YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary Podcast

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Episode 24: Multiple Climax Analysis, Watching Women Self-Pleasure, Keith’s Oral Aversion, Male Nudes

Team YMMV | 1-6-2021 | 1:11:15

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Two women contact us about their experiences with multiple orgasms. Are their experiences real? How many are possible in a session? How does the 10th climax feel?

How would Keith handle the situation where a woman insisted on giving him oral? How does he explain his aversion to them?

And, is there any way for men to produce nude photos that a woman would actually want to look at?

For those wanting to see a redacted version of the letter Keith received that we discussed:

https://ymmv.me/24/keith-letter

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/24/most-intense-orgasm

https://ymmv.me/24/male-nudes

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[0:08] Guest: nowadays, I could go beyond, like, six in a row, but it doesn't. It doesn't actually become more difficult.
[0:10] Guest: Um, it actually becomes kind of more easy.
[0:13] Keith: Okay, I want to pause this here,
[0:16] Keith: uh, does become more difficult for me,
[0:26] Keith: right? Like the first one is easiest. The second one is a little bit harder. Third one harder still, it's It's probably actually exponentially. Hardly.
[0:39] Keith: Hello, and welcome to your mileage may vary. Things Show is a mostly comedy slash sometimes serious show about sex and relationships. My co host is fellow sex kind of sore Mike. Say hi to the adoring fans. Mike. Hello.
[0:50] Keith: I'm pretty excited for this episode, and not only because I've received an amazing letter from a partner that I'm positive Mike is going to claim is filled with lies.
[1:02] Keith: We have a bunch of juicy other topics to cover, including some listener feedback about the maximum number of female orgasms achievable whether it's hot to watch a partner masturbate on camera negotiating, blowjob intent and more
[1:25] Keith: a few bits of house keeping before we get started. If you love the show as much as we think you should, we appreciate ratings on whatever podcast platform you use. We also enthusiastically collect feedback at Y mm Peapod at gmail dot com. And to entice you into opening that old fashioned email client, we offer $15 for any feedback received. Just let us know how you'd like us to pay you cash up. Venmo. Whatever.
[1:28] Keith: Okay, Mike. Happy New Year.
[1:30] Mike: Happy New Year, Keith. When you say a partner,
[1:33] Mike: you mean a sexual partner.
[1:39] Keith: I dio And this was a fairly recent experience.
[1:41] Keith: Um,
[1:45] Keith: and so I don't know if I should just
[1:47] Keith: Yeah, I guess she set up some context.
[2:01] Mike: Is this an ongoing partner? Like Is this someone that you're gonna be reluctant to talk about? Or is it something that you you feel? You know, it has reached a point where maybe it's over or whatever, and you feel liberated. Toe, give full disclosure.
[2:08] Keith: This is a person that I have met in person once, and I
[2:11] Keith: I hope I'm going to see her again.
[2:12] Keith: Ah,
[2:22] Keith: our plan. Our stated plan definitely is, too, but, you know, maybe she'll change her mind. I did ask her if I could share this, and she said yes. Okay.
[2:27] Mike: But that means that you're going to be a little bit guarded in If I start posing a lot of questions, you know, we'll see how this goes.
[2:33] Keith: Well, yeah, yeah, we'll negotiate this as we go along. Uh, but, um,
[2:42] Keith: some context, we had sex and she announces her orgasms. And for
[2:50] Keith: those who have not listened to some of our more recent episodes, can you briefly describe your opinion on orgasm announcing?
[2:59] Mike: Sure. I mean, it's well, first of all, I mean, announcing is something that men do pretty consistently in porn in real life, where they sort of
[3:28] Mike: say, they're about to come. And it's something that women do in porn, but maybe less in real life and makes me suspicious of the reality of the orgasm because there's really no for a man. There's a reason to announce its that Ah, Fluid is about to be expelled. And maybe the woman, for one reason or another, wants to know about that for the woman like, there's no actual actionable insight derived from that announcement, and so that makes it a little strange, a little unusual. But, you know, let's look
[3:32] Keith: for for a woman to announce there's no
[3:36] Keith: there's no like critical need for her to announce. Yeah.
[4:00] Mike: I mean, I think that for a man, it's mostly pragmatic. It's that, like, men. Ah, yeah. I mean, like, they, they their partner appreciates, um, knowing what's what's coming, so to speak. And particularly in Orel, I think in aural it's just obvious why, right? I mean, like, you know, she doesn't wanna choke or gag or something. And so there's this piece of information you can convey for a woman. Yeah. There's just no such necessity.
[4:01] Keith: Yes.
[4:09] Keith: Okay. Yes, I agree with all that. Okay. All right. So all right. So, So, So fact one is that is that she announces her
[4:09] Keith: eso.
[4:22] Mike: What can you give us the exact words she used? I mean, did did e know that you bet close to if not 1000 from your female partners, even on the first time, which is very unusual. Yeah, we're
[4:26] Keith: getting We're getting to that. I mean this This, uh, this is Yeah. Let
[4:36] Mike: me a couple couple, couple car question. Actually, there was no vibrator involved. There was no vibrator involved. And what what was involved like, What was the thing that drew her toe climax? Uh,
[4:55] Keith: eso She had a number of orgasm, so I can't remember if I said this. Yeah, OK, so So she wrote me a short letter that I'm going to read here at the at the end of this year. And it it, um the number of orgasms is stated in this letter, so I don't want to spoil it until we until we get to it. Um,
[5:16] Keith: but, uh, yeah, she had multiple orgasms, and I will say for for your sake so that you don't need to do this. Let's stipulate that they're supposed orgasm. So they she claims that she did. I think that she did. And whether or not she actually did is gonna be sort of up to you and the jury of our listeners. Okay,
[5:25] Mike: Hang on. So you think she did, Which is interesting. Do you think she did on Lee because of her reporters or something else in the situation that makes you so confident
[5:28] Keith: by her report? You mean her announcement
[5:37] Mike: or her letter? I have to say that I have never received a letter after sex indicating how many orgasms like the woman had. That's ah, very formal
[5:41] Keith: reason. Reason why she did. This is,
[5:42] Keith: uh,
[6:02] Keith: after the second time, I sort of laughed. It was like s Oh, it was so topical. Right? Because we've been talking about this last couple episodes, like whether announcing orgasms is normal and whether people having orgasms on early sexual encounters is possible. And I was like the others. Wait till you hear about this. You
[6:24] Mike: have to know. I'm really You have to know that there's nothing that pleases me more than knowing. Thought you had around that time. So you were You were Let's just get this. So you were in bed with this lovely lady having sex. She's having all these orgasms and you're not thinking about her beautiful naked body. You're thinking about your like you love it. Yeah. You want to go into more detail on that?
[6:35] Keith: No, I don't think that would be already. Yeah, there's some amount of What do they say? People don't kiss and tell him. Obviously telling quite a bit here. But that that za
[6:41] Mike: bridge, like we can't, for example, post a picture to the show notes. Correct that you can
[6:46] Keith: remember we're still anonymous. We've never used full names or anything. So Yeah,
[6:56] Mike: already. Okay, so So you the The thing that persuaded you that it was happening was not Was it just the announcement, or was there some physical manifestation?
[7:02] Keith: I'm deciding whether or not this is a big reveal. I don't I don't think it is. Uh,
[7:09] Keith: I'll ask her after we record, but I think this is okay. So when she orgasms, she gets, uh,
[7:13] Keith: very sensitive and,
[7:27] Keith: uh, a couple a few of the times she, like, actually pushed me out of her, um, and was sensitive for, you know, probably 30 seconds, maybe, maybe longer after,
[7:28] Keith: um,
[7:29] Keith: can you be
[7:33] Mike: more specific about what you mean by pushed me out of her, like, what does that mean?
[7:39] Keith: Yeah, So I can sort of feel contractions, um,
[7:43] Keith: or, like, contraction. And then,
[7:51] Keith: yeah, she puts her hand on my hips. I mean, she she announces she's coming, and then, yeah, she's sort of pushes me off of her.
[7:59] Mike: Okay, So I just was I wanted to clarify that it wasn't actually like her vaginal muscles that we're pushing her out of her hands. Okay?
[8:11] Mike: And also so she announces. And what is the time lag between the announcement and pushing you off of her or out of her. Uh, it varied, but
[8:15] Mike: ballpark, you know, five seconds a minute,
[8:20] Keith: it would be something like, you know, I'm going to come and then
[8:21] Keith: Ah,
[8:27] Keith: yeah, something on the order of 20 to 30 seconds. E sometimes go ahead.
[8:30] Mike: Did this only take place in one
[8:33] Mike: position, or were there multiple positions where this took place?
