Your Mileage May Vary: Ally's Naughty Desires, Woke Mate Selection, Cum Shot Glasses, Psychological Dominance

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00:02] Ally: If you had impregnated a lot of women, would you want to be involved with the children at all? Or would you want to see how they're being raised? Or would you just ignore the fact that they exist?
[00:00:11] Mike: I mean, I think I have a an innate desire to do that, but I think it might be culturally mediated. I think that men men generally don't have, like that's not part of our brain coding or whatever.
[00:00:23] Mike: So I think I'm, I probably, yeah, and there's a volume at which, you know, you would be impossible to do such a thing, right? Like if I had a thousand kids or something like that.
[00:00:30] Ally: and Yeah, so you think the process of having more and more children, you would detach from each individual child more. Like by the time you're having your 13th kid or something, you wouldn't really care as much.
[00:00:43] Mike: Well, especially especially if I was a powerful man in a situation where women just wanted to collect my semen because they thought it was so important to have my errors, which would be really, really hot.
[00:00:43] Ally: and Yeah.
[00:00:52] Mike: I mean, does can you in any way, like does that make sense to you at all?
[00:00:54] Ally: Oh, yeah.
[00:00:56] Mike: It's like a thing that would be hot. It does.
[00:00:58] Ally: It makes sense. Yeah, I can. I can empathize with that. I can understand.
[00:01:03] Mike: are you a little are Are you a little jealous of the fact that men can do that?
[00:01:09] Ally: No.
[00:01:10] Mike: like You have this annoying body part that like can only produce one kid at a time, whereas like we have this body part that can produce like tens of thousands.
[00:01:18] Ally: Yeah, so i if if I have to choose between you know which set of reproductive organs I have, it does seem better to have the one that's less like tied down by the prospect of childbirth.
[00:01:33] Ally: It does seem nice that when you have sex, you're ultimately like not that concerned about whether it results in pregnancy because that wouldn't materially affect your existence really in any way, whereas women are always a little bit more afraid of it because it could fuck you up.
[00:01:45] Mike: Sounds like that
[00:01:49] Ally: you know It could really affect your life.
[00:01:52] Mike: sounds like you don't want to be a mother then.
[00:01:54] Ally: Oh, no, no, I don't.
[00:01:56] Mike: But you haven't had yourself sterilized.
[00:01:58] Ally: No.
[00:01:59] Mike: Because you're afraid of that.
[00:02:01] Ally: fairly invasive procedure. I have an IUD that lasts for 11 years or something and has no other side effects for me at least. So that's been big enough cocks to dislodge an IUD.
[00:02:12] Mike: That's just because you don't fuck guys with big enough cocks.
[00:02:17] Ally: that's
[00:02:17] Mike: No, no, to feel the IUD strings or whatever.
[00:02:20] Ally: ah No, so so I think that my partners do feel it.
[00:02:21] Mike: and
[00:02:25] Ally: I just think it doesn't ruin the experience for them. It's not painful.
[00:02:29] Mike: Alters it. Okay, right. Because you you you you think your strings are a little more flexible than others that you can get. I remember talking about this. Okay.
[00:02:38] Ally: Yeah, and I've never, a guy has never been inside me and been like, ah, ouch, what's that? You know, it doesn't seem like.
[00:02:45] Mike: And we know and we have established that you fantasize about having a cock.
[00:02:49] Ally: Yeah, yeah, I mean, not like regular life, but right, like when masturbating, I like to think about being a guy.
[00:02:51] Mike: I'm being able to say.
[00:02:57] Ally: Yeah.
[00:02:57] Mike: Do you ever like look do I have a question? This was in my show notes to ask you, actually, do you ever. um Like, in like do you do you ever like get a mirror and look at your vagina?
[00:03:09] Ally: No.
[00:03:10] Mike: ah Never have you ever.
[00:03:12] Ally: um Yeah, I have. I would say probably when I was going through puberty, because A, all of the books that you get like encourage you to explore and do that, and B, wanting to like really understand like where is the tampon going.
[00:03:27] Ally: So like yeah, when I was like new to it, you know sure, but not now.
[00:03:28] Mike: Okay.
[00:03:30] Ally: I mean, by now like I understand what's there.
[00:03:33] Mike: Okay. So you just don't, what is, so what are you able to see without a mirror? Like, let's say you were in the wild, right? You were a woman in the wild.
[00:03:43] Ally: oh
[00:03:44] Mike: Let's say it was the year 5000 BC and they'd had an invented polished metal yet and you weren't near any very still ponds.
[00:03:44] Ally: ah
[00:03:50] Ally: i
[00:03:52] Mike: What would you be able to see?
[00:03:54] Ally: yeah
[00:03:54] Mike: So a man can see a seman can see pretty much his entire apparatus, although he cannot see his anus, obviously.
[00:03:58] Ally: oh Right, yeah, I mean, I can't see my own anus either. um I was thinking there would be a good like rewriting of the Narcissus story where it's like looking at your vagina in a pond.
[00:04:03] Mike: Okay.
[00:04:11] Mike: I'm sure that women did that. I mean, but before Jorah, I mean, there's some curiosity and whatnot.
[00:04:15] Ally: I mean, I can see the whole vagina.
[00:04:23] Mike: Really?
[00:04:24] Ally: Yeah, I can't see the
[00:04:24] Mike: But you can't see your anus. I mean, there's not much distance between the sort of the lower end of the vagina and the anus, really.
[00:04:28] Ally: anus.
[00:04:31] Mike: So, I mean...
[00:04:32] Ally: So maybe I can see just barely the end of the vagina.
[00:04:38] Mike: Okay. But you can't, obviously, you can't see into the vagina. So you don't have a clear picture of what's going on in there other than your experience when you were with the mirror long back.
[00:04:42] Ally: No.
[00:04:49] Ally: Right. I don't think it's changed. I mean, I get last year's as required by medical professionals and they've never said like, Oh, that's weird.
[00:04:51] Mike: Are you sure? i mean
[00:04:59] Mike: Okay.
[00:05:00] Ally: No,
[00:05:01] Mike: Don't you think, I mean, let's say that you know that you have an amorous encounter coming up with a guy. You wouldn't sort of just check it to make sure there's nothing weird going on.
[00:05:09] Ally: no what would, yeah, I mean, what, what would be weird?
[00:05:11] Mike: You just assume it's good.
[00:05:15] Mike: I don't know.
[00:05:15] Ally: like i can stick a finger up inside me and feel, I guess if it feels normal, but like what would be visually different?
[00:05:25] Mike: um I don't know, redness, swelling, you would feel all those things, though.
[00:05:30] Ally: you wouldn't feel right
[00:05:30] Mike: I don't know, it's men don't have men, although ah non homosexual men don't have this experience of ah going out on a date and knowing that somebody's going to be using a part of their body that they can't easily see.
[00:05:31] Ally: i guess and
[00:05:46] Mike: You know, sort of so that I feels like something that can make you insecure because you're not totally confident that like it looks the way you want it to and so forth.
[00:05:46] Ally: Yeah.
[00:05:49] Ally: So I'll
[00:05:54] Mike: This could also deal with like grooming habits and stuff like that, like pubic hair and the like.
[00:06:00] Ally: usually shave my pubic hair, particularly if it's like an early encounter.
[00:06:05] Mike: OK.
[00:06:06] Ally: um Do you look all around your ball sack before you have sex? like
[00:06:11] Mike: No, not necessarily. But the thing is that it's not. ah I mean, that's not as it's not the operative part in the same way it is for. I mean, I do.
[00:06:21] Ally: Yeah.
[00:06:22] Mike: I would be aware of what's going on with like, like I would know if there was um something weird going on with my my penis.
[00:06:28] Ally: Yeah. do you Do you shave all of your like pubic hair?
[00:06:29] Mike: But yeah, like. ah No, men don't typically do that, and as as you would know from porn.
[00:06:36] Ally: OK. Not even for the first time, you you don't want it to be smoother and look bigger.
[00:06:39] Mike: Not go ahead, not even.
[00:06:45] Mike: I think that would actually so if look bigger. If you as a woman, if a guy if you were having sex the first time with a guy and his entire package was shaved, how would you take that?
[00:06:56] Ally: um
[00:06:59] Ally: um Um, I would say like 80% like, Oh, that's nice. Like he did this for me so that, you know, there's no hairs that are going to get in my mouth or something.
[00:07:07] Mike: Really?
[00:07:08] Ally: And then 20%, I'd be like, maybe this guy's gay.
[00:07:12] Mike: Yeah, I would think that he was at the club.
[00:07:14] Ally: Yeah.
[00:07:14] Mike: uh, like using a glory hole or something, something, so something odd going on with the guy, but you wouldn't only 20% you would, I would think like night, like put it this way.
[00:07:18] Ally: Hmm.
[00:07:24] Mike: This is actually a data point. You may, you don't have, uh, I've many, many, many times been in the gym locker room with people showering in a gang shower or whatever.
[00:07:27] Ally: um
[00:07:33] Mike: And seen many, many guys, penises, none of them have ever been fully shaped zero.
[00:07:37] Ally: Okay, right i do you think they're like trimmed a little better?
[00:07:40] Mike: Oh, maybe, maybe, but they're never, there's no if they were completely shaved, everybody would be, it would be of note, it would be of note.
[00:07:49] Ally: Really? Okay.
[00:07:50] Mike: Oh yeah.
[00:07:50] Ally: You see guys shave their chest hair if they're like a hairy guy.
[00:07:54] Mike: Not in a way that's obvious, although sometimes swimmers will be like our bi bikers will be, although their chest hair is a little bit different, but like their legs and arms and stuff like that. um But yeah, i I've never, you would be notable if somebody was excessively or extra groomed like that.
[00:08:12] Ally: Okay. And you would think that that was a gay thing to do.
[00:08:12] Mike: Yeah.
[00:08:15] Mike: Right.
[00:08:16] Ally: Okay.
[00:08:16] Mike: So we were talking before the show about your, ah your
[00:08:21] Mike: What ethnicity of men you like to date? ah because You mentioned that a fireman, a firefighter who happened to be African-American was was, yeah, he talked to you and you didn't, you thought he might've been gay and you were not at all.
[00:08:28] Ally: and right i can fire
[00:08:33] Mike: he He, I think, flirted with you. He was curious what you were reading, I think.
[00:08:38] Ally: Yeah, I was holding a book and he came up and he was like, hey, I have to ask you a question. Is that book good? you know And then we talked a little bit about the book.
[00:08:43] Mike: What was the book? It wasn't like mind calm for something.
[00:08:45] Ally: It's called No, no, it's called Martyr by Kaveh Akbar. It's a fiction book.
[00:08:51] Mike: Okay.
[00:08:51] Ally: It's a novel. Actually, like one of my friends recommended it to me and sent it to me.
[00:08:53] Mike: All right.
[00:08:55] Ally: So I was very early on in the book. I got only read the first two chapters, so we didn't have much to talk about. The only reason that I thought he might be gay was his fireman shirt or whatever, like had the logo of like Oakland Fire Department or something, but the logo was rainbow.
[00:09:10] Ally: I don't know if they just like got that shirt as part of like Fireman Pride Month or whatever. or
[00:09:16] Mike: No, actually they require all gay firemen to wear a shirt with a rainbow on it.
[00:09:20] Ally: right That would be very helpful for yeah for women in the wild.
