Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.
[0:03] Keith: having jewels, but plug might,
[0:05] Keith: uh, give the wrong idea to this, so
[0:11] Mike: that's a really good point. So, like, maybe there could be ones and I've never looked, But maybe they have ones that have, like the Do not enter sign on it
[0:27] Keith: like the extra family feud, and it's kind of funny.
[0:34] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. I am Keith. My co host is Mike. Say hi, Mike. What's up?
[1:22] Keith: Okay, we'll get him slightly more involved than that shortly, but first, your mileage may vary is a sometimes comedy, sometimes serious show about subjects close to everyone's heart, sex and relationships. The topics we discussed come from our Internet and personal adventures. And given our dubious qualifications for discussing them, you should probably not treat this shows of primary source for life advice. That's that. That said, we think we are pretty entertaining, and we hope you agree we'd love it. If you subscribe to us on your favorite podcast staff. Just search your mileage may vary or visit us at Y m. M v pod dot com. You can also email us at Y m m v pod dot Why mm people at gmail dot com. Okay, that's a bit long. Maybe we should reconsider that. But in any case, and if you're lucky, we'll answer your questions on the show Anonymous. Of course,
[1:33] Keith: we also famously pay 10 whole dollars to anyone who provides a thoughtful feedback. So again, our email address is why MMV pod at gmail dot com. We'd love to hear from you.
[1:42] Keith: Oh, and one more note we're planning on recording significantly more regularly over the coming weeks. So that's something for you to look forward to and also a great time to tell your friends about us.
[1:49] Keith: Okay, Mike, are you aware of the hand wringing around tinder openers?
[1:57] Mike: No, I have no idea what I've literally I mean, I obviously know what tinder is, and I know what an opener is. But beyond that, I have no idea what you're talking about.
[1:58] Keith: So
[2:13] Keith: there are websites dedicated to coming up with the perfect tinder opener to solicit a response from people you've matched with. And people have all kinds of different theories. You know, the red pill group has one theory, and other folks have other theories. Um,
[2:17] Keith: I have a be tested ah bunch of things myself. Um,
[2:22] Mike: so these air comments these air specifically essentially these air tinder pickup lines,
[2:23] Mike: right?
[2:30] Keith: You matched with someone. And, you know, matching is a good sign. You know, they swiped yes, on you. But,
[2:39] Keith: you know, attractive females have, you know, dozens or hundreds of matches. And so, you know, you got to do something Thio, you know, rise to the top,
[2:42] Mike: right? Okay. Okay. I get it. Yeah.
[2:57] Keith: Eso You know, some people say you should just send a gift. You know, like maybe something with a pun in it. Like there's this one where a whale is breaching and it says, Well, hello there. Um, Jesus, does dinner
[3:02] Mike: limit the set of gifts you can send? I mean, could you can you send a dick pic is what I'm what I'm getting
[3:12] Keith: at. Question tinder bumble and hinge. Sorry. Tender and hinge do not allow sending images. Bumble does.
[3:18] Mike: But when you say ah, gift, though, they'll let you, like, select from a pre approved instead of gift. You can
[3:21] Keith: search and you can't.
[3:29] Keith: The number of dick pics that go back and forth Well, not back and forth. Forth. Uh, must be preposterous. I'm sure
[3:31] Mike: tender or something, but
[3:40] Mike: I did once have a grindr account. And I can say that at least on that one, it's obvious they go back and forth. Yeah, but not on tinder and Bumble and Hinge.
[3:50] Keith: I mean, is there some something a woman can do to sort of tell a guy to fuck off after he sends a tender pick or a dick pic?
[4:09] Mike: I assume that the normal thing is just ghosting. I have a friend here. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I apparently have a friend who recently restarted using tinder late recently and told me that, like, women are actually very appreciative that he doesn't immediately sent a dick pic, so it must be so common. I mean, actually was surprised by that. It must be so common that, like,
[4:12] Mike: just not doing it is like a pretty pretty good sign.
[4:19] Keith: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, depends on age group. And you know what? What kinds of people you're matching with, but
[4:24] Keith: yeah, I think some women get a zillion matches and three quarters of them
[4:28] Keith: just immediately launch into some sort of
[4:30] Keith: Hey, baby, what are you doing tonight?
[4:41] Keith: And I guess presumably that would get exhausting. But, like, why are those men doing that? Like it? It can't be the case that they have so many matches that they could just fritter them away like that.
[4:44] Mike: I mean, I remember Ah,
[4:47] Mike: being in a situation where basically, I would
[4:53] Mike: Onley pursue women when I was really hard up like, in other words, I would
[5:03] Mike: kind of defer it because I had other things I was doing. Eso maybe, maybe most. Maybe many guys are like that is like, you know, it's like they're like crap. I really wanna have sex soon
[5:05] Mike: and
[5:10] Mike: then they just aren't They can't They don't have the patience, right? To be willing to,
[5:16] Mike: you know, have, like, a 45 minute conversation with someone or whatever it takes. Yeah, I think they just you know,
[5:21] Keith: I'm sensitive to that to that frustration, but
[5:24] Keith: I just can't imagine.
[5:37] Keith: I mean, maybe it's the case that girls who are who are you know, as they say, D t f ah, down to fuck. Maybe they respond positively to that. If the if the guy is attractive enough.
[5:56] Mike: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the key, right? Like it's not. My impression is that most of these guys, they're not that attractive. So I'm not. That doesn't make sense to me that that would look, I don't know. Maybe they're just trolling. I'm not sure. Yeah, I I My guess, is that the success rate of that it's so low that it's close to zero. Even women that would be d T f
[5:59] Mike: probably just can't, you know, out of pride. Or like I can't I can't allow that,
[6:03] Keith: right? Like, wouldn't they prefer, like, at least
[6:08] Keith: you know, hand waving toward a little bit of politeness before getting into the logistics?
[6:13] Mike: Yeah, I know it's bizarre, but there's one other thing that I would leave out there, which is like,
[6:15] Mike: and you noticed this on them.
[6:34] Mike: You know, I noticed this on like sites like a camp sites like chatter bait like you'll be on there and chatter Bay like has you know you're watching, say, a woman or whatever. Uh, and there's a chat right in the chat. You can actually roll over which I think, I think, on chatter. But when you roll over, it actually will just bring up a little window and show you the commenters
[6:55] Mike: profile. Okay, so you have to do very much. And sometimes their profile will have, like, a video in it, Like you immediately see them. I think I don't even like you have to click. I think it just shows you. And like, sometimes it was dude beating off. And I think to myself like this man is just doing this because he likes he has a fetish for, like, foisting his dick on people. So
[6:57] Keith: maybe that Okay,
[6:59] Keith: Yeah. Maybe they like the
[7:03] Keith: outraging of people. Yeah, or the imagined coverage.
[7:16] Mike: Or it's their fetish, right? I mean, it's like, you know, just like their people are exhibitionists or whatever. Like they're like, Yeah, he's like, Oh, man, I just love it when Oh, my goodness. Like five people looked at my dick today and he just nuts all over himself. Maybe that's the thing.
[7:26] Keith: Yes. Okay. All right. I guess that's a possibility. But like General, like, it's sort of imagine that if your goal is to meet an attractive woman, it seems like a bad strategy.
[7:37] Mike: Oh, for sure. I mean, that's Yeah, like, it's not You're not going to get sex. It has to be something. There has to be some other explanation there. I think that's right. But I'm sure like this tinder opener thing must be not just about dick pics, right?
[7:42] Keith: No, I mean, well, I mean, I for starters, you can't on tinder um, but
[7:44] Mike: so what's what is? But what is the topic here? You're saying there's
[7:52] Keith: well, I've been So the one I've been using lately is I say, What's something you're over indulging in lately?
[8:11] Keith: And the reason why I say that is my thought. There is. It's it allows them to say something like They don't need to virtue signal something amazing. Like if you ask somebody something like, What's your favorite ex? That forces them to try to think of something clever like, Oh, what's your favorite drink? Right? Well, now they have toe like,
[8:30] Keith: you know, they don't want to say like grapefruit white cloth. They want to say, you know, they want to try to seem cool for some reason. It it's like put some pressure on them. But if I say what's something your overindulging and lately it doesn't need to be their favorite. They could just basically say anything and It just makes it easy. It's low friction for them to respond. So that's my
[8:35] Mike: right. You're just coming. You're You're basically it's just a conversation opener. And you have you had good success with that
[8:40] Keith: one? I think so. But, I mean, I don't know the counterfactual if I, you know.
