mike: Yikes am I and my wife's in on it. So haha yikes.
[51:51] Keith: Yeah, and my wife knows so like yeah you can go ahead or my fiance is in on it. You can. Yeah you can go ahead and and talk to her about it and I'm really sorry if if um, your feelings are hurt by this but like all of and and look that is awful and ah is sort of unethical but like. If you want to have a realistic chance of um, you know the the man in a hall pass situation being able to go out and like find available sex like I Really don't know a way to do it. Ah that gets like an actual compelling partner. Um, and so.
[52:23] Mike: Well I think the other option is the sterile thing. So basically you could go on seeking arrangement or one of these platforms find a woman where you say look I'm married. Yeah I married and and maybe and I actually I actually think it's likely.
[52:27] Keith: Sure sure Yeah, you could throw money at the problem you can throw money at the problem.
[52:38] Mike: More than possible I think it's likely that on something like seeking arrangement. You could find somebody where it's not that sterile where you could tell her. It's hard when it's this situation I think the much more common is the dead bedroom situation where the guys and so she's like look he's married but not really in a relationship So then she might kind of get into it. You know and and.
[52:48] Keith: Yeah.
[52:56] Mike: Feel something for you. But it's but everything's upfront and it's going to be more sterile right? And so I think I think that's probably the harm. The biggest harm reducing way to do it I'm not sure you said you said you used to think lying to the third party was the most harm reducing I'm curious if like that's you have another or you just think.
[53:03] Keith: Yeah.
[53:08] Keith: Oh I think the most harm I think the most harm reducing now is just for the man to like deal with his sexual frustration I think I think most polly stuff is ah unlikely to work in the long term.
[53:16] Mike: Wow. You think hang on you think that let's say you take a a sixty year old man 55 year old man. Whatever he he works out regularly. He's in good shape. He he's still sexually functional. He's married they have not had sex in 3 years you think the best option for him is to. You? Okay, let's and let's say for whatever reason he doesn't want to get divorce. He doesn't want to like deal with the issue upfront I know that's the best option. It's just to deal with it. Yeah, you think it's better for him just to bottle it up than to get on like seeking arrangement or something assuming he can afford it I'm not sure that's right I'm not sure I agree with you.
[53:41] Keith: Yeah, maybe there's kids or whatever.
[53:51] Keith: Um, yeah, it depends I mean that does ah describe a lot of the men on seeking arrangement which is like they're like look for the health of my marriage I need to do this.
[53:57] Mike: I'm not. You might be right? Actually I Just think like I Yeah okay. Yeah,, that's right and they've found that the botling up thing just creates like rage and so there's just like Conversations. Don't go well and yeah resentment sure I'm not sure I've I've I've I've thought of.
[54:09] Keith: Um, yeah, and resentment. Yeah, yeah, yeah I don't know.
[54:20] Mike: <unk>ve thought of seeking arrangement as like an interesting escape valve for that for society. So it's so I mean it's illegal technically or like they they chase them around legally but like it isn't hasn't been shut down which you know maybe there's some congressmen on there. Um, okay, but but but there have been sites like that. Um, what was the bat.
[54:31] Keith: They're hosted offshore.
[54:35] Keith: That have been shuttown that wasn't there like Ashley Ashley Madison and and I don't remember.
[54:39] Mike: Backpage comes to mind that like got replaced the entire site that one may still exist but they've had ones that got raided by the and they were like their sites changed over to just the department of justice logo I remember that um it's it was frustrating because I couldn't find my whores.
[54:52] Keith: They pop they publish the user name list. Yeah so tough time for everybody. Um, alright, let's do 1 more before we wrap up here. We haven't done our ah scattertle scatter scat to.
[54:57] Mike: My my typical and I'm just kidding Probably yeah was the yeah.
[55:10] Keith: Logical sc to logical how how do you say that word. Yeah, the segment for a while all right boyfriend got mad because I farted during anal it happened last week and was only our second time doing anal. Ah he finished in my bum and pulled out I was on all fours and he was sitting behind me fingering my pussy to get me off all of a sudden.
[55:13] Mike: Scatology maybe Scott a logical. Yeah um, during anal. Oh oh.
[55:28] Mike: Ah, it's just not 1
[55:30] Keith: Let out the longest noisiest fart of my life from all of the air buildup he stopped getting me off and kind of freaked out. He was like what the fuck that's disgusting can't you hold it I was shocked in the moment I was too stunned to defend myself. So I just said sorry but like what the fuck I'm completely bewildered I could tell him he should expect that sort of thing during anal but also seems like.
[55:32] Mike: Yeah.
[55:50] Keith: If he got mad about that then he's already a lost cause I don't know what to do I'm thinking I shouldn't do anal but I actually like it a lot and I don't want to stop advice. Also I would have thought that most guys finding farting after anal to be no big deal or maybe even like it is that true. No that is not true I think that.
[56:06] Mike: Well yeah, for sure, not true, right.
[56:07] Keith: Farting generally out of your I agree with both parties here like I understand why she's sort of offended and think he's being immature about like the physics of the situation. But also if I'm like down there. Um.
[56:26] Keith: Fingering her ah post nut and and you know doing my best and then you know she rips a fart. Um I I can't imagine I would be thrilled with it I Certainly wouldn't be turned on as she seems to hope might have been this.
[56:27] Mike: Is it.
[56:44] Mike: Isn't it sort of an unforced error though because I mean you basically have this like loaded gun pointed at your face. She's on. She's she still was on her hands and knees I think I feel like I feel like in these situations women will often not always but often and defer.
[56:44] Keith: Ah case.
