YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary Podcast

YMMV is a weekly podcast about SEX and RELATIONSHIPS.

Enjoy YMMV? Please click the above button to subscribe to the show!

To listen to an episode, just scroll down and press the play button.

Episode 196: Soaking and Cereal, Clapping in the Shower, AI Porn Futures, Mormon Sex Rules, Ethical Quandaries

Team YMMV | 2-14-2025 | 1:04:17

Read The Transcript

A discussion leads to an extended examination of an unusual claim: that a Mormon husband once ate cereal out of his wife’s vagina. The logistics are considered, including spoon placement, sugar residue, and potential medical consequences. This transitions into a broader conversation about Mormon attitudes toward sex, particularly the practice of “soaking” and its representation in pornography. The effectiveness of soaking as a loophole is debated, along with the likelihood that it leads to more conventional sexual activity.

Mormon missionary rules against masturbation come up next, specifically the requirement for male missionaries to clap at intervals while showering. The practical difficulties of this rule are analyzed, as is the possibility of working around it with various contraptions. The conversation expands to whether deeply ingrained religious prohibitions affect sexual preferences later in life. There is also some speculation about whether female missionaries, lacking explicit restrictions, may have unknowingly engaged in activities they were never taught were possible.

The latter half of the episode focuses on pornography, both in its current form and its likely evolution with AI-generated content. The challenges of search, categorization, and personal preference in porn consumption are examined, as well as the potential for machine learning to optimize content for individual users. A comparison is made to TikTok’s algorithmic recommendations, with questions about whether porn has too many niche preferences to be effectively automated in the same way. Ethical and legal concerns surrounding AI-generated pornography, including the possibility of synthetic depictions of illegal content, are also discussed.

The episode closes with a conversation about the broader social and psychological impact of pornography. Arguments are considered regarding whether easy access to porn affects relationships, male sexual behavior, and cultural expectations. A brief comparison is made between access to pornography and bodily autonomy debates, though the analogy is left somewhat unresolved. The discussion ends on a reflection about early internet porn consumption, the technological changes that have shaped it, and the potential implications of future developments.

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00:01] Keith: Hello, and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I'm Keith. My co-host is Mike. There is no alley today. Hi, Mike.
[00:00:11] Mike: Hello, Keith. How are you doing?
[00:00:13] Keith: I'm okay. ah I did not, I mean, we just talked for an hour before we started recording here, but I don't have any good podcast banter today, do you?
[00:00:21] Mike: Oh, I've got some stuff. Yeah. So we talked, didn't we talk last week about um Mormons?
[00:00:23] Keith: All right, what do you have?
[00:00:30] Mike: I'm not sure.
[00:00:31] Keith: I mean, Mormonism is long been one of your hobby horses, but I don't remember if we specifically spoke about it last week or not.
[00:00:31] Mike: It doesn't matter.
[00:00:35] Mike: yeah Yeah, I'm what they call a nevermo. I've never been in really any organized religion, but I find high control religions like Mormonism, Scientology is interesting.
[00:00:45] Keith: Scientology was a, you were into that for awhile.
[00:00:47] Mike: Yeah, I find that very interesting. um So yeah, so i I don't know if we talked about this, but there's a TV and there's a TV show I saw last night, so I was watching. I don't want to watch The Bachelor, but my wife was watching it, so I watched an episode of it with her.
[00:00:59] Keith: Oh boy, you say this every season, but ill okay, we could just move on.
[00:01:02] Mike: I know. The women are getting less and less attractive. And also the um the bachelor is a black guy, which is fine.
[00:01:05] Keith: Hmm.
[00:01:10] Mike: It's just, I think that it means, I think it's not it's not like all the women are black, which actually would be okay. There are many beautiful black women in the world. It's that I think his taste in women might be a little different from mine, ah maybe maybe partly culturally.
[00:01:23] Mike: And so it's like, I'm just not as excited about the seeing the women scantily clad as I usually am.
[00:01:28] Keith: Yeah.
[00:01:29] Mike: But after that, there was a TV show that's called like The Mormon Housewives of Utah or something. house people You've you never heard of the show?
[00:01:35] Keith: Okay. No, I haven't.
[00:01:38] Mike: Okay.
[00:01:38] Keith: And it's on ABC?
[00:01:40] Mike: I guess.
[00:01:41] Keith: Okay.
[00:01:41] Mike: ah it I think it was a rerun because I'm pretty sure I'd seen clips from this episode before.
[00:01:45] Keith: Okay.
[00:01:46] Mike: and Anyway, so they so you know the the premise of the show is basically scandalizing women because they talk about sex and alcohol more than they should.
[00:01:58] Mike: So, for example, one of the great scandals, I think this might've been literally the first episode they reran for this, was that a woman had admitted to her friends that her husband, and you realize these people are often pretty repressed because they haven't had sex until marriage, her husband wanted to put some fruit, okay, I'm not, I think the story is he put some fruity breakfast cereal in her vagina and ate it out, maybe with a spoon, maybe, ah not, okay, yeah, I mean, I'm assuming immediate yeast infection, like I i think that, um
[00:02:10] Keith: Yeah, right.
[00:02:20] Keith: Ooh.
[00:02:26] Keith: How would you do this with a spoon? You would sort of get past the inner labia and then kind of scrape the wall there where the where the fruity pebbles set had adhered themselves to?
[00:02:32] Mike: Okay. I made the spoon part of it. This whole thing is getting kind of gross because you're right.
[00:02:38] Keith: Yes.
[00:02:39] Mike: You would have to scrape and you would wind up with, um, like this kind of dust and sugar stuff. Kind of the whole thing doesn't sound very good for the woman.
[00:02:47] Keith: Okay, but importantly, he quote, unquote, ate sugary cereal out of her vagina.
[00:02:56] Mike: That was the implication, the strong implication.
[00:02:57] Keith: Okay, okay.
[00:02:58] Mike: And I feel like I'd heard about this before and had researched it a little bit. Um, okay. So, so this, this, then they were talking, okay. They were talking about that. They, you know, the show's pretty body for a Mormon show.
[00:03:11] Mike: I mean, meaning like they, yeah it's obvious that you're supposed to be titillated by the interplay between the religious conservatism and the sexual topics.
[00:03:19] Keith: Bodiness. Yeah.
[00:03:21] Mike: Um, they talked about soaking and I think we talked about soaking on the podcast recently.
[00:03:23] Keith: Oh, yes.
[00:03:24] Mike: Okay.
[00:03:25] Keith: That might've been less. I think it's two episodes ago, but in any case, it was recent.
[00:03:27] Mike: Okay. Okay. So the couple of things about soaking, first of all, have you ever looked on Pornhub for for soaking porn? Right. You probably haven't.
[00:03:35] Keith: I feel like it would be pretty boring. How would you tell the difference between soaking porn video and a soaking porn still image?
[00:03:40] Mike: Well, when I was looking for, yeah, I mean, so I was looking right.
[00:03:41] Keith: Cause they're not supposed to move, right?
[00:03:45] Mike: So, I mean, I, i well, I just became curious, like, is there, is there porn of this? Cause rule 34 says there should be.
[00:03:51] Keith: Mm hmm.
[00:03:51] Mike: I only found one porn. So, I mean, this is like an opportunity.
[00:03:53] Keith: Mm hmm.
[00:03:55] Mike: I only found one porn and it actually was fairly well done in the sense that it was basically the claim was it was these two like, I think they were actually cousins and in the poor.
[00:04:03] Keith: Oh boy.
[00:04:04] Mike: I mean, they're not really cousins, and but they're trying to figure out how they can have sex, but have it not be against the rules. And they like start talking. There's all this conversation, which is unusual by the way, because ah note to porn makers, it's unusual to have a woman in porn who talks like a normal person.
[00:04:20] Mike: And I actually think it's like a compelling thing to have that in porn. like I think that it's a missing niche. Maybe that's why OnlyFans is so popular. I doubt it. But women who talk more normally and more forthrightly, more candidly in porn, I think it actually you If someone made a porn studio that did that, I think they would make a lot of money.
[00:04:34] Keith: I see.
[00:04:38] Mike: um If I were going to make a porn studio, I'd probably have that be a key element. I'd try to find women that were well spoken and willing to talk. Anyway, so the woman was like participating in this conversation about like what what are we going to do?
[00:04:43] Keith: Sure.
[00:04:48] Mike: How are we going to have sex without really having sex? And then they agreed to do soaking. And so she's like, okay, like I'm just going to lie here. And then he sticks it in. And then of course the...
[00:04:59] Mike: So yeah, there's like there's like a two minute segment when He's just in there, and like it's unclear whether he's going to ejaculate from just being inserted, or he's just gonna grow soft.
[00:05:09] Keith: ah Yeah.
[00:05:11] Mike: I'm not clear on that, but anyway, he he fails to do that and starts thrusting, because he just can't contain the animal urge. And then, of course, it just switches into a full-throated porn, where he um he then like winds up jizzing on her face or something.
[00:05:24] Mike: like it doesn't It moves into like a different direction. like like once Once that Rubicon is crossed, like it's just gonna...
[00:05:27] Keith: Right. Right.
[00:05:31] Mike: um Okay, so so so the point is I saw a soaking porn. I also saw a a video about, because I searched for a video on YouTube, youtube had videos on YouTube about women kind of like reckoning with this stuff in the Mormon church and found a video, and I thought this was interesting. So first of all, apparently, so when Mormons are on their missions,
[00:05:54] Mike: you know, they're not supposed to masturbate. And the way it works is you are on a mission for two years for the men, for the boys, men, I guess it's a year and a half for the women. And you're supposed to stay within basically your shot or arm's length, kind of visual actually of of your mission partner all the time, 24 seven.
