Enjoy YMMV? Please click the above button to subscribe to the show!
Give us your email for show notes and reminders:  
To participate or give feedback, email us at ymmvpod@gmail.com.

Episode 54: Caught Masturbating! Can Open Relationships Work? Sister Wives, Female Rage After Not Orgasming

Team YMMV | 2-17-2022 | 58:38

Read The Transcript

      RSS             S      

We discuss masturbation habits and how they vary depending on sexual activity with a significant other in the recent past. Also discussed are the routines men have either to conceal their masturbation from others or to heighten the pleasure.

We discuss open relationships and the almost guaranteed issues when one partner is having a little too much fun. Taken to the logical extreme, can plural marriages work out?

And, a man's partner flies into a rage when she doesn't have an orgasm during sex. What should he do about it?

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/54/open-relationships

https://ymmv.me/54/masturbation-photos

https://ymmv.me/54/no-orgasm-rage

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with an intriguing blend of sophisticated analysis and tomfoolery. We have a spicy show plan for today with conversations around how a woman responds to not orgasming a husband's adorable masturbation material. And revisiting one of our favorite topics recently can open relationships work I'm Keith my co-host is Mike welcome Mike and now it's time for the obligatory begging. We'd very much appreciate if you could rate a review us on your podcasting app of choice.
  • [00:23] Mike: Thanks Keith.
  • [00:34] Keith: We pay $10 for feedback and we also enjoy receiving questions to answer on the show you may reach us at Ym at Ymmvpod on Twitter or ymmvpod at http://gmail.com the best way you can help us of course is to recommend us to your friends and family sure this isn't the most high minded show. But. Confident your connections will appreciate your exquisite taste. So let's get started. Um Mike I so how do you decide when to masturbate I've been meditating a bit on the difference in our masturbation habits and I went to investigate what's causing that. Maybe we should start by. Can you explain what? you think the difference in our masturbation habits is.
  • [01:18] Mike: I Think that the primary difference First of all I'm ah it's interesting that you are so keenly aware of there being a difference it' um, it suggests that I'm not even sure how you would have it make me nervous. They're like cameras in my house or something but I think.
  • [01:28] Keith: Um, this is.
  • [01:38] Mike: Probably the number one difference is going to be a boring one which is just going to be like you have more control over your environment than I usually do meaning that you live alone in an apartment whereas I live in a house with a family and so that is going to. Enable you to have much more access to loan time with a guaranteed lack of interruption and I mean that's actually important because if you this may like never happen to you actually, but like if you ah. Kind of getting there and you get interrupted like that's pretty uncomfortable and so you really want to I mean well it's uncomfortable if you actually get walked in on but setting that aside because that's easy to avoid with very well. It's easy to avoid with ah with technology and technology. Yeah, like.
  • [02:18] Keith: Sure. Yeah, that that the awkwardness there is awful like a lock right? it's.
  • [02:34] Mike: Fifteenth century technology like a lock but but but but yeah, but like this thing of like it's more like the thing of you know you're just yeah, you're going to be uncomfortable if you you don't want to start and not be able to finish. That's a problem and so and so that's definitely I think that's the number 1 thing actually that operates as a determinant for me is like okay well you know.
  • [02:45] Keith: Huh yeah.
  • [02:52] Keith: Yeah I mean I don't know what the arrangement protocol between you and your wife is but I have a girlfriend but she is not around seven days a week like
  • [02:53] Mike: How much time do I have here.
  • [03:08] Mike: Right.
  • [03:10] Keith: Presumably Your wife is and so I think that's also another key difference.
  • [03:16] Mike: That's right I mean it's just yeah, it's It's not I mean it also like you don't really I mean regardless of what kind of arrangement you have like I don't think that um I don't think that basically any guy wants to be beating off and have their significant other. Like just cruise in like that I think that's not I mean maybe there's some guy out there who that's like that's that's their mode of operation. But I Actually think that's not common regardless of what kind of relationship you have um, just because it's I don't know it's sort of intrusive on the other person and I mean if you're. If you wanted to do some other Activity. You would have you know you would have pursued that other activity like you're doing it. Yeah on Purpose. So.
  • [03:55] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean I haven't been I haven't had a live in partner for a long time now since my twenty s really and so. Not really sure what the right? I do Yeah I'm not sure how I would negotiate figuring out in my mind I mean I Guess over time you just develop a pattern where you can sort of intuit whether your partner is interested in having sex that day.
  • [04:29] Mike: Sure I mean but sure but that's not like I don't think the right thing to think I don't think it's right to think of ah like it's masturbating and having sex are not direct replacements for each other right? like they're not yeah so it's so you might you know.
  • [04:31] Keith: Is that right.
  • [04:41] Keith: Now they're not.
  • [04:48] Mike: Yeah I mean you might you might make a choice. Regardless, you might not care. You might not care about what your partner's interest level is that day and so yes I agree with well yes I agree with your statement that you generally have some intuition there. Um I Also think it's sort of it doesn't matter that much right to to this decision making process.
  • [05:01] Keith: Do you feel? Do you feel regret when you have masturbated and it later becomes obvious that sex was available.
  • [05:13] Mike: Not typically I could imagine that are you asking that question because you've had that experience. Yeah.
  • [05:17] Keith: Um, right? Well I mean my sexual experience over the last ten years has been I had 1 5 year partner but excluding her There's often sort of the situation where I have to decide between masturbating and potentially compromising later sexual performance or holding out for sex but risking being disappointed and.
  • [05:50] Mike: Oh I'd like to talk about that second that second one let's let's hear more about that. What? what? Ah what is your? ah I mean when you say disappointed I mean like you still is this because you would and it could still happen right? I mean although maybe maybe less I don't know but ah in that second use case.
  • [05:54] Keith: Mr.
  • [06:09] Mike: Ah, is it that you basically would not then have like let's okay I'm imagining you basically decide not to masturbate because you're going to go out on a date with somebody and then you're going to have dinner and do all these various things is it because you basically wouldn't you know that you would not have any time alone between when that.
  • [06:18] Keith: Um, afternoon.
  • [06:28] Mike: When that begins in bedtime and so basically you could get effectively cock blocked by your girlfriend is that the risk.
  • [06:34] Keith: Well let's say it's noon. Okay and I'm bored and feel like masturbating. It's something that I might not do if I am positive that I'm going to be having sex lately. It also sort of depends like.
  • [06:37] Mike: Yeah.
  • [06:52] Keith: How much I've masturbated over the last few days I don't have to save up that much but I don't want to be completely dry entering a sexual encounter, especially an early sexual encounter and so yeah, there's like this. Balancing act going on there? Yeah well I mean arguing by extremes. Let's say I masturbated 5 times the day of a date and we go out to dinner and things are going well and she invites me back to her place and.
  • [07:09] Mike: When you say completely dry. Can you put more color on that.
  • [07:29] Keith: Now I'm there but you know I've masturbated 5 times that day my my sexual appetite is probably a little suppressed in that situation.
