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Episode 199: Mardi Gras Decorum, Girls Gone Mild, Strategic Ejaculation, Hairline Judgments, Clitty Litter

Team YMMV | 3-22-2025 | 1:06:22

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Keith returns from Mardi Gras and reflects on the surprisingly family-friendly atmosphere, alongside the expected open-container debauchery. He and Mike discuss bead culture, public flashing, and how social dynamics at such events can override typical social inhibitions. The conversation segues into the cultural legacy of Girls Gone Wild, including its covert marketing of hardcore pornography and the legal grey areas surrounding consent and identification. Mike notes that his preferred porn was "too advanced" for Girls Gone Wild, which is a humblebrag if there ever was one.

The hosts then shift gears into a conversation about sexual timing and relationship dynamics. They propose the surprisingly radical idea of having sex before dinner, rather than after, in part to avoid the logistical complications of digestion and sleepovers. This leads to an extended negotiation theory about ejaculation, cuddling, and the psychological benefits of clarity when dealing with the lizard brain. Keith confesses that his post-orgasm snuggling capabilities are vastly superior to his pre-orgasm ones, citing reduced mental bandwidth usage.

Later, they explore the nuanced politics of female body hair, particularly in light of the new live-action Snow White film, which has sparked online discourse due to the visible presence of peach fuzz on the lead actress's back. Keith reflects on his strong personal aversions to body hair in intimate situations, while Mike offers a more lenient, fuzz-tolerant perspective. This leads to a revealing discussion about grooming standards, attractiveness, and how to hold unreasonable preferences without becoming the villain in someone else's patriarchy narrative. Keith admits he is "maximally intolerant" of certain aesthetic features and wishes it weren’t so—though not quite enough to change.

In the final segment, the hosts dissect a listener’s account of discovering leftover toilet paper in an inconvenient location during a sexual encounter. They analyze the term "clitty litter," which is probably best left unanalyzed. Keith shares his own experiences with this phenomenon, including one instance that led to a breakup, because of course it did. The episode closes with a thoughtful consideration of pre-sex hygiene, the physics of female anatomy, and the challenges of broaching these topics without becoming a monster.

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00:01] Keith: Hello, and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I'm Keith. My co-host is Mike. And how long has it been since we recorded our last episode?
[00:00:13] Mike: It's only been two weeks. We ah had a little ah like ski week break here.
[00:00:17] Keith: Yeah, that's right.
[00:00:19] Mike: We can call it.
[00:00:19] Keith: I guess that's what you were doing. I went to i went to Mardi Gras.
[00:00:22] Mike: That's what I figured you were doing.
[00:00:24] Keith: Yeah.
[00:00:24] Mike: Yes. And you were in New Orleans.
[00:00:27] Keith: That's the place, yeah.
[00:00:28] Mike: Is there a lot of um beads for breasts? Is that a rumor?
[00:00:32] Keith: Yeah, it's pretty... mean, you know Bourbon Street has the normal debauchery you would expect. It's about a six-block stretch of bars that are sort of open air onto the street, and there's open container laws.
[00:00:48] Keith: And then it's in these old sort of, I don't know, French colonial... I don't know if that's what the architecture is called, but they all have like these second-floor balconies with these sort of like wrought iron walls.
[00:00:55] Mike: Right.
[00:01:01] Keith: um fences enclosing them and people stand up there and you know wave beads at the teeming hordes below. And it you don't need to flash them, but ah you know particularly as the evening wears on, ah people get pretty uninhibited.
[00:01:19] Mike: do you think that though yeah Do you think that the women who flash, it's going to be the less attractive ones, right?
[00:01:19] Keith: Disinhibited?
[00:01:27] Keith: Um...
[00:01:30] Mike: Like the ones where you're kind of like, I would have rather you didn't do that.
[00:01:31] Keith: yeah That's a good intuition, and there is some of that. But because everyone's doing it, it sort of creates a like a little microculture where everybody's sort of cool with it for for the the week.
[00:01:48] Mike: There's got to be somebody just recording, though. So, I mean, there's a lot of women whose breasts are now available on the fappening.net or whatever.
[00:01:51] Keith: Well,
[00:01:55] Keith: you remember Girls Gone Wild, right? like
[00:01:57] Mike: For sure.
[00:01:57] Keith: That was what, late 90s, early 2000s was their heyday.
[00:01:58] Mike: Yeah.
[00:02:00] Keith: And yeah, i feel like Mardi Gras was their Super Bowl.
[00:02:05] Mike: Well, i I learned this later because there's this series about Girls Gone Wild and Joe Francis, who, by the way, lives in Mexico now, I believe, to avoid extradition for a civil lawsuit or a judgment against him.
[00:02:05] Keith: you know
[00:02:17] Keith: Is Mexico a non-extradition?
[00:02:17] Mike: because And
[00:02:18] Keith: ah Maybe for civil lawsuits.
[00:02:19] Mike: yeah Apparently for civil stuff it is.
[00:02:20] Keith: Yeah, okay.
[00:02:20] Mike: Yeah. um and So there's a series people can watch it about that. That's kind of out now. um But um apparently Girls Gone Wild. I only really knew it from the jingles and the TV advertisements.
[00:02:32] Mike: I actually didn't view any of Girls Gone Wild because the porn I liked was too advanced for that. Like I was already way well past that style of porn.
[00:02:37] Keith: Yeah, it's too mild. Yeah.
[00:02:39] Mike: It is what I learned and I didn't know from this documentary is actually the way girls gone wild videos worked was they would have some of these women like what you're describing, like, you know, with the Mardi Gras and the beads and showing the breasts.
[00:02:51] Mike: And then they would start. And then basically what they would do is they would find women at these events who are willing to go have sex with them and film a porn and they would have like lesbian stuff.
[00:02:57] Keith: Okay. They'd say.
[00:02:59] Mike: And like, so it was basically like you'd get the tape apparently in like 15 minutes into it. It would just turn into hardcore porn. And that's it was like a cover. It was a way for people to buy hardcore porn without seeming like they were doing so.
[00:03:11] Mike: And I had no idea of that, which shows how good their cover was.
[00:03:12] Keith: I didn't either. Yeah. I mean, for our younger listeners, ah yeah, they this company, Girls Gone Wild, would... I mean, they just canvassed the airwaves. as say you know After 10 p.m. on basically any channel, you you'd be likely to see a Girls Gone Wild commercial. And the standard thing would be, you know oh, you know we're here in Miami for...
[00:03:36] Keith: you know, whatever event. And, you know, there's these girls on the street and they would, you know, offer them beads or alcohol or something for them to, you know, lift up their shirts. And it would just be scene after scene after scene of that.
[00:03:45] Mike: Yeah,
[00:03:48] Keith: And it'd be like, oh, you know, for, you know, $24.99 plus shipping and handling, you can, we'll mail you a VHS of this. But, okay, it sounds like it wasn't just that on the VHS.
[00:03:59] Mike: yeah and then, of course, they you know the problems they had included not checking identification early on in the business's operations.
[00:03:59] Keith: Yeah.
[00:04:04] Keith: Yeah.
[00:04:06] Mike: And so even they would ask them, but of course the woman would lie, which is interesting because it's like, where is the obligation there? But I guess The obligation is ultimately on the person filming.
[00:04:14] Keith: Yeah.
[00:04:15] Mike: So they have to get an ID and make sure the picture looks right and so forth.
[00:04:19] Keith: yeah
[00:04:19] Mike: And then, yeah, they would um bring these women back. And then, you know, the the the documentary is all about how the women felt coerced and stuff, which I'm sure happened. Although and think a lot of it's just disinhibited, disinhibited drunk people doing things and and not realizing like yeah yeah there was there were women who complained because like they they would be recognized everywhere for having been in one of these things.
[00:04:39] Keith: Yeah, I mean, it's tricky. um Some people conflate regret with coercion and they're two different things.
[00:04:47] Mike: Right, right.
[00:04:51] Mike: Well, mean, coercion ultimately is like a legal concept, right?
[00:04:51] Keith: That's
[00:04:53] Mike: i mean you either were or you weren't, you know, but they felt coerced.
[00:04:55] Keith: right. Yeah.
[00:04:58] Mike: So.
[00:04:58] Keith: Well, and they'd certainly feel in retrospect that they were coerced. So it's, it's tricky.
[00:05:04] Mike: Sure.
[00:05:05] Keith: Yeah.
[00:05:05] Mike: It's like if I lose $1,000 at a casino later, I feel like I was of coerced into doing that, but may not quite be true. Yeah.
[00:05:13] Keith: Right. Yeah, the flashing lights compelled me to do this. It's not my fault.
[00:05:16] Mike: Yeah, it's an easy way to like assuage your own guilt is to imagine that you had no choice anyway.
[00:05:21] Keith: Right. um Anyway, just one but one last thing on Mardi Gras. It's actually, i mean, the Bourbon Street stuff set aside, it's a pretty family-friendly week. I was there for about five days leading up to Mardi Gras and Mardi Gras itself.
[00:05:36] Keith: And there's parades every day. And it's, you know, the crowds are multigenerational. mean, everything from grandparents to grandchildren. And, you know, people throw out, they call them throws. And one of the parades...
[00:05:49] Keith: I saw a claim to have 2.5 million pounds of throws. So, you know, there'll be like 40 different floats that go by and they all throw, it's not just beads. They throw stuffed animals and toys and candy and,
[00:06:02] Keith: There's one parade through hand-painted coconuts.
[00:06:02] Mike: Isn't it?
[00:06:04] Keith: They all have like a slightly different theme. um one i saw a night parade, and some of them were throwing out like necklaces that lit up and glow glowed, and headbands and glasses.
[00:06:08] Mike: and
[00:06:15] Keith: and By the end of it, like the entire cloud was sort of crowd was sort of blinking. That was kind of neat. Anyway, yeah, it was more wholesome in that sense than I was imagining. It was fun.
[00:06:25] Keith: I enjoyed it.
[00:06:26] Mike: I imagine like at core. Is it the same time as Carnival?
[00:06:32] Keith: Carnival has been co-opted in a lot of places.
[00:06:32] Mike: not sure.
[00:06:34] Keith: But traditionally, i think Carnival is like the weeks leading up to Mardi Gras.
[00:06:42] Mike: Okay, yeah.
[00:06:41] Keith: Carnival ends with Mardi Gras.
