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Episode 37: Semen Thickness, Underwater Erections, Fleshlights, Free Use

Team YMMV | 9-24-2021 | 1:06:59

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We're back. A couple porn videos that are on the more compelling and less novelty side. Stuff people are actually interested in watching, probably.

Questions about more aggressive sex, guys just not trying very hard to please their partner, oral. And, of course, more details on the specifics of how Keith masturbates.

What's it like for more and less attractive guys who go to a bar to meet women? Does that even happen anymore in a world dominated by Tinder, Bumble and the like? A little bit of conversation about masturbating while scuba diving. All in all a jam-packed YMMV episode.

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/37/thick-1

https://ymmv.me/37/variety

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/37/fleshlight

https://ymmv.me/37/aggressive

https://ymmv.me/37/blowjob-training

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:25] Keith: So what I think happens when you stop the women from like just, you know, kissing all the way down your body whatever and you say like that's not my favorite. I think what they're hearing is that you definitely want to have the ivy sex and that you're thinking that they only want to just blow you and have you come and have that be it and you're trying to signal like, no, I really want to be inside you.
  • [0:26] Keith: Yeah.
  • [0:38] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage. May vary. Your mileage may vary is a show that brings an object the position of meticulous analysis and humor to its examination of topics related to sex and relationships.
  • [0:43] Keith: We think we're pretty entertaining and we hope you do to my co host is mike greetings mike,
  • [0:44] Mike: I'm here.
  • [0:54] Keith: Great. And today we've brought back fan fan favorite Ali to bring some much needed estrogen to the show. Welcome back alley. Hey, thanks for having me back.
  • [0:55] Keith: Mhm.
  • [1:03] Keith: I think Mike is going to force us to go 12 rounds on whether women like giving blowjobs today. So I hope you're ready to make your case there.
  • [1:04] Keith: Um but
  • [1:09] Mike: before we, I'm on the affirmative, so it's not going yeah
  • [1:23] Keith: right, well yeah, it's going to be two against one here. So before we get into it, we have the standard podcast intro segment where I beg people to rate and review us on their favorite podcasting app to write his feedback at y mmv pod at gmail dot com
  • [1:31] Keith: and to tell all their friends and family about how awesome the show is. So we can continue to grow and educate the world about the crucial matters of our time
  • [1:39] Keith: to that end. We usually start the show with a group discussion of a porn clip that mike selects for us. Mike. Have you done your homework?
  • [1:43] Mike: Yeah. And as always, this will be a link to this in the show notes. So
  • [1:46] Mike: you can click it and uh
  • [1:50] Mike: Watch along with us, it's about a 32nd long gift
  • [1:52] Mike: and I can narrate it while we watch it.
  • [1:55] Keith: Do I need to stop? Like when I click it, is it going to start?
  • [1:58] Mike: It is going to start right when you click it, but you know,
  • [2:02] Mike: you've probably seen, you may have seen this before this genre.
  • [2:06] Keith: Um Okay, I'm getting I've clicked it but I posited
  • [2:12] Mike: right at the start. So I mean that we, as soon as we send it to Ali she just started watching on a rerun. She's like,
  • [2:19] Keith: okay, okay, all right, I'm going to start this in 321 starting.
  • [2:37] Mike: So it's a woman with pink hair sitting under a table and all the table has a penis protruding through it and she's licking it sort of lovingly. Now it's different. Okay, she had her hand around it. Now, it's using something, it's sort of like jumping forward in time. She's now got like a little strand of something coming out of it that she put in her mouth.
  • [2:43] Mike: She's not a sort of oh and now it's shooting semen, but she's not touching it at all into her mouth. Um
  • [2:54] Mike: and now she's lovingly caressing it while shoots even more semen that dripped somewhere. Um Okay, and that's it. So it ended. So the important constituent here is that this is a
  • [2:56] Mike: kind of metallic table maybe with
  • [3:04] Mike: cloth around it. And she's under it with a light and a camera. And there's just a guy up on top of this, presumably a guy on top of the table
  • [3:07] Mike: who has stuck his penis through the table and I want to let people know
  • [3:08] Keith: glory hole.
  • [3:11] Mike: This is a it's a it's a milking table key. The milking table,
  • [3:14] Keith: is that what it's called? Is that the official name for this sort of,
  • [3:31] Mike: Well, if you look on the upper right of the given, of course I knew that because this lovely young lady posts incessantly, maybe that's the wrong word. But very frequently on some subreddit, this kind of video and it never gets many up votes, but she does it again and again, In fact, she reminds me of
  • [3:41] Mike: the men who post themselves masturbating and always get exactly zero up votes. Uh and I guess I guess the one down vote to take them from 1 to 0. Um
  • [3:43] Keith: yeah,
  • [4:00] Keith: I have a lot of questions about how she got into this situation with a guy. Like, does that guy know that, does he know what she looks like, like is the idea that she invited him over and was like, hey, get on this table. I want to do. This was the idea that he goes into a room and there's a table with a hole on it. Like,
  • [4:04] Mike: I mean if you were going to do this, ali, how would you
  • [4:07] Keith: put it out in the paper?
  • [4:08] Keith: Um,
  • [4:14] Keith: I hope it's the former, I hope that they have seen each other beforehand.
  • [4:16] Keith: This man's penis is pretty narrow,
  • [4:22] Keith: not very, very totally
  • [4:27] Mike: ignoring the emotional element of the scenes. Like he's like, that table looks pretty cheap.
  • [4:34] Keith: It, why is she wearing lingerie? She can't even see him. Exactly.
  • [4:37] Mike: Well, it's a, it's a, it's a porn people. I mean it's,
  • [4:45] Mike: there's, there's an audience for this. Um, I mean let's, let's assume. Okay, so I've, this, this young lady has done many of these and
  • [4:53] Mike: I've seen several of them and I do think, although I cannot like, don't hold me to this, but I do think that it's always the same penis Ali,
  • [4:57] Mike: so I think it is the same guy. Um
  • [5:03] Mike: yeah, and uh, it's, you know, and I mean, my guess is that it's a way of having a porn
  • [5:08] Mike: that exposes the least information about the man and maybe,
  • [5:14] Mike: yeah, the least sort of identifiable details about the man is possible. Does that make sense? Yeah,
  • [5:19] Keith: I can tell you a very good, a lot of people,
  • [5:24] Mike: there could be, there could be some kink some sort of fetish here, right? Like the idea of
  • [5:26] Mike: um
  • [5:28] Mike: an unknown person
  • [5:29] Mike: um
  • [5:40] Mike: just just a penis, it seems, although to be honest, like from what I know of female psychology, this does seem like the worst possible situation from a woman's perspective, what do you think about that? Ali,
  • [5:48] Keith: No, I don't think it's the worst possible situation could be enjoyable, particularly as you say, if it's the same penis, it probably is enjoyable to her because she probably just
  • [5:50] Keith: wanted to do this, and this is the only way that her boyfriend
  • [5:54] Keith: agreed to be on camera, so it's just as dick.
  • [6:10] Keith: I wonder if that's what's going on here, I mean, it could be, yeah, this guy is like camera shy and she wants somebody to participate in her, you know, porn career, and so she's like, okay, what if we create this milking table concept?
  • [6:12] Mike: But
  • [6:16] Mike: there's also, there's other elements to this, like for example,
  • [6:28] Mike: uh he's not able obviously to pleasure himself in any way. Well, I guess he could do something above the table, but not genitals are sort of on the biggest levels. Uh so there is a,
  • [6:33] Mike: what do they call that? Uh there's an element here of the ruined orgasm,
  • [6:36] Mike: keith, you're familiar with the ruined orgasm, right? She
  • [6:44] Keith: could edge him or create a situation where like, he really wants something and he can't make it happen because yeah, he doesn't really have access to his own penis here.
  • [6:47] Mike: How do you know what ruined orgasm is?
