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Episode 202: Situationship Dynamics, Sleep Sex Logistics, Brunch Withheld, Toothbrush Roulette, Semen as Metric

Team YMMV | 4-11-2025 | 1:02:58

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In this episode of Your Mileage May Vary, Keith and Mike begin by considering the ethics of emotional honesty. They discuss whether withholding one’s emotional state constitutes a lie, and how much emotional transparency is required in a functional relationship. Keith argues that stoicism, while flawed, is preferable to emotional overexposure.

The conversation quickly turns to situationships, particularly cases where men engage in sustained sexual encounters while deliberately avoiding commitment. The hosts propose several mental models to explain this behavior, ranging from embarrassment to status differentials. Keith draws on the film Bridesmaids for empirical support, which is as close to peer-reviewed literature as the podcast is likely to get. Mike admits to avoiding brunch invitations for fear that a partner might meet Keith and immediately break up with him.

Later, the two revisit the topic of sleep sex, a long-dormant segment of the show’s canon. A Reddit post prompts speculation on the biomechanics of unconscious consent, as well as the engineering challenges of nocturnal vaginal access. Keith is skeptical of the feasibility, while Mike proposes an alternative strategy involving the mouth. As always, they are more concerned with logistical plausibility than moral implications.

Finally, the hosts explore the emotional valence of semen volume and toothbrush sanitation. Keith describes himself as “probably within a standard deviation of the mean,” which is apparently a good thing. A detailed anecdote involving mistaken toothbrush identity is shared, regrettably. The episode concludes with Keith reflecting on his lizard brain and Mike wondering about electro-ejaculators—standard fare for a podcast about relationships.

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00:01] Keith: Hello, and welcome to Your Mileage May Vary. We talk about sex and relationships with frankness that is often controversial, but mostly in good faith. I'm Keith. My co-host is Mike. Hi, Mike.
  • [00:00:11] Mike: Hello, Keith.
  • [00:00:14] Keith: What's new with you?
  • [00:00:16] Mike: ah Let's see. um I've learned that ah even though I try to be very honest, sort of in factual things that I tell people that maybe I'm still being not fully honest because I don't reveal all my emotions to people.
  • [00:00:31] Mike: And then I was thinking, do I do I have to do that? Is that like part of being honest? Do you do you feel obligated? with another person, not only to be honest about like what's happening sort of transactionally or objectively, but also to say, oh, and this made me 7% sad.
  • [00:00:44] Mike: Do you feel any sort of pressure to do that?
  • [00:00:47] Keith: No, I think if anything, I feel negative pressure to do that.
  • [00:00:51] Mike: Okay, so you want...
  • [00:00:52] Keith: I try to keep my emotions close to the vest.
  • [00:00:56] Mike: But would you... Okay, let me ask you this. Would you... So, like, there's this basic idea of trying to be honest... that we've gathered from various cultural things that see that sort of makes your life easier and better. ah Do you do do you actually lie about your emotional state or would you not do that?
  • [00:01:06] Keith: who
  • [00:01:09] Mike: Is is that where you draw the line?
  • [00:01:13] Keith: Like if somebody interrogated me about my emotional state?
  • [00:01:15] Mike: Sure, sure. Or let's say you're in a situation where fabricating an emotional state might serve to your advantage.
  • [00:01:17] Keith: Huh.
  • [00:01:23] Keith: i don't know I strongly prefer not to lie. ah
  • [00:01:27] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:01:28] Keith: but i tactically do in certain situations, but it's almost always conscious. like I've made the decision that lying by commission or omission is ah better than the ah upside of being honest at all times.
  • [00:01:46] Mike: Okay. ah but but But you would not, let's see, ah not revealing your emotional state to people might be a live omission.
  • [00:01:55] Keith: I suppose. I guess if I'm saying something that strongly implies I feel different than I actually feel, then that would be the case, yeah.
  • [00:02:04] Mike: Okay. All right. But this doesn't like strike you as a thing that you feel like you ought to do differently. You feel good about your
  • [00:02:10] Keith: Well, I think men in general are a little bit too stoic, and that can... lead to various negative consequences at times.
  • [00:02:21] Keith: But you know on the other hand, I think that women in general are sometimes not stoic enough. And so, yeah, like I think I would prefer that I am too stoic rather than the other, because being too stoic is easier to adjust and compensate for, I think.
  • [00:02:38] Mike: Okay. Yeah, it's probably not that interesting. That's just something that I was discussing with somebody earlier today. um
  • [00:02:45] Keith: Are you going to be softer in your dealings with other humans now?
  • [00:02:46] Mike: so No, I don't think so.
  • [00:02:49] Keith: Okay. Yeah, I didn't think so.
  • [00:02:49] Mike: I don't think so. But it was just a, it was just a interesting, it was an interesting wrinkle in the being honest thing.
  • [00:02:52] Keith: was thought-provoking.
  • [00:02:56] Mike: It's like, well, you, what's objectively true is not exactly what people are always looking for.
  • [00:03:01] Keith: Right.
  • [00:03:01] Mike: Okay. So I have another thing, which is, let's say a woman has the experience of men wanting to have sex, kind of meet up, but not really go into a relationship.
  • [00:03:17] Mike: Okay, so so basically a woman has difficulty crossing that hurdle of actually being in a relationship. And it's and and let's let's assume it's the...
  • [00:03:26] Keith: Okay. These are typically... but Go ahead.
  • [00:03:30] Mike: Well, I was just going to say, it's let's let's assume it's the man... i mean, I think we for sake of argument here, we can simplify things and say the woman wants to be in a relationship, which is going to be typically the case.
  • [00:03:41] Mike: So it's a man who is <unk> imposing obstacles to prevent that from happening. What were you going ask?
  • [00:03:48] Keith: I was going to say this just sounds like what is typically called friends with benefits or a situationship. It's not.
  • [00:03:53] Mike: Sure. We can use those words. Sure.
  • [00:03:55] Keith: Yeah. All right.
  • [00:03:56] Mike: um So so i had i was able to come up with i have sort of a mental model for why that might happen from my own reading as well as personal experience. the first Let me just get out of the way the first situation where I think that might happen. And that's simply where the guy has another relationship that is either open or hidden, like meaning he she knows about it or doesn't know about it.
  • [00:04:19] Mike: And so the thing he's worried about is The woman ah essentially his fear is the woman revealing her existence to the other woman. Right. And so he wants to minimize the amount of um intimacy in their relationship or whatever it is. And they're friends with benefits thing to avoid the other person finding out.
  • [00:04:40] Mike: That's I think that's a pretty obvious situation where a guy might do this.
  • [00:04:40] Keith: to a
  • [00:04:42] Mike: Right.
  • [00:04:43] Keith: To avoid doxing himself accidentally by getting too close.
  • [00:04:46] Mike: Doxing or just or just like I'm imagining a situation where if this woman thinks she's in a relationship with him and then they break up or something, she's going to go nuts and notify the other woman or something like to the extent that he can keep his keep it at arm's length where they're just having sex.
  • [00:05:04] Mike: Maybe in some hotel he hooks up or whatever. Like, yeah, like imagine a married guy who goes to another city and has sex with a woman there occasionally.
  • [00:05:14] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:05:14] Mike: you know He probably wants to not he wants to keep it a FWB situation. He doesn't want her to get ideas of being in a relationship with him to avoid this risk. That's eight that's one reason I could think of for a man doing this.
  • [00:05:26] Keith: Sure. i mean another i guess a corollary to that is he may not want to tell girl number two about girl number one because girl number two may want a relationship with him. So even though they're currently in a friends with benefits situationship, if she knew for sure that he was married, for example, ah she may no longer be in and interested in said situationship.
  • [00:05:52] Mike: Okay. So I think that's reasonable. There is a second case that I think is probably the more touchy one of these. and Let me give you, there were a couple things that I came up with for this.
  • [00:06:02] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:06:02] Mike: First, the man compares his value to the woman's, and if his is way higher,
  • [00:06:02] Keith: Hmm.
  • [00:06:08] Mike: He won't feel like he needs to compromise with her to keep her around. And secondly, relatedly, if the man is ashamed to be with the woman because he views her as having lower status, he will not want to incorporate with her into his life for fear basically of being mocked by others, friends, family, relatives, etc. So this is a single man.
  • [00:06:29] Mike: Maybe he's dating other people, maybe not, but he hasn't committed anybody. He's not in an exclusive arrangement, so he's he's not um he's not like misleading anybody. But he has these reasons to basically keep this particular woman at arm's length because of this value perceived value differential. And my thought would be...
  • [00:06:47] Mike: The value differential would be the classic one typically, which is the woman's attractiveness and youth put up against the man's status and wealth and maybe attractiveness as well.
  • [00:06:58] Mike: That was sort of my thought process. what What do you think about that as an explanation or a mental model?
  • [00:07:03] Keith: Yeah, I mean, there's a little bit of game theory here, which is something like, even if he thinks he can do better, ah because he thinks his you know the aggregation of all the things that comprise attractiveness for him exceeds what it does for her, can't.
  • [00:07:11] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:07:27] Mike: right And i think it would have to be a material delta.
  • [00:07:30] Keith: he
  • [00:07:31] Mike: right It wouldn't just be a tiny am amount. like This would be enough that he felt like he needed to keep her at arm's length. right that That it could be its potential embarrassment for him.
  • [00:07:36] Keith: right
  • [00:07:37] Mike: Go on.