[00:06:43] Mike: Yeah, so it's Lent. It's some Catholic thing where you have Lent.
[00:06:45] Keith: Well, and then Lent comes after. It starts with Ash Wednesday, the day after Mardi Gras.
[00:06:50] Mike: Okay. Okay. So in Lent, of course, is when you're supposed to fast and give up something for ah your religious religious faith.
[00:06:54] Keith: Yes.
[00:06:57] Mike: And so, of course, Louisiana being French descended and French being a Catholic country, you probably have some similar thing in Quebec. And I know you have Brazil and places like that.
[00:07:04] Keith: Yeah.
[00:07:05] Mike: So, yeah, it makes sense. It would be a family thing because it's ultimately a religious festival.
[00:07:10] Keith: yeah Not coincidentally, I have given up alcohol for Lent.
[00:07:11] Mike: Yeah.
[00:07:14] Keith: I've never given up anything for Lent. I'm not a religious man, but I may have partied a little bit too hard in New Orleans.
[00:07:22] Mike: Did you consider giving up masturbation?
[00:07:25] Keith: No. That would be a much bigger concession for me.
[00:07:26] Mike: That's impossible. Hmm. Hmm.
[00:07:28] Keith: I'm not sure I could.
[00:07:29] Mike: Hmm.
[00:07:29] Keith: Yeah.
[00:07:31] Mike: Not sure you could. It would be rough. It would be a toughie.
[00:07:34] Keith: If I were seeing somebody, it would be easier.
[00:07:38] Mike: So like, and suffice.
[00:07:38] Keith: But even then, i like to fill in the gaps with a good old tug.
[00:07:40] Mike: Yeah.
[00:07:43] Mike: And suffice it to say you've never done no nut November.
[00:07:46] Keith: now
[00:07:47] Mike: Yeah.
[00:07:48] Keith: I have some intellectual curiosity about how I would feel.
[00:07:48] Mike: Yeah.
[00:07:51] Mike: Hmm.
[00:07:53] Keith: And you know i I do other things, like I you know do intermittent fasting, and it's pretty unpleasant.
[00:07:58] Mike: yeah
[00:08:00] Keith: ah But it's interesting to examine. it It makes me feel, my mind feels a lot clearer. And I sort of wonder how, two weeks into not having an orgasm, how I might feel.
[00:08:11] Keith: But I don't wonder enough to actually do it.
[00:08:12] Mike: yeah Right. My main exposure to No Nut November is just that around that time of year, there are a bunch of porns where women gleefully claim that they broke.
[00:08:20] Keith: try Try to break your streak. break your streak yeah
[00:08:22] Mike: Well, they do. And so, no, they break some guys, No Nut November, and then he has just a massive ejaculation in the porn. It's like, oh, okay, there there he goes. He's, you know, two weeks in and she she she got him to ejaculate.
[00:08:35] Mike: um
[00:08:35] Keith: right
[00:08:35] Mike: Some great feet.
[00:08:36] Keith: i don't think getting a man to want to orgasm is that hard for a woman to do.
[00:08:41] Mike: I don't think so.
[00:08:42] Keith: like I'm not impressed.
[00:08:43] Mike: No.
[00:08:43] Keith: like if ah If a beautiful woman like you know steadfastly decided she wanted me to orgasm, like I think she could do it, Mike. It's not an impressive accomplishment.
[00:08:50] Mike: Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree.
[00:08:55] Keith: um All right, you have any patter for us?
[00:08:57] Mike: Yeah. OK, so couple things. um If you have it occurred to me. If you have a woman. So, OK, if a woman wants to be soothed because she doesn't feel something bad's going on, she's sad, whatever.
[00:09:13] Keith: Emotionally or mentally?
[00:09:13] Mike: Yes.
[00:09:14] Keith: Okay.
[00:09:14] Mike: Yes.
[00:09:15] Keith: Yeah.
[00:09:15] Mike: It occurs to me that. ah So as a guy. ah Well, I mean, men generally between men don't touch each other. Let's say physically that's kind of a male.
[00:09:26] Keith: No.
[00:09:27] Mike: Males don't like to touch each other i'm outside of the gay verse I'm saying.
[00:09:31] Keith: Uh-huh.
[00:09:32] Mike: But a man could go to a woman that he knows. You could imagine ah if you're not you're having a bad day and you're there's a woman that you know, ah family member, whatever. that's not Let's not exclude family members, but a woman you know, and she might touch your arm.
[00:09:45] Mike: There's these various like touches that might happen to sort of like make you feel better, hug you, and so forth.
[00:09:49] Keith: and She might offer to give you a hug. Yeah.
[00:09:51] Mike: Right. It occurred to me, i was thinking about this, and I realized that for a woman, there is not really a parallel or an equivalent thing because... And I wonder if you've had experience with this kind of situation. If a woman wants to be soothed by a man, there's always going to be a sexual dimension to that, right?
[00:10:08] Keith: Hmm.
[00:10:08] Mike: Like, like, so in other words, when a woman, and this could happen in a relationship too, when a woman's not feeling well, or she's sad or something like that, um, the, any sort of physical contact that's initiated with a man is likely to provoke a touching of her breasts or something.
[00:10:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:10:24] Mike: And then it's a pretty negative thing. Is this something you've experienced with women where they, where they sort of are unhappy about this or slap you away if you start initiating sex when they're trying to be soothed?
[00:10:35] Keith: You have not seen Curb Your Enthusiasm, right? Okay.
[00:10:38] Mike: I've only seen episodes. I currently am going through friends, which I had oddly generally in my generation.
[00:10:42] Keith: Okay.
[00:10:44] Mike: I should have seen it all that I'm in season three. And so I'd only seen in Curb Your Enthusiasm is like that. I've only seen like 20 episodes kind of sporadically through the series, so I don't.
[00:10:52] Keith: i would I would recommend immediately aborting the Friends Project.
[00:10:53] Mike: Yeah.
[00:10:56] Keith: um
[00:10:57] Mike: Why is that?
[00:10:58] Keith: I just don't like that show.
[00:10:59] Mike: Have you watched friends? Hang on. Have you watched friends?
[00:11:02] Keith: I've seen every episode, but I saw them in the
[00:11:03] Mike: Okay. do you Do you know about the party? Let me ask, because I've been asking, I've been polling women about this one. Do you know? We should get back to the career the the the soothing thing, but you know about you you you know the phrase, i we were on a break.
[00:11:11] Keith: yeah, yeah.
[00:11:16] Keith: Yes, Ross and Rachel, right?
[00:11:17] Mike: Okay. Yeah, and you know do you know in there was a two-episode arc where this happened, where ah they they something happened, and then Ross had sex with somebody, and then they break up because Rachel's very upset about this.
[00:11:28] Mike: You're familiar with this this senior...
[00:11:30] Keith: I remember, yes.
[00:11:31] Mike: Okay. do you Who do you think was in the right there? Do
[00:11:35] Keith: um I don't remember the specifics of the...
[00:11:38] Mike: you want me to tell you the specifics really quickly?
[00:11:38] Keith: Well, the verbiage around the break is important.
[00:11:43] Mike: Yeah, so Rachel... rachel ah Ross, it's their anniversary, like, I don't know, a year, or six months, whatever. Ross and Rachel's working very hard at her job. And as always in TV show, she works at Abercrombie. So it's like they they they never have real jobs, right? nobody Everybody's always an actor or a whatever.
[00:12:01] Keith: Yeah.
[00:12:01] Mike: They don't like nobody. Nobody's like an although ah Chandler sort of seems to have a real job anyway. He tries to have like an anniversary dinner. She's so busy and has to work all night. She rejects him and tells him to leave, which to me didn't ring true because I think no woman essentially would do that. Women typically like don't want to kick somebody out.
[00:12:17] Keith: Yeah. This is for, wait, it was an anniversary dinner. Is that what you said?
[00:12:19] Mike: Yes, yes.
[00:12:20] Keith: Okay.
[00:12:20] Mike: And he brings it to her work and she's upset because she's she's so busy that it's just annoying to have him there trying to light a candle and have an anniversary dinner.
[00:12:26] Keith: wow. Wow.
[00:12:28] Mike: I could see a man getting angry about that. A woman that's not didn't ring true to me.
[00:12:32] Keith: Yeah, you would think she would admire, not admire, she would be thankful of for the ah romantic gesture.
[00:12:35] Mike: Exactly.
[00:12:38] Mike: Right. So then Ross leaves later sometime. Yeah. later Later sometime she comes and they they meet up and he is expecting apology from her and she's expecting apology from him. They get into a fight and then she says maybe we should take a break.
[00:12:52] Mike: Okay.
[00:12:52] Keith: seems like she wanted to take a break before all that if she was irritated by his mere presence.
[00:12:53] Mike: And so then
[00:12:56] Mike: Possibly, possibly.
[00:12:57] Keith: Yeah.
[00:12:58] Mike: Okay, she says that, and then he goes to a bar to sort of drown his sorrows, and this woman he meets up with, and he has a one-night stand.
[00:13:06] Keith: Yeah, right.
[00:13:06] Mike: And then she becomes very angry that he did that. um And there's another detail that's not as important, but yeah, who do you think is to blame there?
[00:13:15] Keith: I mean, this gets into a thing that I've brought up before, but let's say I'm seeing somebody and i know she likes me more than I like her. And...
[00:13:27] Keith: you know Maybe I've even told her several times, like, hey, you know this is not that serious. um i don't want you you know to view this as ah you know a long-term thing.
[00:13:40] Keith: And she might even say, oh yeah, I know. But I know she's hoping that I'm going to change my mind. Is it my responsibility to to break up with her, to sort of protect her?
[00:13:51] Keith: like ah In a court of law, a judge would say, like no, you told her. like She was operating under her own free will and her own volition. ah It's not your fault that her feelings later got really hurt when you didn't change.
[00:14:03] Keith: So, yeah, like in Ross's case... and by the letter of the law, he's totally fine. like She said ah they were on a break, and
[00:14:09] Mike: Right.
[00:14:13] Keith: um but I think what she really wanted was some space or something. And then as soon as she got that space, she regretted it. And then part of that regret was like recognizing that, yeah, he was physically intimate with someone else.
[00:14:23] Mike: Yes.
[00:14:27] Keith: And like that was even more hurtful. And so But Ross could have predicted all of this, at or maybe she would maybe she would like to imagine that a better man would would be pining over her too.