  • [07:34] Mike: Okay I was but I wanted to make sure that you were talking I wasn't sure whether you were talking actual physical dryness like a lack of semen because I was going to reassure you that that although although you know ah I'm not sure if it was on the podcast last week or. Separately when we were talking to Allie about this like she expressed some concern like that she would genuinely I think have a level of disappointment if there was not fluid which I didn't really understand I mean I okay, all right I can I guess it makes some sense.
  • [08:05] Keith: I don't remember that conversation but I often don't remember conversations when I've had 2 or 3 drinks which is well. There's good and bad aspects of that but is it is it the objective volume or the subjective volume. So subjectively.
  • [08:10] Mike: I do.
  • [08:20] Mike: First.
  • [08:22] Keith: She gets to know her partner and she expects an average of say you know 5 ccs of semen and if he produces two ccs ah is it that difference or is it or is it like. Or or does the seamen itself have some sort of value to her like is it is it the semen volume as a representative of how pleased he was or is it the seamen itself that she enjoys in some way.
  • [08:43] Mike: I Think it's.
  • [08:54] Mike: It's a little hard for me to to stand in for her here. But I'll I'll give it a shot I think it's mostly ah, there's probably an element of it being some sort of um, like the more more means that he liked it more. But I think it's mostly just. Like the notion of like just feeling him spasming and nothing coming out is just kind of like that's just not what's supposed to happen and that would be kind of negative experience. Um, although I think that that like having nothing come out is sort of unusual. Um potentially and maybe not impossible but very unusual.
  • [09:12] Keith: No yeah.
  • [09:28] Mike: Um, but I think yeah I mean I think it's just part like part of the expected experience or something like that. So just be kind of weird if that didn't happen. Um, although yeah, it's difficult. It's a difficult counterfactual because she's probably never and also keep in mind this is only really going to matter in oral right? because ah.
  • [09:31] Keith: Um, right? yeah.
  • [09:44] Keith: Right.
  • [09:47] Mike: Pi V You're not really going to notice exactly what's going on there. Um, So yeah I mean it's and also it's ae difficult counterfactual because I suspect that the situation. Well I mean yeah, guess you could put like a really tight rubber band around your cock and nothing would come out. There are some men that can hold it really tight and then they. Ejaculate into their bladder. Um yes, it's called a it's called Retrograde ejaculation if people want to look it up. Yeah.
  • [10:05] Keith: Yeah, you've we've discussed that in brief before I would rather not extensively discuss that because that sounds painful and disgusting and terrifying yeah have fun listeners. Ah. I should have clarified this at the start. But yeah, my interpretation is that I masturbate significantly more often than you and I think your intuition is probably right that it is mostly situational so you don't have the safety to do it as.
  • [10:28] Mike: See.
  • [10:41] Keith: Ideally, as you would like I live alone and don't have any concerns around that and ah yeah, you have like a somewhat more reliable access to sex than I do.
  • [10:54] Mike: I I think that most men So when you say a lot I I mean I'm going to take that to mean that like what is your average daily frequency just ballpark.
  • [11:03] Keith: I feel like daily is not the right unit. It should be weekly or something because what happens is on the days that I see go on. Yeah.
  • [11:08] Mike: Okay, fine weekly. no no I yeah I was just going to ask you what the weekly number will I mean the thing is you can just divide it by 7 but let's let's see what's your weekly frequency is it 4 is it 12
  • [11:20] Keith: Yeah, but well I have this variance because it depends on how often I see Alyssa and I don't know I think ah i.
  • [11:26] Mike: Okay, ah, fine monthly. Do you want monthly.
  • [11:40] Keith: Okay, let's let's try to do weekly. Let's say this is a week where I am going to see a elissa for 2 evenings and I am going to have 5 evenings by myself I think in that situation probably the day after I see Alyssa I will masturbate one to.
  • [11:59] Mike: Jesus.
  • [11:59] Keith: 3 times and and then yeah, but see we just have like a different pattern here. We have a different life experience that I think might be well I don't I mean I mean can you even know like when's the last time you've had sort of like 2 interrupted weeks by yourself to sort of fall into whatever your natural pattern might be.
  • [12:16] Mike: Oh that's this is really easy like my natural pattern would be all in the order of once per day or less like like say point 7
  • [12:25] Keith: Yeah I sometimes like masturbating 3 to 4 times a day. It's I don't know if I do that I don't think I do that once a week maybe once every 2 weeks maybe I should? Um, yeah, we've seen some of these. Sociopaths on on Reddit I don't have sociopaths the right word psychopaths weirdos on Reddit chart various sexual things. Wonder if I should chart every time I have an orgasm and try to get to the bottom of this for science.
  • [12:50] Mike: Jesus you probably should the the like 1 thing I would say is that um, what 1 question I have is so I'm I'm curious about 2 things and I think there are our listeners would be 2 1 is let me finish though 1 is what motivates the 3 The day after you have an evening with your girlfriend I'm curious about that and I yeah is it because you forget having sex with her because of the alcohol. Yeah yeah.
  • [13:10] Keith: Um, just one 1 clarification 1 clarification. Yeah I think it would be the day after the day after so you know the morning the morning that we're still together might involve some sex.
  • [13:20] Mike: So all right.
  • [13:29] Keith: And then maybe I would masturbate later in the day. But yeah, but you see what I'm saying like it's complicated because yeah, like the the presence or non presence of a partner has a big effect and so yeah.
  • [13:31] Mike: Okay, so I'm curious about.
  • [13:45] Mike: Sure I understand so okay, hang on so the first question would be what um what motivates that the day out. Whatever you know you? you basically identified a trend you identified that there's 2 or 3 the day after the day after the day of whatever the you know the following day and then the second question would be like what.
  • [13:59] Keith: Um.
  • [14:04] Mike: Like isn't the third time say or fourth time like not great like I mean I think I'd be interested in the answers to those 2 questions.
  • [14:10] Keith: Yeah, the third or fourth times are not as great as the first or second. But if you space them outright and source adequately interesting material. And you know, really commit to the pit you can get it out and yeah I mean they're not as great as the first one but there's still positive value and so why not and I think a lot of this might have to do with boredom I'm not sure I did.
  • [14:38] Mike: Okay, and what? okay.
  • [14:44] Keith: The thing that like prompted me to bring this up in the first place is yeah I wonder if given similar dependent variables like so you know safety and lack of access to a sexual partner I wonder if our patterns would converge to be around the same or if I use masturbation as a tool to relieve boredom more than. You and or most people.
  • [15:04] Mike: I think the second one is likely but I'd like to understand. So do you have any insight into why it's like 2 or 3 the day after the day after or whatever like do you think you have like a upsurge in some hormone or something because of having had sex with your girlfriend.
  • [15:17] Keith: Well I think yeah I think I'm a little bit drained from the experience of being with my girlfriend and I don't like masturbating say 3 times the day of or really even the day before.
  • [15:25] Mike: And I.
