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Episode 184: Longest Dry Spell, Dating Struggles, Candy Crush Addiction, Stuffed Animal Comfort, Male And Female Climaxes

Team YMMV | 10-25-2024 | 1:03:05

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Keith kicks things off with the realization that he's been celibate for half a year and asks Mike for his longest dry spell, opening up a deep dive into the strange, hilarious world of post-college dating before apps were even a thing. Spoiler: the secret to success back then apparently involved nothing short of flashy cars and questionable confidence.

The conversation quickly veers into the psychological battlefield that is dating culture, as the duo debate why some guys lie their way to the top while others (including themselves) end up spinning their wheels. Keith reflects on his struggles breaking into conversations with strangers, while Mike philosophizes on the mysterious charm of "Riz" (after first learning what it is). In an unfiltered chat about awkward social dynamics, they wonder if being a charismatic introvert in your forties is more of a feature than a bug.

Somewhere between debating candy-colored apps and chemical addictions, Keith admits to getting way too into Candy Crush, losing hours and, nearly, his dignity, to the game's addictive spell. Mike, ever the wise advisor, encourages him to uninstall but jokingly suggests that at least with cocaine there’s more excitement (and arguably better stories). The two even suggest a government campaign against mobile game addiction, imagining a "Just Say No" to digital candy. Somewhere, Nancy Reagan is probably nodding along in spirit.

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00:01] Keith: Hello, and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I'm Keith. Allie is traveling, so my lone co-host today is Mike. Hi, Mike.
  • [00:00:14] Mike: Hello Keith.
  • [00:00:16] Keith: um I was thinking on a run yesterday that it has been something like six months since I have last had sex, and I
  • [00:00:27] Mike: Wow.
  • [00:00:31] Keith: was wondering what's the longest stretch you've gone since you were 20 years old without having sex.
  • [00:00:37] Mike: Oh, that's a good question. Uh, since 20, that's a good timeframe. Um, I think it was, um, It'd be not good radio for me to sit here and try to figure, but it's going to be something, it's going to be over a year for sure and at age like 23 maybe.
  • [00:00:50] Keith: Wow.
  • [00:00:58] Mike: And it was particularly, if i you may I digress on it a little bit?
  • [00:01:02] Keith: Yeah, what happened?
  • [00:01:02] Mike: might Might bring up an interesting topic. So I had been ah there's a couple of things. you You leave college, right?
  • [00:01:09] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:01:09] Mike: So you finish college and you lose that kind of social network that you have that you would typically mine for potential partners.
  • [00:01:17] Keith: Right.
  • [00:01:17] Mike: This was before the rise of like internet, you know, app based dating. And so I didn't, so there wasn't something like that. I think, I think at that time there might've been websites you could use ah and or like traditional, like super traditional.
  • [00:01:30] Mike: Like I assume there were, you know, dating services or something that I don't know what the status of that was.
  • [00:01:35] Keith: I remember Yahoo! Personals existed in the early 2000s and late 90s.
  • [00:01:38] Mike: OK. OK.
  • [00:01:41] Keith: And then there was, Match dot.com was actually quite early. I don't remember when it launched.
  • [00:01:46] Mike: OK, so I was not aware of these different ah systems. And also when you're in your early 20s, I think that oh, yeah, so that certainly existed.
  • [00:01:51] Keith: 1995, 1995 for Match dot.com.
  • [00:01:55] Mike: ah But but ah I was not aware of sorry, I think for a guy in his early 20s, it also i wasn't aware of it. And also that I would would sort of would not have thought of it yet.
  • [00:02:06] Mike: And then I had a period of time when I was very busy working on ah some entrepreneurship stuff. And the particular timeframe I'm thinking of was extremely frustrating and confusing because I was wealthy.
  • [00:02:22] Mike: So I had actually a lot of money and I had this experience of like, I would go out, you know, I would go with friends or whatever go places. And this was in San Francisco. Of course, keep in mind that this was a the the period of time during the internet bubble.
  • [00:02:35] Mike: So every guy was claiming that he was wealthy.
  • [00:02:38] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:02:38] Mike: So there was that. So there was just no way like you would have to like buy status symbols, which by the way, is like, I think part of what lies behind guys buying Porsches.
  • [00:02:39] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:02:45] Mike: In fact, I had a co-founder who bought a Porsche 911, specifically for the purpose of breaking through this.
  • [00:02:52] Keith: Huh.
  • [00:02:53] Mike: I did not do that. um And so you would wind up in these strange situations where yeah, every every other guy is lying because they figured out that's not all of them, but I mean, they can lie is the point. ah And um on top of that, um you there's some ah methodology required to figure out how you take that information and actually weaponize it.
  • [00:03:15] Mike: to like get a girlfriend. And that sort of eluded me. like I didn't understand or spend enough time on figuring out what you know what do what do you do here. It's it's all very douchey also.
  • [00:03:27] Mike: like the things I think the things you do are like you go out and buy expensive clothes and stuff. There were things that I didn't really want to do.
  • [00:03:33] Keith: Well, yeah, you can go to a club and, and get a booth, you know, bottle service, but, but.
  • [00:03:40] Mike: Sure. Things like that. Yes. I did. and And to be clear to the audience, like I'm a reasonably attractive white guy, like I'm i'm the like five eleven. Like I wasn't. There's nothing wrong with me.
  • [00:03:50] Mike: It's not like it's not like I'm like a five foot three troll or something like it was that that was all fine.
  • [00:03:50] Keith: Right.
  • [00:03:55] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:03:55] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:03:55] Keith: Given a better strategy, you might have been running, running your way through town.
  • [00:03:58] Mike: Oh, definitely. Well, I was I was constantly in situations where I was confident that if the women in that situation were able to like, if you could stop time and they could just review information about the people that I would sort high, maybe not number one, but I would sort high.
  • [00:04:12] Mike: But there was simply no way for that to happen. And so you would constantly see these people that were obviously losers ah ah doing well. And it's just because they would. Yeah, I mean, like men, men, when they're trying to pick up women, most men are um ah like compulsive liars.
  • [00:04:28] Mike: They just everything they say is a lie.
  • [00:04:28] Keith: Oh, hold on. I don't actually understand your complaint here. So ah first of all, things haven't really changed now.
  • [00:04:36] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:04:38] Mike: In what regard?
  • [00:04:40] Keith: There's not some way that you could, there's not just some way that you can wear a badge that says like, I have money.
  • [00:04:40] Mike: For me or for society?
  • [00:04:47] Mike: Okay, go on.
  • [00:04:48] Keith: So this isn't something that was unique to you in your twenties.
  • [00:04:50] Mike: Oh, sure. But I mean, but but it's much easier. I mean, for starters, ah you have things like dating apps that ah make it yeah so there's a conversation that happens with the person that makes it really easy to break through this. I know, for example, that you do this with the patter when you discuss this with a potential new partner on a dating app, you'll talk to them about your travel.
  • [00:05:15] Mike: Or, you know, the things you like to do, like it's pretty easy to signal, right?
  • [00:05:17] Keith: Yeah, but it's not because, no, it's not because it's not like I have all these matches and I get to signal to them how great I am.
  • [00:05:20] Mike: What college you went to, you know.
  • [00:05:27] Keith: the Matches are infrequent and figuring out a way to say, also the women,
  • [00:05:28] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:05:36] Keith: Women on dating apps don't think that they're looking for money, or at least they don't consciously think it. So if if I said something that signaled it, that might be more off-putting in some way.
  • [00:05:41] Mike: That's true.
  • [00:05:47] Keith: But the thing that I really wanted to say is, okay, ah I'll accept it as a given or or stipulate for this discussion that, sure, plenty of people lie about their accomplishments, but They're having success. The only difference is that you're not lying. Like why were they having success and and you weren't?
  • [00:06:08] Mike: Oh, you're you're which I think the there's a you're you're basically just asking why I wasn't lying.
  • [00:06:13] Keith: No, you you didn't need to lie. why weren' Like what were they doing to have the success?
  • [00:06:17] Mike: Oh, sure. Uh, I mean, the, I mean, I think it depends on, it depends, it depends situationally, but you know, people, people can always say a lie that is greater than your truth.
  • [00:06:31] Mike: Right.
  • [00:06:31] Keith: Hmm.
  • [00:06:32] Mike: So they'll simply say something that's just like preposterous, but it's like when I, uh, when I was in high school, uh, there was this guy who subsequently became an alcoholic and is now dead.
  • [00:06:42] Mike: Uh, but he was very charismatic, very popular guy. And he told everybody his senior year that he'd gotten into Harvard. He did not get into Harvard. He just lied. ah But look, it worked. Like he had a great senior year, like this guy, he and he really did this. And then he had to come up with some weird retcon of why he he went to ah college in Ohio or something. But yeah, he had to retcon why he chose that place over Harvard. So he never admitted he didn't get into Harvard. He just claimed later that, well, I chose this, which is just ridiculous.
  • [00:07:15] Keith: I mean, right, right, right.
  • [00:07:15] Mike: um I think even in like the yearbook, it like said what you know because they make the yearbook before people have decided what college they're going to, I think he actually had it at Harvard or this other place. And it's just yeah so it's just like, what's going on here?
  • [00:07:26] Mike: and like no but And actually, to be fair, I don't know that he didn't get in, but I know he didn't get in. like it's he He wasn't in the right classes and stuff.
  • [00:07:31] Keith: Sure.
  • [00:07:34] Mike: and But but this is this is the thing. People could just tell the big lie um and have like the the sort of right pattern. And I think that it's young women just can't tell the difference.