  • [6:55] Keith: I I know what edging is. So I would assume it's where you edge someone and then don't let them come. I don't know that's wrong. Okay, you've
  • [7:00] Mike: talked about this before, right? I feel like for some reason, I feel like he's brought this up and he's probably going to plead ignorance. You know,
  • [7:08] Keith: I don't know if we started on the show ruined orgasm is my understanding of it is your you do orgasm, but they don't like
  • [7:13] Keith: do the thing you want while you're actually having the orgasm. And so it's
  • [7:22] Mike: right, they said there's a cessation of stimulation, right? When, like the contractions begin, uh which would be probably a drag for a woman to, right? I mean, it would be,
  • [7:36] Mike: it would lower the intensity. What would you say? Yeah, that's kind of lame. And so, and with a guy, of course, it's like almost has this like, comical aspect that like, you've removed the stimulation and you just have this thing just kind of spurting out
  • [7:41] Mike: squirting out semen with like, no, nobody interacting with it,
  • [7:55] Mike: right? So it creates this kind of like emasculating image um that some men find arousing. So this has that aspect. And I should say that whenever she makes these videos, it's always like that, like there's no
  • [8:03] Mike: it's not what I would consider, like a normal completion of the act? It's like she, she does these various things that are very light stimulation. The videos are often like,
  • [8:09] Mike: I'm glad we found this gift because the videos are often like 30 minutes long.
  • [8:11] Mike: Yeah, and so there's and sometimes he'll come twice
  • [8:16] Mike: there is there and it's just very light stimulation. And then she just like
  • [8:19] Mike: uh and then and then oddly, and this just has to be for the camera
  • [8:26] Mike: when he does nut, she will position herself so that it goes on her in her mouth, which like,
  • [8:30] Mike: he doesn't even know what's happening. So it's like, who cares, right? But she True.
  • [8:36] Keith: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean this does not look like the most satisfying
  • [8:38] Keith: stimulation.
  • [8:42] Mike: Maybe it's uh compelling. You could get a table, cut a hole in it,
  • [8:44] Mike: give it a shot with an
  • [8:52] Keith: issue that I'm noticing here and we should move on here shortly. But initial I'm noticing here is so with both glory holes and this milking table which is just horizontal glory hole.
  • [8:55] Keith: I like she can't really
  • [9:00] Keith: deep throat him because like her nose will hit the table right?
  • [9:06] Mike: Uh Actually, I think, I don't think that I think I have seen one more effectively that happens, but go on.
  • [9:08] Keith: I just feel like
  • [9:11] Keith: there's a lot of things about this setup that make
  • [9:12] Keith: giving a
  • [9:15] Keith: good blowjob basically impossible.
  • [9:21] Mike: Okay, well, it's interesting that you bring that up keith because you take the position.
  • [9:22] Mike: Mhm.
  • [9:25] Mike: That there is no such thing
  • [9:27] Mike: as a good blowjob at least from the, let
  • [9:35] Keith: me let me let me state my position just so that we we enter this debate uh before your eyes open.
  • [9:40] Keith: I enjoy the physical stimulus of receiving a blow job.
  • [9:47] Keith: I don't think or I often struggle to internalize and
  • [9:54] Keith: understand that. Okay I got to close this clip, it's distracting me. I struggled to understand
  • [9:59] Keith: that the woman is enjoying the experience of giving me a blowjob
  • [10:01] Keith: and that takes away from my enjoyment of it.
  • [10:05] Mike: Now ali you enjoy the experience of giving keith a blowjob, right?
  • [10:10] Keith: I do get getting a blowjob.
  • [10:13] Mike: Oh my bad, my bad.
  • [10:15] Mike: Okay so what I wanted to
  • [10:17] Keith: establish here though is that
  • [10:21] Keith: keith does enjoy and believes that the woman enjoys
  • [10:25] Keith: the feeling of having his penis inside her.
  • [10:28] Keith: No I believe she says she enjoys it.
  • [10:37] Mike: She switched, she switched the topic. She she asked you if the woman if you believe that the woman enjoys P. I. V. Sex.
  • [10:38] Keith: Well yeah.
  • [10:53] Keith: Okay so it's only when it comes to blow jobs that you think somehow women are misrepresenting their enjoyment. They enjoy vaginal sex because there's a reproductive drive there.
  • [10:56] Mike: Do you feel a reproductive drive when you have vaginal sex alley
  • [10:58] Keith: personally. No, I don't.
  • [11:09] Keith: Uh I mean some women have like vulva kenya or whatever they have like you know pain with insertion. Like vaginal sex can be painful. I just want to establish that like
  • [11:10] Keith: you think that
  • [11:12] Keith: Women 100
  • [11:15] Keith: are being truthful when they say they enjoy
  • [11:21] Keith: having your penis in the vagina, but they are not being truthful when they say they enjoy having your penis in their mouth.
  • [11:33] Keith: I mean, the spirit of my argument is that I don't believe it's literally 100% 1 way, 0% the other, but I believe that generally women enjoy vaginal sex more
  • [11:34] Keith: than they,
  • [11:42] Keith: I mean it's complicated, I think they believe that they enjoy giving, but I think there's like a
  • [11:48] Keith: yeah, there's like a more nefarious thing going got where like they've been like cultural, I used to think that this is like a thing they're supposed to
  • [12:01] Mike: do, let me let me jump in here. I actually feel and maybe it'll be represent a different viewpoint and now we can maybe mediate a little or Yeah, the third viewpoint, but I mean my view actually, I don't agree at all with what keith is saying. I think that
  • [12:03] Mike: I can easily imagine
  • [12:06] Mike: woman finding giving oral
  • [12:09] Mike: More pleasurable or more enjoyable than p. five
  • [12:15] Mike: for a couple reasons. One is one is that in P. I. V. Like I think that
  • [12:22] Mike: there could very easily be like the sense that like her body is just being used, like she doesn't feel like she's a participant in the same way, whereas like any other she's like
  • [12:24] Mike: doing stuff and secondly
  • [12:34] Mike: in for most women they're sort of the same in the sense that like that's not what's going to get her off anyway. And so it's in both cases, it's like she's doing something with her body
  • [12:43] Mike: that is primarily for the guys enjoyment. And so then it really, you know, so then it it really is kind of a toss up between like, well, do you whether have your
  • [12:48] Mike: pelvis doing it on your face doing it? Like anyway, that's a different viewpoint. Maybe ali could
  • [13:24] Keith: well maybe, you know, I mean, I think parts of that are good, like anecdotally. I've never gotten everywhere. Go ahead, go ahead. I've never gotten less wet from giving a blow job. I have gotten less wet as P. I. V. Sex continues. So I feel like if we're going to just go with physical indicators of my enjoyment. No, no, okay, I reject your self and else let me explain to you your wetness. So when you have vaginal sex for a long period of time, like, you know, sometimes,
  • [13:30] Keith: you know, not everything can be 12 on the stimulation scale. Uh
  • [13:37] Keith: Come on, you have never been mid blowjob. Like, okay, this is getting a little bit performative at this point.
  • [13:46] Keith: Like you've always like, like your arousal, like just stays high or or goes up. It never goes down while giving a blowjob.
  • [13:53] Keith: I don't think it goes down if it gets it gets tiresome or something. Like maybe I'll switch to like,
  • [13:56] Keith: you know, having him be inside me or something. But it,
  • [14:09] Keith: yeah, I've never, I've never been giving a blowjob and been thinking like, okay, I just want this whole thing to be over. Like let's go make dinners. Okay. All right, Hold on. All right. Do you to agree that there are some women that give blow jobs out of obligation,
  • [14:13] Mike: Like they actually really don't like, okay, definitely. What
  • [14:16] Keith: percentage of women do you guys think are like that
  • [14:18] Keith: valley?
  • [14:21] Keith: I don't know. I mean it's harder for me to
  • [14:26] Keith: judge this because I don't really talk about this with my female friends. So why not?
  • [14:29] Keith: I don't know. It feels
  • [14:31] Keith: odd too.
  • [14:33] Keith: I'll say 50% sure. I don't know. I'll
  • [14:42] Mike: say this. I'll say that as much as men were there, a lot of, a lot is made online about men not giving oral to women.
  • [14:53] Mike: Um, yes. So we know that also men, also though men do enjoy talking about sex, the topic of a man giving oral to a woman is probably one of the least common.
  • [14:59] Mike: Maybe the least common other than something gay or like some very, and I'm talking about among straight men of course.
  • [15:00] Mike: Um,
  • [15:07] Mike: one of the least common topics that might just be some sort of general, like embarrassment at being a sort of a submissive position or something
  • [15:12] Mike: that that makes it, so it's not as compelling anyway. In terms of the percentage,
  • [15:13] Mike: I'm going to go with
  • [15:21] Mike: More. It's more than 50. I'm going to go with like 75% of women do it out of obligation.
  • [15:21] Keith: Oh
  • [15:37] Keith: I actually think it's lower than both of those numbers. But maybe that's just everyone I'm with always wants to blow me uh Now. Okay so those are those are pretty high numbers. Do you think it's around the same for men? Like what what percentage of men do you think enjoy going down on women?
