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Episode 200: Novelty and Decline, Emotional Logistics, Terminal Ethics, Designer Insecurity, False Intimacy

Team YMMV | 3-28-2025 | 1:05:37

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Keith and Mike mark their 200th episode today. They begin by reflecting on the accuracy of milestone counting and segue into a discussion about Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron, and the fallibility of supposedly sacred sports statistics. Keith expresses suspicion that his own episode count spreadsheet may contain hidden corruption, though Mike assures him the podcast network’s data file would make such an error unlikely. The moment is appropriately celebrated with a shared sense of modest self-congratulation and implied service to humanity.

The conversation moves into a deeper analysis of male sexual psychology, sparked by a text from a woman who suggests that sex with a man often ends the pursuit. Keith and Mike consider the implications of novelty, companionship, and emotional labor in relationships, with Mike drawing an analogy to deer hunting and Keith delicately suggesting that some women might simply not be compelling. The two debate whether orgasm consistency and emotional intelligence can prolong male interest beyond the novelty window. Mike proposes a theory of dual peaks of male arousal: initial sex and the first time the woman has a believable orgasm, though Keith is skeptical most men track such things.

Later, the hosts discuss the cultural expectations placed on men in relationships, particularly the tension between emotional availability and sexual access. Keith outlines a behavioral pattern where men tolerate emotional excess in exchange for continued sexual opportunity, and questions whether women might strategically suppress their natural behaviors to avoid being broken up with. Mike suggests that all women have some amount of emotional nonsense, and if they don’t show it, it’s because they’ve hidden it. Keith, for his part, seems to welcome the deception so long as it's convincingly executed.

The episode concludes with a discussion of whether someone should sleep with a terminally ill, married former acquaintance. The hosts dissect the ethical, emotional, and practical implications of this decision, including the possibility that the illness is a ruse, the risks of posthumous heartbreak, and the general undesirability of sex with someone undergoing chemotherapy. They offer their standard dry pragmatism and qualify moral concerns with sufficient caveats to suit most worldviews.

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00:01] Keith: Hello, and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I am Keith, my co-host is Mike, and I believe this is our 200th episode.
  • [00:00:15] Mike: That's right, Keith. And um and we took a we were we took a break for a couple weeks prior. And um the main thing that happened during that break was we got an email from somebody who was terrified that we were not going to pay them $10 for their feedback because they thought we'd gone off the air.
  • [00:00:29] Mike: So we're just like ah like a very, very small welfare program here. Yeah.
  • [00:00:34] Keith: Wow. yeah Redistributing capital. ah What do you think? ah Whenever like momentous number things come along, I always i have this like weird perversion where I wonder if something has been miscounted. so like Famously,
  • [00:00:50] Keith: ah Barry Bonds has 700... How many home runs do they have total?
  • [00:00:54] Mike: Well, I mean, I as a kid really liked Hank Aaron and Hank Aaron at 755.
  • [00:01:00] Keith: Uh-huh.
  • [00:01:03] Mike: So he's going to be and I really don't like Barry Bonds.
  • [00:01:03] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:01:06] Mike: And I I mentioned that because I you know, they're they're both black so that you can't accuse me there.
  • [00:01:11] Keith: Right, right, right.
  • [00:01:11] Mike: just think Hank Aaron was a much better person than Barry Bonds.
  • [00:01:15] Keith: Oh, for sure.
  • [00:01:16] Mike: Anyway, yeah.
  • [00:01:17] Keith: Although, you sort of like deplorable people, so I'm a little bit confused.
  • [00:01:20] Mike: I don't like the cheating. And and Hank Aaron was like sort of tied up with the civil rights movement and stuff in a way that I kind of liked. Anyway, late 60s, really 70s.
  • [00:01:27] Keith: Yeah. ah Yeah, listen, Hank Aaron is obviously a much better hero than Barry Bonds.
  • [00:01:32] Mike: Yeah, actually have I actually have Hank Aaron's autograph because when I was a kid, I got one of these books that like told you how to get them.
  • [00:01:33] Keith: Although Barry Bonds has rehabilitated a bit since he retired. Oh, that's cool.
  • [00:01:41] Mike: And I wrote him a letter and got actually I have two because I told what told him one was from my friend Eddie, but I never gave it to him.
  • [00:01:46] Keith: Wow, you you stole an autograph.
  • [00:01:49] Mike: Yes, I did.
  • [00:01:49] Keith: Well, if only you could be as good a man as Hank Aaron, you know. um Okay, wait, so, but my point is, okay, so Barry Bonds has 762 total home runs.
  • [00:01:52] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:01:58] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:01:58] Keith: What chance do you ascribe to him having exactly that number? It's probably 99% something. Okay. Okay.
  • [00:02:05] Mike: Much higher than that. I mean, it's like 99.99 just because people are total nerds about that.
  • [00:02:07] Keith: okay Okay. you know So there's like baseball reference, right? you know they They track all the stats that have all...
  • [00:02:12] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:02:13] Keith: like you know There's a total number of home runs that they think have ever been hit in in Major League Baseball. yeah Would you agree that there's approximately a 100% chance that that number is off by at least one?
  • [00:02:24] Mike: Sure. I mean, like Babe Ruth had 714 famously, and ah but that was in like the 1920s and 30s, I want to say.
  • [00:02:28] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:02:32] Mike: And like, yeah, I mean, the odds are very high that there's some miscounting there because you didn't have the like footage of every single home run.
  • [00:02:32] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:02:37] Keith: Yeah, well, in Barry Bonds, or sorry, Babe Ruth, like maybe somebody's gone back and like checked for video footage, although maybe early in his career there wasn't. Like famously, Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game, there isn't video.
  • [00:02:45] Mike: don't know.
  • [00:02:48] Keith: um
  • [00:02:49] Mike: I don't think there's any chance there's video footage of something from the twenty s and 30s, even like ah of ah there there'd be a little bit, but even like a newsreel or whatever, there just won't be much.
  • [00:02:57] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, I just think that like miscountings on like some fairly sacred things are are sort of possible. i I think it's unlikely Barry Bonds' home runs were miscounted. But like you know LeBron James has something like over 50,000 career points.
  • [00:03:12] Keith: I bet they're off by...
  • [00:03:12] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:03:15] Keith: okay were just i mean i don't know. Maybe they have like safeguards in place now where they don't make mistakes there. but and ok Anyway, ah I'm pretty sure this is our 200th episode.
  • [00:03:26] Keith: week We keep a tab in a spreadsheet and we've been incrementing by one and...
  • [00:03:27] Mike: It is. Yeah.
  • [00:03:31] Mike: be hard to get that wrong. We have a, ah the the shows themselves are in a, a data file that's consumed by the podcast networks. And so I think it's pretty likely to be correct.
  • [00:03:39] Keith: Yeah. ah Okay. All right. Well, um congrats to us for, you know, really, we're really a service to the, to the people.
  • [00:03:44] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:03:49] Mike: I think we, I think we are, we're the most honest and unfiltered sex podcast out there. So.
  • [00:03:55] Keith: Yeah, that bar's pretty low.
  • [00:03:57] Mike: That's true.
  • [00:03:57] Keith: There's a lot of audience capture out there.
  • [00:03:58] Mike: It's really low.
  • [00:04:01] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:04:02] Keith: uh,
  • [00:04:04] Keith: was listening to a podcast last week or something. And they were talking about, you know, the left needs its, you know, Joe Rogan figure, like nevermind that Joe Rogan was pro Bernie. Um, and that he changed his mind due to, well, whatever.
  • [00:04:19] Keith: Uh, anyway, somebody so suggested Alex Cooper. Uh, and they were, they were saying that, um,
  • [00:04:23] Mike: yeah It's probably right.
  • [00:04:29] Keith: you know So there's basically three late night guys left. There's Stephen Colbert and then Jimmy Fallon and Jimmy Kimmel. And there's a couple other shows that pop up from time to time, but they don't they don't have material ratings.
  • [00:04:37] Mike: You don't count. Yeah.
  • [00:04:42] Keith: um And probably Colbert, Kimmel, and Fallon's ratings are are falling too. But there's still like sort of cultural touchstones. And yeah, this person was suggesting that you know maybe ABC could you know throw a Brinks truck at Alex Cooper. And they'd have to because Spotify or whoever paying her now already has.
  • [00:05:00] Keith: But maybe she would they'd be like, look, you can you can host the the Oscars and you know you would be more culturally relevant. She might go for it.
  • [00:05:09] Mike: Yeah, I mean, that's probably I don't I don't see how it would be any different than something like The View. i I mean, I'm assuming her politics are far left progressive. So it's I think I know you could give me a topic and I know what she's going to say already. And that's probably part I think part of the reason why Joe Rogan does well is because you don't know what's going to happen exactly.
  • [00:05:30] Mike: Like it's kind it's I mean, Howard Stern famously was was people wondered what it was going to do, what he was going to do next.
  • [00:05:30] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:05:35] Mike: And the problem is, it's just so predictable what's going to happen on these shows that it's not it's not that fun.
  • [00:05:38] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:05:42] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, maybe I should have mentioned at the start, but Alex Cooper is the host of Call Her Daddy, which is by far the biggest sex and relationships podcast. Might be the biggest podcast in the world. Is it bigger than like The Daily?
  • [00:05:55] Mike: It's not bigger than Joe Rogan, but it and she's not really a sex podcast anymore.
