YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary Podcast

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Episode 174: Porn Illegal In Africa, Condom Rejection, Fappening Novelties, Women Touching Women Down There

Team YMMV | 7-24-2024 | 1:03:05

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One surprising challenge for the man traveling through Africa is that porn is illegal in essentially every country there. This, combined with spotty Internet access, can genuinely inhibit a man from being able to orgasm during his trip. Not to mention what it might do to prostate-cancer rates.

Condom use, or lack thereof in early sexual encounters, is discussed. Men and women's different and competing strategies come into play here, since women can decrease the odds of being ghosted by suggesting some hot sex in the future. But, if they actually do the deed too well, maybe the guy gets what he "wants" and moves on.

And, how much do women really know about their own genitals, given how hidden they are? Why do they appear so surprised when interacting for the first time with another woman's lady parts?

Here is the video of women touching another woman's vagina for the first time:

https://ymmv.me/174/touching

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/174/condom

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00:01] Keith: Hello, and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. We are going to talk about nude pictures, insensitive comments, and the female experience, condoms, and more today. I'm Keith, my co-host is Mike. How goes it, Mike?
[00:00:19] Mike: It's going well. I hear you're in the southern part of Africa now.
[00:00:24] Keith: Yeah, I left Lesotho today, which is a landlocked country inside of South Africa and crossed back into South Africa today. And I'm coming at you from a airport hotel, which was $22 a night. And I'm flying to Cape Town tomorrow, which should be nice. I think i was thinking today, is Cape Town the ah most uh cosmopolitan city in all of Africa it must be.
[00:00:57] Mike: That's a good question. I mean, yeah, it probably depends on how you define Africa exactly. But yeah, I think that's probably right.
[00:01:03] Keith: I mean i Cairo or Casablanca maybe I mean but I've been to both those cities and I expect Cape Town will be um
[00:01:14] Keith: I don't know what adjective to use here. I used cosmopolitan, but more Western, more like global North cities. I don't i don't know what the right expression is. But anyway, and it'll be nice because I've been traveling around places with just extreme abject poverty for the last few weeks.
[00:01:27] Mike: Yeah.
[00:01:36] Keith: and It's interesting and it's eye-opening and Lesotho in particular is like a very beautiful place, but it's a bit overwhelming. And so I'm just looking forward for a bit of a break from that.
[00:01:48] Mike: Yeah, it must rough it must be rough for you to see what what the colonizers did to all these people.
[00:01:55] Keith: We're going to go back to this. huh um yeah i mean the The mostly recent history of race relations in these countries is just totally omnipresent. and um i have some a big yeah I don't know what what you're trying to bait here.
[00:02:12] Mike: Do they have like ah do they have like statues of Confederate soldiers and stuff? do they they have you like the
[00:02:19] Mike: I'm just kidding.
[00:02:23] Keith: but like ah The big topic of debate is Cecil Rhodes and whether he should be lauded or completely dismissed.
[00:02:26] Mike: Oh, just yeah.
[00:02:33] Mike: Oh, there you go.
[00:02:35] Keith: and
[00:02:35] Mike: Okay.
[00:02:37] Keith: yeah He's like the, I don't know, the Robert E. Lee of America or something.
[00:02:42] Mike: Okay. That makes sense.
[00:02:45] Keith: Yeah, arguably, he brought, yeah, I hesitate to say this, arguably, he brought more positive things here than can be, than the case can be made for Robert E. Lee. So it's a little bit more complicated than the Robert E. Lee case, but ah the ah prevailing thinking is that Cecil Rhodes needs to go.
[00:03:06] Mike: That's interesting. Yeah, there was a, yeah, okay. That's fine.
[00:03:10] Keith: Yeah, all right, let's move on. um So Lesotho, I guess I should issue a trigger warning here. ah Has the second highest rape rate in the world. Or no, wait, no, sorry, the first highest. And I don't know how you measure that. There's probably some error bars. But in any case, rape is extremely common. and
[00:03:38] Mike: Rape of women?
[00:03:38] Keith: And I don't know how they, again, I don't know how they count it.
[00:03:39] Mike: ah do they Do they rape men also?
[00:03:43] Keith: but the The culture there around, yeah, like men's place in the world and women's place in the world is ah sort of prehistoric from an American's perspective. um And I met somebody yesterday who is from Germany, but she works for UNICEF and lives in Cape Town, actually, ah but she was in Lesotho also. and I sort of casually mentioned ah that I'd been reading about Lesotho, and one of the things I thought was interesting was that, yeah, it has the second highest HIV rate in the world at 24% and the highest rape rate in the world. And to me, it's sort of abstractly interesting. But ah at breakfast this morning, the lodge we were staying at had free breakfast, so everyone sort of congregates at the same place.
[00:04:38] Keith: She mentioned that she really had trouble sleeping last night because she spent the whole night precipitating about like someone coming in the window to get her.
[00:04:46] Mike: Huh.
[00:04:46] Keith: and i Didn't, I apologize profusely. I was like, oh, I'm so sorry for for putting that in your head. I, you know, wasn't considering. Yeah. Like for me, it's just and an interesting, uh, you know, footnote, but for her, it's like a much more affecting thing to hear. And, uh, I thought it was, yeah, like I probably shouldn't have said that, or at least shouldn't have said it so flippantly or something.
[00:05:17] Mike: Well, you could have told her something like, look, if you're afraid tomorrow you can come into my room.
[00:05:23] Keith: Yeah, there was this other couple at breakfast, actually. And um they were talking about yeah how comfortably they slept. And ah yeah, I was going to say something like, well, that's probably because you're here with your husband. But yeah, I didn't want to pour any more gasoline on the fire. I was already digging my foot out of my mouth. So I kept that to myself.
[00:05:47] Mike: right
[00:05:48] Keith: um
[00:05:49] Mike: Yeah, I mean, in a country, um it's, i I assume, I assume it's just, yeah, I mean, look, it's the psychological fear of being assaulted like that. But ah you also have a non a substantial probability of getting HIV, given what you said about the, ah the rate there.
[00:06:08] Keith: Yeah.
[00:06:09] Mike: So
[00:06:10] Keith: Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just probably a dangerous place to be a woman. um Anyway, this is.
[00:06:17] Mike: It's a little strange. I mean, I don't totally understand why rape would be more common. and It's a little confusing because there's, I have presumably an equal number of men and women in the country. And so it's not totally obvious to me what would motivate, what would what would motivate, there must be some cultural influence or something.
[00:06:36] Keith: Yeah, I'm gonna speak extemporaneously.
[00:06:37] Mike: Is po is born illegal there?
[00:06:40] Keith: I don't know.
[00:06:42] Mike: Okay.
[00:06:41] Keith: I think it's that Lesotho has a very, very, very homogenous culture. And the culture is has less influence of liberalism than some of the other countries in Southern Africa because it's so homogenous.
[00:06:57] Mike: you
[00:07:01] Keith: It has much less influence from colonial powers than the other countries around it. And so while there isn't much liberalism even in the countries around it in Lesotho, it's even less. I mean, it's 99.7% black and ah ah For example, they still run their government with like chiefs, and there's no trial by jury. It's a trial by like a single judge. And I think ah things like ah women deserving equal rights are...
[00:07:29] Mike: you
[00:07:36] Keith: I think that... I think the the forefront of liberalism is something that is really only fought in first world countries that have the resources to consider such things. And in a place like Lesotho, where people can't find food to eat, it sort of reverts to more traditional gender roles. and I don't know why in Lesotho it's in particular ah higher, but I do know that men take many wives. Like the first king had something like 140 wives. The first king was in the like mid 1800s. This wasn't like thousands of years ago.