  • [00:07:43] Keith: I think. Hmm. I'm not sure the problem is not being able to say the right things because I think you are a fairly charming person. I think the problem is getting in front of people.
  • [00:07:58] Keith: And I think it's
  • [00:08:00] Mike: Well, that's, yeah, sure, go ahead.
  • [00:08:03] Keith: Like having the confidence to to go into a situation and just approach women is a skill that I don't have. I should have it. I almost never get rejected when I talk to people. um But it's hard for me to like just go to a bar and talk to people. yeah Maybe it's not that hard. but Well, it's not something I do very much.
  • [00:08:27] Keith: ah And so I'm wondering if the problem for, you know, young twenties you wasn't that you didn't have the qualifications or even the Riz it's that you weren't getting in front of people in the ways that some of these other people were.
  • [00:08:45] Mike: What's a Riz?
  • [00:08:47] Keith: but It's just a Gen Z word for charisma.
  • [00:08:50] Mike: oh Oh, right. I forgot. Thanks. ah Yeah, I mean, I think I think that's certainly right. I think that's part of it because the I mean, I think it's a sort of a learned ah behavior ah learned from being in situations repeatedly where like you you see you sort of see how it works. So you're like, oh,
  • [00:09:09] Mike: that there's no, this is complicated because ah there's there's there's no way in kind of traditional social settings, like a bar, whatever, like going out and doing something with friends or whatever, ah there's not much, there's there's very little room to sort of communicate. This is why I imagine that like this is something that's, that I heard your point about not matching very many people on a dating app, but I imagine that helps some because then like the default is you are in a one on one conversation with the person.
  • [00:09:34] Keith: Yeah,
  • [00:09:40] Mike: And so that's sort of positive.
  • [00:09:43] Keith: yeah but.
  • [00:09:46] Keith: I really, I mean, I'm basically a semi-professional online data and, or at least I have been in periods of my life and, you know, I'll be on four plus different apps and I'll be putting plenty of time in every day. And I, it would be a rare day when somebody that I was very excited about would be engaged in a conversation with me.
  • [00:10:14] Mike: And that's because you don't match a person like that. you're You're like, you never get through the front door, right?
  • [00:10:18] Keith: Right. Like you just don't get enough matches.
  • [00:10:20] Mike: Yeah, that makes sense.
  • [00:10:21] Keith: And even if you do get matches and message them, they have hundreds of matches. And so cutting through that is more a function of luck than ability. So there's something, there's something that, that the, that some men have, and I don't understand exactly what it is.
  • [00:10:31] Mike: Yeah, that makes sense.
  • [00:10:41] Keith: Maybe it's a shamelessness or. that they're, that they're getting more swings at the bat swings of the bat.
  • [00:10:50] Mike: That's probably right. I mean, yeah, basically just ah somebody who's willing to go up and talk to every girl in a place and of yeah yeah that just gives you more swings or more at bats, as you said.
  • [00:11:00] Keith: So why, I don't really feel like I'm not willing to do that. and I feel like when I go to bars for starters, I'm 44 years old. When I go to a bar. Most of the people are young and in a group with, you know, other people and it's, it doesn't, it's not the most inviting thing to go over and interject myself into.
  • [00:11:23] Mike: That's right.
  • [00:11:25] Keith: Uh, but and is this would be Casanova just, uh, pierces through that.
  • [00:11:33] Mike: Yes. I mean, you've known people that do this, right? I mean, I had actually had a a roommate in that era of my life who was quite good at this.
  • [00:11:36] Keith: I have.
  • [00:11:40] Mike: He's now ah very overweight, but at the time he looked a little a little bit like ah Christopher Reeve from ah Superman, I mean, not not after the accident before the accident.
  • [00:11:47] Keith: Oh, wow.
  • [00:11:51] Keith: There's a new movie about that.
  • [00:11:51] Mike: ah So he was he was an attractive guy and had been a um a football player in college, a linebacker, so like a well built guy.
  • [00:11:57] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:11:59] Keith: Okay. But this sounds like, I mean, that's not controlling for all factors because, uh, you're not a bad looking person, but you don't look like a college football player.
  • [00:11:59] Mike: And yeah, he
  • [00:12:08] Mike: Right. he Oh, yeah, that's true. But I think that but there's a feedback loop. So bear with me for a second. I mean, I believe strongly there's a feedback loop that women have, which is that when a woman is above a certain level of trackiveness, certain, just say attractiveness, but I think breast size matters a lot.
  • [00:12:13] Keith: All right.
  • [00:12:24] Mike: realistically. I think there's a point where while I think they have the same IQ, same capacity, I think that their women do not develop that intelligence. They do not develop their abilities because there's just no point. They get so much attention, so much of what they kind of naturally want.
  • [00:12:40] Mike: that there's just no reason to pursue other things. And I think there's a similar thing that happens with guys, kind of the opposite direction. When a guy is more than a certain amount, athletic, attractive, whatever, he just becomes used to people giving him positive feedback when he kind of talks to them or kind of injects into a conversation.
  • [00:12:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:12:57] Mike: And so then it becomes a very comfortable thing for him to do. And this this gentleman was definitely of that ilk, right? I mean, I mean i remember um I lived with him ah two different times, and the first time ah we lived in a kind of a suburban area, and this is true. He did not make this story up, although for someone like you, Keith, this won't be that weird because you have stories sort of like this. He was running out on the road. He had a woman stop the car, roll down the window, and basically asked to give him a blowjob.
  • [00:13:22] Keith: Wow.
  • [00:13:23] Mike: And he said, okay. And I met her like it happened. This is not a fake story.
  • [00:13:27] Keith: huh
  • [00:13:27] Mike: And you go, okay. Like that's not, I mean, that one probably has never happened to you. You've had a man maybe offer you a blown shot ball, honey.
  • [00:13:33] Keith: i I have more than once, too many ah my for my taste.
  • [00:13:38] Mike: But I sort of, I've never had a man or a woman make such an offer to me and I can't imagine it happening, but this gentleman, that definitely happens. You're like, okay, this is something, this is the kind of thing that builds someone up so that they feel totally comfortable approaching people in a public situation.
  • [00:13:44] Keith: Huh.
  • [00:13:49] Keith: Yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, so for him, when he's at the bar and he's seeing this group of women, he's not as apprehensive to approach because his set of experiences building up to that point have sort of
  • [00:13:59] Mike: They should want to talk to me. Yeah.
  • [00:14:03] Keith: ah guided him toward that being a reasonable thing to do.
  • [00:14:05] Mike: Right. I mean, that also probably, I mean, to took to finish the parallel, that probably also encourages a guy not to develop his IQ, to be fair. So, like, attractive people are probably usually, like, if I would bet that attractive people, yeah, have lower ah attainment compared to their IQ or something like that, um intellectual attainment. Because, yeah, why would he? Why would he bother? I mean, he's going to get pussy. So, mission accomplished.
  • [00:14:32] Keith: Right.
  • [00:14:35] Keith: Okay. But, okay. But maybe we're discovering here that, okay. So so this, this, uh, linebacker, it's easier for him because he's had the right feedback telling him that this is the right thing to do.
  • [00:14:48] Keith: But your, in my experience is we haven't necessarily had as much positive feedback, but we should try to overcome that because it's likely to go.
  • [00:14:48] Mike: Right.
  • [00:14:58] Keith: Okay. because because of our charisma and financial accomplishments and so forth.
  • [00:15:03] Mike: That's probably right. That's probably right. I mean, you might as well just ah just go ahead and break into conversations. Although, I mean, I did some amount of that during this period of time we're talking about and it was not particularly successful. I mean, I actually thought about this, came up with essentially the same idea and then implemented it and it.
  • [00:15:22] Mike: The problem is that like as Reddit says, rule one is be attractive, rule two is don't be unattractive. And like there's a bar below which the thing about it is if you approach a group of like five women at a bar, there's this intensely social situation that arises. So they ah they're seeing each other talk to you. so if they're So they're not asking themselves necessarily, could I imagine having sex with this guy or dating him? They're asking, would I be made fun of by my friends if I did this?
  • [00:15:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:15:50] Mike: And so it's so that that's another place where maybe a dating app is better. Of course, the strategy that you can apply, and this one I didn't apply so much, but is to, let's say they're five women, you could talk to the least attractive one.
  • [00:16:04] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:16:04] Mike: And that probably kind of saves you a little bit from that.
  • [00:16:07] Keith: Yeah, I mean, I'm curious about this because I think you and I are both good at making interesting conversation and groups like I've had the experience with you where like we sit down at ah at a lunch table with other folks and you'll immediately say something sort of provocative and interesting and everybody will be sort of engaged.
  • [00:16:26] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:16:26] Keith: And people want to talk to you. And so to the to the extent that there's a skill, which is impressing people with conversational ability, you're definitely elite at it.
  • [00:16:39] Keith: And I think I'm pretty good myself. And so, yeah, maybe I should be more courageous.
  • [00:16:41] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:16:45] Mike: It's very hard also when you're, it's look, it's very hard to approach. Like when you're 20, say three years old as a guy and you're in a situation, say where drinking is allowed. Could be a bar, it could be a restaurant, whatever, could be just a party. The oldest, sorry, the youngest woman that could be there is 21. So let's say they're checking IDs in the US.
  • [00:17:06] Mike: So and you're not going to probably approach a woman that's 30 because that's she's old. So you're only dealing with this and incredibly attractive set of women.
