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Episode 57: Is Kim Kardashian Hot? Incest Porn, OnlyFans, Mutual Masturbation, Loads Everywhere!

Team YMMV | 3-10-2022 | 1:04:33

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YMMV is not a celebrity gossip podcast, but the answer to the first question is "No." Societal delusion aside, this is not someone who meets the traditional definitions of attractiveness, and that's not even considering how she looks.

We discuss the health consequences of porn and an online forum which appears to tout "actual" incest porn. Is it real? Possibly so. And, if so, why are there people who enjoy this stuff?

We also talk about the /r/nofap subreddit and how effective that is at improving (or lowering) people's quality of life.

Another discussion of larger-than-life dildoes. Is mutual masturbation compelling, or is it the "69 of handjobs," as Keith describes it?

Virgin detection and multiple shots on goal round out the episode. Loads everywhere indeed!

To see the relevant incest porn thread, here is a link:

https://ymmv.me/57/incest-porn

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/57/less-porn

https://ymmv.me/57/mutual-masturbation

https://ymmv.me/57/virgin

https://ymmv.me/57/onlyfans

https://ymmv.me/57/two-shots-on-goal

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with a patented formula comprised of honesty humor and deadpan delivery. We have a fun show plan for today with discussions about the potential damage a porn watching habit has the allure of mutual masturbation initiating sex amongst seventy year olds and more I'm Keith my co-host is mike what's new mike.
  • [00:22] Mike: Not too much is still perplexed about Kim Kardashian well she's now dating Pete Davidson
  • [00:25] Keith: Um, what's going on with her. Yeah I think I saw think today the new Kanye video has imagery of Pete Davidson being buried alive and people are bothered by this.
  • [00:40] Mike: Yeah I mean to be fair, it's retaliation for ah Pete Davidson making fun of Kanye for wearing a maga hat at some point and supporting Trump so they you know.
  • [00:48] Keith: Okay I don't I can't even do this mike I can't even pretend to care about this so I'm just going to move on with the intro. So we're all, we're always eager to hear from our listeners. So if you have any feedback or questions for the show. We could be reached at ymmvpod on Twitter. And at y m mv pod at http://gmail.com we pay $10 for feedback received at either of those places. So let us know your preferred payment method in your message also please rate and review the show and don't be bashful about telling your family and friends about this great sex podcast you found. Okay I have like a.
  • [01:20] Mike: Hang on Keys So the the but but just really quickly just really quickly. No no, we can move off of that but the quickly the thing that I find interesting about this and it is something we talk about somewhat frequently and we don't have to talk about it integrate depth but is the fact that like.
  • [01:25] Keith: You're going to insist. We talk about fucking kanye.
  • [01:33] Keith: Ah.
  • [01:38] Mike: Kim Kardashian shows that like there's some cultural transformation going on where men are seeking high so women because of their status instead of their attractor There's no chance these these men are interested in her because of her attractiveness her goodness at sex like whatever it is. You know how great she is that know this is. There's sat their're status seeking and I think that's like an interesting like change in our culture because it would historically have been what a woman might do is seeking status by well forget? Ah, but I I promised I wouldn't talk about Kanye so so I'm not interested in that it's just purely It's just purely like look you have the like here's the deal like.
  • [02:02] Keith: Well Kanye is gay right? or or the rumor is he's gay.
  • [02:15] Mike: Doesn't make any sense for these for for Pete Davidson be to be attracted to Kim Kardashian he can't possibly on some level be that attracted to her well, that doesn't matter.
  • [02:20] Keith: Well, he's not exactly you know Mel Gibson or I guess that's a dated reference. It's not. He's not exactly who's who's a handsome. He's not exactly Ryan Gosling himself
  • [02:30] Mike: Sure. But but as it but as a high status man at this point like he can look I mean ah on sn l he sits next to that that doofy Colin Jost guy who's married to Scarlett Johans and um this is the maximum my celebrity knowledge by the way this is I'm yeah I know.
  • [02:42] Keith: I cannot believe the about of pop culture. We're getting here.
  • [02:48] Mike: But but so he has the ability to sort of land something like that and instead he's going for a high so high perceived status person which I just think is interesting also ah bothers me yeah, men shouldn't be doing that.
  • [02:57] Keith: Yeah I mean I think that Kim Kardashian is objectively Pete Davidson is not a handsome man I am not personally attracted to Kim Kardashian but she's objectively better looking than him but subjectively he could do much much much better because of his fame and wealth. He's not as wealthy as Kimba I mean Kim's got like.
  • [03:03] Mike: That doesn't matter.
  • [03:12] Mike: Sure I.
  • [03:16] Keith: At least 2 orders of magnitude more wealth than him right.
  • [03:17] Mike: I Assume the yeah this yeah this is just some sort of weird status pursuit like he shouldn't be doing it. He would probably say something like look I'm crazy. What am I Yeah, that's not what it is okay, let's move on though. It's not that interesting.
  • [03:24] Keith: Oh Mike maybe he likes her sense of humor. Okay I have a follow up from 2 episodes ago and I feel like I'm displaying my neurosis or neuroticness. I do these followups but we talked about how many calories to sex burn and apparently ah men burn an average of one hundred and one calories during sex and women burn around sixty nine calories per incident. So it's four point two calories per minute versus three point two calories per minute. So. The man's burning roughly a third more. Ah, actually you're right that that probably is just weight differential right.
  • [04:02] Mike: That could just be weight differential right? I mean neither of those is a particularly impressive number. Now I mean also like with these sorts of things you have to ask how they even measure it and so forth I Mean there's like yeah so room for skepticism.
  • [04:16] Keith: Yeah, of course. Yeah, okay, well I just wanted to follow that up. Um I wanted to talk about if porn is healthy or not I've been went down I do this like once a year go down the like no fap rabbit hole. No fap of course is the I don't know if it started on Reddit but it's ah it's an ah, extremely popular subreddit where these men give up masturbating fapping is internet slaying for masturbating and no fap is the subreddit for men who have decided to give up. Masturbation entirely and I'm not prepared to do that and porn usage for me is pretty highly correlated with masturbating ninety Nine Point X percent correlated. Ah, but. Yeah I mean these guys have decided that I think porn is not good for them for for for men. Generally do you have a counterpoint to their hypothesis.
  • [05:23] Mike: Well I mean I mean well first I would I guess to to echo it or to underline it there definitely are. It's pretty common. You know for people to talk about porn addiction some notion that like courses the culture makes it so like you know the way that men think about women is somehow colored.
  • [05:41] Keith: Made worse. Yeah sure.
  • [05:43] Mike: By their experience with porn. Um, that being said like I I think that broadly it's probably neutral to somewhat positive. Um I think that like people probably learn some amount of stuff from porn. Um.
  • [05:59] Keith: Okay.
  • [06:02] Mike: There's there's some unfortunate tropes in porn. Obviously the one I rail against probably the most is like the kind of weird. Ah, the weird fact that porn something like ninety nine plus percent of the time that a female orgasm is shown in porn. It's it's fake and if you don't believe me, go ask the people the ladies on the chick flicks subreddit and they will concur readily. Um, I'm sure. But ah yeah, but but generally like I think it informs people more and the other thing is like it provides.
  • [06:28] Keith: Um, what sorts of what sorts of positive information. Do people glean from Porn I'm not disagreeing I'm just curious.
  • [06:37] Mike: I mean I Just I think that just generally like there are people there is there is plenty of porn that can give people access to like a a fairly realistic picture of of what goes on and and sort of how how to do it in and a reasonable How to how to how to have sex in a reasonable manner. But um, yeah I mean there's also like lots of other obviously less reasonable or more like fetish things that maybe not everybody would be into but ah on that I would sort of say you know it's a it's a way for people to experience that that without. Ah. Having to impose that on another person but but my main argument I think is something like this. It's that I think that historically society was constructed in such a way that um, ah men had more access to sort of paid forms of sexual entertainment than exist now in most. Places and it was less criticized by Society. It was considered more sort of normalized.. There are places in the world where that's.