[00:06:12] Keith: Right.
[00:06:13] Mike: And this is to stop, stop you from beating off.
[00:06:13] Keith: Yeah.
[00:06:15] Mike: Like they're pretty explicit about it. It's like, this is to stop you from beating off.
[00:06:18] Keith: I mean, they do it after they graduate from high school, right?
[00:06:19] Mike: Now.
[00:06:22] Mike: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:23] Keith: I mean, that is a maximum beat off of time for most people in their lives.
[00:06:23] Mike: well um
[00:06:27] Mike: Yeah, the standard thing when I was in college actually was for people to do freshman year, then do the mission for two years, then come back. so but So when I was a senior, there were people that I'd known as a freshman who were in then sophomores. It was a very odd thing for them.
[00:06:37] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:39] Mike: Anyway, but so when you're going to the bathroom or showering, there's this problem, right? Because you could of course be beating off. Now, apparently the way they solve this as a guy is you have to clap your hands every so often so that your partner can hear you.
[00:06:47] Keith: Okay.
[00:06:50] Keith: Oh my gosh.
[00:06:54] Mike: All right.
[00:06:54] Keith: Is that real?
[00:06:54] Mike: Okay.
[00:06:55] Keith: Really?
[00:06:56] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you, so this is a solution is that they can't, I mean, I suppose you could also shower so quickly that there's just no plausible way you could have masturbated.
[00:06:57] Keith: Huh.
[00:07:03] Mike: it Um, but I like the idea of these guys in the shower clapping their hands. And of course the funny part about it is that, you know, the guy still wants to masturbate. Like you have to, but right.
[00:07:12] Keith: Well, he probably is. He just is has a little metronome reminding himself to clap while he's beating off.
[00:07:17] Mike: Right. So you have to beat off and then clap every so often and then go back
[00:07:21] Keith: it's pretty It's pretty annoying, but I think I could still do it.
[00:07:25] Mike: You don't you think you think you could clap. I think I could have at that age. I'm not sure. like I think I would start to lose my erection each time I had to clap now or it would be.
[00:07:31] Keith: How often do they have to clap to you?
[00:07:34] Mike: Well, probably they didn't say, but i would the the and the impression I got was somewhat continuously. So like you certainly couldn't go a minute without clapping.
[00:07:39] Keith: Oh, jeez.
[00:07:43] Mike: And also, like, how long could your shower really take?
[00:07:43] Keith: i
[00:07:46] Keith: I think if I had to clap every 10 seconds, it would be tricky to still reach orgasm. But if I had to clap every 30 seconds and definitely every 60 seconds, i could I could still get it done.
[00:07:57] Mike: Okay. I think, I mean, well, what I was actually thinking was that like, it wouldn't be that hard with maybe sponges or something to create a contraption that you could fuck while clapping. So then you would just be like in the shower, fucking this thing and you'd have your hands over your head clapping.
[00:08:11] Keith: Do you remember we worked at that company where they had a Fitbit competition? Everybody had to get the most steps and some of the employees were attaching their Fitbit to like fans or various oscillating devices to get the steps.
[00:08:21] Mike: Yes, yes.
[00:08:22] Keith: This this is reminding me of that. It's like some sort of device to cheat the system.
[00:08:24] Mike: Yeah, no.
[00:08:28] Mike: Right. Uh, well, and and then I was thinking, you know, maybe this could wind up a fetish where later the guy gets married to a woman and he's just, his, the thing he likes to do is fuck her in doggy style and clap at the same time.
[00:08:40] Mike: It's like, why are you clapping all the time? He's like, Oh, it just reminds me of my youth. Don't worry, honey. Okay. So go ahead.
[00:08:45] Keith: There was a, there was a, there was a discussion on Reddit this week of somebody trying to like Pavlov his wife, because his wife, when she wears a certain perfume or like a certain color panties, he, you know, he, he knows that like, you know, sex is on the table. So he was trying to say like, you know, how can I Pavlov my wife? But yeah, maybe she could clap for him.
[00:09:06] Mike: Yeah, I don't know he wanted to Pavlov or he wanted to basically do something.
[00:09:08] Keith: I guess that's the ah opposite direction, but I was just thinking of like people, their brains, like subconsciously giving them a sexual response.
[00:09:15] Mike: Yeah, I don't just for guys like I don't think that actually would work because I think I don't think. I think that you would have to do something that had much more like second and third order effects because I think the main ah impact on women is sort of hormonal.
[00:09:28] Mike: And so you would have to do something.
[00:09:28] Keith: Hmm.
[00:09:29] Mike: you you What I would do recommend doing is researching the things that raise whatever hormone the woman has during ovulation or something. I don't think it would work to create a, I don't think women's sex drive is Pavlovian.
[00:09:36] Keith: Yeah.
[00:09:40] Mike: I don't think it's psychological in the same way. i think it's ah Women, put it this way, women are more like robots than men are. um
[00:09:50] Mike: but See, Ali's not here, so.
[00:09:51] Keith: I'm ready for the emails to get pouring in, but all right, back to Mormonism.
[00:09:53] Mike: Right. Okay. so So it was two women talking about this, about this behavior the boys had to have.
[00:09:58] Keith: Okay.
[00:09:59] Mike: And then and then they turned, and this I thought this was funny as well, they turned to the like, well, what were the rules for girls during their missions? And one of the women who was pretty attractive, I should say, she said that because of like the kind of strict teachings of the church, she was taught that women can't masturbate.
[00:10:16] Mike: She thought what masturbation was a boy thing. And this sort of makes sense, right? It's like, so from her, from the worldview she was presented was that that just wasn't possible.
[00:10:20] Keith: Oh.
[00:10:25] Mike: And then she came to realize at some point, she was still pretty young in this video, but she came to realize at some point, once she'd left the church, that this thing she'd been doing was masturbating. And here's the thing, she was masturbating the whole time.
[00:10:36] Keith: I see.
[00:10:37] Mike: because she was told and taught that there was no such thing as female masturbation. And she'd just been fucking beating off day and night, apparently, during her mission.
[00:10:41] Keith: Right.
[00:10:45] Keith: Her clit was rubbed raw.
[00:10:47] Mike: Yeah.
[00:10:47] Keith: This is scamming over.
[00:10:47] Mike: And she was like, oh, that's right. So you imagine these women, these female Mormon missionaries just fucking, yeah, just jilling off all over the place. And they have no idea because they're just like, wait, we girls can't do that.
[00:10:59] Keith: Right.
[00:10:59] Mike: so it's So it's actually like this is one of the few religious situations where it totally favors the females, where they had just absolute sexual liberty.
[00:11:08] Keith: Yeah.
[00:11:08] Mike: And the boys, yeah.
[00:11:10] Keith: Did the other girls agree that it hadn't really been covered in any scriptures or classes or whatever?
[00:11:14] Mike: the other there was The other woman on this podcast I was watching ah kind of laughed. I didn't get the impression that she'd done the same thing. Look, I mean, most women don't have the same urge to masturbate that guys do, but You got to figure that this is like because it's not outlawed, this is just something they do.
[00:11:34] Mike: Another thing, by the way, they said is that this is on the TV show. They said that the sex education in the Mormon Church is so poor that they'd heard of guys trying to fuck a woman's belly button because he didn't know he thought that was the part you fucked.
[00:11:48] Keith: Huh, yeah.
[00:11:50] Mike: So they yeah.
[00:11:52] Keith: That's been a long rumored thing that some people think, but I don't, I haven't heard it specifically in relation to Mormonism, but I've heard it in relation to incompetent boys in the past, but I don't know.
[00:11:55] Mike: Is that true?
[00:12:01] Mike: Okay.
[00:12:06] Keith: I feel like I would quickly realize that the belly button's not the part.
[00:12:13] Mike: Right. Do you think you could have at ever any time in your life ejaculated just from soaking?
[00:12:19] Keith: I don't know. We could discuss this briefly the other, the other week, but I mean, basically you just get one thrust. So no, I don't think so.
[00:12:27] Mike: yeah We did discuss this, yeah.
[00:12:28] Keith: i Yeah. I think if I had like primed myself then maybe, but that's not really the spirit of the question.
[00:12:32] Mike: Right.
[00:12:36] Keith: So.
[00:12:36] Mike: you know i think i think what you see I think what you'd wind up doing is moving a little bit. You would get a little bit of thrusting in there, so it's not fair. It'd be very hard to do it fairly where you just got the one thrust.
[00:12:44] Keith: Yeah, I just think my like animal brain would like take over. Uh, like I would just start pumping away.
[00:12:48] Mike: Right.
[00:12:52] Mike: A little bit, yeah.
[00:12:52] Keith: Um, I mean, I think soaking is just a flimsy permission structure to do what they really want to do.
[00:12:53] Mike: You'd convince yourself that the slight motions you were doing were just her body pulsating or something.
[00:13:04] Keith: Like ah what percentage of soaking in attempts do you think result in some sort of more standard sexual encounter?
[00:13:12] Mike: It's really hard. It's really hard to imagine. I'm not sure.
[00:13:15] Keith: It depends how indoctrinated they are, I guess.
[00:13:15] Mike: But but by the way, uh, another thing they said on this podcast was that, um, the, uh, let's see, this, this woman gave her boyfriend a blowjob and then he, so they'd agree to do the, you know, there was a lot of hemming and hawing.