[00:09:20] Mike: you know, so you know which ones are gay and that's that's it's not it's not it's well it's no it's actually so that other men can know which firemen to fuck right it's not yeah okay and you but you were not attracted to him at all because of his ethnicity okay and that's because you prefer
[00:09:31] Ally: Yeah, that would be helpful. Yeah.
[00:09:38] Ally: Correct. Yeah. I would have been a white fireman. So he not only did he you know talk to me about the book, but then, as I was telling you like later, i went I was sitting in the window of the cafe, and he was like outside. He came over and like waved and smiled at me through the window and stuff. and so like it It felt a little bit flirty, but then also if he was gay, maybe he just feels like friendly.
[00:09:53] Mike: Right.
[00:09:57] Ally: So hard to tell. um But yeah, I was telling you, like I've never been attracted to a black man. And really, as far as I can remember, only to like one Asian man and maybe one Hispanic man.
[00:10:08] Ally: And I think that this is probably common and probably genetic, I assume that most people are attracted predominantly to exclusively to their own race, their own ethnicity, and probably if they're mixed to the ethnicity of their opposite gender parent, because to me that makes sense, like evolutionarily.
[00:10:26] Mike: Okay. Okay. So you think that you think that even if you had an even mix of ethnicities in a geographical area, you know and then you forward the clock 250 years, there would the families would still be fairly homogeneous because the people would not choose randomly or or whatever based on personality.
[00:10:46] Mike: they would They would stick within their communities even if there was an encouragement to or whatever. There was no discouragement to to do that.
[00:10:52] Ally: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:54] Mike: And this is something you feel, I mean, women are the more selective, women are the the deciders in this, right? I mean, this is the positive you have from having that that awful organ that can only produce one child every year, ah but you get to pick, right?
[00:11:06] Ally: Right.
[00:11:07] Mike: And so you're saying you you want to, and you are a Caucasian woman.
[00:11:12] Ally: Yeah, yeah, women are more selective about this, I think. And it's hard to disentangle you know societal and familial pressure from this.
[00:11:24] Ally: like In your example, like I think what you're saying is true that you would still see um the same sorts of of distinctions between groups. But I think some of that probably would be from like familial and societal pressure.
[00:11:37] Ally: Also, you're never like choosing a partner in a vacuum. There's always some part of you that's like, well, what are my friends going to think? Or what are my family going to think about?
[00:11:43] Mike: ah This is, that's really interesting to me. And the reason that's interesting to me is I have, okay, I have no, okay. I've imagined, this is just in my imagination, but I'd like you to validate, but it it relate relates to this kind of friend, kind of um social acceptance ah aspect of being a woman, I think. I've imagined that women,
[00:12:05] Mike: ah allow their political views to influence their their um mate choice, mate selection. Do you think that's true? so for So for example, somebody, a woman who's taken in by ah sort of far left or far right ideology, a far far right might only, that you're really exclusive to someone like you, I guess, would only exclusively date within her own ethnicity.
[00:12:29] Mike: But no, no, let's let's just, let's take for the sake of argument.
[00:12:30] Ally: I'm so far away.
[00:12:32] Mike: Let's say you're let's say you're a centrist. Let's put you in the middle. But on one side, and then far, but of course, being living in the San Francisco Bay Area, I feel like I see it more on the far left spectrum where I think women, I've imagined that women might like aggressively try to break that stereotype because of the positive um feedback they might get from their friends or
[00:12:53] Ally: They might, but I think that would you would really only see that in short relationships or in you know flings or one-night stands or something. I don't think that the fleeting approbation of your friend group is going to influence your like years-long relationship because you have to spend a lot of time with that guy like on your own.
[00:13:12] Mike: and it's something But it's something you brought up, you brought up that like the, you so you only meant that in a fleet in a fleeting thing that you would select somebody based on what your friends might say.
[00:13:12] Ally: you know
[00:13:19] Ally: Oh, you know what I mean?
[00:13:24] Ally: I think you might choose who to date and you also might evaluate the sort of long-term prospects of a relationship based on what your friends and family would think. And i I don't get the sense that the liberal like encouragement that you're imagining is so fully like toward interracal and interracial relationships.
[00:13:54] Mike: Really.
[00:13:54] Ally: I feel like the liberal position is, you know, you should be free to date or fuck whoever you want. And if that happens to be somebody who's not of your race, that's great, but not that like you should proactively choose to fuck somebody who's not of your race, because I think they would say that as also being like, discrimination.
[00:14:08] Mike: OK.
[00:14:11] Mike: So why why then? And I don't think I think this I can say I can say this with some authority.
[00:14:17] Ally: o
[00:14:17] Mike: In other words, I don't need to like prove this one. Why after the. I'll call them the George flod Floyd riots in 2020. Why after that did the advertising on television suddenly start platforming into racial couples like a lot?
[00:14:30] Mike: what Why did that happen? If you're saying it's just you should be able to date whoever you want, like that, I don't think that's, I think, yeah, didn't that, maybe you don't, do you not consume television?
[00:14:41] Ally: Not very much. Definitely not enough to see commercials.
[00:14:42] Mike: All right. Okay, it did.
[00:14:43] Ally: like
[00:14:44] Mike: It did. All right. They started, they started platforming and i could I could pull up data to sort of prove this, but like they definitely did start platforming this stuff a lot.
[00:14:49] Ally: yeah
[00:14:51] Ally: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is that because you want to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible? And so if you have a black person and a white person together in the commercial, you're appealing to both black and white people, like they'll both see themselves in the commercial.
[00:15:02] Mike: But if if what you're saying is true and people typically want to date within their own ethnicity, then that would actually just turn off large you know both black and white people.
[00:15:03] Ally: like
[00:15:12] Mike: They'd say, well, this is something I wouldn't typically do. And so it wouldn't appeal to anybody, basically. The thing that makes sense to me is they're using it to like send a political message that, hey, this is we this is what we think is good.
[00:15:18] Ally: Oh,
[00:15:23] Mike: This is good. Is is people doing this? This is what we want to see.
[00:15:29] Ally: they I guess they could be signaling in that way as like, you know, look how virtuous we are, I guess, we're showing this type of relationship. I was thinking of a more basic representational view where it's like, you know, no matter what they're kind of doing in the commercial, if you just like see a black person in the commercial and you're black, maybe you maybe even subconsciously identify with that person in the same sense that like if there's a commercial and you have like a man and a woman who are both drinking Coke, then you're like, oh, you our female viewers can implicitly identify with the woman and our male viewers can implicitly identify with the man. And it doesn't really matter whether you're positing that those people are in a relationship or brother and sister or whatever. just
[00:16:12] Mike: Sure, this is why my parents, when I was a child, only gave us ah black dolls to play with. They wanted to sort of platform that and and and and and make make it something that we could we could better, ah yeah, something that would fit better, something where we could identify with, that's what I want to say.
[00:16:17] Ally: yeah
[00:16:26] Ally: Yeah. Well, actually, yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing, right? It's like you don't see more commercial, or maybe you do, but I'm assuming you don't see more commercials pivoting to showing only black people.
[00:16:37] Ally: That would be like really long thing, really.
[00:16:37] Mike: No, you do also. Yeah, you see that as well.
[00:16:40] Ally: Even for just for generic products like Firestone Tigers, here's all these black people, like, okay.
[00:16:43] Mike: Yeah. Actually, I'll tell you a funny little anecdote. So I live in Oakland, so where this firemen and I, I have positive general feelings about the Oakland Fire Department.
[00:16:55] Ally: Oh, okay.
[00:16:55] Mike: ah For me, ah but I go for runs in the area and um I was running and listening to music or something.
[00:17:06] Mike: I was listening to something that like radio on but but via my cell phone, and they have advertisements that play every so often on this thing. which It was YouTube, actually. I had something on YouTube that was playing, and I was you know significantly south of Oakland, and I was running toward Oakland, ultimately i entered Oakland, and right around when I entered Oakland, all of the ads switched from having white people to black people in them, and it was just obvious.
[00:17:28] Ally: o
[00:17:29] Mike: I could tell based on the accents and the tone of white. It was just very clear. I didn't even have to look at the phone and the video to know they had done this. And so yeah so absolutely they do that. And not only that, but like it's it's geographically targeted.
[00:17:42] Ally: I have noticed that with podcast ads, sometimes I'll get podcast ads in Spanish, depending on like where I was when I downloaded the podcast.
[00:17:48] Mike: Yeah, right.
[00:17:49] Ally: um
[00:17:50] Mike: And so they yeah they try to they try to make them fit ah fit the demographic area, just like the dolls or anything like that.
[00:17:54] Ally: Yeah. Okay, so you think that if you're seeing more commercials with interracial couples, that's because your geographic area has more interracial couples?
[00:18:03] Mike: I don't. I think it's because I think it's a ah the thing the point I was advancing before is what I think, which is that it's an attempt to normalize and to and encourage and ultimately probably that's why I was so curious about the thing you said probably influence young women.
[00:18:04] Ally: Okay.
[00:18:18] Mike: to ah want to enter into interracial relationships relationships because that's the thing that their friends will be impressed by. You're saying that a women woman would not do that in the long term.
[00:18:29] Mike: It would just it would just create flings, which is entirely possible. But I think that's at least the the goal.
[00:18:33] Ally: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Mike: It's a little Orwellian in that sense.
[00:18:35] Ally: And because I don't think that your friends would be impressed by it, I guess.
[00:18:43] Ally: I don't think the level of...
[00:18:44] Mike: Oh, you don't have the right friends.
[00:18:49] Mike: there's definitely I think you're definitely wrong about that. there's you really you're i think that I think that there is definitely a substantial group of people in the United States right now who would find it downright impressive if one was in an interracial couple. They would be like, oh, wow, how progressive of you.
[00:19:05] Ally: Hmm, but I feel like those people are themselves not progressive then if they're pointing it out because it seems to me like in my social circles like the polite thing would be not to bring attention to it at all like you wouldn't say like oh Sarah like wow you started dating a black guy like you know you just like wouldn't mention it at all because you want to make it seem as though like this is entirely normal you know there's nothing at all to be remarked upon it that you're dating a black person like
[00:19:30] Mike: Is that really your apprehension of progressivism, is that the goal is to a sort of a race blind society?
[00:19:38] Ally: in in many ways, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:40] Mike: Really?
[00:19:41] Ally: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:41] Mike: And why, I mean, so why would
[00:19:43] Ally: Because there's this thing about like trying to get people, you know, when you're telling a story, not to tell the race of somebody unless it's relevant, right? Not to say like, oh, I was in the grocery store in this like black cashier. The progressives would say like, why did you why did you have to point out that there was a black cashier?
[00:19:55] Ally: You know, like, why can't you just say this cashier? Like, is that relevant?
[00:19:57] Mike: you know you know for You know, for example, that in the last three years, the Associated Press style, which is like the style guide for all journalists, switched so that you have to capitalize the word black instead of lowercase.
[00:20:03] Ally: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:07] Mike: So they're like actually, and the point of capitalizing something is to make it more, to jump out at you, right? It's to make it more platformed, right?
[00:20:15] Ally: Well, I think probably black people asked for that or some black people asked for that.
[00:20:20] Mike: I can't imagine no normal black person would ask because you wind up with these crazy articles where black is capitalized and white is not capitalized. And so it looks, it's the, it's the I was saying to a friend, ah a mutual friend of ours, is this guy, Eric, who's been on the show, that it's like ah the kind of canonical drawing that's made when you go to the, like a psychologist asks the family to draw, everybody to draw a picture of the family.