  • [15:38] Mike: It's the same.
  • [15:45] Keith: Yeah. I think it's about the same to Yeah. I mean we can argue we can handle the specific number but I'm guessing it's about the same.
  • [15:48] Mike: My percentage number is from
  • [15:54] Mike: the extensive number of posts I've seen online of women. Sorry. Of men
  • [16:02] Mike: who I mean it's just it's just like you see it just so often. That's why I went with a high number that men say that like once it's so okay
  • [16:08] Mike: If you're on your 1st 10 dates with a woman, that's like a different situation so then they're going to do whatever.
  • [16:24] Mike: But but like it appears to be the case that like when men get married or like in a long term relationship that like many many many many women like are like yeah I don't want to do that anymore. And the men are usually pretty okay with it because they substitute out P. I. V.
  • [16:25] Mike: Um So it's not
  • [16:32] Mike: it's not that big of a deal but like it's just something you see so often. Like it kind of it kind of surprises me because it's like an obvious,
  • [16:37] Mike: but I think if I were a woman it would be an obvious kind of mistake because it's like you're
  • [16:41] Mike: you're incentivizing the guy to go look for it elsewhere. Anyway, that's the rationale.
  • [16:58] Keith: I agree with everything here, right? Like I know I mean you see this online all the time. You hear people complain about this all the time. Like my wife will never go down on me anymore. All right, so let's say the number just for the sake of this conversation, say the number is 75% of men and women don't really want to go down on their partners.
  • [16:59] Keith: Okay,
  • [17:03] Keith: what percentage of people do you think pretend they do early on?
  • [17:06] Keith: Right? Like it's like
  • [17:09] Mike: It's gonna be a subset of that, 75% is what you mean. Yeah,
  • [17:15] Keith: there's like a group of people and I think it's a large group of people that are sort of pretending they want to do it.
  • [17:20] Mike: However, however keith to one thing I would note as a caveat there, I was just reading
  • [17:21] Mike: because
  • [17:23] Mike: I have literally nothing better to do
  • [17:30] Mike: about this on Reddit yesterday. And it was a post about men. Sorry about
  • [17:46] Mike: it was a woman saying that in her experience was numerous women saying that in their experience, basically the behavior of a man on their their first time they have sex with regard to oral sex performed on the woman is extremely telling and this made sense to me about how they have behaved later.
  • [17:54] Keith: Yeah, I have this topic on her spreadsheet actually. Yeah, basically if a man doesn't go down on you like early in a relationship they're never going to later.
  • [17:58] Mike: Yeah, and so I think that women and I think that's because
  • [18:03] Mike: it's a gender role or stereotype or something thing where like women
  • [18:05] Mike: are more likely to sort of in my view
  • [18:14] Mike: act like they enjoy it early on to sort of snare the man, whereas the man figures like look, women don't care as much about exactly what happens in sex.
  • [18:18] Mike: Sure. In terms of selecting a mate, but maybe ali would have different opinions about
  • [18:35] Keith: well I mean I know we're going to talk about that later, but I think the interesting thing here is that I'm kind of like keith in reverse in the sense that I get uncomfortable with a man going down on me unless it's unless we've been in a relationship for a long time and I feel very comfortable with him. So
  • [18:39] Keith: even if he tried to in the first few dates I would not
  • [18:40] Keith: let him do that. So
  • [18:44] Mike: that's because of the stubble on his face, right, It grosses you
  • [18:57] Keith: out. No, it just it feels very intimate and then in reverse my argument for blowjobs is that it's a sex act that you can do well. Like I the woman, I don't have to take my clothes off, like I'm very
  • [18:59] Keith: protected in a way, and I just kind of get to see
  • [19:03] Keith: what his dick is like. Whereas, you know,
  • [19:07] Keith: none of me is exposed. I'm not vulnerable at all. I feel
  • [19:08] Mike: that's interesting. I
  • [19:17] Keith: feel like most of the women that I've been with think that blow jobs are more intimate than vaginal sex and I don't know why that is, But
  • [19:19] Keith: uh,
  • [19:23] Keith: both both both male and female.
  • [19:25] Keith: Um Okay. All right. So hold
  • [19:28] Mike: on. Wait, wait, wait, you're talking about men you've been with,
  • [19:31] Mike: sorry, male and female. I don't understand that part.
  • [19:32] Keith: I think
  • [19:42] Keith: having a man go down on them or going down on a man themselves are both would rank higher on the intimacy scale than them.
  • [19:42] Mike: And now he's saying that
  • [19:51] Keith: now we're like exchanging like instagram ideas is more intimate than actual sex that people are strange.
  • [20:01] Keith: Okay, hold on. All right. So All right. I think the three of us all agree that there are some large percentage of people that pretend they like giving blowjobs.
  • [20:04] Mike: Well, I don't ali what were you were at 50, right?
  • [20:12] Keith: Yeah. Well, we were at 50 actually not liking it, but then like some subset of that 50 is pretending that they like to do it
  • [20:14] Mike: early in the relationship.
  • [20:28] Keith: Right? So say that half of those 50 also or pretending. So if you think what you're trying to say is if you encounter someone who's willing to give you a blowjob on the first date. Either to me either there in that 50% who actually like it or they're in that 25% who don't like it but are willing to pretend.
  • [20:31] Keith: Yeah, I just think it's irrational.
  • [20:39] Keith: Yeah. It's not irrational for me to be like, highly skeptical of someone telling me how much how excited they are to give me a blow job
  • [20:43] Mike: when you give your little talk to a woman
  • [20:55] Mike: that we discussed a couple episodes ago, like your little talk where you're like, hey, this is my favorite thing and you have like your, your reasoning behind it, uh which has got to be a very unusual experience for the woman. Like I think that like,
  • [20:59] Mike: yeah, it's like, it's like there
  • [21:18] Mike: most men are like, they're like, you're, you're talking about it. Most men just have like their penis head right in front of the woman's lips, like put it in. Um so you're very unusual in that regard. But the, when, when that's when you're having that talk, what what are your experiences in terms of the reactions? Like, I mean, is it some of them are unhappy? They're like, hey, I disagree or like I like doing this.
  • [21:21] Mike: Some of them are, are any of them like, oh, who,
  • [21:24] Mike: that's great because I don't like it either
  • [21:30] Mike: in different, like what kind of like is the breakdown of the reactions you get to your, your little discussion there.
  • [21:31] Mike: I have
  • [21:32] Keith: met,
  • [21:35] Keith: I met some people who
  • [21:36] Keith: seem
  • [21:38] Mike: relieved, but
  • [21:43] Keith: I don't know if that has ever come up after someone has pretended they want to.
  • [21:59] Keith: Sorry, stated they want to. I don't know if they pretend like, sorry, sorry, let me let me let me let me explain more fully. So if I bring it up, you know, at dinner before I'm like, oh, you know, like I don't really like somehow I just come up. No, it's like somehow sex comes up
  • [22:09] Keith: and I might mention you're like, I like the way you're eating that carrot by the way. Let me tell you if that were my penis, I would not
  • [22:12] Mike: that's not what comes up for you at dinner on like a date alley.
  • [22:20] Keith: No guys, there are various reasons why bringing up sex is good. Like you can,
  • [22:31] Keith: you know, figure out uh you know, if they're on birth control, you can figure out what the recent partner history has been and you know, so there there are good reasons to bring it up
  • [22:32] Keith: regardless of me trying
  • [22:40] Mike: to virtue single, but I don't want to blow job immediately, likes to start talking about the diameter of his penis and how good it looks through a milking table, right?
  • [22:43] Keith: Like this guy man, she's ashamed of
  • [22:48] Mike: himself just pops up the gift on his phones and
  • [22:56] Keith: I'm sorry, I got there. You're drinking out of your champagne flutes and keith is like, you know, I don't know if mine would fit in this? Yeah,
  • [23:06] Keith: yeah, this is exactly right. Wait all right, so all right, So we agree that it's not irrational to be concerned about this. So
  • [23:10] Keith: All right, So how,
  • [23:12] Keith: like I find
  • [23:14] Keith: that I am most
  • [23:23] Keith: interested and this is this is probably pathetic, but I'm just going to say it. I'm most interested in receiving a blow job when the person basically
  • [23:27] Keith: bags or makes it or like really makes a strong
  • [23:29] Keith: effort to say that they really want to.
  • [23:32] Keith: That helps me get over my
  • [23:35] Keith: my concern that they don't want to.
