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Episode 157: Orgasms Of Our Youth, Male Masturbator Reviews, Camgirl Pasts, Clit Sucking, Elizabethan Dirty Talk, Nonbinary Lineage

Team YMMV | 2-23-2024 | 1:02:28

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That glow I have is the good feeling from being told by Ally, in no uncertain terms, that my orgasms are surely stronger than hers, and perhaps stronger than all women's. "Why else would men pursue sex so much more than women," she says. "It must be better for you guys."

Amen to that, and thanks to Ally we also learned that the products of teenage masturbation also may be more memorable for men than for women.

Next, we take a look at some reviews of male pleasure devices from Amazon, and wondered how long it would be before, paired with the metaverse, men could live in a sexual holodeck.

And, do women really want a man to "suck" on their clit? This seems like something that might be too aggressive for the typical lady.

Which reminds me, what explains the relative popularity of sex podcasts which just reinforce the standard cultural narratives? I know, you're probably thinking that the standard narrative is something out of the 1950s, complete with tradwives and obligation sex. But that's not the modern world. Today, humans without discernible gender are normalized. There's nothing wrong with treating people well, but it's a shame when the net result is to muddle life for those of us (the vast majority) who do fit into the traditional paradigm. Little surprise, then, that so many would rather play Fortnite or scroll Instagram Reels than sex one another.

What a world it would be if men and women alike listened to Your Mileage May Vary, to learn how their sex parts are supposed to work, and to discern an orgasm from hyperventilation. Do you really want to leave such important matters to Alex Cooper and her minions? Presumably not. So, if you're reading this, like and subscribe and share YMMV. It's one of the few things you can do that genuinely might save humanity from itself.

Here's the male masturbator product we discussed early in the episode:

https://ymmv.me/157/masturbator

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/157/teacher

https://ymmv.me/157/nipples

https://ymmv.me/157/elizabethan

https://ymmv.me/157/orgasm

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith on today's show we're going to talk about an unusual cunny linus technique an odd threesome did I pronounce that wrong.
  • [00:14] Mike: Kind of linus.
  • [00:15] Ally: And.
  • [00:17] Keith: Think I did all right I tried out I'll I'll try again later an odd threes of request a man who can't bring his wife to orgasm and more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike Hi Mike
  • [00:27] Mike: I'm the I'm the man who won't bring his wife to orgasm. It's different I can I just won't no.
  • [00:28] Keith: All right? Yeah, it's different than can't and today we have a longtime friend of the pod allie back on the show. Welcome back Allie.
  • [00:36] Ally: Hello Mike like Bartleby would prefer not to bring his wife do like bartleby. The scrivener is like I would prefer not to about all job tasks. It's a Herman Melville story this is really upping the listenership of this podcast.
  • [00:41] Keith: Right.
  • [00:41] Mike: Wait. What.
  • [00:48] Mike: Ah I see Yes, Yes, yes, no very much. So.
  • [00:51] Keith: Knows to highbrow. Um, so at some point in our last episode we were talking about men who write reviews for masturbation toys and.
  • [01:05] Mike: Yeah, because I think it's similar to men who um men who comment on porn. It's like the same demographic generally.
  • [01:13] Keith: I Think it's even more degenerate but sure because because here you have to have bought and ordered a physical masturbatory aid which I feel like is a step beyond ah masturbating to porn on the internet.
  • [01:25] Mike: This is rough I mean everybody applauds women when they buy a vibrator and then a guy gets one of these little dick ticklers and just you know Allie have you known a man that had one of these things. Okay.
  • [01:35] Keith: Ah.
  • [01:35] Ally: No, and it looks so industrial. It looks like a Dyson Attachment it has like the cutaway diagram showing you like internal gears and no, it's like.
  • [01:43] Mike: It doesn't just look like your body to you? No, it's not like the female appendage you can change the color.
  • [01:49] Keith: Um, I mean the marketing material here is wild. It has 7 rotating and thrusting modes. It has ah 150 rotations per minute or 300 thrusts a minute I don't.
  • [01:52] Ally: Bright Yellow and plastic.
  • [02:07] Keith: Know what the gap there is ah did you did you see this bit about the noise it it shows how much um, it's they call it precipitation noise and I don't know why they didn't say rain probably because it's a chinese company and then it shows that's 30 decibels and then vehicle noise is seventy decibels but this thing is only fifty decibels
  • [02:07] Mike: Um, 300 thrusts a minute god damn.
  • [02:26] Keith: So it's less noise than similar toys. They claim.
  • [02:29] Mike: That makes sense because you don't I mean a guy does not want people to know he's using something like this I assume I've never I've never like met or encountered any man who ever said? Oh yeah I use one of these things. Um, which is notable because this thing has 20
  • [02:36] Keith: Um I I.
  • [02:46] Mike: 2000 reviews but there's a lot of these products. So like this thing obviously is sold quite a few.
  • [02:49] Keith: It has like a suction cup mount so that you can the the picture they show have one if you guys could see this one where it's mounted to the bathroom wall next to the shower that would make sense. There's one where it's mounted to a bedside table.
  • [03:05] Ally: And Center console.
  • [03:09] Keith: But yeah that the center council of the automobile is that one is a little surprising I don't.
  • [03:14] Ally: People are using it in traffic and I guess then just like sticking it on the console when they're done does it have sucking up back.
  • [03:20] Mike: I think they're just I think they're just showing showing different cut surfaces that it can suction on I guess if I were giving 1 recommendation like if they want the most bizarre they could show it like suction cupped onto like a tombstone in a cemetery or something like.
  • [03:35] Keith: I don't why is it vertical. How would you fuck this thing vertically the way that they have it deployed in 2 of the 3 marketing shots.
  • [03:36] Ally: Ah, but.
  • [03:37] Mike: Like what.
  • [03:42] Mike: It would be hard because it is sort of it looks to be a cylinder maybe a foot or maybe eight nine inches in length and and somewhat larger than the diameter of a penis. So yeah I would be it would kind of sticking up. It doesn't make sense what you would do you'd have to be floating above it to use it properly.
  • [03:49] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Um, you'd be doing pushups over it or something. Yeah.
  • [04:01] Mike: Something like that. Yeah, although that is sort of what we do with the female body So that's kind of our the video usually the videos on these things are just um I did click it. You probably heard that. Ah yeah I mean it's yeah.
  • [04:02] Ally: Your own um video did you did you like any other could yeah.
  • [04:20] Ally: Yeah, 1 click breakout mode.
  • [04:20] Mike: Pretty tense music there here's what I want to say about these devices. Um I think that if you pair I have some interest in this device because I think that if you pair this with Vr a Vr headset I have a suspicion that you might. There's some nirvana you might reach. Where basically you're just sitting there with this thing on your Cock. You don't have to do anything and you're then just getting the porn piped in and I think it might I think there's some thing there that might effectively replace female companionship for men.
  • [04:45] Keith: I Don't know.
  • [04:53] Keith: I Don't know I think I would the I would want the force feedback to be synced with whatever content I was consuming.
  • [05:04] Mike: Oh they could easily do that. In fact I know I happen to know that on the Vr ah ah porn things they have that they they have like ah porn videos that say at least they they sync with sex toys. Well presumably somebody's some poor.
  • [05:13] Keith: How is there a protocol.
  • [05:20] Mike: Really unfortunate person in like China has had to um, like take it and do timestamps of like oh this is when it goes up this when it goes down that sucks. Yeah.
  • [05:25] Keith: Yeah, right? That's what I'm imagining. Ah.
  • [05:29] Ally: If you spoke there's more pictures of suggested mounting locations and 1 of them is like in front of your stove top and then one with like on screen like the sliding glass door of your porch. No.
  • [05:43] Mike: No tombstones though.
  • [05:45] Keith: I Mean maybe keep up to keep scrolling I'm considering buying this just because I'm curious. The red one is a dollar more expensive.
  • [05:56] Mike: Um, yeah, 1 is just on the floor of like a wellappointed living room just attached to the floor strange I don't I think they're just having fun there.
  • [06:02] Ally: Um, um, what was there a breathe. Nice.
  • [06:05] Keith: I Think they're their marketing team is is still working out the kinks here. Ok yeah, all right.
  • [06:14] Mike: Okay, but we were talking about the reviews right? So I last week said that it was the 3 star reviews that were the funniest but I I changed my mind it was. It's really the one star reviews that funny. Maybe that's not the right word but these are these are people who are dedicated ah cock teaser.
  • [06:16] Ally: Um, was.
  • [06:31] Mike: Users and 1 wonders why they're posting this stuff I mean the 5 star ones they could be fake. They could be the company itself and you can understand. But for example, this person says so this one says mediocre suction power battery stayed maxed 15 to 20 minutes which seems plenty long to me and it stopped working after 3 uses.