  • [00:05:57] Keith: Oh, fair point.
  • [00:05:59] Mike: She just interviews celebrities.
  • [00:06:00] Keith: No, she interviews Kamala Harris.
  • [00:06:01] Mike: It's a standard. Yeah.
  • [00:06:03] Keith: Whatever.
  • [00:06:04] Mike: Right. Right.
  • [00:06:06] Keith: All right. ah ah Enough on her. i I just can't help from bringing her up like once every 10 episodes. I'm so irritated by her entire premise.
  • [00:06:17] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:06:19] Keith: um All right. ah Do you have any pattern for us?
  • [00:06:21] Mike: I have a couple of things. So I was speaking with a woman and she was mentioned.
  • [00:06:24] Keith: Wow. Lucky you. Yeah.
  • [00:06:25] Mike: Yeah, I know she was mentioning to me. how I just want to read what she wrote. It was it was via a, you know, all communication nowadays happens via text, um which then makes you wonder if it's a real person or just a chat GPT lookalike.
  • [00:06:33] Keith: Uh-huh.
  • [00:06:38] Mike: Anyway, she said, I think as soon as you have sex with a guy, you meaning the woman lose your specialness. Or as you say, novelty, I must have. Oh, because I've told her that like ah I give her some of the info from the podcast, some of the things we've discovered about men needing novel female partners and having higher orgasm intensity when they have a novel partner.
  • [00:06:59] Mike: OK, she said in modern times that becomes a sort of hatred. Like in this, i thought this was this was insightful. Like, how dare you take away my first time with you by having sex with me?
  • [00:07:10] Mike: Does that make sense?
  • [00:07:11] Keith: It does. Yeah.
  • [00:07:13] Mike: but So I actually thought that was insightful. It's like and I thought she thinks she's basically right that the guy is super excited to have sex with a novel partner and then he kind of blames her that she's no longer awful like right after they finish having sex.
  • [00:07:26] Keith: Right.
  • [00:07:28] Mike: Like, i mean, is this something you've experienced or thought about before?
  • [00:07:31] Keith: Well... I don't know if it's particularly insightful. Okay, I think it's mostly agreed that men...
  • [00:07:36] Mike: OK.
  • [00:07:38] Keith: No, I think what she says is sort of insightful, but the insight that men occasionally or even frequently become less interested after they've gotten laid by a new partner.
  • [00:07:49] Keith: I think that's that's sort of widely agreed, although some people would probably contest us on that.
  • [00:07:54] Mike: Right.
  • [00:07:55] Keith: I think it's a little bit... Hmm, let me think of this phrasing as too strong. I'm going to say it. It's a little bit misogynist. for her to think that. like i think that I think that um I don't know what it is that most men want from romantic relationships.
  • [00:08:16] Keith: like What is it that they want from a woman? like Obviously sex. But then beyond that, um are they looking for companionship where they can talk about sports? like Probably not.
  • [00:08:27] Keith: So are they looking for you know a soft emotional touch to help them through you know life's hard the challenges?
  • [00:08:36] Mike: I think it's like a, I think, I mean, I think you basically hit on it, like the yes on the soft emotional touch and then like the sports thing. Okay. But I mean, it's basically like companionship and a cure for loneliness. Right.
  • [00:08:48] Mike: And like, you can't really do that with a man unless you're gay because, know, ah because men are out there looking for sex. So it's like it's like it's this person who can fulfill.
  • [00:08:59] Mike: You can sort of like you're compatible like in in in the sexual domain as well. So like you don't you don't really need another person. Like if you have a male friend, there's always going to be a woman somewhere.
  • [00:09:10] Mike: Right. So there's going to be this other is is going to be a Yoko put it. So, the like the you know, the the Beatles, you know, we're not stable because it's all men.
  • [00:09:14] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:09:18] Mike: Right. And you're going to have this this sort of thing happen.
  • [00:09:18] Keith: yeah
  • [00:09:20] Mike: and So I think like it's like, oh, this is a stable situation because all of the needs can be met ah just within this couple.
  • [00:09:28] Keith: I sort of feel like she is suggesting that the main thing that men are want is the sex.
  • [00:09:40] Keith: And after that's been been gotten, the the need for pursuit plummets because you know they've they've sort of like established that thing. And and yeah, that that that plummeting can cause... Yeah, yeah. like the way she How did she phrase it exactly?
  • [00:09:57] Mike: ah Well, I mean, I thought the most ah compelling part was ah like, how dare you take away my first time with you by having sex with me?
  • [00:10:02] Keith: right
  • [00:10:05] Keith: Right.
  • [00:10:06] Mike: I really liked.
  • [00:10:06] Keith: Yeah. yeah like I'm calling that like a yeah it's like a plummet in in pursuit. um yeah i'm like almost
  • [00:10:12] Mike: But it's also blaming her, right? It's like it's like you
  • [00:10:15] Keith: yeah
  • [00:10:16] Mike: Like, like, um i mean, he's she's basically saying that the guy might feel have felt happier if she denied him sex, because then the pursuit. Well, I guess that's just saying it where we're great.
  • [00:10:26] Mike: Then the pursuit could have continued. So he's mad that this part like like it would be like if you were ah out hunting deer, how dare the deer let you shoot it?
  • [00:10:37] Keith: Right.
  • [00:10:37] Mike: Because now the game's over. i think it's like sort of valid.
  • [00:10:39] Keith: Right. Yeah. Yeah, I do too. i just, yeah, I don't know what that says culturally.
  • [00:10:50] Keith: Like, i I agree that many men will react and at least analogously to what she's suggesting there. And so, like, i yeah, I don't know.
  • [00:11:02] Keith: i think that's like a reflection of a bigger issue, which is that Yeah, like the main thing men want is like to pursue sexual novelty. And that's not like a great revelation.
  • [00:11:14] Keith: um Like, okay. So many things in these like early relationship discussions come down to this thing where, yeah, I think that like a lot of women, the primary reason they're compelling to a man is because of the sex they offer.
  • [00:11:29] Keith: I think it's very, very reasonably possible for women to be compelling for other reasons.
  • [00:11:31] Mike: Right.
  • [00:11:35] Keith: but they often aren't. And when they're not, then they have this...
  • [00:11:37] Mike: Ooh.
  • [00:11:40] Keith: experience that happens over and over again, which is like, oh, I just don't understand why he's he's not that into me. And it's like, well, like i don't yeah like I don't have male friends that I'm not that into because there's not they there's nothing they can offer. right So they they just go they're just gone. But I think some men will like basically run like a Potemkin relationship ah in order to like keep sex, but they're not going to really try at it because they're their heart isn't there.
  • [00:12:10] Keith: And so, yeah, like i don't, let me just finish.
  • [00:12:11] Mike: so you So you're like, yeah. like
  • [00:12:14] Keith: Yeah. I don't know what to say to people who often have this, you know, report this problem.
  • [00:12:14] Mike: yeah
  • [00:12:18] Keith: We're like, man, like, I just feel like men, you know, they're, they're not trying, they're not pursuing, they're not doing whatever. It's like, well, yeah, maybe like all men are terrible. And, and that is like a ah reasonable hypothesis to be honest.
  • [00:12:32] Keith: um But it could also be that you're not that compelling. And that's sort of the tough medicine.
  • [00:12:35] Mike: right
  • [00:12:37] Keith: But yeah, I don't know how to like get around that. And you know I'm not saying like all men are wonderful too. um like Most men suck as well. and so But yeah, I don't know how how to get around that.
  • [00:12:49] Mike: But regardless of... So, i yeah, i got it. you'rere there's there's a so ah you you Just from this one piece of information about this person you're questioning, is this person not compelling? And I get it. That's a reasonable concern.
  • [00:12:59] Keith: That's my question.
  • [00:13:02] Mike: um is is There would naturally, however, be a diminishment of something of interest after that first sexual encounter, right?
  • [00:13:12] Mike: Or maybe maybe not. Maybe you would argue, no, actually, like you want to I mean, maybe this is partly i mean, you there are multiple sexual positions and stuff. And so you may not have done everything you wanted to do to this person in that first encounter.
  • [00:13:24] Mike: Right. So you could at least probably extend it out to, say, five encounters just by saying, oh, well I want to i want to have an orgasm from a blowjob missionary doggy style.
  • [00:13:35] Keith: Sure, sure, sure.
  • [00:13:36] Mike: There's like enough different stuff.
  • [00:13:37] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:13:38] Mike: Right.
  • [00:13:39] Keith: I mean, first time having sex and like you know first couple weeks of having sex can probably be exchanged, can be used interchangeably.
  • [00:13:46] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:13:49] Mike: um But ah yeah, okay. But there there is going to be a decline that happens ah at at some point with with the person. And that's where you would argue that. oh So actually, I wanted to say, what it looks that's where I think you're you're saying that that like them actually being interesting, an interesting person would fill in the gap.
  • [00:14:07] Mike: Do you find that ah one of one of the pushbacks that I think I would offer to this is I think that at least for some percentage of men, there is a there are two possible peaks here in novelty. One is when the the guy gets to have sex with them the first time. And the second is, and I'm going to say this, when the woman starts enjoying it, which I realize people can be have different opinions about this.
  • [00:14:34] Mike: But I think in many cases... ah The woman's comfort level takes longer to establish. And when I say enjoy, I basically mean has a believable orgasm during sex with the guy.
