Your Mileage May Vary: Performance Anxiety, Group Sex Dynamics, Therapy or Breakup, Attraction Over Time, Masturbation Effects

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00:01] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I am Keith. I have Ali and Mike with me. Hello guys.
[00:00:11] Mike: Hello.
[00:00:13] Keith: ah We just spent the last hour antagonizing Ali. So hopefully we can have a polite show here. I did not bring any patter today.
[00:00:23] Keith: Did either of you guys?
[00:00:25] Mike: Can we have some feedback from somebody that I first wanted to bring up? Ali, did you have something to talk about?
[00:00:30] Ally: No.
[00:00:32] Mike: No. Uh, okay. So, uh, I had a dream the other night and I thought you guys could analyze it. Um, I dreamt that I went to a psychotherapist and I had to step out of his office for a little while. He had like one of those standard kind of chairs where you could lean back and I guess my chair was the same and I came back in and he was auto filleting.
[00:00:54] Keith: Wow.
[00:00:55] Mike: And ah what how ah before you analyze it, like how would you react if you came back in the room and your therapist was was was sucking his own cock? Do you wanna know how he was sucking his own cock?
[00:01:05] Keith: I think I know the way you do it.
[00:01:05] Ally: Yeah, was he just bending over in the chair or like?
[00:01:08] Mike: Normally, he was.
[00:01:10] Keith: No.
[00:01:11] Mike: No, he was doing that.
[00:01:11] Keith: Oh.
[00:01:12] Mike: It was a dream, so it didn't have to be perfectly realistic.
[00:01:14] Keith: Yeah, I don't think that works in real life.
[00:01:17] Mike: Yeah, it was strange.
[00:01:17] Ally: Yeah.
[00:01:18] Mike: I mean, you wouldn't expect someone to be doing that when they thought someone might come into the room. He's trying to do it. Yeah. I mean, usually guys put their legs, yeah usually people put their guys, put their legs over their head, give, get the gravity assist on their pelvis, uh, something like that or on a bed or whatever couch.
[00:01:23] Keith: Yeah, I just tried it. i'm I mean, I'm not close.
[00:01:25] Ally: yeah
[00:01:26] Keith: I'm not close to being able to do it even when I'm doing it the right way, but yeah, just hunched over in a chair. I definitely can't.
[00:01:36] Keith: Right. Yeah. They let put their back on the floor.
[00:01:41] Mike: They have various positions. How would you react if this was how you'd be surprised run out of the room?
[00:01:48] Ally: I probably start laughing and then like try to take a picture to be able to prove, because people would not believe that this was happening.
[00:01:48] Keith: I don't know.
[00:01:51] Mike: That's interesting. Okay.
[00:01:54] Keith: Oh, a picture's a great idea.
[00:01:56] Mike: You wouldn't find it like sexually threatening, Ali?
[00:02:00] Mike: Like he's got his erect penis out.
[00:02:00] Ally: I would not find it threatening.
[00:02:03] Mike: Okay. Is there any situation that wouldn't where you were that's not explicitly sexual that you would find threatening if a guy has erect penis out? I mean, I would i generally find erect penis is threatening. That's why I'm asking.
[00:02:15] Ally: Um, I don't know if you were like coming, like, I guess if you were like running towards me, like maybe that would seem threatening.
[00:02:25] Mike: Well, let's say, I mean, I've always thought that like if you were in a swimming pool or the ocean or something and everybody was naked, it would actually be not that hard for a guy to get his penis into a woman's body. So then there's like some utility to having a bathing.
[00:02:36] Ally: Oh, you'd have to get close enough to me that he's, I mean, like,
[00:02:37] Mike: Oh, you think it would be hard.
[00:02:42] Mike: Okay.
[00:02:43] Ally: I would realize that he was approaching me.
[00:02:44] Keith: The context of the autofilating, I think, makes it a little bit less threatening.
[00:02:49] Mike: um
[00:02:50] Keith: right like He's already entertaining himself.
[00:02:53] Ally: and
[00:02:54] Mike: Yeah, ah my reaction in the dream was I was angry. And I started like, yelling at him about like, I'm not to actually don't remember that well, why but I was I remember feeling very justified in my anger and I was very angry with him for doing this.
[00:03:06] Keith: Yeah. I mean, you're there to get therapy and here he is just auto filleting all over that as if he doesn't care.
[00:03:11] Ally: absolutely
[00:03:15] Mike: So what do you think? All right, what do you think the analysis of this dream might be?
[00:03:19] Keith: Oh boy. I don't know. Did you ask an LLM?
[00:03:24] Mike: I didn't. I mean, it seems like, well, the LLM's gonna block me because it doesn't want to talk about auto-flation. I haven't checked the new one out of China that's made headlines.
[00:03:31] Keith: Deep seek.
[00:03:33] Mike: Risk risking risking our economic and stock market bubble making Kai Rizdall's day potentially worse but ah the and so The point is the Chinese one might be willing to do this maybe grok the the Twitter one would do it But the one I use GPT does not typically want to do stuff like that But I I was just thinking like it probably suggests like people not taking my problem seriously or something like I bring up something that bothers me and and and people are just fucking auto filleting away and
[00:03:33] Ally: oh
[00:03:55] Ally: Mm.
[00:03:58] Keith: I think that's it, yes.
[00:03:58] Ally: Yeah.
[00:04:02] Keith: Right. Paying no mind to your existential problems, but rather, masturbating themselves with their mouths.
[00:04:07] Mike: Right.
[00:04:08] Ally: Yeah.
[00:04:13] Mike: Right.
[00:04:14] Ally: Yeah, I think it shows like, I guess what you think of therapy, but it's mister Vittori and like, only rewarding for the therapist.
[00:04:21] Mike: Maybe. I don't think I normally think that, although I do think ah it's always, you wonder yourself, like this person, if you do therapy for like an hour, for you it's just one hour out of your week or month or whatever it is, but for this person that's what they're doing all the time. And I think that's kind of interesting. Like their life must be quite different than other people's, right? Just listening to this bullshit all day long. You're just like, they can just categorize your bullshit on some sort of,
[00:04:48] Mike: It might be harder to categorize my bullshit. Actually, it isn't because I think I'm generally dishonest with therapists. If I was honest, I don't think they would be willing to be my therapist.
[00:05:00] Keith: Huh.
[00:05:01] Mike: Maybe, I'm not sure.
[00:05:02] Keith: That seems probable, actually.
[00:05:04] Mike: I would say a bunch of politically incorrect shit and like it would be like like, what are you upset about now?
[00:05:07] Keith: Right.
[00:05:08] Mike: And I'm like, well, you're not going to like it.
[00:05:12] Keith: ah Right.
[00:05:13] Mike: It's going to be a problem.
[00:05:14] Keith: Right.
[00:05:16] Ally: Keith, you you had an idea of like how auto fellatio should be done and it wasn't bending over in the chair.
[00:05:16] Keith: Yeah, I don't think they'd hit.
[00:05:20] Keith: Yeah.
[00:05:22] Ally: like How do you think the the therapist should have been doing it?
[00:05:25] Keith: Yeah, the the canonical way is on your back.
[00:05:25] Mike: Yeah.
[00:05:29] Keith: And yeah, as Mike said, when you're on your back, you get the, I'm i'm doing a thing with my hands that the listeners can't see, but when you're on your back, you you' you get the gravity from your legs.
[00:05:29] Mike: Yeah.
[00:05:39] Keith: So it can help you get closer than you can when you're hunched over in a chair. Well, we've covered this before, but there was a time in Mike's life when he could autoflate.
[00:05:52] Mike: Yes, I could do it and i could when I was, go ahead.
[00:05:53] Ally: What time? Yeah, what time was that? Like, how old were you?
[00:05:58] Mike: Probably 17, 16. I could do it in either way. I could do it sitting on a chair on the edge of the chair. It's never comfortable and also I couldn't auto-filate. I could like kind of make my tongue touch the head of my cock. I couldn't like put the whole thing in my mouth or something.
[00:06:13] Keith: I remember when I was in college, we used to talk about whether dunking a basketball could be a layup where like your finger sort of nicks the rim. you know You're like technically touching the rim and scoring a basket. So that you know that's that's what a dunk is, right? So yeah, I i think touching your your dick with your tongue is technically auto filleting by the same properties.
[00:06:35] Mike: I mean, the, the real problem with that is that, you know, right.
[00:06:35] Ally: yeah
[00:06:38] Mike: I mean, this guy did not ejaculate while doing it, but he was very vigorous. It's very vigorous in his chair. He also had a lot of fa facial hair, which was a problem for me. And like that, I think maybe that was part of the rage I had.
[00:06:48] Keith: I wonder if if I could autofilate if I would want to shave before getting down to business. I think I would.
[00:06:59] Mike: Well, would you ejaculate in your mouth?
[00:07:03] Keith: ah Hard to say. um um My inclination is no.
[00:07:04] Mike: Oh,
[00:07:06] Keith: ah But if it made the orgasm materially better, I might.