[8:36] Keith: I don't see how this is relevant to anything. The
[8:44] Mike: reason it's relevant is because, uh, eyes because you said that the increased sensitivity
[9:06] Mike: caused her to want you to stop doing what you were doing, which is which makes sense. But what I was trying to understand is, like, you know, where is the sensitivity? So then I was thinking to myself, OK, well, if the sensitivity is sort of in the clit region, then maybe there's one position that would stimulate that more. And then maybe there was another position where, you know, there'd be less of that, and then you would expect her not to push you off out of her.
[9:07] Keith: Okay,
[9:09] Keith: I'm going to try to remember. I think
[9:09] Guest: I
[9:14] Keith: could just say the number because that's not like the That's not like the most interesting part of this letter. So the number is six,
[9:22] Keith: um, of claimed orgasms. And I think two were Orel
[9:29] Keith: and four were penetrative, But I'm not sure, Like, I wouldn't sign an affidavit, uh,
[9:45] Keith: swearing to that, but that's like the correct order aan den positions. I'm not sure. I think a t least two were missionary, and then one or two of the others were, Ah,
[9:47] Keith: other I think I can't remember.
[9:49] Mike: And the aural ones,
[9:53] Mike: uh, were those the first
[9:55] Mike: no
[10:02] Mike: interesting on Were you doing anything special? Other than using your tongue and maybe fingers?
[10:06] Keith: Uh huh. Anything special? Like what?
[10:11] Mike: Well, for starters, was it just tongue? Just fingers were also, I guess. Tongue?
[10:14] Keith: Yeah. Are you asking if there was, like, a toy involved?
[10:18] Mike: Mostly. I want to know if you had your fingers in there.
[10:22] Keith: Oh, on on one of them? Yes.
[10:25] Mike: So did you. Did you Would you say
[10:29] Keith: E obviously should have taken more careful notes here. But from
[10:38] Mike: your from your vast experience in this area, would you say that you felt the characteristic contractions with your finger or fingers?
[10:42] Keith: And I knew this would this would this would come up?
[10:43] Keith: I think so.
[10:48] Keith: You think you did okay? Yeah, but yeah, I think so. All
[10:51] Mike: right, so is there more? There must be more to this story. There's a letter she wrote you so
[10:53] Keith: well. This
[10:53] Guest: letter
[11:00] Keith: is I mean, we've we've gotten We've sort of dance around the circle to pray here, but yeah. I mean, I'll read the letter. Um
[11:07] Keith: uh, and you have a picture of this available to you. Um, but unfortunately, it has. I have not read it, right?
[11:10] Mike: I have not read the letter. You said it was great. So I'm really excited.
[11:15] Keith: So? So before I read this letter, you have You have not read the letter?
[11:19] Mike: I have not. I know that there's a letter I saw that you you posted me a screenshot, but that's it.
[11:25] Keith: Before I read this letter, I want to know what the probability
[11:29] Keith: what probability you would assign to
[11:32] Keith: her having had six organisms is
[11:33] Keith: I mean, there's
[11:41] Mike: the problem is I don't want to start boring our audience about this like there's I mean, there's like, what was the total? A couple more things. What was the total amount of time.
[11:43] Keith: Ah,
[11:46] Keith: une evening and the next morning
[11:48] Mike: Oh,
[11:51] Mike: Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's totally changes it.
[11:55] Keith: So sorry that this was not all in one in one session.
[12:00] Mike: Oh, well, that I mean, that's a really important reveal. I mean, like, Okay, so how maney in the evening and how maney in the morning?
[12:03] Keith: I don't I don't I don't remember the split.
[12:04] Mike: Okay, But it was something like two,
[12:07] Keith: 43 Yeah, it wasn't 51 or 60
[12:15] Mike: Okay. And then let's take the evening session or the morning, Whichever one you want. How long did that session last?
[12:17] Keith: Uh
[12:21] Keith: ah, long enough. Period of time where
[12:26] Keith: you wouldn't. It wasn't like it was orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm, orgasm. It was There
[12:35] Mike: was it couldn't have been because you've already said that there was a most safe four in a session. You're saying you're saying it was like, like, an hour or 45 minutes or something?
[12:36] Keith: Yes.
[12:37] Keith: Yeah. I mean, I think that's
[12:41] Mike: plausible. I think it's plausible. There's nothing here that's, like, insane to me. Okay.
[12:51] Keith: Yeah. So eso All right. So this is what she wrote. And she wrote this after I said that you would never believe what had happened. She says I
[13:02] Mike: did you wait. When did you say that? What is going on? Your teeth. So like so? So you're you're in bed with this woman on. You guys were sitting there talking about about me.
[13:04] Mike: What's wrong with you?
[13:11] Keith: Okay, that wasn't like the Onley topic of conversation bike. I hope not talked about world affairs and
[13:11] Keith: you know,
[13:16] Mike: so you you like he's not gonna believe it. And she's she's a regular listener. I take it. Or maybe you keep
[13:23] Keith: e think she's listened to one episode or she's certainly not. She doesn't know the full, um, cannon.
[13:24] Keith: Okay,
[13:39] Mike: well, but we appreciate yet another listener, so thank her for that. Well, she's listening. Probably. But but OK, so so And then she wrote you. And by the way, I do know this letters, hand written hand written letters. Let's hear it. Let's hear
[13:58] Keith: it. Okay. She says I, uh, and then she states her name. Swear on all my honor in life that Keith and then she actually says my full name gave me six, and then six is underlined three times of the best orgasms of my life on our first date, and then she writes the date, and she signed it.
[14:00] Mike: Okay, well, you can frame that.
[14:09] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, that's what that's what somebody else suggested. I mean, it's obviously needs to get protected under under safe glass and all that,
[14:12] Keith: um
[14:13] Keith: and
[14:25] Keith: yeah. I mean, you never did say like what you thought the odds were. And now that we have this letter, maybe I should get it notarized by Nancy Pelosi. Who's our congressman here in San Francisco? I don't like I don't think
[14:39] Mike: that I don't think that I understand where this is coming from. This is coming from, like my previous statements that I'm skeptical about kind of women who say they've had a really large number and kind of rolling, in other words, with very little time in between. Yes,
[14:46] Keith: to things. Yes. The well, Yeah, that Okay? Yeah. The amount of time in between the announcing and
[14:48] Keith: having this happen
[14:51] Keith: on in early sexual encounter.
[14:57] Mike: Okay, that's true. That's true. So So let's, uh the the
[15:17] Mike: the Let's start with the many, many in a row. The thing that I am skeptical of is when the claim is made that there is something that's just totally different from an experience that a man could ever have that that makes me skeptical because, you know, biologically, like exit. The functioning of the parts is, like, fairly
[15:34] Mike: similar. And so it Z when people make a claim that they've just had some fundamentally different experience from the other gender that I'm always suspicious of that, um, So so But here. I don't think that's happening. I mean, like the reality. Like, how many orgasms did you have?
[15:37] Mike: Um,
[15:38] Mike: three.
[15:51] Mike: Okay, so I mean, she's not like that far off from you and like you, you know? So that's so Yeah. I mean, that's plausible. Okay, so there's two other dimensions here. There's the announcing. So did she. What? Every single time she did that?
[15:54] Mike: Yes. Okay. And
[15:57] Keith: by the way, it z
[15:59] Keith: e mean
[16:19] Keith: yeah. Module. Oh, you being in my head about it? Definitely being false. Uh, controlling for that, you scumbag? Uh, yeah, it's pretty nice. It's It's arousing for someone to announce that it's actually almost yeah to arousing right. Like it pushes me closer.
[16:27] Mike: Sure. I mean, by the way, when she announced was it like What was that? Do we talk about this with a time lag was between the announcement and your I
[16:29] Keith: didn't I didn't give
[16:37] Keith: a concrete answer because I don't remember. But also, it sort of depends. Like, you know, she would say, I'm close and then, you know,
[16:39] Keith: moments later,
[16:41] Keith: uh, I'm coming
[16:47] Mike: now, had she, but But importantly, she'd heard this podcast. So this is like
[16:56] Keith: some skepticism. I'm not sure. In fact, I'm almost positive she had not heard any of the episodes where we discussed this topic.
[16:59] Mike: Then why did she sign that letter? Because you talk
[17:01] Keith: because I mentioned it. Yeah, I mentioned it.
[17:06] Keith: Okay, okay. Eso in question. That was a reasonable question. But when
[17:14] Mike: she when she announced, Well, so for example, the next morning there's some room for suspicion. Because, like, you have had this conversation, presumably you
[17:19] Keith: should imagine all future announcements are, like, almost embellished because she's been encouraged to do so.
[17:23] Mike: Yeah, when she announced, was it really matter of fact, or was it sort of like,
[17:25] Mike: kind of a mooned kind of
[17:30] Keith: like Mike? It was It was breathless, Almost euphoric, I would say.
[17:32] Keith: Okay.
