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Episode 55: Do Men Want A "Performance" From Women In Bed? Squirting Facts And Theories, Fixing Hygiene Issues

Team YMMV | 2-24-2022 | 1:02:46

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Men enjoy watching women "perform" so much during sex that we wonder whether they know that women are in fact just "performing". And, maybe women do what they do because it helps enhance the mood for them. Alternately, some women claim they have no control over behaviors such as screaming during sex. Are they telling the truth? What is "control" anyway?

When is the best time to tell a partner about a hygiene issue in a relationship?

And, we debate again the whole question of "squirting": What is it? Why do some men seem to so love it?

To take a look at the picture discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/55/imperfections

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/55/noise

https://ymmv.me/55/odor

https://ymmv.me/55/squirting

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:03] Mike: his, his his facial expression was like
  • [0:12] Mike: joy, happiness chills facial expression was like some mixture of horror and like your pissing on my couch.
  • [0:15] Keith: Right? Yeah. I got this from crate and barrel.
  • [0:16] Keith: Mm hmm
  • [0:22] Keith: mm hmm.
  • [0:30] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with a proprietary tasty blend of analysis and humor.
  • [0:42] Keith: We have a fun collection of topics to cover today, including an overly noisy wife and unacceptable odor and some confusion about peeing versus squirting. I'm keith. My co host is mike. Hi mike.
  • [0:46] Mike: Hey keith, I'm worried about the peeing versus squirting topic. I'm gonna get yelled at again.
  • [0:49] Keith: Yeah. Something for everybody to look forward to.
  • [1:00] Keith: And now for everyone's least favorite part of podcasting, please rate and review the show. Tell your friends about us, insist to your friends that they listen to us, threaten their families, whatever it takes. We're a team here.
  • [1:10] Keith: And if you have any feedback for the show, we famously pay $10 for any feedback we receive at Y. M. M. V. Pod on twitter or y. Mm the pod at gmail dot com.
  • [1:16] Keith: Incidentally, those two places are also open for questions you'd like us to answer on the show.
  • [1:20] Keith: Alright enough of that medicine. Let's get started.
  • [1:21] Keith: So
  • [1:23] Keith: a friend of mine
  • [1:24] Keith: expressed
  • [1:30] Keith: something in relation to our last show that I just wanted to briefly address. Do you remember our
  • [1:36] Keith: conversation about the husband masturbating to photos of his wife.
  • [1:37] Mike: Yes, this was the boss. Key
  • [1:39] Keith: husband. Right?
  • [1:42] Keith: My friend expressed with
  • [1:49] Keith: a surprising amount of certainty that the husband must have been masturbating to older pictures of his wife.
  • [1:52] Keith: So pictures of his wife from from when she was younger
  • [1:56] Keith: and I thought that was a preposterous
  • [2:01] Keith: theory and I just wanted to run that by you to see if you also thought that was preposterous.
  • [2:04] Mike: What I like about it. Is that like
  • [2:11] Mike: what I like about it is that he's not here. It's it's, it's still not going to be something that the woman wants to hear, right? It's like,
  • [2:26] Mike: It's like he's just found a different angle to make it pretty brutal for it's like, Okay, so instead of instead of him running away from the fact that he was watching some random porn now. It's like, oh, remember 10 years ago when you were hot. Yeah, that's what I beat off to
  • [2:29] Keith: write. I, I pointed out to him that it was
  • [2:32] Keith: her giddiness and excitement about
  • [2:35] Keith: quote unquote catching him masturbating to photos of her
  • [2:37] Keith: would not be
  • [2:55] Keith: uh, it wouldn't be that that much if it was photos of her from when she was much younger. So yeah, I just don't feel that as a possible thing. I don't think this is a thing that men would do generally. I mean I'd be interested in feedback from listeners on this. But like,
  • [2:56] Mike: I mean,
  • [3:02] Mike: I think that like, I think the male drive is very present based meaning
  • [3:05] Mike: like yeah, I guess you could watch like there are people that like vintage porn,
  • [3:08] Mike: you know, like Yeah, I mean it's kind of interesting the notion if you watch like,
  • [3:27] Mike: you know, they have like old like sort of stag films, various ones you can find online that are from maybe the fifties and sixties and it's interesting to think like these women are all dead sort of interesting. Um, but it's not like, I think that I think the male drive is very present focused for various sort of obvious reasons. And so because of that, I think like
  • [3:31] Mike: I think that like the sort of sadness associated with like
  • [3:38] Mike: old pictures or videos of somebody when they were more attractive would kind of not go along well with masturbation, which is,
  • [3:40] Mike: you know, a joyful habit.
  • [3:50] Keith: Yeah. I've actually wondered this a bit myself when I see a picture. So this is a really common thing on, on Reddit. People will post pictures of their grandmother from when they were much younger
  • [3:56] Keith: or post pictures that of people who are much younger
  • [3:57] Keith: and
  • [3:59] Keith: I don't find them
  • [4:03] Keith: knowing that that person is now old
  • [4:10] Keith: actually takes a little bit away from the photos eligibility as masturbation material for me.
  • [4:13] Mike: I agree. I recently saw
  • [4:24] Mike: a picture that a man posted of his wife, He said, here's my wife and it was a picture of a bag of ashes. That was, this is real actually. He was trying to have a good sense of humor. I think that she had been dead for a while.
  • [4:27] Mike: That also I was not able to masturbate to
  • [4:30] Keith: Yeah, that's probably a good thing.
  • [4:41] Keith: But I mean seriously though, like, I don't think it makes sense. Like why should I care what the age of the person is now? It's not like it's, it's just a fantasy. It's never gonna happen anyway.
  • [4:45] Keith: But for some reason my brain, for some reason my brain shuts it down.
  • [4:49] Mike: That's right. Intellectually. It shouldn't matter. But like it's yeah, I mean like it just
  • [4:52] Mike: Yeah, I mean, there's various content like that, you know, I mean,
  • [4:58] Mike: Yeah, like even even, I mean there was, there's there there are still circulating videos from,
  • [5:03] Mike: I'm going to forget her name, but the woman who was on I deep throat dot com,
  • [5:17] Mike: I can't remember the name first name, but but it's probably fake first name anyway. But like those are from maybe the year 2000 2001 and like they're compelling. They're kind of grainy now. I mean like there's that's a problem. But also like it really, it's just kind of like, oh, you know, this is
  • [5:22] Mike: it's too long ago. It's not going, I don't know why her name is heather.
  • [5:33] Keith: Well, I'll have to investigate that later, but as just because it's so old. I don't think, you know, the heather is probably now in her fifties, right? Who knows? Yeah, exactly.
  • [5:41] Keith: Okay. Well, speaking of idiosyncratic things that make masturbating to a photo difficult.
  • [5:44] Keith: I have a photo that I sent you.
  • [5:48] Keith: Yes, I would like to discuss this. It is
  • [5:53] Keith: um a proposed is something we've discussed a few times on the show.
  • [6:01] Keith: Um you can, you can open it now to our listeners. You should, you should open now and take a look if if you are near a computer, the
  • [6:16] Mike: photo will be in the show notes. Yeah, we can't actually like make the thumbnail for this episode, the photo or whatever because we'll get banned even more. They'll ban us harder for for the the truth we speak. But I will open it now and other people should open it as well. Here we go.
  • [6:17] Keith: Okay, so
  • [6:18] Mike: it's
  • [6:21] Keith: fairly high res has, has it downloaded for you?
  • [6:27] Mike: Oh yeah that it came up quickly. I have my fiber optic line just for this kind of situation. Should I zoom in because oh my Lord,
  • [6:34] Keith: can you find what it is about this photo that bothers me?
  • [6:39] Mike: That bothers you. I mean can I say what is great about it first? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Why don't you describe?
  • [6:48] Mike: I like, oh I'm not sure. I can just I mean she she probably probably has breast implants. I mean, so what is it? It's a woman with
  • [6:51] Mike: I guess you call those pigtails that she's pulling to either side.
  • [6:54] Mike: Very thin white
  • [6:59] Mike: woman, she has large breasts. She has her shirt sort of pulled up and then no,
  • [7:01] Mike: below that there's no clothing at all.
  • [7:05] Keith: And she has a nice, she has a nice weight waist to hip ratio
  • [7:09] Mike: Yeah, she has a choker around her neck. She has a very
  • [7:10] Mike: um
  • [7:19] Mike: kind of lightly hairy, very lightly hairy. Landy script landing strip. But then she's um shaved her down below that.