  • [06:47] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [06:50] Mike: I Wanted to return it. But for hygienic reasons I'm worried the company might just resell it again to some other fool like me. Ah, so someone said yeah, ah.
  • [06:56] Ally: 2
  • [06:56] Keith: Oh well, that's thoughtful and I don't I I presume the company would just throw it in the trash and manufacture another one the margin on these is probably enormous. Um.
  • [07:06] Mike: Yes, somebody said the sleeve is too short. This would not be a problem presumably for you Keith but and not enough grip. You can can't speed it up or down only go to its presets. The sensation is mild and hardly stimulating at all. It's not waterproof enough or even though the ad said it was garbage. Don't bother.
  • [07:13] Keith: Ah ha ha.
  • [07:25] Keith: Huh.
  • [07:25] Mike: The first one we got was incomplete and didn't work properly the second one died after a week I mean this? Yeah maybe it's a actually that ah that that third one the ah the purchaser appears to be a woman named Shana Shauna um
  • [07:30] Ally: Um, what is this? We is like multiple people the first one we got.
  • [07:31] Keith: Incomplete.
  • [07:38] Ally: Who.
  • [07:44] Mike: Yeah I mean it's just these people write these but there's there's very like complicated things. You know a vibrator actually works faster getting actually stroked by something is intriguing sigh it was too good to be true use. It probably 8 times in twelve days and it just seized up the gears are plastic for the amount of torque this thing puts up. It's too much for that cheap plastic motor.
  • [07:55] Keith: He seized up.
  • [07:57] Ally: Um I Filipina very.
  • [08:03] Mike: Talked with Amazon about returning I mean what kind of conversation. Do you think they had with Amazon the version like can you just send me a yeah like can you send me a picture of you using the product they're like all right. This is my cock.
  • [08:16] Ally: It's too strong just destroyed the time.
  • [08:18] Mike: Do you think there's like a special department at Amazon that deals with this kind of product issue.
  • [08:20] Keith: I Don't know. No, you'd still get the offshore customer support and they would I presume be mildly scandalized that such a product even exists. But I'm not sure.
  • [08:21] Ally: Now this. Now.
  • [08:31] Mike: Right? Yeah, so I mean there's a series of things and yeah, these are people that put real effort into their sort of thought processes around the quality of these toys and stuff like that.
  • [08:40] Keith: So maybe I don't want to buy this one this one sounds like it might I mean it does have a 4 point 3 stars with 2675 ratings
  • [08:48] Mike: Right? I think these are the the people were disappointed I'm doubting that you would use it so extensively that you would burn it out after twelve days like this person did not positive.
  • [08:58] Ally: Um, yeah.
  • [08:59] Keith: Ah, but I I mean I'm intellectually curious but I don't really want to buy this on my Amazon account and I don't know what things it's going to recommend to me after I buy it.
  • [09:11] Mike: Um, why you're I'm I'm looking for reviews of female sex toys just just out of curiosity to see if they have the same level of precision and complaint about plastic motors and the like and I'm actually not finding any reviews for the female ones.
  • [09:18] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [09:18] Ally: Um, o.
  • [09:21] Keith: Yeah, oh come on just just search dildo. Yeah, it's too late. It's done. Wow this 1 looks really real.
  • [09:27] Mike: Interesting I know I'm looking off to do some more research search dildo you don't you don't want to because you don't want that in your Amazon account right? You search dildo already. Ah, you're right? Those have reviews how could a dildo not work.
  • [09:33] Ally: Um.
  • [09:41] Keith: Um, okay, and a 3 star.
  • [09:46] Mike: Like it. Ah it broke in half inside my vagina and um.
  • [09:51] Keith: Ah, now I don't know the one that I'm on something that it comes with a remote control and I guess the remote doesn't work.
  • [09:56] Ally: There are some that have reviews. There's one this is works great hover when I chi when I chair charged one of the prongs on the charger melted on the second.
  • [10:06] Keith: Yeah.
  • [10:08] Mike: Um, this one says that the dildo was not beginner friendly.
  • [10:10] Ally: This one says no parrying pouch and not five inches
  • [10:19] Mike: It's good. So there are women that do this too. Although I immediately wonder if these reviews are are gay men or just men who've bought the dildos complaining I'm not sure.
  • [10:20] Keith: Um, why would you buy a a five inch dildo
  • [10:25] Ally: Um, yeah I don't know.
  • [10:27] Keith: Oh yeah.
  • [10:33] Ally: I bought it from a partner because I saw good reviews but when my partner used it. It looked more had more harder to get organisms. Ah.
  • [10:41] Mike: Ah.
  • [10:42] Keith: Yeah I do I have noticed that some of these review writers seem to not be native English speakers. Ah it just well I don't know it just seems odd.
  • [10:49] Mike: Yes, do you think they're fake.
  • [10:57] Ally: There's one where all the 3 star reviews are saying how loud it is. Yeah.
  • [10:58] Keith: That I. People 3 homes away can hear.
  • [11:04] Mike: I mean I have a review here from a guy of a dildo. He says too big and rough didn't stay hard but kept bending which could be a review of Keith but this but this guy's got his picture on here. Yeah yeah.
  • [11:10] Keith: What wow second second dick joke and we're 12 minutes in here. Good job Mike who to going for a beginner's record here.
  • [11:13] Ally: Please.
  • [11:21] Ally: The.
  • [11:23] Mike: He's got his picture on that review too. It's like man like I don't I don't know if you want to right.
  • [11:27] Keith: He stands by his words man, he's you know, upstanding fellow all right, let's move on. Um, if you ok, let me just read what this person says this is a teacher with a cam girl past. And became a cam model at the age of 18 lasted about half a year felt drained and disrespected blah blah blah blah blah. It's been five years since I'm exploring different career options I've become curious about working as a special education itinerant teacher through an agency.
  • [11:42] Mike: Ah.
  • [11:54] Mike: Wow.
  • [11:57] Keith: Take me about 4 years to get masters and license but would it be even possible for me to be employed the camming website sent me a ten ninety Nine I paid my taxes on it. The company name shows up as mfcxy. Nothing was tied to my camming account other than my social security. So look different gotten rid of all body modifications if I got the license. It would be 8 years since camming considering teachers must be in high moral standing. Can I be rejected from the job after a background check my guess there is no it would be illegal to reject her for that reason.
  • [12:32] Mike: You think I mean there's this set of ah people that have been fired from jobs for being drag Queens like this. Yeah.
  • [12:37] Ally: People can be fired for what they're doing concurrently I think it's more questionable like can they fire you for something that you did in the past that wasn't illegal but I agree with Keith I don't think this would be a problem.
  • [12:49] Keith: Um, maybe maybe in some red states they would bring the suit. It would.
  • [12:51] Mike: Something you did in the past that wasn't illegal that was an interesting little caveat you put at the end there. What if you were an alcoholic in the past like a really crazy alcoholic but never did anything illegal.
  • [13:04] Ally: Um I think it all matters if you're still an alcoholic.
  • [13:07] Mike: Okay I don't know yeah, the law here is difficult to know. But I think this is a ah has to be a genuine concern for women doing camming. However I've I've thought that that at this stage. Maybe there's so much content on only fans porn sites and camsites that. Ah, there's security through obscurity at least until the inevitable there's some there's I think that there'll be some some kind of iteration of the fapening pro or whatever that will connect to your Apple vision plus and basically as you walk or whatever Apple vision pro and as you walk around, you'll be able to just see naked versions of all the women you see if there are.
  • [13:27] Keith: Flooding the zone.
  • [13:34] Ally: Um, who.
  • [13:43] Mike: You know if they've camed before you see I'm imagining some giant database. Well, that's a good point. Actually maybe there's no point because you can just do the the thing that was done to Taylor Swift yeah
  • [13:45] Ally: Like Ai generated versions. Even if they haven't right.
  • [13:53] Keith: The Ai thing. Yeah, my guess is that in something on the timescale of 3 to 5 years There won't be any and a minute anonymity if you have old content that's on the web anywhere. Like people will just be able to find it. They can upload a current picture of you and then some bot can go out and find any place that you have appeared on the internet. There's already some services that do that the the main one is pim eyes p I m e y e s dot com um and they don't. Disclose how they're doing it. But it's a little creepy yet you can upload a photo of yourself and it'll find other photos of you.
  • [14:35] Mike: Keith is there one that can do it for your voice. So for example, let's say you had an anonymous podcast and they wanted to know who you were.
  • [14:40] Keith: Yeah, this thought has crossed my mind not yet, but shortly for sure.