[00:20:29] Ally: yeah
[00:20:43] Mike: and And one of the kids draws like the dad really small and the mom really big.
[00:20:43] Ally: ah
[00:20:47] Ally: ah
[00:20:47] Mike: but And then the psychologist says, well, why did you draw your mom so big? And then it's supposed to be, oh, because she has the power, right? And it's literally the same thing, right? Just done via in in in writing.
[00:20:58] Ally: No, I agree.
[00:20:58] Mike: Have you not noticed this?
[00:21:00] Ally: i I assume that that's because some, at least, you know small advocacy group like really pestered them to do that. I don't think they did that of their own accord. and
[00:21:10] Mike: I don't know about that. I think that that i think it's a desire to, see I mean, I think that um your hopeful view that the the desire is to kind of make it so these distinctions go away is not actually the correct one. I think the desire is to make the distinctions as visible as possible. And that's because of this view that in the past, people who did not make them visible were were complicit in covering up evil.
[00:21:40] Mike: but makes sense. So it's ah you know by not talking about it, ah you there's also like, I mean, the um ah there's this is this is like a big topic, but I mean, there's a lot of stuff you see on Reddit where ah if the race of someone is in a crime article is mentioned, ah then you know theyre then you know what their race is.
[00:21:51] Ally: Oh.
[00:21:56] Mike: Otherwise, if they don't mention it all, you know they're black. right And so this like this so this little game they play and it's like, look, that's it's actually to me, it's actually more offensive.
[00:21:59] Ally: but
[00:22:03] Mike: or what not sure what but It's bizarre because everybody knows the game they're playing. it's like They're not playing chess, they're playing Candyland. It's obviously happening.
[00:22:11] Ally: Yeah. There was a good like as an else kid about this where it's like a newsroom and they're starting to tell a story and they're talking about a you know a criminal and then they're like in this Asian guy and like the two black hosts are like oh thank god it wasn't one of ours you know.
[00:22:13] Mike: um
[00:22:26] Mike: Sure. Yeah. That's how I would feel if I were black.
[00:22:30] Ally: Oh yeah.
[00:22:30] Mike: Yeah, for sure. I mean, i ah like when there's a white collar scandal and it's not a white guy, I feel good about that. I was happy i was happy that Theranos was a woman long last.
[00:22:35] Ally: no yeah
[00:22:38] Ally: right
[00:22:41] Mike: Okay. So you were not attracted to this man, even though he was ah probably physically attractive and flirting with you.
[00:22:47] Ally: ah
[00:22:48] Mike: And it was just because of his ethnicity.
[00:22:50] Ally: yeah
[00:22:52] Mike: Wow. And you don't have any, that doesn't bother you at all. You would, tell would you tell this story in your friend group or in polite company? Would you say, hey, by the way, I i rejected a black man because he was black?
[00:23:02] Ally: No, probably not.
[00:23:04] Mike: No.
[00:23:04] Ally: Well, first of all, I have this sort of inherent, I don't know, not like shame or something, but like, I wouldn't tell a story where essentially the point of the story is like, I think someone was flirting with me because that seems like it's bragging, right?
[00:23:05] Mike: i
[00:23:15] Mike: I,
[00:23:18] Ally: Like I'll tell you because, I don't know, I don't know.
[00:23:20] Mike: because I don't matter. I got it. But I want to tell the listeners that Ali and I were comparing our 23andMe profiles before the show.
[00:23:23] Ally: It but like, I wouldn't, yeah, I...
[00:23:31] Mike: Mine is ah pure Northwestern European and Ali though is 50% Swedish. So she does have that going for her. So I don't know. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be flirting with you.
[00:23:41] Ally: Thank you.
[00:23:42] Mike: um Okay, I was looking up, I was asking an AI the today, earlier today, because i was i was this came into my head and I was curious if... Um, the advertising revenue, uh, to say for the Olympics declines when the, for the, for women's Olympic events declines, when the woman, the when the women who are doing well are unattractive.
[00:23:58] Ally: um
[00:24:06] Ally: Oh.
[00:24:06] Mike: And it would not answer the question because the person I used was Simone Biles who I don't like forget about her race.
[00:24:11] Ally: Oh.
[00:24:12] Mike: I just don't think she's very attractive. It's a lot of the female, uh, gymnasts are very attractive. Like, uh,
[00:24:17] Ally: Yeah.
[00:24:18] Mike: i mean um yeah if i If I did a search, I'm sure I could find some very attractive African-American athletes. That's not the point of female athletes. That's not the point. Anyway, would not the AI would not talk to me about it.
[00:24:29] Mike: and Then I kind of narrowed it down, narrowed it down, and found out that the reason it wouldn't talk to me about it was her ethnicity. It wasn't that I was connecting attractiveness to sports.
[00:24:35] Ally: Yeah.
[00:24:38] Ally: Yeah, is advertising revenue that finely grained where you could say like, because Simone Biles is one of five people who are in the finals, it's going to be lower, like, I would agree with you if you were saying like, I'm sure advertising for like, women's shot put or something is lower than advertising for like women's 500 meters, because like, the shot put girls are not as
[00:24:49] Mike: Potentially not.
[00:24:56] Mike: How do you speak for yourself, man? Those shoplet girls probably can, the like in the reverse cowgirl position, they're probably fucking amazing.
[00:25:06] Ally: Oh, they could destroy you, yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:08] Mike: Right. and And they probably are all very flexible, so they're able to and inspect their vaginas before sex, unlike some people.
[00:25:14] Ally: Yeah.
[00:25:16] Mike: um Yeah, no, I don't know if that's that finely grained, but I wondered actually there is some data on this as regards tennis with Serena Williams being pretty unattractive.
[00:25:22] Ally: so
[00:25:25] Ally: Yeah.
[00:25:26] Mike: And and by the way, the the AI would not talk about that either was upset about answering that question.
[00:25:32] Ally: yeah
[00:25:33] Mike: But I think very it's an individual sport so you can get information. and There's also um endorsements that would rise or fall depending on how compelling people are.
[00:25:39] Ally: Yeah.
[00:25:41] Mike: Does that bother you that women would be so valued that way instead of on their accomplishments?
[00:25:47] Ally: I mean, it bothers me if we're kind of arguing from first principles. It doesn't bother me on a day-to-day basis. I kind of accept that the world is flawed.
[00:25:57] Mike: What about if, ah okay, so for example, you you have ah an academic background. If ah you were up for a professor role at a college against five other women, and it was made very clear to you that one of the other ones got selected in a major element was her attractiveness, would that be a problem?
[00:26:14] Ally: Yeah. um
[00:26:16] Mike: But I mean, she is nicer to look at. You can understand why they did it.
[00:26:20] Ally: Oh, yeah, but I mean, like, we have labor laws and stuff like that.
[00:26:23] Mike: ah Okay. Okay. So you would go to the EEOC and that's fair. That's fair.
[00:26:27] Ally: Yeah, if we're looking at it as a job, if it's like, you know, the five of us are flirting with the same guy, and he picks the one who's most attractive, like, no, I get that, like, that I understand that.
[00:26:28] Mike: Yeah. You would want it to be blind.
[00:26:39] Mike: Okay. But you would would what about if one person got selected for their ethnicity or some sort of protected class thing where they are allowed to be picked for? You also have a problem with that or?
[00:26:48] Ally: um Yeah, if it was purely based on that factor, that's how they get around it, right? It never is purely based on one factor. They're like, oh, we consider this applicant holistically.
[00:26:58] Mike: Right.
[00:26:59] Ally: And like, so happens.
[00:27:00] Mike: Right. Right.
[00:27:02] Ally: I have been, I probably shouldn't say, I have been on hiring committees where they were explicitly like, we want to hire a woman for this position. And like, I was on the committee, right? And like, so um men essentially are saying this to me.
[00:27:13] Ally: And I was always like, I don't feel that way.
[00:27:17] Mike: Yeah.
[00:27:17] Ally: I want to hire whoever is the best person for that role. but um But yeah, there's there's that person.
[00:27:20] Mike: I, I, go ahead.
[00:27:24] Ally: Oh, no, just like that that kind of attitude of we want to hire a blank kind of person for this role. And like we're going to you know heavily put our thumb on the scale for that kind of candidate. like I can say that happens because I've been on committees where that happened.
[00:27:35] Mike: sure Yeah, I have a friend who's a professor at UC Berkeley in a technical discipline.
[00:27:39] Ally: the
[00:27:39] Mike: And he said that 30 years ago, he was on hiring committees where they explicitly would not hire someone because of being of Indian ancestry from India.
[00:27:48] Ally: and what
[00:27:50] Mike: But now it's the exact opposite. And so it's like, it's like there was some middle ground reached, you you know, maybe 15 years ago when they like just everybody was the same and then they've it's flopped to the other side.
[00:27:55] Ally: ah
[00:27:59] Ally: That's interesting.
[00:28:00] Mike: So yeah.
[00:28:00] Ally: like In academia, I would not say that Indians are underrepresented, but like they feel like they are.
[00:28:06] Mike: No, no, this was this was just flat out racism 30 years ago. It was just like the people just didn't didn't like this guy because he was from India.
[00:28:09] Ally: yeah
[00:28:11] Mike: So it was just unacceptable raises them. Now you have it going the other direction, which one could argue is unacceptable as well, where people would, oh oh, no, no, sorry, not exactly the opposite, right.
[00:28:18] Ally: but not for Indians.
[00:28:20] Mike: It wouldn't be exactly the opposite. It would be like a woman or an underrepresented minority in the U.S.
[00:28:25] Ally: Yeah.
[00:28:25] Mike: like that.
[00:28:25] Ally: Yeah.
[00:28:26] Mike: So you have a date coming up with a young gentleman or or at least you've can we call it a booty call?
[00:28:32] Ally: i ah you know I don't even know. it's It's been pretty ambiguous. He was just kind of like, I can plan to be in town over the long week.
[00:28:41] Mike: ah So that's this coming weekend. and So when when this broadcasts, like you might already have ah met with him, or no, I guess, well, you may be.
[00:28:49] Ally: We usually put people out the next day, so no, I probably won't have heard of that.
[00:28:52] Mike: When was the last time you had sex with a man? If you want to say it, you don't have to.
[00:28:57] Ally: With any man? A month ago.
[00:28:59] Mike: a month. so It's been only been a month. Okay, but you there's something you're looking for. There's some kind of this guy reached out to you. You've had sex with him in the past, right? and And you knew or you felt you knew that he reached out to you and tell me if any of this is uncomfortable for you and we can move on but ah you you you you you think you know that he contacted you via text, right?
[00:29:08] Ally: Yeah. Oh, no, I just like how you're like leading into it.
[00:29:18] Ally: but
[00:29:22] Mike: He slid into your DMS. Is that what happened?
[00:29:24] Ally: You slid into my and encrypted messages on two platforms.
[00:29:24] Mike: Is that
[00:29:29] Mike: ah Do you use Telegram by the way? Okay, you don't use Telegram. though Telegram is the one where the the man, the Russian man who's the CEO, very buff man was just put in jail by the ah French authorities.
[00:29:39] Ally: Oh, I that. Yeah, you got arrested. Yeah.
[00:29:43] Mike: Look, tell I know I have never used Telegram and and not really have any interest, but I do know, for example, if you try to post anything on ah the NSFW 411 subreddit that mentions the word Telegram, you get blocked and maybe banned.