[00:07:07] Ally: of
[00:07:12] Keith: It depends.
[00:07:13] Mike: It's a fairly common trope ah in porn, certain types of porn, to see a guy who sets his body up this way is not autoflating but beats off and then comes in his own mouth. So you could do that.
[00:07:23] Keith: Yeah. i'm not I'm definitely not interested in the coming in my mouth.
[00:07:27] Mike: Okay.
[00:07:28] Keith: The question is, would I bear the coming in my mouth to enjoy a better orgasm?
[00:07:29] Mike: Okay.
[00:07:36] Mike: Yeah. I don't think it would make it any better.
[00:07:37] Ally: Do you think you would enjoy autofilading? Like would it feel more like receiving or more like giving?
[00:07:45] Keith: It's, that's another tricky thing because, you know, the main problem with autoflayshow is yeah, you're in like a yoga pose and you can't really get the angle or exactly what you want.
[00:07:51] Mike: Right.
[00:07:56] Keith: But let's say you had a portal gun, Mike, I'm sure you are, but Ali, are you familiar with the video game portal?
[00:08:02] Ally: Yeah.
[00:08:04] Keith: All right, so for the listeners who aren't, you could ah put sort of like a hole in a wall and then you could put the output of that hole anywhere you wanted.
[00:08:15] Keith: So you know you could put the holes right on top of each other. And if you stuck your hand in, the top of the hole your hand would come out of the bottom hole. So in in this way, you might be able to like autofilate more, um i don' what not accurately, more more comfortably.
[00:08:33] Mike: Sure.
[00:08:33] Keith: And ah yeah, so if we're just talking about like sort of the the mental aspects of a comfortable autofilatio situation, ah Geez. Yeah, i don't I don't know. I don't have a whole lot of intuition about how that would go. Maybe it would be amazing. I mean, I enjoy giving myself a hand job probably, or at least I think I can... and I don't know. like i I think women give me worse hand jobs than the ones I can give myself, but getting it from a woman makes it better than the ones I give myself. So I'm not sure if that would translate over to blow jobs.
[00:09:07] Mike: You know, this this ah effort that I undertook when I was that age, maybe I was 16, I don't know, was made ah compelling almost completely because of the lack of access to a female mouth to use.
[00:09:18] Mike: Right. So as soon as I made that transition, I was like, oh, I can I can do this. I can have somebody else do this. Then it became totally uninteresting. Right. Because so it was almost completely like, oh, I wonder what that feels like.
[00:09:30] Mike: Right. And then some sort of effort, massive effort.
[00:09:34] Ally: Were you
[00:09:35] Mike: Yeah.
[00:09:35] Ally: Were you ashamed to be doing it more so than regular masturbation? like Did you tell any of your friends that you could do it?
[00:09:44] Mike: When I was in that age, like nobody talked about masturbating among among men. and actually was I think we've discussed this on the podcast before.
[00:09:50] Keith: Yeah.
[00:09:51] Mike: It was unusual, like even with a female partner, to like masturbate yourself. like It was like kind of shameful. I don't know how that operates with 16-year-olds nowadays. I'm guessing it's somewhat different, but maybe maybe not totally different.
[00:10:03] Mike: and so I certainly would not have told anybody. Ashamed? No, no. um Not ashamed of that. I'm not ashamed of my thing. Like I know a lot of times men are ashamed of their masturbatory activities. I'm not. I think it's great. Yeah, it's great. It's it really, I mean, here's the thing. This is true for all, this is true for all men. Masturbation is our primary sexual activity.
[00:10:23] Ally: Yeah, I'm just saying like auto play shows like a little bit gay, right?
[00:10:23] Keith: Yeah, but Mike.
[00:10:24] Mike: It just is. For women, that's not true.
[00:10:26] Ally: like it
[00:10:27] Mike: It's gay? No, man. i'm Like anything I do in the pursuit of masturbation is fine by me, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else or, you know, those sort of standard things. but like Yeah, if I wanted to like rub. like One time I um tried rubbing aspirin on my cock while masturbating, because I thought I was curious what that would do.
[00:10:42] Mike: And ah I don't know, man.
[00:10:42] Keith: What did it do? And why did you, why were you curious? Do you, have you tried other powders salt or, you know, powdered sugar, or, you know, how far did you go with this?
[00:10:49] Mike: No.
[00:10:49] Ally: Oh yeah, was it you crushed up an aspirin pill and rubbed the powder?
[00:10:53] Mike: I did. So ah what that does is it makes it so that, ah yeah, I don't know. I was just trying to like put a drug on my penis.
[00:11:01] Ally: Why didn't you get like the liquid version that they sell for like two things?
[00:11:01] Mike: and what
[00:11:04] Keith: Ooh, like inside the gel caps.
[00:11:05] Mike: I was a kid. I was a kid.
[00:11:07] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:07] Mike: We, didn' like, we got, I don't know what kind of a wealthy house household you grew up in, but we, all we had was the stuff from the dollar store. Uh, so it was just the, it was the standard aspirin pills.
[00:11:16] Ally: Okay, so you couldn't afford the gel cap, right?
[00:11:16] Mike: And anyway, the reason I, the reason I bring it up is because something interesting happens. Do you want to know and what happens?
[00:11:24] Keith: Yes.
[00:11:25] Mike: It irritates your skin so much that like you're the skin of your penis sheds like across the next like three days.
[00:11:30] Keith: Oh, my word.
[00:11:31] Mike: Yeah. Did you know that? See, so that, so I'm proud of knowing that I found that out. I bet I'm the old, like, I bet you can't even find this online, this information. And it might only be true for me, but I'm not allergic to it or anything.
[00:11:43] Mike: So anyway, masturbation is men's. So this masturbation is not women's primary sexual activity, but it is for men, right? Women's primary sexual sexual activity is partnered.
[00:11:52] Ally: Yeah, no, I understand that. Yeah, I was just wondering if like, you know, the idea of like, oh, I sucked a cock yesterday, like, even if it's your own, does it still kind of feel like sucking a cock?
[00:11:55] Mike: Right.
[00:12:03] Mike: I couldn't suck it. I could only touch my tongue against it.
[00:12:05] Ally: Yeah.
[00:12:06] Mike: And no, it's not because I mean, like, look, men, what would you say, Keith, like under one percent of the time wash their hands after peeing, maybe under point one percent of the time.
[00:12:06] Keith: Yeah.
[00:12:15] Keith: ah Yeah.
[00:12:17] Mike: And so ah men are in constant contact with their penises, let's be honest. And also men ah constantly like fiddle around with their balls and their penis. So like there's the the the movement of um organic material between mouth and penis for men is just made more or less constant. So it was there was nothing unusual or different about that. But I did not ejaculate in my own mouth. I don't think I could have come in that position because it's too uncomfortable. Yeah. So.
[00:12:45] Keith: I wonder, I mean, look, I expect that there are contortionists in the world who can meaningfully answer this question. Like, what is it like? Do they prefer it over master, overhand masturbating?
[00:12:57] Keith: And if such a person would like to write into the show, we'll, we'll take their question.
[00:13:01] Mike: Yeah, I don't think they prefer it.
[00:13:02] Keith: But for now, Mike, you have any other pattern or should we move into some of our topics?
[00:13:07] Mike: Well, we have somebody that wrote in to tell us last week, I think we talked about nipples and discharge.
[00:13:07] Keith: for the
[00:13:11] Mike: There was a question about um somebody having something come out while they were having their nipples stimulated and it was formulated in a rather gross way.
[00:13:17] Keith: yes
[00:13:19] Mike: And this person wanted to point out that that's um normal, apparently, during intense nipple sucking. It's a physiological response. There can be a small amount of fluid. Even if they're not lactating or experiencing hormonal changes, et cetera, then they have a bunch of like but some bullshit about like health. I don't care about that. but then um uh, nipple, nipple orgasms, orgasm felt O R G A S U M.
[00:13:41] Keith: Yes. Hmm.
[00:13:44] Mike: So this must be for someone from the South, um, or possible. Uh, yeah, but, so, so yeah yeah, and I wanted, actually, I wanted to bring this up really quickly because I appreciate the person writing in with this information.
[00:13:57] Mike: And, um, this person is also suggesting that you can get like nipple stimulators. I'm not going to do that, but, uh, Ali, you have a very, very sensitive nipples. Can you experience nipple orgasms?
[00:14:09] Ally: No.
[00:14:11] Mike: Is that like something you've tried to do ever or like, it well, it'd be you stimulate
[00:14:14] Ally: Oh, no, just like I never have. I don't know what that would mean, I guess, like that you have a regular. do they Well, so it's like it's a vaginal orgasm that comes from the nipple stimulation only.
[00:14:31] Mike: ah
[00:14:31] Ally: Like, no, I haven't. I don't I doubt that would be possible.
[00:14:33] Mike: nipples can nipple stimulation can trigger the same. I mean, I've seen videos of this now.