  • [7:20] Mike: Um
  • [7:32] Mike: And so yeah, I mean like things that are nice or like the way she's standing, I'm not sure if this is like her natural pose or if she's sort of thrusting her hips forward a little bit to make sure that her vulva is as obvious as it is. Her chest is sort of
  • [7:36] Mike: full. But I mean, I think they're probably implants, but like it
  • [7:40] Mike: they're almost certainly implants. A woman would be like, oh, this is obviously implants. But like, man, like, I
  • [7:43] Keith: don't know. They would be exceptional for her size.
  • [7:45] Mike: Yeah. And there's sort of like
  • [7:53] Mike: the nipples look kind of thrust forward in a way that's unnatural. No visible scars though.
  • [7:56] Mike: Well, it could be the yeah, I mean, the various
  • [7:58] Keith: possible she could have photoshopped, it could be the angle, who knows? But
  • [8:04] Mike: there's a line kind of going across her chest. But I assume that's just a shadow. So let's ignore. I'm like, I am looking for the imperfection for
  • [8:10] Keith: you. Shadow for one of the pigtails, your protection. Yet
  • [8:13] Mike: there is a white dot on her labia.
  • [8:22] Mike: Yes, I'm going to go with Libya, Libya um mine or um one of them there. And I and so it's not clear exactly what that is.
  • [8:25] Keith: It's clear to me what it is. I know what it is.
  • [8:30] Mike: Oh, let's hear it. Is she, does she have the herb or toilet paper?
  • [8:31] Mike: Oh my goodness.
  • [8:33] Mike: You're certain
  • [8:38] Keith: I am fairly certain I would, I would describe a 85% chance
  • [8:45] Keith: to that being toilet paper. This is a fairly high resolution photo. I don't know what kind of camera was taken here, but
  • [8:50] Keith: notice you can see her sort of peach fuzz around her belly button.
  • [8:51] Keith: Um,
  • [8:55] Keith: but yes, I believe that is a fleck of toilet paper.
  • [9:00] Mike: I don't love her belly button looks either when you zoom in. It's strange. And I will say this. I mean to you
  • [9:04] Mike: to your I think general point here like when I zoomed in,
  • [9:06] Mike: uh
  • [9:11] Mike: that did catch my eye immediately. And I wonder actually, now that I think about it, I wonder if that's like a male,
  • [9:18] Mike: there's some benefit to a man being able to detect some sort of potential disease around that area of a woman's body. So we like,
  • [9:26] Mike: yeah. Because I did, I did see it very quickly. It's it's it's it's white. So it kind of shows up. But it's yeah,
  • [9:26] Mike: mm
  • [9:27] Keith: hmm.
  • [9:34] Keith: Does that lower your attractive, your level of attraction to her.
  • [9:39] Mike: If I know it's not some kind of um
  • [9:47] Mike: disease. Yeah. Then then, no, because it's not. And also when you zoom out, it's completely invisible. Which makes me wonder whether,
  • [9:48] Mike: I mean it could this could
  • [9:51] Mike: it's so small that this could actually just be like a
  • [9:57] Mike: piece of cotton fuzz or something like that as opposed to that. Um
  • [10:01] Mike: So I assume that for you, it does, it does lower your attractiveness.
  • [10:06] Keith: Well, I mean I have a history of being bothered by
  • [10:09] Keith: flecks of toilet paper being stuck on Libya
  • [10:21] Keith: and so I'm a little sensitive to this and intellectually in a way that most folks probably aren't. But yeah, I don't like that. She didn't notice it herself
  • [10:26] Keith: or else presumably she would have taken another picture, picked it off and taken another picture.
  • [10:39] Keith: That's assuming that this is the 85% case where this is actually toilet paper. Let me ask you this. I mean, would you prefer it if women that you were going to interact with in this way, if they used the days,
  • [10:41] Mike: I just don't,
  • [10:44] Keith: I don't think,
  • [10:51] Keith: I mean, gosh, I'm sure my asshole often has flecks of toilet paper just hanging around there,
  • [10:52] Keith: but
  • [10:54] Keith: I don't
  • [10:55] Keith: put up
  • [10:59] Keith: 50 megapixel images of myself on reddit
  • [11:03] Keith: with my asshole in full view. And so yeah, I don't,
  • [11:05] Keith: I don't understand
  • [11:09] Keith: this woman's process that led to this occurring.
  • [11:10] Mike: Yeah,
  • [11:16] Mike: I'm looking by the way at her. Well, yeah, I mean, well, but it's so small that I'm not sure. Yeah, I hear you,
  • [11:26] Mike: maybe she used a brand that was not very expensive that disintegrated in such a way that she couldn't it was just yeah she would have had to take a shower and very carefully clean it out,
  • [11:31] Mike: get rid of it all. This is definitely these are definitely breast implants. I wonder if they went in through her navel.
  • [11:37] Mike: I wonder if that's why her navel is just sort of recessed and deep looking and but yeah there's just no I mean if you look at like the
  • [11:44] Mike: below her brother area below her breast it just can't, there's no way that that's it just doesn't
  • [11:48] Mike: it's these things are levitating in a way that's not really possible.
  • [11:49] Mike: Yeah
  • [11:54] Keith: this image really is remarkably high resolution. Like if you look at her,
  • [11:58] Keith: well the viewers right breast, her left breast
  • [12:01] Keith: You can see three
  • [12:07] Keith: Darker hairs sort of in the 3:00 - 5:00 position.
  • [12:08] Keith: You see this?
  • [12:10] Mike: Yeah I do.
  • [12:12] Mike: What is that? Is that a problem for you?
  • [12:18] Keith: No look okay I'm being ridiculous here. This is like the sort of trope that you see
  • [12:29] Keith: on various comment threads where you know somebody's like oh I don't like her toenails or I don't like I don't like this. I mean this is a very attractive woman. She's you know exquisite in many ways
  • [12:32] Keith: and I'm sort of nitpicking here but
  • [12:42] Keith: this is sort of what I do when I look at pictures like this. I told you that I have sort of like this obsession with with skin and imperfections and skin. And so yeah, I just I noticed this stuff
  • [12:53] Mike: that's interesting. One thing that I notice is when you zoom in, I I seldom do this essentially. Never when you zoom in on parts of her body, you can pretty easily select parts of her body where you can't tell if it's a man or a woman.
  • [12:55] Mike: Yeah,
  • [12:56] Mike: that's true.
  • [12:59] Mike: Yes. And then it's sort of the attractiveness becomes
  • [13:00] Mike: confusing.
  • [13:03] Keith: She has like a couple
  • [13:06] Keith: black flecks in the peach fuzz below her navel. Alright this is getting bored. Let's put
  • [13:13] Mike: it is. I do but but but on the on the zooming in and not knowing the gender like when I when that happens to me.
  • [13:22] Mike: Yeah when somebody loses their gender in that way. You know when the gender the gender and goes away like I think that men generally and this is actually taboo to say and
  • [13:23] Mike: ah
  • [13:29] Mike: 2022 America. But I think men generally like like gender ring like
  • [13:33] Mike: you know men men appreciate gender ring. Men want to know,
  • [13:38] Mike: oh is that a boy or a girl. And so that's tricky because like society wants to
  • [13:50] Mike: change that. But I don't think women care as much. And so like when I see a body that's not as gender I think to myself, oh this is maybe how how women see the world like they don't see genders as starkly as men do. Um
  • [13:53] Mike: Yeah we've talked about this before in reference baseball picture,
  • [14:00] Keith: right? Yeah. Yeah. Men stare at the crotch and I think the the thought is they're looking for a bulge there.
  • [14:02] Keith: Yes.
  • [14:03] Mike: Yeah.
  • [14:14] Mike: It matters to me a lot. Like I want to understand the gender. And so and so in some ways it bothers me to see a body part and not know the gender because then I'm like, well, ship, what do I do here? Am I am I attracted or not? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be
  • [14:21] Keith: tricked. I've mentioned this before, but you know, I'll match with people on Tinder and
  • [14:28] Keith: it will only be after I match that I discovered that they're trans. And I feel
  • [14:30] Keith: generally sort of,
  • [14:36] Keith: I don't know surprised that my first pass filter didn't notice it.
  • [14:39] Mike: People are getting. Yeah. And then and then what happens is good at it.
  • [14:41] Keith: Well, then I unmatched them.
  • [14:44] Mike: You wanna match them because you're not interested in a transsexual partner.
  • [14:49] Keith: Yeah. I mean, there's some like interesting thought experiments to be had here. Like at what point
  • [14:52] Keith: of the reveal of a penis
  • [14:53] Keith: would you
  • [15:00] Keith: not know about the situation? So if I know about it initially before I even meet them, I'm going to nope out if I,
  • [15:06] Keith: you know, discover it at various points I'm going to know about. But is there a point beyond which would be like, well, here I am.