  • [00:17:16] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:17:16] Mike: And so it's pretty hard. Right. It's a difficult ah environment. I would imagine that as a 35 year old man. going into a party and talking to 35-year-old women is much easier because it's just they're just not it's it's they don't they're not like the world-beatingly attractive in the same way the 22-year-old is.
  • [00:17:33] Mike: and that Yeah, they just have all the power.
  • [00:17:33] Keith: yeah
  • [00:17:34] Mike: and That's another thing is like I don't like being in situations where I'm completely not in control. and like they're just yeah It's just annoying because they they have all the power in the situation. it's just That's not that fun for me.
  • [00:17:45] Mike: But I recognize that probably the right strategy for a young man is to just
  • [00:17:45] Keith: yeah
  • [00:17:49] Mike: get over that basically. Just to say, look, I'm going to ignore my impulses for the next two hours and just do this thing and nothing's going to happen. It's not like the woman's going to attack you. I mean, don't hit on a woman that has a guy with her, probably, but.
  • [00:18:02] Keith: yeah Yeah, I don't know. I've been thinking about it because since I've returned from my travels, um I've gone out to ah wine bars around my apartment a couple of times with the express intent of like trying to practice talking to people.
  • [00:18:19] Keith: And I haven't really done it once. and But I mean, the situation is usually I look around the room and you know most people are couples.
  • [00:18:23] Mike: Huh.
  • [00:18:30] Keith: And then those that aren't will be like sort of three girlfriends huddled in intense conversation with each other.
  • [00:18:31] Mike: Right.
  • [00:18:38] Keith: And like, you know, there's like not even,
  • [00:18:42] Mike: Well, is your goal is your goal to get sex or is your goal to Maybe your goal, if your goal was not to get sex, it would be more interesting and in the sense of like, if your goal was just to have a conversation with someone and be like, well, you're not, then you're not actually hurting them in any way.
  • [00:18:57] Mike: You're like, I, I don't want sex.
  • [00:18:58] Keith: My goal is rarely to have sex. Like it's mostly just for the sport of the conversation.
  • [00:19:01] Mike: Yeah. Hmm.
  • [00:19:05] Keith: But maybe if I thought of it that way more, it would, it would seem.
  • [00:19:05] Mike: Yeah. I mean, right.
  • [00:19:12] Keith: But still, it's, I mean, you know, let's say you're at a wine bar. It's hard because we're men. And if a woman ever approached us, it's always a delight. There's like no situation where we would be like, please go away.
  • [00:19:23] Mike: Right. Right.
  • [00:19:25] Keith: um But yeah, if you're like these three girls and this 44 year old dude just sort of walks over, I mean, you're ah probably early thirties or something, you know, it's like the wine bar, typical patron.
  • [00:19:34] Mike: How old are the girls? It's not terrible. Okay. Right.
  • [00:19:43] Keith: Their reasonable reaction is to going to be to immediately erect a bunch of a bunch of defenses.
  • [00:19:49] Mike: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
  • [00:19:50] Keith: And so we could practice.
  • [00:19:51] Mike: I'll tell you, Keith, i would be I would be willing to go to a wine bar with you and ah try doing that.
  • [00:19:58] Mike: I have a wedding ring on, so that might actually be a positive, because then it's like totally not, um
  • [00:20:04] Keith: Yes, that would be helpful for me.
  • [00:20:06] Mike: yeah, yeah. I think that, I would say this, at this point in my life, I don't care anymore, so that wouldn't, and also, it's I would care if I was talking to 22-year-olds, now for two reasons.
  • [00:20:19] Mike: including just the preposterous age difference. But, uh, I do to some extent because I have a daughter that's a teenager.
  • [00:20:21] Keith: Right. Well, you don't even speak the language. I mean, if you you don't even know what Riz is, that and that's like a fairly basic vocab word.
  • [00:20:32] Mike: So I think like I have, I have some, like there's some, but but I mean, I don't really want to deploy that knowledge in in that way. Uh, but for a, uh, thirties person, it's not quite as difficult anyhow.
  • [00:20:44] Keith: If I said very demure, very mindful to you, would you have a touch point for that?
  • [00:20:52] Mike: No.
  • [00:20:53] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:20:54] Mike: Why? What is that? Is that another little expression?
  • [00:20:56] Keith: Many of our listeners are now laughing at you. ah It's just ah another Gen Z meme.
  • [00:20:59] Mike: Oh, really?
  • [00:21:01] Keith: and
  • [00:21:02] Mike: Is it from a movie or a book or something?
  • [00:21:05] Keith: Nah, there was some TikToker that was talking about her makeup, but then there was a whole series of response reels and TikToks where people...
  • [00:21:14] Mike: Okay. I did. I mean, I, when I was using TikTok up until like nine months ago, I would have known these sorts of things, but maybe this one came out since then.
  • [00:21:22] Keith: it It is, it was from the summer, I believe.
  • [00:21:23] Mike: Yeah, so I mean, I've chosen not to use TikTok because I realized it was terrible for my mental health, and it is. So the people that are laughing at me, let me assure you, the last laugh is going to be on you by by your psychiatrist later.
  • [00:21:34] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I think they could, people could thread a thin needle and be like, well, I don't watch TikTok myself, but I still am aware of like modern names, but yeah, it's a, I don't watch TikTok.
  • [00:21:46] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There'd be no, look, I don't, I mean, uh, I don't hang out with 22 year olds. I do, but I, like I said, I can, um, if you mentioned something that a teenager would, would say, uh, then I might know that.
  • [00:21:59] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:21:59] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:22:00] Keith: All right. Well, maybe you and I need to go out in the town. I'm not sure I can trust you not to turn any conversations into art projects.
  • [00:22:08] Mike: Well, why would you care? If your goal is just to approach, then you wouldn't care.
  • [00:22:12] Keith: That's true. If I'm just there to get the practice.
  • [00:22:13] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, that would actually be fun because you wouldn't in the past.
  • [00:22:16] Keith: Although.
  • [00:22:16] Mike: Yes, you've become irritated at me because of cock blocking you from sex. But if your goal is not sex, then it doesn't then it's great because there's no then you won't get irritated, presumably, although.
  • [00:22:24] Keith: Right. But I can still get embarrassed. I mean, there's there's a gap between me getting embarrassed and you cock blocking me.
  • [00:22:31] Mike: Well, maybe that's the thing you should. I mean, you know, when people have anxiety, I mean, ultimately, embarrassment is a form of anxiety, I think. you know, exposure is the therapy, right? So maybe being exposed to that, it's it's like, do you have trouble watching TV shows?
  • [00:22:44] Mike: Like you probably don't know what Three's company is, but like these shows where, you know what Three's company is?
  • [00:22:49] Keith: No, but I can give you a ah show that, of course I know what Three's company is, but I i didn't watch it.
  • [00:22:50] Mike: Oh my God. Go ahead.
  • [00:22:55] Keith: um
  • [00:22:55] Mike: What's one that makes you uncomfortable?
  • [00:22:56] Keith: Uh, curb your enthusiasm like the whole show is Larry David behaving awkwardly.
  • [00:22:58] Mike: Oh, okay. Sure. Yeah, in order to like I've learned, it's actually a learned skill. I used to have cringe and like have to for those kind of shows and I've learned not to because I've learned that it's sort of, you know what it's like?
  • [00:23:09] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:23:12] Mike: It's like when women learn that, you know, they say, oh, I don't want to go too far because I feel like I'm going to need to pee. And they learn that going through that feeling is how you get to the orgasm.
  • [00:23:19] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:23:22] Mike: It's the same thing. If you, if you just sit there and let the uncomfortable thing happen, then you have a nice funny moment because right after that is when the funny thing happens.
  • [00:23:30] Keith: Right.
  • [00:23:30] Mike: So I've learned that. So similarly, you could become more, because ultimately the thing you're afraid of when you when you consider approaching someone like that is and but being embarrassed.
  • [00:23:32] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:23:44] Keith: Yeah. I guess it's more embarrassment than rejection. but or I don't know. I don't but really have many experiences of being rejected. And so like, I don't know.
  • [00:23:58] Keith: if that's what I'm worried about.
  • [00:23:58] Mike: Well, you only miss the shots you, what is it?
  • [00:23:59] Keith: But I do have many experiences of being embarrassed.
  • [00:24:02] Mike: you you ah You miss all the shots you don't take, which is a quote from Michael Scott from Wayne Gretzky.
  • [00:24:05] Keith: Right. Right. From Wayne Gretzky.
  • [00:24:08] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:24:09] Keith: From Mike.
  • [00:24:09] Mike: You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That's the quote.
  • [00:24:11] Keith: Right.
  • [00:24:12] Mike: Is that a meme?
  • [00:24:14] Keith: It is because the office sort of.
  • [00:24:14] Mike: No.
  • [00:24:18] Mike: I'll tell you, the ah like so ah famously, ah Billie Eilish, do you know who that is?
  • [00:24:22] Keith: I do.
  • [00:24:24] Mike: so She did a um ah video, like an interview with Rainn Wilson. Rainn Wilson, is that his name? The the the guy who played Dwight.
  • [00:24:30] Keith: Yeah. Dwight.
  • [00:24:31] Mike: the ah Dwight is the most important character in that show.
  • [00:24:34] Keith: Hmm.
  • [00:24:34] Mike: ah
  • [00:24:36] Keith: Hot take, but probably right.
  • [00:24:37] Mike: I think most and think a lot of people agree with that. Of course, like Michael Scott's very important, but Dwight, is like i think the he's like the Kramer. right It's very important to have that that character.
  • [00:24:44] Keith: Yeah. Yes.
  • [00:24:45] Mike: Everyone remembers.