  • [14:44] Ally: Um.
  • [14:47] Ally: How good is the portrait for one at finding fixtures of you like very long ago like as a teenager.
  • [14:48] Mike: And that's interesting.
  • [14:54] Mike: I can tell you Allie that the that the Google photos is able to correctly identify my my kids when they were really little and it knows that it's the same person as today which is pretty so I guess the facial record like your facial proportions stay sufficiently similar.
  • [14:57] Keith: Mm.
  • [15:02] Ally: Edit okay.
  • [15:05] Keith: Yeah.
  • [15:09] Ally: Yeah Apple Photos doesn't reliably do that for me. But.
  • [15:15] Mike: Maybe that's because of your your accident. No.
  • [15:17] Keith: Um, has anything changed in your appearance.
  • [15:19] Ally: I Don't know my face scrape changed since I was a child I guess.
  • [15:24] Mike: Yeah.
  • [15:25] Keith: Yeah, but I mean that probably happens with most people. Yeah I don't know.
  • [15:31] Mike: Yeah I think but I think generally this is a this is an issue that ah so for example, Ah, the Australian sex worker whose tiktok I follow has mentioned on her. Ah, on her thing. She she ah she mentioned also that she she's very against sugaring because she thinks that basically sugar dating always hurts the woman I haven't gotten any I asked her for more details on that and haven't gotten anything useful yet? Yeah, she she thinks escorting is better for the woman because.
  • [15:52] Keith: As opposed to prostitution.
  • [16:00] Mike: I Don't exactly know why. But I think basically because she thinks that women get taken advantage of more by the men in sugaring situations. Um, they yeah so um, but yeah I mean she's she's talked about this this issue with basically once get content gets out online your life changes and it's I can't change back.
  • [16:07] Keith: Ah, could be.
  • [16:19] Mike: Basically you've it's a 1 ne-way door and so people need to sort of assess their comfort level with that when they're considering it.
  • [16:24] Ally: Is sugaring less common in Australia because prostitution is legal.
  • [16:30] Mike: I Don't know the answer to that. Yeah, it maybe but I mean she she obviously tried it because she was able to give an opinion on it. Um, maybe the legality of prostitution makes it so sugaring is less ah is more abusive or more harmful. Women I've always assumed that sugaring would be a better option for a woman because you can have a stable partner and just yeah.
  • [16:49] Keith: I suspect she's applying like her 3 anecdotes and generalizing she might be right? but it's I'm sure she would most people who are using anecdote to make a point do get angry when you pointed out to them.
  • [16:51] Ally: Ah.
  • [16:54] Mike: She probably get very angry if she heard you say that. But yeah, she might oh that's true. That's true notice that Keith is actually making that argument from anecdote as well. Yes, yes.
  • [17:09] Keith: Using an anecdote. Yeah, you should. You should try critiquing my argument and seeing if I get upset about it then and then we will be fully meta all right? Let's move on. Ah, let's see here. Um, okay I'm going to try using this word to get.
  • [17:10] Ally: Yeah, persist.
  • [17:14] Mike: He has no scientific studies showing that. White.
  • [17:19] Ally: Um, first.
  • [17:27] Keith: Connie Linus Okconnelingus cunolingus.
  • [17:29] Mike: It's the it's the E That's the problem cunolingus yeah is that right is that what you say to your partner allli. Do you say you that what you say? do you say a baby connolingus me tonight all right? You're against it.
  • [17:32] Ally: Um.
  • [17:34] Ally: Oh yeah, that's I mean I'm Mark the same place do not and you but yeah, no, it's too much more.
  • [17:45] Mike: Have you you haven't I haven't been able to persuade you to to go ahead and start accepting that right. It's not how is it work for the woman.
  • [17:51] Keith: How would you know winsle last time you tried.
  • [17:52] Ally: Um, oh I mean it's been a I would say like five ish years maybe
  • [18:02] Mike: Um, how is it work. What did you mean by that because you sort of wait. What But how is it work. What do you mean.
  • [18:02] Keith: I Think it's worth I think it's worth checking in.
  • [18:08] Ally: Like for him like he has to stop what he's doing readjust on the bed. Do something else like good point. So.
  • [18:17] Mike: Um, why are you having sex on a bed now. Yeah like I have to scoot down on the toilet. Um, but okay, but so you're you're saying it's too much work because you know it won't get you off.
  • [18:17] Keith: Um, it's true. You don't use the car Center council.
  • [18:32] Ally: Yeah, or it's not as reliable as other methods I have to really be in the right mood or in the right head space.
  • [18:36] Mike: Right? Okay I sense some self loathing here. Yeah.
  • [18:41] Keith: Can you I do too. But let's get back to that. Can you can you or guess I'm when you're drunk it is It is it easier harder or the same. Okay, so.
  • [18:45] Ally: Um, oh yeah, easier easier. Yeah.
  • [18:57] Mike: That's interesting I think it's almost always harder for men.
  • [18:59] Keith: Yeah, like my recommendation? Yes, yes yeah, my recommendation would be to get yourself sauced and then commit to letting your partner try but the problem is it's It's been so long and he's so used to like not needing to do that that he might be hesitant himself now.
  • [18:59] Ally: Yeah I've written that.
  • [19:09] Ally: Okay.
  • [19:16] Ally: I Willing to do it I'm with the question is you know if if he does it and it doesn't work. Do I continue probably yeah right.
  • [19:18] Keith: He's He's gotten this.
  • [19:26] Keith: Um, maybe his technique is atrophied.
  • [19:28] Mike: Oh you could be like 2 teenagers just learning each other's bodies again. Keith I mean Keith Keith has told me that there's some men who actually actively want to do this. Maybe you're deprived.
  • [19:34] Ally: I mean.
  • [19:38] Ally: I Believe that yeah like an instrument so he has a strong amishure which I think would help.
  • [19:40] Keith: Yes I am I I One of them.
  • [19:46] Mike: Are you certain that you're not depriving your partner of this thing he likes doing.
  • [19:53] Ally: I've never heard him say that it was like his favorite thing that that he missed it So I'm not certain but feel like he would.
  • [19:58] Keith: But that's part of the problem you need because because of Mike's theory which is there's some self-loathing going on here. He needs to be he needs to be like super enthusiastic almost begging to get over the.
  • [20:04] Mike: Love my lord.
  • [20:05] Ally: Who Yeah, yeah, exactly.
  • [20:15] Keith: Yeah, the insecurity well that you're in.
  • [20:15] Mike: I think hang on I think there's a way to actually figure out if it's if that's what the problem is Allie would you let a guy perform analingus on you so that one is just strictly no and and how come there we go.
  • [20:18] Ally: Um.
  • [20:23] Ally: No.
  • [20:30] Ally: It's gross I think my own butthole is not perfectly clean and like is I would I wouldn't like anyone else's butthole either like.
  • [20:30] Keith: Yeah.
  • [20:32] Mike: See she thinks her own body's grossy. This is the point.
  • [20:37] Keith: Yeah, mine is pristine I but I understand that everybody else.
  • [20:39] Mike: Mine too.
  • [20:45] Mike: Oh so she maybe has loathing about bodies in general.
  • [20:46] Ally: There's bacteria there that aren't supposed to go in your body probably.
  • [20:52] Keith: Ah, buttoles are kind of gross like I um I'm with you on that? Um, but.
  • [20:58] Mike: It's fairly common on Cam sites to have a woman be requested just to basically get her butthole as close to the camera as possible so people can see it really up close does that make sense to either of you Why why? somebody would want that why key.
  • [21:11] Keith: Yes, yes I occasionally like a good clean butthole to look at and it's you know it's It's sort of ah dominant. It's It's particularly submissive.
  • [21:21] Mike: Huh.
  • [21:27] Keith: For her does she like squat over the camera like how does she do it.
  • [21:29] Mike: No, they typically like kind of get on their hands and knees and kind of move backward toward the camera and then they're looking at the you know because they have it up on the screen so they can sort of see where they are to situate their body I assume Keith when you say you like a good butthole. You mean a female butthole. Okay, because that matters.
  • [21:37] Keith: I see yes and I think I could I think I could tell the difference but to I don't know I feel like there's something instinctual.
  • [21:48] Mike: How would you do that.
  • [21:51] Ally: When you see it. Do you want to interact with it. Do you want to like put your tongue in it or is it just seeing it.
  • [21:59] Mike: Oh.
  • [22:02] Keith: I I mean I knew this question was coming Okay, assuming it's a female butthole I could imagine you know in in peak Arousal suppressing my normal butthole Disgust to a point where I I I could. It's not ah.
  • [22:06] Ally: Ah, one yeah.