  • [00:14:44] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:14:46] Mike: And I'm guessing that that might take two to eight weeks. After that first encounter.
  • [00:14:53] Keith: Sure. Sure.
  • [00:14:54] Mike: And so I could see a guy basically also kind of getting excited about that experience of like, oh, now she's fully on board or something. And so that might also extend it beyond like just a couple encounters.
  • [00:15:07] Mike: I'm not sure if this is a thing that occurs to you.
  • [00:15:07] Keith: Yeah, sure. i mean, there's various ways to keep a man as close to maximally sexually interested as is reasonably possible.
  • [00:15:20] Keith: But yeah, I think the better strategy is to be an interesting person.
  • [00:15:21] Mike: Mm hmm.
  • [00:15:27] Keith: ah The better long-term strategy.
  • [00:15:29] Mike: but oh But hang on, up but you're you're evading this little piece of it. I mean, do you think it's it's it's it's a it's a meaningful thing to say that a guy might might have a second peak of intensity around ah her orgasm or and kind of getting into it more?
  • [00:15:45] Mike: Or does that just not, do you think maybe a guy's, that's so minor that it's, it doesn't.
  • [00:15:50] Keith: Yeah. but yeah i Well, I think in general, no. like i would guess that the female experience would be no.
  • [00:15:54] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:15:55] Keith: I think most men are not enlightened enough about this to know that like they just believe that women are having orgasms all the time.
  • [00:15:58] Mike: and Okay.
  • [00:16:02] Keith: or yeah they Yeah, like most men don't even know that don't even understand the premise here, let alone you know behave differently based on...
  • [00:16:11] Mike: Okay, so so there.
  • [00:16:13] Keith: ah For some men, you know the most erudite, ah maybe. But...
  • [00:16:17] Mike: Yes, the the YMMV listeners among us perhaps are having the second peak of intensity two to eight weeks, ideally closer to two than eight, but it does depend on the woman.
  • [00:16:20] Keith: Yes. Yeah.
  • [00:16:26] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:16:28] Mike: um Okay, so another thing this person said to me is that she has commiserated multiple times, multiple times with women who are getting married And I really liked this fact pattern and and are uncertain about the marriage because basically the guy doesn't give them orgasms.
  • [00:16:49] Keith: yeah
  • [00:16:50] Mike: ah In one case, it was that she knew that the guy had visited prostitutes. ah But then after the marriage, it's never talked about again.
  • [00:17:02] Mike: And so the presumption she has, which I think is accurate, is that she's basically people are confiding in her. And this stuff still going on, meaning the guy who is visiting the prostitutes is still visiting the prostitutes.
  • [00:17:15] Mike: The woman who's now been married for five years hasn't had an orgasm with a man in five years, <unk> etc.
  • [00:17:19] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, listen. I think it's like cockroaches for everyone yet for every one she ever knew about. There's probably 10 she didn't know about.
  • [00:17:27] Mike: Mm hmm.
  • [00:17:28] Keith: um like The problem's even worse than she's positing.
  • [00:17:33] Mike: So what's the what's the I mean, do you have a theory about i mean this isn't so you have incels who are people that are involuntarily celibate who have just like no interest or they don't just they've given up on women because they don't think they they they're they're they're not rising to the top of the pack.
  • [00:17:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:17:49] Mike: And maybe because of things like dating apps, women are all circling around the same small group of men, ah one of whom might or might not be you. um ah But ah i mean you mean it, Keith.
  • [00:18:02] Mike: ah But the um to be clear to the ladies in the audience, but to ah there's another like idea here, which is so there's there's this large set of men who just don't care at all about the woman's experience during sex. I don't think there's a word for that.
  • [00:18:19] Mike: It seems like there should be.
  • [00:18:20] Keith: Do you think it's that they don't care or they just don't? like Talking about sex is uncomfortable for most people. And there's there's a lot of insecurity wrapped up in it too.
  • [00:18:28] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:18:31] Keith: like I think it's probably easier for the average man to just delude himself than to actually do the work to become a better lover.
  • [00:18:40] Mike: If if if I can tell i can say this and I think you would agree, I'm sure you would agree being an erudite man that if as a man you get good at talking about this, like most women will. act And it's kind of fun.
  • [00:18:50] Mike: Well, actually, whether or not you're like pursuing them sexually, they will talk to you like women actually, I think have a.
  • [00:18:53] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:18:56] Mike: i actually I think a real hunger in general to talk to men about these topics.
  • [00:19:02] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:19:02] Mike: Who will not judge them, who have some information at their fingertips or in their brain and who kind of know generally what's going on. Like women, I found like it's yeah, there's like a wealth of kind of entertaining and fun conversation possible ah with women here.
  • [00:19:17] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:19:19] Mike: And I don't I genuinely find it difficult to understand why a man would not want that conversation, given men's propensity to want to think about sex a lot.
  • [00:19:27] Keith: I think the downside risk in a marriage is is really high.
  • [00:19:27] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:19:31] Keith: So, you know, let's say you've been together for seven years, right?
  • [00:19:32] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:19:36] Keith: And, you know, after listening to our podcast for a while, you're like, man, like, I really need to check in with my partner to sort of see where we are with this.
  • [00:19:45] Mike: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:19:45] Keith: The downside risk is that like, yeah, you find out that she's never had an orgasm, that, you know, all the sex you've ever had has basically been perfunctory at best on her part.
  • [00:19:46] Mike: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:19:56] Keith: um if not like a little bit of salty in her experience. And, you know, the things that she wants are not things that you're, like you know, that maybe there are things that you're unable to do or uninterested in doing.
  • [00:20:10] Keith: And, you know, once you sort of like rock the boat, you can't, you know, you can't shove everything back in the box. It's it's too late for mixing analogies or metaphors there, but.
  • [00:20:20] Mike: I think there's also i I think I think that's right. And I think there I think there's more possible outcome outcomes that would be shitty for a person. I think the most. okay that's probably a really common one. And another really common outcome I think a ah person might experience is the woman just not just being like, yeah, I don't care that much about this.
  • [00:20:38] Keith: Yeah, that would like look, there's there's a whole cone of uncertainty, but you know like ah the majority of the outcomes are not great. um
  • [00:20:48] Mike: Right.
  • [00:20:49] Keith: yeah you know When people tell me, like oh, you know we're we're we're going to a therapist, or or you know occasionally hear people you hear couples are going to sex therapists, it's like, uh-oh.
  • [00:20:57] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:21:00] Keith: and Getting people to change materially in their proclivities is is hard. like Certainly, Once the problem's been like raised, you may as well, like yeah, like it's too late. you You have to do everything you can to try to fix it. But my expectations, I'm sure if you talk to a sex therapist, they would be like, oh, we are we're ignorant. We don't know.
  • [00:21:21] Keith: like They've seen like real change in couples and you know seen really positive impacts of of their work with them. But I bet on average, um it doesn't.
  • [00:21:27] Mike: you
  • [00:21:33] Keith: I bet on average, the outcome of suddenly being much more vocal about your wants and needs physically to your partner and in like a long-term relationship. i bet on average that it goes worse.
  • [00:21:45] Keith: and and I don't know, maybe that's a provocative thing to say, but I bet I'm right. I don't know how you can measure this in any meaningful way.
  • [00:21:53] Mike: I think my my intuition is you're right about that as well. um And I mean, i just just the mere fact of having this commiseration session, you know, immediately or relatively prior to a wedding, and then the woman still marries the person.
  • [00:22:09] Mike: what ah that suggests just like a profound, not maybe lack of interest.
  • [00:22:13] Keith: but she's already given up.
  • [00:22:15] Mike: Right.
  • [00:22:15] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:22:15] Mike: Exactly. Like this, just like, look, this is hopeless. This is, this is just how it's going to be. And I can't, I mean, I'm a okay. I'm imagining that for women, the underlying thing here is biological clock driven.
  • [00:22:29] Mike: And they just think, well, if I want to have a family, if I want to have a kid, if I want to have a stable life, I just have to give up on orgasms.
  • [00:22:38] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:22:38] Mike: And they're like, okay, that's that's worth it.
  • [00:22:41] Keith: Yeah. I mean, Okay, it's like I have two thoughts here. The first is, let's say you're a woman who doesn't really like masturbating.
  • [00:22:54] Keith: you know Getting to orgasm is hard for you, and so you've never really gotten that into it.
  • [00:22:56] Mike: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:22:59] Keith: You don't think about it that much because yeah you haven't really you haven't seen the light. You haven't seen like how great that can be. um do you think that person should... more fully explore things? like Maybe if they more fully explored things, they would just be disappointed that they can't have the experience that other people are having.
  • [00:23:21] Mike: um i I mean, honestly, I think that in most cases that the when women are in that situation, it's it's it's it's basically always women. I think there are men who don't find masturbating compelling, but it's rare.
  • [00:23:35] Mike: I think that what is it that
  • [00:23:35] Keith: Hard to imagine. like I don't think I know any, but yeah maybe it's possible.
  • [00:23:37] Mike: I think the view is like the the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
  • [00:23:41] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:23:41] Mike: And I think that actually is sort of rational ah in the sense that it doesn't feel good for that long to maybe justify spending that much time doing this thing that's a little bit complicated, blah, blah, blah.
  • [00:23:53] Mike: ah Men, it's different. I think the reason it's different for men is men have a biological necessity to orgasm and women don't.
