YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary Podcast

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Episode 33: Guest Emma, Animated Porn, Real Female Orgasms, Lesbian Sex, Vibrators, Strap-ons, Blowjob Expectations, Facesitting

Team YMMV | 4-2-2021 | 1:07:47

Read The Transcript

Guest Emma explores some important questions with us. Mike asks her if she "does anal," and we explore details of her sexual experiences.

Importantly, Emma discloses a significant difference between the orgasms she has with vibrators and with men. (Are the latter actually orgasms?)

She describes for us some of the lesbian encounters she has experienced, and what it was like to be "on top" with a man giving her oral (she enjoyed it).

We also watch some animated porn, which Mike thinks is pretty realistic, but Emma and Keith beg to differ.

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/33/animated

https://ymmv.me/33/questionable-orgasm

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[0:03] Emma: like for as long as like, I've been sexually active.
[0:09] Emma: And especially in casual settings. There's just kind of always this expectation that, like if you fuck a guy, you have to blow
[0:16] Mike: him when you say you have to blow him, you mean blow him to completion? No, but like, just put it in your mouth. Yeah, You
[0:20] Emma: have to do something.
[0:34] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage. May vary. We talk about sex and relationships. I'm Keith. My co host is the incomparable Mike. Hello, Mike. Hello. And believe it or not, we have persuaded yet another woman to come on our show. Welcome, Emma.
[0:36] Emma: Hello. Thank you for having me.
[0:37] Keith: Yes, we're
[0:43] Keith: We're excited to have you here. We're going to get into your relationship to the program a little bit later, but,
[1:02] Keith: uh, you know the routine here. But for our newer listeners, we begin our episodes with a viewing of porn that Mike provides us. After that, we sort of go wherever the conversation meanders. But we often use the sex subreddit for conversation prompts. So let's get to it. Uh, Mike, what do we have today?
[1:10] Mike: Okay. As usual, we have two videos and as usual, The links will be in the show notes so people can follow along. We'll watch them, and
[1:19] Mike: I'll sort of describe the action, and then we can discuss them afterward. I think each one is under a minute of content. So nothing major.
[1:23] Mike: Um, yeah. So I don't wake you up the first one when you're ready, and, uh, count it down.
[1:26] Keith: I have it. Are you ready, Emma?
[1:28] Mike: Okay. All right, I'm going to stop. A minute.
[1:29] Mike: 30 seconds. All
[1:35] Keith: right. I'm going to start this in 321 starting.
[1:46] Mike: So this one is curious because it's a young lady in a swimming pool, but, uh, something strange about it, and she lift herself up and you can see her naked. But cameras, is it?
[1:51] Mike: I think that she's zooming in on it, and it's, uh,
[2:00] Mike: uh, sort of a vagina vulva sort of thing you're seeing zoomed in and out now she's standing up. She spent over and she stands up fully
[2:06] Mike: and you're just seeing her feet now. And now it zooms up to her and you see her front,
[2:11] Mike: the lower half naked and someone's offering her her bikini bottom in that stand
[2:21] Mike: um So the thing I thought was compelling about this is that, um I thought that this animal Yes, of course, it's a three D. It's like Toy Story, except much much, much more realistic.
[2:23] Mike: Um, and
[2:24] Mike: I
[2:30] Mike: when I saw this. I mean, first of all, it's clearly, in my view, supposed to be an underage person.
[2:35] Mike: Uh, let's let's just assume for the sake of the show that she's 18, so we don't have to
[2:38] Mike: litigate that side of the issue.
[2:38] Mike: Um,
[2:42] Mike: I think it's highly likely that
[2:44] Mike: this will replace porn.
[2:47] Mike: Like, I think I could masturbate to this
[2:51] Mike: forgetting about her being underage. That's not the important point. The important point here is that
[2:53] Mike: I think that,
[2:54] Mike: um,
[3:01] Mike: it's getting to the point where it's realistic enough that I don't think it would matter visually for me, that it's not real.
[3:02] Mike: Yeah.
[3:03] Keith: Um,
[3:06] Keith: let me think. Here.
[3:13] Keith: Uh, yeah, whatever. So three D renderings like this have been getting better throughout the years.
[3:14] Keith: I
[3:18] Keith: occasionally masturbate to porn like this.
[3:25] Keith: Okay, Yeah. I mean, it's
[3:31] Keith: I don't know if I'm proud of it or not, but the quality of the rendering is
[3:33] Keith: really,
[3:39] Keith: really good. Like who's making these three D models? I mean, they're very anatomically,
[3:41] Keith: um,
[3:42] Keith: strong and
[3:46] Mike: well, I saw Keith. I saw a, uh,
[3:52] Mike: at least in terms of the motion, they can use motion capture, right, So they can. So I've seen there's a woman who makes
[3:57] Mike: videos that I saw where she basically has a lot of followers. And she
[4:01] Mike: does motion capture and changes her appearance on them. Uh,
[4:04] Mike: and you know, it's just your standard sort of
[4:14] Mike: male audience fair checking out a woman, but it's actually an animated version of her for the most part. So I mean, this is like a thing that's pretty pretty out there. A pretty, pretty capable pretty pretty available
[4:18] Mike: When you when you masturbate to this, Keith, do you?
[4:36] Mike: Is it interspersed among I mean, hey, I'm curious where you find this stuff and be Is it do you like? Is Thursday like, animated chick day? Or is it sort of like Like what? How do you? Because I do not consume this kind. Although I'm now intrigued.
[4:40] Keith: Have Have you seen this before? Emma, Have you seen this before? This kind of
[4:45] Emma: thing? I've seen it before like I would never masturbate. So
[4:47] Keith: you have not gone down this rabbit
[4:50] Emma: hole. I don't really have any interest.
[5:00] Mike: Wait a minute. You don't have any. So there's like a philosophical distinction. But let's say that it was realistic enough looking that it was actually hard to tell that it was animated. Do you think you would care?
[5:02] Emma: Um,
[5:05] Emma: it would have to be, like, so good that I
[5:16] Emma: actually couldn't tell it was laminated. So it's like I have nothing, I guess on principle, like about not masturbating to like three D porn or like three D rendered porn. It's just
[5:20] Emma: I don't know, I think, because it's like so obviously not real. There's just
[5:22] Emma: it doesn't appeal to me on any level.
[5:27] Mike: I don't think this is obviously not real. I think this is like,
[5:32] Mike: Yes, if you spend some time looking at it, it's obviously not real, but like it takes a second.
[5:36] Emma: I don't Yeah,
[5:44] Keith: I think it's pretty obvious what is but what is obviously mean. Okay, right, so you guys know what the uncanny Valley is, right? It's It's when
[5:45] Keith: yeah, there's
[5:51] Keith: a rendering is close enough to reality that it's almost sort of creepy, like your brain
[5:55] Keith: has this reaction to it. That makes it sort of
[5:57] Keith: I don't know what the
[5:59] Keith: spin out or something.
[6:02] Keith: This does not cause that
[6:09] Keith: reaction to me. So I don't know if it's far enough away from being very close or if it's so close that, like, the uncanny Valley, no longer exists.
[6:11] Emma: I mean, I think
[6:13] Emma: the former would be my guess.
[6:18] Emma: Like, it's just so obviously not real that, like you're not even kind of approaching that threshold.
[6:25] Keith: Yeah. Have either of you guys okay? Have you seen those? You know, there's, like, those comic books that are really popular in Asia.
[6:26] Keith: Um,
[6:32] Keith: of I think it's called anti. Does this event? I mean, pornographic definitional e.
[6:33] Emma: I believe it does.
[6:34] Emma: Okay,
[6:35] Keith: uh,
[6:37] Keith: have you guys ever
[6:40] Keith: masturbated to that?
[6:41] Keith: No.
[6:50] Keith: Okay. Me neither. Uh, interesting. Okay. Well, I mean, this is interesting, right? So I have,
[6:52] Keith: um
[6:55] Keith: it can be sort of compelling. Um,
[7:05] Mike: but that stuff is, like is like, cartoonish, right? It's clearly and I just don't know what to tell you. Like I just disagree with Emma. I don't think this is obviously not real. I think that if if you were
[7:09] Mike: I'm not sure. Helmet. Okay, There's some distance away from this that you'd have to be
[7:21] Mike: okay if you were 100 ft away from this or whatever 50 ft away from this, you you would not be able to tell me that it was not real. And so it's like there's this question of, like, how close do you have to be to be sure that it's not real? And like I think,
[7:25] Mike: yeah, this is much closer to realistic to me than
[7:32] Mike: then I think she's given credit for I think I think like the technology is very close to having this be indistinguishable from real.
[7:34] Mike: I'm not sure what the
[7:35] Mike: Yeah.
[7:40] Keith: I mean, they don't focus on her face much, but her face is not
[7:42] Keith: nearly as high quality.
[7:45] Keith: Right? Like that creates more of an uncanny valley for me than the rest of her
[7:51] Mike: body. Maybe it's but maybe that's on purpose, right? I mean, that's like the thing that this made me think immediately was like,
[7:59] Mike: Is this like a real issue? For like, the porn industry, like I mean, is this. If they're able to render something that's sufficiently realistic,
[8:01] Mike: like, how do you have a porn industry then?
