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Episode 31: BDSM, Kink Parties, Anal Hooks, Pegging, Fetlife

Team YMMV | 3-15-2021 | 57:25

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Our guest Becca gives us insight into the differences between kink and sex play. We discuss different types of bondage, what goes in to making responsible BDSM porn, and the BDSM scene more generally, including some discussion of sites like Fetlife.

Becca wants folks to know about an event hosted this Thursday, March 18 2021, by the San Francisco Sex-Positive Democratic Club. Here is a link: https://www.facebook.com/events/775288679747488/

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/31/anal-hook-1

https://ymmv.me/31/anal-hook-2-2

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:01] Becca: Yeah, I
  • [0:07] Keith: don't I don't like how. Okay, if this man leaves the room,
  • [0:08] Keith: what happens to her?
  • [0:11] Mike: She probably turn sideways and get out.
  • [0:14] Becca: Can't her arms are not restrained?
  • [0:20] Keith: Yeah, I guess she could. You're right. She could reach forward. She could sort of shimmy forward to where the rope is attached.
  • [0:27] Becca: She could, uh I could get out of that in, like, 12 seconds.
  • [0:27] Mike: Hello, And welcome
  • [0:35] Keith: to your mileage. May vary. We talk about sex and relationships. I am Keith. My co host is Mike. Can you demonstrate that your President, Mike?
  • [0:36] Mike: Hello, everyone.
  • [0:41] Keith: And we have a new guest today. High DACA.
  • [0:43] Becca: Hi, Keith. Hi, Mike.
  • [0:47] Becca: Um, how I am excited to be here today?
  • [0:49] Becca: Uh, yeah.
  • [0:59] Keith: Can you tell us a little bit about your I don't know if qualifications is the right word, but maybe what might make this conversation interesting?
  • [1:08] Becca: Uh, so I have been involved in the San Francisco kink and sex positive seen since about 2013.
  • [1:14] Becca: Um, for a while, I was leading this group called the San Francisco TNG,
  • [1:20] Becca: which is a way for people who are between 18 and 40 to be like introduced to the scene
  • [1:23] Becca: Um In addition, I am
  • [1:27] Becca: on the board of the San Francisco Sex Positive Democratic Club,
  • [1:33] Becca: which seeks to bring the like philosophy of sex positivity into local governance.
  • [1:37] Becca: Um, and I am
  • [1:48] Becca: also a podcaster. I make a podcast called Inter Traction ALS, which is an intersectional feminist investigation of Star Trek, and we do sometimes talk about kinky stuff.
  • [1:50] Mike: Wow!
  • [1:56] Keith: And oddly specific. How many episodes? How much is there? Is there to cover
  • [2:07] Becca: that? Oh, my God, there is so much. So there's so much we have, I think what, like 37 episodes at this point? But it's like there's
  • [2:11] Becca: Since 1966 Star Trek has been
  • [2:14] Becca: in some iteration or other alive in the world, so
  • [2:16] Keith: okay, but it is mostly not.
  • [2:17] Keith: Would you
  • [2:21] Keith: Quantum qualify that show as sex? Positive?
  • [2:23] Becca: Um,
  • [2:24] Becca: not necessarily,
  • [2:38] Becca: but we can take some We, you know, we take an intersectional feminist lens to Star Trek, and it's not like exclude. We don't exclusively talk about sex and sex, positivity, sex, positivity. But we do
  • [2:41] Becca: often talk about,
  • [2:46] Becca: you know, broader feminist issues. Sure, Elias, all that kind of stuff.
  • [2:48] Keith: Yeah.
  • [2:54] Keith: Um okay, so I think we're going to get into a bunch of this stuff here. Um,
  • [3:03] Keith: but we're gonna open the proceedings with our usual porn viewing and analysis segment. Um, what of your adventures found us this time, Mike?
  • [3:18] Mike: Well, I know that Becca has a specific interest and knowledge based around sort of B. D S m. We've had one guest on in the past who had some experience there, too. But I think Becca's will be a little different, maybe more informed on some level. And so anyway, I picked out a couple of videos that
  • [3:24] Mike: that are kind of interesting snippets of some stuff that I noticed recently online.
  • [3:25] Mike: Um,
  • [3:33] Mike: yeah. And as usual, we'll put the video links in the show notes so people can follow along. And, uh,
  • [3:38] Mike: yeah, we have two videos and we'll start the first one just at the beginning, right at the beginning of the video,
  • [3:45] Keith: just based on the name of this video anal hook in the ass does its job
  • [3:49] Keith: concerned that this is not going to be my favorite content viewing. I think it's
  • [3:54] Mike: really interesting. I think it's really interesting. It's something that I wasn't aware of until, like a month ago. Everything
  • [4:05] Keith: All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna do this in the name of science. Okay? All right. I'm going to start this. And are you ready? Back up. Okay. I'm gonna start this in 321 starting.
  • [4:07] Mike: So it starts with the standard, like
  • [4:08] Mike: porn hub. Like
  • [4:16] Mike: little text. There's a woman with a steel or metal thing. Step over, but and she's
  • [4:30] Mike: it's connected to her hair and somebody slapping her. The key thing here, though, is that because of the hook that's in her, but that's connected to her hair. And also, like some sort of windows or something. Maybe the bed frame. She can't actually move. She's sort of immobilized by it, and that's actually the end of it. It's only 22 seconds
  • [4:35] Keith: long. If she moves, it will insert the hook further. I'm
  • [4:37] Becca: actually not going to sit around,
  • [4:40] Becca: like, changes the angle or whatever
  • [4:48] Keith: in a good way or bad way. Like is she supposed to be restrained so that she can't move? Or is she is this good?
  • [4:50] Becca: Uh,
  • [5:09] Becca: well, it depends on what you're trying to achieve. I think it like there is some restriction of motion, obviously. Um, but There's also that like I mentioned, like when she moves around the angle and the depth of that hook will change.
  • [5:14] Becca: So and, you know, a lot of people also like having their hair pulled or
  • [5:20] Becca: some other way like a sensation of hair pulling. So that's an added element in this particular clip.
  • [5:22] Becca: Um,
  • [5:24] Becca: yeah, so
  • [5:26] Becca: ain't no pleasure. It's a real thing.
  • [5:33] Mike: Yeah, So there's a couple things here that, like so first of all, like, you can't tell this from this clip, but there is a sort of a ball
  • [5:35] Mike: attached to the end of the hook, which is sort of like
  • [5:38] Mike: keeping it in place inside of her ass.
  • [5:39] Mike: And, uh,
  • [5:42] Keith: the thing that I thought was sort of interesting to sharp end to the hook. Correct?
  • [5:54] Mike: Correct. But it also means that, like there's something that has to be inserted right, let's get that requires a little bit of lubrication and then kind of fun inserting The other thing that I found sort of interesting about this is it's like
  • [6:00] Mike: I just never considered the notion of restraint like, I don't think it's just like that. It moves around inside her body like
  • [6:04] Mike: she's actually physically restrained by this. Like the hook is
  • [6:09] Mike: kind of going up her vertebrae in such a way that, like she actually like it's actually like
  • [6:25] Mike: like yeah, like holding her body in place and a pretty physically pretty, I imagine. Pretty, like, forceful way, right? Like she's like, Yeah, I mean, more restraint. Like I wouldn't have imagined that you could use somebody's anus to restrain them in this way, if that makes sense, keep.