  • [00:24:46] Keith: Yep.
  • [00:24:46] Mike: Anyway, he did an interview where he he basically quizzed her. on because She watched it obsessively as a young teenager or something. and so i found ah Unrelated to Billie Eilish, I found that my extensive knowledge of The Office actually is winning with teenagers because yeah like yeah because I like that show so much.
  • [00:25:02] Keith: Oh, for sure, Mike. It is teens' love. Yeah, there was ah there was a period where where friends was the hot show, and that's what all the kids were watching, or like rewatching in syndication, or not even on syndication, they were watching online somehow.
  • [00:25:06] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:25:11] Mike: Right.
  • [00:25:13] Mike: Right.
  • [00:25:15] Keith: And now it's the office. Like kids like teenagers and and people in their early 20s will be like, oh, you know, I really like the office.
  • [00:25:17] Mike: Yeah. Like I've, I've, uh, gone.
  • [00:25:22] Keith: It's like, okay.
  • [00:25:23] Mike: Right. Yeah. So it's good. Yeah. If you can memorize a bunch of the jokes or just watch it enough to know a bunch of the jokes, it's good.
  • [00:25:32] Keith: um The thing I don't like about it is I went to Cornell and there's this character, Andy Bernard, who is obsessed with having gone to Cornell.
  • [00:25:38] Mike: Andy, he's the worst character. Yes.
  • [00:25:42] Keith: And so the first thing that young people say when
  • [00:25:43] Mike: Yeah. And he's the worst character. Yeah. Go on.
  • [00:25:49] Keith: I say the word Cornell is you know Andy Bernard.
  • [00:25:52] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:25:52] Keith: And it's like, yep.
  • [00:25:56] Keith: um I'm sort of embarrassed of Cornell. I feel like it's you know one of the lamer IVs.
  • [00:26:01] Mike: It is the lamest Ivy.
  • [00:26:02] Keith: I don't think that's true.
  • [00:26:03] Mike: That's a well, what do you think is the lamest Ivy?
  • [00:26:06] Keith: Maybe Brown or Dartmouth.
  • [00:26:09] Mike: Maybe Brown, maybe. Dartmouth I think is better for some reason.
  • [00:26:15] Keith: I think Cornell rates ranks higher than both.
  • [00:26:16] Mike: I don't know. I think that's where the first computer was going. Oh, that yeah, this has nothing to do with, and but besides rankings for things like that don't mean anything and have become utterly meaningless in the age of chat GPT where the machine knows all.
  • [00:26:31] Keith: Would you expect the engineering school at like Harvard? Does Harvard have an engineering school?
  • [00:26:37] Mike: Yeah, of course.
  • [00:26:38] Keith: Okay. And would you expect it to be better than Cornell's?
  • [00:26:41] Mike: Yes, because the people are smarter.
  • [00:26:43] Keith: The professors are more accomplished.
  • [00:26:47] Mike: Not in a meaningful way. I mean, even the professors like, you know, surprising when I was in high school, I
  • [00:26:51] Keith: Oh, you think you think the knock-on effects of being around other smarter people makes it.
  • [00:26:52] Mike: ah
  • [00:26:56] Mike: That's all that matters. Schools.
  • [00:26:56] Keith: Yeah, okay.
  • [00:26:57] Mike: So this is a mistake that people make when they evaluate schools and it's tiresome.
  • [00:26:57] Keith: Yeah, you're probably right.
  • [00:27:01] Mike: It's it's sort of a liberal Democrat meme that, oh, you know, this school's good. The school's bad. Teachers facility, something like that. The only thing that matters the is the intelligence and capabilities of the students.
  • [00:27:12] Mike: All the teachers are around the same. And the thing I was going to say is like, yeah.
  • [00:27:15] Keith: or maybe even get worse as you go up the scale because they focus less on teaching and more on the research.
  • [00:27:19] Mike: Could be lazy. Yeah, it could be. I don't even think that matters because I think it's mostly the and that this is why, like, I think that my hot take is that chat GPT is a real threat to universities and colleges because the smartest kids look, if you want to learn, uh, you know, quantum electrodynamics, just sit down with chat GPT and talk about it for, for a hundred hours.
  • [00:27:38] Keith: Yeah, and ask good questions, right.
  • [00:27:40] Mike: Yeah. And you're going to learn it. You have it to assign you problems, work on them, show your answer. It'll tell you what's wrong with it. Like, why would you have, and and and you're never going to get someone that smart to to give you the time of day.
  • [00:27:51] Keith: Yeah, there's something about the accountability of being surrounded by a bunch of other people that are going through the same gauntlet.
  • [00:27:55] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:27:58] Mike: Sure, but mostly college is about beer and rape. So yeah.
  • [00:28:02] Keith: Yeah, and at Cornell, suicide. All right, let's move on. Uh, do we want to talk about Candy Crush versus Cocaine?
  • [00:28:11] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:28:12] Keith: All right.
  • [00:28:12] Mike: So you had Candy Crush, you uninstalled it.
  • [00:28:12] Keith: So yeah, well, two weeks ago I installed it and. I'd been hesitant to do so for for years, a decade, even maybe, because I was worried that I would get addicted to it.
  • [00:28:28] Keith: And it really is famously one of the most addictive games and they have all these mechanics in it that really pull you in.
  • [00:28:40] Keith: And sure enough, I think
  • [00:28:40] Mike: I think I've played it before, but very briefly, it didn't addict me, but go on. Yeah.
  • [00:28:46] Mike: I actually should do it. I'll take a note to play Candy Crush just to see.
  • [00:28:48] Keith: You should, I mean, ah you know, you of course remember the the cookie clicker incident, which is...
  • [00:28:49] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:28:53] Mike: Cookie Clicker is very addictive. I like cookie. I actually make, I kind of want to play it again.
  • [00:28:57] Keith: Did you introduce it to me or did I introduce it to you?
  • [00:28:59] Mike: I'm not sure, but that, that game, it's
  • [00:29:01] Keith: My recollection is I was playing it and you, you know, justifiably mocked me and then got it hooks into you.
  • [00:29:06] Mike: probably right. started playing. Like the ah Amazon Echo incident where you you got one right when they came out, I mocked you and now I have like 37 of them in my house.
  • [00:29:12] Keith: Yes. Yeah.
  • [00:29:14] Keith: yeah
  • [00:29:18] Mike: the ah It wasn't actually Cookie Clicker, it was Clicker Heroes that we spent some time on.
  • [00:29:18] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:29:22] Keith: Oh, that's right. Right.
  • [00:29:24] Mike: um Yeah.
  • [00:29:25] Keith: But the point is i I don't take it as a truism that you're not susceptible susceptible to these addiction mechanics.
  • [00:29:31] Mike: That's right. I'll try it out. I don't think I... There's something about, but anyway, so Candy Crush, you have to, I i don't actually know how you play it. I believe you, you're given a grid of candies. Sorry, it's like, it's like bananas and stuff, right?
  • [00:29:43] Keith: Yep. Well, it's candies.
  • [00:29:45] Mike: Bananas aren't candies, but okay.
  • [00:29:47] Keith: It's not bananas.
  • [00:29:47] Mike: They're, okay, fine. They're like colored fruit candies.
  • [00:29:50] Keith: Yeah, they there are there's the sure.
  • [00:29:52] Mike: Okay. And, and the goal is you can move, you can swap the places of two of them and you're trying to get them next to each other and then they sort of explode and then the space opens up and they fall, right?
  • [00:30:02] Mike: The ones above fall.
  • [00:30:02] Keith: Right. And then there's a sort of a random number generator that refills the the empty spaces.
  • [00:30:03] Mike: Is that correct?
  • [00:30:06] Mike: Right. And then you just keep doing that and you can lose if you run out of.
  • [00:30:10] Keith: Oh, you keep doing it and you keep doing it and you keep doing it.
  • [00:30:13] Mike: OK, all right.
  • [00:30:15] Keith: And then there's levels and you progress. Anyway, I progressed to around level 400. I don't really want to say how many hours that took because it's embarrassing.
  • [00:30:24] Mike: Probably 40 or something, yeah.
  • [00:30:26] Keith: And anyone who's played it will know that getting to level 400 in the period of about a week is deeply shameful. ah And I am proud to report that I didn't give them any money, but Yeah, I mean, you just get to the point where every time I touched my phone, I wanted to check to see if I had more lives so that I could clear some more candy.
  • [00:30:48] Keith: And I became sort of self loathing about this. And I mentioned to a mutual friend of ours that I'd been doing it. And he has been afflicted with the candy crush disease for for years now, and not to the same extent.
  • [00:31:01] Mike: He only plays the same level though.
  • [00:31:02] Keith: Yeah. Well, anyway, he said, I should just do cocaine. There's more dignity to it.
  • [00:31:08] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:31:08] Keith: And I thought that was a really prescient thing to say because no, because I'm i'm just doing this thing that engages my brain ah and it and it's like this ah addictive engagement and it it does light up your mind.
  • [00:31:11] Mike: Cause you're doing cocaine.
  • [00:31:23] Keith: it's It it's you know requires your focus and you know there's sound and lights and it's it's sort of interesting, but ultimately the time just goes by and you've accomplished nothing.
  • [00:31:34] Keith: And I've never tried cocaine, but I'm assuming so it is with cocaine, like it makes everything a bit more interesting. And then when you start coming down, you want some more, and then you want some more, and then you want some more.
  • [00:31:45] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:31:47] Keith: And at least with cocaine, you have the possibility of an interesting experience.