[8:53] Mike: Well, I mean, like, let's say you try three different ones and you compare the response rate like if you did it, if you sent 20 of each, you could sort of compare. You could start to be able to compare, like, are you Have you found this one, like does better than whatever you did before. I
[9:00] Keith: feel like it needs to be more than 20 because you know, the thing that happens most of times people don't respond.
[9:06] Keith: And so, yeah, you're looking to get a lift and response rate from 5% to 8% or whatever, All right?
[9:09] Keith: And, you know, I don't get that many matches, so,
[9:16] Keith: you know, it's it's hard to measure, but yeah, empirically, and just my intuition is that it's been working pretty well.
[9:19] Keith: Good. Yeah,
[9:21] Keith: I'm gonna
[9:30] Keith: I'm going to ask you on our next episode. If you have any ideas for something. I mean, I'm sure you'll come up with some sarcastic ones, but I'm curious if you could come up with something
[9:31] Keith: that
[9:32] Mike: with a different tinder opener.
[9:35] Keith: Yeah, that performs better than mine.
[9:39] Mike: Um, something you've been overindulging in?
[9:44] Mike: Yeah. I mean, it's hard, you know, because there's multiple axes here, right? It's not just
[9:53] Mike: okay. Like it's not just response rate. Like there might be something else. You could say that would have a lower response rate, but when you get a response,
[9:54] Mike: they're really super interested.
[10:02] Keith: Well, right. So, for example, sending a dick pic probably is a super super super low response rate. But when you do get a response, it's probably a pretty good sign.
[10:05] Mike: No, it's not, because it means it's a great guy.
[10:08] Keith: Fine. But you understand what I'm saying?
[10:20] Mike: Yeah, it's It's well, okay, but but no, I was thinking like you could have something very polarizing, right? It could be something political, something religious, like they're things that would like you could, like, micro target the person.
[10:24] Mike: Yeah, like you make a science out of it. And so there's that.
[10:33] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I'll try to compliment something. So, you know, like maybe somebody and a bunch of their pictures has, um, you know,
[10:55] Keith: really nice. A collection of sunglasses or something, you know, like so I could say something I wish I was. Half is good at anything as you are at picking dope sunglasses, which, which one's your favorite and that, you know, since they clearly like sunglasses might have. But, you know, the other thing is, yeah, if you spend a bunch of time like obsessing over what to send someone.
[11:01] Keith: But like I said, most of the time, they never respond. So you'll, you know, you just get sort of bummed out.
[11:06] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I don't think I'm so good at this. Like the last time I was on tinder, I was chatting with some girl and
[11:07] Mike: ah,
[11:20] Mike: I was something about like I started riffing. This isn't even true. But I started riffing on how I claimed I was ah, hunter and like to shoot lots of animals. And she was like a vegan. It was just disastrous. It was It was like,
[11:28] Keith: Yeah, it was terrible conversation. That pattern is not going to go well with basically anyone in the booth. Of course I
[11:38] Mike: wasn't. You know, I was I was on there just for a lark, right? So I was actually trying to get anywhere, But it was amazing how quickly, like generally, I think the advice is like
[11:50] Mike: because women have attractive women. Probably all women honestly have so much choice on tinder, you have to walk this really thin line of not offending them. And if you offend them, even a tiny amount of that first, like 10 messages, it's over. I
[11:56] Keith: mean, there's 100 men beating down the door like I think it's an attractive woman. The experiences
[12:07] Keith: almost everyone they swipe on has already swiped Yes, on them. It's like, Oh, congratulations, you have a match. Congratulations. You have a match. And, you know, maybe that's not exactly right. Maybe it's only 30% but for me it's
[12:11] Keith: 2%. You know there's no
[12:11] Keith: Yeah,
[12:15] Mike: you have to swipe right 50 times to get one match.
[12:35] Keith: I pay for tender so I can see people who have liked me before you avoid that. E just it saves time, right? But but importantly, tender stops showing you two other profiles. If you don't actually swiped from time to time so that you can sort of
[12:41] Keith: there's some. There's some amount of swiping you need to do to get them to still show you the other people. And I'm not sure what the limits are on that I haven't
[12:47] Mike: experimented with it. You have to play. It's like you have to play the slot machines. Some otherwise, like you just aren't in the
[12:53] Keith: Yeah, Yeah. At some point, maybe we should do an episode on like how I think all the different APS work on my observations. Since I
[12:55] Mike: e I mean you
[13:02] Mike: If there is somebody that has higher expertise, then you I would be impressed because I don't think people have made the level of science you have out of it. So,
[13:05] Keith: yeah. I mean, I've spent some time,
[13:10] Keith: you know, experimenting with a bunch of different things I thought about, you know, creating my own app. Yeah, I've spent and
[13:18] Mike: sure, mostly recently, this is all about, like, different, just just the life experience of different vaginas.
[13:30] Keith: Yeah, I enjoy dating. Um, yes. All right. Okay. I'm going to move on to our first Reddit topic here, and it's it's one that
[13:33] Keith: I've been talking to you for the better part of a decade. About so
[13:41] Mike: for sure. This is one of my favorites ever since the incident where a friend told me that will go on and I'll say my comment in a minute.
[13:49] Keith: Yeah, your questions to the end. Okay, so, uh, the subject is do you stare at the butthole during doggie?
[14:16] Keith: Uh, this is written by a woman. Mainly a question for dudes having sex with women. But anyone is free to reply. I'm a woman, and I just heard today that men like to stare at the asshole while hitting it from the back. I am mortified. I hate my butthole and the fun of someone staring at it. L m a o. It's always clean, and I like to shave everything, but the thought just makes me so insecure. Do normal people bleach there, asshole? For this reason, should I be bleaching my asshole? Man, this in focus has me all kinds of fucked up.
[14:21] Mike: I like the I just I like the fact that she hates her butthole
[14:22] Mike: makes me happy. Somehow.
[14:26] Keith: I think most people are not
[14:30] Keith: thrilled about having their butthole inspected.
[14:30] Keith: Yeah,
[14:33] Mike: I mean, that's why, like, I mean, I don't think
[14:37] Mike: I think the rate of colonoscopies is lower than it ought to be.
[14:43] Mike: Uh, you know, uh, people if you know, people don't want to go to the proctologist. Yeah.
[14:51] Keith: I mean, part of that I don't want You don't want something shoved up there, but I think part of it also is like butthole Shame. Yeah, I think so.
[14:53] Mike: Yeah. They just don't want to deal with that. I mean,
[15:02] Keith: that's right. Men don't really have to deal with this. There isn't a sexual position where heterosexual men don't have to deal with this. There isn't a sexual position where they
[15:07] Keith: for their butthole is on display. Usually,
[15:13] Keith: I think, actually, if there were, like, how do you think you would like? How would you feel about it
[15:16] Mike: if I was?
[15:21] Mike: Yeah, I don't I've never really thought about that. I mean, for a gay man, this would come up a lot, right?
[15:25] Mike: Yeah, yeah. Eso I'm sure there's an answer to that question. I don't have like,
[15:29] Keith: Yeah, it's a little bit different for a gay man because
[15:34] Keith: there's probably all kinds of preparation and stuff
[15:36] Mike: also. Well, there's another thing, Which is that,
[15:37] Keith: But you know, this is actually
[15:46] Mike: not a difference, though, for a gay man, like in many cases, I would imagine there Butthole is sexualized, which is true for a woman to so in that sense, like there is this is that, by the way, the
[15:50] Mike: argument I have this friend was like this question of whether there's like a
[15:55] Mike: He said There is no standard of beauty for the butthole. And I was like, I'm not so sure about that. Like, I think like, actually,
[16:00] Mike: I think there are men who, like, sit around looking at pictures of butt holes. I mean, like, Oh, that one's really pretty.
