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Episode 58: Sex Schedules, Kink Asymmetries, Male Shaving, Initiating When A Partner Is Sleeping

Team YMMV | 3-17-2022 | 1:05:28

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How well does it work if one partner wants sex more frequently than the other, and they initiate a schedule for sex? I'm actually pretty sure this doesn't work so great in practice, but we discuss the practicalities and what it means for a relationship. It's mainly a full-employment system for couples therapists.

How much does your partner receiving pleasure from an act increase your interest in doing it? Does this extend all the way to pegging? Probably so, for some folks.

If a woman wants sex almost all the time, so much so that she can't stop herself from masturbating and becomes cross with her partner if he doesn't oblige, so much so that her deepest desire is to be some sort of human trampoline, is it wrong for him to stop being attracted to her?

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/58/big-one

We get a lot of our questions from the Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/58/sex-fruatration

https://ymmv.me/58/kink-delta

https://ymmv.me/58/shaving

https://ymmv.me/58/sleep-sex

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with a combination of straightforwardness penis jokes and deadpan delivery I've planned what I think will be a great show today with topics including asymmetry and partners's kinkiness asymmetry and pubic area shaving expectations. And initiating sex while your partner is sleeping and Keith my co-host is Mike hello Mike so yeah, I'll just do the normal intro stuff please rate and review the show. Please tell your friends and please contact us with any feedback or questions you may have for the show we pay.
  • [00:23] Mike: Hey there Keith.
  • [00:36] Keith: Ten whole dollars for any and all feedback received although negative feedback is the most useful to us because it's the most actionable and as a bonus it indulges is it indulges it indulges Mike's masochism okay that joke didn't work. We can be reached at ymmvpod on Twitter or at Ymmv Pod at http://gmail.com okay Mike you suggested before we were recording that you had something for patter.
  • [01:04] Mike: Yeah I have something to talk about first I just wanted to ah really quickly. We have ah lots of listeners around the globe but we have 1 consistent listener. We have 1 consistent listener from Reykjavik iceland that I wanted to ah shout out and ah and ah thank for listening to the show.
  • [01:15] Keith: How.
  • [01:23] Mike: Um, just notice it on our little map of listeners every time I thought I should believe ah we have yeah so it's a favorite destination and yeah, send us an email if you want to ask a question or ah, just just let you.
  • [01:25] Keith: Um, we've both been to Iceland right now.
  • [01:37] Keith: Or get $10
  • [01:40] Mike: Yeah, we're gonna do give a review make yourself known. Well yeah, it's always 1 lone dot on our map other areas we have lots more a lot fewer right now in certain parts of Eastern Europe than usual, hopefully that'll come back? Um, anyway, so yeah I ah wanted to bring up a topic. We talked last week about.
  • [01:48] Keith: And yeah.
  • [02:00] Mike: Somebody whose girlfriend wanted gave him the option between sort of a long edging process while watching a movie and um, a longer oral session after the movie you know, basically. Requiring a certain level of sex from him and this is sort of related and not necessarily the same people but a related topic ah of people where you have a libido libido asymmetry um, and it's it's interesting. Um, there's there's 2 topics actually that are interesting here. 1 is depending on the gender.
  • [02:24] Keith: Gap. Yeah.
  • [02:35] Mike: Genders and then the other one is like solving that by basically agreeing to some kind of schedule ah where you basically say okay, you know like Monday Wednesday Friday like whatever. Um, and I'm curious what your take is and okay, let me say 1 more thing about the gender disparity here like um when it's when the high. Libido partner is a man like there's certain social expectations of that right in the sense that like he maybe is he knows I think typically that like if he's sort of starts pressuring like that's not going to go well right? like it's going to actually reduce the receptivity of his partner. However.
  • [03:10] Keith: And right it the problem can get exacerbated by right? It would if 1 person is becoming increasingly desperate the other person increasingly pulls away.
  • [03:13] Mike: When it's a woman. Yep.
  • [03:23] Mike: Exactly because it just gets annoying right? It's like you know and and in particular men I think are socialized to know this is an issue right? because even in just sort of like a dating context or just like any sort of context that could become amorous with a woman like you know that like. Showing some signs of desperation or just too much Aggressiveness is going to trigger that kind of pulling away reflex and I think all men basically get socialized with this.. However.
  • [03:45] Keith: Yes, this is this is the whole negging concept or negging is an adjacent. Ah right play hard to get.
  • [03:52] Mike: Sure like you do the opposite. Basically you like so appear massively non desperate. But if it's a woman who is the one that wants more like it sort of unhinges that I'm actually sort of curious because I think you've been in this situation before like is that.
  • [04:02] Keith: Uninterested. Yeah.
  • [04:09] Keith: Yes I have.
  • [04:12] Mike: Is that right? like basically the woman can is free to to adopt like all kinds of kind of behaviors that a man would never adopt in this situation is that your take.
  • [04:21] Keith: Um I have for better or worse been in this situation where I was the lower libido partner I don't know if lower libido is the right word I was uninterested in sex with that specific person more but I was still masturbating plenty. So It's like. My sex drive with that person was lowered but my sex drive generally was not lowered.
  • [04:44] Mike: Yeah, there's probably like a ah better way to like say this right? It's not yeah, people always talk about like libido level. But that's not actually right? It's more like in between 2 people which one is the marginal person who says no and there's always going to be 1 partner who's the marginal person who tends to say no.
