Your Mileage May Vary: Boudoir Photos, Cliché Vacation Dreams, Magic Penis Shapes, Not Going Down

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial but mostly in good faith. We have a pretty fun list of topics to cover today including a man who becomes jealous of his wife after she sends him professional photos. A man who feels insecure after using a dildo on his wife and some discussion about the proper amount of oral sex to give to a woman I'm Keith my co-host is Mike and Mike you have anything new to report in your world.
[00:19] Mike: Yes.
[00:30] Mike: I mean I've just getting over a week and a half long cold. It's I thought was covered but I test I thought it thought if anything's going to be covered this is going to be it. But I've done 2 tests and I did not I've never had covid before as far as I know so there you go now I don't.
[00:36] Keith: Um.
[00:43] Keith: Yeah I mean you had your first cavity this year and you could have finally broken the covid cherry too.
[00:50] Mike: Have a cavity they just like smeared some junk on my on my my teeth to make sure I don't get any cavities.
[00:59] Keith: Um, why would they need to do that if you've never had 1
[01:00] Mike: Like a little bit of receding gum line in 1 spot so that yeah, that's a thing like that's a negative for sure.
[01:10] Keith: All right, fair enough. Um I think I have a new online dating pet peeve that I wanted to talk to you about which is a lot of dating apps have like various prompts where you can.
[01:17] Mike: Okay.
[01:27] Keith: Respond 1 of them is something about where would you like to travel. Um, and also I often ask as an opener if there isn't a prompt for travel I'll say where's someplace unusual you would like to travel and I'm doing something a little bit.
[01:41] Mike: Here. Oh.
[01:47] Keith: Clever here. It's not thinly veiled but they'll normally say like oh I'd like to go to place XYZ and then they'll say what about you and normally I can say I've been to place x y c and also that I can flex that i've.
[02:00] Mike: Right.
[02:06] Keith: You know, been to 93 countries and it's it's a little tricky because it can seem like I'm obviously doing that so I have some various techniques to try to veil it a little bit but in any case, 1 thing that I see a ton is. People will say that they've they would really like to go to the Maldives and.
[02:27] Mike: Does anybody by the way has anybody ever like speed run going to that many countries like you could imagine somebody like speed running a hundred countries and like I'm not sure how fast you could do it anyway. Just made me think of that I was first I was thinking about like.
[02:31] Keith: Um, ah yeah, yeah, like Phineas Fogg and around the world in eighty days
[02:46] Mike: An ultra wealthy person would just be like oh well I can just fly my private jet around the world repeatedly and then I was thinking oh you could you know? Yeah, you get that done sort of we would still take like realistically probably half a year to do that right.
[02:48] Keith: Right.
[03:00] Keith: Yeah I think there's some places that have particularly onerous visa restrictions. Um, so there's some places you can't go like americans can't go to North Korea for example um but you can.
[03:06] Mike: Right.
[03:11] Mike: Right.
[03:16] Keith: If you're a billionaire you can buy passports to other countries and then in which case you can go to North Korea
[03:19] Mike: I was just thinking of getting I wasn't thinking of getting like to some preposter preposterously high number I was just thinking of getting like a hundred like what that would take.
[03:29] Keith: Yes, in that case I'm sure you could speed run it I did see that somebody ah just made it to all 195 UN countries and I think she was like 20 or something and she was the youngest to ever. Do it.
[03:45] Mike: So must have had access to wealth one way or another sure. Okay, so the Maldives maldives not much.
[03:46] Keith: So yeah I don't I don't remember what the details there are but ok the Maldives. So what do you know about the Maldives. Okay, so the thing that most people know is that they have these hotels with these long. Wooden boardwalks that go out and the hotel rooms are sort of hovering over the ocean. Did you have the picture in your mind there there like these little bungalows maybe with thatched roofs and um.
[04:11] Mike: Um, okay sure sure.
[04:19] Mike: So where where are or is the Maldives That's what I figured. Okay.
[04:24] Keith: Ah, they are in the indian ocean so east of Africa and west of India or maybe south of India. Yeah I think they're like they're south. Okay.
[04:37] Mike: Um, okay.
[04:41] Keith: I think that is a almost insanely immature answer to where's someplace you would like to travel like it's no different for example than Hawaii it's just like more expensive and there's no culture there like it's just probably nets for capturing money from.
[05:00] Mike: Okay.
[05:00] Keith: Uber rich people since it's hard hard to get to and you know when you're chatting with somebody in an online dating app context. You should be trying to virtue signal that you're not like basic and boring and vapid and have interests that are a little bit. Ah, more interesting than just having good Instagram photo opportunities and so when people say the Maldives in response to like where's someplace unusual you would like to travel like I'm increasingly responding what is it about the Maldives that you prefer to Hawaii.
[05:39] Keith: And then I often get unmatched and I imagine it in my mind that they're embarrassed and so they're unmatching because they can like see the air in their response but like what's actually going on is they just think I'm an asshole and they don't want to deal with me.
[05:54] Mike: Well maybe they think you're anti Maldives.
[05:57] Keith: I would like to go to the Maldives too. But I just don't think that it's like cost effective I'll go there at some point because I want to say that I've been to that country but it's not like super high on my list of interesting places to go because I think it'll be a good experience I think it would be. Little different than an expensive spa weekend at napa.
[06:16] Mike: Okay, yeah I mean that makes sense to me. It's you're what you're saying is it's from your perspective. It's sort of an a low soci socioeconomic country that just has this tourist thing that everybody goes and does.
[06:30] Keith: Right? like it. How is it different than going to you know Grand Cayman or something and the answer is. It's not. It's just more expensive and harder to get to and people have probably seen Instagram or Tiktok content that makes it seem cool.
[06:38] Mike: Annual.
[06:46] Mike: Sure.
[06:48] Keith: And they don't have an interesting answer like saying Turkmenistan or something because I'm interested in. Whatever.
[06:53] Mike: Well I mean people basically just consume sort of the modern equivalent of like travel but brochures and they go oh well I want to do I mean that's what Instagram is right.
[07:03] Keith: Yeah, but I don't This is like a reliably frustrating experience I have with online dating like why don't people try to virtue signal that they're interesting. Is it just they don't need to like they're pretty women and so. And their experience men are just going to pursue them anyway and so there's just no need to even try to be interesting even if they were I think it's something like what I just Described. There's just no incentive for them to exert any effort until they've established in their mind that I'm worth pursuing.
[07:26] Mike: Why do you think they don't.
[07:35] Mike: Um, okay.
[07:40] Keith: But at that point when you know they're just responding to my opener. They're just sort of like rotely responding because they are you know they have like a hundred matches and they don't have time to.
