Enjoy YMMV? Please click the above button to subscribe to the show!
Give us your email for show notes and reminders:  
To participate or give feedback, email us at ymmvpod@gmail.com.

Episode 30: Tribbing, Rimming, Penetration and Jealousy, Pegging, Sex Dreams

Team YMMV | 3-7-2021 | 1:05:16

Read The Transcript

      RSS             S      

Ally is on the show again, helping us understand the appeal of a scissoring/tribbing video. She also gives some female insight into pegging and how being penetrated differs emotionally from being the penetrator in sex.

Keith wants to discuss some recent requests for rimming, something he's not sure he's interested in doing.

And, we analyze a sex dream involving a detached penis.

To follow along with the video discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/30/tribbing

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here's a link to the question we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/30/sex-dream

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:04] Mike: I'm pretty sure that if you were in an M f F threesome.
  • [0:08] Mike: Yeah, I like to see the second woman showed up in the middle. I don't know.
  • [0:09] Mike: Yeah,
  • [0:10] Mike: I think you would, Rimmer,
  • [0:12] Mike: I g would.
  • [0:20] Mike: I think you would. Because you just be like like, yeah, if that was the price to pay and and it wouldn't even you wouldn't even think of it as a price to pay. You just be like, this is so great that you would just do.
  • [0:23] Keith: Okay, fine. You're right. You're right. You're right.
  • [0:26] Mike: Damn.
  • [0:34] Keith: Hello, And welcome to your mileage. May vary. We talk about sex and relationships. I am Keith. My co host is Mike. How's it going, Mike? It's going great.
  • [0:39] Keith: We also have fan favorite Ali back on the program today. Say hi to the crowd, Ali.
  • [0:41] Ally: Hey, guys.
  • [0:46] Keith: We have what I suspect are going to be some entertaining discussion prompts today,
  • [0:51] Keith: but before we get into it, I'm obliged to ask you to please please rate us on your favorite podcasting app.
  • [1:06] Keith: I've heard that ratings show about sex is kind of vulnerable, But aren't we all supposed to be sex positive these days? And the reviews are anonymized anyway, so help us out if you would. We also pay $15 for any feedback we receive at Y mmv pod at gmail dot com.
  • [1:14] Keith: All right, so we normally start our show with a brief porn viewing, followed by some commentary. What you have for us today, Mike?
  • [1:21] Mike: Okay. Yeah, I have a nice, uh, just one today we can watch maybe a minute of and, uh,
  • [1:26] Mike: we'll put the link up in the show. Notes. We're gonna start at about 50 seconds into the video.
  • [1:34] Mike: Um, people can queue it up for themselves if they want to follow along with us, and I will narrate it. Unless does someone else want to narrate this one? No, I I'll do it.
  • [1:35] Mike: Okay. Ellie, are you
  • [1:42] Keith: ready? Dude, are you at the right time? Stamp. Okay, I'm going to start in 321 starting.
  • [1:54] Mike: All right. It's two women and they have their crotches sort of glued together. Um, and you one of them is lying down. One of them is kind of on top of the other. This is a position called tripping.
  • [1:59] Mike: Tripping. Tribalism, I think, is the long form of the word,
  • [2:02] Mike: and they just sort of grinding their crotches against each other.
  • [2:04] Mike: Apparently, this is like a fairly
  • [2:08] Mike: common, somewhat common lesbian activity.
  • [2:10] Mike: Um,
  • [2:15] Mike: you can't really see. I mean, basically, they're glued together in such a way that you don't see sort of
  • [2:27] Mike: you see, a lot of, like, the surrounding skin, but you don't see, uh, their vagina too. Well, there is a man there, by the way. I'm just reached out and yeah, he's holding. He's holding the camera. Okay.
  • [2:31] Keith: I thought it might have been the most surprising one girl, but okay,
  • [2:32] Mike: Yeah,
  • [2:36] Mike: they're going to switch positions after a while, but I just wanted to, uh Wow, that's Yeah,
  • [2:38] Ally: that was Yeah.
  • [2:41] Keith: She does. Yeah.
  • [2:41] Mike: Yeah,
  • [2:48] Mike: kind of rough there, so I mean, this is going to continue for a while. We can We can posit and talk about it if you'd like. Okay, let's pause.
  • [2:51] Keith: The music. Does have some nice background music.
  • [2:53] Mike: Yeah,
  • [2:57] Keith: I think that was just playing in the background. I don't think that was over laid to the
  • [2:58] Keith: to the video.
  • [3:01] Keith: Uh, how is that different from sizzling?
  • [3:03] Mike: I think it's the It's the same.
  • [3:10] Keith: Are they exactly the same Or is there like some weird difference between scissoring and tripping?
  • [3:14] Ally: Nobody knows. I had not heard of tripping before. I hadn't.
  • [3:16] Keith: Is that like the British term for sizzling or
  • [3:18] Mike: something
  • [3:23] Mike: That's actually from the Latin? Okay, I don't know. All
  • [3:25] Keith: right. Um
  • [3:32] Keith: Well, okay, I thought this was sort of compelling to watch. Is it possible?
  • [3:33] Keith: Two,
  • [3:39] Keith: like, it's almost like their labia are sort of pulled apart. And they're making, like, really good.
  • [3:46] Keith: Like they're both using their pubic bones to sort of stimulate the other person's clit. Is that accurate?
  • [3:50] Mike: I wonder whether you can actually do that.
  • [3:54] Mike: Like, if If it works for both of them at the same time, actually, like, I don't know,
  • [4:01] Mike: Um I mean, obviously they're acting for the gentleman, the tattoo tattoo gentleman who reached out and started messing with them.
  • [4:02] Mike: But
  • [4:11] Mike: I don't know, really. What do you think? Do you think that would work? Well, I mean, I think it might work better for the woman who is lying flat on her back versus the other one who's like,
  • [4:16] Ally: perpendicular to her and has to prop herself up behind her. That seems like
  • [4:18] Ally: that's like a tricep for Canada.
  • [4:24] Keith: Couldn't you make the argument that the one that's sitting up more has more control?
  • [4:25] Keith: More active?
  • [4:27] Ally: I think she does. Yeah, but I think that would
  • [4:29] Ally: make it may be harder.
  • [4:31] Keith: You're worried about the arm fatigue?
  • [4:31] Ally: Mhm.
  • [4:34] Ally: I
  • [4:37] Keith: don't know how long they've been going at it here, but
  • [4:39] Ally: this video is 16 minutes.
  • [4:43] Keith: Okay, that's true. Well, you saw like that one minute slice, but
  • [4:45] Ally: I guess it's not. That's not the only thing they do. And
  • [4:50] Mike: there's some other stuff that happens that the guy gets more involved. So
  • [4:51] Mike: weirdly little
  • [4:57] Ally: graph shows that people get less and less interested as time moves on, even though other things happen.
  • [5:14] Mike: You're right. I think that this is the most interesting. Well, first of all, those graphs. Yes. The graph shows the high point is right at the beginning, which there's always a high point at the beginning. Right, because people sort of start at the beginning. Um, but yeah. I mean, like, I found this because it was a link to this particular activity. And probably
  • [5:18] Mike: once the man shows up, it's less interesting to the viewers. Um,
  • [5:22] Keith: yeah. I was not happy about the Harry forearm That was
  • [5:27] Keith: not helping helping anything when it shows up out of the blue.
  • [5:30] Mike: Uh, actually, it makes sense to go ahead here.
  • [5:31] Keith: Like I
  • [5:35] Keith: This is somewhat compelling. Um,
  • [5:49] Keith: and the notion that they are able to get themselves off by this is compelling. I like when he zooms in. You can see there's, like, some moisture from both parties. Well, actually, I guess I guess it's hard to know if there's moisture from both parties, but, like they, you know, they seem to be
  • [5:55] Keith: enjoying it. Like, how much of this do you guys think is performative versus?
  • [6:06] Keith: I mean, the name of the video is too sexy. Bisexual roommates experiment with sizzling slash tripping. But that actually sort of betrays that. You know, maybe this is not super
  • [6:08] Keith: authentic.
  • [6:09] Keith: Well,
  • [6:16] Ally: it looks and sounds wet, I guess. Whether you're asking is that loop or is that natural? I don't know. I mean, it
  • [6:19] Keith: sounded kind of sticky. It didn't sound like lube.
  • [6:23] Mike: Did you actually need lube for this activity?
  • [6:24] Mike: I mean,
  • [6:27] Keith: she should use shaving cream.
  • [6:35] Ally: Well, that reminds me of that discussion you guys had before. I think that pubic hair preferences are more cultural
  • [6:37] Ally: Then you guys did. Because I've
  • [6:39] Ally: been with two
  • [6:48] Ally: older men who may have started watching porn in, like, the early to mid seventies who had a strong preference for pubic hair. And like, you know,
  • [6:52] Ally: if I showed up shaved, they would be, like, a little bit disappointed more culturally
  • [6:55] Keith: weren't saying that to virtue signal.
  • [6:57] Ally: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [7:01] Mike: I'm interested in you showing up shaved. What's that
  • [7:06] Ally: like, if if I hadn't seen him for a while. And then like, we
  • [7:11] Ally: start fooling around and I get undressed and like, he realizes that I have shaved
  • [7:16] Mike: somebody who's porn preferences were formed in the seventies, so he would be born in, like, the fifties
  • [7:17] Mike: sixties,
  • [7:21] Ally: late late fifties, I think.