  • [07:39] Keith: Wonder if that's true I I just watched unforgiven and yeah, this notion of horrorrehouses in these wild West towns was it's like a really common trope. Ah.
  • [07:53] Mike: Sure or like in the plays of Shakespeare like people things are brought up like I think it's ah I mean like if you go to Pompei like 1 of the main things is the brothel. Um, there's an interesting ama on the having fun hobbying subreddit which is a subreddit about people who visit escorts. Although there's some.
  • [07:59] Keith: Um, sure right.
  • [08:13] Mike: Overlap which I hope to discuss at some point on this podcast between that and seeking arrangement. But ah, there's a really interesting ama right? there right on there today. Although when this broadcasts it will be a little later people can go back and find it with a woman who is a sex worker in Spain I think she's in Spain I didn't watch all of it and.
  • [08:13] Keith: Yeah, we'll get there in a future episode.
  • [08:32] Mike: 1 of the things she answers questions about is like what are the different attitudes in Spain I guess in Spain it's not illegal. Pimps are less common. And yeah I mean she just has like this variety of things she does for different clients. It's not always like hardcore sex like there's a variety of things that she does um and generally I think the porn sort of plugs that whole like in the sort of.
  • [08:44] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I say.
  • [08:52] Mike: More Victorian societies I think you have this sort of whole where men men basically have these needs these impulses that porn can sort of assist with ah and basically during a period of time from say like I'm not sure exactly when like prostitution got totally considered taboo but say. Sometime in the eighteen hundreds at least in Anglo -american culture through to basically the advent of Internet Porn. You had guys that grew up with like really little access to kind of straightfor you know, just a way you could pay for sex or have like an unusual experience or something you fetishized and I suspect that that goes badly for women.
  • [09:24] Keith: Right? Yeah, non non-imagination based non-imagination based sexual stimulation was hard to come by. But.
  • [09:31] Mike: Right? And I think yeah I think that I think that causes like violence against women I think it causes all kinds of like weird social ills. Ah, and um I think yeah I So I suspect porn is a a positive there. Of course there are negatives also but but broadly I think neutral deposit is the right take.
  • [09:46] Keith: Okay I think I'm convinced by that argument. Ah, But what about the Negative. So I think a common thing you read on Nofap is how people's chemical receptors in their brains. Be it I don't know which one and you know. People throw around these chemicals now like everyone knows what they're talking about but it you know some combination of dopamine Serotonin Oxytocin Whatever they can get sort of broken by ah, regular porn use so you can get used to having new.
  • [10:13] Mike: Right.
  • [10:25] Keith: Perfect stimulus every time you have an orgasm and that can have some down downside negative Impacts Downstream Negative impact.
  • [10:34] Mike: I'm sure that's true I mean it makes sense to me that that would be true like the ah yeah I mean the most obvious negative impact is just going to be and I think this is definitely true in society now that like men will simply like look if you have a partner who ah. As a guy you're like okay you know each time we go on a date or whatever each time we hang out. There's like an n percent probability that we're going to have sex and n is somewhere between zero and a hundred I mean for some people. It's like a hundred but tip the typical would be somewhere like maybe in the fifty seventy thirty range like not you know, just a normal kind of median number for a guy. It's like. Okay, so as a guy you have this need and you're rolling the dice like am I going to get irritated if we basically hang out and then don't I don't get to have sex I don't get an orgasm and so you can see how porn would become a crutch there. Basically a guy's like look I'm always going to you know access the optionality of porn and beating off to basically like. Have an orgasm regardless and then that could lead to the guy becoming significantly less interested both in sex and in the partner because ah the reality is that a big part of what guys get out of a partner is sex probably the number 1 thing right.
  • [11:41] Keith: Sure I mean having Porn backstop. You think it might cause some bad behavior in men knowing that they have this release elve.
  • [11:51] Mike: Absolutely because basically you like you won't angle. You won't be as like yeah you won't You won't treat the encounter with your partner or your potential partner the same way because you're like oh well I'm ah I'm going to I already you did beat off.
  • [12:09] Keith: Right? right.
  • [12:11] Mike: Which then also likely makes any sexual encounter you have with the person less compelling whereas I know one of the nofap tropes and this is definitely true is like look if you don't beat off for like thirty days and then you have sex with a woman like you're really grateful to the woman after that right.
  • [12:24] Keith: Yeah, well I wanted to think about you know so these guys on nofa will go through streaks where they go you know weeks at a time without masturbating or looking at porn and then you know they they talk about relapses. Ah.
  • [12:40] Mike: Fifth.
  • [12:43] Keith: And they they talk about you know they sound like you know people in a a right? You know you get a chip every week I think that you're in aa for you know, not having any alcohol. Um, but yeah, like I wonder if you have you know, given yourself death grip or gotten to a point where normal. Sexual encounters are less compelling to you because of some sort of you know, um, just can use the word here. Brain damage. You've incurred from watching too much porn like how long does it take to rewire things would you expect like would you expect that doing something differently for a few weeks is enough to. Have a meaningful change in your brain chemistry.
  • [13:20] Mike: Um, I mean you know there's something that gets wired differently I mean just just in terms of like the physical experience you have of sex and and nutting is different after yeah, um and then like yeah I mean and then like some sort of desensitizing That's obviously also the case because.
  • [13:30] Keith: Well yeah.
  • [13:40] Mike: Yeah I mean like you you like you wouldn't like put it this way like if you didn't use porn for a month you'd be much better able to masturbate with imagination with your imagination and if you then had access to a few porns like it would be pretty delightful. Whereas if you have full access for the entire month. You're just like oh it's you know it's like anything. It's like having access to like chocolate Sundays every day right? and it stops stops mattering as much. Um, and I assume I mean I assume that the the main thing these guys are maybe they're making some weird claim about like oh I feel so I feel stronger more powerful if I don't.
  • [13:58] Keith: Right? Yeah, you get desensitized.
  • [14:15] Mike: Masturbate. But I think the main claim has got to be like you're more attentive to your female partner because you're more like grateful for what they have to offer and that I think there's just it's just unquestionably true. Um, yeah that that that porn basically like makes it kind of.
  • [14:19] Keith: Right.
  • [14:31] Mike: Trickier on the other hand like if a woman's less into sex like it's kind of cooler right? because there's this you know you're not getting it foisted on you all the time.
  • [14:35] Keith: Right? Yeah, Okay I Do wonder if having access to like infinite, perfect sexual stimulation visual sexual stimulation which obviously is not as good as actual sex. Although. Talked before for some people that Gap is closing where they where they can be satisfied with or they're even more satisfied with just visual stimulation from various porns that are available than they are actually pursuing women but for me ah actual sexual stimulation is still more compelling. But. Ah, yeah I think that having you know access to perfect visual stimulation at any time can yeah I don't know I don't know what effect it has on me and my relationships. But I think like.
  • [15:21] Mike: You don't but you don't think that if you ah if if in 1 case, you go out on a date and maybe there's some odds of of coming home and having sex after the date in the 1 case you masturbated twice with porn. Earlier that day and in the second case you haven't seen a porn in three weeks you don't think that like in the second case like you're going to be super attentive to the woman. Oh and also you have no hope of seeing porn for three weeks later say like you won in there right.
  • [15:40] Keith: Um, yeah, no, ah right? you know I I absolutely do. But there's a difference between what you're talking about which I think is like desperation or almost like a thirst where so.
  • [15:57] Mike: Yeah.
  • [16:00] Keith: Like depriving yourself of porn you you definitely get get thirstier. But I'm talking about the sort of like longer term thing which is when you have access to perfect visual stimulus at any time does that have some sort of effect and how long does it take. To rewire that effect like at any point you can just stop looking at Porn for honestly, just a few days and reap some sort of benefit of increased desperation or thirst. But how do you undo the sort of I don't know more neural network based damage that. Having access to ideal stimulation visual stimulation at any time may occur does that question make sense. Okay.