[00:08:11] Mike: Huh.
[00:08:11] Keith: And so, yeah, just women are probably just not considered as equals there. And that has all kinds of cascading effects, um perhaps increased rape rate within that perhaps explains the increased rape rate break. But again, I'm just speaking extemporaneously here.
[00:08:29] Mike: So I, so I, I actually never considered this before, but I did a search and found a Wikipedia page called pornography laws by region.
[00:08:28] Keith: I'm i'm not really sure.
[00:08:36] Mike: And there's a map of the world and essentially,
[00:08:37] Keith: Yeah.
[00:08:39] Mike: This had not even occurred to me, but essentially in all of Africa, except for South Africa, ah maybe Angola, pornography is illegal. So when you watch porn to beat off, you are committing a crime in most of these countries.
[00:08:53] Keith: Huh.
[00:08:53] Mike: Did you watch porn and beat off in Lesotho?
[00:08:54] Keith: You can't.
[00:08:58] Keith: Uh, yes.
[00:09:00] Mike: No comment. Did you bring, actually, let me ask you this. Did you bring pornography into that country on your computer?
[00:09:06] Keith: For sure.
[00:09:08] Mike: that yeah you committed a crime, I believe, because it is actually illegal.
[00:09:10] Keith: Yeah, I'm sure that's a crime.
[00:09:11] Mike: The possession of pornography in ah that country is illegal and actually in most of Africa is illegal. So be careful.
[00:09:20] Keith: I don't know. I mean, the last place I was at in Lesotho, the power was off for 12 hours a day and there's basically no internet. So yeah, if I don't even know how you would get porn. You'd have to like buy a penthouse or something.
[00:09:39] Mike: Well, that makes it even crazier that you brought it in there because you know that's almost like bringing drugs into a place for you.
[00:09:43] Keith: Yeah, precious commodity.
[00:09:45] Mike: Yes.
[00:09:45] Keith: Yeah, oh homosexuality, of course, is illegal there. And you know it it's all the hallmarks of a pre-liberal society.
[00:09:51] Mike: Interesting.
[00:09:54] Mike: Interesting. ah But this is, yeah, I mean, it's ah that did not even occur to me. that like I mean, yeah, like ah in in Djibouti, you can be imprisoned for a year if you have a porn. All pornography, any pornography,
[00:10:06] Keith: i wonder if that I wonder if that's actually decriminalized.
[00:10:12] Mike: Probably.
[00:10:12] Keith: like Maybe it's technically illegal, but do they actually enforce?
[00:10:16] Mike: i'm sure I'm sure it's not particularly enforced, but I just had no idea. it ah your The commentary about sexual assault made me think, oh, well, what's the deal with porn? And I guess, yeah, I never considered it being illegal. Of course, the United States, it's it's completely legal. So that's nice. Although, you know, there are states where you can no longer act with porn.
[00:10:35] Keith: Um, there's something going on in Texas. There's some, yeah, there's something going on in Texas because the internet provider I do have ah appears to be, is geolocated in Texas.
[00:10:39] Mike: Yes.
[00:10:48] Keith: And when I try to access porn hub, it it's, they need some sort of photo ID or something to be able to watch porn in Texas. Is that what the deal is? Do you know?
[00:11:01] Mike: Yeah, they're they're trying to make it so you have to be of age to access porn. And so then you have to send in your photo ID. And I bet a lot of people have, but they've gotten a lot of photo IDs.
[00:11:10] Keith: And there's some there's some third-party verifying service that is taking care of that.
[00:11:14] Mike: I don't know that detail.
[00:11:16] Keith: huh
[00:11:17] Mike: I don't know. It's pretty aggressive.
[00:11:20] Keith: don't yeah yeah I don't even have accounts on Pornhub or any of the porn sites I use. I definitely don't want my driver's license associated with my porn viewing habits yeah or or you know my social security number or whatever.
[00:11:33] Mike: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:38] Mike: I of course would not mind.
[00:11:39] Keith: So,
[00:11:40] Mike: It doesn't matter to me. my My porn viewing habits are pretty great.
[00:11:42] Keith: um um, you think that, uh, yeah, it's a, it's a shiny beacon of what, what a real, a real manly man would do.
[00:11:44] Mike: Like I think I would defend them.
[00:11:52] Mike: Yes.
[00:11:54] Keith: Okay. All right.
[00:11:56] Mike: Okay.
[00:11:56] Keith: Let's move on to something slightly more fun, which is, so, um,
[00:12:03] Keith: Before I left for this trip, I was sort of seeing somebody in San Francisco. And ah a while back, she sent me two nudes that she told me that she took for an ex.
[00:12:23] Mike: Okay.
[00:12:23] Keith: And they are spectacular nudes. They're really good.
[00:12:31] Mike: Okay.
[00:12:31] Keith: And I like them, especially in this like porn desert of ah Southern Africa that I'm in. So I'm happy to have them. But I think a big part of receiving a nude is ah you like to imagine that they did it for you because they were aroused or something. or that yeah there's there's some the The clinical nature of this, I don't love.
[00:13:01] Mike: I understand. I mean, you could imagine this being there being some sort of cuckolding fantasy here where actually it turns you on more that she she took the picture for somebody else. Their pictures are not videos, right?
[00:13:09] Keith: um Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:13] Mike: Yeah. But you're saying that you you actually want the intention to be directed toward you.
[00:13:19] Keith: I don't love receiving nudes in general for reasons I've explained before, but
[00:13:25] Mike: Yeah.
[00:13:27] Keith: Um, yeah, I don't like the aspect of needing to coddle the person who sent it to me. So in in this sense, I don't have to do that at all.
[00:13:33] Mike: Right.
[00:13:35] Keith: Like she doesn't care. Like she sent them because I think she had them. And, uh, yeah, actually I'm having problems building a theory of mind for why she sent them to me. Actually. Do you have a theory?
[00:13:53] Mike: No, I mean, yeah my basic theory would be that she's trying to like, continue the relationship, right? But I think
[00:14:00] Keith: I guess, but it's sort of sort of lazy.
[00:14:05] Mike: Oh, just the fact that she didn't oh Oh, oh, I can I can I have a theory as to why she did you're wondering why she didn't take some specifically for you.
[00:14:05] Keith: And it's overtly lazy.
[00:14:13] Keith: I mean, I have some theories on this too, but you go first.
[00:14:16] Mike: Yeah, my theory is that women are extremely ah cognizant and kind of paranoid about their cognizant of and paranoid about their physical appearance. And so women are aware of things that you you and I might just like vaguely notice. And so there's something about her appearance that has changed for the worse.
[00:14:34] Keith: Yeah.
[00:14:36] Mike: And these are like these pictures are like when she felt like she was a 10 out of 10.
[00:14:40] Keith: yeah ah Yeah, I guess my theory was related. I don't think her appearance has degraded in any way. But to your point, it might be something imperceptible to me.
[00:14:51] Mike: Yeah, but you don't know.
[00:14:54] Mike: Right.
[00:14:54] Keith: ah But yeah, I was thinking it was something like, to get the nudes that she that she got, she probably you know but had to set up the shot and get the lighting and like you know maybe she had to get a bit drunk and like build up the confidence to do it and you know maybe it took several takes before she got ones that she liked and she just doesn't want to go through the hassle because yeah for her yeah it's just not important to her um yeah there's the
[00:15:24] Mike: I think it's unlikely to be that. I think it's unlikely to be that because I think that women, yeah, I mean, like she would like to have more pictures of herself looking really good. I think there's something in the pictures that's, I think there's something about the way she looks now that you're not able to detect that she's probably gained a little weight. That would be my, like my first past guess would be something like that. And it could be like, it could be like two pounds, right? I mean, you know, like you and I both have this experience that as like a man who exercises and stuff, like I'll go up and down five pounds. But women seem to go up and down like one pound and make a big deal out of it.