  • [00:31:52] Mike: Yeah, people view Candy Crush as safer or something like that. um I think I think that the I think eventually the government is going to have to step in and have things like the the Nancy Reagan campaign from the 1980s, the just say no campaign for for things like Candy Crush.
  • [00:31:58] Keith: I don't know.
  • [00:32:11] Mike: I think they're going to be and I think they'll have to step in because There are whole segments of society, particularly young people, who are just basically dropping out of society because of this stuff.
  • [00:32:20] Keith: yeah Yeah, get onto public transportation.
  • [00:32:20] Mike: They're not doing anything.
  • [00:32:23] Keith: And you know the first thing is you get on and you look around and every single person is staring down at their phone. So that's bad enough.
  • [00:32:28] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:32:29] Keith: But half of them are playing some sort of game. And these companies like King and Zynga, Zynga maybe owns King. In any case, these companies have figured out the right rate to parcel out rewards to maximally keep people coming back.
  • [00:32:45] Mike: Right. So they're just addicted.
  • [00:32:45] Keith: and Yeah, I mean, it's you know, it's like giving the ah the morphine drip to the to the mice.
  • [00:32:53] Mike: i ah So, you know, I learned from some African-American children how to do a flip in the subway here in the Bay area and Bart.
  • [00:33:00] Keith: Oh.
  • [00:33:01] Mike: So you can grab, they have these straps that hang down from the the bars.
  • [00:33:03] Keith: Oh, like a penny dropper. That's what we called it when we were kids.
  • [00:33:06] Mike: A panty dropper.
  • [00:33:07] Keith: Penny, penny, penny, because when you flip the pennies fall out of your pockets.
  • [00:33:08] Mike: What is? Okay. Yeah. So you you basically have to like kind of lift yourself up and then walk across the ceiling and then flat fall back down.
  • [00:33:15] Keith: right yes uh i have never tried it on bard but hey i've done it at a jungle gym i know it's amazing they're just
  • [00:33:15] Mike: Okay. So you know how to do this flip?
  • [00:33:20] Mike: Okay. So I like to do it on BART sometimes when we're going under the San Francisco Bay, it's about a seven minute between stations and you know, there's no police anywhere to be seen. I've done it, so I've done it repeatedly and I've noticed that the people don't look up from their phones while I'm fucking doing flips in front of them.
  • [00:33:36] Mike: And I'm like not, I'm like a middle aged man. Like it's, it's not normal. What's happening. Like, sure.
  • [00:33:40] Keith: It's not, it's not just these game apps. Like I know that there's people on the Instagram team that try to figure out the colors that maximally make people feel engaged when they scroll and they, they figure out the right size. They AB test everything to get it maximally addicting. Like they there's some real, uh,
  • [00:34:02] Keith: malice on the part of the, of the developers here.
  • [00:34:05] Mike: Sure. Yeah. I mean, look, they're making money. I mean, there you could because as as you've mentioned, there there are mechanics where people can pay to like resolve a difficult level in Candy Crush, which is sort of like paying your drug dealer.
  • [00:34:07] Keith: They are.
  • [00:34:13] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:34:16] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:34:16] Mike: I mean, so that's the thing.
  • [00:34:16] Keith: I'm thankful I never did that.
  • [00:34:17] Mike: I think, I think maybe I could argue that it's equivalent to cocaine, right? I mean, there's just, I mean, cocaine, a positive was it was made by mother nature, right? Well, it's an evolved thing.
  • [00:34:29] Mike: Uh, I'm not sure why the coca leaf has such a wonderful chemical in it.
  • [00:34:33] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:34:33] Mike: Uh, whereas candy crush was made by a malicious third party to, to addict you. You know, so, so maybe the cocaine is better in the sense that you're not falling prey to some kind of scheme.
  • [00:34:45] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:34:47] Mike: So anyway, you uninstalled Candy Crush.
  • [00:34:48] Keith: I did.
  • [00:34:49] Mike: ah
  • [00:34:50] Keith: I'm free. And I didn't just uninstall it. There's a feature that's about 17 clicks through labyrinth menus in the app where they can actually delete your progress so that if you reinstall the app, you won't be back where you were.
  • [00:35:05] Keith: You have to restart from the beginning.
  • [00:35:06] Mike: Can I ask you a question?
  • [00:35:07] Keith: And so I did that.
  • [00:35:08] Mike: What do you, what do you think is the right outfit to wear out to this wine bar? Is it like a suit?
  • [00:35:15] Mike: I'm trying to imagine.
  • [00:35:15] Keith: Uh, I saw the first season all the way through.
  • [00:35:16] Mike: I feel like I feel like I was talking to my wife about this the other day and and it was like what? What? Yeah, what do you mean? It was because we were. Have you seen this TV show? Love is blind. OK, so there's these.
  • [00:35:28] Mike: Yeah, these people who can't see each other there and they talk a lot and then they. Is sort of adolescent romances, they and then they get engaged without seeing each other and then only like 20% of them actually get married, but some do.
  • [00:35:41] Mike: after they see each other. Anyway, the guys are always wearing like wife beaters, a little bit of like pasta sauce on them when they can't see each other.
  • [00:35:42] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:35:48] Mike: And then they wear a suit when they meet, right? When they can see each other.
  • [00:35:51] Keith: Well,
  • [00:35:52] Mike: And I asked her like, why are they wearing suits? And she's like, that's what a guy, that's how a guy looks best. And I was like, oh, huh, I thought I looked the best in a wife beater with pasta sauce.
  • [00:35:57] Keith: this brings up something else I want to talk about, which is what I should wear for Halloween.
  • [00:36:04] Mike: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:36:05] Keith: And I want it to involve a suit somehow. So I asked Chet GBT, uh, did I have a beard when I saw you on Saturday or had I shaved?
  • [00:36:15] Mike: I'm not sure.
  • [00:36:15] Keith: Okay, sorry. We've got like four threads to open right here, but let me see if I could reel this in.
  • [00:36:20] Mike: Right.
  • [00:36:22] Keith: ah I try to dress in a way when I'm not wearing a suit that's a little bit interesting and invites a comment from the people looking at me. So, so you know, you you and Ali and our other friend, yeah, we're like commenting that, that yeah, I was wearing these plaid pants.
  • [00:36:35] Mike: Oh, right. You had those clothes that were a little, it looks like from a thrift store. Right. I didn't comment at all. My comment was Keith is wearing it. Therefore I know it's the right thing to wear. That was genuinely my comment.
  • [00:36:46] Mike: I was like, this must be correct.
  • [00:36:47] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:36:48] Mike: Like I just completely ah ah took it to face value. Like, Hmm.
  • [00:36:50] Keith: Right. So generally i I try to be stylish, but a little bit unusual. So it, it promotes intrigue.
  • [00:36:55] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:36:55] Keith: Uh, but yeah, I think a suit is a great thing to wear.
  • [00:36:58] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:36:59] Keith: And okay. So for a Halloween costume, I asked chat GPT. I'm a 44 year old man. Uh, I could, I have a graying beard and a full head of hair and.
  • [00:37:11] Mike: I'm going to plan, I'm planning to man a glory hole.
  • [00:37:15] Keith: No, I asked them, I want to, the reason why, I didn't tell Chad GPT why I wanted to wear a suit, but the reason is I think i you know people look best in it. And and I asked it, you know what should I be for Halloween?
  • [00:37:24] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:37:27] Keith: And it said like James Bond or ah Tony Stark, or it had it's had some other ideas. um But I don't know, I didn't love any of those ideas.
  • [00:37:36] Mike: Huh. I think you should wear, I have an idea. I think you should wear the costume that Matt Walsh wore in the decade's most successful documentary so far, ah Am I Racist?
  • [00:37:49] Keith: i don't I don't get the reference.
  • [00:37:51] Mike: You don't?
  • [00:37:52] Keith: No, I'm sorry.
  • [00:37:53] Mike: Wow. that's It's in theaters now. You could go watch the movie.
  • [00:37:57] Keith: umm I'm Googling.
  • [00:37:58] Mike: but he wore he So he he wore a costume.
  • [00:38:00] Keith: Oh, I see his suit, yeah.
  • [00:38:01] Mike: It's a little too complicated to explain.
  • [00:38:02] Keith: know
  • [00:38:03] Mike: Basically, he he he was when he made his documentary, What is a Woman?, he talked to this very left-wing professor from somewhere, and the guy had like this kind of almost self-parody costume on.
  • [00:38:13] Keith: Uh-huh.
  • [00:38:14] Mike: And the guy wouldn't, of course, answer the question, what is a woman? Because of the standard BS.
  • [00:38:19] Keith: Right.
  • [00:38:19] Mike: And anyway, he copies that guy's look and then goes around and learns to be an anti-racist educator and all this kind of stuff.
  • [00:38:21] Keith: I see.
  • [00:38:26] Mike: ah So you could, I'm sure in red States, that will be a popular costume with the kind of silly wig he wore and so forth.
  • [00:38:32] Keith: Ah, I see. I see. I see. I see.
  • [00:38:35] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:38:35] Keith: Yeah. That wig is kind of preposterous.
  • [00:38:37] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:38:38] Keith: Yeah. You don't want to wear something that makes people think you're silly. I don't think.
  • [00:38:45] Mike: I'm not sure what your goal is. Like, where were you? Where are you going to go?
  • [00:38:48] Keith: Well, I mean, I don't even have a Halloween party to go to, but if I did,
  • [00:38:53] Mike: Don't, can't you go to one of those like gay, like the power exchange or something, one of those clubs and watch men paddle each other.