  • [15:10] Keith: I don't I don't think there is, but I wonder
  • [15:14] Mike: haven't we discussed this though? Like if you're, if you're receiving a blow
  • [15:16] Mike: or a hand job or something, you might not care.
  • [15:17] Mike: Mhm.
  • [15:24] Keith: So I feel like if I knew there was a penis down there, it would affect my ability to get aroused.
  • [15:27] Mike: Yeah, that's probably right.
  • [15:29] Mike: Yeah.
  • [15:37] Keith: I mean conceptually like whatever, like if my body reacts in the way that makes things feel good, I'm here for it. But I just don't think it would,
  • [15:44] Keith: I mean, knowing that somebody knowing that a picture is somebody who's older is enough to throw me off. It doesn't doesn't take much.
  • [15:49] Mike: Yeah, I mean this is the thing though, is that like we we should move on. But but I mean this is the thing is for for men, they
  • [15:56] Mike: men really care a lot about whether they can impregnate the person in question. And I think that has to do with like
  • [16:10] Mike: there's an age range where you can impregnate them. And so men are much more interested in sort of fertile women, which means they can't be too young. They can't be too old. There's fertility markers of all kinds like looking healthy and so forth.
  • [16:17] Mike: Yeah. And then, and then of course the one that I yes, the most obvious one is like, yeah. And and like when you think about it, it's like,
  • [16:25] Mike: yeah, I mean that's just what men are doing, Like we have these subconscious filters that ultimately amount to, is this an impregnable person. And so
  • [16:34] Mike: yeah, I mean it makes life confusing for a man. Like deep down like a very deep down confusing for a man when you start to erase that stuff and say, oh well
  • [16:39] Mike: genders don't matter or sex and gender are separate and so forth. Like, well, who am I supposed to impregnate? It's
  • [16:41] Keith: confusing, right?
  • [16:42] Mike: It's tricky.
  • [16:50] Keith: Yeah, well I'll keep fighting the fight and hope I don't misidentify.
  • [16:51] Keith: Okay.
  • [16:57] Keith: This person on reddit says my wife is noisy and I'm not sure whether to do anything about it.
  • [17:07] Keith: We've covered this topic before, but I think there's a slightly new angle here. This person says my wife and I have a great relationship the usual ups and downs, but I don't have any real complaints.
  • [17:12] Keith: And what I came here discuss isn't really a an issue, but I do trust the wisdom in the sub. So here I am,
  • [17:17] Keith: my wife is very vocal during sex and at times it has me a little paranoid of
  • [17:38] Keith: or aware of others hearing us, especially when we have house guests are staying with friends or relatives when we're at home alone or at a hotel. It's not an issue, although we have had comments and hotels before. But other times I just wonder whether it's worth worrying about or being aware of. We've talked about it and she says she gets lost in the moment at times and she isn't aware that the loudness is happening, which is good obviously,
  • [17:41] Keith: but more to the point, she says this is just how she is
  • [17:43] Keith: and she isn't interested in trying to be different.
  • [17:48] Keith: It's natural and how she expresses herself. Should I drop it?
  • [17:49] Keith: So this
  • [17:54] Keith: man is claiming that his wife claims
  • [17:55] Keith: that
  • [18:00] Keith: she can't control her noisy nous. Like she's
  • [18:06] Keith: Yeah, it implies that there's like not a performative aspect at all to it. In fact she can't even control it.
  • [18:09] Keith: How do you how do you
  • [18:10] Keith: respond to that?
  • [18:12] Mike: Well, I mean,
  • [18:21] Mike: if it was a man, if you were a man, if you were a man, in other words, if this, if you if you flip the genders here, I think that almost anyone would, everyone would be skeptical.
  • [18:24] Mike: I think that's right. They say, look, look like
  • [18:28] Mike: there's so much evidence that men can control this, like,
  • [18:29] Mike: you know?
  • [18:36] Mike: Yeah, I mean, and and really like, I mean, I guess my primary exposure, my only real exposure to mail mail
  • [18:41] Mike: sexual activity is via porn and talking to other people. But like, I just don't think I've ever encountered, like
  • [18:45] Mike: I think I've ever encountered a situation where the screaming man.
  • [18:48] Mike: Yeah. And and and in fact like on the
  • [18:50] Mike: uh,
  • [19:07] Mike: whatever the female oriented porn suburb that I follow, like they often are looking for men that mon, which is not my cup of tea necessarily, although like some amount of sound like indicates he's enjoying it, but like it's I want it pretty limited anyway. So there's that. So then it's like, okay, so if your basic
  • [19:17] Mike: if you're so my baseline assumption is that like, men and women are fairly similar in most ways. So it's like, well, okay, so I so it's a little hard for me to believe that they can't control it.
  • [19:19] Mike: Um
  • [19:22] Mike: Yeah, and I think that
  • [19:25] Mike: again, from like porn,
  • [19:31] Mike: the let's see from porn, the
  • [19:42] Mike: the more moaning happens, I think you can pretty much linearly. There's a linear relationship between that and sort of like how porn star ish the porn is and how kind of performative it is sure that being said,
  • [19:45] Mike: like I, you know, have some anecdotal
  • [19:48] Mike: from people telling me, oh no, no, no. I knew this woman who
  • [19:51] Mike: Yeah, like I had this extreme
  • [19:57] Mike: vocal response and claimed it was involuntary and so I've heard this kind of story before, but he used me with some doubt.
  • [20:05] Keith: Right, okay, So I was I was hoping you would go in the direction of doubting this woman's
  • [20:06] Keith: claim.
  • [20:08] Keith: I
  • [20:16] Keith: Also doubt her claim, but I'm not sure on what level I doubt it. So level one would be,
  • [20:20] Keith: She's just lying and she's performing for some reason. Level two is
  • [20:23] Keith: she's subconsciously
  • [20:26] Keith: decided that she must be loud
  • [20:29] Keith: and is sort of
  • [20:36] Keith: Yeah, like now she has taken the position where like she, you know, if you put a gun to her head, she would actually say she has to be loud
  • [20:37] Keith: even though
  • [20:39] Keith: she doesn't really,
  • [20:40] Keith: and I'm not sure
  • [20:42] Keith: which of those is going on here.
  • [20:48] Mike: Well, I mean, I think like one thing to consider is that like, one thing that gives me a doubt about these kinds of stories
  • [20:50] Mike: and it goes with like the sort of
  • [20:52] Mike: complicated or
  • [20:55] Mike: confusing orgasm stories you hear as well from women
  • [21:00] Mike: is that like, I think that in order to enjoy sex for a man, like
  • [21:02] Mike: the plot of sex is pretty
  • [21:04] Mike: standardized and
  • [21:06] Mike: like it has to be
  • [21:10] Mike: evolutionarily like, it would be, I'm not sure humans would exist
  • [21:13] Mike: in their present form if men
  • [21:22] Mike: had to have some really complicated thing to happen in order to impregnate a woman. Like it just, it needs to be a simple, straightforward script for women. That's not the case. And many, many, many women report like,
  • [21:27] Mike: well, look, I mean, you know, the standard ratio of women who even have orgasms during sex is
  • [21:31] Mike: 1/2 or a third of the time, something like that, maybe
  • [21:37] Mike: many women never have orgasms during sex or never have orgasms at all. And so there's some kind of other mind space, they have to get into
  • [21:45] Mike: some women, many women in order to really enjoy it. And I could see that going along with this kind of stuff like you basically have to like kind of let go
  • [21:52] Mike: on some kind of like relatively extreme way that a man wouldn't have to, and so it's not that they like, could they lie there and just not do that. Yes,
  • [21:56] Mike: but like if they want to enjoy it, they need to like
  • [22:01] Mike: almost, yeah, they need to do something more profound in a way that a man doesn't, I'm trying to think like,
  • [22:03] Mike: like when men weight lift
  • [22:06] Mike: or are there activities that men do that? Like kind of,
  • [22:11] Mike: do you require some kind of vocalization or the vocal vocalization really changes your ability to
  • [22:12] Mike: ah
  • [22:17] Mike: fully accomplish your objective. I mean, weightlifting is an obvious one.
  • [22:27] Keith: I know in tennis, a lot of players are encouraged to grunt as they hit the ball. It sort of encourages them to follow through properly, I think.
  • [22:28] Mike: Yeah.
  • [22:34] Mike: Uh there I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of right now and so it could be something like that. It's like, it's like a way to
  • [22:43] Mike: get yourself into the mind space where you're more likely to enjoy it. And so do they have Yeah, but I'm with you on the notion of like, oh, she can't not do it, but I could see her saying I can't
  • [22:47] Mike: enjoy it in the same way unless I do this that I could buy.
