YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary Podcast

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Episode 50: Alyssa Visits, Painal, Anal Masturbation, More Ethical Non-Monogamy, Oral Sex Fears, Ex-Girlfriend Nudes

Team YMMV | 1-20-2022 | 1:04:31

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Alyssa joined the podcast today to tell us how much she truly, deeply, really enjoys sucking on Keith's enormous penis. It's just bliss. From the first moment the tip of her tongue gently caresses his meatus to the moment he clutches her hair and she feels the rhythmic throbbing as he delivers his semen onto her tongue. And don't forget the delicious sensation as it slides down her throat to nourish her soul.... The sex is just magnificent. She also likes his personality.

Alyssa gives a pretty in-depth description of her occasional anal self-pleasuring. It makes more sense that men would engage in this, but she makes a strong case that she enjoys it as well.

We discuss whether it's easier for men or women to find additional partners in an ethically non-monogamous situation. Is it really just a trick to make a guy feel like he's free but actually to bind him in monogamy?

Some additional questions: Do women really enjoy giving head (again)? And, what should we think of a man who is caught by his girlfriend while he's masturbating to pictures and videos of an ex (pretty hot IMHO)?

To follow along with the video discussed at the beginning of the episode (start 1 minute into the video):

https://ymmv.me/50/painal

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/50/blowjob-fear

https://ymmv.me/50/nudes

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

[00:00] Keith: Hello and thanks for joining us on your mileage may vary we use and we use our inquisitive minds to talk about sex and relationships salted with plenty of penis jokes today. We have a very special female guest and a plethora of topics together to cover including what I anticipate to be. Lengthy and potentially contentious conversations about anal sex and ethical non-monogamy I am Keith my co-host is Mike hi Mike um I'll introduce our guest.
[00:24] Mike: Hey Keith.
[00:31] Keith: Imminently here. But first a reminder that we pay $10 for any feedback we receive at ymmvpod at http://gmail.com or on Twitter at Ymmvpod you may also send us questions to either place if you're so inclined while I'm begging. It's helpful to our egos if you rate and review us on whatever podcasting platform you use all right. That's it for the psas and now it is with some trepidation and hesitation that I invited our guests today welcome to the show Alissa hi. Thank you guys for having me I'm excited to be here and could you tell us a little bit about yourself and your experience with sex and relationships. Well I've had sex. Wow yeah, um I work in the medical field. But um, I'm not I'm definitely not like an expert on sex and relationships I think all of my expertise is just tied solely to my own personal experiences. Um, yeah, do you have any connection to. Either of the folks on the podcast. Yeah, let you put it my butt right? Yeah, we did have antal sex a couple weeks ago I'm sure congratulations if now the mayor of my browntown that's ah I'm I'm ah jeity you have any response to that Mike.
[01:48] Mike: It's kind of gross I mean the way she phrased it.
[01:50] Keith: Ah, but yeah, um, yeah, um, okay, well, um, we normally start our show by watching a porn and commentating on it. How many of our shows have you heard Alissa the majority of them.
[02:09] Mike: Wow.
[02:10] Keith: The majority. Yeah, okay so I'm still getting down to like the first first couple 1 meeting getting okay done. Yeah, this is episode this is episode 50 So yeah, congratulations you guys? Thank you. It's a dubious on um, are there any other.
[02:15] Mike: 50 Thanks.
[02:28] Keith: Any other housekeeping before we we get into the porn here. Mike.
[02:29] Mike: Well, um, we actually have have kept this porn because Alyssa I guess was interested in watching it with us. So maybe she could say something about that first. So oh wait did we say what the porn what kind of porn. It is.
[02:43] Keith: No go ahead.
[02:46] Mike: Okay, so sos sorry so this is ah we we've mentioned this on the last like 2 or 3 episodes. This is what's called Painal P A I N A L so it's like people who enjoy watching painful anal sex now I know that when you two had anal sex. It wasn't painful because of Keith's modest size. But.
[03:03] Keith: That that is not okay, first off I don't know why this is giggling second that is just nobody's that that is here's hearsay but continue please.
[03:06] Mike: Sometimes it can be.
[03:12] Mike: Um, okay, so but some but look I mean let's be let's be fair though even no matter the size or shape if you don't take proper if you if you. Okay, if you don't take proper precautions.
[03:21] Keith: Large and normal.
[03:30] Mike: Ah, you know you can have a painful experience but you know like ah that can be fetishized right? So so this is an example of a porn. It's probably I mean I'm sure that the actual acting is completely fake I'm not sure probably is but what's what's also interesting is that you know Alyssa has some interest in. This topic as well. So maybe after we watch it. We can talk about that and why she would find it compelling.
[03:49] Keith: Yeah, I'm going to give her a chance to defend herself here. It's It's an alleged interest This is how rumors this is how rumors get started I think I wasn't interested in talking more about like the anal and stuff and then I think we had mentioned the ah the pan video going about and I think it kind of.
[03:55] Mike: Okay.
[04:08] Keith: Snowballed into me being very into painal apparently but okay, well we can let our listeners. We could let our listeners decide I Just like people just like wrapping sandpaper on their penises. Okay, ah.
[04:13] Mike: That's right I'm just going to assume I'm going to assume that's the case for now because it makes it more fun. Okay, no, that's I think that's beyond that's beyond. Ah, what's what's going on here. Okay, so we have ah we'll put the link as we always do in the show notes. So people can follow along. And we're going to start a 1 minute into it and also Keith I think is going to watch it on his phone so we can hear the audio at the same time should be enjoyable for those listeners who are not properly disposed to watch the video I'm ready. Um.
[04:35] Keith: Yes, special treat. Ah okay I'm ready you ready mike okay I'm going to start this in 3 to 1 starting. Ah.
[04:49] Mike: So it's basically like the typical dogie style position but the woman is essentially what you can hear her those aren't yeah I mean she's at least evincing that she that she's in some sort of pain now. The guy is like really. Going as deep as he can. He's sort of drilling for oil there sort of imagine Keith doing this? Um, okay and now he's return I can also see him in the mirror. A little bit. He's a balding man.
[05:09] Keith: Um, is hurt our right. Um, yeah I was wondering if that was him or or somebody else. But yeah, it is him. It's a weird angle. Oh.
[05:20] Mike: I Think she just yelled. That's so deep which I wonder could she even tell that a nice hitting or some anyway that we you can pause it here. Yeah so I mean.
[05:28] Keith: Yeah, okay I think we we get. The idea is her face blurred I think it's a really terrible blurring effect there I can't tell if they have some really fancy lens and that's the like boca effect or if her face is blurred and if it is blurred. It's still. It's terribly done. It's so obvious who she is. Um, but ah I have some thoughts here but Alyssa. Do you want to? what? what were your? What were your thoughts on this video I mean I think the whole like thing about pain is that it's supposed to be painful. Anal bit kind of seems I don't know just more performative I hope at least right I don't think anal should be painful to. That degree well but it is it seems like a kink. It is a kink though right? Yeah I mean I think there's like and people like being pain who like the pain like I feel like the pain aspect for some folks with actually look okay I've said this before both you guys have heard it but I'm sure all of our listeners have it I don't understand.
[06:07] Mike: Why not.
[06:26] Keith: Why people would want to subject themselves to sex. It doesn't seem Comfortable. You know with men of course you hear about you know the prostate and you know if you get your prostate touched in some way by the the way that the penis inserts and anal sex. There can be something there but for women um, um. Pretty confused generally so that's point one and then like point two i'llll I'll be quick. Ah is I don't I mean it doesn't like what is like what? Yeah, why. Like why it just seems like vaginal would be the preferred mode in all cases.
[07:05] Mike: How I know why I know why Keith I mean she should answer. But obviously why is because it's like dominant submission kind of thing but let's hear it. What's what I'm particularly curious about the first question it was basically like what's what's.
[07:17] Keith: I don't remember what the first question is what were the 2 questions.