  • [16:43] Mike: Yeah I don't think that's it does I don't think that's really a thing for a couple reasons one is that I think the stimulation of actual like this could become an issue like in our virtual reality future. You know, 20 years from now if like this stuff gets to a point where like it's indist. It really becomes indistinguishable for your brain from real life like then yeah, you might like.
  • [16:59] Keith: M.
  • [17:03] Mike: Might be like wow my my girlfriend's not as attractive as my virtual girlfriend and that might be a problem I mean you you have some of those like weird guys in Japan who like marry emojis and stuff you know so that's already happened a little but like you could imagine that being more like you know like and I mean this is the thing that ah well.
  • [17:13] Keith: Um, right.
  • [17:21] Mike: Was a joke as a trope until a friend of ours did it wearing a 3 a vr headset watching porn while you're significant other gives you a blow like which most men would not ask for that for obvious reasons. But although some women are willing to and even eager to do that for various reasons.
  • [17:31] Keith: Right.
  • [17:38] Keith: Wait You mean they wouldn't ask they wouldn't ask for it because they'd be embarrassed to or they don't want to hurt their partner's feelings.
  • [17:41] Mike: Maybe submissiveness. Yeah, because yeah, like all of the above. It's like I mean look look okay, maybe once as a man, you'd be interested in that ah with the woman wearing a virtual headset virtual reality headset. But if that went on like if the tenth time you'd be like come on like this this is starting to become dehumanizing for me. Um, but yeah, you could imagine the virtual stimulus getting so amazing that that becomes an issue because yeah, the thing you're describing is some sort of like ptsd-like thing of like hey I've had these experiences that now permanently have altered my brain.
  • [18:00] Keith: Right? Yeah yeah.
  • [18:18] Mike: So it's difficult for me to interact. Normally I don't think that porn thus far is um, engrossing enough to accomplish that. Yeah I could it be yeah, just in the sense that like I think you look look you could have a partner a sexual partner at some point in your life.
  • [18:22] Keith: Good enough. Ha.
  • [18:34] Mike: Like yeah I mean this is like this could be a problem for like a man who cheats on his wife with someone much younger, right? Like it's a thing to consider it might sort of break your brain in a certain way. You might not be able to forget like how much more compelling This woman was I bet that happens actually.
  • [18:47] Keith: yeah well yeah I mean I guess here let me see if I can like distill this down like let's say so people have their sexual preferences and you know some people prefer blonde some people prefer you know, brunettes or asians or whatever. Um. But let's say you had some objective way to measure attractiveness and you know for a given person they will have sex with somebody who is a 6 or higher and they won't have sex with somebody who's a 6 or lower and then they go through some four month long odyssey where they are watching porn. That's perfect for them every day for the next you know four months and they have infinite access to it. Do you think that would move at all their baseline attractiveness to a 6 like would they then prefer 6 point three or something.
  • [19:34] Mike: I don't think so but I think that like the oculus porn like gets closer to maybe doing that like something that's as as you get closer to something feeling real. Ah yeah I think and and like in terms of like if they went to Las Vegas and had like a series of escorts like they're pretty attractive escorts ah that i've.
  • [19:51] Keith: Yeah, right me too.
  • [19:54] Mike: Met platonically in Vegas before yeah if you had a succession of those I think it could become an issue like you then are unable to interact with like a normal person. Yeah, so in the yeah, there's some long run very deep like generally like I think there's a long run sort of very deep risk.
  • [20:00] Keith: Um, yeah, ah okay, ah.
  • [20:13] Mike: In some of this stuff Sex Dolls Vr and the risk is essentially to women that like men will become sort of permanently somewhat uninterested.
  • [20:19] Keith: Yeah I mean this is too much to get into now because I previewed some other topics I'd like to get to. But yeah, you could imagine a future where men don't at all or you know, maybe not all men but you know the majority or a plurality of men don't. Even have any sexual interest in women anymore and that would be much more affecting for women in such a society than it would be for men and maybe right Good callback. Okay, um.
  • [20:46] Mike: Which brings us right around to Kanye and Pete Davidson but let's move on.
  • [20:57] Keith: We talked about whether she should do this before the episode or not. But ah you found a ah ah website that you wanted to tell us about.
  • [21:03] Mike: So Yeah I was I was searching around for ah some new topics and content and there's a website which has a it's a comment. It's It's like the sex I read it except much stranger and harder core in some ways we'll put a link to it in the show notes. This is a particular thread. Although. Listeners are welcome of course to create accounts on this site and go around and look at other parts of it and maybe we'll refer to some other part in a future episode but this is someone who I had some I said if they want to I mean I can't yeah.
  • [21:31] Keith: I'm not sure I can fully come on board with recommending that to our listeners but to be clear. Yeah, this is not medical advice you you may if you if you like.
  • [21:40] Mike: Well, there are other parts of the side besides this one but this particular part is it's it's it's the ah it's the family sex relationship Forum family sex relationship and so this is a particular guy I'm assuming it's a man although the picture is a of a female but I'm certain It's a man who says that they.
  • [21:47] Keith: Ah. Um, yeah, That's not who it is.
  • [21:57] Mike: Yeah, this person is very into incest pictures and videos This is specifically about pictures and um, he's interested in seeing facial similarities when he sees credible incest pictures. That's the gold standard for him. Um.
  • [22:08] Keith: Yeah, his exact words are I Love the facial similarities when I see credible incest picks. That's the gold standard in my opinion.
  • [22:14] Mike: Right? And he says yes he says please study the faces here and and come freely so we've got a series. So I mean let's look at like you you have it upright Keith so let's look at the first picture here and people can follow along by going to the link I mean.
  • [22:24] Keith: I I do? Yeah yeah.
  • [22:33] Mike: These people it's to the point where it's a man sort of germanic looking man ah holding a woman in his arms and she's smiling. They're both smiling and they do look and they're both naked. Of course they do look like there may be yeah siblings. Um.
  • [22:36] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [22:44] Keith: These 2 look like each other. Yeah, they're siblings for sure and the next one I don't know I think so I hope so I don't think they're siblings. Ah.
  • [22:51] Mike: And then if you continue scrolling like it gets a little unclear like maybe the third one. Maybe that's supposed to be a dad and his daughter right.
  • [23:03] Keith: But yeah, they have different skin tone and because they're different. Yeah because the age difference. It's hard to speak about that 1 but okay, let's let's move on to the third one here it does. Yeah, you can you can tell its daughters because the breast shapes are all very similar.
  • [23:08] Mike: Yeah, the third picture seems to be like a nudist family. So a man a woman and 2 daughters the fourth one appears to be a go ahead.
  • [23:22] Mike: That's interesting I would not have do you think that's like a a tell. Ah, okay, all right. The fourth one appears to be a mother and a daughter. Maybe the mother has breast implants.
  • [23:24] Keith: They're nipples too. I Think in this case. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm not sure about this one. They have similar teeth. The mom must have implants. Yes.
  • [23:36] Mike: So okay and we we I mean it just goes on and on. There's a lot of pictures here. Ultimately, there's like someone giving a blow that's much older. Maybe she's ah his mom I don't want to get into that too much. Do you have any so I chatted with this guy a little bit ah via the messaging just try to get try to get the bottom.
  • [23:51] Keith: No, why.
  • [23:56] Mike: Know just to try to get to the bottom of what's going on here and um, he he just seemed perplexed by like why I was. Ah yeah why I was perplexed. He said you know he says look this community's strongly pro incest if you have any other questions just ask and my goal is to Relay information from real incest cussles.
  • [23:57] Keith: Ah.
  • [24:03] Keith: You are perplexed.
  • [24:13] Keith: I love.
