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Episode 27: Milking Tables, Ally's Blowjob Enjoyment, Vibrator Need, Fingering Tips, Clit Size

Team YMMV | 1-29-2021 | 1:02:26

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Keith and Ally are introduced to the milking table, or as they call it, "The Horizontal Glory Hole"

What percent of women genuinely enjoy giving blowjobs versus doing it just out of obligation or to seduce their partners? And, are men honest when they compliment women on their technique?

Are vibrators for all women, or do many prefer using their own fingers? And what's the right technique?

To follow along with the video discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/27/milking-table

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/27/vibrator-need

https://ymmv.me/27/men-going-down

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:26] Ally: So what I think happens when you stop the women from, like, just, you know, kissing all the way down your body. Whatever. And you say, like, that's not my favorite. I think what they're hearing is that you definitely want to have the ivy sex and that you're thinking that they Onley want to just blow you and have you come and have that be it and you're trying to signal like, No, I really want Thio inside you.
  • [0:52] Keith: Hello, and welcome to your mileage may vary. Your mileage may vary is a show that brings an odd juxtaposition of meticulous analysis and humor to its examination of topics related to sex and relationships. We think we're pretty entertaining and we hope you do to my co host is Mike. Greetings, Mike. I'm here. Great. And today we've brought back fan fan favorite alley to bring some much needed estrogen to the show. Welcome back, Alley.
  • [0:54] Ally: Hey, thanks for having me back.
  • [1:03] Keith: Mhm. I think mike is going to force us to go 12 rounds on whether women like giving blowjobs today. So I hope you're ready to make your case there.
  • [1:05] Keith: Um but before
  • [1:09] Mike: we I'm on the affirmative. So it's not going. Yeah,
  • [1:23] Keith: yeah, yeah. It's gonna be two against one here. So before we get into it, we have the standard podcast intro segment where I beg people to rate and review us on their favorite podcasting app to write us feedback at Y mm. Peapod at gmail dot com.
  • [1:31] Keith: And to tell all their friends and family about how awesome this show is, so we can continue to grow and educate the world about the crucial matters of our time.
  • [1:39] Keith: To that end, we usually start the show with a group discussion of a porn clip that Mike selects for us. Mike, have you done your homework?
  • [1:50] Mike: Yeah. And as always, this whole there'll be a link to this in the show notes so you can click it and, uh, watch along with us. It's about a 32nd long gif
  • [1:52] Mike: on. I could narrate it while we watch it.
  • [1:55] Keith: Do I need to stop? Like when I click it? Is it going to start?
  • [2:02] Mike: It is going to start right when you click it, But, you know, you've probably seen you may have seen this before this genre.
  • [2:07] Keith: Okay? I'm getting I've clicked it but I positive right at the start. So you know
  • [2:15] Mike: that way As soon as we send it to Ali. She just started watching on a rerun. She's like, Okay,
  • [2:19] Keith: all right, I'm going to start this in 321 starting.
  • [2:37] Mike: So it's a woman with pink hair sitting under a table and all the table has a Penis protruding through it and she's looking at sort of lovingly. Now it's different. She okay? She had her hand around it. Now it's using something. It's sort of like jumping forward in time. She's now got, like, a little strand of something coming out of it that she put in her mouth.
  • [2:43] Mike: She's now to sort of Oh, and now it's shooting semen. But she's not touching it it all into her mouth. Um,
  • [2:54] Mike: and now she's lovingly caressing it all. Shoots even more semen that dripped somewhere. Um, okay, and that's it. So it ended. So the important constituent here is that this is a
  • [3:04] Mike: kind of metallic table, maybe with cloth around it, and she's under it with a light and a camera. And there's just a guy up on top of this, presumably a guy on top of the table
  • [3:07] Mike: who has stuck his Penis through the table. And I want to let people know
  • [3:08] Keith: Glory hole
  • [3:11] Mike: this is It's a It's a milking table key, the milking tape.
  • [3:14] Keith: Is that what it's called? Is that the official name for this sort of?
  • [3:31] Mike: Well, if you look on the upper right of the give And of course I knew that because this'll lovely young lady posts incessantly. Maybe that's the wrong word, but very frequently on some subreddit things kind of video, and it never gets many up votes, but she does it again and again. In fact, she reminds me of
  • [3:41] Mike: the men who post themselves masturbating and always get exactly zero up votes on, I guess. I guess the one down vote to take them from 1 to 0. Um,
  • [4:00] Ally: yeah, I have a lot of questions about how she got into this situation with a guy like, does the guy know that? Does he know what she looks like? Like is the idea that she invited him over and was like, Hey, get on this table I want to do this was the idea that he goes into a room and there's a table with a hole on it. Like
  • [4:04] Mike: I mean, if you were going to do this alley, how would you
  • [4:05] Keith: put it
  • [4:07] Ally: out in the paper?
  • [4:08] Ally: Um,
  • [4:14] Ally: I hope it's the former. I hope that they have seen each other beforehand.
  • [4:16] Keith: This man's Penis is pretty narrow.
  • [4:19] Keith: Z.
  • [4:27] Mike: It's totally ignoring the emotional element of the scenes like he's like that table looks pretty cheap.
  • [4:28] Ally: It
  • [4:34] Keith: Why is she wearing lingerie? She can't even see him. Exactly.
  • [4:45] Mike: Well, it za porn people. I mean, it's there's a there's an audience for this. Um, I mean, let's let's assume. Okay, so I this this young lady has done many of these and
  • [4:57] Mike: I've seen several of them. And I do think although I cannot like, don't hold me to this. But I do think that it's always the same Penis Ali. So I think it is the same guy. Um,
  • [5:03] Mike: yeah, and it's, you know, and I mean, my guess is that it's a way of having a porn
  • [5:08] Mike: that exposes the least information about the man. And maybe
  • [5:14] Mike: yeah, the least sort of identifiable details about the man is possible. Does that make sense? Yeah, I
  • [5:18] Keith: could tell you. Very earthy a
  • [5:26] Mike: lot of people there could be there could be some kink, some sort of fetish here, right? Like the idea of, um,
  • [5:28] Mike: unknown person?
  • [5:40] Mike: Um, just just a Penis, it seems, although to be honest, like from what I know of female psychology, this does seem like the worst possible situation from a woman's perspective. What do you think about that alley?
  • [5:54] Ally: No, I don't think it's the worst possible situation could be enjoyable, particularly as you say, if it's the same Penis, it probably is enjoyable to her because she probably just wanted to do this. And this is the only way that her boyfriend agreed to be on camera. So it's just a dick.
  • [6:10] Keith: I wonder if that's what's going on here. I mean, it could be, Yeah, this guy is like, camera shy and she wants somebody to participate in her, you know, porn career. And so she's like, Okay, what if we create this milking table concept,
  • [6:12] Mike: but
  • [6:16] Mike: there's also there's other elements to this. Like, for example,
  • [6:28] Mike: uh, he's not able, obviously, to pleasure himself in anyway. Well, I guess he could do something above the table, but not genitals or sort of a eso there. There is a
  • [6:36] Mike: what do they call that? There's an element here of the ruined orgasm. Keith, you're familiar with the ruined orgasm. She
  • [6:44] Keith: could edge him or create a situation where, like, he really wants something. And he can't make it happen, because, yeah, he doesn't really have access to his own Penis here.
  • [6:47] Mike: How do you know what a ruined orgasm is?
  • [6:54] Ally: I I know what edging is. So I would assume it's where you edge someone and then don't let them come. I don't know. That's wrong.
  • [6:55] Keith: Okay, You've
  • [7:00] Mike: talked about this before, right? I feel like for some reason I feel like he's brought this up, but he's probably complete ignorance
  • [7:13] Keith: now. I don't know if we started on the show. Ruined orgasm is my understanding of it is your You do orgasm, but they don't like, do the thing you want while you're actually having the orgasm. And so it's
  • [7:41] Mike: right. They said there's a cessation of stimulation, right? When like the contractions begin, uh, which would be probably a drag for a woman to, right? I mean, it would be it would lower the intensity. What would you say? So that's kind of lame. And so and with a guy, of course, it's like almost has this, like, comical aspect that, like you've removed the stimulation and you just have this thing just kind of spurting out, squirting out semen with, like, no nobody interacting with it,
  • [8:09] Mike: right? Right. So it creates this kind of, like, emasculating image, um, that some men find arousing S. So this is that aspect? Yes. And I should say that whenever she makes these videos, it's always like that. Like there's no, it's not what I would consider, like a normal completion of the act. It's like she she does these various things that Avery light stimulation. The videos are often like I'm glad we found this gift because the videos air often, like 30 minutes long.