[17:35] Keith: Um e mean Okay, so this is
[17:54] Mike: really good. I really appreciate I don't have a name for her, but, uh, but her her her feedback here. I think that she is doing something helpful here to clarify my position on this. I don't think that what she's describing there is impossible by any means. It's, uh it sounds believable to me. The issue I have is that
[18:17] Mike: the style of announcement that takes place in porn is just obviously fake. Um, and so it's like the context matters. Like the fact that, like, there was all this other stuff going on, um, you know, I'm closed. All this kind of stuff that, like, made it contextually sort of reasonable versus, like, a woman, a cam girl in front of a camera That's probably just putting on a show for you, Like it's it's much harder to believe in that latter category.
[18:18] Keith: Okay,
[18:20] Keith: that
[18:22] Keith: Yeah, that's that's that's reasonable.
[18:28] Keith: Okay, so we'll go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to be Oh, yeah, Go ahead. Go ahead to the third.
[18:32] Mike: Okay. You know, so this thing about
[18:37] Mike: the first time with a guy, um
[18:41] Keith: I think certain people are more comfortable than others.
[18:47] Keith: Yeah, like this person. This person is not at all uncomfortable with her sexuality.
[18:49] Mike: Okay,
[18:50] Mike: um,
[18:55] Mike: well, but but But in the letter, she told you there were some of the best orgasms of her life, which makes
[19:01] Keith: me e almost wish she hadn't said best. Because
[19:03] Keith: that makes it. Yeah,
[19:21] Mike: that's right. That's actually that's actually one of the things that makes me a little more skeptical here because because part of the skepticism is that is that she could think she had them and they weren't really like she didn't you know, she's not clear on what they are. And so that's part of the issue here. Um, but anyway, like again like I mean the, you know, the
[19:40] Mike: the first time you together, I just think it lowers the probability. So, like, OK, so if you if you're looking for, like, an overall probability score, I think I still would be like a 70% or something like, I'm not going to be a 99% because I have this, like, problem of like, Well, there's a serious things six times. First time with the partner, it's a little bit unusual. Only
[19:43] Keith: one of these, the Venn diagram in effect, intersectional
[19:46] Mike: small when you're having. Of course. Was she
[19:49] Mike: uh huh.
[19:57] Mike: One more thing about that. When you when she had them when you were having intercourse, Uh, did she touch herself?
[19:58] Keith: Ah,
[20:02] Keith: I think on one of them. Yes,
[20:09] Keith: but definitely it was one or none. There were times that she touched herself. I can't remember if
[20:11] Keith: she
[20:16] Keith: orgasm during while doing that or not.
[20:16] Keith: Yeah, so that's
[20:34] Mike: like, That's I think these things all lead. That's that's actually another independent variable that leads me to have to be a little bit lower. Is this thing of like It's like, just because statistically speaking, the odds of having one without any clitoral contact is kind of low. And so it's like you have this series of things. It's like, I don't know,
[20:39] Keith: maybe I have, like, an unusually shaped pubic bone. Do you?
[20:41] Keith: Well, how would I know?
[20:46] Keith: Uh, it's not something, but the thesis here is you can't tell visually.
[20:51] Mike: Yeah. You also already said that it was in multiple positions, right? And so, like
[20:56] Keith: your U s. So it's a little e. Yeah. Okay.
[21:07] Mike: I don't know. I mean, there's also like, Yeah, I mean she looked like When this type of thing goes on like she wants, she clearly wants to date you. She's interested in you. And so she has this incentive like there's a perverse incentive. Maybe I'm below 70.
[21:09] Mike: I'll say 70. You have some other things.
[21:15] Keith: You were talking you down. The further we get into this well, I can convince me because it's like she has such a
[21:18] Mike: strong incentive to say that to you and like,
[21:28] Mike: you know, and you were basically openly criticizing the probability by bringing the podcast up in the thing I set up. And so it's like, Well, she has an emotional incentive to basically convince
[21:34] Keith: you. Yeah, and then there's almost like kidnapping her. She's held hostage.
[21:49] Mike: Yeah, And then there's a separate issue that, like, you know, there there. Yeah, there's this issue that women aren't always clear on. What's going on because it isn't is obvious for a woman like for a man, you ejaculate. So it's like, Okay, I know, I know that was it. But for a woman, it's it could be it could be more challenging to understand it. But,
[22:00] Keith: you know, I'm not saying that like Obviously, if there was some sort of visual thing then, right, we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's what that's what makes this so
[22:01] Keith: so intriguing.
[22:17] Mike: I mean, all I can say, Keith, is that, like, if you do have another, uh, session with her, another date, you continue seeing her. You know, I think that would be really useful to, like, have even stronger proof evidence. I think anal contractions is very good evidence.
[22:21] Keith: Okay, Yeah. I'll bring my home memory machine next time. And we can You don't
[22:26] Mike: need that. You have. Ah, God gave you a finger.
[22:29] Keith: Uh oh, yeah. You made for the annual contractions. Yeah. Okay.
[22:36] Mike: Sure, sure. I mean, she she probably you know, I mean, I don't know what her Proclivities are, but she might be interested in,
[22:39] Mike: uh, yet Maura proving her point.
[22:48] Keith: Yeah. Okay. Well, uh, either I will introduce this topic to her that naturally or she'll hear this. You
[22:52] Mike: could look, you can always give her give me her phone number, and I'll talk to her.
[23:00] Keith: Yeah, that's gonna be a hard pass. All right, so let's move on to the next. You have anything else you want to say about this like
[23:05] Mike: I was very interesting And Bravo Bravo for your enjoyable encounter.
[23:13] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think, like, what percentage chance? I think, but everything is reported factually
[23:15] Keith: as's factual, as reported.
[23:24] Mike: I think that unless as long as you are interested in dating this young lady that you should that's radioactive. You should keep that under wraps. But maybe that
[23:30] Keith: should. Okay, so So you're you're you're somewhere between 60 and 70%.
[23:31] Keith: That's right. That's right. So it's
[23:39] Mike: believable. It's believable. It's plausible. It's not nothing there. That's crazy. But there are a number of things that are a little I don't know. So Okay,
[23:52] Keith: all right. So we have our usual assortment of topics from Reddit to to battle through. But we had some feedback from another person who,
[23:56] Keith: um, is actually a friend of mine. And she said
[24:05] Keith: she listened to the episode we had with Ali, and Ali said on that episode that the most number of orgasm she'd had in a day
[24:07] Keith: was Do you remember?
[24:08] Mike: I think it was
[24:10] Mike: It was a relatively low him. It
[24:10] Keith: was a number
[24:12] Mike: of man would potentially have was something like three.
[24:20] Keith: Yeah, I think she said three. And she said, You know, once in the morning, once in the in the afternoon and once in the evening
[24:23] Mike: Although she did say that like the
[24:25] Mike: the thing And I think this was Episode
[24:30] Mike: 22 21 was a couple episodes ago. But she did say that Ah,
[24:44] Mike: that, like the blocker, really isn't necessarily physical. It's like desire. Like she just doesn't think about it enough. And so, like, I think it really decided she was going to try for more. Like, I think there was no indication that it wasn't possible to do more.
[24:51] Keith: Yeah, yeah, this friend actually address that? She said she often thinks about
[25:01] Keith: masturbating when she's bored. Um, which is something that I definitely dio. Um, so anyway, this this this friends experience and alleys air
[25:02] Keith: sort of different.
[25:14] Keith: Um, anyway, this friend said, That's okay. That's the interesting part. She said that when she was 18, Eso that's like, you know, prime maxing out orgasm ing age. She says that she
[25:16] Keith: ah
[25:18] Keith: orgasm 15 times,
[25:34] Keith: and she says that the 15 times were over a period of about two hours, and she added that she could probably have Dunmore, but the orgasms became less pleasurable. And eventually she got sore. So she stopped.
[25:39] Mike: Okay, Yeah. I mean, there's I think there's more detail here that makes it more plausible, but yeah, Okay.
[25:41] Keith: Um,
[25:50] Keith: yeah, Let's see. So So I have she recorded a voice note for us here that I'm going to play here imminently. I'm trying to see if there's anything else
[25:57] Keith: interesting before I get into that. So, yeah, I asked her what the nature of her soreness was, and she said,
[25:58] Keith: Um,
[26:15] Keith: yeah, she said that it's the actual tissue around the clip that got sore. So if she she says, she probably could have prevented that if she used lube, she said also. And this was interesting, but made sense to me after she said it. She said that her fingers got tired and the muscles in her legs,
[26:19] Keith: and that totally makes sense to me. Like if you go 15 times in two hours like, yeah, there's gonna be like
[26:22] Mike: a fatigue aspect.
