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Episode 29: Underwater Sex, Masturbation Hand, Creampie Eating, Missing Oral, Seeking Gangbangs

Team YMMV | 2-12-2021 | 1:01:46

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This week's scene is filmed underwater, a perspective unfamiliar to most, and pretty surprising when you watch it.

We discuss masturbation handedness, intriguing since Mike is a righty and Keith is a lefty. A Reddit poster, while horny, accepted a request that he "clean" his partner's vagina after the act.

How should one handle a partner who just doesn't like giving oral? And, is it as hard for a woman as a man to find a gangbang, if you're picky about whom to include?

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/29/underwater-creampie

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/29/creampie-eating

https://ymmv.me/29/no-oral-1

https://ymmv.me/29/no-oral-2

https://ymmv.me/29/no-oral-3

https://ymmv.me/29/gangbang-seeker

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:07] Keith: And then do you want to get kinky under heavy breaths? I gasp. Yes, she answers. I want you to lick your come out of my pussy.
  • [0:09] Keith: Uh,
  • [0:12] Mike: way.
  • [0:26] Keith: Yeah. So I love going down on her to begin with. And this sent shivers down my spine and definitely spurred me closer to the edge and soon beyond.
  • [0:35] Keith: Hello. And welcome to your mileage. May vary on your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships. I am Keith. My co host is Mike. We get a mic check, mic.
  • [0:37] Mike: I'm here. Yeah.
  • [0:59] Keith: Okay. Great. Yeah. I hope you're amused by my homophone that you've probably heard 1000 times. We're going to get into our standard show opening porn viewing segment imminently. But before we do that, please rate us on your favorite podcasting app helps grow the show and our egos. If you'd like to provide some feedback, we pay $15 for anything we received at Y mmt pot at gmail dot com.
  • [1:02] Keith: Okay, Mike, what do you have for us today?
  • [1:04] Mike: Well, as always, we
  • [1:07] Mike: are planning to data watch a
  • [1:24] Mike: X rated video and comment on it, and we will share it in the show notes with folks so they can follow along. Uh, should be the top of the notes there. And, uh, this video, We're starting at 8058 minutes, five seconds. It's actually like on porn hub, so it's a little bit long.
  • [1:30] Mike: Uh, yes. I mean, you can see from the title. It's called Underwater Cream Pie. So it gives you an idea but will narrate it and people can follow along.
  • [1:36] Keith: Yeah, okay, I'm going to start in 321 starting.
  • [1:51] Mike: So it's a man and a woman. The woman isn't the dog. The doggy style position sort of leaned over some rocks there in like, kind of a natural pool of water, and he's sort of going at it from behind. You never see her face here. She's got her like the water One piece.
  • [1:57] Mike: That's true. He's really, uh, it looks like he's finishing. I don't see any contractions, but now he's pulling out. Now you see
  • [2:09] Mike: the semen underwater coming out, and also there's a strange sound in my headphones, and now it's like the semen, sort of like becoming a little cloud, but it's kind of sticking together, glomming together
  • [2:10] Mike: and
  • [2:20] Mike: yeah, e tell you that I wouldn't want to swim in that pool anymore, because it's not. Oh, my goodness. Now they're zooming in closer e trickling out.
  • [2:21] Mike: Um,
  • [2:25] Mike: yeah. I mean, this is not doesn't seem hygienic. And also
  • [2:28] Keith: wow. Okay, pause there.
  • [2:46] Mike: There's another thing about that video that I wanted to bring up while I'm thinking about it, Keith, which is, um, he has her bathing suit pulled to the side. She's wearing a one piece bathing suit, and I've noticed we could talk about either thing first. But I've noticed in porn that there's I think there might be a fetish for people who pull the underwear aside or the baby suicide
  • [2:53] Keith: s So that's another sort of Yeah, I think there's a subreddit called panties aside.
  • [2:55] Mike: Do you have a fetish for that?
  • [2:58] Keith: I kind of like it. Yeah. It feels like
  • [3:09] Keith: forbidden is not the word it feels like. Yeah, like you're you're in such a hurry, you know, like you can't even be bothered to take the underwear off. It's It's like,
  • [3:13] Keith: Yeah, it's I don't know if it's
  • [3:16] Keith: It conveys. Like an enthusiasm, I suppose.
  • [3:26] Mike: Yeah, I think I do. I don't like it because first of all, it requires, like especially with a bathing suit, where it's like elastic. It requires, like a hand
  • [3:35] Mike: doing something. I mean, you have to sit there and, like, hold, somebody has to hold it. I mean, in real life, like this doesn't seem like right. And the other thing is like, it's I just don't like the asymmetry of it.
  • [3:52] Mike: It's, like, sort of ugly to me, right? You have this book, this this nice piece of clothing that supposed to go right down the middle. And, of course, as a man, the middle of her of her, but or her body is the important part, right? The middle where all the good parts are on. Now you've put something off to the side, so it kind of confuses my brain and makes it a little bit less, um,
  • [3:54] Mike: erotic for me?
  • [3:57] Keith: Yeah. I mean,
  • [4:08] Keith: you do when? So, with this kind of porn, it's Well, this one is in, I guess, a modified doggy style. He's taking her from behind. She's they're both standing. Ah,
  • [4:10] Keith: yeah,
  • [4:15] Keith: yeah. I mean, I guess the swimsuit is including some things that you might like to see.
  • [4:27] Keith: Uh, and then, Yeah, I mean it, Z either to the left or to the right. I think it's normally the left, since most people prefer to use their dominant hand for other activities.
  • [4:28] Mike: Uh,
  • [4:33] Mike: well, you're left with Keith. So if you were going to do this, would you pull it to the right?
  • [4:41] Keith: Yes, Way Justice. Before I just simulated this in my mind, I would I would pull it to the right using my right hand and then use my left hand.
  • [4:48] Mike: But to be clear, a left hander, a za left handed man, You do actually masturbate
  • [4:49] Mike: right handed, I think. Isn't that right,
  • [4:54] Keith: Mr Left Handed? I don't understand how everyone else masturbates
  • [4:58] Keith: because, okay, you use the computer mouse with your right hand.
  • [5:15] Keith: And so ah, right handed person needs to constantly tasks, which between mousing and masturbating, mousing and masturbating and is a left hander. It's great. I can use my right hand, keep it clean to interface with my computer and use my left hand to, you know, do the needful.
  • [5:32] Mike: Let's put a note. I'll put a note to discuss this after we finished with the video, because there's something I could say about that. But what was your thoughts about the man's? Uh Have you ever, First of all, have you ever done that? Have you ever ejaculated into a swimming pool or other body of water, a bathtub or into a woman and then had to pour out like that?
  • [5:35] Keith: No, in fact, I'm sort of impressed.
  • [5:37] Keith: It doesn't.
  • [5:40] Keith: The natural lubrication the woman provides just
  • [5:48] Keith: evaporates or dissolves into the water. So you can't really go for very long before
  • [5:50] Keith: it's like, you know, sort of
  • [5:54] Keith: sliding. Yeah, the friction is not
  • [6:00] Keith: great, but it looked like they were doing it fine. You
  • [6:02] Mike: had sex under water. Have you had sex under water?
  • [6:07] Keith: Yes, but like, it's usually a few strokes. And then it's like, Okay, yeah, this isn't what I was hoping it would be. Just
  • [6:21] Mike: my experience with it is that and I have done it, too. Is that basically you kind of get your Penis in? And then there's a seal form. I mean, you're not actually pumping water into her vagina. It's a little,
  • [6:29] Keith: but yeah, apparently that can be an issue, though, Like you could get salt water or chlorinated water in there and that could be that could be an issue. But it is mostly
  • [6:31] Mike: unless you finish.
  • [6:36] Keith: Sure. Right. Inflicting you, Diaz? Um, yeah. Anyway, go on.