[07:23] Mike: It was basically what's the physical benefit I mean is there anything sort of compelling physically.
[07:25] Keith: Sorry, accidentally play that'll stop it now. Ah okay, wait first question was what any physical benefit I think I think ale can feel good. It does can you can you elaborate.
[07:31] Mike: Is there any sort of physical benefit like if you know what? yeah say more.
[07:43] Keith: It definitely can feel good I mean obviously there there's like a different like hierarchy right? like there's a certain things that like you like better that you know give you pleasure. But I think you can get like you can't get like physical pleasure from anal sex I don't think it's supposed to be painful. There are ports of it where it can be uncomfortable which is why there's a lot of you know communication. There's Toys. There's lubrication lots of loop. But plugs yes but plugs toys. Yeah yeah, sorry so can feel it so it can't feel good.
[08:04] Mike: So okay, so let's look let's frame it this way. Let's say there was no dominant submission emotional aspect to this so it was just like you felt like there was an absolute free choice of which orifice was going to be used what kinds of things would.
[08:13] Keith: Um. So.
[08:22] Mike: Lead you to choose outside of the emotional dimension. The anal orifice for a romp.
[08:30] Keith: Novelty something new. It's like it's kind of like if you do the same position all the time. Oh sorry, not physical I mean it can be right? It's like if some yeah I guess.
[08:31] Mike: Okay, all right? So there's so that's that's not physical though right man that's emotional right.
[08:44] Keith: Could be I mean like there's I think whenever you try something like a little bit different like it's just kind of outside of your norm of ah one of your repertoirees when you're having sex with somebody. It's just it's like it's exciting. It's New.. It's fun. Feels good. The same thing like giving load jobs is like there's no like real physical aspect that gives. Moving pleasure like I don't have like a juice on the back of away throat or anything but it does It's like something that I like to do that that makes sense to me I mean I don't understand why women like blowjobs either. So like my confusion about now is I feel like is at least consistent. Ah.
[09:06] Mike: Because you go ahead.
[09:18] Keith: But yeah, like but I guess you're right I guess it could. It could be like the emotional component just something new so it feels exciting.
[09:24] Mike: Okay, let me try to let me try to yeah so I mean there. It's something new I mean you're also probably enjoying the fact that the guy is enjoying it right? Okay, so if okay, you're probably going to say even if I remove that component so use the often My my.
[09:31] Keith: M.
[09:42] Mike: Standard element of a glory hole. So the man is sort of not even present on some level. You'd still say there's a novelty dimension right? You'd say oh well this is something that I haven't tried in a while I haven't tried before or something like that.
[09:52] Keith: Yeah I mean if there's like a curiosity aspect like there was just like a penis coming out of a wall and depending on the mood I made of him just like it's like wonder what happens when I put in this hole.
[09:56] Mike: Um, yeah, so like when when you're so when you're self-pleasuring. Do you ever like put things up your butt.
[10:06] Keith: Not often, but occasionally occasionally occasionally like sometimes if I have like a long like a long afternoon I'm just like not I'm nothing to do I'm just like no, we'll try it I'll see what happens.
[10:08] Mike: But yeah it. But yeah.
[10:18] Mike: How can you say more about that long afternoon. What what? what? What would? What's the first. What's the first thing you do.
[10:22] Keith: Is there is is there a setup component. Yeah yeah, oh absolutely I mean I'm a modern lady like I just like I masturbate you know, have like my orgasm and then I go about my day you know, but if I have like a long afternoon I'm bored I'll just like have like a nice hour long 2 hour long session or something. She has said this before. Can you believe that an hour long 2 hour long I don't do it on purpose. It just happens sometimes.
[10:44] Mike: Can you give us like a give us a breakdown of what's happening during this session.
[10:50] Keith: You know I like I like candles you know I set up all my toys like in like a row on the bed kitty. But.
[10:56] Mike: All right.
[10:59] Keith: But people could see the face. My.
[11:01] Mike: Um, it sounds like the 40 year old virgin. It's a yeah, no, it's obviously like ah a joke right.
[11:05] Keith: Yeah, yeah, no, um I mean I don't go in like I don't intend to be like okay I'm going to set a timer I'm going to do this for like go set 3 hours but you know have like an afternoon like I'll just you know be like okay well I'm just gonna masturbate and then I'll like watch some videos and maybe the video won't be something that I'm like generally into I'll kind of like search videos and then. Try different things like I have like different toys I can play with and entirely different stimulation because usually it's just cliteral stimulation dirt like if I'm like regularly masturbating and then it kind of just turns into then it just after a while I'll just kind of keep doing that and then it just turns into like an hour long session or like 2 hours or something.
[11:34] Mike: Okay, and then I mean.
[11:43] Mike: Okay.
[11:45] Keith: You normally have multiple orgasms during these sessions. No okay does it end as soon as you orgasm Yep huh? Okay, that things that do, but.
[11:55] Mike: That sounds ah that sounds that sounds right? So so but but it's it's not as directed like in in the sense that like in 1 of these sessions. Ah you're sort of generally enjoying yourself, but it's not like you're trying to get a release.
[12:09] Keith: Yeah I mean generally it's just if I have like but if I have like the time I'll just kind of flip through videos and just kind of enjoy my time and then just when it happens it happens have my orgasm and then just move on to the next thing.
[12:20] Mike: Okay, and so as part of this sort of exploration process. You might you know explore your anus.
[12:28] Keith: Yeah, have like different sensations that I haven't like done like on myself for a while.
[12:33] Mike: Got it? Yeah all right? Yeah so I mean it's not like I mean yeah, this is I I continue to believe that like the man, the male experience here is all about sort of peeking up the first of all, you're just trying to get the nut and secondly you're trying to peek up the value of the orgasm intensity. Even though other guys argue that it's not a thing and so forth I think it is whereas for women. It's like more experiential which I think makes it less I mean look men just have to like do it every so often like Keith that's something like 3 or 4 times a day frequently.
[13:01] Keith: I don't know about frequently I would say I have foregasms in a day at least once a month maybe once or twice but not like not 4
[13:11] Mike: Whereas for for you Alyssa. That's almost never right 1 search. Wow got it.
[13:20] Keith: This is obviously excluding having sex with me because she normally has 10 to 12 orgasms. But.
[13:24] Mike: This is the thing is we get people on the show and they'll make all these claims when they get the show. They're like oh yeah, it's just wanted done I'm still waiting I'm still waiting for the woman who's just like who's whose masturbation habits map to like what you see on chatterbaid or Pornhub or something like it just never happens. They're always like well no action i'm.
[13:39] Keith: Right? Where woman's having an orgasm every 4 minutes right
[13:42] Mike: Um, I just finish. Yeah, they're just like oh yeah, it's just like waves and it goes on and on for an hour it's like no, it's not not common. Sure well waves of pleasure for an hour sounds kind of hot. Okay.
[13:47] Keith: When do I have that when but I have the time to do that just I will masturbate like 5 times a day. Yeah I mean I think the claim is that they're orgas at yeah, whatever we with yeah go on.
[14:01] Mike: So your so Alyssa you're you're actually not an aficionato of this painal thing you view it as just a purely fetish ah thing but a porn fetish maybe to set up make guys excited and like in fact, like it's not compelling to you at all is that right.
[14:15] Keith: No, not compelling to me Attle I gotta understand why some people do like I think some women do like be submission domination. They some women do like the pain aspect it kind of heightens like their sexual experience and then I think for men it is the the domination factor right? Um I'm hoping with like the pain a laugh because it just kind of if it's. Again, someone's will just seems a little bit seems pretty rapy to me. But I think if it's more of like a performative thing like you're you know, receiving the anal and it's just so Big. It's Painful. So you're kind of doing these like copulation calls and making it you know very performative I can understand why that could be a turn on for people but not compelling to me.
[14:48] Mike: And what's wrong with something what's wrong with something being rapy.
[14:54] Keith: Boof I don't know not for me does it. Do it for me.