[26:32] Mike: Sure. I mean, it's like the Yeah, one of the things that makes us the most plausible. I think you more plausible and you said it yourself or you said it from what you said is that
[27:12] Mike: the pleasure decreased significantly on DSO became less and less compelling, which I think I mean, look, I don't know what the record for a man. I mean, like, I'm sure we could have somebody write in and tell us some guy would be like, Hey, God, it 47 times in two hours, I don't know. But generally my experience has been, and I think yours is the same is like the amount of pleasure you derive goes down pretty significantly. And to me, that's just obvious, because, like there's some sort of hormonal correlate to an orgasm like there's something there's some drug basically that your body is releasing internally that makes you have that euphoric experience. And it's like So when somebody says, Hey, I was ableto
[27:23] Mike: kind of make this thing happen a whole bunch of times, but like the last, many of them weren't very pleasurable. That's much more believable much, much more believable to me than somebody than the oft claimed, particularly in porn
[27:35] Mike: trope that they have ah, ton of them in every single one. Sometimes they're more play to get even more and more pleasure. That's where I think. No, you're not climaxing like you're just plateau ing. But go on.
[27:48] Keith: Yeah. So she goes into some detail on that in the voice notes. So yeah, and she added the attacks. That really mostly she stopped because the intensity of the orgasms diminishes a lot after, like number four or five,
[27:48] Keith: which,
[27:54] Mike: by the way, I think is pretty analogous to the male experience. I mean, getting to 15.
[28:12] Mike: Whatever. Or was that the number in two hours? That's extreme. I don't That's impressive. Yeah, and I'm not sure maybe an 18 year old guy could do something like that. That's a lot. But the thing I'm certain of is that whatever number he got to after, like Number three, it would be not very fun. Like it would just be kind of, Yeah, you wouldn't be get. You might
[28:17] Mike: get the, um, contractions to happen, but there would be no euphoric feeling. I
[28:20] Keith: have never gotten to the point in my
[28:23] Keith: marathon attempts where
[28:35] Keith: I actually where it's actually painful, like I've gotten where it's like a little bit painful, but still the good feelings or better than the bad, I could imagine getting to a point where it's just like, almost completely,
[28:37] Keith: um pleasurable. Yeah,
[28:41] Mike: so I've had I've had I would say, two things. One is that I've had the
[29:10] Mike: unpleasant herbal situation. Sorry, the painful situation. But the pain is usually like around the prostate. I think, in other words, like the muscles there get tired, Um, or the sort of Maybe that's maybe that's where, like the muscles are there, sort of controlling the blood flow to your direction so that that's like there's some kind of dull aching there. And the other thing is like you said, I absolutely have had the experience with no pleasure and also curiously, and I found this online is a thing. I've also experienced the no pleasure thing
[29:19] Mike: correlating with taking ibuprofen. We're taking like, pain killer drugs, like maybe a day or two later, like it's just not pleasurable it all. If I orgasm e think we've discussed this before? I don't know if
[29:23] Keith: you've ever discussed this. I have not paid enough attention
[29:27] Keith: than our sense thio corroborate or not, whether
[29:31] Mike: you do sometimes have this experience where, like you ejaculate, but it's just not, you know,
[29:39] Keith: that was Yes. Yeah, but I haven't paid attention to, like what my diet or habits were that that correlate with that? Now,
[29:53] Mike: I've noticed correlation there. And also, it doesn't seem to correlate with, like, the intensity of arousal. Like, sometimes you'll be very aroused. Yeah, a lot. You know, I ejaculated for me. Nothing like our guest, Eric, who
[30:11] Mike: could tip the scales at ah, lot of semen. But I would generate a normal, you know, nice amount, but it just doesn't feel like good. And yeah, at some point, it occurred to me that it was it related to taking painkillers, like a day or two before I was like, Oh, that's interesting. And apparently, that is a thing. If you look online, you'll find people citing that.
[30:13] Keith: That's like a pretty
[30:19] Keith: major reason not to take a nonsteroidal anti inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen or aspirin.
[30:22] Mike: Yeah, but maybe it's an uncommon situation. I I've never you know, I don't
[30:29] Keith: know. Yeah, maybe it's like one of these things that effects, you know, like drug commercials. Always say, like, you know, some people experience diarrhea and dry mouth and whatever, but
[30:34] Mike: I will say that, like, I have definitely had the experience of, like, I have a say, a small headache,
[30:36] Mike: and I think to myself,
[30:45] Mike: Oh, man, But do I wanna not have any good orgasms in a couple days? I thought that, but I mean, of course there's all Yeah, there are a number of reasons you would make that choice. But anyway,
[30:58] Keith: yes, it depends what's what's what's important in your life for those for those few days. Okay. All right, I'm gonna play this note, so yeah, just it's It's about two minutes long. You could stop me at any point, and, uh,
[31:08] Keith: let's see. Yeah, she's European. So English is like her fourth language, but her English is pretty good. So all right, I'm gonna I'm just gonna start playing this,
[31:13] Guest: okay? I'm too tired to type, and I don't have my computer on anymore. So
[31:14] Mike: sounds sexy. It's
[31:22] Guest: kind of right in saying that it can become actually difficult to kind of know
[31:30] Guest: when it's actually an orgasm or not, because the intensity really goes down a lot. And it's more like
[31:41] Guest: I don't know. It's more like a little kind of like sizing. It's like you're doing the right stuff and your body kind of feels it. And then it's like, Okay, I'm done. And
[31:41] Mike: where is it
[31:44] Guest: for, like, the first?
[32:03] Mike: So right there. That is a that is I think we can agree. An experience that differs pretty markedly from the male experience, like it's you're never a man is never going to be like, Oh, I'm on orgasm number N e don't know whether it is one or not like that. The muscular contractions are extremely obvious, wouldn't you say?
[32:06] Keith: Yes, I think she would contest
[32:09] Keith: that. She doesn't know whether it is one or not, but
[32:10] Mike: what she said,
[32:15] Mike: Well, like the pleasure goes down and it could be a little bit difficult to discern what's going on there.
[32:20] Keith: Yeah, I mean that those were her literal words, I guess. Yeah, that's true. E mean,
[32:35] Mike: okay. Regardless of whether this validates or invalidates her point, it's an interesting piece of information, like even for somebody who is like, and we'll see later in the voice clip place. She's very certain of her experience here, even for a woman that's very certain
[33:06] Mike: there could be some uncertainty when level of pleasure the level of experience kind of gets dialed way down. That is an interesting difference, Uh, to a man. And it makes me wonder like, Well, is that because Because there is this experience men have, which is like, you'll get near an orgasm and you'll have these sort of twitchy feelings and it is pleasurable, but it is not an orgasm or I wouldn't care characterized this one, and it makes me wonder, like you know, it is number nine through 16 or whatever here for her. Just that, like something that a guy would call like edging or something. But anyway,
[33:08] Keith: yeah,
[33:12] Keith: I don't know. All right, let's let her continue to explain.
[33:17] Guest: I don't know, four or five times It's really like, Yes, it's It's the actual thing.
[33:22] Guest: And about the does it become more difficult?
[33:34] Guest: This is a tricky question to answer because, first of all, I don't think I could do that anymore nowadays. But when I was like board and I don't know 18, I could still
[33:35] Guest: um
[33:44] Guest: so for me nowadays, kind of it goes away like I I just become, too.
[33:49] Guest: Yeah, it's like the also the thing that Ali said it's like it's too sensitive. After a while.
[34:00] Guest: Eso I don't think nowadays I could go beyond, like, six in a row, but it doesn't. It doesn't actually become more difficult.
[34:02] Guest: Um, it actually kind of more easy.
[34:08] Keith: Okay, I want to pause. This here sure does become more difficult for me,
[34:15] Keith: right? Like the first one is easiest. The second one is a little bit harder. Third, one harder still, it's It's probably actually exponentially harder.
[34:31] Mike: Yeah. I mean, there there's the There's something that I thought this is like the second time I've heard this clip. So there's something I thought the first time I heard it. Which was there? Two possible explanations there. One explanation is that Look, it's always easy and it stays easy. The second explanation is that
[34:56] Mike: that, I think, is somewhat more probable is that it's not that easy to begin with for her, right, So the first one requires a fair amount of effort and and then and then it continues to be a fair amount of effort, whereas for a man, the first one might require much less effort. Uh, and so then you get closer toe and and that would comport with, you know, a large amount of
[35:02] Mike: information you can get on the sex subreddit or just research that, like for women like
[35:04] Mike: arousal, takes a lot longer. Typically. Well, it
[35:07] Keith: sounds like it takes longer, but
[35:11] Keith: orgasm ing doesn't materially drop it that much.
[35:15] Keith: So like subsequent orgasms are easier because you're already
[35:16] Keith: warmed up.
[35:27] Mike: Yeah, that differs. I mean, that does significantly differ from alleys, alleys, um, report. Which was that? He said. She said that it it dropped a lot and,
[35:32] Mike: yeah, she basically almost she almost described as having to start over because of the high sensitivity. And there's something this lady Didn't she
[35:40] Keith: say Hold on, Hold on. Didn't alley say that she does occasionally orgasm twice in single sexual encounters?