  • [22:20] Keith: It's not something I've done. It's not something I'm like necessarily or even at all interested in doing. But if I had a partner that was like really really really wanted me to do that and you know I like watched her get the Brillo pad out and scrub you know, then maybe then maybe.
  • [22:35] Ally: Um, ah so a normal power is not for you'd have to see like interiors. Yeah yeah.
  • [22:36] Mike: But Allie you you right? You would say no to that under all circumstances Allie that right? as a recipient he bit logger heads. Okay.
  • [22:51] Keith: Yeah, all right? Let's get back to ah this kind of linguus topic. All right Fiance wants me to suck on her vagina like I'm sucking on her nipples is going down on her and licking licking her very passionately. She liked it too much and then I proceeded to suck on a little down there.
  • [22:56] Mike: And.
  • [23:09] Keith: She screamed out of pleasure told me to suck a lot harder like I suck on her nipples I was hesitant at first I know vaginas are very sensitive but she insisted on doing this so I did until she came a few times we both loved very much but I'm afraid this has some side effects on the long run if I do it more often.
  • [23:24] Ally: Um.
  • [23:27] Keith: Should I be scared or keep doing it at it I forgot to mention that I did the same thing before in her labia both menorah and majora became swollen for a whole day now this guy could barely compose english sentences and he knows that there's Majora and menorah labia that's you know.
  • [23:40] Ally: Um.
  • [23:43] Keith: Prioritizing your your Esl learning his. Ah yeah yeah, um.
  • [23:48] Ally: You's seen a diagram. Yeah.
  • [23:50] Mike: Yeah Allie if you were if you were going to have them suck on one set of labia which set would you pick.
  • [23:56] Ally: Who I mean could you suck on the majora without inherently also sucking on the Menora like I guess if you are only sucking on one at a time. But if you're trying to fit both in your mouth like the interior ones are in there. Also.
  • [24:09] Mike: So when you think of someone sucking on your labia The way you interpret that is basically basically somebody creating a vacuum seal on your body and sort of trying to suck as if there was air inside there suck it out.
  • [24:09] Keith: Um.
  • [24:16] Ally: Um, both yeah.
  • [24:25] Ally: Yeah, no I've never tried that? Yeah, ah.
  • [24:26] Mike: Is that a thing that you enjoy how it will maybe somebody oh right? she doesn't She's not willing. Maybe maybe this is what's wrong with your oral sex experiences. Nobody's kind of trying to actively a vacuum prolapse you.
  • [24:27] Keith: Um, how would she know.
  • [24:42] Ally: Um, yeah I mean an answer question I don't think he should be concerned but it is kind of weird.
  • [24:45] Keith: Um, why.
  • [24:54] Keith: Um I think would she get like a Hickey around the area with the closed suction.
  • [24:54] Mike: That's yeah.
  • [25:00] Mike: I Hope so.
  • [25:02] Ally: Maybe so I think um, really.
  • [25:03] Keith: It makes sense to me that sucking could feel good I mean stroking along the clit feels good which is sort of analogous to stroking the male shaft and sucking on a penis feels good for the man. So like I can imagine sucking on a clit. Potentially feeling good. But I think klits are normally too sensitive for that much pressure in that way I don't but I don't I don't know.
  • [25:29] Ally: I Think sucking your liquid is kind of standard I think it's it's sucking on the whole theia like sucking on the ah the vulva. That's weird.
  • [25:35] Mike: How do you So you think it's kind of standard. What is your basis is this Anec data or do you have data on that and you have very little limited personal experience and you don't like this, you probably kind of are squeamish about it and don't look at what the guys or your partner is doing when this is happening right? if it happens.
  • [25:40] Ally: I Don't know data.
  • [25:51] Ally: Um, right right? yeah.
  • [25:53] Keith: Um, it's been so long.
  • [25:54] Mike: Right? I don't think that sucking on the clit is that standard. What do you think? Keith yeah.
  • [25:59] Keith: It's definitely not standard I have tried it in my youth and been told to knock it off I I have not tried it lately. It's not part of my array of usual technique.
  • [26:03] Ally: Oh.
  • [26:09] Mike: Sucking on it is useful if you want yeah sucking on it can make it sort of protrude more. So then you can bite it. It enables that.
  • [26:17] Keith: Yeah, that's also typically discouraged.
  • [26:17] Ally: Um.
  • [26:20] Mike: Yeah, but I don't think yeah I don't the the things these this person's described I've seen this in porn. But I don't I've never encountered a woman that had asked for this Keith have you ever encountered a woman that asked for any sort of sucking activity with her clit.
  • [26:36] Keith: Um, ah not that I recall.
  • [26:39] Mike: Maybe most women probably don't yeah most women probably don't ask right? They just sort of. Ah yeah, it's like a you. It's like a lie detector you find out. It's plus or minus right.
  • [26:41] Ally: This should fix.
  • [26:46] Keith: Yes, ah most women are not good at giving guidance but to the woman who likes aggressive sucking on her clit. She might be more comfortable giving guidance Generally there might be some overlap there in personality type.
  • [26:57] Mike: Okay. Now Allie. What about this part where he said like sucking on the nipples. So there's some presumption that you should suck really hard on a woman's nipples is that right? Well, how would you define real like so not as hard as you can. Okay.
  • [27:11] Ally: We not really hard like right.
  • [27:20] Mike: There's some limit but like you know there's there's who do you think sucks harder you on the guy's penis when you're giving a blowjob or him on your nipples interesting would you have guessed that Keith I actually would have guessed the opposite.
  • [27:27] Ally: Me on the penis.
  • [27:32] Keith: Um, no I would have guessed the opposite to but it's It's a different thing like you're sucking onto like a flat surface with a nipple and you're sucking on like a cylinder with a with a penis.
  • [27:41] Mike: Not really.
  • [27:47] Ally: I Find my nipples to be very sensitive and so I probably discourage excessive sucking like usually I don't even like them to be touched directly I like there to be kind of a layer of fabric in between. But um.
  • [27:58] Keith: Mike who she the sheaths for her nipples. Ah this is this is great Allie I I I can relate.
  • [27:58] Mike: Um, what? yeah I.
  • [28:10] Ally: I Don't use fabricric to masturbate like I don't put my underwear like over my hand domesticate sometimes yeah but I would I would do that like leave my t-shirt on or something and take my bra off.
  • [28:11] Mike: Um, yes.
  • [28:18] Mike: Do you do you play with your nipples while masturbating.
  • [28:24] Keith: Whoa.
  • [28:25] Mike: Can you with your hand show me what you would typically do to your nipples just as I can see I'm just curious What motions you make while masturbating you don't want to do it Well is it like your finger going back and okay so show. Yeah, show me what you would do here. So she's rubbing.
  • [28:29] Ally: Um.
  • [28:34] Ally: I Think rubbing it back and forth and so and that has like a little nipple produce. Yeah yeah, but.
  • [28:41] Keith: Sure.
  • [28:45] Mike: She's rubbing the tip of her Index finger along the end of the pen like okay would you tweak them like pinch them. You just rub back and forth. Okay, no little circles and it's just the end So it's the end of the nipple that you like.
  • [28:52] Ally: How Alex press in. Um.
  • [28:56] Keith: Yeah, but Mike importantly, it's through fabric of some kind. She's distributing the force.
  • [29:00] Mike: I Don't think so is that right? So you would wear a t-shirt when masturby What if you happen to not be wearing a t-shirt What if you were wearing something else. Do you always have it. Do you have a t-shirt you always wear when you masturbate.
  • [29:03] Ally: Yeah, over the t-shirt fabric. Yeah.
  • [29:15] Keith: Is there good questions.
  • [29:15] Ally: No, um I mean if I'm not wearing anything at all. Maybe I wouldn't touch my nipples at all if I'm wearing something too thick to feel through then I also wouldn't do it like it's not a oh.
  • [29:25] Keith: This feels like yeah but you have a favorite t-shirt right? that you use for this I Don't believe you I have a I have I have my favorites myself.
  • [29:29] Mike: Huh.
  • [29:33] Mike: I think she probably does she has a t-shirt that says I heart Keith on it I've seen it well lord.
  • [29:33] Ally: And I need.
  • [29:37] Ally: Um, what? what is your favorite sheath. Keith.
  • [29:45] Keith: Um, I mean I could give Brand name and fabric here but I just can't would well maybe we could get a ah sponsorship and then I'll reveal does that company still exist I don't know either.
  • [29:49] Ally: Um, yeah, okay.
  • [29:53] Mike: Um I think it's I think it's um, ummbroses ummbroses I don't know just made it up. He likes to use running socks used used. No, that's not right.
  • [30:01] Ally: Yeah, okay so.