  • [24:15] Mike: Couples and I said well okay, you know, do you know couples that are doing this. He says yes of course I talked to these couples and he's like you need and then he asked me why are you curious about brother sister couples specifically any insight on that so he's trying to like convert me I think into being an incest watcher which is not going to work. Do you think that there's I mean can you.
  • [24:18] Keith: Of course, of course.
  • [24:26] Keith: Right? Yeah right.
  • [24:32] Mike: Do you have any comprehension of why this would enhance like obviously this guy I assume is beating off to these pictures or videos like would that work for you in any situation. Do you.
  • [24:40] Keith: These pictures like is this a kink of mine or would converting somebody and and make me or.
  • [24:45] Mike: But does this kink make any sense like how is this I don't understand.
  • [24:50] Keith: No, this is not ok, look separating the like absolute tabooness of this topic. Ah I mean if it's abstracted from me like I I'm Ki believe I'm saying this but like yeah like I'm obviously not at all interested. Sexual relationships with my own family and beyond that like sexual relationship interfamily sexual relationships are just not compelling. The only exception we've talked about this on previous episodes is you know like ah I think Playboy used to do these like twins and triplets episodes not episodes issues.
  • [25:11] Mike: Okay.
  • [25:26] Mike: The.
  • [25:29] Keith: That's kind of cool I mean it's It's sort of interesting. Although I don't know I don't think it would be.
  • [25:34] Mike: But it's important that the the twins or triplets not be related to you. They just need to be related to others but to to each other. So um, so the ah the the reason part of the reason that drew my part of the thing that drew my attention to this comment thread of course was like the stepsister Actually I mean I.
  • [25:38] Keith: Yes, right? Yes, yes.
  • [25:54] Mike: I Didn't think this guy was going to be real incest to be honest when I engaged with this person I thought we were going in the direction of like the stepsister step Mom trope from Pornhub which appeared we've we've seen this is a really popular genre I was surprised when he was like no no, no like I can do one better here. Didn't expect that level of commitment. Um, do you think that like.
  • [25:59] Keith: Yeah, bright right? right? Fake incest.
  • [26:10] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [26:14] Mike: So do you think that like when people look at maybe we just can't answer. We need to find somebody who's into this stuff and and this guy's a little too weird to bring on this guy but but ah, people must see a difference between the stepsister Step Mom trope and the actual sister actual mom trope right.
  • [26:27] Keith: Yeah I mean it occurs to me that if it's not your own family like why would you care if the 2 people having sex are related. Yeah I just don't find it? No I I understand that I mean this forum is impressive and it's.
  • [26:35] Mike: They appear to because it's a popular category. No no. But I'm saying when you say why would you? you're saying why would you care if they're related if they're not genetically related I agree but then it's like why does that category exist on Pornhub and why is it so popular. Why is the steps.
  • [26:51] Keith: I Don't know it must be something about it feels taboo or something but there's other ways to yeah I don't know I don't know is the short answer. Do you have any insight.
  • [26:54] Mike: You know? Yeah, okay. Yeah.
  • [27:05] Mike: Okay, the actual incest I don't I don't This is like I mean most fetish type things I can sort of like understand a lot most fetishes honestly are like submission domination like there's some basic trends there this one like I don't maybe maybe it's just because the person who likes it was molested. Maybe it's just that and so then like their brain broke somehow from this traumatic experience. But I Just yeah, it's deeply perplexing but I will say that like some of the pictures on here are these pictures. Legal I Assume they're legal assuming they're so taken by you know, consensually.
  • [27:24] Keith: Maybe yeah.
  • [27:34] Keith: Ah I'm not sure it might vary by location to um, most of these pictures aren't showing penetration. So yeah.
  • [27:43] Mike: Right? I mean I have noticed forums before correct I've seen forms before for photos taken at like nudist resorts or whatever newest stuff and and you wonder about consent on those like I'm just being realistic. There's probably is not.
  • [27:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [28:02] Mike: Full consent and of course when you see parents and kids then you immediately wonder about the age of the kids. So that's not great. Yeah, we're not encouraging that. So.
  • [28:04] Keith: Yeah, right? Yeah I mean obviously child porn is illegal. Yeah, okay, can we move on police. Okay, ah I.
  • [28:15] Mike: Yes.
  • [28:22] Keith: Normally don't read the daily sexual achievement thread on the sex subreddit. But I did today and there were a couple actually there were 3 things here that I think all 3 will spur interesting conversations. So all this first and says me a 20 year old male and my girlfriend 19 year old female have been dating for over 2 years now. We didn't have sex until about four or five months into our relationship. We started off very vanilla and slow because both of us were virgins and actually both of our first relationships as well. I've always been the more adventurous one when it comes to sex and I solely got her out of her shell and for but and for about the past six months or so. We've been having amazing sex and last night instead of having sex. We. Both sat next to each other on the bed and mutually masturbated the other for the first time ever until we both came at the same time. It was just the greatest feeling ever watching each other like that and I've never heard my girlfriend scream like that it was very hot immediately after she gave me a little smirk.
  • [29:11] Mike: 3
  • [29:15] Keith: Immediately after she gave me a little smirk and said I don't know why we didn't do that sooner that was amazing. So it's safe to say this will be on the menu in the future. Ah.
  • [29:25] Mike: I Got some problems with this go ahead and yeah.
  • [29:28] Keith: Well yeah I mean ah all right? Can we table the the obvious thing here which is like she might be pretending but like why do people like why do people like what is compelling about Mutual masturbation.
  • [29:45] Mike: Okay, okay, yeah I guess we can go that angle. Um, let's see what's compelling about it. Ah probably um, it's probably a combination of the fact that like.
  • [29:48] Keith: It's it's less messy. Yeah.
  • [30:02] Mike: Like say like certain sex positions. You can like look each other in the eye so you can be sort of face to face. Okay, and like what you're doing is fundamentally more dexterous than just like Penetrative Pi V right? because you're able to yeah, you're youre youre.
  • [30:07] Keith: Aha.
  • [30:20] Mike: You're doing something where you have more control and also I could see for the woman being compelling in this yeah you're you're both in control right? So so the woman given that in most penetrative sex positions. The woman is the passive partner not all obviously yes, ah she's more in control there.
  • [30:34] Keith: Receiver. Yeah.
  • [30:39] Mike: And so I think like I so I implicit in your question is like some sort of you're basically viewing it as not compelling like I think it could be compelling conceptually.
  • [30:47] Keith: Okay, all right first off ah vocabulary is mutual masturbation I am digitally penetrating or stimulating her and she's digitally stimulating me. Or can it or does it also include just masturbating in front of each other.
  • [31:07] Mike: I Think it could include both and and and by the way I should point out that I was taking this person's post literally in terms of like they were didn't they didn the person say that they were facing each other. Yeah I think that's the less common. Next.
  • [31:16] Keith: Yeah, we both sat next to each other on the bed and mutually masturbated.
  • [31:23] Mike: Okay, next to each other so you can have your yeah so when if they were facing each other would actually be like kind of difficult to do with your hands. Um, yeah, okay so there's sort of so they I don't know there's there's there's another like dimension there that's kind of like interesting in that like ah your I think it's somewhere.
  • [31:25] Keith: Oh that's hard. You could like what.
  • [31:41] Mike: Yeah, basically you're positioning your body so it's as if you're masturbating. It's on yeah, it's relatively unusual for a woman to masturbate a man in a way a man masturbates and similarly vice versa I Guess so there's something compelling there. But yeah.
  • [31:50] Keith: Um, isn't mutual masturbation like the 69 of hand jobs like don't you want to have don't you want to not be worrying about your partner.
  • [32:01] Mike: Yeah I mean that's so yeah, so yeah, so conceptually, it's it's interesting from a practical standpoint you immediately are going to have like some sort of issue with the fact that your arms have to cross right? and so I guess the man's arm would be under the woman's arm. Because like his doesn't have to move up and down as much but the real issue you're going to have is that the woman is not going to be able to. So Yeah I mean there's various elements of skepticism I have here like typically a woman would not be able to get a guy to orgasm in this doing this. Um, her would be more more challenging. Um, and. Yeah I mean so so it's yeah I think I think what you said is right? like yes, it is the 69 of hand jobs like it's not actually that compelling. Yes, it's it's compelling conceptually. However, yeah.