[07:50] Mike: Um, yeah I mean I Just think that I just I Just think that people filter they kind of yeah they just don't spend a lot of time kind of thinking deeply about this kind of topic right? They just have some basic they they basically just take in whatever is on. Social media and kind of regurgitate it and I think that's becoming more more and more common particularly among a certain age range. Um yes, So it's just so they're just and in in terms of why they would put that on a dating profile I see what your your point is that.
[08:18] Keith: Yeah, we have this monoculture developing.
[08:29] Mike: They they kind of bucket themselves as a person with very ordinary tastes or very standard tastes and interests. Yes, yeah, I'm not she right? I'm not sure. There's really a penalty for doing that for um, an attractive young woman. Um, and there's.
[08:34] Keith: Basic I think is the millennial word.
[08:48] Mike: Sort of a plus in that then they are. It's like being in the sorority. You think the same thing that all the sorority girls think right? So you're you're actually in a you're in like a click. Um I mean yeah, like that that's I have this? ah.
[08:56] Keith: Neo.
[09:06] Mike: I don't know how I talked about this on the podcast or not but I have this theory that stop me if I have I have this theory that a lot of cultural trends ultimately descend from sort of the most attractive call it 1 to 5% of girls in high school. Um.
[09:22] Keith: Okay.
[09:25] Mike: And the reason why is that the most attractive 1 to 5% of girls in high school are the most attractive people on the planet. Ah, we're just physical attractiveness. They have the in some ways they yeah I mean they're like richer than billionaires on some level right? I mean like. They they have this incredibly valuable asset now they then can drive culture. So for example, if they were to get together in a certain high school and I'll start wearing a certain thing or adopting a certain behavior I actually think it's pretty likely that that behavior or or clothing would get adopted kind of. Throughout that high school and maybe would jump into the wider culture because of them doing that and I think that social media operates as kind of a ah yeah, like a force multiplier of that now you have the most attractive, whatever percent of girls on Tiktok on Instagram or whatever.
[10:12] Keith: Amplifier. Yeah.
[10:22] Mike: And they simply decide what our culture values. So for example, so like examples of this are ah that the reason like people so talk about how um the cultural prominence of kind of pop music. Was much higher and this is true in my view say in the 19 from like from the Beatles until like maybe the early 2000 something. There's some arc there and it's just become. It's still prominent. It's just become a lot a lot less culturally prominent and I think this has a lot to do with that that you had these attract.
[10:55] Keith: Why Why can you expand on that point.
[11:00] Mike: Sure if you if ah if if you went to a rock and roll concert in the 1980 s a Van Halen concert or just watch a footage of it. The people in the front of the concert hall hall are attractive teenage girls right? So obviously they were.
[11:17] Keith: Isn't that the same at Taylor Swift's concert this summer I don't understand the the point you're making here then.
[11:19] Mike: Not, it's not exactly the same It's not exactly this thing the point of making is that well I mean for Taylor Swift sure but let's say you take anybody other than Taylor Swift like it's not It's not the same and the point of making is that. The rise and fall of popular music of certain kinds I think is driven by this small set of attractive girls and what they do and they sort of like have a group think where they collectively decide that something is compelling and do it together.
[11:53] Keith: Okay, I just think pop music is a strange choice there I think pop music is still a thing.
[12:03] Mike: Um, it's not and not in the same way it has I think that the amount of cultural prominence that pop music has is almost is a shadow of what it once was.
[12:14] Keith: Do you think it's more distributed across more artists or that people are listening to music less.
[12:20] Mike: I think that it's no I think that you have a few who are able to play the game really well like Taylor Swift and people are listening. It's not that they're listening less. It's just they don't care as much and this has to do with the fact that the attractive girls have moved on instead of.
[12:30] Keith: Yep.
[12:39] Mike: You know dissecting the lyrics of such and such song or wearing shirts from such and such band going to such and such concerts. They're now on Instagram sharing photos like wherever the attractive girls go that's where culture goes.
[12:48] Keith: Right.
[12:56] Keith: Hu okay I need to sit with that a bit and think about it that might be right? Um, yeah, ah okay I wanted to talk about something else which is oh well. Okay, back to this like Maldives thing I would love it if and I've alluded to this like.
[12:59] Mike: Anyway, it's a theory.
[13:14] Keith: Some of our more recent episodes I would love it if I had hundreds of matches that I could apply various filters to and only agree to meet the ones that I think seem compelling but the problem I have is that.
[13:21] Mike: Um, sure.
[13:33] Keith: You know I swipe a hundred times I get 2 matches and the conversations with those people are often disappointing but but I don't have like a line of men going around the block like these women do right? So like women can.
[13:49] Mike: Um, right.
[13:52] Keith: Ah, apply whatever filter they want and still have you know a whole slew of men that they could go out with. But for me, it's It's always sort of frustrating. It's like oh I got a match here like I think this person's pretty. There is something in their profile that I thought was interesting and then if they say something disappointing. Have to sort of now decide like oh I think this is likely to go badly. Um do I you know swallow my pride and potentially sacrifice some dignity and agree to meet anyway and hope for the best Or. Do I just sit around and be a spencer for the rest of my life like I don't really have the opportunity to meet the I don't know the caliber of people I would like to maybe it maybe I'm not attractive enough enough myself.
[14:38] Mike: Well I mean maybe I mean the yeah, it's the woman who makes who gets to be selective right? I mean normally yeah I mean I think that like dating applications just match the real world in that normally. Ah.
[14:44] Keith: Now.
[14:56] Mike: Men will basically pursue almost anybody maybe maybe actually anybody and women then have to have to operate as the filter there and so you're you're basically saying that it frustrates you that you don't get to be the filter but that's just like your gender role.
[15:00] Keith: Um, right.
[15:07] Keith: Yeah, well, there's an asymmetry like I don't know how attractive I am but let's just say for the sake of argument I'm an eightieth percentile man for for me, it's hard to find eightieth percentile women but for an eightieth percentile woman. She can like easily find ninety fifth percentile men.
[15:18] Mike: Okay, um.
[15:26] Keith: Because men are just much less selective at least initially.
[15:33] Mike: Well I mean are you talking about attractiveness in terms of the percentile you're applying to the woman. Okay, okay, um.
[15:36] Keith: It doesn't matter what your criteria are for evaluating attractiveness I think I'm like x percentile attractive and x plus 10 percentile in other categories. But.
[15:53] Mike: Sure I understand right? Ah well I mean all of the women want to date somebody that they perceive as higher status than them right? and so it makes sense that ah you would be getting matches from women that are.