  • [30:04] Keith: Now Now all right? Let's move on. Um this person says my girlfriend wants to dirty talk in ancient Slash elizabethan English I don't know how to do this wish I were making this up but I am not please believe me.
  • [30:12] Ally: And.
  • [30:19] Keith: Girlfriend asked me recently whether I'd be down for trying a kink of hers and I said sure I'd like to hear what it is. She told me she loves ancient settings as she likes classical books and that she'd like to do a sexual role play set and elizabethan Slash Shakespearean Era She said that she.
  • [30:31] Mike: This is the worst fetish ever.
  • [30:36] Keith: She said Mike it's going to get it hold out. It's going to get redeemed she said that she'd like to do a threesome with another girl. We're monogamous, but she said we can do this with other women if that makes sense. It doesn't but okay I was surprised but I agreed since she offered a threesome good good call. She went ahead.
  • [30:42] Mike: Um.
  • [30:48] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [30:52] Keith: And bought costumes. We can wear like stuff. You'd see in a drama for both of us. She's also given me the story. We can follow stories and quotes and asked me to memorize it beforehand I also met the friend of hers who's shortic for the threesome I managed to read through the story she wrote out but she's made it clear that I have to dirty talk in Elizabethan english in the story. Place to her and the other girl too. Of course everything leading up to the sex and the story should also be such english but especially the sex agreed to it but I don't know how to do this I'm just unsure as to what to do.
  • [31:22] Mike: I Wonder how period accurate this is going to be like I mean will they have bathed.
  • [31:31] Keith: Um I have a topic discussing that later. But yeah famously Napoleon and ah.
  • [31:33] Mike: Yeah, well, there's a lot of bathing different different cultural differences in cultural bathing norms as you go back in time I mean it wasn't Also it's irritating to me that like this person doesn't realize that ancient typically refers to.
  • [31:49] Keith: I know ah, well yeah, well and old and middle english are both pre Shakespeare. So.
  • [31:50] Mike: You know two thousand years ago. Not Elizabeth in England but ok I think I will say this about this I think that this is a clever way if a guy came up with this It's a clever way to get a threesome. You basically tell your female partner. You want to sort of reenact like a Jane Austen novel some like garbage that women like and and then you throw the threesome in and you see if like somehow you can thread that needle of like giving them something and then getting the threesome out of it exactly there you go.
  • [32:21] Keith: Okay, we can do twilight but you have to bring your best friend. Um.
  • [32:27] Mike: Yeah, all right? it's.
  • [32:29] Ally: Um, it sounds very complicated and overspecified so she probably has particular words that she wants him to use or particular phrases Charity has a story like.
  • [32:36] Keith: I Think it sounds like her expectations are not reasonable and he is clueless and so he's definitely in a fuck up I'm not sure how he's going to but he's gone. He's going to.
  • [32:51] Mike: This is I'll tell you what this sounds like to me there was I would watch this porn There's this um Jack and Jill as a people make porn anyway and they have vr porn and I was watching one of these and it was 2 women having sex but the Jack wasn't there. This guy is really long penis that usually participates. And I was in the vr headset so I turned my head to the left and I saw Jack over in the corner on a stool just furiously trying to get his cock card like for a long and so then I just kept watching that I was like god damn like this is and this is what this sounds like to me. It's like for the women this is going to be great and the guy is just going to be over there like.
  • [33:16] Ally: Um, ah.
  • [33:23] Ally: Um, yeah.
  • [33:26] Mike: Trying and trying to get into it. He's like I can't I can't get my member activated. It was kind of sad watching him I was like Wow and he was going through some really complicated routine just to get that art on. Um, this doesn't sound like something that well I guess the threesome part is compelled would be compelling to the average guy but the elisa.
  • [33:41] Ally: Maybe the path down soon.
  • [33:45] Mike: I don't think so if you Allie is there a costume that you wish you could have sex in. You're just gonna right right? It had to do with amish people.
  • [33:52] Ally: Not or that immediately comes to mind. No um.
  • [33:54] Keith: You told us some fantasy of yours a long time ago. Oh yeah, that's what it was.
  • [34:01] Ally: Oh yeah, I'm beating a man in an amish community. But that was less about the clothing for say. Um.
  • [34:07] Keith: I Just needed an excuse to bring that back up.
  • [34:08] Mike: This was this is something about her wanting to be gender Queer or nonbinary I think because she wants to be the man in the fantasy which we we were talking before the show about what does does either of you know what nonbinary means.
  • [34:23] Keith: Yes I think oh I'm afraid to say no I don't want to say.
  • [34:25] Mike: But can you explain it Allie do you know what nonbinary means.
  • [34:28] Ally: Um, that you don't identify really strongly with either gender.
  • [34:35] Mike: So what? So this is mean that you you don't want to participate in having children or the age Don binary person. Okay said maybe so I'm not sure.
  • [34:46] Ally: Um, maybe.
  • [34:52] Mike: Like you won't you don't want to follow the clothing and other habits of either gender is that what it means? oh.
  • [34:57] Ally: Yeah I mean I have a friend who's nonbinary who is currently pregnant. So I can't say that it's that they don't want to participate in children. But um.
  • [35:05] Keith: Is their partner Also Nonbinary is this person.
  • [35:06] Mike: Um, ah so this person.
  • [35:08] Ally: No, their partner is a man.
  • [35:11] Mike: They is a girl then.
  • [35:14] Ally: Well when I knew them earlier in my life. They were a girl and now they are nonbinding.
  • [35:21] Keith: Oh yeah.
  • [35:22] Mike: Okay, but there's but there's no this is actually what I wanted to understand. There's no effort being made for this person to pretend that they doesn't have a vagina.
  • [35:32] Ally: No.
  • [35:35] Mike: Sorry I use the singular I'm trying to be as correct as possible using the singular verb with the plural they noun because it is a 1 person right? So they doesn't have a vagina. Um they admits that they has a vagina. Okay.
  • [35:40] Ally: Um, yeah, and yeah, yeah.
  • [35:51] Mike: Ah, but so but they dresses they dresses and clothes that they buys at not not female stores.
  • [35:57] Ally: Um.
  • [36:01] Ally: Ah I think it both I think they have some female clothing and some male clothing and I.
  • [36:07] Mike: You know what it sounds like it's I you know what I realized if when I talk like that it sounds like Ollie g okay I don't really yeah I don't really understand what I don't really understand what they want us to think.
  • [36:16] Keith: Ah, it does a little bit. It's the same affect. Maybe that's maybe he was ahead of his time. Maybe they was ahead of us of their time.
  • [36:19] Ally: And.
  • [36:24] Mike: They has to pick a bathroom right? They has to so I don't really I actually don't I be yeah genuinely I'm not sure what I'm supposed to what's supposed to be in my brain when they can just go in the on the wall between the bathrooms.
  • [36:35] Keith: They don't have to I think I think no I think there I think there are some nonbinary people that never leave like the state of California and would not go to places that don't have ah non gender bathrooms.
  • [36:40] Ally: Um, except each 1
  • [36:48] Mike: So they would so you're saying that you think they would confronted by a female and male bathroom. They would simply refuse to go to the bathroom they would hold it that's interesting. Maybe this is why San Francisco is that poop problem.
  • [36:56] Keith: Yes, potentially.
  • [37:04] Mike: <unk>s all there's a bunch of non-binary people. They just have to go out on the street and go to the bathroom because it's the only place that's not gendered.
  • [37:08] Keith: But that must be it I am surprised Tucker Carlson has not come up with that incredible theory.
  • [37:15] Ally: On binary homeless people are was bullshit.
  • [37:16] Mike: Okay, yeah I Just don't Yeah, it's hard for me to understand what they is they are saying about themselves when they say they're nonbinary I don't really understand what their inner What they I don't understand what is being communicated I don't get it. But that's okay.
  • [37:29] Keith: All right for this for this.
  • [37:29] Ally: I mean you have you annoying person who you know is american but grew up in Spain or something and then you ask them like well you know do you feel european or do you feel american and they're like oh you know I'm a citizen of the world. Whatever like that person is sort of non-binary in that sense where it's like Maybe they don't really identify with being american even though they are but like they also don't really identify with being spanish even though they live there for a long time. They're kind of like parts of both.
  • [37:54] Mike: Yeah, the difficulty is that we is that humans come in this dichotomy of genders and so when you say you're neither. Are you saying? you're not human.
  • [38:02] Ally: No I think it's they would probably say there's this distinction between like your biological sex versus gender being.
  • [38:08] Mike: Sure that I understand you're saying hey I want to be my gender is different than my biological success but this is saying I don't have a gender which is confusing because there isn't There aren't I mean unless you talk about Unix and neutered people and people who've had like their penises blown off in war.