  • [6:42] Mike: Oh, so well, I mean, the u T I is gonna be the urethra, which is sort of like the But anyway, the
  • [6:43] Keith: fair point, Uh,
  • [6:52] Mike: the my experience is that, like, it sort of forms a seal. This might be because my Penis is ger thier than your is Keith, but it forms a nice seal there, and then what happens is
  • [6:55] Keith: theories here. But go on
  • [7:01] Mike: that you're that I Typically I'm having sex with the vagina. That's wider. E
  • [7:05] Keith: other possibility makes narrower in that case, but anyway, go on
  • [7:13] Mike: Narrow, narrow. You're right. Well, that that's gonna That's cool, too, because either it's actually interesting. There's no lose for me because either way, you win,
  • [7:19] Mike: right? Like I don't having a wider Penis and interacting with a narrower vagina. Both seemed good to me. Um, I'm comfortable with
  • [7:24] Keith: e China. I don't think I don't think any way this is going
  • [7:25] Mike: on.
  • [8:03] Mike: So yeah, so my experience of this is it forms sort of so normally, like there's kind of a you know, double sliding motion where both the entire apparatus goes in and out, but also like the skin on your Penis and the skin in the vagina kind of roll back and forth or something. And my experience is that with the water, it sort of stops the first, that first element of emotion. So, basically, you kind of lock into a certain depth, and then you're basically just like inverting and d inverting of vagina and also some of your skin on your Penis. Right? So you're basically like you can thrust, but it's like not it feels like something as death grip around you, And you're just sort of like manipulating without anything sliding in and out. Does that sound familiar to you?
  • [8:19] Keith: Gosh, I mean, that was very specific. I don't its and long enough. I don't I don't remember. Okay. There is another subreddit called lips. That grip that is not Yeah, you can see the way the labia sort of,
  • [8:21] Keith: uh,
  • [8:24] Keith: invert. And what's what's the opposite of invert vert?
  • [8:30] Mike: Yeah, I was looking for that word. Yeah. Divert, I don't know. Yeah, extrude extrude. Although that's not very nice.
  • [8:34] Keith: Well, anyway, yeah, here's the grip.
  • [8:47] Keith: I know how it normally is supposed to work. Because I've seen, you know, close ups of lips that grip plenty of times. I find that pretty sure telling, but I don't I don't remember in this video if it was clear to see whether her lips were gripping or exactly
  • [8:50] Keith: I just remember looking over normal.
  • [9:11] Mike: Yeah, there wasn't because most of the video was basically filmed. First of all, the water is going to kind of reflect the light, so you can't see what's going on underwater. And I didn't marry this too well, but like most of their body is above the water, right, Because, like, one of the problems, like, if you try. So, like, when I was at some point in my life, I lived in a house that had a swimming pool, and I thought, Oh, I'm gonna beat off in the swimming pool. Because, as you do, I mean, you have to try it everywhere, right?
  • [9:13] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Try everyone.
  • [9:43] Mike: Yeah, well, it's just required as a man toe, like you're like, Okay, you know, got to try it on a roller coaster. You've got to try it. An airplane like there's all these places, which is one of the reasons men get caught beating off. Is there just sort of going down the list of places they're supposed to dio during their life and the problem? I remember encountering. And so I didn't finish. I think I did go to my bedroom to finish or whatever was that. Like I could like the water resistance against my hand made it so I could It was not really fatiguing, so much as it just couldn't get a rhythm going with the water, right? You can't jerk your hand up and down, right?
  • [9:51] Keith: I think there are lubricants. I think there are lubricants. I don't know if it's a silicon based lubricant or ah,
  • [10:00] Keith: water based lubricant or like some sort of oil based lubricant, but there are lubricants that apparently work underwater better than others.
  • [10:07] Keith: So I haven't experimented with this at all, and so I don't know. But I know that without lubrication,
  • [10:09] Keith: sex and masturbating is not
  • [10:11] Keith: what you might hope it would be.
  • [10:25] Mike: Well, importantly, So you jump to the lubrication issue which is not actually issue, because the this this relates like how whether you're circumcised, uncircumcised how tightly circumcised For me, it's not an issue of lubrication because my foreskin moves sufficiently that, like, I don't need any lubrication while
  • [10:34] Mike: beating off. It was purely an issue of, like, the water resistance against my wrist, forearm and hand that made it so like I couldn't
  • [10:38] Mike: I just couldn't stroke it. The you just wasn't enjoyable,
  • [10:44] Keith: right? It added a little bit of extra whatever. And it's palpable.
  • [10:48] Mike: Yeah, you know, like for example, I'm sure you've noticed that at higher elevations you beat off a little
  • [11:11] Keith: faster. No, no, no. 001% less. Air resistance s but yeah. I mean, yeah, water is obviously significantly more density. Uh, and so yeah. I mean, I guess that makes sense that you would fatigue or at least it would feel different in a way that sort of annoying
  • [11:24] Mike: right? And people shouldn't. I mean, the rest of this video sort of shows why you really shouldn't go beat off or have sex and a swimming pool. It's just like that glob of semen. I don't know. It makes me wonder what's gonna happen. Say in an hour like is that glob just gonna float around
  • [11:30] Keith: E gonna water soluble, then greed it.
  • [11:32] Mike: Zip.
  • [11:53] Keith: It looked like a lava lamp kind of the way it was, you know, just moving around awkwardly. Did you notice the cinematography? So he stops it for slow motion, like it's a regular speed. And then at some point, the video slows down around the time that the come shot is dripping out. That's Bravo to him.
  • [11:57] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I don't really understand what the deal is with people who
  • [12:22] Mike: like so cream pie. Of course, I will search for cream pie porn, but it's because I specifically want to see a porn of a guy ejaculating in the, you know, coming in the girl. Not because I wanna watch it drip out. Now it turns out that cream pie porn really is the ladder, right? It's like there's some sort of fetish or desire to see that, and I find that to like biological. It grosses me out.
  • [12:25] Keith: Okay, Do you feel like here's the question.
  • [12:28] Keith: I agree with everything you just said.
  • [12:38] Keith: I'm wondering if I watched a cream pie porn and I thought, you know, the guys coming inside the girl and you know I nut around the same time and then,
  • [12:50] Keith: you know, a few seconds go by and it's like, Oh, just kidding. I was faking my orgasms. Would you be like Is the showing of the actual evidence additive in any way?
  • [13:01] Mike: No, not to me. In fact, like what? I what I thought you were. I thought you were going with that. And I've had this experience many times. It's annoying is that you'll finish or you'll be like, I'll be in the middle of Nutting,
  • [13:28] Mike: right? And I Yeah, I as men often do. I sort of time it with the actor in the film because I'm sort of like, I guess, mentally subconsciously pretending to be him. And, uh yeah, and then it will move over to quickly to the showing it using out thing. And a lot of times like the woman will push it out. So there's like, kind of quit being sounds stuff. Actually, that brings me up. Yeah, yeah, No. And I don't like I don't so actually, I would prefer I like the
  • [13:34] Mike: kind of really nature of knowing, he noted, although honestly, unlike the female orgasm with a man like
  • [13:44] Mike: Look, I don't need that much evidence. I'm willing to take it. Take his word for it, for the most part. Um, but yeah, like I I, um
  • [13:54] Mike: Yeah, yeah, I know. So if so, the long the short of it is if, like, if he pulls out and he hasn't actually not. And I don't think I would care, because I already would have finished myself. I might like not.
  • [13:59] Mike: It might ruin that video the second time. If I was watching, I'd be like, Oh, yeah. This is the guy who fakes it,
  • [14:01] Mike: and it would turn me off because of that.
  • [14:10] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if it's funny. I had thought about the long term implications of of a single actor faking? Uh,
  • [14:12] Mike: yeah. Destroyed his career. Yeah,
  • [14:15] Keith: I don't think I care either.
  • [14:22] Keith: I don't often time my orgasms too. I mean, it happens. Something don't now.
  • [14:29] Keith: No, I don't. Oh, wow. What is it? Yeah, she reason Because think of our our percentages here and reveal them.
  • [14:32] Mike: What? I just think the like.
  • [14:39] Mike: It depends, but I think that you okay. I think that usually okay, here here would be the baseline. Question is do you find that you time it
  • [14:41] Mike: in any way,
  • [14:45] Mike: right? Is it like, is there some part of a porn that typically is the part that, like
  • [14:48] Mike: Aziz? One girl once said The comer.
