Your Mileage May Vary: Soaking Explained, Ghosting Dynamics, Polyamory Challenges, Sexual Routines, Parenting Perspectives

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00:01] Keith: Hello and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I am Keith, my co-hosts are Mike and Allie. Hi guys.
[00:00:10] Ally: Hey.
[00:00:11] Mike: Hey Keith.
[00:00:12] Keith: um Mike, you teased several items for patter before we started recording. What do you have?
[00:00:18] Mike: Well, I mean, let's just quickly talk about soaking. ah Soaking is a sexual practice ah performed by, I guess, men of the Mormon faith where they put their penis in a woman, but don't thrust it in and out, thus not breaking the rules about virginity.
[00:00:21] Keith: Okay.
[00:00:33] Mike: um Is this something that either of you participated in or heard anybody participating in? And actually, I think that Ali might kind of have to do something like this when she's dating a guy with Peroni's disease.
[00:00:43] Ally: yeah
[00:00:44] Mike: Right.
[00:00:44] Ally: Insertion is difficult. No, I'm not even convinced this is a real practice that Mormons do because I've only seen or heard about it on like Instagram reels. My question for you is, do you think this would encourage premature ejaculation or that it would help with premature ejaculation?
[00:01:03] Mike: That's not the reason they're doing it, right? They're doing it because they're trying to have sex without really having sex. I think that it would be, I think a man could orgasm in this situation.
[00:01:13] Ally: Oh yeah, I just mean like if you're doing this a lot at like 18 or something, does it kind of condition you to come from absolutely nothing so that when you're having real sex, you come right away because you're so used to coming from like the bare minimum.
[00:01:26] Mike: Can a man be conditioned to come fast? What do you think Keith?
[00:01:30] Keith: Yes.
[00:01:30] Mike: Like usually you think about conditioning to come slower.
[00:01:31] Keith: Well, I don't. Okay. For starters. So let's just establish what soaking is. You insert the penis and then you, are you allowed to rig? You're not allowed to pump back and forth.
[00:01:42] Keith: There's an image on the Wikipedia page that we'll link in the show notes.
[00:01:42] Mike: Right.
[00:01:45] Keith: That's highly amusing.
[00:01:47] Mike: Yes.
[00:01:47] Keith: Uh, making it clear that you're not allowed to pump back and forth, but you can fully insert or can you, can you wriggle?
[00:01:53] Mike: I think the idea is no, you're just supposed to feel the the connection.
[00:01:55] Ally: No.
[00:01:59] Mike: I mean, and by the way, it goes without saying, for the 90 percent of our listeners who think who are unsure on how women orgasm, that definitely the women are orgasming from soaking. Right, Ali? I mean, this just easily gives a woman an orgasm.
[00:02:09] Ally: Right. Yeah. The woman presumably could like contract. So I mean, like she can do something like she can do like kegel type of things to make it feel better for
[00:02:19] Mike: But you wouldn't feel anything when this is happening, right, Ali?
[00:02:23] Ally: I mean, not anything that's gonna lead to orgasm, no.
[00:02:27] Mike: I mean, I, I suspect that before long, it would basically, you would just feel nothing. It would just be like you would no longer really even, it wouldn't matter to you that his penis was there.
[00:02:32] Ally: Yeah.
[00:02:36] Keith: It's like having a tampon in.
[00:02:38] Ally: Yeah, yeah, if he's lying perfectly still and not sort of twitching or whatever.
[00:02:43] Mike: Right. Maybe you could feel his heartbeat through his cock. That might turn you on.
[00:02:48] Ally: Maybe, you know. I think it's just going to make us come more easily like on a hair trigger.
[00:02:50] Mike: Probably feel that.
[00:02:56] Mike: You think if a man practiced soaking for like a month and no other sexual activity, he would be coming faster just because of the the soaking. Well, let's say he masturbated every day also you think, but you think that the soaking would somehow, I think it would not help.
[00:03:03] Ally: ah
[00:03:09] Mike: I think it would just, I think you becoming the same speed.
[00:03:12] Ally: Are Mormons allowed to masturbate?
[00:03:14] Mike: No, no.
[00:03:15] Ally: Okay, so this is like, that's what I mean, like this is the only sexual contact or activity that they're allowed to have.
[00:03:16] Mike: And.
[00:03:20] Ally: So I think they're going to become attuned to it.
[00:03:25] Mike: That's interesting.
[00:03:25] Keith: But, but the it, I think the thing that makes me come is the derivative of the motion, right?
[00:03:25] Mike: So maybe, the yeah.
[00:03:33] Keith: So like, if I can only just insert my cock and can't move, bringing myself to orgasm on one thrust would be pretty challenging.
[00:03:44] Keith: I'd have to be really, really, really close before that thrust for that to work.
[00:03:49] Mike: I don't, I don't think I could ever do that one, which is what with certainty.
[00:03:51] Keith: I don't think I could either. I mean, I can basically get so that like I was about to come and then I inserted it like as I, like I already knew the orgasm was coming, but that's not the same.
[00:03:53] Mike: yeah
[00:03:55] Mike: Right.
[00:03:59] Mike: Right. Yes, which is a trope in porn, an annoying trope for me, where like the guy has come dribbling out of his penis and then inserts, you know, I don't know if that's Ali.
[00:04:09] Keith: Yeah.
[00:04:12] Mike: Do you have guys that do that to you?
[00:04:13] Ally: ah No, generally no.
[00:04:15] Mike: No, they usually want to be. This is the thing. It's so weird that in porn, they do things that are just totally no, no guy would actually want to do that.
[00:04:22] Keith: I think they're trying to make sure that people understand that he's about to cream pie her or something.
[00:04:22] Mike: It's like, yeah.
[00:04:28] Keith: it'ss Some people are really into cream pie and so they're trying to give some sort of visual feedback that that's about to occur.
[00:04:29] Mike: Yes.
[00:04:34] Mike: And they want to prove that he really did it, that it wasn't simulated, even though you probably could like somehow simulate that with a sack of something that looks like semen implanted in the penis, et cetera.
[00:04:46] Keith: Well, not all porns have the same budget as others, right? You know, maybe in a low budget situation, they don't have a special effects department to help with that kind of stuff.
[00:04:55] Mike: That's a good point. It's probably easier just to do it the old fashioned way anyway.
[00:04:59] Keith: Yeah.
[00:05:00] Mike: All right. Well, people can look at the the thing about soaking.
[00:05:04] Keith: Right.
[00:05:04] Mike: If they want to get more information, people make fun of it. But I mean, like, this is a religious practice. So we want to ah respect it. Um, yeah, and they're not supposed to masturbate.
[00:05:11] Keith: right
[00:05:13] Mike: So yeah, I mean, like there probably are a fair number of pregnancies, uh, in Utah caused by soaking if they really do that. Um, okay. So I, uh, I was at this, uh, I was in the mountains of Lake Tahoe doing some skiing and I, there's this bar there that I've been to a few times that I've learned as the drug bar.
[00:05:31] Mike: And um um every time I go there, some loose woman comes up to me. I don't think it's my attractiveness. They do always want to be very clear about like whether I own a house or not. So I think there may be some monetary component to their interest. I met a young lady who told me she was polyamorous. She very quickly volunteered that she was bisexual and polyamorous. Now she was on my right and that matters because she couldn't see my wedding ring.
[00:05:57] Keith: Ah.
[00:05:57] Mike: I informed her later that I was married and she was angry. And she said, I said, well, what's wrong? and And it was because I had not made my intentions clear.
[00:06:11] Keith: She approached you first.
[00:06:11] Mike: And I wanted to talk about this part. Uh, I'm not sure it was, she was sitting next to me at the bar and I, I, might have I probably said something first, but it was very just like contextual, like maybe the football game on the TV or something.
[00:06:17] Keith: Hmm.
[00:06:23] Keith: I mean, that's kind of a tease, Mikey. You initiated talking with a woman. That's a clear indication of...
[00:06:31] Mike: Is that right?
[00:06:31] Keith: No, no, it's not.
[00:06:32] Mike: So is it, I mean, is it reasonable for her to be angry that I had not been clear about, about the, I see every time I talked to one of these women, we wind up talking about like her clit.
[00:06:37] Keith: Well, I don't know. I mean, you talk about weird things that most people wouldn't bring up in casual conversation. Now, so I...
[00:06:48] Keith: Yeah, but that is...
[00:06:51] Ally: That's you, yeah.
[00:06:51] Keith: I think that might not be a random sampling.
[00:06:52] Ally: yeah yeah
[00:06:54] Mike: Well, I mean, but Ali, do you think that you would at a bar, if a random guy was talking to you? what ah Would you be willing to talk about your clit or would you avoid it? You would probably.
[00:07:03] Ally: He would have to bring it up first. it
[00:07:06] Mike: He usually bring it up to me. She brought up her bisexuality and then the polyamory. I said, and I don't know. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, I guess I think what I do is when they bring up a sexual topic, I sort of drill down on that, but wouldn't all men do that?
[00:07:18] Keith: Yeah, you have a special way.
[00:07:19] Ally: Maybe.