[00:15:52] Keith: Yeah.
[00:15:55] Mike: And you're just like, what, how do you even notice that?
[00:15:55] Keith: Yeah. Right.
[00:15:58] Mike: So.
[00:16:00] Keith: Yeah. I think we're closer to agreeing here than you think. ah My theory is it's a hassle for her to get a picture that she likes.
[00:16:12] Mike: Yeah. Okay.
[00:16:12] Keith: And your theory is that like she can't get a picture that she likes or something.
[00:16:18] Mike: Yeah. Like there's something she's insecure about now. Something's changed.
[00:16:21] Keith: Yeah. She doesn't come off as confused about my attraction to her, but maybe maybe so maybe she'll listen and she'll and she'll let me know.
[00:16:30] Mike: What is the what is the in these in these pictures she sent you? Is her vulva visible?
[00:16:40] Keith: I don't want to reveal that detail in case she does listen, and now it's because it could be important to her.
[00:16:47] Mike: Why?
[00:16:50] Mike: Oh, I just wanted to know how how a woman
[00:16:51] Keith: There's some universe where like where this person becomes like a more important part of my life and like eventually, yeah.
[00:16:58] Mike: yeah Okay. Okay.
[00:16:58] Keith: um like there's no there's no benefit There's no benefit to me revealing that.
[00:16:59] Mike: my My point wasn't to like invest.
[00:17:03] Mike: Right. i I didn't want to like stick of a speculum interval, but it was more like, I was curious how in these pictures she was really proud of how she framed it. In other words, like she's probably not spread Eagle or like with her legs spread. It's probably very subtle.
[00:17:14] Keith: Yeah.
[00:17:16] Mike: That was where I was going with that actually.
[00:17:16] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that almost goes with that saying that you never get the the resolution or the yeah but clinicalness that I'm looking for.
[00:17:21] Mike: Okay. There we go.
[00:17:31] Keith: i I really want to be able to zoom in there, but you know sometimes sometimes things have to be left to the imagination.
[00:17:34] Mike: Sure. Right.
[00:17:39] Keith: um Yeah. Anyway, okay. You had something you wanted to talk about, the fappening?
[00:17:45] Mike: Yeah, so I mean, there's this site, fa the fappening dot pro or something like that online, and it appears that there's something I thought you might understand that I i not sure I understand about this. So there was the big event that happened some years ago where there was a gigantic hack and a bunch of celebrity females, women's nude photos and videos were captured and appear to somehow circulate online. like Whoever like would normally sue people to get rid of these things has just given up. Maybe they're all hosted in some country where pornography is legal, but there's also no laws.
[00:18:19] Mike: um But it also seems like they haven't
[00:18:20] Keith: Yeah. The fappening was 2014.
[00:18:24] Mike: but Okay, it also seems like they have new content all the time. And this is what I wanted to understand. Is it your understanding that celebrities are constantly being hacked, no matter like the protections that Apple tries to put in various companies, that that there's just this constant trickle of of of these videos and pictures?
[00:18:37] Keith: No. No. No. I think that most of the content on those sites are fakes.
[00:18:47] Mike: Ah, this is what I wanted to get at. So you think that it's sort of AI generated deep fake nonsense or whatever. They're basically putting the celebrity's face on somebody else's body.
[00:18:56] Keith: For decades, it was people using Photoshop. I think now, AI, ah probably Photoshop for the best of the best, ah celeb celeb nude fakes is is still slightly better than what AI can do, but maybe not.
[00:19:12] Mike: Okay.
[00:19:13] Keith: I've noticed that there are several apps. Actually, I think the New York Times did a podcast episode of, they did an episode of The Daily on this, I think. that that was I heard it on a podcast. There are apps now that can ah yeah basically nudify any ah photo you upload of a woman.
[00:19:33] Mike: Right. Okay.
[00:19:33] Keith: And yeah, the the episode was about, yeah, like high school high school boys are of course doing this and you know sending it around and it's very traumatic for the girls. And yeah, like what should the punishment be for the boys? It's sort of a boys just being boys thing, but this is, a use case that like hasn't really been possible until now. And so what should be done?
[00:19:56] Mike: Right. Okay, so your understanding is there is not a constant stream of new fappening style content coming out.
[00:20:05] Keith: That's my guess. it It could be the case that there's an armada of you know Eastern European hackers that are ah trying to compromise celebrity cloud accounts. That's possible. um But yeah, that that that doesn't seem like Occam's Racer here. That doesn't seem like the most likely explanation.
[00:20:30] Mike: but Either that or or these people are just releasing, like they're all trying to be Kim Kardashian releasing their own content in the hopes that it will, and then they can claim they didn't do it.
[00:20:38] Keith: Oh,
[00:20:42] Keith: could be. Although I think there's a pretty direct path to monetizing your own nudes now if you have even a little bit of celebrity, which is to use OnlyFans.
[00:20:51] Mike: That's true.
[00:20:52] Keith: And so like there are some pretty D-list celebrities who have turned to OnlyFans and made, you know, six or seven figures doing that. So I think you could get the possible benefit of a viral explosion of popularity by using OnlyFans. And even if you don't, you'll get some money from it. And so, yeah, I don't think you would need to do some weird pretend hack like Kardashian did.
[00:21:21] Mike: Right. Okay. Yeah, that's that's a good point. The OnlyFans ecosystem ah kind of, yeah.
[00:21:30] Keith: It's a release valve.
[00:21:31] Mike: Right. i'm not Yeah, I'm not even aware of who all is on OnlyFans. Maybe it's, maybe yeah, basically every list celebrity female is on there, which makes sense. so
[00:21:41] Keith: Yeah, I used to really like celebrity fakes. and it That like really got me going. I used to read, like, Litirotica about celebrities. It was really pathetic in retrospect. um But I haven't...
[00:21:54] Mike: Like which celebrities?
[00:21:57] Keith: Who was I into back then? ah
[00:22:04] Keith: I can't, ah this sounds fake.
[00:22:06] Mike: Oprah?
[00:22:08] Keith: No, but, uh, I can't remember. Like I can't even remember one.
[00:22:15] Mike: Wow. All right.
[00:22:17] Keith: Yeah, this is bad content. I think I'll take a note here and maybe I'll remember for next episode. It's not going to be interesting. It's going to be like, you know, who are the girls on the OC?
[00:22:30] Mike: LC that's not that's not the OC that's the Hills sure Lauren Conrad she was very attractive wouldn't
[00:22:33] Keith: Yeah, no. Oh, yeah. You liked LC for a while, right? Wasn't that one of your? Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, she had, was that the one that did all the plastic surgery?
[00:22:43] Mike: like that there's a different one did that Heidi yeah that's right yes
[00:22:51] Keith: Okay. All right. Oh, yeah. Heidi mont Montag? Was that her name? Okay. I used to ah be really into celeb stuff like in the, like from 2005 to 2012. That was a big part of my life. But ah thankfully, i've I've distanced myself since then. Anyway, okay, next.
[00:23:16] Mike: OK, so I was watching a video last night of a woman. It was a woman who let other women inspect and touch her vagina. OK, so the basic premise is.
[00:23:27] Keith: Okay.