[16:06] Keith: Yeah, I think so too. Well. And there's like an epidemic of shaving and bleaching.
[16:14] Mike: Sure. Well, you could. One man's epidemic epidemic is another man's, like something positive. I can think of the work.
[16:16] Mike: Yeah,
[16:21] Keith: sure it's Yeah. I mean, whether it's good or bad is debatable, but
[16:23] Keith: yeah, I mean, I think this
[16:37] Keith: I mean, I think this extends to lots of stuff, like, I think, in strip clubs, like I think you know, some strippers, you know, probably don't like having their asshole inspected, and yeah, I mean, I think this is definitely a thing. Yeah. I mean, the thing that
[16:51] Mike: I've noticed the most on this topic on Reddit is that it appears to be the case, and this is really hard to believe, but may maybe this kind of put this down to like, women not really watching porn as much as men. And, uh,
[16:59] Mike: just not thinking carefully. But I consistently when this type of question comes up, see women basically acting surprised that people could see their buttle.
[17:07] Keith: Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me at all. Like, I feel like if I was on my hands and knees and had my ass in the air, I would be.
[17:09] Keith: But maybe this is just my
[17:12] Keith: you know, maybe that's just my privilege showing I don't know
[17:20] Mike: your male privilege. Yeah, I mean, and also like, you gotta figure I'm not. I haven't really thought about this carefully, but you have to figure that like women,
[17:28] Mike: a woman who's been sexually active long enough has had a situation where maybe she's sort of holding in some poop or something while in the dog like that.
[17:31] Mike: So she knows that like she knows there's something like her. Butthole is
[17:37] Keith: active like given enough like, Yeah, Doggystyle encounters there must have been. She's
[17:38] Mike: just aware of the fact
[17:41] Keith: that a current to her, in that moment at least once
[17:50] Mike: exactly exactly where she's like. Oh, like there this is exposing me. And I also have something else that needs to happen there. Yeah, right.
[18:02] Mike: So it's Yeah, it's a little bit tricky to understand, like, anyway, but I have encountered this type of question where they seem like, really confused about. And this will. Actually, this particular question is about like, Oh, guys like looking at it,
[18:07] Mike: which I don't, um I always interpret that I'd be interesting. Your interpretation. I always interpret.
[18:22] Mike: It's to me. It's not the guys, okay? I'm sure they're men that find it beautiful and like toe compare them and there's some tinder for but holds out there. But I think that most of the time in my psychology, it's that men have a drive to penetrate women thio
[18:24] Mike: to sort of like
[18:33] Mike: possess them. And so, like looking at their butthole is sort of invasive in a certain way, and men like that, it's like the psychological thing.
[18:34] Keith: Yeah,
[18:40] Keith: I feel like when I'm having sex doggy style, I actually
[18:44] Keith: probably sort of intentionally avoid looking because
[19:14] Mike: you drink, you drape it with a cloth. No, Z, you have You ever wear a diaper or like or maybe No, actually, this is an interesting thing. Would you? Because I've noticed that one of the ways that I think I defeated this friends argument that, like, there's no standard for beauty is the fact that then subsequently, in the last say, 5 to 10 years like you start seeing a significant amount of porn, particularly amateur porn, where women have these like, but plugs that have, like a little jewell in them, which I think shows that they're trying to, like, hide their buttle. So would you rather the woman were that?
[19:14] Mike: I
[19:27] Keith: don't know. He let me finish my original point, which is I avoid looking because I'm afraid I'm going to see something I don't like. So, like, I don't know, like, maybe they didn't clean properly last time they use the restroom. Did you think
[19:29] Mike: you would smell that more than see it?
[19:36] Keith: I mean, that would also be a concern, but yeah. Oh, okay? You're saying I should I should trust my nose.
[19:45] Mike: Yeah. I feel like if there's no scent, it's very unlikely because, like, what object would be there? You know, what object would there be there? That wouldn't smell
[19:48] Mike: like, I guess, Like a kernel of popcorn or something,
[19:53] Keith: E. I mean, it could
[20:05] Keith: look, I don't know. I don't I don't actually know. Like what The life cycle of, like, who crossed it around your asshole is. But if it's dry, doesn't it, like, give off less sent?
[20:08] Mike: I don't know. I will say this, uh,
[20:16] Mike: have enough memories of being prepubescent, having being hairless Essentially, that I remember when I was hairless, wiping my butt was a lot easier.
[20:25] Mike: Was was like it was much. It was clear. So I I under generally think that women it's easier for women to clean their butt holes. The men. I'm interesting feedback on the general
[20:28] Keith: view. Some women have
[20:30] Keith: hair there.
[20:33] Mike: Yeah, that's true. That's true. And that that's I think I
[20:44] Keith: actually don't know. I don't know what the normal amount is for two reasons. One, nobody has any in porn generally. And to like I said, I sort of avoid looking. And so
[20:51] Keith: I don't have, like a good library in my mind of, like what the butt holes look like on my previous sexual partners,
[20:59] Keith: right? I think people might. I think other people are not as averse to looking as I am. And so, you know, like maybe we could get someone on the show who knows more about this?
[21:09] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I would say that like, it's not that I would be averse to looking. It's just like it's unremarkable. I think that's why I say that for me. I think it's a much more psychological event. It's like,
[21:18] Mike: Yeah, some sort of like men want to, like, possess the woman or sort of like, uh, intrude. It's the words, a better word for that. But sort of like, you know,
[21:24] Mike: you know, it's like, Oh, there's this thing, this nasty thing I could do do I like root, like I think at core, I think that's
[21:34] Mike: like anal sex, for example, for the man. I think really, it's about that, like it's not that it feels better. So much is it's just like, Look, this is this thing that that's even Mawr intrusive that I could do to a woman. And that's appealing.
[21:44] Keith: But arguing by extremes here you can see there is some way a butthole could look that the man would be. It would be like, No, no, thanks.
[21:49] Mike: Oh, absolutely. Okay, I think that's rare,
[21:50] Mike: huh?
[21:57] Mike: That's right. I like that because that would require, like, a serious lapse of hygiene. And I think generally women are
[22:01] Mike: more on the more hygienic conscious side of things.
[22:07] Keith: What I think is, actually, if they're gonna put anal sex on the menu, they probably,
[22:08] Keith: um
[22:19] Mike: absolutely, Absolutely. Then it's like a serious problem. Yeah, I mean that, like, get to the extent possible. I think they would at least one the EXT year. Like, there's another thing along this that I run across
[22:24] Mike: really often on the sex subreddit that I find somewhat mystifying, which is, like,
[22:28] Mike: I think there's an upsurge culturally
[22:32] Mike: among a certain age group of anal Angus.
[22:35] Mike: They'll be, you know, eating ass or whatever. And like these people,
[22:47] Mike: uh, it's hard for me to understand. Like how these people ah, large number of people seem to really get into that and are not are less worried than I think they should be about the hygiene aspect of that.
[22:52] Mike: Hm. I like just just watching our e think
[23:00] Keith: there is an uptick. I mean, how would you even look? It's into it. Here's why. I think that it's my,
[23:17] Keith: you know, cruising around. I'm various sects forums and read it and looking at porn. And yeah, like I feel like my intuition is that there has been an uptick. So let's, let's stipulate for the like, sake of this conversation that that that's true, that young people are doing it more.
[23:19] Mike: Why?
[23:24] Mike: Well, I mean, the only answer I have is that same one about like, it's amore
[23:33] Mike: like for the man. It's like another way to sort of penetrate and then But there's also like I like. I think I saw a question on the sex subreddit today
[23:42] Mike: where it's like a woman's like, Oh, my man wants me to give him an a Lingus thio Eat his ass, They say, Eat his asked to which is make. They're trying to make a grocer e
[23:49] Keith: No. You struggle with the phraseology around various genitalia licking activities.
[23:54] Mike: Well, yeah, it's just like it doesn't it's not helpful in my view to make it grosser than it already is. Like,
[23:55] Keith: which isn't to say that
[24:16] Mike: it's just gross. It's just like you can make it gross if you say the right things. Like, for example, if the expression for Anna Lingus became, like, you know, tasting poop or something like, Hey, I'm gonna use, um, poop tasting tonight, then. Or you could think of something worse. Like, I'm gonna do some diarrhea, diving or something. Like, really? Like, Why would now I really don't want toe.