  • [14:56] Mike: I had a girl say that to me once, which was gross. Whose gross. But is there like a part that's like the thing that sort of, like causes you toe thio, get
  • [15:04] Keith: there? No to finish. I think I'm quite variable on this, but I know that I must not be because porn Hub shows those
  • [15:12] Keith: popularity grafts underneath the videos for various time stamps. And so it must be the case that lots of men try to
  • [15:16] Keith: time based on certain activities happening in the video.
  • [15:23] Mike: I don't think that try to time is the right way to think about it, right? It's just, I think for me it's purely like,
  • [15:28] Mike: Yeah, they're parts that are more or less exciting like, for example, like if you're watching a blow,
  • [15:51] Mike: Uh uh. You know, the woman just doing the act again and again does become repetitive. It's like an animated GIF that's just like recycling. But then, like as it gets closer, like things different things happen. And, of course, like it resembles. I'm actually sort of confused by the So, like I'm obviously the majority here because of those little graphics they show little graphs they show in Porn Hub like, Yes, I typically I would guess that like
  • [15:57] Mike: more than 75% of the time I nut during a peak of that graphic and you're saying that's not true for you?
  • [15:59] Keith: I don't think that's true for May
  • [16:06] Keith: I for I think I'm pretty random like I'll be in a different mood for a different position.
  • [16:10] Keith: There's not, like a certain position or moment that I like. I don't like,
  • [16:13] Keith: um, blowjob scenes. Typically,
  • [16:15] Mike: I know. Yeah, I got that
  • [16:19] Keith: that comports.
  • [16:21] Mike: There's nothing about those that you like
  • [16:25] Keith: about blowjobs scenes or about What do you mean? What's those
  • [16:30] Mike: blowjob scenes? There's like no interest in general. You always band. We're talking a woman, giving.
  • [16:39] Keith: I have I have. I like it sometimes. Also, that often comes at the beginning of porn videos.
  • [16:43] Keith: Not always. A lot of times there's a lot of switching going on.
  • [16:45] Keith: Ah,
  • [16:50] Keith: but generally it Z or often it's toward the beginning, anyway,
  • [16:54] Mike: okay, and you're saying that like so So what you're saying is that you will typically nut
  • [17:03] Mike: like they'll be in the middle like So Yes, So, like the times when I never like the obvious times like the guy is Nutting in her mouth. The guy is nothing in her vagina and her ass owner, but
  • [17:22] Mike: on her chest like they're just the obvious times. And that will be on also. Sorry, and also like the woman appears to be climaxing. Or like, There's something about the woman's. But it's something worth and you're saying, like you'll just be watching and they'll be he'll just be banging away from behind and you'll just be like, Oh my God and you'll nut Yeah, I would say in the middle of
  • [17:37] Keith: that I would, Yeah, I'm thinking about this as we're talking about it. I think I particularly like moments where a position is has just been changed. So, like he's like re inserting his Penis in the new position.
  • [17:43] Mike: Uh huh, That's interesting. So you're It's the beginning. It's actually the beginning that you find the hot. That's interesting. Is it because you, like, want to you like that sort of
  • [17:51] Keith: violating or something? Yeah, maybe it's It's like I'm imagining that moment of insertion and like the new stimulus,
  • [17:52] Mike: it's interesting.
  • [17:56] Mike: Yeah, I wonder what makes people, uh,
  • [17:59] Mike: people like one thing. Where's the other e? Don't return to this thing about the go ahead.
  • [18:05] Keith: Yeah, well, I was just to wrap that up. Yeah, I wonder if
  • [18:20] Keith: most men have Yeah, it would be interesting to chart this to see, Like what? Position and timing in the position. I'm most often masturbating, too. And it wouldn't take long to achieve a large sample size.
  • [18:38] Mike: It wouldn't be complicated for me. I mean, like, there's there's there's, like, a set of positions that I find more compelling and like it's Yeah, well, like I said, I mean, for the most part, those porn graphs just comport like I I know when I see one of those, I know that I could just do what the other people do, and it will be right for me, huh?
  • [18:41] Mike: Um, interestingly, a porn hub
  • [18:47] Keith: trusting Google's 1st 1st suggestion, right? Like you know, it's it's reliably good.
  • [18:52] Mike: Interesting. I have gone to porn hub gay before and done the same thing, and like
  • [18:52] Mike: it's
  • [19:07] Mike: it doesn't always make sense to me. where the peaks are. I can't be more specific than that, cause I don't remember what I saw, but I remember, like being like, huh? I wonder why the peak is here. And I was like, There must be something. I'm not getting about this because I'm not gay. Uh huh. But it wasn't always, like, right when the guy nuts.
  • [19:09] Keith: We should get a gay guest on the show.
  • [19:11] Keith: Sure
  • [19:14] Keith: could be interesting. Okay. All right. Anyway, so you have no
  • [19:23] Mike: hands. You? Yeah, the hand, the hand that used to masturbate. So I think you are making the point that, um if you're if you're
  • [19:26] Mike: everybody mouses with the right hand your left hand. But you're still mouse with your right
  • [19:35] Keith: hand because when you when you approach a computer, the mouse is always on the right side. And of course, I own my own computer. I could switch it, but I got used to using the mouse on the right,
  • [19:45] Mike: right? And that's probably really common. And so then there's this thing where you're perplexed because you're like, How do right handed. So it's a left handed person. That's actually quite convenient, because you can change which porn you're watching with your right hand
  • [19:48] Mike: and masturbate with your left hand,
  • [20:01] Mike: and that's just wonderful, right? But for your thinking, well, for right handed people, what do they dio right? Because it's like they've got this hand that's, like, useless. They've got the hand that they want to masturbate with and use the mouse with. And what what I've experienced in my life
  • [20:07] Mike: is that yes, indeed, when you're masturbating with porn, use your left hand and such so much so
  • [20:28] Mike: that I have actually found in my life that I associate. I associate masturbating with my left hand with beating off and my right hand with actual sex with a person. Definitely true, definitely trips like they have different sensations and, like I would, I'll give it going further. What I found is that, and I would say I became ambidextrous.
  • [20:40] Mike: I didn't break both arms, but I broke my right arm. I'm right handed and when as a kid. And so I did, of course, have to develop this ability with my left hand, which I suspect is common for men, especially with this mouse thing.
  • [20:42] Mike: Um,
  • [20:47] Mike: and there is a different sensation, but what I would say is I would say that my left hand makes it happen faster.
  • [20:53] Mike: And my right has more of like a kind of chill sort of experience, which makes sense, right, Because when you're with a partner,
  • [21:02] Mike: you're gonna do it sort of as an intermediate. It's gonna be more of like a a transit transitional thing. Whereas when you're by yourself, you just wanna get off.
  • [21:09] Mike: Yeah, so actually works really well for me, and I don't know if that's common for other people, but I wound up having it so But you're saying for you you just never use your right hand?
  • [21:12] Keith: No, I do sometimes, but it's unusual.
  • [21:14] Mike: Does that have any different feel to it?
  • [21:17] Keith: Yes, it feels different.
  • [21:34] Keith: E don't know. I don't have it as sorry. Excuse me. I don't have it is like, clarified in my mind. But yeah, I mean it zits different. It's not quite as good, but as with many things with sex, if it's different, that could be good. And, like the short term, right? Like anything a little bit like if I switch,
  • [21:38] Keith: you know, there's like that moment of new stimulus, which could be which could be nice.
  • [21:54] Mike: Yeah, I've even experience where, like, I'll be beating off. I've had this. I'm not sure how many times this is definitely happening. Where I'm beating off, I'll start to sort of lose my erection. Like it'll be like, I'm not this into this. And I'll realize this because I'm using my right hand. I'm like, Oh, I need to switch to my masturbating hand and then
  • [21:55] Mike: goes right. That's true.
  • [22:03] Keith: Yeah, I had a eight shit while running at the beginning of 2019. I think it was And
  • [22:26] Keith: I had a big cut on my left hand and yeah, I had toe masturbate right handed for, like, a month while it healed. And, wow, it wasn't as good. I remember I remember the first time searching back to my left and, you know, the wound wasn't completely healed. And I
  • [22:40] Keith: Yeah, like I remember being like, man, this is sort of depraved, like I'm so desperate to like, you know, return to my to my to my comfort masturbate again. But I'm like willing thio, you know, push, push the limits on. You know, the scab coming off on this wound
  • [22:50] Mike: you're ripping out ripping out your suitors or whatever just to get that. Get that hand down there. You didn't consider at the time like getting a flesh light or any sort of a toy?