  • [7:24] Mike: Just sort of Yeah, that's a
  • [7:30] Ally: while ago. What I'm saying is the seventies were a time when porn had more pubic hair. And so that
  • [7:36] Keith: seventies, I think chest hair and body hair generally were very more involved than they are now.
  • [7:46] Mike: Yeah, so did they. I mean, okay, so this is interesting, alley, because, um, I think that I've consumed both types of pubic hair porn.
  • [7:54] Mike: Um, but I just think that like I understand the current preference that men have because it's just like it makes
  • [8:02] Mike: well. I mean, there's, like, a practical dimension, right? It makes things sort of easier to deal with on some level. And also, like, aesthetically
  • [8:04] Mike: like I mean, there's
  • [8:13] Mike: it makes sense to me because unless you go back really far in the past, there's sort of a cultural thing around. Women shaving legs, armpits so on and so forth.
  • [8:20] Mike: So I'm kind of curious. What, like, do these people communicate? Like what? The specific
  • [8:22] Mike: Why they specifically found that compelling
  • [8:29] Mike: the present? I could I could see being indifferent to it. I could see preferring shaved. It's hard for me to see, preferring
  • [8:30] Mike: Harry.
  • [8:33] Ally: Not like I mean, I guess not fully hairy, but like
  • [8:38] Ally: some hair trimmed or something, but not not clean shaven.
  • [8:43] Keith: What about like around the lady? And so I'm like, Okay, I feel like there's
  • [8:45] Keith: it makes oral sex.
  • [8:58] Keith: I don't want to say better or worse yet, because I want your opinion on that without biasing it, but I don't really know what mine is, but I would think that oral sex would be worse even for the receiver if she had pubic hair.
  • [9:00] Mike: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
  • [9:04] Ally: I mean, as you know, oral sex is always bad for me. Is there? Um,
  • [9:05] Keith: you don't
  • [9:13] Ally: like what I've heard? Guys say, like some guys, apparently, you know, like the smell. And if you have more hair there it, like traps,
  • [9:15] Keith: whatever. So it has more
  • [9:19] Ally: of that odor. Yeah. And the other thing that I heard was just that it
  • [9:23] Ally: looks more womanly or something like that. They like the
  • [9:25] Keith: It's less juvenile. Maybe.
  • [9:27] Ally: Yeah,
  • [9:29] Keith: it feels like I think, like they might be virtuous.
  • [9:37] Mike: Exactly. Because because part of the part of what's going on here is you have I mean, these were men were significantly older than you, right?
  • [9:40] Mike: So I mean, but,
  • [9:40] Mike: like,
  • [9:41] Ally: yeah,
  • [9:49] Ally: we both know what's going on there, right? I mean, it would also make sense for them to be like, Oh, you look so young, right? We both understand why we're there.
  • [9:54] Mike: You think they just want to go all out and just be like, look, to shave, head to toe? Can
  • [9:58] Keith: you wear like a schoolgirl outfit, right? Exactly.
  • [10:00] Mike: Yeah.
  • [10:02] Keith: Also like that
  • [10:08] Keith: back to this video. Don't you think that if both parties had pubic hair. This would be a less comfortable activity.
  • [10:17] Keith: Like because they neither have pubic hair. They Yeah, they're able to sort of, like, glide against each other in a way that I think pubic hair would interfere with.
  • [10:19] Keith: Mhm.
  • [10:21] Mike: She has no opinion.
  • [10:22] Keith: Oh, no. No opinions.
  • [10:33] Ally: It's obvious. I'm thinking about it. Like, yeah, it would probably get in the way slightly. I've never tried this scissoring
  • [10:35] Ally: performance. Uh,
  • [10:37] Ally: but yeah, I think I could get in the way.
  • [10:47] Mike: Ali does. You said that. Men, um you said something, like some men, apparently, like the odor which took I took to mean that. You can't understand
  • [10:52] Mike: that. That's very sort of odd to you that I took this little signal there.
  • [10:56] Ally: Yeah, I'm allowing for the possibility that they say they like it, but they
  • [10:59] Ally: don't actually like it, and they feel that they should.
  • [11:07] Mike: Okay, so but I took it from that. Maybe this is wrong that you would not enjoy performing oral sex on a woman.
  • [11:09] Mike: Um,
  • [11:13] Ally: I wouldn't, but not because of the odor.
  • [11:15] Ally: I
  • [11:19] Ally: I just don't find, as you say. I don't find women compelling, so
  • [11:25] Ally: I know I would do it, I guess if it were required in some way, But
  • [11:38] Mike: I just want to know if this porn grosses are out. Like I mean, that's the thing. Like I mean, Okay, but or is it You're just Are you just like, uh, like in the way a guy like men, typically, unless you're bi or gay? I think most men
  • [11:46] Mike: don't really find gay porn compelling. But for you, it is it just neutral. Is it negative? Is it? Could you see masturbating to this?
  • [11:48] Ally: No, Probably not.
  • [11:49] Ally: It's
  • [11:50] Ally: okay.
  • [11:51] Ally: Yeah,
  • [11:55] Ally: it doesn't. Nobody asked, but I could definitely not telling. Right.
  • [11:59] Mike: He actually is masturbating to it right now.
  • [12:07] Keith: I've been quiet for the last 60 seconds. There's something I need to tell you. Uh,
  • [12:10] Keith: yeah. No, this is this is this is compelling.
  • [12:11] Keith: Uh, yeah,
  • [12:13] Mike: I actually, uh
  • [12:14] Mike: I, uh
  • [12:19] Mike: It's moderately compelling to me. I think the fact that, like it's
  • [12:26] Mike: like you on some level, you actually don't see that much, right, because they're everything's kind of hidden between their legs because they were smashed together.
  • [12:31] Keith: See any Libya at any point we watched.
  • [12:41] Mike: And I think it's like generally it's unusual for me to find like it's more difficult often when there's not a man when there isn't like,
  • [12:54] Mike: yeah, something that I recognize more in the horn scene. When it's just lesbian, it's a little harder for me, but that I can still get it done. Uh, if I was if you if you you know, if you forced me to like, Look, you have to use the lesbian channel, I'd be like, All right,
  • [12:56] Mike: give me a few minutes here,
  • [12:57] Keith: right?
  • [13:05] Keith: Yeah, I feel the same way. I almost never watch exclusively lesbian porn. Sometimes there's aspects of it, you know, you'll see, like, three, some porn, and, you know, the women will
  • [13:07] Keith: to stuff, but
  • [13:09] Keith: I almost never seek this out. I might.
  • [13:18] Keith: I'm noting that I found this compelling. And I'm a report back later with, You know, this might be like a new avenue for me to explore.
  • [13:21] Mike: He's like I my semen want a centimeter further. Go ahead.
  • [13:30] Ally: I'm curious, Keith. What you think about the odor question? Because given right, extreme cleanliness preferences, I would imagine you don't want any odour whatsoever.
  • [13:38] Keith: There's a There's a Goldilocks zone, right? Like I do like the way women smell and taste.
  • [13:48] Keith: Sometimes it's a bit too strong, and I don't know how to quantify that using objective terms, but, you know, I know it when I smell it.
  • [13:50] Keith: Um,
  • [13:51] Keith: and
  • [13:59] Keith: yeah, like, Yeah, like some amount of, like, the scent that women, um, it's, uh, down there is great.
  • [14:11] Keith: And then there's, you know, and then but there's, like, some thin line and, you know, after which it can be not so great. So, yeah, I don't really know. And I don't think it has to do with, like, um,
  • [14:15] Keith: lubrication volume. It's just that, I mean, look,
  • [14:16] Keith: you would
  • [14:22] Keith: maybe be able to describe the weather conditions down there better than I would, but it seems like, uh,
  • [14:26] Keith: yeah, like sometimes things can be a little bit off.
  • [14:32] Keith: Uh, I don't I don't know what causes that.
  • [14:38] Mike: Well, Keith also is able to detect a woman's arousal often at a bar. If he's talking to her. I don't
  • [14:39] Ally: know. I
  • [14:44] Keith: don't know that often, but yeah, I've said in the past that if I have a partner that I know well,
  • [14:48] Keith: I can sometimes smell
  • [14:49] Keith: her.
  • [14:52] Keith: What is the word? Musk. Is that the right word? What's the word her?
  • [14:55] Ally: Her?
  • [15:13] Keith: Yeah, it's great. I can smell her vagina. Uh, secretions? Yeah, even. Yeah, at in a in a crowded place. Um, it doesn't happen often, but it happens. And I'm certain I'm not imagining it, because
  • [15:18] Keith: I've mentioned it before and they've been like, Oh, yeah, and then,
  • [15:20] Keith: Yeah.
  • [15:21] Keith: So I know it's a thing.
  • [15:32] Mike: The thing that Keith doesn't know is that actually, what they do is they go into the bathroom, and then they get some and they put it on their face like perfume. And that's what he's smelling. Totally possible.
  • [15:37] Keith: Not I had not considered this. And that is so horrible. That is awful.
  • [15:38] Keith: No, you can tell.