[00:14:41] Keith: And so you know he would have a longer than 12-hour window between when she declared the break and went out and and slept with somebody.
[00:14:48] Mike: But isn't that, I mean, is isn't that fundamentally at its core like an anti-feminist message? It's basically saying that men should not listen to women, that men should be like, oh, you don't mean that.
[00:14:57] Keith: Right.
[00:14:58] Mike: And it's like, well, wait a minute. Don't you want us to believe you mean what you say?
[00:15:02] Keith: Right, right.
[00:15:02] Mike: Like, isn't that you want to be treated as equals? you don't want to be treated as children, right?
[00:15:06] Keith: Yeah. I think that's a good point, actually. Because it is sort of infantilizing of the woman, right? The woman says, ah ah can't believe you came to my office. I told you I was busy.
[00:15:20] Keith: um and And in fact, now that I think about it, maybe we should take a break.
[00:15:25] Mike: Yep.
[00:15:25] Keith: And the man is supposed to decode that as, oh, she's just stressed and she'll probably change her mind shortly. So I should just stand by ah like a s simp and hope that she comes around.
[00:15:39] Mike: Yeah. What's the difference between that and decoding the woman saying, you know, I don't feel like having sex as she wants to have sex. I just have to push more.
[00:15:46] Keith: right yeah well you're supposed to have the perfect decoder ring mike um and yeah i mean i think the reason why that's that topic has become such a firebrand over the decades is because it is sort of a delicate situation but the reality is like yeah you're right like if you are going to side with uh
[00:15:51] Mike: I see.
[00:16:10] Keith: Rachel on that one, the Jennifer Aniston character, you're sort of in this position of saying like, well, you can't really trust what women say. You have to be a bigger person than that and and try to figure out what they mean.
[00:16:21] Mike: yes Every woman I've asked so far has sided with Rachel and has been shocked that I think Ross is completely in the right.
[00:16:25] Keith: and yeah that's
[00:16:32] Mike: so that's an interesting experience.
[00:16:32] Keith: Now, even when you presented a case similar to the one we just adjudicated,
[00:16:36] Mike: Yes. Yes. It just doesn't matter because because they aren't unable to, well, they just disagree. what what what was that What was the thing about Kirby Enthusiast you wanted to bring um
[00:16:46] Keith: Right. ah it Larry David has some topics that are just obviously hobby horses for him. So like one of them is the N-word. ah He explores that a ton in Curb.
[00:16:56] Mike: which Which N-word?
[00:16:58] Keith: ah The N-word.
[00:17:02] Mike: Naked? or Okay. right
[00:17:04] Keith: And so, yeah. And so he explores that. He says the word himself in at least two episodes that I can remember. And i'm only about halfway through. um
[00:17:12] Mike: Okay.
[00:17:12] Keith: Anyway, so he does that a lot. He has like an obsession with like handicapped and handicapped, ah the handicapped people. So there's a episode where he's at a coffee shop and,
[00:17:24] Keith: He has like a nice little exchange with a woman who's at the table next to him, and then they agree to meet, and then she backs up from the table in a wheelchair. She like wheels herself out, and he didn't know that she was in a wheelchair.
[00:17:36] Keith: um And then later in the episode, he explores... like She gets all this handicap privilege. like They go to a restaurant, and there's like a two-hour wait, but they're but with her, they're like, oh, ah we we can see she right away, ma'am.
[00:17:47] Mike: bri
[00:17:47] Keith: So anyway, he has he has various things that he like constantly revisits, and one of them is ah With his wife, he'll misread signals when they're in bed as her initiating.
[00:17:59] Keith: And she like reliably gets frustrated.
[00:17:59] Mike: Okay.
[00:18:02] Keith: She's like, no, Larry, that wasn't you know a signal. And so he explores he explores that a ton.
[00:18:07] Mike: Well, she has the strength of will to say no, Larry, but I think i actually think most women wouldn't. And so then most women would simply not seek comfort from a man because of this problem. like i What it made me think is like women probably feel pretty isolated when they are unhappy or whatever, want some consolation because they can't turn off their sex to get the what they want.
[00:18:33] Keith: Yeah.
[00:18:35] Mike: It's not it' as complicated.
[00:18:35] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I have, I mean, I've had numerous girlfriends who I'd be basically everyone I've ever dated really likes to like snuggle and cuddle. And for me, it's tough.
[00:18:48] Keith: Like I, I really like snuggling and cuddling after I've had an orgasm because then i don't have to like basically actively turn off my lizard brain constantly.
[00:18:53] Mike: Okay. Mm-hmm.
[00:19:00] Keith: um But if it's before we've had sex, like let's say we come back from dinner and like you know we want to watch a TV show or something before we go to bed and you know we're we're physically close to each other, it's like, <unk>s yeah, maybe I suck, but it's kind of annoying.
[00:19:16] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:17] Mike: Like if you could if you could negotiate it with a partner and be totally honest with each other, if she wanted just a snuggle or if she was feeling bad that day, you would say something like, look, in those situations, I would like to just quickly get an orgasm and then I'm totally all yours.
[00:19:23] Keith: yeah
[00:19:32] Mike: That's so actually i mean, to be honest, though like it's like, hey, you could get a two out of 10 consolation pat on the shoulder like I care. But if I if I blow a load, you're going to get like a nine out of 10.
[00:19:43] Mike: And like it's worth it to you because it's like, yeah, you know, you don't necessarily want semen all over the place while you feel this way.
[00:19:43] Keith: Right.
[00:19:48] Mike: But like it's actually worth it.
[00:19:48] Keith: Right.
[00:19:50] Mike: Like it's it's only 15 minutes or whatever. It's like a small price. to But like I think these are like i think these are negotiations. I think women are making a mistake by not engaging in negotiations like this with men.
[00:20:00] Mike: I think being more upfront about man's need to ejaculate would really benefit women in relationships.
[00:20:04] Keith: Yeah.
[00:20:06] Mike: I almost feel like it should be like a class in high school or something.
[00:20:10] Keith: Yeah, I think women can't imagine what a pressing need it is, like just how dominant it is in our brain patterns.
[00:20:14] Mike: Yes.
[00:20:17] Mike: Right. Yeah.
[00:20:20] Keith: It's, but look, i think the I think a really good solution to this problem is to have sex before you go out to dinner. I think women often feel bloated or drunk.
[00:20:31] Mike: Go on.
[00:20:34] Keith: ah Men too.
[00:20:34] Mike: Huh.
[00:20:34] Keith: But I think women care about that more. And yeah, he's probably like way more because you do get some like chemical bonding in the act of having sex.
[00:20:38] Mike: And the man's appreciative, right? He's like, this is great.
[00:20:43] Mike: Huh.
[00:20:46] Keith: So he's probably way more polite and respectful instead of just
[00:20:49] Mike: Would you shower after before both before and after this next?
[00:20:51] Keith: Yeah, I mean, you know, the exact details are a little complicated here.
[00:20:52] Mike: Like, how would you handle this?
[00:20:56] Mike: Well, you've done it before, right? have you Have you been able to negotiate this with a woman and like get her to agree?
[00:20:58] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have.
[00:21:01] Mike: And how did that go? like How did you bring it up?
[00:21:03] Keith: I think you would be tough to do before you're going out to like a fancy dinner or a show or like something with friends. But if you're just going to go to like, you know, the local dive um after, you can get away with not showering.
[00:21:16] Mike: Oh, I understand that. But I'm saying, how do you how do you the question I have is, do you when you've done this, do you are you explicit about it? you say, hey, I think we should try this. I think it's going to make our dinner more fun. Or do you just initiate? And she I'd like to know if she's if she's if she's game, if she's like, yeah, I want to try this, too.
[00:21:34] Mike: Or if she doesn't really see what you're doing.
[00:21:34] Keith: Yes. Yes. I've had multiple partners think that this is actually a good idea, and we've sort of worked and that worked into that pattern.
[00:21:40] Mike: OK.
[00:21:43] Mike: Have you had any that like were like, no, this is terrible, I hate it?
[00:21:46] Keith: Yeah. Some people really are... you know like Some animals are like nocturnal or whatever the thing in the day is, or diurnal, which is their active you know sunrise and sunset.
[00:21:55] Mike: Uh-huh.
[00:21:57] Keith: like Some people... really only like to have sex at some certain time. And trying to break them up that is like trying to turn a night person into a morning person.
[00:22:04] Mike: and Okay.
[00:22:07] Keith: like You can try, and maybe they can once or twice, but they're not they're going to revert back to old habits.
[00:22:12] Mike: And you're not this way. You're not this way. You are a omnivore of time of day.
[00:22:17] Keith: I think I would prefer to have sex in the mornings, but I'm i'm pretty omnivorous with what time I will have sex.
[00:22:23] Mike: Okay. I think that I, I think this notion of having sex before you go out to dinner is not common. You know it's funny because there's all these sexologists all over the place.
[00:22:35] Mike: I don't think I've ever encountered this before once. Have you, have you?
[00:22:37] Keith: we've we've reinvented the wheel here.
[00:22:39] Mike: No, I think it's a pretty it's it's a it's an idea that i don't think I think there would be a lot of people listening saying I would never even consider that.
[00:22:40] Keith: ah
[00:22:45] Mike: Because it's normally... You know what it is. I'll tell you what it is. It's that normally the sex is the thing the woman gives the guy as like a thank you for the for like paying for the dinner.
[00:22:57] Keith: Yeah.
[00:22:58] Mike: I mean that's that's i don't want to be like crass about... how the economic bargain of relationships. But I think that's basically right. It's like it's like a dessert. It's like, OK, you did this for me. Now I'm going to do this for you. And rotating that around.
[00:23:10] Mike: Maybe the woman has to give up some power or something, then she's having to say, oh, maybe you're going to take me to McDonald's now.
[00:23:13] Keith: Yeah, I wonder.
[00:23:17] Mike: And I like sucked your cock, you know.
[00:23:17] Keith: Yeah, that sort of Damocles is gone where she can deny the sex. um So maybe this doesn't work with people who are in a new relationship where they're where a woman's trying to wheedle out various benefits.
[00:23:22] Mike: Right, right.
[00:23:31] Mike: Right. And like decide how hard she's going to suck or how much moaning she's going to do based on like how good I think this is I think these are things that women think about sometimes, i you know, because it's not always they're just yeah, they're trying to like decide how much they're going to give you.
[00:23:37] Keith: What lingerie she's going to wear.