[00:13:36] Mike: He was very devout. and she agreed to do it and she did it. And she said she enjoyed it, so that that's nice. um And then right afterward, he felt very guilty.
[00:13:47] Mike: This is post nut clarity, but it's like the worst kind of post nut clarity. He felt guilty. And then they both had to go to the bishop and confess because he's like, well, I can't just confess because it takes two to tango here.
[00:13:58] Keith: Right.
[00:13:59] Mike: And so she had to confess. And the thing is that apparently when you confess, to to this person, they like to ask detailed questions like, did he come in your mouth?
[00:14:04] Keith: Jeez.
[00:14:09] Mike: Did you swallow it?
[00:14:09] Keith: Right.
[00:14:10] Mike: Did you enjoy it?
[00:14:10] Keith: Yeah.
[00:14:11] Mike: Did he enjoy it? Et cetera. And so like that was a pretty big price to pay for her to to have that experience, him as well, I guess. But she seemed pretty unhappy about having to report that.
[00:14:24] Keith: Yeah, I mean, it's probably like most other things like this where the woman is pen penalized more than the man.
[00:14:30] Mike: Right. they And they there was some mention also of like, oh, hey, you know, you could just talk to your parents about this. You can talk to your family. and She's like, look, I don't want to go into the details of giving a guy a head with my dad. And let me tell you, his dad, her dad doesn't want that either.
[00:14:41] Keith: Right.
[00:14:44] Keith: No.
[00:14:44] Mike: She's like, yeah, I lick on the underside and then he pulses a little bit. A little dribble of semen came out and I licked it off like an ice cream cone. Her dad's like, what?
[00:14:52] Keith: Right.
[00:14:53] Mike: I don't want to hear about this.
[00:14:54] Keith: yeah Yeah, I mean, it could be that the the apparatus and the and the setup around, it could be that the anticipation of such an awful conversation does have a fairly good effect of discouraging people from being sexual.
[00:15:14] Mike: That could be the point, although I suspect the point is just skeezy guys wanting to hear stories from teenage girls about giving clothes.
[00:15:19] Keith: Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
[00:15:21] Mike: Let me, ah can I ask you a question? Cause you're superior, uh, connection to the culture and so forth. Is Drake a pedophile?
[00:15:29] Keith: My understanding is that there is no um material proof of that accusation, but that he, look, I'm not reporting anything here.
[00:15:37] Mike: Okay.
[00:15:43] Keith: I think this was the the rumor years ago was that there were various incidents where like women would like tweet at him and maybe he would like tweet back at women who were you know obviously 16 or 17.
[00:15:56] Mike: and Okay.
[00:15:57] Keith: And I think that might be where that rumor kind of started is that you know he was engaging in flirtatious conversations or maybe worse with with girls who were underage.
[00:16:08] Mike: Do you think there will come a time in our culture, and I'm talking about sort of American culture, Western culture generally, when it will become acceptable to talk about the fact that adult men are attracted to seven, like when a girl turns 18, which is when it's legal before that, it's unethical, un-condoned, illegal, terrible, but the fact that like guys the guys' attraction doesn't just suddenly begin when ah on an 18th birthday, you think it'll will end have ever come a point where that like conversation can happen?
[00:16:14] Keith: Yeah.
[00:16:39] Keith: Um, I don't know, it's a little bit like ah some conversations.
[00:16:52] Keith: It's a little bit like talking about IQ testing.
[00:16:55] Mike: OK.
[00:16:55] Keith: A lot of people who are like really into IQ conversations are actually racist. And so the, ah it's sort of like a embargoed topic because
[00:17:06] Mike: Oh, is it they who are racist or God who is?
[00:17:10] Keith: Well, you know listen, listen we we don't need to get into IQ, I'm just using this that's an as an analogy.
[00:17:10] Mike: I mean, because.
[00:17:14] Mike: Sure. But but no, the reason why it matters.
[00:17:16] Keith: it's It's that the topic itself is is a indicator that people who bring it up all the time are sort of revealing a certain something or so the other person imagines.
[00:17:18] Mike: All right.
[00:17:26] Mike: So I want to push back on that for a second because I actually disagree with you.
[00:17:26] Keith: And it's sort of the same with
[00:17:30] Mike: I think that a person who's actually a racist or actually a pedophile would not bring this topic up. I actually think the fact that someone brings this up is kind of evidence or the IQ thing. It's kind of evidence that they're trying not to be racist or pedophilic because they're like, look, I'm trying to understand the parameters.
[00:17:45] Mike: Like if I was a pedophile, I would. That's the last thing I would ever want to talk about. I want to go to my skeezy like bit torrent or whatever and download my garbage and hide in some room and then have a big magnet where I can clear my hard drive or whatever when the feds show up like right.
[00:17:55] Keith: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Mike: I would I'd be very and I would never come anywhere near the top.
[00:18:01] Keith: Right.
[00:18:05] Mike: So I actually disagree with that character. say you I think you're what you I think. The only way I can understand that where I sort of agree with it is that like it implies that they are racist or pedophilic when people talk about these topics. But I don't know that it actually means that it's like there're they're more likely to have this leaning.
[00:18:21] Keith: yeah Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I sort of crossed the bridge thinking about this topic a long time ago, which is you don't choose whether you're a pedophile or not. like You don't choose what you're attracted to. right like Some people are attracted to men. um Some people are you know attracted to you know Japanese rope bondage.
[00:18:44] Keith: some people, like you don't control what your kinks are. I actually contest that a little bit, but so it goes from the from the most sex positive people that that you don't choose what what you're attracted to.
[00:18:54] Mike: Well, I actually think, you hang on, your contestation is interesting. Like what do what do you think is an example where that might not be true?
[00:18:59] Keith: I think most people start kind of This is going to get us so many emails. I think most people start kind of normal. And as you start going down various paths, some people are much more predisposed to like really be interested in going down those paths.
[00:19:16] Keith: And some people sort of snap back to the mean.
[00:19:16] Mike: Okay.
[00:19:19] Mike: So you think everybody
[00:19:19] Keith: But I think there's a little bit of, I think there's a little bit of danger in opening various boxes.
[00:19:25] Mike: Like everybody's, let's just take something that's weird, but not as illegal. Like everybody's interested.
[00:19:30] Keith: How about state massage?
[00:19:32] Mike: Okay, fine. That's a good one. Everybody's curious about that. I was going to say bestiality, but that's even better.
[00:19:37] Keith: Yeah, prostate massage is more in bounds.
[00:19:38] Mike: Uh, uh, yeah, they want to see a video of it. They're like, Oh, I want to understand the physiology. I'm curious. And I try rubbing my taint, but then, but, but the fact that it's available in the culture, if, if, if, if it was totally taboo, fewer people would wind up doing it, I guess is your point, right?
[00:19:54] Mike: Like so it didn't by by making it not totally taboo, there are in fact more guys getting pegged than there would be if it was not totally taboo. There'd still be some.
[00:20:02] Keith: That's, that's my supposition.
[00:20:03] Mike: Yeah.
[00:20:03] Keith: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Mike: So there are some pedophiles who similarly would just never, like if there was no porn, they couldn't really figure out that they were into that. Right.
[00:20:13] Keith: Yeah.
[00:20:13] Mike: And then it would never happen. But there are some where it's so obvious to them that they would do it.
[00:20:15] Keith: yeah
[00:20:17] Mike: I think that's probably right. So you're, so it's both, it's, it's ah you have a predisposition, but then society can kind of encourage it and cause more of it.
[00:20:18] Keith: yeah
[00:20:23] Mike: Okay. I buy that.
[00:20:24] Keith: yeah I suspect.
[00:20:26] Mike: Yeah.
[00:20:26] Keith: I don't know. And I'm happy to see data if people feel strongly otherwise.
[00:20:29] Mike: Sure.
[00:20:30] Keith: But Yeah, with with pedophilia in particular, yeah, like the thing I realized is I don't think people can control, for the most part, whether they're attracted to girls.
[00:20:43] Mike: Mm hmm.
[00:20:43] Keith: And so, yeah, like being a pedophile would really suck. You would have this thing that you absolutely can't and shouldn't and would be morally ah you know deplorable for indulging.
[00:20:54] Mike: Mm hmm.
[00:20:57] Keith: um But on top of that, you have this thing where like everyone just hates you. um And that part seems unfair to me, but and unless you actually indulge it, in which case it doesn't.
[00:21:07] Keith: But yeah, it's the same with a murderer. like Everybody has murderous thoughts so every once in a while, and we don't like hate them for that. It's just the people who commit murder. And I think it should be the same with pedophilia.
[00:21:15] Mike: you You're saying that, like let's say that I decided, let's say I had ah an epiphany today that I actually really love.
[00:21:23] Keith: ye
[00:21:27] Mike: I know I've not done it, but I know that I would love beating off to child porn.
[00:21:33] Keith: Okay.
[00:21:33] Mike: I've never done it, but I i know I would. You think it would be fine for me just to shout from the rooftops how much I know I would love child porn, but I've never done it. You think that would that that should be socially acceptable for me just to be like, look, likem I'm going to write about it.
[00:21:45] Keith: I don't know.
[00:21:45] Mike: I'm going to think about it.
[00:21:46] Keith: Okay. Well, hold on a second. Hold on a second.
[00:21:48] Mike: Yeah.
