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Episode 44: Virtual Reality Porn, After-Sex Pause, Facial Fetishes, Orgasm Ordering

Team YMMV | 11-30-2021 | 59:28

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Is it possible that a woman could enjoy using a dildo on herself that has a fake cum reservoir that, when squeezed, squirts simulated semen into her? We're sort of doubtful.

Same goes for women requesting their partners give them facials. Sure, a woman might accede to such a request, and even appear excited to do it. But in reality, she shouldn't want to.... Right? ... Right?

We revisit the topic of who orgasms first, an area where Ally had some issues which have now been corrected by Mike, much to her boyfriend's joy. And, we discuss whether a woman could enjoy going down on a man while he's using a VR headset to view content instead of paying attention to her.

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode (we started at 3:05 into the video):

https://ymmv.me/44/bad-dragon

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/44/vr-porn

https://ymmv.me/44/after-sex

https://ymmv.me/44/facial-request

https://ymmv.me/44/orgasm-order

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships I'm keith back from my 1 episode hiatus my co-host is mike thanks for taking the reins without me last week mike so I listened to the show while I was driving around costa rica and there were about.
  • [00:10] Mike: Sure, Thank you. It's great.
  • [00:19] Keith: Twenty things I wanted to relitigate but I'm old now and so I can't remember most of them but there was 1 1 thing that I that I do remember so Allie mentioned that she can't have penetrative sex orgasms right? am I remembering that right.
  • [00:33] Mike: Yeah, and I mean like let's be clear from my side of the fence on that that means Allie's a normal human female. It's either totally unusual or very unusual for women to be able to easily have penetrative orgasms and I would say that like the way. Primary way when women say oh yeah I can if they're being honest is some sort of grinding action right? where it's like they kind of get their pubic bone kind of trap their clip between their pubic bone and yours and kind of grind that's pretty common in my experience but like there's this other thing that women claim which is now now like a guy can just like have sex in the way that.
  • [01:00] Keith: Yes.
  • [01:12] Mike: Generally gets the guy toward orgasm and and the woman gets orgasms from that in that I'm always very suspicious yourself.
  • [01:15] Keith: Sure? Ah I mean we've litigated that plenty in the past I generally agree with that like if a woman is having sex from sorry having orgasms from penetrative sex. It's likely due to some sort of ah friction or pressure that she is assisting in applying. Her clit probably by grinding on your pubic bone anyway, but all right? So Allie does not have penetrated sex orgasms. Okay fine. But she also mentioned that she's never really tried to remedy that so like okay I can't really understand that if it were me I'd constantly be working. To unlock new ways of orgasming like she she said that the only way she ever orgasms is like basically lying on her back with her legs. You know in a certain position right.
  • [02:08] Mike: That's right I mean I Well, there's ah there actually I wanted to I don't normally police. People's vocabulary but here like saying that saying that she that a woman should remedy that is like ah is like telling a guy to remedy the fact that like when he gets kicked in the nuts it hurts. It's like look like they're Anatobby. That's how their anatomy works. It's like remedying the notion that they're you're gonna remedy not having orgasms from penetrative sex alone is sort of tricky because it's like it suggests that there's something wrong with female anatomy to begin with and and that's actually like I think part of the reason women start faking and so forth. But anyway like yeah, we I mean we discussed. Various methodologies I can't remember exactly what we discussed on the podcast I mean I talked separately to were also about like the the typical thing women can do where they lie in a bathtub and have like a stream of water raining down on them and she was that on the okay on the air fine and and then we talked about her using a dildo well in the sort of doggy style position.
  • [02:51] Keith: No, you guys you guys did that on air I think yes.
  • [03:02] Mike: And she sort of said she was going to consider doing that I'm I'm sure she won't though. Um, yeah.
  • [03:04] Keith: Right? But but this is my question Mike like why is she not like she said she had never tried the the shower head or the or the you know ah I understood what you were saying like the thing where she sort of like positions herself underneath the faucet in a bath.
  • [03:10] Mike: No.
  • [03:23] Keith: Ah, she hasn't tried either or that she's never tried masturbating like while on her on her hands and knees and I I can't understand the lack of curiosity there.
  • [03:33] Mike: Sure I mean you know, ah like I had a so I mean I think this is analogous to the fact that like it's very common in spite of the women on the sex subreddit who claim to start masturbating when they're 7 years old or whatever for women. It's actually much more common to like. Not masturbate until like they're in their twenty s or something like it's very common whereas for a man that's incredibly uncommon and as an example I had it was having a conversation ah about 10 days ago with a friend. We were discussing because even off the podcast. This is what I often discuss with people which is sort of sad on some level. But. Ah, we were discussing how we discovered masturbation it was in the context of me making some arguments like this about male female differences and both of us agreed that like at a certain age as a boy you like just have this like absolute urge to like you're like okay, there's something I'm not totally sure what in it keep in mind like when we were discovering masturbating like. Horrn was like more something you would see maybe on the computer maybe just in a magazine like it was much it wasn't like you know pornhub dot com and so you know yeah it was just like you know you know the general plot of sex from like sex Ed or maybe looking it up in an encyclopedia or something so you know what the plot is you know that your penis.
  • [04:33] Keith: Yes, yes.
  • [04:48] Mike: Getting erections more often and you know there's something you're supposed to do but it's not clear and so then yeah, think as a guy becomes this like thing this journey of discovery and this friend was saying like you know he thinks there's like an evolutionary advantage there which is like you know guys need to want to explore this because otherwise like they won't propagate their seed because it's like you need to do this. Flipside like for a woman There's basically no evolutionary advantage to being curious about specific methodologies of of of sex or pleasure seekking or any of that because it's like some guy is going to come along and impregnate you and so like I think the answer to this is like women at core. They're not faking and there's something weird about this. They just aren't as curious about this as men are. It's like you know it's not this this type of pleasure seeking is not as compelling to to a woman as to a man and they're much less likely to sort of like spend a bunch of time looking into it I also think like it doesn't help things or it doesn't make it more likely given that like their their genitals are sort of tucked away and less. Present in their lives right? I mean men are grabbing the penises all the time Regardless so I mean I just think it's like normal. It didn't surprise me at all that Allie said she hadn't ah she hadn't really like tried to amp up her orgasm experience. This is in fact, like most women it seems like when they want to amp it up. It's more like. In relation to a partner and either the partner hassles them about it or maybe they see the guy having this great experience and they're a little bit jealous.
  • [06:08] Keith: Okay, all right, do you think I mean we should have ah Allie back on to discuss this. But yeah I wonder what she would self-report about caring about having interesting or different orgasms like why? How would she explain her lack of curiosity.
  • [06:26] Mike: Yeah, okay I mean.
  • [06:28] Keith: Like I don't think she would say like well you know I'm just not that really interested in orgasms I think she would have some other um thought about it.