  • [8:26] Mike: Yeah, and so there's. And sometimes he'll come twice there is there, and it's just very light stimulation. And then she just like, uh and then and then oddly, and this just has to be for the camera. When he does nut, she will position herself so that it, like, goes on her in her mouth, which, like
  • [8:30] Mike: he doesn't even know what's happening. So it's like he cares right, But she true?
  • [8:36] Keith: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, this does not look like the most satisfying
  • [8:38] Keith: stimulation.
  • [8:43] Mike: Maybe it's, ah, compelling. You could get a table, cut a hole in it and give it a shot. Was
  • [8:52] Keith: issue that I'm noticing here. And we should move on here shortly. But initial I'm noticing here is so with both glory holes and this milking table, which is just horizontal glory hole.
  • [8:55] Keith: I like she can't really
  • [9:00] Keith: deep throat him because, like, her nose will hit the table, right?
  • [9:06] Mike: Uh, I actually I think I don't think that I think I have seen one more effectively that happens. But go on.
  • [9:08] Keith: I just feel like
  • [9:15] Keith: there's a lot of things about this set up that make giving a good blowjob basically impossible.
  • [9:22] Mike: Okay, well, it's interesting that you bring that up, Keith, because you take the position
  • [9:25] Mike: that there is no such thing
  • [9:27] Mike: as a good blowjob, at least from the Let
  • [9:35] Keith: me let me let me state my position just so that we we enter this debate, uh, with your eyes open. So
  • [9:40] Keith: I enjoy the physical stimulus of receiving a blow job.
  • [9:47] Keith: I don't think or I often struggle to to internalize and
  • [9:54] Keith: understand that. Okay, I got to close this clip. It's distracting me. I struggled to understand
  • [10:01] Keith: that the woman is enjoying the experience of giving me a blow job, and that takes away from my enjoyment of it.
  • [10:05] Mike: Now, Ali, you enjoy the experience of giving Keith a blowjob, right?
  • [10:10] Ally: I dio a man. A blowjob.
  • [10:13] Mike: Oh, my bad. My bad.
  • [10:15] Mike: Okay, so what I wanted
  • [10:17] Ally: to establish here, though, is that
  • [10:25] Ally: Keith does enjoy and believes that the woman enjoys the feeling of having his Penis inside her.
  • [10:28] Keith: No, I believe she says she enjoys it.
  • [10:37] Mike: She switched. She switched the topic. She she asked you if the woman if you believe that the woman enjoys P i v sex.
  • [10:38] Mike: Well, yeah.
  • [10:45] Ally: Okay. So it's only when it comes to blow jobs that you think somehow, women are misrepresenting their enjoyment.
  • [10:53] Keith: They enjoy vaginal sex because, you know, there's there's a reproductive drive there.
  • [10:56] Mike: Do you feel a reproductive drive when you have vaginal sex, Sally?
  • [11:09] Ally: Personally, No, I don't. Uh I mean, some. Some women have, like, Virginia or whatever. They have, like, you know, pain with insertion, like vaginal sex. Could be painful. I just want to establish that like
  • [11:15] Ally: you think that women 100% are being truthful when they say they enjoy
  • [11:21] Ally: having your Penis in the vagina. But they're not being truthful when they say they enjoyed having your Penis in their mouth.
  • [11:34] Keith: I mean, the the spirit of my argument is that I don't believe it's literally 100% 1 way, 0%. But I believe that generally women enjoy vaginal sex mawr, then they
  • [11:42] Keith: I mean, it's complicated. I think they believe that they enjoy giving e think there's like a
  • [11:48] Keith: Yeah, there's, like a more nefarious thing Go I got were like they've been, like, cultural ized to think that this is like a thing they're supposed to
  • [12:03] Mike: dio, Let me let me jump in here. I I actually feel and I maybe it'll be represent a different viewpoint and now we can maybe mediate a little or you have a third viewpoint. But I mean my view. Actually, I don't agree at all with what Keith is saying. I think that I can easily imagine
  • [12:06] Mike: woman finding giving Orel
  • [12:09] Mike: Mawr pleasurable or more enjoyable than P I V.
  • [12:48] Mike: For a couple reasons one is one. Is that in P I V like I think that there could very easily be like the sense that, like her body, is just being used like she doesn't feel like she's a participant in the same way where is like any other. She's like doing stuff. And secondly, in for most women, they're sort of the same in the sense that, like that's not what's going to get her off anyway. And so it's in both cases. It's like she's doing something with her body that is primarily for the guys enjoyment. And so then it really you know. So so then it It really is kind of a toss up between like, Well, do you? Whether have your pelvis doing it in your face doing it like, anyway, that's a different viewpoint. Maybe Alley could
  • [12:55] Ally: Well, I e no, I mean, I think parts of that air good like anecdotally, I've never gotten less When
  • [12:57] Keith: Go ahead, go ahead.
  • [13:08] Ally: I've never gotten less wet from giving a blowjob. I have gotten less wet, like as P I V. Sex continues. So I feel like if we're going to just go with physical indicators of my enjoyment.
  • [13:24] Keith: No. No. Okay, I reject your self. And else let me explain to you your wetness. So when you have vaginal sex for, like, a long period of time, like, you know, sometimes
  • [13:30] Keith: you know, not not everything could be, you know, a 12 on the stimulation scale.
  • [13:37] Keith: Come on. You have never been mid blowjob. And but, like, Okay, this is getting a little bit performative at this point.
  • [13:46] Keith: Like you've always like Like, your arousal, Like, just stays high or or goes up. It never goes down while giving a blow job.
  • [13:53] Ally: I don't think it goes down if it gets, if it gets tiresome or something, like maybe I'll switch Thio, like,
  • [13:56] Ally: you know, having him be inside me or something. But it
  • [14:03] Ally: Yeah, I've never I've never been giving a blowjob. Been thinking like Okay. I just want this whole thing to be over, like, let's go make dinners. Okay.
  • [14:09] Keith: All right, hold on. All right. Do you to agree that there are some women that give blowjobs out of obligation
  • [14:16] Keith: like they actually really like? Okay, definitely. What percentage of women do you guys think are like that,
  • [14:18] Ally: Ali?
  • [14:26] Ally: I don't know. I mean, it's harder for me toe judge this because I don't really talk about this with my female friends. So why not?
  • [14:27] Keith: I
  • [14:29] Ally: don't know. It feels
  • [14:33] Ally: odd, Thio. I'll say 50% sure. I don't know.
  • [14:42] Mike: I'll say this. I'll say this much. As men were there. A lot of a lot is made online about men not giving a world of women.
  • [15:00] Mike: Um, yes. So we know that also, men. Also, though men do enjoy talking about sex, the topic of a man giving oral to a woman is probably one of the least common, maybe the least common other than something gay or like some very on I'm talking about among straight men, Of course. Um,
  • [15:12] Mike: one of the least common topics so might just be some sort of general like embarrassment at being in sort of submissive position or something that that makes it so. It's not. It's compelling. Anyway, in terms of the percentage, uh,
  • [15:21] Mike: I'm going to go with Mauritz more than 50. I'm gonna go with, like, 75% of women do it out of obligation. Okay?
  • [15:38] Keith: Uh huh. I actually think it's lower than both of those numbers, but maybe that's just because everyone I'm with always wants to blow me. Uh, now, Okay, so those are those are pretty high numbers. Do you think it's around the same for men? Like what? What percentage of men do you think enjoy going down on women? It's the same.
  • [15:45] Keith: Yeah, I think it's about the same to Yeah. I mean, we could argue we can haggle the specific number, but I'm guessing it's about the same.