[14:56] Mike: All right I mean that's a fetish like I mean obviously presumably. It's consensual, non-consent. But ah yeah.
[15:00] Keith: Yeah, no, absolutely. That's why this I think for pain I think it is a fetish right? because I mean you know even in the other porns you're watching like no one really wants to have like a burglar come into their house and like have sex with them right? It's just it's like it's a fantasy.
[15:13] Mike: I do I mean if a female I mean like it sounds great I mean I would take I would take like ah I would take like a 6 out of 10 looking woman.
[15:20] Keith: But that Natalie Portman brings into your house demands to have sex.
[15:31] Mike: And be fine. She doesn't have to be Natalie Portman like it's like it's like oh you're you're here again. Great like I mean why is that so so bad you know.
[15:36] Keith: Um, take of the television. Um I have 1 more question about anal play. Generally do you think that people have materially different perceptions of pain. So. You'll you'll hear some women say oh, it's just too painful for me I couldn't ever and then other women say it's not very painful at all or you know if you if you prepare yourself. It's not very painful and then you know then the counterargument of the first person would be like no it still is even when I do that. Do you think there's actual. Material differences or some people are just that I'm I'm speculating I'm not I'm not asserting this or some people are just being babies. Alissa oh that's question was for me. Um I don't know I mean from my own experience is I think I have some I have a lot of positive association with anal.
[16:22] Mike: Alyssa.
[16:31] Keith: And so I think that's why it's something like I enjoy I mean obviously there's parts about it that I've had to like like learn for myself like what works for my body like what is pleasurable for me, you know lots of Lu works really well. Um, making can show use a toy beforehand to kind of like loosen myself up a bit you know having a partner that I Trust you know it's all like I'm just going about my day with random partners and just like having them. Like put it in my butt. Sure Yeah I'm just curious because you hear you hear this complaint people always did okay this So It's super common thing you see on the sex subreddit and other sex worms around the internet are is a woman saying.
[16:53] Mike: I see right? and.
[17:10] Keith: I Can't have anal sex. It's it's It's basically impossible for me and then you know and then along with that they're saying but you know my boyfriend actually absolutely demands it and I don't know like I think if your partner doesn't want to have annal sex with you then obviously okay I don't think obviously you should respect that. But I'm curious and this is like an I guess unpolitically correct thing to even be curious about. But I'm curious about whether certain women actually can't or if they're ah they just don't want to? um.
[17:43] Mike: Well, of course they can I mean. Ah.
[17:47] Keith: Yeah, but no, but like okay and analogy here is what is it's it called like Van Vaginineimis vaginimus. It's It's like when you're you have like this like your vagina like Titans in a way that doesn't allow penetration usually due is a fear or some sort of previous trauma I think.
[18:03] Mike: I think I pronounce that like vaginismus or smell like that.
[18:07] Keith: Yes I think that's the word women with that condition I think do have a materially different experience with penises inserting into their vagina than women who don't have that condition and I'm wondering if there's an analog with anal like is it is it the case that certain women have a much much much Worse. Ah. Sensory experience than others I imagine with hemorrhoids which with hemorsteroidids that could be something I can't think of anything else. That's yeah, the physical thing because then it's then it would be painful every time they have to use the restroom. That's that's.
[18:28] Mike: Well you sort of know that's not true that oh that's a good point. That's a good one. Excellent.
[18:41] Mike: Exactly exactly? Yeah yeah I Ah I think we discussed this last episode I mean yeah, like the ah I mean just try a keto diet for a while.
[18:45] Keith: Exactly what Mike was intonating. Yeah.
[18:55] Keith: What does that do oh it fleshes out your system or oh oh so you could have practice with high diameter heart hard things coming out of your anus.
[18:58] Mike: No, it constipates you. Yeah, you're like man exactly exactly I mean I don't know Keith yeah, it's not that hard for a man who is not into pegging as you purport not to be although elissa does seem kind of dominant to me. But anyway.
[19:21] Keith: Ah, this is theup but you just gotta to like Lob Love these grenades. Um, ah not into it yet.
[19:22] Mike: Um.
[19:26] Mike: Um, so that so the the ah the I know so I mean for a man who's allegedly not into pegging I mean it's easy to understand somebody who won't recant or that sort of like I mean yeah for me, it's like I think about it I'm like well yeah I could I don't that I don't.
[19:40] Keith: Yeah I'm sure I could too.
[19:45] Mike: And particularly want to and I think that I think that the delta there is just that like um so ah for women. Um, yeah, there. They're these psychological dimensions particularly because of the gratification. The man gets from it that makes it more compelling. It's a little harder for me to understand. Meaning what's it makes makes a receptive anal more compelling for a woman. It's a little hard for me to understand why a woman would masturbate with like something in her anus. But maybe it's partly because you're like remembering anal sex with someone or something because it's like then it's like really I mean for a guy to do that. It would really have to be just pleasure or you really have some pegging or. Gay sex experiences that you're remembering and fantasizing about I think you know.
[20:23] Keith: I Mean there is like this like there is like this way you can get pleasure because um, where the rectum is like to your vagina like if they're if they're both full in a way you can actually stimulate your G spot from in there and it's kind of like yeah no I mean so basically if you just have say like something stimulating you inside the vagina and then something going inside your anus.
[20:32] Mike: Can you say more about that.
[20:42] Keith: Um, having it being like really full on both ends. It can actually whatever is inside your in is can actually stimulate your gswa inside the vagina and you can have an orgasm.
[20:48] Mike: But couldn't you couldn't you just do you get 1 of those like bad dragon. You said you have like an array of them that you line up with candles and stuff couldn't you get 1 of those like bad drag like couldn't you just get something really large like are you are you saying that you think it's better or somehow different in an important way for a woman. If you have something smaller in each orifice than if you just have something bigger in in the vagina.
[21:10] Keith: I Wouldn't say it's like a significant difference or it's like better than anything right? I Just I think it's just a different sensation. You know it's like yeah, it's just a different sensation. It's just like having an orgasm from being like having sex like having sex with like with someone and then they were stimulating you with like a toy you know it's like. You have an org. It's like you have orgasmism no matter what's like when you have the orgasm. It's just go. It's Going. You're going to feel it in the vagina but it's just what part of the Genitalia like did this like stimulation bring to you bring to like Climax right? but' just a different sensation.
[21:37] Mike: Okay, so if you're if you're one in if you're 1 and done as many many many people are with this and isn't it kind of a bummer then once you've orgasmed that you now have this thing up your butt.
[21:50] Keith: Now here is Lube just pop right out is go of my day.
[21:52] Mike: And just like what whatever and then okay for me I think that would be a big bummer. It's like it's like you as you know from listening to the show assiduously Keith ah Keith avoids. His semen after he orgasms and the reason why I mean I'm not Keith's lover but I imagine that the reason why is because the the letdown the come down after orgasm is just makes it so he doesn't want to deal with his own body fluids and I was sort of wondering if you you don't have the same experience. Yeah women I think often don't write because you because you know if if you did have a. Big come down like that then after your orgasm you might not want to have sex anymore if you were you know in partnered sex right.
[22:29] Keith: Yeah I think evolutionarily that's why women don't have that come down because otherwise there would be this mexican standoff where whoever orgasms first wins right? Like you don't I don't know I don't know what the is there. A new. Ah, phraseology for mexican standoff. Yeah no no mexican standoff is when when 2 people point their guns at each other and you know there's there's a race to see who shoots first and and that's what sex would be like if yeah.
[22:49] Mike: Up a more politically correct 1 cat fight. No I don't know I know what you mean? It's not a cat fight.
[23:01] Mike: Sure like at the the 3 people with guns and right yes.
[23:07] Keith: Right? Okay, are we done with the anal topic. Okay I have a number of things from Reddit but I'm gonna sort of open I'm gonna ask a elissa question here and I'd like her to.
[23:11] Mike: I Think we are young.
[23:27] Keith: Describe her her thoughts on this and the question is how should men find new partners in a E M situation. You talked about this and it's hard for and I think it? Yes, yeah yeah, sorry for for the uninitiated.