[15:54] Keith: It It doesn't matter.
[16:09] Keith: Lower than me. Yeah, right.
[16:11] Mike: Lower than you more often? Um, but it's but the the complicated thing there is that at least what what women should be doing is not just indexing on attractiveness for the man which is which is something that I think makes dating act. Apps complicated for a woman right? I mean she's she's she's supposed to be indexing on like how good of a partner you would be and status and things like that. Um.
[16:33] Keith: Yeah I think I should do fine. However, they're indexing I think I'm physically attractive enough and I think that I'm like as a person attractive enough. But how.
[16:45] Mike: So is so the net of this is just that you feel like ah if you if you set a certain filter. You just get a trickle of people above that filter.
[16:50] Keith: Yeah Trickle or a dried Upstream bed. Yeah.
[16:56] Mike: Yeah, um, well maybe your Elo score on whatever platform you're using has gotten too low for some reason. Um, yeah I mean the well.
[17:00] Keith: Yeah, maybe it might be.. It might be the dating apps aren't great for men of a certain percentile. I Don't know either. Oh.
[17:19] Mike: I Don't know I mean what I'm inclined to say is that it's just a manifestation of this argument that people make that all the women are basically circling around the same tiny tiny group of men. Um, that yeah, there's a there's a top.
[17:29] Keith: Yeah.
[17:36] Mike: 2% top 5% whatever man and they yeah and there is data to suggest this is true. Um, there's actually a ton of data. We've gone through it on the podcast before suggesting that that women kind of do that and so um, yeah, if you fall out of that range then.
[17:36] Keith: Yeah, and all the likes get clustered there. Yes, yes, we have.
[17:55] Mike: It's harder. And yeah I mean there's an equivalent female complaint which is that hey there are no guys that'll talk to me and it's kind of the other. That's the flip side of this coin right? is that women are all trying to up so go up status but then they they also can't find anybody. Right? Because the because the the other side of this coin is that the woman that is 2 notches below your filter. You won't respond to her right? So so it's just a tragedy.
[18:22] Keith: Um, right? Yeah I mean if you're yeah, restricting yourself to only men that have a bazillion options then you're probably going to be disappointed in that man.
[18:34] Mike: Right? And that I think like I think the argument that's made is that that this reality happens up and down the quality level and so basically dating apps just make everybody sad.
[18:48] Keith: Yeah, all right on that uplifting Note: let's move on this person says my sex life was ruined because I did boudoir picks she spelt them spelled Boud Duir B O D U I R E which is not even.
[18:56] Mike: Who.
[19:05] Keith: Really close. It's B O U D O I r right? but you are yeah how maybe you're the French expert here all right.
[19:06] Mike: Um Bo D Wire Bo Dear That's right, there might be an E on the end I think it's masculine I think it's not any.
[19:19] Keith: A 29 year old female. We've been together for 5 years I wanted to do something for his birthday and do some boudoir photos. They came out really good and it was a confidence boast made it into a calendar pick for his wallet and just something him and I can look through also thought it would be a crazy sex boaster.
[19:38] Mike: Here.
[19:39] Keith: She means booster turns out it killed our sex life because he's upset. Another man saw me like that. The photographer was literally gay and I had no sexual attraction of him but he just won't understand this thoughts. Okay, well my first thought is go graduate high school. Let me get your J G D um. Second thought is ok I have heard this before like somebody will have ah a boyfriend who is like jealous of the photographer that took a picture of them in say a bikini or in this. Case I guess Lingerie or something and I can't imagine like the worldview or or theory of mind of such a man like if you have a hot girlfriend. It just is the case that men are looking at her all the time. And you should be kind of ah you should try to be secure about that. You should be self-impressed by that and this this notion of being. Maybe they're threatened Maybe that's what's going on.
[20:49] Mike: Um, well he he's not mad at I don't know is he mad at the guy I think he's mad at his I don't know if it's wife or girlfriend or whatever for revealing the goods right.
[20:59] Keith: How I see he thinks she should. She should wear a Hijab or a bura at all times.
[21:02] Mike: So she should have been less willing. No but she should you know she should realize that that's going to happen and play defense.
[21:17] Keith: Cover Cover up.
[21:18] Mike: And she didn't sufficiently play defense and now he's his ego is bruised because of that that makes sense to me I mean ah at least theoretically.
[21:23] Keith: Yeah, but it doesn't because yeah like women like to express their beauty in the way they like present this is common and well known and. Reserving that for yourself seems sort of misguided or confused.
[21:45] Mike: Sure there was wasn't there something you said to me recently about how like the differentiation between women is more in their style choices and stuff like that than they're right? And what was the book.
[21:55] Keith: Yeah nails and shoes and fitting in to like the right level of ok, what's the word here I was it's going to say a word that like would definitely get people upset like s slightiness like you know like. Some groups of friends would all wear those like Midrift bearing like tube tops that that you know a lot of women are wearing these days and then like I think other clicks would if like somebody showed up with like a midrift bearing tube top. It would be sort of scandalous amongst the friends friend group. So there's there's these various like norms and memes that like become normalized.
[22:19] Mike: Um, brain.
[22:30] Keith: Um, its groups and and fitting into that is is pretty important.
[22:33] Mike: The end. It's all normalized like I said by the top 5% attractiveness girls women.
[22:39] Keith: Well yeah, or whoever the most attractive is in a particular friend group.
[22:46] Mike: Sure sure Well they're going. It's just comes downstream in my view from some sort of goddess level attractiveness woman or something I'm not sure exactly how that works ah but okay, so so by that logic.
[22:50] Keith: Yeah.
[23:03] Mike: Her taking her clothes off Well I guess she's showing her style choices to this photographer under what I mean she still got something on right? I Actually don't know I don't actually know what a boudoir shoot entails.
[23:18] Keith: How ah Bowar photo shoots fall under the same category as like engagement photo shoots which is I just find them totally intolerable and like how can you not be embarrassed by hiring a professional photographer.
[23:24] Mike: Okay.
[23:35] Keith: To take Instagram photos for you like that is um, at least with boudoir photos. They're semi private but a lot of times people will post them on Instagram as well. Um, yeah.
[23:35] Mike: Sure.
[23:46] Mike: Oh so they can't be nude then okay I'm looking at some examples online. Yeah, they're just ah, they're semi new I mean they're they're I guess equivalent to the woman wearing a bathing suit.
[23:57] Keith: They're meant to be tasteful or something but really, it's just an excuse to show up show off your airbrushed body.