  • [00:24:01] Keith: Yeah, it's like an imperative. Yeah.
  • [00:24:03] Mike: Like my guess would be that There are a lot of my actually I'm I'm certain that there are just some large number of women on the planet who are say 40 who haven't had who have never had an orgasm. That's certainly true. And but even my my strong view would be there are a lot of women walking around that are 40 that can have an orgasm and haven't had one since they were 30 and they just don't care.
  • [00:24:26] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:24:27] Mike: Whereas that's impossible for a man basically.
  • [00:24:28] Keith: That feels... Yeah.
  • [00:24:32] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:24:32] Keith: yeah i think those's things Yeah, I just can imagine the feedback we're going to get about this, but whatever. um Yeah, the other thought I had was, okay, I don't know if this analogy is good, but I'm going to lay it out.
  • [00:24:45] Keith: I often find that, you know so I'm in my mid-40s, and I have a lot of friends who have youngish families, you know children that haven't gone to college yet.
  • [00:24:56] Keith: And if I try to interrogate them about... whether they're happy that they sort of chose the life path they had.
  • [00:25:04] Mike: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:25:04] Keith: um and They might feel sort of intrinsically attacked a little bit coming from me. right like i'm sort of like um mostly single and my life choices. ask people, you happy with life you've chosen?
  • [00:25:19] Keith: ah you know life choices um and so when i ask people like you know are you happy with sort of the life you've chosen they they really clam up.
  • [00:25:30] Keith: They don't want to talk about it much. And maybe that's adaptive. you know If they like had a long conversation with me and understood what my day-to-day was like and ah you know how good things are, that might just make them might make their situation and intolerable.
  • [00:25:48] Keith: And so I think it may be with people and their sex lives after they've been with a partner for a long time. like they They sort of you know vibrate into some sort of norms where people are mostly okay with the way things are. And if you start vibrating in a way that ah disturbs that, you open up the risk that you're going to have to turn your life upside down.
  • [00:26:10] Keith: And people just don't want to do that that. The downside risk of having to do that in a negative way is too high.
  • [00:26:17] Mike: I mean, to be fair, though, there's ah they also may be pretty aware of the of ah the downsides of alternative choices, like for being single.
  • [00:26:26] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:26:27] Mike: Maybe that's loneliness for dating and sex.
  • [00:26:29] Keith: Sure.
  • [00:26:31] Mike: It's and I actually wanted to ask you about this. ah there This flows into ah one one other brief topic here. Yeah.
  • [00:26:38] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:26:39] Mike: For dating and sex, it's the um necessity of tolerating ah probably fairly immature partners' um proclivities in terms of requiring you to...
  • [00:26:51] Keith: Hmm.
  • [00:26:55] Mike: um cater to their emotional needs and so forth. And then the, and that the and and what, and let me be more specific on this because it brings up a point I wanted to ask you. Um, I, I generally,
  • [00:27:10] Mike: model in my head other people as being pretty mature and sort of like put together. i think that's wrong. Actually, I realize it's a bad model, mental model.
  • [00:27:21] Mike: ah However, one thing that I hadn't really considered is the impact or I don't know if I considered fully is the impact of constant reachability via texting and phone calls, but really texting constantly all day long and how that would be a problem if you are dating a let's call it histrionic woman who requires, and so like you know i can I can imagine what this looks like if the woman is say 20, because I think basically all women when they're 20 are histrionic.
  • [00:27:45] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:27:56] Mike: um they They have like these, everything that happens an emergency in their life and they're just constantly like on this weird emotional roller coaster. However, I think like, go on, yeah.
  • [00:28:04] Keith: Well, yeah well, and there's, um, almost formally erected expectations around and digital conversation patterns.
  • [00:28:15] Mike: This is what i yeah, this is part of what I wanted to get at. So I my my impression generally is that generationally, perhaps this histrionicness actually extends further, maybe into a woman's 30s, maybe 40s. I don't know.
  • [00:28:28] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:28:28] Mike: And so then as an so when you look when you're a 20 year old boy. It's sort of worth it, I guess, to deal with this bullshit because it's sort of hard to get sex. You're dealing with the most attractive cohort of women. So you're getting the best kind of attractiveness sex and in that sense.
  • [00:28:45] Mike: Like you're you're getting something that like a 50 year old would would would salivate over. And like you don't have the life experience like you're you're learning a bit about the other gender.
  • [00:28:55] Keith: Sure.
  • [00:28:55] Mike: But if you're your age, I mean, what do you do if you are dating a woman who's whatever, 35, 30 and starts doing this? And what by this, I mean, everything's an emotional rollercoaster emergency.
  • [00:29:11] Mike: And she starts she texts you constantly. And if you don't reply soon enough, then the fact that you didn't reply becomes an emotional rollercoaster emergency. And then finally, If you fuck all this up, the ah slot machine of her pussy stops working. Like, how do you?
  • [00:29:26] Mike: Is that a thing? Am I? Am I? I'm imagining this, but is this a thing that happens?
  • [00:29:32] Keith: um I think this is definitely a thing that happens, but it's a little bit unrelatable for me.
  • [00:29:36] Mike: OK.
  • [00:29:39] Keith: let me
  • [00:29:40] Mike: Oh, let's let me do tell.
  • [00:29:42] Keith: Let me give an example. So I was in my run club a couple weeks ago, and somebody who's often there wasn't there. and there was a discussion about why they weren't there.
  • [00:29:53] Keith: And somebody said, like oh, um his wife thinks he runs too much, and you know so maybe maybe that's like why he wasn't there.
  • [00:30:00] Mike: What?
  • [00:30:03] Mike: She wants him to have a heart attack.
  • [00:30:05] Keith: And well, look, I don't know what their exact situation is.
  • [00:30:05] Mike: It's good. Okay, go on.
  • [00:30:10] Keith: I believe that that person doesn't have children, so it's just about his availability to her, I guess.
  • [00:30:14] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:30:18] Keith: um And you could imagine somebody having a hobby. like Back in the dark ages, I played World of Warcraft a lot, and I was in a relationship, and I was playing it like way too much.
  • [00:30:32] Keith: And you know she communicated. Actually, she was pretty patient about it, but I kind of got depressed and... If at some point she were to say, like look, man, like I would like you to be playing less World of Warcraft, that would have been a very reasonable thing for her to say.
  • [00:30:47] Keith: And I could have chosen whether I should have knocked it off, it like which I liked better. um
  • [00:30:54] Mike: Right.
  • [00:30:55] Keith: think I would have chosen the wrong path there. But in any case, um ah I can't imagine... ah partner of mine coming to me and telling me, Keith, I think you're exercising too much. I'd like you to spend more time doing other things with me or otherwise. like i just Nobody would try saying that to me because they know that I would just immediately break up with them.
  • [00:31:20] Keith: like i i I don't often have the issue where somebody
  • [00:31:20] Mike: Ah, OK.
  • [00:31:24] Keith: i don't often have the issue ah where somebody tries to enforce unreasonable expectations on me because i i don't think I come off as the kind of person that can be cowed to that kind of bullshit.
  • [00:31:37] Mike: Well,
  • [00:31:37] Keith: and so But I do think there's
  • [00:31:42] Keith: you know there's a lot of men who yeah, not only will acquiesce to it, but almost maybe they kind of like it themselves. like Like, I have a lot of experience seeing people's relationships where like jealousy is a big thing. They're like, oh, where were you? Where were you?
  • [00:31:58] Keith: You know, what were you doing? And it's like, yeah, like i I wouldn't tolerate that at all. But like some people...
  • [00:32:05] Mike: Yeah, you're you're you're interpreting it as a requirement is being placed upon you. But let's say it's a just they want to tell you what Jody said at the office at length and the emotions that that raised.
  • [00:32:15] Keith: Yeah, right. Okay.
  • [00:32:19] Mike: And then what basically, what like whatever you reply, it'll be not perfectly right. And so therefore... that creates like a whole conversation, which is not necessarily directed at you, but it's just like, it, it doesn't, it doesn't end very quickly and it's not really that interesting.
  • [00:32:33] Keith: okay
  • [00:32:35] Mike: And then, you know, that tomorrow Jody is going to say something different and yeah.
  • [00:32:38] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. it as I've like four things to say to this. i Let me see if I can remember them all.
  • [00:32:42] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:32:43] Keith: First of all, I do like gossiping a little bit. So when my partners are able to sort of compellingly, you know, dish the tea about things going on at work or in their social circles, I think I like that more than the average person.
  • [00:32:45] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:32:54] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:32:55] Keith: ah Two, if I find my partners uncompelling, I generally will break up with them. Now, some of that is like privilege, right?
  • [00:33:05] Keith: Like I, you know, look and behave and have, privilege you know, financial standing in a way that, you know, means there's a lot of fish in the sea.
  • [00:33:06] Mike: yeah
  • [00:33:14] Keith: um But also, I think I'm probably not as sex-seeking or like sex-obsessed as the average person. And so certain dynamics that often emerge, like just don't really apply to me.
  • [00:33:24] Mike: okay
  • [00:33:28] Keith: But like, I think a super common dynamic is one that I think you're implicitly describing here, which is Yeah, like a man has a partner. He thinks she's hot. She's the gatekeeper to sex.
  • [00:33:39] Keith: um And you know part of the keeping of that gate is that he needs to listen to her prattle on about some nonsense with her friends, or he needs to go to brunch on Sundays instead of run, or whatever it is, right?