  • [00:07:38] Keith: but But even if he did why not try to be ah you know you know fully engaged with with the girl he thinks is uglier compared to him? Because what's what's the downside?
  • [00:07:50] Keith: right like You may as well try because keeping her at arm's length...
  • [00:07:54] Mike: Well, I mean,
  • [00:07:56] Keith: I mean, look, I think the most common case is something like the man doesn't want to waste the opportunity cost on her. the opportunity cost of spending time with her versus trying to find another person or indeed being with another person.
  • [00:08:12] Keith: And so he just doesn't want... like He probably, if if he had his druthers completely, would just... you know schedule ah you know appointments at 8 p.m. to 10 p.m.
  • [00:08:25] Keith: you know twice a week where he can have sex with her.
  • [00:08:27] Mike: To have sex with her. Right.
  • [00:08:28] Keith: Right. And then you don't do everything else. But yeah, to the extent that he's you know giving her the time of day at all, it's because he knows that she wouldn't tolerate that.
  • [00:08:39] Keith: That she will tolerate somebody clearly keeping somebody... like That she tolerates him clearly keeping him her at arm's length anyways already pathetic on her part ah but I think a lot of women I think less women fall into the situation where the guy is literally just calling her over for sex although I just saw the movie Bridesmaids again have you seen have you seen that movie the Christian wig yeah so the
  • [00:08:59] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:09:02] Mike: Okay. I have seen it. Yes. It's a pretty good movie.
  • [00:09:05] Keith: Yeah, so Kristen Wiig, I think in the first scene of the movie, is in bed with Jon Hamm. And, ah you know, it's clear heat drives yeah he drives a Porsche, and, you know, he's a good-looking guy.
  • [00:09:10] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:09:13] Mike: He's the guy with the Porsche or something. Yeah.
  • [00:09:17] Keith: And I think this was around the time that Mad Men had just ended. So, you know, he had a lot of... I mean, he's not playing that character. But, yeah, he's supposed to be, you know, the sexy ah sexy guy.
  • [00:09:24] Mike: A lot of pull.
  • [00:09:29] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:09:29] Keith: And she's in bed with him and she tries to invite her, invite him to her friend's wedding.
  • [00:09:40] Keith: And yeah, he's, he, he demurs easily. Like, no, I'm not interested in that. And then she's kind of hanging around. I might remember conflating a couple different scenes here, but he says, I don't want to be a dick here, but I just really want you to leave.
  • [00:09:55] Keith: Like he's giving her short answers and like, but yeah, like, And that movie shows situationship where, yeah, she's basically just booty called at 8pm. She goes over and fucks him.
  • [00:10:06] Keith: And he didn't even want her to sleep over, but I think he didn't want to fight it.
  • [00:10:08] Mike: Isn't it like, is there?
  • [00:10:10] Keith: So she slept over and he at least expected her to leave immediately in the morning.
  • [00:10:14] Mike: Yeah, I feel like there's a scene in there where maybe maybe i'm I'm imagining this. This is my own fantasy life. ah But he like she's giving him head. She swallows his cum and then he immediately kicks her out or something. Doesn't that happen in that movie?
  • [00:10:28] Mike: Like it's it's pretty brutal.
  • [00:10:30] Keith: a
  • [00:10:31] Mike: Something like that happens where it's just shes she's just an apparatus for him to get orgasms from. I think that's a thing.
  • [00:10:37] Keith: Yeah, that first scene might start with them actually having sex and him nutting. And then, you know, they're in the like pillow talk afterwards.
  • [00:10:42] Mike: And then just.
  • [00:10:44] Keith: And and shortly thereafter, and she she says a couple of things.
  • [00:10:47] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:10:48] Keith: He's giving one word answers. And then, you know, he's like, look, i don't want to be a dick here, but I just want you to leave. And, you know, it's a caricature.
  • [00:10:55] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
  • [00:10:57] Keith: of a situation. But, you know, I do think some women find themselves in the, like in the really pathetic circumstance where, yeah, they're just being called over to be a concubine, which is sad.
  • [00:11:06] Mike: Right. I mean, presumably my mentor,
  • [00:11:07] Keith: Women should not do that. But yeah, like I, you know, a level better than that is the friends with benefits thing where like, at least he'd like to take you out to dinner privately if he knows there's no risk of running into anybody he knows.
  • [00:11:18] Mike: right well okay so my my mental model for the woman is i'm just flattening it i realize there could be lots but i'm flattening it into she's hoping that it could develop into a relationship she's lonely something like that just just because
  • [00:11:29] Keith: but she's not She's hoping ah subconsciously, but you know when she goes to talk when she talks to her girlfriends at brunch the next day and they all tell her that she's being a moron, she she consciously is aware that what she's doing is stupid, but subconsciously she can't stop herself.
  • [00:11:45] Mike: Okay. Yeah, it's something. but And she can't stop herself because she's hoping. She's optimistic. There's some hoped-for positive end of the road there.
  • [00:11:52] Keith: It's tricky.
  • [00:11:54] Mike: Maybe.
  • [00:11:54] Keith: It's tricky.
  • [00:11:54] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:11:55] Keith: Yeah, her conscious self would not would admit that there's no hope. And that even if there were, why would you even want to be with someone who's so dismissive of you?
  • [00:11:59] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:12:06] Mike: Okay, so this is maybe a result of loneliness.
  • [00:12:06] Keith: Her subconscious self is like...
  • [00:12:08] Mike: Loneliness.
  • [00:12:09] Keith: ah yeah Her subconscious self is on... it It's like when, you know... they'll the lonely drunk guy calls the girl that he knows is crazy. Like he, he knows it's a bad idea.
  • [00:12:18] Mike: Okay, fair enough.
  • [00:12:19] Keith: There's like some downside risk, but like, you know, he wants to get his dick wet and, you know, girls, girls aren't looking to get their nipples wet.
  • [00:12:23] Mike: Right, he's going to get sex, right. and
  • [00:12:25] Keith: They're looking to get, you know, emotional fulfillment or something, but yeah, it's similarly delusional.
  • [00:12:30] Mike: Okay. So you could just view it as she's making a mistake, broadly. That's fine.
  • [00:12:34] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:12:35] Mike: Okay, but you just said, what you just said there, I think, is goes along with my... general mental model, which is that the guy might take her out, might do something with her, have sex, but he's not going to take her to brunch with his friends.
  • [00:12:46] Mike: And that's because he's embarrassed, right?
  • [00:12:51] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:12:51] Mike: There's something about her that's not up to his level, and he's basically hiding her. Like, if if she were at his level, see, I think there's a big social dimension to this, is the point. Like, I don't think men are just looking at a woman in complete isolation and saying, well, do I like this person or not? I think they're asking themselves, well, would my friends approve? Would they make fun of me?
  • [00:13:09] Mike: ah Would they would my parents approve with my coworkers? but There's all these things they're imagining in their head. And if the woman isn't up to snuff, then this he's not going to just say like the good honorable guy like you, Keith, would just say, honey, I'm not interested and and break up with her. But a lot of guys will schedule the sex from 7 to 9 p.m., like you said, because they can.
  • [00:13:28] Mike: Right.
  • [00:13:29] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:13:29] Mike: That's my thought.
  • [00:13:31] Keith: Yeah. I think they are avoiding the brunch with friends because they're embarrassed but for the most part. There's some caveats to that. Like they could be, if they're really kind, they might be avoiding the lunch with friends because they, they're worried that ah she'll take that to mean and that the relationship is progressing forward or something.
  • [00:13:56] Mike: Oh, but it would be. But ultimately, OK, so this is the other thing I'm interested in is do you have another? So my mental model is basically a status differential, like other than the man is in a relationship. I've got the man's relationship. I've got the status differential. Do you think there's like another mental model for this where a man would do this? Like, I don't really believe, for example, OK, I could if you're a member of Led Zeppelin and it's 1974. OK, fine. You're just like so awesome. But again, that's a status differential. You've basically decided not to have a relationship. But I think in almost all cases,
  • [00:14:24] Mike: The man can be persuaded into a relationship if there's not one of these two things going on. The first one, of course, he's in a relationship already. So there you go.
  • [00:14:32] Keith: Right, yeah.
  • [00:14:33] Mike: But and but I mean, is there can you is there another sort of thing that comes to your mind of like a situation, another way that to aside from the guy being insane or schizophrenic or something?
  • [00:14:33] Keith: He's married, for example.
  • [00:14:43] Mike: but But, you know, is there another kind of generally normal situation?
  • [00:14:45] Keith: Yeah, I guess, okay, so so there's just to like put this in my own words, okay, you've been on
  • [00:14:51] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:14:52] Keith: you've been seeing a guy for about a month. you know you've You've hung out seven or eight times. you' You're sexually active with each other.
  • [00:14:59] Mike: Yep.
  • [00:14:59] Keith: And ah he mentions that ah you know he needs to go to brunch tomorrow. And she asks, oh, ah can I come with you? And he says no. And you're trying, you know, the woman is now in her mind trying to figure out why. i think one very, you know, likely thing is, yeah, he has ah girlfriend or a partner and yeah, she's just the side piece.
  • [00:15:24] Keith: another is this massive status difference.
  • [00:15:25] Mike: yep
  • [00:15:28] Keith: And I think, uh, or small status difference, whatever yeah he perceives, he's embarrassed.
  • [00:15:33] Mike: I suspect it has to be a relatively big status difference to get this behavior, but go on.
  • [00:15:33] Keith: Um,
  • [00:15:37] Mike: Maybe I'm wrong.