[00:23:49] Keith: yeah Yeah, I think you're right
[00:23:49] Mike: You know, it's not always a 10 out of 10. Sometimes they're like, I'll give a two out of 10 sex. Like, I'll just, you know, just lie here, like whatever.
[00:23:57] Keith: right.
[00:23:58] Mike: um Okay. So, so you generally have to be positive, positive experience. That's cool. That's like a good piece of information for people.
[00:24:04] Keith: yeah
[00:24:04] Mike: But okay. um
[00:24:06] Keith: Oh, there's one other benefit.
[00:24:08] Mike: Yeah.
[00:24:08] Keith: ah If you're in like an early dating scenario where like you don't always spend the nights at each other's houses, if you have sex earlier... then you can send them home or they can send you home.
[00:24:24] Keith: So that is another possible benefit.
[00:24:24] Mike: Right.
[00:24:26] Mike: Right. You don't have the kind of confusion about who's going to sleep where.
[00:24:31] Keith: Right.
[00:24:31] Mike: are we Are we sleeping? What are we doing in this room?
[00:24:33] Keith: Right. It's 1107 and we've just finished having sex and, you know, I don't really want to spend the night, but, you know, it's,
[00:24:41] Mike: And actually actually, that might be better for the woman also because I bet I know that women don't like It's not great to have like the guy ejaculates in you and leaves immediately.
[00:24:53] Keith: Right.
[00:24:54] Mike: Like it sort of feels like, oh, I'm just a come dump.
[00:24:57] Keith: Right.
[00:24:58] Mike: Whereas it's like if you do that and then and then also, you know, women, well, it's actually men. Men fetishize the idea of like their semen coming out of the woman's vagina. you know, throughout the day. So like the guy could, if, if his if that's his fetish, she could imagine it while they're out to dinner.
[00:25:11] Mike: Like, Oh, she's, she's, she's feeling my calm.
[00:25:11] Keith: Yeah.
[00:25:13] Mike: Although I don't think women fetishize that. It's a thing though. It's a thing that they might have. Okay.
[00:25:19] Keith: Yeah.
[00:25:19] Mike: I even, i have one other thing.
[00:25:20] Keith: Okay.
[00:25:21] Mike: um Okay. Can you, okay. Without any preparation here, Keith, can you make the porn hub drum sound? Okay.
[00:25:31] Keith: No. you know and and i know like of what you speak, it's it's something like you know the Netflix.
[00:25:33] Mike: Okay.
[00:25:39] Keith: I think Netflix has like a little drum sound.
[00:25:39] Mike: Alright.
[00:25:41] Keith: It's like, dun-dun.
[00:25:41] Mike: So, so here i'm going to going make a sound.
[00:25:42] Keith: And Hulu has a thing, and Max has a thing.
[00:25:44] Mike: I'm going to make the sound.
[00:25:45] Keith: Okay.
[00:25:45] Mike: See how close you think I am to it.
[00:25:47] Keith: Okay.
[00:25:47] Mike: I'm going move away from the mic here. Do do do do do. did Okay, do you recognize that?
[00:25:51] Keith: Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I do.
[00:25:54] Mike: So apparently, ah so I've i've sort of known this for a while. So.
[00:25:57] Keith: if i If I heard that in the blind, I'm not sure I would recognize it as Pornhub. I'd be like, oh, where do I know that from?
[00:26:02] Mike: Okay, so this is there is a thing. This is a thing. and It's been around for a while and I should have put it up years ago on the podcast, but There is a thing where middle school and high school kids, if they're doing a performance during school, we'll throw this in and you can find hundreds.
[00:26:17] Mike: They're great videos because basically it'll be you imagine people can imagine their minds. I like um ah like ah the the the the school band, the marching band or you know people are playing music and the drummer will throw this into the middle or play it and the crowd goes fucking wild.
[00:26:26] Keith: Yeah.
[00:26:33] Keith: Wow.
[00:26:34] Mike: And what I've learned ah is, and I've been testing this out. It's like I was testing out. I don't know if i told you this on the podcast, but I was testing out earlier, um giving the Nazi salute to people driving Teslas.
[00:26:47] Mike: ah it Being in the Bay Area where there's a lot of progressive people, it really shames them. I mostly do it to women, and it's very fun.
[00:26:54] Mike: In public, if you make the Pornhub sound, people turn around.
[00:26:59] Keith: wow
[00:27:00] Mike: And ah yeah, and it's just sort of an entertaining thing. And it's a thing that you can do ah um that sort of like gets this point across only to people that are consuming porn, which is going to be mostly men.
[00:27:12] Mike: Right. Although I think more and more young women are very familiar with the sound too. I'm not sure if from consuming porn themselves are being shown it by young men.
[00:27:21] Keith: Or maybe it's a meme enough now that it's...
[00:27:23] Mike: Could be, could be. So you've not encountered this meme anywhere. You're not sure if you would even recognize it. The Pornhub sound.
[00:27:30] Keith: I've been trying to pull it up here, but I haven't found it. Yeah, I don't know. I don't... I must! i'm I'm sure I would, right?
[00:27:42] Mike: Did
[00:27:44] Keith: There it is.
[00:27:45] Mike: you hear that?
[00:27:46] Keith: I did hear that.
[00:27:47] Mike: Yeah.
[00:27:48] Keith: Yeah. ah
[00:27:49] Mike: yeah
[00:27:49] Keith: Okay. Yeah, i definitely know that. Yes.
[00:27:51] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, and and and I just want one other thing I want to point out is, you know, there aren't. So, I mean, first of all, there's a joke you could make, which you is it would be funny if the Pornhub theme was, you know, you are watching porn now or something like that instead of ah the drumbeat. But obviously they picked something that was they picked something ambiguous, but they knew what they were doing a little bit that created a brand. And like in terms of branding, know,
[00:28:16] Mike: People talk about this like their sounds. They're like little, you know, the NBC Peacock.
[00:28:21] Keith: Yeah. do do do
[00:28:22] Mike: um Exactly. This sound, in terms of brand recognition, i bet is in the top like 20 worldwide.
[00:28:29] Keith: Yeah.
[00:28:30] Mike: And I know nobody talks about it. And i just think it's sort of an interesting thing that like these guys have produced. I'm not sure if it's a useful sound or a good one. Monetizable. I don't know. But these these fuckers have produced a sound that is like really well known.
[00:28:39] Keith: Yeah.
[00:28:44] Keith: yeah It's Pavlovian for billions of Americans or billions of people.
[00:28:47] Mike: Yeah, I just think people, I think it's worth marveling at that a little bit.
[00:28:48] Keith: Yeah.
[00:28:50] Mike: I mean, like, that that they've, it's a clever insight. Whoever came up with it, I don't know who played the drum bit and the bass part there, but it's just kind of a cool thing that they've invented.
[00:28:58] Keith: Yeah.
[00:28:59] Mike: And, yeah.
[00:29:01] Keith: Yeah. Of like all the sounds that have been heard by humans over the course of history. Yeah. It's, you I'm going to be top 100 or whatever.
[00:29:09] Mike: So you could, for example, if you want to try setting your, when you get um an SMS on your phone, making that be your sound, there are various things you could do.
[00:29:15] Keith: And watch the reaction of people around me.
[00:29:18] Mike: Yes, to amuse yourself. Anyway, just wanted to bring that up. That's it.
[00:29:21] Keith: Yeah. Okay. Huh. Yeah, okay. i I wonder if I'll notice it more now that you've mentioned it.
[00:29:29] Mike: It's definitely i mean, I see it in videos that it's it's a it's a very funny thing that like like a very good prank for a kid to play very funny and obviously could get you in a lot of trouble if the adults present notice it.
[00:29:32] Keith: Right.
[00:29:40] Keith: Yeah.
[00:29:43] Keith: Yeah. All right, let's move on. So are you aware of this new live action Snow White movie that Disney released or is releasing on Friday, I think?
[00:29:53] Mike: This is the one where it's a girl boss, right?
[00:29:58] Keith: um
[00:29:59] Mike: like snow It's basically not, it doesn't have any of the, like this is what I've heard, frankly, on unlike ah conservative media, is that like it doesn't resemble really the actual story of Snow White.
[00:30:10] Mike: ah She's basically a terrible person to the seven dwarves, orders them around, just girlbosses everybody.
[00:30:17] Keith: oh
[00:30:17] Mike: Sort of like um a Marvel movie, but a fairytale version.
[00:30:21] Keith: Yeah, it may be.
[00:30:21] Mike: Is that right?
[00:30:22] Keith: ah Look, all I know is that the review... Yeah, right. So it's releasing tomorrow.
[00:30:28] Mike: Okay.
[00:30:29] Keith: Today is March 20th. And... um
[00:30:35] Keith: Well, I mean, the movie has a ah couple problems. First, the ah what what is the Evil Queen called? Is it Maleficent? Is that the Snow White one?
[00:30:44] Mike: I don't like Disney, so I have no idea.
[00:30:47] Keith: But you know she's the one who's you know who's the fairest of them all. She's obsessed with being the hottest.
[00:30:53] Mike: Okay, so yes, Snow White is the one with the the the queen or witch or whatever that says that into a mirror.
[00:30:53] Keith: um
[00:30:56] Keith: Yeah.
[00:30:58] Mike: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
[00:30:58] Keith: Right. and And so the the person who plays that, ah the evil queen, is Gal Gadot. Do you know who she is?
[00:31:08] Mike: I do. She was um Wonder Woman.
[00:31:10] Keith: Right.
[00:31:12] Mike: Yeah.
[00:31:12] Keith: And she's like exceptionally attractive.
[00:31:15] Mike: I mean, if you like, ah if you like, I'm not, I'm not that attracted to her, but I get it.
[00:31:15] Keith: And so...
[00:31:20] Mike: It's not my type.
[00:31:21] Keith: Whoa, what do you not like about Gal Gadot?
[00:31:24] Mike: I'm probably, I'm not sure, but probably your eyes aren't far enough apart. You know that I, you know who I like is, I like, um what's her name? The girl from the big love, which I think isn't pronounced Seyfried.
[00:31:30] Keith: ah Amanda Seyfried? Oh.
[00:31:33] Mike: Actually, I've heard it on the radio a bit, but yes, that's who I like.
[00:31:36] Keith: I saw some content of her ah playing a weird instrument on a talk show. I meant to send it to you. and I don't know if you could jerk off to it or not.
[00:31:42] Mike: I saw it.