  • [23:37] Keith: Yeah, that makes sense. That's good.
  • [23:39] Mike: Yeah, it is the fence to
  • [23:42] Keith: it is a little pathetic because
  • [23:55] Keith: yeah, I mean, it depends how far into begging you feel like they have to go, no, I mean, I don't need like a notarized letter from their congressman, you know, swearing that they want to give me a blow job. It's like
  • [23:59] Keith: yeah, that's it doesn't have to raise to that bar. But
  • [24:09] Keith: yeah, I offer some resistance and they're just like, oh, okay, I'm like, oh, all right, well, and I was good to offer some resistance here, but if they push back and there's some magnitude of pushing back that.
  • [24:14] Keith: Well, yeah, I mean, I just get, the more they push back, the more comfortable, I hypothetically yet,
  • [24:31] Keith: So when they asked to do it, are they this over dinner and they're just asking you can I give you a blowjob? Or is it that they just, you're making out and they start to ease downward and you say, no, no, no, wait, yeah, that's that's the standard situation, look, this doesn't normally come up at dinner, but
  • [24:37] Keith: if you're in your initial sexual encounter and the person starts,
  • [24:59] Keith: you know, moving their lips below mine, or, I mean, you know, whatever, there's a chance that they're trying to give you a blowjob after they've started moving down, like, maybe they're just trying to kiss your neck, but like, what's there below the neck? You know, you sort of, it's getting probable, but they're probably going to try to give you a blowjob. Yeah, I'll say, hey, um,
  • [25:08] Keith: you know, this is not my favorite uh sex act, like, you don't, you don't need to feel like you have to do this.
  • [25:10] Mike: So ali is, is that
  • [25:14] Mike: I'm curious about your experience with this is,
  • [25:19] Mike: is the normal way that that sort of, gets introduced with a partner you
  • [25:22] Mike: doing it? Or is it more like, I mean, you know,
  • [25:26] Mike: Bill Clinton famously like to pull out his penis
  • [25:29] Mike: and ask a girl to kiss it, was it more than that?
  • [25:40] Keith: It's never been that, I think it's either, yeah, it's either what he's describing, like the kissing slowly moves downward, or sometimes I'll just ask a guy, like, can I lick you,
  • [25:50] Keith: which is a euphemism, I think for ali, ali, ali, how often do you initiate it, or how often does he subtly or not so subtly
  • [25:51] Keith: suggested,
  • [25:54] Mike: and we're interested in the really the first,
  • [25:59] Mike: you know, with with a new partner obviously, like when it's, when you've been with someone for a while, like you could have
  • [26:00] Keith: some sort of rhythm
  • [26:07] Keith: Yeah, with a new partner, and I think maybe this is particular to me because I really like it, but with a new partner, almost always I initiate it
  • [26:32] Keith: okay, they don't have a chance, right, just like a sucking remora that just keep it between the appetizer, the drops on the floor here, actually one of my partners made fun of this because we were watching a movie and we got literally like one minute and 20 seconds into the movie, and then I started to like dad and he's like can we watch more of the movie first, regret it,
  • [26:35] Keith: wow,
  • [26:42] Mike: well you can, so keith realized that keith has admitted that 50% of women like doing it, which I think is actually a pretty big admission,
  • [26:44] Keith: I don't know if I admitted that or not,
  • [26:54] Keith: he said, I know you know I did admit that, I think my number is actually lower than yours, I think more, I think it depends by age, like I think young women are probably sort of afraid of penises and like
  • [26:56] Keith: but once, but once, how
  • [26:58] Mike: young keith
  • [27:07] Keith: uh well this is hypothetical, but women younger than 25 who have not had that much experience with that many penises probably are
  • [27:11] Keith: more likely to be afraid of them and hesitant to give blowjobs, but women in there
  • [27:14] Keith: 30s or whatever 30s are higher,
  • [27:16] Keith: are probably more
  • [27:17] Mike: comfortable. Yeah,
  • [27:27] Mike: okay, but so you but so you've you're but you're at a number that's not zero in terms of like some of them enjoying it, and I mean you have alley here basically saying
  • [27:32] Mike: as far as I can tell, like this is one of her, it's I mean ali is it fair to say like
  • [27:36] Mike: I'm trying to understand how favorable of an activity this is for you, like
  • [27:38] Mike: it has to be with.
  • [27:53] Mike: Obviously let's let's just assume it's with someone, you know? Well you're dating, not just, I mean you're not actually interested in a milking table with unknown people, I assume. Um But okay, so so uh
  • [27:55] Mike: in that context, I mean like,
  • [27:57] Mike: you know, can you
  • [28:01] Mike: is there some way to like give keith an idea of like, you know, I'd rather
  • [28:04] Mike: with a partner do this than that, like
  • [28:11] Mike: how often you like to do? I mean it's just, it sounds like, I mean the the example you gave him the movie made it sound like this is not
  • [28:20] Mike: something you're doing, just your you have a genuine first person enjoyment of it, that makes you be like, hey this is what I want to, I want this in my mouth right now, is that?
  • [28:21] Keith: Oh yeah,
  • [28:25] Keith: yeah. I like it. I mean I would, I would like for it to feature in
  • [28:29] Keith: almost all of, I guess the sexual sessions that I have, like
  • [28:33] Keith: if I'm on my period or something or sex seems like it would be,
  • [28:36] Keith: you know, difficult or messy or something. I think I'd probably rather
  • [28:38] Keith: do that then,
  • [28:40] Keith: you know, they have to clean blood out of my sheets.
  • [28:46] Mike: Sure. But this is, well, that's a more negative cast. So this is, I think you're making a stronger positive case though, that like,
  • [28:47] Mike: you know,
  • [28:49] Mike: you,
  • [28:50] Mike: um,
  • [28:53] Mike: I mean you just find it fun. Like it's a thing.
  • [28:58] Keith: Yeah, I'm trying to say like, I don't, it's not that it's not that that's the only thing I want to do, but it's,
  • [29:03] Keith: it's something that I definitely want to do. Okay, But this is, this is important. Okay?
  • [29:06] Keith: You're in an early sexual encounter with somebody
  • [29:09] Keith: you don't want them to come while you're giving him
  • [29:12] Keith: the blow job, right?
  • [29:14] Keith: No, no. I mean, I do if I think that
  • [29:19] Keith: he's willing to stick around after that and we could do some other stuff later,
  • [29:21] Keith: but
  • [29:28] Mike: stick around. You mean you mean stick around to have sex more, you mean stick around like you're afraid he's going to actually run out of
  • [29:38] Keith: your stick around to have sex. Boy, I don't mind if that's the only sex we end up having on like a first date or something, But
  • [29:43] Keith: oh that second date or third data. Don't you think most people would mind?
  • [30:03] Keith: So what I think happens when you stop the women from like just you know kissing all the way down your body, whatever and you say like that's not my favorite. I think what they're hearing is that you definitely want to have the ivy sex and that you're thinking that they only want to just blow you and have you come and have that be it and you're trying to signal like no, I really want to be inside you.
  • [30:08] Mike: It's a great take for you, keith have you got to defend against that? So basically you're viewing it is manipulation.
  • [30:14] Keith: Yeah. Just like an examination at
  • [30:17] Keith: although that makes a lot of sense that that
  • [30:21] Keith: is how it would probably even predominantly be interpreted.
  • [30:30] Keith: So do you think I should add something to my spiel? Okay, so my spiel right now like hey you know this is really my favorite thing comma
  • [30:37] Keith: but I'm not trying to I'm not saying that just so that I can get into your pants.
  • [30:41] Keith: I think I don't think you should say that.
  • [30:43] Mike: I think you should try to find
  • [30:52] Mike: You should you should try to find a way to identify which women are in the 50% who are actually enjoying it and they aren't
  • [30:53] Mike: and
  • [31:03] Mike: Ask or say something clever that direction. And then let's say that you determine that the woman is in the 50% that enjoy it. I think you should show the fuck out and let her do it and enjoy it.
