Your Mileage May Vary: Riding The Abortion Train, Politics, Anal Explosions, Insensitive Doctors

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00:01] Keith: Hello and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I am your very jet lagged host, Keith. My co-host is Mike. Hi, Mike.
[00:00:15] Mike: Hey Keith, look, you're back. i ah people thought you were that We probably actually have a material number of listeners who've never heard your voice before actually because we've we've had some success on YouTube lately.
[00:00:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:00:25] Mike: so
[00:00:25] Keith: Yeah. ah The guy, we're not going to post this for about a week from now, but the guy at immigration asked me where I'd been on this trip and I kind of paused and laughed and I think he didn't like that. ah But being a white man, I have some privilege. So ah He gave me the benefit of the doubt, but he did make me list all 21 countries that I went to over the last four and a half months.
[00:00:51] Mike: What for?
[00:00:51] Keith: And I think he wanted to hear if I said, I bet there's countries that if people have been to, they immediately flag and then they pull you back into the back area ah and ask you more questions.
[00:01:05] Keith: I have been to that back area one other time, but it's because there was a mistake in my passport, which is, I went on a trip that started in Morocco and then I took the ferry from Morocco to Spain.
[00:01:20] Keith: And for some reason I didn't get stamped into the EU or when I got stamped into the EU, ah they forgot to put the date stamp on it.
[00:01:21] Mike: Okay.
[00:01:29] Keith: And so they weren't sure if I had been in Africa for the duration of my long trip. ah And so they were like, oh, did you go to Mauritania? Did you go to Mali?
[00:01:39] Keith: Did you go to, like there's, they get a little uneasy with visiting North Africa.
[00:01:46] Mike: Yeah, the ah it's amazing that this stuff is still ah mediated by pieces of paper and stamps.
[00:01:52] Keith: Yeah.
[00:01:52] Mike: you It's just, I guess, because it's multiple countries and they can't get it together to have a single system. And maybe that's for the best um because there'd be even more surveillance then.
[00:02:00] Keith: Yeah.
[00:02:03] Mike: So you did or did not get pulled in the back room this time. You said you had one other time.
[00:02:05] Keith: I did not, and but he made me list all 21.
[00:02:07] Mike: Okay.
[00:02:09] Keith: I mean, that's just not a reasonable request. I happened to remember. but Otherwise, I guess we would have had to go through my passport pages, but I have the extended passport, which I think is something like 50 pages, and it's nearly full.
[00:02:24] Keith: And the people who stamp you in and out of countries are not careful to put them in order. So to like reconstitute the timeline based on the passport stamps would be, well, it would be a good good task for chat GPT, actually.
[00:02:30] Mike: Right.
[00:02:37] Keith: You could scan them all and say, can you figure this out? but There will be places where it's not possible because one stamp overlaps with another or they've changed the date to the wrong year or there there would be, it it wouldn't be consistent data. There would definitely be some errors in it.
[00:02:52] Mike: All right. And what was the best in the shittiest countries you went to?
[00:02:56] Keith: ah I am reluctant.
[00:02:59] Mike: Don't want to say.
[00:03:00] Keith: Yeah.
[00:03:01] Mike: Wow. How about the best, the best?
[00:03:04] Keith: ah The United States.
[00:03:07] Mike: Wow.
[00:03:08] Keith: People ask me all the time like what my favorite country is, and I think it's an annoying question. For starters, like favorite on what axis? right you know most Most beautiful, most interesting experience, best food, ah most attractive women.
[00:03:16] Mike: Sure.
[00:03:23] Keith: you know like what What do you want me to measure it on? and It's so subjective anyway. and Yeah. And if I were to try to like come up with the best country, it would just obviously be the United States.
[00:03:36] Keith: So I and find the question. and i I often answer the United States and then people roll their eyes and think I'm a terrible person. But I think for most people selection criteria, the United States is going to be the best for them.
[00:03:49] Mike: That makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
[00:03:53] Keith: Yeah.
[00:03:54] Mike: Cool.
[00:03:56] Keith: Um, I have a number of, I mean, look, I have a number of bones to pick with Allie, but I think I will join you guys next week to a litigate some of those matters.
[00:04:02] Mike: Mm hmm.
[00:04:08] Mike: Yes.
[00:04:08] Keith: But you guys went through, yeah, I mean, I have like this list of things that I wanted to talk about. um let's Let's start with something that gets into female anatomy. but You guys talked about IUD strings, and I believe Allie revealed she has an IUD, right?
[00:04:27] Mike: Oh, yeah, she's very open about that. and
[00:04:29] Keith: Right, and it's the chemical one, not the copper one. and
[00:04:33] Mike: Oh, my goodness, that specific level, I don't remember, but I do. Yeah, anyway, sure. Let's let's just say that. Sure.
[00:04:39] Keith: Yeah, ah it is right.
[00:04:39] Mike: I think that's right.
[00:04:41] Keith: Or at least it was strongly implied.
[00:04:42] Mike: OK.
[00:04:43] Keith: It might've been made explicit, I can't remember. ah But that that doesn't matter too. The next point I was gonna make. she I think she said none of her partners have ever complained about the IUD strings.
[00:04:55] Mike: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that was, and we, we sort of debated that a little bit because my experience with the IUD was that it was like, if you took a, you took your cock, made it erect, and then you found like, like I have in front of me, like a little wire here that's, it's, it's, I don't know, it's thicker than a human hair, but it's a very thin wire.
[00:05:13] Mike: And imagine you just sort of poke the head of your cock with this little wire, not drawing necessarily blood, but like it, you can feel it and it's not particularly pleasant.
[00:05:17] Keith: Yes.
[00:05:22] Mike: You know, there's something bad. Maybe it's the tip of a knife, and if you thrust a little deeper, you're gonna get cut. It's not gray, it's a weird feeling.
[00:05:29] Keith: Yes. I have had this feeling with several partners and it's been strange that sometimes I would notice it and other times I don't. Maybe it depends on angle of attack.
[00:05:42] Mike: I think the cervix is at a different depth depending on the woman's cycle. And also, I mean, there could be other factors, but I mean, the cervix can be at a different relative depth for various reasons.
[00:05:50] Keith: Okay, okay.
[00:05:52] Mike: So yeah, it could be a row, a level of arousal, I'm sure is also relevant to the depth of the cervix.
[00:05:53] Keith: But maybe,
[00:05:57] Mike: So it's like, it's punishing you a little bit. If you, if you don't get her aroused enough, you get your, you get a hole jabbed in your cock.
[00:06:03] Keith: Jesus.
[00:06:04] Mike: It's kind of cool actually.
[00:06:05] Keith: Well, yeah, maybe it's not great that I've felt IUD strings then.
[00:06:10] Mike: And so it could be could be problematic. and yeah I mean, it could be a variety of things, though. She might she wouldn't even likely know what the setting of her cervix is.
[00:06:17] Keith: Yeah, but i I spent some time thinking about this after you guys were talking about it. And I think I was lucky in that I would only feel it, like in in with my partners who had IUDs, I would feel it something, I just can't remember, but it would be less than a third of the time, I think. And I wouldn't, my recollection is that I would feel it like on some strokes and not others, or I could like change angle and it would be okay.
[00:06:47] Mike: I think it might be reasonable, I could propose an experiment here, I think it might be reasonable with Ali to, I've done this before ah with a woman, to take several pieces of paper and simply make a series of cylinders.
[00:07:00] Mike: of different sizes. It's very easy to do because you just, you cut it out, the rectangle is the length, obviously the cock, and then the the the the the width of the paper becomes the day ah the circumference rather. So easy to do.
[00:07:10] Keith: Mm hmm.
[00:07:11] Mike: And then basically put present her with say eight different sizes. One, I mean, you take it from comically small to comically large. So it's a nice range. It's not totally clear what's right. And just be like, look, what's typical for you?
[00:07:22] Mike: And I have a feeling, and this goes along also with her Seeming ability to take all manner of Cox deep into her mouth, I think that she's operating with a substandard. of I think she's dealing with, it you know, it's it's not the number five soccer ball off in here. It's like the number two or three.
[00:07:39] Keith: How could that possibly be the case? Okay, so in case that wasn't clear to our listeners, that was there was a fairly thinly veiled euphemism, but yeah, he's claiming that she hasn't been with well-hung men.
[00:07:50] Keith: Now, how could that possibly be the case?
[00:07:50] Mike: Yes.
[00:07:53] Keith: Do you think that there's something about...
[00:07:58] Keith: how can I don't think...
[00:08:03] Keith: I think that if you slept with 10 men, I think if you slept with 100 men, it would be unlikely that the average penis length was not something close to the mean penis length for a population.
[00:08:14] Mike: I agreed. Agreed, and there's not that much dispersion on penis length, so yeah.
[00:08:17] Keith: Do you think there's, ah right, but do you think there's there there could be certain proclivities that someone would have where they are unusually attracted to men or or for some reason they're selecting men with small penises?
[00:08:31] Mike: I think it's possible. I think last week i I challenged her and said that I thought she was dating only like five foot four Asian men. And she said she'd never had sex with an Asian man. Okay. And then she said that she'd had sex with a six foot four man. Okay.