[35:47] Keith: She said it was rare, like maybe she even said she couldn't like, count how many times it had happened on two hands. I don't remember, but
[35:48] Keith: I feel like,
[36:09] Mike: sure, but I think my recollection is that the important thing about it, or like the thing that was sort of the thing that sticks in my memory is her saying that like, she kind of had to start over. It was something that reminded me of my own experience, like it's kind of like you go back down to some kind of significantly lower level of arousal on. You have to kind of build back up like it's not It's not riding a wave.
[36:10] Keith: Yeah. Okay.
[36:14] Keith: Okay. All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna continue. Here we go.
[36:17] Guest: So and also the refraction period is like,
[36:23] Guest: there's another thing I wanted to comment on is because she said she needs, like, a minute off
[36:27] Guest: a minute or two minutes off, not touching at all.
[36:28] Guest: And
[36:32] Guest: some days, I also need that. But some other days,
[36:35] Guest: you can just keep going
[36:37] Guest: and it doesn't really make a difference.
[36:52] Guest: And if if you know, you catch one of thes days and you can keep going, you can actually get to something. Like, I guess that woman meant with riding the wave because you kind of stay at very high
[36:55] Guest: arousal stage, so to speak.
[36:59] Guest: And you can just get the second off within, like,
[37:01] Guest: I know 30 seconds to a minute.
[37:07] Guest: But the interesting thing is like, after that, you need you need a couple minutes before you can go again. So that's kind of my experience.
[37:10] Keith: Okay, so
[37:24] Keith: what? Alright, So that implies that there's basically two different modes of orgasm, right? Like there's this one where it's intense and then, you know, your I don't know if it's sore or over sensitive and you need, like, a minute to like,
[37:29] Keith: you know, refractor or calm down. And then there's other times where
[37:33] Keith: you orgasm or quote unquote orgasm. And then,
[37:42] Keith: yeah, you're on like this wave like you're sort of surfing. You know how like surfers sort of like Well, like pump their board a little bit. Thio, Keep going. Uh,
[37:43] Keith: yeah, I
[37:49] Mike: don't I'm trying to think I'm trying to decide whether I've ever had an experience like that in my life, and I think it's possible that I have
[37:52] Mike: like that where you basically
[37:55] Mike: climax once and then like you.
[38:01] Mike: I don't know if within a minute, but I think it's possible in my life that I've had the experience of it being within.
[38:08] Mike: I've certainly had the experience of not losing my erection in any meaningful way. That's definitely happened to me. Okay,
[38:12] Keith: me too. But I think it's mawr that I'm having
[38:15] Keith: like a not full orgasm the first time,
[38:20] Keith: like something gets gummed up in the works or
[38:23] Keith: I don't know. I'm not sure exactly. I think I
[38:29] Mike: would. I basically Yeah. I mean, like, I think There I think what you're saying there has some insight is insightful in the sense that it's like,
[38:36] Mike: I think, I think a wayto imagine it is. There's a certain amount of whatever that's gonna get produced in your body
[38:47] Mike: and yeah, I mean, like, there's this question of whether you use up so much that you lose arousal and like, Yeah, it's possible that there's a lot to start with because you're super excited. I mean, and frankly, like in your the first
[38:58] Mike: ah, story with the woman who told you you were good at sex? Um, the yeah. I mean, like, you could argue the like a boy.
[39:24] Mike: The best is sort of the superlative of good, but sure, sure. You were the best. The best. Thanks, Mike. I hope you don't break up with her, My God, for her first, my goodness or vice versa. But, um, the your first time, you're going to be more excited. I mean, this is what you know, men sort of seek out this, Uh, that's kind of the kind of novelty because it makes you more expected. And so it's entirely possible that, like there's just so much more build up that then there is like enough for two and
[39:25] Guest: so that I don't
[40:09] Mike: know. I mean, it's not This is not again. This isn't implausible to me. It's, you know, she's saying that, Yeah, like occasionally you'll have a situation where there's two. She also said that it's not like seven, which I like that I like the fact that she didn't She said, Look, you know, one or two, right? Right, And and the two is sort of unusual. It's like, Okay, that because I think is a man like that's not unstained experience. The thing that's in its that's hard for a man to believe, I think is, yeah, this this surfing a wave and it's like, Oh, you know, on the sex sober, you'll see all the time. You know, I had 22 you're like, 23 equally powerful within, say, five minutes or 10 minutes and you go well, that's just because because I started asking myself, Where are all those hormones coming from? Like like what's going on?
[40:11] Keith: Yeah, I mean,
[40:16] Keith: oh I am skeptical of that as well. I I think
[40:20] Keith: I don't know, Like maybe the big reveal here is that there's, like,
[40:38] Keith: two modes of orgasms, right? There's sort of like a half one or one that one that precipitates Ah, writing of a wave. And then there's, um or sort of classic one where, you know, it's an intense release and, yeah, go ahead. Have you ever
[40:41] Mike: had the experiences I've had? This is Well, we're like,
[40:57] Mike: You're this is Yeah, Actually, this is an interesting question you've had. I've had the experience where I'm ejaculating, which I like. It's fun. I enjoy that experience ejaculated e Do It's good anyway. So let's say I'm on, uh, contraction
[41:17] Mike: for, say, and usually the not normal male experiences. Kind of. There's a peak one to the first couple. Things sort of tails off, right? I mean, the first couple of the most intense I've had an experience before, and I had it recently, actually, which is making me think of this where it was like one and two are great. Three was a little lower, and then four actually amped back up again. Have you had that
[41:20] Keith: happen before
[41:25] Keith: not to my recollection, but
[41:26] Keith: why do you think?
[41:27] Keith: I mean,
[41:33] Keith: maybe because you were inspecting it so carefully, there's almost, like, a psychosomatic thing now, okay? No,
[41:37] Mike: because it was because the way I actually experience it is that it's like
[41:46] Mike: it's like it feels like it feels like there's just so much semen that my body is like. All right, I gotta I feel like I'm not gonna get this all out unless I like.
[42:01] Mike: Unless I generate some more stronger contractions on the tail end here. That's the sort of experience. And so it's notable because it's like, Well, yeah, it's just seems like there's more coming out than usual on that's the mode in which that happens sometimes for May.
[42:19] Keith: Okay, okay, So I have one more short clip from our friend in Europe here, and I suggested to her that you might be skeptical of her ability to recognize when orgasm is. And I think I specifically used the word that you the word confused. So I'm gonna play. Yeah, that that appears to
[42:30] Mike: be something our lovely listeners that enrages some of our listeners because we've gotten this feedback. Things is this has made a number of women dislike me. This'll Yes. Oh,
[42:37] Keith: yes. Oh, yes. So here she is, defending herself against the accusation of not knowing what a female or doesn't.
[42:40] Mike: I did not make that accusation. Accusation would be
[42:43] Keith: accusation. Okay, here we go.
[42:49] Guest: But then he also has to call me confused. And I can I mean, I can't.
[43:02] Guest: It can, of course, prove it. I'm not confused, E. Really, I'm not confused. Like off course. Yes. The intensity goes down
[43:11] Guest: and maybe maybe along the lines off, you know, your have orgasm kind of thing for the guy,
[43:18] Guest: but it certainly is one. It certainly is. I'm not confused on that.
[43:25] Mike: Yeah, a couple of things. One is one is. I mean, yeah, that's plausible. Second, she could prove it there. Things she could do to prove it. Um,
[43:29] Keith: we back into the finger in the butt hole or the m r I machine.
[43:50] Mike: No, no, m r. I mean, that's absurd. Obviously a that's crazy. But, you know, I think there are things she could do to prove it. I think if she if she was, she thought creatively about the situation. And also, like, um, yeah, I mean? Like, look, if this is what if what it takes to get to call in and describe their orgasms is for me to be skeptical of them, that I feel even better about being
[44:02] Keith: skeptical the world's premier or ah, female orgasm Skeptic? Yes, that's right. It was like a line around the block, like demanding to prove their orgasms to you. That's
[44:11] Mike: right. Listen, ladies, like I don't believe in any of this. So I need I need proof. And yes, yeah, quite true. Calling in life.
[44:21] Keith: Okay, We have, like, I don't know, 15 or 20 minutes here. Let's let's get to some A couple topics from Reddit. So this person says watching a woman masturbate, is it actually turn on?
[44:38] Keith: So I masturbated for my boyfriend on video chat, and I decided to put the camera up to my pussy so he could see me grinding against the vibrator. Eventually, my pussy was soaked. Sounds like it was written by a man, but all right, while I was doing it, he kept commenting on how beautiful it looked to watch me play with myself. His amazing
[44:58] Keith: how amazing and good it looks. When my vibrator was glistening and sliding up and down between my lips and stuff. He stopped touching himself so I could finish first parentheses, she says, So sweet. And then he came, like, 45 seconds after I did. So is this something that is actually hot or beautiful to watch? Or is this just something to make me feel good?