[00:14:37] Ally: Hmm.
[00:14:38] Mike: I might you always have to wonder is the woman actually orgasming so you see like the sort of characteristic throbbing of her vagina area, her vulva, but ah they could she could be like tensing her legs or something to like get some stimulation there.
[00:14:54] Mike: It's not totally clear that it's only nipples to me. So for you, it's just that's just foreign. You're like, how could that ever happen?
[00:14:59] Ally: Yeah, it seems difficult.
[00:15:01] Mike: Okay.
[00:15:02] Ally: I think the only thing I objected to with the question that we talked about last time was the way that she phrased it as some thing came out, not like some liquid or some fluid, but some thing which made it sound harder and more substantial.
[00:15:12] Keith: Yeah, i yeah i didn't like that I didn't like that pronoun usage either, but um she meant milk.
[00:15:19] Mike: I just assumed it was a Jolly Rancher.
[00:15:21] Keith: now if Oh, Mike, no.
[00:15:22] Mike: Yeah.
[00:15:25] Keith: We're not going down that road.
[00:15:27] Mike: Yeah.
[00:15:29] Keith: I have never experienced this. I have had ah two partners who were always asking me to suck harder on their nipples.
[00:15:42] Keith: And I didn't get far enough in my relationships with them, I suppose, to figure out whether if I did so reliably, if they would start lactating.
[00:15:54] Keith: But and now I'm a little bit curious.
[00:15:55] Ally: Hmm.
[00:15:57] Mike: Hmm.
[00:15:58] Keith: i don't I think I would be kind, I don't know what my reaction would be. I don't know if I would be grossed out or been used or turned on. I just don't know.
[00:16:09] Mike: Yeah.
[00:16:09] Ally: Have you experienced breast milk like since yourself being, you know, like a toddler?
[00:16:14] Keith: No, no, I know.
[00:16:15] Ally: Yeah, me neither.
[00:16:16] Mike: I have.
[00:16:16] Ally: So
[00:16:17] Keith: I know it's a specialty. I think in Japan, there are certain recipes that require breast milk, but I have never indulged.
[00:16:24] Mike: I didn't like it.
[00:16:25] Keith: No.
[00:16:25] Mike: It tasted too metallic.
[00:16:27] Ally: Hmm.
[00:16:28] Mike: I don't like milk generally though, so.
[00:16:30] Keith: Yeah. I love milk.
[00:16:31] Ally: Metallic, like the way that blood tastes metallic.
[00:16:34] Mike: Yes, yes.
[00:16:35] Ally: Oh, interesting.
[00:16:37] Keith: Huh. That makes sense, I guess. I don't know.
[00:16:43] Keith: um All right, let's move on. ah So this person says, um I think I'm smelling my friend with benefits, but while doing doggy. A friend and I started regularly having sex after a weekly bar hop with friends.
[00:16:52] Ally: problem
[00:16:57] Keith: We do doggy and I've been getting whiffs of her butt, which is not something that I've ever noticed with other partners. I'm wondering if this is a normal thing. It's usually pretty late at night, so I'm guessing it could just be because it's a long day. Now, the first thing I want to clarify here is I think whiffs of butt means poop, right?
[00:17:12] Keith: That's got to be it, right?
[00:17:12] Mike: Yes.
[00:17:14] Ally: Yeah, or yeah, like she's passing gas while they're fucking like.
[00:17:14] Keith: Okay. Yeah. ah
[00:17:19] Keith: Oh, that's true. that Okay, but okay that that that's that's an alternate a theory here. But it's not like you know the lotion that she uses on her ass cheeks or something.
[00:17:29] Keith: like when When this person says whiffs of butt, yeah.
[00:17:30] Ally: No, no, no.
[00:17:32] Keith: Okay, all right. Now, I have experienced this, and it's pretty unpleasant. um I don't experience it often, and I assume that Well, there's a few things here that um women have advantages over men. So the first thing is most women don't have much hair around their asshole. So even if it has been a long day, as this guy um speculates, ah it's possible for them to clean up in that area.
[00:18:04] Keith: um
[00:18:07] Keith: without as much of a problem as ah as a man with a hairy asshole might have. ah Now, I think maybe he talks about how, did he say that they were drunk?
[00:18:19] Keith: Yeah, they were bar hopping.
[00:18:20] Mike: Wait, can we, can we, can we talk about that for one more sec? Like, I don't know anything in this area. Does that alter, uh, the functioning of a bidet? In other words, does the hair there, like, but does a woman get much more value out of a bidet than a man does? That's something I just don't know. Like, is either of you had enough experience with a bidet to know?
[00:18:40] Keith: I think a man gets more value out of the bidet because he can use the water to like rinse off his hairs in a way that they can't really with paper.
[00:18:51] Mike: But don't you need like, don't you in order to get hair clean, don't you kind of need soap?
[00:18:58] Keith: Yeah, so I've been thinking about this since I added this topic for us. But yeah, so when a man has, you know, ass hair, and especially when they have asshole hair, whenever they poop, it passes through that that hair mesh, right?
[00:19:16] Mike: Right.
[00:19:16] Keith: And depending on how, you know, where on the, what what is it, the Mohs poop scale? No, that's the hardness scale. there's There's a scale of like how solid your poops are.
[00:19:25] Mike: Right.
[00:19:26] Keith: Depending.
[00:19:26] Ally: Oh, yeah.
[00:19:26] Keith: depend
[00:19:27] Ally: and I don't know what it is.
[00:19:28] Keith: weve we've We've talked about it before. I can't remember what it is.
[00:19:29] Ally: I forget. Yeah.
[00:19:30] Keith: Yeah. It's 1 through 7. But depending on how soft your stool is, it leaves a different amount of residue on your hair. And I think of a bidet can help with that.
[00:19:39] Ally: and Yeah.
[00:19:41] Keith: And yeah, like if you wanted it to be perfect, you would need soap to you know break down the poop particles or something. But a bidet is a lot better than paper in this sense.
[00:19:52] Mike: Okay, so you think a guy, that's interesting. i would The reason, okay, just to defend my point of view, I thought, I was thinking a woman would get more value out of a bidet just because... because it seemed like you could almost get it completely clean without the hair there.
[00:20:05] Mike: But with the hair, it's like, oh, now you need to do something a little complicated. It's sort of like washing your hair kind of deal. You need like some shampoo, some conditioner, you know, like a comb, like, yeah, that was and also, I guess, if you have enough hair, like the bidet water, I don't know.
[00:20:11] Keith: i see
[00:20:16] Keith: yeah
[00:20:19] Mike: I don't know how strong the stream of water is, but it seems like it would need to be pretty forceful for a guy, whereas as a woman, it's always going to kind of hit the mark.
[00:20:29] Keith: Well, what does a woman do with a bidet? So let let's say youre you you sit on the bidet, you get some water in the area.
[00:20:34] Ally: Ha
[00:20:37] Keith: Do they then use their finger to sort of diddle their asshole to scrape off any residue?
[00:20:37] Ally: ha.
[00:20:41] Keith: We're like, what?
[00:20:43] Mike: I don't know.
[00:20:43] Ally: i've so i've used yeah i mean I've used toilets with bidets and I also wipe with paper after the bidet because it's like it's wet.
[00:20:43] Keith: i don't I am not a bidet expert.
[00:20:54] Ally: I don't know. It just seems like an added thing to do. So you know i will I will use like the bidet first and then wipe. um
[00:21:01] Mike: but When you wipe, it's sort of clean, right?
[00:21:01] Keith: Doesn't that leave paper residue?
[00:21:04] Ally: Well, my partners are not as exacting as you are vis-a-vis the one scrap rule of toilet paper.
[00:21:05] Mike: Oh, that's a question.
[00:21:09] Keith: I i hate paper residue.
[00:21:11] Ally: Yeah. No, I mean, it hasn't left toilet paper residue that I've noticed.
[00:21:12] Keith: yeah
[00:21:15] Ally: This was like, you know, in Japan, it's like a standard feature of the toilet, right?
[00:21:16] Keith: he
[00:21:19] Ally: So I was in the airport in Japan and used it.
[00:21:20] Keith: Yes.
[00:21:21] Ally: like It's cold, which I don't like. You know, the water is not warm, which I would prefer, but it does seem cleaner. i The toilets I have at home are not the type where you can easily add a bidet attachment to it.
[00:21:33] Ally: Otherwise, I would. It seems nice.
[00:21:35] Keith: I, I'm pro bidet as well, but yeah, I don't have the real estate in my apartment's restroom.
[00:21:42] Keith: Mike does though, in his house.
[00:21:43] Mike: how could
[00:21:44] Keith: Why don't you add bidets, Mike?
[00:21:45] Mike: doesn't I know, agreed. i think there's a Just so you know, Keith, I think there's a seat attachment you can install. It doesn't require a separate device, so I think you do have the real estate.
[00:21:51] Keith: Hmm.
[00:21:53] Mike: I think anybody would have the real estate to do this.