[00:07:20] Mike: I say, I get to, I get excited, but all men would get excited. This woman said she's polyamorous and she's, she, she does it because she knows she can love more than one man at a time. And this is actually would be interesting to you. Another thing she said, Keith, uh, she said that the hardest part about it is that when she's seeing one person and then she brings on another and it could be a man or a woman that that beginning of the new relationship creates the jealousy. So in other words, because at the beginning of having sex with a new person, you're like so much more excited, like the previous person that has a problem.
[00:07:55] Mike: She's like, if we can get past that zone, then we can stably have, I can stably have like two or three partners.
[00:07:58] Keith: Interesting.
[00:08:00] Mike: But she said like, that's the thing that breaks up the polyamory is that like first, so then there's this question of like, should you not be honest until you've seen the new person for a while so like you can wait for that to wear off or whatever.
[00:08:05] Keith: Well, it might just be that the first that the beginning of seeing another person is the first time, the beginning of seeing person two is the first time that person one has really even experienced the the woman seeing someone else. So it it might not be that it's the beginning, it might be that it's the first time.
[00:08:30] Keith: Does that make sense?
[00:08:30] Mike: I think this isn't, but she said it lasted like three to six months.
[00:08:34] Keith: Huh.
[00:08:35] Mike: Like it's basically, she, yeah, I mean, basically she, well, this, this I felt might resonate with you that like, she's she she feels like the early part of the relationship is so enjoyable for her that like that it kind of drives away her desire to have a long-term relationship.
[00:08:46] Keith: Yeah.
[00:08:47] Ally: Good.
[00:08:49] Mike: I know her, I only know her name. I can't, I was going to say I could find her for you. She's not that, I don't think she's attractive enough for you.
[00:08:53] Keith: No.
[00:08:55] Ally: I think that's true that the early part of the relationship is the most exciting, even if you do intend for it to be a long-term relationship. But like why? What does she get out of having three partners then once she's past that point? Or will she just continue adding people indefinitely and like kick out the oldest? you know Is it like first in, first out? like every six months she picks out the oldest person or like.
[00:09:17] Mike: just so She just told me she can love more than one person at a time. And so because of that, like you know she's like, why would I you know break up with somebody in order to do have this new person? Except for this problem that then the older...
[00:09:29] Mike: No, it's that she'll get broken up with because the older partner gets upset because she's spending all her time so swooning over this new person.
[00:09:33] Ally: Hmm.
[00:09:36] Mike: right
[00:09:37] Ally: Yeah, but what if they didn't? I guess what I'm saying is like, let's say that she gets to three and they've all gotten over that jealousy period. And the third one, the most recent one, now she's been with that person a year.
[00:09:48] Ally: And the other two, she's been with longer than that. Like, why wouldn't she add a fourth? Or would she? Or like, what is the max number?
[00:09:56] Mike: I didn't ask her that. I don't know. I mean, there's probably some sort of semen overlap issue that would happen if there was too many guys involved.
[00:10:01] Ally: Hmm.
[00:10:05] Mike: I also don't know like how she affords any of this. She's a cashier by trade.
[00:10:10] Ally: Hmm.
[00:10:11] Mike: um so maybe Well, maybe actually, maybe the men.
[00:10:12] Keith: All of these, her stable of men can't help support her.
[00:10:16] Mike: i think I think one of the things that goes on with this in this this Lake Tahoe town is that if you go to the locals bar, like the locals don't have much cash. And what they do, they spend on drugs and alcohol.
[00:10:25] Keith: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Mike: So it's pretty long. All right.
[00:10:27] Keith: Do you think, hold on, I want to litigate this.
[00:10:28] Mike: Yep. Okay.
[00:10:30] Keith: If somebody, was she in her, within her rights to be annoyed that you weren't
[00:10:41] Mike: Right.
[00:10:41] Keith: interested in her, like I suspect the following happened. You initiated some kind of casual conversation. It is steered towards sex. Maybe she was a little bit causing it to do so, but you certainly didn't pump the brakes on that. And then at some point later, how did the reveal that you were married occur?
[00:11:06] Mike: Uh, there was another woman who was sort of like trying to, uh, participate in the conversation and she asked like what my status was.
[00:11:12] Keith: Uh-huh.
[00:11:15] Mike: And then I, yeah, I told the truth and also I'm wearing, I was like, I'm wearing a wedding ring, but this first woman was like sort of ah shocked and annoyed.
[00:11:15] Keith: Okay.
[00:11:20] Keith: It's apoplectic.
[00:11:21] Mike: It was like, well, you didn't tell me that. Uh, and, and I was like, why does that matter? And it's like, well, the key was this, that she, this was the key insight that she told me that I hadn't thought about is that like, it's really important for women.
[00:11:34] Mike: she told me, at a bar or a social situation to suss out as quickly as possible the intentions of a guy who tries to talk to them and that she was bothered by the fact that she'd sussed wrong.
[00:11:46] Keith: I suspect the sussing is always the same thing, which is that he's trying to have sex with me and that you had a wedding ring or not.
[00:11:54] Mike: Well, but you could have other intentions.
[00:11:56] Keith: ah yeah There could be, but at a bar, especially that bar, nine times out of 10 or 99 times out of a hundred maybe.
[00:12:01] Mike: this Yeah, true, true.
[00:12:06] Mike: It does seem to be the case this bar attracts people that are looking for loose hookups.
[00:12:06] Keith: ah
[00:12:11] Mike: Yeah.
[00:12:11] Keith: Yeah.
[00:12:11] Ally: Hmm.
[00:12:13] Mike: Um, I mean, I don't know, like Ali, if you're in a social setting and a guy starts talking to you, do you assume that he's trying to fuck you? That's just like the default.
[00:12:21] Ally: It leans in that way. I wouldn't be sure of it, but.
[00:12:25] Mike: That's so aggressive. I mean, i mean like imagine the pressure that puts on a guy. Like i I was just, I was just there by myself. I was like, Oh, like if someone sits next to me, I'm going to talk to him. If it was a guy, I would have talked to him probably too.
[00:12:35] Ally: Yeah.
[00:12:36] Mike: you know.
[00:12:37] Ally: If it's, yeah, if it's somehow like forced seating or assigned seating, you know, like if I'm on an airplane and the guy sitting next to me starts talking to me, I don't assume he wants to fuck me because like I'm his only option to talk to you. And so yeah, if you're all sitting around the bar and the only open stool is next to you and she sits there and you start talking to her, then I wouldn't assume anything by it.
[00:12:47] Mike: Okay.
[00:12:55] Mike: It wasn't quite what she sat down next to me. I didn't sit down next to her.
[00:12:58] Ally: Okay.
[00:12:58] Mike: um But okay.
[00:13:00] Ally: And yeah, she's being a little aggressive there. I don't, I mean, to answer Key's question, I don't think she's right in being annoyed at this because if the genders were reversed, you know, ah there would be no leg to stand on.
[00:13:10] Keith: i think she's i think she' is right I think she's right to be mildly annoyed, but she certainly can't vocally say it and like dress down Mike for doing it.
[00:13:10] Mike: We felt, yeah.
[00:13:17] Mike: She definitely did. and She didn't dress me down, but she was like, she, I don't know. She was irritated, like very clearly irritated.
[00:13:24] Keith: Yeah, but i and I think it's fine for her to be a little bit bummed. but Yeah, she can't. ah You didn't actually commit a wrong there. like It can't be assumed that any man ever talking to her is always trying to fuck her.
[00:13:33] Mike: Okay. The way I took.
[00:13:37] Keith: like That's not, yeah.
[00:13:37] Mike: I think she is, that's what Ali said. i mean the way i took it The way I took it was that I'd wasted her time, basically, that she had allocated her precious time that night before having to go to bed to be a cashier the next day to me.
[00:13:50] Ally: yes
[00:13:52] Mike: to me and Then she's like, fuck, if I had known this, I would have allocated someone else, which is weird to me because it's like that feels like a male mode of thinking. right It's like, sure, a guy might think that way because he's like, well, I only have this many hours to try to get my dick sucked tonight.
[00:14:05] Mike: But for a woman, it's like, I don't really feel like it should be that, uh, precise or stressful or whatever. You know, I don't know, but, but I don't know.
[00:14:13] Ally: Yeah.
[00:14:13] Mike: Why do women go to bars by themselves? I guess to get picked up.
[00:14:15] Ally: Well, I mean, I guess she's only ovulating for like 48 hours, right?
[00:14:19] Mike: No, interesting.
[00:14:19] Ally: So she ah she needs to get it done.
[00:14:21] Mike: I should have asked her if she was ah ovulating next time. If that happens, I will. That's a great question. It's like, Oh, are you ovulating?
[00:14:26] Keith: Yeah.
[00:14:28] Keith: Yeah, you could have been like, you know, excuse me, ma'am. I think that your hormonal cycle has you, uh, expecting an unreasonable thing here.
[00:14:31] Ally: yeah Yeah, Mike, you you should be weirder in general in your interactions with these people.
[00:14:36] Mike: Yeah.
[00:14:40] Ally: I think you're not being weird enough.
[00:14:41] Keith: He is weird.
[00:14:42] Ally: I know.
[00:14:42] Mike: I think I'm plenty weird.
[00:14:43] Keith: Ali.
[00:14:43] Mike: And there was another woman that talked to me who is, a lot of them are drunk too, that talked to me and I sussed out.