  • [38:24] Keith: There's people with chromos normalmal chromosomal abnormalities as well. But setting All of those aside that let's let's presume. It's a normal Xax or X y person who is claiming that they are nonbinary and I think in that context. Yeah,, they're saying the cultural norms around sex and gender. Are you know cultural not biological and that data.
  • [38:49] Mike: I Just don't know what the third option is I mean you you have like women's clothes and men's clothes but are there aren't our nonbinary clothes.
  • [38:53] Keith: I Think they I think they introduce they would introduce New cultural norms that don't have such a dichotomy.
  • [39:02] Mike: Have they is there some piece of clothing that I can know someone's non binary because they're wearing it like some kind of shirt is that true See this is the thing I don't I mean yeah, it's just there is a but there is a dichotomy but like ah there is a dichotomy that's come down to us through evolution.
  • [39:04] Ally: No I think so this. So.
  • [39:06] Keith: Yeah, there's like a Kilt and um, no I don't know.
  • [39:19] Mike: And so when people say they don't want to be in that dichotomy. It's like okay well what? what are you? then like what what you have to invent a third thing but then I'm just wearing women's clothes I'm not non binary I'm a man wearing women's clothes like they're saying they want to be some outside that thing and it's like okay we have.
  • [39:23] Ally: You have you can wear women's clothes without it making you a woman and I.
  • [39:38] Mike: It's like saying. Um yeah, you have the inside and the outside of something there's it's like a mathematical problem right? There's no other choice. You're either inside the thing or outside the thing there's not you can't be like no I'm neither. It's like what does that mean wait.
  • [39:50] Ally: See it more I mean um I think the the country analogy is still good because you could imagine saying? yeah yeah or somebody who's mixed race. You know they say like well I'm not fully one or the other kind of.
  • [39:59] Mike: Um, well that's like saying you're both.
  • [40:05] Ally: Exist in between them and I guess that's the way they view gender. Also.
  • [40:07] Mike: But if you say you're non biary you're rejecting the there's only 2 So if saying you're both you say I'm both. But if you say non biary it means there's some something else. It's like saying.
  • [40:16] Ally: Or that there's a spectrum you know there's there's some area in the middle.
  • [40:20] Keith: Wait Mike Why do you tolerate both but not none.
  • [40:25] Mike: Well because then I then you just you could be saying that Ok sure, let's talk about? No it's not let's talk about what clothes you wear if I'm both then I wear women's and men's clothes if I'm neither then I wear nothing.
  • [40:28] Keith: I Mean this is just pedantic right? like.
  • [40:38] Ally: Um I do know um, but like like binary is like you know a or b there are just 2 options if you admit that there's some area in the middle like um, maybe exactly happy.
  • [40:41] Mike: I Don't understand That's the word. It gets to.
  • [40:50] Mike: Um, is that what it means you're half man half woman but you're you're still accept none. But.
  • [40:54] Ally: Like some man some woman like a mixed race person doesn't have to be fifty fifty but like they're saying you know I'm not white I'm not black I'm something in the middle and like if you.
  • [41:00] Mike: But that's not rejecting the binary of black and white. You're just saying you're in the middle of it but but rejecting the binary to me says I don't.
  • [41:06] Ally: I think is rejecting the binary right? Historically they would have said no, you're black.
  • [41:11] Keith: In this country.
  • [41:11] Mike: Went not to me. They wouldn't have I see so what nonbinary means to you is is there half may half woman or some percentage man some percentage woman I see I see okay.
  • [41:14] Ally: Yeah, well no, but to this hypothetical artfully black partially white person like they have said that's just black.
  • [41:24] Ally: Yeah, yeah, some percent.
  • [41:30] Mike: That that's helpful actually to me.
  • [41:33] Keith: I can't tell if you're trolling or not I'm going to ok can we move on from cancellation segment all right this person I can't make my wife orgasm title says at all I feel defeated as a man been together 10 years married 2 years
  • [41:33] Mike: Keith I'm not yeah.
  • [41:35] Ally: Um, Keith disagrees um.
  • [41:51] Keith: Been together since she was sixteen and I was seventeen I cannot for the life of me make her orgasm. She has a couple of times in the past but less than 5 times we have a very honest and healthy relationship I love her more than anything. She has always struggled with this I'm very generous in bed and always go down on her. And she loves it but no matter what I do I cannot get her over the line. The only one who's made her come I mean you've been seeing her since she was 16.
  • [42:15] Mike: Oh it's not like the football the captain of the high school football team is the only guy' made her come is that risk oh I'm I thought I think that the sentence was like the only one who's ever made her come and then it was gonna be a person is is Jeffrey it's like ah.
  • [42:17] Keith: No no, he says I'm the only guy who's made her come. There are yeah but it's been five years since the last time and I think for the best of both of us have just given up trying I've tried everything and I mean everything she very rarely plays with herself and can't orgasm on her own either.
  • [42:26] Ally: Um.
  • [42:41] Keith: Assures me that it's not me. It's her and she still enjoys her sex life. But sometimes it just gets to me I want to make her squirm and have wonderful shaking orgasms but I just can't she's wonderful lover and satisfy me on every way another person who can't use prepositions properly I just wish I could return the favor we have regular sex 5 or more times per week while. Sorry for the rant just a defeated husband who loves his wife and can't give her the pleasure she deserves edit for everyone who keeps asking. Yes, we use toys of all sorts bullets vibrators wands plugs you name it or the last ten years we've tried every different technique style kink that we are possible into. <unk>re a very open couple and have had deep discussions about our kinks but we've told each other things we thought we'd take to the grave and are both aware of our wildest fantasies and and play on them regularly I should have skipped the edit those completely incoherent I was like after 4 whiskeies. He's like I got to go edit this.
  • [43:31] Mike: Um, I'm going to go ahead out a limit I'm going to go out and.
  • [43:32] Ally: 1
  • [43:37] Keith: But.
  • [43:39] Mike: I'm goingnna guess that her wildest fantasy is that he would stop buying fucking sex toys right? He just he's like what no give me another wild fantasy. She's like what like I'm not yeah no.
  • [43:41] Keith: Yeah, leave her alone.
  • [43:42] Ally: This.
  • [43:51] Keith: Yeah, he's been badgering her for decades and she's just asexual or not that doesn't care.
  • [43:58] Ally: Yeah, or extremely closeted. They've been together since she was 16 so like that's already.
  • [44:00] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [44:01] Keith: Sure Yeah, she could be lying to him She could be gay or she could have some fantasy that you know she'll just never ever reveal. But yeah, typically if you have it if you have a sex life where the woman is never orgasming.
  • [44:06] Mike: Closeted.
  • [44:21] Keith: But she has also never really orgasmed much on her own like you're not going to be the key to unlock the box. The key that's going to unlock the box is she's going to get more comfortable with herself and exploring her own body on her own and figuring out the ways that you know things that feel good and can help her orgasm. But yeah, yeah.
  • [44:35] Ally: Yeah, and it sounds like she's not been doing that. So.
  • [44:40] Keith: Yeah, him like sorting through the Amazon reviews for the best sex toys probably not.
  • [44:43] Ally: Let's differ.
  • [44:45] Mike: Um, Allie at at what age and how did you discover how to make yourself orgasm.
  • [44:50] Ally: Oh um I think 11 or 12 I'm going to say 12 Um.
  • [44:54] Mike: So for the purposes of this podcast. We'll call that 18 move on.
  • [45:01] Ally: Yeah, um, and how did I just come Well I had read books that described this you know like young adult fiction or something that got it.
  • [45:08] Keith: No young adult fiction doesn't have but Judy Bloom doesn't have masturbation I mean does she actually does Judy Bloom have masturbation I I feel like I read all the Judy Bloom books and I don't remember that but maybe.
  • [45:15] Mike: Or maybe she just means describe the.
  • [45:19] Ally: Um, yeah, and yeah, yeah.
  • [45:26] Mike: Well, if you'd read this part I'm sure it would be well thumbed through part of your Judy Bloom collection ah but well hang on hang on it. But I want to understand.
  • [45:31] Ally: Maybe even maybe even you know fully adult fiction or something but um I mean a description in a book that was vague but referred to like touching between your legs and so there I was like well what like touching what? um and.
  • [45:40] Mike: Okay, fine.
  • [45:45] Mike: So you're what what could go on tell us the story. What happened the first time.
  • [45:50] Ally: I feel like I figured it out. Maybe ah the second time you know that I tried I think I I tried and didn't find the I guess or didn't find the right way. Well I mean hey yeah, especially for a twelve year old
  • [46:00] Mike: So yeah, okay.
  • [46:01] Keith: I hear Yeah, it's hard to find. Yeah.