[00:21:56] Keith: Okay. Well, when you come over to help me with my TV, uh, maybe you can install a bidet for me as well.
[00:21:56] Mike: okay so
[00:22:01] Mike: Well, I mean, maybe you can't trust that I know how to mount TVs. No.
[00:22:05] Keith: Eh, you're going to be better than me. I can trust in that.
[00:22:07] Mike: No.
[00:22:09] Ally: Have you considered shaving your asshole if the hair is that bothersome?
[00:22:10] Mike: ah
[00:22:15] Keith: Have you read the famous Craigslist post on this topic?
[00:22:19] Mike: no
[00:22:19] Ally: No.
[00:22:20] Keith: Oh man.
[00:22:22] Mike: It's risky.
[00:22:22] Keith: Uh,
[00:22:22] Mike: It's very dangerous. The, the itching and the pain, like sort of the irritation that follows doing something like that is ah a grave, grave risk.
[00:22:30] Ally: o
[00:22:34] Ally: Okay.
[00:22:35] Keith: I mean, it's it it is this was posted in 2004, July 1st.
[00:22:36] Mike: do Do you? Uh-huh.
[00:22:40] Ally: who
[00:22:40] Keith: I'm not going to read it, but we'll link to it in the show notes. And I'm going to paste it here for you, Ali. But um yeah, this man shaves his asshole, and the the returning of the hair does not go well.
[00:22:54] Mike: Ali's asking I assume because she does this, so she's like it's not that big of a deal, right?
[00:22:59] Ally: Yeah, so I occasionally do shave in there. um And i don't I'm reading this Craigslist post. like I don't have this problem, I guess.
[00:23:10] Ally: but
[00:23:12] Mike: Is there some trick? Do you use like aftershave deodorant, like something to sort of like calm the follicles? Um, avoid irritation.
[00:23:21] Ally: probably because from shaving my like vulva area, maybe I've desensitized and of the skin down there to being shaved.
[00:23:27] Mike: Hmm.
[00:23:29] Ally: I do use like shaving cream.
[00:23:30] Mike: That's interesting.
[00:23:32] Ally: Maybe that helps.
[00:23:35] Mike: Okay. And you shave in that area because for cleanliness generally, or because you expect to have anal sex or both.
[00:23:42] Keith: No, I think it's self-consciousness and doggy style.
[00:23:43] Ally: No, just cleanliness
[00:23:45] Mike: Okay. Lettered it. Which is it, Nelly?
[00:23:50] Ally: and it just seems like part of the general like genital shaving process. you know I'm down there already. like
[00:23:58] Mike: Right. Well, there is going to be someone potentially looking at your anus, like ah appreciating it.
[00:24:00] Keith: When
[00:24:03] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:05] Mike: So you want to provide them the best look you can.
[00:24:08] Keith: When you are expecting to have doggy-style sex, and let's say you have been out and about in a so-called long day as ah this author writes about, do you think about maybe going to clean up a little bit before initiating sex or before sex is initiated on you?
[00:24:19] Ally: yeah
[00:24:34] Ally: No, I mean, maybe.
[00:24:38] Keith: you think you're general clint You think your general routine is enough to not have to be mindful of this?
[00:24:44] Ally: Yeah, I suspect that this person is indicating that their partner's general hygiene you know is not up to snuff if he smells poop when she bends over.
[00:24:45] Keith: Okay.
[00:24:54] Ally: you know And I suppose if I had been having explosive diarrhea all day, maybe I would not opt for doggy-style sex, but maybe I wouldn't opt for any sex at all.
[00:25:04] Keith: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. i'm I'm talking about like the nominal situation here, not some sort of unique gastrointestinal issue.
[00:25:08] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:11] Keith: I am very curious about this because um last year I was dating a lovely young lady and ah we were having sex and I'm like, I may have told you about this, but yeah.
[00:25:27] Keith: So she came to my place and ah I picked up like a little bit of a whiff of something just during missionary and then Because of that I was I was a bit loathe to you know turn her over but ah She did it herself and then she kind of stuck her ass in the air.
[00:25:48] Mike: Mmm.
[00:25:50] Keith: And yeah, like lo and behold um there wasn't anything visual but it smelled bad and um through just determination and and power of will, I was able to finish. But um that was the last time I ever had sex with her. And i I never told her why. But what do you think the compassionate thing to do there is? Like, should I have told her? ah I feel like that would be mortifying for her. It wasn't a relationship that seemed like it was long for the world anyway. So
[00:26:25] Keith: It really would have been just ah just a community service thing.
[00:26:25] Mike: I don't right I think it's less than 50 50.
[00:26:28] Keith: like Should I tell her so that things are better for her going forward? um
[00:26:34] Mike: She would believe you if you told her because it just seems it sounds like the kind of thing thing somebody would say to to hurt someone's feelings.
[00:26:41] Keith: Yeah, it does.
[00:26:41] Mike: Right. So it's I don't and there's no way for like it's you'd be telling her like three days later and so the evidence is gone.
[00:26:42] Keith: You're right.
[00:26:47] Mike: There's no way to like prove to her that there was like a smell issue.
[00:26:48] Keith: The evidence. ah
[00:26:51] Mike: There are um you know, there are error purifiers.
[00:26:53] Keith: i Actually, wait, hold on. Can I stop you?
[00:26:55] Mike: Yeah, good.
[00:26:56] Keith: I don't think that's true. I think, yeah, I think she may not have ever considered that this is something she needs to think about.
[00:26:58] Ally: Hmm.
[00:26:59] Mike: You think it's a systemic problem.
[00:27:01] Ally: Hmm.
[00:27:06] Mike: Hmm.
[00:27:07] Keith: And um consequently,
[00:27:07] Mike: Okay.
[00:27:11] Keith: once I revealed it to her, she'd be like, oh no, I didn't know that's, and I don't know how her reaction would be, but I think it is possible You're probably right. She would probably think, you know, it's like telling a guy that is like dick is small after you break up with him.
[00:27:24] Keith: It's like, okay. Like it's not fair.
[00:27:27] Mike: That's more objective, but sure, but that it smells, you know.
[00:27:30] Keith: I don't know. This felt pretty objective. That smell was not good.
[00:27:33] Mike: Okay.
[00:27:34] Ally: So you think it's just that she didn't wipe well enough or something?
[00:27:35] Mike: Yeah.
[00:27:39] Keith: Yeah, that's my guess.
[00:27:41] Mike: This reminds me of the, I was asking, I think Keith, I asked you about this, the the experience if you're at, because I experienced this recently, you're at a bar and a woman has bad breath.
[00:27:41] Ally: Yeah.
[00:27:51] Keith: And yeah.
[00:27:52] Mike: And it's just an, it's just an, it's an impossible situation. Like what do you do? Like you don't want to talk to them, ah but how do you, you can't communicate it.
[00:27:57] Keith: Yeah.
[00:28:02] Mike: And so it's just like, how do I get rid of this person?
[00:28:03] Keith: Yeah.
[00:28:04] Mike: Like it's, it becomes a very complicated situation.
[00:28:05] Keith: You have to get rid of them. Yeah, because you're in a bar, so everybody's like close talking and but you know, with raised voice, you know and you know, really saying the syllables, right?
[00:28:12] Mike: Right.
[00:28:14] Keith: Like, you know, like you' you're really picking up that breath and yeah, if somebody doesn't have that
[00:28:22] Keith: as part of their ah you know hygiene routine, then it can be very offensive.
[00:28:26] Mike: Right.
[00:28:30] Mike: Yeah. and it's well and it's also and it's and it's Right.
[00:28:30] Keith: And I don't know what you say or do.
[00:28:32] Mike: It's impossible to communicate it basically because the I was stuck in this situation for like 30 minutes and I was thinking about like what what ah what can I communicate here and there just isn't anything.
[00:28:39] Keith: Well, you
[00:28:43] Mike: and i don't i is like well I was thinking maybe this is one of the reasons people are like, hey, let's have a shot.
[00:28:44] Keith: just fake an emergency and leave.
[00:28:49] Mike: I actually thought that. I was like, oh, I didn't want to have a shot because I get hangovers easily.
[00:28:50] Keith: No. Peppermint schnapps maybe.
[00:28:54] Mike: Well, I think anything would probably do, right?
[00:28:54] Ally: Uh huh.
[00:28:56] Mike: Because it's gonna be powerful, it's gonna be concentrated enough to just nuke out that. but But I was thinking like maybe that's why people offer shots. It's just because of the bad breath.
[00:29:04] Keith: Oh.
[00:29:06] Mike: It's like, oh, I'm attracted to you, but I wanna eliminate your breath.
[00:29:10] Keith: Do you get offered shots often? Do do you think?
[00:29:13] Mike: I've only been offered a shot once in the last like 20 years. And it was it was not, it was a, yeah, must be that.
[00:29:15] Keith: Oh, okay. All right. Well, you might have good breath then.