  • [06:35] Mike: I think it's you know I mean like I mean this is like a standard cultural trope right? I mean there's like a Seinfeld episode where ah you know Elaine the elaine character talks about how like for a woman sex is like taking out the trash. It's not very hard to get access to and it's just like this thing that he sort of. Do sometimes whereas for a guy. It's like this obsession. It's much harder to get access to in general and guys just generally are way more interested in it and so I think yeah I mean like I just think that's the reality like women are much more interested in like how do you have a good relationship or something like like the interpersonal dimension of like of how your relationship is and the sex is kind of like this thing that's like. There but it's not like central to it. Can I mention some other thing of another thing in relation to Allie. Yeah, so I just wanted to pat myself on the back after the episode those assiduous listeners out there will remember that I told I suggested to alie that she.
  • [07:16] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [07:31] Mike: Bring up with her boyfriend that having him come first, especially during penetrative sex and then asking him or expecting him to finger her sort of through his nut right? So you're imagining his load is actually still in her vagina. Guys probably generally don't like that a because they're in the sort of valley of despair of ah of um, post-nut clarity and b like they just don't want to interact in that comprehensive way with their own. Yeah yeah.
  • [07:56] Keith: Okay, hold on 1 second. So yes, so there's their standard ah recipe is they have Sex. He comes inside of her and then she expects him to digitally penetrate her until or digitally. Entertain her until she orgasms.
  • [08:18] Mike: That's right I mean she you know and basically her rationale here is she you know it's a little this is typical for women right? It's like so it takes longer. It's a little more complicated maybe requires stimulation for a period of time and she's like oh I don't want to you know, make him do that in the middle. Ah, right in the middle of him having.
  • [08:32] Keith: Impose that.
  • [08:36] Mike: Having sex she won and also she enjoys him having an orgasm and also importantly Allie does not her preference is not for male and receiving oral sex rather receiving oral sex from her her boyfriend therefore like figuring is sort of. Go to it would be a totally different story if like she wanted him to come in her and then give her oral right? after like that's a thing that very few men would be on board for and so I'd suggested on the episode that she asked her boyfriend if maybe he'd rather have her come first and in fact, he said he was she had been too shy to tell her that.
  • [09:12] Keith: Yeah I remember I heard it.
  • [09:12] Mike: Is I'm not making this up this sounds like insane given the the amount that people poke fun at my various theories here. But he said that he appreciated that and they apparently have I don't know how it's going. But I ah I think that that they're going to be having more fun now. So yeah.
  • [09:25] Keith: Do you think there's a trail of like Allie's exes that were sort of annoyed with this behavior out of her from her.
  • [09:32] Mike: Out of her and maybe maybe I mean I would definitely I be I mean partly, it's gonna be like being with a guy who's not willing to say something about this like I know like I would just be unwilling to do this. Ah i' just be like I'm not I'm not This is.
  • [09:48] Keith: Really, how would you? How would you communicate that.
  • [09:50] Mike: Have the order of operations wrong here I mean I be It's not that I'm unwilling to do it. It's that like it's clearly not what I oh ah, the way I would it would I would just simply not nud in her I'd be like she'd be trying to encourage me to not first and I'd be like no i. Like so we would either be some you know then would there be a conversation potentially that would arise but like I wouldn't I would know even in my aroused state that like this nut is going to be followed by like kind of this thing that I don't love doing and I'd be like hey like why don't we do you first? yeah.
  • [10:08] Keith: Right.
  • [10:20] Keith: Right? Yeah I Wonder if there's something about she feels more comfortable after he's he's orgasmed or something I mean even to the extent. That's true Maybe and maybe it totally isn't but yeah, like that. Increased Comfort can't be commensurate with like the increased disgust that the man probably feels.
  • [10:43] Mike: Yeah, she shouldn't well and there's another thing which is that like if you're I asked her this I asked her if like well is this like kind of the situation I always imagine with homosexual men where it's like if they're both if they both have the risk of falling into the post-nut clarity like only 1 of them has a good experience and the other 1 has to.
  • [11:01] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [11:03] Mike: You know has to cause the other 1 to orgasm during his post-nat clarity and she said no like she's still she's still fairly aroused after she comes and so I was like well this is a no-brainer then should you know flip it around.
  • [11:13] Keith: Yeah I mean look there was a there was a thing on reddit about this this week this this woman says I want to come second I think it's interesting. How everyone says the girl should come First. My boyfriend takes care of me after sex and I actually like it better I'm always too sensitive after I come and the sex doesn't feel as good. So yeah, this notion of being. Too sensitive is a thing that I've I've experienced with women but usually it lasts something on the order of a minute maybe maybe a few minutes.
  • [11:38] Mike: 1 Also the sensitivity is typically around the clit not around the vaginal entrance. So like it's not typically like as long you know like yeah if you're going to like pull out and like do some weird hot dogging motion where you're rubbing your cock against your clit sure.
  • [11:45] Keith: Um, right.
  • [11:55] Keith: Aggressively rubbing her clit. Yeah sure.
  • [11:57] Mike: Right? Or like some sort of grinding thing. But if if you return to the normal more normal thrusting behavior I don't think for a woman that matters as much and so yeah.
  • [12:05] Keith: Yeah I think that's right? Um, okay so that's Allie I I should go back and listen and like write down a point by point thing I want to discuss or maybe I'll do that before we have her come on next time but okay, so.
  • [12:18] Mike: I Just figured you'd be mad about the migrant Caravan Remark and the.
  • [12:23] Keith: Well, you made the remark you made that same joke like 4 times so you really? yeah, um I chuckled the first 1 point five times gathers jokes about several jokes about my penis size.
  • [12:26] Mike: Thank you I like to hammer those jokes home fifth.
  • [12:41] Keith: Some other things that I couldn't defend well but not being there. But no I thought you guys I Thought you guys were generally pretty good. Okay, so should we do should We do a porn viewing now or okay.
  • [12:50] Mike: Yeah I have a really tough to read watch porn. So I think we should I think we should get that out of the way as always. Yeah I mean it's like I try to bring people stuff. That's um, out of the norm kind of something you might not see every day.
  • [12:57] Keith: Okay, so get enjoyed the rest of the episode. Okay.
  • [13:09] Mike: Ah, so I'm going to put this 1 in the show notes as people can click on the Link. We always encourage people to pause the podcast and bring it up if they can if you're on the crowded Subway or at Thanksgiving dinner with your family. Maybe don't do that because they're not going to want to see this and we'll go to 3 5 Ah, 3 minutes and five seconds into this porn and yeah, let me know when you've got it up and ready and I will narrate it all right? So a woman has attached to a mirrored door A very large dildo that she's fillating.
  • [13:31] Keith: Um I I'm ready to go so let's ah, let's start in 3 2 1 pressing play.
  • [13:44] Keith: Very large.
  • [13:46] Mike: And she's rubbing it and fillating it like it's a man this hard to imagine how this thing works Now she stopped. She's rubbing again. Oh now she's sort of gagging. She's continuing to do it and now she turns to the camera and some stuff comes out of her mouth. It looks like semen.
  • [13:58] Keith: Wait. What.
  • [14:05] Mike: I'm starting to gag a little myself. She's back to fillating it again and now there's more of it in her mouth and let's pause it because I'm getting sick. Okay, so yeah, so I want to want note 1 other thing that coming down from the the dildos attached to a mirror door as I mentioned kind of horizontally and she's in front of it wearing a kind of Miccky mouse.
  • [14:12] Keith: Um, what is that substance.