[24:25] Keith: Okay, fine. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, anal anal lingus dating a better PR campaign notwithstanding,
[24:27] Keith: Why,
[24:30] Keith: like what
[24:31] Keith: it's
[24:41] Keith: forcing your partner to do something that is that they would never do when not aroused, is sort of like amusing, I guess. Like as like a
[24:42] Keith: power play.
[24:44] Keith: But
[24:50] Keith: I feel like I feel like I feel like a bunch of younger people would tell us that we're being square and we're not understanding, you know
[24:53] Mike: how how pleasure works. And I totally disagree with that, because I don't
[24:56] Keith: e explain that
[25:02] Mike: because, like, if somebody saying Hey, baby, I want you to
[25:37] Mike: get a vibrator and jam it up there and rub my prostate with it. I mean, at least there there's, like, some discernible advantage. Like maybe the guy has maybe a He's curious about it. Maybe be he's done with our partners by himself, and he's like, This feels good to me. Okay, I just honestly have a hard time believing That's just rimming. That's what they call it rimming there. Ugo, I have a hard time believe that that to me strikes me. Is Onley degrading? Especially if you have a hairy asshole? Yeah, so it could be like, Hey, look, I know I look like Chewbacca down the cruise on it.
[25:50] Keith: I can't imagine rimming feeling okay, right? Like a little bit of pressure around. My asshole is nice, but, like, I don't think it's significantly better or even better at all than using a finger.
[26:01] Mike: E. I don't think there's any possible scenario where you would like that. I mean, wouldn't you be worried about like their tongue is on your butthole? Wouldn't you be worried about something escaping your butthole with that instead? You in particular
[26:09] Keith: e want to be clear here like I am not interested in receiving in a Lingus. Um nor am I interested in giving Wait,
[26:11] Mike: wait. I could No, I could see it.
[26:15] Mike: I disagree with that. I could see it, but I'm just saying that it would purely be
[26:25] Mike: dominant submissive play. It wouldn't be because it's gonna feel good. It would be because that's like, Ah, and also. And there's another important thing for me, which is
[26:31] Mike: there would have to be some significantly long timer that would have to run between then and when I would kiss her next
[26:48] Mike: e o months. No, but it would be No, but it would be like probably 12 to 24 hours. Or maybe if there was, like, hard alcohol involved. Thio. It's just kind of gross, man. I don't want to eat my own poop. Yeah, but
[26:50] Keith: I could see what I could, but the point is, I could see it. It's a
[26:58] Mike: psychological thing. I could see it is a psychological thing. I have a hard time seeing it is like a pure pleasure thing. The prostate thing I could understand. At least it's like, Okay, you're
[27:01] Mike: there's this thing that really feels good. Okay, fine.
[27:02] Keith: Yeah,
[27:05] Keith: yeah,
[27:11] Keith: yeah. I could imagine giving it if I was sufficiently aroused, and they really wanted me to.
[27:14] Keith: Um
[27:15] Keith: but
[27:20] Mike: so you mean, I assume when you say sufficiently aroused because you need to be,
[27:24] Mike: you need to overcome the disgust reaction. That's right.
[27:40] Mike: Do you think, Let's say you maybe this is doesn't work. I was gonna say, Let's say you're not that aroused, but the woman's really, really attractive. This is this thing of like, you have some absolutely revolting comment you like to say about eating the corn out of someone's poop or something, right? What is that? What
[27:48] Keith: is that expression? There's some expression about like, if you're so attracted to someone, you would eat the corn out of their out of their poop.
[27:56] Keith: And, yeah, like, the notion is like like you're so attractive that like, yeah, basically anything that gets you any tiny amount of contact with them is rousing.
[28:14] Mike: Yeah, Okay, so I mean, well, okay, but that's that. This is not interesting, because it's still arousal, right? It's like the woman being hyper attractive and you being hyper aroused is the same thing on some level, right? So, yeah, they're strongly correlated. Exactly. Okay, So you're saying that, like, for the right woman for the right level. Arousal you could imagine
[28:23] Mike: going down there. But I assume that, like, let's say you got a sweet taste of some poop on your tongue. They would quickly dissolve, like, could be a problem. Then
[28:28] Keith: I'm not sure how I would react in that situation.
[28:30] Mike: I think I know how you'd react.
[28:34] Keith: It depends. I mean,
[28:50] Keith: if I'm like, you know, four standard deviations, more aroused than usual, like maybe I would just be like, you know, like you know, it's like picking a hair out of your teeth when you're going down on someone, you know, and you just move on. I don't know. I haven't been in that situation. It doesn't sound great,
[28:51] Keith: but you're saying
[28:54] Mike: with all these different chicks, this that your many
[28:57] Mike: your frequent visits to the tinder
[28:59] Mike: swimming pool
[29:05] Mike: that you have not encountered a woman who kind of like was like, Hey, like, I really like the tongue down there.
[29:05] Mike: Not at
[29:09] Keith: all. I have not okay, because because it really
[29:11] Mike: is fairly common on the sex of red.
[29:17] Keith: No, I think people need to. Well, for starters, I think there's like an age thing there, but then also I think
[29:22] Mike: you're young. Young. You think that really young women like their butt holes licked? I would think
[29:26] Keith: e think they think
[29:34] Keith: that, like, this is a new thing and like the sex playbook and everyone does it. And this is what the cool kids dio
[29:46] Keith: Yeah, right, It could be. That could be I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And maybe expert moved. I said this at the beginning. Yeah. I mean, I said this at the beginning of this conversation that I'm stipulating that there's been an increase in this. Maybe that's not the case.
[29:50] Mike: No, I think there has. I mean, there's certainly uninterested in interest.
[29:56] Mike: Um, yeah, Maybe it's just like another thing to do or something like that. It's It's hard for me to understand it. I
[30:24] Mike: there's a There are women who say, Hey, I get orgasms from anal sex and I really love it, but I think that usually is from penetrative. Not from rimming around. I'm not sure, but that being said like maybe some amount of pressure there feels good. I don't know. Yeah, it certainly feels violating right And that the psychological dimension I actually feel like I totally understand, like right. It's just this thing that sort of nasty you can do to someone, and it's like a that right that makes
[30:31] Keith: yeah. I mean, I've been conditioned to if there's any foreign, anything near that Teoh immediately squirm. Well, that's
[30:43] Mike: because you're not You're not a submissive man. I mean, you're you're not extremely submissive. You know what I mean? Like, that's not your kink. But if you were, like, really super submissive, that would be a way to make you submit right is to jam things up your butt.
[30:49] Keith: Yeah, maybe. But even if I were, like, probably the first five times would be kind of weird. Like you still have toe.
[30:54] Mike: They probably really good. If you were submissive, You're like, Oh, man, I'm getting things of my but
[30:57] Keith: what I'm missing my whole life. I e
[31:04] Mike: I don't have those feelings, but I think I can I think that that makes sense to me in the same sense. Like they're people that like to be
[31:14] Mike: tied up in various ways, you know, like there's there, these various things and they get a lot out of being like, restrained and controlled in that way, and I could make some sense to me, like e can. I can imagine it.
[31:22] Keith: Okay, so just pulling it all the way back. Do you have any advice for women who are concerned about men staring at their butt holes during doggie? I think they
[31:26] Mike: should jam in that butt plug with the jewell on it. Right?
[31:31] Mike: They could have, like, a little, uh, like, for example, if you're Ah, if you're a Christian, you could have a cross
[31:32] Keith: on it.
[31:36] Keith: It's like you're you're saying to use that as, like, a hasty basically,
[31:36] Keith: Yeah,
[31:43] Mike: like, you know, kind of Let's say you have, like, some. It's like a football team you like. You have, like, the Raiders.