[8:06] Keith: Well, and you can imagine video games incorporating rendering like this.
[8:09] Keith: I don't know if this kind of thing can be rendered in real time yet.
[8:21] Mike: Yeah, that's the issue. Like a porno video you could have a computer churn away on it for, you know, a week making the video. And so the quality can be really high. Um, maybe maybe the rate limiting step is like the artistry of
[8:25] Mike: building a facial model or something. My guess here, though, is that there
[8:29] Mike: not trying for a perfectly realistic model and that they could actually make it more realistic.
[8:35] Mike: Yeah, although, if you look at her, but if you look at her But there's actually like imperfections in it
[8:40] Mike: and, like the way the water rolls off of it is pretty realistic to me. Like the Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
[8:44] Keith: There's a small pimple on her left butt cheek.
[8:57] Mike: So you didn't answer the question, do you? Is this something where you like, have a day when you when you focus exclusively on this type of porn, is it something you mix in? Like what? What? What's the motivation here?
[9:00] Keith: I think
[9:05] Keith: let me think. I think what would happen is I would go to porn Hub or whatever.
[9:08] Keith: And sometimes it has, like the recommended videos.
[9:09] Keith: Mhm.
[9:12] Keith: And sometimes it will recommend one of these,
[9:20] Keith: you know, cartoon or three D renderings. And then once you once you click on that, you know it recommends you more. And then you sort of end up on the
[9:23] Keith: in the feedback loop where eventually you end up on something like this.
[9:27] Keith: I don't think I you know, you know, it's the
[9:32] Keith: third Wednesday of the month and you know, it's three d rendering
[9:39] Mike: day. Yeah. No, it's not. It sounds like it's like it's, like, sort of second to your content that you'll use If you can't find anything that makes sense.
[9:39] Keith: Yeah.
[9:44] Keith: Um, but it makes me wonder. Secondary. It's different. It's different.
[9:52] Mike: Alright. Yeah, well, maybe we should move on to the second porn, which I think will be more a female area of expertise, for sure.
[9:53] Mike: Um
[9:57] Mike: and this one is also in the show notes, but
[10:07] Mike: you have to scroll forward to one hour, one hour. It's a long video. One hour, 25 minutes and 20 seconds. We'll mention that the show notes to this is
[10:10] Keith: a 1 24 10 or 1 24 20.
[10:18] Mike: Do I have in the wrong spot? No. 1. 24 10. My bad 1. 24 10. Okay, forget what I just said. 1 24 10.
[10:19] Mike: Um
[10:30] Mike: and, uh, this is a recording of a cam girl. In case people don't know. You can, uh, search If you're watching a camgirl and chatter bait or whatever, you can actually,
[10:32] Mike: um, search
[10:37] Mike: their name their stage name online and often find videos of them. That's how I ran across this,
[10:40] Mike: and,
[10:45] Mike: yeah, I did not watch the entire thing. I sort of as men typically do. Kind of went through,
[10:46] Mike: um
[10:50] Mike: went quickly through it scanning and found this interesting piece of content. So anyway, she counted to
[10:59] Keith: go. You say? Okay, I'm cute up. Emma, are you queued up? All right. 321 Starting.
[11:13] Mike: So it's a woman with a black vibrator vibrating her clit. You're sort of in a pelvic of you here between her legs and she sort of she sort of making noises with her. She's
[11:16] Mike: She's playing to the audience a little with the sound. She's making,
[11:19] Mike: um, She's sort of vibrating herself and looking down.
[11:22] Keith: She turned it up. It's faster now.
[11:23] Mike: Okay.
[11:26] Mike: Um,
[11:28] Mike: yeah. I mean, she's
[11:35] Mike: She seems like she's close to climaxing. Maybe from the sound she's making.
[11:37] Mike: Do you believe she is?
[11:40] Mike: Maybe you've seen that she hasn't yet.
[11:43] Mike: Here. She flicked her hand, and she's
[11:48] Mike: She's trying to really make it happen with some fingers inside. And here she goes.
[11:52] Mike: Okay, now you see.
[11:55] Mike: No, she's still having trouble doing it.
[11:56] Emma: She's
[11:58] Keith: frustrated with herself. Close.
[12:03] Mike: Yeah.
[12:07] Keith: How long does this continue for Mike?
[12:15] Mike: Uh, there it goes. There it goes. We got to it. You see that? She appears to be okay having an orgasm. And you might have actually missed it, because you were. Yeah,
[12:20] Mike: we queued up a little earlier than now. She's actually pushing in and out the vibrator.
[12:22] Mike: Um,
[12:23] Mike: the important thing
[12:26] Mike: to see there
[12:34] Mike: and the composite there is that you actually saw the contractions of her anus and vagina
[12:35] Mike: start.
[12:41] Mike: And then only at the end of the contractions did she give a sort of verbal reaction
[12:45] Mike: as if she was orgasm ng. And I found that really interesting.
[12:51] Mike: You might want to like, if you don't. If you didn't notice what I'm saying, you could go back like a couple seconds and watch the last go back a couple of
[12:53] Keith: seconds here, but it's a little tricky. This this video
[12:55] Mike: is such a large video that
[12:57] Keith: it's
[13:02] Mike: hard to get past the
[13:04] Keith: Yeah. Okay, Alright. I see. All right. So she
[13:08] Keith: there's some contractions, and then she says, uh and I quote,
[13:11] Mike: See
[13:13] Keith: Right. Uh
[13:14] Keith: um
[13:18] Mike: Okay, so it makes me wonder, like, what's going on there?
[13:20] Keith: Do you have any thoughts on this?
[13:24] Emma: Do I have any thoughts on this? Yeah, um,
[13:34] Emma: I don't I think it could be genuine. I think it probably could be like the start of maybe like a really, like, kind of, like, rapid orgasm that maybe, like, couldn't be sustained.
[13:36] Emma: Um,
[13:40] Emma: yeah, it seems kosher to me. I don't know. What do you guys think?
[13:46] Mike: Well, isn't your experience usually that the build up and release of pleasure happens before
[13:50] Mike: the contractions? Not after? No.
[13:51] Mike: Like Okay, so tell
[13:55] Emma: us more. Well, I think you can go either way. Um,
[13:58] Emma: like, definitely before it's, like, usually kind of the lead up.
[14:06] Emma: But then, like after you can kind of have these. Like or even during these kind of spasms. I feel like
[14:07] Emma: that are just
[14:13] Emma: like energy. Maybe that's wasted. I don't really know how it works, but I've experienced that,
[14:14] Emma: Um,
[14:26] Emma: yeah. Or like I mean, I've had orgasms that had, like, no contraction at all. It just kind of depends on, like, the intensity of the orgasm. I think it. I think it varies a lot like from person to person. And also just, like encounter to encounter
[14:30] Keith: What does an orgasm with no contractions
[14:35] Keith: feel like in your brain and
[14:37] Keith: in your for China?
[14:42] Emma: It's just I mean, it's usually like a more like, slow, sustained
[14:52] Emma: kind of experience. So I feel like it like you get to the same point eventually, but it's just not like with the same kind of, like intensity
[14:53] Emma: all at once.
[14:58] Mike: Okay, but you don't okay, But I mean, like, so you've obviously, uh, you're experienced enough to have like, uh,
[15:01] Mike: experienced or seen witnessed
[15:03] Mike: many male orgasms.
[15:11] Mike: Uh, and so the male orgasm is extremely simple in the sense that are sorry. I should say it's It tends to be very, um,
[15:19] Mike: follow a standard script, right? I mean, there's the guy visibly experiences a certain amount of pleasure. And then, like,
[15:26] Mike: toward the end of that, or towards the middle to the end, like you have these contractions that are obvious that happened his Penis and then
[15:31] Mike: sort of resolves. You're saying that your experience of orgasm is, like, fundamentally different from that? Is that right?
[15:35] Emma: I mean, it can be, Yes, I would say that.
[15:42] Mike: Okay. Do you ever have organisms that you think? Do you ever have orgasms that you think basically follow the same script as the male one?
[15:44] Emma: Yeah, I think so.
[15:49] Emma: But that's I wouldn't say that like the majority of the orgasms that I have. But it's like definitely some of them.
[15:53] Keith: Are they the best or most intensive? The orgasms you have?
[16:00] Emma: Mm. You know, I would say they're probably the most intense, but I wouldn't say they're the best.
[16:02] Keith: What? What's the difference?
[16:13] Emma: I think I mean, I don't know. Maybe this is like a very like female thing, or maybe it's just a me thing, but like sometimes like very intense orgasms that are like
[16:16] Emma: following just kind of like a lot of stimulation,
[16:22] Emma: that's just like, kind of frequent and all at once like that's, like, so overstimulating
[16:24] Emma: that it's like almost unpleasant and like,
[16:32] Emma: obviously it's like still an orgasm, so it's not wholly unpleasant, but it's not as pleasant as if like it had just kind of been
[16:34] Emma: slower.
[16:35] Keith: Mhm.