  • [16:24] Mike: My percentage number is from the extensive number of posts I've seen online of women. Sorry of men who I mean, it's just It's just like you see it just so often. That's why I went with a high number that men say that, like, once, it's so okay, if you're on your 1st 10 dates with a woman, that's like a different situation. So then they're gonna do whatever, but But like, it appears to be the case that, like when men get married or like in a long term relationship, that, like many, many, many, many women like, are like, yeah, I don't want to do that anymore. And the men are usually pretty okay with it because they substitute out P I V
  • [16:25] Mike: um so it's not.
  • [16:41] Mike: It's not that big of a deal, but like it's just something you see so often like it kind of. It kind of surprises me because it's like an obvious. Well, I think if I were a woman, it would be an obvious kind of mistake because it's like you're you're incentivizing the guy to go look for it elsewhere. That's the rationale
  • [17:06] Keith: I agree with with everything here, right, Like I know. I mean, you see this online all the time. You hear people complain about this all the time, like my wife will never go down on me anymore. All right, so let's say the number just for the sake of this conversation say the number is 75% of men and women don't really want to go down on their partners. Okay, what percentage of people do you think? Pretend they dio early on, right? Like it's like
  • [17:08] Mike: it's gonna be a subset of that 75% of what you mean?
  • [17:15] Keith: Yeah, like a group of people. And I think it's a large group of people that are sort of pretending they want to do it.
  • [17:20] Mike: However, however key tha one thing I would know it is a caveat. There I was just reading
  • [17:30] Mike: because I have literally nothing better to dio about this on red yesterday and it was a post about men. Sorry about
  • [17:46] Mike: it was a woman saying that in her experience was numerous women saying that in their experience, basically the behavior of a man on their their first time they have sex with regard to oral sex performed on the woman is extremely telling. And this made sense to me about how the man will behave later.
  • [17:54] Keith: Yeah, I have this topic on her spreadsheet, actually, Yeah, basically, if a man doesn't go down on you like early in a relationship, they're never going to later.
  • [17:58] Mike: Yeah, and so I think that women and I think that's because
  • [18:03] Mike: it's a gender role or stereotype of something thing where, like, women
  • [18:14] Mike: are more likely to sort of, in my view, act like they enjoy it early on to sort of snare the man. Whereas the man figures like Look, women don't care as much about exactly what happens in sex.
  • [18:18] Mike: Sure, in terms of selecting a mate, but maybe Hollywood have different opinions about
  • [18:35] Ally: Well, I mean, I know we're gonna talk about that later. But I think the interesting thing here is that I'm kind of like Keith in reverse in the sense that I get uncomfortable with a man going down on me Unless it's, you know, unless we've been in a relationship for a long time and I feel like, very comfortable with him. So
  • [18:39] Ally: even if he tried to in the first, like few dates, I would not
  • [18:40] Ally: let him do that. So
  • [18:44] Mike: that's because of the stubble on his face, right? It grosses you out.
  • [19:03] Ally: No, it just it feels very intimate and then in reverse. My argument for blowjobs is that it's a sex act that you could do were like I the woman. I don't have to take my clothes off like I'm very protected in a way, and I just kind of get to see what his dick is like, whereas, you know,
  • [19:07] Ally: none of me is exposed like I'm I'm not vulnerable it all. I feel that's
  • [19:19] Keith: interesting. I feel like most of the women that I've been with think that blowjobs arm or intimate than vaginal sex, and I don't know why that is. But, uh uh,
  • [19:23] Keith: both both both male and female.
  • [19:24] Keith: Um,
  • [19:25] Keith: wait. Okay.
  • [19:30] Mike: Alright. Wait, wait. You're talking about men you've been with? Sorry. Male and female. I don't understand that part.
  • [19:32] Keith: Oh, I think
  • [19:42] Keith: having a man go down on them or going down on a man themselves are both would rank higher on the intimacy scale than them
  • [19:51] Keith: analysis. Now, we're like exchanging like into instagram ideas is more intimate than actual sex that people are. People are strange.
  • [20:01] Keith: Okay, hold on. All right, so All right. I think the three of us all agree that there are some large percentage of people that pretend they like giving blowjobs.
  • [20:05] Mike: Well, I don't. Ali II while you were at 50 right? Wait
  • [20:13] Keith: 50 actually not liking it. But then, like some subset of that 50 is is pretending that they like todo early
  • [20:14] Mike: in the relationship.
  • [20:28] Ally: Right? So say that half of those 50 also are pretending. So if you I think what you're trying to say is if you encounter someone who's willing to give you a blowjob on the first date either to me, either there in that 50% who actually like it or they're in that 25% who don't like it but are willing to pretend.
  • [20:39] Keith: Yeah, I just think it's not irrational. Yeah, it's not a rational for me to be like, highly skeptical of someone telling me how much how excited they are to give me a blow job
  • [20:55] Mike: when you give your little talk to a woman that we discussed Alevis Kurds ago. Like your little talk where you're like, Hey, this is my favorite thing And you have, like, your your reasoning behind it, which is you got to be a very unusual experience for the woman. Like I think that like,
  • [21:24] Mike: yeah, it's like it's like, Yeah, most men are like they're like, you're you're talking about it. Most men just have, like, their Penis head right in front of the woman's lips like put it in, Um, so you're very unusual in that regard, but the when, when that's when you're having that talk, what are your experiences in terms of the reactions like I mean, is it? Some of them are unhappy. They're like, Hey, I disagree, Or like I like doing this. Some of them are. Are any of them like Oh, who? That's great because I don't like it either
  • [21:30] Mike: in different Like what kinds of like is the breakdown of the reactions you get to your your little discussion there.
  • [21:35] Keith: I have met. I met some people who
  • [21:36] Keith: seem
  • [21:43] Keith: relieved, but I don't know if that has ever come up after someone has pretended they want Thio.
  • [22:02] Keith: Sorry. Stated they want Teoh. I don't know if they're pretend like e. Sorry. Sorry. Let me Let me Let me let me explain more fully. So if I bring it up, you know, a dinner before I'm like Oh, you know, like, I don't really like somehow jump come up. No, it's like somehow sex comes up and you're
  • [22:06] Ally: like, I like the way you're eating that carrot. By the way, let me tell you if it were my Penis, I would
  • [22:12] Mike: not. That's not what comes up for you at a dinner on like a date alley?
  • [22:31] Keith: No, Guys, listen. There are various reasons why bringing up sex is good. Like you can, you know, figure out. You know, if they're on birth control, you can figure out what their recent partner history has been. And you know so there there are good reasons to bring it up.
  • [22:34] Keith: Regardless with me trying to virtue Single. But I don't want a blowjob
  • [22:38] Mike: immediately. Like to start talking about the diameter of his Penis and how good it looks through a milking table,
  • [22:44] Keith: right? Yeah. Like this guy man shamed himself
  • [22:46] Mike: just pops up the gift on his phone
  • [22:51] Keith: E got there. You're
  • [22:56] Ally: drinking out of your champagne flutes in cases like, you know, I don't know if mine would fit in this. Yeah,
  • [23:06] Keith: Yeah, this is exactly right. Wait. All right, So, uh, all right, so we agree that it's not irrational to be concerned about this. So
  • [23:10] Keith: Alright, so how
  • [23:12] Keith: like I find
  • [23:23] Keith: that I am most interested in this is this is probably pathetic, but I'm just gonna say it. I'm most interested in receiving a blow job when the person basically
  • [23:32] Keith: bags or makes it or, like, really makes a strong effort to say that they really want Thio like that Helps me get over my
  • [23:35] Keith: my concern that they don't want Thio.
  • [23:37] Ally: Yeah, that makes sense. That's good.
  • [23:39] Mike: Yeah, it is with the feds to
  • [23:42] Keith: it is a little pathetic because
  • [23:43] Keith: yeah,
  • [23:47] Ally: I mean, it depends how far into begging you feel like they have to Ggo. No, I
  • [23:55] Keith: mean, I don't need, like, a notarized letter from their congressman, you know, swearing that they want to give me a blow job zits like,
  • [24:09] Keith: Yeah, yeah, that's it doesn't have to raise to that bar, but yeah, I offer some resistance, and they're just like, Oh, okay. I'm like, Oh, all right, Well, and then I was good to offer some resistance here. But if they push back and then there's some magnitude of pushing back that
  • [24:14] Keith: well, yeah, I mean, I just get the more they push back, the more comfortable I hypothetically yet.