[00:29:23] Ally: Yeah, I think that's why people carry like Altoids or gum or something. So you could have just been like, hey, have an Altoid.
[00:29:30] Mike: But then they would have known why, right?
[00:29:30] Keith: Yeah.
[00:29:31] Mike: It would have, they would have immediately been embarrassed, which is fine.
[00:29:34] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:34] Mike: I whatever.
[00:29:36] Keith: I think you can deliver.
[00:29:37] Mike: Yeah.
[00:29:37] Ally: Actually, that could be a good nagging technique.
[00:29:41] Mike: Go on Ali. How's that a good nagging technique? Neg someone's breath.
[00:29:45] Ally: Just, yeah, just offer everyone an Altoid, unprompted, and then, yeah, they will then be more self-conscious. Embarrassed.
[00:29:51] Mike: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
[00:29:53] Keith: I have a couple of times ah like when leaving a restaurant after a date,
[00:29:53] Mike: Is that? Yeah.
[00:29:59] Keith: um
[00:30:02] Keith: Uh, someone has like quite obviously started chewing a piece of gum. And to me, that's like a bit of a sign, right?
[00:30:13] Keith: Like that they're expecting something maybe.
[00:30:16] Mike: Hmm.
[00:30:17] Keith: Uh, but I don't know how to, is it, can you guys think of some like verbal rhetorical thing I could say to like make light of that or like establish if they're chewing the gum because they think I'm going to kiss them or they would like to be kissed?
[00:30:33] Mike: Hmm.
[00:30:34] Keith: Hmm.
[00:30:35] Mike: Not obvious. I mean, you could I'm trying to think of whether you asking for gum as well would do that.
[00:30:41] Keith: Yeah.
[00:30:44] Mike: Uh, does something.
[00:30:44] Keith: Yeah, I don't know.
[00:30:47] Mike: Yeah, I'm not sure.
[00:30:47] Keith: I feel like there's something there. There's that there's some fertile ground for something clever, but I i can't come up with anything.
[00:30:53] Mike: Yeah. Like, Hey.
[00:30:54] Ally: I guess you could be like, hey, by the way, you know, I'm allergic to wintergreen, right? or something
[00:30:59] Mike: Oh, you could say, tell them to come check out your, your bidet, like i had a great bidet.
[00:30:59] Keith: And if they spit it out immediately, then I know.
[00:31:02] Ally: Yeah.
[00:31:07] Keith: Wait, did I tell you guys about the girl that I went on a date with who was ah gluten sensitive?
[00:31:07] Mike: Darling.
[00:31:16] Keith: she She claimed she was celiac and ah we go to this restaurant that she chose. It was a pasta restaurant, but they had gluten-free options. and when i was ordering that you know I had met her you know seven minutes prior. When I was ordering, she says, um you might want to consider getting a gluten-free option.
[00:31:41] Mike: Huh.
[00:31:41] Keith: And I wasn't really thinking ahead, but I was like, oh, why? And she's like, well, but she kind of like blushed a little bit. And she said, like, ah if we should kiss later, I can't kiss you if you've had any gluten in your mouth.
[00:31:57] Keith: And so I was like, oh, OK, I guess I'll get the gluten free pasta.
[00:31:57] Ally: Hmm.
[00:32:01] Keith: But is that a thing? or are Can people be that sensitive to gluten?
[00:32:05] Mike: I don't know the answer to that. My, my prior would be no, but I don't want to like, I don't actually know.
[00:32:13] Keith: Yeah.
[00:32:13] Mike: It seems, I mean, just because there's, you know, it's because it's not like a, it's not like an allergen, like an environmental allergen like that.
[00:32:13] Ally: Yeah, I don't know. I would guess no also. Yeah.
[00:32:21] Mike: Right. It's something you have to consume enough that it messes with your intestines. Like it just doesn't seem right.
[00:32:25] Keith: Yeah. I think having like four gluten molecules is probably not going to.
[00:32:29] Ally: Yeah. Maybe if it were a peanut allergy and you know you'd eaten something with peanut sauce, like possibly that could trigger something.
[00:32:32] Mike: Yeah.
[00:32:32] Keith: Yeah. Okay. Well.
[00:32:39] Mike: And the thing is she was forced to say, if I kiss you later or whatever that like, that's, you're trying to avoid saying that, right.
[00:32:43] Keith: Yeah.
[00:32:46] Keith: I mean, in her case, maybe she wanted to reveal that she was hoping we would kiss later. I mean, that's how most women are with me, of course.
[00:32:52] Ally: Yeah.
[00:32:54] Keith: Yeah. Who knows? I don't know.
[00:32:57] Mike: No, it sounds, it makes sense.
[00:32:59] Keith: Yeah. um Okay. I wanted to read this topic because it sort of like turns on its head, ah something we've covered a bunch of times. ah This person says, my wife wants me to see a sex therapist and I don't want to have sex with her.
[00:33:12] Keith: I'm a 42-year-old female, so this is a lesbian couple, and in perimenopause, sometimes my thoughts on my body are not on the same page and my body just does not want to be touched.
[00:33:15] Mike: Hm.
[00:33:21] Keith: It's not fun and it's frustrating for me. My wife has been in denial for a long time about what I'm going through, and even after she realized and accepted the stage I am in, she tells me that I need to see a sex therapist. I've been dealing with this from her for a year now, and I'm just now starting to get mad.
[00:33:35] Keith: I've been depressed and extremely tired because I'm literally going through midlife and she is adding this on top of it. I like sex. I enjoy it. If we have sex one night, I'm ready the next day and she is not. She wants to have sex one time every four or five days and that routine just shuts me down. I don't know what to do. I'm pretty pissed off at this point and I don't even want to have sex with her. I feel like maybe she's just critique criticizing me and judging me because I'm not performing the way she wants me to. I don't know, but I don't like the way I feel. Um,
[00:34:05] Keith: The first comment sort of says it all here. That sounds like a pretty good reason to go to sex therapy, right?
[00:34:10] Ally: yeah
[00:34:11] Keith: Like she doesn't know what she wants. She's frustrated by it. Her partner wants to have sex once every five days, which doesn't sound outrageous in your early forties. Um, I'm not sure what to say, but yeah, like she's, she seems to have like vilified her partner here and I'm not sure her partner is doing anything wrong.
[00:34:32] Keith: It sounds like it's been a year of this.
[00:34:36] Ally: Yeah, I agree. she should I think she would benefit from sex therapy and exploring why she doesn't like why she doesn't want to have other forms of sex with her partner that don't implicate her as much, I guess.
[00:34:42] Mike: What do you think of sex therapists? Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. Exploring.
[00:34:58] Mike: but she I mean, yeah, i my I'm skeptical of the benefit of sex therapy in a situation like this because it's like, it's not Oh, you know, I want to do something.
[00:35:09] Mike: It's it's just like I don't want to have sex. It's like it's like I'm not sure like how I mean, that's that's kind of cut and dried. I mean, you wonder things like does this person masturbate? What else is going on in this person's life?
[00:35:23] Mike: um I don't know.
[00:35:24] Keith: Do you know what the woke sex positive opinion is on women who go through menopause and don't want to have sex as much any anymore? There must be some yarn about how they can rediscover their sexuality.
[00:35:39] Mike: You're asking or are you going to tell? I don't know.
[00:35:41] Keith: I don't know, but I presume, because I think it's probably fairly typical for post men, causal women to be less interested in sex.
[00:35:41] Mike: I'm not.
[00:35:45] Mike: I don't think that's outrageous.
[00:35:51] Keith: I mean, is that an outrageous thing to say?
[00:35:56] Keith: Okay. And so, ah yeah, I don't know what the solution here is, but I don't think it's irrational for her partner to be frustrated by the state of affairs.
[00:36:09] Mike: Yeah, I mean, I don't yeah go ahead.
[00:36:09] Ally: Yeah, I mean my like My mental model of sex therapy is that it's basically like regular therapy, but you know that you're mostly going to be talking about sex. And so part of it would be having you know a conversation between the two of them about you know who has to kind of compromise and how.
[00:36:23] Mike: Ali, have you ever had a period of time in your life when you were not interested in sex other than before you were like 18?
[00:36:37] Ally: um Maybe like a couple of weeks.
[00:36:38] Mike: Like this is
[00:36:40] Ally: i If something's really stressful, you know, like finals week during college or something, like, yeah, maybe I'm not thinking about sex during that time because I'm like very preoccupied.
[00:36:51] Mike: Right.
[00:36:51] Keith: For me, it's the opposite. like During stressful times, I'm like more mindful of how distracted I am by thinking about sex.
[00:36:57] Ally: Hmm.
[00:36:58] Keith: It's annoying.
[00:36:58] Ally: Hmm.
[00:37:00] Mike: So wait, so you view it as a positive, then I don't understand, like.
[00:37:03] Keith: No, I view it as a negative. I probably masturbate more because I'm just like, look, I want this passive thinking about sex to sort of go away. So as soon as I notice it at all, I'll just masturbate and hope to tamp that down.