[44:59] Keith: Was it
[45:06] Mike: Wait, Was this on video chatter in real life? I'd miss that. This is, uh, over video chat.
[45:16] Mike: So that's what we've come to. That's what that's what happening now is people are Yeah, like the covert date. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What are your thoughts on this?
[45:18] Keith: Um,
[45:19] Keith: let's see.
[45:24] Keith: I think watching my partner
[45:26] Keith: masturbate herself
[45:28] Keith: would be hot. Yeah, sure. Fine. Yeah.
[45:35] Mike: Do you think it's hotter or less hot if she's using a vibrator
[45:39] Mike: less? Yeah, that's what I think, too. And why do you have any thoughts on that?
[45:41] Keith: Um,
[45:44] Keith: I don't like that a vibrator could do something that I can't.
[45:51] Mike: Oh, my goodness. I didn't know I was gonna go there. Okay, so this is back, right? Right. Okay. Things is insecurity,
[45:57] Keith: like some people in this world have, you know, mild insecurities that they wrestle with, you know,
[46:08] Mike: you know. No, I don't either. But not I don't. I don't enjoy it that much, say, on a campsite or whatever. But it's not because it makes me feel insecure. It's because, like, I just don't find the
[46:11] Mike: I don't find the visual that compelling. It's like
[46:13] Mike: I don't know, like not much is happening right?
[46:14] Mike: You feel like you
[46:21] Keith: can see mawr of what you came to see without the vibrator, including the view Or What do you mean,
[46:33] Mike: no? I mean, well, it's just not moving. I mean, like the typical First of all, it's not gonna be highly unlikely to be penetrated. I'm imagining like one of those back massagers like the kind of well, a typical one that
[46:46] Mike: some women use is some Captain. I don't know the model number, but it's ah, back massager that, like, kind of as a bulb at the end, like a ball at the end, and then a handle they hold right and basically what you do with it,
[46:48] Keith: that actually a back massager. I think that's just
[46:50] Keith: well vibrated.
[46:53] Keith: I think they're gonna start. Is it marketed as a
[47:01] Keith: I know there were like in the fifties, there were vibrators. They were marketed as back massagers. But e think over that reason
[47:12] Mike: far more recently. No. I mean, if you're gonna get one at Costco or something, it's gonna be marketed. Is it, uh, you know, and and frankly, it's probably a lot cheaper if its soldiers a back massager, to be honest, but
[47:17] Keith: yeah, that's true. You don't have to pay the so called pink tax.
[47:27] Mike: True. Very good point eso. Anyway, So the typical thing will just It's just sort of held there, right, Like, sort of at the junction there. And it's it's not going to work,
[47:32] Mike: right? So I mean, like, if you like that, Yeah, one of the realities. So So the problem
[47:41] Mike: like, Look, maybe this guy is telling the truth and he's like, Hey, this is my favorite thing to watch. But the thing about it is like if you go on a porn site and you watch
[47:43] Mike: female masturbation videos like
[47:56] Mike: the ones that seem more realistic, like just not much happens now the ones that are more entertaining where they're like penetrating themselves with various things or like rubbing themselves furiously like kind of changing what they do a lot. Making it interesting
[47:59] Mike: probably aren't riel, right? I mean, because that's not actually
[48:05] Mike: typically what works, right? Yeah. So, yeah,
[48:07] Keith: yeah. I mean, I think
[48:09] Keith: Mhm.
[48:10] Keith: Yeah. I mean,
[48:27] Keith: the mechanics of, like, what's actually going on in the like, you know, 100 square pixel box of her vagina on the video. Chat aside? Yeah, like, I think the thing that makes this turn on is like their They're sort of like performing for you. Like, I think this is why
[48:29] Keith: people like,
[48:34] Keith: you know, these private chat rooms and chatter bait is that the
[48:49] Keith: They can sort of delude themselves into thinking that this person is masturbating for them. Um, but what is your actual partner like? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of cool to watch them jerk off. So, you know, especially if it's in your name or for your benefit.
[48:53] Mike: Sure. I mean, it's also very difficult. It would be very difficult for me as a man
[49:05] Mike: to divorce that from the reality of what he's showing her, which is very clear, like that is not something that most people want to see is a guy
[49:12] Mike: a square box of a man doing that is not? Yeah. I mean, value commodity. Put it that way.
[49:13] Mike: Yeah,
[49:16] Keith: I have a topic about that. But
[49:30] Keith: let's let's hold off on that for a minute. So I wanna I wanna ask you something. This is not from Reddit. This is like something that I came up with on my own. So we've talked a lot about blowjobs on this show. Um,
[49:53] Mike: when, by the way, Ali never actually had the opportunity to try to persuade you. She she She said we forgot to do that for any of the episode where she was on. She was gonna persuade you that she does like giving them and then and then never happened. So e, I mean, we really should try to get her to come on and try to do that persuasion. I Maybe I could moderate and and maybe give some time for it Might change your life.
[50:08] Keith: Yeah. I mean, yeah, just reminder to our newer listeners. Yeah, I find it difficult to believe that women really enjoy giving men blowjobs. And obviously e can intellectualize that I'm wrong about this, But
[50:11] Keith: I can Yeah. Father might feel about it.
[50:20] Mike: This is one of the few situations. Maybe not so few, but it's one of the situations where I, uh Yeah, like I do believe the women. Yeah, so I don't know. I don't always think you guys are lying.
[50:41] Keith: Okay, so you know, So I have not had, like, if the average man has had an orgasm are and blow jobs in his life like I've probably had and divided by 10 and divided by 20 you know, far fewer. Um, how do you Here's my question. How do you negotiate blowjob intent? So when somebody starts blowing you,
[50:54] Keith: how do you know if it's if they want you to come or not? And like, what's the base level assumption? If nothing's been, then explicitly said,
[50:55] Keith: I mean, I think
[50:59] Mike: that that you're basically asking whether it's like the final act of the foreplay.
[51:00] Mike: Yeah.
[51:10] Mike: I mean, so first of all, I think I think it matters. This is just typical for guys, right? It matters a lot what her state is right. So whether she's been taken care off, Right? So that's going thio.
[51:16] Keith: Okay, so where it falls in the sort of order of events?
[51:27] Mike: Yeah. I mean, the other thing that's weird about your question is it implies that the woman is kind of directing the action in a way that I think is a little bit No, I mean, look many, many different styles of things happening. This
[51:29] Keith: thing, I know where you're going here, but go on, Go on, go on. I
[51:36] Mike: just feel like you're kind of being submissive. You're like, Oh, I'm just gonna wait to see what she wants to do. And it's like, Well, that's not typical, right? I mean, typically, it's like
[51:40] Keith: most men initiate
[51:42] Keith: blow jobs.
[51:49] Keith: I think that I mean, it sort of depends on whatever, like most often, usually
[51:53] Mike: no, I know I wouldn't say that. I would say that
[51:57] Mike: I would. I would not say that I would say that It's like kind of an obvious, like
[52:05] Mike: part of what goes on in the situation and like, it's not totally obvious whose direct directing it, however, the
[52:10] Keith: imagining various ways of insinuating your dick towards Oh, well,
[52:22] Mike: there's like the you know, there's the almost trope or meme on reddit of the guys who were like just pushing down with their hand, you know, like of course, the irony there is that, like
[52:41] Mike: sometimes you know, it really is so psychologically dependent, dependent on context, right? Some women will say, I hate that someone will say they like it And frankly, you know that like it depends on the guy, right? Like it's it's situational like sometimes they'll have a relationship with works for them. The same woman might find it really bothersome with a different guy because of the nature of their relationship. So it's tricky. Um,
[52:43] Keith: but it does. But I would say
[52:57] Mike: that most of the time it's gonna be the woman you know, initiating that. But the way it goes into the sort of orchestration of the whole event is going to usually be more up to the man, right, Although maybe not in your world, maybe in your world, it's the woman orchestrating the
[53:01] Keith: event. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't
[53:13] Keith: I'm not looking to get blown. And so you know, I'm guessing that like most normal men have an array of strategies and tactics that they used to sort of
[53:15] Keith: insinuate that
[53:24] Keith: in tow happening. But if anything, I have, like an array of like, you know, Chaffin flares like defense mechanisms to stop it from happening. So
[53:32] Mike: I mean, you want to clue us in, Like what? What do you do as a man? Because I think this is unusual. What do you do to sort of prevent that from happening?
[53:38] Keith: How do you How do you stop a hungry woman for blowing you? Um, yeah.
[53:40] Keith: I mean,
[53:49] Keith: what what do I dio? I mean, you know, So oftentimes, you know, you just have toe Say, you know Hey, you know you, me, I
[53:58] Keith: we'll say, You know, look, I'm just not that comfortable with blowjobs, Especially in early sexual encounters. Onda, then really? You say that.
[53:59] Keith: Uh huh.