  • [24:25] Ally: So when they asked to do it, Are they is this over dinner? And they're just asking you, Can I give you a blow job or is it that they just you're making out? And they start Thio, ease downward and you say No, no, no, wait.
  • [24:37] Keith: Yeah, that's that's the standard situation. Look, this doesn't normally come up at dinner, But if you know you're in your initial sexual encounter and the person starts,
  • [24:59] Keith: you know, moving their lips below mine, or I mean, you know, whatever. It's like a chance that they're trying to give you a blow job after they've started moving down. Like maybe they're just trying to kiss your neck, but, like, let's there below the neck. You know, you sort of it's getting probable that they're probably going to try to give you a blow job. Yeah, I'll say, Hey, um,
  • [25:08] Keith: you know, this is not my favorite, uh, sex act like you don't you don't need to feel like you have to do this.
  • [25:10] Mike: So, Ali, is that, um
  • [25:14] Mike: I'm curious about your experience with this is
  • [25:22] Mike: is the normal way that that sort of gets introduced with a partner. You doing it or is it more like I mean, you know,
  • [25:26] Mike: Bill Clinton famously like to pull out his Penis
  • [25:29] Mike: and ask a girl to kiss it? Was it more,
  • [25:40] Ally: uh, it's never been that I think it's either. Yeah, it's either what he's describing, like the kissing slowly moves downward. Or sometimes I'll just ask a guy like, Can I lick you?
  • [25:42] Ally: Which is a euphemism, I think,
  • [25:50] Keith: Yeah, how often do you initiate it? Or how often does he subtly or not so subtly
  • [26:00] Mike: suggested? And we're interested in the really the first, you know, with with a new partner, obviously like when it's when you've been with someone for a while. Like you could have some rhythm.
  • [26:07] Ally: Yeah, with a new partner. And I think maybe this is particular to me because I really like it, But with a new partner, almost always I initiate it.
  • [26:08] Keith: Okay, They don't have a chance,
  • [26:13] Ally: Right? Just like a sucking remora. That just goes e
  • [26:18] Keith: between the appetizer, the e a warrior.
  • [26:31] Ally: One of my partners made fun of this because we were watching a movie and we got literally, like, one minute and 20 seconds into the movie. And then I started to like, do that. He's like, Can we watch more of the movie first?
  • [26:35] Keith: E Wow.
  • [26:42] Mike: Well, you can. I mean, so Keith realized that I mean, Keith has admitted that 50% of women like doing it, which I think is actually a pretty big admission.
  • [26:54] Keith: I don't know if I admitted that or not E Oh, no. You know, I did admit that I think my number is actually lower than yours. I think mawr. I think it depends by age. Like I think young women are probably sort of afraid of penises and like,
  • [26:55] Keith: but once but like once.
  • [26:58] Mike: How young Keith?
  • [27:07] Keith: Well, that this is hypothetical. But women younger than 25 who have not had that much experience with that many penises probably are
  • [27:16] Keith: more likely to be afraid of them and hesitant to give blowjobs. But women in there thirties or whatever thirties or higher are probably mawr
  • [27:27] Mike: comfortable. Yeah, okay. But so you but eso you've you're But you're at a number that's not zero in terms of, like, some of them enjoying it. And, I mean, you have alley here basically saying,
  • [27:38] Mike: as far as I could tell, like this is one of her e mean Ali. Is it fair to say, like, I'm trying to understand how favorable of an activity this is for you? Like it has to be with,
  • [27:55] Mike: obviously. Let's let's just assume it's with someone you know. Well, you're dating. Not just I mean, you're not actually interested in a milking table with unknown people, I assume? No. Um, but okay, so So in that context, I mean, like,
  • [27:57] Mike: you know, can you
  • [28:01] Mike: Is there some way to, like, give Keith an idea of, like, you know, I'd rather
  • [28:04] Mike: with a partner do this than that? Like
  • [28:11] Mike: how often you like to do. I mean, it just it sounds like. I mean, the example you gave her the movie made it sound like this is not
  • [28:20] Mike: something you're doing. Just your You have a genuine first person enjoyment of it that makes you be like, Hey, this is what I want. I want this in my mouth right now. Is that
  • [28:25] Ally: Oh, yeah, Yeah, I like it. I mean, I would I would like for it to feature in
  • [28:29] Ally: almost all of I guess, the sexual sessions that I have. Like,
  • [28:33] Ally: if I'm on my period or something or sex seems like it would be,
  • [28:40] Ally: you know, difficult or Messi or something. I think I'd probably rather do that. Then, you know, they have to, like clean blood out of my sheets. Wasn't
  • [28:50] Mike: sure, But this is, well, that's a more negative cast. This is I think you're making a stronger positive case, though, that, like you know, you um
  • [28:53] Mike: I mean, you just find it fun, like it's nothing.
  • [29:00] Ally: Yeah, I'm trying to say like, I don't It's not that it's not that That's the only thing I want to do. But it's it's something that I definitely want to dio.
  • [29:03] Keith: Okay, but this is this'll is important. Okay?
  • [29:06] Keith: You're in an early sexual encounter with somebody.
  • [29:12] Keith: You don't want them to come while you're giving him the blow job, right?
  • [29:19] Ally: No, no, I mean, I do if I think that he's willing to, like, stick around after that and we could do some other stuff later.
  • [29:21] Keith: Mm. But stick
  • [29:28] Mike: around. You mean you mean stick around to have sex more? You mean, stick around like you're afraid he's gonna actually, like, run out of
  • [29:30] Keith: your
  • [29:38] Ally: stick around, have sex for E. Don't mind if that's the only sex we end up having on, like, a first date or something. But, um
  • [29:40] Ally: alright, second date or third data, don't
  • [29:43] Keith: you think most people would mind?
  • [30:02] Ally: So what I think happens when you stop the women from, like, just, you know, kissing all the way down your body. Whatever. And you say, like, that's not my favorite. I think what they're hearing is that you definitely want to have be ivy sex and that you're thinking that they Onley want to just blow you and have you come and have that be it. And you're trying to signal like, No, I really want Thio inside
  • [30:08] Mike: you. Great. It's a great take for you, Keith. Have you got to defend against that? So basically, you're feeling it is manipulation.
  • [30:14] Keith: Yeah, just like an explosion. Yeah,
  • [30:17] Keith: although that makes a lot of sense that that
  • [30:21] Keith: is how it would probably even predominantly be interpreted.
  • [30:30] Keith: So do you think I should add something to my spiel? Okay, so my spiel right now. Hey, you know that Really? My favorite thing, comma.
  • [30:37] Keith: But I'm not trying to I'm not saying that just so that I can, you know, get into your pants.
  • [30:39] Ally: I think I don't think you should say that.
  • [30:41] Keith: E
  • [30:52] Mike: think you should try that? You should. You should try to find a way to identify which women are in the 50% who are actually enjoying it. And they aren't
  • [31:03] Mike: and ask or say something clever that direction. And then let's say that you determined that the woman is in the 50% that enjoy it. I think you should show the fuck out and let her do it and enjoy it.
  • [31:06] Keith: Okay, But what? Okay, what's the question? I can ask that will despise
  • [31:17] Mike: maybe Hollywood ever thought on that. Like what? What could e you've persuaded me that you enjoy it. I mean, the story about the movie,
  • [31:24] Mike: the men and a half in. So, I mean, that's because in the reason what the reason that was so convincing was that it was like
  • [31:31] Mike: it was, um, or casual scenario. It's basically like it sounded to me like you would be interested in doing that, even knowing that, like
  • [31:36] Mike: I've read posts on Reddit were like, Women are like, Yeah, you know, sometimes I just like Thio.
  • [31:49] Mike: Yeah. I mean, you know, have his Penis in my mouth for a while. Like they just enjoy it. Um, my cup of tea. But, you know, I mean that that that that was the sense I got there. But I don't know. Do you? Is there something that that a person could ask you where you feel? Like you could honestly,
  • [31:57] Mike: um, disclose your joy at this and not in a in a fraudster. Wouldn't be able to slip through like a blowjob. Capture what we're looking for,
  • [31:59] Keith: right?