[00:29:57] Ally: Really?
[00:29:59] Mike: Yeah, and it's because Telegram is used for what they call revenge porn.
[00:29:59] Ally: Yeah.
[00:30:03] Mike: It's used for sort of unauthorized porn and child porn, just not great.
[00:30:06] Ally: ah yeah
[00:30:06] Mike: yeah And I don't really know how you stop that with an encrypted platform, you know because ultimately the data on there is encrypted, so so it's hard to police.
[00:30:14] Ally: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:30:17] Mike: Okay, so this guy slid into he on two platforms. So that told you it was it was WhatsApp and ah Signal. He's like, look, baby, what did he say?
[00:30:26] Ally: Well, they were a very innocuous message. So we hadn't talked for, I want to say like four or five years or something.
[00:30:31] Mike: Five years. When, what was, what, when, if the last time you saw this gentleman, if you take the the last 24, let's say last 10 hours you were with this gentleman, what wouldn't have note happened in those 10 hours?
[00:30:34] Ally: Awesome. Maybe four years.
[00:30:39] Ally: Yeah.
[00:30:48] Ally: um He and I and his
[00:30:49] Mike: If anything.
[00:30:54] Ally: friends and brother and sister went to trivia one night.
[00:30:57] Mike: At a bar. and Did you win?
[00:31:00] Ally: ah Yes, actually I think, so I think what you're getting at, so I think the last two times that I saw him in person actually were both us going to trivia and winning. So hopefully we do that again too, because I miss going to trivia.
[00:31:11] Mike: Okay.
[00:31:13] Ally: But no, so we hooked up um probably the last you know extended stretch of time that I spent with him ah was we had sex and
[00:31:15] Mike: Okay.
[00:31:22] Mike: and Okay.
[00:31:23] Ally: um And it was unique. And for the purposes of this pun, that's the reason why we're talking about it here is because he's very um dominant to the extent of being sort of violent in a way that I have not experienced with other men, but that I really like.
[00:31:32] Mike: ah
[00:31:38] Ally: And so even though when he reconnected, it was these kind of innocuous messages of like, Hey, we haven't talked in a while. I hope you're doing well. Or like, you know, we we We play in online trivia leagues. It was like, hey, good luck with our match in the online trivia league.
[00:31:52] Ally: I assumed because of this history that there was some also undercurrent of, you know, hey, we used to hook up and we used to kind of flirt. Like, do you want to do that?
[00:32:01] Mike: Yeah. Well, come on, hook up and flirt. You guys hardcore fucked.
[00:32:05] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:32:06] Mike: Yeah.
[00:32:07] Ally: I mean, there has been also kind of flirtatious messages around like, oh, we should bet on the outcome of our trivia match.
[00:32:07] Mike: you who Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:32:13] Ally: And like, if I win the bet, you know, you have to drink a shot glass of my cum and that kind of thing. And I was like, no, no, no, not in the last month.
[00:32:19] Mike: That's been in the last month you've had these messages.
[00:32:22] Ally: No, um back when we were still kind of in closer text contact, what I wanted to do maybe four years ago, probably four years ago,
[00:32:27] Mike: And you remember this, you remember that text. five four or five years ago and you still remember the shot. Did you drink the shot glass of cum?
[00:32:35] Ally: No, because this was just like, you know, sort of, I guess you could say flirting over text. So no, there was never even a physical shot class have come offered. We were across the country from each other. um
[00:32:47] Mike: Okay, but it wasn't text. you What percentage of women do you think would use the word flirt to refer to a text message dealing with the shot glass of cum being ingested?
[00:32:54] Ally: What word should I, what word should I use? If it's not.
[00:32:57] Mike: I was just curious, like if that's, and look, I actually have no idea. Like one of the things I'm curious about is how, how common you think this, this stuff is. Uh, yeah.
[00:33:08] Mike: I mean, is that, would that be considered? You consider it flirting.
[00:33:10] Ally: I consider it flirting, yeah.
[00:33:11] Mike: Okay. That's fair.
[00:33:12] Ally: I think sexting is a weird you know portmanteau and to me implies more like what we would have called in the past cyber sex. like
[00:33:21] Mike: Right, right. OK, so it's sort of now are you have you already masturbated thinking about this upcoming meeting?
[00:33:30] Ally: ah Sure, yes.
[00:33:33] Mike: How many times?
[00:33:36] Ally: No, at once.
[00:33:38] Mike: That wasn't good, did it? Did it did it? Did it improve? Like how much do you think it improved the orgasm quality?
[00:33:44] Ally: um it definite having yeah Having a specific like thing that I'm looking forward to definitely improves kind of the same things that he did the last time we have done.
[00:33:51] Mike: What did you imagine him doing to you?
[00:33:56] Mike: Well, okay. What, so yeah. So why don't, why don't we get into that?
[00:33:58] Ally: Yeah.
[00:33:59] Mike: So what, what, what are the, what are the highlights of what this guy did that that, and I'm specifically curious about what are highlights that you would hit while masturbating. So like, yeah, what, what were you thinking?
[00:34:07] Ally: yeah
[00:34:08] Mike: Like, what were you imagining? Were those scenes that you had in your mind when you were reaching climax?
[00:34:13] Ally: Yeah, I mean, one of the best things for me was um when I was giving him a blow job, he would like interrupt it and pull his dick out to alternately like slap me really hard or like spit on no with his hand um or spit on my face or I think he would also like rub his dick on my face.
[00:34:23] Mike: with his dick or he would.
[00:34:31] Ally: Maybe I don't remember exactly. um He would also like, you know, push me down on the bed and like spank me and um he did tie me up at one point and then
[00:34:39] Mike: Wait, hang on, hang on. These couldn't have all happened during the blowjob because obviously tying you up.
[00:34:47] Ally: No, no, no.
[00:34:48] Mike: Right.
[00:34:48] Ally: Just the the slapping and the spitting. I think like the dick on face thing was during the blow down.
[00:34:52] Mike: So he would, what, where, where were you? How were your bodies in relation to each other?
[00:34:57] Ally: Oh, I was kneeling in front of him.
[00:34:59] Mike: You're kneeling in front of him. He's fucking your mouth. Right.
[00:35:03] Ally: Sure. I mean, there's so there's another thing that he did that I would consider more fucking my mouth, which was like having me lie down on my back on the bed.
[00:35:04] Mike: Okay. More. Okay.
[00:35:10] Ally: He's standing as though my head is like hanging off the side of the bed.
[00:35:12] Mike: Hmm.
[00:35:14] Ally: And so he's standing so that he can like just kind of fuck my throat directly, which is cool because it kind of like cuts off your airflow in that position because like your head is back and so, you know.
[00:35:22] Mike: Isn't that frightening?
[00:35:24] Ally: um
[00:35:28] Ally: in a good way. So that's, I think that's like the crux of, you know, when when you said you wanted to talk about this, I think it's kind of three things. And one of those things is trust, where if you trust someone, you know, to hit you or cause you pain, or like cut off your airflow or something like he would choke me.
[00:35:44] Ally: I just remember that was very good. Um, if you trust someone to do that, that in and of itself is kind of erotic, because like, you're, I don't know, I guess, yeah, I find like, trust to be sort of as
[00:35:57] Mike: He never broke the trust also, right?
[00:35:58] Ally: the Right, no.
[00:36:00] Mike: Like he, like you, he trying to think, like if you were in that position you described on on the bed with your, on your back, he would actually withdraw his penis so you could breathe or cough or something.
[00:36:08] Ally: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:36:12] Mike: Okay. So there, so there was, true that so that's actually pretty important. So like, you're not, you know, it's a game. It never, it never goes beyond that.
[00:36:19] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:36:20] Mike: Okay. Okay.
[00:36:21] Ally: Yeah, like I never blacked out or anything. Like even, you know, he but and so you would always like you know stop at the right time.
[00:36:23] Mike: So that was thing one, trust.
[00:36:27] Ally: um
[00:36:28] Mike: Okay.
[00:36:28] Ally: Yeah, but so trust, like the second thing is control, where like, in, you know, in almost all aspects of my life, I really like being in control, sometimes to an extreme like to my detriment, where you know, this causes problems in relationships.
[00:36:44] Ally: But like when it comes, but when it comes to, so I don't want to be in control.
[00:36:44] Mike: so like I was just.
[00:36:48] Ally: So like, there's that kind of flip, I guess, where it's like, I spend all of my, you know, time kind of like being in control, I like you know, in a sexual situation to have that reversed.
[00:36:59] Mike: now yeah i mean so so and This makes sense to me. so You are a little bit like the... And you you you make a lot of money, you do well for yourself. uh, and you control your environment in that way.
[00:37:10] Mike: Um, you are like the business executive who wants to go to a dominator. This would be simply be a man who then wants to, so you're a little like that, except you have the benefit. So this is a benefit of being a woman in that like you, it's easier.
[00:37:23] Mike: You don't have to do something a little anti counter social or whatever, like going to a dominatrix iy with a man. You, you get to be a little less in control and you enjoy that.
[00:37:33] Ally: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:37:34] Mike: Okay.
[00:37:34] Ally: And it, you know, it helps that it societally or whatever works in my favor that I think most men tend toward being more in control and most women tend toward being more submissive.
[00:37:45] Ally: So like, it's not, you know,
[00:37:46] Mike: in that situation, what and you said that it's it's problematic in relationships. Does this just mean like you like to order around your your boyfriend in a relationship?
[00:37:54] Ally: I guess so. Yeah. Or like, you know, I like to, um,
[00:37:59] Ally: Yeah, to to plan things out and like to kind of know how things are going to go and to be included in decisions. And um I have a hard time, you know, there's this phrase of like, oh, are you, you know, like super chill, down for whatever.
[00:38:06] Mike: Ugh.
[00:38:10] Ally: Like, I am not super chill. I am not down for whatever. Like, outside of, you know, sex.
[00:38:15] Mike: Will?
[00:38:16] Ally: Yeah. It's like, I want to, you know, I want want to know what's happening.
[00:38:18] Mike: Huh.
[00:38:19] Ally: And like, if if there's not a plan, and I want to make a plan. And like, yeah.
[00:38:22] Mike: Okay. Do you, uh, um, do you, do you, I mean, do you have your own bank accounts and stuff when you're in a relationship or do you let the guy manage all that?
[00:38:28] Ally: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:30] Mike: You you do.
[00:38:30] Ally: No, no, no. Yeah.
[00:38:31] Mike: I'm just, I'm just kidding. Okay. So what's the third thing? So trust, uh, like sort of risk, I think a trust.
[00:38:36] Ally: oh Yeah, so trust control.
[00:38:37] Mike: Yeah.
[00:38:40] Ally: And then I guess the third thing is kind of like, um it's a combination, I guess, of like things that are taboo or that you can't like do, you know, in, in public as an indicator of strength of desire.
[00:38:41] Mike: Control, right.
[00:38:58] Ally: And maybe these are two different things, but I liked having you know three as an ex-consult and I want to have three buckets. But so like oh if somebody is kind of forceful with you and violent, to me, that speaks to the kind of strength of their desire for you.
[00:39:03] Mike: Yeah.
[00:39:12] Ally: right like If you're really hungry, you're going to you know just like grab something that you want.
[00:39:14] Mike: Oh, he's out of right.
[00:39:17] Ally: um And then the idea is that like in public, in polite society, whatever, like you can't behave that way. and so being seeing that someone is willing to behave that way with you implies like that it's special and that they're kind of letting their guard down around you and behaving more authentically because they behave in a certain way around you that they don't behave around just anyone.