[00:08:44] Mike: um But, you know, like we've often, I've ah at least often theorized that ah while, for example, while women and men have ah the same average IQ, that ah perhaps a very attractive woman has less incentive to develop her IQ.
[00:08:45] Keith: Yeah, I mean.
[00:08:59] Mike: It could be the same thing with men in the sense that a small, penis man doesn't have an incentive to become kind of the sort more aggressive and dominant. And since Allie has, by her own admission, been more attracted to kind of a kind of nerd nerdy kind of like
[00:09:11] Keith: Nerdy.
[00:09:14] Mike: yet not as aggressive men, like that could, maybe that ultimately is predicted by penis size. So it would be actually your development as a man, like what I said, what I asserted about more attractive women.
[00:09:20] Keith: Huh.
[00:09:25] Mike: And I think larger breasted women too. I just, man, if I was a woman that was hyper attractive and had really big boobs, I just don't know why I would work hard at school. Like who cares? Like you, you know, in fact, working hard in school is a terrible decision because age like 15 to 25 is like, that's the key moment where you're going to get your, get your shit done.
[00:09:42] Mike: Right.
[00:09:43] Keith: Right, well, and everyone is nice to you and your life is like really fun.
[00:09:47] Mike: and Oh my goodness.
[00:09:47] Keith: Like when when I was in high school and college, like I was nerdy and pimply faced and awkward.
[00:09:48] Mike: Yeah.
[00:09:55] Keith: And so, ah yeah, I had plenty of time on which to focus on my studies. But if there were attractive mates constantly throwing themselves at me, inviting me to do fun things, I would be doing that instead of programming in my basement.
[00:10:06] Mike: Right.
[00:10:11] Mike: but It would be highly rational because for a woman because i mean her attractiveness is going to decline over time. This is like this is a be a huge piece of value that she has.
[00:10:17] Keith: Sure.
[00:10:19] Mike: like I have no shade at it actually. It's a huge piece of value she has and like she should be getting in that cheerleader costume and making her bones. ah but But I don't know. I mean i don't know if ah ah Yeah. So I mean, I don't know what, I mean, ultimately I would think that like a more athletic man would be more sort of that going a taller man. And I've always assumed that there's some relationship between penis size and height just because I got to figure that Shaq has a pretty big cock, for example.
[00:10:44] Mike: um
[00:10:44] Keith: Yes, I'm sure height correlates to peanut size.
[00:10:47] Mike: Right. So so given what Ali said, I just don't know, like maybe she has a particularly deep vagina and throat area, and ah her palate, maybe she's maybe she's as large sort of mucous membranes.
[00:11:00] Mike: Her nose isn't especially big.
[00:11:00] Keith: is it Is it possible she's oblivious?
[00:11:06] Mike: I don't think so because she did mention that she has, she, she doesn't mind having her cervix sort of but beaten around. She didn't mind getting a Pap smear. Uh, so she's aware of it.
[00:11:17] Mike: It's a thing that happens to her, but, but yeah, the IUD d string thing I too was, uh, perplexed by that because it was unmistakable and annoying and like, uh, it was unmistakable.
[00:11:24] Keith: yeah Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's like, oh, I know what that is. I don't like feeling something non-organic and potentially damaging on on the tip of my cock.
[00:11:36] Mike: Right. You know what it feels like? is It feels like a staple. It feels like a staple.
[00:11:40] Keith: Yeah.
[00:11:40] Mike: If somebody wanted to know what it feels like, get your cock around, get a a single staple, and then just like poke it into the head of the cock.
[00:11:40] Keith: Yeah.
[00:11:45] Keith: Yeah.
[00:11:46] Mike: And that's what it feels like.
[00:11:47] Keith: yeah
[00:11:47] Mike: Yeah, not great.
[00:11:48] Keith: yeah
[00:11:51] Keith: No, it's not great. All right. Let's, let's move on. Oh, I did one thing on like, if you got out all those, you know, penis shaped things and said, what's, what's normal or what's average, that's not even.
[00:12:03] Mike: I've done this before. Yeah, go ahead.
[00:12:05] Keith: That's not even the right test because a woman's experience is she encounters a new, a new cock every so often, some more often than others, but for Ali, you know, it's probably on average once every six months or something.
[00:12:08] Mike: All right.
[00:12:18] Keith: And so you're not seeing a bunch of them next to each other at the same time. Even you're, you're seeing one in isolation every six months, and then you need to like place them on some sort of relative scale.
[00:12:29] Keith: And I think that's just sort of hard to do.
[00:12:31] Mike: Yeah, but when I did this, when I've done this before, okay, a couple of things. When I did this before, this was before the Me Too movement. So was and I have to admit it was in an office setting, so highly inappropriate. I'm sure it made the women uncomfortable.
[00:12:43] Mike: So I sort of regret it. ah But but the ah they all picked the largest one, which and I don't think they were doing that to troll me.
[00:12:45] Keith: Okay.
[00:12:50] Mike: I think they were confused. like i think that they So they all picked the one that was like I think was eight inches. It was comically large. It wasn't comically large, but it was very big.
[00:12:56] Keith: I see. I see. Right.
[00:12:58] Mike: So they did that, but the main thing that I encouraged them to do and that like was helpful is holding it in their hand. like that's you you can get because Because you both get a sense of where your fingers meet around the thing and you can look at like how much travel I need on the shaft to sort of get from head to bottom, whatever.
[00:13:04] Keith: I see. Mm hmm.
[00:13:15] Mike: Yeah. And so they were able to like get a sense, but but then they all picked. And I think it was like four different women and I had them do it in isolation. so i don't And I don't think they pre-planned this and they all picked the big ass one. I was like, what?
[00:13:27] Mike: what's going on here.
[00:13:28] Keith: Yeah.
[00:13:28] Mike: So I think, so I think what's okay. My interpretation of the time was what's going on here is to women, penises seem big. That was my interpretation.
[00:13:35] Keith: Yes.
[00:13:36] Mike: So it was like, they just seem big to them. And so they, they were like, what's the big thing? That's the big, like, that's, you know,
[00:13:42] Keith: Yeah. Huh. Maybe a better test would be for them to make the role themselves.
[00:13:51] Mike: Sure.
[00:13:51] Keith: Right?
[00:13:51] Mike: But then they would have, now you're expecting a woman to do engineering design.
[00:13:51] Keith: Like what? That way they don't see.
[00:13:56] Mike: Like it's making a cylinder might be too hard.
[00:13:56] Keith: Oh boy.
[00:13:59] Mike: You wind up with like a cone and a trapezoid and all this sort of stuff.
[00:13:59] Keith: Oh, right, right, right. and but I missed this, right. Okay. All right.
[00:14:08] Keith: I've been thinking more about, I mean, this conversation between us was like a month ago or more now, but I've been thinking, yeah, yeah, we've talked a couple of times offline, but ah we we definitely talked about this on the show, which is um my
[00:14:15] Mike: I think it's more, I think you've been gone for like two months. Been a while. That's true. um
[00:14:28] Keith: Obsession's not the right word. My my increased sensitivity to ah the skin on and around the vagina and how I prefer it to be sort of smooth and clean and flawless.
[00:14:30] Mike: That's true. Flawless. Yes.
[00:14:43] Keith: I've been thinking about this some more. I don't understand why you purport not to care about this. Like, okay, If I showed you, you know, two different vaginas and one had, you know, a bunch of ingrown hairs and, uh, you know, some skin tags and, you know, whatever, are you arguing that that, that that is just as compelling or.
[00:15:05] Mike: Yeah.
[00:15:09] Mike: No, no, I agree with you there. I mean, look, you're talking about kind of a beat up looking vulva. Like, yes, in porn, in porn, there are often women like like ideally the woman looks to me is sort of more like amateur or natural looking.
[00:15:23] Mike: And there are women who have these sort of beat up vulva bullvi that look ah that look like they're porn stars. Like, oh, this this is thing's seen a lot of action. It looks it looks like a a guy coming out of like Vietnam.
[00:15:33] Mike: He's a Vietnam veteran. He's sort of smoking a cigarette.
[00:15:35] Keith: Yeah, but you can see that that can't actually correlate.
[00:15:36] Mike: That's not great.
[00:15:40] Keith: Or maybe you don't. Maybe you do think that they show signs of wear and tear.
[00:15:42] Mike: Well, the ingrown hairs definitely relates to ah someone spending an awful lot of time like messing around with the hair.
[00:15:52] Mike: right so it's like It probably does relate to lots of
[00:15:54] Keith: No, I think ingrown hairs relate to how recently they shaved or waxed.
[00:16:01] Mike: Okay. But, but the point being that if a person's shaving all the time, look, a porn star is going to shave and wax more than like a normal person, right? I mean, they're, they're, they're just, there's a lot of attention.
[00:16:12] Mike: There's a lot of stuff happening down there. Uh, the skin tag, ah the skin tag, like, yeah.
[00:16:14] Keith: Maybe, maybe, maybe a married woman, hold on, maybe a married woman wants to please her man. And because she always has her man around because she's married, she, she shaves her or waxes more.