  • [00:38:53] Keith: ah
  • [00:38:57] Keith: power exchange is not high on my list of places to go.
  • [00:39:01] Mike: How about the end up the white swallow?
  • [00:39:03] Keith: I'm sure they have a Halloween thing as well. I would rather go to a a heterosexual party
  • [00:39:06] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:39:11] Mike: You don't want to go to Harvey's man milk bar.
  • [00:39:13] Keith: Is that a place?
  • [00:39:14] Mike: No, I made it up pretty good though.
  • [00:39:16] Keith: Not that.
  • [00:39:20] Keith: All right. So that was Candy Crush. That was what I'm going to wear for Halloween. Okay.
  • [00:39:27] Keith: I want to talk, okay. This is posted at two X chromosomes. And we might've even talked a little little bit about this last week. I can't remember. But anyway, this person says, a shocking amount of men I've talked to believe women climax from penetration alone 100% of the time.
  • [00:39:40] Mike: Oh yeah.
  • [00:39:42] Keith: Okay, this post infuriates me because it's not the man's fault that they think that they're making women climax.
  • [00:39:43] Mike: Is there more to it? Yes.
  • [00:39:52] Keith: It's women's fault for not telling them that they they're not.
  • [00:39:56] Mike: I don't agree with you. Go on.
  • [00:39:58] Keith: it I just don't think making a woman orgasm is hard. Like it's not something that you can just figure out.
  • [00:40:06] Mike: Making a man orgasm is hard, actually. Making anybody orgasm. making like If you told a woman, you make me orgasm and I'm not gonna participate. Meaning, it's not that you're gonna sit there and think about you know horror movies and death all the time or something, but you're you're like, I will have a normal sexual response cycle, but I'm not gonna use my hands.
  • [00:40:20] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:40:24] Mike: I'm just gonna lie here. Which is typically what women do, actually, if you pleasure them.
  • [00:40:28] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [00:40:30] Mike: That's actually hard on a man, too. like how many like Actually, what percentage of the time
  • [00:40:32] Keith: I mean, if I'm not able to, right, so, you know, missionary isn't going to work.
  • [00:40:35] Mike: How quickly or how success, what but would you guess the percentage success rate if you gave a woman an hour with your body to make you orgasm and you're not helping would be?
  • [00:40:44] Keith: i mean if i'm not able to write so you know missionary isn't going to work
  • [00:40:49] Mike: No, because you're not, yeah, you're not allowed to help. Yeah.
  • [00:40:51] Keith: She could blow me until I got hard and then she could climb on top and then ah have me penetrate her.
  • [00:40:54] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:40:59] Mike: Okay, go on.
  • [00:41:02] Keith: And then, but yeah, I mean, I don't know about reliably if I'm like not allowed to thrust at all.
  • [00:41:02] Mike: Right.
  • [00:41:05] Mike: So would that get you off reliably her on top and you're just lying there?
  • [00:41:09] Keith: I just have to let it happen to me.
  • [00:41:10] Mike: Right.
  • [00:41:12] Keith: I agree, but this is a false, this is a false dichotomy because men do try to chase after their own orgasms.
  • [00:41:12] Mike: So I was imagining a blow and or a hand job.
  • [00:41:17] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:41:22] Mike: Well, women, okay, so women can as well, but they are.
  • [00:41:25] Keith: They can, but they don't on average.
  • [00:41:28] Mike: Okay. So most women masturbate, some, I mean, you know, it's it let's say it's 80% or something, it's it's not 100%.
  • [00:41:34] Keith: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. um No, of course not.
  • [00:41:37] Mike: So they have the ability to chase their own orgasm. Why do you think women don't do that when they're with a partner?
  • [00:41:44] Keith: What do I think they, I don't know.
  • [00:41:47] Mike: Well, you're saying they don't chase, you said women don't chase their own orgasm. So I mean, obvious the obvious way for them to do it is to start rubbing their clit, right?
  • [00:41:53] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:41:54] Mike: That's reliable.
  • [00:41:55] Keith: or instruct the man what she would like him to do.
  • [00:42:00] Mike: Okay, but I think in general fair I think in general Actually, okay a couple things even if you
  • [00:42:04] Keith: Which which might be get the vibrator out.
  • [00:42:06] Mike: even if you had the ability to instruct the woman what to do, but you're not, so you're allowed to participate verbally, I still think it would be hard for her to get you off. and we If you were 18, I remember this when I was 18 and it was kind of hard for people to get me off because there was like, I hadn't achieved that sort of communication ah knowledge to like go ahead and like help.
  • [00:42:15] Keith: Hmm.
  • [00:42:26] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [00:42:29] Mike: um but so i So I think from my perspective,
  • [00:42:33] Keith: But again, again, this is a false dichotomy because one, men don't just lay there.
  • [00:42:36] Mike: and yeah
  • [00:42:40] Keith: like They take an active, they're an active participant. In fact, the dominant participant in and getting the orgasm. And when they don't orgasm, they don't, usually they don't fake it.
  • [00:42:53] Keith: So there's not like a ah bad feedback loop.
  • [00:42:57] Mike: yeah agreed, but I think that most, maybe all women, and the to the wretched woman that I know that Keith doesn't know at all, she's just someone I know who says that I always say shitty disparaging things about women on the podcast, but this is not something someone I know.
  • [00:43:13] Mike: Uh, to you specifically, uh, I'm going to say something positive about women here. Um, I think this is men's fault. I think that it's because basically every woman who's been in partnered sex has had experience with a guy who doesn't like when she rubs her own clit, who doesn't, who basically is very negative on her doing that.
  • [00:43:29] Mike: He's like, I want to, I want to be in charge. I want to do it. And that makes women reticent too. It's, it's embarrassing and guys, guys don't like it.
  • [00:43:36] Keith: It's hard for me, it's hard for me to accept that. Like I really like it when a woman becomes an active participant in getting her own orgasm.
  • [00:43:41] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:43:46] Mike: I think a lot of men don't. I think a large enough proportion of men don't, and they don't in kind of a crappy way that women, most women, a large percentage of women have an experience with a guy that makes them go, oh, I better just let him take charge and he doesn't want me. Because guys fetishize the idea that they can cause the orgasm, they can make her orgasm, right?
  • [00:44:09] Keith: Well, yes, but yeah, that sounds great.
  • [00:44:12] Mike: I don't want to make the girl. Well, you know what Ali said? She said the other day, like when we were sorry on the podcast, she described, she said the way she likes sex to be is the guy fucks her comes and then she just, she's masturbates and he's just like asleep.
  • [00:44:24] Mike: I was like, that sounds pretty good. Why do you guys want to make a girl orgasm?
  • [00:44:30] Mike: Like it's
  • [00:44:30] Keith: I like imagining that they're so turned on by me and yeah, like
  • [00:44:34] Mike: They are. That's why they get excited and want to masturbate afterward. like that That's right. the The whole thing is hot. And they have this really hot scene in their head that they can play over and over and have a really good orgasm. But like I think they're better. I think that guys, I think it's sort of tricky. yeah you know' So you you're skeptical that women have this experience of a guy kind of like slapping their hand away from their clit.
  • [00:44:58] Keith: Ah, their own their own hand from their own clit.
  • [00:45:01] Mike: Correct.
  • [00:45:03] Keith: I don't know if I'm skeptical of that. I don't know what's the more dominant factor in men's confusion about how women, right? So this person's complaint is that a shocking amount of men I talked to believe women climax from penetration alone 100% of the time.
  • [00:45:18] Mike: And you think it's because of women faking orgasm.
  • [00:45:24] Mike: I agree. I agree.
  • [00:45:24] Keith: I don't know if it's it's it's but it's, some of it is them faking, some of them is them...
  • [00:45:24] Mike: Part of it is that.
  • [00:45:32] Keith: yeah i guess it's ah Yeah, I guess it all comes down to faking. I mean, she's probably using hyperbole here.
  • [00:45:38] Mike: i I still think this is just this is very easily solvable by men like men.
  • [00:45:45] Mike: If you want to know what a female orgasm looks like, have a female partner masturbate in front of you and then you'll know.
  • [00:45:50] Keith: Right.
  • [00:45:51] Mike: and and Basically, something close to zero, it rounds to zero percent of porns have real female orgasms in them. You can never really tell, but most of them don't look right to me.
  • [00:46:02] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:46:02] Mike: No, actually, it's more than most 95, 99 percent of them. And then there are some that do look right, but I just don't know. Like they could still be faking because like women, you know, they could they could have video themselves orgasm and be like, oh, that's what I need to do.
  • [00:46:11] Keith: Mike, it's it's it's way more insipid than that. like i was I've been watching Sex and the City, and there was an episode where ah somebody goes home with with some guy.
  • [00:46:18] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:46:20] Mike: That shows. Yeah.
  • [00:46:25] Keith: I think it was Charlotte. um
  • [00:46:29] Mike: Charlotte's the sexiest one.
  • [00:46:30] Keith: She's the conservative brunette one.
  • [00:46:30] Mike: So good. I like that. She's the sexiest one.
  • [00:46:36] Keith: I think I probably agree.
  • [00:46:38] Mike: She just says.
  • [00:46:40] Keith: She's the most physically attractive.
  • [00:46:42] Mike: Yeah, that's right.
  • [00:46:43] Keith: um Anyway, it's just like ah a 10 second clip, but like she brings a guy home and then ah he's on top of her in the mission, missionary position. And she's like moaning and then curling her toes.
  • [00:46:56] Keith: And, uh, what's her name? Carrie? Is that the main character?
  • [00:47:01] Mike: Carries the main character.