  • [00:33:47] Mike: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:33:52] Keith: Yeah. And because of that, yeah, her being the gatekeeper to sex, like he sort of tolerates more than he would with like, say a buddy. And so, yeah, I, and then specifically to like the, the Gen Z stuff where, you know, if they, they text you, they expect to, you know, message back and, you know, it can't be perfunctory. Like, they you know, you need to sort of engage on the, the patterns they want you
  • [00:34:25] Mike: Although I was at the Apple store ah to buy a there was an incident with a computer that one of my kids has and we had to buy a new one. ah And well, it just broke that the screen, the screen broke.
  • [00:34:34] Keith: An incident. Okay.
  • [00:34:38] Mike: ah But the um ah the the gentleman there helping us and they're so obsequious at the Apple store, it's amazing.
  • [00:34:38] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:34:45] Keith: I know, i know.
  • [00:34:46] Mike: um He was he was actually he used this as an example for Apple intelligence was basically like, hey, if you need to respond to, you know, someone, your boyfriend, girlfriend, like you can like you can write like three words and they have this button you click and like a little rainbow colored thing up appears and then but boom it produces like a like a six paragraph essay for them anyway.
  • [00:35:07] Keith: it
  • [00:35:07] Mike: So this technology may be solving this problem.
  • [00:35:08] Keith: That's amazing. you could outsource You can outsource annoying conversations to an LLM.
  • [00:35:13] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:35:13] Keith: That's great.
  • [00:35:13] Mike: Yeah. You just you just give it like the bullet points of what you want to say in it. it ah And it also will translate their thing into bullet points for you. So you don't even have to read their their screed. Anyway, go on.
  • [00:35:23] Keith: hu
  • [00:35:24] Mike: Or maybe that it.
  • [00:35:25] Keith: Yeah, like as soon as a year from now, you can probably say, like look, like I'm dating a 26-year-old. This is her job. these you... know can you respond in the way that you think that you know she would like and that maximizes the following objectives.
  • [00:35:40] Mike: I mean, I think to some extent what you called is Gen Z behavior.
  • [00:35:40] Keith: And then
  • [00:35:42] Mike: That's what it encourages. But I want like of men to do. But I wanted to ask you about so the ah kind of quick trigger, hair trigger rather, of ah breaking up because of the many fish in the sea.
  • [00:35:56] Mike: Do you think there's, you must have thought about this, that there's some risk by by being that way that you would... ah that basically women would um conceal all of this stuff from you.
  • [00:36:09] Mike: So basically they would have a kind of a second life going on that you're not part of because my prior on this is that all women have this nonsense bullshit going on.
  • [00:36:11] Keith: yeah
  • [00:36:20] Mike: You're not going to find one that doesn't have like a whole bunch of weird emotional things they want to go over.
  • [00:36:22] Keith: Do you feel like your sister is that way? Maybe you don't to say.
  • [00:36:26] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:36:26] Keith: Huh. Yeah.
  • [00:36:29] Keith: maybe you don't want to say
  • [00:36:31] Mike: Yes. Yes, I do. My sister's very, ah very has many many very masculine traits. She is, has a male fiance, but I do think there's a bunch of yes, because I've had to, um ah many times I've been on the phone with her and it's like, uh-huh, uh-huh.
  • [00:36:39] Keith: yeah
  • [00:36:48] Mike: it just goes, I'm like, yeah, it's fine.
  • [00:36:51] Keith: yeah
  • [00:36:51] Mike: But it's just, yeah, that that that happens. and And I feel like I don't do that to other people as much. Yeah.
  • [00:36:56] Keith: I think my sisters are women and as such you know care about certain kinds of... emotional things more than I do.
  • [00:37:08] Keith: ah But I think, honestly, i think in many ways they're, I'm not going to say they're like embarrassed of it, but yeah, like my mom was like a fairly strong actualized woman and my sisters both are too.
  • [00:37:21] Keith: And so I think it's possible. Okay. to your To your initial question, which is, do I think that my behavior pattern maybe causes women to pretend to be a different way than they would actually like to be? Yeah, maybe.
  • [00:37:38] Keith: But I don't give a shit, man. like i i I want them to either be the person that I want to date, or if they have to pretend to be the person I want to date, I guess that's fine.
  • [00:37:41] Mike: yeah
  • [00:37:50] Keith: I mean, it's bad it's a bad long-term strategy for them. And maybe it's a bad strategy for me to like, like maybe I should ask more questions around that. But in terms of my day-to-day experience, it's indistinguishable from someone who wants to be that way and someone who's pretending to be that way.
  • [00:38:07] Mike: That's interesting. So it doesn't this gets down. This is like the amateur versus professional porn. Like it doesn't like it bothers me if I get the sense that the person is putting on an act for me. Of course, it would bother you if you got that that sense.
  • [00:38:17] Keith: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:38:18] Mike: But your hope is that they'll be so good at it that you will not get that sense. And of course, I couldn't know. Maybe people are putting on acts for me all the time.
  • [00:38:25] Keith: Well, yeah, and I'm just an oblivious man, so I you know wouldn't sense it as much as a woman might.
  • [00:38:30] Mike: You think so? Yeah, I'm not sure about that either.
  • [00:38:31] Keith: I don't know. No, I don't. I don't know.
  • [00:38:35] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:38:36] Keith: Yeah, I have had some breakups where um yeah like the big reveal from my partner at the end like just totally blindsided me. So, yeah, maybe I do have that going on more than I think.
  • [00:38:47] Mike: Go on. You don't want to say that's fine.
  • [00:38:50] Keith: I mean, you know...
  • [00:38:53] Mike: Or what's like a category of it? I mean, I think the listeners would like to know, like, what's a like, what are you talking about here? Like, ah like, ah I mean, it's penis size, no work. I mean, no orgasms would be a con I think.
  • [00:39:03] Keith: No. why Why would that come up?
  • [00:39:05] Mike: ah You're right, it wouldn't. ah but But I'm just saying, like, maybe your penis is too big, like, it or not not not all that you said it was, or I don't know.
  • [00:39:09] Keith: Oh, right, right, right. Yeah,
  • [00:39:12] Mike: I don't know. It would just look, I'm trying to think of things a woman would say to hurt a man. That was actually where I was going with that.
  • [00:39:18] Keith: I had a relationship where ah you know we dated for a long time, and multiple years. And We had this conversation one day and we were talking about baseball.
  • [00:39:33] Keith: And baseball was a thing that I cared a lot more about back then than I do now.
  • [00:39:34] Mike: No.
  • [00:39:40] Keith: um And over the course of our long relationship, we had had what I thought were fairly in-depth conversations about like the concepts ah explained in Moneyball and the the shifting of front offices towards having more NBA people and like that's the sort of strategies that they had noticed and the way that the game was was changing to the three true outcomes.
  • [00:40:05] Keith: Anyway, blah, blah, blah.
  • [00:40:06] Mike: The three true outcomes.
  • [00:40:07] Keith: ah but Yeah, the three true outcomes are strikeout, home run, or a walk.
  • [00:40:09] Mike: I'm sorry.
  • [00:40:14] Mike: Okay. i I have to think about that one, but okay. So, so, okay.
  • [00:40:16] Keith: ah
  • [00:40:16] Mike: So, yeah.
  • [00:40:17] Keith: Yeah, baseball, the over every year, there's more but of those three things as a percentage of all outcomes than anything else. Anyway,
  • [00:40:23] Mike: that's why That's why they're losing viewers, by the way, but go on.
  • [00:40:25] Keith: It is. It is. And there's interesting conversations to be had about that.
  • [00:40:26] Mike: Yeah. It's so boring. Yeah.
  • [00:40:30] Keith: And I thought I was having those with my ex, but I don't know.
  • [00:40:30] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:40:32] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:40:34] Keith: I feel like maybe I've almost retconned this explanation, but we had this conversation shortly before we broke up where we were talking about baseball and a double play came up and it turned out
  • [00:40:45] Mike: Uh-oh.
  • [00:40:48] Keith: like She said something that implied she didn't know what a double play was.
  • [00:40:51] Mike: Oof.
  • [00:40:51] Keith: And look, there are lots of people that don't know what a double play is, particularly non-Americans or people who don't like baseball. But... It was totally unreasonable given the amount of baseball conversations and the seriousness of them and the depth of them that I thought we had been having for for years.
  • [00:41:06] Mike: That's awesome.
  • [00:41:10] Mike: That's kind of funny.
  • [00:41:10] Keith: And then I was like, holy shit, she's been nodding and smiling about this for, you know, and then like, what else has she been just nodding and smiling about?
  • [00:41:10] Mike: For years.
  • [00:41:20] Mike: So that did bother you.
  • [00:41:20] Keith: And, and I, yeah, I sort of realized that you know she probably just viewed me as sort of like a way too bloviating blowhard.
  • [00:41:30] Mike: Right.
  • [00:41:31] Keith: And you know she just tolerated that aspect of my personality because maybe there are other things she liked, like my penis size. And I thought i was, ah yeah, I guess you know it turned out to be the case that I was probably just talking at her and not really having any kind of fulfillment.
  • [00:41:39] Mike: Right.
  • [00:41:51] Keith: And I definitely had the experience where I thought that she wasn't like I was a little worried that she wasn't enough of a foil or like bringing enough to conversations. like I had that concern. But it was the concern was that like you know she didn't read enough. The concern wasn't that she didn't actually find my dissertations interesting. um And so there was like that big reveal there.