  • [31:06] Keith: Okay but what okay what's the question I can ask that will
  • [31:09] Mike: dispose maybe ali would have a thought on that, like what could
  • [31:10] Keith: I mean I
  • [31:13] Mike: know how you, how you persuaded me
  • [31:17] Mike: that you enjoy it. I mean the story about the movie
  • [31:24] Mike: the minute and a half in so I mean that's because and the reason the reason I was so convincing was that it was like
  • [31:31] Mike: it was a more casual scenario. It's basically like it sounded to me like you would be interested in doing that even knowing that like
  • [31:36] Mike: I've read posts on reddit where like women are like yeah, you know sometimes I just like to
  • [31:46] Mike: yeah, I mean, you know have his penis in my mouth for a while, like they just enjoy it um are my cup of tea. But you know, I mean that that that that was the sense I got there, but I don't know do you is there something that
  • [31:49] Mike: that a person could ask you where you feel like you could honestly
  • [31:50] Mike: um
  • [31:57] Mike: disclose your joy at this and not in a fraudster wouldn't be able to slip through like a blowjob capture what we're looking
  • [31:59] Keith: for.
  • [32:17] Keith: I think the problem is that anything that I could say keith would think that I could be making up. You know however vehemently I express my enjoyment that I could be lying. I think what he has to do is let them start and judge their you know, enthusiasm and skill and
  • [32:24] Keith: technique. But ali the faker is going to be more offended if I ended at that point than the non faker
  • [32:26] Keith: really.
  • [32:35] Keith: If you stop somebody mid blowjob and you're like, hey I want to be inside you, you think they're going to be offended that you have discovered that they're bad at giving blowjobs. I thought it was something more like
  • [32:41] Keith: they're they're doing this reluctantly but but specifically because they feel like they're supposed to
  • [32:46] Keith: and they must like me enough to like, you know, do this performance.
  • [32:55] Keith: And then if shortly into it, I detect there sort of not very good at it or not demonstrating the level of enthusiasm that I would prefer.
  • [32:57] Keith: And I sort of, you know,
  • [33:00] Keith: pull them back up north.
  • [33:04] Keith: They might get, they might feel insecure about that.
  • [33:12] Keith: I don't think, I think they'd be like, oh thank God he rescued me. Like that was all I had to do because if they're really if they're really doing it just because they think it's what you like
  • [33:20] Keith: as soon as they take that box for you and you're like, oh we can move on to P I. V. Do you think the right amount of time for me to wait to do that is
  • [33:23] Keith: mm
  • [33:25] Keith: Well I guess as long as it takes for you to figure out if
  • [33:30] Keith: if they're good at it or not? I mean a minute maybe? I don't know.
  • [33:31] Keith: I feel like,
  • [33:39] Keith: I feel like if I was going down on a woman and I was down there, I don't know, a minute. Uh if I was down there for 30 seconds
  • [33:43] Keith: and she like started pulling me up, I think my feelings would be hurt.
  • [33:48] Keith: I don't know. And then a minute a little bit less. So five minutes. Okay, fine, whatever.
  • [34:03] Keith: But I think five minutes is a long time. Yeah, Yeah, five minutes. I'm yeah, I would not be offended. But yeah, there's some goldilocks zone here where I'm getting the information I need, but I'm not hurting their feelings if I
  • [34:04] Keith: if I
  • [34:07] Keith: cease the activity.
  • [34:08] Keith: Yeah,
  • [34:27] Keith: I mean, I feel like another indicators, do they pay any attention to your balls while they're down there? I feel like somebody who really enjoys it or start by looking your balls maybe and like somebody who's doing it out of obligation, will I assume be disgusted by your balls and not even try? Nobody is disgusted by my balls, but this is good hypothetical,
  • [34:33] Mike: how far south do you think she should go even further
  • [34:38] Mike: or is it just so so ali is it fair to say that you always,
  • [34:40] Mike: there's always ball play for you.
  • [34:42] Keith: Not always. But
  • [34:49] Keith: I feel like if you want to like if you start with the balls and then go kind of back up the shaft to get it like, wet.
  • [34:50] Keith: Is there, is that
  • [34:56] Mike: what, what is compelling about a guy's balls?
  • [35:03] Mike: You're saying that you like doing it and you're saying, oh, hey, I integrate this, you're even putting it as part of your test of if someone likes it. And I'm thinking to myself, like,
  • [35:06] Keith: what's compelling about his shaft?
  • [35:07] Mike: No, that's
  • [35:13] Keith: coming. I mean, either you, like,
  • [35:33] Keith: we're getting nowhere here. What I think is compelling about the balls is, first of all, I don't have balls, I have no idea what that feels like. It seems from their reaction that it feels good to play with them and that's kind of like a mystery to me. I feel like it's high risk, High reward. Good ball play can be great, bad, can be quite bad.
  • [35:34] Keith: Yeah,
  • [35:36] Keith: I'm sure. Yeah,
  • [35:45] Mike: Yeah, I just don't, yeah, I actually find it just high risk. I don't even see much. It's high risk, low reward, in my opinion. I'm surprised you can see it's high reward key.
  • [35:49] Keith: I've had a ball play in the past that I've, I've appreciated.
  • [35:55] Mike: Oh, that's right, by the way, uh just as an aside, like I was going to offer up the porn, I did find
  • [36:04] Mike: God, I should post it in the show notes for people. I did find the porn where the guy puts his balls in the woman's anus and his penis in her vagina at the same time and I was going to show that
  • [36:05] Mike: Yeah,
  • [36:08] Mike: but then I decided that it might bother ali
  • [36:12] Keith: I just feel like that would be uncomfortable for both parties, think
  • [36:14] Mike: it's terrible, everybody's unhappy.
  • [36:15] Keith: The
  • [36:21] Mike: best part is when he pulls his balls out it stretches because her anus is tight.
  • [36:23] Keith: Alright, yeah,
  • [36:24] Mike: sorry about that,
  • [36:25] Keith: Sorry. Yeah, I
  • [36:27] Mike: apologize everybody I
  • [36:28] Keith: can ask you,
  • [36:35] Mike: can I ask you a question ali so when you, there's some choices of language you use that are interesting to me. One example was
  • [36:50] Mike: well, okay, you said that you you ask a guy if you can lick him, which doesn't actually doesn't, I think suck would be a better choice because lick sounds very much what you would do to a woman, but actually the more interesting one to me was the choice of I want you inside me,
  • [36:55] Mike: which I don't know what keith take is, and I also don't know whether that's part of your dirty talk repertory,
  • [36:56] Mike: but
  • [37:04] Mike: uh I don't I don't find that keith what was I mean, I I think that you need to amp that up a little or say something
  • [37:16] Mike: more exciting to the guy that for some reason the phrase inside me feels very like um it feels very much like a thing a woman says when she's trying to sort of hide herself, like sort of like
  • [37:19] Mike: it's very like cloaked, don't know, keith, you have a take on that
  • [37:19] Mike: I
  • [37:30] Keith: do, I do not like the word lik lik has become, it has become like, it's become a common euphemism amongst uh
  • [37:31] Keith: the millennial crowd
  • [37:36] Keith: to refer to going down on a man. I would rather hear something has.
  • [37:38] Keith: Yes, Yes,
  • [37:39] Mike: but okay,
  • [37:46] Keith: I agree. It's it's annoying. Word choice. I mean like, you have discussed around a lot of like, you hate the words like eating out or
  • [37:52] Mike: Oh yeah, that's discussed. I remember in high school, a girl, Yeah, he said that to me, I was like, no, I don't want to anymore.
  • [37:56] Keith: How do you feel about much muncher box? Oh God,
  • [37:57] Mike: it isn't it
  • [38:00] Mike: isn't that chow is the reverb there?
  • [38:19] Keith: I think all those are bad, I think, can I suck you is a good note. I think that I could easily substitute that. What I don't want to say is like, can I give you a blowjob sounds to transactional and and I suck your dick sounds too like raunchy or like, you know,
  • [38:20] Mike: that's what the guy wants.
  • [38:23] Keith: Yeah, could you say I want to feel you in my mouth.
  • [38:28] Keith: Sure, I can see that. Yeah, I think that's better. I would like that.
  • [38:46] Mike: It's the use to me, the euphemistic use of you and me like inside me, you in my mouth. I don't like that. Look, it's just it's just like, it's just a I don't know, it feels like it's too much like your personal anthropomorphizing, it's something you're basically putting the entirety of the person in their genital,
  • [38:56] Keith: it's a syntactic e of the dick. How about more specificity? Because like that you would think like, well does she want my fingers? Does she want my dick?
  • [38:58] Mike: I know what she's saying. Is that it
  • [39:02] Mike: what? Mostly it's that like it's this like sort of cloaked language
  • [39:04] Mike: or it's like look like
  • [39:07] Mike: it's more fun for a guide to hear a girl
  • [39:11] Mike: say something nastier I think. I mean keith could think
  • [39:24] Keith: that's right. Like if she said, yeah I want to feel you in my mouth or I'm really excited to taste. You might want to I want to feel your penis inside my mouth. He wants the exact construction.