[00:23:30] Mike: Yeah, she basically takes her underwear off and these other women. It was a YouTube video, so like they censor it. And what I noticed was there was an extreme amount of significant amount of surprise. ah From the other women and what they saw and felt as they interacted with this woman's vagina. And this made me think that ah even with the prevalence of porn, that women in general just have no idea what a vulva and vagina look like and feel like.
[00:24:02] Mike: What do you think about that?
[00:24:02] Keith: i think that is I think that is probably the case. You're going to make an argument more so than men and but having familiarity with their own genitalia because of the the angle or something.
[00:24:15] Mike: Well, I mean, and men also are you know much more interested in their own genitals for various reasons.
[00:24:20] Keith: I, I, yes, I am. I personally, there've been a few times in my life where there's been like a ah mirror on the floor and I, you know, I've had the opportunity to stand over it and inspect myself and.
[00:24:31] Mike: Okay.
[00:24:39] Keith: In all of those cases, I either avoided it on purpose because like I just don't didn't want to see, or I looked, confirmed that that I really didn't want to see that, and then moved on. like I haven't done the exercise of of carefully inspecting down there. um like I find it sort of revolting.
[00:24:55] Mike: Okay. So you think that for a woman, the experience of seeing vaginas is basically like a man's experience of looking at anuses.
[00:25:06] Keith: I don't know. I don't mind seeing, but I'm been thinking this through, I don't mind seeing male genitalia. I don't mind seeing men's penises. I really don't like seeing men's assholes.
[00:25:22] Mike: Right.
[00:25:22] Keith: um
[00:25:23] Mike: And particularly your own asshole. Sounds like it's a pretty negative experience.
[00:25:28] Keith: Yeah, I think so, although it's only been tested briefly once or twice.
[00:25:33] Mike: OK.
[00:25:36] Mike: So it's not so there's like a potentially a lack of curiosity there for women born out of just knowing it's not going to be great.
[00:25:44] Keith: I don't know if it's, yeah, like, the thing is, I mean, Volvas are pretty weird.
[00:25:50] Mike: Mm hmm.
[00:25:50] Keith: um but Like, when I'm aroused, i I think they're great. But when I'm not aroused, like, you know, in the post nut clarity, they're not really, I mean, there are a lot of very attractive parts of the of the female anatomy, but Volvas are not necessarily one of them.
[00:26:08] Mike: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. um Yeah, i was just I was just intrigued by, you know, you think that, yeah, yeah I mean, I think it's owing to the angle and basically there's some sort of like just complete uninterest there that women have. ah it's surprising It's a little surprising.
[00:26:25] Keith: Yeah. I mean, men definitely have a position advantage in that like, yeah, like we can easily inspect our own cocks, which is like, as long as you're not too fat, you can look down and see it and interact with it and, you know, watch the various modes it has.
[00:26:40] Mike: Right.
[00:26:46] Keith: Um, and yeah, like, well, I can't see like the underside now. I can actually, I actually can sort of see the underside of my shaft.
[00:26:54] Mike: Sure. Definitely.
[00:26:55] Keith: I guess I can't see, i can and like if I like lift up my scrotum, I can see the underside of my scrotum too. So yeah, like the only thing I don't really get frequent looks at is my own asshole.
[00:27:07] Mike: Right, and it's a fair point that guys aren't running around with mirrors trying to look, trying trying to inspect that typically.
[00:27:13] Keith: Right.
[00:27:14] Mike: So there probably is an analogy there.
[00:27:18] Keith: I don't know why women, okay, how do women shave themselves? Like, can they see ah sort of like, i thought a lot of women I've been with like are like completely, like there's not a single follicle down there. Although sometimes they'll miss a spot.
[00:27:37] Mike: That's actually a fair point. That's a fair point. I mean, you could do some of it by feel.
[00:27:39] Keith: But yeah, the question I'm asking, yeah. Okay. Yeah. We're asking the same question is here, which is like, yeah. How did they, how do they see it to like make sure they've, they've gotten everything?
[00:27:50] Mike: That's actually a great point. that that That sort of makes you wonder about the veracity of this YouTube video I saw, because these women probably are and in their grooming rituals, seeing themselves. ah But maybe yeah, maybe they maybe they're able to do it by feel.
[00:28:01] Keith: Huh.
[00:28:05] Mike: But you'd think it would be much easier with a mirror, although doing things like that with a mirror can be hard because everything's reversed. So you can wind up some technique.
[00:28:13] Keith: Yeah, that's true. But and also yeah bringing a mirror into the shower is tricky because it gets fogged and and that kind of thing.
[00:28:23] Mike: Sure.
[00:28:24] Keith: Do you remember any of the specific surprises these women had?
[00:28:32] Mike: I mean, it was yeah they were Yeah, they were, they, they seemed surprised a little bit by the, the actual feel of the interior of the vagina. Like, oh, it's really, it's, it's, it's softer than I thought or something like that.
[00:28:48] Keith: wow
[00:28:48] Mike: And, uh, yeah. And like it's, uh, when they, when they were looking, you know, it's like, oh, this is, uh, there's, there's sort of more here than I expected or something like that.
[00:29:01] Mike: just Yeah. Things like that. Yeah.
[00:29:05] Keith: Were they actually digitally penetrating this other woman?
[00:29:10] Mike: Yeah. Yes, they were. Yes.
[00:29:13] Keith: Did they, I just have some, yeah.
[00:29:14] Mike: Well, purportedly, I mean.
[00:29:17] Keith: Oh yeah, I guess it was blurred, but you can still, I mean, I don't know how pixelated but the pixels were, but you can still kind of see what's going on.
[00:29:19] Mike: Yes.
[00:29:25] Mike: It was pretty pixelated might even have had a black box there. I mean, it's YouTube's although although, you know, if you go to the YouTube pussy subreddit, you can see that like YouTube actually does platform plenty of of ah shaving tutorials and waxing tutorials and the like.
[00:29:29] Keith: If, a yes.
[00:29:38] Mike: So.
[00:29:39] Keith: Right.
[00:29:43] Keith: if If you're a woman, let's say you're a woman and you want to let a row of 10 women finger blast you, not but but not not in a sexual way, like in ah in a clinical way.
[00:29:54] Mike: Uh-huh.
[00:29:59] Keith: How is that done? I mean, were they using lube or something?
[00:30:04] Mike: Probably. That part I didn't see. I wondered that actually when watching the video, like how are they, how are they avoiding this being a pretty uncomfortable experience for her?
[00:30:05] Keith: Okay.
[00:30:11] Keith: Uncomfortable. Yeah.
[00:30:13] Mike: Yes.
[00:30:13] Keith: Yeah, okay.
[00:30:14] Mike: I'm guessing there was lube involved.
[00:30:14] Keith: All right. I have lots of questions. Again, you should put one of these videos in the show notes and send it to me just because I'm mildly curious how this all went down.
[00:30:21] Mike: Okay.
[00:30:25] Keith: All right. I wanted to talk about, yeah, this ah this condoms thing. so
[00:30:35] Mike: Sure.
[00:30:35] Keith: this comes This comes up all the time. Nobody uses condoms during casual sex, apparently. And then, yeah, this woman goes on to talk about, she's... Oh, wait, actually, wait, okay, maybe I should read this. Okay, I'm a 29-year-old man who recently got out of a long-term relationship with someone who I also lost my virginity to. I figured it was time to explore some casual sex and got on Tinder. So far, I've had sex with three women, and all of them actively mentioned we don't need to use condoms or tried to have sex without them. Two of them, I asked, and weren't even on birth control. The most recent hookup ah we had only had one condom, so it could only go one round.