  • [14:25] Mike: Or bat woman or something mask Catwoman maybe.
  • [14:29] Keith: It's somewhere in between Mickey Mouse and cat woman. Yes I think it's supposed to be Catwoman Yeah, but the ears and her mouse like.
  • [14:30] Mike: It is yeah and you'll notice. Yeah, you'll notice that the dildo has some kind of a it looks like ah maybe as if it were a lamp with a lamp cord. Yeah, but it's a tube and the idea here is this is a okay this is something that a woman in my.
  • [14:41] Keith: That's a tube. Yeah.
  • [14:49] Mike: Estimation would never want. It's something that must feed into I think a male fetish and basically there's a tube where you put some come-like substance into a bulb that you can squeeze and then it comes out like the bulb-like thing in a man the prostate and so she's she's squeezing it into her mouth and then. Ruling it out and that's supposed to be attractive. In fact, for me, it makes me gag how how about you? keith.
  • [15:14] Keith: I Detest this um I that you're right I Okay, this must be indulging some male fetish but it's just such a weird.. It's so obviously fake right? So like the. Any like I think some men enjoy like demeaning women with their come like in their mouth or on on her face but this is fake come and it's so performative that it I can't really understand how somebody would find this compelling.
  • [15:47] Mike: Right? I mean as soon as I see the substance I'm immediately thinking to myself. What is this substance like that's the problem right? It's like what because I know it's not I mean like even if it was from a man like it's not actually coming from a man like the notion of like people. Storing semen somewhere and then squeezing in their mouth is also revolting So It really doesn't matter what the substance is like it. It's just and but then I wonder what is it right.
  • [16:10] Keith: Yeah I mean this whole thing is bizarre look this this piece of apparatus exists right? like this thing that has the tube that goes up and like somehow the pumping motion that she's applying to this dildo like causes. Whatever the fluid is to come up the tube. Down the dildo and into her mouth like this. This isn't some esoteric thing like this thing looks like it's mass produced like this isn't the only 1 of these in the world this this is a this is a thing please do or maybe don't.
  • [16:37] Mike: Yeah let me call your attention to a couple other things. This is a bad dragon which is a a yeah well there there is so there's another element to this which um I know because I'm a bad person and that is that. Ah. The the the dildo itself is sort of cylindrical like all dildos but it has like sort of bulbs on it that kind of look like a guy's nuts but they're like 2 wo-thirds of the way down it god and that's supposed to oh I do oh I do that's supposed to resemble. What's called the not.
  • [16:53] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Yes, you know what? this is this is a thing. Oh my.
  • [17:08] Mike: Not of an animal's penis now some animals like a dog for example, have a part of their penis that enlarges to sort of lock their partner and them together for a period of time. This is why after dogs copulate Sometimes they're like stuck together and so part of.
  • [17:19] Keith: Oh my gosh.
  • [17:25] Mike: Part of what the the the fantasy here is that it's it was's supposed to be a dragon's penis. Not a dog's but is that like you jam this kind of like thicker part in and then you actually get stuck to it again. So if anyway I mean you can imagine the the plot here for dogs It just means like you'll see the comical thing that you sometimes. Very occasionally see because most dogs are not fertile at least in the United States where they're like stuck together but they're facing opposite directions and they like literally can't separate and they don't really know what's going on because they're stupid. Um, yeah, and this is this is like someone fetishizing bad as Well. Like this sort of like.
  • [17:56] Keith: They're stuck.
  • [18:03] Mike: Again I'm not yeah I'm not totally sure who is taken in by that fetish. But that's what that's what those sort of bulbs are about and then so so you know you could imagine the yeah.
  • [18:07] Keith: Okay, so this still do all that Let let me just so just pause for clarity here. So this dildo is made to look like I mean an ah an animal's penis in this case, a dragon is she calls it. Ah she calls it Her bad dragon or huge.
  • [18:19] Mike: Correct. No, that's that's that's the product name. That's the product name. You can buy 1 It's called a bad dragon. You can look online. That's the yeah.
  • [18:25] Keith: Huge bed dragon. Okay. Well thanks for this Mike this was um, this was terrific I had had seen this before I had seen I had seen like fake seamen before but this is a new.
  • [18:37] Mike: Um, just I mean there is yeah like I can understand yeah like I can understand the male point of view of like why this could be fetishized in a sense of like anything that like is sort of increasing the amount that's done to the woman at that point. So like the bulbs like sort of enlarging something in her when you're nutting seems somewhat compelling to me in principle but that's not how human anatomy works and so we're exiting the realm of humans at that point so that's a little hard to.
  • [19:02] Keith: Yeah.
  • [19:13] Mike: Understand and the and the fake semen is just disgusting like there's nothing positive about that. Yes, of course.
  • [19:15] Keith: Can you speculate it all. Can you buy fake seement I bet you can I bet it's for cam girls I bet they have a product that is fake seem and that they sell the cam girls and poured stars and whatever.
  • [19:24] Mike: Yeah I they're somewhat frequently I'll exactly somewhat frequently I'll see a porn where there's a oral scene and it doesn't look to me like the guy is actually nutting and then the woman has something in her mouth that looks fake that happens and I'm suspicious.
  • [19:38] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean whenever I see Semen I because I know that fake Semen exists I I do this like background processing in my mind which is like is this fake and it's a little irritating because I would just like to not have to do that and Semen does come. In different thicknesses and ah you know, color and sort of ooziness and so. You know it is possible that like you know you could have semen that's like really thick and it looks more gloppy and you know it is possible that it could be much thinner and it's you know a lot more runny. These sentences are coming out of my mouth. But ah yeah, it's It's also yeah, it's annoying that I have to consider that like it could actually be fake and you know.
  • [20:16] Mike: Um, right.
  • [20:27] Keith: It It doesn't look real because it isn't.
  • [20:30] Mike: That's right, Yeah, it's ah yeah, it's a thing that I consider the volume can make it and the consistency doesn't seem right like it's too uniform or something anyway and you can understand why they do it right? I mean it's like you can you can do more performances per day or whatever by having this fake.
  • [20:44] Keith: Oh yeah, sure no like women post these pictures to to reddit and they're like oh you know my my my man just came on me and you know it's like a picture of their face and there's quote unquote come on it and yeah I mean those those photos get some attention. So yeah I see the I see the incentive and I.
  • [20:46] Mike: Thing.
  • [20:59] Mike: True. Exactly.
  • [21:03] Keith: Understand why the product exists keep man imagine the man who like founded this company. That's so speak seamen he has to like you know, go go home to his family for Thanksgiving and they'll be like oh I was business. It's like oh you know we got to do. You know a cord starch ejector and you know I don't I don't know what? ah I don't know how they do it but you what a preposterous career. Ah.
  • [21:24] Mike: Yeah I've only interacted like once or twice with people that work in that kind of industry and it's always a little embarrassing for them because yeah, the thing they do is so weird. Yeah.
  • [21:30] Keith: Um, yeah, right? Yeah well and they probably get asked like the same four questions you know, maybe it gets a little boring for them to okay so we received um.
  • [21:41] Mike: Sure.