[00:31:43] Keith: Okay, yeah.
[00:31:44] Mike: I saw it. No, I couldn't.
[00:31:44] Keith: It's trying to break Taylor Swift's news to you.
[00:31:45] Mike: I couldn't because it's not, I couldn't.
[00:31:46] Keith: It's not really possible.
[00:31:49] Mike: I mean, look, yeah, I mean, she was much more, you know what she's, where she's really compelling is in the movie about Elizabeth Holmes, ah the Theranos movie.
[00:31:58] Keith: ah
[00:31:58] Mike: Yeah.
[00:31:59] Keith: huh
[00:32:00] Mike: Yeah. She's really, she does.
[00:32:00] Keith: does does she play Does she play Elizabeth Holmes?
[00:32:03] Mike: And it's pretty compelling.
[00:32:04] Keith: Huh.
[00:32:05] Mike: Yes. I like that.
[00:32:07] Keith: I wonder if that's why...
[00:32:07] Mike: Yeah.
[00:32:08] Keith: Well, yeah, I really don't like ah Elizabeth Holmes. I don't find her attractive, but I wonder if I saw that movie, if that would like plant some seed. Anyway, all right. So Gal Gadot is substantially hotter, in my opinion, than the actress that they picked to play Snow White, which is sort of like a problematic premise, right?
[00:32:22] Mike: Oh, interesting. Okay.
[00:32:24] Keith: Like... It's just hard to believe that that you know the the mirror is ever be like, look, you're obviously hotter. But all right, setting that aside,
[00:32:33] Mike: Well, i assume they put her in makeup or something to make her ugly, right? i mean, there's...
[00:32:36] Keith: I'm not sure. I haven't seen it.
[00:32:37] Mike: Okay.
[00:32:38] Keith: Oh, and ah the reviews are in. It has a 46% on Rotten Tomatoes, which is like, I think one of the lowest of the live action movies that Disney's released of late.
[00:32:47] Mike: Okay. okay
[00:32:48] Keith: um and But I saw a thing on Reddit yesterday, which was a tweet.
[00:32:55] Mike: Okay. Mm-hmm.
[00:32:57] Keith: And ah somebody said, this is why Disney is about to lose 300 million. Presumably that's how much it costs them to make and market the movie. And it's ah it's a picture of the actress who plays Snow White.
[00:33:08] Keith: And ah she's wearing a backless dress, I believe, although it's cropped so you can't see the dress. And she's turning around, looking over her shoulder. And the picture of her from the back.
[00:33:18] Keith: And if you zoom in, you can see that she has um some sort of dark ah hair or peach fuzz or whatever you call it going along her spine.
[00:33:31] Keith: And this cascaded, um you know, the usual set of comments on on Reddit. One person said, you should see me see my ass, which I thought was kind of funny. um And then somebody says, for anyone not getting it, she has back hair. Took me a while too.
[00:33:46] Keith: um
[00:33:47] Mike: Okay.
[00:33:48] Keith: Now, when I saw it, it didn't I noticed it immediately. I was like, oh, wow. That's actually sort of interesting how much back hair she has. um And then another person said, or finally seeing a picture of a woman that hasn't been airbrushed.
[00:34:04] Keith: As if to like shame the people noticing that she has back hair.
[00:34:04] Mike: yeah
[00:34:08] Keith: um Now look, like this guy saying this is why Disney is about to lose $300 million is a little bit misogynist.
[00:34:08] Mike: and
[00:34:13] Keith: And look, there are women. And this woman is of darker complexion. And you know often women like that do have, I don't know the actress's name.
[00:34:19] Mike: What's her name?
[00:34:21] Mike: Oh, okay.
[00:34:22] Keith: ah Snow White actress name. Her name is Rachel Zegler. Um, if people want to look her up, they can do so.
[00:34:29] Mike: Okay.
[00:34:34] Keith: I just, okay. I am extremely sensitive to body hair. I really don't like it. And I know that's like an unrealistic expectation and and it's annoying that men expect women to shave or wax everything. And, you know, it's the patriarchy that's caused this. Okay. Maybe all those things are true.
[00:34:52] Keith: Um,
[00:34:52] Mike: You think that's true? You think if there were no men that women still wouldn't do things like that? I think they would.
[00:34:57] Keith: I don't know. I was just trying to quickly a steel man.
[00:34:59] Mike: i I disagree that. Oh, here I found a picture of her topless. Anyway, go on.
[00:35:04] Keith: Is it real or is it AI generated? You
[00:35:06] Mike: Can't tell. Probably fake. It's good enough, though.
[00:35:09] Keith: you can send it over anyway. I'll i'll help you determine.
[00:35:12] Mike: It's fake.
[00:35:14] Keith: um I just look.
[00:35:20] Keith: I have seen a lot of women naked and this would definitely be like in my experience, 95th plus percentile body hair.
[00:35:23] Mike: Hmm.
[00:35:29] Keith: Like this is a little bit unusual.
[00:35:31] Mike: So you would what would that cause you to do? I mean, if by the time you saw this back hair, you would probably be having sex with her doggy style, right?
[00:35:39] Keith: Yeah.
[00:35:40] Mike: ah Would that would you reject her then?
[00:35:46] Keith: It's hard to reject somebody once they're naked in your bed.
[00:35:49] Mike: Hmm. Okay.
[00:35:50] Keith: um i have done it, um but only a few times. Um...
[00:35:57] Mike: Wait, I mean, can you give us an idea of what generally would be the reason or flowchart of when you do that?
[00:36:05] Keith: um
[00:36:06] Mike: you don't Maybe you don't want to.
[00:36:08] Keith: Yeah, I'm just deciding whether I can give a specific example here.
[00:36:11] Mike: That's fine.
[00:36:13] Keith: I can definitely speak in generalities. Usually what will happen is the clothes will come off and I will hit some sort of regret speed bump.
[00:36:15] Mike: Okay, I see that here.
[00:36:26] Keith: And it could be because of something ah quote unquote wrong with their body or something that I you know and you know don't like.
[00:36:26] Mike: Hmm.
[00:36:29] Mike: back here.
[00:36:34] Keith: But it might just be that I'm like, oh man, like, I'm kind of drunk. I really don't like to see. Maybe I don't want to see this person again. like i I'm just not going to do this. um But.
[00:36:48] Mike: I think this hair is fine. I don't think this would bother me, and I'll tell you why.
[00:36:51] Keith: Jeez.
[00:36:52] Mike: ah People can find the picture.
[00:36:53] Keith: Really? Yeah.
[00:36:54] Mike: ah theres There's a site called Bored Panda that has the picture on it. um The reason why is because there are two different kinds of hair.
[00:37:02] Keith: Yes.
[00:37:02] Mike: Like I'm sure there's like 20 different kinds of hair, but but there's the kind that say you have on your arms that's like very thin and light and it's kind of like peach fuzz kind of deal. And yeah, it can be longer and darker colored.
[00:37:16] Keith: week
[00:37:16] Mike: And then there's the kind of hair you have on your genitals, your hair, and like leg hair can be like that too.
[00:37:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:37:22] Mike: It can be kind of this coarser, this coarser, more of aggressive hair.
[00:37:22] Keith: Kind of puby. Yeah. Thicker follicles.
[00:37:27] Mike: This is definitely the former kind of hair. And so I think it it fits into the more like
[00:37:29] Keith: It is.
[00:37:32] Mike: I don't know, just a body variation kind of cute thing. If she had, okay, and okay let me, for furthermore, a man's back hair, i don't have any back hair, but I'm given to understand that men's back hair tends to be more like more like men's chest hair, which is more like pubes.
[00:37:47] Keith: A little wiry.
[00:37:47] Mike: Okay.
[00:37:48] Keith: Yeah.
[00:37:48] Mike: Yeah. So if it were like that, yeah, I mean, that's pretty masculine. It's not very feminine, but this is like, and I don't think like peach fuzz kind of stuff is pretty, it's just like, do you, would you want a woman to wax her arms, shave her arms?
[00:38:00] Keith: Okay. I've dated several people who do wax or shave their arms.
[00:38:04] Mike: Okay, I just did did you like that? Yes. Like, yeah.
[00:38:09] Keith: Look, man, I don't like that I'm like this, okay? Like, I...
[00:38:14] Mike: Oh,
[00:38:15] Keith: i
[00:38:15] Mike: Okay, but how about like, I mean, to some extent, so I looked at the picture and she has kind of black, ah straight, maybe maybe Hispanic or Asian hair. I'm not sure what her ethnicity is, but kind of that goes down.
[00:38:27] Mike: And this hair kind of almost continues. So the point is that you can have hair that's on a woman's neck or might a man's neck that's kind of like almost a shadow of their regular hair that's that's kind of thin and stuff like that.
[00:38:38] Mike: Does that bother you if it's just like right near their head?
[00:38:39] Keith: on On their neck, or you mean like along their sideburn Yeah.
[00:38:43] Mike: Either one, either one, like where it's but it's very like kind of fine and it kind of contextual to their their head hair. And I feel like this back hair, it's a little weird, but it's still contextual to head hair. It's like a shadow coming down and it's very fine and downy.
[00:38:54] Keith: yeah
[00:38:56] Mike: I think it's kind of ah it's not attractive, but it's not unattractive. It's like, oh, OK, it's sort of contextual.
[00:39:02] Keith: I find it actively unattractive. This is an interesting conversation to me.
[00:39:05] Mike: Oh, OK.
[00:39:05] Keith: Okay, let me explore around the edges around here. um Have you been with somebody who has like a stray chest hair growing near their nipple?
[00:39:17] Keith: This is something that happens to women quite often. And normally they pluck it before you might notice it, but occasionally they'll miss it.
[00:39:22] Mike: I think the answer to that question is no, but but he's probably i mean it's probably yes, but not in a way that like it was ah what I think you're thinking of.
[00:39:24] Keith: Whoa.
[00:39:29] Mike: It would have to have been very light. and it would so no So I think the answer is no.
[00:39:33] Keith: I mean, it happens pretty often. I've had many partners that, you know, have occasionally have this stray. You know, it's says I think it's...
[00:39:40] Mike: How would you even know? Because by the time it grew to any length, they would just pluck it out. I mean, I have hairs like that that I pluck out.
[00:39:45] Keith: I think sometimes, yeah, sometimes they just don't notice.
[00:39:49] Mike: Okay.