  • [32:17] Ally: I think the problem is that anything that I could say Keith would think that I could be making up. You know, however vehemently I express my enjoyment that I could be lying. I think what he has to do is let them start and judge their, you know, enthusiasm and skill and
  • [32:18] Ally: techniques. Yes, but
  • [32:24] Keith: Ali, the faker is gonna beam or offended if I ended at that point than the non faker.
  • [32:26] Ally: Really?
  • [32:33] Ally: Well, if you stop somebody mid blowjob and you're like, Hey, I wanna be inside you. You think they're going to be offended that you have discovered that they're bad at giving blowjobs
  • [32:35] Keith: was something more like
  • [32:41] Keith: they're They're doing this reluctantly, but but specifically because they feel like they're supposed thio.
  • [32:57] Keith: And they must like me enoughto, like, you know, do this performance. And then if shortly into it, I detect their sort of not very good at it or not demonstrating the level of enthusiasm that I would prefer and I sort of, you know,
  • [33:04] Keith: pull the back up north. Uh, they might get They might feel insecure about that.
  • [33:16] Ally: Well, I don't think I think they'd be like, Oh, thank God he rescued me like that was all I had to dio. Yeah, because if they're really if they're really doing it just because they think it's what you like. As soon as they take that box for you. And you're like, Oh, we can move on to P I V. What do you think? The right
  • [33:20] Keith: amount of time for me to wait to do that. ISS.
  • [33:23] Keith: Mm.
  • [33:30] Ally: Well, I guess as long as it takes for you to figure out if if they're good at it or not, I mean, a minute maybe. I don't know.
  • [33:43] Keith: I feel like I feel like if I was going down on a woman and I was down there, I don't know a minute. If I was down there for 30 seconds and she, like, started pulling me up, I think my feelings would be hurt.
  • [34:03] Keith: I don't know. And then a minute, a little bit less. So five minutes. Okay, fine, whatever. But I think five minutes is a long time. Yeah, Yeah. Five minutes. I'm Yeah, I would not be offended, but yeah, there's some Goldilocks zone here where I'm getting the information I need, but I'm not hurting their feelings. If I
  • [34:04] Keith: if I
  • [34:07] Keith: cease the activity,
  • [34:08] Keith: Yeah.
  • [34:23] Ally: I mean, I feel like another indicators Do they pay any attention to your balls while they're down there. I feel like somebody who really enjoys it here. We call, like start by looking your balls maybe. And like somebody who's doing it out of obligation, will I assume, be disgusted by your balls and not even try.
  • [34:27] Keith: I mean, nobody is disgusted by my balls, but this is good. Hypothetically. Oh,
  • [34:33] Mike: how far south do you think she should dio? I mean, do you Do you think he Oh further?
  • [34:38] Mike: Or is it just eso Ali? Is it fair to say that you always
  • [34:40] Mike: there's always ball play for you?
  • [34:49] Ally: Not always. But, um I feel like if you want Thio like, if you start with the balls and then go kind of back up the shaft to get it like wet
  • [34:56] Mike: is there You said what? What is compelling about a guy's balls?
  • [35:03] Mike: You're saying that you like doing it and you're saying, Oh, hey, I integrate that you're even putting It is part of your test of if someone likes it. And I'm thinking to myself, like
  • [35:06] Keith: what's compelling about his shaft?
  • [35:11] Mike: No, that's coming, E
  • [35:13] Ally: either. You like peanut? Don't
  • [35:14] Keith: getting nowhere here.
  • [35:26] Ally: What I think is compelling about the balls is First of all, I don't have balls. I have no idea what that feels like. It seems from their reaction that it feels good to play with them. And that's kind of like a mystery to me.
  • [35:34] Keith: E think like it's high risk. High reward, like good ball play. Could be great. Bad could be quite bad. Yeah,
  • [35:36] Ally: sure, yeah,
  • [35:45] Mike: yeah, I just don't Yeah, I actually find it just high risk. I don't even see much for me. It's It's high risk, low reward. In my opinion, I'm surprised you. It's it's high reward key.
  • [35:48] Keith: I've had ball play in the past that I've
  • [36:08] Mike: appreciated. That's right, by the way, just isn't aside like I was going to offer up the porn. I did find God. I should post in the show notes for people. I did find the porn where the guy puts his balls in the woman's anise and his Penis and a vagina at the same time. On I was going to show that yeah, but then I decided that it might bother Alley.
  • [36:11] Ally: Just feel like that would be uncomfortable for both parties.
  • [36:12] Keith: Think Yeah,
  • [36:21] Mike: terrible. Everybody's unhappy. The best part is when he pulls his balls out, it stretches because her and this is Yeah.
  • [36:28] Keith: Alright, yeah. Sorry about that. Sorry e.
  • [36:35] Mike: Can I ask you a question, Alley? So when you there's some choices of language you use that are interesting to me, one example was
  • [36:50] Mike: Well, okay, you said that you you ask a guy if you can lick him, which doesn't actually doesn't. I think suck would be a better choice because lick sounds very much what you would do to a woman. But actually, the more interesting one to me was the choice of I want you inside me,
  • [37:04] Mike: which I don't know what Keith take is. And I also don't know whether that's part of your dirty talk repertory, but, uh, I don't I don't find that, Keith. What? I mean, I I think that you need to amp that up a little or say something
  • [37:16] Mike: mawr exciting to the guy that for some reason, the phrase inside me feels very like it feels very much like a thing. A woman says when she's trying to sort of hide herself, like, sort of like
  • [37:19] Mike: it's very like cloaked. I don't know, Keith, you have a take on that.
  • [37:46] Keith: I dio I do not like the word lick Lick has become. It has become like it's become a common euphemism amongst, uh, the millennial crowd. Thio refer to going down on a man I would rather hear something has Yes, yes, but okay, I agree. It za annoying word choice. I mean, like, you have discussed around a lot of like you hate the words like eating out or
  • [37:52] Mike: Oh, yeah, that's discussed. I remember in high school a girl. Yeah, he said that to me. I was like, No, no, I don't want to anymore.
  • [37:56] Keith: How do you feel about much muncher box? Oh, God,
  • [38:00] Mike: that zit isn't that chow is the reverb there.
  • [38:03] Mike: E
  • [38:19] Ally: think all those were bad e think Can I suck you is a good note. I think that I could easily substitute that. What I don't want to say is like, Can I give you a blow? Job sounds to transactional and and I suck your dick Sounds too like raunchy or like you know,
  • [38:20] Mike: that's what the guy wants.
  • [38:23] Keith: Yeah. Could you say I want to feel you in my mouth?
  • [38:26] Ally: Oh, sure, I could see that.
  • [38:28] Keith: I think that's better. I would like
  • [38:46] Mike: that. It's the It's the use to me. The euphemistic use of you and me, like inside me, You in my mouth. I don't like that look, it's just It's just like it's just a I don't know. It feels like it's It's too much like your person. It's not anthropomorphizing. It's something you're basically putting the entirety of the person in to their genital.
  • [38:55] Ally: It's a syntactic e of the tick. Yeah, how about more specificity? Because, like that, you would think, like, what does she want? My fingers? Does she want my dick
  • [39:04] Mike: e know what she's saying? It's that it's that what mostly it's that, like it's this, like, sort of cloaked language, where it's like, look like
  • [39:07] Mike: it's more fun for a guide here, a girl
  • [39:10] Mike: say something nastier. I think I mean, Keith could I
  • [39:15] Keith: think that's right. Like if she said, Yeah, I want to feel you in my mouth or I'm really excited to taste, you
  • [39:20] Ally: know. But he wouldn't like Mike wants. I want to feel your Penis inside my mouth. He wants
  • [39:24] Keith: three exact construction like
  • [39:27] Ally: I would like your Penis gently placed atop my tongue
  • [39:32] Mike: e Think of what? What? Our guest Eric said for his dirty talk toward women. I can't.
  • [39:44] Mike: Yeah, but he's always like this was more demeaning. Yeah, it was like, you whore thing way, Keith, what's your take on?