  • [6:33] Becca: Yeah, like, I would have preferred to never think about this. I
  • [6:35] Keith: don't I don't like how.
  • [6:39] Keith: Okay, if this man leaves the room,
  • [6:40] Keith: what happens to her?
  • [6:43] Mike: She probably turn sideways and get out.
  • [6:46] Becca: Can't her arms are not restrained?
  • [6:52] Keith: Yeah, I guess she could. You're right. She could reach forward. She could sort of shimmy forward to where the rope is attached.
  • [6:56] Becca: She could, and she I could get out of that in, like,
  • [6:58] Becca: 12 seconds. That's interesting.
  • [7:02] Keith: Well, okay. You're the Houdini of getting out of,
  • [7:08] Becca: uh well, it would be my arms if my hands were restrained as well. Okay,
  • [7:14] Keith: Okay, fine. There are aspects of B. D. S M where, like, you are completely dependent
  • [7:20] Keith: on the other person. That's like, I guess, some more advanced bondage. Yeah.
  • [7:26] Becca: Yeah, there's a whole There's a whole spectrum of bondage, and some of it is completely complete immobilization.
  • [7:31] Becca: Um, and some is, like, very just, like, playful. Like
  • [7:34] Becca: you can You can do,
  • [7:42] Becca: like, entirely mental bondage. Like I'm going to put your hands here like this. Don't move them.
  • [7:51] Keith: Mm. Okay, so that would be like on the lowest end of, like, physical restraint. Okay, Alright. And then you can get to a point where you're using, like, police. Great handcuffs. And the keys have been incinerated.
  • [7:54] Becca: Yeah, I don't really recommend like
  • [8:00] Becca: that. Police great handcuffs. Like you want something that's at least a little bit padded too.
  • [8:01] Becca: Um,
  • [8:08] Becca: in your restraint. I mean, unless you're really trying to go for something bloody and damaging. And that's not sexy, in my opinion,
  • [8:11] Keith: I was talking about the
  • [8:17] Keith: the magnitude of the restraint, not the physical comfort of it, but okay. Yeah, Alright. Obviously, both things are
  • [8:22] Keith: are in place. All right? Should we watch the next one, or should we discuss this one more? What do you think? Let's go to
  • [8:26] Mike: the next one. Then we can talk about the some some more general stuff. Okay,
  • [8:42] Mike: so the next one we're going to start again. It's in the show notes, and we'll start it at 1. 45 just because there's, like, a kind of gets you to the And Becca informed us that this is a kink dot com clip, which I did not know from this from the
  • [8:43] Mike: You didn't know
  • [8:46] Becca: just from the still image of it. I
  • [8:49] Mike: didn't I didn't I
  • [9:03] Becca: would like to say there's an ad that's showing up over this, like as it's loading and it's somebody. It's an animated thing with, like somebody pouring apple cider vinegar on their dick. I don't understand what's going on there, but what is it for the vinegar?
  • [9:08] Becca: Probably this weird trick makes any Penis increased by 65%.
  • [9:11] Keith: Oh, send that to Mike. Um, no, no,
  • [9:15] Becca: never mind. We're about that.
  • [9:23] Keith: We're going to start in. Uh, alright. Is everyone ready? Okay, I'm going to start in 321 starting.
  • [9:31] Mike: Okay, so there's a woman who is restrained on her stomach. She looks like she can't put her head down also. So, like, she has some kind of like rope restraints.
  • [9:36] Mike: Yeah, That's right. There's a rope going up to the ceiling. Anyway. There's a man. The important thing is there's a man behind with some kind of rod
  • [9:39] Mike: that he's probing her, I guess. Vagina with
  • [9:43] Mike: and you sort of worry. It's almost like he's mopping. You worry what's on the end of this rod?
  • [9:44] Mike: Um,
  • [9:48] Mike: Okay, now they show sort of a close up, and you see that there's, like a,
  • [9:52] Mike: I guess, somewhat realistic dildo attached to it. Yeah.
  • [9:59] Mike: Um, she also has an anal hook that is part of a restraint. She I don't know if she could get out of this. I think she may be
  • [10:00] Mike: really stuck.
  • [10:04] Becca: Yeah, this is This is very restrained. Her
  • [10:08] Becca: arms and hands are tied like very
  • [10:17] Mike: her legs are out in an angle that I don't think my legs could go there. Kind of. She's on her stomach, but her legs are kind of like out to the sides restrained.
  • [10:22] Mike: And it's unclear. I mean, she's appearing to enjoy it, Although I always have skepticism in these situations.
  • [10:25] Keith: I think this is a performance. Yes.
  • [10:26] Mike: Anyway, that's about a minute. So
  • [10:34] Keith: Okay, All right, let's let's let's stop this. It looks like a guy working. Uh, you know what it reminds me of?
  • [10:39] Keith: Like an iron in a fire or something. He's like forging something.
  • [10:42] Keith: That's what the rod looks like to me.
  • [10:47] Keith: Yes. Okay. Becca, can you What's going on here?
  • [10:52] Becca: Um, yeah. What's going on here? So
  • [11:01] Becca: many people really do enjoy being restrained and the and I'm among them, like being in bondage. Having
  • [11:11] Becca: to me, the psychology of it is is there's a very specific kind of freedom that is present when you cannot.
  • [11:16] Becca: You have no power to control any of your limbs. Like you don't have to worry about
  • [11:20] Becca: what your body is doing, because you can't.
  • [11:21] Becca: Um
  • [11:25] Becca: and so there's like,
  • [11:26] Becca: a real
  • [11:31] Becca: ability to then get completely embodied
  • [11:33] Becca: when you're
  • [11:38] Becca: when you stop worrying about, like, how am I responsible for where my
  • [11:41] Becca: where my hands and my feet and any other part of my body is.
  • [11:50] Mike: So you're describing sort of like being submissive like the other. You. I think that's what you're saying. I want to put words in your mouth, but like that, an important element is the other persons in charge.
  • [11:55] Becca: Yeah, it's a it's definitely a flavor. of submission for sure.
  • [11:57] Becca: Yeah,
  • [12:06] Mike: and is there is it Do you find that it's enhanced by being in a situation where you actually like So in our first clip, like we agree that the woman could
  • [12:14] Mike: get out of it? The second one, it seemed like, maybe not. Do you think there's, like, a significant difference between the two? Or or is it kind of the same in the sense that you have to trust the other person and so forth?
  • [12:15] Becca: Mhm.
  • [12:24] Becca: I mean, yeah, all of these scenarios are very much built on, like trusting the other person. Um, and I think that that's
  • [12:26] Becca: part of what makes it
  • [12:34] Becca: sexy. Is that you you have built that report and that trust with your partner
  • [12:36] Becca: and
  • [12:37] Becca: in
  • [12:46] Becca: and in the production of porn there, especially with, like kink dot com. Because I've met people who work on sets there and like, bottle for them or whatever,
  • [12:58] Becca: um, that they do a lot of work around setting things up, making sure that everybody knows, like how things are going to go and
  • [13:00] Becca: that gives you
  • [13:06] Becca: some ability to relax into the moment and really just be
  • [13:08] Becca: They're like,
  • [13:11] Keith: Do they have psychologists there.
  • [13:13] Becca: I don't know about that.
  • [13:16] Becca: Um, maybe, But I doubt it.
  • [13:20] Becca: Unless somebody unless somebody has happens to have a psychology degree.
  • [13:23] Keith: Okay? Incidental psychologist,
  • [13:24] Becca: right.