[00:16:26] Mike: Sure, sure, but she can do it on her own schedule. Like it doesn't have to be like, just just she doesn't have this pressure of like every 20 or every, you you know, three times a day.
[00:16:33] Keith: Right. I have another, I have a gig in two hours.
[00:16:34] Mike: She has to look, yeah, I don't, I mean, I, okay. I mean, I guess maybe you have an opinion on this. Like you have more novel partners than I do, but like, I feel like this happens a lot more in porn than in real life.
[00:16:48] Mike: Like you don't see as much of this kind of tomfoolery with the vulva in real life. Do you see a lot of skin tags and, and ingrown hairs and just like problems down there when you're getting busy with a new partner?
[00:16:53] Keith: Uh,
[00:16:59] Keith: no, but no, no.
[00:17:00] Mike: Okay. Well, there you go.
[00:17:02] Keith: And there's definitely, but okay. And especially in early sexual encounters, I just don't care.
[00:17:05] Mike: like
[00:17:08] Keith: Like I'm just so aroused the, because of the novelty.
[00:17:11] Mike: Okay.
[00:17:12] Keith: Um, but I, there are definitely like thinking back on the vaginas of my partners.
[00:17:12] Mike: Okay. But you still notice.
[00:17:19] Keith: I definitely have preferences.
[00:17:22] Mike: OK, but I just I just feel like the amount of wear and tear that you see in porn can be particular. And this is the thing I've noticed that it tends to correlate with the really porn starry looking women.
[00:17:33] Mike: This is this is very subjective.
[00:17:34] Keith: Huh.
[00:17:35] Mike: I just noticed in porn that like if a woman looks kind of amateur and like she's just having fun or something like probably going to look sort of normal. And if she's like a real like she's got really obvious fake breasts and stuff, there's going to be some weird like problems down there.
[00:17:49] Mike: Like just stuff like, it's just stuff. I don't know, man, like skin tags, I don't know what causes them and so forth, but like these problems you're describing, I think may have some relation to just a lot of action in that area. like
[00:17:58] Keith: i know but Okay. We've been through this before, but I think married people on average have more sex than unmarried people. Now, obviously unmarried porn stars are but obviously porn stars are going to have more, more action than anybody, but, but, but, but for the listener of the show and and for ourselves, uh, the amount of action is probably more correlated to whether somebody's in a long-term relationship or not.
[00:18:06] Mike: Not in porn stars. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:22] Mike: We can agree on that, but when, but in this also, I think helps would help for me explain like when you're having sex with a novel partner, she's probably someone who may not have had sex recently. And so you're going to, she's going to have have had that time to let that thing breathe, go to a spa, like kind of just chill out.
[00:18:32] Keith: Yeah, true.
[00:18:36] Mike: And so there aren't going to be a lot of, we so I think it is like, but anyway, This actually is getting away from your main point, which was that I think that in general, the look isn't that important, which I think is right. You're describing this kind of edge case where it's like it's kind of messed up looking and like then, yeah, I think it can become troubling. like there was a There was a man, okay, I saw a porn while you were out.
[00:18:57] Mike: of a man who had what appeared to be like a cyst in his shaft. Now, this is the wizard work. It's weird, actually. So it's it's a shift in in.
[00:19:05] Keith: In on.
[00:19:07] Mike: So there's like a ball of something. And I was watching. I was like, this is disgusting. and b And actually, people commented on the porn, which is it's hard to get comments on a porn saying, like, what's yo, dude?
[00:19:12] Keith: I don't.
[00:19:15] Keith: Uh huh.
[00:19:16] Mike: What's that well that ball? And then the guy, the OP, responded, what do you think he said?
[00:19:21] Keith: Oh, I don't know what can I don't i know.
[00:19:22] Mike: What do you think he said? I'll give you. You want to get off the topic?
[00:19:26] Keith: No, yes, but we we can't. i I don't understand what in the shaft means.
[00:19:32] Mike: Okay, there is a, you have your normal shaft, a cylinder, and there is a there is something that looks like a sphere of tissue underneath the skin that's clearly visible.
[00:19:34] Keith: Yes, that's what I have.
[00:19:39] Keith: ah
[00:19:40] Mike: So there's something, there's kind of a semi-circle, semi-sphere, middle, midpoint, midpoint, and I think
[00:19:42] Keith: howwa How far along? Where? but like ah Like a pimple?
[00:19:49] Mike: No, because it doesn't have like a head or anything. It just looks like ah like a a hemisphere.
[00:19:52] Keith: A boil.
[00:19:55] Mike: Yeah, but but it it looks normal. The skin looks normal, not like taut or anything like that.
[00:19:57] Keith: I see. I see. I see. I see.
[00:19:59] Mike: Okay. I'll just tell you what it is. He goes, oh, that's a marble that I had put under the skin. It feels great.
[00:20:05] Keith: What? No.
[00:20:07] Mike: That's real. That's real. And I was just like, that I mean, it didn't make it better. You're just like, what is going on? What world am I in here?
[00:20:14] Keith: How did he, how, how?
[00:20:15] Mike: Uh, I don't know. I don't know. I look, I had the misfortune of reading the comments because I was like, what is wrong with this person?
[00:20:23] Keith: feel like
[00:20:23] Mike: Someone complained and then I opened the reply and I was like, holy shit, this guy implanted this thing for like, for her pleasure or whatever.
[00:20:29] Keith: Huh.
[00:20:29] Mike: It might've been his, his girlfriend who was commenting.
[00:20:32] Keith: Was it on the top of his shaft?
[00:20:35] Mike: I think it was on the side, which made it even grosser because it's it wasn't on the bottom.
[00:20:37] Keith: Yeah, if it was on the top, if it was on the top, you can imagine it that rib, that artificial rib, ah helping ah clitoral stimulation.
[00:20:43] Mike: I think it was. Yeah.
[00:20:49] Mike: You could, you could. I mean, I don't know, man. Anyway, his claim was he had to marble into the skin.
[00:20:53] Keith: I mean, not ah ah yeah, I don't care how much stimulation it gives her, I don't think. Let me think about this. Would I do some sort of body modification? if I think I would, if it was painless for me, if it was painless for me.
[00:21:04] Mike: Really?
[00:21:07] Keith: even if it was a little bit painful, it's a sorry, one time painful.
[00:21:08] Mike: Well.
[00:21:12] Keith: I wouldn't want it to be like painful every time I had sex for the rest of my life.
[00:21:14] Mike: Okay, but for a new partner, every new partner, you'd have to be like, look, just so you know, honey, as you're getting your, you'd be like, there is, I, this is going to be, you're going to like this in the end, but I have a marble implanted under my cockskin and they're going to be like, what?
[00:21:18] Keith: Yeah, I know, I know.
[00:21:25] Keith: Yeah, it is a tricky conversation to have.
[00:21:29] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, probably for a woman's pleasure, it'd be better to have like a vibrator implanted in your finger anyway, or something or in your tongue. That would be more effective. So I don't know.
[00:21:39] Keith: You could just hold your cell phone and have someone call you and leave it on vibrate.
[00:21:43] Mike: Okay, but hang on, let's get back to this. So you you don't understand why I think that it doesn't matter that much. Yeah, I don't understand why you're like obsessed with I mean, it's yeah, it's better for things to look better.
[00:21:50] Keith: i don't know ah
[00:21:52] Keith: i thought
[00:21:54] Mike: I don't know.
[00:21:54] Keith: like i've I've been on my own out in the wild for months now, and and so I've had lots of time to like percolate on these thoughts. and but I'm trying to understand if like my sensitivity to ah vaginal beauty is unusual or not.
[00:22:11] Mike: I think so.
[00:22:11] Keith: and I think it might be, because like we've talked about for years about how Whenever I see pictures of women's crotches, I like zoom in and i I really like, even if they're wearing a bikini, I like sort of like examining the area around the bikini line.
[00:22:26] Keith: This this puts this is a kind of thing that would probably give women anxiety.
[00:22:31] Mike: Sure. the the only the way in which i can The way in which I can understand what you're saying, but I don't think this i think this is kind of at a 30 degree angle to what you're saying, is definitely, like for example, I saw a porn recently that was that featured like three or four different women and they were sort of caressing each other.
[00:22:32] Keith: I knew I was doing this.
[00:22:49] Mike: Anyway, they were standing there and one of them, this very young lady, And she had all like there was just it was very smooth, like there was no labia protruding at all. And that was attractive to me, differentially more attractive simply because I think the less there is there, the more she looks like an action figure, so to speak, the more you're like the more it accentuates the lack of masculine characteristics.
[00:23:05] Keith: Yes.
[00:23:11] Mike: So that like I can understand, but ah you're not.
[00:23:11] Keith: Yes.
[00:23:16] Mike: That's again, not exactly what you're saying, because you're saying like you want this.
[00:23:18] Keith: Well, I would also say that, like you've we've met we've discussed this a bit in the past, like, yeah, like labia size, I think men generally prefer smaller labia.
[00:23:23] Mike: Right.
[00:23:27] Keith: I think some men have a fetish for for for big labia, but ah most men prefer less.
[00:23:31] Mike: I think it's mostly, in it's but it's in contrast to the male form. So basically anything that makes her look less masculine is good, which is also why, this is also why it's not that men are pedophiles when men are attracted to lack of hair, kind of a youthful appearance, chubbiness, all this kind of stuff.