  • [00:15:39] Keith: Yeah, at least for me, um i get a little bit of value of, you know, bringing somebody to brunch with my friends just because, you know, they kind of like seeing what I'm up to.
  • [00:15:39] Mike: Like.
  • [00:15:50] Keith: And they're not necessarily judging me on, you know, whether she's going to win a Pulitzer in the future, right?
  • [00:15:50] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:15:55] Keith: Like she's...
  • [00:15:55] Mike: Oh, but would you bring her if she was in some important way unattractive?
  • [00:16:02] Keith: Hmm. Probably not.
  • [00:16:05] Mike: yeah that's what I figured.
  • [00:16:06] Keith: ah so
  • [00:16:06] Mike: And there could be several different ways.
  • [00:16:07] Keith: So yeah, guess this can be comprised of a number of different things.
  • [00:16:08] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:16:10] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:16:11] Mike: Or let's say let's say she's way, way older than you.
  • [00:16:11] Keith: ah Yeah. So yeah, yeah people can be embarrassed for different reasons.
  • [00:16:14] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:16:14] Keith: Right. Sure. Yeah. Whatever.
  • [00:16:15] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:16:15] Keith: And then, yeah, I mean, I think there are some other slivers of the pie chart that are left, but I think the first two, which is they're partnered up and ah number two is they're embarrassed.
  • [00:16:20] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:16:25] Keith: I think that's probably 90 plus percent of the whole pie chart. And then there's other things like the one I mentioned, which is yeah, he doesn't want to signal to her that, um, she's, uh,
  • [00:16:41] Keith: you know, progressing in the relationship.
  • [00:16:41] Mike: in the running.
  • [00:16:43] Keith: Yeah. He, did he knows that, that, that the woman will take it as a serious sign of, of something.
  • [00:16:44] Mike: Right.
  • [00:16:48] Keith: And he's worried about that.
  • [00:16:49] Mike: But that in this case, since you're excluding your since you're separating that from the embarrassment angle or the having another relationship angle, that has to be actually a guy who's just decided, you know, maybe his wife died three months ago and he's like, you know, I'm actually not going to get in a relationship for nine months just as i don't think I should.
  • [00:16:49] Keith: And,
  • [00:17:04] Keith: Right.
  • [00:17:07] Mike: I could see that. OK, it's and going to be unusual.
  • [00:17:08] Keith: Look, it's a ah small piece of the pie, man.
  • [00:17:11] Mike: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [00:17:12] Keith: um
  • [00:17:12] Mike: Anything else?
  • [00:17:14] Keith: i give I can't think of anything.
  • [00:17:16] Mike: Puts you on the spot.
  • [00:17:17] Keith: i i reserve the right to you know come up with something ah later, but yeah, I can't think of anything else right now.
  • [00:17:22] Mike: is this Is this something you've done to a person?
  • [00:17:22] Keith: You?
  • [00:17:24] Mike: I i have done this in the fairly long ago past. And I think in each case where I did this, well, actually, I know in each case where i did this, it was the embarrassment angle.
  • [00:17:35] Mike: It was 100% every time because I was like, oh, yeah, like I'm horny. I want to have sex with somebody. This person's okay, but not like there's it's not going to go well if I introduce them around.
  • [00:17:48] Keith: Oh, I thought of a new reason.
  • [00:17:49] Mike: Yeah. Okay.
  • [00:17:54] Keith: You'll like this one. ah I am afraid to bring partners to meet you because you have a track you have but you have a track record of of them breaking up with me in short order after.
  • [00:18:00] Mike: That's different.
  • [00:18:06] Keith: so
  • [00:18:06] Mike: Hey, what's that all about?
  • [00:18:08] Keith: ah Well, okay. So there was... Well, I won't use names, but yeah, there was the girl that you convinced I was not going to have a child with her.
  • [00:18:19] Mike: It wasn't.
  • [00:18:19] Keith: And then...
  • [00:18:19] Mike: Now, I want to defend myself little here. It wasn't that I convinced her that it's that it was that i saw. It's not even, you know, honestly, it's not even that I probably had just like watched something on TV a day before about and I was thinking about the fact that women all want to have kids.
  • [00:18:34] Mike: And so I just felt like for fun bringing that up.
  • [00:18:35] Keith: ah
  • [00:18:37] Mike: And it worked really well. Like i I was like, oh, you know, I bet you'd like to have a kid soon.
  • [00:18:38] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:18:41] Mike: And like like 20 minutes later, she was crying. and And I didn't, I wasn't like, it wasn't like some sort of like thing that I wasn't premeditated at all. I was just like, oh, I wonder what this rhetoric will do.
  • [00:18:52] Mike: And like, I was like, whoa, I didn't expect it to work that well.
  • [00:18:53] Keith: Right.
  • [00:18:55] Mike: But okay.
  • [00:18:55] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:18:56] Mike: What's the next one?
  • [00:18:56] Keith: Well, yeah, but I have long since decided not to subject my my partners to your thought experiments.
  • [00:19:03] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:19:03] Keith: um
  • [00:19:04] Mike: Right. Well, no, that's true.
  • [00:19:05] Keith: But... ah
  • [00:19:05] Mike: ever so Ever since that one, like there's some agreement to not read exactly to at least behave more neutrally. Like don't, yeah, don't try thought experiments.
  • [00:19:12] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:19:14] Mike: Exactly.
  • [00:19:15] Keith: Yeah. There's another one who didn't break up with me immediately, but ah yeah, I brought her to see you and another friend of the pod and you guys convinced her that she was a moron.
  • [00:19:29] Mike: That wasn't my fault.
  • [00:19:29] Keith: That was great.
  • [00:19:30] Mike: That was somebody. Yeah. OK.
  • [00:19:32] Keith: ah Friend of the pod or whatever. And ah yeah, that there's a there's another canonical one.
  • [00:19:34] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:19:38] Keith: I can't remember what it is though.
  • [00:19:38] Mike: you know defense In our defense, she she did say...
  • [00:19:39] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:19:41] Mike: so i'm not I don't want to say she was a moron. That's probably false. That's not right. That's not fair. She said something moronic. That is true. In our defense. And then we mocked her.
  • [00:19:49] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:19:52] Mike: We're like, oh.
  • [00:19:53] Keith: Yeah. So anyway, reason number four, I guess, could be somebody thinks their friends are embarrassing. I don't think you're embarrassing.
  • [00:19:59] Mike: Oh, okay.
  • [00:20:00] Keith: I think you're a liability in other ways, but you know it' it's sort of in the same subset of things.
  • [00:20:02] Mike: Got it.
  • [00:20:06] Mike: Well, hang on. But there's actually... That's actually a really interesting take, though, because it's not, I think there's there's a little more depth to that. It's not, okay, at core, at core, I think that one is still a status differential.
  • [00:20:22] Mike: Because if the if the person you're seeing that your friends are going to meet is of high enough status, they won't be able to do that. Like the the person's cool and they'll just be like, it's like, oh, they're this person or or actually, actually, maybe you'd be more worried about your friends getting like said something said to them that would be be rough.
  • [00:20:35] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:20:39] Mike: I could see that if the woman's so high status that it's like your friends that.
  • [00:20:43] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:20:44] Mike: OK, so like let's say you have friends at the bowling alley and they're kind of lame. And you're you're dating, you know ah you know, someone who's really cool.
  • [00:20:49] Keith: yeah Yeah.
  • [00:20:51] Mike: And you say, why don't. So, okay. Okay, I buy that. So, again, it's a status differential. But it's like you with you.
  • [00:20:57] Keith: yeah It's in the upper direction.
  • [00:20:58] Mike: Yeah, in your friend life, you like to slum it with these people that are terrible. And you want to sort of hide that from your potential relationship. Okay. I think that's a that's actually a really good one.
  • [00:21:06] Keith: Yeah, I'm trying to think of some TV characters here. Like like maybe... um Yeah,
  • [00:21:17] Mike: Three's company.
  • [00:21:18] Keith: i'm yeah I'm trying to think... of That won't reach anybody who listens to our show.
  • [00:21:22] Mike: That's true.
  • [00:21:23] Keith: um Like who's a TV character that's like a loser and like starts dating up and then might be embarrassed to invite ah introduce that person to their friends? I can't think of anyone, but...
  • [00:21:33] Mike: This is certainly a plot in in this TV show Friends at some point um where they were. Yeah, somebody somebody is seeing somebody that's above their station and then it's complicated. that In fact, 100 percent. That's ah that's a plot device in Friends.
  • [00:21:47] Mike: 100 percent. Like I'm thinking Monica.
  • [00:21:48] Keith: I'm annoyed by your but your friend's ah obsession at the moment.
  • [00:21:50] Mike: I know.
  • [00:21:54] Keith: I
  • [00:21:54] Mike: Yeah, Monica will be dating somebody and he's kind of high end and she'll be hiding her friends from them or whatever. like this Yeah, so I think, look, I think that's another good one. think that one is much smaller. My opinion is that one's smaller.
  • [00:22:03] Keith: do too. I was just bringing it up because i i I sort of foreshadowed that I might think of another.
  • [00:22:07] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:22:10] Mike: right I'm also not sure if that one would be per preventing.
  • [00:22:11] Keith: But anyway, yes, it's...
  • [00:22:15] Mike: That's not the reason why you're an FW. but I guess it is. But you you you see, the here's the thing. is You'd still be willing to go out on traditional dates and and like agree that your boyfriend and girlfriend with this person. It's just that you would avoid them meeting your friends.