  • [13:28] Keith: This strikes me as something that could
  • [13:36] Keith: leave someone quite traumatized. Even if this was just in a acting situation, unless
  • [13:38] Keith: there was a certain
  • [13:39] Keith: parameter.
  • [13:41] Keith: Yeah. Have
  • [13:45] Becca: you ever watched a full video from king dot com?
  • [13:46] Keith: I have not.
  • [13:51] Mike: It's really hard to watch the full video as a man for obvious reasons.
  • [14:06] Becca: Well, I guess I I guess my question is more have you watched the beginning and the end of kink dot com like they tend to be like, up to an hour. And when you pay for them and you buy the full thing like
  • [14:08] Becca: that's
  • [14:23] Becca: that's a lot of viewing pleasure that you can achieve out of a single, you know, a single purchase. Um, but the reason I asked that question is that at the beginning, at the end of kink dot com, like productions,
  • [14:24] Becca: they
  • [14:28] Becca: are in conversation with the models, the people who are
  • [14:29] Becca: doing this,
  • [14:32] Becca: and in the beginning, it's like
  • [14:41] Becca: let's make sure that you're comfortable. Here's how things are going to go and then the end. They do like a debrief. How did that go? What? What was your experience like?
  • [14:44] Becca: And, you know, it's always there, like,
  • [14:46] Becca: very pleased with
  • [14:53] Becca: what did. Like. I have no doubt that she's enjoying herself in that in that clip.
  • [14:56] Mike: Okay, that's interesting. So it's not purely acting
  • [14:59] Mike: from your perspective.
  • [15:02] Becca: Well, what is acting? I don't know. Like
  • [15:03] Becca: I
  • [15:09] Becca: I have no doubt that she's deriving sexual pleasure from that experience,
  • [15:16] Mike: because, yeah, I guess you wouldn't sign up to do that. You wouldn't, uh,
  • [15:23] Becca: you'll be difficult if it's not your bag. You're not going to You're going to go do some other kind of port. Like Sure.
  • [15:23] Becca: Yeah,
  • [15:27] Keith: sure. Well, okay. All right. So the before and after care are like, obviously
  • [15:36] Keith: big parts of I think, what would be considered proper BD sm stuff? I have seen porn where
  • [15:37] Keith: it's
  • [15:40] Keith: intentionally demeaning
  • [15:44] Keith: to the receiver in a way that,
  • [15:44] Keith: you
  • [15:45] Becca: know,
  • [15:48] Becca: Yeah, a lot of corn is very misogynistic.
  • [15:50] Becca: You're you're correct.
  • [15:54] Mike: Well, you don't think that this this clip here was misogynistic.
  • [16:03] Mike: All right. What's what's the what? What? What? What? What are the features of this that make it not because, I mean, I think I think the naive person would look at this and say, like, Look like
  • [16:04] Mike: I mean,
  • [16:09] Mike: yeah, she's tied up. There's a whole bunch of things that you could perceive as misogynistic. So I'm interested in well, in your perception,
  • [16:12] Becca: I think that the difference is that
  • [16:13] Becca: it's
  • [16:23] Becca: like, Well, I know that the people who are participating in that have signed on have said like, Yes, this is what I want to do This is what I'm into
  • [16:28] Becca: Okay, um and
  • [16:37] Becca: you know, at the same time there might be some kind of script that has undertones of misogyny and sexism and whatever and like
  • [16:45] Becca: that's president in a lot of porn. And it's actually part of why I like I don't I don't enjoy a whole lot of porn, And I don't often like, just kind of go
  • [16:49] Becca: whatever browsing on porn hub or whatever. Like,
  • [16:50] Becca: Um,
  • [16:56] Becca: I think it's important to pay for port, and a lot of important that you have to pay for is a lot more like
  • [17:00] Becca: reliable about how it treats the people who are in it,
  • [17:03] Becca: especially the women who are in it.
  • [17:04] Becca: um,
  • [17:08] Becca: but I think that
  • [17:11] Becca: I don't know, like, she's super wet.
  • [17:13] Becca: It's pretty straightforward.
  • [17:17] Keith: She certainly appeared to be Yes.
  • [17:18] Keith: Mhm.
  • [17:20] Keith: Um,
  • [17:22] Keith: yeah. Okay. All right.
  • [17:25] Keith: This line, though, between
  • [17:30] Keith: okay, it's frustrating. I don't know, frustrating the right word. It's interesting that
  • [17:36] Keith: much of the B. D S M porn that is available on porn hub or that seems to get the most views
  • [17:37] Keith: often
  • [17:41] Keith: has the trope where the woman is being particularly demeaned.
  • [17:50] Keith: And to your point, you know, like in the in the organizations that you work for or sorry that that you are involved with, um,
  • [18:01] Keith: you know, you would advocate for good lines of communication before and after care, but the stuff that, like men seem to be consuming on this is not
  • [18:06] Keith: or is, at least at best, paying lip service to that and often sort of
  • [18:10] Keith: ignoring it or discarding it like that
  • [18:15] Keith: paradox or juxtaposition is, I don't know, sort of alarming. It seems like this can
  • [18:18] Becca: discussion of our patriarchal culture. Yeah,
  • [18:22] Keith: yeah, it just seems like this can quickly go off the rails.
  • [18:25] Becca: Well,
  • [18:32] Becca: you know, there's a lot of factors that go into how come there's a market for
  • [18:39] Becca: for the female participants important to be demeaned, degraded, dehumanized
  • [18:40] Becca: and
  • [18:43] Becca: it's
  • [18:51] Becca: it's just a distillation of the way that our culture is. I don't think it's I actually don't think it's specific to pour.
  • [18:54] Keith: Yeah, that's probably true. I mean,
  • [18:59] Mike: so in. So, Becca in your, uh okay, so So like
  • [19:08] Mike: this, These particular clips and I'm sort of guilty for picking out clips. But although it to be fair, like, if you're looking for clips that are B. D S m, you're going to find things that look like this, whether it's like
  • [19:10] Mike: the most common thing there are,
  • [19:11] Becca: like, probably have
  • [19:13] Mike: role play the opposite direction
  • [19:20] Becca: movies very similar to this one. I'm not this one specifically, but very similar to this. Sure,
  • [19:23] Mike: but like the okay, is it?
  • [19:35] Mike: I realized, like there's a wide variety, but it strikes me that, like most maybe maybe a large majority of the sort of B. D S m play that's out there, not just porn, but like things people do actually is
  • [19:37] Mike: male, dominant and female submissive. Is that wrong?
  • [19:40] Becca: Yeah. No, you're not wrong. Um,
  • [19:44] Mike: okay. But so I mean, so it's I don't know if it's fair to say that like Okay,
  • [19:55] Mike: if you assume that the people are all consenting in general, like people are consenting and stuff like that, it's not just a reflection of culture, right? I mean, isn't there some sort of underlying like tendency that's being revealed there? That a woman
  • [20:01] Mike: has more fun being in a submissive role? In general, I realized, like, you know, there are always outliers and
  • [20:13] Mike: there is the opposite direction that things go. I mean, isn't it couldn't be viewed as just, you know, So porn is depicting the stuff, partly because it's from the male gaze, but also because it's like, Yeah, that's just what people do, right? I mean, women are often
  • [20:15] Mike: today. She's being submissive. I don't know. How do you feel about
  • [20:17] Becca: that?