[24:03] Mike: Here's one of a dude dude and silk boxers. That's not great, not particularly no okay ok I understand what's what's so it there is some style choice but okay I mean look she's upset because he's upset rather because.
[24:08] Keith: Yeah, you like that.
[24:18] Keith: She shared her body.
[24:20] Mike: She revealed? Yes, she revealed the the goods I Guess yeah I mean I wonder does he get upset if she goes to the gynecologist.
[24:26] Keith: Yeah I mean I think I could see the distinction here but he might I mean if if he's being consistent. He probably should.
[24:38] Mike: Right? So it's sort of tricky tricky to know when to be upset and when not to your ups your level of upsetness makes more sense to me, you just be irritated that a person chose to do this in the first place.
[24:50] Keith: Yes, yeah, it would be like why do you think this is necessary to do and then they would of course say like oh I did this for you I thought it would be a sex poster. Ah um.
[24:56] Mike: Where do you draw the line.
[25:03] Mike: Boaster right.
[25:06] Keith: Ah, yeah, and and then I would just be like I can't really on board the sort of like insecurity combined with narcissism implied by your feeling compelled to do this. It would just bothers me.
[25:18] Mike: Would would you have an issue with someone having wedding photos.
[25:26] Keith: Ah, have we not talked about this. Ah if I get married I will ah strongly insist to my partner that we tell everybody that they are not allowed to bring cameras to the yeah because.
[25:27] Mike: No.
[25:40] Mike: Um, wife.
[25:42] Keith: I just.
[25:46] Keith: I don't want the wedding to be about getting photos to show off to other people and I think that like for many women like they would never admit it to themselves but that's actually what's going on is like. Getting their like the deciding on the flowers and the hair and makeup and the dress and the nails and all of this stuff is all to collect like 12 photos that they think will like Maximally impress whoever they're trying to impress I want my wedding to be about like.
[26:13] Mike: Okay.
[26:17] Keith: Spending a good time with like friends and family and being like present in the moment and it's tricky like I kind of like the idea of like hiring a photographer and telling the photographer like telling all the guests like look just put your cell phones in this faraday cage and we'll give them back to you at the end of the wedding. Um.
[26:34] Mike: Right.
[26:37] Keith: And then we'll I'll hire a photographer and anybody who wants photos with their family because they're all dressed up. You know it's it's like a thing and then you know he can maybe he's running around taking candid photos as well. Maybe I need to hire 2 photographers to do this or whatever I just think that's like a better setup than.
[26:53] Mike: Um, oh see you you would hire a can and a photographer.
[26:57] Keith: I think I would prefer to have no pictures. But I think some people I think that's a little bit unfair to the guests imposing that on my guests. Um.
[27:01] Mike: I see is there any non sort of negative or Pejorative Rationale. You can think of that the for people having photos like you're basically that the explanation you have is people want to show off or. Yeah, like keep up with the joneses or something.
[27:20] Keith: Um, well I think that having photos to like celebrate an occasion is fine but when the occasion is just about collecting the photos which a lot of weddings really turn into that it crosses some line for me.
[27:24] Mike: Okay.
[27:31] Mike: Um, okay I see I see.
[27:37] Keith: But I recognize that like my feelings on this are very very very counterculture and almost everybody would disagree with me especially would be partners.
[27:47] Mike: I mean I think sort of extremely counterculture because so much of what people do particularly I think women now do is to post things on social media.
[27:57] Keith: I Mean even when I see pictures of weddings Now they'll be like you know the dancing photos right? and there'll be this like ring of fucking people around the bride at all times all with their like cell phones trained on her and she's like this is stupid like.
[28:15] Mike: Huh.
[28:16] Keith: We're not celebrating here. We're just collecting photos and that just doesn't seem like the point of a wedding and yeah I don't know. So yeah, that's what I think about weddings.
[28:31] Mike: Ah, yeah, it's a strong cultural commentary there. It makes sense to me The you've also told me before that you think that um tell me if if I'm getting this wrong that people will.
[28:34] Keith: Yeah.
[28:45] Keith: Um, okay.
[28:48] Mike: There are people who are somewhat common for people. The only reason they go do something is so they can take an Instagram picture of it.
[28:55] Keith: Yeah I ah you know do a lot of international travel and when I'm Lonely I will ah go to a hostel or sometimes stay at a hostel get a private room of course I don't want to spending a night with in the mail dormitory with like. 5 germans getting back from a rave at four a m but um, yeah, you'll hear.
[29:15] Mike: Have you ever have you ever stayed in the mail dorm with the guys coming back from a rae. Do you actually know that's what happens or ok, ok.
[29:21] Keith: Yeah, in my twenty s I would stay in the group rooms in hostels and like you you can't sleep at all and it's just not and getting a private room is a little bit more expensive but it's still much much much cheaper than a hotel. So and then the advantage of a hostel is like everyone there is sort of chatty.
[29:37] Mike: Um, ok.
[29:41] Keith: And it's usually a good resource for figuring out what to do in the area. Um, anyway, yeah, you'll hear people talking about where they're going to go the next day and people be like oh you can go here I got this great photo and then they'll like show each other the photo and they'll be like oh where was that and.
[29:45] Mike: Um, right right.
[30:00] Keith: Like the whole thing is about collecting the frickin instagram shot and or whatever maybe Instagram is dated now the Tiktok or real or wherever people are posting videos and photos.
[30:10] Mike: Sure sure. But this basic idea that they're they're looking the thing they're actually looking for is something they can show off to other people and make them I guess make them jealous.
[30:21] Keith: I'm not quite sure what the emotionality around that is I mean and like I'm being a little bit hypocritical here I mean you've seen my Instagram it's just packed with trouble photos. Um, but I don't know I feel like I'm balancing.
[30:29] Mike: Right.
[30:39] Keith: Something better than what I imagine other people are doing but it would be a fair critique of my position here to say like well what are what am I doing.
[30:40] Mike: Right.
[30:48] Mike: Yeah I mean for me, it's completely foreign like that wouldn't even occur to me I remember being in Hawaii going down a trail I was in maui going down a trail. Ah I'm sure it was a fairly normal like ah, a well-known spot I don't remember the name and we got down the trail.
[31:03] Keith: Um, yeah.
[31:07] Mike: Ah, it was sort of up on a mountain and there was this lady there setting up this really complicated pose with her 2 dogs. She had 2 like white sort of little poodle kind of dogs and she was and she was spending.
[31:22] Keith: Ah.
[31:24] Mike: She had like tripods and all this kind of stuff and and she was really carefully curating these pictures she was going to take and I just thought that was very odd.
[31:33] Keith: Yeah I mean for some content creators. It's a career and in that case. Bravo Um I had a ex-girlfriend who worked in marketing and they hired some content creators and she told me about.