[00:37:11] Mike: Oh, interesting.
[00:37:17] Mike: In a world of unlimited porn that must lead to a lot of masturbation when you're stressed.
[00:37:23] Keith: Yes, it does. It's probably on net a bigger waste of time, even though short you know for the refractory period after I get brief re you know reprieve from the from the stress of trying to be sex-seeking.
[00:37:33] Ally: Hmm.
[00:37:35] Mike: 20 minutes at a time.
[00:37:37] Keith: Yeah, exactly.
[00:37:37] Mike: Yeah, I mean, it's it's yeah, like, yeah, I mean, it's the thing is that, yeah, I mean, they can figure it out, but it's like, it's probably not, it's not sex. It's not something about sex that's that's going on here, right? It's like, it's the other things that are going on with this person that's nuking her interest, I would guess. It could also be that she's not interested in this particular partner. That's like, that's that's the kind of thing like knowing if she masturbates would tell you, or no any like other behaviors would give you information about that.
[00:38:08] Mike: Yeah. I mean, wait, Ali, you've probably had, you've had your interest in a particular partner decline.
[00:38:15] Ally: Yeah.
[00:38:15] Mike: I assume you're like, so you have had, so from the perspective of a guy that's dated you, is it true that like from, from th there have been people who have you dated where they're from their perspective, your sex drive declined, even though it didn't really, because you're saying, and so what would you do?
[00:38:27] Ally: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:30] Mike: Would you, would you start masturbating more? Would you cheat on them? Like, how would you handle that?
[00:38:36] Mike: Both.
[00:38:36] Ally: No, I guess if if my interest in them decreases, I just don't experience being turned on as frequently. um
[00:38:47] Ally: Yeah, I don't know.
[00:38:47] Mike: But you have sex with them anyway?
[00:38:47] Ally: i If I'm, yeah, so often the process of starting sex will make me interested in having sex, like I'll get turned on through the process of ah being touched in that way, it just doesn't occur to me spontaneously.
[00:39:05] Ally: um And I find that you know when things are very busy or when I'm worried about something or like preoccupied, like I just don't get aroused.
[00:39:07] Mike: Interesting.
[00:39:15] Ally: So I don't masturbate as much and i it doesn't occur to me to do so. And kind of if I do think about it, it's it's kind of frustrating because it's like, oh, but I know that I'm not going to be able to concentrate on that because I have this other thing preoccupying me.
[00:39:30] Mike: Okay, so that's the situation where you generally have some sort of stress level that's making this not work, but like when you become less attracted to an individual partner, what do you do?
[00:39:41] Ally: just wait for them to initiate. I you know i just like stop.
[00:39:44] Mike: okay but you won't you won't you won't Okay, you stop initiating, but is there a point where you'll start rejecting their initiations?
[00:39:45] Ally: anditi
[00:39:50] Mike: Which is sort of what's going on in this question, right?
[00:39:51] Ally: Right. No, I haven't had that happen.
[00:39:54] Mike: Interesting. So even if you're starting to like fall out of affection for somebody, lose respect for them, whatever it is, like that you still will accept their initiations up to some point until you break up. You don't like you don't create a sexual dysfunction in the relationship. I ask that in a kind way. like It's really common. like I think Keith does that sometimes. He basically induces a sexual dysfunction in a relationship. There's a thing that happens. right So it's not like, but you you you sort of like power through it and then you have a more, you you have the breakup, oh, she's gone.
[00:40:19] Keith: man
[00:40:23] Keith: Oh, oh I'll pause it.
[00:40:33] Mike: So, ah but but but so you don't induce a sexual dysfunction in the relationship like some people do. And when I say some people, I say that like in a kind way, like Keith has done that in relationships.
[00:00:09] Ally: You who just said interesting, and then it froze for me.
[00:40:43] Mike: I've done that like where you basically part of what happens as you are moving toward breaking up is you like become less interested in them sexually.
[00:00:17] Ally: I don't remember what were I had been saying something about how I haven't gotten to the point of rejecting somebody's advances and you were like, interesting, and then you were gonna say something.
[00:40:51] Mike: And so then you reject advances or as a guy, you wouldn't ah try to have sex with a person like, you know, that that hasn't happened. Like you basically like the the relationship side of it, you kind of keep separate and you ah would have the sober breakup conversation, but you'd still be having sex in kind of normally up until then.
[00:01:06] Ally: Hmm.
[00:41:42] Mike: so what Okay.
[00:41:42] Keith: It's probably pretty hurtful to be rejected by your partner.
[00:41:47] Mike: what's the what's the um What's your internal experience in like like then if you're in a situation where you're not happy with where the relationship goes, but you don't want to be rude and they, yeah are you still turned on by the sex or is it kind of like, I don't want to be doing this.
[00:01:17] Ally: I think frequency of sex would decline, but I haven't experienced having my advances rejected nor have I experienced rejecting somebody else's advances.
[00:42:02] Keith: Performative.
[00:42:03] Mike: Yeah.
[00:01:30] Ally: I think it's just that the advances themselves happen.
[00:42:03] Mike: like we're and Or does it vary? It probably varies. but
[00:42:07] Keith: I have a follow-up question, but let's hear that one first.
[00:01:34] Ally: less frequently because maybe it occurs to my partner less to do it, it occurs to me less to do it. But I think going the extra step of actually shutting someone down would seem to me rude, I guess, or like too, too forceful of an action.
[00:42:13] Mike: Even, even though you're like, you're rotated with the partner or whatever, you're like not having it sort of relationship wise.
[00:42:25] Mike: It's still like, oh, okay. I'm just two people having sex now.
[00:01:54] Ally: and
[00:42:31] Mike: Okay.
[00:42:35] Mike: Okay.
[00:42:38] Mike: Okay.
[00:42:40] Keith: Do you imagine it getting better over time?
[00:42:40] Mike: Keith.
[00:42:44] Keith: Like once you've started going down that slippery slope of, you know, not only not being as attracted to them, but being sort of aware of that or maybe even irritated.
[00:02:15] Ally: I will still be turned on by it. like Yeah, once once it starts, I'm still turned on by it. I think the only issue is just that I i don't spontaneously become like aroused or like I don't think about sex as much to initiate it.
[00:42:56] Keith: Like, do you expect it to get better or like, what, what's sort of like the medium term plan once that's happened?
[00:02:39] Ally: Yeah, I've never been that irritated with a partner that it extends to not wanting them to touch me.
[00:43:30] Keith: Yeah, but...
[00:43:45] Keith: Yeah, I mean, I...
[00:43:45] Mike: It's interesting though, but like, ah yeah, go ahead.
[00:03:13] Ally: I wouldn't say I expect it to get better, but i I understand that there's this period at the beginning of a relationship, maybe like the first six months where everything is new and you're really into them and you know hormones are high or whatever, and you're going to be as attracted to them basically as you'll ever be.
[00:43:47] Keith: I expect you can feel differences between just total resentment and never wanting to like have anything to do with their naked body. And then yeah, like a curbing of the initial fierce attraction.
[00:44:00] Keith: Like there's, there's there's a spectrum there. Yeah.
[00:44:03] Mike: I'm reading between the lines.
[00:03:31] Ally: And then I think that
[00:44:05] Mike: It also sounds to me like this this is probably wrong, but I'm picking up that maybe guys have done this to you or like they stop initiating sex with you.
[00:03:33] Ally: declines, maybe after six months, whatever, maybe around a year, you reach some kind of steady state. And I guess, you know, the hope is that like, the steady state is not like, Oh, I never want to have sex with this person.
[00:03:44] Ally: Maybe it is like, Oh, I want to have sex with this person once a week or twice a week or something. And and I think that's relatively fine.
[00:44:24] Mike: But also if you're having relationship difficulties toward the end of a relationship, maybe the guy stops initiating, okay.
[00:03:53] Ally: yeah
[00:44:32] Mike: That's, yeah, that like, yeah, they're just different patterns of relationships. um I think a common thing that a guy can be accused of is continuing to initiate sex.
[00:44:43] Mike: With some frequency even though the relationships like on the rocks and then the woman goes like nuts It gets really upset about that because it's like well you're but I guess look it could go either way The woman could keep doing that and the guys like what are you doing?
[00:44:47] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:54] Mike: Like we're not doing well and you're you know, so so I think there's some amount to which people connect sex with ah How the relationship is set the health of the relationship generally and I think normally people would think women do that more But I think it varies right there's some spectrum there
[00:04:24] Ally: Yeah, and again, not like 100% stop, but they'll stop initiating as frequently as in the first period of the relationship or yeah, it'll decline in frequency.
[00:04:37] Ally: Yeah.
[00:45:11] Mike: Uh, so like normally people think, Oh, well a guy will just have sex anytime he can.
[00:04:39] Ally: Yeah.
[00:45:16] Mike: But I think that that's not always true.
[00:45:20] Mike: Yeah.
[00:45:22] Keith: um I think we have to talk about this for some.