[00:14:43] Keith: Yeah.
[00:14:48] Mike: I was proud of myself with this. I sussed out that she was a dominatrix.
[00:14:51] Ally: Ooh.
[00:14:52] Mike: Yeah.
[00:14:52] Keith: What? How?
[00:14:53] Mike: Yeah.
[00:14:54] Ally: Yeah, how?
[00:14:54] Mike: She, she just, it was just her bearing in the things she said. And I was like, I was trying to figure out what was going on. And I was like, Oh, I know you dominate guys. She's like, yeah. And then, but she didn't, there wasn't that much detail because she wasn't, but I, you know, I asked a few questions.
[00:15:03] Ally: so
[00:15:08] Mike: Like she wouldn't tell me what that meant exactly. She's like, I don't want to say, I'm like, okay.
[00:15:14] Keith: Right.
[00:15:14] Mike: She probably, it was probably financial domination, let's be honest.
[00:15:18] Keith: I mean, women that can do that, I i admire.
[00:15:18] Mike: So.
[00:15:21] Keith: um All right, what else do you have for us?
[00:15:23] Mike: Okay. Uh, so yeah, there's this, I wanted to talk, I want to bring this up. I mean, we've talked about this before. Um, there's this, uh, subreddit called purple pill debate, but it's really purple pill is just like a combination of blue pill, which is supposed to be kind of beta guys and red pill, which is like the aggressive guy that, uh, women don't like, by the way, I think I told you this key red pill.
[00:15:40] Keith: It's moderate.
[00:15:43] Keith: No, purple pill are supposed to be moderate.
[00:15:45] Mike: Yeah, it's sort of moderate between them it's it's it's it's blue it's blue pill people and red people arguing. So basically it amounts to red pill men and women and women arguing or discussing.
[00:15:52] Keith: Right.
[00:15:53] Mike: and ah And I forgot, I think I don't think I mentioned this on podcasts, but I was at an another fine establishment like last month and I had a woman ask me if I was nagging her.
[00:16:05] Keith: Huh.
[00:16:06] Mike: And I admitted I was. and She didn't want to talk to me anymore. Anyway, but I was nagging her. and so that like And I know that's a reg pill thing. That's this idea that like women will say things in a social setting like that, and the guy like tries to sort of bring her down a little.
[00:16:18] Mike: And I actually think it sort of works.
[00:16:19] Ally: Thank you.
[00:16:20] Mike: People do it because it works. um It's like kind of banter that you're having. anyway
[00:16:25] Keith: situational, but sure.
[00:16:27] Mike: Yeah. So there's this thing called the cock carousel in the red pill theology slash in-cell theology. And that's the idea that women at a certain age, say under 30 or under 25, seek out a bunch of guys that are really attractive, have sex with them, and then later try to settle down with somebody. And the question that's posed here is why are men against girls riding the cock carousel? And so the obvious answer to that is guys don't want to be with, there's this notion that guys don't want to be with someone who's had a ton of previous partners, but the question is why. And let me read a bit of this.
[00:16:57] Mike: ah Sex is difficult for men to get. Men often have to prove themselves to get any romantic attention from women, from initiation of the date to continuing to maintain her interest. There's a lot of work, blah, blah, blah. You got to be tall, be funny, dress well, have a job, pass her shit tests, right? Which is when a woman puts you through a lot of stuff to see if you'll be loyal. Be better than previous guys, et cetera. Okay.
[00:17:15] Mike: ah Young men can be fooled as such into thinking that love and sex should be hard work, as in there's no so there's there's there is soft prostitution going on where women exchange intimacy for men's resources and protection. However, men begin to notice that women don't make some men work as hard, or women outright do all the work to gain their favor.
[00:17:35] Mike: ah These men are often more attractive and can get away with behavior less attractive men cannot. time So they call this guy that is more attractive. ah yeah There's two words you can use. You can use Chad or equivalent like Keith. ah She makes it much easier for Keith to get any romantic attention for Chad. I mean, to get her more attention from her than any other men while claiming the rules of engagement apply to all men. Then as she gets older, her opportunities to woo Chad with her magic vagina begin to dwindle. She gets more desperate.
[00:18:01] Mike: And then she reaches an epiphany phase, realizes they were always nice guys around her beta orbiters who she couldn't give a shit about, who fell over themselves to get attention. She suddenly sees them in a new light at age 32, reaches out via via social media, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she wants to get married and have have kids and so on and so forth. um So what happened was she increased the cost of sex or orbiters have to pay a higher price for access. OK, so there's an element of this. there There are answers to this. But one of the answers, another answer that people give is this notion that basically The woman will sort of set up her life in a way that when this sort of beta guy has to sort of deal with her later, she has a bunch of baggage. They talk about emotional baggage, but the main one they talk about is a woman who already has kids. And these people go nuts about this, that like there are these women who are who who will, and and and and in this forum, there's a zillion pictures like this from dating apps where a woman has one or two kids or won't be honest about whether she has kids.
[00:18:57] Mike: And, you know, the kids, the love of her life, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But ultimately, like they interpret that as look, she got knocked up by a Chad, had his kid, he dumped her because he has many other options. And now she's looking for a beta guy.
[00:19:09] Mike: And I'm curious, ah in particular, to hear Ali's take on like this kind of way of looking at female behavior in general, like how reasonable is this this sort of understanding of female behavior that these red pill people have?
[00:19:24] Ally: yeah Yeah, there are a lot of things combined here. So the first part about like, why would a woman have a lot of casual sex in her 20s or at her peak attractiveness, and then look to settle down in her early 30s, like, men do that as well, right? If you swap the genders, like, I think the situation is exactly the same, where it might make sense that as you're figuring your life out, or as you're taking advantage of peak attractiveness or something that you might want to do that, like not all people want to do that, whatever. But like, I think both genders do that. But then the question of like, I guess, dating once. Well, so the the comment that you read blames the subsequent behavior of women settling with kind of a beta Chad guy, but then not being satisfied in that relationship and maybe getting divorced or
[00:20:10] Ally: putting unrealistic expectations on that guy. The commenter blames that on her still being hung up on the Chad guy and wanting the Chad guy, which I think is interesting because it implies that there are some guys who are just better at all, like at all aspects of, you know, relationship having and fucking that like she not only wants to fuck the Chad guy, but she also wants to be in a relationship with the Chad guy and cannot.
[00:20:32] Ally: So it is kind of a self-defeating attitude to say like, oh, well, there's just these guys you know who who dominate me on every level who are just like categorically better. I mean, if you're asking, do I think that single moms have a hard time dating and that they should have a hard time dating? The answer is yes. Like I think you should be very, very careful about who you have a kid with. And it does lower your attractiveness to be the primary caretaker of a child.
[00:20:59] Mike: Okay, but hang on, so I think that's right.
[00:20:59] Ally: that makes sense
[00:21:00] Mike: Let me let me read another quote from another posting that someone made. ah This is from the subreddit, where are all the good men, which I just learned about from this purple pill one. the I'll just read the title.
[00:21:11] Mike: My boyfriend told me I was everything he wanted in a partner. And I told him I loved how safe he was because I had a habit of choosing bad boys and athletes who were fun but unpredictable. But now I wanted someone who would to be a good father and have a steady job.
[00:21:25] Mike: He then packed a bag and left. And then the people basically all defend this person saying like, yeah, like that's reasonable because he knows this is what's going to happen later. So you're saying you don't think that a person's behavior, male or female in their twenties, using their attractiveness, using their youth. You don't think that that's predictive of how the behavior in their thirties, that these guys are being unfair to basically be like, look, you're going to something shitty is going to happen.
[00:21:50] Ally: Yeah, I think it's unfair because I think a substantial portion of both genders do that.
[00:21:57] Keith: Yeah, but it's harder for men to do it.
[00:21:57] Mike: Okay.
[00:22:00] Ally: Is it?
[00:22:00] Mike: How do you?
[00:22:01] Keith: Yes, women don't have to impress men. Men must impress women. So if a man has slept with a bunch of women, it's impressive because it's really hard to sleep with a bunch of women.
[00:22:11] Keith: If a woman has slept with a bunch of men, it's not impressive because it's not hard. It's not as hard. So there's like a fundamental gap there.
[00:22:17] Ally: um just I'm just saying, I think a lot of men sleep around in their early 20s and then wait until their early 30s to get married and settle down.
[00:22:20] Keith: um Whereas,
[00:22:28] Mike: Who do you think like a five foot six ah Vietnamese descent man living in San Francisco is sleeping with it when he's 23? Can you just just describe the prototypical woman? Let's say he's had sex in your world with 10 women. Describe woman four.
[00:22:47] Ally: a and A five foot tall Vietnamese woman? I don't know.
[00:22:52] Mike: Right. You're having trouble coming up with it, right? Now, if I, if I switched it to, he's a six foot three, he sort of looks like the quarterback of the Cincinnati Bengals, uh, et cetera, like then it would be easy, right? You'd be like, well, every ah fair enough, but like yes it's easier for like the lens becomes much broader.
[00:23:02] Ally: I mean, it might still be that five foot tall Vietnamese woman.