[00:23:35] Keith: Yes. I agree. It's feminizing. Yes.
[00:23:48] Mike: It's it's because it's the opposite of masculine. It's like, we know what we look like. We see ourselves in the mirror. We see our own cock. And like, it's it's arousing to have somebody that's so distinctly not male.
[00:23:56] Keith: Right. Yes.
[00:23:58] Mike: Yeah.
[00:23:59] Keith: But to your point, that's not all that I'm talking about here. I'm talking about, okay, some men when they shave, ah you know particularly on their neck where the the hair can grow in sort of weird directions, people get razor burn, they'll get razor bumps, they'll have little scabs, maybe little nicks, they'll have ingrown hairs.
[00:24:03] Mike: i know
[00:24:12] Mike: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:24:20] Keith: And, you know, a clean-shaven man, like, you know, when when Gillette does their fucking commercials, the guy looks like, you know, like his skin is pristine.
[00:24:27] Mike: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:29] Keith: You know, it looks looks nice. And I think it's strange that men don't, at least in their porn, select for that more.
[00:24:31] Mike: Yes.
[00:24:39] Keith: You you don't really get to select for that in real life because you don't you you don't get to see the the the vagina until ah it's too late.
[00:24:43] Mike: I think that men,
[00:24:48] Mike: I mean, look, nobody wants, I think in general, nobody wants injuries on a person, right? So if somebody's got bruising, blood, cuts, and so forth, or I mean, ingrown hair is a form of injury.
[00:24:55] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
[00:25:01] Mike: I think other than that, the main attraction of these various things is like a clean shaven man, I don't know, but a clean shaven woman, the thing that's attractive is just that she is so vulnerable looking.
[00:25:13] Mike: it's It's not male, it's not masculine, and also looks super vulnerable.
[00:25:14] Keith: Yeah.
[00:25:17] Mike: But I mean you could argue that somebody look I mean ah a woman with her pedic vaginal lips would look vulnerable too I mean she's injured so I don't know I'm not sure there's some sort of mix between vulnerability and cleanliness that's that's the ideal and I think that's what you're going for there I just don't think that I obsess over it the way you do it's like I whatever like I can sort of ah blur my eyes a little and it's not visible.
[00:25:33] Keith: Yeah.
[00:25:38] Keith: Okay. All right. I'm going to endeavor to obsess over this less because well, no, I'm not funny.
[00:25:46] Mike: and If everyone brings you joy, look, that's what the the Kamala Harris campaign is all about joy and and the way you find joy is yeah this labia or no lack of labia.
[00:25:56] Keith: funny You should, you should mention Kamala.
[00:25:56] Mike: Just a slit, please.
[00:25:58] Keith: So, so Trump has been. spouting off about, to women, he says, stop thinking about abortion. ah did you Did you see that is his Truth Social post on on this?
[00:26:07] Mike: I should.
[00:26:11] Mike: i I have to say that I don't have a true social account, but I do often go there to see what he says. So I'm i'm a user. That's part of the reason they have a two or $3 billion dollars market cap is my usage, I think.
[00:26:21] Keith: You have an account on, did you need an account to read?
[00:26:24] Mike: No, I don't. No, I don't have an account.
[00:26:25] Keith: Okay, sorry. and you're Okay, you have a user, not a user account, aren't I saying?
[00:26:26] Mike: I just go there. I just simply go to the ah URL with real Donald Trump to see what he said because people often refer to it. So it's like, Oh, okay. Let's, let's see what the crazy guys said this day today.
[00:26:37] Keith: I don't think I've been once.
[00:26:38] Mike: you
[00:26:38] Keith: Is it truth dot.com?
[00:26:40] Mike: Truthsocial.com. Truth.com would be a good yeah URL, but we should try to get that for the podcast.
[00:26:47] Keith: I'm not sure we could outspend Trump on that, and I'm i'm sure they've they've looked into it.
[00:26:51] Mike: That's fair.
[00:26:52] Keith: Okay, so here's what he, ah I don't know what the verb is. Here's what he truth, and this is in all caps, of course.
[00:26:57] Mike: It is Truth. That's good.
[00:26:59] Keith: Okay, all right, nice, good for them. Women are poorer than they were four years ago, are less healthy than they were four years ago, are less safe on the streets than they were four years ago, are more depressed and unhappy than they were four years ago, and are less optimistic and confident in the future than they were four years ago.
[00:27:14] Keith: I will fix all of that and fast and at long last this nation, that this national nightmare will be over. Women will be happy, healthy, confident, and free. You will no longer be thinking about abortion because it is now where it always had to be with the States in a vote of the people.
[00:27:31] Mike: Hang on. So I want to ask you a question really fast. Do you know what he's referring to when he says yeah this national nightmare nightmare will be over?
[00:27:33] Keith: Yeah.
[00:27:37] Keith: Uh, the Biden and presidency. No, what what is the national nightmare?
[00:27:42] Mike: No.
[00:27:43] Keith: Women's unhappiness.
[00:27:45] Mike: So I bet most, if you're if you're listening and you know what this is, then bravo. He's referring to the speech that Gerald Ford gave after he became president when Nixon resigned.
[00:27:54] Keith: Oh, how do you know he's referring to that?
[00:27:54] Mike: And he talks about, art he says, our long national nightmare is over. He actually is. um
[00:28:01] Mike: it Just because he's his age is right. I mean, he would have been, yeah, he would have been in his 30s.
[00:28:03] Keith: He was alive for that. And and maybe maybe that maybe that planted the seed. But do you think if, I know, but if you think do you think if you asked him where that reference came from, do you think he would be able to put a finger on it?
[00:28:09] Mike: Because national nightmare,
[00:28:17] Mike: I think i would be if if he wrote that truth post, then yes, I don't know if he wrote it, but if he wrote it, then yes, actually, I do.
[00:28:24] Keith: I see. I think he did.
[00:28:26] Mike: it's like it's say It's people of his generation would all know that quote because they'd all remember that speech. It was important.
[00:28:32] Keith: I think he famously is the only person who writes his own truths.
[00:28:37] Mike: then Then I think he might know that. he Look, he's not he's not the most well-read man, but he probably would know this because it had a lot of currency at one time.
[00:28:42] Keith: okay
[00:28:44] Keith: all right and i don't I don't want to argue that, but ah um but i'll i'll I adjusted my
[00:28:45] Mike: ok
[00:28:47] Mike: Okay.
[00:28:51] Keith: my prior to it being a 2% chance that that he would get that reference to maybe 20.
[00:28:57] Mike: Sure.
[00:28:58] Keith: So you 10x'd it.
[00:28:58] Mike: All right.
[00:28:59] Keith: All right, anyway, all right. So you and I have talked about this offline, which is this, ah the Supreme Court decision, Dobbs versus, who is it?
[00:29:10] Mike: Whoever, you know, I don't know.
[00:29:10] Keith: Versus? Yeah. um Yeah.
[00:29:12] Mike: North Carolina, I think.
[00:29:14] Keith: Where they, are ah returned the
[00:29:19] Mike: Jackson, not North Carolina, Jackson Women's Health Organization.
[00:29:20] Keith: yeah yeah it It overruled the the Roe versus Wade decision that federalized ah legalized abortion.
[00:29:24] Mike: Yes.
[00:29:26] Keith: And so now whether abortion is legal has been returned to the 50 states.
[00:29:27] Mike: Yeah.
[00:29:32] Keith: And ah let me see if I can ah steel man your position here.
[00:29:38] Mike: Oh, good.
[00:29:39] Keith: Your position your position is that ah constitutionally ah Roe versus Ray, it was on fairly flimsy ground and such matters probably should ah indeed are ah constitutionally required to be left up to the States and the Supreme Court making this decision ah saying nothing about philosophically or or the ethics of it.
[00:30:06] Keith: ah the The legality of Roe versus Wade was was a little bit flimsy and returning ah this the decision about whether it should be legal to the states is, ah quote unquote, right or or or just in that sense.
[00:30:20] Mike: Yeah, that's not, that's not, that's an okay steel man. Let me say a couple things.
[00:30:24] Keith: All right, go ahead.
[00:30:24] Mike: First of all, returning to the, I don't think it has to be decided by the States because it's, um and the only reason I say that is that I think there are a lot of medical things that are decided at a national level, ah drug authorization, so forth.
[00:30:38] Mike: Although when you're a doctor, you might be licensed by the state. I'm not sure about that. In any event, ah you could certainly have a federal law about what happens with abortion and what's legal and what isn't, I think that would be fine.
[00:30:49] Mike: The thing that I think is terrible is having it, sure.
[00:30:49] Keith: Yeah, it would come from the legislature.
[00:30:52] Mike: The problem is that i don't I think that when you have decisions like this that are left up to a court, they become these ah permanent bleeding wounds in your society that never get solved because the way you solve problems in a democracy or a republic is votes.