  • [00:22:28] Mike: um It's a little bit different. right it's not this specific This situation ship thing is where the guy is keeping a woman at arm's length. um By the way, women also probably can keep men's men at arm's length. Have you had this happen to you before?
  • [00:22:43] Mike: Where a woman kind of where you want to commit more and she won't do it?
  • [00:22:46] Keith: ah Not to my knowledge, and certainly not with anyone that I was serious about.
  • [00:22:52] Mike: Okay. Okay.
  • [00:22:52] Keith: um i might be oblivious, but I don't think so.
  • [00:22:53] Mike: I'm sure it happens.
  • [00:22:57] Mike: Like I'm imagining a woman who has some sort of fetish or she just really likes guys with motorcycles or whatever, but she her family her family would be embarrassed or something.
  • [00:23:03] Keith: Oh, for sure.
  • [00:23:06] Mike: And so she's she's like, look, what you can fuck me, but we're not going to be dating.
  • [00:23:06] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:23:09] Keith: That's right. Yes.
  • [00:23:10] Mike: I think it's less common as well. Anyway, it's good. Thank you for helping to clarify my mental model there. I i wanted i like to road test these things because sometimes they... You know what happens is sometimes I reveal these things I've thought up and people start attacking them.
  • [00:23:25] Mike: And I think, well, am I wrong? And so it's very nice to have this sort of sounding board to like at least have one more point of view on it before it would help me understand how how evil I'm being.
  • [00:23:37] Keith: Well, okay. one We've litigated this to death at this point, but what reasons do you think a woman might make up in her mind for why she's not getting invited to brunch?
  • [00:23:51] Keith: Like what hopeful, delusional reasons?
  • [00:23:51] Mike: I think it's most, i think I think a lot of it, I think a lot of where women wind up, look, I think this happens both directions. Men, look, men, it's going to happen more with young men.
  • [00:24:03] Mike: Men spend a lot of time trying to figure out why this or that woman won't let them have sex with them. Like the friend zone. The friend zone is deeply unsettling and confusing for men. Right.
  • [00:24:12] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:24:12] Mike: Because like, well, but she likes me And all this social messaging tells you that, well, you know, a woman is going to marry her best friend or, you know, whatever. And yet that's patently ah not true.
  • [00:24:20] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:24:23] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:24:23] Keith: yeah it's demonstrably false.
  • [00:24:25] Mike: Yeah, exactly. And so you go, well what's going on here? So men men burn a lot of energy trying to figure that out. And they come up with a bunch of theories. And it's hard. Of course, the theory that's the most difficult to accept is I fucked up.
  • [00:24:37] Mike: There's something where it's me. It's not you. It's me. That's going to be the hardest.
  • [00:24:40] Keith: Right.
  • [00:24:41] Mike: And so I think it's the same thing is the woman is going to kind of swirl around in this toilet bowl of like what's going on most of the time, just having no idea. But then coming up with various theories, like, for example, oh, this guy isn't good at commitment.
  • [00:24:52] Mike: He just doesn't want a relationship. um but they're never But I think it's harder for them to look at themselves and like the man who gets put in the friend zone because he doesn't he's too nice. he doesn't he's He's not masculine enough in certain ways in the relationship.
  • [00:25:06] Mike: Look, the woman who gets put in this status, it's probably just she's not pretty enough. But I think like that, I mean, can you imagine a woman being like, oh, yeah, this is this is what it is? like That's just head exploding time, right? That's really rough.
  • [00:25:21] Keith: Why? i know it's, like, hard to face.
  • [00:25:25] Mike: By the way, I just want to say that
  • [00:25:27] Keith: That doesn't make it less obvious, I don't think.
  • [00:25:27] Mike: the women that ah
  • [00:25:30] Mike: that the women that I ah messed up Keith with all were very pretty. I just want to say. But anyway, so it doesn't make it less obvious.
  • [00:25:37] Keith: Yeah, like...
  • [00:25:40] Keith: I don't think it's rational for a woman in, say, her late twenties to be confused about how important beauty is for a woman in operating in the world.
  • [00:25:56] Keith: And so, yeah, like, look, I understand why they don't want to deal with it, but go on.
  • [00:25:59] Mike: I mean, i think turn the tables like. Yeah.
  • [00:26:04] Mike: yeah Imagine imagine that you have our 29 year old man and have like a pretty middling job. Let's say you're like a debt collector for a firm or something.
  • [00:26:12] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [00:26:13] Mike: It's OK.
  • [00:26:13] Keith: yeah
  • [00:26:13] Mike: You make like 50K a year, but it's not great. You're not going to want to be honest about the fact that the guy who, you know, maybe you didn't like in high school or whatever, you know, whatever. The some guy you knew in high school is now making two hundred k a year.
  • [00:26:29] Mike: working at Oracle or something, and he's just going to be a much better catch for women. And I think it's the same thing. like Women, it's really so painful to look at that aspect. They know how important it is, and so to like look in the mirror truly and say objectively, like on a scale of one to 10, where am I at here? It's the same for a man with career status, money.
  • [00:26:48] Mike: Where am I really here? It's just so painful. And so I just think that people don't want to look at it. And there's and and and I admit acknowledge that There's all this social messaging for women around attractiveness. So you'd think you'd think that they could look at it, but honestly, I mean, you know all of their girlfriends are going to tell them they're that they look great.
  • [00:27:06] Mike: They're not going to be honest.
  • [00:27:06] Keith: yeah
  • [00:27:07] Mike: Really hard to get that objective read. Maybe maybe AI could help with this. yeah You have like a magic mirror on the wall.
  • [00:27:10] Keith: i've um Yeah.
  • [00:27:12] Mike: It's like, yo, you ugly.
  • [00:27:14] Keith: yeah um I did a bunch of experimenting years ago when those services where you could upload potential online dating photos and they would tell you how good looking you were.
  • [00:27:23] Mike: Right.
  • [00:27:25] Keith: And so, like ah yeah, have a fairly good understanding of where my looks relatively rank.
  • [00:27:30] Mike: You use those to pick your photos.
  • [00:27:32] Keith: Yeah, they don't give you an objective score, but you can see...
  • [00:27:36] Mike: I thought you ah you had something that did.
  • [00:27:38] Keith: ah Well, you can... Okay. You can upload a bunch of photos, and then it scores you on like whether you appear trustworthy, whether you appear...
  • [00:27:40] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:27:50] Keith: There's like three different axes, but face...
  • [00:27:52] Mike: Wait, wait, wait. Can stop? Pause for one second here. There is not an app that's like Tinder that they give to women and just have them do swipes. Like this should exist. Like, like basically i pay $5.
  • [00:28:03] Keith: that's what this that's what this That's what this app does.
  • [00:28:03] Mike: I upload my photos and it's not trustworthy.
  • [00:28:06] Keith: It's called Photofeeler.
  • [00:28:07] Mike: Okay. But it's just, this just literally right or left swipe. Like, would you fuck me or not? Like who cares about the reason?
  • [00:28:15] Keith: The way Photofeeler works is that you rate each photo on...
  • [00:28:15] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:28:18] Keith: Okay. Yeah. We can get into the weeds here. Fine. it It makes you choose on three axes.
  • [00:28:22] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:28:24] Keith: Yeah. going to go to it right don't remember what they are. ah Once trustworthyness one smart, trustworthy, and attractive. No,
  • [00:28:34] Mike: Okay. And it's for men only?
  • [00:28:36] Keith: um no women can upload. But in order to get your photos rated, Mike, stop.
  • [00:28:39] Mike: who Who cares how smart a woman is? Sorry.
  • [00:28:43] Keith: In order to get your photo photo rated, you need to ah rate other people's photos and you accrue points or you can pay. But yeah, they have to incentivize people to like use this somehow.
  • [00:28:57] Keith: And ah the the reason why I think they have three things instead of just attractive is maybe people use this for headshots or something.
  • [00:29:02] Mike: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:29:06] Keith: But I think also it's to like decrease fraud so people could use bots to go through this and... If they did, then you would just have like everyone's scores would be high, and like the the differential would be just between like what the non-bots are doing.
  • [00:29:23] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:29:25] Keith: So I suspect they've come up with this because this is what gives the most useful results. um
  • [00:29:30] Mike: Did you find a significant difference between different cohorts of photos you put in?
  • [00:29:36] Keith: Yes. Yeah.
  • [00:29:37] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:29:38] Keith: There were some photos that I thought I i looked pretty good in that I didn't, and then vice versa as well. was
  • [00:29:45] Mike: I would guess that on the, let's just forget about the other two axes, but on the attractiveness scale, which is the one that matters here, I would suspect that the standard deviation, I'm assuming it's sort of a bell curve around some median, the standard deviation for women would be much smaller than for men.
  • [00:29:50] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:30:01] Keith: Hmm.
  • [00:30:02] Mike: Does that make sense? So I think like, I think if a woman uploads, she's going to get a pretty, like, let's say she's a six out of 10. She's going to get a pretty tight, not completely tight. There'll be guys that say she's four and guys. She's eight, but I think it'll be sort of tight.
  • [00:30:13] Mike: And for a man, I think it'll be fairly spread out because I don't think women have as strong preferences in terms of male attractiveness as that.
  • [00:30:19] Keith: Yeah, it might be. I often have the experience when scrolling through people's dating profiles where one photo is substantially worse than the others.
  • [00:30:27] Mike: Hmm.