[00:23:10] Mike: Like, like it's like the, you, you, you're now imagining a whole football field of people or whatever that would might have sex with them. But like this, the Vietnamese guy that I mentioned, like it's hard, right?
[00:23:19] Ally: Yeah, height is important for men in a way that it's not as important for women, for sure.
[00:23:21] Mike: kind
[00:23:25] Mike: Right. So then you're accepting an attractive Vietnamese guy.
[00:23:28] Ally: I mean, I think a six foot tall Vietnamese guy could also bag a bunch of women.
[00:23:35] Mike: that i Yeah, the the the race doesn't really matter. so So maybe your eyes are being opened here to the notion that there's some substantial population of men who actually in their 20s can't get sex.
[00:23:45] Mike: So maybe you have sex with one or two women, maybe prostitutes, cam girls,
[00:23:47] Ally: Oh, yeah. And there's a population of women who experience this also, and those are called ugly women, like they exist.
[00:23:56] Ally: Or, you know, very conservative women or like women on the spectrum or something like that. I definitely have a lot of friends, you know, imagine my college and like the people who I went to college with who are women, like a lot of them were not getting laid heavily in their early 20s either, they were kind of like uglier on the spectrum.
[00:24:10] Ally: And that's fine. They're they're lovely people. But like
[00:24:13] Mike: Okay, Keith, what do you think the ratio is of 20 something men who can't get sex to 20 something women who can't get sex? Because I admit that Ali's right, that's a thing.
[00:24:23] Keith: Yeah. I mean, I don't think Ali's really arguing the point that it's easier for women to get laid than it is for men.
[00:24:29] Mike: Well, she's using, a she's picking up, that was why I asked what the ratio is.
[00:24:29] Keith: like for
[00:24:32] Mike: She's using this example of women that I think is like a sub 20% cohort. It's something, it's a meaningful set of women that are unattractive and so forth, but but I think there's a much larger cohort of men who are in that Petri dish.
[00:24:46] Keith: Yes, I agree. But the the main problem here, I think, and that the thing that precipitated this discussion on the Purple Pill debate subreddit is that if a woman leverages her good looks when she's young to sleep with men who are very attractive but don't have much else going for them,
[00:25:12] Keith: It can cause some behaviors in those women later in life that are bad in a way that isn't the case in reverse. And it's not in the case in reverse for a couple of reasons. One, it's very hard for men to do that, even ah even a great looking man, um but particularly non-great looking men. And two, if a man has slept with a bunch of great looking, but without much else going on, women,
[00:25:35] Keith: that may not have the same negative consequences for that man's psyche later. I think that's the part of the discussion in that post anyway.
[00:25:46] Mike: So so the woman having had sex with all these guys is no longer able to bond or something with the guy she ultimately marries or she she's always comparing in her mind in a way that the guy isn't.
[00:25:57] Keith: I think it can be almost, yeah, I mean, it's sort of insipid. It's that she liked, the sort of nagging bad behavior of these athlete bad boys.
[00:26:08] Mike: Right.
[00:26:08] Keith: And she later settles for the the you know the quote unquote nice guy. And for the rest of her life, she's sort of thinking about that interesting ah you know sex she was having with these men that like didn't really shower her with much affection, but she like can't get that out of her head.
[00:26:27] Keith: And you know there's a wistfulness
[00:26:28] Ally: Do you think that would happen if it was just one really attractive guy that she had sex with? Like, let's say that she dated one really, really attractive guy for like a year and then settles for somebody less attractive.
[00:26:34] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:39] Ally: Like, isn't she also going to be thinking back to like, oh, that guy was really good.
[00:26:41] Keith: It's a fair point.
[00:26:42] Ally: in bed
[00:26:43] Keith: It's a fair point. But yeah, I think for each incremental person, especially each incremental lame person, there's a higher probability of some sort of downstream consequence of that in a way that is less less so for men.
[00:26:55] Mike: What's...
[00:26:57] Keith: Like a lot of men date crazy women in their youth, and then they don't really
[00:26:58] Mike: What was...
[00:27:03] Keith: fantasize about, or I don't imagine they fantasize about that as much as they age.
[00:27:09] Mike: What was his name, Ali?
[00:27:14] Ally: I think that men probably do fantasize about the hottest people that they slept with in their youth.
[00:27:14] Mike: Hmm...
[00:27:22] Ally: You think that they don't?
[00:27:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:27:23] Ally: I mean, that would be reassuring as a woman to think that the guy doesn't think about, you know, previous partners in that way.
[00:27:23] Mike: Not an...
[00:27:29] Mike: I think not in a world of porn because there's, there's like a, it's just a better fantasization, fantasizing tool.
[00:27:31] Keith: you know
[00:27:36] Mike: You might a little, I don't know. What do you think Keith?
[00:27:38] Keith: I don't really, I don't really fantasize about previous partners generally.
[00:27:39] Mike: I feel like, yeah.
[00:27:42] Keith: Now I have an issue where i I tire of sexual partners quicker than most, but it doesn't really refract to eventually fantasizing about them ever.
[00:27:52] Ally: Oh, that's really interesting.
[00:27:52] Keith: But that's just my experience.
[00:27:52] Mike: yeah But
[00:27:53] Ally: but
[00:27:53] Keith: I think my experience might be a little bit unusual.
[00:27:55] Mike: But porn doesn't play a role in that. cu Like you just have like this flood of new sort of partners.
[00:27:59] Keith: it's Yeah, i I far prefer porn to like imagining former partners.
[00:28:03] Mike: Yeah.
[00:28:06] Ally: Hmm.
[00:28:06] Mike: Yeah, that seems well, it's more present present. It's there's more detail more can be going on there.
[00:28:14] Keith: Yeah.
[00:28:15] Mike: Um, uh, so you don't want to tell us about the guy anyway. All right. That was it. Uh, yeah. I mean, I, uh, oh, I will im admit one, one more closing question on this topic. Do either of you think ah setting aside the scenario where like it's, you know, you're dating, so potentially dating somebody who has a kid who's like 18 or 16 that's different, I think, but would you either, either of you, do you either of you think that a 32 year old guy should date a woman that has a two year old kid?
[00:28:44] Ally: No.
[00:28:45] Mike: Right. So you agree.
[00:28:46] Ally: Yeah.
[00:28:46] Mike: What do you think? So basically it's like, but yeah, you're basically picking up her mistake and you just shouldn't do it.
[00:28:49] Keith: ah
[00:28:53] Ally: Yeah.
[00:28:55] Mike: Yeah.
[00:28:56] Keith: Yeah, I mean, I think of course there are exceptions, but in general, it's a very, very, very bad filter.
[00:29:02] Mike: Right. So that's sort of the point these guys are making is like the, yeah, the worry is like they went and they got knocked up by a Chad and now they're, although maybe you wouldn't process it the same way. You would just think, Oh, it's, it's life chaos that they're bringing on.
[00:29:13] Mike: Like the guy, I think it's the the guys, at least in this purple pill thing, it's more than that, right? It's like, it's, it's, it's that they're mad.
[00:29:19] Ally: Yeah. i mean
[00:29:21] Mike: They're mad that she went and did this. She like basically gave her uterus to some other guy.
[00:29:23] Ally: And they should be. They should be. So women don't understand the way that men view their own children. And I say this having now dated three guys who have kids.
[00:29:35] Mike: That's right, you've done this. Yeah.
[00:29:38] Ally: So I think it's very different. I think the situation of a man dating a woman who has kids is very different than the situation of a woman dating a man who has kids because men do not value or care about their kids in the same way that women do and it's super interesting and I think that women should know about this and like experience this before having children because the way that a man with kids who is separated or divorced from his partner views those kids is like not I think the way that a woman wants a guy to think about the children that they're going to have with this person like
[00:30:05] Mike: Wait, can you say more about that? i this This is interesting. i I've never heard this one before. And and i would i would I want to compare it to how I view my kids. like maybe i what do i What am I doing?
[00:30:15] Ally: Well, you're not, I mean, you're not separated.
[00:30:16] Mike: No, no, but go on. I just want to hear.
[00:30:17] Ally: You're like, you're happily married. So maybe, like, maybe that's because you have the good, you know, the view of your children that like she would want.
[00:30:23] Mike: Well, ah tell me, what are are like the top two things that come to mind when you think about these guys and what you consider not the way you as a woman would? I mean, you guard your uterus very carefully, so there's been no children in there that I know of.
[00:30:35] Ally: Yeah. Yeah. But I just, I think that women who want to have kids should talk to divorced men with kids or even like you know try dating some of them to see what it's like.
[00:30:43] Mike: but what did what What happens?
[00:30:46] Ally: they just They just don't care. I mean, they care a little bit, but like they are happier away from their kids. It doesn't bother them to live a life that doesn't involve the kids at all. like they They just view themselves as much more distanced from the children than basically all mothers that I know view their kids.
[00:31:06] Ally: like The mothers that I know view their kids as an extension of them, and then the fathers that I know who are separated from their partners and like you know don't live with their kids all the time, view them as like, oh, that's a cool individual. you know like It's just like a very hands-off way of approaching this like extremely momentous decision to create another person.
[00:31:25] Keith: Is that bad?
[00:31:27] Mike: It sounds normal to me.
[00:31:28] Keith: Like, isn't it irrational to subjugate your life to your children? Like, why have children then?