[00:31:05] Mike: ah This is how European countries have dealt with this. They just have a vote and then people go, okay, i got I had my say. And of course, if people's opinions change, you can have another vote. When you decide things in a court, it's inherently undemocratic. And so then it just becomes this forever wound because people feel like they weren't heard and they didn't get their get to participate in the process. And so while yes, there are a bunch of women who've been inconvenienced by this. I know people say they're women who have died because of it. Maybe there are. I still think it's worth it. Even if they're women who've died because of it, I think it's worth it because I think eventually you'll resolve the problem. And I think our country has much more important things to deal with than this. This actually isn't for him. So I actually agree. I think Trump is wrong about a lot of things, but this one I happen to think he's right about. Just having a vote will sort of solve this because people can then just sort of and let their voice be heard.
[00:31:51] Keith: Okay. I'm not sure I disagree with anything there. I guess I would ah that look, I think, you know, a lot of people get blamed for having Trump derangement syndrome.
[00:32:02] Keith: I am. I definitely have Trump derangement syndrome. So like whenever somebody defends Trump at all, like I reflexively just have to react to that. So like a minute ago when you're like, yeah, I think he might've heard that from an old speech and, you know, was, was probably using that language properly.
[00:32:13] Mike: Hmm.
[00:32:18] Keith: I'm like, yeah, there's no way that's possible. it took so Like, like my prior
[00:32:21] Mike: Sure. but Which is reasonable.
[00:32:23] Keith: at like 2%.
[00:32:24] Mike: Frankly, that's reasonable. The guy most of the time is lying or saying that he's exaggerates. he's He's obviously just a shithead. So yeah, sure.
[00:32:30] Keith: Right, yeah, but you're not debating that point.
[00:32:32] Mike: Yeah.
[00:32:33] Keith: But that that he he was right to return this to the states
[00:32:33] Mike: Right.
[00:32:40] Keith: I don't like i don't like ah attributing anything to Trump. like I think that in order to build a constituency that would vote for him, some advisors of him told him like, look, you need to pick Supreme Court justices that are gonna do this thing.
[00:32:56] Keith: And he was like, okay, that sounds good. like i I don't think he really thought about this until in arrears he had to sort of come up with a justification that would make himself palatable going forward.
[00:33:05] Mike: That's right. I think it's highly likely that Trump has benefited from abortion being legal, like personally, although he's had how many he's had. He's a bunch of kids, right? He's he's spread his seed.
[00:33:15] Keith: Yeah.
[00:33:15] Mike: ah So that's good for him. But he's probably there have been a number of women I'm imagining that have aborted fetuses that were generated by his penis.
[00:33:22] Keith: Yes.
[00:33:24] Mike: I got to think.
[00:33:25] Keith: Yes, I don't believe that he is ethically, I don't think that he personally is ethically against abortion, but that doesn't necessarily matter what what he thinks the law should be.
[00:33:25] Mike: um
[00:33:33] Mike: Sure. Sure.
[00:33:38] Keith: But I don't think he cares what the law should be. He wants the law to be whatever the thing that's going to get him the most votes.
[00:33:40] Mike: Yeah. I mean, deciding what, to I mean, women, women, I actually have frequently interacted with women who are viciously pro-choice. They're just like, look, this is, this is a no brainer. It's, it's, I'm completely pro-choice. I think it's a little bit more complicated than that because when you like, if you, I mean, look, ultimately a doctor has to go in and do it.
[00:34:03] Mike: or deal with it if you've taken the abortion pill. And like when you look at those little, there are those like charts of like what the fetus looks like at different stages of development. And like I don't know, man, I wouldn't want to have to go into someone's uterus and rip out something that looks a lot like a little baby.
[00:34:15] Mike: like i don't I just don't want to do that.
[00:34:17] Keith: Sure, but...
[00:34:17] Mike: um so So it's a little more complicated than just, oh, it's my body.
[00:34:19] Keith: Oh.
[00:34:20] Mike: It's like sort of, but I mean, someone has to deal with this. like you If you could just do it to yourself in your own home and there was no complications, then all right. But i don't it's not Uh, that's simple. And even with the pill, it's not that simple because I mean, there was a recent case where a woman died because she needed a, uh, there was fetal tissue leftover. Right. And so like you, the pill is not a panacea.
[00:34:40] Keith: Yeah, but hold on, hold on, hold on. All right. So I think it is true that there is probably some psychological effect on the doctors that perform abortions.
[00:34:50] Mike: Yeah.
[00:34:50] Keith: I would not want to do that personally. ah However, that's what the money is for.
[00:34:53] Mike: Right. Me either.
[00:34:55] Keith: and And the doctors get paid to do such procedures.
[00:34:57] Mike: Sure.
[00:35:00] Keith: so
[00:35:00] Mike: Yeah, but as you know, like the government's paying like the marginal abortion is paid for by the government. So then there's that too. But OK, sure, that's what the money is. Meaning like how well how much do you how much do you pay?
[00:35:07] Keith: Yes, but
[00:35:08] Mike: Do you give the guy a million bucks a year to do this or the woman?
[00:35:11] Keith: Yeah, I mean if if we were having to force people to give abortions and had to pay them a ton of money to get them to do it There there could be a more interesting argument there Yes,
[00:35:19] Mike: Well, that actually is a problem. That actually is a problem because under Roe versus Wade, you had ah states where there were very few abortion clinics. And you could say, I mean, it's it's more than just that they didn't want to do it or grossed out by it or something. It's also that there was community opposition. But that's another thing the doctor has to deal with, right, is they have to live in this place where everybody hates them.
[00:35:36] Keith: yes
[00:35:37] Mike: and so like so actually Actually, I think there are people who would like to see people basically drafted into having to do abortions in North Dakota or whatever, or Texas, um because they're like, the access is so important.
[00:35:47] Keith: Yeah, but you're getting to like arguments that I think are actually interesting to have, which are
[00:35:50] Mike: you know
[00:35:56] Mike: All right.
[00:35:57] Keith: where should the line be? Like when is the last moment to that a woman should be quote unquote allowed to have an abortion? I think that's an interesting discussion and we never get to have it because the discussion is whether it should be allowed at all.
[00:36:07] Mike: Right.
[00:36:08] Keith: And then yeah, like if they are allowed, who does it? And what do you think the law should be in a place like, ah but I don't know, what there's gotta be a state where 80% of the people think abortion shouldn't be allowed.
[00:36:23] Mike: Probably Wyoming or something.
[00:36:23] Keith: And in such, yeah, in such a conservative place,
[00:36:24] Mike: Yeah.
[00:36:27] Keith: ah Do you you know drop in by parachute? More liberal doctors that have no problem with it, but then like what are their lives like? they have you know They're like ostracized by the community. and
[00:36:37] Mike: ah or do you i mean I think it might be easier. just and this is See, this is the regime you wind up with. ah If you have it only legal in certain states, you just give the women plane tickets to to go to California or whatever and get it done.
[00:36:48] Mike: I mean there's nothing i don't know. i mean As long as it's made possible via money to to do that, that might actually be a more practical solution. um Assuming it's you know elective, like it's not like an emergency or something.
[00:36:56] Keith: Yes, but... that
[00:37:02] Mike: um to meet To me, what's more interesting is like the structure of the debate. like there is there is a um Women sort of vigorously say things like, well, it's my body. And it's like, it actually isn't.
[00:37:14] Mike: It's not just your body. Someone has to do it.
[00:37:16] Keith: Yes, I...
[00:37:16] Mike: it's not like it's If you were just on an island, you wouldn't abort.
[00:37:17] Keith: i i Yes.
[00:37:20] Mike: You would have the baby. So it's like, no, something else has to happen here, right?
[00:37:21] Keith: so Yeah, I agree that the ah the the slogan, you know, my body, my choice is a little bit reductive.
[00:37:31] Mike: Right. That slogan works really well for ah for us for a suicide. there was recently a well The first person used one of those suicide pods in Switzerland or wherever.
[00:37:39] Keith: Yeah, the 3D printed suicide pod. Yes, in the woods.
[00:37:42] Mike: Sure. and that that yeah that like I assume they were in the woods not to hide from the authorities, but it was just to have a nice view while dying, which I was like, that's pretty nice.
[00:37:50] Keith: Yeah.
[00:37:51] Mike: Um, but, um, yeah, that is my, my, my choice. It's like, although, although someone still has to dispose of your body, like now you have a rotting corpse in this pod somewhere, like it's, you know, it's very hard to do something that doesn't include involve other people somehow.
[00:38:03] Keith: Well, maybe the pod. So yes, all right. So hold on. For the listeners that haven't been following the news, ah there's was it Switzerland? It was somewhere in Europe.
[00:38:14] Mike: I'm not sure people go ahead.
[00:38:14] Keith: um somebody so Somebody else came up with the schematics to 3D print a device that will help you commit suicide in a pain-free way.
[00:38:27] Keith: and somebody apparently 3D printed it and used it. It was like ah somebody in their 60s, I believe, and they had some terminal thing. and i don't I don't remember the details exactly. But yes, this pod should probably be programmed to incinerate the body and then blow itself up.
[00:38:41] Keith: and
[00:38:41] Mike: That's complicated, then blow itself up. and It'd be like ah one of the Hamas pagers, it it turns out there's a kid walking by, the pod blows up. ah ah you of Of note though, I mean like ah one of them, I think in Canada, I've read that in certain places ah where a physician, where yeah, a suicide is made legal, significant number of the people doing it are are suffering from mental illnesses like depression and anxiety.