[00:31:06] Mike: but
[00:31:10] Keith: But after she was teasing me and begging me to go raw, I said no a bunch, but it was kind of hot for ah for a little. That is until she just put it in anyway, and I had to push her off. What's the deal here? like These are all smart women with careers or postgraduate degrees. It's wild.
[00:31:26] Mike: Heh
[00:31:26] Keith: Just to clarify, I insist on using condoms. So all right, several things here. One, if you are a woman and
[00:31:33] Mike: heh.
[00:31:34] Keith: You like sex? No man wants to use a condom. like it this This thing where like women are always mystified that men don't want to use condoms ah makes me wonder, okay, let me try to like say my theory here. My theory here is that women who like are totally mystified about why people don't want to use condoms probably don't enjoy sex that much.
[00:32:01] Mike: Oh, interesting. um yeah or Yeah.
[00:32:03] Keith: This is a somewhat hot dig.
[00:32:06] Mike: Yeah, they're viewing it as but well, but in that case, they would view it as only for the man's pleasure. So wouldn't it make more sense for them to understand that?
[00:32:14] Keith: Hmm.
[00:32:15] Mike: Let me think about this. I see your point. You're basically saying that the woman, since the woman should get more out of sex without a condom than with a condom. That's sort of what you're what you're going out there.
[00:32:25] Keith: I mean, I think a big part of condomless sex is the increased intimacy, the fluid bonding, it feels a bit better. um Yeah.
[00:32:35] Mike: For the woman though, I'm not sure that right.
[00:32:41] Keith: You don't, okay, you don't think there's more intimacy or anything to be said for fluid bonding?
[00:32:46] Mike: Oh no, those two, I, those two, I didn't take an issue with it was the actual feels better part.
[00:32:48] Keith: Okay. All right. So it's just the, the, I think it does feel better. I think that latex or what, do what are they use sheepskin? What, what, are what, what other things do they make condoms out of?
[00:32:57] Mike: There's various options. Yes.
[00:32:59] Keith: All right. But almost everybody uses latex. Yeah. I think the latex is subtractive even for women.
[00:33:06] Mike: Okay. ah it it
[00:33:08] Keith: Maybe not as much as for man or whatever, but I take your point.
[00:33:10] Mike: It's definitely not as much as for men. Yeah.
[00:33:12] Keith: Yeah.
[00:33:13] Mike: Okay, so but yeah, sure. I mean, the lack of yeah, I think i think that's right. They're like part of the yes.
[00:33:19] Keith: yeah What I'm specifically saying here is the woman who is incredulous about why men don't want to use condoms. like They're like, don't they understand the risks? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, yeah, everyone knows the risks. In an ideal world, you would be able to ah check or uncheck a box about whether you want to transmit possible pregnancy or possible disease. And yeah, you you can uncheck it. like like nobody It would be nice if yeah protection wasn't needed, and I think everyone would opt to not use it then.
[00:33:54] Mike: Yeah, I think, I mean, I just think there's some caveats to the other thing you said that I would throw in. I think that, yeah, so basically, the women complaining about this probably are viewing the condom sex as
[00:33:58] Keith: Go on.
[00:34:05] Mike: ah a stepping stone toward a relationship based sex encounter where they've been together longer.
[00:34:12] Keith: Uh-huh.
[00:34:14] Mike: And so they're probably thinking about it in those terms. And so it's strictly so like kind of narrowing the focus to the period of time when they're using condoms. Yeah, they're probably not enjoying it that much. They don't care. They're basically like, look, i this is just a thing I have to do to keep the guy interested. Which is pretty like, honestly, that's that's that's it's it's more confusing to me what the woman that That makes sense to me from like a female psychology point of view. It's more confusing to me what the woman who's like, no, I'm having a one-night stand and I want to go condomless, like what she's even thinking, like what what the what what's she getting out of the no condom in that situation?
[00:34:49] Mike: Like she wants to be impregnated by a random person?
[00:34:49] Keith: The argument I would make... No. The man having condomless sex doesn't want to impregnate her either.
[00:34:54] Mike: But that would be the... Sure, but that's like part of the psychological excitement of it for the woman, is like this guy is... Planting his seed in me.
[00:35:09] Keith: ah
[00:35:11] Mike: I don't. Yeah, I mean.
[00:35:11] Keith: Okay, but then but then like why can't...
[00:35:16] Keith: and Okay, look, what if we've had this argument for like 200 episodes now, but yes, I think women can enjoy sex and can enjoy it even in a short-term encounter.
[00:35:28] Mike: No, I agree with that. I just don't think that the guy, whether the guy's wearing a condom or not, it's going to matter that much to that particular, to their enjoyment of a short term.
[00:35:28] Keith: and
[00:35:36] Mike: I don't think they're going to get a lot out of fluid bonding with the guy they met at the bar two hours earlier. That's all.
[00:35:42] Mike: fluid You said fluid bonding.
[00:35:42] Keith: I think...
[00:35:43] Mike: Yeah, there was one other thing you said. Intimacy, I guess.
[00:35:45] Keith: Uh, yeah, yeah, fluid bonding intimacy and it feels better.
[00:35:48] Mike: Yeah.
[00:35:51] Mike: Unless she has some sort of real like um submissive kink where she wants to basically get impregnated or, you know, to have the kind of play act getting impregnated by basically random people.
[00:35:52] Keith: And I think I can more than imagine that.
[00:36:01] Mike: I could imagine that being a thing.
[00:36:06] Keith: I mean, I think, well, I mean, that's just fluid bonding though.
[00:36:12] Mike: Yeah, but but by by somebody they just met. but doesn't It doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the general female mating strategy.
[00:36:20] Keith: I mean, these things are all, it's like the Venn diagram of those three things I mentioned ah overlap.
[00:36:29] Mike: That's true. That's true.
[00:36:30] Keith: So the intimacy is increased by the fluid bonding and the it feeling good is increased by both of those two things as well. And so there's there's some, like, and and the Venn diagram overlap might be shaped different but for men and women, but yeah, I think,
[00:36:51] Keith: ah Yeah, like, I don't understand this man that the man in the question I read doesn't go into enough detail. So I don't really know why these women that he seems to not care about that much to seem to be wanting to have condomless sex with him. But um
[00:37:09] Mike: yeah Let me, let me, let me like, uh, so women, women like to have sort of stepping stones into the, in the physical intimacy that happens in relationships. Like they're generally static. People talk about first base, second base, third base, and so on and so forth. These things are enforced by women, right? If men could kind of define what happens physically in relation in, in, in, in, in encounters with women, men would just be like, look, I just want to fuck.
[00:37:32] Keith: Yeah, everyone would want a 10 run first inning.
[00:37:35] Mike: I want my dick in your ass like right now. like I want to just point at the girl in the in the bar or whatever, and my dick is in her ass 30 seconds later.
[00:37:38] Keith: Right.
[00:37:43] Mike: Something like that would be the guy's preferred.
[00:37:43] Keith: Right.
[00:37:45] Mike: so The women are enforcing this. It makes sense to me that having using a condom during sex is one of these stepping stones. and the reason why i mean To me, it's somewhat obvious. It's more confusing to me why a woman would ah not do that. the the the To me, the the thing that the thing that makes me think is, oh, these women think that making the guy use a condom will make them get dumped by him.
[00:38:08] Keith: Yeah, I think I think there's an age thing here too.
[00:38:08] Mike: He won't follow up.
[00:38:12] Keith: I think that a lot of women as they get older, this man says he's 29, so he's definitely dating women who have been around the block a couple times. um Yeah, I think he's just finding women that whether real or or culturally imposed on them believe that sex should be more open and less gate kept. And so Yeah, with like a, with a 19 year old, she's going to want to slowly parcel things out.