[54:17] Keith: That's gotta be You have to say it, Mike, right? Like, you know, you could, like, try to insinuate, you know, move your hips. You know, back. You know, uh, if you feel like she's making a move, you could, you know, make a counter move or whatever, but, you know, at some point, you know, she notices and
[54:18] Keith: okay,
[54:27] Mike: so you do have other techniques. You use those other things you said them. So they must be what you do. You sort of move. You kind of do it in a more passive way. And then you that
[54:34] Keith: works against that only works against weak opponents, right? Like, you know, most people are actually trying
[54:37] Keith: to give me a blow job. And in that case
[54:47] Keith: there, yeah, they'll be persistent until, yeah, a conversation almost not almost always, I guess, almost always ends up being necessary.
[54:52] Mike: Yeah. I mean, like, Well, I mean, first of all, I would say that
[54:57] Mike: I think it's likely that when you say that to a woman, it's the first time she's ever heard that.
[55:01] Mike: I think it's likely, like it's not 100% but I think it's likely. And it makes me wonder like I
[55:04] Keith: have some thoughts on that. Go ahead. Yeah,
[55:09] Keith: yeah, I mean, I think, Yeah, I think they think I'm like trying to virtue signal,
[55:14] Keith: but they don't actually believe that I actually don't want a blowjob.
[55:27] Keith: They think I'm just trying to be nice and, you know, whatever on DSO. And so then they say, you know, So So that's my like, pawn to, you know, Queen to or I don't know how chess works, but on then what they'll say is,
[55:34] Keith: you know, no, but I really want to, but like my whole my whole hang up is that I think they're performing that they want Thio.
[55:42] Keith: And so you know, you know, you know, then we get into, you know, move forward and stuff, but yeah, it's it's a It's a weird little dance.
[55:58] Mike: Yeah, I mean, I'm certain that you're wrong about that, and that's why we need to have someone come on to try to convince you. But But to the question of there was this other question which was How do you How do you How do you how does like the orchestration happen around like Whether that's going to be the final act, which for you it you're saying it's like almost never
[56:03] Mike: correct. In fact, in some ways it seems like maybe a woman
[56:10] Mike: would view this. And I think you've told me this before. Like the notion that a woman will view this is like, Well, I'm going to get him to let me finish You know, Thio,
[56:15] Mike: go do this to completion like that's happened you before, right? Where, like it becomes a challenge.
[56:16] Keith: Yes, it has. Yeah,
[56:20] Mike: like she's like maybe maybe he tastes really weird. Maybe there's like some
[56:22] Mike: problem.
[56:40] Mike: Um, no. But I could see that I could see that Blue E. I just think like I think, the way So the orchestration that I think is really simple. It's like, look like it's common in the act for that to start happening at some point. And then the guy just has to make the decision for for most men where they don't find it repellent or uncomfortable.
[56:50] Mike: The guy's decision. Yeah, I know it was fun to say repellent, though, Uh, the guy has to make a decision about whether, like to
[56:57] Mike: continue their or to move onto a different activity. And that's I think that's basically how the orchestration works is very simple. It's just the guy. Either
[57:06] Mike: initiate something else where he doesn't And if he doesn't, I don't honestly, I mean, like, I don't think the woman cares that much like It doesn't mean, look, if she doesn't want,
[57:13] Mike: you know, to swallow or whatever, that's one thing. But let's say she doesn't care. Like I just don't think she cares that much where your semen goes.
[57:35] Keith: Yeah, I think there's some set of women. It's It's less than 50% probably weigh less than 50%. That probably don't actually like blowjobs. And it sort of depends on the partner to, but, you know, a lot things being equal don't really like blowjobs. And then the majority of women do. And for them, yeah, I think it's like a zoo, long as
[57:39] Keith: they're quote unquote satisfied. Um,
[57:44] Keith: I don't think they mind that much. Like they Yeah, they get in, they get get into pleasure giving mode.
[57:45] Keith: I mean, we've discussed
[58:04] Mike: this before rifle like, I mean, one of the key advantages that I could see. I mean, I'm not gay, and I'm not a woman, but a key advantage I can see is like, it's we've discussed this before. The notion that it's like a really direct way to experience your orgasm, the guys, right? I mean, it's like they're participating more. Yeah, and some people, like,
[58:11] Keith: I mean, I definitely don't argue that it's not a direct direct is a funny you visit there, but yeah. So
[58:19] Mike: if there was a woman where you were 100% sure that it was desired than your hang up would go away or is there something more to it? than that.
[58:27] Keith: Ah, difficult to set up that hypothetical situation. But I do enjoy the feeling of
[58:29] Keith: having my Penis in someone's mouth. Let me.
[58:32] Mike: Okay. Let me give you any hypothetical. Let's say there was a woman,
[58:34] Mike: uh, maybe a woman who's listening.
[58:40] Keith: Maybe one urinating. Maybe we could get there with, like, let's say it's a machine or like a,
[58:53] Mike: uh, let's say it was a woman and you're with her. And she's and she wants She wants to get off and she's masturbating near you, and she's like, Look, the thing that's gonna get me off is to have your dick in my mouth.
[58:54] Mike: Uh huh.
[58:56] Mike: Has that ever happened to you?
[58:58] Keith: Ah,
[59:03] Keith: I mean, I've had people make the argument that they are very aroused by,
[59:08] Mike: but you've never actually basically be like, look like I'm not going to get there without this.
[59:12] Keith: No, I don't think I've had that specific. Yeah,
[59:15] Mike: so it seems like a woman should probably do that.
[59:20] Keith: Anyway, they're gonna extort a blowjob out of me, or I'm
[59:24] Mike: just trying to help you out, man. Give tips to whoever might be
[59:33] Keith: listening, taking notes. Okay. All right. I didn't know if we would have time for this, but I think we do this. This, um
[59:48] Keith: this This man writes women. What would you want in a nude from a male partner? I've talked to my girlfriend about sending nudes to each other. We're both very interested in both sending and receiving. Here's the problem. Her nudes, air, goddamn high art, the lighting, the lingerie, the poses.
[59:55] Keith: And I just want to respond in kind. But I have no idea what to dio. My monkey brain just goes send Penis. But I know that's really appreciated.
[60:00] Keith: And yes, communication is key. I know, but she's quite uncomfortable talking about stuff like this.
[60:03] Keith: This has 5000 votes.
[60:04] Keith: Um,
[60:09] Keith: Well, do you have any initial thoughts here? I can. I can read some of the responses there.
[60:13] Mike: I know what the answer is. The answer is basically like, Look,
[60:15] Mike: there is a small set of men,
[60:22] Mike: a small set of men, probably under 10% where this would work. But it has nothing to do with the lighting. In fact, like
[60:33] Mike: spending a bunch of time on clothing and lighting is like you've already missed the point. Like if you want her to appreciate that If you wanna be, then then what you want is you want to have a new body that
[60:42] Mike: the generic woman would appreciate. So think of like Olympic swimmer, like obviously not Olympic swimmer But, like imagine that kind of body, like so,
[60:58] Mike: Like the thing that is attractive in a man. A male body is defined musculature, you know, obviously like, well, groomed, like these sorts of things. But like a soon as you fall away from that like, Yeah, I mean, it's Zatz, the equivalent of the woman having
[61:01] Mike: ample breasts. Okay,
[61:15] Keith: let's assume this guy. Let's stipulate this guy is in good shape. Like what? Like what? What camera angle Should he be wearing clothes? Where is he? Is he erect? Uh, like
[61:29] Mike: now, I don't think I think that I think that my personal opinion on this is like any sort of emphasis on the penises. You immediately have gotten confused, like so I mean, wearing a towel. Let's say let's say that you are in good shape, and wearing a towel coming out of the shower would be just compelling.
[61:33] Keith: Yeah, alright, leave something to the imagination. It's not
[62:08] Mike: that it's just like look the issue here. See, what you did is you took away the actual issue. You said, Oh, let's imagine he's in good shape. He's not. That's the actual issue, right? So it's like, Look, when you have somebody who doesn't like a man who isn't in good shape just doesn't look good, period. And so there's just nothing you could do about it, right? It's like, look like you're you don't look good. Um, women have the advantage that men are much, much, much more interested in there. Body parts there, reproductive body parts than women are in men's reproductive body parts. So a woman who doesn't look so good isn't in shape or whatever can get away with that. A man just can't. That's my take.
[62:09] Keith: Yeah,
[62:17] Keith: that sounds about right. I'm still Well, okay, Alright, let me read a couple these comments because they're entertaining. So the number one of voted comment,
[62:31] Keith: and I suspect it's number one up voted because it's women up voting this because this isn't something that I would have voted as a man. But this person says, firstly, clean your room and make your bed pretty much 90% of guy nudes have bare mattresses and heaps of dirty clothes, and it's rank.
[62:41] Keith: Boehner's underneath boxers air good, Boehner outlines. Underneath jeans and fabric are alluring. Make sure you include a good amount of flex thigh or stomach.