[23:37] Mike: Keep ethical. Non-monogamy, our listeners aren't going to know what that is yeah right.
[23:45] Keith: I mean we've talked about this before and I think I am definitely not the expert on how to go about doing that right because I mean my experience is purely is very different as a woman you know I can go on to any like how many dating apps and I can be very open and honest and just say like I'm in in like an e and m relationship. And I can say like and no man will care. Yeah, no man look I could say have teeth my vagina like no one would really care. You know they'd be like I mean how sharp like is it still warm. Yeah, exactly. So I mean there are like other there are like other like websites you can go to I mean there's like this 1 thing is called field. I think it's specifically meant for in like you know for couples and singles like people like looking to be like a third like couples like looking for a third or like couples like seeking you know other partners? Yes, but what about the partnered man looking for a you know short term. Probably 1 time sexual engagement like field could.
[24:38] Mike: This is really creepy. So Keith you're asking her how you can find one of these.
[24:45] Keith: Well I did not know I'm not I'm saying hypothetically hypothetically so we've we've had discussions about ethical non-monogamy and our own relationship Neither of us has slept with anyone else, but we're both open to the concept. But I think that.
[24:49] Mike: This is interesting.
[25:04] Keith: There's this big asymmetry I think that it's super easy for women to find men who would be game to randomly have sex with with a partnered woman I think it's basically impossible. 1 other thing Alissa mentioned in the past is you could use something like yeah I think it's much harder for a man to find to find a willing partner I think.
[25:15] Mike: For a man. Yes I.
[25:23] Keith: There are a few ways that I think there are 2 super easy ways and then all the other ways I think are much harder. The 2 super easy ways are you could use something like seeking arrangement or a website where you are pay you can pay right so you can you can hire a prostitute or do something that's a little bit less. Like explicit prostitution like you seeking arrangement. So that's one way the other way is I already forgot the other way there's another way. No that obviously helps. But oh no sorry no.
[25:48] Mike: Be attractive. Don't be unattractive is that the second one yeah be a celebrity be a sports star be like really really rich. Okay, sorry.
[25:59] Keith: The other way is you can lie you can lie so you can tell when and on tinder or bumble or whatever that you're just meeting them and then try to have one night's stands or or cultivate them over ah over a few dayss and I think yeah so I think lying being being nonethically non-monogamous is one way. Or paying is another way and I think all the other ways are extremely extremely difficult. Um, but I don't think you necessarily disagree with that now. I wonder how long um, like how many days would you have to go on with somebody before you can like relay to them like you're in an ethically like no-monogmous relationship or do you just like not you know like when's like do like when is a good time you know because. Feel like you know the E and m thing does turn people off. Yeah immediately right? Yeah, um, so like I wonder how long it could be for for that person to get to kind of get to know you as a person and then be like okay well this is something I can maybe explore with this person or even explore myself. Yeah.
[26:49] Mike: But I don't think that that's not that's not realistic if a man if a man concealed this. Let me I wanted to say 1 thing really quickly I'm on I'm on tinder I'm on tinder ah because I find it entertaining I don't.
[26:56] Keith: If.
[27:05] Mike: Meet the people. But I'm on there and I had a woman say she was ethically non-monogamous and I was like oh I said what does that mean because I was like I wanted to get a definition actually so we could talk about it on the podcast and then she asked me what motel we should meet at so for her it meant she was a prostitute but anyway the ah the.
[27:20] Keith: Ha.
[27:23] Mike: Which was always it was a code word for her on on on tinder basically saying she was a prostitute the um ah but for for if a man went on a date with would say 3 dates with a woman and did not tell her that he was in a relationship she would be very angry typically ah much of the same way as like.
[27:29] Keith: It's interesting.
[27:42] Mike: I mean there's all kinds of things you could conceal and that you know you're quote unquote supposed to have revealed at the outset. Um, and so I don't think that's like a practical suggestion because you know yes, there might be the one in a hundred who'd say oh that's that's really interesting I'm really into that and then there'd be the ninety nine that would be extremely angry with you and and there'd be like the. 5 out of a hundred that would actually do something bad to you. You know, be like running some physical risk. Yeah.
[28:04] Keith: Um, in a furious rage I don't actually have I don't have good intuition on this I I know that Alyssa and I intuition on this differs like I think it's basically impossible I think Alyssa believes that if you were charming enough and you know. Laid it out it in the proper order that it it may not be as hard as I'm making it out to be is that right? I.
[28:28] Mike: Um, what would the woman's incentive be. She's just like I don't have enough dicks in my life.
[28:32] Keith: And I mean that there could be that could be that could just I don't mean novelty experience something new I don't know. Yeah.
[28:44] Mike: Yeah I mean maybe like you might yeah I mean that's I guess that might be someone like you might meet at a swingers club or something like that kind of somebody who's sort of.
[28:52] Keith: That's another way to meet people and e for e and m as well. You know like sex positive platforms like fet life or something for sure for sure I do think that it exists like okay I do think there are women out there who are also ethically non-monogamous. That could be looking for other. Are monogamous people. But the point is yeah like the Venn diagram of women who are available to ethically non-monogamous men and men who are available to ethically non-monogamous women. It's just like math like ah, there might be literally 100 times more more men than there are. Women like this and so yeah, like that asymmetry makes ethical non-monogamy a little bit challenging because like how do you even execute it ethically like you could definitely do it by lying. You can definitely do it by paying but otherwise are you spending like you know a third of your waking hours like searching for this.
[29:46] Mike: Well 3
[29:47] Keith: They don't call it a unicorn means something very specific in this space. So it's not a unicorn but is searching for you know this needle in a haystack.
[29:54] Mike: Keith I think you're also you are also ignoring the great power of choosing to be attracted to extremely unattractive people. Well so there's that too.
[30:03] Keith: Well right? But I mean that I mean I sort of yeah I sort of paid lip service to that point with yeah, there's like a hundred x more women. Ah more men available to women than there are women available to men and so yeah with that you get it.
[30:15] Mike: Sort of but I mean sort of but that's I think that I think there's like a caveat you have to put in there which is that um the colette when you think of a woman that could be interesting to you. You're setting a physical attractiveness bar that's drastically higher than the bar that like a woman would set. Typically for a man that she could be attracted to and so there is just this huge collection of women that just have absolutely no that you would just you would your eye would just pass over in a bar or a club or a dating site or something like that and if you and those I suspect would yeah.
[30:47] Keith: Um, sure but a woman doesn't have to make that concession.
[30:54] Mike: Doesn't have to but I mean at some point if you're you know £100 over weight like you your choices are be very lonely or make some kind of concession right? Concession could be to just lose weight. But you know.
[31:05] Keith: Right? Yeah, well it seems like to me like if you're on like tinru bubble I mean do you see people like when you're swiping that there's like people say like e and m or like poly like Polly people tend to put it people don't tend to put that on their profiles. No not really it.
[31:21] Mike: I see that they never match with me because I would always I would always like somebody who said that because I'd be curious if I matched them and the only time it's happened was the prostitute.
[31:24] Keith: It it happens but it's unusual. Is it unusual or you just don't like um.
[31:34] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean that might be the kind of person who's matching with you? Yeah, yeah.
[31:42] Mike: The prostitutes it makes sense That's I think I think that is my target Demographic sexually is prostitutes. That's all I have left Oh for sure.
[31:54] Keith: Yeah, well you're certainly their target demo. Ah okay, let's move into let's move on to a couple Reddit topics here. Let's see here. Let's do this one first. It's going to take a second for Reddit to. Unca it and I wanted to bring this up because we have someone here who has given me a blowho and you know so it's almost like a it's almost like it's almost like a famous meme on this show was I a confusioncian about about Blowja. But.
[32:22] Mike: Now.
[32:30] Mike: I'm just so yeah I'm just so glad he I'm just I'm so glad it's not me I was like a pieces.