  • [22:57] Keith: No, I have never tried any of these masturbation toys. I am interesting intellectually intrigued by trying, but,
  • [23:03] Mike: I mean, they have Ah, you know, brown paper bag packaging. I mean, you can order them from Amazon. Nobody has to know.
  • [23:06] Keith: It's the cleanup that I really don't want to deal with.
  • [23:23] Mike: Agreed? That is exactly the problem. Yes, because you also definitely have to put lubricant in there, right? It's not gonna work without. That's just gonna be this kind of disgusting on you're gonna have to clean it up. You have to clean it up right when you don't want Thio, which actually kind of leads into, I think, our first topic for today, right?
  • [23:37] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, Shall I read this? Oh, sure. Okay. This person says I was into my wife's kinky idea in the heat of sex. Then the post come come down
  • [23:59] Keith: during a both passionate slash raunchy session with my wife and nearing the finish line, I have her legs flung up over my shoulder and her ass propped up on a pillow while I go while I go to town. I usually reserved Wife says, Fuck me, Fuck me harder. I want you to come in my wet pussy. I know you want Thio. And then do you want to get kinky under heavy breaths? I gasp. Yes, she answers. I want you to lick your come out of my pussy.
  • [24:01] Keith: Uh,
  • [24:04] Mike: way.
  • [24:36] Keith: Yeah. So I love going down on her to begin with. And this sent shivers down my spine and definitely spurred me closer to the edge and soon beyond. I don't understand that part, but let me read the whole thing and we'll analyze, like, come heading. I do completely. Okay, Alright. My come head and even completely emptied out of my cock. By the time I became kind of grossed out by it, I crashed down under her and we began to make out and come down. We eventually laid side by side, Still embrace, both exhausted. While I was still thinking I should probably somewhat reluctantly get I should probably I should probably somewhat reluctantly get to work.
  • [24:39] Keith: I never got to that point, though. and we wound up falling asleep,
  • [25:01] Keith: and she had already came twice, But she was obviously wanting this. And now I feel badly and honestly today wish that I had gotten right on it. It sounds hot again, but right after it was the post oh, clarity that people always talk about. Has anyone gotten past this block? Or is it just a matter of either you want to or you don't? I'm probably going to have to answer for this or if it isn't mentioned, just do it next time.
  • [25:03] Mike: Yeah, Bravo to the guy that like his
  • [25:14] Mike: his his impulses like getting past it like I want this to happen. So in other words, what's really going on there? Is he okay, so first of all, I understand the fact that, like
  • [25:19] Mike: amped up the experience for him, because I think that it's simply
  • [25:26] Mike: like the woman participating in kinkiness sort of amped would amp it up. That makes sense to me like her Hassidic or something.
  • [25:28] Keith: It's it's that
  • [25:33] Keith: she's sort of talking dirty to him and see enthusiastic. Okay,
  • [25:45] Mike: yeah, so, like, I mean, I could imagine I could imagine, like if I were in that situation. I have not been in that situation. But if I were in that situation, I think maybe I would respond. Like, how about I feed it to you instead,
  • [25:48] Mike: or something like that? But I think you
  • [25:58] Keith: would be. You would You would have enough foresight. You would have enough foresight to know that you're not gonna wanna be licking down there after you cream pie Her.
  • [26:05] Mike: Yeah, well, I was reacting immediately to my use of the term feed. You feed it to you. It's disgusting. But you
  • [26:06] Keith: like, which
  • [26:17] Mike: is Okay, fine. So how about how about I You know, s O like I think that, like e would view it, I think is part of, like play. Although, of course, there be in the back of my mind like, Oh, this.
  • [26:34] Mike: Now I see where this is going. Like there's there may be a requirement here that I can't do. This is a potentially, like a relationship blocker. Um, but like so I understand why it would be sort of kinky or for him because she's, like, turn up the volume for him. Um, but yeah. I mean, like, the the
  • [26:45] Mike: like, the way I would internalize that. Is that as opposed? Oh, yeah. I can't evaluate whether while I was having sex, it was it would be hot to me. I think it's possible that I would view it is hot,
  • [26:47] Mike: uh, in the moment. But the thing is,
  • [26:49] Keith: I notice 100.
  • [27:23] Mike: Like the idea, the idea of going down on her afterwards, Like the idea that while I'm aroused because arousal depresses your like, discussed, reflect, so I might be like, this hot. The thing is, at the same time, I miss certain I would know that I wasn't actually going to want to do that. And I'm absolutely certain that afterward I would not want to do that. Um, well, I've seen videos of people doing this, and I'm always like, how How do you do that? Like it just because you're not in that mind state at all? Um, and it's not even yes. So you have to really surprise. You have to be, like on a drug or having sex to want to do it. I think for most men,
  • [27:37] Mike: Um, so I think it's interesting that, like his reaction here is like, How do I do it as opposed to like, Hey, this is a little weird kind of hot fetish play, but like he now is like, Hey, how do I how to actually fulfill this fantasy? And it's like You can't
  • [27:47] Keith: I don't think men are meant to consume their own semen, although, of course not women imagine. You could imagine a situation where semen
  • [27:54] Keith: should taste really badly to women because that's not where it's supposed to go to make Baby does.
  • [27:57] Mike: I mean, it doesn't like no you'll,
  • [27:58] Keith: but it's not like shit.
  • [28:00] Mike: Woman says it.
  • [28:06] Mike: It's somewhere. Well, that's I think that's because in order to make a taste that bad, it would be as bad
  • [28:08] Mike: as shit. It would actually
  • [28:28] Mike: diminish. It's actually it's actual purpose of like impregnating a woman, like sort of complicated. It's not that important, but, like there's certainly no selective pressure for it to taste good, right? I mean, that makes no sense. Like women generally like if pressed on this, it all be like, Yeah, it's not. It's not the greatest. It's just sort of something you tolerate, right?
  • [28:36] Keith: Do you think? Do you think that objectively, it's better or worse than the way a woman tastes
  • [28:56] Mike: I don't have that much, but there's a nice This is very clever. Ah, Little attempt there to get me toe Be like, Yeah, You know, last time I drink a point of it, it was great, but but in my limited, my very limited although non zero experiences we've discussed because I was willing to do do it for science, taste some of it. Um,
  • [28:59] Mike: yeah, I would say
  • [29:21] Mike: I would say sort of. It depends. I would say it's about on par. Although I understand this is not from experience of trying it, but I understand it electorally the notion that, like it's one thing to have, like, sort of very small amounts of it come out throughout the act and to have, like, this glob of it come out at the end is probably significantly worse. Like, for example, of a glob of stuff came out of the woman at the end. I don't think I would like that.
  • [29:24] Mike: And I'm sure I wouldn't like that. Yeah,
  • [29:27] Keith: yeah, e
  • [29:56] Mike: better if it was accompanied by her orgasm. Uh, yeah. Or like equivalently if a guy had, like, a fetish for her squirting in his mouth, squirting which is this urine? Of course. Um, which is not gonna taste great. It's gonna be gross, like, even though the fact that it's happening at the time of orgasm, although I think a lot of times courting it's fake. But setting that aside and she's just peeing, she's not orgasm in, but sometimes it is like incontinence or whatever associate with orgasm. Even then, I think you'd be hard Love it. But it's like one of those things that you could imagine tolerating.
  • [29:57] Mike: Um,
  • [30:00] Keith: so yeah, I don't
  • [30:13] Keith: Yeah, I don't have any tips for this man. I don't think it's something that you can easily get over like definitional. You're always going to be in, like, that moment of extreme whatever. The opposite of arousal is
  • [30:20] Mike: depressed drugs. I mean, the only I mean, the only other thing I could like there are these Absolutely. I mean, I don't wanna be to like
  • [30:31] Mike: putting out my own norms, but there are these people that I find this idea that I find revolting where, like, guys will be actually making me feel sick here. Just thinking about these guys who
  • [30:32] Mike: ah
  • [30:47] Mike: are so obsessed with this, that they'll be like Well, I know during my post net clarity, I'm not interested in it. But can I sort of, like, freeze it? Macon Ice Cube out of it. And the next time I beat off, I'll warm it up and God Ah, warm it up and try it.