[00:38:42] Keith: But with a, with a 29 year old, I think a lot of them are probably, yeah, they, they enjoy sex more or think they should enjoy sex more. And so yeah, there's less gatekeeping potentially.
[00:38:59] Mike: Thank Yeah, I mean, I obviously don't agree with that. I think that, i think that yes, there's less gatekeeping, but I think it's it's like culturally mediated. I think it's because they, they ah girls, young women, ah ah tend to do whatever their peers are doing. They're very socially malleable. and um they just and and and In this case, it makes sense in a competitive atmosphere because if you're trying to all compete for the best men, they're worried that they won't be able to get into a relationship if they guard sex the way women historically have, and so they feel pressured to do it, but I don't think they actually get much out of it themselves.
[00:39:40] Mike: I'm skeptical of that.
[00:39:40] Keith: Okay. So, so to the extent that women are more available for condomless early sex ah later, as as they age, you think it's because, or you think it might may be because they think that is the ideal strategy.
[00:39:54] Mike: desperation.
[00:39:58] Keith: It's not because they want to because it feels good.
[00:40:01] Mike: I don't think that I mean, yes, modulo the fact that I don't think that women operate that way. I think they operate much more off of social signals from their friends and peers and so forth. And so they're not sitting around thinking for the most part, they're not sitting around thinking what's the optimal strategy. They're just doing what the other women are doing.
[00:40:16] Keith: Yeah. Subconscious.
[00:40:18] Mike: Yeah.
[00:40:18] Keith: Yeah.
[00:40:19] Mike: So so they, yeah, for whatever reason, they believe that the social media dictates that you don't don't need to use a condom or shouldn't because the guy will lose interest um and and keep like I I've asked.
[00:40:19] Keith: Right.
[00:40:35] Mike: I've been in a few social situations recently where I've asked women about this younger women who are on dating apps. And I haven't gotten great answers, but I have to imagine that the experience of getting ghosted by guys that you've let fuck you is really painful. And so women basically will do almost anything to avoid that painful situation happening again. Like it, it's painful for a guy, but I have to think it's much more painful for a woman.
[00:41:04] Keith: Yeah, I don't know if that pain is biological or cultural.
[00:41:13] Mike: Well, yeah, it's both.
[00:41:13] Keith: It's definitely both, but I don't know what it's predominantly.
[00:41:18] Mike: I just think that a woman, I mean, this is what a woman has and also a woman has. Uh, she has to sort of guard her fortress as it were. And the other problem they have is once they let a guy fuck them, something clicks in their mind frequently and they suddenly fall in love with the guy. And then it's tricky to un, tricky to debawn. I was just talking to it someone yesterday about this that the, yeah, he was arguing that women, uh, yeah. Basically, once the dick goes, you've argued this, too, that once once once they have intercourse with the guy like the there's a bond that's formed for the woman that may not be present for the man.
[00:41:56] Keith: yeah
[00:41:58] Mike: So, you know, if they're going to take that step, so I mean, does that to that extent, maybe it's rational. It's like, look, if I'm going to fuck this guy, I should have the most wild sex possible with him. I should basically let him do anything to me he wants to condom list, do whatever, because that then he's more bonded to me and he thinks I'm awesome. Maybe it's a completely rational strategy. Like condoms are maybe a bad decision for women.
[00:42:18] Keith: Yeah. Huh.
[00:42:24] Keith: I mean, it depends on the risk profiles. i thought Okay. There's another thing with condoms that we've discussed a little bit before, maybe even a lot. Like, I don't think pregnancy risk is really like, there really is a fairly brief window where you're available to get pregnant and.
[00:42:48] Keith: I think if it were me, I would know when that window is. Like I think I would carefully notice my hormone patterns. And like, I think there's various apps that you can use to help with this. And I would definitely use such an app and yeah. So there's like, you know, three days a month. So 10% of the time where you're even eligible to get pregnant and yeah.
[00:43:12] Mike: Those are also the horniest days for the woman, which is tricky.
[00:43:18] Mike: And there's also alcohol.
[00:43:18] Keith: Does it exactly lined up? I guess.
[00:43:22] Mike: Of course.
[00:43:21] Keith: and I guess it must.
[00:43:23] Mike: Yeah.
[00:43:23] Keith: Yeah.
[00:43:23] Mike: I mean, you're, that, that, that system is quite well developed, obviously. Yeah. And there's alcohol involved and so forth.
[00:43:27] Keith: yeah
[00:43:29] Mike: So I mean, it's, it's hard to always make good decisions, but I think I could get on board with the idea that it's possible that using condoms is always a mistake for a woman. the thing but But the thing about it is that having like one night stands is also a mistake. um
[00:43:43] Keith: Yeah.
[00:43:43] Mike: But like, let's say, yeah, let's say you're a woman and you've gone on like four Tinder dates. You're on date four with a guy. You really like him.
[00:43:49] Keith: Yeah.
[00:43:50] Mike: Yeah. I mean, you probably, when you have sex with him, you should like deep throat his cock, offer him anal. You should probably do maximal. We can, why not? Right? Like try to make it as fun as possible for him.
[00:44:01] Keith: Maybe maybe should you should intimate that those things are possible, but not actually do them.
[00:44:06] Mike: Yeah, that's right. Oh, oh, that's a good point. Yeah. See, this is right there. You're getting into like the real like female psychology. This is exactly the point. That's a, that's actually a really good argument. Yeah. That's, that's probably the smartest thing you could do because right. What you want is him to have sex with you like 10 times it to get better and better. So yeah, you need to like that.
[00:44:23] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:24] Mike: That's, I didn't even think about that. Right. You don't want to like, you want, yeah, it's like a sales process.
[00:44:27] Keith: You don't want to blow your load early so to speak.
[00:44:31] Mike: and but But that's, but that's the thing is like the condom thing.
[00:44:32] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:34] Mike: See, this is the thing is I don't, when you were, so when you were starting to talk about condoms as a, As a birth control strategy, I actually think in a lot of these cases, it's not a birth control strategy. It's a stepping stone like second base, third base. like That's kind of the funny thing, right? it's it's yeah right in Requiring a guy to get an STI test, I think could be the same thing. it's the yes Yes, it's like for health, but part of it is to create these stepping stones. right it's It's like a sales process. Like, oh, I got him this i got him to like ah to read our brochure.
[00:45:00] Keith: Yeah.
[00:45:04] Mike: I got him to like do a test drive. like Perfect. And so it gives you more like steps to take the guy through.
[00:45:07] Keith: yeah Yeah, I think that's right.
[00:45:10] Mike: um
[00:45:14] Keith: um I had a thought about Yeah, the the female experience of being rejected after a one-night stand I think is bad, but I think it's worse after you've gone on like four or five dates and then had sex once and then they the ghost. And I think that is a super common experience for women.
[00:45:31] Mike: Oh, for sure. Sorry. that Yeah, I agree.
[00:45:32] Keith: like i think I think men will, but well, I'm gonna bring this around to make a larger point here, but yeah, I think men will often
[00:45:33] Mike: That's the worst. Yes.
[00:45:44] Keith: keep dating someone until they actually get laid.
[00:45:48] Mike: Yes.
[00:45:47] Keith: And then once they get laid, unless they really like the girl, they they're like pretty probable to bounce. And so, yeah, and I'm sure that's a really frustrating experience for women, but I feel like they should be able to tell before they have sex, whether the man is employing that strategy or not. Like my my suspicion is that women think that having sex is going to be like a panacea and make an otherwise obviously not working situationship better, but I think it really does.