[31:38] Mike: Um, yeah.
[31:50] Keith: Watching her and she would like in the morning she would like wake up and go down to the pool and she would have like 3 different pikinis and she had this like fancy sort of tripod setup and she would you know for like 45 minutes like go and like set up her poses and like get a bunch of different photos.
[32:00] Mike: Me.
[32:08] Keith: And she was like this woman is like actually a pro like what she's doing here is pretty impressive but that woman was actually a pro and they were paying her to to generate such content and so in that case, fine, Go go get it. Go go get it girl but like for most people that's not what's going On. It's like some sort of like pathetic attempt. Like pretend that they're that and it's I don't know I find it irritating? Yeah all right, Let's move on. Ah this person says I fucked around and found out advice needed. My wife has never been able to come from P I V only sex with me that's penis and vagina.
[32:31] Mike: Right? right? Yeah, it's strange sure.
[32:46] Keith: And a rather straight and not exactly supergirthy member. She had expressed that she wanted to try a big dildo recently. So I got a couple one of them being a really curved one anyway, this curved dildo is longer and thicker than my penis and has a really aggressive upward curve. Used this on her and she came for the first time ever from purely p I v and literally about 1 minute only this actually has destroyed my confidence now as I've had sex with her for hours before a time and she still can't get off this way I feel inadequate now and like we're not sexually compatible. She expressed she doesn't feel this way and she enjoys sex with me and that I can even throw the dildo out. If I want but I saw how it made her feel and I literally cannot make her come that way with my dick and I just can't get over it now imagining someone else with a similar shaped dick is that dildo can get her off like that. What should I do about this? Um I thought this was interesting.
[33:32] Mike: Um, right.
[33:39] Keith: I mean.
[33:43] Keith: In in some ways. It's good that most women aren't promiscuous. So by the time that most women get married. They've they've had like maybe a handful of sexual partners. But it's likely if it or probable that they haven't had someone that. Like really scratches their sexual itch in a way that like maybe this dildo can and for men it doesn't matter like men can orgasm with basically any woman. But if there is like material differences in a woman's ability ability to calm based on like penis size which there may or may not be but. This guy seems to think there is I mean what is a woman in the who you know what is the promiscuous woman that slept with 20 men and 3 of them have like you know the the right key to Unlock. You know her ability to come from PIV like wouldn't she reasonably be sort of like well all this other sex is a little bit underwhelming.
[34:49] Mike: Yeah I mean it's it's there I mean it's possible that it was just the novelty the situation. It doesn't have to be that like had some certain shape that did that sure let's um, let's imagine that there's some shape that this guy can't.
[34:57] Keith: Um I agree but for the sake of this conversation. Let's assume.
[35:07] Mike: Accomplish for anatomical reasons that is kind of a magical shape. Yeah, that's that's a difficult that's a difficult situation because I mean she'll say I I think that she's even being a little disingenuous to say look I don't care we can throw it away. But.
[35:22] Keith: Well, she might I mean for one. It's nice that she's saying that whether she believes it or not. It's sort of a good sign that she's being a good sport about it and.
[35:31] Mike: I bet she believes that I'm I'm worried about I'm not worried about her believing it at the time she says it I'm just worried about it being a realistic thing for her to be able to stick to yeah like it's a oh I know you believe it I know you think you believe this or whatever that that I'm sure.
[35:38] Keith: Yeah, hanging out in the back of her mind. Yeah yeah.
[35:50] Mike: I Yeah I'd have no reason to doubt her statement there. But yeah I mean I Just think that he yeah he has a he has sort of a problem there. Um.
[36:02] Keith: The comments here are predictable somebody says first toys are teammates not enemies. You got her a toy you gave her a piv orgasm with it. Ah, you said in another comment how loving she was after so it sounds like she really enjoyed it. You need to. Emphasized to yourself that you gave her immense pleasure I just don't think that's the right I think like his initial read is the right one which is like oh oh this is ah I've opened Pandora's box here I wish I didn't know this.
[36:19] Mike: Um, yeah I think there's a yeah.
[36:31] Mike: I Think that's a risk and I also think it's going to play on him because I ah well I appreciate the comment that person made. Um I think it misunderstands something about like male needs. Male desire is male something um I think the guys get something out of.
[36:48] Keith: Right.
[36:48] Mike: It being them that did it and it makes it does make a difference. Yeah I mean look there's a reason why some huge percentage of women fake orgasms during PIVSex it's because guys really like it. Um and interesting the toy. It's like yeah, that's true. You know that's that's all very true that you did all that stuff.
[37:00] Keith: Um, ripe.
[37:07] Mike: It's just that the yeah it would be better. It would be better if the guy's penis did it. He would enjoy it more like I mean you just think you have to be honest about that like if you're if his penis was shaped that way. Whatever that shape is ah the the bad dragon or whatever I'm not sure what the thing is that they used then he would.
[37:15] Keith: Right.
[37:23] Keith: For right.
[37:27] Mike: Then he would he would enjoy that. Yeah.
[37:29] Keith: I mean just to you know, put a finer point on this imagine you're a 30 year old woman and you married your high school sweetheart. You've only had sex with him and the sex is fine. You know you you feel bonded to him. It's nice and then. You have this experience when you're 30 with this like specially shaped dildo and you're like whoa I didn't even know it was possible to have orgasms like this this is kind of cool like she would be totally reasonable to like wonder what sex with someone else would be like and for that to like yeah.
[37:52] Mike: Me.
[38:01] Mike: Yeah.
[38:04] Keith: That that seed is now planted in a way that like I think is unlikely to be positive for the man going forward and at best at best. It'll be neutral.
[38:11] Mike: Yeah I mean I think that it I think it's certainly possible that that wouldn't matter that she would say you know oh well, there's this toy that can do this? Oh well I mostly I want to be with my partner but I think your point is that.
[38:19] Keith: Yeah, we can use it together or something something.
[38:28] Mike: Could something arise in their relationship where she would start to wonder about that. Yeah, it's like a negative. It's a mild negative that now exists that could be but but I actually think the I actually think that the guys sort of I think the thing in the guy's head is probably more important.
[38:34] Keith: Yeah.
[38:46] Mike: In terms of like if if I had to sort of do the area under the curve of the kind of total problem right? right? because he's going to. He's going to yeah and he well he he he's like oh there's this thing that I'm not getting to see there's this thing that if my body were different.
[38:48] Keith: Yeah, he needs therapy more than her at this point obsess.