  • [00:30:28] Keith: And I've said my philosophy on this in the past, like, yeah, a woman is only as attractive as her most unattractive photo. Um, but yeah, I'm just mentioning that as a, something that possibly contradicts your intuition there, but I'm not sure generally.
  • [00:30:36] Mike: Right. Okay. That tends to argue against me.
  • [00:30:45] Mike: Okay. Okay. But anyway, you could imagine something like that that a woman could use to just say, look, he basically, yeah is is he situation shipping me because of my looks or not?
  • [00:30:47] Keith: Um,
  • [00:30:57] Mike: And you just push a button and tells you, yes.
  • [00:30:59] Keith: Yes. ah yeah my my My higher level point here was... ah Yeah, I guess I was originally saying, I don't know how a woman could not understand that attractiveness is really important, but I don't know.
  • [00:31:11] Keith: There was a famous episode of Sex and the City where the girls are at brunch, coincidentally, and they're speculating, oh, and Carrie has brought her boyfriend to brunch, also coincidentally, ah but relevant to the story because they're speculating about why some guy isn't calling, I don't remember who's not getting called back or whatever, but The boyfriend like sits here like watching this whole conversation. and And then at the end, they're like, well, yeah, what do what do you think?
  • [00:31:39] Keith: And he's like, oh, what do I think? And he's you don't want to know what I think. And then they're like, yeah, no, we do. We want like the man's opinion. And he's like, I think he's just not that into you. And that line, he's just not that into you, you know later became you know like a big thing.
  • [00:31:50] Mike: Ah.
  • [00:31:52] Keith: But yeah, this like reveal that, like yeah, it might be that you know you're just not attractive enough or just not interesting enough is maybe a revelation for women.
  • [00:32:02] Mike: Yeah, it's surprising.
  • [00:32:02] Keith: ah
  • [00:32:04] Mike: I mean, yeah, it's just how it might be hard to apply that sort of familiar. i mean, socially, it's familiar. There's lot of makeup advertising and so forth, but applying it to oneself might be difficult.
  • [00:32:13] Keith: Well, yeah.
  • [00:32:14] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:32:15] Keith: Yeah. um All right, you ready to move on?
  • [00:32:18] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:32:19] Keith: All right. ah This was a new take on sleep sex, which is something we used to talk about a lot, but haven't for a while. So this person says, my girlfriend loves the idea of sleep sex, but her asleep self does not.
  • [00:32:33] Keith: So a bit of context. My girlfriend has confessed to me that she loved the idea of me fucking her while she was asleep. It has always been a huge fantasy of hers. So of course I want to make her happy. So we set aside a night where she gives me the go ahead to do it. And she's so excited before she falls asleep that she's finally going to get to experience it.
  • [00:32:49] Keith: So I stay up for a few hours after her and slowly sneak into bed and lie next to her.
  • [00:32:49] Mike: What?
  • [00:32:53] Keith: I go to start rubbing her pussy and the second my hand makes contact with her, she snaps up and says, what the fuck are you doing? Get the fuck off of me and falls back into bed.
  • [00:33:02] Mike: ah
  • [00:33:03] Keith: I had to cover my mouth not to laugh. The next morning she wakes up all sexy and asks if I had a good time last night and I responded with, I tried. explained what happened and while she was disappointed, we both found it hilarious.
  • [00:33:14] Keith: Do guys know any way she can convince her sleep self not to bite my head off next time? I don't...
  • [00:33:21] Mike: I mean, it's good.
  • [00:33:23] Keith: I just believe... Okay. The things we've talked about before is like I just can't imagine not waking up if someone started trying to arouse me. So like I don't even believe this is possible, but let's like let's suspend disbelief there for a moment.
  • [00:33:32] Mike: Right.
  • [00:33:38] Keith: ah Why...
  • [00:33:43] Keith: Yeah, I don't know. I just don't believe any of this, I guess. like he he spends like of Well, he just spends the first three sentences talking about like how he's you know how much consent he has.
  • [00:33:46] Mike: Oh, really?
  • [00:33:53] Keith: And I feel like he's doing that just for the Reddit crowd.
  • [00:33:56] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:33:56] Keith: And then...
  • [00:33:59] Keith: Yeah, like he paints himself in such a like positive light here that I suspect there might be something else to the story. What do you think?
  • [00:34:05] Mike: What would the other thing be that he that she didn't consent and he was tried he tried he tried on her tried it on her and then she reacted that way and then forgot the next morning.
  • [00:34:13] Keith: I don't think it's that extreme.
  • [00:34:14] Mike: He's trying. and Yeah.
  • [00:34:15] Keith: I think like maybe they discussed it in passing or he had a ah notion that she'd be okay with it. But what he's really asking is, yeah, like why would someone who's generally willing to have sex with him be so appalled that he tried to have sex with them in their sleep?
  • [00:34:30] Keith: That is like a much more believable thing. like Yeah, like I think women probably don't like... Well, some women might, but if you haven't discussed it, I think women don't like the idea of being pawed while they're asleep.
  • [00:34:44] Keith: don't
  • [00:34:45] Mike: I also think that a woman might not, it might not occur to her that the a the genital access that she has to a man when he's asleep is quite different from that, that a man would have toward her when she's asleep, right?
  • [00:34:58] Mike: I mean, she could pretty easily get access to him.
  • [00:34:58] Keith: know.
  • [00:35:01] Mike: He's going to have to like kind of dig through layers of flesh potentially to get, depending on how she's lying, but most likely it's going to be, it's going to wake her up and it's going to be aggressive, right?
  • [00:35:11] Keith: Yeah, I mean, the mechanics of sleep sex, we've been through this before, but I'll just say it again. like You could use lube to get her wet. She could happen to be wet like while she's sleeping.
  • [00:35:23] Keith: But yeah, like normally, you know you have to warm a woman up a little bit before there's lubrication down there. And yeah, you can have sex with someone that's not lubed up. It's, you know, not the easiest thing to do gently.
  • [00:35:38] Keith: And so, yeah, I don't know. ah Yeah, the the mechanics of this.
  • [00:35:41] Mike: Well, I'm still stuck at how, yeah, how does he get, I think that, I believe you could get within, say, two inches of the vaginal entrance, but starting there, I think in most sleeping positions, the man actually couldn't even get to the front door without having to kind of do some aggressive stuff.
  • [00:35:43] Keith: Go ahead.
  • [00:35:53] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:35:57] Keith: Right.
  • [00:36:00] Mike: And so, and then, yeah, so I'm i'm even before like the question of lubrication and body positioning and so forth. Like, I just don't think he could really, she maybe if she slept in some kind of like a harness,
  • [00:36:06] Keith: Yeah, great point. Yeah, women yeah i mean women don't sleep with their legs apart usually, whether they're backside sleepers or or stomach sleepers.
  • [00:36:19] Keith: Their legs are ti together.
  • [00:36:19] Mike: right they're not going to be sort of error airing it out so to speak it's not it's not open
  • [00:36:22] Keith: Yeah. I mean, maybe if they're lying on their stomach or their side and you could kind of come in from behind and get to the bottom of the vaginal canal, I don't know.
  • [00:36:27] Mike: right
  • [00:36:32] Mike: how come How come there never... There are never any questions. And this is true, I think. There are never any questions that go like, hey, my girlfriend sleeps a lot of times with her mouth open.
  • [00:36:43] Mike: I'm going to jerk off into her mouth. Like that you could do. And it's pretty sexual. It involves her being asleep. i I don't... Okay, maybe she'd choke. I think she'd survive, though. don't think unlikely she would die from having a little extra fluid in her mouth.
  • [00:36:58] Mike: And like, this is totally doable. How come it always... is vaginal penetration that's desired during the sleep sex.
  • [00:37:05] Keith: This is a good question. Yeah, I could imagine it being kind of hot if she gave you full consent before ah to try to jerk off in her mouth while she was sleeping. I can imagine that.
  • [00:37:18] Mike: It's doable, too.
  • [00:37:18] Keith: ah Well, yeah yeah. Between viability alone just seems makes it much more doable. Right, exactly. So, yeah, I don't know why it always goes to...
  • [00:37:29] Keith: I think men...
  • [00:37:29] Mike: And she's in. Yeah. Yeah. She's not going to wake up in the middle. I think you could do it. It's viable all the way to the point of the semen being in there. So like, anyway, go on. Yeah.
  • [00:37:39] Keith: My guess is that sleep sex is just playing with consent, non-consent boundaries that people like men like dancing around in particular.
  • [00:37:48] Mike: but Yeah, my assumption is all my assumption is always something like the woman, i imagine, particularly young women, just constantly terrified that the guy is going to cheat on them.
  • [00:37:49] Keith: I guess women do too.
  • [00:38:01] Mike: that's like ah That's a bit of my mental model for young women. And so I always think, well, this is a way, like immediately when you started reading that, I thought, oh, this is just a way for her to yeah, stave off him either beating off to porn at night or being, you know, attracted to some other woman, getting on Tinder or Bumble, whatever, at night and scrolling through.
  • [00:38:22] Mike: She's like, look, instead of that, you can just insert and fuck it.
  • [00:38:24] Keith: you could You could use my body. You could use my body. Do you imagine the cynicism required to come to that conclusion, though?
  • [00:38:27] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:38:29] Keith: Like, oh, he just likes sex more than me, and I don't really feel like fulfilling that need. So I've got to like, he's going to use my body when I'm not aware of it.
  • [00:38:35] Mike: I don't know. I think it's sort of adaptive. Like,
  • [00:38:40] Keith: And I think that's a good solution here. That's brutal.