  • [39:52] Mike: Feel you inside me or whatever she said? Like there must be something. I want you inside me that doesn't strike you bad. Like you wouldn't rather, like, have her say like,
  • [39:54] Mike: fuck me.
  • [39:59] Mike: Both of those would be fine. E think the second is better, but okay, so your your e really
  • [40:02] Keith: don't struggle. We're talking about P I v here, right?
  • [40:04] Mike: Yeah. I don't
  • [40:12] Keith: struggle to believe that that's something they want. And so it's not that it is not important to me,
  • [40:34] Keith: but their specific word choice around. Let me get this straight. Asking me to give me asking me if it's ok for them to give me a blow job like the specific word choice there matters like, if it's tepid, I'm less likely to believe that that's what they want. And if I don't believe it, I mean, I don't I mean, I'm I'm sort of ambivalent about it. I'm not ambivalent. It's It's confusing.
  • [40:39] Mike: It's complicated. We Have you ever given a blow to a guy who didn't like it or didn't want blows?
  • [40:44] Ally: Well, prison way we talked about last time. Who said he came when he didn't? Presumably that guy.
  • [40:48] Mike: I think he was just on antidepressants. I think he couldn't e.
  • [40:53] Ally: I'm considering writing to him. Things has come up again years
  • [40:54] Keith: later. He's
  • [40:59] Ally: explained. Yeah, Other than that, I mean,
  • [41:09] Ally: I've given blowjobs two guys who didn't come from the blow job and we like, you know, moved on to P I. V. I haven't given a blow job to a guy who was like, That was terrible, you know, like I mean, I've never gotten negative.
  • [41:11] Mike: That's a great move. I should do that.
  • [41:12] Keith: Yeah, it was
  • [41:18] Ally: terrible. Clarify things like you suck. You suck. No pun intended. Yeah,
  • [41:19] Ally: yeah.
  • [41:26] Mike: Mhm. And we in another thing, Keith, you said that you made it very clear, er earlier that
  • [41:35] Mike: it was important to you or like that. You had this idea that the woman definitely didn't want the guy to come from the blow. But I think I think that's also another misunderstanding that I think I want to
  • [41:37] Keith: litigate this further as well.
  • [41:42] Mike: So I think that women like I think that women like I personally think that women
  • [41:50] Mike: Okay, there is, like, an IQ aspect to it. But there's that goes both ways. But I think that I personally think that the, um
  • [42:00] Mike: that feeling the guy I've always thought the feeling the guy ejaculated your mouth must, like, sort of connect you to the guy in a certain way. That's compelling. I don't know. I don't know if Allie has a take on that.
  • [42:02] Ally: I'd like that. Yeah.
  • [42:03] Keith: Okay,
  • [42:07] Keith: wait. Alright, fine. Look. All right, let's say you're on your fifth
  • [42:17] Keith: sexual encounter with a person, so we're separating the well. I'm not really comfortable having, you know, vaginal sex with him yet. You've done that already, and
  • [42:21] Keith: okay, you're starting the encounter. You're blowing him
  • [42:22] Keith: Mhm.
  • [42:35] Keith: And yeah, like what amount of time. And should he I mean, I think the answer is he should not finish. And there's some amount of time after which he should be like, Okay, let's move on.
  • [42:37] Keith: And he should He should
  • [42:38] Keith: make that
  • [42:48] Keith: call, right? Like he should be the one that's like, I don't like, double taps you on the head or whatever, but like, it's like, Okay, let's move on to the next thing on the menu.
  • [42:51] Ally: So I enjoy it. If he finishes, you know, if he
  • [43:03] Ally: can, I guess. Finished. Um, if you want something else or if he thinks that P I v would feel better. I'm not offended if you know a minute into it or something. He says, like,
  • [43:08] Ally: you know, he don't know pulls me. Yeah, but it says like, Can we
  • [43:13] Ally: do something? I don't know. I struggle to find what words would be used here. But how do you
  • [43:18] Keith: know whether you're supposed to be blowing him to completion or not? You don't You're just sort of
  • [43:24] Ally: I don't know. I always go into it thinking it will be to completion and that it's up to him. Interesting Thio
  • [43:27] Mike: e
  • [43:32] Keith: Feel like most blow jobs are not given with that goal,
  • [43:41] Ally: huh? Well, that could be an indicator. If you if you feel like she's going in very tentatively, like hoping you're going to stop her, then probably she's one of those people who doesn't enjoy them.
  • [43:45] Keith: I don't know if it's tentative. It's It's more like
  • [43:50] Keith: she thinks that This is the thing you're supposed to do during foreplay.
  • [43:51] Ally: Yeah.
  • [43:55] Ally: I mean,
  • [43:56] Keith: yeah, I don't know. E
  • [44:10] Ally: don't know how you tease that out. Like one thing that I will say where maybe I feel similarly to you is that sometimes when I'll start giving a blowjob, a guy will say something like, particularly if it's like a new partner. That's like, Oh, like that you're really good at that or you know something to those effect.
  • [44:19] Ally: I do often think like, Oh, he must say that to everyone. Or like, you know, not that he's lying, but like that must just be a line. So I see where you're coming from in the sense that
  • [44:21] Ally: there's so
  • [44:22] Mike: their women who are
  • [44:23] Mike: their women are
  • [44:28] Keith: e. But there's two things there, Mike. The first is there is big variance in
  • [44:30] Keith: blowjob ability,
  • [44:36] Keith: and also men are likely to say that every partner they have is pretty good at it. Well, I would be anyone know
  • [45:02] Mike: about that. I don't know about that because, like, well, that's because you're not. You're you're you're anti it anyway. But I think that, like if you're a guy who likes it, you don't wanna like lie to her? Because then you get into this pickle. If you enter a longer term relationship where, like, she's gonna be like, Well, no, what I do is great. And you're like, Actually, it's not. And now it's a little bit like it's a little like faking an orgasm for a woman. Honestly, like yourself encouraging bad behavior. You are. It's like, How do you How do you ever fix that?
  • [45:03] Keith: Um,
  • [45:05] Keith: yeah, but I think men
  • [45:09] Keith: okay, Mike, I think most men's instinct is to
  • [45:15] Keith: care about the other person's feelings. Uh, and they might, Yeah, they might paint themselves into a
  • [45:23] Mike: dangerous corner. It could happen. It could happen. But I just wanted to assure Ali that there are women that are terrible at it. It has to do with, like, not using the right amount of pressure.
  • [45:27] Mike: Um, not yeah. Like to light to like
  • [45:31] Mike: to sort of not doing any doing not doing enough. Basically.
  • [45:39] Ally: Yeah, well, that's my exact feedback for, you know, guys who are giving me oral sex when I don't like it, I almost always feel like there's not enough pressure on
  • [45:41] Mike: like e
  • [45:45] Keith: think that various I've had people E.
  • [45:47] Ally: Yeah.
  • [45:49] Keith: Um, okay.
  • [45:52] Keith: Are we done with this? That that provides a
  • [46:07] Mike: kind of Yeah. The last thing I wanted to establish their Keith is just like this general point that there are definitely a substantial. It's not just that there's maybe half of women who like doing it, but also, there's a very substantial percentage of women that enjoy
  • [46:11] Mike: genuinely enjoy having a guy ejaculated their mouth.
  • [46:12] Mike: Ali is one of
  • [46:25] Ally: Yeah, I think I think the take away is that, Keith, you should let them do it for a minute, or even for 45 seconds or something. And you might be pleasantly surprised. It might be extremely good and enthusiastic, in which case you can rest assured. I think that you're with someone who at least,
  • [46:32] Ally: you know, give blowjobs enough that they probably enjoy it. And if it's not and you can, you know, e
  • [46:42] Keith: like a second. I mean, the first issue is I need to believe that they want to do it. And then the second issue is I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to be trying to come or not.
  • [46:45] Keith: Yes,
  • [46:48] Mike: it doesn't matter that much. I mean, you're Yeah, I mean like, yeah. What if
  • [46:50] Keith: this is a person that, like,
  • [46:52] Keith: for example,
  • [46:56] Keith: you know, is multi orgasmic? Yes, they're both. You could argue that doesn't exist.