[16:39] Keith: Is there an analogy there for men like, is it when somebody's
[16:40] Keith: just,
[16:41] Keith: you know,
[16:45] Keith: still trying to
[16:48] Keith: jerk you off? Like Right? Yeah, I don't think there is an analogy for men,
[16:51] Emma: probably something similar to that,
[16:55] Emma: Like just like anything that would be like, really overstimulating.
[16:57] Emma: I don't know what,
[17:01] Emma: but like in a way that's like almost painful.
[17:02] Keith: I don't know if that
[17:05] Keith: I don't know if there's an analogy. Mike.
[17:22] Mike: So are you. Are you? Are you taking the position that, like in a substantial percentage of the time you orgasm? It's not the say 30 seconds or whatever. Whatever period of time it is that you're calling the orgasm is not in a substantial percentage of the time. It's not that different than your experience before and after. It's not like this totally different experience.
[17:24] Emma: No, that's not what I'm saying.
[17:34] Emma: I'm saying it's different. I just doesn't, like, follow the same script all the time. So there's, like, not always like, this kind of, like, intense like sequence of like,
[17:39] Emma: your eyes are like contractions or like this, like, very kind of distinct
[17:42] Emma: feeling. Like it.
[17:48] Emma: It is the same feeling. Always. It just varies in intensity and, like, kind of how quickly
[17:51] Emma: that comes about.
[17:57] Mike: So when you have one that does not follow that script, do you ever ask yourself like, Was that actually an orgasm?
[17:58] Mike: No, There it is.
[18:02] Emma: No. And I knew this question was coming fun.
[18:03] Keith: Now,
[18:09] Mike: why don't you ask yourself that? Like, I mean, it would be Well, I mean, like, for example, if a guy
[18:16] Mike: had a, you know, a pleasurable feeling. But no, he didn't ejaculate. Say, I think he would naturally ask himself like, Was that an orgasm?
[18:24] Mike: It would be like a normal question to ask. So why don't why don't you think you ask that to yourself? You're just so clear that, like, there's no
[18:27] Mike: yeah, in your mind. It's so clear that you're just like, Oh, this is exactly definitely what happened here
[18:30] Emma: because it's like it's just like this. Very
[18:36] Emma: like, distinct like, kind of like feeling and, like, clarity
[18:38] Emma: that like,
[18:44] Emma: Like, I don't know, Like what? It just when it happens, like, you know, that it's happened like I don't really question
[18:50] Keith: Do you think there is their luggage? Okay, Good. Do you think there are some people who could be
[18:53] Keith: confused on this topic
[18:57] Emma: about, like, whether or not they had an orgasm? Yes, of course.
[18:59] Keith: Okay, so
[19:02] Keith: what is the distinct
[19:05] Keith: thing that's occurring?
[19:07] Emma: I mean,
[19:12] Emma: I don't I like I I don't really know it to be completely honest. I mean, like, I have, like,
[19:18] Emma: I have, like certain, I guess, like biofeedback. That kind of clues me in.
[19:20] Emma: Um,
[19:22] Emma: like generally I know, like if my like
[19:33] Emma: clitoris is, like, so sensitive that I, like, literally can't like the thought of touching it is just horrible, like, that's usually kind of a tip off. And then there's, like,
[19:36] Emma: you know, kind of other things. But
[19:41] Emma: I will say it is one of those things that when I was like, younger and like, more inexperienced,
[19:53] Emma: I like thought I'd been like having orgasms with partners. And then it wasn't until, like I got a vibrator that I was like, Oh, like that's what that's supposed to feel like.
[20:03] Emma: But I will say like, I kind of had never had, like, the reassurance that I had been having orgasms until that moment. And then I was just, like, Okay, like that's what it is.
[20:04] Keith: Okay, so there was
[20:13] Mike: used to use a vibrator. Do you find that you tend to have one that follows the script that we described, or even with a vibrator? Does it
[20:25] Mike: have, like, this sort of quality of Sometimes the pleasure happens here. Sometimes there. Sometimes there's a contraction there. Like a few orders with the vibrator. Is it like, is it like, Is it more likely to be
[20:27] Mike: similar to the male experience?
[20:30] Emma: I think that's accurate. And yeah.
[20:43] Mike: Okay, So this is going What would you say to somebody? I know what you would say. You're just going to say fuck off, but like, what? Would you But But like, you can imagine somebody coming back and saying Okay. So the vibrator ones are orgasms, and the other thing you're talking about is not an orgasm,
[20:45] Mike: which is Yeah. What? I would say that's the position. Okay,
[20:47] Emma: Well, alright.
[20:50] Mike: Is your response. Do you have any other response to that? The other than fuck off.
[20:54] Emma: I mean, no, that's about it.
[20:56] Keith: Okay. Yeah. There's some
[21:06] Mike: interesting do you ever have, do you when you use a vibrate? Did you ever have these more sort of diffuse experiences or is it or the vibrators? That's sort of the magic you do.
[21:10] Emma: I totally do. Yeah, I would say it's like at a lower
[21:20] Emma: like frequency than not, but it's still definitely happens, because I think a lot of it is like, not even necessarily, like stimulation dependent. It has more to do with, like,
[21:23] Emma: I don't know, like how tired I am or like how turned on I am, or
[21:26] Emma: like quickly, I want to get things over with. There's a lot of other
[21:32] Mike: factors. So, Keith, I mean, one of things I would say for the guys experience here is that it's like in some ways
[21:39] Mike: women have the luxury of being able to decide what they want to call an orgasm, and not, and men sort of don't right, because
[21:40] Mike: with a guy there is like,
[21:48] Mike: Yeah, it's just like there are these other physiological processes that accompany it. But like as a man like And I think Keith is feel has a similar experience. Like
[21:58] Mike: there are definitely things that happen that feel really good that are not orgasms during sex or and as a guy, you like to find them very black and white in this way, because of
[21:59] Mike: the mail function, right,
[22:03] Mike: Um and so, like, it's it makes sense to me that there can be a
[22:13] Mike: wide set of experiences. It's just like, yeah, guy is going to have a tendency to make it very black and white. And on some level, the answer could just be like, who cares? Why does it even matter? Yeah, but it sounds like
[22:22] Keith: what Emma was saying, man Splain to her. What I think she said, is something like
[22:28] Keith: there was some point in her life after which she was able to recognize a binary Yes, no, on orgasms,
[22:30] Keith: like before, which
[22:34] Keith: there were things happening,
[22:36] Keith: none of which were orgasms. Is that right?
[22:38] Emma: Yeah. I mean, like,
[22:43] Emma: honestly probably. But I also, like, still kind of had, like, this murkiness as to like
[22:48] Emma: Well, like I think this is what it is, but I'm not really sure. And then there was, like, a definitive point where I was like Okay,
[22:53] Keith: okay. Okay. And now, okay. And then you sort of learn what the line is.
[23:01] Keith: And then ever since then, you feel like you can accurately identify her guest MC experiences
[23:05] Keith: that many of which Mike would claim are not orgasms,
[23:11] Mike: is that it doesn't matter. On some level, I mean, who cares, Right, but yeah.
[23:13] Mike: Do you find that, um,
[23:14] Mike: are there men
[23:27] Mike: or I guess, without vibrator. But either way are they're partnered or solo non vibrator experiences where you're able to generate the same feeling as with the vibrator. Something you were not able to do before first getting a vibrators, or is there really like the vibrator experience in the non vibrator
[23:37] Emma: experience? There really is, like, I hate to say it because it's, I think, a frustrating thing for a lot of women or not, but yeah, that's very accurate.
[23:41] Mike: So without so if you would. So if if you lived in 1700
[23:47] Mike: you're 1700 there were no vibrators, it's reasonably likely you would never have experienced an orgasm in your life. Right?
[23:49] Emma: I think that's probably true. Interesting.
[23:50] Emma: Okay,
[23:51] Emma: Yeah.
[23:52] Keith: I think
[24:02] Keith: we have another guest that said something. That sort of suggested that as well. Yeah, that sucks. Well, good thing it's 2021
[24:04] Keith: and we have electricity and motors.
[24:11] Mike: Well, Keith, do you want to Do you want to tell the audience more? About what? What? Why Amazon. The show?
[24:13] Mike: Sure.
[24:17] Keith: Uh, no. Emma. How What is your connection to the show?
[24:23] Emma: I started listening to the show in November. I think of 2020
[24:27] Emma: after Keith introduced me to it.
[24:30] Keith: How did we meet
[24:32] Emma: on a dating app?
[24:33] Keith: Which one?
[24:35] Emma: I don't recall there. I
[24:36] Keith: don't remember
[24:38] Mike: either. I do. I remember.
[24:41] Keith: No, no, it wasn't
[24:42] Keith: that one.
[24:45] Mike: It was No, no, no, I I was going to make one up, but go
[24:51] Keith: ahead. Okay. Yeah, it was tinder or bumble, probably.
[24:57] Mike: Or has the main ones. You guys, you guys are actually lovers.
[25:00] Mike: That's probably his term. Yeah, that's
[25:01] Keith: probably overstating
[25:02] Mike: our relationship. You're not
[25:07] Keith: haters.
[25:09] Mike: Uh,
[25:12] Mike: but not. But but you're now you're just friends.
[25:13] Emma: Yes. There.