  • [46:07] Mike: Um, but I'm curious. What the? what's the So what's the discovery process here you So when you do you have any memories of the time you were able to figure out how to work the mechanism and what kind of what what that was like.
  • [46:08] Ally: Ah.
  • [46:18] Ally: I don't remember the exact first time but I remember like being around that age and I think.
  • [46:24] Mike: I think you're lying Keith hang on Keith do you remember the exact first time I do too I think you're lying Allie is there. Some reason you're lying about that.
  • [46:27] Keith: Yes, vividly.
  • [46:33] Ally: No I really don't remember the exact time like I do remember being that age and masturing I don't im like the very first time I just.
  • [46:38] Mike: Okay, hang on I want to double click on this because the reason why I think Keith and I remember it so well and I think most men do is because it's surprising when it happens because it's very different from anything your body's ever done before and so you're like oh that's.
  • [46:44] Ally: In it.
  • [46:55] Ally: Um, yeah.
  • [46:56] Mike: Not and I mean for a guy. There's also like the semen and so like that. But really, the main thing is like there's a sensation that's yeah and and when it happens like it could be like a little frightening or something you're just like what like have I broken my body like it's surprising. You don't know and you know I Guess if you are extremely well versed in. The sexual response cycle as ah I of course was you then know what's going to happen but you could in the middle of the orgasm like wonder like am I having a seizure like what's happening. So this all this makes me.
  • [47:21] Ally: You know again and already read like our bodies ourselves or those books that talk about what sex is so I understood that this was like a thing that could happen I guess.
  • [47:30] Mike: But it makes me but it makes me wonder whether the experience you had of just general pleasure and an orgasm was kind of not that starkly different at that age or something like that because I think for a man. It's like very clear. It's like oh you know I'm having an orgasm now this is a different experience.
  • [47:43] Ally: E.
  • [47:50] Mike: And it's notable and it's something you remember.
  • [47:53] Ally: I Do think the orgasm was like a distinct different thing but I guess I had been like very aroused before so that sensation of being turned on or of being wet or something like that was familiar and it was just like oh this is like.
  • [48:05] Mike: Sure.
  • [48:09] Ally: This is the outcome of that like this is ah um, that's it.
  • [48:10] Mike: But it wasn't like surprising to you like that It felt so much better than whatever had come before. What.
  • [48:18] Ally: I Don't think it was surprise so again like I had I had read descriptions of this and like so it wasn't surprising that there would be such a thing as an orgasm. Um.
  • [48:25] Mike: Okay, but but you but you okay, it makes it just makes me think that like that the delta here is less for you than it was breasts. Oh so you're you're saying you think that my orgasm's better than yours. Yeah, like the sound of this.
  • [48:31] Keith: Um, okay yeah, let me wait.
  • [48:32] Ally: Oh I think I don't think how it is last yeah I agree with you I think he like yeah are like strongly I think the delta I think that.
  • [48:45] Mike: Is good. Nice.
  • [48:45] Keith: Ah, yeah for me.
  • [48:48] Ally: Men's like behavior and why it would be like kind of unthinkable for a man to have sex without coming but for a woman. It's like that's ok, you know.
  • [48:55] Mike: Huh maybe did so did did you did you have a another inflection point when you first had an orgasm say with ah a partner or something where you're like oh that felt a lot stronger or something that then changed your outlook or or is it kind of always the same as what you had when you were. 18 and have that first orgasm.
  • [49:12] Ally: Again I don't think it's controversial that people under 18 masturbate. But um I think having sex for the yeah yeah I really about how much you talk about kids and I don't think you.
  • [49:18] Keith: Yeah, we get all these angry emails.
  • [49:18] Mike: I'm just tired of getting shamed.
  • [49:25] Keith: I mean you you keep trying to pull it there Allie where we're we're trying to save our our poor listeners.
  • [49:30] Ally: Um, yeah, um, having sex for the first time was a definite inflection point like being penetrated was like a novel sensation. Um I don't think having an partner.
  • [49:38] Mike: Tell us about that. How is that how is that novel.
  • [49:45] Ally: I had never tried inserting anything there so being kind of like filled up. There was a difference and I don't even think um.
  • [49:49] Keith: What why? not.
  • [49:52] Mike: Um, yeah, what's what's going on with you.
  • [49:57] Keith: Mike Okay where we we got to create as a safe space here. Okay, you were never curious enough to try inserting anything what about your fingers.
  • [49:57] Ally: And.
  • [49:57] Mike: What.
  • [50:06] Mike: Like ah a hairbrush handle like.
  • [50:09] Ally: Oh a finger. Maybe not a hairbrush handle I hadn't used Tampa at the time I was still using just pads. Um, okay.
  • [50:13] Keith: Ah, finger. Yeah, that's common. Let me.
  • [50:19] Mike: so so okay so the first time you experienced a penis that was the largest thing that had ever been inserted in you by a lot by a lot so it hurt probably.
  • [50:24] Ally: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, initially it hurts. Yeah.
  • [50:32] Keith: Wait how long does it hurt for though like second seconds or minutes or days or or okay.
  • [50:38] Ally: No, no, maybe like a pin it.
  • [50:41] Mike: A minute so it's sort of but it's so it's like a stinging pain. It's not just like a sharp and then it goes away they last for a bit.
  • [50:46] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
  • [50:48] Keith: Um, wait is there's is there some like stretching or tearing that happens the first forget the hymen but ah is there some stretching or tearing that happens the first time and that never happens again.
  • [50:58] Ally: I Wouldn't say it never happens and I think if you go long enough without having sex it might again hurt oh like there. The vagina like the vaginal canal might hurt like and.
  • [51:06] Keith: What's it. What? what's happening is there some like tissue ah damning or or or bit buildup that needs to get resttretched.
  • [51:06] Mike: The stretching.
  • [51:18] Ally: Maybe I mean maybe your brother in-law would know it seems like you let it you know stay like I guess the vagina is kind of like closed right? If you let it stay closed for several months I think the muscles kind of like adjust to that confirmation and so then like.
  • [51:21] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [51:36] Ally: Having something in it. You know, suddenly again.
  • [51:38] Keith: I Don't know. Yeah.
  • [51:39] Mike: So wait the pain that you experience is at right at the entrance or is it all throughout the your pelvis.
  • [51:48] Ally: Um, um, the mostly at the entrance.
  • [51:48] Keith: This is a while ago.
  • [51:53] Mike: Um, it sounds like it's happened repeatedly because she's had these like months long dry spells that she made reference to.
  • [51:56] Ally: No, no, no I mean I feel like I've only had more like a few times in my life. Um, yeah at the at the entrance at the beginning of penetration.
  • [52:02] Mike: Okay.
  • [52:02] Keith: Must bus. Be nice.
  • [52:08] Mike: Yeah I had ah I had look at 17 year dry spell and then I had another 22 year dry spell.
  • [52:19] Ally: Um, and didn't hurt. Yeah.
  • [52:20] Mike: Um, yeah I'm on my third dry spell. Well no I'm going to buy 1 of those dick ticklers. Um, okay so it's interesting to me that you do remember more clearly this first penile insertion than your first masturbation.
  • [52:29] Ally: Yeah, well I mean I was also older like there was more build up to it like I was anticipating it more.
  • [52:30] Keith: It was more recent.
  • [52:37] Mike: Um, you didn't anticipate masturbating. This is what this this must let's just suck to be woman like and she'spitting.
  • [52:41] Ally: No because like I feel like pretty soon after I read about it I tried it whereas I guess men learn about masturbation before they're capable of like completing it. Okay.
  • [52:51] Mike: I Don't think that's right.
  • [52:54] Keith: Um I don't think that's right either I I think I was sort of surprised when it happened like ah.
  • [52:57] Mike: I Think men want to try it.
  • [52:59] Ally: What did you think would happen such that you were surprised.
  • [53:03] Keith: I didn't know I mean I remember I had I was at a new school and I I know I was in like it.
  • [53:09] Mike: No, he had his friend Charlie told him to try hanging himself while he beat off now go.
  • [53:13] Ally: Um, a sleeping back for the.
  • [53:19] Keith: It was like the it was like the first day of school or something I don't remember exactly when it was but but before school I was eating some powder donuts and I had like the white powder around like my my mouth and I remember some kids like mocking me and I didn't really understand what they were mocking me about because I hadn't yet.
  • [53:33] Mike: Um, look what great at this.
  • [53:39] Keith: Orgasmed and like didn't fully understand what semen was or so like I just didn't understand the nature of the mocking and then when you know I don't know if it was days or weeks or whatever sometime later when I had my first orgasm and you know this weird new fluid shoots out I was.
  • [53:55] Ally: And all over your.