[00:21:48] Keith: The perspective I have is that for that person who really loves ah
[00:21:55] Keith: ah who's attracted to girls, their experience is lame. that like it's Not only is it like completely legal and should be, ah and you know shunned by society as it should be, um but they can't even admit to harboring the thoughts. like When people think about like murdering their boss or their ex-wife, they can like tell their therapist and like the therapist will be like, well, that's actually quite common, but you know you can't do it. And you know let's let's explore these various devices we have to like think about that. But if you like went to a therapist, there's probably actually, like in the Bay Area, there's probably like therapists that would actually tolerate you confessing ah you know pedophilia too. But in general, people would just not
[00:22:36] Keith: it's It's just so not tolerated.
[00:22:38] Mike: Right.
[00:22:39] Keith: And maybe that's, just right yeah I mean, maybe that's societally and culturally correct.
[00:22:39] Mike: They might have a duty to report it too. Yeah.
[00:22:45] Keith: Like maybe it does need to be like particularly uncomfortable. Like it needs to be maximally uncomfortable because we as soon as you start prying that box open a little bit, maybe it would cause some sort of explosion and that that would be worse than a few unusual people having to go through life in a sort of bummer of a way.
[00:23:04] Keith: um But
[00:23:05] Mike: Well, I don't, okay, but, but
[00:23:06] Keith: That doesn't change the the reality that their experience is is pretty lame.
[00:23:10] Mike: Okay. But there, and I know there's, there's, by the way, there's a comedian that has a pretty decent bit about this, uh, where he tries to distinguish in a comedic way between pedophilia and, and I forget the word for it, but basically being attracted to girls that are post puberty, but are under 18.
[00:23:26] Mike: And there's a word for it.
[00:23:26] Keith: Yeah, i i know i know I know what the word is. It's othebophilia.
[00:23:29] Mike: What is it? What is it?
[00:23:30] Keith: Othebophilia.
[00:23:31] Mike: Okay, and Ephebophilia, and he and that the the you can look up, that people can look up the the comedy bit, but just so you know sort of how it goes, he he makes the distinction, but then he points out that in order to make the distinction, you have to sound a lot like a pedophile, so that nobody ever makes this distinction.
[00:23:31] Keith: Othebophilia.
[00:23:47] Keith: Right. That's right.
[00:23:49] Mike: Okay, but but actually, for in the case of Drake and this feud with the A minor that it was on the Super Bowl halftime show, and
[00:23:50] Keith: Right.
[00:23:56] Keith: A minor. Right.
[00:23:58] Mike: and Kendrick Lamar and so forth.
[00:23:58] Keith: Yep.
[00:23:59] Mike: And I think, by the way, just for the record, I think Kendrick Lamar is awful. I think he's not a good rapper and I don't understand ah why he has any pop culture significance. like And I do like the some of the best, you know like ah I only like a narrow slice of rap, but it's the best ones like Eminem and Dr.
[00:24:14] Keith: Yes, but you do like rap. Yes, I can, I can confirm.
[00:24:15] Mike: Dre and stuff. Yeah. Snoop Dogg, Kanye. like But Kendrick Lamar, I just think actually there's there's just very little musicality there. But Okay, there's this there's a thing going on and I assume what he's accusing Drake of is not Pedophilia, but this ephebophilia that you described of ah let's say a 17 year old and this is the question I have is like is there a way for society to I Think I actually think there might not be but I mean is there a way for society sort of get past this and just at least come to terms with the reality that Guys feelings about ah a picture of a girl don't change the day she turns 18.
[00:24:34] Keith: Uh huh.
[00:24:47] Keith: Yeah.
[00:24:50] Mike: Like that's just not believable It's not plausible that that would happen, right?
[00:24:51] Keith: Right.
[00:24:54] Keith: Right. Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but yeah, I think it's similar to the thing I was saying a moment ago, which is, yeah, people are just not willing to concede any ground around this.
[00:25:03] Mike: and Okay.
[00:25:03] Keith: um It's sort of like the pro-gun people. you know, if you say like, Oh, do you think a bazooka should be legal? A lot of pro-gun people will be like, yeah, I think it should. It's like, they won't concede any ground. You know, it's like, okay, do you think like an automatic weapon that like, you know, has bullets that like zoom in on children?
[00:25:19] Keith: They'll be like, no, that should be legal. You know, they they like won't concede any ground. And it's sort of the same here. Like they just, people are worried that if you concede any ground on the pedophilia front, that you're, you know, it's a slippery slope to no place good.
[00:25:26] Mike: do you think there should be
[00:25:33] Mike: So I ah have learned in my life that there is a i mean this is something that didn't exist when I was 21. But nowadays, the driver's licenses for people who are under 21, at least in California, look pretty different from the ones that are people that are over for people who are over 21.
[00:25:49] Mike: And it's to enable bouncers and and people at bars to check.
[00:25:49] Keith: Okay.
[00:25:52] Mike: I think i think like the photo is sideways. There's something that's like sideways or vertical or something.
[00:25:55] Keith: Well, hold on.
[00:25:55] Mike: it's
[00:25:56] Keith: It just matters when you get the ID, right? Because the ID can't change the way it looks when a date passes.
[00:26:01] Mike: That's true, but the but the point is that it alerts the person. Then if they see that you've passed 21, you're fine. And then later you get a a driver's license that doesn't have that weird look. But until you're like, the point is before you're 21, you get a different physically looking ID, which makes a lot of sense if you're trying to enforce a law like that.
[00:26:11] Keith: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
[00:26:16] Mike: um Do you think that there should be like some duty or some like metadata that should be required to put in images and and videos so that you know when a girl turns 18 so like all of a sudden like you can start beating off to pictures like you could imagine on Facebook that like pictures have like a blue border or something until the girl in there is 18 and then you can start beating off on you know yeah sorry that's what I should
[00:26:35] Keith: What is the legality of... it The law must be about when how old the person was when when the photo was taken, not when the photo was published.
[00:26:49] Mike: That's what I should have said. I mean, it would be there it would be their profile that would change. but but but But it's the same basic reasoning that if I would like to know, when I see a photo anywhere, I would like to know if the person's under or over 18 so I can then follow all the rules.
[00:26:57] Keith: Yep.
[00:27:03] Mike: I like following all the rules. I don't want anything illegal to happen in my household.
[00:27:05] Keith: Yeah, right.
[00:27:08] Mike: but But in fact, I can't really tell because, and the reason I can't tell is sort of the base of this this question and why like I don't really understand the A minor thing against Drake. It's like a girl who's 17 years and 11 months and a girl who's 18 years and one month look around the same, right?
[00:27:22] Mike: There's not some massive difference that's happened.
[00:27:23] Keith: Yeah.
[00:27:25] Mike: And if people want to make such a big difference, then like there should be more effort put into identifying that difference and also like maybe There should be something to mark women when they turn 18.
[00:27:35] Mike: Like I don't, do do women make a big deal about this? I know there's like sweet 16 and stuff, but is there a big deal about, Oh, now I can get, now any guy can fuck me or it can beat off to me or it's
[00:27:43] Keith: I'm not sure. maybe there are Maybe there is for people who want to do OnlyFans stuff. They probably ID verify.
[00:27:48] Mike: not a bad idea. There could be some sort of like sweet 16, but it's your, your only fans 18 or something like some party you have.
[00:27:53] Keith: I think that women, I think that most women think and probably most men would virtue signal that being attracted to women under 22 is gross. And so you're asking about something that like you shouldn't be attracted to anyway, right?
[00:28:05] Mike: oh
[00:28:06] Keith: They're just like mad at you for like even having the conversation. And of course that is not a reasonable position and most men would disagree with that position.
[00:28:13] Mike: Oh.
[00:28:17] Keith: But yeah, like women but would like hear our conversation here and be like, this is all gross. Like why would they like an 18 year old? Why would they like a 19 year old even, right? And so that, you know, like demarcating officially when they, you know, cross the legality Rubicon is not an important thing because it, you know, you shouldn't be interested when they're over 18 either.
[00:28:28] Mike: Yeah, okay.
[00:28:38] Mike: Yeah. I mean, maybe there's maybe, maybe the way it should work. I mean, this would, can you imagine, so, you know, that there's maybe people listening don't know this because they're in other countries or something, but there's been a push across the United States really to make it so that porn requires age verification.
[00:28:53] Mike: Are you familiar with this Keith? Like in Texas, ah you don't, you don't know anything about this.
[00:28:54] Keith: Mm-hmm. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Viewing porn requires yes.
[00:28:59] Mike: Yeah. Right. and so And so Pornhub has gone dark in a lot of states. And so this causes on on porn subreddits, people will complain because they can't get to a certain porn because it's and it's because they're in Alabama or something and they can't access Pornhub.
[00:29:12] Mike: And so this has caused an increase in adoption of VPNs, which is a good
[00:29:16] Keith: Can you sign up for an account on Pornhub and ID verify and then get access to Pornhub?
[00:29:20] Mike: No, no, because Pornhub thus far has refused to set up an ID verification thing and conservative commentators and like it's a decent argument have basically said like, oh, and sorry, the reason why Pornhub hasn't wanted to do this and Pornhub is far and away the largest ah porn site on the web.
[00:29:25] Keith: I see.
[00:29:36] Mike: So it's basically just them.
[00:29:37] Keith: Porn purveyor
[00:29:39] Mike: porn purveyor. Onlyfans is also a porn purveyor, just a different style. Anyway, the reason they've given is that they don't want to have to secure people's personal details like that.
[00:29:50] Mike: And then, of course, conservative commentators have said, well, if you can't trust them to do that, why are you using their site at all? They're probably just like, they know who you are, and they're just telling your wife what you're doing, which is a decent argument.