  • [47:15] Mike: It doesn't exist. It's like you're creating a little fantasy land there, like, for the most part, like they don't. I don't think women think about this the way that you're thinking about it. Like where it needs to be stage managed. I mean, even if you did, you could simply wait, like 20 minutes, and then you'll or whatever, like there's some period of time. After which you'll be. Yes.
  • [47:24] Ally: I also think that even if you're trying to come during the blowjob like, you're probably not going to come in the 1st 30 seconds. So you still have enough time to evaluate?
  • [47:27] Keith: Yeah. No, but all right, fine. First off
  • [47:52] Keith: saying that I could just wait 20 minutes and go again. Well, now I'm just back in the same problem. What if she starts starting to blow me again? It's like, Well, yeah, you're supposed to be infinitely you're supposed to be self was. And my argument by general argument is that receiving a job is a selfish act, and I don't like that. And
  • [47:57] Ally: and you're saying you can't go down on her while you're waiting the 20 minute refractory period.
  • [48:01] Keith: I could It's hard. It's hard. Certainly not as fun when I'm not
  • [48:12] Mike: aroused. I'll tell you all of the all the reticence you have about a guy giving you Orel Ali would all be pretty well justified in that situation like you. He's not enjoying just like, let's just go read
  • [48:17] Keith: a book. Yeah, yeah. Mhm.
  • [48:27] Keith: Yeah, Yeah, I just feel like this is ah, minefield. Yeah. I don't know what comes after step three, which is like, once, I once I could, like, properly evaluate whether I'm supposed to come or not.
  • [48:32] Keith: There's probably, like, another step I just haven't done. I haven't had enough blowjobs to, like e
  • [48:43] Mike: generally, and this is the thing he is like. I think I think this is more than 90% of guys is if the question is, when am I supposed to come? The answer is always Yes.
  • [48:50] Ally: Yeah, but you're saying like, do I say like, do you want me to come in your mouth or something? And then, you know, keep in mind, Okay, But you could just do it.
  • [49:00] Keith: Like remember our last episode where there was that guy who kept the statistics on his on his sex having with his wife, and she had
  • [49:05] Keith: 3.8 orgasms per sexual encounter? Yeah.
  • [49:06] Mike: I mean, that was
  • [49:08] Keith: being a tide that that is likely horseshit.
  • [49:13] Keith: If it is true, then if if her man is
  • [49:22] Keith: orgasm ing in the first four minutes of, you know, most sexual encounters like you know, e don't know how she's going to get 2343.8 organism.
  • [49:35] Mike: I mean, Ali probably knows the name of this logical fallacy you're using there, but like you're you're you're generalizing from a situation that's extraordinarily improbable. The I forget whether it's like masters and Johnson or whatever. But like your Kinsey, like
  • [49:52] Mike: the average number of orgasms for a woman procession is more like 0.5, not 3.8. So it's not so like the thing that yeah, okay, if you're gonna generalize from insane data, yeah, you're going to get some insane result, and I cannot. I will never be able to explain
  • [50:00] Mike: how everyone of your partners always orgasms. Frumpy ivy has called orgasms. My only, like like I'm sorry about this,
  • [50:01] Keith: but my claim
  • [50:14] Mike: that is not my claim. Anyway, if that were your claim to the extent that that's your claim, my only possible reaction is that you are very credulous and are tricked often e because it just doesn't. You know,
  • [50:17] Keith: I agree with that. With that analysis, there we go. A
  • [50:28] Ally: collection of that post to was that they only had sex like, three times a month. And yet somehow she's coming 4 to 5 times a session. Like, why doesn't she bugged him to have sex? Um, or if it's that
  • [50:31] Keith: successful. Yeah. I mean, there are a number of problems,
  • [50:34] Mike: you know, the answer, right? She's having to fake for time
  • [50:37] Keith: E.
  • [50:39] Mike: Yeah, it's
  • [50:42] Keith: a refractor acting skills.
  • [50:51] Mike: It's so annoying. It's got to be. I mean, this is like like like, this is the thing is like Ali, much more comports with me with with what I would see a think of Ah
  • [51:00] Mike: ah woman who's enjoying sex like she has one orgasm like a normal person and she enjoys a whole bunch of Yeah, that's great. It sounds like a very healthy
  • [51:03] Keith: thing.
  • [51:08] Mike: This thing about finding orelon, you too intimate. That's weird, but
  • [51:10] Ally: well, maybe I just haven't found the right guy.
  • [51:12] Keith: I don't think it z
  • [51:15] Mike: double. You need a hairless man,
  • [51:24] Keith: e. I do wonder about that. I always have stubble on my face. Yeah, e I I asked. I've asked people, and they always say it doesn't bother them,
  • [51:27] Mike: but their line.
  • [51:30] Mike: How could it not? All right, you wanted to You wanted to move on. We should.
  • [51:56] Keith: Yeah, getting blowjobs, But okay, this is sort of related to something we were talking about. This person says my ex was angry because I only came with my vibrator this sort of long I can't remember if this is interesting, I start reading, and if it's boring stuff, All right, So I'm a 23 year old female, and in my life, I only came once during sex with my now ex. I came by him using a vibrator, and obviously, this was very intense to me, given that this is the first time someone saw me having an orgasm.
  • [52:05] Keith: After I came, he sat down and was angry with me because it wasn't him who made me or Oh, yeah, that's right. So she goes into toe length about how her boyfriend is mad, that
  • [52:12] Keith: she needs a vibrator. I don't want to talk about that. In his insecurities. What's percentage of women,
  • [52:20] Keith: like, need a vibrator to come And like what was happening in the 18 hundreds, where they're just, like, far fewer orgasms being had?
  • [52:27] Mike: Well, Ali, maybe you could enlighten us about female hysteria. I'm sure you're up on that. Okay.
  • [52:33] Ally: Yeah. Women would go to the doctor and like, whatever their problem was, the doctors say, Well, you need basically to orgasm, and the doctor would
  • [52:37] Ally: finger them until they came. So the doctor was super popular.
  • [52:38] Ally: Uh,
  • [52:41] Mike: it sounds like a fantasy. You could have maybe
  • [52:42] Ally: possibly
  • [52:45] Keith: it sound bad.
  • [52:49] Ally: I mean, to answer your question, I I assume that most women
  • [52:53] Ally: start masturbating, at least just with their fingers. So,
  • [52:55] Mike: you know, just a rope in gym class.
  • [52:58] Ally: That's hard thio stuff.
  • [52:59] Keith: They walk the
  • [53:01] Ally: gym after school. So
  • [53:05] Keith: to stop the teeming hordes of women trying to right, there's
  • [53:07] Ally: only one rope. What are you gonna do? A
  • [53:11] Keith: way,
  • [53:19] Ally: But so I mean, I would assume that it almost you know, I would assume that 80% of women or something can come from their fingers. And then some find that they like the vibrator. More.
  • [53:22] Keith: 80% of women who can come.
  • [53:28] Keith: I think there's I don't I don't even know of 80% of women have ever had more orgasm are really?
  • [53:59] Mike: Well, this is a This is a subject of some debate, right? Because they're that gets back to this question of whether women are under whether they're the physiological and the psychological descriptions match. But but yeah. I mean, there is a substantial percentage. I'm a little curious about Ali. What? So I'm assuming that you're mentioning fingers switching over to a vibrator? What? Because that was your life experience. Uh, what? What was it like the first time you actually, I assume you've used a vibrator. What? The first time you used one?
  • [54:07] Ally: I've used a vibrator, and I don't like it. It didn't work as well, so I still only use my fingers.
  • [54:15] Ally: But I know that there are some people who prefer the vibrator. I'm just assuming that everyone starts. What was the problem? I'm
  • [54:16] Ally: it just it wasn't
  • [54:19] Ally: the right sort of,
  • [54:23] Ally: I guess. Pressure movement. Um,
  • [54:28] Mike: come on, give us more details where men were way. Well, imagine you're your groin.
  • [54:31] Mike: What's going on here?
  • [54:41] Ally: So I guess one thing like it was not an expensive vibrator. It was a vibrator that I won as a prize in pub trivia, which I'll tell you everything you need to know about.