  • [21:48] Keith: I don't know ah a mildly interesting piece of of mail this week um we get a bunch of stuff but this 1 ne's sort of unusual and it's well okay, all right I'm going to read the p s first because I want I want to do that before we before we get to the body of his email. So this person said hello keith and mike and then they wrote some stuff. Um, ah his p s says maybe 1 other thing mike recently made a comment about the idea of having a painting made of keith masturbating and a few other related comments I've got to wonder have you guys done this together now I want to be clear about something we have not is this person. Are is our like sarcasm not obvious would would when you say things like that or is this person with.
  • [22:31] Mike: Now that wasn't sarcastic I did want to have a painting made and this wasn't because of it has nothing to do with it's it's a misunderstanding of the joke. The the painting I wanted to have made was of keith masturbating with lotion while watching the cleveland cavalier's plate basketball with Lebron james. On the team and this is because keith has an unhealthy it did have I don't know if he does anymore sort of an unhealthy almost fetish like relationship with that basketball team in that particular player. Yeah fetish fetish could be yeah.
  • [22:56] Keith: Okay, hold on pause pause. It is not a sexual fascination I was I was pleased I was pleased with the winds and glory that he brought to my to my to my formerly favorite team.
  • [23:07] Mike: Sure? But this is but this is like this is like an but this is like an artistic choice right? I mean it's like it's like if if somebody's throwing flower if you have a painting and someone's throwing flowers at someone. It's because oh they're victorious. It's not because they love flowers. Maybe they just want a battle or something and this is Keith. He loves watching this person so much that I'm imagining him artistically with like just lubed up and just oh yeah, he is so great and that was what I wanted it. We had nothing to do with wanting ah to see or interact with him masturbating. Yeah.
  • [23:35] Keith: Yeah, but this this this listener is confused about that and I'm wondering if there's like a whole ocean of listeners out there that are likewise confused.
  • [23:44] Mike: Definitely not confused. Ah it's just like ah people men get a horny about various things and you know have a lot of crazy ideas that come into their heads and so yeah, you know like people.
  • [23:58] Keith: Imagining us jerking off together is ah that's happening. That's a little hard to believe.
  • [24:01] Mike: Sure look it. It reminds me. It reminds me of like maybe this are maybe this listener is 1 of those those many legendary people who post men rather men who post solo videos of themselves to the gone wild tube subreddit and then like any woman. Like could be with a really ugly woman who posts on there. We'll get like four up votes five up votes. You know a good video will get a couple hundred a man always gets between 1 and infinity down votes meaning he has a zero score. Yes, well it'll show it zeroes you don't know.
  • [24:32] Keith: Right? Yeah negative. Whatever yeah.
  • [24:39] Mike: There's probably some api where I can find out how negative the person is and this reminds me of that. It's like somebody who doesn't realize how repellent to the average human the notion of 2 men beating off within proximity to each other is like it's yeah, it's why like you know, red light districts and adult theaters were sort of like.
  • [24:58] Keith: Right? right? Okay, all right? Well let's get into the meat of his email then he says the primary reason I'm sending you this message is to ask you guys to bring up a topic that as far as I know you've never really brought up labia.
  • [24:59] Mike: You know, shadowed people who want to check that out. Yeah, so.
  • [25:15] Keith: Um, the spectrum of tits ask guy I'm a labia guy. There's something very exciting to me about a woman's lips and especially the mystery of not knowing and guessing what a woman's labia will look like the popular opinion in Pom seems to favor innies. But there's also strong support in communities such as reddit's labia gone wild that enjoy big fit. Pick lips. Where do you guys? Fall does it matter to you? Do you have a preference or when you fantasize about a vagina. What does it look like ah I have some thoughts on this do would you want me to go first. Okay, take a sip of water here.
  • [25:45] Mike: Yeah, go for it.
  • [25:52] Keith: Um I think I prefer innies I think that um it doesn't matter that much like I've never turned down a vagina because I did like the ah the labial labal labial folds. But yeah, like from an aesthetic. Ah, standpoint I think in his are I think they're actually objectively more attractive I think that you know aggressive audis are kind of a little bit too meaty or organic but it sounds like this guy prefers that so maybe yeah, maybe okay. Objectively I think most men would prefer anys but I don't think Ben actually care that much like I don't think they ever noped out of the situation because of it.
  • [26:34] Mike: Yeah I think I think there are 2 different answers here. Answer 1 is like what what would you prefer if like it were like you know like an artistic situation like so you're not Horny. You're not aroused. You're not about to have sex with the person you're just like you know. Going through like ah pictures or videos of of women and I think in that case your preference is exactly right? Keith and I think that like that would be the most common preference. It makes sense because like the thing 1 of the things that men look at in female bodies. It's attractive to men is that that area of the body is much smoother much more streamlined than on a mant right? It's like there's a difference. There's a gender difference there and so like the more you can emphasize that the better and that's why like there's the nowadays very common practice of women sort of removing all their body hair as well like it's like you're creating this distinction. People will say oh it's didn't make yourself look like a child I'm not sure I actually think that's like that's that's a side effect of it. But I don't think that's the most important thing I think the most important thing is like creating a maximum gender distinction. Okay, now that being said now you switch to the other case which is like well what do you like when you're actually you know down and dirty like. Getting in there and I think in that situation. It gets a little more complicated because men like then feeling like they're sort of mastering the woman or like you well not just that. But it's like you you want to? There's like this like.
  • [27:54] Keith: In something.
  • [28:02] Mike: As as much as you you like part of the male fantasy I think involves taking this very beautiful object and then ruining it. It's like ah it's like that. Ah, there was a modern artist who like ah I forget which 1 but basically like his. 1 of his quote unquote works of art was erasing someone out like a drawing by another famous artist writes. It's an erased version and I don't want to say who I think it is because I'll get it wrong. It sounds stupid but like that. But you you get the same.. It's the same idea right? It's like you want to like take something that's a piece of art and like put your impact on it but your imprint on it Demolish it. And so in that context like having it then become more like anatomical is sort of compelling right? having it sort of fall apart because of the the but you've done you've beent your will to it and and and forced her to become less.. It's less less beautiful in some ways I think is like she's become disheveled.
  • [28:44] Keith: Okay.
  • [28:50] Keith: Okay, so like distending the the labia It can be attractive in that context.
  • [28:51] Mike: And I think the men get into that and it's I think yeah yeah or like or like if you yeah I mean like I think I think I think if you think about it like a male fantasy might be like that you have this perfect photo shoot. But then when you actually get in there like it's not yeah, you're like you're like tugging on things.
  • [29:05] Keith: It gets ruined right right? Red Red right.
  • [29:09] Mike: Yeah, well maybe not you know temporarily? So and so I think that like then like it's like oh well, you know if if it if it remained exactly pristine then well then you in my mind I imagine like a sex doll I like it's part of the problem with but there's a number of problems with sex dolls but 1 of them would be yeah, it does. It's unchanging like it doesn't react nothing happens when you.
  • [29:25] Keith: Right? right? Yeah I guess I don't know it looks pretty messed up regardless of the Inny or outiness of the lab but labia after I'm done.
  • [29:29] Mike: Put your behaviors into it I don't know how you feel about that analysis. Keith.