[00:29:57] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:01] Mike: Anyway, so thus far, actually, no. The only thing you can do is VPN out of this place, but you could imagine this going to the point with our with the Trump era restrictions here of making it so that you can only watch porn that's in an appropriate age range for you. So Keith, what would you how would you feel if there was a law passed that said you could only watch porn of 40 and up year old women?
[00:30:26] Mike: Keith's life just flashed for his eyes. He's like, no, no, don't do that.
[00:30:30] Keith: Oh my God. um Well, that would be wonderful because of course, I'm only, a yeah yeah, I don't have anything great to say here.
[00:30:33] Mike: Yeah.
[00:30:38] Mike: You would not like that.
[00:30:39] Keith: I'm still processing the the mere suggestion.
[00:30:43] Keith: No.
[00:30:43] Mike: this ah yeah but but i mean that's really When people say that wanting to look at a 21-year-old is gross, that's really what that where that's come from. It's not gross for a 21-year-old guy. right We can agree on that.
[00:30:54] Mike: The issue is a guy much older.
[00:30:54] Keith: Right. I mean, like a 14 year old boy can be attracted to a 14 year old girl.
[00:30:58] Mike: right so what people
[00:30:59] Keith: I don't understand what people think. Like, do they think a 15 year old boy can, a 16, a 17? Like, does everybody think that there's just like there's these really short bell curves of acceptability or something?
[00:31:10] Mike: I really like this idea.
[00:31:10] Keith: Like, what are they imagining in their heads?
[00:31:12] Mike: I think this would if if they really wanted to gore the oxen of the porn consumers in America, they would implement such a such a rule because it would be it would yeah it would be truly destructive.
[00:31:21] Keith: An age thing.
[00:31:24] Mike: You'd have to have the ages of all the people in the metadata for the porn. And then there's this issue of like, if you have a threesome porn, I guess you have to take the oldest of the women or older of the women.
[00:31:33] Keith: Hmm average age or something Yeah, yeah you would need the younger what if there's a young man, what if the porn star is young
[00:31:34] Mike: And you yeah, well, no, the younger you. So the point is if there's like, if there's a 22 year old in there and you can't write, you can't watch that. I don't know. And what would you do with gay porn? Like the whole thing becomes, it's just the whole house of cards falls down. ah there I was listening to a conservative commentator podcast last night while I was cleaning my garage, and he was talking about how he thinks porn is terrible. It's a Matt Walsh, you know who that is? He was the guy who did Amiracist, as I've talked about him on the podcast before.
[00:32:03] Mike: And he he just has all this venom for porn, and I just couldn't disagree more. I started viewing porn in the late 80s, and I'm one of the first ah to get ah porn via my computer, ah via modem, and then...
[00:32:16] Mike: And I've...
[00:32:16] Keith: I remember, yeah, I, you, you were, you're a little older than me, but yeah, so you probably were using, I had a 9,600 button modem and I remember, yeah, I would like set it up so that it was going to download like five images and then I would go do something and then I would come back and I would have the five images and I'd be excited to open all five of them.
[00:32:19] Mike: Yeah.
[00:32:32] Mike: Right.
[00:32:35] Mike: Yeah.
[00:32:36] Keith: You know, it was fun times.
[00:32:37] Mike: I have to say like in my life, porn has, it's very few things in my life have only been positive. Very few. I mean, most things have a negative edge to them, but porn in my life has only been positive.
[00:32:48] Keith: There's a monkey spa.
[00:32:52] Mike: It has never hurt me. It's been, it's it's like a teddy bear. It's been a friend with me my whole life. And there's just no, I just really don't think there's any downsides.
[00:33:02] Mike: I'm i'm not, I don't feel guilty or shamed.
[00:33:04] Keith: You don't know if parallel universe Mike is leading a more fulfilled life though.
[00:33:05] Mike: I just,
[00:33:09] Mike: I'm really confident on this one. They're like, it's, it would only be worse to not have access to porn. It's just, it's a friend indeed.
[00:33:16] Keith: That's my feeling as well, but they people think that denying that kind of easy access to sexual gratification could have some positives.
[00:33:31] Mike: Like what?
[00:33:33] Keith: Maybe it would drive you more?
[00:33:35] Mike: To what? To murder?
[00:33:36] Keith: I don't know. Too frustration.
[00:33:39] Mike: No, I don't i mean, to to prostitutes?
[00:33:40] Keith: Yeah.
[00:33:41] Mike: I mean, what would it like? No, it's just it's it's yeah, I don't I just I don't know. I think that I think that porn, easy access to porn is perhaps the greatest invention of the dawn of the 21st century.
[00:33:54] Keith: Don't people imagine, you know, men just like in their basements with their hairy palms, you know, pathetically doing nothing with their lives and looking at porn all the time. Isn't that the sort of trope?
[00:34:07] Mike: ah That may exist. it's just not it's not That doesn't speak to me. What speaks to me is like having some outlet and basically not being whipsawed by like insane female behavior, like sort of having you're having this niche and this way that you can control this. It would be like if there was a food that people who were inclined to be obese could eat that just wasn't fattening. It's just great. It's like this thing you can do that meets the need, but you don't.
[00:34:37] Mike: There are no negative side effects.
[00:34:39] Keith: Maybe you would pursue women less. Maybe it's worse for women that porn is so accessible.
[00:34:44] Mike: That's not my problem. That's just not my problem. like Yeah, maybe.
[00:34:48] Keith: Maybe maybe it makes you more sexually aggressive and gives you unrealistic expectations of women.
[00:34:48] Mike: maybe it could have out It could have externalities for other people.
[00:34:55] Mike: I don't think so for me. I think it's because it's because I'm like a reasonable person who consumes it and can see like what's reasonable. It's not. I'm able to see variety. I will admit, like Obviously it's not great for the performers, but I mean like you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs You have some guilt about porn consumption, so you've probably thought about this like how how bad it is for you
[00:35:07] Keith: Sure, sure, sure.
[00:35:11] Keith: Maybe.
[00:35:14] Keith: ah
[00:35:22] Keith: I just wonder. I wonder if my relationships would be better. I'm not sure it's great to have this like.
[00:35:34] Keith: easy way to access an 8 out of 10 orgasm all the time.
[00:35:40] Mike: Hmm Yeah, I don't I don't
[00:35:40] Keith: I can imagine some downside to that. You're married, so it's like a different...
[00:35:47] Keith: yeah like we We have like different initial conditions.
[00:35:52] Keith: I generally think porn is great. i am you know I am welcome to give it up, and I have you know elected not to.
[00:35:58] Mike: i think that i I have to say, like even objectively, like I think that in a dating environment, it puts less pressure on the woman to have sex with you quickly.
[00:36:05] Keith: Yeah, that that I agree.
[00:36:07] Mike: and so it's i mean it so There's this mal this this be male behavior that was perfectly adaptive in a hunter-gatherer time when like you could have sex with someone and run away and then they'd have to have your baby or whatever.
[00:36:18] Mike: like There were various like kind of not so great things that could go on. Well, now that's not possible. and so What are the guys supposed to do? You know, and so like having a reasonable outlet for it, you know, yeah, I mean, I just think it's maybe someday there'll be some, I mean, the the female equivalent of this is probably like the misguided desire to have tons of babies that now you know is no longer adaptive ah because there aren't childhood illnesses to kill them.
[00:36:37] Keith: Hmm.
[00:36:41] Mike: Uh, and so maybe there's some way that AI could invent something that is equivalent for women where they could basically feel like they have lots of babies or something. And so then they could see something like this, it's only a positive.
[00:36:52] Keith: Yeah, it could be.
[00:36:54] Mike: One can only hope.
[00:36:54] Keith: I wonder if I would masturbate less if I had easy access to porn or if I did not have easy access to porn.
[00:37:04] Mike: You would learn to masturbate without porn because it would you would you get better at like whatever.
[00:37:09] Keith: Is that a bonus of not having access to porn? Your um your imagination would be sharper.
[00:37:19] Mike: No.
[00:37:20] Keith: Listen, I'm trying here to like steal me on the anti-porn case. It's hard for me to do so.
[00:37:25] Mike: i actually thought actually thought where i thought that I actually thought what you were gonna say was that it would prevent you from having, what do you call it, death grip, right?
[00:37:26] Keith: But I've thrown about seven pieces of spaghetti at the wall, and they're all just sliding down.
[00:37:36] Mike: So you wouldn't, but but even there, I think it's worth it because it's not, it's it's just, yeah, I mean, ah having self-determination about this critical aspect of your male life, I just think is completely worth it.
[00:37:37] Keith: um Oh, yeah.
[00:37:51] Mike: You know what it is? ah You know what the analogy is here? You know how women, during the election campaign would talk about bodily autonomy.
[00:37:57] Keith: Yeah.
[00:37:57] Mike: And this is how I feel about it. This is actually right. I feel exactly the way women feel about abortion, like liberal women feel about abortion. That's how I feel about porn. It's actually true.
[00:38:06] Keith: Huh.
[00:38:06] Mike: Taking away porn to me would be like taking away abortion.
[00:38:07] Keith: I see where you're going here, but yeah.
[00:38:11] Mike: Yeah, it's my it's part of my bodily autonomy.
[00:38:11] Keith: Why don't you explain the analogy a bit more. like Yeah, lay on the plane here.
[00:38:14] Mike: Yeah, yeah like like women view being able to prevent themselves from getting pregnant, not being forced to take a pregnancy to term as like a way to be a full human being.