  • [04:55] Keith: Correct right? right? right? right? It's not 10 I mean in my experience and and just generally it's ninety some percent
  • [05:02] Mike: And a situation. Yeah.
  • [05:11] Keith: If not 100% 1 person saying no and the other person always trying to initiate. Okay, so your question is yeah where what sort of patterns emerged for my partners when this ah situation emerged.
  • [05:22] Mike: The question is I mean I think I think it's like ah right, It's obvious I think it should be obvious I mean we could go into it but I think listeners would find it kind of obvious and boring What the what the pattern is when it's the man who's cajoling I mean this is you would see this in any anywhere in pop culture like the things we just talked about. But if it's the opposite I think that's less Seen. And yeah, this is question of like what what level of Behavior. Do you get? Do you get women kind of being gentlemanly about it like a man hopefully would or generally would or is do you get kind of behaviors where it's like Wow I would never do this as a man.
  • [05:48] Keith: No.
  • [05:56] Keith: Right? Yeah I mean women have an array of sort of almost cliche excuses right? they're they have to get up early for work or whatever they they have a headache. There's various typical ah anti-sex defense mechanisms they erect. To you know, cool things off. Ah I have been in a situation where my partner tried to implement a calendar and so.
  • [06:33] Mike: Um, well tell describe the calendar first.
  • [06:34] Keith: But ah so it started with you know implorations that I should initiate more and look.. It's not that I didn't want to initiate more Well it is that I didn't want to initiate more., But it's not that I didn't want to not want to to initiate more like I I wasn't thrilled with the with the situation that was developing myself. Ah but she was just like look I'm not going to have a sexless relationship here. So you know.
  • [06:56] Mike: Right.
  • [07:12] Keith: She suggested things like going to therapy and I was like no because I was worried what would happen at Therapy like you know the therapist would be like well you know why aren't you initiating and then I'd have to say things like because I don't want to have sex with this person and like that just didn't. Seem likely to go anywhere. Useful. Ah.
  • [07:31] Mike: Because like the they would say well do you not want to have sex at all. Do you want to have sex with someone else and you'd have to admit that it was either your hand or someone else right? That was more attractive to you right.
  • [07:39] Keith: Right? It wasn't that I didn't want to have sex it was that I didn't want to have sex with this person who I Otherwise you know really cared for and I Just don't There may be some techniques that people can employ when this situation emerges. But I didn't think I was going to get those techniques from Couples Therapy I thought I would have to go out and read about it and you know maybe give up porn and masturbating that's sort apropo of our conversation last week or whatever I mean.
  • [07:58] Mike: Right.
  • [08:08] Mike: Yikes yeah.
  • [08:10] Keith: There were there were various things that like I could try or research but I didn't want to do it in a public setting with my girlfriend in a therapist incentivized to support her in any case. Ah she was like ok well then how about we commit to. You know twice a week or once a week
  • [08:27] Mike: There There's something you threw off there that was actually ah a really interesting line. You said a therapist incentivized to support her which I take to mean I mean maybe our listeners would like sort of ignore that but I take that to mean that like you just assume and I think I don't know if this is true or not but it's certainly certainly something that men hear.
  • [08:31] Keith: Okay, yes.
  • [08:46] Mike: Have not been in couples therapy before but that like basically when you go into couples therapy like there's an assumption is that is that what you're sort of saying the like there's yeah.
  • [08:52] Keith: Well I mean before we go into like the total totally ah cynical approach here I mean the reality is they know who butters their bread. It's normally the woman like the man is not usually the person that is saying hey let's go to couples therapy and so.
  • [09:04] Mike: Okay. Okay.
  • [09:11] Keith: The person you're trying to ah please in order to continue like to continue them showing up and paying $150 a session or whatever the heck it is these days is is the lady and so I just think that their incentives are to support them and then. Yeah I mean I I've I'm trying to think if I've ever been to couples therapy I think I did once in my like mid 20 s we went to 1 session and then we broke up but it wasn't because the session it was just we needed to break up and no amount of therapy was going to sort that out. Ah. But yeah I think normally the grievances on surface level appear to be more caused by the man and I think particularly with therapists they are. Encouraged to sort of toe. The I don't know if the right word here is woke but there's some sort of consensus social ah socially and culturally accepted ah way that people are supposed to behave and if you're diverging from that. You're the one that's wrong. Even though if the culture and you know sociology around something is is not quite exactly right? You'll be considered wrong because that's just how therapy works. Anyway, we're getting off topic here. Something.
  • [10:40] Mike: Well yeah, just one thing I wanted I wanted to say there though. Also I think that like the the thing that the guy wants often is very simple and so it's like the and so I don't you don't really need therapy. It's like look ah you're like hey I want to have sex with someone that different from you and so it's like that's not that's not really a thing to therapy about me the way you can't.
  • [10:48] Keith: Right.
  • [10:57] Keith: That's right.
  • [11:00] Mike: I'm not sure. There's you know it's like so so there's not there's in other words, there's much more to talk about with sort of a concern that's more likely brought by a female. So I think this part it's I think that's related to what you were saying but anyway like tell us so this get that? Yeah sure.