[25:20] Mike: Yeah. Okay. So you were You're sort of ex. Uh, you dated a little. Yes,
[25:22] Mike: sure. Okay.
[25:27] Mike: So, Emma, you've had the pleasure of of experiencing some of these things with Keith?
[25:30] Mike: Yes, some of these sort of sexual experience.
[25:34] Keith: Millions and millions. Millions? Yes, that's
[25:39] Mike: cool. Is that the primary reason you wanted to come on the show to sort of talk about your sexual experiences with Keith?
[25:43] Emma: No, not at all.
[25:47] Keith: But unfortunately, bikes here too. Yeah,
[25:54] Mike: force that upon us. Well, you did say that you had some thoughts about the Keith's blowjob concern.
[25:58] Mike: You actually had a number of things. Both from that. And you're
[25:59] Mike: and your
[26:08] Mike: listening your encyclopedic knowledge of the show. Right? So maybe you maybe you'd like to talk about a couple of those things which you I mean, maybe we can talk about the blowjob thing first.
[26:13] Mike: So you you like our previous guest alley? You like our previous guest, Ali? Uh,
[26:22] Mike: um are perplexed by Keith's claim that blowjobs are somehow in position on the woman, and you actually enjoy giving them. Is that right?
[26:36] Emma: I mean, I wouldn't go that far. Um, I think they're I think they definitely can be an imposition. And I think a lot of women have that relationship with blowjobs for a good reason. Um,
[26:38] Mike: because I mean, what's the reason? Yeah, I don't
[26:42] Emma: know. Like for as long as, like, I've been sexually active,
[26:49] Emma: and I especially like casual settings. There's just, like, kind of always this expectation that, like if you fuck a guy, you have to blow him
[26:51] Emma: and not with me.
[26:53] Emma: It's very true
[26:57] Mike: when you say when you say you have to blow him, you mean blow him to completion? No.
[27:01] Emma: But like, just put it in your mouth, Yeah, you have to do something. But also like, I don't know. Why
[27:02] Mike: don't you
[27:08] Mike: Don't you think that in the 21st century there's also an expectation for the man to provide oral to the woman?
[27:09] Emma: No.
[27:16] Mike: Well, that's interesting. We can maybe touch on that later. Okay? So you don't So it's not your favorite activity, but you you're fine with it.
[27:21] Emma: I think that's fair. Yeah, but I think I can enjoy it
[27:23] Emma: more than at other times.
[27:24] Emma: What helps you enjoy?
[27:29] Keith: Okay, if it's obligatory,
[27:30] Emma: it's not
[27:34] Emma: well, I think generally anything that's obligatory is less appealing. Um,
[27:37] Emma: but it's also it's just like it's very dependent on, like,
[27:40] Emma: how much? I don't hate the person
[27:42] Emma: like the person like likable,
[27:48] Emma: not just beyond like a sexual element, then it's much more appealing.
[27:49] Mike: So do you
[27:51] Mike: give a lot of blow jobs to people you hate?
[27:53] Mike: Okay,
[27:58] Emma: I've given a lot of lots of people I wouldn't have dinner with.
[27:59] Mike: Why
[28:01] Emma: don't like just,
[28:07] Emma: you know, like promiscuous like early twenties, like
[28:13] Emma: I'm like. This is mostly about like one night stands. These aren't like people. I was regularly seeing that I disliked.
[28:19] Mike: So yeah, what's that all about? So I've talked about with male friends about this topic before, and
[28:28] Mike: so is it that you are hanging out with a guy. And there's some moment in the evening where there's just this expectation. You'll do this thing and you're kind of like all right, I'll do it like
[28:33] Mike: it's not that big of a deal. Like what? What, what? What goes on in your mind that makes you
[28:34] Mike: kind of go there
[28:35] Emma: like
[28:39] Emma: go to like, a blow or, like, go to like any type of like sexual encounter?
[28:56] Mike: Well, I'm imagining no. Well, I mean, let's talk about a blow job. It's narrow it to make it simpler, but I mean, you know, you said that there, guys, you wouldn't even go to dinner with, but you're blowing them. And so I'm thinking, that must be out of some sense of obligation. Or like I had a friend. I had a friend once who had a house in the
[29:02] Mike: in l. A with a pool. And it was a very nice house. And he told me that, uh, when
[29:09] Mike: he would invite a lady over a young woman over that he felt like she basically viewed as an obligation basically
[29:17] Mike: effectively to pay him back for inviting her over and letting him hang out her hang out there that she would she would give him a blow. And he complained about it, actually, because
[29:22] Mike: the obligation extended only to blow jobs and not to actual penetrative sex.
[29:28] Mike: What kind of funny is that? What's going on here? Or is it am I misunderstanding? I
[29:37] Emma: think that's honest. That's probably pretty fair. Um, I'm so I'm like, I'm younger than here, too. And I grew up basically, like in,
[29:44] Emma: like, you know, like on, you know, dating apps like tinder Bumble were around, like, basically since I became interested in dating,
[29:50] Emma: um, so I think with that came like kind of the
[29:59] Emma: the setup that dating was transactional or that, like if you went out with someone, there was some expectation that there would be like a sexual engagement of some sort.
[30:11] Emma: Um, obviously, that's like not a rule for dating apps, but I think as like a young kind of like, inexperienced woman that was dating people that were a lot older than me,
[30:14] Emma: I kind of just fell into that.
[30:20] Emma: That expectation. And I didn't even, like, question it after it happened, like several times,
[30:20] Emma: and
[30:22] Mike: that
[30:37] Mike: I'm a little curious about the dating guys a lot older than you. But let's stick on the topic here. The there. I assume there's no recipe reciprocity, right? Like there. There are no such requirement attaches on the guy, right? I mean, basically, what I'm imagining is you would go out on a date,
[30:38] Mike: and the guy would Somehow
[30:48] Mike: it would just become obvious that you were supposed to give him head. You would. And then that's the end. That's and then there would be no more sex with that person. Maybe never even see that person again. Is that right?
[30:51] Emma: Uh, no, I wouldn't say that is usually like
[31:01] Emma: there would be like some obvious cue, but like Okay, like, the interest now was, like, purely sexual. And that would be, like, give him head,
[31:03] Emma: Fuck him.
[31:09] Emma: Give him head again. Like like, having finished like that was usually it.
[31:10] Mike: So
[31:15] Mike: you would be like, you go to his place or your place. Okay? Right. So it's just like, Okay, I understand.
[31:21] Mike: Um I mean, at least if you're having penetrative sex like, there's some chance that you could enjoy it, right?
[31:36] Mike: Sure, this is interesting. So Keith's attitude. So Keith's attitude about blowjobs actually might be motivated partly by being on these dating apps, right? If there are these women having these extremely transactional experiences with men like Keith might be just a sensitive guy.
[31:40] Mike: Keith is a sensitive guy, and he might be kind of like
[31:44] Mike: where? Like, I might not notice that he notices. And he's like, Oh,
[31:49] Mike: these women don't want to be doing this because, like, this is how all the guys behave. Is that fair?
[31:49] Mike: I
[31:54] Emma: mean, I don't think that's what's going on, but sure. I mean, we can
[31:57] Mike: we can go. You don't think it's that Keith is sensitive. Can I can
[32:03] Keith: I can. I state my position before you guys decide. What they say
[32:10] Emma: is that, like that argument is squashed by like someone eagerly presenting themselves to him.
[32:13] Emma: And I'm still saying no.
[32:16] Mike: Well, he just doesn't believe you, but go ahead, Keith.
[32:20] Keith: That's that's right. Like I
[32:23] Keith: I don't Yeah, I don't believe
[32:29] Keith: when people say I really want to give you a look. Okay, look, all right, I can't believe it.
[32:31] Keith: It's just
[32:32] Keith: this, like
[32:41] Keith: persuasion Parade is kind of weird. Generally, it's weird that, like I can't just be like, yeah, let's go. But I feel like my position of
[32:46] Keith: yes, my bias that they may not be being completely honest about
[32:49] Keith: their desire to blow me
[32:53] Keith: is a reasonable bias, given what Emma has said here. And you
[32:55] Mike: know, it's like it's like
[32:56] Keith: a
[33:08] Mike: let's say that you liked getting massages. Getting massages is fine, but you find out that, like and this is true that, like a lot of massage parlors, just amount to fronts for prostitution, and you're not a big fan of that. For various reasons,
[33:13] Mike: you might kind of have a negative cast about getting massages, even in a situation where
[33:18] Mike: you know, you know, that's not what's going on, right? I mean, it might just basically, like, darken the whole thing for you.
[33:24] Keith: Yes, and I'm arguing that my my my bias is not unreasonable.
[33:30] Mike: Apparently not if the if the mean Emma's sort of confirming the bias in the sense that, like
[33:35] Mike: apparently, there's this, uh, it's like I see on
[33:41] Mike: trying to think a trope that you see on TV shows.
[33:57] Mike: Whatever I see it, I see it around. Is this trope of the guy basically pushing the girl's head down to his crotch? That's at a certain point, and apparently like, yeah, to me, that doesn't ring true. But you're saying it essentially does ring true. Like that's like what he does amounts. There's a lot of guys that they do. What they do amounts to that. It's the moral equivalent of
[34:02] Emma: that. I mean, or it's like, literally that yeah.