[00:38:25] Mike: And I think it's the same thing. Preventing me from being able to nut how and when and and and what intensity that I want in the maximal way possible. Yeah, like I feel like I'm not a fully human being then.
[00:38:36] Mike: It's like, look, this is, Like, just like women's bodies are designed to spit out babies, my body's designed to spit out semen. And I gotta be able to do that how I want.
[00:38:43] Keith: It's to be fully fulfilled as a man. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think I strongly agree with that.
[00:38:48] Mike: Yeah.
[00:38:51] Mike: Yeah.
[00:38:51] Keith: I don't, I don't know about the analogy, but I like it.
[00:38:54] Mike: Yeah.
[00:38:54] Keith: Um, I think most liberal women, I think most liberal women would agree though.
[00:38:55] Mike: It makes me a little more of a choice, actually.
[00:39:00] Keith: Well, I don't know. A lot of women are pretty anti-porn.
[00:39:09] Mike: Yeah. Well, a lot of men are anti abortions. So there you have it. ah You know, I mean, I could even make it, you know, like men, you know, women when they abort are killing a baby fetus. A man is killing a lot of sperm. So you're both killing. I think there's a lot of analogies here. I hadn't thought of that before. Yeah.
[00:39:27] Keith: Well, the sperm's gonna die, either in a wet dream or in an act active agency or together.
[00:39:34] Mike: That's true. So you could say men or eat men's men's desires they are better than women's, because we're not we at least we're not like killing something that could become a human with good odds. We're killing something that was going to die anyway. we're just It's just nature's taking its course.
[00:39:48] Keith: Yeah, although I do think some people think killing sperm, but the spermicide is, like i I think they're, is this right? There's some cultures where like spermicidal lubricant aren't used because it's considered.
[00:40:03] Keith: Although I don't know if you have that on condoms.
[00:40:04] Mike: because you're murdering the sperm.
[00:40:06] Keith: Yeah, I'm not sure.
[00:40:07] Mike: They also don't use back antibacterial soaps because they don't want to kill bacteria.
[00:40:12] Keith: Well, I think Sikhs are like that or Jains. No, Jains, right?
[00:40:16] Mike: i don't you Bacteria, you probably do want to kill, so it's hard to say.
[00:40:21] Keith: I think Jainism is the one where they're not supposed to kill any living thing.
[00:40:22] Mike: someone else
[00:40:26] Mike: that's That's really stupid.
[00:40:26] Keith: I don't know if it extends to bacteria.
[00:40:29] Mike: I mean, i if it extends to bacteria, that's a really dumb idea. Like, look, we gotta keep that ah smallpox virus alive. It's like, what?
[00:40:36] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking, you know, women are very anti-porn. I think one of the reasons why I don't really think about porn in relation to my, you know, past female partners is I haven't had the experience where I felt like she was masturbating all the time and was less available to me because of it.
[00:41:00] Keith: But I bet a lot of women have the experience where men are masturbating all the time and are less available to them because of it. And so i'm i'm I might concoct some sort of reason in my mind why I'm anti-porn, even if I
[00:41:08] Mike: i i think that happens
[00:41:15] Keith: intellectually think that I shouldn't be. I might, because I really want to be anti-porn, I might concoct some reasons.
[00:41:18] Mike: know
[00:41:21] Keith: I'm a little bit sympathetic to the female case here.
[00:41:22] Mike: this is yeah This is a noisy minority situation and it would be analogous to something like a woman who's like a total frequent flier or getting abortions or something. She's like, come on, can't you figure it out? Yes, there are going to be men who in this sort of antisocial maladaptive way get too into porn. But the vast majority of men in my experience from talking to people, reading all this kind of stuff,
[00:41:45] Mike: are just using it the way every guy uses it, which is like, we want to nut a lot more often than women want to consume nut. It's just that.
[00:41:51] Keith: Right, right.
[00:41:52] Mike: It's just that. And also, it's not just want to, it's like, and are available to. There can be various reasons.
[00:41:57] Keith: Sure, yeah, there's various pragmatic issues. and
[00:42:00] Mike: Right. And I realized like Ali, you know, who's not here today, uh, notwithstanding like she, she frequently has the experience of like a guy not being able to keep up with her. I know that happens. Like this is a thing that happens, but I think it's in a small minority of cases is much more common to have the guy wanting to shoot out a lot of nut and the woman just say, look, I don't know.
[00:42:17] Keith: I don't, do you think that it's the case that all of Ali's partner's orgasms are coming with Ali?
[00:42:24] Mike: No, I mean, it's not possible, but I, but I think that, um,
[00:42:25] Keith: Yeah, I don't either. Yeah. i think I think, yeah, I think those things are almost orthogonal, which is how much the man wants to have sex with his partner and how much he's masturbating.
[00:42:39] Mike: Yeah, it's an interesting question. Um, I, I don't have, I don't have a whole lot of, I haven't had a whole lot of reading or conversations with guys where sort of, you could imagine the woman is naked in the next room ready for sex and he's in the bathroom beating off.
[00:42:51] Mike: Like I'm sure that happens.
[00:42:52] Keith: Right. He's like, oh, no, she's born. Right.
[00:42:54] Mike: Yeah, I'm sure that happens. I think it's somewhat unlikely. And I would say with Ali's situation, my guess is that our partners often they're in a different town. Like I know that, you know,
[00:43:01] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's pragmatic issues there with her.
[00:43:03] Mike: Yeah, she's dating sort of people with excellent careers who are often traveling and so forth. And so it's not.
[00:43:09] Keith: ah Yeah. I mean, I have problems relating to a number of issues around this. Like death grip, for example, is hard for me to relate to. Like the idea, like I generally don't struggle to like come inside a woman's vagina if I'm up in there. And so yeah, like death grip is a little hard for me to understand, but yeah, maybe I just don't have enough imagination to imagine how far down the porn rabbit hole some people go.
[00:43:31] Mike: Well,
[00:43:32] Keith: I consume plenty of porn, I feel like, but maybe there are people that are in order order of magnitude more.
[00:43:38] Mike: I think that your master, maybe
[00:43:39] Keith: it would be It might actually be literally impossible to be in order of magnitude more.
[00:43:44] Mike: just be all day long.
[00:43:45] Keith: More than like one-tenth of my waking hours are consuming porn.
[00:43:49] Mike: Yeah, no, I mean, that would that would be challenging. the ah the My first past thought on that is that your masturbatory technique prevents the onset of death grip because you are using lubrication,
[00:43:59] Keith: Ooh, with my shear or sleeve.
[00:44:05] Mike: And, uh, yeah, and you're using, yeah, you, you, you, you typically, it would be associated with actually gripping it really tightly.
[00:44:11] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:11] Mike: And like, I think you actually don't do that. Right.
[00:44:15] Keith: No, ah no I've spent some more time thinking about this and paying attention to my habits.
[00:44:16] Mike: Well, there you go.
[00:44:22] Mike: Right. So you, you have a more, uh, kind of feminine frilly touch on your penis that you use, so to speak.
[00:44:27] Keith: Are you, are you suggesting that if I had a more normal foreskin, I might actually have death grip? Like i you think I am masturbating to have suffered from that affliction?
[00:44:36] Mike: Yes. Yes.
[00:44:38] Keith: Yeah, I thought that's where you were going.
[00:44:40] Mike: I feel confident about this because you've mentioned before, uh, two things.
[00:44:40] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:43] Mike: One is like three to four times a day masturbating sometimes. And secondly, you have some desire to see how many times you could orgasm in a day. And and like, you thought the number might be like 12 or 27 or something.
[00:44:51] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:53] Mike: It was a quite a high number.
[00:44:53] Keith: No, so it's not 27 or 12.
[00:44:56] Mike: Okay.
[00:44:57] Keith: I think I have in the last year masturbated six times in a day, a few times.
[00:45:02] Mike: Okay.
[00:45:03] Keith: And I suspect I could get that to like eight, maybe ah maybe nine.
[00:45:10] Mike: I mean, this, this already has to be.
[00:45:12] Keith: But i mean it really would it would require advanced planning. like I would have to wake up early, you know masturbate, ah have a nice breakfast. ah And and you know I would have to have all this porn set up because you know I would need like new stimulation for each time.
[00:45:27] Keith: And having 10 things teed up is kind of you know hard to do.
[00:45:28] Mike: Right.
[00:45:31] Keith: But you know say I did. And then
[00:45:34] Mike: Well, it'd be 10 sessions, right?
[00:45:34] Keith: you know
[00:45:36] Mike: So 10 sessions of like what, you know,
[00:45:37] Keith: Yeah, that's true. Right. Yeah. 10 sessions of like 20 different things. yeah Now I need, you know, 200 things lined up and maybe more for the later sessions.
[00:45:41] Mike: Yes.
[00:45:43] Mike: Right.
[00:45:45] Keith: And then yeah, you you don't want to spend too long in any given session because you don't want to get chafing.
[00:45:45] Mike: I think that i think to no I think to do that, you would want, I think the ideal way to do that if you wanted to would be to somehow have sessions with like cam girls set up so then they could optimize for you what they were going to do or something like that.
[00:45:49] Keith: Like you you want to like minimize the wear and tear early. Like it's just, it's hard to do.
[00:46:06] Keith: I don't know, man.
[00:46:08] Mike: That would more.
[00:46:08] Keith: They introduce some variants.
[00:46:11] Mike: Hmm.
[00:46:11] Keith: They introduce higher um maxim maximum, up higher upside, but they also introduce variants that you, I just need consistency and predictability, I think.