  • [29:41] Mike: Sure after you're done. What do you do to it that makes it get so messed up nice. You know.
  • [29:44] Keith: Um, no I mean there's just seamen and it's a mass you know? yeah this there's there's tearing and no um I do do a thing I Wonder if this is normal or not like if I'm in a situation where there's a like.
  • [30:01] Mike: It's not.
  • [30:03] Keith: If I'm in a situation where there's a lot of women in bikinis I will focus on their crotches and like try to see if I can figure out what their labia might look like like I'm looking for you know, evidenced? yeah.
  • [30:14] Mike: You Sure that's what you're thinking. So So I mean I think all men do that. But I think like what I've concluded about my behavior there is when I look at that. It's purely that I that there's a part of my brain that enjoys the gender difference like it's like a visual.. It's basically just. Just think it's my brain doing like a sorting function of like oh that's a female which means that like prehistorically that means like I would just run up and rape I Think that's what I think that's what that comes down to right? I mean that's what animals do right? It's not like so I think that's like there's a part of my brain that still wants to do that? yeah.
  • [30:34] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [30:45] Keith: Yeah, the the amygdala or Lizard brain or whatever. Yeah, so I think yeah I mean definitely what? Ah okay yeah, so I'm when I'm when I'm focusing on the crotch like that's there's something very instinctual about that. But I do think I'm doing like a background like model building where I'm like.
  • [30:49] Mike: Yeah, whereas if there's a penis there. It's not compelling. Yeah.
  • [31:04] Keith: Looking for little pieces of evidence and then trying to build a more complete model of of what their what their vagina might look like um like I'll look like around this is ah this is sort of nuts. But I mean I've told you before like I I sort of like like like.
  • [31:11] Mike: Huh.
  • [31:19] Mike: Imperfections.
  • [31:19] Keith: People's skin and like imperfect imperfections in it and stuff. But yeah like I'll look around their bikini line and look for like ingrown hairs and stuff like I'm I'm sort of like hunting for um, various data signals. So I can build a better model of of what's underneath.
  • [31:32] Mike: Yeah I mean I think like to me that's just like a your brain like you. You know that it's important. It's like there's something important about this area and so then you've decided like here's how you'll make it important. That's that's like your higher brain working on it like there are things I'm I'm not sure what I do but it's probably I don't do that specific thing but I'm sure there's some other thing that I do like a.
  • [31:39] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [31:52] Mike: Um, for me I always just feel like I fixate on like the smoothness or like the lack the lack of a penis you know which is more basic but but then I'm just given it's just like oh I like that I this is this is what I like. So.
  • [31:55] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [32:04] Keith: Yeah, okay, do you have a preference.
  • [32:08] Mike: I Don't think I do because of what I ah okay, hang on a sec I think that I think that I have the what I would consider the normal. This isn't very nice, but the normal preference which is that in the kind of artistic situation I prefer like basically nothing like I prefer the woman's body to look like an action figure like just.
  • [32:26] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [32:28] Mike: Smooth but in like in ah if you're actually engaged in in sex with the person I think I don't care because it's like yeah and and like I yeah I think I don't care with the exception that like I don't want it to be like it's a like a sex doll. Yeah.
  • [32:40] Keith: Yeah I met a woman on some app sometime in the last year and we never. We never actually met but she was pretty aggressive in sending nudes of herself I think she did I think she sold her pictures on oldie fans or something.
  • [32:55] Mike: And.
  • [33:00] Keith: And so but I don't know I don't know why I was getting them for free but whatever she was sending me. She was sending me pictures and she had fairly ah large outer Labian or is it the inner labia that stick out I can't remember whatever.
  • [33:18] Mike: It's inner Inner outer is just like the part that sort of stretches around the cot or whatever. It's like sort of yeah.
  • [33:19] Keith: Okay, yeah, so that's.
  • [33:22] Keith: Okay, all right all right? Sorry she had she had very beefy inner labia and um, she was really embarrassed about it like the before she said right? She's setting me nudes but before she says the first 1 she goes she says like you know like a four paragraph essay on.
  • [33:25] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [33:40] Keith: You know how she's embarrassed about her labia. You know she normally she doesn't normally share this with people and you know blah Blah Blah Blah blah. It's just like this yeah weird juxtaposition of openness and shyness.
  • [33:49] Mike: Yeah I mean that's just like the yeah women are subjected to these like pretty extreme selective pressures around like specific attractiveness features because like ultimately that is for better. For better or worse that is what men fixate on right is like physical attractiveness. So.
  • [34:10] Keith: Yeah I mean yeah, but like generally I don't think maybe on some like extreme edges like some men would care but I don't think men are ever going to reject a woman to an approximation for the way their labia look.
  • [34:27] Mike: Yeah I mean it's just like where does that end I mean it's like you but a man would it reject a woman if like her I mean like see that this is the thing is like a man could say look a man would never reject a woman period. But that's not true right? because like.
  • [34:38] Keith: Right? right? right.
  • [34:40] Mike: For instance, like you can go to the extreme of like an obese woman who's like clearly unhealthy or something and like men will reject that woman and so it's like where do you draw the line and then there's this other thing which is like there is like this competition that goes on where like women are looking at each other and sizing themselves up in relation to others and like women do get more and less I mean like I was reading on the.
  • [34:46] Keith: Sure.
  • [34:53] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [35:00] Mike: I should never read this red sub read it but the 2 x chromosomes subreddit yesterday at the gym and um yeah I mean like it was just it's it's fine. It's just like there's a lot of tropes in there that are like that that don't have a lot of wisdom in them where it's like it's it's very similar to some kind of like a red pill subreddit where it's like.
  • [35:02] Keith: Ah, yeah I can imagine that 1 triggering you.
  • [35:19] Mike: Female equivalent of that and this was basically like a number of women that I would say were female versions of incels who was just like yeah I mean they're probably not very attractive which sucks which really sucks because their personality kind of doesn't matter right? and I know that it's lame just like the incel kind of guy like you know well to kind of. Classic insel who then like women are less attracted to and so forth. Yeah, yeah, but also like it can be physical I mean like the the standard 1 for guys if you're like under 5 foot 6 maybe and like ah they're only the only person who that's ever worked for in like history is Paul Simon who.
  • [35:39] Keith: Lives in his mom's basement blah Blah blah.
  • [35:57] Mike: Like 5 foot tall and married princess lea briefly. But anyway like that can work if you're like a songwreing wizard. But but in most cases, it doesn't work out. Yeah, so there's a yeah, so there's like similarly you can have a situation where he's very short. Yeah, very very short. But ah.
  • [36:07] Keith: Is Paul Simon Really that short.
  • [36:14] Keith: 5 foot 3 yeah.
  • [36:14] Mike: Yeah, but I mean like it can work out if you have some amazing trait but it can work out for a woman too. If you're you know if you're less attractive but you have some really compelling quality that could work. But yeah I mean so anyway 2 x chromosomes you run across like the same thing where like women are incredibly down on themselves and and also and then that leads to them just hating everything.
  • [36:33] Keith: Sure sure sure Yeah, all right? Okay, yeah I mean look I I know that I mean I know you can get plastic surgery done to your labia and so like I know people obsess about this. My general point is yeah like I would obsess about that less than like. For example.