[00:39:43] Mike: So this is this is a little bit like the Beauty and the Beast fantasy that women have, where you want him to sort of... Well, no, that Beauty and the Beast is he's he's you know kind of untameable and then you tame him, but then you get into the bedroom, I guess, and and he's untameable again, but just with you.
[00:40:00] Ally: Yeah. So I guess like the Beauty and the Beast thing, and I don't know if this is a perfect analogy or example, but what's interesting to me about Beauty and the Beast is that you have Gaston, who is aggressive toward everyone.
[00:40:11] Ally: And that's not attractive, right?
[00:40:11] Mike: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:13] Ally: Because like Gaston wants to fuck all the wenches and he just behaves in the same way toward all of them.
[00:40:18] Mike: Yes.
[00:40:18] Ally: But then you have the beast who is like only non-aggressive sort of toward Belle. So that's more attractive because like he's showing a different side of himself and it's a side that he will only show around her.
[00:40:35] Mike: Yes, but then when they actually are fucking with.
[00:40:36] Ally: but matter yeah I don't know what happens when they actually fuck. like Does he become a beast again?
[00:40:40] Mike: Well.
[00:40:41] Ally: I don't know.
[00:40:42] Mike: You would hope he does, right? and So what's, what is, what is of these scenes that you've, okay.
[00:40:44] Ally: Yeah.
[00:40:48] Mike: I have a couple of questions actually first. So you would, so he would take his cock out and slap you. Right.
[00:40:54] Ally: um
[00:40:55] Mike: Right. Just apropos nothing and then put it back in.
[00:40:58] Ally: yeah
[00:40:59] Mike: Okay. And the first time he did this, did was there any conversation about it or it just happened and you're like, Oh, like, cause I have, have you had another, any other guys do this to you or just this one guy?
[00:41:09] Ally: No, just this one.
[00:41:11] Mike: Oh, that's why you're so excited.
[00:41:11] Ally: and i
[00:41:13] Mike: Okay. So this is, this is really the only guy who's really dominated you like this.
[00:41:17] Ally: Yeah, I have asked other guys to try to do similar things. And they're you can tell when they're not into it. You can tell when it doesn't come naturally to them. you know They're too timid. It doesn't occur to them to do it unless you ask.
[00:41:30] Ally: They back off too quickly. They don't have kind of like their own ideas of ways to take things farther. So this is the only thing.
[00:41:35] Mike: And that's just disappointing. Makes you feel sad or something.
[00:41:37] Ally: Yeah.
[00:41:40] Ally: Yeah, it's a little disappointing. Yeah, as far as I recall, this is the only guy I've been with who I felt like this was really truly an inherent part of his own sexuality that matched well with my own.
[00:41:51] Ally: um And I'm trying to remember if there was a conversation about it, and I want to say there wasn't, but like there must have because it would seem
[00:41:52] Mike: Okay.
[00:42:00] Ally: Maybe, no, you know what, I think what happened was like we were kissing and he tried like just a little tiny slap or whatever. And I like reacted positively to it. And then he was like, oh, you like that? And I was like, yeah. And then, you know, things escalated.
[00:42:11] Mike: I see how, what is the, I'm trying to, I don't have like a slap-o-meter, but how, like, I mean, I guess like on a scale of like zero, which would just be a tap to like 10, which would be like Apollo Creed punching Rocky so hard he falls on the ground. Like how hard is he hitting you?
[00:42:32] Ally: um I mean, hard enough to like you know turn my head. and like I remember one time like I felt like my jaw, like my lower jaw like went numb for, or like went like kind of like tingly for a little bit.
[00:42:42] Mike: Wow.
[00:42:43] Ally: And I really liked that. So I mean, not hard enough that it didn't leave a bruise afterward or anything.
[00:42:45] Mike: Why did you like that?
[00:42:48] Ally: So I think that's...
[00:42:50] Mike: But why, why, why did you like being actually injured or like a kind of on the borderline of actually being injured?
[00:42:52] Ally: Yeah.
[00:42:55] Mike: it so It sounds like maybe a three on that scale by the way. It's not that hard.
[00:42:59] Ally: yeah um It's unexpected. it So as you can tell, I'm somebody who over-intellectualizes things. And I think sometimes have to be ah sort of forced back into like you know interpreting things more physically or like being in my body or something. And so like that kind of like shock of like forcefully somebody drawing attention to your physical body, I think that's helpful for me.
[00:43:29] Ally: um
[00:43:30] Mike: and But not in ordinary life. Like, for example, you wouldn't be in a business meeting and just be like, Hey, can somebody give me a, can somebody just slap me in the face?
[00:43:37] Ally: No.
[00:43:38] Mike: Do you think it would be helpful if that was societally possible? I mean, or would it always be strange?
[00:43:44] Ally: yeah, I think it's strange. I think it would be strange because for me it's too, that would be too like tied to sexuality. ah
[00:43:51] Mike: Okay. Okay. He put you in your place.
[00:43:57] Ally: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, some of it is like the the unexpectedness, the, reflection of, yeah, a forcefulness of desire.
[00:44:09] Ally: um
[00:44:11] Ally: And then some of it, it's so like, I, you know, I enjoy kind of being mean, I guess, or like being angry toward other people in a way that I can't express in regular life. You know, that's something that I feel like I always have to tamp down is my like desire to be a bully or like to be mean to people.
[00:44:36] Ally: And like because I'm a woman and I'm not physically imposing in any way, like i you know there's just like no way that I could ever be sort of like physically aggressive towards someone. So the only way that I get to be aggressive is verbally.
[00:44:48] Ally: And I think that's fairly extreme, I guess.
[00:44:48] Mike: You could get a gun or a knife or ah like a hatchet, but no, okay.
[00:44:56] Ally: I don't know.
[00:44:56] Mike: Yeah.
[00:44:57] Ally: um But anyway, so like I feel like I always have to like repress this sort of inherent desire of like, oh, I know it would be pleasurable like to be mean to someone, right? But I don't. And so i I imagine that guys feel that way about physical aggression too.
[00:45:10] Ally: Maybe I'm wrong. I imagine maybe some guys feel that way.
[00:45:11] Mike: Wait, what do you mean be more clear about what what you imagine for guys?
[00:45:12] Ally: And so knowing that you take some pleasure in being physically aggressive that you have to kind of repress because, you know, we live in a society and whatever.
[00:45:28] Ally: And that, like, if somebody upsets you, you can't just go and punch them even if you know that would feel good and you want to. In the same way, like, when somebody upsets me, I know I can't just, like, yell at them and berate them even if I know that would feel good and I want to, right?
[00:45:35] Mike: Hm.
[00:45:39] Ally: I have to, like, be nice and polite. And so, like, I think in this sense, like, knowing that he maybe feels this way and then realizes that like he can kind of let that out and and take that pleasure with me.
[00:45:52] Ally: I like, in the same way that I think I would enjoy you know having sex with someone where I'm kind of like allowed to say mean things to them or be like verbally abusive, like I think I would kind of enjoy that because it's something that I have to repress all the time.
[00:46:06] Ally: And so being able to like no not repress that would be nice.
[00:46:07] Mike: What, okay, so let's say you're, i I'm curious about this, this thread here. So let's say you're, I mean, ph you know, you're, I don't know what, you couldn't be bent over in the doggy style position if you're going to berate this person.
[00:46:21] Mike: So let's say you're on top of them, maybe.
[00:46:23] Ally: Oh, I could. I mean, like it's just talking, so I could like say whatever from whatever position.
[00:46:28] Mike: Okay. But what, what, okay, fine. But what would, what, like, can you give me an example of what you would say or like what kind of thing you would say?
[00:46:30] Ally: Yeah,
[00:46:35] Mike: Like, would you make fun of his small penis or something?
[00:46:39] Ally: yeah maybe.
[00:46:40] Mike: Or, well, there's there's obviously something you want to be able to say that you can't or you've, okay.
[00:46:44] Ally: It would be context dependent, but it's just kind of like removing that filter of letting yourself, you know, call someone on an asshole or say like you know oh is that the hardest you can do or like I don't know like just like be kind of mean to someone you know do you ever feel that way do you ever feel like you enjoy being a bully and you have to kind of like repress it right right yeah yeah I mean it's like I know it's a bad trait and I will say like I'm very nice to people in person um so I don't know it's just just like an inherent
[00:46:58] Mike: Oh, that's interesting. i don't I know because I don't repress it, I just do it anyway. um
[00:47:18] Mike: So you would make fun of a guy's skills. So is this part of the sex play you have with this guy that he like slaps you and you say, is that all you got?
[00:47:26] Ally: No, so we haven't done that at all. I'm just explaining that that might be part of, yeah, I mean, maybe he'd be into that.
[00:47:31] Mike: Maybe you should.
[00:47:35] Ally: No, I just think, I think that's part of why I like the physical violence is because I imagine it's like a um a reciprocal situation for him where like, this is the only scenario where he can kind of like act out these pleasurable impulses to hit someone, right?
[00:47:50] Ally: Like I know that in his real life, he doesn't go around hitting people. Like he doesn't get into fights. hes
[00:47:55] Mike: He's not a boxer or a martial artist.
[00:47:56] Ally: No, he's an academic. I mean, like, yeah.
[00:47:59] Mike: Okay. But he is a, I mean, you said, show me a picture of him and he is a pretty well-built man. I mean, so he probably, yeah.
[00:48:04] Ally: Yeah, he works out and yeah, but.
[00:48:08] Mike: Okay. Did he, did he use, I think you mentioned to me that he, it's not, all the slaps were not always with an open hand. There was some closed fist also.
[00:48:18] Ally: I think so.
[00:48:19] Mike: Hmm.
[00:48:20] Ally: I don't remember.
[00:48:20] Mike: Hmm. But never a black eye.
[00:48:23] Ally: No, no.
[00:48:24] Mike: No, there was never any marks. Uh, so is this, is this, is the blowing him scenario, the thing that you focused on while masturbating?
[00:48:33] Ally: Yeah, um because we didn't have like PIV sex.
[00:48:35] Mike: Okay.
[00:48:40] Ally: And i don't know I don't know what his feelings about that are.
[00:48:40] Mike: my
[00:48:44] Ally: He kind of, he didn't want to, um and I think you and I disagreed over, he said that he has kind of like a phobia of that, like of penetrating the vagina.
[00:48:47] Mike: Really? Oh, right.
[00:48:55] Ally: And I don't know if ah if his opinion on that has changed in the past four years. or
[00:48:59] Mike: So, okay. So you have this desire to verbally berate someone and you have a man tell you that he has a phobia of penetrating vaginas with his penis and you didn't like immediately want to jump all over that to make fun of him.
[00:49:10] Ally: I did, but I didn't actually do it. So yeah, maybe, maybe if we meet up again, I will feel a little.
[00:49:13] Mike: Okay.
[00:49:16] Mike: Though I'd be worried though, because he might, he might, well it would destroy it.
[00:49:17] Ally: if
[00:49:20] Mike: I think it would probably destroy your feelings about this man. If like you did that and then he like went off in the corner and started crying.
[00:49:26] Ally: Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. That's the other risk is like, yeah, if I, if I were rude to someone and then it obviously hurt his feelings, like that would ruin it. It has to be something where he just like completely, you know,
[00:49:37] Ally: takes it and and uses that to be like more more mean to me or like to be more physically aggressive toward me.