[32:35] Keith: Ah, so this person says I have a really bad fear of giving head. So I've been in a relationship with a guy for over a year and I have a fear of giving blowjobs. It makes me feel awful I can do most stuff but I have a really bad gag reflex and I gag when I so taste precom and come. And there's I don't know if there's a material difference in that taste anyway and then there's the fact that I get tons of anxiety over it I got so bad that I actually threw up on him once and since then we only do hand jobs. Nothing has really helped me honestly I'm just curious if anyone else has a problem like this or if I'm the only one. Ah.
[33:09] Mike: Hang on hang on Keith Hang on Keith Keith Alissa can you ah for Keith's benefit describe in as much detail as possible say in a minute the difference of taste between precome and come.
[33:11] Keith: I Have this problem I yes.
[33:23] Keith: I mean I don't find a relative difference I Really don't So do you think there's a different spike it sounded like you were certain she was going to have a habit have a thesis on this.
[33:26] Mike: Come on so to speak.
[33:33] Mike: That's. Yeah, I'm certain. There's a difference.
[33:40] Keith: You you think because the sperm is not let yet uploaded into the seminal fluid. There's a material taste difference.
[33:49] Mike: I'm I'm not sure of the biological the biological rationale for the difference I mean obviously there's a quantity difference. But I think that like 1 is sort of thinner and there's something that's like not in one that is in the other I don't know what it is.
[33:52] Keith: Um, yeah.
[34:02] Keith: Have you tried your pre come and your come before but both of them. No no yeah yet I have not. Ah.
[34:05] Mike: Of course. Well first of all, every guy has every guy has tried his pre come yes, every guy every guy has because like all all it requires is like to get it be getting a blowjob and then kiss during the blowjob like that's ridiculous. It's like not.
[34:19] Keith: No I no I mean that's not enough to like Dispositively say anything about the taste.
[34:25] Mike: Ah I mean okay like I mean and you also could talk about like the odor like there's there's definitely a material difference in the odor between the 2
[34:32] Keith: I I have no intuition on this because I have not tasted it. There's a difference in viscosity. Yeah well precom tends to be like a little bit more watery and then you know come depending on like depending on them like.
[34:38] Mike: No I didn't say taste I said there we go. Okay, so can you describe that for listeners.
[34:50] Keith: Gentleman it could be they' like really like fig or could be watery just it really depends on the person's like very different but I know precoms always tends to be like a little bit more watery than the actual Mike have you asked have you asked your wife if I don't know if if this okay well we'll we'll cut it if you don't what to talk about it have you asked your wife if your.
[34:57] Mike: Okay.
[35:09] Keith: Come taste different since you're besecctomy. That's interesting. So it's not it that implies that it's not that there's sperm in it. It's not the sperm that that cause it it to the extent that a difference in taste exist which I am somewhat contesting.
[35:11] Mike: Ah, it doesn't he doesn't yeah.
[35:28] Keith: To the extent that it does exist. It's not the presence or absence of sperm.
[35:31] Mike: Right? There's it's there. No, it's not that it would be something else I mean I mean viscosity is an important delta here. but but I think there's also like like I think that like I mean Alissa have you ever had experience with a man who's a semen.
[35:40] Keith: Sure.
[35:49] Mike: Kind of grossed you out.
[35:52] Keith: No, not like not significantly where I like I barfed on them or anything like that. No like after they aspared us or something I was like I kind like like funky like.
[35:53] Mike: Okay, okay, no, no, not borrowed on them but where you're like oh this is actually like not my cup of my metaphorical to cup of tea like this is a little rough now and the reason I Yeah exactly the reason I bring that up is that like I'm. Confident of this assessment that that information is not available to the woman until the main event until he ejaculates like she's not like oh this precomes weird now like there's some other constituents that like come into play during the come and that's why like I Maybe you have had the great fortune in your life to um, only.
[36:20] Keith: Ah.
[36:30] Mike: Ah, give oral sex to men who have fantastic flavorings. But I think that's not always the case. Okay, anyway, see. Okay, yeah.
[36:37] Keith: Eaten the proper amount of pineapple. Yeah, that's supposed to be the thing. No I mean like I've hadve like I've had people like where I was just kind of like like there's like words it wasn't funky wasn't like it was just like funky than usual, right by I mean.
[36:50] Mike: But you didn't but you didn't notice that in the you didn't notice that previous to the ejaculation. Ah not right.
[36:52] Keith: I Don't know didn know didn't notice the pre come but I would probably I could probably like I could probably call it beforehand you know, like just some guy probably had like a bad diet. You know drink like you know, just drinking smoke cigarettes and stuff like that Health Hell is a big component to it for sure.
[37:04] Mike: Oh sure sure of course but like the I'm sure it is. But yeah, all I was going for is that there is a material difference in flavor between Precu and come and I think we're now getting to that that being the case because like otherwise you would have like taken. Ah I mean when you're giving a blow like.
[37:21] Keith: Um.
[37:24] Mike: Pretty quickly stuff starts coming out like like which is interesting because when a man masturbates or whatever in a hand job like it takes a like. In fact I mean Keith crooking but I'm wrong here but like let's say you masturbate for a 15 minute session like it's likely nothing will come out until you ejaculate right.
[37:40] Keith: Huh Yeah, that's true I don't really have that much precom when I masturbate why is that.
[37:43] Mike: Um, yeah, and yet what the reports that I've heard I don't know the reports I've heard are that in a blow like within the first 2 minutes there's something coming up because and I know this because I've ah been corrected by women but you know because like a thing you can say is like oh well. You know women's bodies are producing lubrication the entire time. So like so like it's not all in 1 main event and then the woman's response can be well actually you're producing stuff all the time and I remember the first time I got corrected on that I think it's been a couple times that I've made this I've said this and then been corrected I was surprised. Because I knew that when I masturbated nothing typically came out unless I was really horny and so and then it's I guess you're really horny when you get a blow. Ah yeah, so a lot comes out right? Anyway, we can go on with the question I was just looking for like say like yeah.
[38:16] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[38:25] Keith: I like I like I was just gonna say I like that this is what we focused on this question is the difference of days between precomb and come. Ah, yeah I mean I thought.
[38:37] Mike: They're just different.
[38:40] Keith: She was saying a redundant thing when she said she gags when she tastes precome and when she tastes come. But thank you for the correction.
[38:44] Mike: I think I think in the ideal case and I think in the ideal case and maybe Alissa would back me up on this that ideally come and pre come taste the same which is that is to say not strong. But I think you don't always. It's not sometimes your pee is very clear and sometimes it's very yellow.
[38:51] Keith: So.
[39:02] Mike: And it's that yellow P that gets you.
[39:02] Keith: Yeah, yeah at asparagusp? Ah, okay, the reason why I thought this was an interesting topic is this is yet another woman that is obviously totally disgusted by blowjobs because they are disgusting and I think that is a very rational point of view and I thought. Could have this conversation for the m time. Ah Alyssa why are blowjobs compelling not but it doesn't have to be specific to me but just generally again novelty also for me is I like if it. Like I like giving blowups to people that like I'm interested in that I respect and I care for right? So like when I'm pleasuring them and like I could see that they're having a good time. It makes me feel really good. It does turn me on too. Yeah, but I like.
[39:44] Mike: Why let me write this down I got to write this down so interested respect and care for that's where I got to get to.
[39:54] Keith: Just like I'm not just going I'll just like giving blows to whoever you know like but this is the thing I would go out and I would go out and have sex with whoever ah you know Obviously if we weren't dating Ah I don't yes I understand that you can suppress the disgustingness of it in order to.
[39:55] Mike: I got it now I got it.
[40:14] Keith: Satisfy a partner but that that's not an argument for it being a compelling act. Really yeah, the turns are on.
[40:17] Mike: How she's turned on though you're going to be you'rere. Yeah, when you're turned on discussed is suppressed. That's why there are so many so many videos on Pornhov of men licking the anuses of women and other men is because they've wealth there. They're getting it's there are 2 things actually that lower your disgusted one is um.