[00:39:49] Keith: if you if If you're with somebody long enough or if you're with enough people, ah you're you're bored to hit or you're bound to hit ah you know a place in the function where they they happen to miss it.
[00:39:54] Mike: Okay.
[00:39:56] Mike: Okay.
[00:39:58] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, that wouldn't, but that would be, that would definitely be more of the male chest hair kind of hair, right?
[00:40:00] Keith: Yeah, I find it,
[00:40:04] Mike: It wouldn't be a downy.
[00:40:05] Keith: yeah
[00:40:06] Mike: Okay, but go on. Yeah.
[00:40:07] Keith: I just wanted to say, like I totally understand that that happens and it's not a sign of like masculinity or anything, but yeah, like when it happens, I really don't like it. And I know that's unfair of me. And like they just pluck it and like it goes away and I try to put it out of my mind.
[00:40:20] Mike: What if a woman has a mole and it has like a little bit of hair coming out of it? it Do you, do you want her?
[00:40:24] Keith: I don't like that.
[00:40:26] Mike: God, what do you want her to do?
[00:40:26] Keith: Yeah. um
[00:40:27] Mike: Have the mole surgically removed, remove the hair?
[00:40:32] Keith: What do I want her to do?
[00:40:34] Mike: See, to me, the draw, the divide, I mean, I can, you yeah.
[00:40:35] Keith: want Here's what I want. I want to not care, ah but I do.
[00:40:37] Mike: yeah
[00:40:39] Keith: And i know it's like an unfair, I don't know if unfair is the right word. It's it's like a almost unreasonable standard to hold people to. But I think like reasonable body grooming would involve, you know, shaving your your arms and pits and...
[00:40:55] Mike: Your arms?
[00:40:55] Keith: ah if If you have, a sorry, shaving your legs legs and pits.
[00:40:57] Mike: Your legs. Uh-huh.
[00:40:59] Keith: um And if you're a woman that has like darker arm hair, you can do whatever you want. But ah for me, like I don't love dark arm hair. um it's ah It's actually one way. i think I'm a little bit preternatural at noticing when people have eating disorders.
[00:41:17] Keith: And I think one of the things, just as I am at noticing people who have been born prematurely and
[00:41:22] Mike: Go on. how do How do you do that one? Just so that people know. I know it, but go ahead.
[00:41:26] Keith: Oh, yeah. Normally their hairline is a little bit higher than somebody who's been full term.
[00:41:31] Mike: Yes. Yes. You ah alerted me to that and ever like and it's actually kind of a shitty thing to be alerted to because then every time you see a woman with kind of a high hairline, you think that.
[00:41:38] Keith: Yeah, you wonder...
[00:41:41] Keith: yeah Yeah, the real trick is figuring out subtle, cunning ways to ask without actually asking it.
[00:41:42] Mike: Yes.
[00:41:47] Mike: That's good.
[00:41:47] Keith: um You can be like, oh, one of my siblings was born a little bit prematurely, and then people will normally offer it up. Look, I'm coming off as a real monster over the last 10 minutes here.
[00:41:55] Mike: Wow. And this is hang on. it This is not because this is not because like it matters.
[00:41:58] Keith: But...
[00:42:00] Mike: You just want to just like prove that your dominance or something. You just want to show that you know this thing.
[00:42:03] Keith: No, I don't care. i actually don't care if people are born prematurely or not. I don't like high hairlines. And so that's how I like and initially noticed the pattern. um And then, well, yeah, but that's getting old, man.
[00:42:13] Mike: I mean, you kind of have a high hairline.
[00:42:17] Keith: It wasn't always this way.
[00:42:17] Mike: ah Okay, fine. Okay, okay.
[00:42:19] Keith: ah
[00:42:20] Mike: So you naturally have a normal hairline. That's fair. um
[00:42:23] Keith: Yeah.
[00:42:24] Mike: Some people, as they get older, some people, and as they get older, men, as they get older, don't have receding hairlines.
[00:42:24] Keith: um Yeah, this this trick wouldn't work on on people in their forty s and 50s.
[00:42:32] Keith: All right, Mike.
[00:42:33] Mike: Yeah.
[00:42:33] Keith: Yeah, I wish our our viewers could see your your luscious locks.
[00:42:36] Mike: It's true. My 85-year-old uncle also does not have a receding hairline, so i'm I'm in good shape.
[00:42:37] Keith: i feel like
[00:42:41] Keith: yeah i feel like for a 44-year-old, have like 93rd percentile hair.
[00:42:44] Mike: yeah pretty It's pretty good, yeah
[00:42:47] Keith: But yeah, for however old you are, ah you have, yeah.
[00:42:51] Mike: I'm like 100th percentile. Yeah.
[00:42:52] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. like I don't know anybody your age who has hair as good as yours.
[00:42:53] Mike: I haven't. I have. Yeah, I don't think I've lost even like a a hair like ah the thickness is even the same. OK, so you.
[00:43:00] Keith: Yeah, this bro fest is over. ah Let's get back to but this hair thing.
[00:43:02] Mike: I think I think that the key. OK, I think that the key for me, the key dividing thing is masculinity, femininity and hair is not.
[00:43:09] Keith: Yeah.
[00:43:12] Mike: It's the coarse hair that is, I mean, i don't, yeah look, actually coarse hair is feminine, like in the sense that women have coarse hair, like pubic hair and armpit hair.
[00:43:20] Keith: Yeah.
[00:43:22] Mike: But in our culture, it, yeah, it makes the person appear less feminine, which is why women typically ah groom, as you call it. But arm hair, that like sort of peach fuzzy kind of hair, I don't see as being gendered in my world.
[00:43:35] Keith: well A lot of women have a lot of peach fuzz under there you know on on their upper lip, and a lot of women wax that. Do you think they should?
[00:43:47] Keith: like How do you feel about... you know and then like ah Sometimes it's a little thicker near the corners of their mouth. you feel about that?
[00:43:54] Mike: I think it's very situational. I think it's very situational.
[00:43:56] Keith: Okay.
[00:43:57] Mike: I like
[00:43:58] Keith: I feel like you're pretty tolerant of this, and I know I'm maximally intolerant.
[00:43:58] Mike: it Yeah.
[00:44:05] Keith: Um, and I wish I weren't, but, um, I'm, I'm just saying what I like.
[00:44:10] Mike: Well, I think, okay yeah, I actively don't like the idea of a woman shaving her arms. I actively don't like it because it's um it's so aggressive. Like it's like you know what it's like to me.
[00:44:20] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:22] Mike: It's like a woman who wears, you know, a foundation mask on her face of makeup every day, which, by the way, in Friends, Jennifer Aniston obviously is doing.
[00:44:28] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:31] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:31] Mike: Actually, probably all but look on TV, probably everyone does. But I just always notice that her face like has no like texture to it at all.
[00:44:37] Keith: Right, right.
[00:44:38] Mike: um And I don't, I actively dislike that because it's, it's too much. It's like, what do you, what's going on here?
[00:44:43] Keith: Yeah.
[00:44:44] Mike: Like what, like what, how, how, how, how much effort are you putting into this? um But, but I can understand with the coarser hair, know, Yeah, like, and you know, and there are things like if a woman wants, you know, a woman doesn't want to like, well, there's like, yeah if a woman where it puts on her but swimsuit and her pubic hair is sticking out, that's not, you know, she doesn't want to do that.
[00:45:05] Mike: It's embarrassing.
[00:45:05] Keith: Right.
[00:45:06] Mike: So I understand like there's like a lot of grooming things that like are just viewed as feminine, you know.
[00:45:11] Keith: yeah but Speaking of yeah like bikini lines, i mean there's vast differences in where people's pubic hair begins to grow. like Some women have it like on their upper thighs and other women you know have almost a natural you know small landing strip.
[00:45:23] Mike: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:31] Keith: That's a bit of hyperbole, but it's not much.
[00:45:34] Mike: I mean, the only thing, the only caveat I would say to that is there are laser treatments.
[00:45:34] Keith: um
[00:45:37] Mike: So you never know. Maybe the woman had a laser treatment.
[00:45:38] Keith: Of course.
[00:45:39] Mike: And so you think it's natural, but it's not.
[00:45:41] Keith: Yeah.
[00:45:42] Mike: My guess would be that a lot of the times you see something like that, it's fake. Like, i yeah, if you're suspicious with a woman ah with a physical attribute, it's usually because it's fake.
[00:45:53] Keith: Yeah, maybe.
[00:45:55] Mike: Yeah.
[00:45:55] Keith: Thinking of someone in particular, and I know she did not have any laser treatment.
[00:45:57] Mike: Yeah. Well, women have yeah've heard of women of Asian descent having less hair or pubic hair generally. I've heard that as a ah rumor, but I don't really know how to address it.
[00:46:07] Keith: Uh...
[00:46:08] Mike: I personally have very little body hair, ah so a woman could therefore be jealous of me. So i like I shouldn't say it that way. I know by personal experience, i know I know from personal experience that one can have very limited body hair because I, although I'm Caucasian, man, I, yeah, like I just don't have very much.
[00:46:19] Keith: Confined to your head.
[00:46:28] Keith: Yeah.
[00:46:31] Keith: Yeah.
[00:46:31] Mike: That's interesting. I mean, you, have you ah impelled in any way women to like, say, start shaving their arms?
[00:46:37] Keith: No.
[00:46:37] Mike: Are you like part of the patriarchy?
[00:46:37] Keith: No. No. i
[00:46:40] Mike: You just dump them.
[00:46:40] Keith: It's definitely something that you could never mention. because ah Because I'm the problem, right? I think if I dated somebody... who didn't shave their legs.
[00:46:51] Keith: I think eventually i would say something like, look, do whatever you will want, but the but i would i for me, this is a little bit of a bummer.
[00:46:54] Mike: How does this... that is this
[00:46:59] Keith: Can you explain to me what's going on here?
[00:47:02] Mike: you You and I both agree with the sort of, I think, Sam Harris concept that people should tell the truth when they can. How does this interact with that? I mean, because if a woman says to you, what do you prefer? That's a problem.
[00:47:13] Mike: If you're just talking about a model an actress like this woman in Snow White with a female partner, well, now what do you do?
[00:47:20] Keith: I wouldn't risk that that topic, but yeah.
[00:47:21] Mike: Because... So you have to hide from top. So that is a form of dishonesty, right? You have to hide from topic.