[34:08] Mike: Huh. Do they take when they were going to put your head down? Do they take their pants off first or do they wait till your heads down
[34:10] Emma: there? Not always.
[34:11] Emma: So
[34:14] Mike: do they want is the idea that
[34:18] Mike: the order of operations get her head there and then unzip really fast.
[34:20] Emma: Or, like, make her do it. Yeah,
[34:22] Mike: Make her do it.
[34:24] Mike: This doesn't sound very nice at all,
[34:26] Emma: Mom.
[34:33] Keith: Um but it's like, Yeah, it's like a gate or hurdle toward the main event, which may or may not be pleasurable.
[34:35] Keith: Yeah,
[34:36] Emma: it's possible for one person,
[34:38] Keith: but
[34:40] Keith: yeah,
[34:45] Keith: Why do you put yourself or do you do you still put yourself in situations like this, Do you think?
[34:48] Emma: No. No, I'm only talking about when I was like,
[34:52] Emma: like, barely legal. Like on dating apps like
[34:54] Mike: this is sounding pretty hot.
[34:57] Emma: Yeah, I'm sure it was for those that weren't
[35:03] Mike: really legal. Well, you know the reason why when you're I mean, I guess maybe
[35:18] Mike: male psychology, bifurcate or whatever it did switch. There's obviously can fan out in various ways. But a thing that makes it not hot actually is when you have too much exposure, as I have had in my life to women like you, who explained that it's not actually hot. And then you're like, Oh, you know. But if there's a man, you only
[35:27] Mike: you can find yourself to a certain set of information and you consumed primarily porn like you might be able to avoid the female perspective
[35:32] Mike: and then, uh, find it, find it really hot, right? I mean, like, she definitely wants to do this. I
[35:43] Emma: think in theory, it's really hot, Like some like, 18 year old college student, like, very sexually inexperienced, like, wants someone older to like,
[35:52] Emma: basically, like, play sex with, like, That's super hot. It's, I think, the kind of like how that plays out and the people
[35:55] Emma: that tend to be interested in that, um,
[36:01] Emma: that makes it, like, not hot. But of course, like in theory, that could be super hot.
[36:02] Mike: What would you rather have happen?
[36:15] Mike: So Okay, yeah, yeah. What? Actually, in that situation, What? What do you as the woman? What do you want to have happen? I mean, you do want to have sex with the guy like that's compelling to you at some point, but like what? Yeah, what should he do if he was trying to, like,
[36:18] Mike: actually make it a good experience for you?
[36:27] Emma: I think just like not being like forceful, as pathetic as that sounds like. That's a good strategy, Um,
[36:32] Emma: and like letting things like, kind of evolve like not rushing things. Um,
[36:35] Mike: I'm like thinking about don't you think there's a lot of
[36:38] Mike: don't you think there's a lot of guys that would then I mean, there's this
[36:42] Mike: whole notion of the red pill and there's a subreddit for it. Were guys like
[36:45] Mike: basically build their dating life around
[36:54] Mike: being forceful because there's this notion and the in cell involuntary celibate guys talk about this, too. They're like, Oh, if you're not forceful, then they'll women will just think you're,
[36:55] Mike: you know,
[37:02] Mike: data. You're not worth worthwhile. Yeah, your beta. And then they won't have sex with you anyway. I mean, you don't you don't You don't think that's true.
[37:03] Emma: I mean,
[37:12] Emma: this is interesting. This is like I feel like dipping into a lot of areas of my sex life, but I don't think there's anything wrong thing forceful. Um,
[37:13] Emma: yeah,
[37:19] Emma: I actually think like that's very hot, but it's only hot when it's consensual.
[37:25] Emma: Like if I've told somebody that I want them to be forceful or like I want them to do like some,
[37:29] Emma: like consensually non consensual act.
[37:32] Emma: That's fine, because that's like arranged.
[37:40] Emma: But it's like some just casual hookup that, like turns like, very aggressive for like, no reason. Like that's like,
[37:43] Emma: That's gross,
[37:48] Mike: right? What's a consensually, non consensual thing that someone could do to you?
[37:49] Emma: Mm.
[37:55] Mike: Has done. Like, what's the thing that you found hot? Or maybe Keith Did you with you? With me? Not to you? With
[37:58] Emma: you?
[38:03] Emma: Yeah. Like like giving like a really, like, rough blowjob. Or like,
[38:11] Emma: like, kind of like, controlling, like the speed of someone's like mouth against, Like, their Penis. Like that could be a consensual sexual thing.
[38:19] Mike: I'm assuming with Keith it was that he would force you to let him give you oral this really long period of time.
[38:22] Emma: That's
[38:27] Mike: good. He's like, Look, just wear this anime costume and then facing me.
[38:32] Keith: Yeah. I should not have revealed by my predilections for animal porn.
[38:35] Mike: I'm really interested.
[38:44] Mike: Um, yeah. I mean, along those lines, you mentioned that a previous guest, Ali, seemed too vanilla for you. Um, and you brought up a couple topics. Keith, what were the topics she brought up?
[38:52] Keith: I have a list here. Um, should I read the list and then we'll go. We'll go one by one. Is Yeah. Let's do it. So,
[38:57] Keith: uh, the list was, um
[39:01] Keith: First off said Ali seems really cool. So that's why I say
[39:09] Emma: that I Alley is not too vanilla for me. Ali's Ali. Her sexual preferences are fine. I was just commenting,
[39:15] Emma: but her sexual preferences are just, like so completely opposite of mind that it was It was funny. I just want to clarify
[39:19] Mike: that I prefer to
[39:26] Mike: I prefer to operate in a an adversarial worldview. And so you're attempt to make everything sort of comfortable for everybody, actually offends me.
[39:27] Emma: Well, thank you,
[39:31] Keith: Mike.
[39:34] Keith: So All right, here's the list. Okay, but okay.
[39:49] Keith: She won. Doesn't eat ass to. Doesn't sleep with women. Three thinks pegging is weird for its oral sex. Um, oral sex performed, receiving, receiving receive it yet she she dislikes receiving oral sex. Okay, so, um
[40:02] Keith: yeah. I mean, let's just start at the top here. Yeah, I mean, I think I agree with your analysis that Ali, uh, does not and is not interested in eating us. Um, the implication here is that you do or are,
[40:03] Keith: um,
[40:06] Keith: can you can you put some hair on that
[40:14] Mike: and I'd like to know first choice off the top, Just hang on on off the top. I'd like to know. Did either of you rim the other?
[40:20] Mike: No. Okay, so that hasn't So you guys okay, But anyway, so we have to speak in generalities, because unfortunately, we don't have. Okay,
[40:41] Emma: um, I will say I've never like, you know, I've never had, like, the thought of, like, the impulse like I really, like, want to go. Like like someone's asshole today. Like that. Like that has never crossed my mind to Brown town. However, I mean, I think you guys have, like, a term that you used when discussing this, but it's like you're you know, you're discussed. Threshold is
[40:47] Emma: suppressed at a certain level of arousal. And there have been, like, several times where,
[40:54] Emma: like, you know, I'm like having sex with someone I'm like, really into, and they're like, eat my ass. And I'm like, Okay. And
[40:56] Emma: several.
[41:03] Mike: Yeah. Wait. Okay, let's back up here. So have you Do you enjoy receiving or just giving?
[41:09] Mike: Or And I realized with all the caveats you just gave that you wouldn't just do it out of the blue. Do you enjoy? Have you enjoyed receiving it as well?
[41:14] Emma: Uh, not especially. It's not something I would request.
[41:31] Mike: Okay, but so Okay, so So you're conflict with the philosophy espoused by Ali. Here is it boils down to just that you're willing to do it. Not that you, like super want to do it or find it hot or like it's something that you would put on the menu. But you're just willing to do it. You don't want to receive either.
[41:34] Emma: It's not something that intimidates me. I guess
[41:36] Mike: so. I think this is true. I don't know
[41:38] Keith: if this emanates the word.
[41:45] Keith: Maybe it is. I think, actually, maybe that is the right word. Yeah, I am intimidated by my own and other people's assholes.
[42:00] Mike: I think this is. But my view is this is like what rimming is generally like. Nobody actually enjoys it. It's just like this weird threshold activity where it's like but I can I can make someone else to do it, you know, it's it's sort of compelling just to get someone in the consensual None consent.
[42:04] Keith: I think some people I think some people come from
[42:06] Keith: running.
[42:13] Mike: I don't Or maybe maybe maybe they have orgasms in the in Emma's sort of non vibrator sense. But not once that
[42:15] Keith: orgasm an orgasm
[42:17] Emma: by my fake orgasms.
[42:27] Mike: Well, for a man for a man, it would not. It would not. It would not remove. You wouldn't have to put your semen anywhere but the so when you were licking the guy's butthole.
[42:31] Mike: Um, what was that? I mean, it was just It was acceptable,
[42:35] Mike: but it wasn't turning you on. Was it turning you off?
[42:38] Emma: I'm trying to think now. I mean,
[42:41] Keith: was alcohol involved?