  • [00:42:12] Mike: Right. Yeah, that's interesting. Like, right, it actually, ah you started to question your own process because ah obviously you had just failed to detect something. I really thought that was going to go I thought you were going to say, look, she didn't know whether the runners could advance after an infield fly is called.
  • [00:42:29] Mike: or So I thought it was going some really technical thing, but a double play like that's deeply, deeply distressing.
  • [00:42:33] Keith: yeah
  • [00:42:36] Keith: yeah
  • [00:42:37] Mike: That's something a cat I would expect in your first game you watch that a person would learn that terminology and concept.
  • [00:42:42] Keith: it just it It just completely pulled back the veil in a really rev revelatory way where like I couldn't pretend that it was yeah anything other than that she was just nodding and smiling. And you know it couldn't have been just about baseball.
  • [00:42:57] Keith: like It must have been about just about everything. Because I do have like a sort of preachy, proselytizing way of speaking a lot of the time.
  • [00:43:05] Mike: Right.
  • [00:43:05] Keith: um and But like yeah, I don't know. like i don't It would yeah i would be like shocking if I found out that you were just nodding and smiling in our conversations over the decades. ah I don't think you are, but yes, there's something you need to tell me.
  • [00:43:17] Mike: no Well, there's another thing that's confusing about that, that which would be, well, what yeah what kind of person would be willing to do that? Like this person, whoever this or this woman was, should be, should the right reaction for her would have been to stop you and say, this is intolerable or something.
  • [00:43:34] Keith: right
  • [00:43:35] Mike: But the the fact that she was willing to do that for so long is just such a negative signal. It's like, well, what's wrong with you? Like, why why did why are you like this?
  • [00:43:42] Keith: Yeah. i've been It's interesting. i've I've been seeing someone sort of off and on ah over the last, i guess, year or so. And she...
  • [00:43:54] Keith: occasionally, like when i'll when I'll be talking to her, she'll be like, can we talk about something else? Or like I don't have the energy to deal with this right now. And like the first few times she did that, but like I was like really offended. And now I'm like a little bit less offended because like I'm realizing, yeah, what's what's that like Taylor Swift? like I'm the problem.
  • [00:44:10] Mike: yeah Yeah, I'm the problem.
  • [00:44:11] Keith: I'm the problem.
  • [00:44:11] Mike: It's me.
  • [00:44:11] Keith: It's me.
  • [00:44:12] Mike: Right.
  • [00:44:13] Keith: It's like, yeah, like I think I do sometimes just manically go on and on and on. So I i kind of like that her slapping me in the face with and being like, hey, shut the fuck up.
  • [00:44:23] Keith: ah
  • [00:44:23] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:44:24] Keith: like Yeah, like I like her honesty about that. like Yeah, it's a little bit offensive and hurtful, but it's better than the alternative, which is someone running a multi-year operation to like you know afraid to like hurt my ego, which as a man, of course, is overblown.
  • [00:44:32] Mike: Right.
  • [00:44:36] Mike: One. Yeah. and A thing that's interesting about that also is that a woman, I think, would be extremely this is this would be very relatable criticism that ah I think a woman would relate to. I think a woman would feel really miserable if she learned that a guy was just nodding through all her stuff that she'd said over the years, which which, by the way,
  • [00:44:53] Keith: Oh, yeah. And she didn't really care what but Susie thought about Johnny.
  • [00:44:57] Mike: Right. well i mean but but Which, by the way, like I think that happens a lot to women because it's ah well it goes both ways. I mean, if if a woman is very interested in like a certain kind of handbag or something, like guys just aren't going to be able to get into that.
  • [00:45:09] Mike: It's not going to.
  • [00:45:09] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:45:10] Mike: He's just going to. i mean, yeah, God help a guy whose significant other is interested in a certain kind of handbag. like I don't even know what guys do in that situation. It's tough.
  • [00:45:19] Keith: I think there are a lot of women like that. I mean, you you really see this in the like ah you know the arrangement community where these sort of... Is vapid the right word choice here? Like if you care about handbags and like...
  • [00:45:35] Mike: I would call it vapid, but I realized there are some, look, there are people that make, you know, millions of dollars selling handbags. And I mean, there's this whole thing, you know, so I don't, I think it's vapid, but like I could,
  • [00:45:44] Keith: preying on those women is fine to me, conceptually.
  • [00:45:46] Mike: Yeah, I could be impressed if a woman was really like, look, I know all the manufacturers. I know like the sewing systems they use. Like, OK, like i there's there's a way it could not be vapid. But I think in most cases it's just going to be, hey, did you see what Kim Kardashian was carrying?
  • [00:45:59] Mike: And like, that's pretty vapid, I think.
  • [00:46:00] Keith: Yeah. i Yeah.
  • [00:46:01] Mike: Mm
  • [00:46:01] Keith: I had this revelation with handbag. yeah I learned at some point that you can't copyright or trademark clothing or like bag designs. The only thing you can copyright are logos.
  • [00:46:10] Mike: hmm.
  • [00:46:12] Keith: So that's why like Louis Vuitton, it's like main thing on their bags is that fucking stupid LV logo all over it.
  • [00:46:18] Mike: Right.
  • [00:46:19] Keith: It's because you can't copy that. Now, of course, con artists still do. And people often have fake handbags, which I think is hilarious.
  • [00:46:23] Mike: Right.
  • [00:46:26] Keith: ah
  • [00:46:27] Mike: This is smart.
  • [00:46:27] Keith: like they
  • [00:46:27] Mike: I mean, you know.
  • [00:46:28] Keith: they they need to bet They need to be watermarked somehow with some sort of encrypted key. but um Because people are trying to flex. i fit like Can it really be the case that the Louis Vuitton purse is materially, maybe not materially, but even ostensibly more functional than REI purse?
  • [00:46:45] Mike: No.
  • [00:46:47] Mike: No, of course not.
  • [00:46:48] Keith: Okay, so they' so the only thing is the style.
  • [00:46:48] Mike: I mean, yeah.
  • [00:46:51] Keith: And it seems unlikely that the style is like some amazing like color combination because the LV thing is like that brown.
  • [00:46:56] Mike: it's not It's not even the style.
  • [00:46:58] Keith: It's brown with like the gold lettering, right? like It's not even aesthetically that great.
  • [00:47:01] Mike: Right. It's not the style.
  • [00:47:02] Keith: So it's just flexing money.
  • [00:47:02] Mike: Yeah, it's... it's Yes. It's correct.
  • [00:47:06] Keith: Okay. Okay.
  • [00:47:06] Mike: It's just status. That's right.
  • [00:47:07] Keith: do you remember that thing that came out around the time of Gmail or maybe even before it was millionaire email and you had to pay like $10,000 a month and people like, oh, that's the stupidest idea. But like, how is that different than flexing your stupid, less functional handbag that's expensive with like the logo splayed all over it?
  • [00:47:22] Mike: Well, it's the same. I mean, right. My view would be it's the same. I mean, that the, you know, the the most valuable thing in the world is sex with an attractive young woman.
  • [00:47:33] Mike: It's just the most valuable thing.
  • [00:47:34] Keith: To men, yeah.
  • [00:47:34] Mike: And,
  • [00:47:35] Keith: Well, maybe generally, yeah.
  • [00:47:36] Mike: Yeah, I would say in general, because a woman can extract value from like from the man. as This is the point is so the woman the and what the woman wants is status.
  • [00:47:41] Keith: right
  • [00:47:45] Mike: And so then she is displaying status with this handbag bullshit. And then men do it, too, by all buying Teslas or Rivians or whatever. But it's really just if i it's mostly to show the status to other people, which is mediated through the young women, which is the actual asset that matters here is the point.
  • [00:48:04] Keith: do you have any insight into like why you and i don't care about that at all like i bought this new jacket um And i I had a gift certificate, so I would never buy from this brand, but it's from Arcteryx. And they they you know it's like this puffer jacket. I'm wearing it now, actually.
  • [00:48:18] Keith: And I'm thinking about taping over the logo. like I'm sort of embarrassed that I'm wearing something that's this expensive. um
  • [00:48:25] Mike: I'm surprised you didn't steal it.
  • [00:48:25] Keith: And you you're you're even... ah have a longer story there, but I'll tell that offline. I did not steal it, um but it crossed my mind.
  • [00:48:32] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:48:35] Keith: ah Yeah, like neither you or I, we're both fairly wealthy, you much more than me. Like why, like you don't have any expensive cars. yeah Like like what what did we miss?
  • [00:48:47] Keith: Huh.
  • [00:48:48] Mike: Yeah, it's I think it's insecurity. um So it's a negative. it's That's the thing. That's what's ironic about the guy. i mean, it's actually in the culture, too, the notion that the middle-aged guy driving a Porsche is viewed culturally as insecure, but he still does it because that's how deep the insecurity runs.
  • [00:49:08] Mike: And that's how how um how much it matters to him to try to uplevel his status. And I think that... um i think Yeah, I mean, I think it's upbringing. It's probably genetic personality and so forth. Like some people just don't have insecurity like that.
  • [00:49:20] Mike: um And it's ironic. It's also ironic because women, I mean, it's just I think it's just a failure mode. Women will flock to the guy with the expensive car, even though what the woman wants is a not insecure man.
  • [00:49:34] Mike: And he's literally telling you that he's insecure.