[39:04] Mike: He's going to be thinking. He's going to be like searching Google at 2 a m for surgeries to make his penis have that shape put it that way or he might he might that's that's much more likely than her sitting there googling like how do I get a guy that has this shape? yeah.
[39:08] Keith: Yeah.
[39:19] Keith: Um, are upward curves and penises typical.
[39:23] Mike: I Think it's not not atypical I mean there's a variety of things that are typical. Sure.
[39:28] Keith: Well most are probably straight and then some bend left some bend right? some bend down and some bend up but in the main I think they're kind of straight.
[39:40] Mike: Sure, let's see 1 in 5 this an australian study what 5 males report a curve in their penis most did not find it to cause any problem I'm trying to see if upward curve is more likely than others I'm not sure. That I'm not getting quickly. Um.
[40:00] Keith: Can't you sort of simulate can't you change the angle of your penis you can adjust your angle of penetration.
[40:06] Mike: Probably But I think you're going to have difficulty getting it to curve upward.
[40:11] Keith: Yeah, you really want that that thing that you can do with your digits which is sort of bending at the end to get to the the G spot or the underside of the clit or whatever you want to call it back there.
[40:17] Mike: Right? It's not going to maintain its full erection if you mess with it too much right? Just a third of men with penile curvature reported. It's more than ° but it says.
[40:31] Keith: Come on. No, it's not oh, not a third of men a third of men that that have it wait 20% of men have a curved penis and 33% of them say it's.
[40:36] Mike: A third of the woods that had curvature so 20% would be 5 % though so that's pretty substantial. Yes, according to this data? Yeah, ah.
[40:49] Keith: ° or more. That's what six six plus percent that's but that's a big curve I I'm not even sure I've noticed that in porn looking at at penises.
[41:05] Mike: That's true I'm finding another study that suggests it could be less than 1% so I don't know it's going to depend on. It's going to depend on what you define as a curve. Also right? um.
[41:09] Keith: Okay, that seems that seems more in line with.
[41:22] Mike: And it could Ultimately this could come down to size too.
[41:24] Keith: I Think it's well litigated where you measure penis length from it's from the top of your shaft from your pubic bone to the tip. So I don't know if there's a similar thing for measuring curvature.
[41:33] Mike: That's right, That's right.
[41:38] Mike: Um, oh yeah, it just would be how much curvature they have right.
[41:39] Keith: You take the left and most point and the right at right at and most point.
[41:46] Mike: I'm not seeing any sort of sophisticated analyses here online but sure.
[41:50] Keith: A protractor all right? Let's move on. Um this person asks is going down on women really that bad. What's wrong with us every time I ask guys about it. They say ah, it's not my favorite but I'll do it for you. I've told men that I want to suck their dicks so often. It's ridiculous. Why do we never get to hear the same. Conversation seems to go the same way each time with each partner It's always some variation of I forgot to I asked the last man about it and he said he gets sore tired when I suggested doing it his foreplay for a minute. He was genuinely shocked like I had revealed some great epiphany for him and said I forgot that I can do that. This was after I had his dick in my mouth about 6 times that weekend all of them foreplayed for something else. I'm not too proud to say I burst into tears after that call my most recent relationship was 5 years long and in that time I got halfhearted half heartly eaten out maybe 10 times I deep throat to that man several times a weekend. But he quote always forgot. It's not personal I just forget I honestly don't believe that y'all are forgetting this much I'm clean I taste nice I've tested and also gotten good reviews from other women met a loss here. Men are always very nice about it and then seem to be surprised when I don't want them to eat me out.
[42:57] Mike: Um, ah.
[43:02] Keith: After they basically just told me it's a chore they'll put up with is it so bad that I want to save it for someone who will be enthusiastic about it is this something I'll have to get used to. Okay, so um, first of all, how can she know she tasted. She said she tested. Is there some like Ph test. You can get she did so Presumably. She's bisexual and she's asked but can you really trust? can you really trust asking. Someone's opinion on that.
[43:21] Mike: Um, well I mean then she said she tested with other women. So.
[43:28] Mike: Um I was sort of imagining.
[43:32] Mike: I was imagining like a more platonic testing like women just like me like hey what is can you smell this or put it on their finger or whatever and the other one smells and tastes it and tells them what they think I don't know it doesn't seem like a very likely.
[43:40] Keith: Right. Right? Just like when we're we're out with the guys. We always pull our pants down at compare Cox and.
[43:51] Mike: Right? Well yeah, it's it seems unlikely that happened but that's what it's she made it sound like that's what happened which is odd.
[43:59] Keith: Um, well and how would a woman know what? But how would a straight woman know what a quote unquote normal pussy tastes like I wonder if I was a woman if I would know like as you know I've never tasted my own semen I wonder.
[44:05] Mike: Well, she is what herself to taste and smells like I guess.
[44:15] Mike: Um, well, you've smelled it I think that I think it's very very very very common for women at least during sex to wind up with a man's penis in their mouth after it's been in their vagina. So yes I think it's yeah, that's not.
[44:17] Keith: I have smelled it. That's true.
[44:23] Keith: I do too? Yeah, yeah, but they're not down there with their fingers as a dipstick tasting generally or maybe they are.
[44:31] Mike: Sort of heart unavoidable.
[44:36] Mike: Ah I don't think they are typically yeah but it wouldn't be totally impossible to imagine that happening sure.
[44:45] Keith: No I think it would be more common than a man tasting his own semen for example, well anyway I reject that she can be positive that she tastes nice. She may, um, but.
[44:48] Mike: Yeah, probably oh yes I think that's right? yes.
[45:02] Keith: I Think it's kind of it's sort of a yellow flag that like every man she's ever been with is not enthusiastic about going down on her like most men aren't like that most men especially early on in sexual relationships are are quite enthusiastic.
[45:02] Mike: Um, but let's say okay look okay.
[45:08] Mike: Um, right right? Um, yeah, there's.
[45:20] Mike: Um, right? Ah so yeah I mean there's another piece here which is that um what? what did you say at the beginning like I'm I'm always asking to suck guys Dicks or something something like that I mean.
[45:20] Keith: To go down.
[45:34] Keith: Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
[45:39] Mike: So the thing about that is that's kind of an initiation of sex that a guy will appreciate. However, if a man I'm not sure if this is a hundred percent true but I think that in general. Culturally, the the expectation would be that if a guy tried to initiate sex by offering oral to a woman. It would not have this. It wouldn't work the same like she might get rejected. Yeah go ahead.
[46:04] Keith: What do you think What do you think? the general order is for ah, a woman a woman giving oral sex to a man a man giving oral sex to a woman and PIV like what do you think the standard. Ah. Itinerary is.