[00:31:34] Ally: Well, I agree. And I basically think that no one should have children. But I think this is my personal weird view. But like yeah, i I agree with you.
[00:31:40] Keith: I don't think it's weird.
[00:31:40] Ally: I think having kids is a weird decision.
[00:31:41] Keith: I think it's enlightened. And I think we i think our sort of DNA encoding encourages us us to think otherwise, especially women. But I don't think it's, well, I guess it's weird in that it's unusual.
[00:31:53] Keith: I don't think it's weird in that it's bad.
[00:31:56] Mike: You think it's enlightened to not want to have kids. I just want to be clear.
[00:31:58] Keith: I think it's enlightened to not subjugate your life to your children.
[00:32:02] Mike: That's a little different than what Ali said, but okay. I guess what, yeah probably the point, the the reason you say it differently is that Ali as a woman is thinking to herself, well, if I had a kid, then I would be forced psychologically to subjugate my life to it because I'm a woman.
[00:32:15] Mike: but That's probably right, actually.
[00:32:15] Keith: Right.
[00:32:16] Ally: Yeah, people have described that as well, that there is a physiological change that happens with pregnancy hormones, whatever your brain reconfigures. I don't know the exact details, but that yeah, that you are psychologically like a different person as a mother having had a kid and that it does make you want to do that.
[00:32:29] Keith: Yeah, fine. i'm
[00:32:31] Ally: And i don't want it I don't want that to happen to me. So like, I don't want i don't want to do that.
[00:32:34] Keith: Yeah, I mean, I would be a psychologically different person if I got on a fentanyl drip.
[00:32:34] Ally: but
[00:32:35] Mike: Fair.
[00:32:38] Keith: I'm sure I would be much euphoric and much happier all the time, but I don't do it.
[00:32:38] Ally: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:42] Keith: And so like just because something changes your brain chemistry to make you feel something differently doesn't make it true.
[00:32:50] Mike: Well, it's the way you feel. So I mean, truth is kind of subjective in that case, but yeah.
[00:32:53] Keith: Yeah, I know, but like why not just get on a fentanyl drip instead of having kids? If you want to like, okay, okay, okay.
[00:32:59] Mike: Because they want to do something all natural, man, they're getting high on life.
[00:33:03] Keith: Yeah, like if you wanna reconfigure your brain, there are other ways.
[00:33:03] Mike: I think, but I think the way, Yeah. I think the way these guys feel about the kids, like as a married person with kids, I think that's, yeah, it's pretty recognizable to me.
[00:33:11] Ally: Yeah,
[00:33:12] Mike: Yeah. And I think it's probably adaptive. Like that's probably how men and women are supposed to sort of think about kids.
[00:33:16] Ally: no I agree.
[00:33:17] Keith: Yeah, I think it's fine to like like your kids. I have nieces and nephews and they're great and I really care about them, but I'm not gonna make my life worse by like seven units to make their life better by one unit, which is the way that like all mothers behave almost all of the time.
[00:33:29] Mike: Right.
[00:33:32] Keith: Like that just seems like, why are you having children?
[00:33:33] Mike: Right.
[00:33:33] Ally: Yeah.
[00:33:36] Ally: And in talking to mothers or reading stories, like mothers find it very emotionally
[00:33:37] Keith: If you knew that was the deal.
[00:33:42] Ally: disturbing, like to travel away from their kids. There's all these stories about like, oh, you know, the first time I had to take a business trip away from my kid, like they were one, it felt so horrible to leave them. I was calling home every two hours.
[00:33:50] Keith: Right.
[00:33:51] Ally: Like men do not feel that, like men are totally happy to like ditch that kid, which is great for me as somebody dating them who doesn't want to spend all her time around kids.
[00:33:56] Keith: Right.
[00:33:59] Ally: But like, I imagine if I were that person's baby mama, I would feel weird about that.
[00:34:03] Keith: Yeah.
[00:34:05] Ally: I would, you know, I would not like that.
[00:34:07] Keith: Yeah, I would too. If I were subjugating my life for my children and my husband was off fucking somebody else um and not really thinking about the kids that much, I think I would be unhappy as well.
[00:34:17] Ally: yeah yeah
[00:34:19] Mike: No, move on.
[00:34:19] Ally: yeah
[00:34:20] Keith: So, um, even if I were divorced from him, I would just be extremely resentful. But yeah, anyway, um, you get, did you guys want to say anything else on this?
[00:34:26] Ally: oh
[00:34:32] Keith: um I found this pretty interesting post on Reddit and I want you guys to think about what kind of man this is as I as i read them.
[00:34:42] Ally: Yeah.
[00:34:42] Keith: So this was on the dating subreddit and this man, he doesn't say his age, but he says, what a complete waste of time first dates are.
[00:34:44] Ally: Yeah.
[00:34:50] Keith: Here's a compilation of the messages I've been sent following every first date I've been on in recent weeks and months. Here's the first one. Having sat with my feelings for a day, I wanted to let you know I'm not feeling the connection I was looking for after last night.
[00:35:02] Keith: It was lovely to meet you. You're a great guy and deserved to find what you're looking for. Message two. I had a nice, a really nice time, especially the end, but I got more of a friend vibe from tonight. I hope that's okay. Message three.
[00:35:12] Mike: Jesus.
[00:35:12] Keith: Yeah, you too. Was nice to meet you, but I wasn't really feeling a spark. Wish you all the best though. Message four. Thank you for coming out last night. It was fun. I've enjoyed hanging out and getting to know you, but I don't think I'm feeling the spark that I should at this stage. Sorry. I know this has been a cliche. All the best. Thanks for meeting today. It was nice talking to you, but I want to be honest, but I'm not feeling the connection. Hope you understand. I wish you all the best. Uh, I'm going to read the last three message six. It was nice to meet you, but I don't think I really felt a connection. All the best with everything though.
[00:35:42] Keith: Message seven. I've been thinking since we met up the other day. I had a lovely time with you, but I don't think the chemistry is there. I'm really sorry. I thought you deserved honesty. XX final one. Not sure what you're looking for on the apps. Don't know that there was a romantic connection there, but I enjoyed your company. I'd like to hear more of your one liners. And this guy wraps it up. Same shit every single time. And all this is the result of me just being myself, which is apparently what you're supposed to do, which obviously means I'm not attractive, interesting, charismatic, or funny enough for dating.
[00:36:07] Keith: At 31, with no prior long-term relationship experience, it's too late to start now anyway, so I'm supposed to, so so I suppose I'm better off giving up and finding other things to focus on. um I don't receive messages like this very often, ah and that this guy's getting a, I don't know, ca cavalcade of them, says something about him, and I have some theories, but do you guys wanna speculate first?
[00:36:36] Mike: I have one thing to say ah that just popped into my head, which is like this might help me understand, these messages might help me understand the purpose of the nagging thing, the red pill people do, where you sort of say kind of casually things that are kind of negative to a woman. It might be due triage much more quickly on the date so you don't have to get a message like this. like In other words, you you see if the woman's willing to stick with you through you saying something that's not completely complimentary. so She'll just fucking tell you. You just know immediately. like You create a little friction or tension in this situation so that she'll just react with an honest reaction. like This guy's getting
[00:37:16] Mike: He's obviously, in my view, he's like talking to his women and they're being polite to him, but he's never challenging them. So it's just like he can't, teeth they're hiding their emotional tone from him. That's my, that's my initial reaction.
[00:37:29] Keith: Ali.
[00:37:31] Ally: Yeah, I assume from these messages that he's submissive in some way or um you know a not very not very charismatic because all of the messages are saying, you know, like,
[00:37:40] Keith: Yeah.
[00:37:46] Ally: chemistry wasn't there and they're doing it in a way that seems like they feel like they have to take care of his feelings and like, you know, buck him up in some way like as they're rejecting him.
[00:37:55] Keith: I guess.
[00:37:55] Ally: I mean, I also, I also don't get messages like this, but I also don't send messages like this.
[00:37:56] Keith: Yeah.
[00:37:59] Ally: Like if there's no spark, either we both understand that during the date basically immediately and then just don't talk to each other again or like you know, things just kind of tail off. Maybe we go on two dates and then neither of us gets in contact the other again. So I do think that also implies this guy is sort of socially awkward in a way where he's not reading the signals. Like he should know after the date that there was no spark there if she feels that way also.
[00:38:28] Mike: Yeah, I wanted to note one other thing just quickly.
[00:38:28] Keith: I mean, yeah how do I let a loser down easily?
[00:38:31] Mike: then The notes all, there were there were um eerily similar words in the notes, making it sound like they're either asking chat GPT or they're like, there's some forum somewhere where women share these messages because they were like,
[00:38:45] Mike: Yeah. There were like overlaps.
[00:38:46] Ally: Yeah.
[00:38:47] Mike: Like I noticed that too. Like it was, it was strange. Like if I was him, I would feel, if I were him, I would feel bad getting these messages that are so eerily similar and be like, what the fuck's going on here?
[00:38:55] Keith: Yeah, I mean, safe to say he's doing something obviously wrong. I don't know, or he's obviously doing something wrong. I would be curious to watch him and see what it is. He's getting the dates, which implies that he can't be horrible looking, but the way that these are worded makes it just so clear that these women think they're superior to him.