  • [00:38:44] Mike: i think Okay, a couple things on that.
  • [00:38:44] Keith: Yeah. brutal
  • [00:38:45] Mike: Number one, I think that a substantial percentage of sex between happy couples is why, well, look, there's always the case that one person's more into it than the other. Just like it's the odds that it'll be exactly identical or low.
  • [00:38:56] Keith: Sure.
  • [00:38:59] Mike: And I think that it's pretty common for a woman to be like, we're going to have sex this many times a week, and this many of those will be ones where I actually care, and the other ones are just to basically keep you satisfied. It could go the other way too, but it's going more common for the woman to sort of ah agree to something like that, or just sort of like mentally or subconsciously do it that way.
  • [00:39:19] Mike: um And I don't think that's that different than this. It's basically the woman realizing, hey, I need to, as they say, keep his stomach full and his balls empty to keep my man. like I don't think that's such a bad thing. It's like, hey, you this is what you got to do. There are things as a man that a man has to do to keep his woman, right? I mean, if he's like, hey,
  • [00:39:39] Mike: baby, i'm going to be unemployed for the next three years. ah Hope you get your own Obamacare. Like, she's probably going to abandon leave, right? And so whatever, like, there are these things, and like, and his job might well be kind of shitty, something he doesn't like doing.
  • [00:39:52] Mike: um But he's like, yeah, I got to go do my job to keep the woman while she's, I don't know, I don't think it's that bad. I think it's actually kind of, I almost think it's kind of sweet. It's like she's doing something for him. Doing it in their sleep, I think, is irrational, like she's going too far.
  • [00:40:06] Mike: And also suggests to me that maybe the guy is, she's caught him basically beating off to porn at night. It makes me wonder that, if that's the impetus behind this.
  • [00:40:14] Keith: yeah
  • [00:40:15] Mike: But I don't know, like the notion that she would be like, look, I'm i'm going to be more available than I naturally would be just to keep the relationship. I think, I suspect that's very, cool I suspect it's more than half the time relationships have some element of that.
  • [00:40:29] Keith: Yeah, that's an interesting take. Yeah, I mean, I guess your take is some amount of sex, maybe the vast majority, one of the people is doing it perfunctorily.
  • [00:40:43] Keith: And ah maybe maybe perfunctory is too strong a word.
  • [00:40:43] Mike: and Less. Yeah, they're, less you know. Yeah. That's too strong. Yeah.
  • [00:40:49] Keith: If it gets to the point where you know it's often perfunctory, then a woman might be driven to say, like well, you can just use my body when I'm unconscious. I think that's a naive thing to suggest.
  • [00:40:59] Keith: I don't think it's actually possible to be unconscious. and like Honestly, if I were a woman, getting woken up in the middle of the night like to my boyfriend using my body would be annoying, but I'm very sensitive.
  • [00:41:09] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:41:09] Keith: like I'm really sensitive about my sleep.
  • [00:41:12] Mike: Sure.
  • [00:41:12] Keith: And i know I know enough about sleep cycles to know how destructive it is to have like a 10-minute wake-up period in the middle of a night's sleep.
  • [00:41:13] Mike: lot of people.
  • [00:41:19] Keith: But...
  • [00:41:19] Mike: Let me let me ask you this, Keith. Let's say that you had a woman and this I mean, I don't I i don't think I think that ah if there's women out there that think they could do this, they should contact the show. Let's say there was a woman that checked all your boxes.
  • [00:41:34] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:41:34] Mike: And I'm not sure that's possible, but you have a lot of boxes.
  • [00:41:36] Keith: We're in fantasy land here, but all right.
  • [00:41:37] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:41:37] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [00:41:38] Mike: and Okay. So you're like really excited about you're like this. Wow. This like I never I never thought this kind of relationship would be possible.
  • [00:41:44] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:41:44] Mike: You're really excited about her. But one required the one requirement she has that is like not obvious that you should say yes, is that she wants to be present from now on every time you ejaculate.
  • [00:41:56] Keith: Ah, Jesus.
  • [00:41:58] Mike: Right. So she's like, look, honey, I just we we get along so well. I want to I don't have to be with you all the time. I know you like to go out for runs and go traveling. So you look, you can travel by yourself sometimes, times but I just want and like maybe you have an exception for when you're out of the country, you can beat off fine.
  • [00:42:11] Mike: But the point is, when we're in the same geo, if you're going to beat off fine, I just want you to beat off into my mouth or I want to watch.
  • [00:42:14] Keith: yep
  • [00:42:19] Mike: I want to be there when you're beating off. Well, how would that go for you?
  • [00:42:22] Keith: I mean, my intuition is that is a hard no. I wonder...
  • [00:42:26] Mike: Why? why
  • [00:42:28] Keith: i just want to have the potential for privacy. like Maybe I want to explore something that I think she would be very disapproving of or...
  • [00:42:40] Mike: what if she What if you believed if she believably said, look, like i'm you know consume porn however you want.
  • [00:42:44] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:42:46] Mike: like That's not the problem. I just want to be kneeling kneeling under your desk and you're going to jizz in my mouth or whatever.
  • [00:42:47] Keith: I did. Yeah.
  • [00:42:51] Mike: And it's believable that she just, want you know hey, I'll be in the other room. Just call me in and I'll fucking swallow that shit.
  • [00:42:55] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:42:57] Mike: That's what I want.
  • [00:42:57] Keith: we're' We're setting up a preposterous hypothetical here.
  • [00:43:00] Mike: but I know.
  • [00:43:01] Keith: But, yeah, maybe...
  • [00:43:01] Mike: I know. ah You might say yes.
  • [00:43:04] Keith: If she's she's willing to be maximally, ah not adaptive, maximally
  • [00:43:04] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:43:11] Mike: cooperative or compliant or yeah yeah i think guys might do that yeah it's yeah it i mean is it is it because there's something you do that you'd be embarrassed for her to see i mean they're probably there look i think it's fair to say there are things masturbatorily you do that no human has ever seen other than you as far as you know oh
  • [00:43:12] Keith: cooperative, yeah, yeah, maybe. That and feels like a big ask.
  • [00:43:32] Keith: Yeah, probably. But I mean, that's the case for everybody.
  • [00:43:35] Mike: I don't think so. I think the way you do it's a little different.
  • [00:43:36] Keith: Yeah, you're right. That's probably not.
  • [00:43:38] Mike: Like, I think the way I do it is people it's normal.
  • [00:43:39] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, i feel I think I feel a normal amount of shame about my masturbatory proclivities and habits.
  • [00:43:47] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:43:49] Keith: I don't there's nothing like illegal. It's just I just don't want it to be.
  • [00:43:57] Keith: public knowledge and i and yeah i don't really want my partner to know but i guess you know if this person's as amazing as you describe maybe she'd she'd understand me you know but that's a paradox there
  • [00:44:04] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:44:07] Mike: you think you're shame about your ma but Do you think your shame about your habits or like the shame you've described feeling after you orgasm when masturbating sometimes is connected to something with your parents or your parenting style you experienced where you were like, when you were a kid, there were rules and you were sort of you were supposed to follow the rules and you feel like when you beat them off, you're breaking a rule?
  • [00:44:26] Keith: No, I don't know. No.
  • [00:44:29] Mike: Okay. Yeah.
  • [00:44:29] Keith: No, i I think you're unusual for not feeling any shame around ah around masturbating.
  • [00:44:34] Mike: i I know, but I was wondering that because another unusual thing about me is that I had an extremely minimalist parenting style for my parents. And so i so i that was something I wondered. I was talking to somebody about that and i was like, oh, I wonder if that's why I feel no shame about like my behaviors like this is because I just don't feel like there's anybody watching over me or anybody judging me ever.
  • [00:44:54] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [00:44:54] Mike: I'm just my own judge, you know.
  • [00:44:56] Keith: I'm not sure why i feel shame other than to say, i think it's normal.
  • [00:44:57] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:45:03] Keith: And so to the extent that you don't, you might have had something that's more abnormal affecting that.
  • [00:45:04] Mike: Oh,
  • [00:45:10] Mike: ah for sure.
  • [00:45:10] Keith: But I don't know. I might just be saying that reflexively defensively. I don't know.
  • [00:45:14] Mike: Sure, sure. No, i think I think you're right that my experience of this is more unusual. Okay, so yeah, I mean, if ah if anybody checks Keith's boxes, and particularly if they want to watch or consume every one of his ejaculations from here on out, they should contact the show.
  • [00:45:18] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:45:28] Mike: That would be fantastic. Like maybe a very attractive woman.
  • [00:45:31] Keith: It might be hard for her to keep her weight under control. I orgasm, I think, more than the average bear.
  • [00:45:38] Mike: It's only like five cal. What do you more often or more you don't have more content per ejaculation?
  • [00:45:43] Keith: I don't know. I've never measured my semen volume.
  • [00:45:47] Mike: Why not?
  • [00:45:47] Keith: I've had women...
  • [00:45:50] Mike: don't know.
  • [00:45:50] Keith: comment on how it's a lot sometimes but I don't I think that's like and believing that you know every woman who's you know claimed to have an orgasm with you has like ah yeah they might just be being nice who knows or i also I don't think women are good at objectively measuring semen volume anyway I don't think I have anything wrong I don't i don't think I'm high or low I don't have any reason to believe I'm high or low I'm probably within a standard deviation of the mean
  • [00:45:53] Mike: Oh,
  • [00:46:11] Mike: Huh. Huh.