[31:46] Keith: What if
[31:54] Keith: don't you think that might imply to the partner that they're like the reason why they don't like having their butthole looked at is probably because they're not into anything
[32:00] Keith: in or around that area having jewels? But plug might,
[32:02] Keith: uh, give the wrong idea to this, So
[32:09] Mike: that's a really good point. So, like, maybe there could be ones and I've never looked, But maybe they have ones that have, like the do not enter sign on it
[32:11] Keith: like the extra family feud, and
[32:27] Mike: it's kind of funny. It's like, Okay, I've never seen that important, but it makes sense, right? I mean, it's like, Oh, I get it. You're no angel girl. Yeah. No, I mean, other than that. Like I mean, like there. I think that this is like in the category. Like,
[32:36] Mike: I think that this is a thing women have to deal with, right is they have these body parts that are that men are like, hyper aware of and hyper attracted thio. And they just have to like,
[32:49] Mike: at some age, women after young women girls have to deal with the fact that, like, they're these things. And I think a lot of times, like I've always imagined, like most of these body parts, they're not super comfortable with its like, guys wanna look at their boobs all the time, But actually like
[32:59] Mike: unless you're wearing a broad stuff, that makes him look a certain way that a lot of you know, most women like they're kind of floppy and not that great looking. I think they usually look better and like clothing.
[33:15] Mike: Uh, just they just have more supportive and stuff like that in their bodies generally, or like that. I mean where you know a man's body, like you can get into good shape and it's very tight. So it's like, no matter what you do, your body sort of looks the same. Women aren't like that, right? And so women have to, like, come to terms with the reality that, like, there's all this stuff they're not comfortable with
[33:27] Mike: and dudes, they're going to stare at it all the time. And so I just got in that category. I mean, their vaginas are pretty to look at, either. They know that. You know, in general, it's kind of like a yeah. I mean, yeah. Okay,
[33:37] Keith: Yeah. I wonder what my level. I mean, if I were a woman, I would have the same level of awareness of all these realities. I wonder if I would feel insecure about them. I bet I would, based on
[33:38] Keith: I generally think that
[33:47] Mike: I think this is like one of the roots of like why women are insecure about all this stuff. And maybe it even relates to like wearing makeup and stuff like there's a lot of, like body insecurity.
[34:17] Keith: Okay, Yeah. All right. Let Z move on to to more entertaining pastures. Okay, so Alright, this e thought that the previous conversation might dovetail into this, but I'm kind of did. I'm gonna hear Alright. Taking it all off down south I was waxing my pubic hair regularly into a neat triangle landing strip area. Had a new boyfriend, a 38 year old man who told me unprompted that every other woman he had ever had sex with had shaped everything. It's crazy to think any man would prefer anything else in 2020.
[34:25] Keith: I told him that most men I've been with have been have just been happy to be there and have basically told me to keep it. However, I like just clean indeed. Of course.
[34:44] Keith: Frankly, I told him I sometimes go all bear but prefer more woman. The more womanly look in my thirties he went so far in proving me wrong is to Google and bring up a article about Ben's preference to show fully, fully shaved was the top choice. Note that whatever she prefers is long as it's neat was not an option. My crazy for thinking He's a huge asshole and inappropriately shamed me
[34:51] Keith: that you should never brought up how his excess cream their pubes, that expressing a preference for fully shaved could have been done in a much nicer way.
[34:57] Keith: I get that people have preferences, but I think he's an ass.
[34:58] Mike: Yeah, I mean,
[35:00] Mike: I mean, he's right,
[35:03] Mike: Like like Like that's where the culture is is
[35:06] Keith: right that the current beauty standard is fully shaved. Yeah,
[35:11] Mike: absolutely. I mean, it's, like so like like I mean Okay, So,
[35:26] Mike: uh, yeah, let me be the asshole here for a second. Am I in the asshole? Yes. Let's switch this conversation over just for a second to armpit hair. Mhm. Right then everything he said would she would have just been like, Oh, yeah, of course. Right,
[35:31] Mike: So it's like so on some level, like he's just saying, Look, I have this expectation of how women look,
[35:40] Mike: that they're going to groom themselves in a certain way and like he's in his life. It's so widespread that it's gotten there, that it's just the same as armpit hair, right?
[35:57] Mike: I understand her point. You know, she's like, Look, I have this personal preference and yeah, of course he should deal with it differently. But, like I just think like, Yeah, the reality is she's like in this culture where that's that's the way it is. And maybe she, at some point in her life, was among people where it wasn't that way. And so she doesn't have that expectation.
[36:00] Mike: But so I mean, I sort of see both sides here.
[36:11] Keith: I have some questions. What is the benefit for a woman toe have, like a triangle of pubes and everything else shaved
[36:13] Keith: clean?
[36:19] Mike: Oh, I can answer that. I I feel like I know the answer to this one s o first of all, like, uh,
[36:24] Mike: okay, like there is a Bennett. There's an actual practical benefit.
[36:26] Mike: Uh,
[36:49] Mike: just like for a man for a man, I think it's reasonable to say that there's a benefit to, like, kind of shortening or maybe say, shortening the hair that's right around the shaft of your cock because it actually like that hair. Let's let's hear getting a blow or you're having sex like that hair er actually interact like it does something right. Za practical benefit there. Okay. Similarly, for a woman, there is a set of hair.
[36:57] Mike: Well, let's take her butthole like previous conversation, like it makes it easier to wipe her. But if you have no hair there around her labia,
[37:09] Mike: you know it it's easier to sort of, like, keep it tidy because you don't have hair catching stuff. Now there could be a downside to that. That, like the hair, is, you know, part of the cleaning mechanism. I've read people saying that, too. So
[37:19] Keith: maybe it helps with avoiding chafing in some way right now. Okay. So, e think you heard me. My question is, why would you keep triangle?
[37:23] Mike: Yes, you know me. Finish eso
[37:48] Mike: removing, removing that hair both from men and women. The part around the shaft or whatever is like takes time and order sort of painful if you're doing waxing. And particularly, like if I was going to get my pubic area waxed, I think the part I would be the most worry about is, like, kind of like the region just north of the shaft, like where there's a fair amount of hair and it's kind of like it's almost like north head above, above. Yes, yes, like they're better. I
[37:53] Keith: feel like that would be the least painful like I feel like scrotum would be the worst.
[37:58] Mike: No, because the the hair follicles on your scrotum are way less dense,
[37:59] Mike: right? I mean, like like
[38:03] Keith: Yeah, but maybe there's more nerve endings on my scrotum than I don't
[38:20] Mike: think so. Like like you've seen the 40 year old Virgin right where they were waxing his chest. Yeah, but that's what that's what the part just north of your cock looks like. It's like It's like it's basically like your head hair like, Can you imagine waxing your head hair?
[38:28] Mike: There's just too many. There's like every millimeter there's a fucking follicle. And so your I don't even know if it would work. It would be so horrible. So, like, yeah, but
[38:36] Keith: if you function, it's a function of nerve ending density, nerve ending sensitivity and hair follicle density.
[38:40] Mike: I gotta be honest. I suspect for many years of
[38:51] Mike: adjusting my scrotum that actually your balls have less. Look, if there was hair on the tip of your Penis, obviously I wouldn't want that waxed.
[38:57] Mike: So if I had like a bearded, bearded cock or a mustachioed cock, I would be like a all right honey. That's how it is,
[39:08] Mike: But I got to be honest. I also think that I just think it's a function of the follicle density. I think that on your scrotum, the follicles or maybe every quarter inch, half inch, I'm not sure.
[39:15] Mike: And but right north of your cock, whatever that your pubic bone area or whatever there it's very dense. And so so the point is like,
[39:22] Keith: No, I understand your point given, Given that you think that that's the most sensitive area, there's value and not waxing it or Or
[39:52] Mike: let me be your you may be a mawr experienced sexologist than our listeners. Uh, so just for their benefit, Yeah, So the issue is like you're basically asking some a woman, too. Remove the hair on this area. That is pointless from her perspective because it doesn't even interact with the actually sexually active part of her body. And it's it's like hard now that being said, like, if you're shaving, it's probably easier to shave that part right, because it's just straight. So there's so there's not too like there's a flip side to it, but like,
[40:03] Mike: yeah, I mean like I have all. I also wonder sometimes whether like having a tuft of hair there might like help her underwear sort of not might help with that. I'm not sure about that.