  • [54:43] Keith: It
  • [54:47] Ally: was in, like, the lower mission, I think, uh
  • [54:50] Keith: oh. Maybe they also get a vibrator. It was It was a team
  • [55:00] Ally: thing. And so, like, if if you won, you all went and, like, reached into, like, a bag of prizes basically and pull something out. And so, like, the thing that I pulled out was a vibrator. There are a
  • [55:02] Mike: dozen external only
  • [55:04] Ally: It was kind of like the rabbit, I guess.
  • [55:06] Mike: Okay. All right. I know what you're talking about. All right.
  • [55:17] Ally: So I'm saying that because I'm saying maybe because this was a cheap vibrate or whatever, but I felt like the vibration was not really doing much that it was, I guess not. Not intense enough or not.
  • [55:25] Mike: So the rabbit, I'm not surprised at all. That wouldn't work for you because it's like basically it has these little ears.
  • [55:29] Mike: Basically, it's like It's very Yeah, it's a very gentle light thing, but like But
  • [55:40] Keith: wait, hold on. Can't you control the pressure by sort of smashing it into your Seo? That's true. Does the motor stall out like Like what? What happens? Um,
  • [55:58] Ally: I guess you could press it in more. The thing is, though, that that starts to be a different kind of sensation of like, you know, just like the full frontal like smashing that you don't want. I feel like what I enjoy more is like stroking kind of like the sides of the clip, which the vibrator isn't doing really mhm.
  • [56:01] Mike: When you say stroking, could you be more specific?
  • [56:05] Ally: Well, like running like running your index finger up and down the
  • [56:09] Mike: Yeah, but you said you wanted. You said you wanted pressure. Also, that's what confused me. Well,
  • [56:11] Keith: maybe she applies the pressure from the side.
  • [56:15] Mike: That's what I was wondering. Is it like you actually grip it like it's a very small Penis or like
  • [56:23] Ally: No, no, I don't. I don't grip it. I only use like, one. You know, the side of the index finger. But I guess I I was like writing in a little bit.
  • [56:34] Keith: I've heard that of the finger. Yeah, right in the four. Our body, That one side. Yeah. This guy did like this extensive thing, and yeah, one side was reliably better. Yeah,
  • [56:40] Ally: I read that, Teoh. I mean, I'm right handed, so I use my right index fingers. I guess I'm using, like, the
  • [56:46] Ally: the left side of your finger. Yeah.
  • [56:54] Mike: So I'm trying to picture this. Okay, so you kind of get it in the groove there. And when you say you like a lot of pressure so the pressure is down or to the left or both.
  • [56:56] Ally: Mm. Um,
  • [56:59] Mike: to the left. You could just sort of do it and tell us what you're doing,
  • [57:04] Ally: right? But then, like Eric, you would not know whether maybe I've been treated this whole time.
  • [57:15] Ally: Yeah. I think that the pressure is kind of to the left. It's not like it's not like I'm trying to, like, push it over right? It's like it's just if you imagine that your finger was like a pencil eraser or something. You're trying to, like, erase something. It's like that kind of pressure,
  • [57:22] Mike: and you go up and down meaning toward your belly button and away and towards your vagina.
  • [57:25] Ally: No. Well,
  • [57:32] Ally: if because if you imagine the Clinton's, like a little Penis. Yeah, If you imagine that as a little Penis, it's like I'm going from the base to the
  • [57:35] Ally: top based of the head of a long shot.
  • [57:38] Keith: Yeah, that's happened down. Okay. Yeah.
  • [57:39] Mike: Uh huh.
  • [57:42] Mike: You know, I'm confused. Hang on. I'm confused when you say up and
  • [57:43] Ally: down the picture is
  • [57:49] Mike: that No, no, no. I have a picture in my head. But when you say when you say up, where is up
  • [57:50] Ally: toward the
  • [57:54] Ally: Like, what would be the head of the glands, like of the clip?
  • [57:59] Mike: Okay, but that's away from your the part of your body.
  • [58:00] Keith: No. Yeah.
  • [58:04] Mike: No, it's just what I would consider away from your belly button.
  • [58:06] Ally: Okay. Yeah, but my belly button was, like, higher,
  • [58:19] Mike: You know, generally like a compass rose here like you get your feet. Your belly button is north, south and north, and you're moving sort of south and north with sort of diagonal pressure. Okay. I can really imagine that.
  • [58:24] Keith: Okay, But I have had partners that prefer Mawr east west.
  • [58:26] Keith: Okay.
  • [58:29] Keith: Could you masturbate? Going East west, do you think?
  • [58:30] Ally: Um,
  • [58:33] Mike: maybe hers is more prominent and so, like, that would be sort of like, you
  • [58:35] Keith: know, I mean, there's probably a number of factors here.
  • [58:40] Ally: Yeah, I mean, I guess. What did you mean, like going east west, Just across like the very tip of it, Or just kind of
  • [58:48] Keith: like you would be. Yeah. So you're using your right index finger. You would sort of be going, like, over and back and forth.
  • [58:51] Mike: I think she must have a pretty big e. Think you must have a pretty big
  • [58:56] Ally: E? What?
  • [59:06] Keith: Like what? Wealth doesn't sound e. No, I don't know. What point do you have here that you're using to imply that it might be bigger?
  • [59:09] Mike: Oh, just the issue of like, uh,
  • [59:10] Mike: like,
  • [59:33] Mike: the sort of, like the fact that when you talk about East West like, it's not sort of obvious tour. What that is makes me think like a lot of women, like, it's a little enough area that it's just kind of obvious, because you're just, like, sort of manipulating over this pretty small area. Whereas if it's bigger looking, it's a little more like a finger, right? And so it's like you have, like the and also the fact that she talked about it having a glands
  • [59:43] Mike: like, I don't think most women think in those many some women. I think some women don't think in those terms because the whole area is small enough that it's like, Oh, well, you they're not There aren't different regions. I mean, it's just one. There
  • [59:46] Keith: have been doing that just toe help us. No
  • [59:48] Mike: finger.
  • [59:55] Ally: I mean, the finger is too big. It's like maybe the first joint of the little finger for, like, the first joint of the pinky or something
  • [59:58] Mike: like that would be like. That's pretty bad. Okay, Okay.
  • [60:00] Mike: Yeah. Nice.
  • [60:08] Keith: I'm trying to think of the East West. Yeah, I'm trying to think of the East West. Prefers
  • [60:13] Keith: had smaller clips. I don't I don't remember. I don't remember.
  • [60:18] Mike: The only the only data point that I have about that kind of stuff is I know.
  • [60:30] Mike: Oh, that the distance between and you could measure that if you wanted to ally the distance between the tip of your clit and your vaginal entrance has something to do with whether you can orgasm from P. I V.
  • [60:40] Mike: There is a statistical correlation there, and I don't know exactly what the distance needs to bay, but that's obviously unrelated to the East. West. North South. It needs to be shorter.
  • [60:45] Mike: Well, Keith, it must be very short for the women. You day, you probably put it on your dating profile or something like only for
  • [60:49] Keith: Please send me your measurement. Uh, specifically with
  • [61:01] Mike: e need centimeters between. Like what? What is your your ritual? Clearest distance?
  • [61:05] Keith: Uh,
  • [61:08] Keith: yeah. No, I did not. I did not know that.
  • [61:16] Keith: And Mike, it's not okay. Hold on. It's not that everyone's having, like, a zillion vaginal orgasms. It's, you know, I also go down on people,
  • [61:20] Keith: and, you know, I'm quite extras with my hands.
  • [61:32] Mike: I know I've known you a long time, Keith and I've listened to a lot of your stories and your stories. The ratio, the percentage is what happened in your stories do not comport with the percentages observed by scientists.
  • [61:37] Keith: All right, fair enough. Just like not all vaginal orgasms here
  • [61:39] Keith: or vaginal penetration.
  • [61:41] Mike: Or you
  • [61:42] Ally: said, though that, like maybe half of it
  • [61:47] Keith: is vegetable. I'm going to think about the numbers I have to think about.
  • [61:48] Mike: You should make a spreadsheet.
  • [61:50] Ally: Yeah, it worked so well for that guy.
  • [61:58] Keith: E got her to the front page of Reddit. I mean, what a what? A star?
  • [61:59] Keith: Mhm.