  • [11:10] Keith: What there could I mean find all right? you you said 1 more thing and now I'm going to say 1 more thing too. But yeah, there could be a set of things that a man can do or a person who's feeling less sexually interested in their partner. It could be man or female. There may be a set of things they can do that can help. Address that issue I'm not sure exactly what they are and I have done some research into this um probably giving up porn and masturbating can help. But even those feel like band-aids unlikely to fix the root problem which I'm not quite.
  • [11:42] Mike: You could wear an oculus quest to device during the sexual encounter right.
  • [11:47] Keith: Right? You can simulate not having sex with your actual partner. You could actually not have sex with your actual partner and I was sex with someone else. But anyway okay, all right, we're done continue. Yeah yeah, initially and then it waned to once a week
  • [11:54] Mike: Right? Well, what's the schedule then so what was that you were saying twice a week.
  • [12:07] Keith: And man I mean it just wasn't great I mean it was like this perfunctory obligation. Oh bad I Really hope she never listen this.
  • [12:16] Mike: So it was no solution that was no solution like it it it it ah that that that just like you you were irritated by it. You felt like you had this obligation. Ah right I mean am I yeah describing it.
  • [12:28] Keith: It was worse than that it was emasculating right? like I didn't want to not want to have sex with my partner I just didn't.
  • [12:34] Mike: Ooh. Okay, but you could mechanically do it. It wasn't that and it was just like but it it was emasculating in the sense that you felt like your um getting to choose when and how it happens was taken away is that.
  • [12:39] Keith: Yeah I could I could.
  • [12:53] Keith: Yeah, and I not being able to express my sexual desires and having them co-opted into this weird calendar setup was not great and to be fair like. I Appreciate her point of view on this which is like look I'm not going to have like a sexless relationship and if you want we can go to Couples Therapy or if you want you're welcome to do some your own research and I just didn't and that was laziness and probably related to some depression I was going through at the time on my part but. And maybe we needed to break up for other reasons too. But ah yeah, like she's not crazy to say look I require you to have sex with me once week now look can you imagine if the gender roles were reversed like everyone would be like that's outrageous if you don't have sex with your with your man. You don't have to. But in this case I I particularly empathetic and and sympathetic to what this person was asking of me. She was like look either figure out a way to fix this or we're doing the calendar.
  • [14:02] Mike: Right? And so you said it dwindled from 2 to 1 and then one to 0 or did you break up what it was 1
  • [14:07] Keith: I think it went from one to like point seven five or point five. It was like you know, semi weekly or biweekly I can't remember which expression semi. Okay, yeah.
  • [14:19] Mike: Semi Semiweekly yeah and then you bailed right? Okay, ah okay, yeah, yeah, mutual mutual breakup that makes sense. So maybe yeah.
  • [14:26] Keith: We bailed we bailed on each other. It was a mutual breakup but it wasn't yeah the the breakup itself was not I mean certainly that wasn't helping I think that having sex with your partner can actually paper over a lot of problems like it in. Even even for someone like you it causes some non-zero amount of emotional bonding and being in a go ahead? Yeah well the yeah, let me just finish my thought being in a relationship that's completely sexless is not the state that things are supposed to be in at least before you turn 60 years old
  • [14:52] Mike: Is it? Yeah is it sure. Sure sure and so one other thing though is so there was There's this other aspect which is like the sort of like constrained set of behaviors that a guy could have like have you experienced have you had a woman setting aside this this the schedule thing like have you had a woman like just like. I Don't know I mean do things that basically as a man you would never do in terms of like insisting demanding ah guilting like just various like kind of having like nervous breakdowns around this in front of you like like you have to you know.
  • [15:29] Keith: Well I think that I don't know about their nervous breakdown thing. Although maybe I was going to say all those things you listed are things that men men do like they ah employ various coercion techniques that can get increasingly aggressive. In fact I have some topics about this later which you didn't know about but we'll dovetail nicely into this.
  • [15:40] Mike: Huh.
  • [15:47] Mike: Okay.
  • [15:49] Keith: But yeah I think coercion is basically the only tool that the person who wants more sex can use and to the point we made earlier coercion can actually make the problem worse because yeah, there's there's like a paradox that.
  • [16:02] Mike: Right.
  • [16:07] Keith: Gets hard to shake free of but and you know the particular mechanisms of coercion that women use are ah probably a little bit different for men but it's it's still all coercion.
  • [16:18] Mike: All right? Yeah, no, it's true that I haven't ah I Just don't have much experience with these various coerive techniques either direction. So I don't Ah yeah, it makes sense when you're now that you're saying at least maybe men do do the same thing. It's just I would think of that as somewhat.
  • [16:25] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [16:34] Mike: It seems to me that a woman's coercion could be more unhinged than a man's because of the sort of connotations of a man coercing right? being kind of weirder. Um I mean but yeah to be fair like I've watched the show married with children as much as anyone and so that show appears to show a coercive woman right? Yeah, it's.
  • [16:41] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [16:49] Keith: Yes.
  • [16:53] Mike: Part of the trope. So yeah I mean I guess that is a that is a thing. Yeah, all right? but.
  • [16:57] Keith: When did when did married with children. Go off the air wasn't it on the air for like 15 years or something or maybe it wasn't that long.
  • [17:02] Mike: I don't think so I think it would have been in the early 90 s but I'm not positive.
  • [17:06] Keith: It is 11 seasons. Ah.
  • [17:09] Mike: Oh 11 why didn't that's surprising. Ah yeah.