  • [20:18] Becca: Well, I have
  • [20:24] Becca: very complex feelings about it and let me see if I can say them in any kind of brief way.
  • [20:28] Becca: So
  • [20:37] Becca: we live in a sexually violent culture. Sexual violence is rained upon women erotic sizing. That is a way to reclaim power about it.
  • [20:43] Becca: So that's one. That's one way that I think about it. Another way that I think about it is that actually
  • [20:51] Becca: any, like many people of all genders, enjoy submission. It is just easier for women to express that because of
  • [20:58] Becca: the cultural expectations around it. It's harder for men to express a desire to be submissive because it
  • [20:59] Becca: it,
  • [21:01] Becca: um
  • [21:02] Becca: what's the word?
  • [21:10] Becca: It jeopardizes their masculinity in a way that it does not jeopardize my femininity to embrace that about myself.
  • [21:12] Mike: Do you find that it would be, uh,
  • [21:16] Mike: you would find it would jeopardize your femininity to be? Are you ever dominant?
  • [21:17] Becca: Rarely.
  • [21:21] Mike: All right. And does that work for you? It rarely. So it's not that really your thing.
  • [21:26] Becca: It really depends on the on the person that I'm interacting with.
  • [21:28] Becca: Yeah, like
  • [21:31] Becca: I have definitely felt that prison of like
  • [21:35] Becca: power in certain like
  • [21:40] Becca: it expressed it. Especially expresses itself when people
  • [21:43] Becca: like to do like puppy play
  • [21:45] Becca: like
  • [21:48] Becca: like, kind of animal, like
  • [21:50] Becca: if somebody is a little puppy
  • [21:55] Becca: and they want me to come in and like, interacting like a little puppy and I'm their master, I am into that,
  • [22:08] Becca: Um, and it's like it's like, barely sexual. It's more like I feel a lot more about that person the same way that I feel about an actual dog than I do about somebody I want to have sex with. Brutal.
  • [22:10] Keith: So
  • [22:15] Mike: this is a this. So, you know, men that want to be treated like puppies.
  • [22:23] Mike: Can you give us any more color on what happens? Like, you know? Yeah. Like what? Okay, so you come in and he's dressed up like a dog.
  • [22:29] Becca: I like thinking with this particular interaction that I had with somebody at Burning Man one time.
  • [22:33] Becca: His name is squeak, or at least his personas name is sweet.
  • [22:34] Mike: I don't want to talk.
  • [22:38] Keith: There's plenty of squeaks in the world back to work.
  • [22:50] Becca: And he was in, like, a collar and, I don't know, maybe like a jockstrap or something. But it was all in the behavior, like he was, like, really just behaving like a little puppy.
  • [22:54] Becca: And you just want to pet him. I just wanted to pet him and, like, scratch them and be like,
  • [22:56] Becca: Oh, are you so cute?
  • [22:58] Becca: Um, like, taken for a walk.
  • [23:00] Becca: And,
  • [23:07] Becca: uh, I have another friend who I sometimes you probably play with and, uh,
  • [23:09] Becca: like, for him,
  • [23:17] Becca: what I enjoy about it is like making him do something that I know that he wants to do. But he's very uncomfortable doing.
  • [23:30] Keith: Yeah, I was going to hold on. I was just going to comment that I suspect Yeah, Okay. We're definitely gonna double click on that, but yeah, I suspect that something about pretending to be an animal role playing an animal makes it easier for them to
  • [23:40] Keith: embrace their submissiveness. Right? Like it's almost like a ruse or something. That anyway, Yeah, Like like Like what?
  • [23:42] Mike: Eat out of the dish or something like,
  • [23:43] Becca: Yeah, I go for a walk.
  • [23:45] Mike: Some sexual thing. I don't know.
  • [23:48] Becca: I hate. Yeah. So this is
  • [24:00] Becca: so more broadly. I think that there is kink and there's sex. And there's an intersection. Like, if you can imagine a Venn diagram and two circles, they intersect, but they are not the same.
  • [24:01] Becca: And
  • [24:04] Becca: there's a whole world of kink that
  • [24:09] Becca: involves never touching each other's genitals. Ever.
  • [24:10] Becca: Um,
  • [24:13] Becca: so what is that? Is that sex?
  • [24:15] Becca: I don't know.
  • [24:28] Becca: No, in my opinion or yes, maybe it's very It's very fuzzy, like, I think that there's this, like, we try to draw some stark lines around. What is sex and what isn't. And it's just not
  • [24:30] Becca: as clear cut as we want. How does that?
  • [24:35] Keith: How does that get negotiated? Right? Like if you're at some sort of sex party and
  • [24:36] Keith: you know you
  • [24:40] Keith: Well, that's just doing this. Okay. Sorry. You're at some sort of
  • [24:41] Keith: party party.
  • [24:48] Becca: Okay, well, let's Let's wait. Let's pause about sex parties because I've been to sex parties and I've been to kink parties and they're very different.
  • [24:52] Keith: I see. Okay. Now. Okay.
  • [24:58] Keith: Yes. How do you know? Negotiate the expectation of whether or not there's going to be sexual
  • [25:00] Keith: activity. Talk about it.
  • [25:01] Keith: Okay.
  • [25:05] Becca: You say this is what I'm comfortable doing.
  • [25:07] Becca: I want you to
  • [25:09] Becca: never take your underwear off.
  • [25:12] Becca: If you get hard. That's fine. I don't care
  • [25:15] Becca: that I'm not going to do anything about it.
  • [25:18] Mike: So when you say a kink party like,
  • [25:26] Mike: yeah, I was going to ask you, Like, how do you like? How does one find, if one specifically was interested in non sexual kink?
  • [25:29] Mike: Is that like, fat life dot com or something? Like What's the What's the
  • [25:32] Becca: I mean, I got it
  • [25:38] Becca: very complicated feelings about that life I haven't logged into my felt life account and probably like over a year.
  • [25:41] Becca: Uh, just because I think it's
  • [25:43] Becca: a
  • [25:47] Becca: The things about that life that are functional are the event,
  • [25:52] Becca: like planning and announcements. And then there's there's an entire, like
  • [25:58] Becca: area of it that I just don't want to touch where people are having all kinds of fucking drama.
  • [25:58] Becca: Um, like,
  • [26:06] Keith: what is it? I thought that life was sort of like tinder except you listed your fetishes. Okay. No, it's much more like Facebook.
  • [26:19] Becca: Okay, Yeah, it's much more like facebook. Um, it's It's Yeah, it's a place for people to find community. And that's how I found TNG, the organization. I mentioned that I was leading for a while.
  • [26:20] Becca: Um,
  • [26:22] Becca: but life
  • [26:23] Becca: is
  • [26:31] Becca: like Facebook for King stirs in that you set up a profile. You, like, talk about the things that you
  • [26:39] Becca: are interested in. You have. You connect with friends, you post post pictures, you can post comments, you can like
  • [26:41] Becca: organized events.
  • [26:44] Becca: Um, and
  • [26:50] Becca: if you're like, if you're trying to use it like tinder, you're probably not going to
  • [26:53] Becca: find it very enjoyable. Honestly, like,
  • [26:59] Becca: I think that there's a lot of people who go into vet life and like
  • [27:01] Becca: their profile picture is a dick.
  • [27:13] Becca: Probably there is. But who knows? And they and they just, like, send kind of creepy messages to anybody that they think is remotely sexy. And
  • [27:17] Becca: then they get sad when they don't get responses from that.