[40:29] Keith: Yeah, off.
[40:37] Mike: Arousal and the second one is money so in that case, they're a it's the money that's doing it. But ah here it's here. It's the arousal and so yeah, it's like I mean yeah, like this is sort of like we've litigated this Keith like she's aroused by it. She likes being able to like make you come and watch it and also and Alyssa correct me if I'm wrong on this but like.
[40:39] Keith: Ah, ripes.
[40:56] Mike: I Think that in a lot of cases women enjoy the physical sensations in their mouth of the man coming like in other words, you can. It's very visceral.
[41:06] Keith: Yeah, knows very, it's very satisfying I mean I think it's satisfying like you know like when you're able to give someone like you know like head till completion aren't you bummed that he hasn't I mean maybe all right I know where this conversation is gonna go. You're not bummed that he's not coming inside of you.
[41:23] Mike: You are. You're trying to make a you're trying to make a baby in her mouth Keith that's you've chosen her mouth to make a baby.
[41:25] Keith: You're I mean tend you are coming inside of me. But.
[41:31] Keith: Ah I would think that there would be a lot of female drive to be came in in their vagina and a lot less for anywhere else that would be my suspicion I don't know I mean I think if that's like the biological drive. Sure right? But if you're having you know sex with 1 person like multiple times it's like. Be plenty more to come. Yeah, it's like there's there's plenty there's plenty more it's just like come wherever yeah I honestly die and like I've heard this is like a been like a thing now in the pocket for a really long time I like I really don't know what I can do to convince you that it's something that women enjoy so some women enjoy some women don't right? Well I think ah.
[42:07] Mike: Alyssa key. Yeah, okay, can you feel go ahead. Yeah.
[42:09] Keith: Let me just make 1 quick one I I think all I think all women are disgusted by it. Some women's arousal exceeds that disgust or suppresses that disgust.
[42:16] Mike: Look Keith I mean on on on the level you're talking on I'm disgusted by vaginas like it's true I find it like if you just if I had to just have like if I was a gynecologist and I just caught every vagina like I had to also like lick it or something I'd just be like this is kind of gross like I would be disgusted by it. The arousal. Is important to mediating this but but Alyssa 2 things 1 is ah ah whether or not I'm assuming that you either can't feel it when your partner comes in you typically vaginally or aally or very little you can feel it but you can. There's a lot more physicality to the sensation of the guy coming in your mouth and I wanted to put it. Fine point on this like do you find something compelling in that specific element of it like like it's like you like okay it comes in your vagina. Mostly it just becomes wetter or something like it's not you but but within your mouth like there's a lot of physicality to that sensation. Don't you find that compelling too.
[43:06] Keith: Absolutely I think there's like I mean there's more sensation there right? What's the opposite of compelling discusses ah like ah so you don't so go ahead.
[43:10] Mike: There we go? Yeah but Keith hang on Keith you don't like you like yeah, all right I mean if it was if if if if a if I was forced to give oral sex to a woman I found totally unattractive.
[43:26] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
[43:28] Mike: I would be grossed out by the sensation of feeling a spasm of her vagina around my tongue or whatever you know, like like that would gross me out too if I wasn't aroused like that's the thing you're just you're you're basically just repeatedly messaging to our audience that you are not attracted to dick's which is fine and actually you do it so much that makes me wonder if it.
[43:46] Keith: Yeah, you'd think there might be a more effective way. But but this is my Trojan Horse Sorrys Ah I What if this has just been like a long con to gaslight me into trying to give you more blow dos all the time just like now.
[43:47] Mike: If it's true but like okay, you're not, You're not aroused by Dicks. Yeah, you're like we're like I know I'll.
[44:04] Keith: I will make you like this.
[44:06] Mike: He's searching. No, it's not that it's a gaslight to get an an m m f threesome. That's the goal here all right? Wo woo wait wait I have a question so Alissa when you when you say that there was such joy in your voice.
[44:09] Keith: No, it is not that just ask oh.
[44:23] Mike: Ah, mmf you you know from listening is and and you probably know from culture mmf is the 2 men interacting like is there something about that that you find compelling you would like to to see Keith interact with another man.
[44:32] Keith: So but but let me just make sure she had think she does but there's mfm where the the 2 Ben yeah, you know she's rolling her eyes and so let me explain to you threesome. Go ahead? Listen yeah I mean I could find it compelling but I'm not going to I don't want to do um mm f or m both.
[44:40] Mike: They're just they're just high-fiving. You know? yeah.
[44:49] Mike: Okay, wait wait wait wait wait. Okay, this is really important hang on. Oh.
[44:50] Keith: Both of both are compelling to me. Okay, well well one of those actually neither of those are going to happen. But what are them wait really? well one of those one of those is definitely not going to happen one of those checks out one of those I don't know I don't know I don't know about I'm not hippie enough.
[45:03] Mike: Okay, hang on a elissa. Are you sure that if you witnessed Keith receive anal sex I know it's not gonna happen. So let's just make it person x doesn't have to be Keith if your partner received gave a blow in front of you or received anal sex.
[45:08] Keith: First.
[45:23] Mike: In front of you. You think that would be cool. You'd be like oh yeah, this is an mmf experience and I like this or would you be like whoa I no longer am interested in respect or care for you. Those are the 3 things that get the blow I took notes.
[45:36] Keith: So I've never been in an um I've never been in an mmf situation. So I can't say but I would think that no I mean if you know if Keith if Keith was really an enjoying it and I couldt see x yeah okay happening oh my other boyfriend care person acts.
[45:40] Mike: Honor.
[45:46] Mike: Um.
[45:55] Keith: Person asks I can see they were like really enjoying themselves like they're having a good time. Everyone's having a good time then yeah like I don't think I would lose like respect or it would like deasculate some person. It wouldn't emasculate that person in your eyes. No because we've we've read we? Yeah, we've had so we've we've read lots of complaints about this like oh.
[46:06] Mike: I Think it would.
[46:14] Keith: You know I had an um mmf thing with my wife or my girlfriend and now you know she she doesn't she doesn't view me as like this powerful male object anymore because you know she's witnessed him being very submissive sexually to another man and I Yeah yeah I can't say for sure because I've never been in that situation.
[46:24] Mike: Taking it. That's right taking it.
[46:31] Keith: But but you feel like you're high mindded enough to up for rate I wouldn't say a high mind I Just don't think it bothers me but I mean I watched like Mmf porn with I was happening like I think if my visceral reaction was like oh you know I think I could kind of get a feeling of what what to expect if I was in this situation. But yeah, it's compelling.
[46:33] Mike: That I will know man.
[46:48] Mike: It's trickier when your boyfriend is lucky Pierre but but ah, Keith ah, Keith, do you think it's it's either and this is I think the analogy. Do you think that it would bother you? Ah subsequently if you were had your partner in an mmf scenario and you. Had the great joy of watching another man have sex with her and ejaculate in her mouth vagina or anus. Do you think you would not enjoy that memory. Yes, there's an analogy there.
[47:08] Keith: No I don't think I would I don't think I would find that compelling at all but that yes so both aspects of an mmf receiving from the man and watching the man give to my partner person. Why ah yet neither of those seem compelling. Okay, well what about FFm? Well FFm might be obvious obviously f fm or fm FMF I'm I'm conceptually fine with.
[47:28] Mike: Now Now that now we're talking right.
[47:36] Mike: Yeah Alyssa if you wanted to give Keith a gift here a real gift I would recommend you find a way to enable an MFF 3 some for him because I think he would enjoy it and I I do think it would make you respect him more care for him more and be more interested in him.
[47:52] Keith: Er and tried. He told me to stop. But.
[47:54] Mike: Because he told you to stop trying to arrange one. Why would you? Why would that happen I had to do something way put away. What.
[47:59] Keith: Yeah, and I think we had do something I don't know if I told you to stop is it put it away. But. I was on I I haven't I like had an app and so I was like telling I was telling him like I'm trying to facilitate a Threeome and he was just like put that away I think we were having a conversation. Okay, no, ah, don't put it away.