  • [15:41] Mike: No, I mean, as a man. You can do that with semen to
  • [15:43] Keith: are the nostrils are
  • [15:45] Ally: the nostrils. Like
  • [15:51] Keith: are the nostrils like the ears? Where are they? Visit stereoscopic. Can you tell the direction of smell is coming from?
  • [15:53] Ally: Yes, you can.
  • [15:54] Keith: Okay. Yeah, I think I can. I think I
  • [15:58] Mike: would be so certain. How are you certain of that?
  • [16:02] Ally: I read a paper about this relatively recently. Yeah, that's
  • [16:06] Keith: the thing to be casually reading, but Okay, it's
  • [16:10] Mike: Yeah. I thought that one nostril at a time sort of closed off.
  • [16:21] Ally: No, they did this study because this is better known in animals that, like fish, can navigate via scent plume. And then they were trying to figure out whether humans can and they can, obviously not as well as fish, but
  • [16:25] Ally: yeah, you can tell whether a scent is coming from your left or right.
  • [16:29] Keith: I can definitely doesn't to me. I can definitely smell, depending that
  • [16:32] Ally: I'll send you the favorite. You
  • [16:40] Mike: see, Ali, like if, Like, if there's smoke drifting by like, why would there be a difference? This is Yeah. This is an interesting. Anyway,
  • [16:43] Keith: we don't need to get into this accident, uh,
  • [16:58] Keith: thoughts about this, But I know this conversation will definitely continue affair, but yeah, you can definitely. We agree. You can tell distance, right? Because, like, if you know what? Like the baseline intensity of smelling a rose is, you can tell if you're near a rose or not. You can tell distance. And so,
  • [17:11] Keith: um, yeah, the analogy here is vagina. I can I can tell the distance that I'm smelling from. Uh Okay, let's move on from this video. Do either of you guys have anything else to say about this?
  • [17:14] Keith: No. Okay. Uh, so,
  • [17:15] Keith: uh,
  • [17:29] Keith: I recently received a couple messages from someone on an online dating website, and I told her about the podcast, and she said, Starting episode one now, definitely some fun titles. So good job naming the podcasts, Mike.
  • [17:35] Keith: Um, and then about an hour later, she says, Oh, my, the lack of rim job knowledge has me concerned.
  • [17:38] Keith: I hope you've learned more since episode one,
  • [17:42] Keith: So I don't remember Episode one. That was years ago. Um,
  • [17:45] Keith: presumably we talked about rim jobs. That probably
  • [17:47] Keith: I said I didn't know exactly what it was.
  • [17:55] Keith: I've definitely Yeah. I mean, I know what a rim job is now. I've not ever performed one who received one. And
  • [18:06] Keith: the reason why I bring this up is this is the third time someone has signaled to me that they like having their ass recently having their ass eaten. Recently. We agree that she's signaling that she likes having her ass eaten right.
  • [18:08] Ally: That's a likely interpretation.
  • [18:11] Mike: Or she likes doing it.
  • [18:13] Ally: Okay, at least that she has experience with it.
  • [18:19] Keith: Yeah. Okay. Let's assume for the sake this argument. She's signaling that that's something she's interested in. Uh,
  • [18:32] Keith: I'm pretty sure that's a nonstarter for me, at least in the giving direction. And I'm not really that interested in receiving Am I being too square? Is this like, a new thing that, like lots of people are into?
  • [18:37] Ally: Ali? I am. I have no experience with it, and I am also not
  • [18:39] Ally: into it. That seems like
  • [18:41] Ally: a road to that in a
  • [18:45] Ally: staph infection or something. I mean, it just it
  • [18:53] Ally: It seems like there's a lot of potential to ingest bacteria and not a ton of potential for it to feel better than other activities.
  • [18:53] Ally: Mm
  • [18:58] Mike: hmm. Well, I mean, maybe it's okay. I have some insight into this, but yeah,
  • [19:01] Mike: I mean, I think that, like, uh,
  • [19:06] Mike: I mean, there's a like, a lot of anal stuff relates to taboo.
  • [19:09] Mike: Right? So it's basically like you get horny.
  • [19:11] Mike: Your,
  • [19:15] Mike: um, discussed response declines.
  • [19:17] Mike: You know, it's a little bit like being drunk. Maybe you're drunk, too,
  • [19:34] Mike: and, you know, things that wouldn't have seemed like a good idea before. Start seeming like a good idea. And, you know, and basically it's like, what is the nastiest thing I can do here now. I don't know if actually that happens to women. I'd be interested in that. But it certainly happens to men, right? I mean, like, this is a there's, like, this feeling of like, Oh, you want to be more nasty?
  • [19:35] Mike: Mhm.
  • [19:38] Keith: Yeah, the there
  • [19:39] Keith: the disgust
  • [19:42] Keith: reflexes, like, almost completely suppressed.
  • [19:44] Keith: Um,
  • [19:45] Keith: right, but
  • [19:46] Keith: yeah, but
  • [19:47] Keith: I don't
  • [19:53] Keith: Yeah, I guess. Okay. All right. I guess I cannot suppress it enough to want to taste fecal matter from my partner.
  • [19:57] Keith: That's the shortest way I can state that. Um,
  • [20:05] Mike: sure. But like the but yeah. I mean, I'm just saying that we might be having a different conversation right now if we were all, like, furiously masturbating.
  • [20:06] Mike: Yeah,
  • [20:12] Mike: I wonder, I think all because I mean, I I assume you still are to the video, Keith. Right
  • [20:26] Keith: now, I closed the video so that I could focus on the show. Uh, no. I mean, I know, I know. There's, like, a trope, and I've said I think I've even said it before on the show. But it was a while ago. Yeah, like people would say, like, Oh, she's so hot. I would eat the corn out of the loop, right?
  • [20:27] Mike: Like
  • [20:28] Mike: this notion
  • [20:36] Keith: that I know. I know you love it. So, uh, this notion that you can like your your your disgust,
  • [20:53] Keith: um reflex is suppressed so much that you'll just be absolutely submissive and willing to do, like, you know, consume. Whatever thing the cleaner version of that I heard is somebody said she's so hot, I would eat her booty juice. You know, like when you wear, like, booties to go surfing or something. Lord, uh,
  • [21:04] Keith: that's a little cleaner. It's a little clean already. I would. She's so hot, I would drink her booty juice. That's like a This was set in the context of surfing. So it's not booty
  • [21:06] Mike: juice was not like diarrhea or whatever
  • [21:07] Keith: it was, you know, like
  • [21:09] Ally: the feeling like, but sweater No,
  • [21:14] Keith: no, no, no, no, no. You know, like, that's what they call the like rubber. You know, wet suit
  • [21:17] Keith: shoes you wear. They're called booties. Yeah,
  • [21:18] Mike: that's right. I
  • [21:19] Keith: didn't I didn't tell that. Right, But anyway, you get the
  • [21:21] Mike: idea I
  • [21:33] Mike: I'm interested in I'm interested in the woman's perspective on on the disgust, uh, diminishment like Ali do you find. So I mean, does that is what we're saying makes sense to you that, like when you're
  • [21:42] Mike: depending on level of arousal, like your willingness and really interest, like you have a drive toward doing things that are kind of nastier, or does that not happen to you?
  • [21:50] Ally: To a certain extent, it does. I don't think that ever reaches the point where it would overcome poop being disgusting. Like I think I
  • [21:53] Ally: no matter how aroused. I don't think that I would be into poop.
  • [21:57] Mike: But things like an example of something like how, Yeah, what's the thing that it does make you overcome?
  • [22:11] Ally: So I hear people talking about, like, you know, spitting in someone's mouth or something, or just like saliva in general. I think I understand where you're coming from, Mike that, like when not aroused, you know, maybe I don't want a lot of someone else's saliva
  • [22:16] Ally: on my face or something. And maybe when I am aroused, that sounds better.
  • [22:17] Keith: I know one.
  • [22:22] Keith: Uh, First off, I know what bike thinks about saliva. He can He can barely tolerate it at any point.
  • [22:23] Ally: But okay,
  • [22:32] Keith: so men get this like I think It's called Smeg MMA. It's this, like, accumulation of stuff around the base of their Penis. Now,
  • [22:40] Keith: I'm my circumcision is not the base. The base of the mushroom. What is what is the What is the head of the Penis called again? It's
  • [22:43] Mike: not the head behind its behind the foreskin.
  • [22:44] Ally: Yeah,
  • [22:56] Keith: right. So I have a very tight circumcision, so I don't get this magma. Um, but I think most men have at least some non zero amount. So, like when you start blowing him, you know, your
  • [23:01] Keith: cleaning that off. And that seems like something starting. Yeah,
  • [23:21] Keith: like women tolerate that or seem to like lots of women claim to, like, blow jobs. As you guys know, I think that most women who report they like blowjobs actually don't. But for the ones that actually do, um, the ones that literally do. Uh yeah. That's like something that they seem to suppress. Like, obviously, you're not okay. Maybe Maybe I'm wrong. Would you be interested in
  • [23:24] Keith: How do I even create a situation where
  • [23:27] Keith: you have to consume magma? But you're not aroused.
  • [23:40] Ally: So I've only been with two uncircumcised men ever. And both of those were like one night stand ish sort of things like it was not a long term thing. So I don't have a lot of experience. You blow them that?