[00:46:29] Keith: And the man will will just keep going until he gets laid often. And so, yeah.
[00:46:35] Mike: Yeah, I mean, I think the woman's trying to fit whatever the situation is into some kind of mental mental model they have for how a relationship progresses. And so the guy, yeah, so sex would be part of that, yes. Um, I, I don't know. I don't, I, I suspect you're saying they should, I, I suspect most, maybe almost all of the time when a woman gets, uh, ghosted after a sex, after the third date or whatever, she's surprised.
[00:46:59] Keith: Yeah.
[00:47:01] Mike: Like they don't, they don't. Yeah. They're all, I, I would think they're typically surprised. Yeah.
[00:47:08] Keith: yeah
[00:47:10] Mike: By the way, uh, I would recommend, yeah.
[00:47:11] Keith: Yeah, and I don't know. Well, don't forget what you were gonna say, but yeah, I would like to say, I bet that it there's basically a bifurcation. I bet that some women basically never get ghosted because either they're compelling ah intellectually or they're compelling sexually or both.
[00:47:23] Mike: Yeah.
[00:47:34] Keith: And the notion of getting ghosted doesn't even like really make sense to them. And then my guess is that there's like a set of women who like often have the experience of when they have sex, whether it's on the first date or the fourth date, the guy ghosts after. And for those women, my guess would be that like each one like cuts a little bit deeper, because it's like revealing like ah yeah like a not so convenient truth.
[00:48:07] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. ah That's right. The thing I was going to say was just that ah I would recommend using a condom if you go have sex in Lesotho. Because notwithstanding your concerns about, yeah, no I do think it is helpful in the prevention of HIV transmission.
[00:48:17] Keith: Thanks for the chance.
[00:48:22] Mike: so
[00:48:23] Keith: Yes. Yeah, I mean, gosh, yeah, the risk profiles in coastal elite cities in the US versus third world countries in southern Africa are a bit different, obviously.
[00:48:37] Mike: Yes. yes
[00:48:39] Keith: I think I mentioned this earlier, but the HIV rate in Lesotho is 24% second highest in the world.
[00:48:44] Mike: Yes. That's a high percentage.
[00:48:46] Keith: and is
[00:48:48] Mike: must ah It's surprising.
[00:48:48] Keith: Yeah.
[00:48:49] Mike: they they They must have, there must be some program or something that distributes anti or whatever those antiretroviral drugs to prevent them from all having full blown AIDS.
[00:48:56] Keith: I don't know if, I don't know. ah The average age is quite low in Lesotho. I'm not sure those drugs make it into third world countries.
[00:49:07] Mike: Wow. so So there's a lot of very sick people, presumably.
[00:49:12] Keith: Yes. Well,
[00:49:14] Mike: Carposi sarcoma.
[00:49:17] Keith: My understanding, and and this may be wrong, um, is that if you get HIV and you don't have access to the amazing drugs that have been developed in the West, uh, it's pretty short and sweet or short and not sweet.
[00:49:32] Mike: Right. Well, so, but if it's that, if it's 24% of the population, Hmm.
[00:49:34] Keith: Um, like people in the eighties, I think we're dying. I know, but I think people in the eighties were dying, like, you know, within 18 months of contracting.
[00:49:45] Mike: Okay. That, that would imply a very high mortality rate in those countries.
[00:49:47] Keith: But I don't remember. ah Yeah, I think the average age in Lesotho is super low. I think the ah life expectancy is like 54 or 53.
[00:50:05] Keith: um Yeah, it's just sort of heartbreaking, really, that they still, and and but as you get a bit more north in Africa, malaria becomes a bigger problem. but malaria is not an issue in Lesotho. The lowest point and in Lesotho is 1400 meters or 5,000 feet.
[00:50:24] Mike: It does look like there's a actually 90, it says 90, I just searched online, 90% of the population of Lesotho who has HIV is on ART.
[00:50:32] Keith: Oh, great.
[00:50:34] Mike: So the World Health Organization has made that possible. And you know, that there are new treatments that take your viral, actually, I would expect HIV to sort of disappear over time because the transmission odds can be lowered dramatically by correct drug treatments.
[00:50:37] Keith: That's... Yeah.
[00:50:51] Keith: Yeah. My understanding is the HIV rate in all of the, so the top 10, like HIV countries are the 10 Southern most countries in Africa. Um, and I'm not sure why it's, it's higher in Southern Africa versus central or, or Western or Eastern Africa.
[00:51:05] Mike: I've seen arguments about, um I have an argument that I can tell you that just for fun, ah that it's related to circumcision and circumcision is more prevalent when you go North in Africa because of Islamic influence.
[00:51:09] Keith: Okay. Yeah.
[00:51:19] Keith: Does circumcision, do people who are circumcised have less rough anal sex?
[00:51:29] Mike: No, it's so honestly, I'm not sure i'm not sure if the the mode of helping is known, and I'm not even sure that my data is correct on this, but I think that ah there's some statistical belief.
[00:51:40] Keith: buts It's been speculated that circumcision and may have an impact.
[00:51:44] Mike: Yes.
[00:51:45] Keith: Yeah, hard to know if it's causal or correlative though.
[00:51:46] Mike: Yes.
[00:51:49] Mike: The guess I would have is something like it might alter the female to male transmission rate. Not, yeah, the, ah the, ah the ability of the man to get it with more foreskin surface area.
[00:51:56] Keith: Yeah. Oh, I see. Yeah.
[00:52:00] Mike: Maybe there's some, something in there. Anyhow.
[00:52:05] Keith: I have no idea. And gosh, if there's a disease expert listening to this, they're probably screaming into their to the ether right now at us for our for our ignorance.
[00:52:15] Mike: Yeah.
[00:52:16] Keith: Yeah.
[00:52:19] Keith: All right. Let me see if I can find something else. I don't remember. ah
[00:52:24] Mike: Yeah, 60% reduction in female to male. It's exactly what I said. ah so ah Voluntary male, this is from a, what is it called? Well, anyway, a Gemini, Google's AI system. Voluntary medical male circumcision can reduce the risk of HIV treatment, transmission from male to female by about 60% during had heterosexual contact.
[00:52:37] Keith: Oh, yeah, great.
[00:52:45] Keith: What that is.
[00:52:46] Mike: so
[00:52:48] Keith: That's a pretty strong argument in favor of circumcision.
[00:52:54] Mike: Well, if you're in a place where there's a lot of HIV, yes.
[00:52:58] Keith: Well, yeah, but if it affects Um, HIV transmission, it might affect other bacterial or viral transmission.
[00:53:10] Mike: Could be. I mean, I'm not sure. Well, I mean, I'm sure there was a reason they, the practice was done in ancient times. They might've figured out something.
[00:53:18] Keith: I doubt it. I don't know. Maybe, maybe.
[00:53:22] Mike: You think so? I mean, you think that they were just like, look, how can we prove our fidelity to our our our God?
[00:53:27] Keith: I don't know.
[00:53:28] Mike: We'll just cut off part of our cock.
[00:53:29] Keith: um I don't know. The male circumcision is extremely confusing to me.
[00:53:36] Mike: Yeah.
[00:53:35] Keith: And I wish it hadn't been done to me, but it has. Didn't get to choose.
[00:53:43] Mike: But in Lesotho, you could benefit from it.
[00:53:43] Keith: Okay. i would have That's right. That's right.
[00:53:48] Mike: So.
[00:53:48] Keith: I'm about 50% less likely to get AIDS.
[00:53:51] Mike: Did you get any Tinder matches there?
[00:53:51] Keith: That's great.