[40:11] Keith: Or maybe, or maybe they get, you know, maybe she gets ingrown hairs there and you know, she doesn't want to deal with that.
[40:18] Mike: Yeah. I mean, there's like a Siris of sort of, like, annoying things like that that could go on easily. And so I just think, Yeah, like there's a that's
[40:33] Mike: right And honestly, like, from the man's perspective, this is where I think, like the guy is kind of being unreasonable. He is being unreasonable in this, in this sense, like, I don't know why the guy would care. Like the main reason a guy should or would care here is that it makes giving oral sex like terrible.
[40:37] Keith: So So I have some thoughts on this, so
[40:46] Keith: it makes it different, right? Like when the girl has a full bush, you know, it's there's definitely hair involved while you're going down on them,
[40:49] Keith: and
[40:57] Keith: but I'm not sure if it's e don't have Terrible is the right way. It's just different. E guess it's,
[41:00] Keith: I guess I Yeah, I guess I would prefer there not to be
[41:02] Keith: that much
[41:09] Keith: hair there. But do you think it affects the experiment? The experience, the experience for the woman?
[41:13] Mike: Which part of the experience like her Just everyday life experience or like sex?
[41:23] Keith: Well, eso both, but I meant sex, I e I think for every day Well, yeah, let's do sex first.
[41:27] Mike: And which part of your your saying getting it all versus, like, a triangle?
[41:36] Keith: No. Yeah. So do you think that the experience of receiving oral sex is different if they have a full Bush versus the triangle? Doesn't matter for the sake of this. Yeah, I
[41:41] Mike: think there is a difference because it just just like for the guy, if you haven't
[41:56] Mike: trimmed, have done been reasonable with it, sort of area around the chef like it's highly likely that, like, she's just gonna be stopping all the time to pick hairs out of her mouth. So there's just this kind of crappy nonsense that goes on right, that it's light and also you're probably going to get blowjobs less
[41:58] Mike: right.
[42:02] Mike: So, like, I think, yeah, I think she has an incentive for that part. But the other part It's like
[42:12] Keith: So what? What's going on? What was going on? And like the sixties and seventies, when when full bushes were in were like men going down on women less during that time?
[42:14] Mike: I don't know the answer to that.
[42:49] Mike: I also don't know there's like Okay, yeah, like there's a few things that right? A. I'm not actually sure that they don't know what the standard of beauty Waas like. I don't think any like it's hard to know that, like, people say confidently tell you will look at the porn. Okay, But like, maybe that was some sort of women power feminist thing that was actually a reaction was something. I mean, look, if you look at, like in the 19 fifties, like old kind of golden age of cinema, movies like the women would shave off their entire eyebrow and draw it in with a line with a marker, right? So for also like those women doing that kind of stuff, like I gotta think maybe they were just shaving everything right.
[42:52] Mike: I think you have to go back further than that toe like,
[43:00] Mike: you know, there was a time, obviously, before women would shave their armpits and like, I think you've to go way back to that to be certain that they weren't doing anything
[43:07] Mike: right. And then it was just like the standards were so different, right? I mean, it's like nobody did any hygiene. Like people also didn't bathe. So
[43:21] Keith: yeah, well, I mean, I think there's been Yeah, like as women have gotten more power and sexual relationships, I'm sure the number of men who are going down on women has gone up some massive amount over the last 100 years.
[43:35] Mike: And those and those things could be related. It could be very simply that, like, uh like, Yeah, there's a There's a I have no idea I don't have any facts here. But there's obviously a narrative. There's a narrative kind of feminist narrative that, like
[43:47] Mike: removing hair, is like this kind of anti woman thing. But it could actually the opposite. It could be that, like, as people started having sex in other ways and not just missionary penetrative sex, like maybe women
[43:54] Mike: wanted to remove their hair because, like they, you know, it made it more fun and stuff like that. And I have no idea, like I just don't know what the right narrative is there.
[43:57] Keith: Yeah, I don't know either. Yeah,
[44:03] Mike: we're gonna go together, though, Like the change in the social mores and this stuff happening happened around the same time. So
[44:12] Keith: right, Yeah, like, I sort of suspect that having less hair makes the experience of receiving oral sex better.
[44:16] Keith: Um, yeah. Yet another question that we can ask or makes email against
[44:25] Mike: or makes it like, tenable at all like I strongly suspect. Like there's a fair fairly often on the sex of Reddit like women will
[44:31] Mike: complained about guys who won't go down on them. And I always suspect that some percentage of the time it's this.
[45:06] Mike: It's like, yeah, like I I can't, of course, make a comment. I don't like to comment on there because I get it's by motile. Sometimes I get lots of up votes. Sometimes I get just destroyed with down votes on. I don't wanna get banned or something, but I wonder sometimes it's like look like maybe it's just something totally pragmatic like this. Like it's just not that fun, because it's like he's he's it's Yeah, it's like you're you're looking to back and like if you just fix. If you just work more careful, you don't have to shave or wax you. If you just took it down to, like, two millimeters of length, that's just like, yeah, and then, Oh, now this is easy and more fun. I just don't know.
[45:19] Keith: Yeah, I don't know either. I'm comfortable that what you just said would be considered extremely strongly anti feminist. But I wonder if from like, uh, you know, practice
[45:21] Keith: pragmatic perspective. Is it, though?
[45:37] Mike: I mean, it's like cause it's like I mean, on some level, I feel like it's not that different than saying, like, Look, I'm much more interested in having sex with women where when we use birth control or something, it's just a practical thing. It's like, Hey, it makes it. We're practically straight forward. It's not. Yeah, it's just like, Look, I'm just trying to make the experience better. That's it. I'm not trying. No,
[45:42] Keith: I know, but there's there's There's just a lot wrapped up in like
[45:53] Keith: imposing hair removal things on women. Like, if you were the you know the comments on these threads, they, you know, quickly dive into bickering about that. That's
[45:59] Mike: true, but I tend to like my general philosophy about these things. Is that people arm or
[46:08] Mike: practical than sort of, um, kind of religious zealots about things? Like a lot of times? I think a lot of these things have practical things that their core not
[46:16] Mike: just so I want to control your It's my general philosophy, but look, I could be wrong. I just That's just how I tend to look at the world,
[46:22] Keith: so Okay, let's move on. This is, uh Let's see here. Um,
[46:27] Keith: my my boyfriend titty fucked the girl in our threesome. Uh,
[46:35] Mike: this is the standard. The this is gonna be I haven't read this. Yeah, but I'm sure this is the standard. I predict. I predict that this is the standard
[46:46] Mike: mff. The woman was totally cool with it. The dude, like ejaculated in the second girl. And now the girlfriend is just freaking out, right? So destroyed the relationship.
[46:54] Keith: We've We've litigated threesome several times on this podcast, but I like this one just because it's so
[47:10] Keith: Yeah, I could just feel why she's upset and it makes sense, but Okay, we had our first threesome after discussing it many times. both this fantasy. And practically last weekend, we met a girl at a bar who is attractive to both of us and down for the type of threesome we wanted.
[47:19] Keith: Is this like a thing that attracted people could do? They could just go up to a girl at a bar and be like, Hey, are you down to have sex with us? So Yeah,
[47:20] Keith: well, I mean, you
[47:24] Mike: know, the only thing only comment I could make on this is the like
[47:39] Mike: when I've looked OK, one of encounter. I haven't looked for one. I've encountered practical advice for this. What? The most practical advice I've seen is hey, just just hire a prostitute. Yeah, that seems so. I don't know. That could be code. This could just be code for they hired a prostitute.
[47:53] Keith: Yeah, that's that's a good point. There is a practicality aspect that that comes up that I saw in one of the comments that I wanna bring up, but okay. She says my only role was no Anil. No sleeping over things like that. I didn't say he couldn't titty fuck her,
[47:57] Keith: so I can't fault him for that. But now I feel insecure I feel like the anal
[48:00] Mike: thing is interesting. I wonder what? Maybe she doesn't wanna
[48:04] Mike: across Stream. She doesn't want his her book shit up in her. But anyway,
[48:18] Keith: maybe it was a cleanliness thing. Maybe she's never had anal. And so I just feel like, yeah, that she said, I feel like she forgot to say you can't titty fuck her like he was like, Where s so
[48:32] Mike: That's a weird thing for a woman because I would say this like their for their few things and sexuality where it's like 100% of people agree on something. But I have to say in my reading for years and years of the sex subreddit because I have nothing else to do with my time.