  • [23:40] Ally: Yeah,
  • [23:44] Ally: one. I did. And I do not remember there being any.
  • [23:48] Keith: Did he shower beforehand? Or maybe who knows?
  • [24:00] Ally: He didn't shower beforehand. But I also don't remember seeing any of tasting anything out of the ordinary. And for a circumcised guy, I don't know where that would accumulate. Like there's no fold.
  • [24:01] Keith: There
  • [24:05] Keith: can be, like, maybe you can describe this better than I.
  • [24:09] Mike: Well, I mean, it's just a matter of like they, you know, they
  • [24:12] Mike: they have to choose the place to make the cut right, and so different.
  • [24:22] Mike: Yeah. I mean, different guys wind up with different amounts of, uh, coverage or whatever amount amount of foreskin remaining. And so depending on that, you could have some
  • [24:26] Mike: space there. But But, Keith What? I wanted to bring up, like I mean,
  • [24:27] Mike: don't Okay,
  • [24:31] Mike: I think you're making a mistake here by thinking that women
  • [24:35] Mike: No, no. The women, uh, would, uh,
  • [24:57] Mike: like like or be okay with there being stuff like that, this magnetic whatever, and and The reason why is that it's happening at the beginning of the of the encounter is when you're gonna encounter that stuff. And so, like, I actually think like, you see on this ex like these kind of hygiene issues like Come up and I think that, like, it's the difference here with like, the rimming
  • [25:01] Mike: thing is that, like the rimming is going to be like when you're
  • [25:10] Mike: pretty far into the act, whereas probably the discovery of magma will be sort of at the beginning of the act. And so, like, I don't think I don't really think there's a situation where, like that's
  • [25:12] Mike: in any way going to be welcome.
  • [25:21] Mike: Um, it's Yeah, okay, I could I could give you like the flip side, which is that like, on the other hand, like I think that most women
  • [25:23] Mike: don't really have any problem with switching from
  • [25:38] Mike: P. I V to giving oral to the man where there is stuff on there, but it's like they've already kind of in the middle a bit, Um, it's also their own secretions, but I just think like my impression is that because you're sort of later in the process,
  • [25:41] Mike: like your disgust feeling is diminished. Like I feel
  • [25:46] Keith: like arousal for me, anyway, is more binary like I'm not sure if there's some
  • [25:52] Keith: function where it grows steadily over time, and then it peaks at a point where I'm okay with
  • [25:55] Keith: things that I wouldn't be, you know, moments or
  • [26:12] Mike: minutes can't be right. You can't. That can't be right. Like if you're okay. So you're saying that you're saying that just so you you let's say you watch that wonderful tripping video we just watched and it gets you an erection. At that moment, you are the same level aroused as you are.
  • [26:17] Mike: Stay with your when you're within 30 seconds of ejaculating in a new partner's vagina.
  • [26:24] Keith: Okay? It can't be all right. You're setting up arguing by extremes here. I appreciate that. Uh,
  • [26:25] Keith: no, but
  • [26:30] Mike: I know that I know that we are doing the podcast does arouse you. I just felt like I could get to that level.
  • [26:34] Keith: Right, Right, right. Yeah, I
  • [26:37] Keith: I feel like
  • [26:38] Keith: Mm.
  • [26:47] Keith: Okay. There are degrees of arousal. Okay. Alright, fine. There are degrees of arousal, but like most of it,
  • [26:50] Keith: Yeah, like I feel like Okay, let's say it's on a scale of 100. I feel like
  • [26:58] Keith: when I'm aroused, I'm like an 85 or higher and like sure, like during, like, really great experiences, I can get to a 97.
  • [27:05] Keith: But the difference between 85 97 doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of things that fit into that zone where I'm willing to do
  • [27:10] Keith: that. I'm not at an 85 does that? I feel like that was a little bit technical, but this
  • [27:17] Ally: is because it implies that you're reserving 3% points for some feature, like the hardest I've ever gotten is a 90
  • [27:22] Keith: seven. I don't know what the spectrum is. I'm certain I haven't seen the top. But,
  • [27:28] Keith: you know, maybe I think I've had some very lovely sexual experiences, so, you know.
  • [27:42] Keith: Yeah, but I'm saying some say it's like when you're reviewing like, uh, in the Olympics, when they review, like figure skating or gymnastics, they always try to leave. If they know that, like, you know, the great person hasn't gone yet. They try to save some room.
  • [27:43] Keith: Yeah,
  • [27:44] Mike: yeah,
  • [27:54] Mike: yeah. I just think Keith there that if you were in the aforementioned whatever you wanna call it 97 percentile or whatever. 97 out of 100
  • [27:57] Mike: around Something sort of unusual happened.
  • [28:01] Mike: Yeah, something that Yeah. Fine. And something sort of unusual happened in that situation. Like,
  • [28:07] Mike: um, I'm not sure exactly what the unusual thing is, but let's say let's say, um
  • [28:10] Mike: let's say that your partner has a
  • [28:13] Mike: pretty realistic male dildo.
  • [28:18] Mike: And when you're really hyper row, she wants you to put it on in your mouth and suck it.
  • [28:24] Mike: I think you'd be more likely to do it right at that moment. Then I wish you had an encounter.
  • [28:28] Keith: Yeah. I wish you hadn't chose that specific example, because
  • [28:29] Mike: you're
  • [28:38] Keith: really challenging me to say yes to a thing, but, like, I don't want to. Uh, but well done. Well done. Uh, yeah. I mean, I think you're right.
  • [28:39] Keith: Yeah, there's some.
  • [28:48] Keith: There are some moments during which I am probably particularly vulnerable to something that in other boats would be like. Absolutely not. Yeah, I think you're right.
  • [28:55] Mike: Yeah. I mean, really where I wanted to go with that. Is that like, I think that Okay, I think there's a substantial fraction of men
  • [28:56] Mike: who,
  • [28:57] Mike: uh,
  • [29:03] Mike: yeah, if at that moment, like a dude showed up with a dick, would put the dick in their mouth. That's what I actually think. I feel
  • [29:09] Keith: like. I feel like I hope that would be a bridge too far for me. But, you know, you never know for sure, but I think
  • [29:14] Mike: in that situation you can get to that level of arousal. Yeah, I think the counterpoint
  • [29:25] Ally: from a previous episode is that if the woman has, like, a sesame seed, seed sized piece of toilet paper on her labia, that will completely ruin the entire experience.
  • [29:26] Mike: Because that's at the beginning. Ali
  • [29:28] Ally: was at the beginning. It was at the beginning.
  • [29:40] Mike: Yeah, because by the time he's by the time he's been thrusting in and out for how you know, the two minutes it takes him to get to the Level 97. No. Whatever money he will have destroyed that toilet paper.
  • [29:41] Mike: Yeah,
  • [29:58] Keith: by the way, I was revisiting that that toilet paper story like we shouldn't assume our listeners know the entire canon of light of my sex life. Um, yeah, I had a partner once. She came back from the restroom and there was some toilet paper on her labia, and it was like a huge trough, and I
  • [30:11] Keith: I don't remember how I know opt out of there. But I somehow did. Uh I have since encountered this again, and I'm more I think in my in my old age, I'm more forgiving of such
  • [30:12] Keith: such issues, but
  • [30:14] Keith: yeah,
  • [30:25] Keith: there, that is that. That is a good point. Like there are definitely, like, levels to my arousal and like, things I will tolerate and like, I may be unreasonable about not tolerating some things and tolerating others, but yeah, I think there is.
  • [30:31] Keith: Okay. I've been convinced my view has been changed their creations. I will hold on. Let me say one more thing.
  • [30:32] Keith: I do think
  • [30:37] Keith: it's more I don't know if it's more like time in a single encounter, but it's like
  • [30:40] Keith: how excited I am about that specific partner.
  • [30:42] Keith: So,
  • [30:43] Mike: yeah.
  • [30:44] Keith: Hey, things are
  • [30:48] Mike: related to those. Things are already I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Keith,
  • [30:53] Mike: I'm pretty sure that if you were in an M f F threesome,
  • [30:56] Mike: let's see, the second woman showed up in the middle. I don't know.
  • [30:59] Mike: Yeah, I think you would, Rimmer.
  • [31:00] Mike: I think he would.
  • [31:07] Mike: I think you would. Because you just be like like, yeah, if that was the price to pay and and it wouldn't even you wouldn't even think of it as a price to pay. You just be like, this is so great
  • [31:13] Mike: that you would just do not Whatever. Yes, I think we made a good point. You wouldn't eat her poop.
  • [31:18] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's too far. But yeah, I would. I mean, as long as, like, you know, you don't
  • [31:19] Keith: you know,
  • [31:22] Keith: peel back, peel apart the crack. I'm like,
  • [31:25] Keith: I mean, there's some requisite level of cleanliness, but
  • [31:36] Mike: yeah, I would. So here. So what we have here, Keith, is with this with this woman who's, um this lovely young lady who's contacted you and expressed an interest. All you need to do is
  • [31:45] Mike: you have a riposte. Here. Your post is just like, Hey, uh, you know what I like that one blood hole is too. But I
  • [31:48] Keith: like having six of your friends. Uh,
  • [31:54] Keith: yeah. Okay. Great. Great. Great. Great. Yeah. Thanks for helping me figure out how to respond to her.