  • [32:43] Keith: It's just it's inferior to just receiving. When so this guy sounds geek to that. It's on the menu in the future. Why like in in what what would the situation need to be to say you want to do this instead of have penetrative sex.
  • [32:54] Mike: Flip flip.
  • [33:05] Mike: Look it sounds really compelling I know I know you said you want to talk about this but it sounds really compelling to me from a dominant males perspective because it's like look this is great like.
  • [33:07] Keith: Or a blowjob.
  • [33:17] Mike: So woman beats you off while you get to play with her genitals and then she's going to have a fake screaming orgasm at the end while you nut that sounds pretty cool.
  • [33:24] Keith: But yeah I love it would It was fine until like it was it was it was borderline believable that Dey said he'd never heard her girlfriend scream like that. It's like oh okay and see what's going on here right.
  • [33:28] Mike: So.
  • [33:33] Mike: Yes, she was screaming because her forearm was getting tired and she just wanted to fucking orgasm. She's like God Damn do this hurts? Well yeah, probably is yeah like the.
  • [33:43] Keith: She's in Agony right? I always think back to that post we read months ago where this guy was like my girlfriend had never orgasmed so I told her that I wasn't going to stop until she orgasmed at this time and then miraculous and then miraculously 7 minutes later ship.
  • [33:55] Mike: So.
  • [34:01] Keith: Shitter first orgasm but it's like um I don't think what you think happened happened.
  • [34:02] Mike: Yeah, yeah, but and by the way one thing I Want to say another thing I Want to point out like there's some assumption that people have that ah women just have bad dexterity. Not very strong forearms. Whatever it is the reason why it's hard for a woman to beat off a guy in most positions is because it's. Gay men have the same issue I've researched this. It's difficult. It's difficult because it's not ah, it's maladroit to have to you the way men beat off like our arms and elbows and stuff are really well-designed for that action. Actually it's really nice like our bodies were designed like.
  • [34:23] Keith: Um.
  • [34:37] Mike: Like honestly when I think of the intelligent designer of the universe 1 of the things I thank him for is ah giving us arms exactly the right length to beat off. Yeah.
  • [34:42] Keith: Is ah I don't think there was an adaptive benefit there. But I do agree right? right? right? right.
  • [34:51] Mike: Of course, not that's how you know that's how you know it was an intelligent creator.
  • [34:59] Keith: That's that interaction how it's going there but but but I'll I'll table it because it's funny. Okay, all right here's the next one. Ah for a while now I 73 year old female was usually the one who initiated sex with my hubby 76 year old male and he went along with it but I had a feeling he would not have done anything if I hadn't pushed him. He was never one to be very romantic when it comes to sex last night I like she used the past tense like he's dead last night I tried a bit of reverse psychology on him unbeknowns to him and when I went to bed I decided not to touch him at all when he got into bed and said and good night I didn't touch him at all just turned over and went to sleep during the night.
  • [35:22] Mike: So so.
  • [35:37] Keith: Woke up to feed the cats and visit the John this is so romantic then came back to bed and I waited wasn't long before he reached for me and that was that it was a wonderful night. Ah.
  • [35:50] Mike: Yeah I mean ah being elderly wait awaits us all those of us who do not die younger. Yeah, it's brutal.
  • [35:56] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I just thought it was interesting reading about is it Sepagenarian is that how you say it people in their seventy s.
  • [36:06] Mike: Yeah I wouldn't have thought I wouldn't have thought the woman would I would think that at that age I guess I Just don't know. Um, yeah, hard to say.
  • [36:18] Keith: I Just don't understand how in there decades long relationship. She had never tried not touch account like this. Yeah I don't know I'm not sure I believe this also her writing is weird and annoying. Ah I don't think.
  • [36:33] Mike: Someone just ah trolling or for up votes.
  • [36:38] Keith: But it's I mean it reads like it's somebody old writing it. It's just I don't know it's It's bad storytelling I guess. Okay, yeah, and I think I will not it all right? This person says I'm trying to okay I'm just skimming it So I can remember why wanted to bring this one up. Okay.
  • [36:44] Mike: Ah, you should tell her that.
  • [36:57] Keith: Yeah, okay here we go I male 24 discovered a new kink that I've become quite consumed by after seeing an idea from an older Reddit post. Oh yeah, you're you're going to love this Mike My girlfriend 24 year old female and myself are both able to come very easily. My issue is she can go multiple rounds but I tend to be done after I finish. Because of this I tend to not be able to enjoy the sex as much as I struggle my heart is not to come I get most of my pleasure from getting her off. So I want to be able to last longer to let her come multiple times recently I got the idea from a viral Reddit post to buy a strap on and to fuck my girlfriend with it. It seems like an odd idea at first but I decided to give it a try and I'm happy I did as it's been incredible as we discovered how interested we both were in this I've started purchasing bigger and bigger dildos to see the biggest you could handlela and joy I'm above average length that six point five inches inch at 6 he wrote inches twice but average girth.
  • [37:40] Mike: Oh no.
  • [37:52] Keith: Now we have a seven point five Inch dildo with more girth than me and oh my god it is so satisfying having her face down and just railing her as long as I want as she comes over and over a record was making her come 7 times in 1 session the noise she makes taking a big toy so hot and I love giving her that pleasure.
  • [38:01] Mike: She says. Oh I feel so bad for.
  • [38:11] Keith: Feel if the dilda was smaller than me I wouldn't enjoy it as much because maximizing her pleasure is what I love about it wanted to air this out because I can't really talk to anyone about it. Maybe this can convince people to try something new.
  • [38:15] Mike: I love.
  • [38:23] Mike: I'd love to you're the female can I can I do the female version of this post? Yes, so my you know I love my boyfriend I don't remember if they're married a boyfriend. Ah he has a really you know he's good in bed. You know he really attentive to me. Um, but. 1 annoying thing is he expects me to have multiple orgasms all the time. So a lot of times I fake sometimes all of the orgasms that I have and ah but recently you know he has a normal size penis but recently he got into his head that he's not big enough and so he got a strap on and he attaches it just to. Above his penis to his torso and likes to have sex with me. Ah and then ah for half an hour and and now he's expecting me to have more orgasms the larger the penises and I can handle it but it gets kind of boring because after I've sort of like mentally ah you know, reorganized my ah.
  • [39:01] Keith: For half an hour
  • [39:15] Mike: Calendar for the first 20 minutes of him doing this I just get kind of bored any suggestions.
  • [39:19] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean I don't understand this is this like both sides of this seem unpleasant I mean presumably presumably when he's doing this. He's already orgasmed right? So like his arousal.
  • [39:29] Mike: Ah, yes.
  • [39:37] Keith: And and he talks about how it takes him what he says he's done after the orgasm so he's not aroused. He's you know, deep in the ah.
  • [39:43] Mike: It's such a great troll though. It's It's a great troll as a man like can you imagine like you're you're with a woman like like some significant percentage of the time when the woman is sort of like women have these behaviors to kind of go to man onto Orgasm and part of what's going on is they're they're done. They want it. They want the session to end like they're.
  • [39:54] Keith: So. Right? Yeah, they like tap you on your butt cheek. Let's go.
  • [40:00] Mike: You know it's fine there. They likes kind of kind of there's an element of that and so I just love the idea that then you're like no no and you like pull from be be but beneath your mattress like this this gigantic blue strap on you like now is the beginning of the real stuff.
  • [40:10] Keith: Right? I mean he specifically says he specifically says that ah he's gotten bigger and bigger dildo so that implies at least 3 and yeah, it's this is like you know he goes past the the seven inch one pass the 7 at a quarter age now he's at seven and a half inch
  • [40:20] Mike: Bright.