  • [15:36] Keith: Seeing ah my partner and so yeah, there's some sort of ah sweet spot. goldilocks zone there of it's going to be There's there's still a little bit of time before I'm going to see my partner next It's been enough time since I saw her last and. I have enough stored up to to work my way through 3 or 4 masturbation endeavors a day.
  • [16:03] Mike: Interesting and what um have you had a situation in your ah vast experience here where you've had a partner with whom you had such a vigorous period of time that you basically didn't masturbate for a significant period of time like say. Ah, because I have ah someone I've spoken. To recently who said that he yeah he essentially like just stopped masturbating completely because of a particular relationship situation. Ah because of the high quantity of sex. Not low, not not some weird like not some like negative thing like depression or something This was like yeah.
  • [16:31] Keith: Um, huh.
  • [16:38] Keith: Right? right? right? I don't know I don't think so but this is another reason why I should chart things because yeah, it's hard to ah, it's hard to have an objective view of what's going on here because my.
  • [16:41] Mike: That has that happened to you.
  • [16:57] Keith: Subjective recollection is deeply imperfect.
  • [16:58] Mike: Yeah, it's relatively common on the sex subreddit to see women. Well either men who've been kind of hit with this or women come on and basically express frustration or have experienced frustration of a woman because of something like well you know it's. I'm totally available to him. Why does he still you know I caught him masturbating why was he doing that or he sheepishly Admitted. He was masturbating even though I'm completely available to him which is sort of I sort of understand the woman's perspective in that situation. Ah, you know she's thinking like why can't he Why does he need to do this still or why would he want to.
  • [17:31] Keith: Right.
  • [17:34] Mike: Um, yeah, which is but I guess to you I actually sort of understand that it's like well yeah I mean like if you had a woman that was sufficiently sufficiently compelling and just like wanted sex a high enough amount of the time you'd be like I could see that I could see basically reducing that. But for you I think you would not reduce.
  • [17:51] Keith: Yeah I don't think so I don't think so either I think there's some look I prefer sex to masturbating if but it's not exactly comparing apples to apples. They.
  • [17:53] Mike: Think you I think you would say no I do.
  • [18:06] Mike: Um, that's true.
  • [18:09] Keith: They they scratch slightly different needs and so yeah, there are situations where masturbating can be pretty compelling.
  • [18:18] Mike: Right? And the I mean I think yours are different from mine in terms of the even the scratching the different needs I think that ah a compelling difference is the fact that there is no need for like emotional intimacy and masturbation which I find compelling? yeah.
  • [18:30] Keith: Yeah, yeah, ah I like emotional and intimacy. But there's still I don't know if there's something about sex that masturbating that I don't know it's It's less.
  • [18:35] Mike: Yeah I don't want to be that vulnerable Keith yeah.
  • [18:48] Keith: What he word surere here. It's at the Headord it's less of a it's less of an investment. You can just sort of you know, start finish and then get on with your day in a way that you can't with a partner. Okay, let's move on.
  • [18:53] Mike: Right.
  • [19:00] Mike: Exactly Yeah I think that's common.
  • [19:06] Keith: Ah, let's get back to our 1 of our recent common topics which is non-monogamy this person on Reddit says me and my girlfriend are in an open relationship but she broke all the rules and ignored me for an entire night while she fucked someone else.
  • [19:12] Mike: Earth.
  • [19:22] Keith: Me and my girlfriend had been dating for almost a year and we decided to open our relationship as we are going to be long distance for a while we decided to set up a very clear set of rules foreshadowing which included using protection at all times and not spending the night with someone else.
  • [19:33] Mike: Um, I visit.
  • [19:38] Keith: She also promised to record a little something for me to make me feel included. He unfortunately does not expand on that I wonder what she promised to record in any case. However, when she went on her date. She forgot all about me messaged me only a few times. Sure how many times he wanted to be messaged and fucked and fucked him.
  • [19:53] Mike: Right? It's all strange.
  • [19:57] Keith: Up to 4 times in one night without a condom she that might be more than that. That's the numbers that she said I don't know maybe around 4 She ignored my repeated calls and texts and left me unable to sleep all night. She said this was revenge because I had gotten a lap dance from a stripper a few nights prior.
  • [19:59] Mike: Up to.
  • [20:07] Mike: Grant.
  • [20:17] Keith: She also fell hard for the guy and had a major crush on him for a few days. She completely broke my heart that night what should I do and where does this leave our relationship I have lots to say here. Do you want me to start or would you like to.
  • [20:29] Mike: I would there's something I would note which is like well there's something that you and I were discussing I think I mean first of all like the other's obvious things like what's wrong with people that they like to 3 or 4 texts or like some kind of texting and interchange is like considered nothing. It's like look like. People just require that like the the neediness of people in this day and age is crazy. but but um the other thing is like you and I were discussing like this. Ah this topic of like what percentage of the time at various ages. These people are pretty young I know but at various ages like what is the ratio of like kissing. If you kiss a woman. What is the odds that you will have sex and you were saying that like basically it gets to the point where it's like almost one for 1 which I just think is kind of interesting because it's like ah yeah, what it what it indicates is that like there actually aren't different levels of intimacy. There's like totally non-intimate and there's fucking.
  • [21:06] Keith: Um.
  • [21:25] Mike: And those are the only levels possible and this made me think of that right? because it's like you have this like yeah I mean yeah, it's It's basically it doesn't mean anything they're they're fine. They're in this open relationship but it doesn't mean anything for her to have some kind of intimacy with another guy like no, it's it's like look the second anything is broached there.
  • [21:39] Keith: Right.
  • [21:45] Mike: He's just gonna be. It's just gonna be like look shes he's just nutting all over the plays like it's like just sodom and gamorra. It's great. It's great.
  • [21:47] Keith: Right? right? Just just totally submissive to this new person. Ah yeah I mean there's a lot of things this person doesn't say their age but there's a lot of things that imply significant youth. For example, they're not going to be seeing each other for a while probably because they're in school.
  • [22:01] Mike: So yes.
  • [22:07] Keith: Ah, the texting the saying this was revenge because I'd gotten a lap dance from a stripper a few nights prior this notion of she fell hard for the guy and had a major crush on him for a few days which is.
  • [22:08] Mike: Right.
  • [22:19] Mike: Yeah I caught that? yeah.
  • [22:22] Keith: Ah, she completely broke my heart which is yeah anyway, this person is is young. Ah I wanted to bring this up because yeah I mean the problem with having your partner sleep with another person is that your partner loves it and. It requires ah extreme emotional character and strength to not feel jealousy over such a thing and so that paradox is a big problem with non-monogamy and. This one is a particularly egregious example I mean I don't know what rules they set up but it it sounds like the rules were something like you need to record something for me I don't know what that is you need to text me somewhere north of 4 times in the night you need to use a condom and. Yeah but even then like your girlfriend is still getting plowed by some other dude 4 times like what What's the thing that he's actually upset about here I don't think it's that she broke these sort of bizarre rules. It's that yeah, it's that his girlfriend was getting plowed by someone else.