[48:42] Mike: I 100% 100.0% of the women I've read about titty fucking say it's not interesting to them that they just don't get nothing out of it.
[48:47] Mike: Yeah, I mean, just just like this is like, it's basically just having a guy.
[48:55] Mike: Yeah, it would be like having somebody fucked like the crease of your elbow. Like they're just totally uninterested. But anyway, okay, so she probably didn't think of it because not interesting to her at all.
[49:06] Keith: What is it about giving? I don't wanna I don't wanna talk blowjobs this have so we do that. Nine out of 10 episodes. All right, she's got. But anyway, just I wanna I wanna bookmark this.
[49:11] Keith: What is it about giving a blowjob? That's so that that's like
[49:21] Keith: like when somebody is titty fucking you. You're just like, giving the man pleasure. And when you're blowing them, your e
[49:26] Mike: think this is a way we could just take a little detour. Alright, go ahead. It doesn't have to be like you
[49:31] Keith: understand what I'm saying. I don't understand. Let me qualify what I'm saying. I don't understand how
[49:37] Keith: people could say like, Oh, I love giving blowjobs, but getting titty fuck does nothing for me,
[49:40] Mike: okay? This is really straightforward. It's because
[49:45] Mike: a blow is penetrative. So it's going into your body. It's like it's sort of,
[49:51] Mike: you know, there's a and and and And the other thing, if the other thing that I think is really important with it is that
[50:00] Mike: like there's this really direct connection, like basically p i V, I mean anal, I guess to so that the three main penetrative sex acts
[50:01] Mike: when the guy
[50:18] Keith: there's three main that the only three. Well, e you have one of those throat holes from E lost colostomy bag Hold. Okay. Anyway, Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. E.
[50:23] Mike: I have to say that I'm taking a lot of diversity trainings lately, and I just know still that you always have to be
[50:26] Keith: opened. Okay, The three main holes. Then go ahead. Yeah,
[50:32] Mike: the three. Maybe 1/4 that I'm not aware of. Like maybe some sort of surgery anyway. Doesn't matter.
[50:34] Mike: Ah,
[50:43] Mike: in each of those cases, in particularly actually in aural there's this very direct connection of the man's pleasure to the woman. She can feel him. Nutting. Right there's like this.
[50:44] Mike: Yeah,
[50:45] Mike: the seaman shoots in her mouth.
[50:48] Keith: I mean, it shoots very mouth adjacent when
[50:49] Keith: she's good.
[50:55] Mike: Yeah, but it's not. It's not like it now because, like, they can't it look
[50:59] Mike: okay. It's the difference between the underside of the chin
[51:17] Mike: like, let's say that let's say that somebody was going to see is hard. You're not gay. And I was like, Let's say that let's say it was a butt cheeks. It was like, Hey, baby, I just want to rub my dick between your butt cheeks and then not all over your back. Can't you see why that wouldn't be compelling to her?
[51:29] Mike: And Oh, and by the way, I'm not going to touch any of your genitals or your butthole or anything like that. At any time I'm just gonna rub between them. But I'm gonna keep, like, I'm gonna put a little spacer in there, so I never touch anything that's sensitive on your body.
[51:43] Mike: Now, maybe if you could, like, rotate her nipples around so that, like your Penis is rubbing against him like then that. But I've never I've never actually think I just innovative that I should come up with a name for innovation, but the Yeah, I came up with the name, but I don't think that's I don't think that's a common thing.
[51:55] Mike: Yes, so this is just a thing where it's like it's literally if you said okay, I have to come up with a sex act that delivers zero pleasure to the other person. This would be it. I think that's the problem.
[52:06] Mike: And a blow does deliver from pleasure because it's like you're getting penetrated its submissive feeling and this connection, right? Your mouth is feeling you're tasting and so forth. The other guy like that makes sense to me.
[52:08] Mike: All right,
[52:12] Mike: but go on. Okay, But that's not that's not the core of this, unless I mean is you have more. You want to litigate that
[52:15] Keith: much? I don't know if I'm, like, fully convinced, but I think, yeah, let's move on. I can
[52:30] Mike: tell you like if there is a woman who, if there's a woman, listen to this or if you can find it on Reddit, where there's a woman who's like, I find this act totally compelling show it to me cause I've never like it's one of the few times where it seems to me that it's like a unanimous verdict.
[52:42] Keith: Yeah, I'd be interesting. I'd be interested in understanding why they would prefer blowjobs too big Titty fucked. I just told, you know, I know. I mean, and like that all kind of makes sense.
[52:47] Mike: E. I mean, like, let's say you're giving a woman Orel sex
[52:52] Mike: it doesn't like and you can feel the contractions of the vagina when she or orgasm.
[52:58] Mike: Maybe on your fingers. Maybe kind of in your mouth. Whatever like that doesn't like that doesn't turn you on.
[53:14] Keith: It might be I wonder if, like, agency matters a little bit. So, like if a girl is like, you know, riding my thigh or like grinding against my thigh and like, brings herself to orgasm, I think I would find that I think I would find that less compelling than going down on bringing her. That's right. Okay, so now the reason The only
[53:16] Mike: reason that's compelling
[53:23] Mike: it is somewhat compelling because you have a naked woman gyrating on your body. So it's compelling me. That's a nice It's not
[53:26] Keith: that I like, hate it. It's that it's less compelling.
[53:28] Mike: Yeah, but the issue with the tit fuck is it's
[53:38] Mike: a naked man. And so it's like, Well, I mean, how is this different than the same thing? The titty fuck is the dick pic of sex.
[53:42] Mike: Like these women don't want it. No woman wants it, okay?
[53:47] Mike: It also probably put their body on flattering light or something is probably some of that stuff, too, that I'm not even thinking of.
[53:50] Keith: So maybe yet?
[53:54] Keith: Yeah, maybe. Okay. All right. Anyway, so They're the first
[54:12] Keith: 20% of this of this thread that I'm gonna I'm gonna keep reading. Uh, she's got really big breasts, and I've always had small boobs. He fucked both of us. We all We all gave each we all gave each other head, and then he began titty fucking her, which really surprised me, But both he and the girl seemed really into it.
[54:14] Keith: Set that aside, you
[54:17] Mike: make me wonder if the other girl like
[54:20] Mike: that would that feels that feels a little catty to me.
[54:23] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
[54:25] Mike: Like, I bet she can't give you this,
[54:51] Keith: right? I honestly just watched. After about five minutes, he came. He usually only comes once. So me and the girl had sex after, and then he was ready again and did the same thing. Fucked me for a few minutes, eight her out for a few minutes, and then titty fucked her until he came. And that was the whole night. He was obviously super turned on by it. And I'm not upset that he enjoyed another girl. I'm just thinking about how I can't do that. My tits are too small to wrap around his cock Biopharm Arjun
[54:59] Keith: Should I tell him he wants to see her again? And I do, too, but I'm also feeling less than and then it just that's all she said. She probably should tell him
[55:04] Mike: like he doesn't care that much, but he would like to play with them. But this particular act, he doesn't care that much.
[55:11] Keith: Yeah, I can't imagine I mean, titty fucking. It's not that I know the guy. I don't like that she's it does. It did actually
[55:13] Mike: make me think. By the way,
[55:16] Mike: the assumption when you talk about this act is that
[55:39] Mike: that it's in the missionary position, not reverse like nobody. I'm right When I said that nobody effectively has ever titty fucked a woman. It's like it's like that episode of South Park where, uh, there's that what she's like, Butters, the character butters in South Park like can he? Turns out, you learn that when he poops on the toilet, he sits backward on. He used a little he's like, Oh, it's so great! There's a shelf where I can put stuff
[55:54] Keith: like what? E risk my reading material on the shelf? Yeah, yeah, No, I don't think I don't think people go the other way Where the where the man's asshole is like grinding them out of the woman. Yeah,
[55:58] Mike: yeah, but I mean, okay, fine. But what? I mean, on some level,
[56:09] Mike: if you were going for, like, a dominant submission thing, that would be zero humiliating. Give me the more compelling pose, but let's so let's just assume he's not doing that.