  • [40:30] Keith: But like why how could this possibly be compelling like he has already come and now he's like strapping this thing on and he says he's he really enjoys giving her that pleasure but like was he not able to do that with his fingers or his mouth.
  • [40:42] Mike: Now this is this is what awaits this is really the end game that awaits women who fake orgasm this is it. This is this is where you're gonna wind up because no, he's doing it because he thinks that she.
  • [40:52] Keith: Right.
  • [40:56] Mike: Is really orgasming again and again and again and that the larger the fake penis the more she orgasms and like he just doesn't It's not impossible that she's having orgasms some of the time via Pi Iv I'm not saying that's impossible. It's just that like I don't think that it's common for a woman to have a linear relationship between orgasms and.
  • [41:06] Keith: Oh.
  • [41:15] Mike: Penis length or Girth like this like if he switched it out for a smaller one. She wouldn't know the right number of orgasms to have quote unquote you know what? I mean he's like oh but that was the that was the five inch 1 right she wouldn't be sure because she doesn't actually know like if you go for something really large. She'll be able to eat like she could tell you large medium small but she's not gonna be able to differentiate his six and a half inch penis
  • [41:20] Keith: Right? She'd be confused right.
  • [41:34] Mike: Well, she can tell up I'm sure a real human from a you know that's obvious from a dildo. But if you had a six and a half inch stilldo and a seven point two five Inch dildo this would be interesting I've never seen a woman try to do this. Ah.
  • [41:37] Keith: Yeah.
  • [41:48] Mike: If there's a woman who'd like to try. Maybe we could get 1 of our listeners to try this I really we'd have to buy them. That's the problem I don't want to buy a bunch of dildos I guess I could be kind of weird but I just don't think yeah, but then I mean realistically you have to have somebody present that inserts them maybe through a glory hall.
  • [41:54] Keith: I Think would be worth it for science In this case.
  • [42:05] Mike: Okay I was just imagining. Yeah, um.
  • [42:06] Keith: You're right? This is logistically difficult I feel like the Killer line here is this guy says I feel if the dilda was smaller than me I wouldn't enjoy it much because maximizing her pleasure is what I love about it like he's just so deeply confused. It's it's ah.
  • [42:18] Mike: Yeah, yeah I mean look maybe it's not I mean there probably is a woman out there where this would be the pattern of experience but the odds are just so strongly skewed against that toward the ah version that I gave. Yeah.
  • [42:24] Keith: Indicting.
  • [42:30] Keith: Right? No right? Ockham's razor here is that yeah people are not communicating their needs. Okay, well that was the I know that was the daily sexual achievement thread. Ah okay, here's a here's a short and sweet one. How.
  • [42:39] Mike: The poor What the poor woman.
  • [42:46] Mike: That's good.
  • [42:50] Keith: Can he tell that if I was a virgin I sent a pussy pick to a guy and he said that I definitely look like a virgin I'm just confused because I've read that you can't actually tell if someone was a virgin just by looking at their vagina. Okay, so obviously she's a moron was there ever a time in your life Mike where you were this dumb like vis-a-vis sex.
  • [42:55] Mike: Hey.
  • [43:09] Mike: I mean too. We fair.
  • [43:09] Keith: Like I think I knew that you couldn't tell that someone was a virgin when I was 11 or something.
  • [43:16] Mike: To be fair like if the picture of her if in the picture she was young enough then you could tell it would just have to be a child so we're assuming that from an adult picture of a person. You can't tell.
  • [43:29] Keith: Ah, who that is a dark joke I like it though. Ah yeah I mean have you seen deciding if I should.
  • [43:38] Mike: You could. You could have count. You could have counter dark joked by saying something like well even a child. You could have been molested etc. So there's terrible things. But no I mean like generally so you know can you tell of course not was I ever this stupid.
  • [43:44] Keith: Right? right? right? right? right? yes.
  • [43:52] Mike: Um, probably I mean there's probably some age where like you just lack any knowledge of how female anatomy works and like you might have encountered um, something that that ah that suggested that you know this? Yeah I mean yeah, so probably probably the answer is probably but it would have been like under 15 years old for sure.
  • [44:11] Keith: There's a there's a ah porn studio called defloration and they're Eastern European and they're on. Um, they're on porn hub and the basic shtick is they get. It's all in.
  • [44:15] Mike: Um.
  • [44:26] Keith: Some eastern european language I'm not I'm not sure which one but the the girl comes in and you know they interview her a little bit and she's you know, really nervous and demure and all that and then I think the trope is she gets to pick one of their porn stars so she can pick which one and then he comes in and he like puts her hand on her. Back and you know they they talk a little bit more and then they did right right? right? They do they do this. They do this anatomical part where they get like an Hd camera and you know she.
  • [44:45] Mike: Which she's not allowed to importantly, she's not allowed to pick no one but go on.
  • [45:01] Keith: You know, pulls her lips apart and I think well I know she's trying to show her hymen. Ah but I don't know if as we've discussed on this show ah time and time again by my anatomy is not great I can't even see what I'm supposed to be looking for.
  • [45:06] Mike: Okay.
  • [45:20] Keith: And they're like I don't know what a hyman looks like um but they always do that and then you know in in the subtitles. It says like oh very nice there. It is you know and then they move on to.
  • [45:27] Mike: There is so I mean there I've never seen this site. It's that's congratulations for having um ah found a area of the Porn cavern that I haven't looked at but um, it is you know I mean I I do know that it's medically possible for a.
  • [45:38] Keith: Yeah, so.
  • [45:46] Mike: Girl or woman to have a pretty extensive Hyman they like covers you know So in other words, there could be a structure in there that like is pretty like you'd look at and be like oh that's there's no way a penis has been in there like that's that's not impossible. Um I would have no idea I was looking at either and it but it does strike me that like.
  • [46:01] Keith: Yeah.
  • [46:04] Mike: If There was enough money of it on the table like you could go find a woman or a girl I Guess a woman very young woman presumably who had this type of situation with her vagina and then pair a lot of money to deflower her right? like that doesn't that strikes me as at least possible right? because I know medically speaking there are some girls who are Born. You know or whatever where where it's very clear that they have that nothing's been in there so and and I could absolutely.. There's no doubt in my mind that they're men that would pay some extraordinary amount of money to have access to that for what reason I'm not sure but well mental illness obviously. But yeah.
  • [46:27] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [46:36] Keith: Yeah, I'm looking on Wikipedia now that there was some pictures if you go to http://wikipedia/hyman
  • [46:43] Mike: I Know there's a condition. There's a condition called Imperforit Hyman I think where a girl like like you actually like she can't when she has her period. There's It's actually dangerous if that makes sense like it's it's completely covered and so then yeah, there's like a surgery you have to do to like fix it right.
  • [46:53] Keith: Oh it, It keeps things in or something. Um I think there are surgeries you can get to repair it to. Ah.
  • [47:02] Mike: Um, ah sure that makes sense look you could have like something some analog to a breast implant put in you could have a permanent condom installed like a rubber piece that's in there. There's all kinds of things you could do I mean it's It's nonsense. Of course.
  • [47:14] Keith: Yeah, yeah, none none of these are good ideas where we're back to dispensing non-medical advice here.
  • [47:21] Mike: Right? No, it's a terrible idea I mean you should leave the design the way it is.
  • [47:25] Keith: I Just don't understand how this woman cannot know that that's not a thing like when her but when her boyfriend what did she say was her boyfriend I can remember who she said it was some guy she sexed told her that she looked like a virgin.
  • [47:32] Mike: Ah.
  • [47:41] Mike: I I'm not that surprise mean yeah, we yes the thing that confuses you about that as a modern man and it should confuse you is like anything that can be quickly googled like why does it the person just quickly Google it and this is something that perplexes me about sort of.
  • [47:54] Keith: Yes, yes.