[00:39:09] Mike: Yeah.
[00:39:18] Keith: And yeah, he's doing something that yeah, he's, he's bettaed himself so much that he's not even getting ghosted.
[00:39:29] Keith: It's like worse than getting ghosted. They're like, they're, they're so not intrigued by him that they're comfortable.
[00:39:32] Ally: Yeah.
[00:39:36] Keith: sending him the shit sandwich cause they just don't care what he thinks. Like a lot of women ghost people cause they're worried about hurting the man's feelings.
[00:39:40] Ally: Yeah.
[00:39:43] Keith: These women don't care about hurting his feelings. Like they're, they're pretending, I guess, or they're paying lip service to like taking care of his feelings, but really they're just doing this to pay down their own guilt about not being interested in him.
[00:39:56] Keith: Cause most women don't do this.
[00:39:57] Mike: It's a good take, yeah.
[00:39:58] Keith: So it's, I mean, it's really sad, right?
[00:39:59] Ally: Yeah, because like other another reason for ghosting him would be like if they thought there was any possibility that this guy might be like a booty caller that like maybe they'll reconsider. They just wouldn't say anything.
[00:40:07] Keith: Right.
[00:40:08] Ally: But like yeah, they're completely shutting down.
[00:40:09] Keith: Right. Or, or if the man is like obviously superior to them, they're not going to send the message like, Oh, I didn't feel a spark. They're just going to self-select themselves out and they're like too embarrassed to even send a message.
[00:40:21] Mike: Wait, Ali. Okay. So if you go on a first date with somebody, there's a booty call bucket. Like there's like, I want a second date. There's, I'm not interested, but there's another bucket for like, yeah, if I'm really hard up and horny, I'll call this guy.
[00:40:34] Mike: Is that, is that real?
[00:40:35] Ally: yeah
[00:40:36] Mike: Like, whoa.
[00:40:36] Ally: Yeah.
[00:40:37] Mike: And you would ghost him in that situation. What would you do to keep him available with some dick?
[00:40:43] Ally: I definitely wouldn't you know write back the next day or something like, oh, I had a great time. I would probably wait like five days or something and then like you know send him a link to a news article or like bring up something that we talked about.
[00:40:55] Ally: like you know Ask him something that's kind of not asking him on a date, you know not referencing a date.
[00:40:59] Mike: That's the kind of stuff you send me.
[00:41:01] Ally: No.
[00:41:02] Mike: Oh, am I in the booty call bucket? Okay. So hang on. What gets a guy into the booty call bucket? Like who would be, what's what's the archetype for you of a guy that you have a first date with and and you're like, nah, but his cock might feel good.
[00:41:16] Mike: Is it physical attractiveness?
[00:41:17] Ally: Well, so for example, like a guy I dated, I don't know, like four months ago or whatever, before getting together with my current partner. um Personality-wise, I don't think we were a match. He was very hyper to the extent that I thought he might be on cocaine. And then I was like, maybe this is a guy who I can get cocaine from.
[00:41:35] Ally: But he was interesting. He had like an interesting job. He had a lot of like interesting hobbies. He had just moved to San Francisco from New York. like He was like interesting to talk to. I just thought there was not relationship potential. But it didn't mean that I you know would never enjoy hanging out with this guy again. So it gets moved to like a you know not serious bucket.
[00:41:58] Mike: When you say hanging out with, that's a synonym for his cock sliding into you.
[00:42:02] Keith: Thank you.
[00:42:11] Ally: Basically, yes, but also possibly just sharing some light cocaine and walking around a park.
[00:42:17] Mike: i I heard on Fox News, so you know it's true, that you can get cocaine in San Francisco in a neighborhood I heard is called the Tenderloin, just by basically going up to anybody. Is that true?
[00:42:27] Mike: I mean, why why are you having so much trouble getting cocaine in California?
[00:42:31] Ally: So I actually I'm very afraid to do this because of the fentanyl issue.
[00:42:32] Mike: Okay.
[00:42:35] Ally: I have no way of knowing whether whatever cocaine I would get would be safe or if it was going to kill me, so I ah just won't.
[00:42:42] Mike: Okay. Let's not talk, we should probably not talk about illegal drugs here because there's no, no benefit to anybody, but I'm a little curious about that. I've never used a cocaine.
[00:42:51] Ally: I haven't either, but I'm curious about it.
[00:42:52] Keith: Me neither.
[00:42:52] Mike: oh ah The reason I haven't used it is because when I first might've had the opportunity, I became aware of some basketball player.
[00:42:54] Ally: It might make me more productive. I don't know.
[00:43:01] Mike: I'm sure Keith knows this story who like supposedly took it for the first time and just died. This was in the nineties.
[00:43:05] Keith: Oh yeah, yeah.
[00:43:07] Mike: And I was like, I'm not, well, I'm not doing that.
[00:43:10] Keith: Yeah, he was the second pick of the draft and I think he died the night he got drafted.
[00:43:10] Mike: I'm sure I,
[00:43:14] Ally: o
[00:43:15] Keith: It was brutal.
[00:43:15] Mike: I'm sure like he, I don't know. I don't want to, you know, defame the guy, but I'm sure he took a lot or something. I'm sure it wasn't just like a normal situation, although I, who knows, but that.
[00:43:23] Ally: yeah But like the amount of fentanyl that will kill you is so small. like Even if you test part of the cocaine, like if you don't test the part that has the fentanyl in it, it's a hard problem.
[00:43:34] Mike: Brutal.
[00:43:36] Ally: yeah
[00:43:36] Mike: Yeah.
[00:43:36] Keith: What's the benefit of cutting cocaine with fentanyl? Is fentanyl cheaper?
[00:43:40] Mike: Price, I assume. Yeah.
[00:43:43] Ally: I think I'm getting people more addicted to it.
[00:43:46] Keith: God, yeah, that's awful. All right, let's move on. um Oh yeah, I wanted to talk about this one. All right, this person says, I'm worried that I've spoiled my fiance. We've been together for over eight years. I was her first everything. Here's how our sex goes 99% of the time since She got an IUD a few years ago.
[00:44:04] Keith: One, I kiss her all over, down her neck, chest, and stomach for several minutes, then eat her out until she comes. Two, she sucks my dick for two minutes or so until her jaw gets tired.
[00:44:12] Ally: I don't know.
[00:44:13] Keith: I'm a little on the bigger side, but nothing crazy. Three, we fuck hard and fast until we both come at nears at the same time. Now, this sex is fantastic. Mike's not gonna like that she's coming twice, but all right.
[00:44:24] Ally: Absolutely.
[00:44:25] Mike: Well, and at the same time as him, I'm very skeptical, but go on.
[00:44:27] Keith: right right right right all right now this sex is fantastic and i love it but it's all we do i think she's made me come from a blowjob once in the last five years i've tried many many times to switch things up but she basically refuses to touch me at all until step one from above is finished sometimes she'll weigh lingerie for me and as soon as it's on she lies down in bed for waiting for step one How do I talk about this with her without being a dick? I don't want to imply that she's not enough for me and the sex itself is great and she's an active participant. I just want her to take the initiative sometimes and focus on me first. I want to feel wanted right now. It's like she's only doing it because she gets orgasms out of it. um I think that people often get into a pattern with their sex. Like if they've had a long term partner, I think
[00:45:10] Keith: there's one mode or maybe there's like two or three modes that get round robin and it's always the same sort of like bag of tricks and I think if this man wants that to change materially it's up to him to direct the show a bit differently because generally it's up to the man.
[00:45:27] Mike: I don't know, does the woman care? What do you think, Ali? Have you had this experience in a long-term relationship of a kind of a typical pattern? And if so, how would you want it to be broken? I know from talking to you on the podcast, I know you want your ass beaten.
[00:45:39] Ally: Yeah.
[00:45:41] Mike: And so probably these are guys who aren't doing that. and so so So the point is, I know there's a thing you want. You want to be physically injured, um at least some during the experience. And that would amp it up for you.
[00:45:50] Ally: green
[00:45:50] Mike: But how would you want that to happen? i see And I'm guessing you've had a long-term partner who wouldn't do that for you.
[00:45:53] Ally: yeah
[00:45:55] Mike: I know you have. so
[00:45:56] Ally: Almost all of them. would Yeah.
[00:45:59] Mike: Do you have conversations? do you do you but or you're You're not probably willing to direct the show as the woman, I'm guessing.
[00:46:05] Ally: No, and it's the kind of thing where you don't want to ask someone you know, to be more dominant because then that's not being dominant. Like then they are still taking your direction in in being dominant. So it kind of doesn't work. But the pattern generally I've experienced where you fall into a routine of having sex at the same time of day or in the same position or the same order of positions. And it can be kind of embarrassing to bring that to light and say like, we and you know we've been doing it this way for the past three months. like
[00:46:40] Ally: Let's try something different. um
[00:46:43] Mike: So what happens? Nothing. It just stays that way. And then you break up with him.
[00:46:47] Ally: No, well, I mean, usually, eventually, I'll suggest something else. And then like we'll do something else that one time.
[00:46:53] Keith: yeah
[00:46:53] Ally: And then the next time, it'll go back to kind of whatever the pattern was before.