[48:11] Mike: The third.
[48:16] Mike: Wow, that's not what I would say I'd be like get the don't don't did you forget to say don't Keith. Um, yeah.
[48:28] Keith: I don't remember the context here but to be clear I am conceptually on board with a ah 3 something that involves 2 women be it f fm or FMF ah I don't remember the I don't remember the context of that I don't remember the.
[48:35] Mike: Oh yeah.
[48:40] Mike: As long as the other woman can can fit in a robot.
[48:46] Keith: I Remember the context. But yeah, we were like talking about something I was making an important political point and I felt I felt unheard and and um, unrespected that's right? Okay, but yes, ah yes, continue foraging for.
[48:54] Mike: Interesting. So keep. Ah.
[49:03] Mike: I would also recommend to you Keith like I mean there's certain things that a man should sort of seed his political points for and this is one of them like if a woman is offering you some sort of novel compelling sexual experience and you have some point you're making I would just be like all right? Well just write it down you bring it back up later? yeah.
[49:04] Keith: For that? f.
[49:19] Keith: That's probably a good life pro tip Yeah yeah, yeah.
[49:22] Mike: I Would say if the woman starts giving you a blowjob also just put it away. But if you don't like receiving blowjobs. Then maybe that's the time to really double down on your political point to stop her from doing that.
[49:30] Keith: What do you think about Elizabeth Warren yeah okay all right, we're gonna go to the next topic here this one's a little bit lengthy but it's pretty juicy. So here. We go. This is a today I fucked up which is a common category in Reddit today fucked up my girlfriend caught me jerking off to my ex's nudes. This happened 3 to 4 hours ago today. So we've been with my current girlfriend for over a year now and we got together six months after me and my ex broke up. My girlfriend was out doing Christmas shopping today and I was having a relaxed day off work. So I decided with the place to myself to jerk off decided to put some porn on but after 40 minutes I was getting frustrated and couldn't come so when this happens. I go to my ex's news and videos. She said to me so I put some headphones and started going to 1 of her videos. My girlfriend came home but I couldn't hear she came home. She came home so she walked over to get me to get my attention or like baby starts something. Clearly seeing what I was doing but she saw my ex face moaning on my phone and ran out shouting. She drove innocent answering her phone and spent 3 hours that she has to come home. What the fuck do I do to make this right? Um, my god i.
[50:36] Mike: Um, this is retarded I mean he should have made some videos of his current girl. Go go ahead. Yeah.
[50:44] Keith: Okay, first off, he shouldn't look lock the door when you're masturbating just generally like whatever that means right, don't get caught masturbating. That's not hard I've never once I've never once been caught masturbating. It's not hard.
[50:55] Mike: Yet, no nobody it right? Nobody ever wants to walk in on a man rubbing his erect penis in any circle in my opinion. Maybe maybe Alissa would be like oh there's something I don't think so I think that you it's just not a good look for men.
[51:12] Keith: Yeah I.
[51:14] Mike: If I see myself in the mirror doing it sometimes I'm like ah what's wrong with you? Ah I mean I have a pretty big anyway going? yeah.
[51:18] Keith: Um, so very glamorous. Yeah so right with with wilt so subtle. Okay, so I don't so don't get walked in masturbating that's that's ridiculous. The the thing where. She seemed like she might have wanted to have sex with him like these are all mitigating things. The main thing is he got caught masturbating to his ex ah is it weird to masturbate to your acts and ah like what level of outrage should she have here. What why don't you comment first to Elizabeth first of all, why does he even still have all of her photos like I think once you break up with somebody. You have all these nudes It's like you shouldn't have access to that anymore, right? Ah oh you still have nudes I ah know I was thinking about something else. Mike.
[51:53] Mike: Out. What? No no, no, No oh no, oh that's all the more Reason. No I mean look I think I think that I think we I think actually a man's Propensity. Let's say that every day a man has a propensity.
[52:08] Keith: Go ahead. Let me just.
[52:17] Mike: To Delete a nude video or photo of of anyone of his current partner ex-partner. The propensity is higher when they are dating than it is once once they're broken up. It's going into some sort of vault or cold storage where it will never be deleted like even if he tells you like I got to tell you like the number of times a man has deleted. Outside of a fear situation are being forced to pictures or videos of his ex is not.. It's not going to be very many like that's it's an unusual circumstance for a man to delete those he wants those things because later it's like especially if she broke up with him my lord he's like well you broke up with me but I did this to you. What's What's what's the fear.
[52:37] Keith: They are legal.
[52:49] Keith: Um, well exactly That's the fear. Yeah, so well's the fear. It's like when you well not just that No but not just that but just like when you break up with somebody and then like they have like this series of videos and photos of you.
[52:56] Mike: Oh that you know oh here that he'll do revenge more.
[53:04] Mike: Um, it's not. It's not to do revenge porn. It's because he because men perceive sex as dominant and so he's like I did this to her and he wants to relive that it's like a ride at Disneyland he's like oh yeah, remember that.
[53:05] Keith: You know it's just kind of out there in the ether and they have it.
[53:24] Mike: she she really it's not men don't view sex in most cases Keith accepted maybe as like a partnership between equals men absolutely view themselves as like the rooster and the woman as the hen and roosters are not very nice to the hens you know did sort of.
[53:38] Keith: Yeah, so do you guys? So do you both have like an archive of like just like nudes like little nude folders of all your ex I'm sure Mike doesn't because nudes weren't a thing. The last time you were single and it's it's yeah, it's sort of the same for me like ah.
[53:41] Mike: Pretty dominant.
[53:49] Mike: Right? right? I don't but I wish I wish I did maybe rad.
[53:58] Keith: Unless I date women in their twenty s which I do occasionally but you know unless I date women in their twenty s like women who are my age don't really send nudes and so it's like a thing that's developed over the last decade really and now like with. You know youth I mean like there's all kinds of issues with like people enter routines hearing nudes and stuff and setting that aside there's ah yeah, like sending nudes and and and sex to each other is just like super commonplace I would I would guess that like more than 50% of relationships do this so I don't have a vast collection I did have. And x ask me to delete nudes. She had sent me and I did she was she like was really paranoid about it and I actually did well Mike there Mike there was a mitigating yes of of course everyone says they deleted them right? like.
[54:39] Mike: What no the right thing to do and you do have a moral obligation to to tell her you deleted them? Yeah, that's your moral obligation. You're not obligated.
[54:51] Keith: Everyone will do that I actually I actually I actually deleted them here's why she had had something in her past where somebody had lorded lorded them over her and I don't know if he posted them somewhere but she she has like some sort of like trauma related to this now. Why she's still sending nudes after that is another issue but. Yeah I wanted to respect that you know she yeah had some reason. Yeah.
[55:12] Mike: Yeah, that's why you tell her that you're going to delete them the way you respect that is you tell her you the way you respect women is you lie to them.
[55:19] Keith: Right? right? Yeah, let that be a lesson to our listeners out there. Yeah I yeah I don't know why I did in that moment. Don't send needs to Keith but but yeah I mean Alyssa I have a folder of pictures you've sent to me I know and if you.
[55:28] Mike: It's actually a quote like she It's actually a quote from the office.
[55:35] Mike: Oh okay.
[55:39] Keith: Told me if we break up which of course will never happen. But if we do um I and you ask me to leap to delete them I would be kind of in with whatever you wouldn't actually do that I don't think I would I did with my Ex but don't you just mean when you do that? Do you expect them to actually delete them.
[55:53] Mike: Oh here we go hey.