  • [39:27] Keith: I would like your penis gently pleased to top my tongue.
  • [39:32] Mike: I think of what our guest eric said for his dirty talk toward women. I can't.
  • [39:34] Mike: Yeah, but he's always like this
  • [39:35] Keith: was more demeaning.
  • [39:44] Mike: Yeah. It was like you whore, Wait a minute, what way, keith what's your take on
  • [39:52] Mike: feel you inside me or whatever. She said like there must be something I want you inside me that doesn't strike you bad. Like you wouldn't rather like have her say like
  • [39:54] Mike: fuck me
  • [39:59] Mike: both of those would be fine. I think the second is better. But okay so you're you're okay. I really
  • [40:02] Keith: don't struggle. We're talking about P. I. V. Here, right?
  • [40:04] Mike: Yeah. I don't
  • [40:12] Keith: struggle to believe that that's something they want and so it's not a language that is not as important to me
  • [40:16] Keith: but there are specific word choice around.
  • [40:23] Keith: Let me get this straight asking me to give me asking me if it's okay for them to give me a blow job. Like the specific word choice there matters. Like
  • [40:30] Keith: if it's tepid I'm less likely to believe that that's what they want and if I don't believe it I mean I don't
  • [40:31] Keith: madam
  • [40:34] Keith: I'm sort of ambivalent about it. I'm not ambivalent. It's it's confusing, it's
  • [40:39] Mike: complex really. Have you ever given a blow to a guy who didn't like it or didn't want blows?
  • [40:44] Keith: Well we talked about last time who said he came when he didn't, presumably that guy I think
  • [40:47] Mike: he was just on antidepressants. I think he couldn't
  • [40:59] Keith: view on that guy. I'm considering writing to him like this has come up again years later. He's explained, yeah. Other than that. I mean
  • [41:09] Keith: I've given blowjobs. Two guys who didn't come from the blow job and we moved on to P. I. V. I haven't given a blow job to a guy who was like that was terrible. You know like I mean I've never gotten negative.
  • [41:11] Mike: That's a great move. I should do that.
  • [41:14] Keith: Yeah that was terrible, Clarify things.
  • [41:14] Mike: You suck,
  • [41:18] Keith: You suck. No pun intended.
  • [41:20] Keith: Yeah. And
  • [41:23] Mike: we and another thing keith you said that
  • [41:24] Mike: you made it very clear er
  • [41:26] Mike: earlier that
  • [41:31] Mike: it was important to you or like that you you had this idea that the woman definitely didn't want the guy to come
  • [41:35] Mike: from the blow, but I think yeah, I think that's also another misunderstanding that I think we need to
  • [41:36] Keith: litigate this further as
  • [41:42] Mike: well. I think that women, like, I think that women, like I personally think that women,
  • [41:50] Mike: okay, there is like an IQ aspect to it, but there's that goes both ways, but I think that I personally think that the um
  • [42:00] Mike: that feeling the guy, I've always thought that feeling the guy ejaculated your mouth must like sort of connect you to the guy in a certain way. That's compelling. I don't know, I don't know if ali has a take on that,
  • [42:02] Keith: I'd like that. Yeah,
  • [42:03] Keith: okay.
  • [42:07] Keith: Wait, alright fine look, alright, let's say you're on your fifth
  • [42:17] Keith: sexual encounter with a person, so we're separating the, well I'm not really comfortable having, you know, vaginal sex with him yet. You've done that already and
  • [42:18] Keith: okay,
  • [42:21] Keith: you're starting the encounter, you're blowing him.
  • [42:22] Keith: Mhm.
  • [42:24] Keith: And
  • [42:35] Keith: yeah, like what amount of time? And should he, I mean, I think the answer is he should not finish and there's some amount of time after which he should be like, okay let's move on
  • [42:37] Keith: and he should he should
  • [42:38] Keith: make that
  • [42:48] Keith: call, right? Like he should be the one that's like, I don't like double taps you on the head or whatever, but it's like okay let's move on to the next thing on the menu,
  • [42:51] Keith: so I enjoy it, if he finishes, you know, if he
  • [42:54] Keith: can, I guess finish
  • [42:58] Keith: if you want something else or if he thinks that I would feel better.
  • [43:03] Keith: I'm not offended if you know, a minute into it or something. He says like,
  • [43:08] Keith: you know, he don't know, pulls me up for it says like, can we
  • [43:29] Keith: do something? I don't know. I struggle to find what words would be used here. But how do you know whether you're supposed to be blowing him to completion or not? You don't, you're just sort of, I don't, yeah, I always go into it thinking it will be to completion and that it's up to him interesting. I feel like most blowjobs
  • [43:32] Keith: are not given with that goal.
  • [43:33] Keith: Huh?
  • [43:45] Keith: Well that could be an indicator if you, if you feel like she's going in very tentatively, like hoping you're going to stop her then probably she's one of those people who doesn't enjoy them. I don't know if it's tentative, It's more like
  • [43:50] Keith: she thinks that this is the thing you're supposed to do during foreplay.
  • [43:51] Keith: Yeah,
  • [43:55] Keith: I mean,
  • [44:00] Keith: yeah, I don't know, I don't know how you tease that out. Like one thing that I will say where maybe I
  • [44:10] Keith: feel similarly to you is that sometimes when I'll start giving a blowjob, a guy will say something like, particularly if it's like a new partner that's like, like that you're really good at that or you know, something to those effects.
  • [44:12] Keith: I do often think like
  • [44:19] Keith: he must say that to everyone or you know, not that he's lying but like that must just be a line. So I see where you're coming from in the sense that
  • [44:21] Keith: there's so
  • [44:22] Mike: they're women who are doing that.
  • [44:23] Mike: Their women are
  • [44:28] Keith: there. But there's two things there mike. The first is there is big variance in
  • [44:30] Keith: blowjob ability
  • [44:36] Keith: and also men are likely to say that every partner they have is pretty good at it. Well I would be anyone know about
  • [44:47] Mike: that. I don't know about that because like, well that's because you're not uh you're you're you're anti it anyway. But I think that like if you're a guy who likes it, you don't want to like lie to her because then you get into this pickle. If you
  • [44:58] Mike: enter a longer term relationship where like she's going to be like, well know what I do is great and you're like actually it's not and now it's a little bit like it's a little like faking an orgasm for a woman honestly like yourself encouraging bad behavior.
  • [45:02] Mike: You are. It's like how do you how do you ever fix that?
  • [45:03] Keith: Um
  • [45:05] Keith: Yeah, but I think men,
  • [45:09] Keith: okay mike, I think most men's instinct is to
  • [45:11] Keith: care about the other person's feelings.
  • [45:13] Keith: Uh And they might,
  • [45:16] Keith: yeah, they might paint themselves into a dangerous corner.
  • [45:23] Mike: It could happen. It could happen. But I just want to assure alley that there are women that are terrible at it. It has to do with like not using the right amount of pressure.
  • [45:27] Mike: Um Not yeah, like to light to like
  • [45:31] Mike: just sort of not doing any, not doing enough basically.
  • [45:39] Keith: Well that's my exact feedback for guys who are giving me oral sex when I don't like it. I almost always feel like there's not enough pressure and like
  • [45:47] Keith: I think I think that various I've had people I Yeah
  • [45:49] Keith: um okay,
  • [45:52] Keith: are we done with this? That that provides a
  • [46:07] Mike: kind of my last thing, I wanted to establish their keith is just like this general point that there are definitely a substantial, it's not just that there's maybe half of women who like doing it, but also there's a very substantial percentage of women that enjoy
  • [46:08] Mike: genuinely enjoy
  • [46:11] Mike: having a guy ejaculate in their mouth.
  • [46:12] Mike: Ali is one of
  • [46:20] Keith: Yeah, and I think, I think the takeaway is that Keith, you should let them do it for a minute or even for 45 seconds or something and you might be pleasantly surprised, it might be
  • [46:25] Keith: extremely good and enthusiastic, in which case you can rest assured. I think they're with someone who at least
  • [46:42] Keith: you know give blowjobs enough that they probably enjoy it and if it's not and you can, you know elsewhere, like a second, I mean the first issue is I need to believe that they want to do it. And then the second issue is I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to be trying to come or not.
  • [46:45] Keith: Yes.
  • [46:48] Mike: It doesn't matter that much. I mean, yeah. I mean like yeah,
  • [46:50] Keith: this is a person that like
  • [46:52] Keith: for example,
  • [46:56] Keith: you know is multi orgasmic. Yes. We're both gonna argue that doesn't exist.