[00:47:26] Keith: Now, generally, ah generally, Almost every woman that I've dated doesn't like it when I talk about other women. And I think it's because i am acutely aware of what I like and don't like.
[00:47:38] Keith: And i I say things that immediately make them wonder if I think that about them.
[00:47:38] Mike: Hmm.
[00:47:43] Keith: And like, yeah, like I can be almost surgical with my precision of critiques of celebrities.
[00:47:44] Mike: Hmm.
[00:47:50] Keith: And it's hard to imagine for them that I'm not doing the same for them, probably because I am.
[00:47:50] Mike: Hmm.
[00:47:54] Mike: I mean, can you give an example of your surgical precision? Like, is there and a celebrity? let' Let's see. Is there someone we all, ah is there someone that everyone knows? and you could say, oh, here, bam, ba bam, bam.
[00:48:05] Mike: Like a man Amanda, actually Amanda Seyfried, someone that I find attractive.
[00:48:05] Keith: ah
[00:48:08] Mike: Like, can you just bam, bam, bam your surgical critique of her?
[00:48:10] Keith: I think I pointed out to you that her eyes are too far apart and you've like onboarded that, but ah let me do somebody.
[00:48:16] Mike: it's true. I just like it.
[00:48:20] Mike: Uh-huh.
[00:48:20] Keith: um i was watching white Lotus. um ah And in season three, there's this character who is, she plays a Hollywood actress, but she's in her forties and she's, uh,
[00:48:33] Mike: her name or the character's name or anything.
[00:48:36] Keith: Yeah, trying to find it.
[00:48:36] Mike: Not sure.
[00:48:38] Keith: um
[00:48:40] Mike: I get a list of the characters here. Saxon, Rick, Lachlan, Timmy, these are all men.
[00:48:44] Keith: Yeah, I'm not great with names.
[00:48:45] Mike: Gatlock, is that his name?
[00:48:48] Keith: mean, might be.
[00:48:50] Mike: pat Saxon is apparently Patrick s Schwarzenegger. That's not...
[00:48:52] Keith: It is, it's it's Arnold's son.
[00:48:54] Mike: But that's not the son with the ah maid. It's not, I know, because he doesn't look Hispanic.
[00:48:58] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's really brutal.
[00:48:59] Mike: ah Actually, he doesn't really look like Arnold. doesn't really look like Arnold, so it makes me wonder if ah he's the dad. um He looks a little like him. OK, I found the actors, but it's going be a woman.
[00:49:12] Keith: not
[00:49:14] Mike: ah Natasha Rothwell, Carrie Coon.
[00:49:14] Keith: maybe i it is It's Michelle Monaghan.
[00:49:18] Mike: OK, Michelle Monaghan, great.
[00:49:19] Keith: Okay. and okay So she's four years older than me. So she's 48 years old. ah She plays like ah an actress in her mid-40s on the show.
[00:49:24] Mike: All right.
[00:49:28] Keith: And in one of the episodes, um so in all the episodes, she's she's from LA and like her character is supposed to be sort of tone deaf and really privileged.
[00:49:33] Mike: Hmm.
[00:49:38] Keith: And she always has her makeup sort of done to the nines. And then there's an episode where she goes out to a party and um they're in Thailand. So she's sort of perspiring and she's not wearing her normal ah makeup, which is probably like what um You were complaining about Jennifer Aniston in Friends.
[00:49:57] Keith: like Her normal setup for the rest of the of the show is that she's got this like big you know ah face of foundation on.
[00:49:58] Mike: ah Okay. Lots of foundation.
[00:50:06] Keith: yeah
[00:50:06] Mike: Yeah.
[00:50:07] Keith: ah But in this one... and
[00:50:11] Keith: Yeah, i just noticed the texture of her skin made her look substantially older than she does in the other scenes.
[00:50:19] Mike: Okay.
[00:50:19] Keith: And um I suppressed saying that, ah yeah, I wanted to point this out to someone, um but I avoided it because, yeah, it like, I don't think women want to hear me
[00:50:39] Keith: you know pointing out but sort of unfair ah foibles in Hollywood actresses. like that's not
[00:50:48] Mike: Hmm.
[00:50:48] Keith: you know Most women don't have enough security to sort of not onboard that is a as a possible insecurity in themselves.
[00:50:55] Mike: But maybe it's fair to say that like for you to have a successful if you valued honesty. It would be challenging for you to find somebody that you could be totally honest with because of this topic.
[00:51:06] Mike: It's actually a really important topic with a female partner, right?
[00:51:09] Keith: Yeah.
[00:51:09] Mike: Because you can't be like I can be fully honest and say that like that forget her name her hair on her back doesn't bother me. I'm being honest. It doesn't. I'm like, OK, OK.
[00:51:18] Keith: Yeah.
[00:51:18] Mike: um But ah but you would need a woman who is unusually either very hairless and without skin that ages or somebody that was unusually just like, OK, whatever.
[00:51:28] Keith: Right.
[00:51:30] Mike: I don't care.
[00:51:31] Keith: Yeah.
[00:51:32] Mike: Which was I'm sure it exists, but it's uncommon.
[00:51:34] Keith: Okay. I don't know. i I really like talking about people's relative attractiveness. And it's and it's not just women.
[00:51:40] Mike: Sure. On.
[00:51:41] Keith: like i like talking about male attractiveness too. like When I'm walking around and I see someone who's good looking, I like saying, like oh, wow, that person's good looking, and then discussing why. like it's
[00:51:50] Mike: yeah I never do that with men ever. Not once ever. But go on.
[00:51:53] Keith: Really? Have we never done that?
[00:51:55] Mike: I'm just I'm just a gay shaming you.
[00:51:55] Keith: like we're We're both... Okay. I see. I see. Yeah, It even went over my head.
[00:52:00] Mike: No, I've done it. Some it's not so good at it.
[00:52:01] Keith: Like, yeah, like I'm i'm so slammed to the right of the ah ah a heterosexual graph that I'm like unprosecutable on that.
[00:52:04] Mike: Sure, I understand.
[00:52:07] Mike: Yeah.
[00:52:10] Keith: But ah in any case, um it's...
[00:52:11] Mike: Yeah.
[00:52:14] Mike: I have trouble seeing it with men. It's harder for me, although it is interesting. Like, for example, if you a great example is if you're watching The Bachelorette.
[00:52:20] Keith: I was just going to say, like I love the first episode of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette and just letting loose with like, you know and like it you know I'm not saying I'm better than these people.
[00:52:21] Mike: Yeah.
[00:52:24] Mike: Sure.
[00:52:30] Keith: It's just fun for me to gossip about who's the best looking and to like find tiny nits and complain about it. and I don't know why i like that, but I do.
[00:52:40] Mike: Right.
[00:52:42] Keith: Yeah.
[00:52:42] Mike: But there's a natural thing that your female partner might think, oh, he applies the same logic to me, which you do.
[00:52:48] Keith: yeah
[00:52:49] Mike: And so then that's difficult.
[00:52:50] Keith: I think, I mean, I don't typically date people that I'm not fiercely attracted to. So i i I generally have a pretty good defense, which is like, look, ah to my taste, like you know you're you're a 10.
[00:52:58] Mike: Mm hmm.
[00:53:05] Keith: And that is generally not a lie. but... and
[00:53:11] Mike: Well, but hang on a sec.
[00:53:12] Keith: but
[00:53:13] Mike: Unless, yeah i mean, there's an age component.
[00:53:13] Keith: But then people worry that like something about them may be... yes Yeah, people worry that that there may be something mutable. And on the show and and in normal life, i ah I often spend a lot of time talking about how yeah age, father time comes for all people, but especially women.
[00:53:20] Mike: Right.
[00:53:31] Keith: And that's it's not fair. But yeah, I think women don't like being slapped with that constantly.
[00:53:34] Mike: Right.
[00:53:37] Keith: And so I have to i to temper it a bit.
[00:53:37] Mike: Sure. i mean, nobody does.
[00:53:40] Keith: And it's not that I'm actively lying. It's that
[00:53:43] Mike: I think it is a little bit.
[00:53:44] Keith: I think I would. Well, I don't think. I mean, I am comfortable saying like, look, like I don't really want to talk about this because i think you're going to end up feeling badly.
[00:53:50] Mike: That's fair.
[00:53:52] Keith: And it's.
[00:53:52] Mike: Oh, that's probably like one of the worst things you could say, because then she knows like there's something in there.
[00:53:57] Keith: Maybe. Although people who are around me are used to me, right? Like it's.
[00:54:02] Mike: Yeah, that's true.
[00:54:03] Keith: It's like I think in a normal conversation with a new person, they would that would be really jarring. But anybody who's been around me for like a month, they're like, oh, yeah, all right. You're probably right.
[00:54:12] Mike: And to be honest, this isn't like you problem. Any this is a standard issue in a relationship that a man is going to have trouble talking with his partner about might have trouble talking with them about them about attractiveness, relative attractiveness.
[00:54:27] Mike: Yeah. And I, too, love
[00:54:30] Mike: you know identifying the most attractive woman in a picture or whatever. like Men are really good at that. it's it's something I think it's something our brains are attuned to.
[00:54:39] Keith: Yeah.
[00:54:39] Mike: ah Maybe it makes us better at like where's Waldo or something.
[00:54:39] Keith: Yeah.
[00:54:41] Mike: I'm not sure. ah But it's it's it's something fun for us. we always you know and And actually, I think that this ah lies it part ah partly lies at the core of why transgender people are harder for men to accept than women because we do ah We've discussed this before.
[00:54:57] Mike: We have like this rank ordering in our mind of all the sexual targets within like 30 feet of us all the time.
[00:54:59] Keith: Right.
[00:55:04] Keith: Right.
[00:55:04] Mike: And I think I think there's probably it's probably had some benefit when you in prehistorically, you know, you you needed to know where to put your semen, you know, for an animal or whatever.
[00:55:12] Keith: Yeah.
[00:55:14] Mike: It's like which which, you know, the chicken has to know the rooster has know which chicken he's going to go after.
[00:55:18] Keith: Right.
[00:55:18] Mike: um And so we have it in our brains.
[00:55:19] Keith: Right. And people that are trying short circuit my brain chemistry on that are a little bit, well, it stirs up a reaction.
[00:55:25] Mike: Well, that's what that's what animals do to animals, you know, have all these tail feathers all this crap. And that's the entire point of it is to is I mean, and with birds, it's of course the males doing it, but there's always one gender that's like doing that.