  • [27:18] Keith: Okay, that sounds a lot like Piper,
  • [27:21] Mike: because it's just a horny guy
  • [27:26] Mike: that makes sense. It's not like it's not somebody who's actually interested in being in the community. They're just yeah,
  • [27:31] Becca: and those people who are an actor who aren't really interested in being in the community
  • [27:37] Becca: are not people that I really want to connect with, because I think that they have really warped,
  • [27:43] Becca: probably from porn ideas about how B. D S M and kink will go
  • [27:55] Becca: and do not have the skill set around negotiation that is very necessary in order for that to actually be something that's mutually enjoyable and safe.
  • [27:56] Mike: Okay, so what
  • [28:14] Mike: if you're if if I was on fet life and I wasn't one of let's be honest here, like, it's probably the vast majority of men who would be the Penis picture, just like looking for a hookup. Okay, let's say I wasn't that guy I probably am. But let's say I wasn't What would be like? I'm actually having difficulty imagining, like, what would be
  • [28:25] Mike: non sexually? What would be a typical thing that I might search for? Like what? What do you find? Would it be dressing up in leather? Like having a part of everybody's dressed in leather? Everybody dressed like I've read about people who dress up like,
  • [28:32] Mike: um, stuffed animals or whatever furries Is that Is that what we're talking about, or is there something like that? I'm totally missing in terms of
  • [28:34] Mike: what would actually happen.
  • [28:36] Becca: Um,
  • [28:44] Becca: I'm not sure if your question is what will happen on fat life or what would happen in the events that you find by being on foot Life. Which question?
  • [28:46] Keith: I think the latter.
  • [28:58] Mike: The second one. The second one? Yeah. I mean, what what would be a typical thing to search for? What would I find? What, like I actually, because I've never been on there and I don't know, maybe I do have one of these kings, and I probably not. I'm probably boring, but
  • [29:00] Mike: yeah, well, like what? What might I look for?
  • [29:02] Becca: Um
  • [29:03] Becca: well,
  • [29:08] Becca: clearly, you came across and were intrigued by videos with people with anal hooks.
  • [29:20] Becca: So maybe that's something that you would look for. I don't know what you would look for you, but I can tell you can tell you a whole host of things that you would be able to find.
  • [29:38] Becca: Um, you met. So you mentioned Furries. Definitely. That's there. You mentioned leather culture. 100%. That's their other things is like a B d l adult baby diaper lovers. Um, and and by and like, extended from that Is
  • [29:44] Becca: any people who like mess around with age play? I'm not really into that. But plenty of people are,
  • [29:45] Becca: um
  • [29:46] Mike: what is H
  • [29:48] Becca: play is,
  • [29:52] Becca: uh, any time that you are playing
  • [30:03] Becca: with a partner as a different age than the age that you are, and it often is its most often, I think, expresses itself as people who are adults
  • [30:04] Becca: pretending to be
  • [30:05] Becca: very young.
  • [30:07] Mike: Yeah, Okay.
  • [30:08] Keith: I got to see where they could be
  • [30:16] Becca: problematic or embodying being very young, like like if you're like, I've talked to people who are in this and they really like
  • [30:23] Becca: when they're in that head space. They really believe that they are five or whatever. However, how a role.
  • [30:35] Mike: So let's say let's say okay, let's say that I did the diaper one, Uh and so I said, Okay, and I I get invited to a party. I'm a reasonable person. I've chatted with some people on this Facebook Lite site
  • [30:42] Mike: and I get invited to a party. So what? So I show up, I'm wearing foreign, some Pampers or whatever,
  • [30:47] Mike: and, uh, and what? We just all stand around in diapers and drink beers or something like what happens?
  • [30:49] Becca: Um, you
  • [30:51] Mike: have no image in my head,
  • [30:59] Becca: I Well, first of all, any time that you're going to a party newly and you
  • [31:02] Becca: want to do that successfully,
  • [31:07] Becca: like, look for they will almost certainly have some kind of orientation.
  • [31:08] Becca: Go to that
  • [31:09] Becca: like
  • [31:11] Becca: 100%.
  • [31:16] Becca: And if if there is an opportunity like a pre meet up
  • [31:21] Becca: to do, that's like expressly social, only do that, too,
  • [31:39] Becca: because you will be a lot happier. You'll have a much better time at any of these parties if you've made social connections with the people who are going to be there before you show up, expecting somebody to play with you in some way that you've never met and you never plan to talk to again. It's
  • [31:44] Becca: about demonstrating that you have some emotional intelligence and some desire to
  • [31:47] Mike: respect. Yeah,
  • [31:53] Mike: um, definitely, definitely. But of course you like you're gonna do something. Yeah, go ahead.
  • [32:06] Becca: Oh, I was just gonna say, like specifically at the adult baby diaper lovers like, I haven't been to a party like that, so I don't know exactly what they do, but I think it's something about wearing diapers and being fed bottles and like playing with toys, stuffed animals or whatever.
  • [32:07] Mike: Okay,
  • [32:17] Mike: so there'd be, like, some sort of facilitator. And you would, uh What I don't know is you mind saying one of these categories that you enjoy frequenting and you could find out what happens in one of those.
  • [32:27] Becca: So I've been a number of rope parties, for example, Bondage parties with rope. Um, and that is
  • [32:33] Becca: like you. You can identify as a rope bottom or rope top. And people who are rooftops
  • [32:35] Becca: are,
  • [32:44] Becca: like, spend a lot of time developing a set of skills around bondage about tying people like Shah Bari. Rope
  • [32:48] Becca: is a very popular Japanese style of rope bondage.
  • [32:52] Becca: Um and so you
  • [32:58] Becca: Yeah, you kind of mingle like eat cheese plate food and you so
  • [33:01] Becca: I'll be strike up conversation. And then maybe you get tied up.
  • [33:02] Becca: This that's
  • [33:03] Mike: interesting.
  • [33:11] Keith: Then diagram that you talked about, you know, sort of between kink and, you know, sex.
  • [33:13] Keith: Like it just seems strange
  • [33:15] Keith: standing around,
  • [33:21] Keith: you know, as you say, eating cheese. I don't know if it was literal or like a figurative thing, but like
  • [33:29] Keith: and then people are like, Oh, yeah, Wow, that was a really good not there like it just seems like it's sort of an arousing
  • [33:39] Keith: thing for the people who maybe some people are into this because they are former boy or Girl Scouts. They really liked knots when they were young, and now this is how they can express it. But I think a lot of people,
  • [33:46] Keith: nay, most are into this because it makes them feel something sexually
  • [33:48] Keith: And
  • [34:01] Keith: yes, they're like a performance part where it's like, OK, everyone's going to, like, sit down sitting around this area where the where the top is going to, you know, do his magician's act of roping everything up, and everyone is sort of quiet and watches, but like nobody's
  • [34:04] Becca: Yeah, that would be called a demo. That does often happen. And
  • [34:07] Keith: no one's masturbating.
  • [34:08] Keith: No,
  • [34:12] Becca: you're really not. And it's like
  • [34:17] Becca: most parties that I've gone to like public masturbation is
  • [34:21] Becca: is a no, no, you will get kicked out if you do that.
  • [34:23] Becca: Okay?
  • [34:25] Mike: Public. Yeah, that makes sense.
  • [34:27] Keith: It just seems a little
  • [34:31] Keith: like Okay, it just seems like, Yeah, it could be
  • [34:32] Keith: Well, okay, I would this
  • [34:38] Mike: make sense to me? Keith, This totally makes sense to me like it's because basically, these are things.