  • [36:34] Mike: Hate men hate this hate that because they're yeah.
  • [36:52] Keith: Being in good shape or whatever like it's it's it's something that matters. But it doesn't matter much. Yeah, right, right? Yeah, okay, all right? So there's this ah post about Vr Porn which.
  • [36:53] Mike: Um, yeah I think it almost doesn't matter at all because the standard device is like once somebody's seeing that like it's kind of they've already decided they're they're fine with you. So yeah.
  • [37:10] Mike: Nice.
  • [37:12] Keith: Like a couple interesting aspects to it. It's a little bit lengthy but ah, it's sort of entertaining. So I'm going to I'm going to read it. Okay, so this this man says vr porn virtual reality porn made me realize how much my wife is phoning it in during sex I'm getting a little resentful. My wife and I have been together for 25 years we're both forty five while we still have an active and adventurous sex life. It's usually.
  • [37:22] Mike: No.
  • [37:31] Keith: It's usually me putting all the effort in my wife just kind of lays there and lets me do all the work. Never really got to me. However, someone just gifted us a vr gaming system. We put it on and it's really cool. So of course we both think wow I wonder what the porn looks like we were blown away by the porn. It's literally like the other person was right? there. It looks so real. We both left it just as a goof. So my wife put on the vr set on as we messed around. She loved it after she finished. She just says that was nice so she goes to sleep. No biggie I'm glad that she has a great time. So I go to take care of my own business myself I slip on the vr set type in my favorite porn star honey gold and sure enough her videos pop up. Do you know who? Honey gold is mike.
  • [38:07] Mike: I I don't and I mean the natural thing is to search So let's say go ahead.
  • [38:09] Keith: Right? Yeah, okay, all right, you do that while I continue reading here all right? Oh my god it looked so real it looks so real that I don't even bother chiing to touch myself I'm just an awe of how real it looks like not even looking at the girl in the video I'm just looking around the room checking out the furniture admiring the high ceilings this is amazing. It looks real blown away. Anyways, while I'm just looking around the room honey gold is just going at it for twenty minutes honeyold is on top just riding away being on top grinding pumping up and down for twenty minutes straight now again at this point I'm still not even touching myself or turned on I'm just looking around at this imaginary room after realizing that honey gold has been on top of me for twenty minutes I start getting a little pissed at my wife. Wife always makes me do all the work in bed. She just lays there. She's active and into it but she's on the bottom all the time it just takes whatever I give well it would be nice to not do all the majority of the work once every once in a while. So the next morning I bring this up to her and I'm like hey why do you never get on top anymore she says because she doesn't like it. It's too tiring. Well too bad sweetheart. Because it's tiring when I'm on top as well. Well, she just flat out says that she's never going to be on topic again. Well this is ridiculous. She's so she's just eliminating fifty percent or so of all sex positions available and there's like 20 question marks now I'm pissed.
  • [39:08] Mike: And.
  • [39:21] Keith: So last night we were intimate again. She just lays there I'm frustrated now. All I see is the effort that she is now putting in and honeygold is now I know I didn't marry a porn star I'm not expecting her to ride me for twenty minutes straight but at least put some physical effort in maybe get on top for two minutes or something makes me feel like she doesn't care thought suggestions. So. Have a honey gold report mike.
  • [39:39] Mike: I Mean you can you can look at a picture of her. Um, yeah I mean that it is a porn star that exists. Yeah and she's dark haired attractive.
  • [39:48] Keith: I looked on Google and I have a new computer So safe search is on by default I'm I'm going to I'm going to bing bing is always better for this kind of stuff. Oh there she is yeah yeah, bing has a dd for it.
  • [39:57] Mike: Yeah, you got to bing that.
  • [40:03] Mike: Um, yeah, a dd for people who don't know is a direct display where the search engine shows it to you immediately instead of you having to click through 1 of the links. Yeah, it's nice.
  • [40:05] Keith: Amazing.
  • [40:14] Keith: Um, yeah, that's pretty the amazing. Um, so ok, all right, That's honey Gold. It's It's not important to to the rest of the content here. So um, we mentioned this before I'm I'm curious to try the Rpo and ice I So I and tried it but we don't We don't have to talk about that again. I am sort of interested in this if you have a partner that makes it clear like okay I don't think this woman's wife enjoys having sex with I don't think this man's wife enjoys having sex with him I think that's basically the short story here. And I don't know what he should do about that. But it's it's not just that like oh she's like refusing to do the physical exercise. She's just not that interested like all the sex they are having is basically perfunctory on her part I Think do you think that's the right read.
  • [41:07] Mike: I Think it could be I mean it's there. It could be that the thing she's saying is true I mean like keep in mind like yeah I mean like the the the assumption that I start with is that the woman generally does not care close to as much as the guy does and so it's like.
  • [41:23] Keith: Right in all situations. Always.
  • [41:27] Mike: Ah, so yeah, and will that not in all situations. Always no, that's not right I mean like there's there can be situations where like the woman feels like there's some sort of okay but like a woman might feel like she's she's accomplishing some sort of relationship objective by like getting you know.
  • [41:33] Keith: I'm straw manning your position. But yeah.
  • [41:42] Mike: There There could be some situations where she cares a lot but like in most cases I think she's just like yeah like this is like she views it as like the guy's show typically like it's like the guy wants this and it's Fine. It's Good. It's not that she doesn't want it. It's that it's like not primary her primary interest and so yeah I mean I don't know like it. Ah I mean yeah, it's possible I think it's I Just it sounds to me like kind of normal like she's probably just out of shape. It's it's like difficult to do these things and she's just like you know, do you really need to have like your your experience amped up by like a plus 1 plus 2 here. It's hard to say though Like. It's too bad that he's so frustrated by the the things a porn star is willing to do I Also don't really know like I don't know like it's a little hard for me to relate to like oh I won't do that position. It's like why like it's a little weird. So. So yeah, it's a little.. It's hard for me to. A little hard for me to get into her head of like why that matters so much to her to like say no to that I don't know.
  • [42:43] Keith: Um, yeah I mean I don't know man I mean I think it's possible that she's out of shape and being on top is physically difficult for her but like then it's probably likely that the guy's not in great shape either since people are normally sort of lined up on that access not always, but.
  • [43:00] Mike: Right? I mean the thing he needs to do is the and I have a friend who has a partner who I think I think this is possible and I've been encouraging him to do this. He's done some of this and what this is is he told me that he's um.
  • [43:03] Keith: Often. Ah.
  • [43:18] Mike: He's tried out the situation where he's basically completely engrossed in a porn on his computer while the girl is blowing him for example and so I think you can take that to the next level of Vr um I mostly suggest this not because I think it's a good relationship idea or even would be that compelling. Ah.
  • [43:24] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [43:36] Mike: In terms of physical stimulation. It's just because I think it's funny. The notion that like you're basically yeah, you're just like not even there you're not even present with the woman. This particular guy's girl is submissive and so she might like that like oh he's you know he's I'm just nothing to Him. He's he's doing this other thing but like ah. Just think that's kind of an amusing thing and so this guy could try for that too like be like okay well then we'll do it your way but I'm going to watch this other chick on Vr while we're doing it see how that goes.