  • [00:47:01] Keith: Yeah. Carrie, you know, she's the narrator as well. She's like, and, and Charlotte got two orgasms that night. That's like,
  • [00:47:08] Mike: Yeah, it's very unlikely.
  • [00:47:09] Keith: I mean, that's not the patriarchy. ah
  • [00:47:14] Mike: Well, but that's yeah.
  • [00:47:14] Keith: but that this isn't like She's blaming men for being confused about women having orgasms from penetration. But here we are, Sex and the City, which was like you know the number one fucking you know liberating feminist thing of its era, yeah you know showing you know claiming that Charlotte's having two orgasms from mission missionary position.
  • [00:47:26] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:47:35] Keith: And it's like, okay, well, Who's to blame here? like
  • [00:47:39] Mike: Yeah, look, you're preaching the choir on this. like I mean, this is why it actually hurts my feelings when people say that I or we are like um negative toward women.
  • [00:47:52] Mike: And then people go and rush in hundreds of millions and listen to Call Her Daddy. like play Podcasts like Call Her Daddy are actively confusing women about how sex works.
  • [00:47:56] Keith: Right, right.
  • [00:48:02] Mike: like the The stuff that Ali says on our podcast is really pretty accurate. like
  • [00:48:07] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:48:07] Mike: And I know that from experiencing number of different women and reading and it just, it's very, it vibes very accurate in terms of women's actual experience. And this comes back to this thing of it's not misogynist of me to say, I think a lot of women don't know what an orgasm is and like call her daddy and sex in the city, aren't helping any with that because yeah, you know what?
  • [00:48:21] Keith: Right.
  • [00:48:26] Mike: Charlotte probably thought she did have two orgasms.
  • [00:48:27] Keith: Oh,
  • [00:48:28] Mike: And I think maybe later in the series, actually she might question whether she's ever had one. I i don't remember that exactly when she's with that guy, Trey and stuff.
  • [00:48:33] Keith: interesting.
  • [00:48:35] Mike: Like she might actually wonder that.
  • [00:48:36] Keith: I don't remember. I haven't seen it. I'm watching it because I want to have the cultural touchstones that I think came from it. It's like, if I hadn't watched Star Wars, you know, I wouldn't know what a lightsaber was or what the force was.
  • [00:48:41] Mike: the yeah
  • [00:48:45] Keith: So like, you almost need to watch some of these things to understand various things and things like this.
  • [00:48:49] Mike: Sure. the ah One of the things, so I watched that show when it came out, or a bit after it came out, I first got a TiVo in the early 2000s.
  • [00:48:58] Keith: Right.
  • [00:49:00] Mike: I rewatched, well, when because the point is I didn't have to watch it live.
  • [00:49:03] Keith: right
  • [00:49:04] Mike: I think i think i think that the show started in like the mid 90s or something. ah sex in the Maybe?
  • [00:49:07] Keith: Sex in the City.
  • [00:49:09] Mike: I'm not sure.
  • [00:49:09] Keith: It's like 98 or 99.
  • [00:49:10] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:49:11] Keith: It's definitely pre-9-11 because the credits of the first two seasons of the Twin Towers.
  • [00:49:15] Mike: Okay, yeah, there you go. ah So I rewatched the first season somewhat recently. And what amazed me ah that I didn't notice before, because I think I was so used to early 20s female behavior, was ah the main character, Carrie, comes across to to a middle-aged man. She comes across as insane.
  • [00:49:33] Mike: Just an insane person.
  • [00:49:33] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:49:34] Mike: I mean, the way she behaves toward all the guys she's dating toward Mr. Big, all this sort of stuff, it's, I mean, maybe this is something you experience when dating women still, but to me, I just watch it and I'm like, who would tolerate this bullshit?
  • [00:49:45] Mike: Like she's just, she's totally inarticulate in explaining what she's feeling to the guys. She, she lies all the time. She conceals things. I mean, I don't know if your, if your take on it was that as well.
  • [00:49:56] Keith: No, no, this is there's been a lot written in you know more recent years about how Carrie has this, do you know the expression main character energy while we're talking about Gen Z stuff?
  • [00:50:00] Mike: Okay, good.
  • [00:50:07] Mike: Yes. Yes. She's the main character. Yes.
  • [00:50:09] Keith: Yeah, she like really thinks she's the main character of everything and everything revolves around her and she doesn't really understand that, yeah.
  • [00:50:13] Mike: Right.
  • [00:50:16] Mike: I mean, to be fair, the conceit of the show is that she's like kind of writing down her experiences with these people.
  • [00:50:20] Keith: Well, she is the main character, yes, but
  • [00:50:22] Mike: So that's a little, you know, yes.
  • [00:50:25] Keith: Yeah, like her frame for how things are are always very self-involved.
  • [00:50:30] Mike: Yeah, I mean, she gets she just gets upset at the drop of a hat and she's up it's obvious what she's upset about and she won't just explain it to the guy. And so then he's left. he I mean, in most cases, the guys are painted kind of negatively.
  • [00:50:42] Mike: ah And um yeah, anyway, and ah I just want to so throw in that the the guy who made that show, Darren Starr, also made Emily in Paris, which is the worst show I've ever seen.
  • [00:50:52] Keith: I can't believe you even tried watching it.
  • [00:50:53] Mike: I wanted to say that really fast.
  • [00:50:54] Keith: i I have not watched Emily in Paris, but I know you you have an affinity for for Paris.
  • [00:50:57] Mike: It's sickening.
  • [00:50:59] Keith: So maybe that's why you even get, why did you even try it?
  • [00:51:00] Mike: It's sickening. I don't want to.
  • [00:51:02] Keith: Like, why did you?
  • [00:51:02] Mike: My wife was my wife was watching it and I watched along with her and it's just the the the I don't want to talk about it. It's a bad show.
  • [00:51:08] Keith: I can't even imagine, I can't even imagine your wife.
  • [00:51:11] Mike: Like, I would love it if there was an episode where she got murdered. I'd be like, oh, good. Now this is getting good.
  • [00:51:19] Keith: Wow. Okay.
  • [00:51:20] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:51:20] Keith: All right. Well, rip Emily. um All right. ah This person asks hugging a stuffed toy during sex. Is this too much? Okay. So when I masturbate, I usually like to be surrounded by all my stuffed animals.
  • [00:51:31] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:51:31] Keith: It's like I'm in a little cave and at nighttime with my cute gemstone lamp. The ambiance is extra cozy. I have a favorite stuffed toy that I like to hug with one arm while I play with myself. suck on a dildo as I'm masturbating.
  • [00:51:42] Mike: It makes sense.
  • [00:51:44] Keith: Question though, is this too much? I'm not really an age regression person or into any little girl things, but I do get a sense of safety and arousal by feeling all swaddled up and being able to nuzzle into the little guy.
  • [00:51:56] Keith: During sex with a partner, is that a lot or not a big deal? I'm getting in my head about it. As a friend said, it was a little babyish and it might give bait vibes. Uh, it means jail bait.
  • [00:52:06] Mike: Bait vibes.
  • [00:52:06] Keith: I think they mean jail bait.
  • [00:52:07] Mike: OGL Bait got it. But she's a female.
  • [00:52:08] Keith: So yeah.
  • [00:52:10] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:52:10] Keith: So now I'm thinking about not doing it anymore. I think that if I went to a girl's house and she had like a teddy bear or something, I would be a little bit weirded out by that.
  • [00:52:20] Mike: Why?
  • [00:52:22] Keith: I would just, well, okay. I would note to myself, wonder why, and then carry on with the proceedings. But I would definitely note it.
  • [00:52:33] Keith: It would be a little bit strange.
  • [00:52:33] Mike: Wait, you would think, so it's, this is a large teddy bear. Let's stipulate that you would, when you say wonder, why are you imagining that she like straps a strap onto it and it fucks it? Is that what you mean?
  • [00:52:41] Keith: No, I would just think it was weird that she insisted on hugging it while having sex with me.
  • [00:52:42] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:52:46] Mike: No, she said was masturbating, not when having sex.
  • [00:52:49] Keith: No, she says during sex with a partner, is that a lot or not a big deal?
  • [00:52:53] Mike: Oh, I didn't catch that.
  • [00:52:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:52:55] Mike: I mean, okay. But she also does it while masturbating.
  • [00:52:58] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:52:59] Mike: Or did I like just go on another planet when you were reading this plain candy crush?
  • [00:53:01] Keith: No, no, no, no, no. She sets it up by saying she likes it. She's discovered she really likes it and it's comforting through her masturbatory experiences.
  • [00:53:09] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:53:09] Keith: And now she's wondering if she does it with a partner, if they'll be weirded out.
  • [00:53:10] Mike: I mean, so I think that women ah like the weight of a man on them when getting, when, when, when during sex.
  • [00:53:13] Keith: And the answer is yes.
  • [00:53:19] Mike: I think this is like comforting and like, it makes them, it enhances the experience.
  • [00:53:19] Keith: Sure.
  • [00:53:24] Mike: It's probably really part of the experience.
  • [00:53:25] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:53:26] Mike: And I think that, um, When women talk about the lack of intimacy in the doggy style position, obviously there's a lack of eye contact. That's important. you know You'll see the pathetic gestures like putting her hand back so you can hold it or look to looking over her shoulder at you.
  • [00:53:41] Mike: And these are just, yeah, it's like, okay, but you know what's going on.
  • [00:53:45] Keith: Uh-huh.
  • [00:53:45] Mike: I think women would be better served by sort of going with it, like being like, yeah, I'm being used.