  • [23:32] Mike: Right? I mean it's well yeah, but it's that it's that thing of like he was expecting. Yeah people he was expecting there to be some sort of limit on her behavior and it's and like that's not that's just not how society felt I'm not sure if society ever functioned that way. That's a thing I don't know.
  • [23:47] Keith: Who.
  • [23:51] Mike: But it's certainly not the way it functions now and so his his expectation was was unrealistic but also like there's something sort of that I find kind of wonderful in that which is like you have all these people going around everybody wearing these clothes and everybody's acting like you know. Very standoffish to each other and then like just one one little thing happens and people are just fucking the shit out of each other you know I mean it's like it's like it's so bimodal and it's like it makes it impossible to like take it makes it sort of um, a mental mistake to take seriously anybody's like sort of public appearance or public.
  • [24:12] Keith: Right? right.
  • [24:27] Mike: Posture that they're like you know chaste or ah, you know hey I have limits on me Behavior or whatever like there just isn't like this. Yeah I just find that very interesting that that's that's what makes me think about.
  • [24:36] Keith: Yeah I mean we don't know the circumstances surrounding this but perhaps she was upset that he had gotten a lap dance from a stripper a few nights prior but ah she may have shown up to who knows where she met this man. I'm using man generously potentially boy and ah yeah I mean she might have just yeah his experience might have been like yeah I was you know at this party and this girl like just came up to me and we talked for 10 minutes And then she was like hey do you want to come back to buy and and yeah I mean it's.
  • [25:13] Mike: What but isn't I mean like so I mean there there' are various like ways in which people talk about like because of women becoming more important at various functions and in companies and governments I mean you know women are are much more involved than they were like however many years ago
  • [25:24] Keith: Um. Any.
  • [25:30] Mike: And there's a lot of commentary on that people people say like it's like ah ah, feminizing our culture.. There's like a female dominant thing but and and I think your like dating experience bears this out that like the dating Circle Sphere has I think become like hyper masculinized like it's like I Just don't I don't believe I don't believe. That this type of behavior is actually what women would choose if they felt like they had a free choice like I think this is I think this kind of stuff is like actually like deeply I realize like a woman could argue. Oh This is very feminist because it's like ah it's very feminist because right? Yeah, but.
  • [26:00] Keith: They have autonomy and agency over their body and so on and so forth.
  • [26:07] Mike: But I don't actually think that's right because I think they I think that if they were given ah actual free choice. Um, and and and this might be born out for example in like Lesbian relationships. Maybe I mean there may be ways to sort of investigate this that I of course not not done ah only mental exercises and minor amounts of reading but like on this topic but like. Yeah I just I find it really hard to believe given like sort of traditional and normal female or what I perceive as normal female behavior that like women really want to just immediately be getting pounded by some guy they meet at a party and having sex 4 times like it's just like look this This is just hyper masculine and this is what I would expect honestly like a a gay like um nightclub Or. Um, trying to think like a bathhouse is like a bathhouse right? I mean that's what like I've never been to a bathhouse they sort of frighteneden me and part of the reason is because I just expect that at a bathhouse. It's just these dudes mean on some level like why couldn't I go to a bathhouse but I just figure. It's so hyper masculine and it's just they're just fucking everywhere and like I don't want to have that happen to me.
  • [26:50] Keith: Yeah.
  • [27:00] Keith: Yeah.
  • [27:04] Mike: And I just feel like this sounds a lot like that doesn't this sound like ah a bathhouse to you like it's just like Bam you know, just immediate sex and crazy stuff happening.
  • [27:10] Keith: Yeah I think the sort of guardrails and norms around engaging in actual sex have definitely been Lowered. Um, just the response to a couple things. The first is. Yeah, Lesbian sort of famously quickly moved to intimacy but I'm not sure that necessarily contradicts what you're saying here I think women. Yeah well I mean.
  • [27:36] Mike: Where you have to define intimacy right.
  • [27:45] Keith: Penetrative sex amongst Lesbians is is fairly difficult without external things and even if you are using an external things in many ways. It's sort of less intimate than than penetrative sex with a man. Um, but I do think that generally women.
  • [27:59] Mike: Okay.
  • [28:04] Keith: But wait. Yeah, this is such a this is going to sound controversial and we can discuss whether it is but I think generally women would prefer more courtship than men and the sort of of. Leftist Feminist zeitgeist of our current. Our current Era is such that women are encouraged to be more free with their sexuality and their sexual experiences and encounters and. Some extent that that appears to be a feminist. Um, you know a pro-feminist move but I'm not sure if you know in there. Yeah I'm not sure if their biological desires sort of. Perfectly line up with that. It's it's it's complicated.
  • [28:57] Mike: Yeah, well I mean you can you can argue it from like the opposite side you can say like look where did where did the various like cultural courtship rituals come from and like yeah maybe you could say they came from men I guess but I mean like or a kid.
  • [29:06] Keith: Or seems unlikely.
  • [29:14] Mike: Yeah I mean look look I mean I feel like I know how men behave right? and so it's like well if so I don't think this? yeah I don't think it would be the druthers of most men to have to go through some complicated procedure or lasting months to sort of court someone you know I mean men might enjoy that. But it's like not I mean like yeah I mean like ultimately men. Yeah, we were just talking about masturbating 3 and 4 times a day like this is a more male thing and so it's like well if it didn't come from men if it's not primarily to suit men. It's like where is this from you know what is what are what is this trying who is this trying to sort of make comfortable and so forth and I don't know it makes sense to me that there is some ah female. Benefit that's derived from that. It also makes sense from like since the woman has to um carry if you're going to if you get pregnant. The woman is really the one shouldering a lot of the burden there. Um, it makes sense that she would be selective and having a courtship gives her some selectivity. It makes sense sort of historically that there would be a.
  • [30:08] Keith: Yeah.
  • [30:08] Mike: Female desire there. But maybe maybe modern life makes it So that's irrelevant to women and and now they operate it just it just all I'm saying is that like that story that I heard from that question just sounded hyper masculine eyes to me. It's just it just sounded like a bathhouse.
  • [30:22] Keith: Yeah, although the man who wrote it is feeling insecure about her partner being sexually liberated.
  • [30:31] Mike: sure sure I look I would love to go to a place where ah, you just like have some drinks and then women want to fuck you 4 times immediately. That'd be a great I'd like I would like that that's like wherever that bar is not the one in Tijuana where you pay for a prostitute I mean like 1 where they you know.
  • [30:39] Keith: Right.
  • [30:51] Mike: They genuine you know I wanted to love me first. Keith.
  • [30:53] Keith: Do you think it's safe to say that the ideal situation for men is to have many sexual partners that are monogamous with them.
  • [31:08] Mike: Ah yes I think that I think that you're asking like what I think that I mean I venture you're going to say something else, you're going to ask like is the ideal for men to just get to fuck whenever they want to first order I think that is although the second order problem there is that like they're they're basically society society breaks down. But yes I actually suspect that the way. We we are supposed to function the way like numerous kind of large animals behave where there's basically a dominant male who has a lot of the females and and runs off the other males or like sort of subjugates them I suspect that is in fact, how humans like kind of there's a certain biology behind that? yeah.