  • [17:13] Keith: Yeah, that's a lot and episode 1 was 1987 that show finished in the late ninety. s
  • [17:21] Mike: That's very surprising to me I would have thought like 92 or something. Yeah.
  • [17:23] Keith: Yeah, good good old Bundy family. Um, yeah, anyway, did you have anything else on this topic you wanted to to talk about. Okay, you have a pornography for us to analyze.
  • [17:26] Mike: Yeah.
  • [17:31] Mike: No, it's let's move on to the next thing here. Oh yes, yes, so we can put this this will be in the show notes. So I noticed that. Ah. Actually be the one we published two weeks ago quite a few clicks. So I know that sort of like if we tease it better it was it was the 1 from two weeks ago people can go back and listen if they missed that episode where there's a just a gigantic dildo that the woman's using right? and that one. Yeah.
  • [17:55] Keith: Right? This this schemaar.
  • [18:02] Mike: Number of the viewers wanted our listeners rather wanted to also be viewers. So this this quit this will link will be in the show notes. And yeah we can I think I think we can. We just see how the beginning of this one goes I think we can probably just start good. Maybe we should start.
  • [18:12] Keith: Okay I haven't clicked it yet.
  • [18:20] Mike: Just to avoid. There's like some text at the beginning we can start like 10 seconds in and so put yourself at 10 seconds and then we can you can count it down and we can watch maybe 30 seconds of it together and I can narrate it.
  • [18:23] Keith: Okay.
  • [18:30] Keith: I'm moving to all right I have my sound on I have okay I'm ready all right you ready all right 3 2 1 starting at 10 seconds
  • [18:34] Mike: All right? Yes, So it's a woman kind of close in on her vagina with her hands kind of spreading it. And it all is sort of normal. She's naked except she's got her shirt kind of pulled up so you can see her breasts but the thing that's most notable here is her clit is not the size that I'm accustomed to.. It's much much much larger to the point where like she's.
  • [18:56] Keith: Oh wow.
  • [19:01] Mike: Fondling it in the way that you could imagine a man with a very small penis would do. She's sort of rubbing it back and forth Now she's stopped touching it and you get a kind of facial view of it. Um, she's also saying things like suck me which is kind of strange. Okay I think we should pause here.
  • [19:03] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [19:14] Keith: Okay, all right? Yeah, it does Wow It's very evocative of a penis. No, it's not you know.
  • [19:23] Mike: Yeah, is that attractive to you So is it repulsive.
  • [19:34] Keith: Talked about this a little bit in the past mostly with respect to labia size. But for better or worse and look I will tolerate tolerates. Not even the right word I would I'm totally willing to accept women who have large labia even though I would prefer them to have innies.
  • [19:52] Mike: Okay.
  • [19:54] Keith: Ah, this boy. Yeah, this is this is this is something something else. Altogether I mean I don't know what size her clit is when it's not engorged but presumably most of the times I'd ever be interacting with it. It would be engorged and so it's always going to. Sort of look like this right.
  • [20:12] Mike: So why don't we let's just just just to see a little another little fun part of it. Why don't you jump to 4 minutes and 15 seconds into it if you could do that quickly and yeah, you do.
  • [20:19] Keith: I Don't know if I want to but I but okay, okay.
  • [20:24] Mike: So she's using a vibrator on it and the first thing you'll notice even at the freeze frame there. So ah, we don't have to play a clo quite yet. But you'll notice that with the vibrators. we' pushing down on it. It actually you can't see it it's it 5 4 15 it doesn't look like there's anything out of the ordinary there. Okay so why don't we all count down 3 to 1 play. So she's rubbing the thing and you'll find that she's pushing it in.
  • [20:28] Keith: Ah. And that's true.
  • [20:42] Keith: Yeah, ah I see it. That's a real orgasm or a real a real faked orgasm anyway.
  • [20:44] Mike: So obviously can be sort of pushed now she appears to be orgasm. You note the vaginal contractions there and you sort of slightly expect semen to come out right and now notice how she sort of like puts the vibrator just on the head of it. Yeah, it's like putting the.
  • [20:58] Keith: Yeah, she's very sensitive now. Yeah.
  • [21:01] Mike: Like putting the cap on a man that's going to be ah, electrocuted on an electric chair her her vibrators got a little cap on it that sort of perfectly cups it. Okay, we can pause again. Yeah I Really recommend that the listeners check this out. It's ah not.
  • [21:07] Keith: It does.
  • [21:16] Mike: And you see every day so you're saying like if you were with a woman you'd want would you want ah advanced warning of this before you entered into the sexual Realm Realm with her. Okay.
  • [21:23] Keith: I Don't think so I think if I had advanced warning I would just think it can't be that big right? And even if even if they were like even if I saw a picture I think I'd still be look.
  • [21:30] Mike: How big could it be right.
  • [21:39] Keith: I' a red bloododed man right? Like if there's opportunity to have sex with a new vagina I'm normally going to take it unless there's something outrageous going on it is but ah I'd I'd roll my sleeves up and get to work here.
  • [21:45] Mike: This is pretty outrageous but it's it would It's still you could work with it right? I think that like there could be some interesting element of like so here is a a situation where like. Something interesting could happen in a PiV situation right? I mean maybe it's easier for her to orgasm and PiV than for other women because it's so large. Um, but on the other hand.. Ah yeah I mean it's so large that you might actually be turned off by feeling like it's a little almost like an ftm.