[00:45:26] Mike: Yes.
[00:45:27] Keith: This is a long ah thing and I haven't read it.
[00:45:30] Mike: Yeah.
[00:04:58] Ally: um
[00:45:32] Keith: Mike, do you have it up? Maybe you can read it and skim it since you know what's relevant and what's not.
[00:45:38] Mike: Uh, uh, did you post a link here?
[00:45:40] Keith: I put it in the chat, yeah.
[00:45:40] Mike: I think you did. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, basically this is, uh, this is a, you know, yeah there's the standard threesome disaster that we encounter with, uh, M M F threesomes.
[00:45:50] Mike: Although honestly, it could happen either way where, you know, naturally one person's left out.
[00:05:20] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
[00:45:55] Mike: Then there's the, this is a foursome. And, um, I, I think, did I,
[00:45:59] Keith: What's the arrangement?
[00:05:27] Ally: yeah yeah
[00:46:02] Mike: I haven't read it yet, but let me read it.
[00:46:03] Keith: Okay.
[00:46:05] Mike: but I wanted to mention that i ice there's a there's a subreddit that has porn of foursomes. and it's I forget the name of the subreddit, but the premise of it is that the two men are high-fiving or not holding hands, but kind of near each other, both getting sex or blows blows from women or something like that.
[00:46:21] Keith: Oh.
[00:46:24] Mike: and i The male camaraderie I just can't identify with. like it's really really and It feels like it shouldn't gross me out, but it really does. i don't like you If I could have sex with somebody, and then there are two scenarios.
[00:46:40] Mike: One, I'm just having sex with them. One, I'm having sex with them, but I have to hold another man's hand while I'm doing it. like The second scenario is much worse.
[00:46:45] Keith: Yeah, agreed.
[00:46:46] Mike: right Even if he's not he just he's just there, I'm holding his hand. Um, and if it was another woman, that's probably okay. Although even that's a little weird, but another man, it's just like, I don't want to do that. Okay. Let me quickly read through this. Oh, these, these are four people. Uh, there's a couple that's 32 and 30, uh, they're both 32 and they lost their Virginia to each other. They've been looking, exploring their sexualities last six months. They've been on apps looking for a third for a threesome, never found the right fit. That's not surprising. Like it's hard to.
[00:47:16] Mike: Find a woman. Okay. So they go to a party this past weekend. They met a lovely couple who were young and clearly into them. The female half was bi and really pretty. They spent a few hours chatting and drinking. um And what eventually happened was her husband was not able to get an erection. So the post is by a woman. The pressure of the whole situation was too much for him. So he spent a lot of time going down on her while the female of the other couple was kissing her chest chest and nipples.
[00:47:41] Mike: She was having a great time and super super turned on. The male half of the couple asked if he could also suck on her nipples too and the husband said that was her husband said that was okay with him. It was definitely okay with her. That was obviously their first sexual experience other than them having sex together and she was really enjoying herself. Her husband on the other hand couldn't get it up so the playtime ended for them while the other couple did their own thing.
[00:47:59] Mike: She was not upset about his performance, made huge efforts to help him shake off his embarrassment. In fact, she was just happy, excited to have that little experience with the girl. But after they left, they exchanged contact information with the other couple and went home.
[00:48:10] Mike: Her husband did not want to talk about the event, the whole ride home, so she gave him his space. She's now been riding a lustful high for two days, can't stop thinking about how much fun she had this weekend.
[00:07:45] Ally: Mm
[00:48:19] Mike: Her husband opened up that he' is how he's feeling about the night. He says he feels regret over what they did.
[00:07:49] Ally: -hm.
[00:48:23] Mike: and He never wants to meet the couple again. So now he's packed his bag and is staying in his friend's place for a few days because, yeah, there's like some some ma mismatch of sexual libido, so forth.
[00:48:26] Keith: Hmm Whoa Well,
[00:48:35] Mike: So so one of the things I want to point out.
[00:48:36] Keith: why did he move out that seems a little dramatic Had had he ever not gotten it up before I
[00:48:40] Mike: Yeah, because it's because he's got so much regret and he doesn't want to, you know, he's it's it's it blew up their relationship in his mind. It's it's it' it's imploded. um The.
[00:48:52] Mike: Well, we don't have that information here, but I
[00:48:52] Keith: I mean, I haven't, so I don't know what that would feel like, but you know, it sounds like he was pretty devastated.
[00:48:55] Mike: Right. Yeah, I think ah Jackhammer rock hard for me also as well.
[00:49:01] Keith: Right.
[00:49:01] Mike: um Yeah, for sure.
[00:49:02] Keith: 100%. I am right now, actually.
[00:49:04] Mike: i'm Yeah, I'm actually erect right now, too. um But the ah so it is i've i've I was listening. I think I mentioned on the show that I listened to a podcast about swingers the other day a couple of weeks ago.
[00:49:16] Mike: And apparently it is really common in these swingers clubs that the guy has a much harder time kind of enjoying it and getting into it.
[00:08:48] Ally: yeah
[00:49:23] Mike: In other words, The woman is able to sort of ignore what's going on in her surroundings, but the guy keeps like noticing that there are these other people around when he's trying to do his thing, and that that's like a really common thing that guys have to work through.
[00:49:32] Keith: what
[00:49:34] Mike: And you know it's true on porn porn sets as well, right?
[00:49:34] Keith: Of course.
[00:49:36] Mike: It's hard to keep an erection and come on demand on a porn set. like It's actually a very unique skill that most men do not possess.
[00:49:43] Keith: Yeah, I think that wetness, you know it correlates to arousal um for some women more than others. But if a woman is struggling to get wet, they can just get some lube out. But if a man, there's so many things that a man has to do, but yeah getting and maintaining an erection is A1A.
[00:50:02] Keith: And if he can't do that, then the whole you know the whole party is off.
[00:50:03] Mike: Yeah.
[00:50:07] Keith: And so there's a lot of pressure on the man. And there's a flywheel effect, which is the more you think about it, the more nervous you get about it, the harder it is to get it.
[00:50:18] Keith: And so ah it's not surprising when you hear about these you know sort of potentially very exciting, but you know new and unusual and a bit dramatic setups that that men struggle.
[00:50:33] Keith: Now, I don't know if you need to like move out because of it, but yeah.
[00:50:33] Mike: I actually think, yeah. Well, yeah, he's really ashamed. I actually think that I would kind of like this situation as a guy. I mean, so one question that media comes comes to mind is if somebody if you have the opportunity to have sex with two very beautiful women in an MFF threesome, but you aren't going to be able to have have an erection, would you want to do that? I think a lot of guys would say no. I think I would say yes.
[00:50:56] Mike: just because I actually like the idea of like not having it. So then it's just, it's just like a pure, like I'm not sexually aroused.
[00:51:01] Keith: It's like low pressure.
[00:51:02] Mike: Like I don't, yeah, it's totally low pressure. Now I can just like ah see what happens in the situation. It's, it's like a, it's like a video game or something. It doesn't, yeah. Whereas the pressure to perform, I actually could view as a negative, but the thing is the guy was expecting to be able to perform.
[00:51:16] Mike: Anyway, Keith, if you could do an MFF threesome, but you would not be able to have an erection, would you do that? Or would you say this isn't worth it?
[00:51:22] Keith: You know, I think my intuition would be that I wouldn't want to do it. But when when you said the opposite just a moment ago, I sort of went down a little
[00:51:25] Mike: Okay.
[00:51:29] Keith: ah you know, game theory thing. So women don't seem to be that disappointed when men come quickly. And so it's not like the man being present with like a hard cock is all that fundamentally important to the experience for the women. So once you internalize that fact, not being able to get hard at all probably won't bother them that much either. Like they'll you know be like, oh, okay, well, I guess that's not happening. And then they'll move on to other activities.
[00:51:58] Keith: And yeah, so in that sense, there's really no need to be that embarrassed or ashamed. And so, yeah, I mean, how many chances am I gonna have in my life to be in a two-woman situation?
[00:52:10] Keith: So yeah, I think I would i would go for it as well.
[00:52:11] Mike: And the women, right, the women might enjoy it and I wouldn't feel threatened in the way I, or just sort of weird in the way I would if I had another guy there whose hand I have to hold the other guy. See, this is the thing is this guy, it wasn't the other guy that bothered him, which is interesting.
[00:52:20] Keith: Yeah.
[00:52:24] Mike: It wasn't that it was his own performance. And it seemed like that his wife really enjoyed the other woman, the mostly, which I think is common in MFF.
[00:52:31] Keith: Yeah.
[00:52:33] Mike: I assume Ali, you have no interest in MFF threesome because you are generally, um, skeezed out by other women's bodies.
[00:52:46] Mike: but you would do an MMF.
[00:52:51] Mike: Really? You don't want more, but let's say that, it but wait, wait, wait. I think you're wrong about this because I think that if it could be arranged so that it was, you could be very submissive in the situation and you would like it. Like two guys kind of like, you know, dominating you. Like it feels very dominant that, or you want, you want that individual connection. Is that the problem?