  • [34:40] Mike: These are things that you can't do
  • [34:59] Mike: like in normal society, right? It's like when I say normal, that's you know, But you know, like if I just walk down the street, this is never going to happen. But it's like, Hey, I have this thing I could I could see fight to get interesting, to be tied up by somebody that's interesting, Like if it was a safe environment, like sure, that's that's an interesting experience. And here you can Maybe I'd really like it. I have no idea I haven't done it. And here you have a
  • [35:14] Mike: safe environment where you can actually do this thing that, like most people, most people only dream of doing. But it's true. Most people sort of imagine doing this, and these are people actually doing it. And I mean, I I would joke about the diaper one. That one doesn't appeal to me. But some of these things are like, Hey, this, Uh,
  • [35:22] Mike: yeah, I I wouldn't have the skills to tie someone up, but, uh, being yeah, and I can imagine other ones like this where it's like, Hey, there's this thing that can happen
  • [35:27] Mike: that, like you just read about or you imagine or something or you see in a video or a movie or something
  • [35:41] Keith: that makes sense to me. I can imagine it being intellectually interesting to see. But it also seems like it would be potentially, sexually interesting to see for most of the people involved, and you're like toeing that line is a little bit strange. Okay, I have a question. Do you think
  • [35:50] Keith: that most people and I don't know what most means in this context, but we can talk about it, have some sort of undiscovered or unexpressed
  • [35:51] Keith: kink.
  • [35:53] Becca: Mhm.
  • [35:54] Becca: Yes.
  • [35:55] Becca: Okay.
  • [36:02] Becca: Mm. And and my answer to that is yes, because I think that
  • [36:03] Becca: kink
  • [36:05] Becca: is
  • [36:10] Becca: such a broad and possible term. Like
  • [36:17] Becca: like a lot of people consider sort of rough sex to be kinky. And
  • [36:22] Becca: in my like my experience, rough sex is like,
  • [36:37] Becca: you know, it's it's what's on the menu like I don't know, it's not. Yeah, it's not run of the mill in the in the sense that that's boring and I don't want it. But like running the mill in the sense that
  • [36:41] Becca: when I pick up sexual partners from
  • [36:47] Becca: bars or wherever, like, more often than not, they have been interested in having rough sex.
  • [36:49] Becca: And so is that kink. I don't know.
  • [36:51] Becca: Yes, maybe.
  • [37:01] Keith: Yeah, there's been a lot of discussion lately on the sex subreddit about, um, choking and hair pulling and how a lot of men just assume that you don't need to ask for consent for that
  • [37:10] Becca: anymore. Yeah, which is fucking wild. Choking is actually in like a varsity level kink, and it's and people do it all the time. It's like
  • [37:12] Becca: you could literally kill someone.
  • [37:14] Becca: Yeah,
  • [37:29] Becca: like it's safer. Like what that man was doing to that woman in that video with the with the bondage and the dildo on a stick. She's less likely to die from that than like me taking a random person home. Who decides they want to choke me out?
  • [37:30] Keith: That feels right.
  • [37:31] Keith: That seems right.
  • [37:32] Keith: Um
  • [37:39] Keith: okay, so All right, so if most people have not fully explored their kinky side
  • [37:42] Keith: and
  • [37:48] Keith: okay, do you think the ones that have are able to achieve higher heights of pleasure?
  • [37:49] Keith: Yes.
  • [37:50] Becca: Okay.
  • [38:00] Becca: Yeah, Because like, in anything in anything in life, if you're more in tune with your actual desires, you're better able to express them.
  • [38:10] Keith: Yeah. I mean, I'm asking leading questions here because yeah, I mean, I agree so far. Like, I suspect that there are things that I have not explored about
  • [38:14] Keith: my sexual interests. That could be potentially very interesting. Well, I don't know.
  • [38:17] Mike: It's pegging, pegging. You do
  • [38:22] Becca: want you don't play based on the one that I listen to. I think you wanted.
  • [38:24] Mike: Yes, there we go.
  • [38:26] Becca: And it does not. By the way,
  • [38:28] Keith: these are baseless accusations that
  • [38:33] Mike: I gave. But that's okay,
  • [38:35] Mike: but okay.
  • [38:40] Keith: Okay. But here's Here's the issue. Do you think that you can graduate to a level of
  • [38:46] Keith: sexual understanding and enjoyment that puts
  • [38:50] Keith: some partners into a realm where they're no longer compelling to you.
  • [38:54] Keith: So if you do you understand the question.
  • [38:55] Mike: I do? Yeah.
  • [38:59] Becca: Yeah, I think I understand the question. And
  • [39:08] Becca: where I land on that is like, yeah, I don't want I don't want to have sex with people who don't have a nuanced understanding of the concept of consent.
  • [39:12] Becca: Like I'm not into that.
  • [39:14] Keith: Sure,
  • [39:17] Keith: I meant more. Okay, let's say you discover that,
  • [39:22] Keith: um, you really like being a dominant in a bondage
  • [39:24] Keith: play situation.
  • [39:25] Becca: Well,
  • [39:38] Keith: okay. I mean, there's a lot of women out there that, you know, if I tell them that I really like, you know, rope play are going to sort of Nope, out of the situation. Can you? Yeah. Like, is it is it?
  • [39:40] Keith: I know what you're going to say, but I'll ask the question anyway.
  • [39:45] Keith: Yeah, like, is there a downside to exploring this
  • [39:55] Keith: and the downside being, you know, you sort of limit yourself to a fairly small subset of the population that, like, really considers this and thinks about it and explores it carefully.
  • [39:58] Becca: Mm,
  • [40:00] Becca: I
  • [40:04] Becca: Well, here's what I'll say in response to that
  • [40:05] Becca: I
  • [40:09] Becca: did not have an orgasm from sex until I was about 27.
  • [40:12] Becca: I definitely had orgasms from masturbating,
  • [40:18] Becca: but not from sex. And that was about the time that I entered the kink scene.
  • [40:24] Becca: And what changed for me was I learned from those people
  • [40:25] Becca: and
  • [40:27] Becca: how, like,
  • [40:32] Becca: how to have a conversation for, like, what I want and what
  • [40:34] Becca: makes me come.
  • [40:37] Becca: And like
  • [40:43] Becca: I had many sexual pleasures, sexual partners
  • [40:48] Becca: from whom I derive sexual pleasure before that time,
  • [40:54] Becca: and I know that they had orgasms. Um, but so
  • [40:57] Becca: so, yeah, I think,
  • [41:05] Becca: as the title of this show is, your mileage may vary like it's easier because of culture because of whatever.
  • [41:07] Becca: For
  • [41:10] Becca: people with penises, to have
  • [41:14] Becca: orgasms in a kind of
  • [41:17] Becca: like random hookup
  • [41:20] Becca: than it is for people with vaginas.
  • [41:23] Keith: Sure, Okay, we'll go ahead. I think.
  • [41:27] Mike: Yeah, I think that Keith is partly getting at this idea of, like
  • [41:29] Mike: I, um
  • [41:41] Mike: that as society is currently constructed, if you decide to kind of go down the path of exploring kinks, there's something you're leaving behind. As society is currently constructed in the sense that, like
  • [41:47] Mike: there's a bunch of like, the vast majority of people are, probably while they may have internally a kink or pretty vanilla in their lives.