  • [22:07] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [22:19] Keith: Yeah, it's mannish.
  • [22:20] Mike: Transsexual experience right? Okay, this is not a porn you would masturbate to.
  • [22:25] Keith: No, but it is a porn that I am intellectually intrigued by for science. Yeah is.
  • [22:30] Mike: Okay, got it. Yeah I don't know if this is naturally possible or whether this is the consequence of hormones that's something I Just don't know like yeah.
  • [22:43] Keith: I'm not sure either I mean I'm looking at the other thumbnails on this you know the previews for view more and they're all related to women with huge klits and like a lot of these look really penis like so I don't know if these are. Female to male transsexuals or what well's okay, some of them are probably actually big klits and probably some of them are ftm trans.
  • [23:06] Mike: Well on some level.. There's an a different I mean I realize you're ah the person that you that the the the listener we have that sometimes messages you about our specifics of anatomical understanding will probably say something like well all growth of that organ is hormonal which is True. So it's you're just distinguishing between artificial and natural I mean there could be a woman who for whatever reason has naturally more hormone hormone levels at the right time that causes more growth there right? no.
  • [23:28] Keith: No no, don't ftm well okay, first off has this now become a meme your anatomical expertise greatly exceeds mine but doesn't ftm isn't there ftm surgery female to male trans surgery.
  • [23:45] Mike: Yeah, but I think I think that that largely involves Yes here I am the the ah female Anatomy Genius at work I'm just an amateur. Ah but ah, it's like what he doesn't need to know that information. Why does he have it. It's like I don't know man and this is just what I do.
  • [23:47] Keith: But people can get.
  • [24:00] Keith: Right.
  • [24:04] Mike: Ah, so ah I think it mostly involves removal of the female organs and sort of closing everything up I'm not sure you can really build much of a a new nove nova penis I think they would call it. But 1 thing I would say is that like well the very famous example is the professional wrestler China.
  • [24:12] Keith: A poll.
  • [24:22] Mike: Obviously had taken some kind of steroids or something like that and had a gigantic clit that you can find this? Yeah well it's in there's there's videos on like Pornhub I think if I remember correctly.
  • [24:25] Keith: Um, wait oh she was in Playboy or something right? Playboy goes to like assiduous lengths to not show the clit too. So I hate they do? Yeah, they.
  • [24:38] Mike: You think so. Ah, you you think there's a you think there's a clit specific taboo in society.
  • [24:43] Keith: They'll show like yeah pay attention penthouse will show the clit Hustler of course will. No I think that Playboy thinks or thought I I mean look for a while over like and I don't know if this is before after Hugh Hefner died but for a while member play boy didn't have nudity I don't know if I think they're back to having nudity but there was like a year and a half where he didn't even do nuity. Any.
  • [25:04] Mike: Right.
  • [25:10] Keith: Nudity anymore. But they've always been sort of puritanical about the nudity that they do show. It's like massively airbrushed you don't really see much labia and or or klit Clitz Clit Clitoris Sigh Clitoris is so.
  • [25:20] Mike: Right.
  • [25:26] Mike: I'm not sure a clitoris is I think the sure. But yeah I just was imagining like I mean just like people can sort of like have fun with the rules around toplessness. They can just like wear pasties on their nipples I could imagine a world maybe in the near future where women can just put a pasty on their clit.
  • [25:37] Keith: Um.
  • [25:44] Mike: And then be naked. Other than that I always it is it is.
  • [25:44] Keith: I mean that's what we're going toward right? like everybody under the age of 30 is increasingly showing more and more their belly although high wasistted pants. There was a there was a time and like I think it was the early two thousand s when like low wasisted pants were really in.
  • [25:55] Mike: It's yeah.
  • [26:02] Keith: And high-waisted pants are in now I think I preferred the low-waisted era.
  • [26:02] Mike: That's right. Look ah as soon as um, Apple comes out with their ah augmented reality glasses device I'm certain that one of the somehow or maybe it's you know whoever comes out with the one that's got the most features someone will come out with an app for it which we'll be able to disrobe.
  • [26:18] Keith: Apple.
  • [26:24] Mike: You'll just be able to walk around and all the women are naked and don. You can use some sort of like ah Ai process to come up with a plausible way. They look naked based on their appearance clothed which yeah match skin tone and so forth and so then people will just walk around looking at all the women naked the entire time.
  • [26:38] Keith: I Agree that's coming although seeing Yeah I mean I guess certain people have different preferences like I like small imperfections and other people would like basically anime appearing people but you could tune. Yep.
  • [26:41] Mike: Yes.
  • [26:53] Mike: An Ai could absolutely dial up and down exactly. Yeah yeah, you'd say oh I I want to have like 5 imperfections per lady and then like you could actually have fun looking for them. But the thing is like I mean yeah if that's what you if that's your gig right? It doesn't.
  • [26:58] Keith: You could tune your Ai.
  • [27:04] Keith: You could train the algorithm over time.
  • [27:09] Mike: Yeah, on some level doesn't matter if they wear clothes or not because they're all naked. Actually yeah for sure. Yes.
  • [27:11] Keith: Yeah, all right. We should move on because we're 27 minutes in and I previewed three topics. We'll see if we get to all 3 ah okay, this one's a little bit I'm a little hesitant to talk about this because this has some. Sort of ickiness to it. Ah this is posted today. So it's fresh off the press all right? This person says my husband who is a 27 year old male is frustrated with me 23 year old female over sex I'm really kind of at a loss here. My husband and I have been married for four years so she got married when she was 19.