[46:22] Mike: Um, probably woman oral sex on man man rural sex on woman p I V I'm going to guess that right? So you have this thing That's that she causes to get initiated at the beginning of the act.
[46:24] Keith: Yeah I I think that's probably right.
[46:38] Mike: Right? And she's complaining that this thing that would be sort of in the middle isn't happening but I mean I think part of it can just be sort of sequencing and yeah and the fact that and like fear of rejection on the guy's part like if the guy if a guy thought that that was a. Like a woman knows that this is a good way to initiate sex with a man offering to suck it suck his cock if a woman if a woman if that was known that that would initiate sex with a woman then probably guys would well look I mean then that would happen all the time but you see it. It isn't.
[46:59] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[47:17] Mike: Right? So it sort of creates an asymmetry there where this is only something that can happen Once you're already kind of underway. Um, and so then it's not ah well put it put it the other way if.
[47:18] Keith: Hmm.
[47:26] Keith: Yeah.
[47:35] Mike: If putting her his penis in her mouth was not a way to initiate. Maybe she wouldn't do it Although I think she probably would I don't know.
[47:43] Keith: Yeah I don't know I feel like well ok, all right? A few things here. The first is if I think there are a large set of men who are like. Not super enthusiastic about going down on women I think this is particularly true with non-american men. Um, and if you get to a point in a relationship where you've had sex maybe 10 times and he's only gone down on you once or twice.
[48:03] Mike: Um.
[48:07] Mike: Um, okay.
[48:16] Keith: You can assume that he's one of these people that does that's not really enthusiastic about it and unless you like sort of nip that in the Bud right? then and there you're going to end up in a situation where you just basically never does and so yeah I don't know if that's what happened here like it could be that she didn't speak up enough. Or sort of guide him in that direction enough ah early on and in these relationships and then it just sort of became the pattern or there could be something wrong where men are intentionally avoiding. It.
[48:43] Mike: Right.
[48:56] Keith: But I don't think it's just I don't think the premise of her of her post which is is going down on women really that Bad. What's wrong with us like I do go down on women and I love it and I don't think her experience that like no one wants to go down on her is normal. So I'm. I'm trying to understand what's going on here.
[49:16] Mike: Well, it must be somewhat normal because this kind of question comes up a lot. You're just saying that. Yeah, you don't fit into that trend. What are some things that would make you reluctant.
[49:21] Keith: Um, yeah, that's true I mean yeah, maybe maybe I'm just really unusual.
[49:33] Keith: Um, bad hygiene is probably number one I mean there's various things I think the most common one is like not having good butt wiping hygiene and so.
[49:35] Mike: Which would be just smelling.
[49:48] Mike: Yikes.
[49:51] Keith: Yeah, you just don't want to be anywhere in that area when that's occurred, um, but and then yeah I mean there is some variation in the way that people taste. But.
[49:53] Mike: Okay.
[50:06] Keith: I Think a lot of that honestly has to do with like how attracted I am to the person but I'm not sure.
[50:11] Mike: Go on with that you you're saying that the if you're more attracted then the it's less relevant or it actually is better or the same. You know that's interesting.
[50:19] Keith: I Feel like women are more attracted to a taste better but that can't that can't objectively be true. Well I guess it could could be that like physical attractiveness is also related to like sort of something down there but that's not.
[50:28] Mike: Seems unlikely.
[50:37] Mike: Right? It's unlikely, Yes, ah yeah I mean I think that I I just suspect that because the the she.
[50:37] Keith: That's not likely. That's not ockham's razor here. It's It's likely that they're orthogonal to each other.
[50:54] Mike: These people are telling her that I forget or you know it's not right and I'm not sure. Don't you think someone would tell her like or is that is that the kind of thing you would say to somebody if you were avoiding the issue and the issue actually was that it smelled bad or there was a hygiene issue. You'd say I keep forgetting.
[51:09] Keith: I mean gosh revealing that after I mean she talks about a 5 year relationship like revealing in year four that you think they have bad hygiene would be like telling a man in year four that like you think his penis isn't long enough like it would just be so devastating as to be.
[51:28] Mike: Would be strange right? is like why didn't Why didn't you bring this up earlier. Be sort of hard to understand attacking that problem so late right? right? Yeah I don't know.
[51:29] Keith: Probably relationship ending. Yes, right. Well then it would be embarrassing for the person receiving that news.
[51:48] Mike: Um, but to the extent that it the extent that these guys are telling the truth. Then yeah I mean I could imagine it just being I mean maybe they're figuring what's the point like let's say that you have I mean if you're with a woman who doesn't orgasm from it. You figure? Whatever maybe she doesn't care. Maybe she's not doing a good job sort of.
[51:52] Keith: Ah.
[52:01] Keith: O.
[52:07] Mike: Expressing that it matters to her. Um I could see a woman concluding the same thing about giving a blow to a guy if he doesn't come from it right? It's like well this is just like a preliminary and now we've kind of gotten past that and you just want PIV and that's fine.
[52:24] Mike: So then like just low communication.
[52:25] Keith: Yeah, let me read this next topic because it's a little bit related. Okay, this person says worst sex of my life. My sex life with my partner is the worst I've ever had I blame myself for trying to quote stick it out for the first few years thinking that sex wasn't everything.
[52:29] Mike: Sure.
[52:41] Keith: I know it isn't but I'm not sure if I can spend the rest of my life having the worst and pretty much now noneexistent sex I'm a hopeless romantic and crave intimacy I've tried communicating my needs to my partner but it goes out the window. It's like they're literally just getting themselves off with my body There's no foreplay when there is he will try to get me in the mood for about. 20 to 30 seconds which clearly doesn't do shit I can't get turned on unless I spend time convincing myself that I want it. It's so unnatural I'm just a complete loss I haven't had an orgassm the entire time we've been together eight years he always wants you mentioned a man in this circumstance. He always wants blow jobs.
[53:12] Mike: Yikes.
[53:17] Keith: But I'm over here like what the fuck can I at least get wet or get off for once I'm at such a loss because I love this person. They're literally my best friend and have had my back more than anyone else in my entire life. Please any advice or recommendations is greatly Appreciated. So I wrote down here like talking points which is like. Who to blame should she speak up more and then like what percentage of sexual relationships are like this like I think women's tendency to be sort of embarrassed and shy and not speaking up might often lead to situations like this where the man. Is just sort of like taking and taking and taking until like this pattern is established where he is sort of just using her as a vagina host and you know now she like like how could she even approach like fixing this ah like if she if he read this thing.
[54:03] Mike: Um, right.