  • [41:48] Mike: And there's certain
  • [41:53] Mike: life choices that probably you're leaving behind when you do that. To some extent,
  • [41:54] Mike: um,
  • [42:11] Mike: I'm imagining that, like what you think would be a better way for society. Work to work is for people to stop doing that and just to basically say, like, look like everybody should explore their kinks. And it doesn't actually prevent society from function Like, I think there's some notion out there that, like if everybody does this stuff, like, who's going to like, you know,
  • [42:17] Mike: how will society function right? I mean, there's some sort of, like, conservative notion there, and I think you don't think so.
  • [42:22] Becca: Um, there's some conservative notion that kink is
  • [42:27] Becca: mutually exclusive from like a nuclear family.
  • [42:33] Mike: Yeah, something like that. Something like, Yeah. How is somebody going to have, like, the sort of Orton? Yeah, I figured you would say
  • [42:39] Becca: that. Yeah, I know. I know plenty of people who are in the scene who have, like, entire kids and
  • [42:42] Becca: day jobs.
  • [42:43] Becca: It's not hard, but
  • [42:54] Mike: you don't think that for example. But you don't think, for example, if you are married and have kids that having one or both of the people in the marriage, like having sex with much of other people, is destabilizing,
  • [43:08] Becca: Um, to the marriage depends on the marriage. And there's plenty of people who are entirely vanilla who do that. And some of them do it consensually. And some of them do it through cheating and like, What's better?
  • [43:09] Mike: Sure,
  • [43:11] Mike: I agree with that.
  • [43:20] Mike: Yeah, but it seems it does. So I think there's this notion that, like this is you're playing with fire. It's like you have this thing that's like a kryptonite for society. Like if you're like
  • [43:26] Becca: slippery slope kind of argument, like if you smoke a joint today, you're going to be doing heroin Tomorrow
  • [43:34] Becca: we know that that's bullshit about drugs. Why can't we know that it's bullshit about sex and kink?
  • [43:35] Keith: It's true.
  • [43:43] Keith: Do you think that as people explore more, I'm just asking the question. I think I agree with the analogy, but
  • [43:47] Keith: yeah, do people
  • [43:50] Keith: like okay with age play,
  • [43:50] Becca: you
  • [44:03] Keith: can imagine like a slippery slope. There is dangerous right, um, and setting up boundaries there is pretty important. And I'm guessing the people that are engaging in that, um, ethically are mindful of that. And careful.
  • [44:04] Keith: Um,
  • [44:05] Keith: but
  • [44:23] Keith: yeah, So I can imagine an issue there. Um, I mean, you can imagine an issue with getting into, like, really strong, dominant stuff where, like, you know, you keep needing more, keep needing more. Um, in your experience, and like what the people you've talked to do most people find sort of like an upper limit on on where they where things are.
  • [44:25] Keith: Um,
  • [44:28] Becca: yeah, um, I think that
  • [44:31] Becca: people find,
  • [44:50] Becca: well, people grow and change and what they're into five years ago and what they're into today morphs. And I don't think it's necessarily It always morphs in a direction of quote unquote more extreme. It just morphs into a direction of like, Oh, maybe yesterday I was really into rope. But like,
  • [44:54] Becca: five years from now, I'm going to really be into
  • [44:58] Becca: leather. Who knows? Um and
  • [45:00] Becca: that, like
  • [45:10] Becca: having that cornucopia to draw from to me is an advantage, because a lot of people talk about like in marriages that they get sale. They get bored, they get
  • [45:14] Becca: to a place where they're not having sex with their partners
  • [45:20] Becca: because it's always the same. Wrote situation over and over again. And it's like, Why would I do that?
  • [45:21] Becca: And
  • [45:24] Becca: so if you have a
  • [45:34] Becca: larger selection from which to draw than your ability to achieve, novelty is greater and people do crave novelty.
  • [45:42] Becca: So I think and you know, there is some danger in any capacity for people kind of
  • [45:45] Becca: doing things that are illegal or harmful to others.
  • [45:47] Becca: Um,
  • [45:52] Becca: and I'll say again like, I don't think that's exclusive to kink.
  • [45:53] Keith: Yeah, I think
  • [45:56] Keith: I think that's right. Yeah. I mean,
  • [45:59] Keith: yeah. So it seems like,
  • [46:00] Keith: Yeah, like
  • [46:21] Keith: you're acknowledging. Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, you're acknowledging some potential downsides, right? So, like, as you get into this, it might sort of closed doors to some people who are, like, exclusively, only considering vanilla stuff. And there is some risk of, like, some sort of slippery slope. Or like, you know, somebody discovers their, you know, into pedophilia or into, like, you know, actual
  • [46:41] Keith: sort of non consensual physical abuse. But those risks are tiny in general and are sort of outweighed by yeah, the gains from having a more uh, you know, fulfilled lifestyle and being able to experience more consistent types of pleasure and
  • [46:43] Keith: things like that.
  • [46:45] Becca: Yeah, to me,
  • [46:48] Becca: to me. So
  • [46:57] Becca: having kink and having the knowledge of other Gangsters to learn from about how to do
  • [47:04] Becca: what's your fantasy, like in your head in a way that's consensual to, like, engage other people with it
  • [47:06] Becca: is
  • [47:09] Becca: safer.
  • [47:12] Becca: And so
  • [47:14] Becca: then you don't.
  • [47:21] Becca: Then then you can kind of channel that towards the people who want to receive it rather than
  • [47:27] Becca: raining it upon people who are un consenting or who don't have, like the
  • [47:28] Becca: who just don't
  • [47:33] Becca: know whether or not they want it and that they're traumatized after they experience because they didn't know
  • [47:35] Becca: right,
  • [47:37] Mike: if your kink is to rein it on people,
  • [47:42] Becca: yeah, I mean, if your kink is to be sadistic
  • [47:46] Becca: and to be statistic at people who are
  • [47:54] Becca: not consenting, then I don't know if that's a kink, or if that's just like a desire to harm.
  • [47:56] Keith: Yeah, fair enough.
  • [47:57] Mike: Um,
  • [47:59] Keith: okay, can you
  • [48:02] Keith: maybe give a couple tips for
  • [48:12] Keith: I feel like that's probably in your wheelhouse for people who are looking to explore this more like their organizations or websites Or like how do you suggest people?
  • [48:18] Becca: Oh, yeah, definitely. That's in my wheelhouse. Yeah, well, despite, despite my mm
  • [48:26] Becca: equivalence towards felt life, I do think that that life is a great resource for people who are looking to get into this community.
  • [48:38] Becca: Um, and through fat life, you can find also, if you're in the Bay Area, there's a There's a thing called a robe a er obey. That is a calendar of, like, all of the
  • [48:40] Becca: kink scene events that
  • [48:47] Becca: happened in the Bay area. Um, I don't know if that exists in other places. Probably There's something similar, but I just don't know about it.
  • [48:49] Becca: Um,
  • [49:01] Becca: there's an organization called Dark Odyssey that hosts a lot of events around the country like conventions, so you can check out dark Odyssey if you wanted to.
  • [49:03] Becca: Um,
  • [49:12] Becca: I I discovered that life through listening to Dan Savage Savage, savage love Cast King is not the only thing that he talks about, but he often does talk about kink.
  • [49:15] Becca: Um,
  • [49:16] Becca: and
  • [49:21] Becca: the best way in my experience to get
  • [49:24] Becca: involved is to go to an event.