  • [27:33] Mike: Good.
  • [27:48] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [27:49] Keith: Recently, he's been sexualizing me a lot and pushing me to do things that I've specifically said I'm not comfortable with that I get no satisfaction from and that I can do it but to please stop saying that I should enjoy it mostly him going down on me so this so that was the thing that like first made this a little bit intriguing to me because. I'm sure he would be happy to stop going down on her would probably be happy to stop going down on her mostly him going down on me blowjobs and butt stuff yesterday told him that the sex was rough and that it chafed me pretty bad. He told me that was fine. We wouldn't have sex for a few days. Feeling awful with a headache and upset stomach and didn't leave bed yet throughout the entire day. He groped me even when I asked him to stop sexualizing me. He told me that I was starting to act like a wife who doesn't put out and that I don't do anything that he wants which hurt because I try to give him what he wants and usually we have sex at least once a day sometimes more because he likes.
  • [28:45] Mike: Out cheese.
  • [28:45] Keith: To edge and not come so I felt bad. Yeah so I felt bad and decided to let him have sex that this relationship is is great. You can tell it hurt and I really wasn't enjoying it all after 5 minutes I could tell he was dragging it out so I asked him that if he wanted to come then to please not drag it out and if you wanted to not to just stop. Give it a little longer and he didn't seem like he was going to come so I asked to get he gets off me and he's angry and he says that he didn't want to come but he didn't want to stop having sex and that he's frustrated by it and he has a right to be I can understand that being rushed in sex isn't the sexiest thing but I was in pain I told him it wasn't fair that I tried to solve this frustration. Thought that the polite thing to do would be to get off as soon as possible if you knew your partner was in pain by get off she means or get he should have orgasmed all he cares about though is the fact that I didn't let him have sex as long as he wanted when he didn't want to get off I'm really hurt about how little my feelings matter and how. Can he even think that he's justified am I wrong.
  • [29:41] Mike: I Like the notion I like the notion that ah that he's supposed to like I mean I could see a person having the mentality where the woman being in pain and obvious pain and like complaining makes him. Ah, orgasm that sounds to me like a rapist ah like the the the yeah it's like it rhymes certainly with that. But ah, but yeah I mean it's like look like once you've.
  • [29:57] Keith: Arouses him? Yeah yeah.
  • [30:06] Keith: Yep.
  • [30:07] Mike: And normally I think that once the woman basically expresses some sort of pain like that or real discomfort like the guy's just going to like lose his erection and not be excited anymore right? I mean he might have to go beat off later to sort of alleviate his ah empty empty the the vesicles but ah, that session's over.
  • [30:15] Keith: Right.
  • [30:21] Keith: Right? Yes, but short of having short of having a inflicting pain kink which some people have but most people when they're into s and M it's It's more like it's more performative. Right? Like you know, like when you slap someone's ass or whatever some people actually like having the skin broken and being physically hurt. But I think most people are more into like the performative aspects of that.
  • [30:41] Mike: Yes.
  • [30:52] Mike: Yeah, right? They don't like I think it'd be relatively unusual or certainly socially and somewhat unacceptable. Maybe totally unacceptable for somebody to say no what I actually want you to be in pain I Actually want you to be scared etc.
  • [31:06] Keith: Right? right.
  • [31:08] Mike: That's not like that's not yeah, right, it would be more like oh this is we're We're just playing even though like it's at a certain level. That's why people have things like safe words like I think if there was some safe word involved here. She would have uttered it a few times already. Um, and yeah I don't it's it's strange to me like that I don't really.
  • [31:19] Keith: Yeah I hope so.
  • [31:24] Mike: What's confusing to me about that. Yeah, it does relate to that topic we talked about earlier is like what happened in this guy's socializing that caused him to think that that's like a reasonable I mean maybe his parents had the same behavior I'm not sure you know where he's like oh no I'm going to insist.
  • [31:35] Keith: Yeah I mean there's ah, there's a number of things in the universe of possibilities here not to victim blame. But it's possible that she's not recounting how explicitly she told him to stop. She might have been embarrassed or afraid. To say something? Um, so that's that's 1 thing in the universe. But I that's right? Sorry yeah, that's obviously her obligation to to cause him orgasm. So let him edge for 2 hours and then orgasm whenever he wants to I will let me read 1 other. Ah.
  • [31:55] Mike: She might just not be considering how horny he was it just direct victim blaming. Yeah right right? That's right.
  • [32:13] Keith: Post here because I think it provides an interesting contrast and and it short this person says I'm super Kinky but my husband isn't I like so much dirty stuff and would love to explore my crazy fetishes but don't want to force it with him when he's only into vanilla sex sometimes I fantasize about meeting someone online just have crazy sex with are we doomed.
  • [32:30] Mike: Probably.
  • [32:32] Keith: Yeah I think the answer is is is probably I want to expand on that a little bit though. So in both of these 2 posts you have these huge asymmetries in the partners is kinkiness or at least desire to have sex and. I Don't know how you square those things I mean you could go to therapy people could do like various readings. But I think once you go down the Kinky Hill You can't climb back up it like you can't go back to not being intrigued by various kinks and. If You're not into it. Maybe you can you know if you really love your partner and you want to make them Happy. You might be willing to dip your toes in the water every once in a while. But if you don't enjoy it.. There's this gap there and yeah I don't know how you how you.