[00:12:48] Ally: Yeah, and I don't really have any interest in a foursome either. In this scenario, i wouldn't I probably wouldn't do an MMF either.
[00:12:59] Ally: It's a lot to keep track of. It's a lot of moving parts.
[00:53:36] Mike: But here I mean, what do you, what is the thing you're supposed to pay attention on?
[00:13:04] Ally: Yeah, I don't know.
[00:53:39] Mike: And when a guy is giving it to you in missionary or doggy, say doggy style, that's the least interactive. What are you concentrating on there?
[00:53:50] Keith: We lost her again.
[00:53:52] Mike: Let's get her, let's get through this.
[00:53:54] Keith: All right.
[00:53:55] Mike: So in ah if you're receiving in doggy style, what is there really for you to do?
[00:13:23] Ally: I guess, yeah, to some extent I do, but I also find it difficult to concentrate on both parts of 69.
[00:53:59] Mike: That's the question. Like you're saying you can't you know it's too complicated. Well, if you're receiving doggy style, there's not really that much for you to do, right?
[00:13:29] Ally: You know, like I don't enjoy that because it's like, well, if I'm giving a blowjob, I want that to be the one thing I'm concentrating on versus, you know, if I'm being performed on, I want to concentrate on that.
[00:13:39] Ally: And yeah, I think if there were two guys, I would also find that sort of tough to figure out where to direct my attention.
[00:54:20] Mike: Oh, you're running through other scenarios in your head to make yourself more aroused while receiving the doggy style. Other like episodes of YMV you've listened to or. So no, I know you're being, you're being sarcastic. It's, is it, okay. Is it the partner you're with you're thinking about or something else?
[00:54:44] Mike: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something weird, something, something that earns you, turns you on at the moment. That makes sense. Okay. So having another guy there would just be a more activity and that makes sense.
[00:54:55] Mike: That makes sense. Okay.
[00:00:12] Ally: Yeah, i I find that I need to do a lot of mental activity to get myself to the point where I could orgasm from sex anyway.
[00:54:57] Mike: Yeah. That's, ah that's interesting because I think that like, uh, the, I'm not sure the men want to be in their heads like that.
[00:00:22] Ally: So I guess I'm doing that.
[00:55:06] Mike: So it's like the the threesome, it's like, it's like the more act, the more stuff going on I view as a positive, not a negative, right?
[00:00:23] Ally: I'm i'm thinking about other, you know, arousing things.
[00:55:12] Mike: It's like, Oh, there's another person. So it's like, there's,
[00:00:30] Ally: Yeah.
[00:55:16] Mike: Yeah, men men don't want to concentrate that much during sex, I think.
[00:00:33] Ally: Yeah.
[00:55:20] Mike: Or I don't.
[00:00:38] Ally: Definitely, yes.
[00:55:21] Keith: The thing that's compelling about multiple women is, yeah, I think being able to switch from one to the other, like that seems like it would be kind of fun.
[00:00:38] Ally: I have entire transcripts memorized.
[00:00:48] Ally: No, I'm thinking about whatever I would be thinking about while masturbating, you know canonically, the Amish scenario.
[00:55:32] Keith: But I think that setup is sort of unrealistic. Like you see this thing in porn quite often where it'll be like two women in doggy style, you know, sort of hip to hip.
[00:00:53] Ally: but like
[00:00:56] Ally: yeah
[00:55:42] Keith: or there'll be two women in doggy style maybe even on top of each other, right?
[00:00:59] Ally: yeah and
[00:01:03] Ally: and
[00:55:47] Keith: Like one is sort of crouched over the other one and the man will like switch holes. But I don't think that that is typically what's done in actual and MMF situations.
[00:55:58] Keith: I would expect the women to be. Yeah, you probably have to like round robin your attention and I don't know what the other one does Well, the one is getting the attention, but it's probably kind of awkward would be my intuition there I Have one more topic and I think we could cover it and in four or five minutes, but Ali do you have to go?
[00:56:08] Mike: Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah, it's popular though. I know it's popular. Go ahead.
[00:56:25] Keith: Okay, all right, I'll do it with Mike then you can sign off and
[00:56:30] Keith: Bye. um Okay, Mike. This person says, my boyfriend has to finish himself off when having sex with me and I'm starting to take it personally. ah They're both 18. It's been about a month since I made a post about my boyfriend and me losing our virginity to each other. And at the time I mentioned that he didn't come. Since then we've had PIV sex two more times and I've lost count of how many times I've given him head or hand jobs.
[00:56:55] Keith: but every single time he has to finish himself off.
[00:02:12] Ally: um
[00:56:57] Keith: At first, I wasn't too worried. The replies to my last post reassured me, blah, blah, blah. ah Since then, I've done my best to mend whatever, yes.
[00:02:19] Ally: Yeah.
[00:57:08] Keith: Basically, her boyfriend always has to jerk himself off to orgasm.
[00:57:12] Mike: Right.
[00:02:29] Ally: Um, yeah, probably I do.
[00:57:14] Keith: I think ah she goes on and on about how she's like struggling and taking this personally. ah She's read from comments in other posts that you know it's not about her performance, she doesn't need to worry about it.
[00:57:26] Keith: ah I don't know if that's the right take. um I think if he always has to do that, and now it it might be the case that it's not about her, it's about some dysfunction he has, but that's not a normal setup.
[00:57:33] Mike: Yeah.
[00:57:41] Keith: Normally, A man can come from his girlfriend giving him a hand job or a blow job or PIV or PIA.
[00:57:49] Mike: I think this is more kind i think this my piia i think this is more common than you think i suspect it's more common than you think because of the prevalence of porn and beating off at this point. like guys i mean it's I would just say it's like some form of death grip, which people can look up if they're curious.
[00:58:00] Keith: Huh.
[00:58:04] Mike: i mean it's just guys Yeah, I mean, the the things that you're going to do with a woman's body are not quite as tight and and fast and hard and furious as what a guy does to his own penis.
[00:58:15] Keith: Yeah.
[00:58:16] Mike: And so, yeah, I mean, the the truth of the matter is that, yeah, if it um if a woman really wanted to correct this or or or have the best chance or at least try, try, try my theory, it would be to basically do some deal with them where he she says, like, look, not free use, but like, look, I want for a month all of your orgasms to be partnered with me.
[00:58:37] Mike: And like, yeah, I bet at the end, of I bet by the end of the month, like that's a concrete objective thing.
[00:58:37] Keith: Yeah.
[00:58:41] Mike: I think you could try. Hey, it wouldn't necessarily work, but I think if the guy would agree to it and stop beating off, I think by the end he would be having orgasms from the stuff she does.
[00:58:48] Keith: Yeah, I think another thing is they're so young that... it's probable he's not good at communicating what it is that he would like her to do.
[00:58:58] Mike: Yeah.
[00:58:59] Keith: So it might be that like he prefers different positions or or she is actually doing something wrong that could be remedied, but he's afraid to say it. And so like like there could be some panacea there too, where if they would just talk to each other a little bit, this could can all get resolved.
[00:59:15] Keith: But yeah, in general, like men should be able to orgasm with their partners.
[00:59:20] Mike: Yeah, and i I would say that, you know, the guy. Yeah, it's good to be able to talk about it, but it's difficult. It's difficult both directions because everybody is so weird about these topics. Right. I mean, the he's he he's afraid.
[00:59:30] Keith: Yeah.
[00:59:33] Mike: like He's afraid. I remember being that age and he's afraid that anything he might do might close the sex door.
[00:59:42] Keith: Right.
[00:59:42] Mike: Like so he's like, yeah, he knows it at any moment. And it's the woman who holds the sex door open or closes it at that age. Right. it's She's in complete control of it.
[00:59:48] Keith: Yeah, no, it's it's funny you should mention that in earlier in this post, she accounts for like every time they've had sex and it's yeah, it's clearly a big deal to her still.
[00:59:50] Mike: Yeah.
[00:59:59] Mike: Yeah. So then, so she's going to so she's going to manage that. And he knows that if he loses access to sex from her, that it's not straightforward to get it from someone else. It may not be straightforward for the guy until he's like 30 or something, depending on his career or career outcomes and the like.
[01:00:12] Keith: Right.
[01:00:14] Keith: Right.
[01:00:15] Mike: So it's it's very tricky.
[01:00:15] Keith: Right.
[01:00:18] Keith: Yeah. Okay. All right. That'll do it for this episode of Your Mileage May Very. You can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod.gmail dot.com. That's ymmvpod.gmail dot.com.
[01:00:28] Keith: We pay $10 for any and all feedback received. So just let us know how you want us to pay you and we will do so. Thanks for listening and we will catch you next week on Your Mileage May Very.

YMMVYour Mileage May Vary

Episode 194: Performance Anxiety, Group Sex Dynamics, Therapy or Breakup, Attraction Over Time, Masturbation Effects

Episode Transcript