  • [31:00] Mike: Now, in that vein, you could imagine, I guess the woman sort of just keeping it inside of her for 10 minutes, keeping it warm as it were. So that might be a tip for the guy. Like he could basically wait till he's aroused again, but
  • [31:09] Mike: okay. Yeah. I mean, it just begs the question even more. Like why? Like, why are you doing this? This is just gross, but yeah, he could do that.
  • [31:10] Keith: Yeah.
  • [31:16] Keith: I wonder if there's something about the demeaning nous of it that she wanted.
  • [31:20] Keith: Who knows? We don't know. We don't have enough. We don't have enough information here.
  • [31:27] Mike: Yeah, I was telling you like there is. There are. I mean, there are two kinds of porn's that I've seen That involves men.
  • [31:31] Mike: No, I've seen both. I've seen a porn where a man licks another man semen out,
  • [31:35] Mike: and I've seen a style of porn where
  • [31:48] Mike: the guy ejaculated in her and then she sits on his face afterward. And presumably it comes out. I've also seen a world sees it's on a woman's face and it comes out and it's pretty demeaning. Pretty demeaning. Mhm,
  • [31:49] Keith: Yeah, I
  • [31:51] Mike: mean, that's that. That has to be What's going on there,
  • [31:53] Keith: right? Right?
  • [31:59] Keith: Yeah, I guess. I mean, maybe she just said it in the heat of the moment. She doesn't care, either. We just don't know. Who knows?
  • [32:06] Mike: I should. You know, I should take a note, though. Keith toe Look at one of those porn's because I, I wonder. Speaking of the porn hub
  • [32:21] Mike: popularity Little graph. I wonder where the popularity graph peaks in a porn. That's one of these, like cream pie eating porn's. In other words, what are people beating off to? Are they beating off the cream? Thio ejaculating the woman? Are they beating off to our sitting on his face? And I bet it's the second one. If I had to guess
  • [32:25] Keith: your project, I'm not sure.
  • [32:28] Mike: And it's totally there. The date is all there, you know?
  • [32:30] Mike: Yeah, so
  • [32:36] Mike: and that is turns eating the cream pie. If you want to search it online. If you wanna watch one of these videos eating the cream pie. Yeah,
  • [32:43] Keith: Okay. Cream pie eaters. Good tip, Mike. Eso. All right, So this sort of dovetails into,
  • [33:02] Keith: ah, larger constellation of things around Orel. So that last that last Reddit post, it was sort of like an extreme thing, but I'm not quite sure how to do this. I've three different posts here, and if I read all three, it'll take a while. But I think I may need to in order to give, like, the full
  • [33:11] Keith: contours of the issue here. All right, so this first person says no, Aural is a deal breaker for me. Can you give me some examples of ways I could let prospective partners know this
  • [33:26] Keith: fellow vagina Havers, have you? How have you approached this in the past? What were the reactions you got from different approaches? If you tried more than one, what's your best? Our favorite way of going about it. Lovers of Vagina Havers. How have you been approached by this in the past? Where their ways
  • [33:30] Keith: of approach You appreciate it more than others. Why is that so?
  • [33:41] Keith: Yeah, This one says I'm 24 female and queer. And if I have a potential sexual partner whose preference is not to give Orel, then we're not compatible. Alright, so all right, so this person is wondering how do you figure out if someone
  • [33:44] Keith: we'll go down on you
  • [33:45] Keith: before
  • [33:50] Mike: she is queer? In this case, Queer means she's having sex with other women.
  • [33:59] Keith: I think it could be in either. But I don't know if that's important. Like the general point is like, How do you figure out if someone will go down on you
  • [34:19] Keith: before? All right, so the topic number. Alright, so thing number two here is none of these are very long, So all right. So this is for men that don't like giving Orel for men out there who don't enjoy giving oral to a woman. Why not? I'm genuinely curious. I know it's a lot of younger guys who don't like it, and I attribute that toe lack of experience. Personally, I've had one guy not like it when he was younger,
  • [34:32] Keith: but then when we met up years later, he had a totally different attitude. Was super into it. It said someone men taught him to appreciate it somehow, but the majority of other partners were very into it. So I'm very curious to hear why some men don't like going down on women.
  • [34:33] Keith: Okay,
  • [34:36] Keith: And then the third one is
  • [34:55] Keith: alright. So that one is yes. So both of these air sort of like at the at the beginning of a relationship. This one is more longer term. Alright. My wife told me she doesn't like giving head. My wife told me last night that she doesn't like giving blowjobs. I can accept that some people don't like doing certain things. That's their right. I can also accept that people can change their minds. I can also accept the fact that she may have said
  • [35:24] Keith: it in the heat of the moment. The thing that upsets me is that she won't talk about it blah, blah. That part's not interesting. Uh, this guy says I'm of the belief that if two people are in love and especially when married that they have chosen a person they want to be with, they love every inch of them that all of their body parts or desirable I'd like to add that this is unrealistic in real life but it's a general idea that could be true when the stars align, etcetera. I just can't imagine ever not wanting to touch every part of my wife for not pleasuring her when she wants it. When we have sex, I want our souls to become one
  • [35:38] Keith: In the of the moment, anything and everything is pure pleasure. Okay, so this guy's getting to the notion of interest in giving Orel diminishing,
  • [35:41] Keith: uh, S Oh, yeah, that's That's the That's the
  • [35:46] Mike: constellation of stuff he said was like the stuff he said that the last one was sort of nutty. I mean, we could cover
  • [35:49] Keith: that his romanticizing a bit.
  • [36:06] Mike: Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, you just It's just like it's a little confused because obviously, like I'm not, you know, I don't wanna like play with my wife's liver or something. I mean, everybody parties, air things. Yeah, it's really romanticizing, But the women, I mean, my personal opinion on this is that like,
  • [36:09] Mike: is that like
  • [36:23] Mike: the okay, I can say from my experience personally, the thing that made me be interested in giving Orel tow women is simply the fact that, like I know from the extensive research I've done since the late 19 eighties
  • [36:32] Mike: that when I was very young, but I had access Thio Various resource is, um, that
  • [37:32] Mike: most women, that is their primary way to have an orgasm. And so because of my interest, mostly, it's a prurient interest, like I don't know if I like. If you gave me a line of women and you said, Hey, I can't beat off I'm not allowed to pleasure myself. I'm just supposed toe pleasure them like I don't think I'd be into that. It's that, like, look like having a woman orgasm in a way that I think that I believe that's Riel is hot to me. Like it turns me on right? So it's like, OK, I want to do the thing that turns me on. What turns me on is for them, and I think this is normal, by the way. And so it's like you have an interest in it because, yeah, like it because it's the thing that for many, many maybe most women is like the primary means. Like when you're in a partner, sex like that's the most compelling thing for them. So you're like, so I so let me just finish the thought here is like, I think that I think that one of the things that one of the significant things, in my opinion that depress is men's interest in that is confusion around this point is basically women who are they're faking it or appearing to have 27 orgasms for through P i v sex, porn where they appear to do that. So men get confused about, like what works for a woman.
  • [37:33] Mike: And so then
  • [37:36] Mike: they think, Well, this doesn't matter. So anyway, go on.
  • [37:41] Keith: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to
  • [37:44] Keith: unpack here.
  • [37:52] Keith: I think it's interesting to point out that when you're not aroused, it's way, way, way less compelling
  • [37:56] Keith: on. And it's not just that they're saying is a man. Yes,
  • [37:57] Keith: yes,
  • [38:00] Mike: like a man e.
  • [38:06] Keith: I don't know how a woman's feelings towards going down on another woman change based on
  • [38:08] Keith: arousal.
  • [38:09] Keith: When I'm around,
  • [38:10] Mike: you could see that. Yeah,
  • [38:17] Keith: go ahead. The when I'm aroused, The idea of going down on a woman is like, really hot. I really enjoy it.
  • [38:22] Keith: Um, and when I'm not, I'm not super desperate to do it. And so
  • [38:31] Mike: if you if you weren't if you were not attracted the woman. For whatever reason, it's not hot. That's the situation where you're not aroused. All the other thing is, I think this is important.