  • [31:55] Keith: Um,
  • [32:01] Mike: yeah, Ali, there's no situation where you would do this. to a man. Is that is that where we're at?
  • [32:04] Ally: I'm not going to say no situation, but
  • [32:11] Ally: there would always be more appealing things to do.
  • [32:15] Keith: Yeah, it's, like literally anything. Basically. So
  • [32:22] Ally: I have to imagine a situation where the van is like the one thing the only thing that I enjoy is having you talking my butthole, at which point I'm like, why am I
  • [32:28] Mike: here? So this leads in nicely to that topic with the pegging.
  • [32:28] Mike: Mhm.
  • [32:35] Mike: Yeah, and I'd like to hear alleys take on pegging. I'm actually kind of curious. I'd like to hear a woman's take on that. Okay.
  • [32:37] Ally: All right. Do you want to read the thing? And
  • [32:40] Keith: then, yeah, I'll read it.
  • [32:44] Keith: Uh, let's see here. So this is a little bit lengthy, but
  • [33:01] Keith: I think it's worth it, and I think I think we need to do the full reading to get the proper context. This person says, I think I finally understood why guys care about the numbers so much. My boyfriend and I are pretty open with each other. We were friends before we got together, and I knew he's had many girlfriends in the past. Both casual and serious, but I never paid that much. Thought.
  • [33:20] Keith: We were talking about pegging the other day just academically. It's not really my thing, but he told me that if I ever get curious, we can try it. His willingness and the way he said it got me curious. So I asked him if it's something he wants to do or if it's something he's done before. He told me that, yes, he had done it before and enjoyed it, but he doesn't really want to do it with me because he knows I probably won't be into it that much,
  • [33:33] Keith: He said. He mentioned it just so I know it could be a possibility. I didn't know that about him. I couldn't even imagine it. To be honest, it caught me so much by surprise that I started asking question after question with who? How many times, why? Who asked for it?
  • [33:37] Keith: Do you do more other submissive stuff? How many women have you subbed for?
  • [33:47] Keith: The question just kept coming out with me. Unable to stop myself, I was feeling cold sweats running down my spine all the time. My heart was sinking more and more with the chancellor, But I couldn't stop. I wanted no, no. I needed to know.
  • [33:55] Keith: I had never felt that way before. So possessive, so angry, so disappointed, so, so surprised or confused. I can't really explain it.
  • [34:05] Keith: Maybe feel super weird that my boyfriend had subbed for other women. Pegging wasn't the only thing on the list. I couldn't wrap my mind around it. It was such an uncomfortable thought for some reason. And I'd be lying if I said it didn't affect me,
  • [34:19] Keith: especially since it was with more than one woman. I could make my peace with it easier if it's if it's something he got curious about and try just once. But no, he let multiple women do that to him. Obviously, I'm not saying anything yet. It's not. It's not his problem to deal with. It's just in my head. I know,
  • [34:27] Keith: I know. I wouldn't appreciate it if he flat out told me that my past made him uncomfortable. So the least I can do is give it some time and see if I could deal with those feelings myself.
  • [34:33] Keith: Just thought I'd share in case other people have gone through something similar. So Mike, you want to give us your theory
  • [34:34] Keith: here.
  • [34:35] Mike: Yeah,
  • [34:52] Mike: well, there's so I mean, I'd like to talk about the topic of pegging generally because we've had it on our list for a while to get sort of a female take on that. And, uh, but separately. So why don't we actually, don't we do that first, and then we can talk about the sort of emotional context here, too. Okay. So, Ali, tell us what you hold on. You're familiar with pegging. I take it, you know? Well, I
  • [34:53] Ally: haven't,
  • [35:03] Ally: so I haven't done it in the sense that I think pegging is like wearing wearing a dildo, wearing a strap on in the position that a Pena's would be And like getting behind the guy
  • [35:08] Mike: behaving well, you can also you don't have to be behind him. He can. Um I mean, I've seen porn's where
  • [35:09] Ally: people's is
  • [35:14] Mike: like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that you can do that too. That's that'll be a possible position.
  • [35:23] Ally: So I haven't done that. I would be interested in doing that. I have done the like, put a finger in his but while you're having sex or something, um,
  • [35:24] Mike: upon
  • [35:32] Ally: best Yeah, I don't think it's begging. Um, I think I would enjoy pegging. I think that would be fun. I just haven't
  • [35:34] Ally: been with a guy who
  • [35:36] Ally: has wanted that.
  • [35:47] Keith: Okay, we got a double click here. So why would you enjoy it? Is there any physical stimulation to yourself? I think the answer is no ish. What aspect of it makes it enjoyable?
  • [35:53] Ally: Uh, yeah. I think you're right. There's probably usually no physical sensation. There are double ended dildos. So I guess I could.
  • [35:57] Keith: Okay, Sure. And if that's what you're talking about, please clarify. But if
  • [36:03] Ally: not fun to know I was talking, I think I would enjoy even the part where it's a
  • [36:10] Ally: single ended directional. A uni directional. Yeah. I think I would enjoy this
  • [36:11] Ally: for
  • [36:16] Ally: something about I think the guy submitting to me
  • [36:18] Ally: feels, you know,
  • [36:19] Ally: powerful or
  • [36:21] Ally: like Like he trusts me.
  • [36:26] Keith: It doesn't feel emasculating to your partner.
  • [36:30] Ally: It might a little suspect. That's why most guys I've been with don't want to do it
  • [36:42] Keith: like Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean it that way. I'm sure for most people or for many people, I don't know what the percentages are for many men. They would feel emasculated by being tagged, for example, myself. But
  • [36:43] Keith: would
  • [36:52] Keith: you wouldn't mind that you're sort of dominating him. That would make him less attractive to you.
  • [36:55] Ally: Mm.
  • [36:59] Ally: I think it's something where
  • [37:02] Ally: Well, it might. Yeah, it might a little bit,
  • [37:05] Keith: but there's to encounter enough.
  • [37:14] Ally: Well, it would open up the possibilities of things we could do during sex. Like, I guess I'm imagining doing this with, like, a long term partner where
  • [37:22] Ally: I already have had the opportunity to feel superior to him in some way. Like it's not perfect anymore. So
  • [37:26] Ally: and so far as this could be something that he also enjoys, I think.
  • [37:36] Mike: Well, let me let me tell the little story, Uh, that comes up on Reddit Sometimes that I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast too much. Not sure if we have you, but, uh,
  • [37:40] Mike: yeah, Keith and I have discussed this a number of times. So, um,
  • [37:43] Mike: a somewhat common story that you see
  • [37:46] Mike: on the sex subreddit is
  • [37:47] Mike: a
  • [37:59] Mike: unclear who It doesn't matter really, who initiates this? But basically, a couple agrees to do an MMF threesome. Maybe it's supposed to be an M. F M threesome were like It's just the one in interacting with the men.
  • [38:17] Mike: But either way, either way, at some point, no, no, But it could actually be that it was planned to be an MMF and that the woman was sort of all for it. She was like, This will be interesting. This will be fun. And then the woman, basically what I imagine happening. I've never been in this situation. I've seen it. But what I imagine happening is the woman like
  • [38:18] Mike: at some point the
  • [38:24] Mike: her boyfriend starts receiving anal from the other guy.
  • [38:31] Mike: And I just imagine this like the woman just had to get this look of terror in her eyes and she realizes, like, this is totally changed.
  • [38:37] Mike: Wait the way we perceive she's just watching in horror. This thing happened that she's just like, Oh my God, Now I
  • [38:42] Mike: I don't see this man the same way I did before. And so then subsequently, like
  • [38:54] Mike: this is the way the story ends like it's a little different each time. But generally the woman's behavior becomes kind of erratic, and the guy has difficulty understanding. But in each case, Keith and I have like, agreed, know what's going on? Is she like,
  • [38:56] Mike: Yeah, basically, she's
  • [39:04] Mike: There's a image she had in her mind of what a man is and like, You're not that anymore. Like you basically destroyed, like the sort of protector, the guy with the
  • [39:13] Mike: sword and the shield that's going to fight for you. Like now she's seen you basically let a guy do that to him. Let's do that to him. Yeah, I
  • [39:17] Ally: disagree with my might be out of the ordinary here, but
  • [39:25] Ally: I don't feel any jealousy toward my male partner doing things with other men. I pretty much don't even consider that cheating like I only
  • [39:30] Ally: it would be jealous about my partner doing things with other women. I think they're just completely different.
  • [39:43] Mike: It's not jealousy. It's that he's He's, like, basically adopted a submissive role that makes it so that you don't like you no longer are able to see him as like the father of your Children or the man like that. You see the point?
  • [39:45] Ally: Yeah, I think
  • [39:51] Ally: I think in almost all relationships they start out where you think like this guy is great and like,
  • [39:59] Ally: you know, I could never see him in that role. And then, you know, things happen. He realized, like, Yeah, he's not perfect. Like I'm better than him in some way. So I think that it, you know,
  • [40:01] Keith: it, uh,
  • [40:09] Mike: slash every way, Uh, you hang on. But you see already that she's she has subconsciously
  • [40:13] Mike: placed having the guy do this as him not being as good,
  • [40:16] Mike: right? She switched it. She switched the conversation from
  • [40:24] Mike: Oh, he's done this thing. That's not masculine, too. I'm better than him in certain ways, and that makes him worse. You see that, right? It already happened.