[56:11] Mike: I don't even know what the name for that would be, but all right,
[56:20] Keith: I think it's I think it's you may have invented a new a new act. Um, I want to check Urban Dictionary later. Uh,
[56:27] Keith: I mean, look, I get why she's upset, but, like, this is just general. This is just the same constellation of issues that people always having threesomes like
[56:29] Keith: the guy
[56:44] Keith: is enjoying the newness of the new person. And in this particular case, it's like, you know, fucking her tits. And you know, her breasts are bigger than than the primary partners. And so she's upset. But it's always something. It's always fucking something, and
[56:51] Keith: I just don't understand why people are always so surprised after threesomes that, like their feelings, are hurt.
[56:55] Mike: Yeah, I mean it's and it's specifically like the
[57:00] Mike: There's a Yeah, there's a few different failure modes here, but it's always like the
[57:02] Mike: um,
[57:19] Mike: yeah, I mean, it's it, right? It's it's e guess. Their feelings are hurt is a good way to say it, but it feels like people get ghosted. There's all these things that happen that and it's just like, Oh man, like like, 00 the other one just I want to just say it because I think I find this one so funny. The really standard one. The really standard one is to
[57:39] Mike: is let me think about this. No, the the other really standard One is an MMF threesome, and the guy makes the mistake of bringing in another guy who's got a gigantic cock right way. I think we've had this one a few times or what he wants. It's like it's like, yeah, and she she has, like, nine orgasms, and she's
[57:44] Keith: really not. She really enjoyed the experience like she's
[58:20] Mike: like she's like, you know what? What's the matter? Like, you know, it was great, but I love you guys like No, no, no. You know, on some level, this is the same. Is that right? I mean, basically, she made the mistake of letting him pick a girl that has vastly different physical proportions from her. And so yeah, this is what this is. This is that Is that basically what's really going on here is she's, like, crap, this guy that he has a tit finish, and I'll have that. So she's Yeah, she blew. She screwed herself. Like he's been sort of hiding that from her or not being honest about it. And now it's impossible. So this is why people should avoid these things, Like I mean it, Z yeah, maybe it was identical twins.
[58:20] Mike: I
[58:22] Keith: mean, even then
[58:25] Keith: even that Zatz tricky.
[58:26] Keith: Um okay,
[58:29] Mike: personality. Usually there's one that's cuter than the other.
[58:31] Keith: Yes.
[59:10] Keith: Stop. So there, um, there There were two comments here that I thought were interesting. Um, the first one waas there should be a warning label on threesomes. They will attack your insecurities and no amount of rules will solve this. That's basically what you just said. But the second thing was kind of. By definition, the new partner will get more attention and specifically the characteristic that makes them different from their existing partner. I don't know if that's like exactly true, but it's Yeah. I mean, it's definitely true most of the time, probably like, yeah, like they're just gonna be like, Oh, yeah, this is new. And then, yeah, the primary person is like, What the fuck? Like I can't do that or I can't do that as well. And, you know, feelings are hurt.
[59:15] Mike: E don't know it because I'm a man or because it's just like
[59:16] Mike: so,
[59:24] Mike: uh, pervasive in our culture. But the one with the guy with the big dick Very. It's it's hits home. I totally get that like it's just like,
[59:30] Mike: yeah, that would be tough if it was like, You're like, Whoa, she's behaving totally differently than she ever does with me.
[59:31] Mike: Are
[59:41] Keith: there other you know, coming back from that are there are other things, like if the guy was really strong and he could like, you know, you see this in porn a lot and
[59:50] Keith: you know he's like, got her up against a wall or whatever. He's like carrying her like, Is there something out? Like, what's like the second worst thing that could happen to a man and I don't have that situation Then in that situation,
[60:30] Mike: well, the second verse or maybe the worst would be on it turning into mmf when you expected m f m but setting that aside, uh, guys like, Hey, I don't I don't wanna have sex with you. Uh, but the no, The big thing here and this is this is why it's a really good analogy between breasts and Penis is that there's just nothing you could dio. It's like just a character being really strong. Well, the guy could work out, right? I mean, if the guys really good in the world, he could say, Oh, I'm gonna learn to do that like there's all these things. I mean, the only other thing I could think of is just the newness of the guy. And then that's sort of like, Oh, I mean, maybe, like race. Like if you find out that she's really attracted to Asian men or something. Yeah, Like Mrs To do now?
[60:39] Keith: Yeah, I'm not sure how that I'm not sure how that would manifest in such a well, I mean, yeah. I mean, I guess if she has, like, nine orgasms and she's never come with you.
[60:47] Mike: Well, their various e could definitely imagine certain combinations where it would become kind. You would have a suspicion that that's why
[60:52] Mike: you know, or let's say it was like a famous person. Like something you can't replica rich person A
[61:14] Mike: You know, I don't know much younger person. There you go like like you hear about, you know, like you're you're in your forties and like she wants a guy who's 22 it's like, Oh, I can't do that And you know so But I think the key here is that it's a characteristic that's unchangeable that can't You can't replicate it, just that it yeah, there's another one, that is, It rhymes with this where,
[61:19] Mike: and this is another one that honestly, is a mistake, like guys will go out and get these cocks leaves
[61:41] Mike: right? And so it's this thing you put over your dick and it makes it appear and seem bigger right on you. It says. If you're having sex with it's like a it's like a strap on, right goes over your cock, okay? And they'll do that and then something like, you'll see these commenters, and it's like some percentage of the time they'll do that. And the girl, it just goes crazy on it. And it's like now it's like, Why did you do that to yourself? Like now what
[61:55] Mike: this is like Now you've opened Pandora's box, It's over, you're screwed and there's just no, there's no coming back from it. And then I think I've seen it were with a woman posts and she's like, I don't want to say like it felt good, right? It felt so much like, Why don't you just where I want to wear it every time now And it's like
[61:57] Keith: I can't stop thinking about it, You know?
[62:06] Mike: It's like, How would you feel if, like, there was some device he stuck in your vagina that made it tighter? And he's like, Look, baby, can you Can you Can you just jam this flashlight in there? Can you
[62:08] Keith: just always wear this now?
[62:20] Mike: Yeah, just just a flesh light. Don't worry. You know, it's just a Tanga. Whatever. Those things are called tanker, uh, massage, whatever. They have these things, that massage or whatever. Yeah, that's just terrible. You don't wanna You wanna be stuck in that
[62:21] Mike: limbo.
[62:37] Keith: Yeah, OK, we should wrap this up, but let me read the second comment I thought was interesting. This person said I've had several threesomes with my husband and other women. Personally, I'm not okay with him coming with anyone else. He could fuck them all day, but he will come with me singing. That might be a good role, actually.
[62:38] Keith: Um,
[62:42] Mike: yeah, I just still I mean, yes. Well, there's two issues. One is
[62:50] Mike: okay. Being a man and also what I find humorous, I'm much more sensitized to the It's much easier for me to imagine
[62:56] Mike: the situation because women are generally harder to bring the orgasm. So I just have this imagination of
[63:06] Mike: the couple where the guy is good at it. You get served to orgasm, stuff like that. But then she had sex with some other guy, and she's just, like, coming constantly. So, like, for some reason, this woman doing it that, like, is more
[63:09] Mike: to me, like, has more. And then it's sort of like
[63:14] Mike: So I guess you could say she's not allowed to, but that zoom in
[63:21] Keith: order. Yeah, she could fake it. Fake not. Are you either One
[63:24] Mike: situation where a woman would fake and reverse a reverse fake orgasm.
[63:28] Keith: She's like trying to keep a straight face of, like, not get flush.
[63:35] Mike: But sure, like I've seen that I've seen that as a rule and like, it makes sense to me that be a rule for women to impose on men. But I
[63:43] Mike: Yeah, I think it's a little unusual. I think it's much more common. E guess both could happen. Like, look, these situations air just fraud. So