[00:49:37] Mike: Have you?
[00:49:42] Ally: like I want it to build. I don't want to like yeah i don't want him to cry.
[00:49:44] Mike: Okay. I wanted, I wanted to understand the spitting aspect more too.
[00:49:46] Ally: like
[00:49:49] Mike: So he, did he ever spit in your mouth?
[00:49:49] Ally: Yeah. No.
[00:49:53] Mike: Would you like that?
[00:49:54] Ally: I don't think so. I have a hard time even imagining that. like It seems kind of...
[00:49:59] Mike: It's in porn.
[00:50:00] Ally: I'm sure it's important.
[00:50:00] Mike: Of course everything's in porn, but look, it's like a fairly common porn trope.
[00:50:03] Ally: they see Have you ever done that in real life? So I just have some questions about the logistics.
[00:50:07] Mike: I have not. I don't think the logistics would be that complicated. Imagine your well they're like ah a thing you see in movies or something about little kids is like they'll ah two boys will be wrestling and one of them sort of like pins the other and then he says he's pretending like he's going to spit in their mouth. right You've never seen this in like Little House on the Prairie or something or whatever. like This is like a thing.
[00:50:31] Mike: Uh, and so if you're having PIV sex, like it would be pretty easy to do it.
[00:50:31] Ally: but
[00:50:35] Mike: Um, during a blow, you'd obviously have to remove the penis to do it, but this guy did spit on you. Where did he spit?
[00:50:41] Ally: Oh, on my cheek.
[00:50:42] Mike: Okay. Well, there he would just move. So logistically, he would just spit like a few centimeters to the side.
[00:50:47] Ally: Yeah, I guess so.
[00:50:48] Mike: mountain And then you're supposed to hold your mouth open and be like, right.
[00:50:49] Ally: Yeah. Got it. Okay, that.
[00:50:53] Mike: And then if you don't properly hits you again.
[00:50:57] Ally: Yeah, I don't think I would like that as much. I think I like the spit on the on the skin, not inside the mouth.
[00:51:05] Mike: And that's because spitting in your mouth is gross.
[00:51:08] Ally: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's still kind of like a texture thing.
[00:51:13] Mike: Okay.
[00:51:13] Ally: It's like thick and it cools quickly maybe, like, I don't know.
[00:51:19] Mike: Right. But on your cheek, I mean, you might be able to like sort of smell the saliva then or something that might be kind of gross. you Did you wipe it off? You probably don't remember that level of detail. Maybe he wiped it in with his penis.
[00:51:31] Ally: Maybe. I think probably I wiped it off.
[00:51:32] Mike: I don't know.
[00:51:33] Ally: We may have been in the shower.
[00:51:38] Ally: I'm sad that I don't remember more details than this, because it was obviously a formative experience.
[00:51:41] Mike: Okay.
[00:51:44] Ally: um But yeah, I think, yeah, I think I probably wiped it off.
[00:51:48] Mike: And when he when he gave you the spanking, did he like put you over his knee like ah ah a bad little girl or?
[00:51:53] Ally: No, for that part, we were on the bed. And so I was just like, um face down on the bed.
[00:52:00] Mike: And most guys you're with are unwilling to give you the spanking you want or deserve.
[00:52:01] Ally: hi
[00:52:05] Ally: Yeah, well, I mean, there was There was one guy who did a pretty good job. But my so yeah um most guys don't hit hard enough and they'll do it like once or twice and then stop.
[00:52:10] Mike: He gave you a good, okay. He gave you a good paddling.
[00:52:25] Mike: Okay. and And you don't, you express the desire. I mean, I assume you wiggle your butt or something to express the desire that he does it more, or you like make some sound or something. So it's clear that.
[00:52:35] Ally: Yeah.
[00:52:36] Mike: But you, okay, what if a guy got out? Like, you have you ever seen those fraternity paddles that people use?
[00:52:39] Ally: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:52:40] Mike: Would you be into that or would that be concerning?
[00:52:43] Ally: No, that would be great.
[00:52:44] Mike: I think those things hurt really bad.
[00:52:44] Ally: I never met a guy who had one of those in his bedroom, but I know that.
[00:52:47] Mike: Well, it could just be like, it could just be a ping pong paddle, for example, or a belt.
[00:52:52] Ally: Belt would be fine. Ping pong paddle is like you don't want it to be faintly ridiculous. You know, like you don't want somebody to spank you with like a a spatula or something weird.
[00:53:05] Ally: You want it to be like an implement that seems capable of causing some harm. I feel like a ping pong paddle is like a toy.
[00:53:11] Mike: Okay, okay. So the guy, let's say he has one of these paddles, it's going to hurt pretty badly. Why is that compelling? like What's the appreciation there?
[00:53:22] Mike: You're like, I'm about to have something that hurts pretty bad happen to me. And you're excited.
[00:53:26] Ally: you yeah ah Yeah, so I mean, it's it's combined with overall having sex. So it's like, you know, interstitial pain with pleasure, I think heightens both sensations because you're kind of going back and forth, you know,
[00:53:41] Mike: What if it hurts so badly that like you were worried about it happening again and then it was going to happen again? Like would you try to stop him or would you with that height?
[00:53:48] Ally: oh yeah, and I probably let's try to stop him. Yeah.
[00:53:52] Mike: Okay. Okay. So you actually want to remain in control.
[00:53:56] Ally: yeah
[00:53:58] Mike: Hmm.
[00:54:00] Ally: Or like, yeah, I want to have the option of of stopping it. um But right, the the part where it's out of control is like, I don't know necessarily, you know, what he's going to do next, or like, relatively, you know, how much it's going to hurt, or like, when he's going to stop doing it.
[00:54:04] Mike: Okay.
[00:54:17] Ally: um So in like a micro sense, it's out of control, but in the macro sense, it's like, yeah, I know if it, if it really starts to bother me, I could stop.
[00:54:23] Mike: OK, you you you said you think this is a pretty common fantasy or desire for women. Is that because you've talked? You've told me this before the show. Did did you if you talk to women about this or just a lot of literatica reading or.
[00:54:34] Ally: i do it Well, so I mean like Fifty Shades of Grey was extremely popular. There's a lot of these like BDSM light kinds of erotic fiction or so whatever for women.
[00:54:45] Mike: Oh.
[00:54:46] Ally: um But I would say in college and in grad school, I would talk to my female friends about this because it somehow seems weirder to talk to your friends about it if your friend is married because then it's like, oh, like I know your husband and like he's a friend of mine. And now it seems somewhat impolite to talk about like, you know, how do you guys have sex? But when you're younger and having maybe like less serious relationships, it feels easier to talk about sex because it's not as personal maybe.
[00:55:23] Mike: i thought I thought with the husband, maybe it would be like that you would try to go in and get some get some of that paddling for yourself. It's not that.
[00:55:31] Ally: ah I don't want to break up my friends marriages.
[00:55:31] Mike: Okay.
[00:55:34] Ally: I mean, do you feel that way when you're talking to your friends? Like when you're talking to your married friends, if it's someone where like you know their wife and you've been to dinner with them and stuff, it's weirder to talk about like, hey, how do you guys fuck?
[00:55:43] Mike: Definitely. But I think that ah guys generally, but let me think about this.
[00:55:44] Ally: yeah
[00:55:47] Mike: Yeah. I mean, guys generally talk about sexual experiences with someone when it's not a serious relationship. And then if it becomes more serious, they don't.
[00:55:53] Ally: Yeah.
[00:55:55] Mike: And the and it's pretty obvious why, right? Because then what they've said might is much more likely to be revealed in some way to their partner, which would then cause some sort of a fight and and be embarrassing and so forth.
[00:56:02] Ally: Yeah.
[00:56:07] Mike: And I assume women have the same concern, right?
[00:56:09] Ally: Yeah, yeah. And also, presumably, they don't want you to be thinking about like how their wife has sex when you're like hanging out with their wife or something.
[00:56:18] Mike: Right. So does this mean that when you were like the women you knew in college and grad school, we're all just getting their asses paddled all the time? Like, was this what was going on?
[00:56:24] Ally: No, no, no, I'm just saying.
[00:56:25] Mike: I just missed it.
[00:56:26] Ally: like I was more comfortable talking about it with them. and like
[00:56:29] Mike: Did you ever like bring it up?
[00:56:30] Ally: ah
[00:56:31] Mike: Wait, hang on. But this, but back then you hadn't had these experiences with this gentleman. So you, you were just fantasized.
[00:56:37] Ally: No, right, it was, yeah, it was just more of a fantasy. Yeah, so like there's a movie called Secretary that I liked very much that involves this kind of thing and, yeah,
[00:56:44] Mike: yeah I remember that movie. Yeah. Okay. Didn't he tire up a fair amount or something like that?
[00:56:50] Ally: yeah.
[00:56:50] Mike: Okay. And you wanted that to happen to you.
[00:56:50] Ally: Yeah, it was always kind interesting fine yeah um my boyfriend had kind of like a hypnosis fetish where he wanted to believe I guess that he was like hypnotizing a woman into being his like sex slave.
[00:57:05] Ally: So there was a little bit of like, yeah,
[00:57:07] Mike: So you would have to pretend to be hypnotized. That's
[00:57:10] Ally: there was a little bit of like dominance submission there. And like, I think it is just something that has been an interest of mine since from an early age. Because I remember like when I first saw Aladdin, the Disney cartoon, there's a part where Jafar has Princess Jasmine like chained up. She has these like gold manacles. And she's like chained to his staff. And he makes her like pour like a glass of wine for him or something. And like I remember finding that scene like interesting in a way that I now recognize. I like thought it was erotic. But at the time, I was like five or something. you I didn't know what eroticism was. um
[00:57:46] Ally: But like, yeah, finding that kind of thing interesting, I think that was like, it's sort of a.
[00:57:50] Mike: isn't there like Isn't there some community you could join or something? to to no No, seriously, to like have these experiences.
[00:57:54] Ally: so
[00:57:57] Mike: like to be There's this thing you really want to or you enjoy doing that you basically have to hunt and peck around for a guy that's willing to do it. And it sounds like you've found guys that basically aren't willing to do it. And that's kind of a bummer for you.
[00:58:10] Ally: Yeah, but it's not, you know, it's not a deal breaker. if a guy's not willing to do it, if he's otherwise somebody I want to be with. um
[00:58:18] Mike: It sounds like it might be. I mean, like if you were going to get married to a guy, wouldn't you be much happier if he, yeah you know, had some of these behaviors or like understood at least like, no, I think it could be a deal breaker because it's like, this it's like a part of your personality, right?
[00:58:29] Ally: I think I
[00:58:31] Mike: It's like an input. It's sort of important to you. And it would be the guy just basically either not being interested or maybe not even knowing.
[00:58:38] Ally: would still be fine with it. I don't think it's that central I will say also, like the one time that I looked up like you know who's on FetLife or whatever, which is like a fetish-specific dating app, and again, this was probably like also six years ago or something, um it's a very small population of like definite weirdos.
[00:59:03] Ally: So I feel like trying to date or trying to select a partner based on this criterion is a very low success rate active activity.
[00:59:03] Mike: no
[00:59:12] Mike: But I mean, it's notable that you have such specific memories of it. Was it one encounter with this gentleman? Like five years ago? or two encounters or something.
[00:59:22] Ally: Yeah. Yeah, one or two. Yeah.
[00:59:25] Mike: That must have been a pretty good orgasm, huh? Did you, did, you know, did you not go there?