  • [22:50] Mike: Like, that's not insane. To me,
  • [22:57] Keith: it's such an imposition on everybody, not just the man, but everyone around them, like,
  • [23:01] Keith: wouldn't she be better off if
  • [23:10] Keith: maybe not, I mean if she's decided that the thing that makes sex interesting for her is
  • [23:18] Keith: exclaiming in a certain way how great sex is going in in the moment then she might not be able to shake free of that shackle.
  • [23:21] Mike: I mean let me ask you this. Which which would you prefer?
  • [23:23] Mike: A partner who
  • [23:24] Mike: um
  • [23:29] Mike: had some sort of, it doesn't have to be this exact behavior but basically has to get lost in the moment
  • [23:31] Mike: in some way. In other words like she's
  • [23:37] Mike: yeah she she has to get into some kind of head space. It's a little different. It's a little maybe weird off putting whatever. It's not like
  • [23:42] Mike: as straightforward as the guy would be or maybe some women would be. That's on the one side
  • [23:50] Mike: on the other side is a woman who just always uses a vibrator while you're doing P. I. V. Sex. And it works because it's a vibrator. Like which would you pick?
  • [23:57] Keith: Right? She's so intellectually aware of like what it is that makes her have orgasms that she really would just prefer the vibrator because it's the best
  • [23:59] Mike: or I think most women would.
  • [24:02] Keith: Yeah I think so too. But
  • [24:06] Keith: yeah I mean I think the alternative you're presenting is someone who
  • [24:11] Keith: sort of twists herself up into some sort of pretzel too
  • [24:14] Keith: enjoy sex.
  • [24:17] Mike: Yeah because and the reason is part of my evidence for that is like
  • [24:32] Mike: when you when when we've talked to when you read about women regarding their masturbation habits like watching porn again like you know it's like women's masturbation habits resemble those of men. Yeah, it doesn't last that
  • [24:35] Keith: task that Yeah.
  • [24:45] Mike: Yeah. And uh I mean, Yeah, and so and and it's it's very simple. Like they just go through the straightforward routine and so it's like they're doing something different when they're with a man and there's a reason they're doing that
  • [24:48] Mike: and it has to do with like,
  • [24:53] Mike: they're trying to get lost in the moment or enjoy it more differently or something like that anyway, Which would you pick
  • [24:57] Keith: Before? I answer that I have dated two people
  • [24:59] Keith: that
  • [25:01] Keith: across their eyes during sex
  • [25:05] Keith: and claimed that they had no control over it
  • [25:06] Keith: and
  • [25:12] Keith: I expressed some incredulity more to the first person that the second
  • [25:14] Mike: wait, Why?
  • [25:18] Keith: Because I'd seen it before with the sound, I was like, oh, this again,
  • [25:25] Mike: I've done you before, haven't I? But but hang on. So, so when would they cross? At what point?
  • [25:26] Keith: Uh,
  • [25:31] Keith: I don't remember exactly. I find
  • [25:36] Keith: certain aspects of eye contact, uncomfortable with
  • [25:43] Keith: sexual partners. And so I don't know anything that lowers the intimacy.
  • [25:45] Keith: I
  • [25:56] Keith: yeah, I'm not sure if even if I had to, if I could remember whether it was like, as soon as the clothes came off for like after penetration started or sometime,
  • [26:00] Keith: you know, close to orgasm. I just don't remember.
  • [26:07] Mike: Yeah. I mean, the reason I ask is that I could see a man, I mean I could see myself having something like that happened during a particularly
  • [26:14] Mike: powerful nut. I could see I mean not I've not as far as I know, I don't have that specific thing happened. But I could imagine it like
  • [26:16] Mike: you're basically like
  • [26:18] Mike: flooding your body with some sort of drug.
  • [26:22] Keith: Sure. Yeah. For both of these women it was
  • [26:23] Keith: was pre orgasm
  • [26:24] Keith: also like
  • [26:32] Keith: during and maybe a little bit post. Like it would take like a minute to reset. I don't remember exactly but I do remember that this was happening
  • [26:35] Keith: pre and so the reason I brought this up is
  • [26:40] Keith: yeah, you know the woman in this reddit post is
  • [26:42] Keith: perhaps
  • [26:53] Keith: so used to moaning and groaning and screaming during sex that she now requires it to enjoy it. That's one manifestation of,
  • [27:00] Keith: you know, an elaborate mental exercise going on to help women get into the moment and you know, you know, for
  • [27:04] Keith: other people, maybe it's crossing their eyes and for others. Yeah, maybe there are some other things.
  • [27:14] Mike: So I don't want to get back. I want to have you answered that question about which we would you would prefer. But I mean, do you like I mean part of what's going on here also surely is the fact that like in most cases the man is the
  • [27:17] Mike: more active partner and so like
  • [27:21] Mike: as a woman, you have the privilege to be able to like have all these kind of wacky behaviors.
  • [27:23] Mike: But like aren't look I mean
  • [27:26] Mike: when I say wacky, all I mean is it's like they're not,
  • [27:32] Mike: I mean, order for the act to complete whether you're a man or a woman, like there's a certain, I mean,
  • [27:39] Mike: you know, there's a certain number of strokes that your penis needs to have for a woman that there's some equivalent, like there clint needs to
  • [27:48] Mike: be vibrated a certain number of minutes or seconds or whatever. There's some, there's some equivalent, like there's something that has to happen in order to get you over the edge and these behaviors the woman is doing or not, like
  • [27:52] Mike: in a classical sense, like moving in that direction. They're kind of like
  • [28:01] Mike: tangential or, you know? Yeah, Well they're just, they're just, yeah, they're just not like going that direction. And so it's like, maybe, look, I mean, maybe
  • [28:04] Mike: maybe like if you were being pegged
  • [28:06] Mike: or you were
  • [28:11] Mike: like, if you were somehow, yeah, if you were somehow the passive partner, like if you were
  • [28:19] Mike: restrained so you really couldn't do anything in the other person or maybe like, you know, actually, now that I think about it, like when I've watched, there's this woman who posts
  • [28:22] Mike: a lot
  • [28:29] Mike: on on the homemade xxX subreddit of milking table. I mean just again and again and again, she just,
  • [28:37] Mike: and so you don't, she doesn't like up the man, so you're sort of under the table with her, but
  • [28:40] Mike: the man does sound make a lot of sound,
  • [28:56] Mike: you know, like maybe he's just, I've always sort of assumed he was like letting her know where he was in the process, you know, like I'll knock twice when I'm in a nut or something, but maybe that's not right. Maybe like when the man is more passive, like he's more likely to make noise and that sort of could be, I don't know,
  • [29:15] Keith: That reminds me, I I saw a post yesterday or two days ago talking about calories per minute, uh burned during sex. And for men, it's like 60 or 70% higher than women. I mean that follows like the man as the man is typically more active. But yeah, this notion that
  • [29:21] Keith: the less active partner needs to almost fill the void with some sort of
  • [29:26] Keith: some sort of unusual behavior is is an interesting thought. I hadn't
  • [29:28] Keith: considered that before.
  • [29:31] Mike: Um I'm not sure. Yeah.
  • [29:43] Keith: Well, yeah, you asked, which would I prefer, would I prefer someone who doesn't have some sort of seemingly vestigial but possibly important
  • [29:57] Keith: uh accessory act that they do during sex or what I prefer, someone who is just so formulated is so aware of what they need to do to orgasm and focused on it.
  • [30:01] Keith: Yeah, I'm not sure. I think it depends like I think with the
  • [30:03] Keith: occasional or
  • [30:04] Keith: okay,
  • [30:06] Keith: the short term partner
  • [30:12] Keith: having them do something unusual might be kind of an ego stroke, right? Like it's,
  • [30:13] Keith: oh, they're really
  • [30:16] Keith: enjoying this or they're really caught up in this moment
  • [30:18] Keith: and
  • [30:22] Keith: yeah, that could be good. But with a long term partner,
  • [30:24] Keith: I think my
  • [30:27] Keith: preference starts moving toward
  • [30:31] Keith: really wanting to be sure that their orgasm ng, like that's
  • [30:34] Keith: more important to me than
  • [30:35] Keith: some sort of,
  • [30:37] Keith: I don't know, performative
  • [30:39] Keith: thing going on.
  • [30:48] Mike: Yeah, I think I feel the opposite way. I think that I think will not, maybe I'm not sure how it feels, but in the short term, I think in the short term partner, my answer would be something like, I don't care
  • [30:50] Mike: because it just doesn't like,
  • [30:52] Mike: maybe, maybe I think the organism,
  • [30:58] Mike: well, I mean, maybe I'd agree with you that like having some interesting behavior is more fun, but like generally like, I think that like
  • [31:00] Mike: having some,
  • [31:20] Mike: I don't know, like I think that men might be programmed to want the woman to have some sort of strange behavior and, and I i it's something that I thought of telling and I will tell her now to ali because I know she's listening to me right now and that's our occasional guest Ali, um, like, yeah, I mean like she describes very dryly
  • [31:27] Mike: and precisely the set of things that need to happen for orgasm during sex or masturbation and like that
  • [31:28] Mike: isn't
  • [31:33] Mike: what whenever she does that like it's interesting, but it's also not what I want to hear,
  • [31:35] Mike: What I want to hear is like
  • [31:37] Mike: something more,
  • [31:40] Mike: I wanted to have a routine?