  • [47:07] Mike: It doesn't exist. Is that like you're creating a little fantasy land there. Like for the most part, like they don't, I don't think women think about this the way that you're thinking about it like where it needs to be stage managed. I mean
  • [47:15] Mike: Even if you did, you can simply wait like 20 minutes and then you'll or whatever. Like there's some period of time after which you'll be yes.
  • [47:22] Keith: I also think that even if you're trying to come during that blowjob, like you're probably not going to come in the 1st 30 seconds so
  • [47:24] Keith: you still have enough time to evaluate.
  • [47:27] Keith: Yeah. No, but All right, fine. First off
  • [47:45] Keith: saying that I could just wait 20 minutes and go again. Well now I'm just back in the same problem. What if she starts starting to blow me again? It's like, well, yeah, it's a point. You're supposed to be infinitely you're supposed to be selfless. And
  • [47:50] Keith: my argument by general argument is that receiving your job as a selfish act
  • [47:52] Keith: and I don't like that. And
  • [47:57] Keith: And you're saying you can't go down on her while you're waiting the 20 minute refractory period.
  • [47:58] Mike: I could. It's
  • [48:01] Keith: hard. It's hard. Certainly not as fun when I'm not
  • [48:12] Mike: aroused. I'll tell you all of the, all the reticence you have about a guy giving you oral, Ali would all be pretty well justified in that situation. You know, he's not enjoying just like, let's just go read a
  • [48:16] Keith: book. Uh
  • [48:16] Keith: Yeah.
  • [48:17] Keith: Mhm.
  • [48:27] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like this is a minefield and yeah, I don't know what comes after step three, which is like once I, once I can properly evaluate whether I'm supposed to come or not,
  • [48:31] Keith: there's probably like another step. I just haven't done. I haven't had enough blowjobs to like, you
  • [48:40] Mike: Know, generally and this is a thinking is like, I think, I think this is more than 90% of guys is if the question is, when AM I supposed to come?
  • [48:43] Mike: The answer is always yes.
  • [48:48] Keith: Yeah. But you're saying like, do I say like, do you want me to come in your mouth or something? And then, you know, keep in mind,
  • [48:50] Keith: okay, you could just do it
  • [49:00] Keith: mike remember our last episode where there was that guy who kept the statistics on his, on his sex having with his wife and she had
  • [49:08] Keith: 3.8 orgasms per sexual encounter. Yeah. That was tied that that is likely horseshit.
  • [49:13] Keith: If it is true, then if if her man is
  • [49:22] Keith: Orgasm ng in the first four minutes of, you know, most sexual encounters, like, you know, I don't know how she's going to get two or 3, 3.8 organism.
  • [49:35] Mike: I mean ali probably knows the name of this uh logical fallacy you're using there but like you're you're you're generalizing from a situation that's extraordinarily improbable. The I forget whether it's like masters and johnson or whatever but like your kinsey like
  • [49:52] Mike: the average number of orgasms for a woman procession is more like 0.5 not 3.8. So it's not so like the thing that yeah okay if you're going to generalize from insane data, yeah you're going to get some insane results and I cannot I will never be able to explain
  • [50:11] Mike: how every one of your partners always orgasms from P. I. V. Has called orgasms. My only like like I'm sorry about this but not my claim. That is not my claim anyway. If that were your claim to the extent that that's your claim, my only possible reaction is that you are very credulous and our trick too often. I don't know. I just
  • [50:14] Mike: because it just doesn't you know
  • [50:16] Keith: I agree with that with that analysis.
  • [50:32] Keith: There we go. The election of that post to was that they only had sex like three times a month. And yet somehow she's coming 4-5 times the session. Like why doesn't she bugged him to have sex and more if it's that successful. Yeah. I mean there were a number of problems with
  • [50:34] Mike: you know the answer right? She's having to fake four times. I
  • [50:37] Keith: mean
  • [50:38] Mike: just yeah
  • [50:40] Keith: that refractor
  • [50:51] Mike: acting skills. It's so annoying. It's got to be I mean this is like like like this is the thing, it's like ali much more comports with me with with what I would see and think of a
  • [50:59] Mike: a woman who is enjoying sex. Like she has one orgasm like a normal person and she enjoys a whole bunch of the act. It's great. It sounds like a very healthy
  • [51:01] Keith: healthy
  • [51:08] Mike: except for this thing about finding or along you too intimate. That's weird. But
  • [51:10] Keith: well maybe I just haven't found the right guy.
  • [51:14] Keith: I don't think it's Yeah, you
  • [51:15] Mike: need a hairless man.
  • [51:20] Keith: I do wonder about that. I always have stubble on my face. Yeah,
  • [51:21] Mike: I have very little.
  • [51:25] Keith: I I asked, I've asked people and they always say it doesn't bother them, but
  • [51:27] Mike: they're lying.
  • [51:28] Mike: How can an honor?
  • [51:31] Mike: All right. You wanted to, you wanted to move on. We should, Yeah,
  • [51:33] Keith: Yeah. 15 getting
  • [51:34] Mike: blowjobs. But okay,
  • [51:44] Keith: this is sort of related to something we were talking about and this person says my ex was angry because I only came with my vibrator. This is sort of long. I can't remember if this is interesting. I'll start reading and if it's boring, what's up.
  • [51:49] Keith: All right. So I'm a 23 year old female and in my life I only came once during sex with my now ex
  • [51:56] Keith: I came by him using a vibrator and obviously this was very intense to me given that the first time someone saw me having an orgasm
  • [52:03] Keith: after I came, he sat down and was angry with me because it wasn't him who made me or Oh yeah that's right. So she goes into to length about how her
  • [52:05] Keith: boyfriend is mad that
  • [52:12] Keith: she needs a vibrator. I don't want to talk about that in his insecurities. What's percentage of women
  • [52:20] Keith: Need a vibrator to come and like what was happening in the 1800s where they're just like far fewer orgasms being had?
  • [52:27] Mike: Well ali maybe you could enlighten us about female hysteria. I'm sure you're up on that. Okay
  • [52:33] Keith: yeah women would go to the doctor and like whatever their problem was the doctor and say well you need basically to orgasm and the doctor would
  • [52:37] Keith: finger them until they came. So the doctor was super popular.
  • [52:37] Keith: Uh
  • [52:38] Mike: huh
  • [52:41] Mike: It sounds like a fantasy. You could have maybe
  • [52:45] Keith: possibly sound bad.
  • [52:49] Keith: I mean to answer your question, I I assume that most women
  • [52:52] Keith: start masturbating at least just with their fingers.
  • [52:53] Keith: So
  • [52:54] Keith: you know just the
  • [52:55] Mike: rope in gym class.
  • [53:11] Keith: That's hard to, first of all, they walk the gym after school. So like to stop the teeming hordes of women trying to right there's only one rope, what are you going to do way.
  • [53:22] Keith: But so I mean I would assume that almost, you know, I would assume that 80% of women or something can come from their fingers and then some find that they like the vibrator more. Whoa, 80% of women who can come.
  • [53:25] Keith: I think there's I don't I don't even know if 80% of women
  • [53:28] Keith: have ever had an orgasm. Really?
  • [53:40] Mike: Well, this is a this is a subject of some debate, right? Because they're that gets back to this question of whether women are under, whether they're the physiological and psychological descriptions match.
  • [53:45] Mike: But but yeah, I mean, there's a substantial percentage. I'm a little curious about ali what? So
  • [53:59] Mike: I'm assuming that you're mentioning fingers switching over to a vibrator. What? Because that was your life experience? Uh what what was it like the first time you actually, I assume you've used a vibrator. What? The first time you used one.
  • [54:03] Keith: I've used a vibrator and I don't like it. It didn't
  • [54:07] Keith: work as well. So I still only use my fingers.
  • [54:11] Keith: But I know that there are some people who prefer the vibrator. I'm just assuming that everybody starts
  • [54:15] Keith: what is the problem?
  • [54:16] Keith: It just it wasn't
  • [54:19] Keith: the right sort of,
  • [54:23] Keith: I guess pressure movement.
  • [54:28] Mike: Come on, give us more details. We're men. We would well, imagine you're your groin,
  • [54:31] Mike: right? What's going on here?
  • [54:47] Keith: So I guess one thing, like it was not an expensive vibrator. It was a vibrator that I won as a prize in pub trivia, which will tell you everything you need to know about. It was in like the lower mission, I think about it.