  • [33:28] Mike: It immense of course I mean going down the Kinky Hill doesn't mean that it like it's your favorite thing and absolutely necessary for you. But I take it to mean that What what you mean is basically if if you've realized that that's your thing right? and the other person says no then you're kind of like well I'm always going to want this thing. That's not possible.
  • [33:28] Keith: Level that seesaw.
  • [33:38] Keith: Sure, um.
  • [33:44] Keith: Um, yeah I mean and there's various examples here. We've talked about this on other episodes. But you know some some things are more I guess culturally and and socially accepted and maybe there's ah genetic reasons for this. But. Most couples I would say almost all couples engage in female giving to male oral sex most couples engage in male giving to female oral sex and so if if a woman is like oh I can never give my partner a blowjob that that would be considered by most to be sort of unreasonable. But then you have something sort of in the middle which is like anal sex right? So some couples have anal sex some never do and if a woman isn't willing to have anal sex. Some people would say that's unreasonable, but most people would be like that's no, That's your boundaries you're allowed to be that way and then you have like things that go. Much further down the Kinky things so you know there's like you know various ah physical harm or simulating physical harm. There's Degradation. There's cuckholding. There's you know, getting hung up by hooks. There's blood play right? So you could just keep going down the line and. You know if your partner's not into blood play. Almost everyone would say like well that's totally normal like too bad you you're just never going to get that itch scratched. But yeah I Just don't know on this sort of like spectrum of things that that that some people like that most people like that very few people Like. What's reasonable to expect from your partner and when you should cut Bait if they're not into the thing that that you insist on or that you would prefer to indulge in sorry that was a long screed.
  • [35:24] Mike: Yeah, well also like what how much is reasonable I mean you you by the way left out the woman. The woman who's so into anal sex that when you have a fight about something other than sex the way she reconnects to you mentally is thinking about those times you plunged your cock and your asshole and that does exist right? women that fetishize these things. Ah.
  • [35:41] Keith: Yeah.
  • [35:43] Mike: But yeah I mean like look like people just have to decide how much they care about that specific thing like I mean there's a yeah like yeah I mean it's a little hard for me like it must ebb and flow in these situations where people have a lot of kink because it's hard for me to imagine like I like 1 of the things I think about there is. If people have this sort of complicated thing that they need or want to have happen like it's complicated. They're expecting the other person to do this complicated thing again and again and again and again it's like you know, ultimately like the basic kind of in out experience is pretty simple. Um, and so so so it could It could be. It could be actually not just.
  • [36:13] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [36:20] Mike: Ah, question of like the person being grossed output by it. It could just be like look like I don't want to have to do something that takes 4 hours each time you know I have to tie this knod and then put this thing on the ceiling and just all this crap right? and you know that's that's an aspect too like people have to decide like do they want? you know what do they want to.
  • [36:25] Keith: Um, yeah, sure. Um I know but I think that's just another way of saying that there can be varying levels of enthusiasm.
  • [36:37] Mike: Prioritizing their life.
  • [36:45] Keith: For different activities right? So for the guy who's into bondage getting all that stuff set up is like part of the is part of the process right? like it. It turns him on just thinking about it going through the mechanical motions to get things set up and for the girls she's like oh my God I Just want to watch.
  • [36:46] Mike: Sure.
  • [37:03] Mike: Right? Yeah because she's getting nothing out of it except for maybe some part in the middle of it and maybe not even that because it might be so tiresome that like it's yeah, she's not aroused by the time. Yeah.
  • [37:04] Keith: Tv like do we have to go through this whole thing again right right.
  • [37:16] Keith: I know but sorry I'm going to bring this up again I mean I think that women get nothing out of blowjobs either right? but almost all women seem willing to do that and you know.
  • [37:24] Mike: Oh.
  • [37:32] Keith: When you ask them to report why they enjoy it. They'll say things like well I really enjoy feeling in control of giving my man pleasure. So what's wrong with subverting yourself to some sort of like elaborate bondage play submitting yourself.
  • [37:41] Mike: Um, it's not hang on. Oh ah, it makes more sense to me. Okay, so so if you're let's say you're a woman that's into sort of being submissive like that then it makes sense to me that you would. Enjoy that. In fact, I would actually assume the bondage play is more for the submissive person than the dominant person that would be my baseline assumption there. Um yeah, however, if it's just for the dominant person then yeah, like it's sort of irritating. Um, it could be irritating just because it's sort of boring and it takes a long time for the.
  • [38:02] Keith: Yeah, could be I Just don't know much about it.
  • [38:17] Mike: Purported submissive person. That's like I think that's like like that I feel like I can ideate around like if I were if somebody wanted to repeatedly tie me up in some sort of complicated way like I would just yeah I would not enjoy that because it would take a lot of time and it would I just be like look this is like a lot of effort to just sort of make me look foolish right? like that's all, you're doing.
  • [38:18] Keith: Okay.
  • [38:31] Keith: Ok, at least blowjobs are short and sweet.
  • [38:36] Mike: No The well. The other thing is that like there's a I don't It shouldn't be confusing to you Why they enjoy that it's you You actually know why they enjoy it on on a number of different levels. They yeah, it's because there's such a direct submissiveness to it right. It's like so directly and obviously submissive in the same way that like I understand why a woman while I don't find the arguments that it's physically that stimulating for a woman that compelling. Emotionally it makes perfect sense to me. Why Anal is is compelling because it's like yeah you're you're you're letting someone do this thing to you That's pretty.