  • [40:30] Ally: Removes his ability to remove my ability to see him as as dominant in the same way, I guess,
  • [40:32] Keith: right? That's right.
  • [40:32] Keith: I
  • [40:37] Mike: mean, I don't think these, by the way, in each of these cases, the woman was like,
  • [40:47] Mike: various things happen, but like nobody thought this was going to happen going in right. It's like it's like this surprising. This is surprising thing. Serendipity. Well, the opposite of serendipitous thing that happens in the woman's brain
  • [40:49] Mike: anyway.
  • [40:57] Ally: Yeah, I mean, do you think she would not have that reaction if she sees her partner like taking the active role in anal sex with a man like,
  • [41:04] Keith: Yes, I know, Mike Thanks, and I'm starting to come around to his point of view. But
  • [41:09] Keith: let me explain what Mike thinks and it's that
  • [41:19] Keith: yes, the directionality is important versus dominating versus submitting matters. So it's not that it's like two men having sex. It's that
  • [41:24] Keith: one of them is being submissive to the other. And the submissive one,
  • [41:28] Keith: uh, in the eyes of a later female partner
  • [41:36] Keith: is less is less dominant and, you know, some people don't care about that. But I think a lot of women do prefer
  • [41:37] Keith: the sort of standard
  • [41:40] Keith: male, male, dominant female submissive
  • [41:43] Keith: sexual dynamic.
  • [41:56] Mike: And that's there's another. It's related, intertwined element here that, uh, that you that relates to your some of the experiences you've told me about, which is basically like you have very frequently said that like there's a
  • [42:00] Mike: kind of phase change that happens in your relationship was kind of obvious after you
  • [42:06] Mike: have penetrative sex with the woman and it's really on the woman's side, like she basically
  • [42:07] Mike: her
  • [42:19] Mike: behavior towards you shifts in some way, but you characterize it, you can characterize it like falling in love or whatever, like there's something that changes. And like, Um, I've read a number of numerous threads where people talk about this. And I think it's sort of similar that, like
  • [42:24] Mike: it's related that, like there's a significant difference between
  • [42:28] Mike: all the other things you can do and being penetrated
  • [42:30] Mike: and basically what somebody?
  • [42:35] Mike: Well, no, no, no, just no. Well, in this case, we're talking about pegging
  • [42:56] Mike: right and so or whatever or mmf situations. But the point is that, like it puts you in a position where, like, there's a a different, like emotional field that's that occurs when, like it's like it's like a very different, like when you first have sex with a woman. Your experience is very different from hers is the point. I don't I'd be interested in how his take on this, but like there's a significant emotional difference.
  • [42:57] Mike: And
  • [43:16] Mike: that explains both why the woman would become more attached like her. The velocity of the attachment gets a lot faster than than they experienced the man has, and also why you would have weird sort of jealousy things around finding out that a guy had been pegged by other women
  • [43:20] Mike: like that some of the mentioned subreddit and also
  • [43:21] Mike: the,
  • [43:33] Mike: uh, woman watching her boyfriend have receptive gay anal sex with another guy. It's like all of these cases, like the common thread, is like, there's like, the receiving penetration is, like,
  • [43:37] Mike: way more emotionally charged than giving penetration.
  • [43:47] Ally: Okay, I'll agree with you. I mean, I agree with you your theory in the sense that, like having knowing that your boyfriend has done something where he is submissive with another woman
  • [43:49] Ally: would make me jealous.
  • [43:52] Ally: Uh, but I don't think that the submissiveness is the
  • [43:56] Ally: key part, necessarily with another man.
  • [44:00] Keith: What's the key part? That he might be gay?
  • [44:02] Keith: Um,
  • [44:04] Ally: uh huh.
  • [44:08] Keith: Like that could be That could be an issue,
  • [44:12] Ally: right? I guess. Yeah, it would be something.
  • [44:14] Keith: Um,
  • [44:21] Ally: yeah, I think it's too big of a deal. I don't think that I would see him that differently. Knowing that he had had anal sex with a man
  • [44:25] Keith: bisexual, hypothetically, bisexual partner versus a
  • [44:27] Keith: only heterosexual partner.
  • [44:28] Keith: Mhm
  • [44:34] Keith: like, obviously if he's gay and he's like suppressing that and like pretending to be into women, that's the problem.
  • [44:38] Keith: Yeah. The situation we're constructing here is yeah, he's
  • [44:40] Mike: he likes both.
  • [44:45] Mike: Ali does. Does what? What does what I'm saying about the
  • [44:53] Mike: probably sort of from the man's eye view of the world thing. But the notion that
  • [44:57] Mike: the experience like that for you as a woman
  • [45:06] Mike: the first time you have penetrative sex with a man like much more changes about your relationship than it does for the man does that make sense to you or your like That's total hogwash. Makes no sense to me.
  • [45:12] Keith: Hold on before Ellie answers, Let me let me copy up with this. I think most women would say,
  • [45:16] Keith: like I don't I don't know if women are necessarily consciously aware of
  • [45:18] Keith: what happens for them
  • [45:20] Keith: after they have an initial section
  • [45:24] Mike: security interests. Keith. I mean, I know I know that they're not, and I also like, Look, I put like a
  • [45:37] Mike: a score of, like maybe 50 50. On what Ali is saying about her belief about what would happen if she had a partner of the man and the reason why The reason why I say that 15. Well, because I don't
  • [45:44] Mike: different people do have different reactions, but I don't say it to denigrate you, but just say like we've read a lot of posts by by, like, people who were like, shocked.
  • [45:55] Mike: It was like they were with a partner was totally like, Oh, it'll mmf is going to be great And then like and then it destroys their relationship and they're shocked by that Like they didn't expect that to happen. But anyway, with
  • [45:55] Ally: all that disappointed in
  • [46:03] Keith: themselves, you know, they're posting on like a sex positive subreddit. You know they're there, but they're like, surprised that they found this thing so
  • [46:05] Keith: repulsive, so much of a turn off.
  • [46:15] Ally: That's very fair. I don't Yeah, I don't have any way of knowing how to react in terms of well, in terms of the do, I think that having penetrative sex with someone changes
  • [46:18] Ally: our relationship. I mean, I
  • [46:20] Mike: more for you than for him.
  • [46:31] Ally: I think it really depends how much I like the guy, like if I if I'm not that into the guy, and this is just obviously like a casual kind of thing or like I'm
  • [46:37] Ally: trying to decide whether I like him, I don't think it changes that much if I'm really into him and I've been
  • [46:42] Ally: obsessively like waiting for this point, then? Yeah, I could see that
  • [46:43] Ally: changing
  • [46:44] Ally: things.
  • [46:52] Mike: Yeah, I think it's going to be more so You're basically differentiating between, like, sort of a drunken one night stand and like something where you've been dating for a while and stuff like that.
  • [46:54] Mike: Yeah, I think that's Yeah.
  • [47:08] Mike: Um, maybe not drunken. Maybe a sober one night stand, but, uh, sure. But I mean, but the key question Okay, let's say it's the situation where there's dating, and it's not the one night stand situation, because I think that's a fair point.
  • [47:12] Mike: Um, do you think that more changes for you than for the man
  • [47:22] Mike: in that situation? Like, do you think your attachment goes up way more than his? I obviously think it does. For most women, I think, also thinks it does.
  • [47:24] Keith: I
  • [47:26] Keith: don't think it does.
  • [47:26] Keith: I don't
  • [47:27] Ally: know. I
  • [47:29] Ally: you don't think I know.
  • [47:31] Keith: I know it does.
  • [47:34] Keith: Oh,
  • [47:38] Ally: I don't know if I would characterize it as attachment. I would say, I guess my you know,
  • [47:44] Ally: my interpretation of his interest level goes up like my expectation that we might
  • [47:49] Ally: have sex more than once. Now you know that we might have sex again like that
  • [47:51] Ally: goes way up. Like
  • [48:03] Mike: what? About like your expectation of like, now you're in a relationship or various like, you know, I'll give you an example. So a thing that that that
  • [48:11] Mike: happens with people who you frequent the dating market place is that there's this implicit assumption of monogamy
  • [48:13] Mike: where,
  • [48:31] Mike: yeah, I mean people. Yeah, there's an assumption of monogamy. Uh, but it's not always explicitly said. I mean, you could, of course, have a conversation where you say, you know, are we now monogamous? And maybe at some point in relationship, you will. But there's an assumption baked in there. Uh, and I think that assumption kind of takes hold after the first sexual act
  • [48:44] Mike: in the woman's brain. But I think in many cases, for men it does not. So I think there's like an asymmetry that occurs there like so. So I would I would wonder that about for you, Like, if you don't you think that you're much more likely in your mind to
  • [48:53] Mike: view the relationship as sort of monogamous once for you at least once, meaning you're not going to pursue other sexual relationships with men once you've had penetrative sex with him.
  • [48:57] Ally: Well, it really depends how good the sex is, but
  • [48:58] Mike: yeah, you're like,
  • [49:02] Ally: Yeah, yeah, that assumption is much more likely.
  • [49:08] Mike: And you'd be surprised if you found out he was having sex with, like, five other women, right?
  • [49:09] Keith: Yeah.