  • [53:57] Keith: Yeah, like it was like oh like I Ah yeah, it's sort of understood and in fact, yeah I probably felt some shame in that moment because then I'd like more clearly understood why you know I had been teased earlier.
  • [54:09] Ally: Wow.
  • [54:09] Mike: So your first orgasm Keith that you remember is tied inegrally to these like kids that were teasing you in your mind. Yeah.
  • [54:17] Keith: I don't know I mean we've talked about like why I feel shame after masturbating and you never feel shame after masturbating. Maybe this is all related. No I I don't really like powdered donuts but I eat donuts multiple times a week
  • [54:27] Mike: Do you do you have trouble eating donuts like that does it do you this I Wonder why you just don't like them. There's no, you don't you don't know why.
  • [54:37] Ally: Try to call fairly tall in the middle like it's a really tight donut first.
  • [54:37] Keith: Ah I don't like the texture of the sugar.
  • [54:45] Keith: I Really like chocolate donuts with a messy hole. Um.
  • [54:48] Mike: Okay, now I don't want to let so.
  • [54:49] Ally: Um.
  • [54:54] Ally: You weren't aware that that orgasming was a thing like you weren't aware that semen would come out of you and then somehow you found that? Okay, so yeah, maybe that's um, part of the difference like I had read a description of the entire mysturatory process and like a.
  • [54:57] Keith: I I don't I don't think I did now.
  • [55:01] Mike: At wait. Okay.
  • [55:10] Keith: Um, and that caused you to like do some body exploration Her ok.
  • [55:10] Ally: And orgasm yeah.
  • [55:17] Mike: Um, and you hit on rubbing your clit in a certain way.
  • [55:18] Ally: Yeah.
  • [55:21] Keith: Um I think women know about rubbing their clip like you'll even see I can I say this like you'll even see very young girls like straddling stuff from time to time.
  • [55:30] Mike: Um I have never in my life seen a very young girl. So I don't I can't talk about that.
  • [55:36] Ally: Um.
  • [55:36] Keith: Ah, right? Okay, well excuse me for having the temerity. Um, yeah like I think women are aware that there's There's a pleasure center there.
  • [55:46] Ally: Yeah, there's a local. Ah yeah, yeah.
  • [55:48] Mike: I think that the biggest thing is I mean women often get caught I mean look what the age you gave Allie is much younger than average I think or it's younger than average for a woman's first orgasm for sure known for a woman for a woman women a lot of women don't have the for I mean a lot. There's well.
  • [56:01] Ally: Younger than average for you guys like how? yeah yeah, but um.
  • [56:07] Mike: You can argue about whether they're women that never have an orgasm but like the average age of first orgasm is older than that typically and a lot of it has to do with kind of getting freaked up by sensations um feeling like they need to pee like just not doing it long enough etc but it sounds like you didn't have any of those issues. The first time you tried you succeeded.
  • [56:11] Ally: The name.
  • [56:26] Ally: I think the second think the second time I tried I succeeded I think like tried running like outside the underwear and that did not work and then I was like what about inside how long it took I feel like it probably is like fifteen or twenty minutes
  • [56:26] Mike: Do you do you have any idea how long it used to take be like okay do you have any idea how long it used to take you. Okay.
  • [56:36] Keith: Bad.
  • [56:39] Mike: Okay, do do you think that what that at that young age you had fantasies or you were just were you thinking about some some nonbinary person in your class or.
  • [56:53] Ally: Um I was probably thinking about like agent Fox Moulder the time. Oh yeah, yeah.
  • [56:58] Mike: Okay, so it would have been a man much older than you interesting wonder where that came from. Okay.
  • [57:07] Keith: I mean David de coveney was a was a stud at the time.
  • [57:12] Mike: Um, wait I have a question. So Keith when you what? Okay what wait what 8 what grade were you when your first orgasm Keith approximately doesn't matter. Okay, so let's say was eighth grade does that mean that you were fantasizing about like third grade girls.
  • [57:17] Keith: Um, ah you know I've been thinking through these timelines I think eighth.
  • [57:22] Ally: Feel.
  • [57:28] Keith: Um, what? what.
  • [57:29] Mike: Because you would go younger a man would want to date a younger woman like he had like some oh.
  • [57:35] Keith: Know no I think that's a sliding scale is met age. They they prefer younger but when they're ah when they're in eighth grade I think they prefer older.
  • [57:37] Ally: Um.
  • [57:42] Ally: Um, but so if you if you were in eighth grade you were like 14 how um.
  • [57:46] Keith: No I was I was young for my grade. Ah so I was I think I was 12 actually I was 12 at the beginning of eighth grade.
  • [57:51] Mike: Okay, and you would have been fantasizing about girls in your class maybe or older. Okay.
  • [57:51] Ally: Ah, oh.
  • [57:55] Keith: Maybe that's right? Yeah I mean it was It was a new school. So maybe I was fantasizing about girls in my old school I don't remember I Definitely don't remember yeah I was probably using like a.
  • [57:56] Ally: Or about those boys showing those boys you.
  • [58:07] Mike: I Think guys at that age will basically fantasize about any possible thing. Yeah right? yeah catalog. Yeah I mean I think you I think at that age a guy could masturbate to his female friend or her mom.
  • [58:14] Keith: Yellow pages or something just anything L Lp and catalog like who knows.
  • [58:20] Ally: Ah, 10
  • [58:25] Mike: And maybe her grandma but certainly her mom that would be possible right? So would be possible like you be like oh that's yeah, that would work I think that's you know? Yeah, there's this like you know there's that there are porns where it's the the mom and the daughter. Whatever and that's not realistic, but except for the 1
  • [58:27] Keith: Yeah, well the moms at that point are in their like late 30 s right? yeah.
  • [58:43] Keith: Um I asked I asked chat gp t a couple things throughout the episode here. So do any Judy Bloom Books discuss masturbation they say yes, are you there? God it's me Margaret Touches on it. Deanie has a more direct reference and.
  • [58:44] Mike: Yeah, one, there's a point am we going.
  • [59:01] Keith: The most notable example is forever which has been a subject of controversy and discussion for its candid treatment of teenage sexuality including masturbation. So there's those and then I asked what is the average age of a woman when she has her first orgasm chet gbt comes back with 3 paragraphs of.
  • [59:09] Mike: Ah.
  • [59:13] Mike: Are.
  • [59:19] Keith: Woke bullshit and they say they can't say the age at which a woman experiences her first orgasm can vary widely to it. A range of factors including individual blah blah blah blah blah and it goes on for paragraphs of that.
  • [59:21] Mike: That they can't say because there's right This is like you if you ask it to tell a joke about white people. It'll tell you one and they say tell a joke about Asian people and it won't.
  • [59:22] Ally: Um, and.
  • [59:32] Ally: Um, think type.
  • [59:36] Keith: Yeah I mean they have all these gates that. But.
  • [59:38] Mike: There are things like that where they programmed it? Yeah yeah.
  • [59:39] Ally: You guys have have read the Kinsey Books like alfre Kinsey has like this one long book about men sexuality and another one about women's sexuality that he generated from interviews like like that has this data.
  • [59:50] Mike: Right? Yeah, the the women's women. Yeah yes.
  • [59:51] Keith: Yes, yet chet ep is lying here and it's not lying. It's been told it's not allowed to talk about it like ask ask Chet Gpt about pit bulllls. It won't say anything about pit bulllls like anything that's like a cultural.
  • [59:56] Ally: Okay.
  • [01:00:08] Ally: Then the.
  • [01:00:08] Keith: Third Rail It just won't talk about it's sort of impressive How many guardrails it has.
  • [01:00:14] Mike: Right? Yeah, they've got and they're always going the same direction meaning like it's not like they if you had a chat gpc that was built in like Oklahoma it would just have all garrells around like ah, fun of evangelical christianity. But that's not it doesn't do that right? like it'll tell you all kinds of.
  • [01:00:32] Mike: Negative stuff about those topics. It's It's very. It's obviously that it has like a specific political bias.
  • [01:00:35] Keith: Yeah, if you ask it about like for example, Gaza it'll actually blow up your computer.
  • [01:00:40] Mike: Yeah I think it'll tell a joke about Christians but not about muslims and that's another one? yeah.
  • [01:00:46] Keith: Ah, sounds right? anyway. Ah we have waited deep into getting ourselves canceled this episode. Let's see let's see if we survive it that'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary. Thank you for joining us Allie.
  • [01:00:59] Ally: Of course.
  • [01:01:02] Keith: Ah, you can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpodat gmail.com that's YMM the pod at gmail.com we pay $10 for any feedback. Just let us know Paypal cash app. However, you want to be paid. Thanks for listening and we will catch you next week on your mileage may vary.