[42:42] Keith: That's bad.
[42:45] Emma: And it was still tolerable. Um,
[42:48] Mike: so it's usually involved in cleaning it either.
[42:59] Emma: Oh, yeah. That was another thing I wanted to comment about, but, um, so it's usually, like, part like showers. Like I feel like that's, like, the easiest rebuttal ever about like,
[43:02] Emma: Oh, it's not clean. It's all. It's a lot like just take a fucking
[43:12] Mike: shot. Haven't you ever? Okay, okay. Sure, Emma, But haven't you ever been in the shower? And we are toward the end of the show. Okay, so we're in the second half, so we're not going to gross people out too much. Hopefully.
[43:14] Mike: But
[43:24] Mike: have you ever been in the shower and like you clean your butt hole and then you're like, Okay, and then you go clean it again and there's a little more and you clean it again. There's a little more that's never happened to you because it's happened to me
[43:30] Mike: where you're like it's actually kind of difficult to get it all. It's like it's like you use this open, you get one layer
[43:35] Mike: and then there's another layer. There's multiple layers. Of course, I'm extremely hygienic person, so I
[43:39] Mike: clean my butthole until until I get into it, read
[43:41] Keith: until there's until there's nothing left.
[43:46] Mike: Yes, uh, so I mean, I don't So the shower I don't think is like a cure, all right?
[43:49] Keith: I feel like a shower is a prerequisite, but not
[43:52] Mike: I think she's worried. She's worried. Now she's like, he's right.
[43:57] Emma: I'm curious because we're assuming this is all, like, completely,
[44:02] Emma: like, superficial at this point. Like we're not. There's no, like internal
[44:03] Emma: anything. You
[44:08] Mike: can have multiple layers of gunk on a piece of skin. I mean, Yeah, of course. Yeah, we're not.
[44:12] Emma: Yeah, I've never I've never had that experience
[44:13] Mike: with your own bottle.
[44:15] Emma: Yeah, never.
[44:18] Mike: Are you like vegan or something? You know, but I also think
[44:21] Emma: like not having any hair helps.
[44:32] Keith: Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask, but I don't know how to ask that politely, because it's a very sensitive topic for women. But men have hairier assholes, and some women have hair in and around their assholes. Some have
[44:35] Keith: more than others. Some have none.
[44:38] Keith: But that occurs to me as a fairly,
[44:43] Keith: uh, conflating factor here in terms of
[44:46] Keith: what a reasonable amount of butthole cleanliness is.
[44:49] Mike: Okay, so anyway, you're So you're looking this guy's butthole
[44:53] Mike: and you're thinking, what?
[44:59] Emma: Like I don't know. How long do I have to do this for? Yeah, kind of. Yeah,
[45:07] Mike: when you're licking the guy's butthole, Are you like, stroking his Penis, or is he doing it like because you're kind of back that you're not really in position?
[45:12] Emma: I think I've done both. I think the last time this happens like he was stroking himself
[45:15] Emma: and then maybe I was touching myself. But
[45:17] Emma: yeah, I don't have, like, distinct memories.
[45:20] Mike: She has gone to a place.
[45:26] Mike: Is it in the missionary, so to speak position? Or is he is it in the doggy style position? Typically,
[45:30] Keith: is he on his back on his knees. Okay,
[45:33] Mike: back. So you're sort of angles. Nuts?
[45:37] Keith: Yeah. He, like, lifts his hips up, I suppose.
[45:39] Mike: Yeah. Okay.
[45:40] Mike: Um,
[45:48] Keith: okay. All right. That's the 0.1. Can we move on, please? All right. Thank you. Uh, okay. To, uh,
[45:50] Keith: Ali doesn't sleep with women,
[45:52] Keith: which
[45:56] Keith: Yeah, I think we've confirmed that. Okay.
[46:00] Mike: And have you considered yourself bisexual? Yeah.
[46:06] Mike: Okay. And that means that you would, like, go on a dating app and you would meet a woman and date her for three months or something. That's a thing you would do.
[46:09] Keith: What are you What are your preferences on? Tinder and bumble.
[46:13] Emma: Um, so I like don't date a lot of women,
[46:17] Emma: but like, I sleep with a lot of women. If that's
[46:19] Emma: helpful,
[46:29] Mike: it's very helpful. So when you say you sleep with them like, what could you describe? Like, Why don't you describe a typical lesbian sex encounter to us? If
[46:32] Emma: you could a typical lesbian sex encounter. What's
[46:38] Mike: What's a good one? Like, what's what's good? What's what's How does it go? Like, what's Because we know what the process is. I mean,
[46:54] Mike: apparently for the men on tinder, it's just, uh, they go out on day. They take in their house and then they push your head down and unzip. What's the What's the What's the lesbians I know? I know, I know I'm being facetious. But what's the What's the lesbian experience that you know what happens?
[46:55] Emma: I mean, I think
[46:59] Emma: it varies like anything else, but it's like generally like
[47:09] Emma: there's some, like making out there's more like foreplay, I would say generally, but also like I think the like. The line between four playing like actual sex with
[47:12] Emma: like to women is maybe not as distinct.
[47:14] Emma: Um,
[47:20] Mike: So what is the foreplay, like touching yourself, touching the person? Do you touch each other simultaneously like Yeah, yeah,
[47:25] Emma: I think it's actually it's like much less like kind of solo,
[47:34] Emma: then would be like with, like a male partner. Like, I would often touch myself with a male partner. But like I don't that's not really something that would happen with a female partner. At least hasn't happened to me.
[47:35] Emma: Um,
[47:41] Emma: yeah, so they would be like a lot of foreplay. That'd be like anything from like groping
[47:42] Emma: like touching,
[47:50] Emma: Um, and then usually there's like a lot of like oral sex. That's like a lot of it, honestly,
[47:54] Mike: is typically, like one person goes first and then the other. Yeah,
[47:55] Emma: generally,
[47:56] Emma: um,
[48:01] Keith: is there communication or is there better intuition because you,
[48:03] Keith: you know, know the lay of the land or whatever?
[48:12] Emma: I mean, I think that's, like, very like, partner dependent. Um, like, I think if you're good chemistry with someone, there isn't communication.
[48:15] Emma: Um, it's just like you could argue the opposite.
[48:18] Keith: You could argue the opposite. I mean,
[48:22] Keith: yeah, in my experience, when you go down on a woman when I go down on a woman,
[48:27] Keith: I can try my sort of, like encyclopedia of things that I've seen work in the past.
[48:33] Keith: And, you know, maybe I'll happen on the right. The right thing often do. Of course.
[48:34] Keith: Uh,
[48:49] Keith: but, uh, yeah, it helps if they're like No, you know, I prefer more G spot stimulation, or I prefer more clitoral stimulation or you know, more to the left or faster or slower or whatever.
[48:51] Keith: Uh huh.
[48:55] Keith: What's my question? My question is,
[48:58] Mike: I don't know. You have to communicate about that. Is it obvious? Obvious.
[49:04] Emma: Yeah. I thought I thought you were asking, like, Do you have to communicate about, like, who goes first or like
[49:09] Emma: that? Kind of that. Yeah, that's like, pretty intuitive. Yeah, they're still like communication, because
[49:10] Emma: I mean,
[49:20] Emma: like, women. I think there's like this maybe this impression that, like women, are just like, so good at giving other women oral sex because they themselves have a vagina.
[49:21] Emma: But like
[49:27] Emma: or I guess I say they themselves have a vulva. But like given that we've just had this conversation about how, like a lot of women are
[49:32] Emma: not in touch with what their orgasms actually are
[49:37] Emma: like, I think it's That's actually just not the case that, like a lot of women like, still need kind of
[49:43] Emma: coaching in the way that a man would when giving oral sex to another woman,
[49:47] Mike: that there's no penetration, I assume right or either either none or very little red.
[49:52] Emma: Yeah, there is. I mean, it depends on the person,
[49:57] Emma: Uh, depends on what they're into. Sometimes it's like just fingers
[50:02] Emma: or not, Like some people don't like that. Some women don't like that a lot. Um,
[50:06] Emma: I mean, there's, like, other ways to penetrate people.
[50:15] Mike: So is there I'm sure you said that the who goes first is pretty intuitive now, um, with a man with a with a heterosexual couple,
[50:17] Mike: it's typically the woman.
[50:24] Mike: I mean, the right kind of sequence is typically the woman orgasm in first because the man is going to lose interest in sex, typically
[50:25] Mike: after the orgasms.
[50:36] Mike: Um, now, Keith has dated before a woman who also lost all interest in sex when she had an orgasm. And so then he had to have a race with her each time a race he did not always win. Mind you,
[50:42] Mike: um and and that was trust. It was a lot of a lot of time spent in the bathroom masturbating into the toilet,
[50:43] Mike: uh, as she
[50:43] Emma: slept
[50:47] Mike: right. He's pushing his own head down,
[51:00] Mike: But so you say it's intuitive, but I mean, like, like, how does that? I've also wondered this with gay men. It's like So you have now have two men where, like they're both each of them is going to lose interest in sex. And so it's like, Well,
[51:10] Mike: so yeah, I mean, it seems that seems like it must be complicated. There's nothing like that in your experience where, like, you might have a partner who loses interest or something after she orgasms. And so, like, it's better for.