  • [38:41] Mike: If, let's say Ali, who we've had on the show, she says she doesn't like it when people go down on her. I think it would be a lot of less now if you you might think I'm gonna be the one that convinces her,
  • [38:50] Mike: Uh, I'm different. Okay, fine. But let's say you believed her. Let's say you believed that she didn't like it that much, right? It's not her thing. Then you probably be a lot less aroused by doing it right?
  • [38:52] Keith: Yeah,
  • [38:54] Keith: I don't
  • [39:03] Keith: believe I suspect she's had bad experiences in the past, and she doesn't. That's interesting. She hasn't opened the
  • [39:08] Keith: yeah, the possibilities there. That's my suspicion, but you can see that's not relative
  • [39:17] Mike: anyway. But you can see there's like a physician. Heal thy self thing here, right? It's like you go around telling everybody that you don't like blowjobs
  • [39:28] Mike: because just because of some intrinsic element of it, and now you're immediately rigid. Look, I I know that I'm usually like the curmudgeon, but but here, Like, look, like Ali said, she doesn't like this thing. And you're like, No, no, she just hasn't
  • [39:42] Keith: had the teeth. There's somebody wants here. There's some nuance here. I like the physical sensation of receiving a blow job. Like it feels good. Okay. Okay. It Zamora that I don't like the pleasure asymmetry, and I feel guilty and badly about it,
  • [39:45] Mike: okay? She might be the same. I'm not sure about that, but okay. Yeah,
  • [39:50] Keith: yeah. Alright. Alright, so All right. So think one is, uh
  • [40:14] Keith: yeah, like a state of arousal matters for whether or not you want to do it. Thing, too, is this. This person puts us well in one of the comments on one of these threads and they say many people inaccurately believed that all vaginas have a strong and unpleasant taste and odor. I've only had one experience that fits that description, but that experience had been my first sexual experience. I probably would identifies the type of dude who didn't give head.
  • [40:23] Keith: Then he goes on also, some women enjoy it more than others and have specific preferences that they might feel uncomfortable voicing. And some don't achieve orgasm easily.
  • [40:41] Keith: Someone could have a wide variety of awkward and embarrassing experience is getting head that would discourage future attempts. Yeah, I think those were both Well said points, right? Like first? Yeah. Either in your mind or through actual experience, you might have had, like, experience where somebody had a yeast infection or some sort of whatever.
  • [40:45] Keith: Um Or maybe they just don't drink enough pineapple juice.
  • [40:50] Keith: Um, and then on the other. Yeah, like maybe you were with a partner who
  • [40:58] Keith: doesn't actually like Orel or doesn't feel comfortable receiving it because of various insecurities. Or before
  • [41:05] Mike: I made my initial comments on this, I thought about those actually, those possibilities And I went ahead and rejected them because I think that a
  • [41:07] Mike: women
  • [41:11] Mike: men, too. But women, I think mawr just for cultural reasons, maybe even
  • [41:31] Mike: kind of personality reasons to tend to be mawr, sort of careful about tend to be very careful about, like, things like how they smell. They care a lot about that. How they look, all these sorts of things. That tends to be the case. And so I think Well, of course I've read and personally experienced is Well, like thes issues where, like, it's not great. Like I had a partner once. Who?
  • [41:44] Mike: Yeah, it just wasn't wasn't great down there. I don't know what was going on. Exactly. Um, it could have just been like cultural odor. To be honest, this wasn't like a person who was gross, necessarily was person who showered s so I don't know, But it wasn't great and actually tried
  • [41:46] Keith: multiple times. Was it Was it
  • [41:48] Keith: like, a one time thing? Or do you remember?
  • [42:06] Mike: I think it was, like, three or four times, and I think like it was also like you would smell it on your Penis or fingers longer afterward. You know, it was like, maybe I think I think we might have just been like a genetic trait, honestly, for this person or maybe something Teoh to do with my nose like, I mean, it's some some sort of combination there, but like,
  • [42:09] Keith: obviously there's some variance
  • [42:13] Keith: way can argue about the magnitude of the variance, But
  • [42:42] Mike: yeah, I think I just think that, like my opinion, pure opinion here is that like that. And I think there was some other thing you mentioned. Oh, the person women who don't like it see again or it's not their favorite thing again. I think that my bias from my extensive mawr than extensive a lifelong research of the stuff is that it's that's not right. Like some very large majority, not 100% of women have. This is like a main activity that they like maybe the favorite activity. And I just think the thing I said is right that, like the
  • [42:57] Mike: like, their men who seriously undervalue this activity because they think that the women are supposed to all come from his Penis from their cocks. And that comes from porn and some sort of full porn. And I think the fact that women, um,
  • [43:02] Mike: play along with that belief more than yeah, and it actually is to their own detriment.
  • [43:07] Keith: Okay, Alright, fine. Do you think that
  • [43:10] Keith: it is
  • [43:17] Keith: selfish to refuse to go down on your partner, either male or female?
  • [43:24] Mike: I think female, I think. Yes, I think the answer is yes. But for female, I think it's not as big of a deal, although it's
  • [43:26] Mike: it's still a pretty big deal like I mean, I think that that might
  • [43:30] Keith: be like a female. Which direction do you mean
  • [43:40] Mike: female On Male. And I realized that's the direction you would say, Oh, it doesn't matter at all. But I think for many, maybe most men, it does matter. I wouldn't care if it wasn't her preferred activity,
  • [43:48] Mike: but it would be if it was, like, zero. I think here's why. Because let's say you're married to a woman and she won't do that. She won't give you a blow.
  • [43:55] Mike: You know, five years into your marriage or your relationship, whatever. Like you're gonna start fetishizing it and wanting.
  • [44:36] Mike: You're gonna wind up finding somebody who will do that now, if it was, if it's something on Maura unusual like anal, unless that's your really your thing or I don't know, some like somewhat unusual thing annals. A good one, because it's like sub 30% probability that people do that in relationships. Although not sub 10. It's like relatively common, um, there, I think, like somebody could do without. It blowjobs air so common that I think if you remove that like it's going to destabilize your relationship and and let me just finish with the flip side. A man refusing to do that for a woman if it's something the woman wants? Yeah, like I think I think is a guy. If you will not give a role to a woman, she's not gonna wanna have sex with you like it's going to destabilize your relationship because you're going to
  • [44:51] Mike: Yeah, like it's sort of like there's, like, this quote that you see on the sex subreddit and sometimes almost sort of sad. Like what's called dead dead Bedroom subreddit. I think it's called thes suburbs. For these dudes, actually, a lot of its women. It's both ways, not just men. But
  • [45:01] Mike: I bet it's more men because I think men often have higher sex drives where they're like, I never have sex, whatever and like they
  • [45:03] Mike: yeah, I mean, you just see you just see, like,
  • [45:06] Mike: how much? Like basically, like this quote that,
  • [45:15] Mike: um, you know, in a normal relationship, sex is important. But if there's no sex, it becomes the only thing that matters right. It basically destroys your relationship. And so, like I think
  • [45:25] Mike: the problem is that, like of a man fires that first bullet by basically refusing to give Orel for most women, that's going to make her much less like interested because she can't orgasm now.
  • [45:33] Keith: Yeah, I mean, I think it also implies I think it also implies, like a lack of physical attraction, like,
  • [45:41] Keith: just like we were saying earlier, Like arousal makes wanting to go down on your partner seems super compelling.
  • [45:46] Keith: Yeah, like if you never feel compelled to do that right, Like the corollary is,
  • [45:50] Keith: you're probably just not as attracted to that person anymore. And that's
  • [46:02] Mike: that's right. Like like I I, for example, have like, if you like, I don't like, for example, as you know, don't like drinking out of cups. You like to share toothbrushes with people. I would never do that.