[00:39:04] Mike: And then you wonder like, should should that be legal? I don't know. So these things are sort of naughty, K-N-O-T-T-Y issues. um
[00:39:11] Keith: Yes.
[00:39:11] Mike: On pro-choice pro-life, I don't actually care like I'm pro-choice. But the myp for me, it's like me, the main thing is people should talk about it and have a vote and then come up with something that doesn't like, yeah, that's just a workable, like whatever, you know?
[00:39:22] Keith: Yeah, i mean I guess my opinion on it is...
[00:39:23] Mike: Yeah.
[00:39:27] Keith: I don't like that it gets reductive. So I think that killing a very young fetus is something like you know stepping on an ant hill or killing a bee.
[00:39:41] Keith: it it It is a small moral wrong, but the the
[00:39:45] Mike: but you wouldn't do it, but you still wouldn't do it. Like if I was like, Hey, you just push this button. Maybe you would, maybe you would. If you could push, you wouldn't want to go in with the scalpel and or whatever the extractor and like extract the, you know, suck out the brain and all that. You don't want to do that.
[00:40:00] Keith: No, because I think it's a small moral wrong, but the moral gain by allowing a woman to be able to have control of of her life is exceeds the value of that small moral wrong.
[00:40:12] Keith: so so
[00:40:13] Mike: But you don't get that benefit. All you get the money, I guess, is your point. You get the money and you and and the wrong of or whatever, like kind of crappy thing you had to do to extract this fetus.
[00:40:22] Keith: Yeah, I don't think I would have, I don't know, I'm i'm pretty good at compartmentalizing stuff like this. I i just don't.
[00:40:29] Mike: Yeah, that's fair. I don't know, though, man, if you saw it, if I mean, like I've read things that suggest like, I mean, it looks a lot like a baby. You know, like, oh, man, this kind of sucks.
[00:40:38] Keith: I have to, I have to, and I've seen ultrasounds, but I do think I would be able to abstract it.
[00:40:39] Mike: Yeah.
[00:40:41] Mike: Yeah.
[00:40:43] Keith: I'm, I'm pretty careful about thinking about the moral wrong I'm committing when I eat meat and it does bother me and I feel like I'm sort of a bad person.
[00:40:44] Mike: OK.
[00:40:52] Keith: Now this hasn't stopped me from eating meat, but I don't walk around pretending like eating meat has no moral negative aspect to it. Like I know that when I eat a cheeseburger,
[00:41:03] Keith: you know, some portion of a cow had to die for me to do that. And it bums me out a little bit, but I still do it. And it's sort of the same with abortion. Like I can see that it's a moral wrong to kill a fetus. I just think that the benefit of letting a woman, you know, have control over, over pregnancies exceeds the negative value of, of killing that thing. Now,
[00:41:24] Mike: Yeah, that's reasonable.
[00:41:24] Keith: At some point, at some point ah the line is crossed. And I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about like, well, is it like first trimester, second trimester, third trimester?
[00:41:34] Mike: Well, you think the line is, you think the line is like seventh trimester, right? Like, uh, like when it's two years old or something, like you would have, you would have been in favor of the range of Roman practice or Greek practice or just leaving them out on a hillside.
[00:41:39] Keith: Well,
[00:41:49] Keith: I think we should talk about this, but we've talked about abortion enough this episode.
[00:41:50] Mike: to be devoured.
[00:41:54] Mike: All right.
[00:41:54] Keith: Let's talk about some other sex thing.
[00:41:54] Mike: All right. Let's move on.
[00:41:55] Keith: And then, and yeah, maybe, yeah, we could bring Allie in for my, I think it can be morally defended to allow women to kill, murder their own children.
[00:41:56] Mike: Yeah.
[00:42:02] Mike: So the, the net here is, I don't know, I don't know about all the other stuff that Trump said here in all caps.
[00:42:07] Keith: Yes.
[00:42:07] Mike: Uh, he's the guy is generally deranged, but I mean, you got your choice in this election is deranged or probably really stupid. So those are your choices. Uh, but, um, this is something where he could be like, he could have a reasonable viewpoint.
[00:42:20] Keith: Okay.
[00:42:21] Mike: Like he's not, he's not, this is like one of his better takes sort of my take.
[00:42:22] Keith: Can I, okay. I still don't want to ascribe the take to him.
[00:42:26] Mike: Yeah.
[00:42:29] Keith: So let lets let's just like throw Trump out for a moment or forever.
[00:42:29] Mike: Okay. That's fair.
[00:42:33] Mike: Yeah, fair, fair.
[00:42:34] Keith: um You're saying ah returning this issue to the States stops it from being this perennial, you know, federal battleground that comes up in every election and sort of leap
[00:42:48] Mike: Right. It distracts us from real stuff.
[00:42:50] Keith: Right, leaves it up to the people to decide. And and the net negative of having 12 states where it's totally impossible and another 20 where it's kind of annoying to have an abortion is actually smaller than the net negative of the thing I just said, which is having it be like this constant thorny issue in every election forever.
[00:43:06] Mike: right
[00:43:09] Mike: Yeah, i would ah my the only ah refinement I'd say on that is that we have the hope now of a resolution that makes it kind of ah an issue of the past, like what they have like in France, where ah there are a lot of Catholics in France, a lot of people against abortion, but they've just sort of decided on, I think it's like 20 weeks or something nationwide. And like you have the possibility of just having an agreement. Yeah, pro-left people will always be upset about it. Okay, but at least like it's like, if you get like 80% of the people going, yeah, this seems fair, like Yeah.
[00:43:36] Mike: Okay. They can be upset. People are upset about Roswell, New Mexico and the moon landing and stuff, but it won't matter, right?
[00:43:38] Keith: Right.
[00:43:41] Mike: Because they just won't have any currency anymore.
[00:43:42] Keith: Okay.
[00:43:44] Mike: It's not, it's, it's just a topic that has no, it's an, it's an, it's a never ending. It's like a Marvel so movie series. It just never ends.
[00:43:52] Keith: Do you think there's any situation where the Supreme Court should effectively create a law? Let's say there was some legislation ah or or some prior court case that said, we're going to take all of Jeff Bezos' money and distribute it to all Americans evenly.
[00:44:09] Keith: So 330 million Americans would be in support of that.
[00:44:10] Mike: Mm-hmm Right
[00:44:13] Keith: And one American would not be in support of that, Jeff Bezos himself. And then, you know, the court might say, okay, this is ridiculous. We're not going to take Jeff Bezos' money and redistribute it. Like, would would you support that decision?
[00:44:25] Mike: Well, I think that might be a a bill of attainder, so it would be unconstitutional.
[00:44:28] Keith: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
[00:44:30] Mike: But ah but but in general, and yeah, of course, the court, their role is to strike down things that violate our basic law.
[00:44:30] Keith: Okay.
[00:44:36] Keith: Let's see.
[00:44:36] Mike: But um there' it's yeah as you get more and more toward these sort of controversial topics, ah that could be studied and voted on by people. Yeah, it's shitty to have them just decide unless like there's an emergency and you have to for a period of time.
[00:44:51] Mike: But like having them decide something for 50 years that's so contentious is just retarded. like It's a terrible use of the process.
[00:44:58] Keith: Yes.
[00:44:59] Mike: um I think that should be obvious to everyone.
[00:44:59] Keith: it i think I think it is, but the the current state of the paralyzed legislature might.
[00:45:00] Mike: It frustrates me actually that pro-choice people won't admit that because it's just obviously right.
[00:45:11] Mike: you know, maybe that's part of the reason they're paralyzed is because it's like, yeah, sometimes people need to take their medicine. It's like you, yeah, people have given up on them and turned to the courts. And it's like, if the courts just go, look, we're the wrong place for this.
[00:45:22] Mike: Maybe they fix it.
[00:45:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:45:23] Mike: I don't know.
[00:45:24] Keith: Yeah, okay. um All right.
[00:45:26] Mike: Mostly this is because Americans are stupid.
[00:45:31] Mike: Yeah.
[00:45:32] Keith: Yeah, I mean, um certainly we agree on that topic. um All right, so I didn't have time to come up with topics, so I'm just picking those ones that you selected. What should we do?
[00:45:42] Mike: Oh, good.
[00:45:43] Keith: Had the worst anal experience tonight?
[00:45:45] Mike: Yes, this one's disgusting.
[00:45:45] Keith: All right.
[00:45:46] Mike: Do it.
[00:45:47] Keith: it's It's quite long, but ah oh, no, two of these two of these things are edits. All right. It's not that long. Had the worst anal sex experience last night. I feel so humiliated. TBH means to be honest. So me and this dude have been having sex for more than a year now for a good six months.
[00:46:01] Keith: It was just vaginal sex. Then he started asking for anal.
[00:46:04] Mike: Yeah.