[62:47] Mike: Sure, I mean the last part. Well, I mean, obviously like dirty surroundings. I mean, it's like, Hey, look,
[62:48] Mike: you
[62:57] Keith: ever notice that background surroundings and like a female nude like I don't even e She may as well be on Mars, and I wouldn't notice it being a little alien behind her, and I wouldn't even notice it.
[63:03] Mike: And we'll look, if it was, If the guy looked like Michael Phelps, she wouldn't notice it, either.
[63:08] Mike: That's the thing it's like it's like, Yeah, because because it's not interest. It's not fundamentally very interesting. So sure, I wanders immediately.
[63:14] Keith: They use like I tracking software. It if it's if it's looking at the background of the room you've already lost.
[63:25] Mike: Yeah, I mean, I think most I think I think pretty much every man out there could just immediately ask himself which categories and he'll they all know. And so then you know, there are few people on the bubble, but like,
[63:26] Mike: yeah,
[63:40] Keith: Yeah, Okay. All right. Uh, this person says Sorry to answer this, but I am a bisexual guy. If that helps, Ha ha. And sorry, if you're into your tech and this insult your intelligence, this person spells
[63:43] Keith: you're wrong every time.
[63:54] Keith: It's impressive, given it's 50 50. Each time you try to use it, set your phone or laptop up to video. The bed laptop is more ideal is you can see what it's capturing.
[64:30] Keith: It's it's missing a parentheses to If using, I'm getting distracted. Sorry if using the lapse the laptop, then video. If using the laptop, then video yourself doing various poses. You'll feel silly, but no, no one is around. So don't worry. Hold each post for a few seconds at a time. You've PLC media player to play the video back on top of the player. You should see different menu options, one of them says video. When playing the video back, hit the pause button on one year poses than click video and you'll see a drop down menu. This is I'm going through this because it because it gets to a punch line at the bottom of that menu is the word takes snapshots. Simply snapshot the pause screen on every one of your poses.
[64:34] Keith: You ought to save your pictures. And hey, presto! Just transfer the pictures, your phone and send
[64:38] Keith: Just imagine this guy in his, like, weird bedroom
[64:41] Keith: immaculately cleaned,
[64:47] Keith: you know, doing these poses and then, you know, going frame by frame through his video to capture screenshots like e.
[64:49] Keith: But a woman Who was she?
[64:54] Mike: Well, that is the really Okay, So he's a bisexual man. Um,
[65:02] Mike: he's probably sending these two men, not the women on. I just want to say that that's exactly what you just described is exactly what women dio go on.
[65:04] Keith: Well,
[65:06] Keith: I know, I know. Yeah,
[65:09] Mike: they go through all the time. It's
[65:14] Keith: healthy graveyard for every selfie that you receive. Like it would be alarming.
[65:18] Mike: You'd be alarmed at how few selfies I received, but yeah,
[65:23] Keith: well, that I was using the Royal Royal U s. So
[65:34] Keith: anyway, this guy doesn't give any specific advice. He does say, as for what poses you should do, I don't know if I could be of much help, maybe start fully dressed and with each post, removed more clothing until the inevitable.
[65:39] Keith: Also I have never met a woman that didn't appreciate set in boxers. Ha ha. Good luck and have fun.
[65:51] Mike: Yeah. I mean, like, Yeah, so So I'm thinking more of the gay than the heterosexual element of this guy who says he's bisexual, but like, to me, like, and I actually don't know this, but I assume from all my life experiences
[65:53] Mike: that, uh,
[65:59] Mike: gang men are men. And so they like hetero men are interested in the,
[66:09] Mike: um, body parts of other men in a way, the women kind of art. And so, like, I'm not sure that his feedback is that on point for what a woman would like. But
[66:14] Keith: all right, if there is, there is a comment from a woman here. This one has.
[66:25] Keith: I don't know why this isn't showing up his on top, but this one is 6000 up votes. Ah, and she says, Oh, my God, Guy nudes. I love guy nudes I've been doing I've been dying
[66:28] Keith: f kr
[67:01] Keith: this conversation with my man. I don't know. That means an important These are all things I'd love to see more of your right and not taking a picture of your PP and sending it to her. It's good, but Matt, you can definitely do better. After all, she is an angel into her picks. You can be, too. Most girls have something about men they love. Backs are typical abs and ice chest, some body part. They're attracted to find out your girls and use it. They get super hot when my hunk flexes and I could see his cock plus his arms or his torso to but also his face. He's so handsome, I'd hate to miss out on his face. Also, try props,
[67:20] Keith: grind on a pillow and take your sleeping bag and take a photo with the Time Countdown and Snapchat Take what if you unbuckling your belt laying on the floor in bed? Tell her what you want to do while taking a video of you playing with yourself. Are rubbing yourself through your shorts through the shorts thing is sort of interesting.
[67:20] Keith: Yeah, I
[67:24] Mike: mean, they're looking for something suggestive without the
[67:36] Mike: the actual reveal. Yeah, E. I mean, like, first of all, I mean, I guess the thing to say would be r i p her inbox. Yeah, if that a woman but like I just think that like her, doesn't
[67:39] Keith: matter. She's a woman or not. She definitely got like, 1000 nudes after posting that, I
[67:55] Mike: assume so. And I mean, the things she said were Don't even make sense to me. I mean, for the most part, it's like, Look, face, abs, chest, you know, Audie part. But But again, like it's like if they look tear like if you're if you're £100 overweight, none of this is going to be compelling. So
[68:03] Keith: yeah, Okay. All right. I'm gonna close out this threat and maybe even this episode of this. This person says, Finally, it's so hot to hear a guy coming
[68:10] Keith: if you and her up to it sent her a video of you moaning men Moaning is one of the world's greatest treasures. And it's a shame a lot of men tend to be quiet,
[68:13] Keith: knowing you're going to get off to her.
[68:23] Keith: I wager. Well, I wager, make her feel sexy and full, and it make anyone's toes curl. So, yeah, that's sort of a throw back to our previous discussions about
[68:26] Keith: giving some horrible feedback. E
[68:48] Mike: believe that. Ah, lot of this stuff, like falls in that category of like it's its's a very by motile category. It's interesting. It's like if it's from the guy that you're interested in, all these things are really compelling. But if you imagine getting it from a random guy, it's like terrifying and horrible, right? It's like the worst thing that ever happened to you. Like I like if somebody just started sending me text messages of audios of themselves, moaning,
[68:58] Mike: Uh, and if I was a woman who probably like 10 times worse, But as a man, I would be pretty non plussed by that as a woman. I would be probably frightened anyway,
[69:02] Mike: whereas if a woman if women started doing that I don't know. I mean,
[69:07] Mike: it would be it would be weird also, but if I got that from women, it would be better. Better than men. Yeah.
[69:09] Keith: Yeah. Have you ever had
[69:11] Keith: phone sex?
[69:21] Keith: Oh, sure. Catch your long ago. I had not until fairly recently. I was
[69:25] Keith: very, very pleasantly surprised by
[69:29] Keith: how much I enjoyed it. Like hearing her,
[69:30] Keith: um,
[69:34] Keith: you know, moan and stuff was really very
[69:36] Keith: great.
[69:36] Keith: You
[69:40] Mike: didn't find the post? Not clarity to kind of rough, though, Like What did I just dio?
[69:42] Mike: Um,
[69:49] Mike: e think I remember that? I think I remember the element of like because, I mean, at the end. Where where are you? Just on a Were you on a video conference or just audio?
[69:52] Keith: No audio. I think I would be afraid.
[69:58] Keith: I don't know about afraid, but I would be much more self conscious to
[70:01] Keith: masturbate in front of someone on video and on the phone.
[70:08] Mike: Although, Keith, I mean, you and I both know that the listener account for our podcast would go up a lot if you had a sex tape.
[70:13] Keith: Yeah, well, or the oral sex tape. That's right.
[70:15] Keith: Um,
[70:23] Keith: anyway, no, I just bring that up because, yeah, I think hearing a woman moan is pretty. Could be pretty red.
[70:25] Keith: Sure depends on the woman, of course.
[70:35] Mike: Yeah. No, I mean, I think Yeah. I mean, I think that generally was a positive experience. I just It's just you typically remember what happened afterward, and I think I remember having negative post nut clarity there.
[70:36] Keith: Yeah.
[70:38] Keith: I mean,
[70:48] Keith: yeah. I mean, yeah, there's always a tiny amount of I don't know if it's regret or shame or or something that happens after an orgasm. But it's,
[70:51] Keith: you know, you just got to keep fighting through Mike.
[70:53] Mike: I do. I fight the good fight on that.
[71:07] Keith: Yeah, well on. And we will both continue doing so. So that will do it for Episode 24 of your mileage may vary. We're always happy to receive feedback. You can leave it at Y m m the pod at gmail dot com