[00:55:30] Keith: Yeah.
[00:55:38] Mike: So, yeah.
[00:55:38] Keith: Yeah. All right. We've been going for almost an hour here, but I think we have time for one thing.
[00:55:42] Mike: All right.
[00:55:43] Keith: All right. So this person says, had toilet paper down there. i a 24-year-old woman.
[00:55:47] Mike: Oh, my God.
[00:55:49] Keith: Yeah. Yep. Finally, someone else writes about this. i
[00:55:53] Mike: Okay.
[00:55:54] Keith: 24-year-old female, hooked up with my friends with benefits, a 27-year-old guy tonight. Right before I had gone into his apartment, I used the lobby bathroom. And I guess the toilet paper was cheap and left some crumbles on me without realizing. So she's portraying something here that, um well, point out in minute.
[00:56:04] Mike: Yeah.
[00:56:09] Keith: I didn't know until he went to go down on me.
[00:56:09] Mike: yeah
[00:56:11] Keith: And I noticed he wiped me a few times with his hand. He went down on me immediately. Immediately after, so I didn't think much of it. And it wasn't until we finished and I stood up to put my clothes on, did I see the little pieces on the bed? but She's betraying something else there.
[00:56:25] Keith: I wasn't ah embarrassed initially, but now as I'm leaving, I am a little. I'm normally super clean and hygienic down there. So this was just an off moment. I don't know if I should text him to apologize or let it be. This is just a thing that happens sometimes.
[00:56:41] Keith: So i
[00:56:42] Mike: like Yeah, what's what's the data data that you've found that you revealed in there?
[00:56:45] Keith: Okay. Well, first of all, yeah, for our newer listeners, I am an expert on this topic. I once broke up with someone for committing this mortal sin.
[00:56:52] Mike: Yeah.
[00:56:52] Keith: Um, and I feel a little badly about it in retrospect, but, um,
[00:56:58] Mike: Breaking up with them. I mean, I think i think that as an i think it is not in your defense if you're giving oral sex to a woman and frankly a woman to a man too. Like if a woman has, if a woman puts your cock in her mouth and then withdraws it and then there's something still in her mouth other than, see you know, because you ejaculate, she's not going to, you know, I mean like a piece of paper or something.
[00:57:15] Keith: Yeah.
[00:57:19] Mike: mean It's not going to be a good day. She didn't want that.
[00:57:21] Keith: Yeah.
[00:57:22] Mike: And it's the same thing for a man.
[00:57:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:57:23] Mike: Like a man doesn't want to have anything hard do. non fluid solid that comes out or is interacted with. It's not a great it's because yeah like you don't want that.
[00:57:33] Keith: Look, I... I think it's reasonable to be mildly turned off or put off by somebody having... ah i was introduced in the comments to the phrase clitty litter.
[00:57:45] Mike: I've seen that before. Yeah.
[00:57:47] Keith: ah like I think it's normal. um It happens. ah It doesn't happen very often.
[00:57:53] Mike: I just don't I don't. Yeah, yeah.
[00:57:54] Keith: ah Because I'm so ah attuned to it, because i once had you know such a freak out that I broke up with someone about it, that... that ah yeah i i anyway Yeah, I think i note I would notice it more than the average Joe. And i and yeah, it just doesn't happen that often.
[00:58:13] Keith: like I can count on one hand the amount of times it's happened since then.
[00:58:13] Mike: right
[00:58:18] Keith: um and so But the thing that the two breadcrumbs she left was she said that right before I i had gone into his apartment, I used the lobby bathroom.
[00:58:29] Keith: So why would she do that instead of using the bathroom at his apartment?
[00:58:33] Mike: You're going to say that she was doing number two. I got it.
[00:58:35] Keith: i don't know why but for some reason and maybe she just you know didn't want maybe maybe he lives in a studio apartment and she didn't want him to hear her peeing look there's there's various like more innocuous explanations i don't think a man would tear it might be a mild turn on for for many
[00:58:37] Mike: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:58:50] Mike: Do you think a woman would care about that? I don't hear her peeing.
[00:58:56] Mike: Right. I think it's I think that the high probability here is poop.
[00:59:02] Mike: It just is.
[00:59:02] Keith: ah
[00:59:02] Mike: But I don't know if that's where you were going.
[00:59:03] Keith: It's definitely a strategy I use.
[00:59:04] Mike: Yeah.
[00:59:05] Keith: you know i'll I'll use the hotel lobby bathroom instead of the one. and you know I've had partners be like, why are you why don't you just come with me to the room?
[00:59:14] Mike: Yeah. Okay.
[00:59:14] Keith: and I'm like, well, I really have to go, which is not completely a lie. um
[00:59:21] Mike: Yeah, OK, OK.
[00:59:22] Keith: The reason why I really have to go is unknown to them, but in any case. Yeah,
[00:59:28] Keith: yeah and... Yeah, I don't know if she should feel badly about it or not. um But yeah, it's just not a great thing. like i i think I think if you're about to hook up with someone, if I were a woman, and I would add ah check my labia for for residue as a pre-sex checkup.
[00:59:45] Mike: I'm not sure I mean, I'm not sure that's physically possible on some level.
[00:59:49] Keith: Okay. It is. Because I know...
[00:59:51] Mike: Go on.
[00:59:54] Keith: Like, I check...
[00:59:56] Mike: Yes.
[00:59:57] Keith: I check to see if there's like any you know crud around my cock.
[01:00:03] Mike: You know, OK, so the right um I mean, i guess I would grant out taint as the thing you should be checking. But the right way to think is your anus. Like, let's say let's say it was important to make sure there was no nothing on your anus.
[01:00:12] Keith: Yeah, and I agree. now i mean it's really and ah Look, it's really important to me to try to not have pooped. since I've showered before I have sex. Now, sometimes it's unavoidable.
[01:00:27] Keith: And in the cases where I can't avoid it, like I will you know do whatever I can and then I will avoid letting her go down on me. And that's probably overly safe, but that's my protocol.
[01:00:37] Mike: Well, my but my point here, okay, fair. But my point here was not about her anus. My point was that the location of parts of her labia is more the same ah with your anus than your cock.
[01:00:50] Mike: So like imagine, try you would I think you would basically have to use the camera on your phone
[01:00:50] Keith: Hmm.
[01:00:55] Keith: Yeah.
[01:00:55] Mike: and squat over your can. Now maybe women should be doing this and maybe there's an app idea here. You have the woman squat over and it tells her like the cleanliness level. But I think you would have to do something like that or use a mirror to know how clean your anus is.
[01:01:04] Keith: No.
[01:01:09] Mike: And I think she would have to go to this level because she can't see the full set of her labia just from above. Like women can't do that, right?
[01:01:18] Keith: i
[01:01:20] Mike: seriously Curiously, curiously.
[01:01:21] Keith: We need to wrap it up here. But I have a ah a bundle of wet wipes that I leave on my toilet so that if a woman wants to use them before she commences the proceedings, before we commence the proceedings, she she can do so.
[01:01:30] Mike: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:36] Mike: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:39] Mike: But that wouldn't remove toilet paper, necessarily.
[01:01:39] Keith: And i I think it would. I think if you had toilet paper around your anus or labia and you took a wet... Also, I think you can know when the potential, and like you can tell from the texture of the toilet paper when you're in a higher risk situation.
[01:01:54] Keith: Also, one last thing, i think they can feel around too
[01:01:54] Mike: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:00] Mike: Sure, you can do that, but I mean, it it just seems like it might be.
[01:02:02] Keith: It's not going to be perfect, but, you know, what is it?
[01:02:05] Mike: Well, what?
[01:02:05] Keith: ah it's yeah We're using like a Swiss cheese approach here.
[01:02:05] Mike: Okay.
[01:02:07] Keith: Like every every little thing here ah creates, you know, another filter.
[01:02:12] Mike: Sure.
[01:02:12] Keith: And if you have to go through enough filters, then the probability of anything making you through all of them is pretty low.
[01:02:17] Mike: Let's say you're a woman. we i know we have to grab up, but let's say you're a woman and you've wiped and you're doing your feel around technique and you find something. What should she do next?
[01:02:25] Keith: Yeah. I don't know. Climb out the bathroom window and never speak to him again. i Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think... um She can just...
[01:02:33] Mike: like, it's gonna have to involve water, I think.
[01:02:36] Keith: say I mean, look. She can evaluate her man, and if she knows that he's as... as soft as I am around this issue, is as sensitive to it, she could be she could be like, look, I ah got to pop in the shower real quick.
[01:02:49] Keith: um And could be like, that sounds great.
[01:02:51] Mike: Ooh,
[01:02:52] Keith: Go for it. um But maybe some people would be and like maybe some people would find it gross or be like, oh, why iss she doing that? um
[01:03:00] Mike: It just suggests that she has like explosive diarrhea.
[01:03:05] Keith: I think... That is better than showing up with with the potential of various materials, fecal or paper.
[01:03:09] Mike: Sure.
[01:03:14] Mike: It is better, but it's like also it's not great. It's yeah.
[01:03:18] Keith: um Yeah, but I mean, you're you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here. You have no so perfect out.
[01:03:23] Mike: Women, it's tricky for women, man. I mean, I bet you've never had a woman when you were considering having sex just say to you, hey, I don't want have sex now because I have diarrhea. That's probably never happened.
[01:03:30] Keith: No, no, it it hasn't.
[01:03:32] Mike: You know?
[01:03:33] Keith: But ah yeah, I've long ago come to the realization that A lot of the time when I'm on a date and the person demurs and doesn't want to have sex, it's not because she doesn't want to have sex. It's because she's on her period or there's something going on.
[01:03:50] Keith: Right? Like, because a woman has never said like, listen, I really like you, but I just have to go home because and take a shit. Like no one has ever said that. I mean, that must have happened some percentage of the time.
[01:04:01] Keith: you know.
[01:04:01] Mike: Right, right, right. Yeah, I agree with you.
[01:04:04] Keith: Anyway, all right.
[01:04:04] Mike: Yeah.
[01:04:06] Keith: I feel like I've revealed a lot this episode and I'm not sure if it was great, but that will do it for this episode of Your Mileage May Vary. You can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod at gmail.com. That's ymmvpod at gmail.com. We pay $10 for any and all feedback received. So just let us know how to pay you ah in your email.
[01:04:26] Keith: Thanks for listening and we will catch you next week on Your Mileage May Vary.