  • [31:49] Mike: Like some kind of like some sort of circus routine that she does. And so I wonder if like maybe that's like what a guy actually wants in this situation is like, Hey, come up with some kind of
  • [31:55] Mike: like, just, you know, watch some porn and just sort of like, you know, come up with some kind of act that you do.
  • [32:01] Keith: Yeah, I wonder if it's actually, it might actually be adaptive to have some sort of,
  • [32:04] Keith: some sort of act. I mean you don't want to get
  • [32:22] Keith: too into it, but yeah, some way to like demonstrate that you're enjoying the experience that it provides an ego stroke for the man could be, Well, it's just like, it's just like how look, I mean there's, there's an analogy here. Like men, men don't typically wear makeup.
  • [32:24] Mike: Men care less
  • [32:29] Mike: generally about their appearance typically like they're more kind of,
  • [32:30] Mike: you know, just
  • [32:35] Mike: here, here, here's who I am. I'm not gonna, you know, whereas women are more likely in general too
  • [32:48] Mike: care more about that wear makeup, very careful with their hair so on and so forth. Like have these sort of things where they care about their parents and that. Well where I'm going with it is like, you know, the man is like in the sex act is like the truck, he's just delivering the materials.
  • [32:53] Mike: He's going to do something really basic and it's like, look what the man wants on some level is for the woman too,
  • [32:55] Mike: You know,
  • [32:57] Mike: you know, put makeup on the sex act,
  • [33:01] Mike: right? Figuratively. Like do something where it's like, oh, you know, this is,
  • [33:02] Mike: you've,
  • [33:04] Mike: you've, you've,
  • [33:10] Mike: you've made this more beautiful, more colorful for me. Whereas the guy, yeah, the guy is in black and white. The woman is in color.
  • [33:20] Mike: And so it's like when, when you hear the woman talk in very dry and as we often do because we get women to be unusually honest on this show, which I think is a test. It's good. It's cool.
  • [33:21] Mike: Yeah.
  • [33:24] Mike: Uh, it's also like
  • [33:26] Mike: less sexy,
  • [33:32] Mike: right? It feels more like I'm talking to a man. It's like, all right. But you're just, you're talking the way I talk and it's like ship. I don't want you to be
  • [33:37] Keith: the man. Well, we strip away the makeup I guess.
  • [33:41] Mike: Yes. We're all going to be a sexual before long.
  • [33:43] Mike: Yeah.
  • [33:45] Keith: All right. Let's move on.
  • [33:48] Keith: Um,
  • [33:49] Keith: okay.
  • [33:50] Keith: Um,
  • [34:06] Keith: yeah, this post has some ambiguity in it and there's a clarifying thing and I'm not sure whether I should say it now or later. I think I will say it after I read it, but just keep in mind that there's something that's ambiguous here. Okay. This person says told her about odor now she ended things.
  • [34:10] Keith: Okay. So I started seeing this polyamorous girl and we got super hot and heavy,
  • [34:14] Keith: insane sexual chemistry sexting every hour late into weeknights.
  • [34:19] Keith: We're super open about sexual preferences being shaved or not outfits to wear our kinks, et cetera.
  • [34:26] Keith: One day while doggy style, I caught a whiff an unpleasant smell. I've smelled this before many times with some girls.
  • [34:34] Keith: Normally I wouldn't say anything and I haven't in the past, but since this was purely sexual and I felt so insanely comfortable with her, I brought it up on our third date
  • [34:41] Keith: very carefully, brought it up and tried saying it as sensibly as I could. I smelled X. Y. Z in this position. Just wanted to share that
  • [34:43] Keith: official reaction didn't seem pleasant.
  • [34:50] Keith: Later on that night, I said sorry and explained. I only said it in case his feedback could help make a tiny change,
  • [34:54] Keith: but we still hooked up chatted, hooked up again the next morning. Things were good.
  • [35:03] Keith: We stopped texting for a couple of days, third day, she says nice things and says she misses me one week goes by, she says she wants to end things and it's because of my expectations
  • [35:04] Keith: and when I asked
  • [35:08] Keith: which expectation she mentioned the sex smell comment on how rude it was.
  • [35:18] Keith: Should I have never said anything. I normally don't and now I feel so bad and guilty, but at the same time, I'm so surprised I want someone to tell me sexual feedback such preferences. I didn't mean to hurt her.
  • [35:21] Keith: Um
  • [35:26] Keith: There is, yeah, so the clarifying thing is that he smelled poop.
  • [35:27] Keith: Um
  • [35:38] Keith: There was a big discussion about whether there was some sort of like foul odor coming from her vagina and she might have been sensitive about that and blah blah blah blah blah. But yeah, the clarifying piece of information is that
  • [35:39] Keith: it was a poop smell.
  • [35:42] Mike: I thought it was going to be that she had no sense of smell.
  • [35:46] Keith: Yes. Good, good call back mike.
  • [35:47] Keith: Yes.
  • [35:49] Keith: Um
  • [36:00] Keith: Okay, I brought this up because I wanted to discuss a couple things. The first is let's say that you are dating somebody and uh you know it's sort of the beginning of the dating
  • [36:06] Keith: and they have some sort of hygiene issue that is easily addressed
  • [36:13] Keith: but sensitive for example, let's say they often have toilet paper clinging to their labia
  • [36:14] Keith: or
  • [36:21] Keith: maybe they are not as good at wiping themselves as ah
  • [36:23] Keith: most folks are
  • [36:26] Keith: or I'm trying to think something else that could be
  • [36:33] Keith: in this constellation of things. But let's start with those two things. How do you communicate that in a way that like is it going to
  • [36:34] Keith: embarrass the person?
  • [36:41] Mike: I mean there could be a bunch of other things like there could be just sort of general body odor like showering. There could be uh I think a really common one is like
  • [36:43] Mike: hair,
  • [36:44] Mike: body hair,
  • [36:49] Mike: right? Like that could be, you know something that's not uh
  • [36:52] Mike: currently culturally what people do uh
  • [36:57] Mike: although you informed me that that is changing as regards armpit hair for women.
  • [36:59] Keith: Yeah, armpit hair is in again apparently.
  • [37:05] Mike: Yes. So, so there could be some changes or it could just be like not what the particular partner expects.
  • [37:13] Mike: Um So I mean like there's a couple ways to look at this, right? I mean you can look at it as a real positive in the sense of like, let's let's say that this is a potential partner who is
  • [37:15] Mike: maybe uh
  • [37:17] Mike: better than
  • [37:19] Mike: what you typically would be able to
  • [37:29] Mike: attract. Maybe they're more attractive or whatever whatever you value in a partner, you could, you could be like, oh wow, this is why this person is available. And if I just help them fix this,
  • [37:32] Mike: then I've like I've taken this sort of dirty penny
  • [37:33] Keith: plus to them,
  • [37:44] Mike: right? I've shined this penny up and now this is awesome. And in most, yeah. And I mean in most cases that will work. The other thing is I mean, look, you have no other real choice because if you don't
  • [37:49] Mike: address it immediately. Yeah. There are two things that can happen. One is they can get upset fine,
  • [37:49] Mike: but
  • [38:04] Mike: what are you going to do? You're going to just ignore permanently. The fact that your partner doesn't wipe their butt or doesn't has body odor and doesn't like acknowledge it or doesn't shower etcetera etcetera.
  • [38:18] Mike: Yeah, I mean, yeah. So, so I mean you really don't have any other choice and I think you just simply have to take that risk, but I think that like in most, I would guess that in the vast majority of cases, like if you're sensitive sensitive about how you bring it up, actually you wind up like winning.
  • [38:20] Keith: Hmm
  • [38:23] Keith: Maybe I suspect
  • [38:25] Keith: there is some
  • [38:26] Keith: point.
  • [38:29] Keith: There's some period of time at the beginning of a relationship
  • [38:31] Keith: where
  • [38:34] Keith: if somebody communicates something to you that they're embarrassed of
  • [38:40] Keith: or the sorry, that is embarrassing to you, that you might just
  • [38:44] Keith: out of shame, move on.