  • [00:49:34] Keith: right he's like peacocking his insecurity
  • [00:49:37] Mike: And then they flock to him. That's right. That's exactly. And that's how I view it. i I don't think it can plausibly be viewed as, oh, I mean, I guess one caveat to that is, yeah, I mean, like a guy like Bill Gates is going to have super expensive stuff and he's not insecure, I assume, although he has some weird behaviors around women.
  • [00:49:55] Keith: yeah
  • [00:49:55] Mike: um But I don't believe I don't think it's plausible that he's peacocking that way. I think he just gets the stuff he likes because he's so rich. Yeah. But he ah but so men, I think, are emulating that.
  • [00:50:05] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [00:50:07] Mike: So there is a cast of man who has the expensive stuff who is not insecure. And so the men are also sort of emulating that and and and and hoping to make it confusing whether they're one of the people who's truly wealthy and can just afford it trivially or one of the insecure men.
  • [00:50:22] Mike: But the thing I would say to a woman, the thing I would say to my daughter is The guy with the like $5,000 watch is he's not the rich guy that's super secure. He's insecure because just statistically, yeah if you encounter him, he's not.
  • [00:50:34] Keith: yeah
  • [00:50:35] Mike: He's the wrong kind. Like there's too many frauds, too many pretenders.
  • [00:50:39] Keith: Well, and for $5,000 to be and so insignificant to you, you need to be, know, the amount of wealth required for that is is high.
  • [00:50:51] Mike: I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. ah For it to be totally insignificant where like maybe if you lost it, you wouldn't care. It's just going to be seldom that you would encounter somebody like that. So, but I mean, I think like this is something you and I've discussed on the podcast before that animals, like there's all these things in the animal kingdom.
  • [00:50:58] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [00:51:04] Mike: Actually, you sort of alerted me and I remember reading about this a bit. Like, that they will ah camouflage themselves to look like the other. I forget you told me some story about this.
  • [00:51:15] Mike: Like there are these animals that like they're really, really good at it.
  • [00:51:16] Keith: yeah
  • [00:51:18] Mike: And it's like, yeah, you can either, you know, be the animal that does the metaphorical equivalent of running marathons and is in really good shape. But there's this other thing you can do as the animal to pretend you're that.
  • [00:51:27] Keith: Right.
  • [00:51:28] Mike: And like, it turns out a lot of the animals do that. And like humans are no different.
  • [00:51:30] Keith: Right.
  • [00:51:31] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:51:32] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [00:51:35] Mike: So.
  • [00:51:35] Keith: That's a good analogy. um All right. Let's do this one topic before we before we close here.
  • [00:51:41] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:51:42] Keith: We've got about 10 minutes. All right. This person asks, do I sleep with a terminally ill married friend? I'm 42 and have been decades long friend with a 48 year old man. We were never close, just hung around in the same circles when younger and stayed in touch through socials. In fact, I haven't seen him physically for over 10 years.
  • [00:51:58] Keith: Recently, I learned he was terminally ill and I reached out to him to offer my sympathy. We got chatting and he admitted he would have liked to have dated me back in the day, but timings for us never worked out. Now he's married and I am recently single.
  • [00:52:09] Keith: He told me he had not had sex with his wife for three years and they were basically coexisting. I do not know his wife. We live in different states. He calls me every day, and boy, and we reminisce and talk about what we have done in our lives. But earlier this week, during an emotional moment, he asked me if I would sleep with him, essentially fulfill his dying wish.
  • [00:52:25] Keith: There's definitely a connection between us.
  • [00:52:26] Mike: kind of awesome
  • [00:52:27] Keith: Yeah, I know. but Have you seen the, um, curb your enthusiasm where, uh, Larry David, for some reason is dealing with a kid at the, at a hospital. Oh yeah. he has to bribe the kid for the funny reason, but it's not worth getting into.
  • [00:52:41] Keith: um And the kids wish to like keep to like not tell on Larry David is he wants to like see boobs and the kid is like 12.
  • [00:52:50] Mike: okay
  • [00:52:52] Keith: and So Larry gets an invite to the Playboy Mansion and he that does his best, but it doesn't work out anyway.
  • [00:52:57] Mike: No, it's nice of him.
  • [00:52:58] Keith: um Anyway. Yeah, he tries. All right. There's definitely a connection between us. And I think I actually want to go ahead and sleep with him. And also, I do think he is entitled to be selfish and only think about himself. I mean, what else has he got left?
  • [00:53:10] Mike: He could be lying about the illness. Let's just put that on the table, but go on.
  • [00:53:12] Keith: Could be. Yeah.
  • [00:53:14] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:53:14] Keith: I know I'm getting too invested and this isn't going to be just about sex. I guess I need to prepare myself for what's coming. So she has four edits here, but yeah, I just want to comment before I read the edits. Yeah. Like, look, this is an awful situation and it's not great that he's calling her every day. Like who, the who the fuck knows what's going on with his wife, but yeah.
  • [00:53:37] Keith: you know his wife has, you know yeah, maybe he was like one of these relationships we were thinking about earlier where you know they'd been together forever, the sex wasn't great, and now he has you know cancer or whatever, and he's about to die, and you know she's just...
  • [00:53:50] Mike: I don't i I I think it's decently likely that he's not sick because couple things. One, i mean, you can read the edits, but a couple things. One, I think that if you have a terminal illness that would lower your libido, I know it would lower mine.
  • [00:54:05] Mike: um
  • [00:54:05] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:54:06] Mike: I'd be really hard. Maybe he's on some anti-anxiety medication that like makes it so he doesn't care. Or maybe he's just like really he's very British about it. OK, rather rubbing dirt in it.
  • [00:54:15] Keith: ah
  • [00:54:17] Mike: And the second thing is I don't know if as a woman you'd want, well, I mean, I'm not sure his parts would work, but also like he might be kind of gross because he's got a terminal disease or it could be things wrong with his body.
  • [00:54:29] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:54:30] Mike: And like, it's worth considering whether, you know, I guess I'd need to know what illness and stuff, but usually illnesses do things to you.
  • [00:54:35] Keith: Yeah. All right.
  • [00:54:37] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:54:37] Keith: Let me, let me read the edit just to get the facts on the table. Edit one. Yes, he is really ill. He has brain cancer. This is not a ploy for him to sleep with women. Um, Sure. So he has brain cancer. I just strongly disagree with her analysis that this is not a ploy for him to sleep with women.
  • [00:54:50] Mike: Well, there's some really gross stuff can happen when you have brain cancer, particularly maybe when you're orgasming. Like he he could die.
  • [00:54:56] Keith: and Jesus, he's going to have a stroke.
  • [00:54:58] Mike: he could like have a stroke. He could like get into a seizure. But OK, like I'm not sure I'd want to be like giving orgasms to a guy with brain cancer.
  • [00:55:05] Keith: Okay, fine.
  • [00:55:07] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:55:07] Keith: Fine. I just want to litigate whether...
  • [00:55:09] Mike: OK. OK.
  • [00:55:09] Keith: i mean, it just is a ploy for him to sleep with women.
  • [00:55:14] Keith: like It's fine that he has brain cancer and that he's leveraging it to try to get laid here, but like her saying it's not a ploy for him to sleep with women.
  • [00:55:14] Mike: guy
  • [00:55:20] Keith: like He's using this woman's guilt to like cultivate an emotional and hopefully physical relationship with her. so yeah i just it it's i mean It's literally a ploy.
  • [00:55:28] Mike: ah She wants to have sex. and She wants to do it. And women often it's, you know, this she's getting caught up in the story.
  • [00:55:31] Keith: Fine. She's retrofitting ethics to suit what she wants to do.
  • [00:55:36] Mike: don't know.
  • [00:55:36] Keith: suit what she wants to do
  • [00:55:36] Mike: It's okay. That's fine. I mean, women like women get into like stupid novels about situations like this, you know, like they, they like emotional stuff.
  • [00:55:43] Keith: Yeah. All right. let me let me do it Let me do edits two through four. Our conversations have never been sexual until last week when he was having a particularly bad day and he broke down and told me. He just broke down. He's like, look, I have something to confess.
  • [00:55:57] Keith: I just want to fuck you. like yeah Whatever. all right do ah Edit three. ah He had made multiple attempts to sleep with his life wife, but she rejects him. The sex stopped before he knew he was ill, and they've slept in separate rooms long before the sex stopped. He has not had sex with anyone else in 20 years. I trust him on this.
  • [00:56:11] Keith: kind Yeah, maybe. But look.
  • [00:56:15] Mike: I think if you haven't, I think if, okay, let's forget about the terminal illness for one second.
  • [00:56:19] Keith: Yeah, you're going to say the same thing as me, but go ahead.
  • [00:56:20] Mike: I think he, hang he hasn't had sex in 20 years. Is that what she said?
  • [00:56:24] Keith: Yeah. that's what she said
  • [00:56:25] Mike: I think that as a man, if you haven't had sex in amount of time with your partner, you can have sex with other people. i don't i think i think that's like I think there's like an implicit... like like the like there There used to be a a word for a term for this like back when you used to have to give evidence for why you were getting divorced. and It was like sort of alienation of and of affection or something.
  • [00:56:47] Keith: yeah
  • [00:56:47] Mike: and's a I think you could sue... you Here's what it was. A wife could sue the mistress because she'd taken taken his affection away. I think there's some equivalent here. like There's some... It's not even that it's an obligation. It's just there's some process element to being in a relationship. And if like you're not having assuming there's no physical barriers, if you're not having sex with some cadence, I think that the relationship has ended.