[00:46:15] Mike: Yeah.
[00:46:23] Mike: Well, but don't, you okay. Why? Because you think they might, their attractiveness might not be an up to par or they might not.
[00:46:28] Keith: I don't know, or they do something weird, or they fart, or I don't know. if There's, you know, there's just, who knows?
[00:46:33] Mike: Oh, interesting. But they're on camera. They're not in person. Okay.
[00:46:37] Keith: Well, yeah, I would hear the fart, I guess. I don't know. if I was trying to think of something gross they could do.
[00:46:43] Mike: Yeah, okay. Yeah, they could.
[00:46:44] Keith: Maybe maybe they have, you know, some toilet paper on their labia. Who knows?
[00:46:47] Mike: Right, right, right. There could be some problem. um Yeah, I mean, the other thing I was thinking is you could have actual physical women present just to as masturbation aids, so because then that would enact the Coolidge effect and cause you to get stimulated.
[00:47:00] Keith: Yeah, i would I would like to keep the cost of this experiment kind of low.
[00:47:03] Mike: Yeah, that makes sense.
[00:47:03] Keith: So, you know, something that I could set up on my own, some desirability. Anyway, I've alluded to this in the past. i I do have some intellectual curiosity to see how many times I could do it.
[00:47:14] Keith: i mean um
[00:47:15] Mike: i Think in a place and I know you've traveled widely like a place like Albania. I think you could probably do this pretty cheaply with real women I Bet you could keep it under a thousand dollars just need a butler Yeah
[00:47:25] Keith: I mean, even getting them in and out of like the creepy hotel room that I'm in, but like there's just too much. like once you Once you get to 10, that really is a lot of marshalling people in and out. you know like i I would almost have to meet them all the day before, sort of vet them for reasonability, and then say, like look, like this is really weird, but what I need you to do is like walk in and I need you to do these like six things in a row and then leave.
[00:47:53] Keith: Like this is such an elaborate setup also by Albanian is not strong.
[00:47:54] Mike: I think that's i think that i mean it reminds me of the woman who recently had sex with 100 guys in a 24-hour period and now wants to have with sex with 1,000, but it's a it's an amusing alternative way to do it, right where it's a guy who wants to beat off to a certain number of women.
[00:47:57] Keith: I know a few words cause I've been, but but you know, it's just, I don't.
[00:48:13] Mike: in in this yeah So there I could imagine it being some kind of ploy that way.
[00:48:13] Keith: Yeah.
[00:48:17] Mike: But yeah, the other issue I think is that when you have a session of porn that you use to masturbate, you expect to go through quite a large number of videos.
[00:48:17] Keith: Yeah.
[00:48:24] Mike: And there's high odds that one of the women shepherded into your room actually wouldn't meet your needs, right?
[00:48:24] Keith: Yeah.
[00:48:29] Keith: Yeah. I think so.
[00:48:31] Mike: Yeah. And then you want to click Next.
[00:48:32] Keith: You know, once you get into, you know, like I think on average, you know, like let's say there's an 80% chance they can get it done for me. Well, that's, that's fine. If you're just doing one or two, but if you're doing 10, you know, most likely you're going to have like, you know, two of them fail.
[00:48:45] Keith: So.
[00:48:46] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. No, i I think you might for that have to wait for AI to be able to generate 3D women in some sort of a Oculus device.
[00:48:52] Keith: Hmm. Mike, I got to tell you, I am really excited for what I think the short term AI porn future may be bringing us.
[00:49:01] Mike: What has increased your level of excitement? I mean, I i know that, well, I guess I don't know anything. Like what what what is, what is, whetted your appetite?
[00:49:08] Keith: Well, so, you know, DeepSeek is going to allow people to run their own um things locally or on inexpensive hardware. You know, the gating factor now for the, you know, highest end AI models, Claude, I'm thinking of and chat GPT, of course, is, yeah, you need like billions of dollars to like train the model and they're closed source so you can't get access to them. But Yeah, like now, if I could have a browser plugin that watches what I look at on, you know, E-Porner and Pornhub for a month, I mean, it it'll have me dialed in.
[00:49:46] Keith: It'll know what I like.
[00:49:46] Mike: Hmm. Hmm.
[00:49:48] Keith: um And it could generate text porn or, you know, what is it, cartoon porn or but you know like For now, like I think video porn generation is not great, although I think within a couple of years that I've played with Sora and one of the other models that generates video and they're they're not great yet, but they will be soon.
[00:50:08] Mike: time.
[00:50:08] Keith: But for now, they can definitely generate text and images. And especially if I could train them on, you know, the entire catalog of, you know, some Japanese anime repository or something like they could, or like, you know, some collection of real life.
[00:50:27] Keith: um images. So I just think like sometime in the next year and maybe six months, there's going to be something like what I described. Like you'll have a plugin on your browser that sort of learns what you like somehow, and then it can generate something for you, like a bespoke, bespoke born.
[00:50:39] Mike: Okay.
[00:50:43] Mike: So with the you know really conquering of the world by TikTok short form content, yeah YouTube shorts, Instagram reels, I'm sure there's other ones.
[00:50:54] Keith: Yeah.
[00:50:55] Mike: I'm sure there's a Russian equivalent. um the They've basically figured out that there are Buckets that people go into mentally, you know, there are people who want to watch Star Wars clips.
[00:51:07] Mike: They're people that want to watch Clips from the office whatever they're people that want to watch kiddies doing things um And so they're able in
[00:51:16] Keith: Thanks not gross things
[00:51:18] Mike: Yeah, yeah. and they're all um they they have a The short form videos that tend to that are successful tend to have a similar structure. There's something at the beginning that wets you that kind of gets you interested, and then very quickly it gives you some something some output from that. I think that's the structure generally. I think there's kind of a simple structure. so
[00:51:36] Keith: It actually depends a little bit. I think TikTok much more favors short form content because they measure engagement in like those first three seconds or whatever. And so TikToks have a tendency to have like a certain format because that's what the algorithm prefers.
[00:51:53] Mike: Okay.
[00:51:53] Keith: And I believe YouTube shorts and Instagram reels have slightly different tuning. And so the type of content there, but in any case, I understand what you're saying.
[00:51:58] Mike: Okay.
[00:52:01] Mike: It's very similar. I just like, I've used all three and I've, I've, I've found them to be.
[00:52:04] Keith: Well, there's a lot of cross posting now too, so they're muddying each other's waters, but in any case.
[00:52:06] Mike: That's true.
[00:52:09] Mike: the The thing I was thinking is that a couple things. One is that um there is a there is Red Gifts, which is the standard posting facility now for short form porn content, has something like this.
[00:52:22] Mike: You can swipe through like on TikTok, but it's not it's frankly not very good. like it doesn't it there's no It doesn't seem to learn very well who you are.
[00:52:30] Keith: Yeah, does it learn? I feel like red gifs, Had's decent stuff, but you have to sort by category.
[00:52:37] Mike: Right. So there's and maybe there's not enough. So there's a couple of things. One is there may not be enough content, but secondly, it may be that men that there are too many buckets that men's ah desires in terms of porn are too heterogeneous for given the amount of content there is right now online for these sites for for something like Red Gifts to be able to capture you like TikTok does where you could basically have a beat off session, just get this app and just swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. And it's basically showing you things you're going to like.
[00:53:06] Mike: 80% of the time or whatever. So then you're going to be able to get your, your nut out pretty quickly and effectively. Um, is your thought that something like AI would be, or I don't know, what do you think about that? Do you think the men's habits are heterogeneous enough that it's hard for them to like, like, do you think that, yeah, if you, if you lined up a hundred men, they would fall into, I'm imagining there's only like, um my guess is for TikTok and YouTube shorts and stuff, there aren't that many buckets.
[00:53:20] Keith: Okay. All right.
[00:53:27] Mike: There's probably like a thousand or something, but there aren't that many, but maybe for porn, there's like a million. Right. buckets being like, I want to see, you know, facials, I want to see this, I want to see that.
[00:53:34] Keith: i I understand what you're saying. yeah You're saying that, like, For short form content, there's really just like 12 or 14 axes.
[00:53:44] Mike: Kind of, yeah.
[00:53:45] Keith: And there's there's just not that much variance. You don't need to measure that many things to sort of pigeonhole people into something they're really going to like.
[00:53:54] Mike: I suspect that because it's so fucking effective.
[00:53:55] Keith: ah But porn might may have more diversity of of proclivities or something.
[00:53:58] Mike: I mean, but but yeah, but simply short form content is completely addictive to me. Like I can sit there. It's so addictive. i have to I have to actually just not use it.
[00:54:05] Keith: Yeah.
[00:54:06] Mike: I have to remove it for myself, but porn is not.
[00:54:07] Keith: I went to, I went to a dinner party. I went to a dinner party with a man in his seventies, um, uh, a few days ago. And yeah, he was telling me that, yeah, like he had to uninstall TikTok cause he was just addicted to it.
[00:54:19] Mike: Right.
[00:54:19] Keith: Yeah.
[00:54:20] Mike: But porn has not achieved that. It's not, they do not have, I've i've never seen a platform where it could sort of present to me again and again clips that I would like. And I could sit down and write out for you what, honestly, I could tell you what, and I don't think it's what I want is that unusual, but I just suspect that either things I really don't like, like I don't want a bunch of clips of like guys jizzing on girls in girls eyes.
[00:54:42] Mike: ah there's There's like a series I've talked about on the podcast extensively.