[00:53:54] Keith: in Lesotho, uh, I don't think I ever had my location in Lesotho.
[00:53:56] Mike: Yeah.
[00:54:00] Mike: That's too bad.
[00:54:01] Keith: Yeah.
[00:54:03] Mike: All right.
[00:54:04] Keith: But, uh, yeah, I don't know. Lesotho is incredibly poor. Like the the GDP per capita is less than a thousand dollars.
[00:54:15] Mike: Yeah.
[00:54:14] Keith: And so most people don't have cell phones. The internet there is very bad anyway. So I'm not even sure Tinder
[00:54:23] Keith: would be possible in such a place.
[00:54:27] Mike: Fair point.
[00:54:28] Keith: There's just not enough density of people with with with cell phones or internet access.
[00:54:28] Mike: Okay.
[00:54:33] Mike: Yeah.
[00:54:33] Keith: um Okay, we have time for one more quick thing.
[00:54:33] Mike: and A new iPhone is their entire GDP per capita. Yeah. Okay. Go on.
[00:54:37] Keith: Right, right. I mean, I think it's ridiculous that poor people in the United States buy iPhones. like Anyway, you know this, but I just want to say this, there are extremely inexpensive and mostly completely functional smartphones available, and they get marketed in these third world countries. you know They're like $75 or something, and they do.
[00:54:57] Mike: Sure.
[00:54:58] Keith: 98% of what like your iPhone 17 Max Pro XL does. um And so, yeah. i Anyway, some brief rant there.
[00:55:14] Mike: Yeah.
[00:55:14] Keith: Okay. When you are receiving a blowjob,
[00:55:20] Keith: OK, one thing I like about vaginal sex is when I'm about to nut, I can sort of control the pacing and you know go balls deep and get the feeling that like maximizes my my orgasm. But when I'm getting a blowjob, ah that is not as easily available. um Some women like it when you you know put your hands on their head and sort of like force them to do what you would like, but many don't, probably most. And at the very least, that should probably be discussed. um So in like an early hookup situation, that may not have happened.
[00:56:02] Keith: And as a ah blowjob aficionado as you are, I was curious whether you find that it takes a while with a new partner to get ah blowjobs to completion to be satisfying.
[00:56:19] Mike: I think that it's complicated. a couple things on this It's complicated for a woman to ah know what to do exactly and even to accomplish it because, um I mean, imagine if you were giving oral sex to a woman and you knew that there was a a thing you needed to do. Let's say that what you needed to do while she's climaxing is sort of place your tongue flat against her clit and like sort of move it slowly. Let's imagine that's what you're supposed to do when she's coming.
[00:56:46] Keith: Okay.
[00:56:46] Mike: Okay. But at the same time, well, this gets a little complicated, but her clit is, imagine it's in your mouth a ways.
[00:56:47] Keith: Yep.
[00:56:54] Mike: And at the same time as she's orgasmic, some fluid starts squirting out of it, which just makes it inherently a little difficult because you're now multitasking between these two operations of like managing the fluid flow, ah maybe gagging on it, et cetera. and trying to do the exact right thing. And so even I think an experienced woman, it's going to be difficult to to manage this. ah I think this is one of the reasons why in porn, I think it's fair to say the vast majority of the time when a guy comes in or an oral sex scenario, he's beating off in porn because because it's sort of it's it's sufficiently complicated.
[00:57:26] Keith: Yes.
[00:57:32] Mike: to manage this. Also, look, there's a few reasons. One is it's like for the porn star, it can be difficult to get him off. The oral.
[00:57:38] Keith: Yes.
[00:57:40] Mike: um Yeah, and then and then.
[00:57:40] Keith: Yeah. Or any, anyway.
[00:57:44] Mike: Yeah, and then they also want to show the cum shot. um But yeah, I mean, basically, it's it's it's sort of complicated.
[00:57:46] Keith: Right.
[00:57:51] Mike: um And. It can also be, diff yeah, it can be difficult to sort of get there as a guy, because like the right stimulation has to be there at the right time and so forth. So I think my answer is yes, this is always sort of a challenge. And it's very it's very easy for the woman to like, when you go balls deep in a vagina, you know that like there isn't some internal structure in there that's going to do something uncomfortable for you. Like start rubbing against the head of your cock when you don't want that.
[00:58:18] Keith: Yeah.
[00:58:20] Mike: Whereas there the tongue naturally might do things like that.
[00:58:20] Keith: Yep. Yep.
[00:58:24] Mike: Yeah.
[00:58:23] Keith: Yes.
[00:58:24] Mike: So this is generally an issue. I agree.
[00:58:26] Keith: Okay. So ah what I guess just practice and time with a new partner and they sort of learn what it is that you like.
[00:58:40] Mike: Well, I mean, I think it's that as well as the, I mean, there are things you can do to avoid this specific issue. Like you can beat off onto her tongue, you can kind of, uh, take control and sort of thrust into her mouth. Uh, there are things you can do, but the, but, but I think ultimately there has to be something in it psychologically for you to coming in her mouth and watching her swallow your cum.
[00:58:58] Keith: yeah
[00:59:07] Mike: I think that has to be like, there's some dominance aspect there that has to make it exciting for you.
[00:59:07] Keith: i see i say okay but
[00:59:11] Keith: the the The thing on the other side of the teeter-totter there is that yeah the dominance aspect is is is amplified more in a blowjob scenario.
[00:59:20] Mike: Yeah, because you're, because you're imposing your ejaculation, your your orgasm much more on her in a blowjob scenario than in a PIV scenario, right?
[00:59:26] Keith: Right.
[00:59:28] Mike: She's, and that's, that's, that's exciting.
[00:59:28] Keith: Yeah, okay.
[00:59:32] Mike: Have you, do you not find that exciting?
[00:59:32] Keith: Okay. I do. I do. I don't think I find it as exciting as others, but I think I've almost ah Yeah, I think for much of my life, I convinced myself that I'm not supposed to find that exciting, that it's like rude and disrespectful to find that exciting. And as we've, you know, had this, these conversations over the last five or six years, or however long we've been doing this ridiculous podcast.
[00:59:54] Mike: Huh.
[01:00:05] Mike: Right.
[01:00:05] Keith: ah Yeah, I've like sort of come around on that point of view. And but, you know, putting it into action takes time.
[01:00:12] Mike: Yeah. Well, the woman can like it too, because it's fun for them to sort of submit to your, to this kind of gross thing you're doing to them.
[01:00:16] Keith: Right, right, right.
[01:00:18] Mike: Um,
[01:00:20] Keith: Yes, I can intellectualize that.
[01:00:21] Mike: And in some ways, in some ways it's in some ways it's more intimate, right? I mean, it's her face and she's, yeah, so, but at the other yeah, to your point though, to it from ah from a purely physical standpoint, yes, coming in a vagina is more, feels better, right?
[01:00:25] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Now I ah get it. It's just, you know, feeling it in my bones.
[01:00:41] Mike: Like it it is designed to to extract the semen and give you maximum pleasure.
[01:00:41] Keith: Yeah, okay.
[01:00:45] Mike: I think that's correct. It's just, you know, that's not always what you want.
[01:00:47] Keith: OK. Right. There's just other positives of of blow jobs. Yeah. OK. All right. I got it. All right. That'll do it for this episode of Your Mileage May Very. You can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod at gmail dot.com. We pay for feedback, $10.
[01:01:05] Keith: And if you ask us a question and you don't want us to use it on the air, let us know.
[01:01:08] Mike: You
[01:01:11] Keith: Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next week on Your Mileage May Very.
[01:01:17] Mike: know?