  • [00:53:50] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:53:50] Mike: but And I think they get more out of it that way. ah But I think another thing is that they don't have the guy's weight on them like this. And some women like prone bone because you have a little potential for the weight on you. And so that was what I was imagining.
  • [00:54:01] Mike: um I have a weighted blanket that I use in the winter sometimes.
  • [00:54:03] Keith: Yeah, me too.
  • [00:54:05] Mike: Which is nice. And I've never, I don't masturbate into it or something, but I could, yeah, I mean, I think it has a similar kind of thing.
  • [00:54:06] Keith: It is nice.
  • [00:54:11] Mike: It feels like, and there's another thing. I remember when I was a child, we had this cat.
  • [00:54:18] Mike: Sounds like it's going a bad place, but it's not.
  • [00:54:20] Keith: Yes, it does.
  • [00:54:21] Mike: We had this cat that was a pretty big cat. And I remember sometimes I would lie down on my back and like put the cat on my chest. And I remember being like, it was sort of comforting feeling.
  • [00:54:29] Keith: It is.
  • [00:54:29] Mike: I was like, Oh, I bet this is like, I could, I didn't want to have sex with a cat. No, but I could, I was like, Oh, I bet this is what intimacy like with a partner is like. And I think that's right.
  • [00:54:38] Keith: Oh, interesting.
  • [00:54:39] Mike: Uh, the weight of the the weight. And so, so I don't think this is that weird. The partner and sex part, I don't, that's a little strange. And then did she say she wants to put a dildo in her mouth while a guy's fucking her?
  • [00:54:50] Keith: No, the way she masturbates is she plays with herself, sucks on a dildo.
  • [00:54:51] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:54:56] Keith: And then, yeah. So while she's flicking the bean, I think she's also sucking on a dildo and holding on to the stuffed animal.
  • [00:55:06] Mike: I mean, I think that's kind of sweet.
  • [00:55:06] Keith: Like, so I like to hug with one arm while I play with myself slash suck on a dildo.
  • [00:55:09] Mike: Yeah. I think this woman is like and more advanced. That's, I think this is like a good thing. Like this is not, this is not a woman who's disturbed. Like she's figured out a lot of the things like women like having a cock in their mouth.
  • [00:55:21] Mike: It feels pleasant to them. Uh, you know, most women, a lot of women do and they, and they like having a weight on them. And so she's just, yeah, she's found these things to kind of enhance the experience and good for her.
  • [00:55:32] Mike: She's like, You know, she's now the partner, the the teddy bear with the partner. That's, I'm not sure what that's all about. Maybe she's like crossing the streams a little there. That's a little strange.
  • [00:55:43] Mike: Like she probably not do that. Cause where is the, where, I mean, is the teddy bear straddling her face or something? Like, where is it?
  • [00:55:48] Keith: Now it sounds like she wraps her arm around it.
  • [00:55:51] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:55:51] Keith: She likes to hug with one arm, which doesn't sound like it's the weight, but it, I mean, you are right that it's comforting in some way.
  • [00:55:55] Mike: Yeah. I mean, it's just her Lisa's not a real bear.
  • [00:56:03] Keith: That's true. What a relief.
  • [00:56:05] Mike: that's Yeah, I mean, to me, that's just, she's like bringing a thing over from masturbation and to partnered sex and like, whatever, like it's, she probably shouldn't or something, but it doesn't matter that much. But all the things she's describing, actually, I feel like she's, yeah, I feel like she's more advanced than most female masturbators.
  • [00:56:20] Mike: I think women could get a lesson from this. Like do things that make you, that make you feel good. Like, uh, yeah, like really.
  • [00:56:28] Keith: Use the dildo, hold the teddy bear.
  • [00:56:31] Mike: I think that, look, I mean, okay, I'm sure that you've had partners that like to masturbate with your cock in their mouth, right?
  • [00:56:39] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:56:40] Mike: Okay. It's common. Would you say it's common, meaning more than 10%?
  • [00:56:43] Keith: it's yeah It's definitely not uncommon. Yeah, it's more than 10%, yeah.
  • [00:56:46] Mike: Yeah. That makes sense. So she's just she's just fantasizing about, you know, and and for women, like porn doesn't work as well for a variety of reasons. It's just random people. And so that she's probably got her eyes closed and she's imagining some guy she likes and that's his cock in her mouth.
  • [00:56:58] Keith: yeah
  • [00:56:59] Mike: Like, okay.
  • [00:57:00] Keith: Yeah. All right. Let's try and do one more. Uh, this is a 34 year old woman. I started seeing somebody who is 47 years old and I experienced a sensation I've never had before. We have only had sex a few times, like maybe five or so. When I think about something sexual with him, I feel a pleasurable pulse in my vagina that radiates to my heart. Like I feel this pleasurable feeling that shoots up my body.
  • [00:57:24] Mike: Huh.
  • [00:57:25] Keith: It has been happening ever since we had sex together and I've never experienced this before. If I think about someone else in a sexual fantasy way, I don't feel this sensation. I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced something similar. It's pretty amazing to feel. It's like my clit is tied to my heart, such a pleasurable feeling. To be clear, this is only briefly thinking about it, not me touching or anything.
  • [00:57:46] Mike: when ah when um and This is really common, I know this from talking to various people, experts in the field. When people have frightening or terrifying or very sad experiences, often you have a negative feeling that goes from your chest area down to your crotch so like or your stomach area.
  • [00:58:06] Mike: so like she's having so It strikes me that it's the reverse of that.
  • [00:58:06] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:58:09] Mike: right That's kind of interesting. right she's it's It's the positive version of this. I don't think I've ever experienced this, have you?
  • [00:58:15] Keith: I have any other, no, the top three comments are, i I've had this happen as well. I think it's a physical reaction to love.
  • [00:58:21] Mike: ah
  • [00:58:21] Keith: This is what I feel like when I think about my partner sexually, or if we've recently had really good sex, been together almost eight years, it's because I'm in love with him, smiley face. Is this what love is supposed to feel like? Smiley face.
  • [00:58:32] Keith: That's the top three comments.
  • [00:58:33] Mike: Well, I mean, look, the fact that people say their heart is like the center of love is an evolved thing. It's because of feelings like this, right? that's why otherwise like let's say Let's say instead it went to your kidney, then people would be like, oh, the kidney is the center of these feelings like that.
  • [00:58:42] Keith: I guess,
  • [00:58:47] Keith: yeah, you feel some sort of um ah feeling in your chest when, yeah, I yeah i would, if if everybody replaced the word love here with lust, I would be much more on board here.
  • [00:58:51] Mike: Oh, and I, yeah. Yeah. And it's because of adrenaline, probably like there, I mean, there's just a few different, um, yeah.
  • [00:59:05] Mike: Yeah. Well, they're, they want to be romantic and sentimental, right? I mean, they're women. Is this still from two X chromosomes?
  • [00:59:12] Keith: Now this is actually on the sex subreddit.
  • [00:59:15] Mike: Oh, okay. Yeah. They want to be, they want things to be romantic and and sentimental, so they don't, uh, well, I mean, but to be fair, they are describing, um, like post-coital feelings or something.
  • [00:59:28] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:59:29] Mike: So it isn't necessarily lust. do you ever like So I famously ah post orgasm feel an urge to, as John Muir said, the the the mountains are calling and I must go or whatever.
  • [00:59:43] Mike: It's time for me to leave.
  • [00:59:43] Keith: Yes. You want to be alone.
  • [00:59:44] Mike: Do you ever get like some sort of ah bonded? So you do. I know you get like this feeling of wanting to cuddle and bonding.
  • [00:59:48] Keith: I do.
  • [00:59:49] Mike: like where does that where does that Where do you feel that in your body?
  • [00:59:49] Keith: I do.
  • [00:59:53] Mike: Your testicles or butt?
  • [00:59:55] Keith: No. No. No, it's probably closer to my chest.
  • [01:00:01] Mike: Okay. So this could be what you're feeling, right?
  • [01:00:03] Keith: I guess. Yeah.
  • [01:00:05] Mike: I don't, I famously do not feel this.
  • [01:00:05] Keith: yeah
  • [01:00:08] Mike: Uh, I wish I did. Yeah, it sounds nice.
  • [01:00:14] Keith: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's some sort of oxytocin response or something.
  • [01:00:14] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:00:19] Keith: I don't know.
  • [01:00:20] Mike: Yeah, there's some. yeah Yeah, there's some I know. Yeah, I mean, chest things are going to be like constricting, relaxing blood vessels, whatever, like some kind of a that's why I said adrenaline.
  • [01:00:27] Keith: Right.
  • [01:00:30] Mike: I'm not sure, though.
  • [01:00:31] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:00:31] Mike: um But yeah, that's probably a. A normal thing, and I mean, women are supposed to feel like bonded, like that's I mean, because once you've planted your seed in them, like they could be pregnant.
  • [01:00:44] Mike: And so now the die is cast, right?
  • [01:00:48] Mike: So this kind of shit needs to be present to persuade their brain to like tolerate all your bullshit. Like, like, you know, if a woman starts having sex with a guy and then he stops wanting sex and starts like an arguing with her and.
  • [01:00:54] Keith: Right.
  • [01:01:01] Mike: Et cetera.
  • [01:01:06] Mike: You know, he gets tired of sex with her.
  • [01:01:06] Keith: All right. That's enough. That'll do it for this episode of Your Mileage May Vary. You can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod at gmail dot.com. We pay $10 for all feedback received. Again, that's ymmvpod at gmail dot.com.
  • [01:01:20] Keith: Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next week on Your Mileage May Vary.