[51:15] Mike: Or maybe you're someone who loses interest, and and then you wind up in a race with them.
[51:19] Emma: No, I have never had that experience with a woman.
[51:27] Mike: Okay, so it's totally chill you like one of you comes and then the other. How do you know when to stop? Then
[51:45] Emma: you kind of just Well, that's the thing that I think is kind of fun about, Like hooking up with women. Like when you're used to hooking up with guys. Is that like women? A lot of women can have multiple orgasms and, like, there isn't kind of this, like, hard stop on the experience. Um,
[51:49] Mike: well, so how do you How do you stop you? Just You just exhaust yourselves.
[51:51] Mike: Sometimes you run out of lubrication.
[51:54] Emma: No, that happened, but, um,
[51:58] Mike: at some point, it would get the dehydration.
[52:04] Emma: That's when you just, like, use loop. But I don't know he feel it out.
[52:07] Mike: Have you done any M f f scenarios?
[52:09] Emma: F yes,
[52:13] Mike: you have. Now, why haven't you offered that to Keith?
[52:20] Emma: I don't know. Keith seems kind of a verse,
[52:26] Mike: Let me tell you, keep referencing. No, no. As Keith's agent here, I can tell you that
[52:34] Mike: Keith would jump at the more chefs you can add to that equation, the better the more m s, the more m's, the worse
[52:45] Mike: I think. I think he's being honest about that. Maybe to m to be okay for him. But I think no, maybe you could have, like, a furry or a anti character person.
[52:49] Mike: So just so are you saying you're MFF experiences have
[52:54] Mike: have just happened sort of spontaneously, or somebody doesn't have to kind of set them up?
[52:58] Emma: I wouldn't say they're set up. I think there were a couple times I kind of like,
[53:05] Emma: just kind of walked into them like I would text like a fuck buddy of mine like, Oh, hey, like, what are you doing tonight?
[53:11] Emma: And they'd be like, Oh, like I actually, like, have this person coming over, like, do you want me to ask if you can join?
[53:14] Emma: That happened, like, several times. Sometimes they were
[53:16] Mike: like, fuck, buddy, But
[53:18] Mike: the fuck buddies always a man in that situation, right
[53:21] Emma: in that particular situation, Yeah,
[53:25] Mike: Have you ever said no to that?
[53:30] Mike: You have. Okay, so you get proposition. That's somewhat frequently enough to say No and yes.
[53:33] Emma: Yeah, at certain points. Yeah.
[53:39] Mike: Okay. Have you have you ever done an M M f or an M F M? Depending on the situation?
[53:40] Emma: I don't know. The distinction
[53:43] Mike: and FM is just where the men don't have sex with each other.
[53:45] Emma: Yes, I have.
[53:52] Mike: You've done that too. Okay. And so it was, like, the sort of there on either side of you high fiving over your back situation. Or how does
[53:54] Mike: it was that, you know, they're,
[53:56] Emma: like, not engaging in anything.
[54:00] Emma: They're like, not engaging in anything sexually
[54:02] Emma: got it with each other. Okay.
[54:04] Mike: And is three your limits so far?
[54:05] Emma: Um,
[54:08] Emma: only, like in terms of experience.
[54:09] Emma: Yeah.
[54:11] Mike: You would do more than through it. Yeah.
[54:17] Mike: Okay. Do you know any women you think would be willing to do an M f f f, for example?
[54:23] Mike: Like with an attractive man? Keith, age. You
[54:34] Emma: know, I don't have a lot of I just moved to the city not that long ago, so I don't have a lot of like, close, close female friends. I'd be comfortable asking that, too. But
[54:37] Mike: would you usually do this with a close female friend?
[54:41] Emma: No, I mean, not like a like a close, platonic friend. But
[54:41] Emma: I see
[54:42] Mike: you know
[54:45] Mike: someone you've had sex with.
[54:48] Mike: Keith, what are you, Uh, what's next on the list?
[54:50] Mike: Oh, right. Sorry. I'm
[54:53] Mike: Keith was just daydreaming for
[54:55] Keith: my mind. Wandered
[54:59] Mike: there. Raging, raging erection. There. Okay,
[55:02] Keith: three thinks pegging is weird.
[55:02] Keith: Uh,
[55:06] Mike: pegging is weird. So you don't think Peggy's weird pegging
[55:13] Emma: is weird? I mean, I don't I don't think much is that's not true. I do think of plenty of things are weird. Uh, no, I don't think it's weird.
[55:14] Mike: You've done pegging, I think. A
[55:16] Keith: standard man,
[55:21] Keith: A normal heterosexual man desiring to be pegged as a little
[55:22] Keith: suspicious.
[55:26] Emma: Suspicious of what?
[55:36] Mike: I think gayness, right? Yes. That's I wasn't actually saying I was just being his agent again. Like I don't I don't think it means your guy. Actually, I I've persuaded myself suspicious,
[55:40] Keith: not dis positive or uncertainty, but
[55:41] Keith: uh huh.
[55:42] Keith: That
[55:47] Keith: amount of the combination of Well, I mean, I guess there are
[55:50] Keith: heterosexual men who are very submissive.
[55:55] Mike: Emma, you you You Is it fair to say that you do anal?
[55:57] Emma: Uh, sure,
[56:01] Emma: Like it's fair to say regularly. No, But
[56:02] Emma: do I wanna get something
[56:03] Mike: you do?
[56:09] Mike: And you can understand that it's an enjoyable thing? Or is it again, a thing that the guy wants? That's not really compelling.
[56:16] Emma: I mean, I think it's something that is not all that compelling for me, But I do understand, like how it could be
[56:18] Mike: okay for the guy because it's sort of dominant. Yeah,
[56:24] Emma: I think. I mean, I, like, have known women that really enjoyed it, but I don't fall into that category
[56:33] Mike: and you have not actually pegged a guy I have. All right. Oh, you have, Please. Please. One of the guys that you did the anal Angus with or different?
[56:35] Emma: No, actually,
[56:43] Mike: So there's so that's interesting. So there's some guys that, like their butt licked, and some guys that like their butt fucked, they're not the same guys. Interesting.
[56:44] Mike: So why don't you tell
[56:52] Keith: us the hold on a second? I think getting getting pegged as submissive and getting your butt leg lick to sort of alpha. So it's
[56:58] Keith: It's not surprising to me that those two things don't line up even though they are both in the same region.
[57:00] Keith: Yeah.
[57:03] Keith: Okay. Sorry. You were going to describe to us your pegging experience.
[57:07] Mike: Yeah. One of them?
[57:09] Emma: Yeah. It's, uh
[57:13] Emma: I don't know. What would you like me to describe? How
[57:16] Keith: did he communicate to you that he wanted this performed on him?
[57:18] Mike: Yes, that's interesting.
[57:20] Emma: You asked me
[57:22] Emma: if I would fuck his ass.
[57:28] Keith: Okay? And this was like, during foreplay, like, you know, during the appetizer course at dinner. Or like, when did this? When did
[57:30] Emma: this? This is like during foreplay.
[57:31] Emma: Okay.
[57:36] Mike: And then this This requires a harness and a dildo, too, right?
[57:38] Mike: So who provided that
[57:43] Emma: he did something like I was at his house and show up with one my bag of tricks?
[57:52] Mike: So you're on a date with a guy, or you're you're you're having your having foreplay with a guy, and he's like, Guess what I have. I have a harness and a strap on dildo, and you're just, like, great.
[57:55] Emma: I wouldn't I wouldn't say it was
[58:05] Emma: okay. I should preface this by saying like, this is someone I knew fairly well. Like strictly as like, a sexual partner, but nonetheless knew fairly well.
[58:09] Emma: Um, I was, like, aware that he had this interest.
[58:15] Emma: I guess I Maybe he just never, like, expressed a lot of interest in participating,
[58:22] Emma: But I think probably like he just got really turned on. He sensed that I was really turned on and then just, like, thought he would shoot a shot.
[58:24] Mike: You thought this was just to clear the air here, This
[58:27] Mike: clear the area. This was not Keith. This is someone else. This is absolutely
[58:30] Keith: not good. Clarification like, Thanks.
[58:36] Mike: Thanks. So Okay. So he So he brings it to you, and you got to put it on
[58:37] Mike: and then
[58:39] Mike: do you
[58:47] Mike: I don't know. Okay. What is he? What is he? So what goes on you You're basically whaling away on his butt, and he's beating off. Is that
[58:48] Mike: and
[58:51] Mike: And also was a missionary or doggy style.
[58:59] Emma: It was missionary. And he's like, Definitely like like
[59:04] Keith: the second time I've been surprised. This is the second time I've been surprised by the answer being missionary. Okay? I
[59:09] Emma: mean, these are also like someone I knew fairly well and like I've had a lot of sex with, so I feel like
[59:11] Keith: he wanted to make eye contact during the
[59:17] Mike: pegging. Did you know? Okay, you hang on. You had a lot of sex with him before,
[59:19] Mike: but was it a novelty? Okay.