  • [46:05] Keith: It's something like, I don't that I could tolerate it, But go on,
  • [46:15] Mike: you just don't care. No, you don't think that's fine. You know you don't go out and, like, ask people for their toothbrushes so you can use them, and it's not like it's not just doesn't matter that much to you. Um,
  • [46:50] Mike: I don't like sharing cups of people, although to be fair, like I was a little vindicated on that one because I was reading an article about co vid that said that after the 1917 18 flu pandemic was when people decided not to all share the same cup. So like there is some rationale behind my butt. But I'll admit that it's a subconscious sort of just squeaked out by something thing. It's not. It's not like I sat down and looked at the science. I just don't like it anyway. The point I want to make is that I without unless I'm somewhat aroused, like I don't really love kissing even. And that's an example that falls along, falls along with your thing is like That's actually like a
  • [46:56] Mike: a Nintendo asi decrease her and makes the other person feel less attract that you're less attracted to them.
  • [47:03] Mike: But it's it's not that. It's just that I just don't like it unless I'm around like I need that like a little bit of arousing like Norm, I discussed
  • [47:10] Keith: generally the secondaries. Generally, these air like canaries in the coal mine. Like if you
  • [47:14] Keith: have faded interest in fairly normal,
  • [47:18] Keith: uh, intimate activities, Yeah, I mean,
  • [47:21] Mike: but that's not what's going on with me. What's going on with me is like
  • [47:23] Keith: No, no, no, no. I understand
  • [47:48] Mike: like people, much without some amount of arousing. Like sure, in high school. I really liked it because if a girl would touch me, I was aroused, right? And as you get older, like aroused, a little harder to come by. But so the point being that like, but the important point here is that your partner is going to take it. It's gonna be hard for them to be like, Oh, yeah, he just needs is discussed, reflects decreased. And it's like, Wait a minute. Why is he so disgusted by me? It's just There's nothing good there. So it's much better for you, just a
  • [47:55] Mike: just to grin and bear it. And so for men like, Yeah, I mean, I think it's better to just find a way to, and I
  • [48:07] Mike: Okay, I can respect that. They're men. You just don't like to do this, but it's like you're creating a problem for yourself, that's all. And I think women are too, like I think it's better for a woman just to give blows like once or twice a month.
  • [48:20] Keith: Okay, what do you think? It's a reasonable long term expectation, right? So, like, I I don't think most people in their seventies are going down on each other, right? And, you know, maybe a few more in their sixties, a few more in their fifties like what is
  • [48:38] Keith: like It's not shocking that interested this tapers off, but, like, what is a realistic like Like this guy's thread. This this guy says. My wife told me, I can't remember if he said how long they've been married or yeah, he doesn't say anything about Age is always says we've been together nearly 10 years.
  • [48:40] Keith: Um, including before they were married.
  • [48:42] Keith: Um,
  • [48:44] Mike: I just look,
  • [48:47] Mike: the reality is that if the woman
  • [48:52] Mike: that I think that for there are a lot of women because women, a lot of women don't masturbate very much
  • [48:57] Mike: and so there's a lot of women where this is, like, their main way that they would get an orgasm,
  • [49:03] Mike: and so you're basically like so to the extent that she wants to have an orgasm, you may actually be taking that away from her,
  • [49:09] Mike: um, or a partner one. And also so there's that. But also like in my experience has been
  • [49:11] Mike: that
  • [49:15] Mike: the orgasm women get from Orel is usually more intense,
  • [49:19] Mike: so you're basically taking away sort of that peak enjoyment experience,
  • [49:28] Keith: right? All right, so? So even if it's not binary, if it was some sort of grated thing, it's still you're removing the highest grades. Yeah, okay.
  • [49:34] Mike: I've almost never seen a woman on the sex subreddit be like, Yeah, I wish, you know, Ali would be the exception, right? But like
  • [49:48] Mike: where it's like, Oh, man, I'm just so tired of him going down on me. You very frequently see this thing where it's like they're like, there's no reciprocity. Like I give him blows all the time. He won't do it, and I think there's like, a certain to get the impression. It's like a masculine anything or something that he's like, Oh, this
  • [49:55] Mike: this is you know, I'm not. I don't want to do that because it's embarrassing or submissive or something, which it is. Actually, it is embarrassing.
  • [49:58] Keith: I feel like it indicates a lack of
  • [50:02] Keith: arousal and therefore interest,
  • [50:08] Keith: like, especially if it comes Thio and he no longer will like that. It's just
  • [50:17] Mike: well, like I said, though I think it can also be like if there's not enough communication in the relationship. I think it could easily be that he just thinks that like she's coming all the time from P. I V.
  • [50:38] Mike: And now if a person gets to the point of woman gets to the point of posting on Reddit about it, hopefully she's like, said something to him about it. And I think it's some of the questions they did definitely that you read. They did have conversations, but like, Yeah, I just think I just think like there is there. Both sides play a role here where, like the guy, I think many, many, many guys are confused about how women orgasm.
  • [50:41] Mike: Maybe I'm the one that's confused.
  • [50:45] Keith: It's boss wealth that would comport with many guys being confused. Yeah, I think
  • [50:46] Mike: exactly.
  • [50:49] Keith: Men don't appreciate
  • [51:14] Keith: a lot of things about how women work, but all right, let's move on. So this'll person says, I 26 year old female want to be gang banged. How do I go about organizing one safely, safely in all caps? Hi. All ended a long term relationship a few months ago that took up much of my twenties. I lost my virginity to him. Now that I'm single, I'm feeling frisky and confident. And since I've always had this fantasy of being gang bang, I thought, Hey, why not? It's my life, right? I wanna have a little fun.
  • [51:27] Keith: Question is, how do I go about actually doing this? I'm an attractive young woman and don't have any trouble finding solo guys who want to bang me. I live in a large US city with the university, but this is with the universe. She's 26. Good for her. But this is a very
  • [51:31] Mike: interesting college with it's a city with a university.
  • [51:33] Mike: Mhm.
  • [51:35] Mike: Well, I'm sorry. What were you reacting to? There was
  • [51:42] Keith: a large US city with a university. Why does she need toe? Add that it has a university of she's not interested in men in there.
  • [52:20] Keith: Late teens, Early twenties anyway. Doesn't matter. All right? No idea. Yeah, eso she's Yeah. She said, Do I ask my orbiters? Do I go onto tinder? Do I start with one guy and ask if he has any friends who would also want to talk dot dot Bang me. I also do not. Okay. And this is this is important. I also do not want the typical degrading type of gang bang one might first think of. I don't want to be hit, choked, spit on, raped, verbally degraded or anything like that. I just want to be wanted and taken by a group of 3 to 4 hunt horny young guys who hears Young again. Shared. So there are boundaries I have about this, but I'm wondering if most guys would only be interested in the other thing. I wanted to be good experience for everyone, something that they can even bond over.
  • [52:29] Keith: Ideally, I would like to get to know the guys first. Do I date them each separately, or propose a super awkward group date? Not gonna lie. The awkwardness turns me on. Maybe both.
  • [52:37] Keith: As you can see, this is all very new to me. All advice. Welcome. Especially if you think this is an awful idea. I have no idea what I'm doing.
  • [52:38] Keith: She has a couple of years.
  • [52:41] Mike: Narrator a narrator Comment. It's an awful idea. Go
  • [52:45] Keith: on. She has a couple edits here that are
  • [52:55] Keith: I don't know, interesting. Okay, One I will absolutely require testing and proof of is well, is condoms. This is something that is given for me. Whether it be with one dude or three.
  • [53:19] Keith: They have to test if they want to have sex with me. Right? Okay. All right. So they have to be STD tested and condoms. All right, too. Ah, lot of people have recommended sex clubs, but that is just not my scene. I really I'm really uncomfortable doing this kind of thing with older people, even people in their thirties. Okay, so she does like younger men. My fantasy has always been doing it with regular guys who have most likely never done something like this before. Maybe even a virgin or two. I don't care.
  • [53:30] Keith: Okay, I'm gonna stop reading, uh, the final light it is. Please stop PM ing me unless you have legitimate advice to offer. I'm not interested in meeting anyone from Read it for any reason.
  • [53:31] Keith: Right? So,
  • [53:38] Mike: uh, wow, there's a thing that's interesting to me here, which is that, like,
  • [53:44] Mike: I think it's interesting. So she's basically, like, constructed this scenario that's obviously very specific.
  • [53:53] Mike: And what? The thing that immediately just in my head is like, of course, of course, a man would like the same thing just with all the roles reversed. So, like, you know,
  • [54:00] Mike: I think it would be great to have a gangbang with five young, attractive women. Horny. I'd like that. That's you
  • [54:07] Keith: would like that, too. Of course. I just think that her fantasy is more likely to be something that she could pull off, given that, she said.