  • [49:10] Keith: It depends on
  • [49:21] Ally: it Depends a lot on his behavior. What else I know about him. If I usually ask people if they are seeing, you know, other people. Um
  • [49:29] Ally: so if he has said no, and then we have sex for the first time and then I find out that he's actually having sex with five other people, then? Yeah, that would be surprised.
  • [49:30] Ally: Um,
  • [49:32] Keith: Mike's trying to
  • [49:50] Keith: backdoor the notion of, like something. Something with women changes after a sexual encounter in a way that makes them more attached to the man. And for men, something changes as well, but it's like the magnitude is less.
  • [49:52] Keith: Um,
  • [49:55] Mike: but if you get picked as a man, I suspect it's more like a woman,
  • [49:57] Mike: right?
  • [50:12] Ally: I think probably what changes is that a lot of women assume that men don't have that many opportunities to have sex, and that once they find one person who will have sex with them. They're like, Bam, that's done like here is my sex outlet and they're not looking for others. So maybe that's where the assumption of monogamy,
  • [50:18] Mike: that's a crazy assumption that women that's wrong
  • [50:22] Keith: depends what kind of partners there
  • [50:25] Keith: meeting. But yeah,
  • [50:28] Mike: well, I mean, just the part about or it's like
  • [50:41] Mike: the part about it. Okay? The part about it where it's like, Oh, they might not have access to other partners. Okay, fine. That that I'm not gonna argue with It. Depends on the guy, but the part where it's like, Oh, this is my outlet. And like, I'm going to turn down other opportunities. That's
  • [50:44] Mike: that doesn't comport with reality.
  • [50:47] Mike: Like, I think I think that almost I think that
  • [50:51] Mike: I think that one could construct a situation where almost any man
  • [50:52] Mike: would
  • [50:54] Mike: have sex with the woman.
  • [51:08] Mike: Almost almost any man like, it's like there are men who would just be like, absolutely not. I'm not gonna do this, But you can. And you can say, Oh, well, it could be a situation where, you know, your wife could find out or blah, blah, blah, But I'm saying you could construct a situation where, like, you know, you construct a situation where none of that stuff can happen. The guy I'm like, All right.
  • [51:10] Mike: I'm gonna do it.
  • [51:12] Ally: Sure. Yeah.
  • [51:20] Mike: Mm. The notion of the sole outlet theory is not, in my opinion, viable.
  • [51:22] Mike: Mhm.
  • [51:24] Keith: Okay.
  • [51:25] Keith: Do we want to talk about
  • [51:29] Keith: the emotional reaction to finding out a partner is packed anymore?
  • [51:30] Keith: Yeah.
  • [51:31] Mike: No, I think that's good.
  • [51:32] Mike: Okay.
  • [51:38] Keith: I think we have time for one more topic here. I wanted to
  • [51:43] Keith: hold on trying to find it on my spreadsheet here. So this person posted about this weird sex dream,
  • [51:45] Keith: and
  • [51:49] Keith: I don't know what it means, but it's kind of funny to read,
  • [51:50] Keith: and
  • [51:57] Keith: maybe we can analyze it for this person. So do I tell my boyfriend about the bizarre dream I had about him and his Penis last night?
  • [52:02] Keith: I had a dream last night that my boyfriend and I were hooking up on a big couch, and at some point his Penis fell off
  • [52:09] Keith: and my cat picked it up in his mouth and started running around with it. He apparently didn't notice. So I somehow secretly chased the cat to get the Penis back.
  • [52:15] Keith: Jump forward and now he's holding his detached Penis with a condom on the base where it was detached,
  • [52:34] Keith: which he's stroking to make it hard. Where in my dining room and my mom is giving him advice, I'm going to the hospital, and that should be no worries to reattach. My brother is complimenting him on a stick. Everyone is very calm. I struggle with excess honesty, but I keep this one to myself, right? Is there a standard trope like So I think
  • [52:39] Keith: like if your teeth fallout, that's like a dream that a lot of people have.
  • [52:42] Ally: Yeah, that's like supposed to be anxiety, I think
  • [52:47] Keith: is a Penis falling off or a partner's Penis falling off like a thing.
  • [52:49] Keith: I've never had a dream like that.
  • [52:49] Keith: Fortunately,
  • [53:03] Ally: I haven't either. It seems pretty straightforwardly like an emasculation kind of dream, particularly because your mom and your brother are also like giving him advice on his dick like, yeah, I think to the point where you're involving your mom and brother and it's
  • [53:05] Keith: well, hold on.
  • [53:15] Keith: For starters, the mom says it should be no worries to reattach, and she she is very clear to say everyone's calm. So there's not a it's not a panic about it. And also,
  • [53:18] Keith: didn't she say in my dining room on the basis detached.
  • [53:22] Keith: Oh, and my brother is complimenting him on on his dick.
  • [53:30] Ally: Yeah. I mean, I think those are both kind of emasculating, like your brother's company. Well, he's naked. Your whole family.
  • [53:34] Keith: Yeah, but it's not shaming the detached Penis.
  • [53:40] Mike: And also, he's stroking it to get it hard in front of your mom and brother.
  • [53:41] Mike: I'll tell you the thing
  • [53:43] Keith: that really a family aspect here. OK?
  • [53:57] Mike: Okay, go ahead. I think I read this last night. So I remember this one. I knew what it was going to be when you started to bring it up. Yeah, and the thing that the thing that actually caught my eye was, um there was something about
  • [54:04] Mike: there was something. Yeah, for me, Like the thing that psychologically caught my eye was something about like how the woman
  • [54:14] Mike: was viewing the man's Penis separately from the rest of his body. Like like it's like that. She viewed it as like, this separate entity, which was interesting to me because I think that
  • [54:20] Mike: I think that men do that two women a lot like, in other words, when men think of like women will just it's like
  • [54:22] Mike: men love to like,
  • [54:27] Mike: obviously sort of mentally dissect various elements of women's bodies like That's something that men
  • [54:30] Mike: you know. You can just sit around in a public place and
  • [54:33] Mike: and do, whereas for the women like when I've talked to women about
  • [54:38] Mike: stuff like that for them, it's always it's just part of my body. It's like, Not
  • [54:47] Mike: like I don't think of my breasts or my vagina or my but as like these separate entities that are like, detachable like Legos, like It's just my body,
  • [54:49] Mike: Whereas for a guy like it's
  • [54:58] Mike: you know, honestly, men, I think, really do almost think of them like Legos that are detachable, oddly like it's like some weird thing about how we conceptualize the world and like
  • [55:01] Mike: So, yeah, I thought it was. It was interesting to me that, like
  • [55:11] Mike: it gave me that emotion that I imagine women have when men sort of deconstruct their bodies like I was like, Oh, that's weird, like she's viewing his Penis is like this separate entity because I always
  • [55:13] Mike: it's like if you ask a woman like
  • [55:25] Mike: and I've had the misfortune in my youth of asking a woman this. I now know it's a stupid thing to ask, but, like, what do you like about my cock? And I remember specifically the answer. Did you get any good answer she gave?
  • [55:32] Mike: The answer she gave was that it's attached to you. Okay, so like that. But that's like the standard female answer. Well, that's the story you want to
  • [55:37] Keith: hear you want to hear about. It's huge. You know? I like the veins and the shape.
  • [55:41] Ally: And yeah, I think she could have been more creative there. There's a
  • [55:42] Mike: great good for you, Ali.
  • [55:46] Ally: There's a great song called Detachable Penis, which maybe this
  • [55:48] Ally: poster had heard before
  • [55:49] Ally: having this dream.
  • [55:52] Keith: Remember that song from, like, the nineties or something, right?
  • [56:00] Mike: Ali Ali. If somebody asked you what you liked about their cock, you would actually, like, try to complement it on its shape size?
  • [56:05] Mike: Yeah, you wouldn't say something like it, because it's because I just think that I've seen,
  • [56:06] Mike: um
  • [56:11] Mike: as the standard female answer is because of the guy like they don't care about the Penis,
  • [56:14] Mike: But you're saying you sort of do like you actually view the Penis, like, separately.
  • [56:16] Ally: Oh, yeah,
  • [56:25] Ally: Well, because it's attached to you is the most milk toast, Anthony. That's like, if somebody is, like, what do you like about my feet or something? I don't know.
  • [56:26] Ally: Mm.
  • [56:28] Keith: I think Ali is a bit more
  • [56:32] Keith: aware that, like, if a man asks her that he's not asking for an emotional
  • [56:37] Keith: connection in that moment, he's feeling insecure about his Penis. And he wants to have,
  • [56:44] Keith: you know he wants. Yeah, he wants. He wants a positive description of the actual organ. Not
  • [56:52] Keith: that she really likes how he takes him out to dinner, right. Like that's not. But I'm just saying, like this this this, uh, this this young lady
  • [57:01] Keith: might have thought that she was I mean, I don't know why she would think this if she knew you at all, but she might have thought that you wanted to hear that she liked you.
  • [57:14] Mike: I know. Yeah, it was It was like the context was definitely, like, sort of a dating context. So she was. And I know she was also being honest, like this is like the I just don't think that like, uh,
  • [57:23] Mike: I think it's unusual. The the the feeling that Ali's expressing of, actually like thinking about his Penis sort of separately like that, I think is unusual. That's I mean, look, this goes into, like, why women don't like dick pics,
  • [57:25] Mike: because it's just not like,
  • [57:26] Mike: right, Ali. You don't like dick pics, right?