[00:46:58] Keith: Yeah.
[00:46:58] Mike: So it doesn't work. If you were in this pattern that this this pattern, this guy describes, you know, you Keith went through it nicely.
[00:46:59] Ally: That's a work out.
[00:47:04] Mike: What would you, what would you want to have be the changeup or the curveball doggy style?
[00:47:10] Keith: Probably him not going down on her.
[00:47:13] Ally: Right. yeah I mean, me personally, yeah.
[00:47:15] Mike: Well, okay, fine.
[00:47:15] Ally: Doggy style would be great, like different situations for having sex, different places in the house, different times of day. um Having it be a surprise is nice, where it's not like, oh, we're in bed.
[00:47:24] Mike: Huh.
[00:47:29] Ally: You know, we've put down our books, we start kissing, like this very obvious progression, it would be nice if it is just sort of spontaneous and unexpected.
[00:47:39] Mike: If it's a surprise, isn't that like risky though? Because you might then reject him.
[00:47:45] Ally: Yeah, I mean.
[00:47:45] Mike: Maybe you wouldn't as a highly sexual lady, but well, no, for him too, he might get rejected.
[00:47:46] Keith: It's no downside to her.
[00:47:49] Ally: Yeah, yeah, there's no words for me that's true.
[00:47:51] Mike: Okay. There's no doubt. Right. No doubt.
[00:47:52] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:52] Mike: So, okay.
[00:47:56] Keith: You read before you have sex. Do you read after as well or do you go to bed after?
[00:48:03] Ally: Sometimes, yeah, sometimes we'll read but after, and so.
[00:48:08] Keith: Depending on how good the sex was.
[00:48:09] Mike: Do you read during?
[00:48:09] Ally: More. No. We haven't figured out how to do that yet.
[00:48:14] Mike: Well, there no ah there's some good tips.
[00:48:15] Keith: I guess I would work.
[00:48:15] Mike: there's There's a subreddit called Bored and Ignored that I think Keith has mentioned before. And on there, they have women who do all manner of activity, cooking, playing video games, reading, and so forth during sex.
[00:48:20] Ally: Yeah.
[00:48:25] Mike: So you could see how they do it.
[00:48:26] Ally: and Yeah.
[00:48:29] Mike: um
[00:48:29] Ally: More likely, I guess, that after we would just go to sleep. But You know, it gets dark early. If you're getting in bed at like 8.30, you might have a second wind after having sex.
[00:48:39] Keith: right poor guy
[00:48:44] Mike: You get embedded 830.
[00:48:46] Ally: Sometimes, yeah.
[00:48:48] Mike: Wow. So wait, when you set a second wind, you read fuck, then read more than fuck again, and then read again.
[00:48:54] Ally: No, basically we would fuck once. he just so You know, the the guy I'm dating is basically 50 years old, so he's only having sex once in an evening.
[00:49:04] Mike: Huh. He has a broken penis and not a great bench press as I heard.
[00:49:07] Ally: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
[00:49:08] Keith: yeah
[00:49:09] Mike: So yeah.
[00:49:11] Keith: all right let's Let's move on. all right um How do you all do it so often? How do people have sex so often and enjoy it? I feel like a piece of shit for not giving this to my partner even though he's beyond kind about it.
[00:49:22] Mike: I was gonna say this is a woman, yeah.
[00:49:23] Keith: yeah have to change You have to shave half your body shower right before and after can't be hungry, but also can't be full. You have to spend 90% of your energy trying to focus on the sensations and not the thoughts.
[00:49:34] Keith: You have to will yourself into being in the mood. The bed gets all sweaty and gross. So now you have to wash the sheets and duvets your joints and or back hurts in the contortionist positions.
[00:49:40] Mike: Fat.
[00:49:42] Keith: You have to be in the smell and silence, not at your mind.
[00:49:43] Mike: Definitely fat.
[00:49:45] Keith: You keep dancing on the line of finishing, but you can't do it. And you're getting in your head about it. And your partner is getting tired. You guys do this more than once a week. How?
[00:49:52] Mike: They're both fat.
[00:49:53] Ally: Yeah, this person is making sex too complicated and probably doesn't enjoy sex ever.
[00:49:56] Mike: i
[00:50:00] Keith: I feel like she does a good job describing the downsides of sex though.
[00:50:01] Ally: i won't no
[00:50:04] Keith: When she puts it that way, it doesn't sound that great.
[00:50:05] Ally: you Do you shower both before and after and wash all of your bedding after every time you have sex?
[00:50:07] Mike: When people wash their bedding,
[00:50:12] Ally: Because I definitely don't do that.
[00:50:13] Keith: Am I supposed to be doing that? Because I apologize to my partners if so.
[00:50:20] Ally: Yeah.
[00:50:22] Keith: People have sex on a bed?
[00:50:23] Mike: The fuck?
[00:50:26] Keith: um I mean, I don't go for a run and then you know, let it fester and then have sex hours later.
[00:50:33] Mike: Yeah.
[00:50:34] Keith: I i generally have decent hygiene so that at any time I'm i'm ready ready to go. ah And if I'm not, I would shower before, but that doesn't happen.
[00:50:43] Mike: I think like the the key thing here is that like ah setting aside the the man and the woman, I think both have some fitness problems, but the woman, the key thing here is that the woman's not orgasming in my view.
[00:50:57] Mike: So she's like dancing on the edge of whatever she said, something there. And it's like, yeah, like it's just not, it's all this work and she's not getting the, the, the, you know, the fentanyl drip, as you said.
[00:51:08] Keith: Yeah, I think I would feel that way if I did all the things that involved that were involved with having sex and like and then I never orgasmed. I think I would be kind of annoyed with the whole charade of it all.
[00:51:20] Mike: Although women often don't orgasm. Like, do you feel like this at all? If you have sex and don't orgasm, Ali, or do you always make sure you get yours? You ride the face or whatever. Oh, no, you don't want that. You ride, ride his finger, whatever.
[00:51:31] Ally: Yeah, i I don't always come, but I also don't do as much preparation as this woman seems to. So I don't feel like it's not worth it.
[00:51:37] Mike: Oh, what steps do you skip?
[00:51:39] Ally: ah
[00:51:41] Ally: Well, I don't always shower right before or after, like usually I am clean enough.
[00:51:49] Mike: Okay.
[00:51:49] Keith: People shave?
[00:51:53] Ally: Yeah, I don't shave specifically for sex.
[00:51:55] Mike: She saves for new partners. She's told me that before. So like, she's probably a right around at the situation with her relationship right now where she's, she's getting a bush, I'm guessing.
[00:52:04] Ally: Yeah, well, I mean, I'll also tell you that like a 50 year old man doesn't necessarily have the same
[00:52:06] Mike: may
[00:52:10] Ally: preferences pubic hair wise as as a younger man, but.
[00:52:12] Mike: Fair point.
[00:52:13] Keith: Doesn't he or is he just trying to be polite and, and you know, but feminist?
[00:52:18] Ally: Well, so we've discussed this and he said that like totally shaven is good, but then like some pubic hair is also good and that what he doesn't like is the like, you know, one to two days after being totally shaven when it's growing out.
[00:52:30] Ally: So it's like either, you know, shave every day or don't shave basically.
[00:52:31] Mike: Huh.
[00:52:36] Ally: And he's like, both of those are good.
[00:52:36] Keith: Yeah.
[00:52:38] Ally: And I'm like, well, one of those is easier than the other.
[00:52:41] Keith: Yeah, right.
[00:52:44] Mike: Yeah. But then you have the risk that you, there can be an amount of hair that becomes, oh, you don't want oral, I guess. Yeah. He probably doesn't care actually.
[00:52:53] Keith: Yeah, that's the thing.
[00:52:53] Mike: Like genuine, in that case, like genuinely, it probably doesn't matter.
[00:52:58] Mike: It's just a visual aesthetic at that point. like all that yeah Or laser.
[00:53:01] Keith: I mean, you rarely see him for more than a few days at a time. So you could wax and that would get rid of the stubble problem.
[00:53:09] Ally: Yeah, I've never tried waxing.
[00:53:13] Keith: Or laser.
[00:53:13] Ally: Yeah.
[00:53:14] Keith: Although I think laser takes five to 10 rounds depending on.
[00:53:17] Mike: But it's permanent.
[00:53:18] Ally: Yeah.
[00:53:19] Keith: Yeah.
[00:53:20] Ally: Well, these are also things I could look into.
[00:53:21] Mike: You can. You get a tattoo on there. Do you have any tattoos on your pubic area?
[00:53:24] Ally: I don't have any tattoos at all.
[00:53:28] Keith: we We are three people that are all tattoo free.
[00:53:28] Mike: I think you should get one. Oh, Ali, what would it take to get you to tattoo YMMV on your pubis?
[00:53:36] Ally: No.
[00:53:36] Mike: It'd be awesome. And it would be but do dual meaning. They're like, why does why is your vagina not always good? You're like, no, no, it's a podcast. Don't worry.
[00:53:47] Ally: Yeah, well, let's see. How much money would I need to have in order to never work again? It would probably be around that amount.
[00:53:52] Mike: How would it prevent you from having to work? I mean, it's hidden and you could grow your pubic hair anyway, and then it would disappear. Just be a little secret.