[59:28] Mike: Did you know he had a strap on harness before this moment? Or is he like? Guess what? I it turns out I have Or did. He just bought it. How did that go? So
[59:36] Emma: I should say, I knew that like, he played with his ass a lot like solo.
[59:38] Emma: Okay,
[59:43] Emma: I was quite the grimace. Well,
[59:56] Mike: I mean, didn't that bother? I mean, weren't you kind of like, Why wouldn't bother me? Because Because some people are out there, you know, uh, I don't know, inventing things. And this guy is playing with his ass all the time. At some point,
[59:59] Emma: that's what I meant. Like playing
[60:02] Mike: with all the time. What do we do all day? But
[60:10] Emma: I think as a percentage of the time that he spent masturbating, a significant portion was devoted to his ass. That does that.
[60:12] Emma: Does that fare better?
[60:21] Mike: It really bothers me. Okay. I mean, come on. You've got God gave you, like a really good part in the front, and it's not willing to use it. Yeah,
[60:22] Keith: mhm.
[60:23] Keith: Uh,
[60:28] Keith: did he give you any guidance about
[60:40] Keith: how to insert this in such a way? But it's not like I was like, Was he wearing a butt plug all day? Or he's just, like, always, ready and accepting or like, yeah, like, How did the initial penetration go?
[60:42] Mike: I'm going for? I'm rooting for butt plug all day.
[60:46] Emma: There is. There was no there was no butt plug,
[60:48] Mike: did it? Just slipped right in.
[60:52] Emma: Not right in, like, there's there's some resistance, but Okay,
[61:03] Mike: Well, he was a practiced. Yeah, he is something that he I mean, that's it's, like on in porn, right? I mean, the different people who do this have done it so much that
[61:06] Mike: they know how to work those muscles, I guess.
[61:12] Mike: Okay. Is pegging a thing you would ever introduce into a relationship, or would you really let the guy do
[61:13] Emma: that?
[61:14] Emma: Is it something I've enjoyed? The
[61:16] Keith: power dynamic? No. Did you like, you
[61:29] Emma: know, which is, I think, maybe like something we don't want to get into. But like my experiences with this person had not been consistent with that power dynamic. If anything, they were the opposite.
[61:32] Keith: He was normally more dominant.
[61:33] Keith: Uh huh.
[61:34] Mike: Huh.
[61:38] Mike: So he's a dominant man who plays with his ass.
[61:40] Mike: Okay.
[61:49] Keith: All right. We gotta We gotta get to We got to get I mean, we're not We're not We're not making as much progress as I had hoped to our list of questions around here, but all right, so, uh,
[61:56] Keith: I mean, this one, this one's going. I mean, it is. I think it's a little weird that Ali does not enjoy receiving oral sex myself.
[61:59] Emma: You're like, as a connoisseur, I don't understand. Well,
[62:09] Keith: I like I like giving oral sex, and it seems like most of people that I have Sorry. All of the people I've done that to have
[62:11] Keith: enjoy that. Sorry. I misspoke.
[62:15] Mike: You're supposed to say, done that with done that with not too. Oh, right. Done that
[62:16] Keith: with right. Thank you.
[62:17] Mike: Inclusive language
[62:20] Keith: slipping my words here.
[62:21] Keith: Uh,
[62:25] Keith: So, do you have any advice for Ali on how she can
[62:27] Keith: become more comfortable
[62:29] Keith: or explore more with receiving oral
[62:32] Emma: sex? I mean, just,
[62:39] Emma: like, hook up with someone that's good at it. Which I It's like a shitty recommendation because you don't know that until
[62:41] Emma: you know that. But,
[62:45] Mike: yeah, there's no way you can like a yelp review what makes
[62:49] Mike: well, what what what, in your view, makes someone good at it.
[62:50] Emma: Like
[62:51] Emma: I think,
[62:58] Emma: in a way, like the people that are like very good at giving oral sex or like, not
[62:59] Emma: super
[63:02] Emma: like technique, heavy,
[63:08] Emma: like they kind of just like no very simple things. And then they can either, like,
[63:15] Emma: increase what they're doing or decrease what they're doing. Or they can let the woman like, be in control of what's
[63:16] Emma: happening.
[63:18] Emma: So I think it's like more is
[63:20] Keith: almost as bad.
[63:35] Keith: I think I understand what you're saying. So like if the guy comes in here with some sort of like tongue gymnastics, and he is convinced that this is exactly what you want, that can be not so great if he's malleable in such a way that you can insinuate him
[63:37] Keith: toward
[63:39] Keith: doing what you would like. That's that's better.
[63:45] Emma: Yeah, I mean, like, you still have to be doing things that are pleasurable, like you can't just like sure, completely out of
[63:50] Keith: it to be there like a sack of potatoes. Yeah, active involvement.
[63:57] Mike: So I'd like to. So I'd like to understand. Here what? Your ideal scenario is here. So is your ideal scenario that you're on your back.
[63:58] Mike: It's all right.
[64:00] Emma: Mm. No,
[64:01] Emma: I think like face sitting is
[64:04] Mike: generally adorable. Yeah.
[64:11] Mike: You prefer face sitting. Okay, So you're and are you is it, um what direction is your face pointing
[64:14] Emma: towards Like the head of the bed, I guess.
[64:18] Mike: Okay, So you're not looking at his Penis. You're looking at the wall. Yeah.
[64:19] Mike: Okay.
[64:21] Mike: And,
[64:28] Mike: uh, so then I assume that you don't want him to insert fingers in you, then because it's sort of challenging in that position or do
[64:31] Emma: Yeah, I don't think that would be you know,
[64:34] Mike: I don't You don't want
[64:34] Mike: Okay,
[64:41] Mike: So in that position is the primary thing that he's supposed to just sort of stick his tongue out and you grind on it.
[64:50] Mike: Okay, well, so so so in her in her Keith and her ideal situation, the guys doing, uh, it would be hard for a guy to be bad at that, wouldn't it?
[64:51] Mike: You'd be
[64:53] Emma: surprised.
[65:02] Mike: What could What are some of the doesn't make sense. He's trying to do stuff. If he tries to do stuff, it could be a problem. Right? What you want is just a soft just like
[65:04] Keith: his fingers away.
[65:10] Mike: Are you one of these people? Who, when you were like a teenager and you first learn to masturbate? You did it by, like, grinding against pillows.
[65:12] Emma: I was not one of those people. No.
[65:13] Emma: Okay,
[65:15] Mike: Yeah.
[65:27] Mike: Strike one, strike, strike four. A lot of mistakes here. Okay, But you do. But now you find, um Do you find that you prefer to be on top and P i v sex as well?
[65:29] Mike: That's interesting.
[65:31] Mike: And and it's a similar sort of.
[65:35] Mike: It's a similar sort of grinding when Keith Keith, is that what you as she did with you
[65:39] Mike: or to you? Whatever proposition you like with me.
[65:46] Mike: Okay, fine. Which is that what she did? Did she bring herself to climax by grinding on your pelvic bone? But I don't
[65:47] Keith: remember.
[65:48] Keith: Do you remember
[65:52] Emma: his tissue? Yes. That is what I did. Okay?
[65:55] Keith: Yeah. What I meant to say is yes.
[66:00] Mike: Did you wait? Wait, OK, this is important. Did you face it? Keith,
[66:02] Emma: You
[66:04] Keith: need was I face sat on
[66:07] Emma: I think he should have won that one.
[66:08] Keith: Ah,
[66:09] Keith: yes.
[66:10] Keith: Yeah.
[66:13] Mike: Okay. But she was facing away.
[66:18] Keith: Our listeners cannot see, But the look on Mike's face right now, it's great.
[66:30] Mike: Do you Do you Do you kind of? Because, I mean, oftentimes face sitting is associated with sort of asphyxiation play or, you know, kind of like using your but to kind of like,
[66:31] Mike: yeah, doesn't
[66:32] Emma: appeal to me.
[66:35] Keith: Yeah, my my record. But you do put your mama let me breathe.
[66:39] Mike: Okay? So you you bet you put you
[66:40] Mike: why were you worried?
[66:44] Emma: Just like the longevity. Uh,
[66:45] Emma: I didn't want anyone
[66:49] Mike: Keith Keith was interested in being faced at for a really long period of time.
[66:51] Emma: Oh, yeah, it seems that way.
[66:53] Mike: That's hot. That's hot.
[66:55] Mike: Okay.
[66:58] Mike: Um
[66:59] Mike: uh huh.
[67:12] Keith: I think. Okay, listen, we've been recording for well over an hour. I think we're going to wrap it. Yeah. Does anybody else have anything else they want to say to clarify or setting the record straight?
[67:17] Mike: I think we have. I think there's a lot more here we can explore, but maybe we could do it in a future episode.
[67:22] Keith: Yeah, I think we have a whole. We have a whole list here. We didn't get to, so
[67:26] Keith: Yeah, we'll have to have a back. So, Emma, thank you for joining us and tolerating us. We appreciate
[67:28] Emma: it. You're very welcome.
[67:42] Keith: So that'll do it for Episode 33 of your mileage may vary. Reminder. We pay $15 for feedback sent to Y m m v pot at gmail dot com Rate and review us. Please tell your friends, uh, and all that,