  • [54:31] Mike: So this is the point. Those I think it's about the same. I think that the odds Theobald ity of me, too. In fact, I'll be I'll go further. I think it'll be easier for me to get that than her, because all I would have to dio is find a sex worker who had some friends who was willing to do it. And I don't think that would be very hard and, you know, via one of the various channels I could do that on, whereas for her
  • [54:33] Mike: like
  • [54:41] Mike: Well, okay, if you if you if you said that I wasn't allowed to use a sex worker, then it would be hard, but it would be around the same, like it's just very, very hard to get
  • [54:51] Mike: like she's, she's she's piled up all these things like the first past thought I had was you going like fat life or to like a fetish club or club or something. And it's true you will get older people there. But you'll be able to do it safely and
  • [54:55] Mike: you'll have the experience. But with what she wants is virtually impossible because
  • [54:59] Keith: she wants people who have, like, who are new at having sex and who are just normal
  • [55:14] Mike: should have to hold auditions virtually. I mean, she would get people auditioning, but honestly, I think if okay, if I want to do what I have to pay that I could hold auditions I took to pay, she would not probably have to pay. Although, I don't know, like, I wouldn't sign up for this as a guy,
  • [55:20] Keith: you know? Well, yeah, I wanted to ask you that. Is this something you'd be interested in participating in? It sounds like No,
  • [55:23] Mike: definitely not. Because because it's
  • [55:24] Mike: well,
  • [55:27] Mike: there's a few things. I mean, the first passes, like I'm just not interested in.
  • [55:30] Mike: I don't want to watch.
  • [55:40] Mike: I don't wanna be in the same room with another man having sex. I don't like That's not my like, I think I think that would actually like I've watched enough gay porno that like it. It might actually turn me off so much that I
  • [55:56] Mike: I would basically lose my erection and stuff like I wouldn't be interested. I would just leave. But also, like, there's a vague element of danger when their other men involved, right? It's like I don't I don't If there's like five guys there, it's like, What's gonna happen? Like, am I gonna get raped? Like, What's gonna happen? It's It feels like kind of a dangerous situation with me, right?
  • [55:58] Keith: Yeah.
  • [56:02] Keith: So, yeah. More dangerous for her? Yeah, her.
  • [56:06] Mike: Ah, well, well, that's what that goes down that road of like,
  • [56:12] Mike: you know, for her since having sex with men is not noxious to her. It's fine. Where is, like,
  • [56:33] Mike: yeah, I mean, like, all it would take for me to feel sort of violated is a guy to come to start rubbing his cock all over my body. I mean, it wouldn't be very hard for me to have, like, an experience that I can't un have that I don't wanna have, you know, like like something that's something like a sexual assault. And so it's like I don't really wanna be. Since I'm not gay, I'm not interested. And I'm not by I don't wanna be in that situation. So it would be pretty negative for me.
  • [56:36] Mike: I think a lot of guys would feel that way.
  • [56:42] Keith: Yeah. I mean, I'm not interested in this for the same reason I'm not interested in a m f M threesome,
  • [56:50] Keith: which is Yeah, I just don't want to be in the same room with another man. Um, but
  • [56:53] Keith: I don't know. I feel like
  • [57:08] Keith: I feel like she would never do this because, you know, she would be ashamed to do so. But if she posted this to her Facebook or to her instagram, I bet there would just be Ah, bunch of people. And yet she called them in her orbit. I bet there would be a bunch of people that would be like, Yeah. All right,
  • [57:10] Keith: Let's go.
  • [57:14] Mike: Yeah, but then she would always, for the rest of her life be the person that wanted the gangbang.
  • [57:17] Keith: Yeah. I mean, it's it's complicated, right? Like just
  • [57:21] Mike: for a man to its misogyny thing. Like, if I,
  • [57:34] Mike: you know, set up something that was publicly available that said I was doing that like it would be Maybe not might even be equally as sort of socially unacceptable for me. But like for a woman, it certainly would be a challenge for her, right?
  • [57:36] Mike: Yeah. Just personally.
  • [57:41] Keith: Yeah, but okay, fine. But I think the difficulty here. Okay,
  • [57:45] Keith: I think there are plenty of men who would want to do this.
  • [57:52] Keith: Yes, and I don't know what the best way for her to find them is. But
  • [58:03] Keith: I think I think if I Yeah, I don't think I could easily stumble into a fivesome with four other women. And I think she could fairly easily do so with four other men.
  • [58:12] Mike: Well, the important thing when you say, stumble in, like, very importantly, you're excluding going toe like some club after Cove It, of course, in Vegas And basically hiring five women,
  • [58:15] Keith: she could go to a bar, right?
  • [58:16] Mike: I don't know, man. Like if
  • [58:22] Keith: somebody a woman attractive, there's physical safety aspects. But
  • [58:32] Mike: I don't think that, like in a bar, like if someone approached you in a bar, Okay. You're saying you think there are a lot of men that would want to do this? I think it's a lower percentage than you think. I think that in a bar would be difficult.
  • [58:37] Mike: Um, and also right. I mean, like, you have You know nothing about the person, right?
  • [58:42] Mike: Like, and I think that for a woman, Yeah, like you said, safety aspects like it matters more
  • [58:56] Keith: for her. There's definitely safety aspects. But, I mean, women have safety aspects with initial sexual encounters with basically even one man. And so, yeah, I want to tease that out because I totally concede that's a thing. But
  • [59:07] Keith: that's that's always going to be the case. Um, I just think, Yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't know what the, like turnkey solution to this is That would make this easy for her. But I feel like there's something.
  • [59:17] Mike: Yeah, the issue is yeah, and it's interesting. That's a thing that would be interesting. Actually. Ask a female guest about, like how the safety aspect, like how that
  • [59:42] Mike: how that works. I mean, like, it reminds me of this post I read on the sex subreddit about. I think I mentioned this a few episodes back. Maybe, where there was a guy who just gotten pegged and had, like, sort of or maybe was a woman pegged her boyfriend, Bond. He reacted weirdly emotionally. And there was this whole thread of women talking about how, like, how different sexes when you're getting penetrated. And that sort of intrigued me was like, huh? Like I hadn't. I mean, obviously, I know people get penetrated,
  • [59:46] Mike: but it hadn't really occurred to me that strongly that, like
  • [60:04] Mike: like there'd be some dimension. It's two things, one that there'd be this, like emotional dimension caused by that potentially. And the second one is that that emotion might be available to me. I don't want to be pegged, but the notion that in my brain there is that emotion of, like, some different experience from having this vulnerable thing happened to me. And so it's sort of interesting. Like how a woman
  • [60:08] Mike: Yeah, it plays into the safety aspect, right? That women,
  • [60:11] Mike: this thing that happens to women is, like
  • [60:18] Keith: has a different experiences more traumatic or has potential to be materially more dramatic.
  • [60:31] Mike: So it's like for a guy, it's sort of hard, almost hard. It's hard to talk about, like when when I think is a guy about a gang bang, you know, I think I imagine myself with a bunch of women or imagine myself as one of a bunch of men fucking a woman.
  • [60:46] Mike: It's actually really hard for me to reason about being a woman who, like, I guess, lies there and has a bunch of guys do that to her that that e can. I don't know what that would be. I know so little about what that would be like that it's hard for me to comment like I don't understand it at
  • [60:49] Keith: all.
  • [60:51] Keith: My guess here is she
  • [61:01] Keith: wants to feel cared for based on the other details of what she said in her description here, like she just wants
  • [61:04] Keith: to be treated like a queen by a bunch of dudes at the same time, like that's that's what's that's
  • [61:11] Mike: not what I mean. That's then she's barking up the wrong tree because I know that I know I'm gonna have,
  • [61:15] Keith: right. I mean, the narrator that what
  • [61:23] Mike: do we do with the queen? Well, we all gangbanger. It's like, no, they server food and cleaner clothes, and I mean, it's not right. Anyway,
  • [61:25] Mike: it's not how that works.
  • [61:29] Keith: Yeah, all right. You want to say anything else on this topic?