[55:59] Keith: I you know it was just I think when I asked him I just said I was like can you delete all these videos and photos and he basically was pretty mad at me. He's like well I deleted everything I'll right I was like okay tight. Well that solves my problem. No, you didn't oh if you didn't whatever but I mean it just it's for me, it's a comfort thing I think after a point when like. this is my this is just my personal thing. But yeah, when you break up with somebody I'm like you don't have access to my body anymore. Yeah, get rid of my nudes go on the next person get their nudes. Okay I understand why you want that to be the case but you but you can see I decide why you want that to be a case and you can just. You know, have to defend all your archives of news. It's okay I have the archives I haven't dated many women that like send me newsdes like I don't I wish I was bored. You know twenty years later and I would just have this vast collection of of of volva pictures. But I I just don't um.
[56:47] Mike: You could they have glasses that have hidden cameras in them Keith so that way you could take ah videos and pictures without them knowing that might be might be illegal I'm not sure all right.
[56:53] Keith: I I don't think I would have to I don't I don't think I would need to hide a camera actually. But yeah I think I think it's reasonable for women to ask men to delete I think it's naive of them to. Ah, so ah to expect it to have actually been deleted does that make sense. No okay.
[57:14] Mike: And it's naive of them to expect them to actually delete it when they say they will because they won't I mean like yeah this is the problem with sending that stuff is people. Okay, yeah, it's not going to.
[57:19] Keith: Yeah, that's what I mean no I expect most men will be like oh yeah I I expect most men will say what your ex said which is like oh yeah I already deleted him and no he fucking didn't well I Hope that's like ah.
[57:32] Mike: Well he deleted them from the device that he uses normally but he kept them on the other device that he ah you know doesn't use all the time right.
[57:38] Keith: The but the backup storage. Yeah, probably's some next point though. How often do men like or do people should We have an archive like this. No no say how often do men like you know like jerk off to their exs photo. No I mean yeah yeah, in the case that we did have archives like this how often.
[57:54] Mike: I would say as often as possible right? So it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work all the time. What men are looking for is they're looking for content that will maximize the intensity of their perceived orgasm and so the problem is if you chirk.
[58:09] Keith: No their actual organism.
[58:13] Mike: Perceive. Okay, fine. The perceived intensity I mean well I mean but remember the reason I said perceived is because like it's like Orgasm's such a weird thing because for the for the person experiencing it it' this like big thing. But if you video yourself having an orgasm. It's like a little squirt gun or for the woman. It's even less potentially like so so it's just this. But if you perceive it very strongly and and so that.
[58:14] Keith: All right? Yeah yeah.
[58:32] Mike: And so a man if if if if if if thinking about his ex or looking at her pictures worked a lot. He would do it that much. He does it as much as he as much as makes sense. It's like it's like it's like what the market will bear. That's my view.
[58:44] Keith: What do you think is compelling about it.
[58:48] Mike: The fact that he is remembering the arousing reality that he did these things to this woman who now and the fact that her body's no longer available to him makes it way better. So actually he probably didn't.
[58:54] Keith: Um, yeah. It was like a time capsule.
[59:03] Mike: Yeah, he didn't masturbate to them when he was with her but now it's like oh she shut the door. Yes, it's like this is pretty good now if she was dead or something if she was dead. He probably stopped watching them because that's less compelling but like yeah this notion that like oh yeah, you're you're with this other guy now a particularly if she's rejected him in some way. It's like oh yeah, but you didn't reject me that time.
[59:09] Keith: It's a novelty.
[59:17] Keith: Yeah, it's ah yeah, it's almost like you're defiling. It. Yeah I mean I don't have vast archives of nudes. But you know we do have Instagram and Facebook so you know you can go and see your ex's you know. Some people post bikini pictures or or scantily clad or provocative stuff. Ah I haven't done this for a while but I used to go back and I swear I used to go back and.
[59:43] Mike: Here we go.
[59:50] Keith: Yeah, look at that kind of stuff but it's not an every time thing. It's it's sort of unusual for me but I would expect it to vary vary by man. But here's the thing I wanted to say about this post like I think it's somewhat normal for people to jerk off to thoughts or pictures or social media profiles of their exes. The thing that's embarrassing here is he got caught. Like you Obviously that's gonna be like a pretty affecting thing for your current partner like it's I think it's a pretty normal thing for men to do and so it's not like he's some sort of you know anomaly here but getting caught is just totally unacceptable because. And like the feelings that she's having of being like why are you doing that like why aren't you thinking about me like that's totally normal from her point of view but it's it's not like his crime is not that he did it his crime is getting caught like that's really sort of selfish of him or stupid.
[01:00:35] Mike: Right.
[01:00:43] Mike: This is this is a category this there's a category of response Keith has to these sorts of situations like let's say somebody. Ah, you know says something racist and or whatever like like puts a message on their work email system or you know messaging system that's racist like. Keith actually views the I sort of I actually tend to agree with him but he views the the stupidity of not realizing how stupid that was actually to be like ah of a higher order of badness than like having the thought in the first place because it's like look everybody has something they think or they want to do or maybe even do that's like not socially adaptive. It's the thing of like not having like the ability to realize that you know it's going to go terribly for you and then do it anyway like that's really where the stupidity goes. It's like it's like ah it's like playing the video game badly, it's like 1 thing to like have a stupid video game. It's another thing to like not learn the rules and play it and am I am i.
[01:01:37] Keith: Yeah, no, that's that's exactly right? Ah yeah, it's 1 thing to do like degenerate things. It's another to like get caught like I don't yeah I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on this solica none would you be would you be like.
[01:01:39] Mike: Ah, describing your view. Well yeah.
[01:01:47] Mike: Right.
[01:01:52] Mike: Do you ever? Yeah, go ahead.
[01:01:57] Keith: Like since we've had this conversation like like how how do you think your reaction would I just would you would never catch me doing this like um I would never but like let's say you caught a different X doing something like this like what do you think your reaction would be I don't yeah I mean like I think just I actually don't. It's never happening of course I Really don't know what my reaction would be I mean I Guess the question just like is I think the question would be why do you have these I don't for me, it's like I wouldn't know if they're old photos right? So The initial reaction would be like okay oh something else going on here right? Yeah and then after having the conversation but it's never glamorous catching someone masturbating right? because it's not like. You know it's you like you're sitting there sexy where like wearing lunch I think it's mostly like eitherre like laying and like you're like laying in bed like kind of huned over. Its not really glamorous to catch someone doing that I think I would mind catching you masturbating there. Um.
[01:02:45] Mike: Would you let me ask this would would you would what? What about the general s skiziness like let's say. For example, you let's say you worked in an office and ah you were there. Let's say covid wasn't happening so people went to the office and you went were there ah from 9 to 5 typically and you had various coworkers and you learned. That it was somewhat common or at least it happened that one of your male coworkers would come in on the weekend and masturbate at his desk would that bother you just the skeeziness of it.
[01:03:14] Keith: Now it's his own business long. It's not my desk.
[01:03:16] Mike: Interesting I think most people would be bothered in the point being like so so even so like the getting caught by it is 1 thing but I think even the fact that they're doing this sort of skeezy thing of like going through old photos masturbating in weird places I think would bother people.
[01:03:32] Keith: Yeah, no doesn't bother me I mean if it doesn't affect my life Personally, then it's just like I don't really care too much.
[01:03:37] Mike: Oh I want to say one more thing I actually think I would be bothered if I were you Keith by Alyssa by walking on Alissa Masturbating because I don't want the woman to foist sex on me like that same. It's too intimate. Yeah I want to decide when it I want to decide what's going to happen. It's like no no, not.
[01:03:49] Keith: You want to initiate.
[01:03:57] Mike: This isn't your decision to make lady. Yeah you you? Yeah yes, like yeah sure.
[01:03:58] Keith: Right? No, but. Okay, all right? We're over time here. So I'm going to wrap it so that's it for our fiftieth episode of your mileage may vary. Thanks for running the Gauntlet. Melissa thank you for having me and thanks to you Mike for your barbaric insight into female behaviors.
[01:04:19] Mike: Um, of course.
[01:04:22] Keith: And thanks to our listeners for giving us the benefit of the considerable doubt send us feedback or questions at ymmvpod@gmail.com follow us on Twitter at Ymmvpod and we look forward to having you back for our next episode.