  • [38:50] Keith: Like you you might address the issue but needing to face that person again might be sufficiently
  • [38:52] Keith: embarrassing that
  • [38:59] Keith: you don't wanna, you just don't want, you don't have enough invested in the person to overcome that. That that shame. Well,
  • [39:01] Mike: I mean, what's your other choice? Let's let's say that you,
  • [39:07] Mike: Let's say that you okay, so you're talking early. So let's say you let things go for 2-3 months.
  • [39:17] Mike: So then, so let's let's use this specific example. So this this is like let's say that she or you know, let's say that as partners, they really enjoy the doggy style position. They do it multiple times a week.
  • [39:18] Mike: And so
  • [39:27] Keith: this is good. This is not a good hypothetical because you would probably start moving away from the doggy style position if
  • [39:32] Keith: you know, if you recruit Yeah, but
  • [39:36] Mike: I'll tell you what, this is keith, this is the male equivalent of faking orgasm,
  • [39:46] Mike: right? See once you do this, once you go down this path as a man like that, right? So you're okay. So there's there's two things going on here, number one you said, oh we'll just
  • [39:50] Mike: just move away from the position. That's offensive. Okay. But the problem there is like what if that's
  • [40:06] Mike: one or other partner of the partners favorite position? Uh The second thing is uh you know, okay, let's say you don't move away from the position and now you're just constantly doing that position. Well then when you tell them about the problem, they're gonna be like what you had,
  • [40:10] Keith: it's like telling somebody they have something stuck in their teeth an hour after a meal, right?
  • [40:18] Mike: Like you have to, you have to really come there, right? It's it's like the fake orgasm message. It's like you have to give a really complicated message. Your message has to be something like, look,
  • [40:28] Mike: I used to like the way your poop smelled, but I got tired of it or you know, just like a woman, the same pickle that a woman isn't with faking orgasm. It's like look,
  • [40:30] Mike: you know, it was okay at the beginning.
  • [40:34] Mike: Uh but I've learned about myself. Like you have to have to come up with some explanation.
  • [40:39] Keith: Yeah, you have to be subtle, you'd have to say something like
  • [40:44] Keith: I only started noticing it recently or Yeah, okay, that's exactly what you said. Yeah, there's no
  • [40:50] Keith: Okay, yes, okay. I guess you're right, The paradox here is
  • [40:56] Keith: there is no good time to mention it, But if there is a better time, it's sooner than later.
  • [41:01] Mike: I hear you that Yeah, I hear you that. I mean, I mean if I was going to be a relationship,
  • [41:02] Mike: um,
  • [41:17] Mike: like they're not therapists, the wrong word, but like a relationship coach coach. Sure, Great, great word. I would probably say something which I don't want to be, I don't want that role, but if I were going to be that, I would say something like, look, if you bring it up and
  • [41:25] Mike: uh in the first two weeks and the person flips out like this, then you probably didn't.
  • [41:26] Mike: It was probably
  • [41:28] Mike: best that it ended
  • [41:37] Mike: from a relationship perspective because you know, you have somebody that's like fairly, fairly immature. Like, I mean if you bring up something that's like a reasonable thing, like no, almost nobody. I mean
  • [41:43] Mike: I'm imagining a map of the world with like everything colored green except for Germany, which is red
  • [41:48] Mike: outside of Germany. Nobody wants uh, anal odors
  • [41:53] Mike: or should I say porn or whatever. Uh, but, but but you know, so
  • [41:58] Mike: we just lost our entire german audience. They don't speak english anyway,
  • [42:02] Keith: actually, they generally do. Their language skills are impressive.
  • [42:13] Mike: I know, I know, and we do and we do have, we do have a meaningful audience in Germany. I'm sorry about that, but it is a stereotype is a stereotype. I mean you have other things that are going for you, like, you know, have some
  • [42:15] Mike: excellent
  • [42:27] Mike: ladies are just a very attractive ladies that I really appreciate that. But you also have this issue with the engineer access powers. It's the axis powers. The japanese and the Germans are known to have
  • [42:34] Mike: some issues with their porn and I don't know what the relationship is to World War Two. I just know it's the Axis powers and I mean it's just a well known thing.
  • [42:37] Keith: So, yeah, okay, you're not wrong.
  • [42:41] Keith: Is there something someone could say to you that would make you
  • [42:46] Keith: just nope out of the sexual encounter in shame,
  • [42:49] Mike: in shame. Oh, like if they if they told me that I was gross somehow.
  • [42:56] Keith: Yeah, they're like, oh my God, your P. O. Is just terrible. Or I don't know.
  • [43:00] Mike: Yeah, probably. Probably. It would be like, I mean,
  • [43:03] Mike: well, as a man, it's tricky, right? I mean like,
  • [43:10] Mike: I mean, okay, you can ask this question in general, like let's say that you let's say that you're a woman and you're pretty attractive, Like your
  • [43:13] Mike: seven plus on a scale of 1 to 10
  • [43:16] Mike: and you're with a man
  • [43:19] Mike: and let's say you're like, yeah, you're attractive. Like, is there anything you could say
  • [43:22] Mike: to stop sexual, I mean, you could say
  • [43:25] Mike: I'm I have a disease.
  • [43:33] Mike: Sure. Let's say something, but I'm trying to get pregnant so I can trap a man and get his money. Like there's things they could say, but it's pretty extreme.
  • [43:35] Keith: Yeah, I mean
  • [43:44] Keith: a person can always be like mean and vicious and like that sort of makes that work less compelling. I don't know. Well of course some people have that kink
  • [43:49] Mike: because then you know, it's not just a kick. It's like it's like look say what you want about me if I've,
  • [44:01] Mike: this reminds me of like yeah, this reminds me of the real reason. The real reason why men save videos of them having sex with their ex girlfriends.
  • [44:04] Mike: Especially if the ex girlfriend dumps the man.
  • [44:11] Mike: Yeah, I mean it's like look like that. Yeah, I mean it makes him feel good and so it's yeah, I mean the more negative things she says, hey, it's not going to be a relationship, but like
  • [44:13] Mike: there's a point where you go, hey this is pretty great. Like I'm
  • [44:16] Keith: yeah, okay, so I bring this up because
  • [44:24] Keith: if if a if a caring empathetic woman said something to me like
  • [44:25] Keith: uh
  • [44:27] Keith: you're asshole smells, can you go wipe it?
  • [44:29] Keith: I would,
  • [44:30] Keith: I would go do so
  • [44:32] Keith: and
  • [44:33] Keith: not
  • [44:36] Keith: leave the relationship out of shame.
  • [44:45] Keith: But I think there are like 100 different things that a man can say to a woman, even if he does it in a caring kind way that would just make the woman,
  • [44:47] Keith: I feel so much shame that she would, she would
  • [44:49] Keith: no part of the relationship.
  • [44:53] Mike: So what is the first thing that you think a man could say that would do that?
  • [44:55] Keith: Well, the, I mean, there's the,
  • [44:59] Keith: the topic of this question, like he told her like, oh, you know, you're asshole kind of stinks.
  • [45:01] Keith: But I think if somebody, if,
  • [45:10] Keith: you know it was an early relationship thing and I was like, oh, hey, you have some like stubble in your armpits. I would, I would, would, you know, like you to clean that off or hey, I noticed you have
  • [45:18] Keith: a nipple hair or you know, I just think there's like a whole slew of things. Um,
  • [45:27] Keith: you know, your, your, you know, your toenails are little transit or whatever. I just think there's a whole slew of things that
  • [45:35] Keith: a man could tell a woman and she would, you know, just collapse and shame from it. And I'm not sure that there's a analogous situation for men.
  • [45:44] Mike: I don't know if reading, I mean, the poop one is a nice one, because like, there is, there's definitely, I mean, people are socialized and there's a good reason for this to have shame,
  • [45:48] Mike: feelings about poop. I mean, the good reason is like, because like,
  • [46:02] Mike: you know, society, civilization depends on sewage sewers, not sewage sewers, like good, good, you know, handling sewage properly. Uh, so, so there's a good reason behind that, but I'm not sure that shame is actually the main,
  • [46:13] Mike: in my opinion, motivation here. Um, for the woman, I think it's not that, I think it's that like she's women or like, whereas a man in a, in a relation early relationship or sexual encounters
  • [46:22] Mike: looking to score, he's looking to get that orgasm and notch his bedpost the woman and this is true. I mean, women like, like it or not,
  • [46:33] Mike: the woman, I don't think is looking for that. She's looking for, she's trying to figure out if this is a good match for her as a good partner. And if you say something like, kind of callous like that, like, hey,
  • [46:51] Mike: like, no, look, hey, you could, you could, we just clip off this little hair on your left nipple. She's gonna think to herself, like this is obviously a bad partner and because for women, for almost all women, maybe all women, but also almost all sex is very secondary to the relationship. It's, it's, it's a,
  • [46:54] Mike: there's an emotional dimension that's more important.