  • [31:33] Keith: Um.
  • [31:42] Keith: Okay, and what about the reverse So a woman who has convinced herself that polyamory is the way to go? Ah, no, no, no, no okay maybe that's not the right.
  • [31:54] Mike: Polyandry You mean a woman with multiple men or polyamory in terms of a woman who's.
  • [32:01] Keith: Ah, phraseology I said polyamory but I what I mean is is there a situation where women want their male partner to go around and sleep with a bunch of men and she she remains. Ah.
  • [32:11] Mike: Hang on Keith we have to we have to hang on. We have to pause I I doing this in incognino mode have me write down what the timestamp is. We're like 30 halfway through I mean after like split the yeah so what happened is when I forgot about this when you're in.
  • [32:20] Keith: Um, like 32
  • [32:30] Mike: Incognito mode. It limits the amount of local storage available. So I need to stop and then make a new recording and prop and the reason I did incognito mode is because I was logged in as you and didn't want to boot you out and I forgot that it did this only? Okay, yeah.
  • [32:32] Keith: Um, okay.
  • [32:40] Keith: Okay, all right, let me stop? Do you know when it when when did it stop though was it at exactly 30 Ok all right? So we're okay, okay, but.
  • [32:47] Mike: It made that set it made the little thing like right before I mentioned it so it was approximately 30 Yeah I just don't know if my data will get lost or something. Yeah.
  • [32:55] Keith: I'm trying to figure out where we need to pick things back up. Let me let me stop this and it'll refresh. Our browsers.
  • [33:00] Keith: My question is is there a situation where women want their partner to be sleeping with a lot of other people and they are comfortable with themselves just being with him but my I guess my my thought here is no, they want. To sort of lock him down in some way.
  • [33:16] Mike: I Think that biologically like it's this is just yeah I mean like biologically or in a state of nature. It makes a lot of sense that she would want the man to be with her and only her because yeah, she wants to have.
  • [33:27] Keith: Faithful.
  • [33:32] Mike: His resources be dedicated to the kids she has with him I mean I think these things are kind of obvious people can argue about this stuff. But I think anything's pretty obvious. Um, that said I mean like there's this Tv show I Really do devote more of my life than I should than probably as normal to these sort of weird sexual topics. Um.
  • [33:33] Keith: Right.
  • [33:46] Keith: Um.
  • [33:49] Mike: Watch I have watched in the past this tv show called sister wives that you're probably aware of um which is ah wow. It's a fundamentalist mormon family FLds you have fundamentalist latter-day saint family who ah where it's a single husband and 4 wives and.
  • [33:52] Keith: Yes, but I have never seen.
  • [34:08] Mike: Yeah I mean like they have a lot of problems but I don't think their problems are primarily from ah from like jealousy around this kind of stuff. It's more like it doesn't interact well with modern life and by the way in that show. Ah like it's kind of interesting. Ah let's see one of the women had like an ah ah the the first wife now has had a ah she had a some so she claims it was catfic. Basically she had something that's like some kind of an affair with somebody and and that the husband doesn't have sex with her anymore. The second wife is my favorite but she's very she's like.
  • [34:35] Keith: Ah.
  • [34:46] Mike: Obese and I suspect they don't have sex that much. Ah, maybe they do I'm sorry to you guys if you listen and and you do have a lot of sex the third wife. Ah they're they're basically like just revealed that they've gotten divorced and then the fourth wife appears to be the one the the youngest appears to be the main one. He has sex with and so it's kind of funny that like.
  • [34:59] Keith: Yeah, okay, right.
  • [35:05] Mike: There's some kind of pattern in the show that like I mean I don't think that's supposed to be what like the learning Channel or whatever puts on the show wants you to find but it's actually kind of interesting that like like what happens is sort of what you would suspect which is like the guy basically gravitates to the most recent wife but I think it's kind of funny.
  • [35:10] Keith: Um, persons.
  • [35:20] Keith: Yeah I mean we've talked about this before but like in basically all circumstances. The man will choose the more attractive person. Even if it's like comparing a nine point one to a nine point zero they're almost always going to do it. Do you think that in that sort of mormon set up the notion of shared resources from the man. Makes it a little bit easier for the woman so in ah in a in a situation in the wild where the man is just spraying a seed all over I can imagine the women getting upset because he may abandon them. But if they're bonded by some sort of marriage contract or some sort of understanding that they're all sort of part of a pod where they're going to be sharing resources. It might be more.
  • [36:00] Mike: Yeah, so a couple of things about that I don't think that the humans in the wild would really actually be like what you might imagine a raccoon doing or a rat or something where they're just spraying their seat I Actually think even in the wild you would have something more like I mean yeah if you take like great apes or something they have like these societal structures and so that wouldn't.
  • [36:00] Keith: Tolerable for the women.
  • [36:08] Keith: Um.
  • [36:18] Mike: I Think that to get to that level. You have to actually to the spraying the seed level. You have to go to a pretty simple animal. So and then yeah I mean like so so so point being that I think that like the behavior that you would see with like mormons or whatever groups that are ah polygamist is probably actually pretty similar to what humans would do in the wild and.
  • [36:21] Keith: Listen.
  • [36:37] Mike: You could it be functional in both cases. Yeah I mean like the problem. The problem is that we the the fundamental problem is that humans have a 50% approximately chance of having a boy or a girl as an offspring and so you're naturally going to have a bunch of boys who don't have a partner now I mean historically maybe that was solved by like wars or um.
  • [36:46] Keith: Um, this is.
  • [36:57] Mike: You know the fact that like the world was so large that the the boys that didn't have a partner could go off somewhere else and conquer other people I mean there are various things you could do to get more partners but I mean like ultimately in a steady state like it's you can see just numerically it stops working unless you're right? yeah.
  • [37:08] Keith: Yeah, 1 to 1 is yeah.
  • [37:15] Mike: But I mean but on the other hand like it's not that surprising like from my perspective. It's you know if if you think like well let's imagine 1 in 4 or 1 in 8 or something of men are going to be higher on various spectrums. Whether it's physical strength iq creativity whatever it is that is matters for success like it's not it. You could imagine a society that functioned pretty well where that one out of 4 one out of 6 whatever guys gets all the women and then sure the other guys are pissed off and not very happy about their lives. But yeah I mean like it just is what it is like they just get to beat off a lot and sneak around trying to get some sex where they can so could there be a society that just.
  • [37:44] Keith: Yeah.
  • [37:51] Mike: Fully even at a steady state polygamist I think there could and I also think I mean if you watch sister wives like that's not I mean I don't think women care as much about that as I don't think a man would like it very much although I realize there are some societies that are polyandrous. Um, it's less common. Yeah.
  • [38:06] Keith: Yeah I mean I guess my fundamental question here is who finds it more intolerable to have their partner being sleeping with other people which sex.