[56:52] Keith: Unclear, but but but for the sake of the story. Sure.
[57:00] Mike: To the man kind of orchestrating what's happening and so he could easily have orchestrated this so that she went to the bathroom and sort of settled the score as it were instead. He did this and she's thinking So I actually think I agree with her more that he's I hear you that he's not pleased about it but he loaded cocked the gun and played the Russian roulette.
[57:07] Keith: O.
[57:15] Keith: He sort of asked for it. Yeah.
[57:20] Mike: And there and the thing about it is I from having ah defecated after being constipated I know that you can and this must be much more challenging to maintain to maintain good closure Good good rectal seizure.
[57:29] Keith: Profound.
[57:36] Keith: Um, yeah, after you've been after you've been gaped for the last ten minutes or whatever.
[57:39] Mike: Right? exactly? So I don't think I actually think it would be physically out of her control now. Yes, she could have said hey I I have to go to the bathroom now. But I think in a lot of situations women just saying well if he this is is that's his fetish like I don't know and she she appeared to think that.
[57:46] Keith: Yeah.
[57:52] Keith: Um, don't you think you would be a little rich. Don't you think it would be a little risky to like let loose a huge fart right? after anal like how do you know? it's going to be just a fart.
[58:01] Mike: Um, she didn't let loose the fart it. It came out. There was no way to control it right? I mean there would have been no way to control it. She the no, we just went through this you can't pinch after you've had something.
[58:08] Keith: Oh come on. You can always pinch.
[58:16] Keith: Okay, okay ice. Okay, perhaps not but you can still feel that it's coming I think.
[58:17] Mike: Relatively large rammed up in there for for 5 minutes or 10 minutes yeah maybe I mean this reminds me of like the you know when you're running you. You do a long distance running Keith you know, very well that like sometimes you'll be running along and you you're not totally sure if it's an emergency or not and I'm sure you've every runner has had this thing where it it was an emergency and you thought it wasn't like you know it's it's not 100%
[58:35] Keith: Ah, yes, yeah, my sister and I had a ah yeah, confessional moment to each other I think last year when we both went through our.
[58:44] Mike: Reliable. You're sort of um you know.
[58:53] Keith: Situations where we were running and had a ah emergency mine was in in Monaco and I had to find a restroom fortunately in Monaco which is a very rich country. They have public restrooms unlike California where they're basically impossible to find.
[58:55] Mike: Yeah.
[59:06] Mike: That's good. Well in California it's considered part of the culture just a poop on the sidewalk. So it's no problem. Um, yeah I also think I also think the sequencing here is weird i.
[59:14] Keith: It's that's true I could have just dropped dro and nobody would have bat it an I um.
[59:23] Mike: Do not think even in my younger days when I had anal adventures I do not think I would have sequenced oral on the woman after Penetrative anal on her I don't think I ever would have done that same thing but same thing like if you're gonna do anal I think it should be the final act. Yeah, like don't yeah, don't don't don't.
[59:30] Keith: No, no, no he I think he was I think he was with his fingers. Although.
[59:40] Keith: I agree.
[59:43] Mike: Plan anything after the anal. So again, that's sort of his fault. He's sequencing wrong. He should have said look baby if you want to get off. Let's get the vibrator now or whatever let's get you off? yeah.
[59:50] Keith: I mean Mike Mike I understand that his reaction is unfair and that she couldn't control it and because of the physics of the situation. It was bound to happen. But I don't think it's like unreasonable like he probably shouldn't have said what the fuck that's disgusting.
[59:59] Mike: Um.
[01:00:09] Keith: But I think it's reasonable for him to think what the fuck that's disgusting.
[01:00:13] Mike: Yeah, he just blame himself but sure sure of course that's going to be the immediate reaction I mean if somebody shits on you, You're not or of semens and shits at the same time on you, You're going to be bummed out of course. Well probably that's probably what happened.
[01:00:19] Keith: Yeah, yeah, let's argue by extremes here. Yeah, exactly all right I think we got to the what Jesus.
[01:00:28] Mike: There's one other point I would make well she probably Shat a little but the the point I would make is also it's possible. It didn't smell so bad because I mean he was jamming the air up there. So maybe maybe it actually wasn't that bad. You know, but.
[01:00:35] Keith: Oh that's true. My farts are largely odorless as I've mentioned before so it's not a problem for me. Regardless.
[01:00:43] Mike: There is a thing where different people can smell different things so you'd have to do a pretty wide ranging smell test to be sure of that.
[01:00:53] Keith: Um, can you remember me farting in your presence.
[01:00:55] Mike: Yeah, know one time you blew your nose and it got on me though it was really gross and it was rough.
[01:01:00] Keith: Ah, sorry about that maybe is doing it on purpose all right. That'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary I ah need to close this trap born videos link I opened it in a.
[01:01:09] Mike: M.
[01:01:14] Keith: Non-incognito browser. So now every time I go to fucking porn hub. It's gonna God Damn it all right? This is not I hate this.
[01:01:19] Mike: That's my fetish. My fetish is other people being forced to watch porn. They don't like um.
[01:01:25] Keith: You can send us feedback or questions to y um m mvpod at Gmail.com that's ymmvpod at gil.com if you don't want us to use your question on the air. Let us know and if you give us feedback. We pay $10 for any and all feedback doesn't even have to be good feedback. In fact, bad feedback or negative feedback is more useful because it's more actionable. Ah, so yeah, just give us your venmo or cash up or whatever. Thanks for? Ah, thanks for taking the time to listen to our show here and we look forward to having you next week on your mileage may vary.