  • [00:46:17] Mike: That's likely. You're probably. Yeah, that's probably right. Okay.
  • [00:46:21] Keith: But I meant number of times I orgasm. And I think that's in terms of total volume, that's a much bigger factor.
  • [00:46:29] Mike: Jesus, man.
  • [00:46:29] Keith: if
  • [00:46:29] Mike: Yeah. She'd just be like, really, Keith? It's the fifth time today. I don't know. I'm going to have to brush my teeth again.
  • [00:46:33] Keith: no Now, see, Mike, this is one of the problems. like i don't I don't want her complaining. don't want any additional guilt. She'd have to just be like, oh, I'm i'm i'm glad to hear that. i but Let me come on over. Where would you like me, sir?
  • [00:46:47] Mike: Yeah, this this thing where you like to share toothbrushes with your girlfriend, do you ever do that such that she's brushing her teeth after she has your semen in her mouth and then it causes a problem?
  • [00:46:52] Keith: Oh, yeah.
  • [00:47:00] Keith: I have a story for you. ah i was i was seeing somebody, and um ah was over at her apartment, and she had a roommate.
  • [00:47:02] Mike: So, yes, I hit a nerve here.
  • [00:47:11] Keith: And I just want to give you an idea of how little I care about the toothbrush sanitation.
  • [00:47:18] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:47:18] Keith: And ah it was I think it was like the morning.
  • [00:47:20] Mike: It's going gross me out.
  • [00:47:22] Keith: And you know i was I was about to put the moves on on the girl I was seeing. And so i i wanted to have you know fresh fresh breath. So I go into their bathroom. And ah I didn't have a toothbrush there.
  • [00:47:36] Keith: And I opened the medicine cabinet and there's, there's two toothbrushes. One belongs to the roommate and one belongs to my, my partner.
  • [00:47:44] Mike: I hate this story.
  • [00:47:45] Keith: And yeah, I just, you know, I just rolled the dice and picked one.
  • [00:47:46] Mike: I would, someone's done this to me before.
  • [00:47:48] Keith: and And, uh,
  • [00:47:50] Mike: I know they have gone.
  • [00:47:51] Keith: Yeah, I'm sure they have.
  • [00:47:51] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:47:52] Keith: And yeah, so I just used a random one. And yeah, i just I just don't care.
  • [00:47:55] Mike: Oh,
  • [00:47:58] Keith: I think toothbrushes are mostly, I think most mouth bacteria, and I might be wrong, like dentists, please please let me know otherwise, although I'm not sure. I'm i'm i'm in so deep now, i'm not sure if I could change my my habits around this.
  • [00:48:10] Keith: But I don't think that mouth bacteria lives outside the mouth long enough for there to be an actual material risk. So it's just gross out out risk that we're talking about here.
  • [00:48:19] Mike: Right. I mean, a toothbrush can actually have an odor, for example. And you, okay, and you're feeling, does that extend to semen?
  • [00:48:23] Keith: It can, yeah.
  • [00:48:25] Mike: So basically, if you know, but's say youre let's say you're you you ejaculate in a woman's mouth, she then goes to brush her teeth, you know she's going to brush her teeth, you can hear it, and then you would still use that toothbrush the next day?
  • [00:48:27] Keith: Yeah. This is a great question.
  • [00:48:38] Mike: You'd be like, okay.
  • [00:48:40] Keith: I would rinse it off extra if I thought of it, but it wouldn't it wouldn't deter.
  • [00:48:43] Mike: Okay. Okay. If you thought of it.
  • [00:48:46] Keith: I'm sure I would forget. a forgetful person.
  • [00:48:49] Mike: Okay. Okay. So, so yeah, so yeah, there's a lot of semen exchange possible. Okay. Got it.
  • [00:48:56] Keith: mm-hmm yeah um yeah i was recently in a situation uh
  • [00:48:56] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:49:05] Keith: ah I had had vaginal sex with somebody in the morning and in the evening ah I went to go down on her and she was like, oh, are you are you sure?
  • [00:49:17] Mike: Oh no.
  • [00:49:20] Keith: And I was like, ah yeah, I think so. Why? there something I need to know? And she was like, well, um and she was like, if if it's if it's fine with you, it's that um I'm fine.
  • [00:49:35] Keith: And didn't
  • [00:49:35] Mike: Well, but you know that doesn't that doesn't just mean that...
  • [00:49:36] Keith: ah hold on hold on
  • [00:49:37] Mike: Okay, yeah. yeah
  • [00:49:39] Keith: I didn't interrogate her further, and I just went for it.
  • [00:49:39] Mike: Go
  • [00:49:41] Keith: But then, yeah, it later occurred to me that maybe she was saying that because she knew that there were still remnants of me inside of her. Yeah.
  • [00:49:48] Mike: ahead. 100%.
  • [00:49:50] Keith: Yeah, well, I didn't think of it at the time.
  • [00:49:50] Mike: Yes, this is because she was still dripping.
  • [00:49:51] Keith: i thought I just thought it was because you know she hadn't showered that day or something, and she was feeling insecure about that.
  • [00:49:57] Mike: I don't like this story at all. Okay.
  • [00:49:59] Keith: Yeah, yeah
  • [00:50:00] Mike: ah You didn't notice anything different?
  • [00:50:03] Keith: I did not. I did not.
  • [00:50:04] Mike: And it didn't affect your interest level.
  • [00:50:04] Keith: But...
  • [00:50:06] Mike: You were just, it was just totally normal.
  • [00:50:09] Keith: ah
  • [00:50:10] Mike: You didn't think about it.
  • [00:50:11] Keith: It was mildly concerned, but I don't know.
  • [00:50:11] Mike: know
  • [00:50:13] Keith: i must not have been concerned enough because like it's thinking back on it now, of course, like the first thing to think about is like, oh yeah, could there be something in there? like It's obvious in retrospect why she said what she said, but for some reason it didn't occur to me at the time.
  • [00:50:20] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:50:24] Keith: Maybe yeah my lizard brain was activated. I was i was ready to go.
  • [00:50:27] Mike: you You didn't even hearken back to what had happened that morning to say, oh, I know why she's saying this. You just thought, why are you asking this question?
  • [00:50:34] Keith: That's right.
  • [00:50:35] Mike: Wow.
  • [00:50:35] Keith: I agree it it sounds incoherent.
  • [00:50:35] Mike: Okay. Good for you.
  • [00:50:38] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:50:39] Mike: You were, you were really horny.
  • [00:50:40] Keith: I like going down on this person. So, yeah.
  • [00:50:42] Mike: Okay, good.
  • [00:50:46] Keith: All right. Let's move on to ah the next thing. um Okay. This was the number one thing on the sex subreddit this week. ah My new boyfriend went too hard on me and I came. I'm 26, he's 31, had sex last night, and I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it still.
  • [00:51:03] Keith: We've been dating for a bit over a month, and he's been really sweet and loving and honestly amazing. So I was definitely ready. Interesting that those are the things that makes her ready. I was honest with him that he needed to be very gentle since it had been almost a year since I have had sex with my ex, and he's also a lot bigger down there than he was.
  • [00:51:21] Keith: And honestly, it started off amazing. Like he did tons of foreplay and gave me an orgasm from just rubbing and licking me. And it was so nice since that was super rare with my ex. Man, ex is catching strays here. She never orgasmed with him.
  • [00:51:31] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:51:33] Keith: His dick is tiny. ah When we started having ah penetrative sex, it also started off amazing.
  • [00:51:34] Mike: yeah
  • [00:51:38] Keith: He was listening to my but body, not going too deep or hard, and it felt really, really good. But once he was close to finishing, he started going harder and a bit deeper. And I was comfortable ah with which was okay at first because I knew he was going to finish soon.
  • [00:51:52] Keith: But then he like full on was basically going as hard as he could. And it was honestly really hurting, but it was also so intense. I couldn't really say anything. And I ended up having my first full on vaginal orgasm. Like it didn't even feel good.
  • [00:52:04] Keith: Like it legit was so powerful that it was overwhelming. And I just felt like I was peeing myself while having a seizure is the best way I can describe it. So that sounds like a, you know, quote unquote, real orgasm by our diagnosis.
  • [00:52:14] Mike: Okay.
  • [00:52:15] Keith: I honestly feel so gross after and a little bit violated. Like he apologized so much when I told him how much he hurt me, but it's confusing because he also knows I had a full on orgasm. I don't know what to say to him because while I kind of want to experiment,
  • [00:52:28] Keith: What's trying to come like that again? i don't want it to be an excuse for him to go so hard. It hurts me. So there's like a couple of things I want to talk about here. Thing one is...
  • [00:52:35] Mike: I don't believe this. Yeah.
  • [00:52:38] Keith: Thing one is...
  • [00:52:42] Keith: If you tell a man you want him to be careful, ah maybe because he's like really big and you're worried he's going to you know punch a hole in your cervix, and then he doesn't, normally you'll see the responses on Reddit.
  • [00:52:51] Mike: Uh-huh.
  • [00:52:57] Keith: Everybody be like, oh my God, he raped you. You need to break up with him immediately.
  • [00:53:00] Mike: Right.
  • [00:53:01] Keith: In this case, it's a little bit tricky. It sounds like you know she orgasmed. ah When they first started having sex, things were great. And then as he got excited, he started going deeper. She didn't say anything.
  • [00:53:13] Keith: And then he came.
  • [00:53:15] Mike: She came. She came.