[00:53:59] Ally: Yeah, no, I'm i'm not saying having the tattoo editor working. I'm saying like, you know, what is the amount of money I would require to do something that I would find
[00:54:04] Mike: Oh, repulsive.
[00:54:07] Ally: visually unappealing yeah to my own body, and it's probably around that amount.
[00:54:10] Mike: Okay. Okay.
[00:54:12] Keith: I think I would do it for 100,000.
[00:54:15] Ally: That's low, dude.
[00:54:16] Keith: I know, I know you guys, I knew you guys would say that, that's why that's why I'm declaring.
[00:54:20] Mike: it's actually I think I would find it hard to care. I'll tell you that the situation where I would care, the only situation where I would, because but a man typically has pubic hair, so it's like it would be invisible for the most part.
[00:54:23] Ally: and
[00:54:30] Mike: would the only situation i' I'd care about the pain and getting it, and I would care about the like they being in the men's locker room. It's mainly that. so like yeah's so i mean like i've had um yeah Being in the men's locker room, like that's that actually is a reason
[00:54:37] Keith: Oh, yeah.
[00:54:43] Mike: I don't want to shave my nuts in my pubic area anyway, but I, even if I wanted to, I wouldn't because of that. Because like, if you're in like a men's locker room, my swim club, there's like seven shower heads.
[00:54:55] Mike: Everybody can see everybody. And let me tell you, there's never been one guy there that has cock and balls shaved. And so if I go in and I'm the one guy, like people are going to be like, what's going on here?
[00:55:03] Keith: Yeah.
[00:55:04] Mike: Like it's, I can't go in the sauna. I can't like, there's all these things that become really complicated to use because, because people are going to think that I'm like,
[00:55:08] Keith: Right.
[00:55:09] Ally: Yeah.
[00:55:13] Mike: Minimum gay, I guess. Like, it's just a little weird. Like, they're going to be a little nervous around me.
[00:55:17] Keith: Yeah. You spend more time.
[00:55:18] Mike: They're going to hide their kids' eyes.
[00:55:20] Ally: How many other men do you think you've seen naked in your life?
[00:55:21] Keith: You spend more time.
[00:55:24] Keith: Many Mike spends a lot of time.
[00:55:25] Mike: Hundreds. Yeah.
[00:55:26] Ally: hundreds Okay.
[00:55:26] Keith: I was going to say, spends a lot of time in places publicly naked, more than the average person.
[00:55:31] Ally: Okay.
[00:55:31] Mike: Wait, what?
[00:55:33] Mike: No, I mean, I don't know what he's trying to say there, but like just at showers, like gyms and stuff.
[00:55:36] Keith: No, I'm not, right.
[00:55:38] Mike: Yeah, nothing weird.
[00:55:39] Ally: ah Okay.
[00:55:39] Keith: I don't, I mean, it's extremely rare for me to be public.
[00:55:40] Mike: um
[00:55:40] Ally: like
[00:55:44] Keith: and In fact, the last time might've been with you, Mike, when we went to like the Stanford pool or were at the gym at work or something.
[00:55:50] Mike: What, how do you, how do you manage that? Do you just, if you go to the gym, you, uh, Oh, I see.
[00:55:53] Keith: I don't go to the gym, right? I just run. um And the gym next to my house ah has a shower, but I live a block away, so I use my shower here.
[00:55:56] Mike: I see. That makes sense.
[00:56:02] Mike: Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. No, I, I, I am ah much more commonly like, yeah. Like ah when I do like a morning masters swim.
[00:56:11] Keith: Right.
[00:56:11] Mike: Uh, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people in there naked. There's just a lot of cock.
[00:56:15] Keith: Yeah. I was just thinking, I was just thinking like, you know, the amount of people that are going to see this area in my life going forward. I didn't think about the public, uh, changing ribs thing, but outside of that, I mean, hopefully it's a, it's a lot, but even if it's, if I have a hundred more sexual partners, then that's still, you know, a thousand dollars a person I have to tell like, well, you know, it was a thing.
[00:56:24] Mike: Yeah.
[00:56:39] Keith: Yeah, that's why I said a hundred thousand. I just don't think it would come up enough times for it to matter Yeah, I mean at some point it's gonna affect my ability to get laid and that is yeah having my ability to get laid affected is worth a lot to me so
[00:56:41] Mike: Yeah. How much would it you need if instead of YMMV, I wanted to tattoo her zone? That would be like a million, right?
[00:57:05] Mike: It's like, it's funny. It just says a tattoo that says like one millionth cum shot or something. What?
[00:57:14] Keith: Alright, we have time for one more. ah This person says, my boyfriend sucked my boobs with a little too much enthusiasm and something came out. I was at my boyfriend's house yesterday and he was sucking on my boobs and it felt a bit sore once he sucked them harder. He usually sucks them enough that they get pinkish and my nipp my nipples are a deep brown.
[00:57:32] Keith: Anyway, I felt something come out of one of my boobs and he gulped it down before I could say anything.
[00:57:36] Mike: Oh, my God.
[00:57:37] Keith: My boobs have been sore for a few days before this, but it's been so much worse today.
[00:57:41] Mike: Oh, fucking nasty. Come on, man.
[00:57:43] Ally: Something, what do you mean something?
[00:57:43] Keith: but side of like ah The side effects of one of my medications makes my boobs grow, but I don't know what came out.
[00:57:45] Mike: It's like pus or something. This is disgusting. Come on.
[00:57:52] Keith: Please help.
[00:57:53] Mike: Oh, Lord. I mean, so she and she'd had an infection on that nipple.
[00:57:59] Keith: I don't think she did. It's just this guy sucks with so much enthusiasm that they get discolored.
[00:58:05] Mike: All right. So Allie, has anything ever come out of your nipples?
[00:58:07] Ally: No, no.
[00:58:08] Keith: Allie's covering her mouth. Yeah.
[00:58:09] Ally: Yeah, know I mean like the only way this would possibly be okay is if she was like, you know, recently had a baby.
[00:58:16] Keith: Yeah. So it has been discussed at length here and, uh, they have decided that if he consistently sucks on them, it can stimulate a small amount of milk.
[00:58:20] Mike: Okay.
[00:58:28] Keith: If you're worried, you should get an examination, but I wouldn't panic.
[00:58:28] Mike: Yes.
[00:58:30] Keith: Look up how to examine your breast for lumps, blah, blah, blah. It's called Lacturia, by the way. Look it up. It's quite interesting. And then ah she edits later. I mean, the first edit is please read my other edits and stop asking to see my boobs.
[00:58:44] Keith: um And then, yeah, she's not pregnant. And the pharmacy said that it's normal that she was lactating as a result of the medication she's on. um
[00:58:54] Ally: Oh.
[00:58:55] Keith: But I did know that you can stimulate lactation. In fact, I think you can't i think some men can have lactation stimulated.
[00:59:03] Mike: Right.
[00:59:04] Ally: Hmm.
[00:59:04] Keith: so
[00:59:06] Mike: You've never tried to stimulate lactation alley.
[00:59:08] Ally: No, you guys should try that though, if men can do it.
[00:59:10] Mike: It'd be easier for a woman. I think, I think it might be worth trying. I mean, uh, like if you were, uh, they're probably, they're men that fetishize it. There's actually a guy on Pornhub. Unfortunately he's very unattractive, but he likes, there's just, he has video after video after video of him drinking his wife's or whatever female partners milk.
[00:59:28] Mike: You're not into that.
[00:59:29] Ally: No, and so you can do it without having ever been pregnant.
[00:59:32] Keith: Apparently.
[00:59:32] Mike: Correct.
[00:59:33] Ally: It's not related to.
[00:59:33] Keith: Yes, even men can.
[00:59:36] Ally: Yeah, okay.
[00:59:37] Mike: I mean, you could probably just get a, um, like a, one of those pumps, like you, yeah, pumping and you just pump every root first.
[00:59:39] Keith: A pump.
[00:59:42] Mike: It's like, it's like guys that restore their foreskin more or less by like stretching their cock. They have these devices you attach to your cock and then it like slowly produces new, new skin by stretching.
[00:59:54] Keith: That reminds me, I want to talk about this, but I'll save it for next episode. I have a have a development in that area.
[01:00:00] Mike: Well, can you give us a tease? What kind of development?
[01:00:02] Keith: That was a tease.
[01:00:04] Mike: All right, fine. Are you, are you, are you getting your foreskin fixed?
[01:00:07] Keith: Um, I don't, I look, well, you're going to have to tune into the next episode because that'll do it for this episode of your mileage may vary. You can send us feedback or questions to YMMVpod at gmail.com. That's YMMVpod at gmail.com. We pay $10 for any feedback. So just let us know how you want to be paid.
[01:00:23] Keith: And if you ask us a question, let us know if you can use it on the air. We forgot to go through that interesting email we got. We'll we'll do that next episode as well. All right.
[01:00:32] Mike: Person who loves us.
[01:00:32] Keith: Thanks for listening. Yeah. And we'll catch you next week on Your Mileage Mayberry.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 193: Soaking Explained, Ghosting Dynamics, Polyamory Challenges, Sexual Routines, Parenting Perspectives

Episode Transcript