[00:46:04] Keith: Yeah. Before him, I've never had anal sex and I wanted to try it. The first time I told him I wasn't prepared. But he kept insisting. So we did it. He was gentle with it. So it was okay. I didn't enjoy it. And I let him know it wasn't messy. Like I expected it to be. So that was a relief. Every time we had sex, he will insist on anal. And we did all the time. Last night, this jerk called me to pick him up somewhere. We ended up at his place and ended up having sex. He asked for anal. I told him, I wasn't prepared for it. He kept saying, please. So to shut him up, I said, okay. But kept telling him, I wasn't prepared for it today. See, this is not.
[00:46:41] Keith: The feedback that that men that keep saying please need. ah In any case, told him to be gentle but the guy didn't listen because next minute he was all up deep inside my asshole just so rough. He was painful and I let him know but he wasn't listening. He just kept going in and out roughly so quick roughly and quick and I just laid there trying so hard not to cry. He come.
[00:47:02] Keith: I got up and I pull literally, and I pull literally smell shit everywhere. I quickly went into the shower, cleaned up, told him I wasn't embarrassed, but deep down I was, and I feel he didn't listen to me.
[00:47:13] Keith: This morning woke up to my anal being so sore and having, these grammar errors are not mine, by the way, they're hers, and having difficulty walking straight.
[00:47:19] Mike: Yeah, it's good.
[00:47:22] Keith: What's the obsession with anal? Literally every man I was involved with have asked me for anal. What's so good about it?
[00:47:28] Mike: So I think what happened here is he forced it on her. Uh, I think some people would consider this a rape, right?
[00:47:36] Keith: Yes, I think many.
[00:47:37] Mike: Cause she's crying there. Okay. But just checking.
[00:47:39] Keith: Yes.
[00:47:40] Mike: And, uh, and then her ass, she shat everywhere.
[00:47:44] Keith: ah Well, it's ah it's unclear. the the The one sentence we get describing the situation is, he come, I got up and I pull literally smell shit everywhere. I quickly went in to the shower cleaned up.
[00:48:01] Mike: Right.
[00:48:01] Keith: I think your interpretation there could be right. Certainly there was um ah a strong odor and and probably because of material.
[00:48:14] Mike: Yes, yes. So yeah, I mean, what like, so this guy, I mean, I think this guy may never have considered that possibility, that the possibility of that outcome.
[00:48:26] Keith: Yeah, we don't have ages here, but, uh, considering she's writing at about a fourth grade level, um, I yeah, you're right.
[00:48:31] Mike: She's probably 35 sure.
[00:48:34] Keith: I'm guessing this is a, a young woman of some kind. Um, I don't know what men expect to happen with anal sex.
[00:48:44] Keith: Like one of the reasons why I didn't try it until I was in my, I think early forties is. I don't want to have the experience of associating sex with my partners my partner's shit. Like that's just not like the possible benefit of a slightly different and likely inferior sensation on my cock.
[00:49:10] Keith: is is not worth the downside risk of ah being you know traumatized by ah shit smell at best and and shit appearance and texture ah more likely. So yeah, I'm just not that interested in it. But I think young men haven't thought this through properly.
[00:49:30] Mike: Right. How would you react if you were with, I mean, you're going to say you'd stop immediately, but it's like, can you put yourself in the mind of this guy who's just pumping away and the woman's there just sobbing?
[00:49:44] Keith: No, I don't think I would enjoy such a thing. I can imagine like a very dominant person sort of liking the, look, look yeah, like rape fantasy and reluctance fantasy are are are quite common.
[00:49:56] Mike: Right. Right, but you're doing anal and so yeah.
[00:49:57] Keith: um I also suspect, oh boy, yeah, I really, ah did look, okay. We had a listener complain that I do this sometimes, but yeah, and I want to issue the proper caveats here.
[00:50:08] Keith: Like it's possible that her recollection of how much resistance she was offering is not entirely accurate.
[00:50:16] Mike: That she wasn't actually offering very much. Or he might not have interpreted this very much.
[00:50:19] Keith: ah You said it about me.
[00:50:21] Mike: Yeah. Well, no, he might not have, and he might not have interpreted, which I think that's very, I think that's very possible that there could be confusion. Uh, yeah, because it, because it's, it's, it's like a very physical situation.
[00:50:32] Mike: It's not clear. Emotional resistance isn't obvious.
[00:50:33] Keith: Well, yeah, and and and and to you know just spike the football on that, like a very common reaction for women is to sort of freeze and
[00:50:43] Mike: Yeah.
[00:50:44] Keith: even if she wasn't crying, if she was just you know sort of paralyzed, that doesn't make it not rape. So um anyway, those caveats aside, like, yeah, I don't know what he what was going through his mind.
[00:50:51] Mike: Sure.
[00:50:57] Keith: you know there was There could have been alcohol involved. He was obsessed and he just wasn't reading the situation properly. That would be the ah kind interpretation here.
[00:51:07] Mike: it's It's notable to me that in like in this situation, I think that a a thing that the the Okay, so the man is going to fetishize, a young man might fetishize anal sex because it's dominant and taboo.
[00:51:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:51:22] Mike: But he simultaneously doesn't consider like the mess that could be generated and the fact that all of the emotional risk around that mess is on her, basically.
[00:51:32] Keith: Yeah.
[00:51:33] Mike: right Because he's not, like to him, he could laugh it off.
[00:51:33] Keith: Yeah.
[00:51:36] Mike: Or yeah, I mean you just have to like whatever wash the clothes kind of grows and like you said it could make you Connect mentally sex with this not great thing that happened.
[00:51:47] Mike: But for her it's like I i mean Psychologically, it could be pretty damn. I mean like yeah I imagine ah like I had a dream last night that I was walking around San Francisco naked and Uh, so that's like some kind of a stress dream.
[00:51:59] Keith: Okay.
[00:52:00] Mike: I don't know this, but it's obviously negative, right? Uh, if you had a dream where like you needed to shit really bad and chat in front of a bunch of people, that would always be a negative experience in a dream, right? I mean, these are like, this is something that you're psychologically afraid of.
[00:52:10] Keith: Yeah.
[00:52:13] Mike: I don't, well, like just cause it's gross.
[00:52:13] Keith: yeah
[00:52:15] Mike: Like that's why and embarrassing. And basically she's, she's potentially forcing her to live that out. It's like, look, you're going to shit yourself in front of me.
[00:52:23] Keith: Yeah, i I haven't had children.
[00:52:23] Mike: Um,
[00:52:27] Keith: ah my My sisters have had three total and you know I've been around and and helped with the poopy diapers and I if have not been around it enough where I've become numb to the awfulness of that.
[00:52:43] Mike: Mmhmm, yeah.
[00:52:43] Keith: I presume ah parents ah get eventually just sort of recognize that's like a thing you need to do and and become less appalled by it. I wonder, I don't know, I wonder if I had enough anal sex, if I would eventually get to a point where there's like, well, okay, there's this collateral smell thing that's not great, but you know, whatever. That's just the way things go. Or if I would always just be totally grossed out.
[00:53:14] Keith: and
[00:53:14] Mike: I don't think there are a whole lot of people beating off while changing their kids. So like those don't, it's it's like, it's more than that.
[00:53:20] Keith: Yeah.
[00:53:21] Mike: It's more than just tolerating. It's like you have to be physically aroused. There are some people that fetishize, you know, fecophilia and stuff like that.
[00:53:27] Keith: yeah
[00:53:27] Mike: But I think, I think mostly the male hope is, look, she's a woman, she doesn't poop.
[00:53:32] Keith: Yeah.
[00:53:33] Mike: It's connected to that. It's connected to like women being kind of pristine and stuff like that, which creates like an insane expectation for her. And then when this happens, like this is like probably going to affect her for years.
[00:53:45] Mike: Like this is a terrible experience.
[00:53:46] Keith: Yes. Yes.
[00:53:48] Mike: Yeah.
[00:53:49] Keith: Yeah, there was some
[00:53:49] Mike: Like it's traumatic as the ah young people say, she's got trauma now.
[00:53:53] Keith: there was a ah rumor about a girl in my high school and it was something like, yeah, she was on top and yeah, she, she, she had herself and then yeah, the rumor was that she like gathered up her turd or turds in the sheets and like ran out of the house.
[00:54:16] Keith: And, you know, that was just, yeah.
[00:54:17] Mike: Out of the house.
[00:54:19] Keith: I mean, this was just like, you know, a thing we, we, we giggled about in, in high school, but, you know, I think whether whether it was true or not, we, we, we were onto something, which is, but yeah, it's like a, like poop is a pretty,
[00:54:23] Mike: I wonder if it happened though.
[00:54:30] Mike: Yeah.
[00:54:34] Keith: embarrassing thing that like, you know, people don't want to deal with.
[00:54:36] Mike: Yeah.
[00:54:40] Mike: we should We should move on, but i have there was, the rumor in my high school was there was a girl who they, that some guy from another high school stuck forth, was able to stick four fingers inside of her.
[00:54:50] Keith: Hmm.
[00:54:51] Mike: And she's now the principal.
[00:54:53] Keith: Huh.
[00:54:54] Mike: yeah She became the principal, so she.
[00:54:58] Mike: But that's like the one the main thing I know about her. It's like, oh yeah. the like I think basically everybody that knew her would know her. is the it's Yeah, these things follow women.
[00:55:07] Keith: Yeah.