  • [47:08] Mike: She's just going to say, look, sex is not important, but I can always get more sex elsewhere very quickly. But, but this behavior is weird now when, when you bring up the poop specifically, I think it's kind of an interesting mixture of the two because I think there would be a significant amount of shame
  • [47:13] Mike: on the other hand, it's like, you know, you could see that the fact that you have the courage
  • [47:23] Mike: to mention this to are actually being a huge plus on the relationship side because it's like, it's a totally reasonable thing to actually ask and the man could do it in such a way that you could say, hey,
  • [47:29] Mike: like as a man, you could probably come up with some little story or anecdote or just some way to like kind of make it not.
  • [47:38] Mike: Yeah, you don't have to be like, yo, you're, you're asks stinks like you could do something more caring than that, you could say, yeah, you know, uh
  • [47:50] Mike: I read about this or I used to have this thing or you could say something. So it's more, you know, these, these techniques to but but but like it's, it's, it would be hard for her to say, well that's an unreasonable thing to be worried about.
  • [47:56] Keith: Yeah, it sounded like this guy delivered things as kindly
  • [47:58] Keith: as he could,
  • [47:59] Keith: although
  • [48:03] Keith: he's the one telling the story, who knows how she received it.
  • [48:09] Mike: I mean maybe there's nothing she can do. Maybe that's just where she's at. She's got, she cleans it. Maybe she did,
  • [48:13] Keith: maybe she assiduously cleaned, you know, all day and
  • [48:17] Keith: he said it after that and so she knows that there's no, there's nothing more she can do.
  • [48:20] Mike: She, she,
  • [48:21] Mike: it would actually be interesting.
  • [48:29] Mike: I don't think we've reached a level of success as podcasters yet where we could do this. But it would actually be interesting to talk to like a gynecologist
  • [48:32] Mike: and ask them things like this, Like how like how
  • [48:34] Keith: variable are various odors?
  • [48:47] Mike: Yeah, I mean, yeah, is this, is this the kind of thing where you, where you do actually have patients where there's just nothing they can do. It's like, yeah, there's like there's this set of people who have like these problems and you think, oh, you can just do this, this, this, but there isn't actually anything they can do.
  • [48:49] Mike: And for a woman, like
  • [48:56] Mike: the reality is that like their anatomy is set up. So like it's pretty tricky and yeah, and that's one of the reasons why there is a shame dimension. Like there's,
  • [49:04] Mike: there's just no way for a woman to have sex without her but holding involved. Whereas a man, a man could basically,
  • [49:06] Mike: a man could like tape his butt cheeks shut
  • [49:12] Mike: and have sex. Like as if there's just not was a woman if she did that, it wouldn't work as well.
  • [49:14] Mike: You couldn't get it in there.
  • [49:17] Keith: Yeah, yep.
  • [49:26] Keith: Um All right. Let's move on. I wanted to be sure we got to this topic. This person says, I'm pretty sure she peed my bed.
  • [49:31] Keith: We 17. So they're both 17. Were having sex and all of a sudden she tells me she's squirting.
  • [49:43] Keith: So I watch and it looks yellow, which is not what I was expecting and it was a stream and my bedsheets smell like piss. Like I don't know if this is if this happens to some girls or if she was faking it.
  • [49:49] Keith: Someone please explain if she actually orgasm or something and uncontrollably peed? I'd be fine with that,
  • [49:53] Keith: but I don't know if that's possible. I'm worried that she faked an orgasm.
  • [50:04] Mike: So uh, can I say something worried, worried that she faked an orgasm? It's a funny comment, but I'm worried. Oh no, it's like, look, look brother. All
  • [50:14] Mike: effectively, all women have done that. Many men have as we've discussed, but but but effectively all women have faked organs. But anyway, I was watching as I do uh
  • [50:17] Mike: a replay. Well, one of these sites that sort of
  • [50:21] Mike: steals, steals the streams
  • [50:41] Mike: of cham people. I think the cam couple was Jill and Jack or Jack and Jill. It's these two people, the guy has an enormous penis. That's not why I go to it though. They have a lot of times a third person on and for some reason I was clicking around on there. Anyway, there was one where, there was, there was one where there was squirting. Okay,
  • [50:43] Mike: and here's what I want to say.
  • [50:56] Mike: Ok, I was able to see the facial expressions of both Jack and Jill whatever their real names are. While this third person was squirting, she was on their couch and I will describe for you the man Jack,
  • [51:00] Mike: his his his facial expression was like
  • [51:08] Mike: joy, happiness chills, facial expression was like some mixture of horror and like your pissing on my couch.
  • [51:10] Keith: I think that women and barrel,
  • [51:18] Mike: I think women basically all know that this is piss like it's not, this is this is this is this like kind of tempest in a teapot where they plant, you know, people will
  • [51:24] Mike: try to play this game of like, oh, you don't know what the fluid is, It's like, come on, like women all know and like
  • [51:38] Mike: when women, by the way, I think, I think actually it wasn't from Creighton miller, I suspect carol, I suspect that like it's a leather couch or something and they know it's going to get pissed on. It's just that like, I think women, because the woman knows she knows what's going on, she knows that this person is just peeing,
  • [51:42] Mike: just letting fourth, it's not some sort of orgasmic,
  • [51:47] Mike: whatever, It could be incontinence, but it's in this case, it wasn't, it was just the woman peeing.
  • [51:54] Mike: Um and it's also kind of like very vulgar, right? It's like not like there are these videos online of like a woman peeing
  • [51:57] Mike: where you know, she's sitting on a toilet or whatever. This isn't that this is a woman, like
  • [52:06] Mike: essentially in the gynecological pose, legs completely spread vulva open and then she's just fucking peeing and like that's pretty vulgar.
  • [52:08] Mike: Pretty lewd.
  • [52:10] Keith: Well
  • [52:16] Keith: what if what if it is true that some women,
  • [52:18] Keith: some women
  • [52:20] Keith: have
  • [52:25] Keith: have to in order to maximally enjoy sex,
  • [52:30] Mike: like, like the making noise thing. No,
  • [52:32] Keith: no, no,
  • [52:39] Keith: okay, is it possible? But that there is some sort of uncontrollable spazz Matic emptying of the bladder,
  • [52:43] Mike: Oh yeah, there's incontinence, but I mean you're you're basically, I mean like
  • [52:46] Keith: not related to incontinence related to sexual pleasure.
  • [52:53] Mike: Well that's what incontinence is incontinence is when you like when you're when you pee without meaning to, men
  • [52:55] Keith: never do that during sex.
  • [52:59] Keith: That's because there and there are incontinent men.
  • [53:01] Mike: Yeah, but there,
  • [53:07] Mike: okay, first of all, I have seen a video of a man peeing inside a woman's vagina in the
  • [53:09] Keith: shower.
  • [53:11] Mike: I think you could
  • [53:12] Mike: man,
  • [53:15] Keith: it's hard to when I'm fully erect anyway.
  • [53:22] Mike: I know, but I think you could do it. It's I mean anyway I've seen I've seen a video, secondly.
  • [53:31] Mike: Yeah, for a man it's like look, the anatomy makes incontinence less likely because like there's just a lot more urethra to go around.
  • [53:36] Mike: And secondly, when you're yeah, I mean like there's some sort of,
  • [53:47] Mike: you know, there's some sort of valve in there, you know, I mean there's something, look there's a reason why your semen doesn't go up into your bladder, it's because there's something that sort of squeezes that off and so that's why it's difficult for you to pee while you have an erection etcetera etcetera. And so it's like
  • [53:55] Mike: not particularly likely for a man to have this kind of incontinence for a woman it's much more plausible because like their anatomy is totally different
  • [53:56] Mike: in that regard
  • [54:01] Mike: are largely different. Um But look it's
  • [54:05] Mike: yeah, it's I don't think, okay anyway, to your question of whether a woman would would
  • [54:14] Mike: need to involuntary or need to do this. I mean, you're presupposing that the only way she can orgasm is, is she if she has a full bladder?
  • [54:18] Mike: What if you just peed before you're saying that it's impossible. It would be then, you know, like, I
  • [54:20] Keith: mean, we've been through this before.
  • [54:25] Keith: Like, some women claim there's like,
  • [54:37] Keith: you know, like, okay, I don't know if this is a good analogy, but sometimes, you know, you'll you'll eat dinner and you'll have a big steak dinner and you'll you'll feel really full. But then someone will say like, oh, there's creme brulee or chocolate cake. And like,
  • [54:42] Keith: somehow you have like, extra space in your stomach to eat sweets.