[00:54:44] Keith: Yeah, but wouldn't it learn that? I think it could learn that.
[00:54:47] Mike: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I suspect that, but this is the thing is it may, it may be that there's that preferences are not, don't fall into a small enough number of buckets. And my thought was an AI thing could basically produce so much content that then at last you could have this sort of porn TikTok that would work.
[00:55:03] Keith: Look, ah so a couple things here. So the first thing is my intuition is that the categorization space for people's porn ah affinities is smaller than what it is in, but this that's just my intuition.
[00:55:13] Mike: Oh, okay.
[00:55:18] Keith: And I and i take your point and i I want to think about it a little bit, ah but that's my that's my primary intuition. And the second thing is, I don't know, but but that's my first thought.
[00:55:23] Mike: It's an interesting intuition. Yeah. Okay.
[00:55:28] Keith: And then the second thing is,
[00:55:32] Keith: I spend a lot of time searching for porn. I don't like it um i think some of it.
[00:55:36] Mike: Yeah. Right.
[00:55:38] Keith: I've reflected about this quite a bit. I think some of it I do like like. I kind of like the process of like, oh, yeah, I'm going to spend the next 40 minutes masturbating. and like Most of it is not there with me like actively like stroking trying to get off.
[00:55:50] Keith: A lot of it is like hunting and pecking for like you know the good stuff.
[00:55:54] Mike: right
[00:55:55] Keith: And some of that is annoying. Some of that is kind of fun. um So I'm not sure how much of that I like and how much I don't. But the algorithm, I think, could learn that about me, maybe.
[00:56:05] Mike: right
[00:56:04] Keith: And it wouldn't show me bad stuff, but it would learn like the right way to like build me. um And then maybe I could even tell it, like hey, I just have 12 minutes here. um
[00:56:17] Mike: I mean, could it be that the number of hours
[00:56:18] Keith: Layout, layout but you know give me a runway here for takeoff that you know maximizes those 12 minutes.
[00:56:23] Mike: could Could it be that the number of hours of porn and really, okay, an important caveat here is that the, you know, the number of minutes, if you have a 30 minute long porn, there's only a few minutes that matter.
[00:56:35] Mike: Like there's a bunch of time in the point that no one would ever watch. This is true for movies too or YouTube videos. So maybe the number of hours of porn that could be mined for short form content just isn't as much as all the video ever produced on YouTube and in movies and and everything, TV shows.
[00:56:44] Keith: Yeah. yeah Yeah.
[00:56:49] Mike: So maybe that's part of the problem.
[00:56:49] Keith: Yeah.
[00:56:50] Mike: And so again, Either you have to have some sort of dramatic increase in the amount, in order to feed this beast of short form porn, which I'm, by the way, I'm, I'm positive this needs to exist. Like this is clearly a thing that will exist is something like alpha porn.
[00:57:01] Keith: Oh yeah, I think everyone, that as soon as they think of it, they're like, oh yeah, wow, cool.
[00:57:06] Mike: Yeah. Uh, maybe AI is the only way to sort of get there because you have to produce such just a quantity of this, of this content that there's just no way. for human women, they they actually, there is not enough like jism in the world too.
[00:57:19] Mike: But you're like, what are the axes you're thinking of? You're thinking of like the woman's attractiveness, what is happening? So anal, missionary, doggy, blowjob.
[00:57:27] Keith: yeah, angle, probably realism, like I'm, I really like.
[00:57:29] Mike: yeah
[00:57:33] Keith: um
[00:57:36] Keith: close-ups of skin. and But I think some more people like people other people like things that are more airbrushed. Other people like things that are like literal literal anime or something.
[00:57:46] Mike: Yeah.
[00:57:48] Keith: And then there's probably like you know sort of like amount of scene and setup and like the kinds of things.
[00:57:49] Mike: Let's wait, let's.
[00:57:54] Keith: like Some people are more submissive. Some people are more dominance.
[00:57:57] Mike: Right.
[00:57:59] Keith: Some people have like, this could be great for pedophiles. and we could like
[00:58:03] Mike: Oh, yeah.
[00:58:04] Keith: generate porn for them.
[00:58:05] Mike: Yeah.
[00:58:06] Keith: And look, there's probably going to be some legal arguments. In fact, I think there already have been legal arguments about it is it cool to generate child porn.
[00:58:10] Mike: Yes.
[00:58:14] Mike: Right.
[00:58:16] Keith: But yeah, like what else?
[00:58:21] Keith: I think it would
[00:58:24] Mike: Well, if two person versus three person, like setting matters to people, right?
[00:58:29] Keith: Yeah.
[00:58:29] Mike: Uh, whether like, yeah,
[00:58:29] Keith: But see, for me, we've talked about this on the show a little bit in the past, but I go through phases, you know, I go through phases where I'm like, you know, really into women from a certain part of the world or, you know,
[00:58:42] Mike: it's a lot of axes, Keith, I don't know.
[00:58:45] Keith: Yeah, it is. But like, it seems smaller because it's all confined into this one sub genre, right? Like with with TikTok, there's like everything. There's like, you know, politics, there's dog videos, there's sports highlights, there's just all these different things.
[00:58:56] Mike: Right.
[00:59:00] Keith: And then inside of sports highlights, there's like, well, what team does he like? Does he like seeing dunks? Does he like seeing? yeah I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I can see that yeah my intuition that the the categorization space may be smaller could be wrong, but yeah, it might not be. I don't think it is a truism that it's necessarily a bigger so solution space.
[00:59:23] Mike: Do you, do you, uh, in this porn hunt, do you typically look for like recently posted porn hub videos just to have a chance for getting like new stuff?
[00:59:31] Keith: I do. Yeah, I actually sort by most recent in a lot of places.
[00:59:35] Mike: Because, and this is because people may not like a woman listener may not understand this. This is because if you don't do that, you're just going to get a ah fucking avalanche of things you've seen before. Right.
[00:59:44] Keith: Yes.
[00:59:45] Mike: Because you have like a mental model of all the pornos in the world.
[00:59:45] Keith: I actually, I consume porn at a slightly faster rate than I think it's generated. This is fucking amazing. I know how that sounds. Look, the part of it is like there's only, you know, ah but most of the porn that's generated isn't very good or isn't what I'm looking for.
[01:00:00] Mike: Right.
[01:00:01] Keith: But of the stuff that I'm looking for, it's that they don't make it fast enough.
[01:00:05] Mike: So you're always right.
[01:00:05] Keith: And I don't think I have like any weird kink. Like I, you know, Also, I'm 44. I think I masturbate. yeah I'm probably like a 90th percentile masturbator for a 44-year-old.
[01:00:16] Mike: Okay.
[01:00:16] Keith: But for an 18-year-old, I'm probably like you know a 30th percentile masturbator. So you know other people must have this problem.
[01:00:22] Mike: Well, they have the advantage that they haven't seen like the 30 years of content that you've seen.
[01:00:25] Keith: That's true. But they don't want to see, you know just like watching old movies, is it quite as satisfying? They don't have the the pace and the you know modern c computer graphics techniques. you It's the same with porn. like I think newer stuff is better.
[01:00:36] Mike: You don't, you don't find it slightly stimulating to beat off to a video of a woman that you know, no died of old age.
[01:00:40] Keith: No, no. In fact, when I, I've mentioned her before on the show, but I really liked the porn star Emily Willis and she's in a coma now.
[01:00:51] Keith: And I don't really, I'm like sort of unable to enjoy her content anymore and it's not for lack of trying. So I think she OD'd.
[01:00:59] Mike: Why is she in a coma?
[01:01:03] Mike: Huh. Interesting. So, so the fact that, you know, that has made your life significantly worse. So maybe you should fund to get her out of the coma because there's a GoFundMe.
[01:01:09] Keith: Um,
[01:01:13] Keith: I think she's officially potatoed and they're just keeping her alive for now.
[01:01:18] Mike: Oh my goodness.
[01:01:18] Keith: I think there might be some legal thing. I don't remember.
[01:01:21] Mike: Okay. Well, that's unfortunate. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't recognize her, but I believe you that she, uh, and that's okay.
[01:01:28] Keith: I can send you some links. I'm sure she'll be familiar to many of our listeners. She's a a good one.
[01:01:33] Mike: Yeah, that would be, that would be a little bit creepy, but this is, that's a little bit different than a person who dies of old age, but sure.
[01:01:38] Keith: I suppose, yeah.
[01:01:40] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. We'll have to see what the, uh, where the interview goes.
[01:01:42] Keith: i I mean, for somebody to have died of old age, I mean, we're talking about porn from 50 years ago, right?
[01:01:48] Mike: Right. This is the seventies.
[01:01:49] Keith: Yeah.
[01:01:50] Mike: There was, there was definitely porn though.
[01:01:51] Keith: Yeah, that's rare. That's true. There was.
[01:01:53] Mike: Yeah. Like, I mean, uh, the famous movie, Deep Throat or whatever.
[01:01:57] Keith: Yeah, I could probably masturbate to like old Marilyn Monroe stuff.
[01:02:01] Mike: Yeah. She didn't die of old age, but I think she OD'd.
[01:02:05] Keith: How did she die?
[01:02:08] Keith: Oh.
[01:02:11] Keith: What a surprise. um All right, that'll do it for this episode of Your Mileage May Vary. ah If you would like to contact us, you can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod at gmail dot.com. That's ymmvpod at gmail dot.com. We pay $10 for feedback, so let us know how you'd like to be paid. ah Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next week on Your Mileage May Vary.