  • [00:53:17] Keith: They both came.
  • [00:53:17] Mike: But did they... Oh, whatever.
  • [00:53:19] Keith: i But I feel like
  • [00:53:23] Keith: Yeah, like you sort of have to say something. I know she said before they started that like, you know, she wants him to go slow. But like when she was really into it, I think, you know, he may have reasonably thought like, oh, she's into this. I'm going to, you know, just keep going.
  • [00:53:39] Keith: And, you know she didn't say anything. So anyway, the the first thing is this isn't rape. OK, thing two is.
  • [00:53:47] Keith: I wonder if certain parts of women's minds, boy, this is going to sound, I'm just going to say
  • [00:53:57] Keith: like being a little bit afraid, right? So you know I think BDSM is a little bit about like this, you know certain kinds of you know physical pain play, i think is sort of like this.
  • [00:54:11] Keith: And that part of the reason why you know she had this intense orgasm was because she was a little bit fearful. And so you know the advice you see in the Reddit here, that the top comment is have a detailed open conversation.
  • [00:54:25] Keith: They probably should do that, but she might find that the next time this happens, it's not as arousing for her.
  • [00:54:33] Mike: it yeah I don't know. i don't think that I would phrase it as afraid. I'll just take it as a given that this is what happened. this The reason why this it's probably true, but it's it's triggering for me a little bit because this fits so cleanly into like a male fantasy that basically the man just uses the woman like a real doll and she just loves it.
  • [00:54:50] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:54:51] Mike: And like, okay if vi but you look, there's truth to fantasies, too. It's not like it could never happen. So let's address it that way. I don't think it's fear.
  • [00:54:58] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:54:59] Mike: I think it's ah dominance, right? It's like this. Look how powerful this person is and they're on my side. So this is my this is a person that would protect me.
  • [00:55:09] Keith: yeah
  • [00:55:09] Mike: ah And, you know, ah he's I don't think she's actually afraid of him. I think she's aroused by his power. He's powerful. He's dominant. He's forceful.
  • [00:55:22] Mike: um And that psychologically sort of brought her up to a level that she wouldn't get to before. And I actually could. But that being said, I completely agree with you that the problem with having a conversation about it is what is that I actually I'm not sure that it would matter if she felt like he was more calibrated, knew what was going on. I think the problem is he would be less forceful.
  • [00:55:43] Mike: Right. Potentially, because the conversation would make him more self-conscious about it. i'm not I'm not totally sure how to keep a guy keyed up to this level um without going overboard.
  • [00:55:54] Keith: Yeah, I mean, i yeah. I guess... the motivations and like inner workings of the mind set aside, i think a quote-unquote detailed open conversation here is I don't know about likely, but could very easily ruin the dynamic that made it arousing for her.
  • [00:56:14] Keith: I'm not sure. And and there's you know it's it's it's multimodal.
  • [00:56:16] Mike: Yeah.
  • [00:56:18] Keith: It might be that he's more shy, or it might be that she's less she's feeling less dominated because he's being more careful. I'm not sure. But...
  • [00:56:26] Mike: You're saying she wants it to be some kind of a surprise.
  • [00:56:26] Keith: ah yeah
  • [00:56:28] Mike: Like.
  • [00:56:29] Keith: I think there's some risk for having and having a little bit of mystery around sex, I think, can often be um part of the up the arousal.
  • [00:56:41] Mike: Okay, let's say let's say, okay, maybe this is just, okay, you caveated it by saying male mind, female mind difference, but i would just I just want to say this, partly because it's funny and partly because it's illuminating for at least the male side.
  • [00:56:50] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:56:54] Mike: Let's say that you had two choices.
  • [00:56:54] Keith: Okay.
  • [00:56:55] Mike: One is to get a blowjob from a very beautiful woman. The second one is to get a blowjob, but your balls are in some sort of device that like there's some probability every second that a little hammer will strike one of your testicles.
  • [00:57:07] Mike: Like that's fucking terrifying.
  • [00:57:07] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:57:10] Mike: But what would happen is I just wouldn't enjoy the thing at all because I'd be thinking, well, sometime in the next two minutes, I'm about to have excruciating pain.
  • [00:57:10] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:57:13] Keith: Yes.
  • [00:57:17] Mike: And if I were a woman, I would be, and some guy was doing this, I would be genuinely afraid that he's going to like crack my pelvis or do some cartilage damage or hurt my vertebrae or something or tear my labia or something like that.
  • [00:57:17] Keith: Right.
  • [00:57:27] Keith: Right.
  • [00:57:28] Mike: And I feel like it would be hard to,
  • [00:57:32] Keith: To move past that.
  • [00:57:33] Mike: Right. But yeah, that that would... ah Now, lets let's see. Maybe there's some analogy that goes the other direction for men. Like usually often you can... turn black to white and white to black and it works for a man. I'm just not sure what it would be because the opposite of pain is pleasure. So it's like, I don't know what the risk would be.
  • [00:57:48] Mike: Maybe it's analogous to like the risk that you get caught in a public setting or something and that, that elevates it. I don't know. It's hard. It's hard for me to draw an analogy by the way. Well, I don't like porn.
  • [00:58:00] Mike: This is basically universally true. I don't like porn that basically shows a muscle man beating like kind of really, aggressively fucking a woman. And I think it's straight up because I don't like that fantasy because I'm not that physically imposing of a person.
  • [00:58:13] Mike: I mean, I'm a normal size, but like I'm not six, four and 400 pounds. I'm not ah Travis Kelsey.
  • [00:58:17] Keith: um ah I'm glad you said that. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because, yeah, I don't like that kind of porn either because it's Yeah, it makes me feel a bit emasculated.
  • [00:58:30] Mike: Yeah, it suggests that a woman wants this thing I can't do.
  • [00:58:30] Keith: It's like, yeah, like I can't do that.
  • [00:58:33] Mike: Right.
  • [00:58:33] Keith: Right.
  • [00:58:34] Mike: And and and frankly, I don't think women really want that.
  • [00:58:34] Keith: Yeah, okay.
  • [00:58:37] Mike: So so the point is that, look, I think people like usually I feel a lot of pride in the answers I so give on this podcast. But this one, actually, i don't know, man, like because maybe I'm just jealous.
  • [00:58:50] Mike: I'm like, oh, yeah, because, yeah, the notion of being able to just beat a woman to submission is kind of cool. I just don't know if I physically am up to that. So it's rough, you know, and and then like, yeah, it's like I could never take a woman into orbit like this.
  • [00:58:56] Keith: Yeah.
  • [00:59:03] Mike: So it's sad. i don't I don't want to face that reality. You might be better able to do it, Keith.
  • [00:59:10] Keith: I'm just reading some of the other comments here. ah Yeah, okay, here come the rape ones.
  • [00:59:13] Mike: Yes.
  • [00:59:16] Keith: Yeah, okay.
  • [00:59:17] Mike: Right.
  • [00:59:20] Mike: Yeah, I mean, that's just that's like a standard concern. And you mean, yeah, maybe she like I don't really know where to go with the fact that she described her orgasm is like powerful, but like painful.
  • [00:59:32] Mike: That's doesn't sound great. Yeah.
  • [00:59:35] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I don't either. Honestly, yeah, frankly, I don't either. I mean, it's a weird thing. like I can't really imagine orgasming in any kind of situation where I'm not comfortable.
  • [00:59:46] Mike: Where does this end? Like, I mean, what if what if there was some equivalent to the hammer with the balls? Like, if I had, like, a little electric prod that I attached to her labia, and it's like, look, baby, like, I don't know. They might shock you. Like, would that amp it up?
  • [00:59:59] Keith: I don't know. like You've seen some of the weird shit gay men do, right? Where they're like...
  • [01:00:05] Mike: Go on.
  • [01:00:05] Keith: You know, like, and well, I mean, ah electrodes electrodes, for example, are not unheard of. ah You know, and nipple clamps and like all this weird shit.
  • [01:00:12] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:00:16] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:00:16] Keith: Those are all hard hard passes for me, but, you know, I guess, or, you know, even choking.
  • [01:00:19] Mike: There is that device, there is that electro-ejaculator device that can make you come through electric stimulation.
  • [01:00:21] Keith: Choking.
  • [01:00:26] Mike: And I think they use it on animals.
  • [01:00:27] Keith: How?
  • [01:00:28] Mike: I don't know, but I've seen a porn of it.
  • [01:00:29] Keith: Oh, I see. On an animal.
  • [01:00:33] Mike: No, on a human. There's some guy, I mean, look, I don't know. I've seen a lot of different porns, but I don't remember.
  • [01:00:36] Keith: Where does the electrode go?
  • [01:00:39] Mike: Around the base of the cock or something? Basically, you just watch this guy and he like pushes a button on this machine and he nuts. And you're like, all right.
  • [01:00:49] Keith: What's the refractory period on that?
  • [01:00:51] Mike: not sure. Actually, now that I say it, it sounds fake. So I don't, I think it might be fake.
  • [01:00:56] Keith: ah Okay, well, you can do some research and let us know ah next episode.
  • [01:00:58] Mike: Yeah.
  • [01:01:00] Keith: ah In the meantime, that will do it for this episode of Your Mileage May Vary. You can send us feedback or questions to ymmvpod at gmail.com. That's ymmvpod at gmail.com. We pay $10 for all feedback, so give us your Venmo or Cash App or whatever.
  • [01:01:12] Keith: And if you don't want us to use your question on the air, let us know. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next week on Your Mileage May Vary.