  • [54:49] Keith: Like, I don't know. Yeah. And you know, the dogs sometimes too, you know, you'll see a dog, like marking
  • [54:56] Keith: Every spot on like a 10 block area somehow. Like, they seem to, like, have, like this infinite reserve of, like, extra urine and their bladder.
  • [54:57] Keith: Okay,
  • [54:58] Keith: So,
  • [55:02] Keith: yeah, maybe there's always enough to squirt with,
  • [55:05] Keith: regardless of how recently you've paid.
  • [55:14] Keith: And of course, we're not addressing this, But there are people who claim that there's some other reservoir.
  • [55:14] Keith: Mhm.
  • [55:20] Keith: I know. I know you don't want to address that, right? The irony is that we don't have M. R. I. Machines or something.
  • [55:32] Mike: Yeah. These it's it's some it's like some kind of weird, like, Covid denialism, I'm not sure which side of denying are they, are they the anti mask people, the anti vax people? I don't know who it is, masked people, whoever it is,
  • [55:52] Mike: but these same people or there's a set of people out there that think there's this extra reservoir and then there's also this set of people out there that think that women have an infinite supply of the requisite hormones to have infinite orgasms. That all feel really good. Back to back. Just like, look like where, like, where is this in the female anatomy? Because if I could get that,
  • [55:54] Mike: if I could get that
  • [55:56] Mike: anatomical piece, the one that gives me
  • [55:59] Mike: that hormone or whatever
  • [56:08] Mike: series of chemicals that make, you know, they sort of emanate from your crotch that are obviously put into your bloodstream or whatever whatever your body is doing.
  • [56:13] Mike: If I could get that put in my body that, I mean, I think it's I think, I think that's heroin
  • [56:28] Mike: or something. I think, I think it's just that so there's a problem with that. Um, but anyway, okay, so, so, so I think we can set aside the extra reservoir because I don't know that's just silliness. Um, but yeah, like the,
  • [56:30] Mike: you know, I mean,
  • [56:38] Mike: it's sure it's plausible that they always have a certain amount. You can look at how much urine is made by the kidneys per minute. It's it's significant. And there's always some p
  • [56:50] Keith: maybe there's some sort of correlation, maybe even causation between women who are, quote, unquote able to squirt, quote unquote able to quote unquote squirt
  • [56:54] Keith: uh and some sort of bladder issue.
  • [56:55] Mike: Well I don't I mean like
  • [56:58] Keith: maybe they're not good at emptying their bladder and so
  • [57:06] Mike: I don't I mean I think that you know usually the best explanation is the simplest one. I mean if you if you if you search for um
  • [57:15] Mike: what I would consider like the most convincing squirting porn. Um So what I consider not convincing is a woman just where it's just like what I described from Jack and
  • [57:18] Keith: jills.
  • [57:26] Mike: Yeah, I mean it's ridiculous like she pees and it's like it's like obviously a full bladder full of just pee and like they're not just like
  • [57:39] Mike: I mean by the way like if she was having an orgasm, like there would be contractions that would sort of stop it and start it. I mean it would look a little different than just, you know, if the p is just coming out continuously. Like that is not an orgasm. I mean men should know this because men know
  • [57:45] Mike: that the feeling of an orgasm is sort of the opposite of the feeling of peeing, it's like the opposite direction. It's a pull instead of push. But anyway
  • [57:47] Mike: uh if they're like
  • [57:50] Mike: the most convincing porn of squirting
  • [57:54] Mike: in what I've seen involves like the man, a man
  • [57:59] Mike: putting his fingers into the woman's vagina vigorously rubbing the upper
  • [58:22] Mike: sort of interior the part toward the clitoris inside the vagina, which is the part, which is where the urethra is for the woman, right? That's where it is. And it makes sense to me that what he's really doing there by rubbing rubbing, you know, going nuts is he's basically, he's basically off turning off the muscle. He's preventing her from making her incontinent, making her incontinent just in the same way that like,
  • [58:32] Mike: yeah, there's probably some area below your balls in your taint area that if you really stimulated vigorously, like you could maybe not, I'm not sure, but you might be able to make it kind of confusing whether like,
  • [58:35] Mike: you know, am I holding back my P. Or not because you sort of like,
  • [58:38] Mike: yeah, you kind of like activated that muscle so much.
  • [58:44] Mike: Um And so yeah, they do that. And then when the woman and then at some point the woman starts peeing because she can't,
  • [58:50] Mike: yeah, she's been rendered incontinent and I mean I can't not right. And I mean like if somebody, if a woman is getting,
  • [58:56] Mike: you know, she's getting P. I. Ve by a guy with a really good earthy penis.
  • [58:59] Mike: Hey, I mean I could see that happening uh
  • [59:01] Mike: you know, you get up in there and
  • [59:06] Mike: and it sort of rubs it and so yeah, I mean you could and, and also some women are predisposed. Also, you
  • [59:14] Keith: would also see lots of circumstances where people are quote unquote squirting when they're not orgasm. Ng like there would be little, there'd be some correlation there, but you're not okay.
  • [59:20] Mike: But like, but importantly, like, my view on this is not that it doesn't exist. My view on it is that people's obsession with this stupid,
  • [59:22] Mike: it's like, you're like, I mean, it would be like,
  • [59:27] Mike: it would be like if there were, I mean there probably are women who faint during orgasm because they have like some sort of,
  • [59:28] Mike: you know,
  • [59:33] Mike: low blood pressure or some sort of syndrome. I mean, I'm sure there's all kinds of things
  • [59:35] Mike: that can happen to people during orgasm
  • [59:40] Mike: because it's like a kind of a unique event in your body. And if you have some other problem,
  • [59:43] Mike: they could sort of, you know,
  • [59:46] Mike: they could be really, they could relate, right? I mean, like, you know,
  • [59:52] Mike: and so I don't really understand, well, I do understand why people get obsessed with this. It's because men,
  • [59:57] Mike: I love the idea of things squirting out of people's bodies when they have orgasms.
  • [60:04] Keith: Well, some sort of physical manifestation of a female's pleasure. It would be,
  • [60:09] Keith: would be nice if it were reliable and scientific.
  • [60:13] Mike: Sure. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, then you have like the,
  • [60:15] Mike: um,
  • [60:20] Mike: the guaranteed result of women, like then it just becomes completely
  • [60:24] Mike: performative. Yeah, but I'm just saying that like
  • [60:32] Keith: the dream that like a woman has a very analogous situation to a man when, when she orgasms is,
  • [60:35] Keith: is obvious and that people
  • [60:37] Keith: are
  • [60:52] Keith: inclined to believe that that squirting is real in the most egregious way that some people defendant is like, I understand why people are tempted to believe
  • [60:53] Keith: doesn't make it so that
  • [61:14] Mike: sure. I mean, men could, you know, women could, there could be some porn. I mean, you can imagine a lot of these things, there could be some porn where like a woman who's lactating, like makes us the, there's milk that shoots out when she orgasms. Like look at that. But the main message here to a guy would just be like, you need to like grow up, like it's not like women don't care about sex as much as you, you do or you want them to and this stuff is largely not true. The thing that happens is largely
  • [61:19] Mike: not that interesting, not as interesting as you want it to be. All that being said.
  • [61:22] Mike: Like you as a man of fortunate
  • [61:27] Mike: that you find it very interesting and you get a lot of enjoyment out of it. And for the most part, women are willing to
  • [61:29] Mike: go along with that
  • [61:32] Mike: and create a pretty good situation for you, but like
  • [61:35] Mike: kidding yourself into thinking that like there,
  • [61:39] Mike: Yeah, like when they're giving you a blow, I mean, yeah, like it's like your blowjob thing, right? It's like,
  • [61:41] Mike: it's like,
  • [61:51] Mike: yes, the woman may enjoy it, but she's not, she's not sitting there thinking like, oh my God, this is like the greatest thing that ever happened to me
  • [61:55] Mike: when you're nutting in her mouth. She's thinking, well he enjoyed it.
  • [62:02] Mike: It's the thought she's having aren't the thoughts you exactly want her to be having. But part of being an adult is to
  • [62:03] Mike: realize that
  • [62:09] Mike: and be like, oh grateful that this person, you know, and look, women have to do the same gymnastics. They, you know, have to
  • [62:13] Mike: come to accept these predilections that men have and
  • [62:15] Mike: enjoy the situation in spite of them.
  • [62:18] Keith: Yeah. Yeah.
  • [62:26] Keith: Okay, that's probably a good place to stop. So that's a wrap on episode 55 of your mileage may vary.
  • [62:30] Keith: Thanks to mike for that primer on female experience in anatomy.
  • [62:31] Mike: You're welcome.
  • [62:42] Keith: You can find us at Y M M V pod on twitter or Y mmV pod at gmail dot com. That would be the perfect place to ask mike to be your relationship coach.