[00:55:07] Mike: You know, so they don't, they don't, uh, yeah, they follow women. So it's kind of rough. Yeah. So whoever that story at your high school was about, was it about a specific person?
[00:55:13] Keith: yeah Oh yeah, I remember her name and I see her on Facebook.
[00:55:17] Mike: That's terrible. That's terrible.
[00:55:19] Keith: She has kids now and stuff, but whenever I see her, it's definitely my the field.
[00:55:21] Mike: You should ask her.
[00:55:25] Keith: It's like basically the only thing I know about her.
[00:55:28] Mike: Wow. Yeah. So same thing. Exactly. Same exact thing.
[00:55:29] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:55:31] Mike: Yeah.
[00:55:32] Keith: Okay. Do you have this thing about the male doctors can't filter out their aesthetical preferences when it comes to female patients?
[00:55:38] Mike: right
[00:55:39] Keith: All right.
[00:55:39] Mike: yes
[00:55:39] Keith: All right. So this person asks, do you also get the impression male doctors can't filter out their aesthetical preferences when it comes to female patients? This is on Mike's favorite subreddit, two X chromosomes, which is a, what are they, what do they call themselves?
[00:55:52] Keith: It's, they don't call themselves the, the neo-feminist.
[00:55:53] Mike: It's a female-dominated space.
[00:55:55] Keith: Yeah. All right. So today I, Oh my God.
[00:55:57] Mike: They hate men. They would hate this show. They don't want us in there reading their questions. like If they found out where they were we were doing this, they would like quitech try and trying to dox us and stuff.
[00:56:06] Keith: Yes.
[00:56:06] Mike: so
[00:56:07] Keith: Yeah, that's true. This is risky territory. We're waiting in here.
[00:56:10] Mike: Love their women so they'll fail.
[00:56:12] Keith: Oh, man. I saw some Norm McDonald anti-female bit he did on the ah Letterman show. It's pretty good.
[00:56:22] Keith: Anyway, all right. So today I had to go to the dentist and because my female dentist was on leave, I went to her replacement who was a male. Little side note, my teeth are considered healthy and straight with the exception of one tooth somewhere at the bottom that is a bit ankle.
[00:56:34] Keith: Okay, this doesn't matter. ah But today, for the first time in 30 years, I heard that 25% of a woman's smile is the bottom teeth, so you should really get that fixed.
[00:56:36] Mike: Yeah.
[00:56:43] Keith: I said I'm okay with how it is, to which he reacted, I don't think you realize the impact of this on your smile. My fiancé of six years never even noticed until I showed him today. He now calls it my rebel tooth l lol.
[00:56:54] Keith: This reminded me of another male doctor a few months ago. where I went to for an ankle problem. His way of phrasing things was weird. Like he told me the operation would leave a small scar. I said I wouldn't mind, to which he replied, yeah, but you are still a woman and women like to show off their legs and even a small scar will be in the way of that. I was thinking, no, it won't. Give me the impression that the way women's legs look is more important than the physical discomfort they may feel.
[00:57:17] Keith: I got other examples, but these are the two recent ones. Maybe they meant well but and thought that they were re they were paraphrasing what they think women feel like that in that situation. But I can't shake off the feeling that they were actually projecting their own preferences on me. But I'm quite anxious during doctor appointments, so maybe the stress makes me more sensitive. Thank you for reading. Okay.
[00:57:36] Keith: ah
[00:57:36] Mike: Well, I mean, to some extent, the guy's just doing a sales pitch, right? I mean, he makes more money. Of course, the the second one was trying to get her not to do the procedure to get the scar on her leg.
[00:57:43] Keith: Right.
[00:57:44] Mike: So it's a sales pitch and an anti-sales pitch. um But I mean, I think the men in these situations are just reacting to the what they've seen from a typical female patient. i don't I'm not sure they would be making that up.
[00:57:53] Keith: Yes.
[00:57:56] Mike: um
[00:57:56] Keith: I think it's possible that there, well, it's not possible. It's probable that there are many doctors out there that are kind of weird and ah would say things that aren't rational.
[00:58:07] Keith: But assuming that these doctors are are not, as this woman suspects, which are which is like weirdly chauvinistic misogynists, I think it's likely that, yeah,
[00:58:18] Keith: the He's had complaints in the past that the scarring left by some sort of orthopedic procedure ah really bummed some of his female patients out.
[00:58:28] Keith: And so that's I think bringing that up, it might just be him doing his job.
[00:58:29] Mike: Mm hmm.
[00:58:35] Keith: And ah i don't I don't know if this is news to this woman, but there are some women out there who are extremely vain. And that's not to say it's a bad thing. They live in a world in which the male gaze and the gaze on them in general is hypercritical. ah See our conversation earlier about ah the skin around your labia.
[00:58:54] Keith: um And so, yeah, I'm not sure he's even wrong in suggesting that ah she may be better served by a little bit of physical discomfort versus the you know mental anguish of of some scarification. Now, it sucks that that's society we would we live in. And again, maybe this doctor is crazy, but it's not necessarily crazy for that doctor to bring it up.
[00:59:16] Mike: Yeah, I mean the, uh, ultimately people have to operate using stereotypes like this. So you're a woman who doesn't care about this stuff.
[00:59:22] Keith: Yes.
[00:59:24] Mike: Okay. I mean, but, but the thing is like this person sees how we're like 25 people a day and you're maybe at the far end of the bell curve, but he doesn't know that. Maybe there should be some way to communicate that.
[00:59:34] Keith: yep
[00:59:36] Mike: um And they're I'm sure there's similar, there's sort of equivalent things the other direction that men face, ah where there's just assumptions made about what we will and won't want.
[00:59:37] Keith: Yep.
[00:59:46] Mike: um I'm not sure. I have to think about like what the specifics were, but it see it strikes me as something that's likely to go both directions. um
[00:59:54] Keith: ah Yeah. Yeah, I...
[00:59:55] Mike: So.
[00:59:58] Keith: I think it is also true that women often experience sexism in a sort of annoying way. And so that they have a bit of a radar up to detect such things is probably healthy, but yet you don't want it to be too sensitive because you may be occasionally getting good advice that is tinged by a sex difference. And and just because it because something is is colored by that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or chauvinist or whatever.
[01:00:27] Mike: Yeah. I mean, people make some, I was thinking of, uh, I have actually, especially in this election season repeatedly had left leaning women accused me of being a Trump person repeatedly actually by different people.
[01:00:41] Keith: That's a bad read on you. You are not a Trump person.
[01:00:44] Mike: Right. And I try and and I say things like, look, I don't like the guy. I don't support him, but it doesn't. So the point is I'm not allowed to have perspectives. If I have perspectives that don't align with what they want, then ah I get bucketed as the standard white male from Tennessee or something like that.
[01:00:59] Mike: And you're like, well, that's pretty, I think, i think that i I think that people, everybody gets hit by stereotypes like this is just how you react to it, how you internalize it. It is annoying. It is annoying for people to make assumptions.
[01:01:09] Mike: And and what sucks about it is even when I say, Hey, I don't like the guy, then I know they don't believe me just like this woman. If she says, look, I don't care about the scar, he's not going to believe her. And so you're like, well, how do I, how do I prove to you that I don't fit the stereotype?
[01:01:19] Keith: Right. Right. Yeah. Well, in this doctor's case, he's probably heard women in the past say they don't care.
[01:01:22] Mike: Um,
[01:01:25] Keith: And then, you know, on the evaluation form, turns out they do.
[01:01:30] Mike: Yeah. Or they want some revision to the surgery or whatever. Like, yeah, the the noisiest people are going to often be these people who kind of fit those stereotypes. So it's, it's, yeah, it's sort of tricky.
[01:01:40] Mike: Yeah. but Anyway, people think that it only, ah yeah, I mean, there's like a victimhood mentality there. People think it only applies to me. I think it happens to everybody in different ways.
[01:01:49] Keith: Yeah.
[01:01:49] Mike: I mean, a more sexual one is there's always the assumption that guys just are chasing pussy all the time. You know,
[01:01:56] Keith: That's true. And to a rough approximation, that's true, but not always true.
[01:01:59] Mike: Well, fair. Right.
[01:02:01] Keith: Well, that's why it's a useful stereotype.
[01:02:01] Mike: Yeah.
[01:02:05] Keith: Yeah.
[01:02:05] Mike: Yeah, that's right. Stereotypes are very useful. They're a good shorthand, but they cause these kind of social challenges that people have to sort of work through.
[01:02:08] Keith: Right.
[01:02:13] Keith: Right. All right. That will do it for this Keith is back episode of your mileage may vary. ah I don't think we've done the readout for a while. I'll do it. You can send us feedback or questions to YMMVPOD at gmail dot.com. Again, that's YMMVPOD at gmail dot.com.
[01:02:30] Keith: We pay $10 for any and all feedback received. We received some feedback recently and ah I haven't paid out, but I will do that today, so stand by. um Just let us know which payment platform you prefer Venmo or PayPal or whatever. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week on Your Mileage Mayberry.

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Episode 181: Riding The Abortion Train, Politics, Anal Explosions, Insensitive Doctors

Episode Transcript