  • [44:03] Keith: That won't I predict that would go horribly for him because I think what's going on here is she's like already resentful of him and if he is like okay well I see you moved your pawn here. Well let yeah let me move my queen here like I Just think that'll go badly for him.
  • [44:18] Mike: Sure That's probably right? but I still like the idea.
  • [44:22] Keith: Is this isn't really I mean this is mildly Apropos of this topic but is there any sex position that you can't orgasm from.
  • [44:31] Mike: Oh interesting. Um I mean like the I mean there's so many like female on top positions. You could talk about let's just talk about like the classic 1 where she's facing you and sort of on her on her I guess on her shins on her shins.
  • [44:46] Keith: Yeah.
  • [44:49] Mike: So She's not standing because that's the more difficult and challenging position but just on her Shin's kind of going up and down like that can that position can be a little more difficult, especially if I've been death gripping recently to sort of finish In. Um I don't know like yeah so like I find generally like look generally like. That's sort of part of the reason why I'm like a little confused by this and also like there's a trend in porn way to have a lot of like reverse cowgirl positions and I find that confusing because men I I guess it shows off the female body.
  • [45:13] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [45:21] Mike: Better but like in terms of a fantasizing about a position like men I think typically prefer ones where they're in control because it can be sort of difficult. Otherwise do you find the same thing. Yeah.
  • [45:27] Keith: Yeah, yeah, reverse Cowgirl is not a good real life position but it's it. It does make I guess a compelling visual for porn. But the problem for me is like yeah like I also know how it feels.
  • [45:44] Mike: For whom for the oh oh you because you've done it in real life. You mean great.
  • [45:45] Keith: So yeah, and so like I'm just less. Yeah like I know yeah like ah masturbating is a complicated thing right? you like having some visual stimulus but you also sort of put yourself into the situation that is occurring. And I know what that position feels like and so yeah I don't know that that's sort of a mixed bag when that when that 4 minute part of every porn comes up sometimes it's more than four minutes but
  • [46:13] Mike: It Yeah right? it tend and it tends to be toward the end which is often the more exciting parts and it's sort of frustrating to me because it's not that compelling and I'm trying I was trying to think if there's a position where it's absolutely a no-go for me I'm I'm not sure. Do you do have that where it's like actually like you're like yeah for you, you know.
  • [46:27] Keith: I don't yeah well first off, yeah if there are any porn directors out there. They can take a note from us there about scene ordering. But yeah I don't think there's anything that I like absolutely can't like and then yeah like i.
  • [46:35] Mike: Right.
  • [46:46] Keith: No, there isn't I don't think there is I prefer some more than others and if I've done like let's say I've had an orgasm you know in the same position four times in a row I'll probably like that and I wanted it all four times like probably like the next time I'll I'll prefer some other position just for.
  • [47:03] Mike: When you say you wanted it. You mean wanted that position or wanted to not.
  • [47:06] Keith: Yeah, like okay like if at any given time you were like okay, you're going to have an orgasm in this position I might like say okay position b position b position b but like after the third time I might actually switch to something else because the recent.
  • [47:21] Mike: Right.
  • [47:23] Keith: There's some sort of recency detriment. But I don't think I can't think of any any position where I'm just like yeah, it's just not going to happen. But yeah, some are better than others cowgirl. It could be a little bit. Ah, yeah, for some reason it's like a little bit harder to get like ah pressure on the underside of your penis quite as much and so yeah, it depends like how what they are and stuff. But.
  • [47:52] Mike: It Yeah I mean it's just well I know also like you don't Yeah, it could just not work.
  • [47:59] Keith: Um, yeah, okay, ah, did you want to say anything else about this Vr thing I think we're done there right? Okay, all right? So this person says is it a turnoff that the girl wants you to finish on her face I'm super into this but also.
  • [48:05] Mike: And now we're done.
  • [48:14] Keith: Always worried that the men who I'm interested in will be like this is disrespectful demoralizing to you and either will be grossed out or then think you're just someone who isn't looking for the real thing. Okay, this person's like 20 like lots of girls who like are in their like early twenty s will talk about looking for the real thing and it. But.
  • [48:31] Mike: What does that mean.
  • [48:34] Keith: It's like a distinguisher between a fuck boy and a potential boyfriend or husband.
  • [48:40] Mike: But this is but this is her talking about with the woman once.
  • [48:44] Keith: Um, well she's worried that if she tells a man ah that she no, yeah yeah, she's yeah, she's worried that if she asks the man to come on her face then he'll he'll think.
  • [48:52] Mike: She's signaling that she wants a fuck boy.
  • [49:01] Keith: Ah, he'll he'll sort her into a different bucket.
  • [49:02] Mike: Yeah, that's totally wrong, but go on what read the rest of her is that it. Okay, oh you don't.
  • [49:07] Keith: That's it. That's it I Don't think that's totally wrong like I think if I were I think if I were you know like and ah, let's say I'm like hooking up with someone and she said you know she demanded that I like come on her face. I think I might sort her slightly differently than someone who didn't do that.
  • [49:28] Mike: Why wait? Why? why? What will we forward change.
  • [49:30] Keith: I Don't know like this isn't fair or whatever and like look it's complicated Mike like in some ways that could be kind of intriguing although I'm not like she says a number of things here that I think are sort of insightful like it is kind of weird. It is a little bit I do find it a little bit hard to like have maximal nonsexual respect for people who demand that I do like super dominant things to them in sexual situations and I know those are like 2 completely different arenas. But it's like a little bit weird when someone's like. Yeah I Want you to like you know, sodomize me and then come on my face and then you know wants you to also have a you know sophisticated debate about the situation in palestine or something like it's It's a little bit hard to like Square those 2 things for me.
  • [50:24] Mike: Isn't that I mean I actually remember long ago having a woman get very angry with me about this kind of a conversation because I think I said something like I mean it wasn't this particular activity but it was just like yeah like I mean it's there is a I mean isn't that the situation men are always in in the sense that like. You Ah you like the thing that a man does to a woman could make it difficult for you to like to take them seriously right? I mean like this is something that men have to like reckon with and like find a way to sort of. Compartmentalize that So in regardless of what you're of of exactly what you're doing and I could see a woman saying the same thing to a man like it's like look the the things you do sexually like make it hard for me to take you seriously because you like it's kind of embarrassing the things you do right.
  • [50:57] Keith: Hold on. Yeah.
  • [51:07] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean but I mean you said it like I know I you're right like this is a thing that like all men have to to reckon with and it's not talked about that much. Um, and so yeah, like her her question here is not.
  • [51:10] Mike: Um, but no matter what they are.
  • [51:26] Keith: Like I haven't read the comments but I'm sure all the comments are like no like sex and nonsex are totally different things they have like no relation to each other like okay yes in concept like that's how you would like things to be like most women are quite submissive and in in the bedroom and you know increasingly. And the United states of America were ah you know that empowering women and those 2 things seem like a contradiction. But yeah, they're not and you do have to sort those things into different buckets but it does require some. Consideration and some effort I think.