  • [38:19] Mike: Definitely it's it's the man. It's the man because the because it's it's obviously the man at least let's just speak like from first principles. It's the man because what's what what could happen to the man you could I mean just watch Jerry Springer or what was that the morey show.
  • [38:33] Keith: Events.
  • [38:35] Mike: Like the morey show basically has turned maurypovich has turned into I don't know if it's still in the air but it turned into basically ah parent ah paternity tests and the whole thing is like you know are you the father you the father and then you know people don't want to so the point is guys don't want to have to deal with some other guy's kid. I mean this is in in general I realize they're men that are stepdads and are great. But in general, it's you know there's something negative there whereas the woman always knows she's the mom and so she doesn't face that same that same pressure like oh if somebody else slipped in here like I could basically get fooled into caring for this child. In in this sort of complicated way and even if even if you're a great guy like it's still got to be difficult like let's say you raise a kid till they're 10 you. Love them. They're your son or daughter and then you find out that it's someone else's kid even if you still love them I mean my god why you don't want. That's just a difficult thing that's going to be a wedge between you two for the rest of your lives like.
  • [39:22] Keith: Um, right.
  • [39:30] Keith: Right.
  • [39:32] Mike: And so I just think for a guy you have much more to lose there and then that's setting apart like just sort of jealousies and feelings and stuff like that whereas for a woman like her biggest risk is just that The guy's attention would be split. She's not she's not going to wind up with a kid That's potentially not hers. Yeah.
  • [39:43] Keith: Like yeah the resources will be split or whatever. Yeah.
  • [39:49] Mike: But think I think like just prima Faysia the risk the the the risk the guy faces is much higher. Um, anyway.
  • [39:53] Keith: Yeah, well okay, good luck to that guy with his likely ex-girlfriend indeed. Okay, all right. We have 2 other topics I promised in the intro so we have to at least get to those this person says well okay, so this is.
  • [39:59] Mike: And to the sister wives. Yeah.
  • [40:06] Mike: For sure. Yes.
  • [40:11] Keith: Apropos to a few weeks ago we discussed a situation where a woman walked in on her partner masturbating to pictures of his ex. Do you remember that conversation.
  • [40:17] Mike: This isn't going to be the one where the woman the man was masturbating to pictures of her is it me? Oh yeah, I that one was sort of treakly go on. Yeah, it's okay.
  • [40:21] Keith: It is yeah and I'm sorry we have to do this but it is something happened yesterday and I just don't know how to process it throw away count I'm equal parts giddy and wanting to cry yesterday. My husband of 18 years decided to work from home. He set his laptop up on the coffee table in the den and worked from there. The kids were all at school I did do some grocery shopping I came home and I guess I was quieter than I realized I caught my husband masturbating to random photos of me, not nude photos. No just random photos of me. Wasn't sure what to do so I quietly went back to the kitchen and made it sound like I just got home. He comes to the kitchen all normal and helps me carry all the bags in I couldn't look at him or I would have or I would gush and or cry even asked if I was okay, you're unusually quiet right now it was a little afternoon and I asked him if he had more work to do he said morning. Zoom calls were over and he just had. Tedious unimportant busy work for the day. A few minutes later I came back into the den and put and put it simply and to put it simply I fucked his brains out. What should I do though confront him and tell him how it made me feel with the potential of embarrassing him or just let it go been on the fence about sending provocative selfies to him I'm scared of stuff getting out. Think this may have changed my mind though. Yeah I do too. Yeah I am.
  • [41:33] Mike: Okay I have a take on this that will not be popular. Are you not reading. Okay my my take is that do you remember? Well you may not remember this but there there. Well there're various things like there's there was there. There were various video games that had what was called a boss key all right and you would.
  • [41:48] Keith: Ah, oh right? right? right? right? We have the same take here? Yes, yes yes.
  • [41:52] Mike: Yeah, so you'd be playing your video game and you could push like f 3 or some BS on the keyboard and it would pop up. It would pop up like a so spreadsheet. Yeah, and so look what happened here? Yes, okay, so what happened here is he heard her and he's like he's like.
  • [42:06] Keith: Ah, this is good I We totally agree.
  • [42:09] Mike: Right? And his like his his failsafe and this is really smart Actually his failsafe was not to to not to put his cock away his failsafe was to keep it out because he has to he he has so little time and he's like I'll just switch to photos of her then she'll think yeah I mean I don't like it's possible that he was doing this like you know I mean look like.
  • [42:10] Keith: It is smart. It is.
  • [42:18] Keith: Right? right.
  • [42:28] Mike: They've been married 18 years and so like is I think she said and so his memories of sex are going to be assuming. He's been faithful are going to be of her and so you never know like maybe that's what he's doing but but it isn't what he was doing. Yeah, not.
  • [42:40] Keith: I'll allow the possibility of course but come on now I mean this just sounds and like just the naivete dripping from her writing here is she doesn't even allow the possibility. Ah right.
  • [42:47] Mike: Yes, he just really quick with alt tab just really quick just I'll tap him? Yeah, oh for sure men have ah men have a lot of routines around this stuff that women don't realize like like.
  • [42:56] Keith: Yeah I mean and you know he probably heard the garage door open or whatever like come on. But.
  • [43:06] Mike: Men have look I mean men get caught all this stuff happens but men have more subtlety the routines than you think like they've got and sometimes the things they prepare are stupid. Yeah I mean do you do you have ah have you in your life Keith had like a routine that you had prepped. Maybe when you were a kid for like if your mom walked in or something did you have like some.
  • [43:07] Keith: That's right.
  • [43:23] Mike: Thing you were planning to do.
  • [43:23] Keith: Um, gosh my parents have never heard this podcast and you know God willing will but you know because if they do the thing I'm about to say.
  • [43:36] Mike: Sure.
  • [43:42] Keith: I'm not sure if it'll scar them or not maybe they knew right? you know and so you know my my little ah flimsy. What is it? What is it that like Jet Jets ah fighter Jets shoot off to like avoid missiles from hitting him. There's like flak and chaff I think.
  • [43:56] Mike: Ah, you chaff? Yeah, your chaff.
  • [43:59] Keith: Yeah, like maybe he was pathetic and the he always knew but my computer was in the basement and ah it was not close enough. It was yeah yeah, dark and and dingy down there man.
  • [44:09] Mike: Um, the basement.
  • [44:16] Keith: And it was It was not close enough to the stairs that I could hear people coming down the stairs it was It was a finished basement so there was carpet and and so and the computer was down the computer room was down like sort of a hallway and if I was listening carefully I could usually hear people coming. But you know it wasn't like having a closed door to your bedroom where like a parent will always knock like even if they wanted to let me know you know they'd have to wear a cowbell or something it it was it was difficult to actually announce your your arrival and so I was aware of this and and worried about getting walked in on and.
  • [44:44] Mike: Right.
  • [44:53] Keith: Yeah I mean this isn't this was a long wind up to a fairly disappointing story. But yeah I would wear a blanket over me but wasn't really it was a basement but it wasn't really that cold down there and so I'm just I Just wonder if. They knew that if they ever came in and I was wearing a blanket that I must have been masturbating I'm not sure.