  • [54:58] Keith: Oh maybe they also get a vibrator. It was a team thing. And so like if you won, you all went and reached into like a bag of prizes basically and pull something out. And so like the thing that I pulled out was a vibrator.
  • [55:00] Keith: There is
  • [55:02] Mike: an external only.
  • [55:04] Keith: It was kind of like the rabbit I guess.
  • [55:04] Mike: All right.
  • [55:12] Keith: All right. So I'm saying that because I'm saying maybe because this was a cheap vibrate or whatever, but I felt like the vibration was
  • [55:17] Keith: not really doing much that it was not intense enough or not.
  • [55:19] Keith: So the fires are
  • [55:25] Mike: rabbit. I'm not surprised at all. That wouldn't work for you because it's like basically it has these little ears
  • [55:29] Mike: basically. It's like it's very yeah, it's a very gentle light thing. But like
  • [55:39] Keith: wait hold on. Can't you control the pressure by sort of smashing it into something that does the motor stall out? Like what what happens?
  • [55:40] Keith: Um
  • [55:57] Keith: I guess you could press it in more. The thing is though that that starts to be a different kind of sensation of like you know just like a couple frontal like smashing you don't want. I feel like what I enjoy more is like stroking kind of like the sides of the clip which the vibrator isn't doing really
  • [55:58] Keith: mm
  • [56:01] Mike: When you say stroking, could you be more specific?
  • [56:05] Keith: Well like running like running your index finger up and down the
  • [56:09] Mike: Yeah, but you said you wanted, you said you wanted pressure also. That's what confused me. Well
  • [56:11] Keith: maybe she applies the pressure from the side.
  • [56:15] Mike: That's what I was wondering. Is it like you actually grip it? Like it's a very small penis or like
  • [56:18] Keith: No, no, I don't I don't grip it. I only use like
  • [56:40] Keith: one of the side of the index finger. But I guess I was writing in a little bit, I've heard that of the finger. You know, I read in the four our body that one side. Yeah. This guy did like this extensive thing and one side was reliably better. Yeah, I read that too. I mean I'm right handed so I use my right index fingers. I guess I'm using like the
  • [56:46] Keith: the left side of your finger. Yeah.
  • [56:54] Mike: So I'm trying to picture this. Okay, so you kind of get in the groove there and when you say you like a lot of pressure. So the pressure is down or to the left or both
  • [56:56] Keith: mm hmm.
  • [56:57] Keith: To the left.
  • [56:59] Mike: You can just sort of do it and tell us what you're doing.
  • [57:04] Keith: But then like eric you would not know whether maybe I've been through this whole time.
  • [57:15] Keith: I think the pressure is kind of to the left. It's not like it's not like I'm trying to push it over right. It's like it's just if you imagine that your finger was like a pencil eraser or something. You're trying to erase something. It's like that kind of pressure
  • [57:20] Mike: and you go up and down meaning toward your belly button away and towards your
  • [57:22] Mike: vagina?
  • [57:25] Keith: No, Well
  • [57:32] Keith: if if you imagine the clinton is like a little penis. Yeah. If you imagine that as a little penis, it's like I'm going from the base to the
  • [57:38] Keith: top based of the head along the Yeah, that's up and down. Okay. Yeah.
  • [57:39] Mike: Uh huh.
  • [57:42] Mike: You know, I'm confused. Hang on, I'm confused. When you say up and
  • [57:43] Keith: down the picture. Is that?
  • [57:49] Mike: No, no, no, no. I have a picture in my head, but when you say, when you say up, where is up
  • [57:50] Keith: toward the,
  • [57:54] Keith: like what would be the head of the glands, like of the clip.
  • [57:59] Mike: Okay, but that's away from your, the part of your body.
  • [58:00] Keith: No. Yeah,
  • [58:04] Mike: it's down. It's just what I would consider away from your belly button.
  • [58:07] Keith: Okay. Yeah, but my belly button like higher. Also
  • [58:15] Mike: generally like a compass rose here. Like you got your feet, your belly button is north, south and north. And you're moving sort of south and north
  • [58:20] Mike: with diagonal pressure. Okay. I can, I can really imagine that. Okay,
  • [58:24] Keith: but I have had partners that prefer more east west.
  • [58:26] Keith: Okay.
  • [58:29] Keith: Could you masturbate going east west, do you think?
  • [58:30] Mike: Um
  • [58:33] Mike: maybe hers is more prominent? And so like that would be sort of like, you know, I
  • [58:35] Keith: mean there's probably a number of factors here.
  • [58:48] Keith: Yeah, I mean, I guess, what would you mean like going east west just across like the very tip of it or just you would be, Yeah. So you're using your right index finger, you would sort of be going like over and back and forth.
  • [58:52] Mike: I think she must have a pretty big. I think you must have a pretty big clip.
  • [58:57] Keith: I know what you like. What? Well,
  • [59:00] Mike: doesn't this sound big? I
  • [59:06] Keith: can no, I don't know what data points you have here that you're using to imply that it might be bigger.
  • [59:09] Mike: Oh, just the issue of like uh
  • [59:10] Mike: like
  • [59:16] Mike: the sort of like the fact that when you talk about east west, like it's not sort of obvious to or what that is
  • [59:22] Mike: makes me think like, well, a lot of women, like it's a little enough area that it's just kind of obvious because you're just like sort of
  • [59:27] Mike: manipulating over this pretty small area. Whereas if it's bigger, it's a little more like a finger.
  • [59:33] Mike: Right? And so it's like you have like the and also the fact that she talked about having a glands.
  • [59:43] Mike: Like I don't think most women think in those many, some women, I think some women don't think in those terms because the whole area is small enough that it's like, oh well they're not there aren't different regions. I mean it's just one area
  • [59:52] Keith: doing that just to help us. No big finger. I mean a finger is too big. It's like maybe the first joint of
  • [59:56] Keith: the little finger for like the first joint of the pinky or something like that would be like
  • [59:58] Mike: that's pretty bad. Okay.
  • [60:00] Mike: Yeah. Nice.
  • [60:08] Keith: I'm trying to think of the yeah. I'm trying to think of the east west prefers
  • [60:13] Keith: uh had smaller clips. I don't I don't remember. I don't remember.
  • [60:18] Mike: The only the only data point that I have about that kind of stuff is I know
  • [60:30] Mike: oh that the distance between and you can measure this if you wanted to alley the distance between the tip of your clit and your vaginal entrance has something to do with whether you can orgasm from P. I. V.
  • [60:34] Mike: There is a statistical correlation there and I don't know exactly what the distance needs to be,
  • [60:40] Mike: but that's obviously unrelated to the east, west, north south. It needs to be shorter.
  • [60:46] Mike: Well keith it must be very short for the women. You day, you probably put it on your dating profile or something. Like only firm. Please
  • [60:49] Keith: send me your measurement uh specifically
  • [60:53] Mike: With 30. 30. You know,
  • [60:55] Keith: I
  • [60:59] Mike: need I need centimeters between like what
  • [61:01] Mike: what is your urethral? Clearest
  • [61:05] Keith: distance?
  • [61:08] Keith: Yeah. No, I did not. I did not know that.
  • [61:16] Keith: And mike, it's not okay, hold on. It's not that everyone's having like a zillion vaginal orgasms. It's you know, I also go down on people
  • [61:20] Keith: and I'm quite extras with my hands.
  • [61:34] Mike: I know I've known you a long time keith. And I've listened to a lot of your stories and your stories. The ratio, the percentage is what happened in your stories do not comport with, the percentage is observed by scientists. All right. Just like it's not
  • [61:37] Keith: all vaginal orgasms here
  • [61:40] Keith: or vaginal penetration. Or
  • [61:41] Mike: you
  • [61:47] Keith: said that like maybe half of it is vaginal. I'd have to think about the numbers, so I have to think about,
  • [61:48] Mike: you should make a spreadsheet.
  • [61:58] Keith: Yeah, it worked so well for that guy. Get to the front page of Reddit. I mean what a what a star.
  • [61:59] Keith: Mm.
  • [62:17] Keith: Uh Anyway okay, I think we've I think we've gotten as much as much as we can do here. Uh So that is what episode was this? This was episode 27 of your mileage may vary reminder, we pay $15 for feedback, we receive that y mm the pod at gmail dot com.
  • [62:20] Keith: Let us know how you'd like us to pay you in your email
  • [62:25] Keith: and we hope you enjoy the show and we're eager to have you back for our next episode and thank you Ali