[00:59:33] Ally: No, I did. I did. um Yeah, it was it was good. And it was the correct thing.
[00:59:35] Mike: He's afraid of your vagina. So you had to masturbate, right? and Okay.
[00:59:38] Ally: Yeah. But he wanted me to do that while he was yeah like fucking my throat or whatever.
[00:59:41] Mike: But it was, so you masturbated too.
[00:59:47] Ally: He wasn't afraid of me touching my voice.
[00:59:50] Mike: Yeah. So you masturbated to orgasm while he was face fucking you.
[00:59:56] Ally: Yeah.
[00:59:57] Mike: And that was pretty, was that like your strongest orgasm the last five years?
[01:00:02] Ally: No, I don't think so. I mean, it's hard to it's hard to compare.
[01:00:05] Mike: I think it was, I think it might've been cause you were.
[01:00:08] Ally: I think it was it was a it was an extremely enjoyable experience like you know throughout like the whole session, I think, because I was like you know aroused continuously.
[01:00:14] Mike: Okay.
[01:00:18] Ally: um I think we've talked about this before, but like I have a hard time distinguishing between like intensity of orgasms to me, the orgasm is much more like binary. It's like, you know, it kind of, you get there or you you don't get there at all.
[01:00:30] Ally: I'm like,
[01:00:30] Mike: When, when you orgasmed in this situation, since you remember it so well, did you immediately then want him to stop fucking your throat or whatever?
[01:00:36] Ally: no, no.
[01:00:36] Mike: Like, no, it was, you were good to continue, but you were not aroused anymore or like your arousal declined, but you didn't have the desire to orgasm again.
[01:00:38] Ally: Yeah.
[01:00:45] Ally: It declined a little bit. I was still around.
[01:00:50] Ally: Right.
[01:00:51] Mike: Okay. But so at least it's memorable. So yeah. Okay. You're, you're saying like you kind of look at the area under the curve of the experience and it was a pretty high area under the curve for you, like ah compared to what you've experienced since, but it's hard to find a gentleman to to meet these needs.
[01:00:58] Ally: Yeah.
[01:01:06] Ally: Yes. Because, yeah, because I'm not, you know, selecting people based on this, I'm not going out there like asking for, you know, hey, who, who around me wants to hit me.
[01:01:08] Mike: Yeah.
[01:01:19] Ally: It it has to be something that I kind of, I guess, discover. ah
[01:01:24] Mike: And you found what, uh, you found that like maybe fewer than 10% of guys, maybe significantly fewer than 10% of guys kind of have this in them.
[01:01:33] Ally: I don't know. I mean, I haven't even slept with 10 other people since this guy. But, like, um just, yeah, I mean, of the couple of people, I guess, that I've slept with since, like, they didn't seem, yeah, didn't seem interested in it, in doing that.
[01:01:39] Mike: That's interesting.
[01:01:51] Mike: Huh, huh.
[01:01:52] Ally: I don't know.
[01:01:52] Mike: And you didn't.
[01:01:53] Ally: I don't know how common this is as a proclivity.
[01:01:53] Mike: Yeah.
[01:01:56] Ally: I just think that, like, of the sort of fetishes, it's one of the more common ones, but I'm sure that there's if not a majority, you know, like a substantial proportion of guys who don't want to do this real kind of like BDSM stuff.
[01:02:11] Mike: Right, right. Well, I mean, I don't think you're going that aggressively. Like you're not, you know, being crucified or crucified upside down or broken on the wheel.
[01:02:20] Ally: Right now I'm like, yeah, there are levels of it, you know, like if you go into any adult shop or something, they have like fuzzy handcuffs or something. And like, that's kind of like, the you know, the the baby version of like, oh, you want to tie somebody up, like, you know, these like soft, cute things.
[01:02:32] Mike: Right, right.
[01:02:34] Ally: But you told me that you've had some experiences, maybe when you were in college, being dominant. And I want to tell me more about what those did for you or like, what what's the time you remember?
[01:02:41] Mike: Oh, yeah, definitely. Go ahead and ask.
[01:02:48] Mike: um Yeah, I mean, I think that that look, I think there are guys where this is like a way of life for them. So maybe this gentleman ah is although, yeah, I don't know what to say about his fear of penetrating a woman other than maybe he doesn't want to get someone pregnant. But you said that wasn't it anyway.
[01:03:04] Ally: I don't know, that could be part of the fear, but it seems like more than that.
[01:03:04] Mike: ah
[01:03:07] Mike: i think that I think that for me, ah it was much more around ah um working out um kind of psychological,
[01:03:19] Mike: ah it had to do with being with with being basically like the the typical male experience or like the 95% male experience of like basically being rejected by women throughout high school and junior high.
[01:03:32] Ally: You weren't rejected. through Okay.
[01:03:34] Mike: I mean, rejected enough, rejected enough. Like basically, like, yeah, so it's like once you get, once you, once you get like full access to a woman, you're like, oh, I'm like, it's it's a little bit of like, I would call it kind of negative, right?
[01:03:46] Mike: It's like, it's, it's like, yeah, I'm kind of angry at you.
[01:03:48] Ally: I
[01:03:49] Mike: You're a totem now for like all the women that wouldn't have sex with me.
[01:03:51] Ally: see. Okay.
[01:03:53] Mike: You know, it's a little like Beavis and Butthead who really want to score all the time. yeah I would imagine the first, as far as I can tell, because they now have old Beavis and Butthead, it appears they've still never scored.
[01:03:59] Ally: Hmm.
[01:04:03] Mike: And they're pretty old. So I'm not I don't know if they're ever going to. But I would imagine the first woman to have sex with Beavis. You know who Beavis and Butthead are, right?
[01:04:10] Ally: yeah
[01:04:11] Mike: OK, I would imagine the first woman who has sex with Beavis is going to it's going to be up. Something kind of crazy is going to happen. Right.
[01:04:18] Ally: i'm sure there's
[01:04:18] Mike: So it's a little like that. Yeah, so i mean i think so i I genuinely think it was just like, yeah, there wast like I was very motivated by that sort of power dynamic that like, look, i I'm going to now sort of abuse this.
[01:04:33] Mike: um
[01:04:33] Ally: um And did that go away as you got more ready access to sex?
[01:04:37] Mike: Yes.
[01:04:38] Ally: Oh, interesting. So what kinds of things did you do in those early encounters?
[01:04:40] Mike: Yes.
[01:04:42] Ally: like did you like Did you hit people or slap people or women?
[01:04:45] Mike: Let me think.
[01:04:48] Ally: like Oh, OK.
[01:04:49] Mike: I wouldn't, I wouldn't have done that because that seems like illegal.
[01:04:54] Mike: Uh, I think that would be, I'd be worried about doing something that could be perceived as well. Okay. A couple of things like, I'm not sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure I was like physically big enough for that to be like credible.
[01:05:08] Ally: OK.
[01:05:08] Mike: Uh, so that was a problem. And, um, yeah, I mean, I certainly wouldn't have liked to want to leave a mark or something like that. And there was a lot of like, programming about, you know, violent. Well, I mean, like, you know, if you watch TV in the 90s or something, there were I'm sure every sitcom had an episode where like a woman was being beaten and how bad that was. So there's a fair amount of programming on that. So it would be much much more ah psychologically driven. So ah like tying her up, blindfolding, like kind of trying to make her afraid that something weird would happen, stuff like that.
[01:05:45] Ally: now what do you mean Yeah, what do you mean by something weird would happen?
[01:05:46] Mike: Probably worse, stuff that you and i think I don't think would be into. You frightening. Um, whoa. Uh, I can't remember if it was like, you know, somebody else is going to come in the room or I'm going to just leave you this way.
[01:06:01] Ally: Okay.
[01:06:03] Mike: Maybe that seems like something I would have done.
[01:06:03] Ally: Uh-huh.
[01:06:06] Ally: Okay.
[01:06:06] Mike: Um, you know, I mean, just ah obviously sexual things happening. Uh, and then like fear of some sort of violence happening, right?
[01:06:16] Ally: o Yeah.
[01:06:17] Mike: I think the thing you yeah the thing you're going at here is the fact that like I one time sort of frightened her that I was going to bite her clit.
[01:06:24] Ally: Right.
[01:06:25] Mike: yeah She didn't like that. She really didn't like that. Actually, that was a step too far. um She got upset. so yeah i found
[01:06:31] Ally: Did you like, a little bit, did you like scrape your teeth along her clip?
[01:06:34] Mike: No, it no, I didn't. but the No, like this is the thing is like this, the sweet and this is, this is a look, I'm not sure what this gentleman that you had sex with is working out.
[01:06:45] Mike: Like what he would, you're saying you think he like once he, you know, it's like you said something like, oh, in situations in life, you want to be able to like beat someone up instead of having to reckon with them.
[01:06:46] Ally: um
[01:06:55] Mike: Okay. That's not what I was working out. What I was working out was, uh, um, i'm i'm I'm tired of women controlling sex.
[01:07:07] Mike: And so I want to control sex. It was definitely that.
[01:07:09] Ally: Yeah, I think it could be similar in this. and like You wanted to express this anger and you couldn't like yell at women and be like, why won't you fuck me, you cunts?
[01:07:18] Mike: I wouldn't have wanted to do that anyway. but what What I wanted to do was to if you to actually terrify her, like to make it, to make a, it was more like a haunted house.
[01:07:20] Ally: OK.
[01:07:30] Mike: Like I wanted, I wanted, I wanted, cause cause just yelling at the person, like that doesn't really do anything. It it makes you seem, what does it do? Like it doesn't actually, if it doesn't elicit a strong enough emotion. And also like, I wasn't going to be violent or whatever.
[01:07:42] Mike: It's more like, yeah, I wanted to, Well, actually I can, I can tell you something. So I, uh, cause maybe this is a tactic I still use. So I have a, I work at a company where I have a, uh, team of people that I lead, I guess.
[01:07:59] Mike: Um, and I said something that, that, that caused a couple of them to like gave them pause on like one of our meetings.
[01:07:59] Ally: and Yeah.
[01:08:08] Mike: And I realized that it might've been too close to the truth. I said something like, uh, I act crazy on purpose. ah because then it makes to you guys work harder.
[01:08:20] Mike: And I realized, I think that's actually true, because it's like, yeah, if the boss acts crazy all the time, you're just like, would it leaves it puts you off ah kilter all the time.
[01:08:22] Ally: ah
[01:08:29] Ally: yeah Yeah.
[01:08:30] Mike: And I think that was sort of it. like i won it so i I realized even then, like if I act sort of crazy, that's that that takes the most power away from her, and that's what I wanted to do.
[01:08:42] Ally: And you thought that would make her more sexually, like, permissive or subservient or something, or just that it would...
[01:08:48] Mike: No, I just wanted I was just working out like my own psychological damage from I don't think that people understand how frustrating it is. I know it's depicted and in movies and TV shows and stuff, but it's really difficult for guys from like age for from a lot of guys. And I don't know how it is now because I know like someone told me.
[01:09:08] Mike: ah they didn't a woman told me A friend told me that she didn't want to move to the Bay Area because the Bay Area is full of in-cells, so maybe that's where we're at now. But in my era, ah it was very frustrating for boys from like 14 to 20 or 18 or whatever because Yeah.
[01:09:25] Mike: I mean, there's just like, there's this thing you want to do and the girls don't want to, they, what do they, what they want to do is they want to maximally tease you as if they're going to do it and then not do it. And it's really, really, really frustrating for guys.