  • [48:00] Mike: General society and all I can think is like there's an Iq level below which like that doesn't occur to some people to like check.
  • [48:03] Keith: Um, but they but they have a Reddit account and find the sex subreddit. It's just such a weird like Google isn't some esoteric website that no one's heard of.
  • [48:15] Mike: It's true. You could ask, you could ask like how how did this happen How how how did you manage to get here and post this and not just check like and why are you asked right? It's like it's like why would you value like weird social knowledge transfer over just just searching online and finding a reputable source but I mean like.
  • [48:21] Keith: Good right.
  • [48:32] Mike: It's like people who are ignorant of the scientific method right? These are people who don't understand like there are people in the world that just don't understand like more and less authoritative sources that just that concept eludes them so and and and and of course the most authoritative source on all sexual topics is the your mileage may vary podcast. You know.
  • [48:38] Keith: Right? right.
  • [48:48] Keith: Right? Ah yeah, our listeners are obviously excluded from this deplorable group. Okay, this person says ah my girlfriend wants to do only fans I told her if she did I'd leave her am I an ass.
  • [48:51] Mike: We only tell the truth. Yes, well they have so much information as listeners.
  • [49:06] Keith: Feel like an asshole for this I probably should but I feel like it's fair for me to say no she clearly she's clearly not happy with my answer but is agreed not to do it should I feel bad for saying no I just feel like my family and friends would eventually find out and that just become a mess.
  • [49:20] Mike: The first thing I thought of immediately there was like I thought to myself. Oh I wonder how attractive she is because because the fact that yeah, that's just just so women know like that's the first thing a guy thinks there now I saw on ah that same subreddit that had the ama with the um.
  • [49:25] Keith: Yeah, that was my thought as well. Of course.
  • [49:38] Mike: The spanish prostitute or the one in spanish whatever she spoke english perfectly but whatever in Spain prostitute sex workers. What I'm supposed to call our sex worker. Um, there was another thing where people were talking about how and you you might know this as a sports aficionado that there's at least 1
  • [49:47] Keith: There you go.
  • [49:58] Mike: Nba player who married or is dating a woman where there's a bunch of like pictures or videos of her floating around just because she was a call girl of sex worker meaning she'd like you know and there were pictures like people had I guess either secretly or maybe with her knowledge like taking pictures of her blowing them during their.
  • [50:04] Keith: Okay, ah.
  • [50:17] Mike: Sex work encounters with her and that had did not dissuade a very high status man in the Nba from dating marrying I don't know the details I don't and don't remember are you aware of this particular man with this former sex worker. Okay, anyway, this makes me think of that because it's like.
  • [50:19] Keith: Aha.
  • [50:28] Keith: Now.
  • [50:35] Mike: Maybe the notion that people would even care that someone's not only fans like I'm not sure I guess the thing that bothers him is like she wants to do it at the same time as dating him. Maybe she just wants to contribute to the family finances. But societally if the fact that she did it in the past I don't I think has become less and less and less taboo and.
  • [50:46] Keith: Well, okay.
  • [50:55] Mike: You know Kim Kardashian is a case in point. Third third reference this show. Yeah, that way I can put her name in the title see and get us some more of that lovely ah search engine juice. Yes, ah, thanks.
  • [50:58] Keith: Um, yeah, wonderful if you oh there we go that seo. Yes, yes, yes, well played well playeded I don't I mean I don't know how old this person is and certainly. If I was dating someone and ah she was a famous like yeah I just don't care I'm forty one years old I don't care if people know that the person I'm dating is a sex worker. It's just not something that. Bothers me. But if I were like 19 or 22 or something I can imagine carrying back then but yeah, she should just tell him that anything that he's worried about is like 100 times worse for her and if she feels compelled to do it. She's presumably already decided that it's worth those. Those.
  • [51:53] Mike: So it wouldn't if you wouldn't mind like are you totally indifferent between a person you're in a relationship with being and not being a cam girl at the same time. You're totally indifferent.
  • [51:54] Keith: Downside risks and so yeah I just.
  • [52:04] Keith: Um, I think to a rounding error. Yes, yeah, the issue with ah yeah I Just I don't really feel I don't I don't feel jealousy the way most people do so Then. The only thing I worry about is. Ah, other people I know finding out and then judging me about it and I don't really care that much about that either. So I mean you know I would I prefer her not too sure, but like if if it's something she enjoys doing or or makes good money doing then you know why? not.
  • [52:30] Mike: Okay, hang on you feel it.
  • [52:39] Mike: What if you found out you have no jealousy your claim your claim is what if you found out that your girlfriend ah like is really really good at insinuating herself into like hollywood sets or music videos or concerts and just has blown a lot of celebrities and does it like once a month she's able to get. To a celebrity and blow him that wouldn't make you that wouldn't bother. You.
  • [53:01] Keith: Um, ah.
  • [53:04] Mike: I was just trying to make it as as bad as possible because it's a high status guy that she's she's and she's actually having a sex act with him that yeah I feel like most men would be bothered by that.
  • [53:07] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean the risk there is that she's going to find a situation that's better than me and then run to that or a situation that she thinks is better than me and and go to that and I.
  • [53:24] Mike: Um I don't you don't think the risk there is just like that like isn't there another element to this than just like a pure risk thing of like look like what's wrong with you that you're doing that and like what he like.
  • [53:26] Keith: And then.
  • [53:34] Keith: Oh presumably, she's doing it for some sort of financial gain. Yeah, like like if she's the type of person that's doing it because she's I don't know what they is fame Horrorre not okay, is it fame sex worker. No okay, it's it's the kind of person that's a groupie.
  • [53:39] Mike: Okay.
  • [53:46] Mike: Like a groupy a groupie.
  • [53:52] Keith: And really craves attention from celebrities that don't give a shit about them and is you know has that like rapidity and vanity that yeah wouldn't be interested in in them for those reasons. But if she's doing this for some compelling reason like she's trying to advance her career.
  • [54:04] Mike: Okay.
  • [54:12] Keith: And she's like yeah this this sucks but literally but I'm getting access to career opportunities that I wouldn't otherwise have I might I think I would sort of admire the hustle I mean you know women's sexuality is one of her like.
  • [54:22] Mike: Okay, so it's so to you it.
  • [54:28] Keith: Really powerful tools that they that they have over men and and leveraging that is is admirable in some ways.
  • [54:32] Mike: So I think we may have discussed this So so so yeah, it would depend on the rationale behind the only fans thing whether it's like hustling or whether it's like some sort of weird. Maybe I shouldn't say weird but some sort of yeah wanting to like wanting just wanting the admiration of lots of guys and something you would consider odd.
  • [54:40] Keith: She wants to be craving attention right? right.
  • [54:49] Mike: Ah, in in a similar vein. Let's say that you were dating I think I think we've discussed this before maybe not on the podcast. But if you were dating a woman who was like a corporate attorney or a businesswoman and like she's like look ah I can really up my game here if I just blow this guy this VpAFewTimes and like kind of. You know, lead him on and then I can get promoted or get this other job or whatever advance myself like you would also admire that even if you were dating her.
  • [55:14] Keith: I Think so yeah I think I'm pretty unusual in that regard. But yeah I think I would I would admire the puzzle.
  • [55:22] Mike: Okay.
  • [55:25] Keith: Would you not I mean like it's it's it's hard to abstract you've been married for so long. It's hard to even like imagine such a situation. But.
  • [55:34] Mike: Um, um, yeah, it'd be hard to introspect about that like yeah I think I think I would have a more traditional view on that and find it kind of like gross. Yeah I'd just be like really.
  • [55:47] Keith: I think I you know penetrative sex. Yeah, what blowjob I would feel I Just don't care about flow Jumps I don't care for them I don't care. Yeah I Just don't find them that that that much of a big deal. The penitr.
  • [55:57] Mike: Interesting.