[54:14] Keith: He would be so humiliated that he would just break up with her. Um and and then well what do you think? what do you think she should do.
[54:19] Mike: Um, I'm not sure Well I'm not sure how he would react because he'd probably be so I mean there's there.
[54:25] Keith: Yeah I think he would be surprised I don't think he knows this is how I I don't think he knows this is her experience.
[54:31] Mike: Right? There's like facts not not in evidence here has she been faking. For example I'm going to guess Yes, so then she would have to reveal that that's deeply problematic right? because for obvious reasons said so the he'll turn it around and blame it on her then.
[54:35] Keith: Or right? yeah.
[54:45] Keith: Yeah, well and then also sorry, let me just say something really quick here which is if he does know and she knows he knows why is she still with him anyway right? So we almost have to assume that he doesn't know was that too complicated if he does know.
[54:48] Mike: Yeah.
[55:00] Mike: Ah, wait say that again you Okay, yes.
[55:04] Keith: Like if he's just an asshole and using her then the correcting that this conversation's over. She should just break up with him. Um, and like why didn't she seven years ago and then if he doesn't know then whose fault is it that he doesn't to know.
[55:20] Mike: That's right I mean but ultimately this probably comes down to her like indexing low on sex as an important element of the relationship right.
[55:25] Keith: Right? And now she feels now she's like sort of gotten to a point where she's fed up. It took 8 years but now she's finally there it would take a man. It would take a man eight days but it took her 8 years
[55:32] Mike: Yeah, yeah, which is difficult I don't know I don't think that's right because if you read like the dead bedroom sub or subreddit you'll find guys that.
[55:42] Keith: Oh for sure. But I she's been having sex with them this whole time seemingly and not having an orgasm for 8 years like imagine a guy you know having sex four days a week but never orgasming for 8 years like this is not.
[55:52] Mike: Um, yes.
[55:59] Mike: Yeah, that would be hard to understand right? Will it. That's yeah, that's that's actually I think never happened unless the only way that would happen is if the guy had some sort of medical condition that made Orgasm Impossible event right.
[56:02] Keith: I can't even imagine that how would that even work correct I sure sure sure sure right as we're like the 9 standard deviations out here of normal.
[56:18] Mike: He eventually would orgasm just because he wouldn't have for so long so it would happen I mean she also hasn't indicated whether she masturbates so is it like she actually has had no orgasms for 8 years or if it's she's well it matters because maybe she can't orgasm you know. So.
[56:27] Keith: Who knows.
[56:33] Keith: Oh yeah I don't know I don't know Well yeah I mean setting aside the not orgasming part. It sounds like he's not.
[56:38] Mike: It may not be his quote unquote fault. It may be like she's expecting him to solve something in her life that he can't really solve.
[56:52] Keith: Performing any foreplay and is being sort of lazy in bed generally. But I mean there's There's always a chicken and egg problem here like his experience might be like well you know the few times early on where I tried not you know nothing happened and then.
[56:54] Mike: Sure.
[56:59] Mike: Right.
[57:09] Keith: Slowly by slowly slowly you know an inch at a time and now we're at the point where like I just sort of tap you on the shoulder and you spread your legs and we have sex for 5 minutes and then it's over but like it didn't start that way I think that happens a ton. That's why that's why I put.
[57:17] Mike: I Think that happens right.
[57:24] Keith: And my like talking points here like what percentage of sexual relationships are like this like I think lack of communication early sort of might often cascade into these sorts of situations where it's just like not good.
[57:37] Mike: I think it could be more than 50% when you ask what? percentage are like this I think like it's long term relationships I think it's really really common.
[57:45] Keith: Yeah I think people are embarrassed and they have shame and like aren't good at speaking up for themselves and like don't even really know what they want they just know they're dissatisfied. You know it's just.
[57:50] Mike: Um, right.
[57:54] Mike: Right? And that's right, the thing. The woman needs is a little more complicated. She doesn't care as much or her sex drives a little lower and she's just like whatever like and just sort of decide. She doesn't care and so great. Some sort of long term resentment but it's not.. It's not sort of the hot burning resentment that a guy would have quickly right? So It doesn't so so it can go on and on and on like this for a long period of time and I think that's not uncommon. Yeah.
[58:14] Keith: Right? right? right? Yeah and an inch at a time turns into miles over the eons now.
[58:23] Mike: Right? Yeah yeah I think that's that this is like a calm I Think of all too common failure mode.
[58:31] Keith: Well and I sort of wonder if that's what was going on with the woman complaining about men not going down on her is that like she wasn't something early and then a pattern gets established and then it's just you know. Time goes by 5 years for her and I mean I don't know like and again if she is asking him to go down on her all the time and he keeps saying like oh I forgot then then what that what does she say that like stop fucking forgetting or does she just say like oh ok.
[58:51] Mike: Um, right.
[59:08] Keith: Like at some point you have to sort of like be in charge of your own pleasure and if you're not getting what you need from your partner ah tell them and see if they adjust or end it. You can't just hope that they're going to like magically reform and know what you want.
[59:20] Mike: Yeah I could see this kind of thing sort of perplexing a sex therapist like does she want does he want her to be more assertive like does just Mount Mount him basically you know sort of yeah.
[59:30] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
[59:36] Mike: Sort of have to think that the way this actually goes is the woman is pretty passive about it and so it comes up every now and then but mostly she's sort of seething about it and bothered by it. Maybe sometimes it doesn't matter like for periods of time she doesn't care and that it comes up and bothers her. Um, and so there's like a communication style thing here where it's like you need to.
[59:45] Keith: Um, yeah.
[59:55] Mike: Be assertive and ah actually tell him in a way that he can hear it. You know like what are the standard common like standard advice of like have a conversation about it when you're not having sex.
[01:00:04] Keith: Yes, yeah I mean we've mentioned this before but all of this stuff The absolute worst time to talk about it is when you're like naked and aroused because people's feelings are very easily hurt in that state like oh you never something something something. It's like that.
[01:00:14] Mike: Sure That's right, That's right. Right now.
[01:00:24] Keith: Is not going to go well, you need to do it politely and empathetically when everyone's feeling as safe as possible. Um all right? That'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary. You can send us feedback or questions to Ymmvpodat Gmail.com that's ymmvpod at Gmail.com we pay $10 for any and all feedback received so just let us know what your payment platform of choices and you can also send us questions there if you don't want us to we'll respond and if you don't want. Us to use your question on the air. Let us know and we won't thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week on your mileage may vary.

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Episode 160: Boudoir Photos, Cliché Vacation Dreams, Magic Penis Shapes, Not Going Down

Episode Transcript