  • [00:57:10] Mike: you see what saying? So I think actually 20 years, 20 years, I think he's under no obligation to his wife.
  • [00:57:11] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:57:16] Mike: And like, I'm sure his wife would say, oh, no, he is. Well, she's just fucking wrong. I just disagree. Like if he wants to go to a prostitute or if he wants to go on seeking arrangement or whatever, he's you now got terminal cancer.
  • [00:57:21] Keith: Yeah. i
  • [00:57:25] Mike: But I actually think like five years ago, he could have done that. And if she complained, he should just be like tough cookies. Like this, you what you're doing is absurd. I'm assuming also that it's her fault ah or mutual. or Like it's not, you know.
  • [00:57:35] Keith: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I was going to largely agree with you, but yeah, just issue the caveats that are like, yeah, like he needs to
  • [00:57:38] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:57:41] Keith: have tried to initiate.
  • [00:57:43] Mike: yeah
  • [00:57:43] Keith: you know And you know he can't be like abusive or whatever. But yeah, like you know setting those things aside.
  • [00:57:48] Mike: and or like or Or put a different way. like he's he is interested like ah She's the reason they're not having sex. In other words, she if she if she initiated, he would do it.
  • [00:58:00] Mike: Right.
  • [00:58:00] Keith: Right.
  • [00:58:00] Mike: That's whether you've tried or not. i'm not sure if it's important. the The question is who would reject whom? And everyone knows in relationship who that is.
  • [00:58:06] Keith: Right. right
  • [00:58:08] Mike: Like, you know, that would just be your your um you're lying if you say you don't know who that is OK, so if it's assuming she's the one rejecting that she's chosen, even if he hadn't initiated, she has an obligation to if she wants him not to fuck other people, but she doesn't have to have sex with him. It's just the like she's then giving up her exclusive access to him, in my opinion.
  • [00:58:29] Mike: Anyway.
  • [00:58:29] Keith: Yeah. ah Yeah. i think it's hard to argue with that. There's.
  • [00:58:35] Mike: Same the other direction, by the way, if a man like just has no sex drive, I think the woman after some period of time is totally justified having some other guy.
  • [00:58:43] Keith: Oh yeah. This is not uniquely directional men to women.
  • [00:58:43] Mike: Yeah. Of course.
  • [00:58:45] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:58:45] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:58:46] Keith: Yeah. Yep. I agree. Um,
  • [00:58:49] Mike: OK, but back to the terminal cancer, there's one more edit, right?
  • [00:58:51] Keith: and Yeah, the for that it's boring. He has many wishes he wants to fill.
  • [00:58:54] Mike: OK.
  • [00:58:54] Keith: He just can't do most of them due to financial reasons, whatever. All right. So, ah yeah, I think it's fine
  • [00:58:58] Mike: they
  • [00:59:03] Keith: ethically if she wants to sleep with this man. um I just think that she shouldn't. i think that I think she's falling in love with him.
  • [00:59:08] Mike: Really? Why?
  • [00:59:12] Mike: Well, that's probably already happened, right? So like, you think it's better for her if she cares about him, it's better for her to never have sex with him or to have sex with him like three times?
  • [00:59:14] Keith: Yeah, you're right.
  • [00:59:21] Keith: She cares about him.
  • [00:59:21] Mike: think it's better to have sex three times.
  • [00:59:22] Keith: why Why does he matter? He's going to be dead in a minute anyway.
  • [00:59:26] Mike: Well, you said she was falling in love with him.
  • [00:59:26] Keith: like what what well She should try to maximize the rest of her life. and If she sleeps with this dying man and like falls for him further, than like yeah it's probably going to like knock her out of like reasonable commission for years.
  • [00:59:40] Keith: and
  • [00:59:40] Mike: Okay, but there's also the risk that she doesn't and that that causes her some emotional problem. Like, probably, probably look...
  • [00:59:45] Keith: oh yeah she' She'll always be trying to find ah similar attraction or something.
  • [00:59:50] Mike: Yeah, probably having deep conversations with the guy in this situation itself was a mistake. Like, she should have basically been like, this doesn't sound like a good situation to get involved in.
  • [01:00:00] Keith: yeah Yeah, but that ship has sailed.
  • [01:00:01] Mike: But now now she's there. Yeah.
  • [01:00:03] Keith: yeah
  • [01:00:04] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I but OK, so you think that it's better for her not to do it. I think it I think it's unclear. Like she might it it might be worse for her not to do it, it depending on how strongly she feels.
  • [01:00:18] Keith: Yeah. I think the main thing she's wondering is, what are the ethics of this?
  • [01:00:20] Mike: um
  • [01:00:23] Keith: And I think we both green light on the ethics.
  • [01:00:27] Mike: Yeah, I don't think I think it's yeah, I don't think it. Oh, so the ethical question would be have to do with his wife.
  • [01:00:35] Keith: I guess, yeah.
  • [01:00:35] Mike: Yeah, I mean, let me. Yeah, it's you know how there's like common law marriage, right?
  • [01:00:39] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:00:40] Mike: It's like this idea. And like, I think it's only valid in like Tennessee and Kentucky or something where like if you just live in the same mobile home with someone long enough, you're married. Well, I think there's common law divorce and he and his wife are common law divorced.
  • [01:00:51] Keith: Yeah, I think that's well put.
  • [01:00:52] Mike: And so it's just like, it's just stupid. It's like, you so that's not, there's no, like there isn't that, that there's no ethics there. um Yeah. Like if, yeah, if they were actually like a normal couple, then yeah, I would say, yeah, like if I had terminal cancer, I'm in a normal couple and there's this girl that was like a cheerleader in high school that I always fetishized.
  • [01:01:09] Mike: There isn't, but if there were, and I wanted to have sex with her, like that would be unethical. I still probably would do it.
  • [01:01:15] Keith: Wait, there wasn't a girl in your high school that you know you fantasized about sleeping with a zillion times?
  • [01:01:25] Mike: Not really. And and and if they're...
  • [01:01:26] Keith: Jeez.
  • [01:01:27] Mike: and and I mean, like look, you know there were girls that were more and less attractive, but like i don't i don't I certainly don't fetishize them now because my high school is full of rednecks.
  • [01:01:29] Keith: I guess...
  • [01:01:33] Keith: Oh my god. Yeah, I went i went to... I think my 20-year reunion, which was, ah yeah, I guess would have been when I was 37.
  • [01:01:38] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:01:42] Keith: yeah, yeah there was wasn't much, look, don't know how to say this nicely.
  • [01:01:49] Mike: Yeah. Slim pickings.
  • [01:01:50] Keith: There wasn't much talent left on the field. um
  • [01:01:53] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:01:54] Keith: And yeah, I'm sure it's only gotten worse. um But yeah, I mean, definitely, i don't know, maybe it was like half the girls in my in my class. Like, yeah, I was just horny.
  • [01:02:05] Mike: ah Right, but there wouldn't be. Yeah, I'm not sure if I were trying to like identify who I would have sex with in this situation, it wouldn't be that. i really don't think my mind would be on sex, but ah if it were,
  • [01:02:17] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:02:17] Mike: ah i know I'm not sure how however however it would process who who I would be a propositioning. Yeah.
  • [01:02:25] Keith: Yeah. One of the top, one of the top responses is you don't have months to sit on this. The libido decreases so, so damn fast after treatment. So.
  • [01:02:34] Mike: I would think it would decrease the the moment the doctor came in and said you have a terminal diagnosis. I think my libido would go to zero and that would stay there. Pretty sure.
  • [01:02:43] Keith: um setting aside whatever chemical effects are imparted by the but the chemo.
  • [01:02:48] Mike: The chemical effects i think I could imagine might help because maybe you'd feel like you're going to be cured or something, although it sounds like he's not that's not possible, which makes you wonder why he's bothering with chemo.
  • [01:02:58] Keith: I think chemo does things to your body that makes it hard to have a sex drive.
  • [01:02:59] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:03:03] Keith: Maybe it lowers your testosterone or something.
  • [01:03:05] Mike: Sure.
  • [01:03:05] Keith: I don't know. I'm not sure.
  • [01:03:06] Mike: I buy that.
  • [01:03:06] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:03:07] Mike: I'm sure it does. Well, it just I mean, it just stresses you when you when you stress an organism, they stop wanting to reproduce for obvious reasons.
  • [01:03:12] Keith: yeah
  • [01:03:13] Mike: It's not not um adaptive to want to reproduce when you're stressed.
  • [01:03:17] Keith: Yeah. We'll link to this in the in the show notes, but yeah, the responses from the OP are kind of depressing.
  • [01:03:25] Mike: No.
  • [01:03:26] Keith: So you can read further if you're interested.
  • [01:03:28] Mike: He'll be dead soon, though, so that's the bright side. Oh, wait, it's the woman that said it. Sorry, so not the man. Anyway, whatever.
  • [01:03:34] Keith: Yeah. um All right. Well, on that cheery note, that will do it for this episode of Your Mileage May Vary. You can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod at gmail.com. We pay $10 for any feedback and we like answering questions on the air. So let us know if you don't want us to use your question on the air and we'll respond by email.
  • [01:03:52] Keith: Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week on Your Mileage May Vary.