  • [56:07] Keith: Penetrative Sex I think I would be sort of bummed but like I wouldn't yeah like there's just a cost for everything right? Like if you're if there is something you can do that you would rather not do but that can afford you some sort of massive gain then. You know you just make the calculation and decide whether it's worth doing or not and right.
  • [56:25] Mike: Yeah, this is like the thing where you would you would give a man a blowjob for a certain amount of money which was a show title a few episodes back. Okay, what could we we we we still have the the 1 topic left around the ah the man the man's auto sloppy seconds.
  • [56:34] Keith: Right? Yeah I Just don't.
  • [56:42] Keith: Ah, yeah I mean now I'm just not looking forward to this but all right all right here we go coming inside then sex again. Question Mark I'm not too sure if there's a specific term or something for this so wanted to discuss to see what it what it is because.
  • [56:44] Mike: We get to that one quickly. It's too long. Okay.
  • [56:55] Mike: Wolf.
  • [57:02] Keith: Whatever it is made me go crazy when I was having sex with my boyfriend the other night I really wanted him to come in me. He doesn't do it that often because just paranoid about getting pregnant but I usually don't mind him doing it closer to my period or where my periods do because I'm out of my fertile window and before anyone comes for me I know you can possibly get pregnant at any point so when he said he was close. I asked him to come in me which he obvious which obviously he was delighted with and came we ended up just lying there for about 30 minutes chatting and watching Tv I usually get up after sex and go to the bathroom but I didn't bother this time that's important then things escalated again and we started having sex with his previous come in me. First I didn't know if he would find this weird or whatever but he said it felt so good. Probably because my vagina had a mix of his come and mine then we had sex and I finished him off with a blowjob which is also excited because I got to clean up a lot of come.
  • [57:46] Mike: I.
  • [57:55] Keith: It's just something we hadn't done before but it's definitely something I'll try again. It felt extremely intimate and turned me on. Ah.
  • [58:00] Mike: Um, see so this so 1 thing that you can learn from this is that you know there's this thing men do that where they men are curious about ah their come. But then right when it comes out. Ah, they have the post-nut clarity so they don't want to interact with it. You see you can store it apparently in a vagina for a period of time and then once you're horny again. It's there. It's available. So like she didn't say this but like there's I'm immediately wondering like did he perform oral on her the second encounter she didn't say so um, yeah, and then she did.
  • [58:30] Keith: Ah I hope not.
  • [58:37] Mike: Managed to make this pretty revolting sounding with the excitement over cleaning up a bunch of come off of his cock. This is by the way this is like you don't you You do not enjoy it. Ah when there's a porn in a guy nuts on.
  • [58:41] Keith: And the a lot have come and a lot has 4 o's in it. So it was a lot.
  • [58:56] Mike: Let's say there's 2 women an m f f threesome and the guy nuts on the woman one woman and the other one cleans it up. You do not like that with her tongue after a delay.
  • [59:01] Keith: I mean I'm usually I don't hang around for the come shot cleanup usually in porns but to the extent that I might no I do not think I would enjoy Third ok there is something obviously submissive about doing that. Ah.
  • [59:07] Mike: Interesting.
  • [59:17] Mike: Yes.
  • [59:21] Keith: And but the thing is I'm so revolted by the porn stars come that? yeah I'm not revolted by the other girl cleaning it up like that's kind of cool but it's not compelling enough for me to hang around for it.
  • [59:35] Mike: Okay, but somehow the put it the the having it sort of basedted on this guy's cock from a second encounter that you you could imagine that in a porn right? I mean they could film it like kind of a single take they could film it. He comes he sits around for a while and then he you know. And then she cleans it up off of his cock because he stuck it back in like you could imagine such a thing that that that that grosses you out. Yeah.
  • [59:58] Keith: Yeah, semen generally grosses me out and so storing it in her I mean at least it doesn't get as cold as it gets when it's outside of the body and I have had this experience myself like ah I've had sex with someone and then had sex with them again.
  • [01:00:12] Mike: Wouldn't.
  • [01:00:17] Keith: While my first load is still inside them. But I don't think it's that different of a feeling. Ah.
  • [01:00:17] Mike: Oh do tell how how was that for you.
  • [01:00:24] Mike: Wait you with with and without them going to the bathroom I have not had that experience. Okay, so go on. It's not that different you thought maybe you don't you don't shoot a big enough load is that why.
  • [01:00:32] Keith: Yeah I mean um, most women have been I think trained that not going to the bathroom after having sex has a massively increased chance of of a urinary tract infection and so most people.
  • [01:00:45] Mike: Well also like it. Also when when they're like women. Also I think the major Okay yes, there's that but I think women also like have been trained in their lives to know that when there's a fluid in their vagina. It's coming out quickly. Well yeah from there from there.
  • [01:00:57] Keith: Yeah, it'll make a mess if you don't dispose of it.
  • [01:01:03] Mike: Menstrual Cycle they know about that and so like they're not excited about that typically and so I think it's somewhat atypical for this to happen.
  • [01:01:06] Keith: I I think I think women are just so excited to have a piece of me inside of them that sometimes they are willing to suffer a little bit of mess. But ah I think that aside yeah, it doesn't ok I Mean. You've had sex with someone while they're having their period presumably. Maybe you haven't so it feels a little bit different I think blood is a less um lubricative of fluid than whatever the lubrication that a woman produces is and so it feels a little bit different.
  • [01:01:27] Mike: Yes, yes I have.
  • [01:01:44] Keith: But the the gap between sex regular sex without a period and sex with a period is bigger than the gap between regular sex and sex with your own come in there because come is more of a lubricant than than blood is also yeah, like it just probably I don't remember the specifics exactly. But I think it just sort of like gets plunged out. By you. You know you getting back in there in fairly short order. Anyway.
  • [01:02:09] Mike: You don't remember though I mean because yeah I mean that that is 1 thing that is suggested by some scientists is that the shape of the glands of the male penis is ah is ah is a plunger. Ah but you don't.
  • [01:02:19] Keith: Penis had.
  • [01:02:23] Mike: Remember what? whether it actually that's I say it's a great question. It makes me wonder that also could help explain why? like in fact, like in some ways The fact that she had so much to clean off like God Bless her. She's basically confirming what the scientist say right? I mean he what happened there is he did it. He plunged his. Semen back out of her vagina and then put it in her mouth. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice I mean and of course the reason the reason for it to be a plunger is because the presumption would be.. It's someone else's semen that you're plunging out to replace with your own. Yeah.
  • [01:02:40] Keith: Potentially yeah I don't know it. Right? right? Yeah I Just generally find I don't like seeing it's is so yeah, disgusting to me.
  • [01:03:00] Mike: I like I like the I like the idea that the shape of my body that a part of my body is shaped the way it is because like fifty thousand years ago it facilitated like so that and facilitated that situation.
  • [01:03:11] Keith: Is it I mean is that confirmed I have heard this a number of times that like the man's penis plunges out. It has is shaped so that it can plunge out the previous persons Seaman. It's as if like this person you're you're fucking has had sex like you know, 8 times in a day and you want feel the. The the final one that sticks sure but I'm not sure if that happened in like small tribal villages enough for it to be adaptive. But maybe well if it is the case.
  • [01:03:31] Mike: That's what happens in the animal Kingdom now.
  • [01:03:39] Mike: I'm there's no way to know right? It would be a theory and it'd be very difficult to prove or disprove. But ah yeah.
  • [01:03:46] Keith: I Mean you could put in fake semen in a woman's vagina and run experiments right.
  • [01:03:48] Mike: Or you could just have this lady do it. You see she's done the experiment and there was a lot of semen. So I see it. It's a plunger plunger. Successful Yeah, that's it. That's it.
  • [01:03:55] Keith: Right? Okay I think we're done here if do you have anything else. You want to say about this? Okay, so that's a wrap on episode 57 thanks for listening email us at ymmvpod at http://gmail.com or tweet us at ymmvpod for $10 rate review us and we will catch you next time.