  • [49:36] Becca: And one of the one of the breakthroughs that I had in my life was I was, like, lurking on felt life for a few years before I went to the TNG event that I went to, um, sometime in 2013,
  • [49:38] Becca: and
  • [49:40] Becca: I had been
  • [49:48] Becca: really shy to go to an event, trying to get involved some way because I was on my own.
  • [49:58] Keith: I think that's a reasonable I mean, I think it would be. I think it would be at least intellectually interesting to see a bondage party,
  • [50:06] Keith: and it might be sexually interesting to me. I'm not sure, but I would like to experience it, but it just feels like
  • [50:25] Keith: to me, I don't know if shy is the right word. I feel like it would be awkward like this, This notion of like you go in and, you know, you sort of get yourself some cheese and, you know, glass of chardonnay and, like standard, I don't know. It just feels a little bit. And then, especially if I went by myself and I just like, you know, the creepy guy in the corner like, Well, it just seems,
  • [50:40] Becca: Yeah, well, so here's ways to not be the creepy guy in the corner. Like I said, before I go to a social gathering first. So in the kink scene, there's things that are called munches and munches are, like,
  • [50:49] Becca: kind of contain social containers for people to meet and interact that are explicitly not play.
  • [51:01] Becca: Thinks like it's an event at which play is not going to happen so that you can interact as human beings and, like, know each other's names and be
  • [51:06] Becca: demonstrate that you aren't that creepy guy in the Yeah, like if you're
  • [51:11] Keith: hosting a party like this, inviting a stranger is actually probably quite risky, right?
  • [51:14] Becca: Like very few people,
  • [51:18] Becca: very few parties are just like open
  • [51:24] Becca: to Brando's like That's like, You kind of have to know that they're happening in order to get there.
  • [51:43] Becca: And the way that you know that they're happening is by being on fat life or by going to these to these play party there. Excuse me? These munches or happy hours like Happy Hour in this context is like a much, but you can drink alcohol Munches are often dry like a lot. There's actually a kind of like a
  • [51:54] Becca: pretty big faction within kink that is like we will not allow any drinking of alcohol or consuming of other mind altering substances at our at our parties.
  • [51:55] Becca: Um, and that's the way
  • [51:58] Keith: that that probably right?
  • [52:12] Becca: Yeah. I mean, I I think that it can be done safely where you can drink booze or smoke weed or whatever, and engage with this. But you have to know your own mind pretty well in order to do that. So, you know.
  • [52:14] Becca: Yeah.
  • [52:22] Becca: Um, but yeah. So that's that's my recommendation. Like, show up as a person in a social
  • [52:28] Becca: in a social context before you're trying to go to a play party.
  • [52:29] Becca: Okay,
  • [52:31] Keith: Okay.
  • [52:36] Becca: And to finish the story that I started, like, I was looking on life for a couple of years.
  • [52:52] Becca: And actually, so I went to Burning Man. 2013 was the first time I went to Burning Man and I There's a camp at Burning Man called suspended animation that, like, does broke bondage at Burning Man. Uh, and they were hosting some, like, event like come get tied up.
  • [52:57] Becca: Um, so I went there on, like, an afternoon. I hung around and I got
  • [53:03] Becca: I got suspended, Which is the thing that I had been dreaming about for years. but had not experienced.
  • [53:10] Becca: Um, and it like doing that. That experience was a great experience, really.
  • [53:11] Becca: Just like
  • [53:16] Becca: and to end, like pleasant cared for,
  • [53:17] Becca: you know,
  • [53:18] Becca: and
  • [53:20] Keith: done done in a way that wasn't painful, but
  • [53:22] Becca: was it was fun.
  • [53:24] Becca: Yeah. Did you feel
  • [53:28] Keith: Did you feel sexual arousal? Yeah, that's that's yeah.
  • [53:34] Becca: Not really. I mean, like, maybe a little bit like I was definitely, you know, like,
  • [53:39] Becca: kind of heightened sensory input. Like when you're
  • [53:43] Becca: any time that you're experiencing something like if you're
  • [53:46] Becca: I don't know, skydiving or whatever, It's kind of kind of like that.
  • [53:59] Becca: Like your your sense of being in the world is just is heightened. Um, but like, I definitely didn't have sex with anybody there when I was in rope or afterwards. And, um,
  • [54:07] Becca: once again, like, what is sex, But yes, nobody. Nobody touched my genitals. Um, And
  • [54:22] Becca: then having experienced that, I was like, Okay, I really do need to just go out in the world and be doing this. Um, so that's when I went to that event at TNG, which was a happy hour, and
  • [54:39] Becca: I just went by myself, and I was nervous about that because I don't really like going anywhere, just like by myself. Um, but I walked in and somebody greeted me and introduced me to other people. And within
  • [54:43] Becca: 15 minutes, I was totally comfortable, and I was making friends.
  • [54:46] Keith: Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we have the
  • [54:48] Keith: privilege of living in,
  • [54:50] Keith: you know, pretty open minded
  • [54:58] Keith: West Coast cities, right? Not everyone has that kind of stuff, But for those that do and who are interested, it seems like there's a pretty,
  • [55:06] Keith: you know, comfortable path to getting involved. So Mike had to drop off. Is there anything else you want to add? You mentioned? Um, an event, I think.
  • [55:21] Becca: Oh, yeah. Um, yeah. So this coming Thursday, March 18th, I will be moderating a panel called Sex Work de Crim One. Oh, one which is going to be all about What is the current status of the
  • [55:28] Becca: movement to decriminalize sex work And what, you know, What do we need to do next to actually make that a reality?
  • [55:34] Becca: Um, and that is being hosted by the sex positive Democratic Club of San Francisco.
  • [55:35] Becca: Um,
  • [55:43] Becca: if you have show notes, I can send you a link to the Facebook event, and you can publicise it for your for your listeners. Everybody is welcome. It's gonna be on Zoom.
  • [55:45] Keith: Okay? Yeah. I was wondering if it was online.
  • [55:48] Becca: Yes, 7 p.m. Pacific time.
  • [55:50] Becca: Okay. Um,
  • [56:00] Becca: yeah, we have a good We have a good set of Panelists who are going to be there. Also, Chase Chase a Boutin. The district attorney for San Francisco is going to pop by.
  • [56:02] Becca: Uh, so it's legit, man.
  • [56:07] Keith: Okay, cool. Do you want to mention your podcast again? And your socials if you want to.
  • [56:23] Becca: Yeah. All right. So my podcast is called Inter Traction ALS. It's like intersectional, But with trek in the middle, As I said before, it's an intersectional feminist investigation of Star Trek. Uh, and you can find it at intersectional dot com. Um, also, we're, like, at
  • [56:28] Becca: at intersectional on instagram and Facebook.
  • [56:39] Becca: Um, so yeah, check us out if you want my voice talking about Star Trek a lot along with my co host, right? Like we are all about it.
  • [56:45] Keith: Okay, great. Thank you so much for joining us. This was really informational. I really appreciate it.
  • [56:53] Becca: Hey, I'm always I'm really grateful to have the opportunity to spread the word about this because I really believe that like
  • [57:03] Becca: people getting tuned into their kinks and learning how to do them from people who are knowledgeable and you have to develop the skills, it's like
  • [57:04] Becca: like the best thing.
  • [57:14] Keith: Good. Um, so thanks again. So this was Episode 31 of your mileage may vary if you feel so inclined. Subscribe rate and review us. Pretty please.