  • [57:31] Ally: Oh, no, I do. I've never received one. Unsolicited is the thing.
  • [57:34] Mike: Uh, you're about to,
  • [57:39] Ally: uh, get my phone out here.
  • [57:41] Keith: We'll remedy that
  • [57:45] Ally: right now. I like the way that penises look. I think
  • [57:49] Ally: aesthetic aspects that can be complemented. Can
  • [57:57] Mike: you tell me what I mean? What? What's your favorite part? I mean, come on, let's let's get some compliments here. Like, Okay, I'm curious to hear what she likes about them.
  • [57:59] Mike: Like the throbbing head. Like
  • [58:17] Ally: what? The glands is like large, You know, when it's like thick, I guess I like a little bit of a curve. Tiny bit of a curve. I don't know. I also feel like I've been in relationships where there's a fair amount of, like, anthropomorphizing his Penis. Or, like, you know, Oh, your dick wants this or something, or like,
  • [58:20] Ally: how does your dick feel like anything. So like,
  • [58:21] Mike: Okay,
  • [58:24] Mike: that again feels like the because it's attached to you. I know that's
  • [58:36] Keith: exactly what I was gonna say. She just to be very careful about bowling. What if it was someone else's Penis, right? Like, it's It's it's it's that it belongs to him. That's important,
  • [58:39] Keith: right?
  • [58:45] Ally: What do you mean? In terms of my appreciation of the way it looks or in terms of the anthropomorphizing,
  • [58:50] Keith: the anthropomorphizing? Uh, it
  • [58:51] Ally: Yeah, like
  • [58:54] Ally: I mean, there's even a little voice and everything, right? Like, Okay,
  • [58:58] Keith: do you ever do you ever Oh, my God.
  • [59:00] Mike: Yeah, that's that's like, That's very different.
  • [59:06] Keith: Do you ever just, like, scour the Web looking at, you know, close ups of penises?
  • [59:11] Ally: If I'm looking for something to masturbate to? Okay, that's interesting, Like Okay,
  • [59:13] Keith: that's interesting, all right.
  • [59:14] Mike: I don't think that's common.
  • [59:18] Mike: I don't think it's incredibly uncommon, actually. Yeah,
  • [59:20] Keith: that's that's my guess. But
  • [59:23] Mike: I mean, I like it, but
  • [59:30] Mike: by the way, you know, our our listeners can I mean, we had one dick pics sent to us. I mean, if people want God to send us district,
  • [59:34] Ally: you are opening yourself up we can follow them on the alley.
  • [59:46] Mike: We've got plenty. We've got plenty. We've got plenty valley. Well, if you want to send us a dick pic for Allie, just put it, You know. Mm. Peapod gmail dot com. And we will forward it on to or just make sure it's in the subject line.
  • [59:54] Mike: This is We can not have to look at it. She will give you feedback on an episode. Or maybe even Does Gmail
  • [59:58] Keith: still still show thumbnail previews regard? Can we turn that off?
  • [59:59] Mike: I hope not.
  • [60:00] Keith: If
  • [60:05] Ally: you're into tricking Keith and Mike into seeing your dick, you can send an email. It does not have it in the subject.
  • [60:07] Keith: Right? Right. Right.
  • [60:13] Mike: You could. Yeah. It would be nice if you just put in a zip file or something. So we don't. Okay,
  • [60:15] Keith: I think this is a good place.
  • [60:18] Keith: This is a good place to Frank. 20 megabytes. It's
  • [60:22] Mike: like I don't want you don't want to hear more. You don't want to hear more from Ali. About what?
  • [60:27] Mike: Okay, hang on. Just one more thing here. So you like a big head.
  • [60:36] Mike: Do you like it? Long, short, Thick, thin, like What? Let's hear your since you have, like, okay. And the reason I'm asking this alley is women don't have preferences like this, typically.
  • [60:38] Mike: So, seeing as you do,
  • [60:39] Mike: yeah,
  • [60:42] Mike: nah. Did you talk to women a lot about this?
  • [60:51] Ally: Do I know what I mean? There's there's this general, you know, size matters. That's from the woman's perspective, right? It's not like
  • [60:57] Mike: size that relates to how would you How it feels, right, but
  • [61:02] Ally: proportional. Like, if it's very long, but also very skinny. That is weird looking.
  • [61:02] Ally: Uh,
  • [61:04] Mike: so you like it, But do you like
  • [61:06] Mike: Okay?
  • [61:08] Mike: And you know, you want it to be long?
  • [61:12] Ally: Yeah. You want it to be, like, more than five inches? I'll say, No offense, Keith, but
  • [61:21] Keith: please, please. You would early teens. And now, anyway,
  • [61:26] Mike: what would you say about if it was, say, six and three quarters? Is that good?
  • [61:28] Ally: Yeah, that sounds perf.
  • [61:31] Ally: I have been with one guy
  • [61:38] Ally: like I've been with one guy where it was too long or like too big in the sense that it kept slipping out when we were trying to have sex. Like
  • [61:40] Ally: so it can be to
  • [61:41] Keith: the opposite.
  • [61:43] Mike: Why was it slipping. I don't understand. I would
  • [61:46] Keith: think I would think that would be a problem with one that is too small.
  • [61:48] Keith: Hypothetically.
  • [61:50] Ally: Oh, no. But I think just like,
  • [61:59] Ally: you know, I mean, I'm not going to like that. My vagina was, like, too tight, and so, like it would naturally want to, like, force it out. You know what I mean? Like,
  • [62:05] Mike: but the guy's job is to thrust it back in, so Well, Yeah, right. Yeah, literally. His
  • [62:13] Ally: job, right. It was just, like, uncomfortable, You know, an uncomfortable amount of stretching from this.
  • [62:16] Keith: Okay, that makes sense. Okay,
  • [62:19] Keith: One more thing. Why a curve?
  • [62:21] Keith: Is it more more
  • [62:24] Ally: realistically pleasing?
  • [62:26] Mike: Um, upward downward with direction
  • [62:28] Keith: upward. I'm sure
  • [62:35] Ally: to the left that I've ever seen one that curves down. Yeah. I mean, to the to the left or right or up.
  • [62:40] Ally: Well, they are trying to imagine what it would look like if it curves down like, Yeah, but it's hard and curves down like,
  • [62:55] Mike: uh, you can see. I mean, actually, Ali, the fact that you've never seen when the curves down makes me skeptical about your porn. Um, accessing habits. Because there's plenty of them the curve kind of downward. I mean, you know, it's Yeah, that that that happens somewhat frequently in porn.
  • [62:57] Ally: Okay, I'll pay more attention to that.
  • [63:08] Mike: But you prefer the curve up to the straight arrow. And that's not because you want she spot stimulation. It's actually aesthetic. You're like, you know, your vision of the perfect male penises curved upward.
  • [63:13] Ally: I would say, I would say curved to one side or the other is slightly better than curved upward, but yeah,
  • [63:14] Ally: what?
  • [63:16] Mike: But isn't that asymmetrical?
  • [63:18] Mike: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [63:20] Mike: And you like that, Okay.
  • [63:21] Mike: Uh huh.
  • [63:29] Mike: Yeah, maybe Ali. I mean, you know, in the ancient world, I mean, they used penises as mile markers as, uh, markers for the end of
  • [63:41] Mike: Oh, absolutely. No. They made sculptures. I mean, if you go to Pompeii, there's penises everywhere. Penises. Big statues of penises were used to mark the ends of properties to various stuff like that. And maybe women like you
  • [63:55] Mike: who appreciated a good cock were part of that. I assume it was just guys that did it, but but it's It's not. It's lovely to hear that because, you know, that's not a common, uh, female reaction. I actually think it's like, very uncommon.
  • [64:00] Ally: So if you're going along the road and it's like Mile three, there's three dicks or
  • [64:11] Mike: no, just be like I'm not sure, Okay, I'm not sure about mile markers, but certainly the ends of properties. And it would just be, you know, a big cock to show you like, Look, there's there's your your entering some man's territory And here's his There's a cock to tell you.
  • [64:13] Mike: Uh huh Okay,
  • [64:17] Keith: interesting. I wonder if it was like, uh,
  • [64:19] Keith: plastered from his actual dick
  • [64:24] Keith: or modeled after his actual dick. Or if it's just sort of a generic generic Penis generic.
  • [64:30] Mike: It would be sort of the dick of a God like, you know, like the God was in like Prokopis Pavlopoulos was the
  • [64:35] Mike: That's why the priapism. The the painful, uh, everlasting erection is
  • [64:46] Mike: the God who had the gigantic cock. And like in Pompeii, there's like the picture of the scales where, like they're comparing the weight of a cock like guys coming to buy stuff in the market, and it shows like he's weighing his cock
  • [64:50] Mike: versus, like all the products he's going to buy. It's a great picture.
  • [64:55] Keith: I have not. I have not seen this picture. Maybe we can link in the show notes if we remember.
  • [65:11] Keith: All right, that's enough on peanut shape. This is That's That's okay, That's enough. Your mileage may vary for now. This was Episode 30 for us. Who, if you'd like to reach us, we still pay $15 for any feedback. We receive that Y M m v pot at gmail dot com.