  • [52:04] Mike: Sure I mean from my perspective like this specific ask I would not be repelled by it I would okay no sorry I would be repelled by it but for a different reason from you. It wouldn't be like something where it's or in a different reason I just disagree with like the I put this in the category of like things where I don't think the woman.
  • [52:16] Keith: Okay, okay.
  • [52:24] Mike: Although you maybe maybe it's just me and she doesn't understand how I would react. It's not that I would be like oh this is a woman with whom I can be a fuck boy the thing that would repel me about it is that like I don't want to interact with somebody who has seamen all over their face and so I'd be like fuck now I'm gonna have to interact with someone a seamen all over their face when I'm totally unarroused since I don't love that. Um.
  • [52:42] Keith: You're able to future project that.
  • [52:43] Mike: The oh definitely I'd be like ah this is Goingnna this is gonna get gros I mean but but on the flip side I think I would generally so so then I'd have to ask myself. Well do I think that she wants this every time and I think my guess would be no no this is just like you know she's amping it up here.
  • [52:47] Keith: Okay.
  • [53:02] Mike: And then in that context I think I would be happy about it because I'd be like oh cool like this means somebody who like amps it up generally and so it would be like yeah this is going to be fun in other words and like it wouldn't It would also like matter it would matter like for this thing about like fuck boy or whatever it would matter way more like how she behaved not. Having sex right? So There are things she could do and say that would make me think oh this person is pretty ah like not not not very compelling just generally personality wise but like this particular thing like assuming everything else was kind of cool like this particular thing I think I could view as a positive with the exception you know? so I might be like hey instead of putting on your face. How About. Do this other kinky thing that doesn't involve me having to interact with a face covered in semen after Sex. So that yeah.
  • [53:43] Keith: Okay, yeah I mean ah yeah I mean a couple points here. Have you ever seen. There's a porn production company called exploited college girls and the.
  • [53:54] Mike: Um, I mean I know but I already like it.
  • [54:00] Keith: Yeah, they I mean the trope. It's all fake of course. But ah yeah, there's like ah you know a junior in college and she comes to like some place and then they talk to her for like 10 or fifteen minutes and then they have sex with her and then.
  • [54:11] Mike: Right? Oh is this? Okay, this is not I didn't know it's called that I I know you're you're talking about I think okay go on. Yeah okay.
  • [54:17] Keith: Well, okay, there's like four companies that have this. There's another 1 called ah net video girls that does the same thing with this like sort of rape guy slowly coring them anyway. Um, exploited college girls.
  • [54:27] Mike: Um, yes.
  • [54:33] Keith: Often has a scene at the end where they're sort of like cleaning up after the sex so they like take a shower and then they like are still kind of interviewing her and it's just kind of gross right? like normally like yeah like you know there's like semen ah on ah her dripping out of her and like.
  • [54:44] Mike: Yes, yes.
  • [54:50] Keith: You know or skin is all flush and stuff and it's just sort of like a weird. Yeah, it's I don't know who that's compelling to but um, yeah, this notion of of having to deal with a partner who has come on their face after having done that is something that.
  • [55:08] Mike: Yeah I mean like the yeah the thing about the thing to understand for woman for I Guess our female listener is ah men do not psychologically want to deal with what happens after they not period.
  • [55:10] Keith: Speaks to me as as uncompelling.
  • [55:25] Keith: Yeah.
  • [55:27] Mike: So That means they don't want to deal with your pregnancy. They don't want to raise the kid and they don't want to deal with your face covered in semen like none of those things they want they want essentially to nut and then like to go into some sort of dreamless sleep for a period of time and have what what happens after that is sort of complicated and so yeah, it's like it's true. And like as an adult you know who's mature I know that there's a bunch of things a woman has to do after the guy nuts if the nut gets near or in and or on her like but we don't want to deal with that like emotionally like it's like ah that's yeah, like this is the point as our body is expelling this thing and that's from our body's perspective. The end of the road.
  • [56:03] Keith: Right now.
  • [56:05] Mike: Right? And so yeah, anything that I So yeah I agree I don't and I know what you're talking about those videos where they show the woman in the shower and it's like what I mean I guess while I'm it could be compelling in the sense that it's It's only compelling in the sense that it's like oh look what he did to her but but it's but in that's but it's not compelling at all after like if you were.
  • [56:18] Keith: Right? right? right.
  • [56:25] Mike: Masturbating along with the porn and then you finished and then you watched that scene youd like oh why did you show me that like the only scene you want to see is like this fade to black exactly and so it's but that being said like maybe they've found that people skip ahead to that part because they're like oh I want to see her having to to deal with.
  • [56:29] Keith: Oh I see there's like a paradox here. It's it's only compelling if you have not yet noted? yeah yeah I guess I guess that's true. Right? I understand what you're saying yeah more directorial advice here. Yeah, the first comment here I I just looked to it. Yeah, of course is I haven't met anyone yet. That's not fine with it or thought of me less and like yeah, that's well either their delusional.
  • [56:44] Mike: Yeah, right.
  • [56:59] Keith: Ah, yeah I Just don't think that's true like I think I think.
  • [57:05] Mike: It's a little weird like I'm I'm surprised with the notion that a woman would genuinely ask for that a little bit like I I would think it would be performative.
  • [57:11] Keith: I Think it's a level of submission. Yeah, but even I might it's so complicated right? because some of this performative stuff can actually make them feel more submissive which can actually potentially arouse them further so it can be both I guess.
  • [57:25] Mike: Sure Yeah I don't understand the the levels of submissiveness that could happen. That's True. So like they're like right? So They're not.. It's not that they want. It's not that if I said hey I'm going to put load my semen into a squirt gun I I. Suggested this to a woman that I was not attracted to that was attracted to me once long ago I was coming up with different ways. She could ingest my semen she found them all Uncompellling. She wanted it from the source and so yeah I mean that's the thing right? It's it's ah yes, putting in a squirt on what she in? Well not just that I was offering my semen I Just didn't want to.
  • [57:44] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Um, right, It's yours it's it's that it's yours that she wants.
  • [57:59] Keith: It's just not fresh.
  • [57:59] Mike: I didn't want do right I didn't want to be with her when I had an orgasm because I didn't I found that repellent but I was like there are other and of course she didn't like that and is because she part of her fantasy and is is is to be there when it's happening and so similarly like yeah, they're looking ahead and saying oh it'll be so hot to have him do this to me.
  • [58:03] Keith: Ah.
  • [58:16] Keith: Right? Yeah, all right? We've been recording for an hour I think that's good. You have any any closing thoughts. Mike.
  • [58:18] Mike: Short. Yeah.
  • [58:25] Mike: I Don't think so now. Thanks everybody for listening.
  • [58:29] Keith: Yeah, right? So I'll echo that Thank you for listening to this forty Fourth episode of your mileage may vary.
  • [58:37] Mike: Okeef I don't think you went through like the the the standard podcast intro about rating liking telling a friend and so forth.
  • [58:42] Keith: Okay, okay, all right I'll do I'll do that now for the ten percent of people that make it this far. So ah as a reminder we pay fifteen dollars for feedback that is sent to y m m v pod at gmail dot com. We'd also appreciate a rating and or a review on whatever podcasting app you use I think that's yeah, that's that's the gist of it. That's all for now and we hope to catch you next time.