  • [45:17] Mike: I wonder if I mean so but there is still like in that situation. There is still let's call it. No no, there's still like a minute or 30 seconds okay so I mean like this is something that our.
  • [45:24] Keith: Reasonable doubt.
  • [45:33] Mike: Female listeners in Allie will maybe not be able to understand but it's like or maybe never occurred to them. But there's still like a period of time toward toward when you're about to finish when you sort of know and so you have to sort of like I mean you, you don't have to but like it's much more pleasant to kind of not.
  • [45:42] Keith: Yeah.
  • [45:52] Keith: Yeah.
  • [45:52] Mike: Not have something well, there's 2 issues really issue number 1 is if you have a blanket on top of you then like the the tip of your cock is going to rub against the blanket and be weird but then secondly obviously there's the whole semen issue right? and so wouldn't you still and then all and then also like I mean if someone were to walk in like during the.
  • [46:04] Keith: Yep.
  • [46:09] Mike: Whatever 15 seconds of the orgasm itself like you might not notice you might write I mean so how did you handle that or just you just ran the risk.
  • [46:10] Keith: Um.
  • [46:15] Keith: I Mean the risk of somebody walking in right at the moment of Climax exists. But you know if you amortize it over the entire time of masturbating it's It's fairly unlikely I mean it depends I mean look if if you're in a high traffic area then obviously that risk is increased.
  • [46:23] Mike: A.
  • [46:28] Mike: So you would just find traffic here.
  • [46:34] Keith: But this was this This was not a high traffic area. They come down until me dinner was ready or to do my homework or whatever.
  • [46:38] Mike: Well so what? what would you? I mean you have this specific memory as most boy men do bent men do of their boyhood. Ah what? Ah what would you do with the blanket at that. Ah critical phase.
  • [46:44] Keith: Um.
  • [46:50] Keith: Are you asking how I didn't get semen on the blanket.
  • [46:56] Mike: I'm worried that this is going to go a bad direction. But yeah, yes, yes, that's what I'm asking. Oh no, it's so strange.
  • [46:58] Keith: Yeah I mean ah to good good question. No I would just usually masturbate into my underwear.
  • [47:11] Mike: Meaning you took them off bald them up and held them over the tip of your penis or you were wearing your underwear the first one wait. Okay so you would act didn't they notice. So if they came and you had a blanket on top.
  • [47:16] Keith: That's right, That's right? Ah, the the the former I would take them off and ball them up.
  • [47:28] Keith: Yeah.
  • [47:31] Mike: Not only would you have your cock out but your underwear would be out too. You you you didn't just lower your pants. You would actually have no clothes on your lower half.
  • [47:33] Keith: Yeah. Yeah I think I experimented with masturbating in my underwear. Ah, it's a little tricky.
  • [47:46] Mike: I Just think like most men would just or boys would just sort of lower them to sort of mid thigh like taking them off completely like what what's going on there like you just felt like you needed to have a lot of room to stretch around with your legs.
  • [47:54] Keith: Oh I liked I liked having something to catch the seamen.
  • [48:01] Mike: Why not have why did it have to be the thing you were wearing why because no no, it's just that It's just that let's say somebody comes and you've got the blanket there what I was imagining is that your solution is you just quickly pull up your underwarn shorts or pants or whatever and.
  • [48:04] Keith: Why he's gleen eggs or something.
  • [48:14] Keith: Okay.
  • [48:16] Mike: Then even yeah I mean just even if they take the vote. Yeah, you're very quickly. You're setting describe a situation where you actually cannot. You cannot like fix yourself even given like a minute under the blanket or say 20 seconds like you're in a really bad sort there.
  • [48:19] Keith: Um, yeah I think.
  • [48:28] Keith: Now I could pull my pants up. Oh and the people people would wonder people would wonder why I have underwear in my hands I mean but wouldn't people wonder why you have come all over your hands I mean it's There's no elegant solution here.
  • [48:32] Mike: Oh you would So you would take your underwear off.
  • [48:40] Mike: No, no, but you would wait wait wait wait. So let me understand this but you had to take your underwear off before you even started masturbating right? So it doesn't so this actually is a problem. Let's say your session lasted 20 minutes or 15 minutes like this is a problem.
  • [48:49] Keith: So.
  • [48:59] Mike: Throughout the entire duration. We're not just talking about that thirty second critical period at the end we're now talking about the whole session and I don't understand like you don't need your so is it that you had would you take your underwear off at the beginning or would you take them off would you get. Close to climax and then take them off like what was your strategy.
  • [49:16] Keith: I Don't understand your confusion here at the beginning.
  • [49:21] Mike: But but you have that but you you don't need anything to catch the semen for like a good ten fifteen minutes why would you this use man use some weird stuff I don't understand why you wouldn't just get some toilet paper.
  • [49:27] Keith: Um, there's no risk of having my underwear off.
  • [49:36] Keith: I don't like how toilet paper like flakes off and whatever actually yeah well I have I have something for next week to ah to show you.
  • [49:43] Mike: All right? Okay, all right? So I mean okay, fine. You could have had I mean paper Towel maybe does it last? Maybe there's a product that's needed here like ah like a semen some kind of toilet paper that doesn't do that.
  • [49:57] Keith: A comrag that's like made out of good material and oh like Well I mean there's disposable flushable wipes I mean you can imagine this being sort of a plush material something something nicer than Kleenex and not as not as rough as paper towel.
  • [50:01] Mike: Well no, but something disposable disposable is the key like washing like look at yeah Okay, so you could have done that all right.
  • [50:15] Keith: I don't know if such a thing existed especially in the late 90 s we do? Yeah yeah, we're running out of time here. We've got a topic left. So let's see here. Yeah man, we've been talking about masturbating specifically me a lot today.
  • [50:17] Mike: I hear you? Okay, we should get onto the next topic that we got one more.
  • [50:34] Keith: No I don't know if I much chiterest that is to our listeners. Ah this person says girlfriend gets mad and violent when she doesn't get an orgasm so I'm 25 male enjoying a happy relationship with my girlfriend 21 female of 1.5 years who started dating when she was 19 We understand each other a lot and get along super well.
  • [50:34] Mike: That's fine.
  • [50:50] Mike: The top.
  • [50:53] Keith: But for some reason when we have sex and she doesn't Orgasm. She'll go out she sorry grammar issues in the in the right here she'll get out of bed. Not talking to me and will give me the silent treatment This has happened a handful of times in our relationship. The other night we had sex twice and the first time we both finished at the same time. It was hot steaming steaming sex. It's to say steamy right? during the second time.
  • [51:20] Mike: Doesn't sound like like hot hot steaming is usually followed by a turd or a poop. It's really funny.