[01:09:34] Ally: Okay.
[01:09:37] Mike: Like I'm actually a little surprised there isn't more rape but because of that, because yeah, like I had a good head on my shoulders. Like I was well-inculturated, but like a guy who's not like, yeah, I mean like women prancing around like half naked all the time.
[01:09:49] Mike: Like you, yeah, I mean, why don't they just go, the guy just go crazy.
[01:09:54] Mike: Um, so anyway, so men experienced this, yeah boys experienced this like extreme frustration. And yeah, I was like, Oh, this is the way I can, I can, I can finally for once control the situation and like, and like, uh, put into your brain.
[01:10:09] Mike: And then it was just a question of like, what, what is the maximum, uh, order of magnitude, uh, absolute value of emotion I could put into her brain and like yelling at her or spanking her would not have done that.
[01:10:13] Ally: Yeah.
[01:10:21] Mike: See, this is, this is the thing is this is not what you want, right?
[01:10:24] Ally: Right, yeah. Yeah, I don't want somebody to try and frighten me, I guess.
[01:10:29] Mike: Right. Like you don't want to, you don't want to wake up and it's like that scene from The Silence of the Lambs where you're like in the bottom of a pit and the guy's like, look, I'm just fattening you up so I can make a shirt out of you.
[01:10:38] Ally: Right, no.
[01:10:40] Mike: Like, but that was the kind of, that's like kind of what I wanted to do.
[01:10:41] Ally: Yeah.
[01:10:43] Mike: I wanted to actually like, yeah, I wanted to, uh, work out this frustration with, you know, legally, of course.
[01:10:52] Ally: Yeah.
[01:10:54] Mike: And so, yeah.
[01:10:55] Ally: Yeah.
[01:10:57] Mike: Um,
[01:10:57] Ally: Yeah, I mean, you've raised like two interesting questions for me. One is like, I guess I'm kind of assuming what motivates this guy that I had these encounters with and like, maybe, you know, if this is something that he does, like with everyone, like all of his sexual encounters are like this, like, maybe it's motivated more by some kind of anger at women or I don't know,
[01:11:25] Ally: discomfort. I kind of doubt it but and then I'm also thinking like maybe it's somewhat humiliation based for him because of the thing about like him wanting me to like drink a cup of his semen or whatever.
[01:11:37] Mike: Is that humiliating?
[01:11:38] Ally: Is it? ah
[01:11:40] Mike: I had this girl in college, one or two girls in college do that. and and It fine was Was it about humiliation? um
[01:11:47] Ally: I don't I don't know. like Would you will you consider that humiliating that like a girl like lost a bet with you and now has to drink a large volume of your semen? like
[01:11:58] Mike: is she Am I dating her or not? If I'm not dating her, then definitely.
[01:12:03] Ally: Really? Okay.
[01:12:03] Mike: Yeah.
[01:12:03] Ally: What if you're not doing what you are like hooking up with her?
[01:12:03] Mike: Oh, definitely.
[01:12:06] Ally: like It's someone that you're...
[01:12:06] Mike: Oh, sorry. By dating, I meant hooking up. if it If it was just a woman that like I knew ah socially and she lost to bed and and I produced a cup of semen she had to drink, yeah, that'd be pretty humiliating.
[01:12:09] Ally: Oh, okay.
[01:12:17] Mike: Just like if she produced a cup of you know whatever, pee or something that I had to drink, I think that'd be...
[01:12:22] Ally: is somebody that you're like having sex Is it still like, humiliating them to make them do that? Or is it sexually gratifying in a different way?
[01:12:28] Mike: Yeah.
[01:12:32] Mike: I think that it's um it's power.
[01:12:35] Ally: Yeah.
[01:12:35] Mike: It's that. It's sexually gratifying in that you are you are basically making somebody do something that no normal person would want to do.
[01:12:43] Ally: Yeah.
[01:12:44] Mike: Yeah.
[01:12:45] Ally: Yeah, so I think that is probably what is underlying this for him. but
[01:12:51] Mike: Well, you could try going that you could, you could see if he's interested in setting up a little haunted house for you where you're like, look, I want you to tie me up in blindfold me and then terrify me sexually and see if he's like, yeah, why not?
[01:12:52] Ally: yeah
[01:12:56] Ally: Oh no, I don't want that. like
[01:13:05] Mike: It turned out this girl in college didn't want that either.
[01:13:08] Ally: Yeah.
[01:13:08] Mike: She's like, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't her favorite thing. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, this is all the path to realizing, Well, whatever. Yeah.
[01:13:19] Mike: I mean, you, you, you come to understand as a guy, the various forces that cause high school girls and so forth to behave the way they do. And you're like, Oh, you start having more compassion for it.
[01:13:29] Ally: Yeah.
[01:13:29] Mike: But when you're that age, like you, you don't, you basically as a guy, I think, yeah, you don't view the other person as being a human in the way you are.
[01:13:39] Ally: um
[01:13:39] Mike: So like, it it takes a while to figure that out. At least for men. I don't know about for women, but it takes a while for men to figure that out that the right, the right analysis of other people is that.
[01:13:48] Ally: But your desire to do these kinds of things also went away after you got to do them a couple times.
[01:13:53] Mike: It went away because I ah came to an understanding that like men and women are almost exactly the same. like
[01:14:02] Ally: I feel like long-term listeners of the pod are going to be very surprised to hear you say that.
[01:14:03] Mike: yeah they're they're
[01:14:09] Mike: Well, that's a fair point. Fair point. I mean, well, look, we focus on the ways in which men and women are are different.
[01:14:16] Ally: yeah
[01:14:16] Mike: But, uh, but like, yeah, I mean, the truth, like, look, we all have the same like bodily functions of like the, yeah, if, if he hits you with a paddle, it it feels around the same as if he hit him or you hit him with the paddle and it's like, Oh, well, what's good about that?
[01:14:28] Mike: Of course you, you apparently want that. So, okay.
[01:14:30] Ally: yeah
[01:14:31] Mike: um But I don't think you want it as hard as, see, this is the thing. If a guy tried to hurt you, you wouldn't like it. So he's having to restrain himself.
[01:14:42] Mike: ah ella I mean, I'm assuming this guy's, you said he works out and stuff, he's reasonably strong.
[01:14:43] Ally: Yeah.
[01:14:46] Mike: Like if he, just one hit and you would be like, hey, look, I don't want this anymore.
[01:14:46] Ally: Oh, yeah.
[01:14:49] Mike: And so, and so the whole thing is kind of fake, right?
[01:14:52] Ally: um Right.
[01:14:53] Mike: If he was actually angry with you and like just taking it out physically, like you would get seriously injured. Just like if you were really angry emotionally and you took it out on him with your verbal dynamite, he would be emotional.
[01:15:05] Mike: It's actually that I'll tell you on this recording, like that's the thing I'm the most curious.
[01:15:05] Ally: Right. ah
[01:15:08] Mike: I'm curious how mean you can be. It's like a little frightening.
[01:15:13] Ally: ah good okay
[01:15:13] Mike: um I suspect you have some some really I kind of want now I'm kind of curious.
[01:15:13] Ally: um
[01:15:17] Mike: Like, what do you what would you say to me?
[01:15:18] Ally: um
[01:15:19] Mike: I mean, you've listened to a lot of so maybe all the episodes of the podcast. Like, do you have some really mean shit stored up that you want to.
[01:15:26] Ally: No, I haven't thought about it.
[01:15:26] Mike: Unload.
[01:15:28] Ally: I'll put some consideration into that the next time we talk.
[01:15:31] Mike: Yeah.
[01:15:32] Ally: I'll let you know.
[01:15:33] Mike: I would like to, I would like to be dominated verbally by you. I would, I'd be curious what that's like. Maybe, maybe I'd just, I'd just hang up. Like we just have to shut the podcast up and we'll just end.
[01:15:42] Ally: Right? yeah Yeah, I think, yeah, I think you would just...
[01:15:46] Mike: Okay. Well, maybe we can, maybe we can put a pin in that. And also I'd be interested in, uh, finding out how this meetup with this guy goes. I'm really rooting for it because I mean,
[01:15:54] Ally: Thank you. Yeah, I am too. i hope I hope we don't meet up and he's like, hey, by the way, you know, like that stuff we did last time, I'm not into that anymore. Like, I'm so sorry or something.
[01:16:00] Mike: It's like I'm a, I found Jesus in my heart.
[01:16:01] Ally: Yeah.
[01:16:03] Mike: I'm not having sex again until I'm married, but I just wanted to say hi.
[01:16:04] Ally: I know, I'd be so disappointed. Yeah.
[01:16:08] Mike: Yeah. You're hoping to get your ass beat.
[01:16:11] Ally: Yeah.
[01:16:11] Mike: I got it.
[01:16:12] Ally: Well, that, I mean, the other guy I was thinking of who did um hit me like left bruises on my ass, which I liked. I don't remember if with this guy, I think I did.
[01:16:20] Mike: How could you like that? But then you, it hurts to sit down.
[01:16:23] Ally: I mean, yeah.
[01:16:24] Mike: Why is that good? Cause you remember him.
[01:16:29] Mike: It's weird.
[01:16:30] Ally: Sometimes it hurts to sit down after a regular sex.
[01:16:30] Mike: It's weird.
[01:16:33] Ally: Like if it's aggressive enough, you know? like Yeah, yeah.
[01:16:35] Mike: It hurts because of your vulva being bruised. Huh, huh, that's interesting. Yeah, we should. All right, well, we've gone a lot over time significantly, but I want to, let's hopefully we can talk, maybe we can schedule a talk next week to find out about that.
[01:16:52] Mike: and And I'd like you also to, if you don't want to say things that are hurtful to me, maybe you could come up with a bunch of hurtful things for Keith, since he's not here.
[01:16:59] Ally: Oh, yeah, once he gets by.
[01:17:00] Mike: And then we could just, we could just do ad hominem against him for like half an hour.
[01:17:02] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[01:17:05] Mike: All right. Well, it's been a long episode. we haven't I have still, you in the intro, was a little weird, so I have to figure that out. um Thank you for listening to this. This is episode 177 of Your Mileage May Vary. As always, you can send comments and feedback. I appreciate it particularly the guy who sent the feedback that he didn't want me, that he wanted me to keep posting long form videos to the curated amateur porn subreddit. So sir, good sir, I will continue.
[01:17:31] Mike: just for you ah he was like really he seemed genuinely worried he's like look dude i'm gonna lose one i'm gonna lose a nut a week because of this because i i'd express that they didn't get enough upvotes so okay i hear are you
[01:17:35] Ally: but but
[01:17:44] Mike: message received.
[01:17:46] Ally: so
[01:17:46] Mike: Anyway, people can give us feedback. You can always send me feedback on the subreddit, which seems to be one of the places people like to do it. ymmvpod at gmail dot.com. And also, we our YouTube channel, ah Your Mileage May Very, keeps growing kind of rapidly.
[01:18:01] Mike: ah not Well, i will actually, I threaten people because they didn't give us some subscribers, and we got a few more subscribers this week. And the list The hours listen keep going up significantly, so YouTube seems to be a better platform for us, or a good platform, it's not better. um Okay, so we'll see you next week on Your Mileage May Very.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 177: Ally's Naughty Desires, Woke Mate Selection, Cum Shot Glasses, Psychological Dominance

Episode Transcript