  • [51:29] Keith: I finished first and passed out shortly after that I woke up by the sound of her crying I got super worried and asked her what was up but she replied really don't you know it's always about you I really had no idea what was going on until she finally admitted. She was angry and mad because she didn't have an orgasm the second time I got super confused but still felt. Understanding as I had experienced an orgasm whereas she didn't during the second round I tried to comfort her but she didn't want to engage in any sort of conversation and I fell asleep shortly after that didn't stop here. She woke me up this time by throwing a glass of water on my face as I was sleeping and ran to the other room where she locked herself and started crying more. Shocked by her reaction and really didn't know what to do the next day she got back to her normal cheery self when I tried several times you everything? ok over there. Okay, the next day she got back to a normal cherry self when I tried several times to bring back. What happened she seemed to be.
  • [52:17] Mike: I'm fine. Yeah.
  • [52:25] Keith: Denial she seemed she seemed to be in denial and managed to divert the conversation and avoid the topic I'm really puzzled by her reaction as she has been mad a few times has happened before but it never got this far really at a loss about what to do and how I should approach this topic with her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated so this actually 4000 up votes.
  • [52:42] Mike: It's kind of hot. Really.
  • [52:44] Keith: And you know the general tone was it started with you need to take better care of your girlfriend and then a bunch of people pointed out. Well what if the situation was reversed and the guy didn't have an orgasm but that he like pet petulantly storms around the house and. Throws water at his girlfriend did like is is crying and like emotionally abusing him like yes, so look. But the thing I wanted to bring up here is um, what is the right expectation for women. In sexual situations of a partner of 1 to 2 years for how often they should be having an orgasm.
  • [53:26] Mike: Oh I don't know if there's a specific right? and percentage of the time I think it could be as high as 100% of the time and that would be reasonable. Ah so yeah I mean I think that's right, It's just that like the yeah reversing The genders is a useful ah trick here to to see how unreasonable this is. Um, I don't yeah I mean like it's It's like a lot of this is Media. It's a little hard to tell from the question but I mean a lot of some of this is going to be mediated by the the guy's lessened interest as we've discussed last couple weeks after he nuts. So It's like sort of there is something kind of. Biological and difficult there for the guy to kind of get through ah to increase his interest level. But I mean there's a better way for her to deal with that than to stomp around and throw water in his face and stuff right.
  • [54:04] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [54:13] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean this whole thing is just vaguely preposterous. You think a hundred percent okay that's interesting I think it's reasonable for them to expect that 100% of the time. But.
  • [54:21] Mike: I Think it could be as high as a hundred. Yeah.
  • [54:33] Mike: I've never had a partner where it was in fact, a hundred percent I mean yeah, it just I didn't want to like exclude that that's all I think a normal a normal expectation is 50 is something like between one third to 2 thirds or something is kind of normal.
  • [54:36] Keith: Right? right? right? right? Yeah I mean. It look it depends on the woman. How much agency she takes in causing her own orgasms. We know that Allie for example, takes quite little and and requires or prefers some sort of thing from her man prefers some sort of.
  • [54:58] Mike: Requires.
  • [55:01] Keith: Ah, assistance from her man that ah he may or may not be as enthusiastic to perform after he himself is orgasmed. But yeah I mean I think I think that in sexual encounters men orgasm to something that rounds to 100% of the time.
  • [55:18] Mike: Sure.
  • [55:19] Keith: You know, maybe it's ninety ninety five percent or whatever and women even ones that are very comfortable with their bodies and and know what it takes to reach orgasm I think there's some variance in their ability to reach that in a given day. Um, and so I think that women sometimes won't be able to. Comfortably get themselves to orgasm and in those situations I'm not sure how much of the blame falls on the man I mean if if it's one of those days then what can the man be expected to do now maybe in this case with this man. Ah, she was. You know, primed and ready and perfectly able and he was neglectful. But yeah I don't think that a 100 % ratio is is a typical aspect is a typical reality for most couples.
  • [56:12] Mike: Yeah I mean I think that like that yeah the reality of this the reality of this is usually this is mediated by either the woman just thinking like okay I realize and I believe that women can almost always get there. But something like a vibrator. There're things they can do like if they're masturbating like but I think typically like it's you know their desire for it isn't that high or like there's just some sort of yeah, it's just going to take a long time. Not that compelling to them that day. Whatever and I think that's usually the mediating influence. Um I think my.
  • [56:29] Keith: Um, sure.
  • [56:48] Mike: General frame of reference here is that it's pretty unusual for the mediating influence I know you read things online I Just think it's a little unusual for the mediating influence to be the guy just being like no I don't want to give you one I don't want you to have one like I I think that.
  • [56:57] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [57:00] Mike: I think I think it's more more common for the guy and to not understand that she's not having one because of like the various messaging from porn or from her faking orgasms or whatever like they're you know, not being clear lack of communication. So the guy thinks she already had 1 or maybe he doesn't really understand it and like as you know like my general belief here is there's like a widespread.
  • [57:03] Keith: Um, yes oh.
  • [57:19] Mike: Look everybody knows there's widespread difficulty understanding the mechanics and experience of a female orgasm. Um, but ah like but like yeah, it just it just makes the situation difficult for the guy. But I think it's rare that a guy would like outside of like some kind of like. Denial play or something. It's rare for the guy to actually be like no I want to prevent you from having 1.
  • [57:35] Keith: Right? Yeah I think I think most male partners prefer their female partners to orgasm like it makes them feel manly and it's an ego thing and it's nice to make your partner feel good.
  • [57:43] Mike: Yes, although I mean there's a counter there's yeah, there's a counter fairly sorry about that. There's a countervailing thing there that that I just thought of and had I had to say it right now right now. Um, which is I think that.
  • [57:53] Keith: Go ahead.
  • [57:57] Keith: Typical male.
  • [58:02] Mike: Yeah I know I think that there's a large percentage of guys. Especially with these things around like you know women maybe faking. Maybe maybe I like I actually think that most most of what people call faking in quotes by a woman is not her faking. It's confusion I think that women often have confusion about this and.
  • [58:17] Keith: Um, me.
  • [58:20] Mike: Think they're having an orgasm and so it's not even like there's no like will to fake or anything. It's it's It's actually more complex than that but hang on that would be yeah but I mean like a woman who thinks that like oh this really pleasant feeling I have is an orgasm and it isn't um.
  • [58:25] Keith: They could be bored and wanting the situation to end but go On. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
  • [58:37] Mike: Because there can be different feelings obviously but but I think that like the like. So I mean yeah, like like in the sense of guys like like wanting they they want their partner their partner to experience pleasure like you said, but I think that they like that you you can freely get sort of in this in this. This trap where they don't understand. Yeah, they don't understand what's going on on the on the on in the other person's head and um, yeah, they basically been trained to get to assume that the other person is having orgasms when they're not basically.
  • [59:09] Keith: Yeah I think that's right, there's more to say here but we are unfortunately out of time. We both have meetings so that is a wrap on episode 54 of your mileage may vary thanks to Mike for his valuable time and thanks to you listeners for your valuable time you can find us. At Ymmvpod on Twitter or you can-mail us at http://ymmvpod at http://gmail.comwe'llcatchyounexttime.