  • [39:12] Keith: You're submitting but but so is so is letting your partner handcuff you and tie you up I say.
  • [39:13] Mike: Hardcore. Yes, yeah, but they're not handcuffing you with their cock right? The thing of the see it's more compelling if the thing that's being done to you you know and it's believable is directly giving pleasure to the other person like that's really important I think like it's the only way it can make sense to me like.
  • [39:27] Keith: Um, I mean it's important to you but maybe people who are into bondage you know can have have not tying orgasms I don't know.
  • [39:32] Mike: Ah, you could convince me the other ways. But yes.
  • [39:39] Mike: Ah, maybe I think it's more like the loss of control and stuff like that which I could see being compelling too. But like yeah like anything that's done where the other person's also taking pleasure in it in a very direct way is more compelling I mean like I read that I read a post within the last month where a guy was. He liked being pegged he liked being pegged and but what he really wanted was to find a pegging instrument a strapon that like had a cleverly or well-located vibrator. So the woman. But what he want look what he wanted was to have the experience and this made sense to me like intellectually what he wanted was to basically have the experience that a gay man has when he gets anal sex from another man in the sense that not only do you get whatever pleasure you get from like prostate stimulation or whatever it is not only do you get sort of like the psychological. Submission stimulation. You also are getting like you. You also are getting the fact that the other person is erotically getting pleasure out of it and he wanted that from the woman right? he wanted her to have that in like the whole it becomes problematic because it's difficult to build a device I guess that can.
  • [40:39] Keith: Oh.
  • [40:50] Mike: Maybe if you had a clit that was large like the porn we watched it'd be easier but typically I think you know you can't It's not like you can insert the clit into some device so that it's like stably held and so it's going to move around if you're thrusting and so it just doesn't work very well with the female um equipment.
  • [40:57] Keith: Yeah.
  • [41:04] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [41:07] Mike: Anyway, but that made like I saw that and I was reading the thread and I was like oh this makes sense to me like I understand what this guy wants like he he wants her to get off on doing this thing to him and that to me like I I find it confusing why that's not clear to you like why? like it's like yeah like doing this thing to you at the same time as their.
  • [41:13] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [41:24] Mike: Taking pleasure in it right? and they're connected like that to me seems like the most compelling form of like submissive play actually for me. Actually it's the like the only form of compelling. So so yeah, so what I would say actually here I'll say this very directly like I wasn't considering being peg when I read this. But.
  • [41:25] Keith: Yeah I suppose.
  • [41:44] Mike: If being pegged was like out of on a scale of 0 to 10 to me was like 0.3 interesting like if there was a device where the woman could get pleasure while she's doing it. It might go up to 0.5 like it would increase the interest level for me I'm still not going to do it but but like I'm like oh yeah, that's interesting now. Yeah.
  • [41:52] Keith: Um, sure I agree. Um yeah I I agree.
  • [42:02] Mike: And and and also I can see I can I can understand how like gay guys like do anal sex and don't use condoms and don't like they they want to like they want to participate in their partner's orgasm I get that. So so I think blows are the same anyway.
  • [42:13] Keith: Right? right? All right? Yeah, we don't need to relitigate that all right? Well there is more to say I mean there's plenty of directions. We can go with that topic. But I mean there's 2 more that I previewed I think we should move on all right? ah.
  • [42:20] Mike: Yes.
  • [42:26] Mike: Sure.
  • [42:33] Keith: Told a guy to shave if he wanted me to shave So. It's not a big deal but I have no problem with guys having hair in their downstairs area but I feel like guys should be comfortable with me also having hair in my downstairs area. So a week ago as texting a guy and we're planning to hook up over the weekend out of Nowhere. He said I wish her pussy to be completely hairless. Mind you it was out of Nowhere. So I thought it was a joke or something so I texted him back saying ll L Well I Want your dick and balls to be completely Hairless as well. When I sent that type.
  • [42:58] Mike: Um, that sounds I don't think it's it sounds kind of hot to me. Why's it got to be a joke but okay, go on.
  • [43:03] Keith: Um, him telling her that he wants her to be cleanly shaven.
  • [43:07] Mike: Yeah, like why isn't that kind of like just a hot dirty talk kind of thing to say like I wouldn't I don't I think that a very small minority of women in that situation would take that as a joke right? They'd be like oh this is dirty talk.
  • [43:12] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Yeah I Yeah I mean the way this person writes implies that they're somewhat young and yeah I mean I think the best possible reading of his text is something like well he was putting up a ah what? like ah a trial balloon. Of a little bit of ah dominant you know making a request and you know most women these days are ah fairly neat and trimmed down there anyway. So He may not have thought that this was a huge imposition but her reaction was to be put off by it.
  • [43:38] Mike: Yeah.
  • [43:56] Keith: Um, are let me continue so she said L O L Well I Want your dick and balls to be completely Hairless as well. When I sent that text I was hoping he would have got the joke but dude got so offended after I sent my text he texted back saying are you being dead as serious right Now. Do you know, not how hard it is. To shave for guys like I'm not trying to be sexist but shaving for girls is easy girls like you have it easy I was taken aback by his response I just laughed and I called him and we got into argument about shaving during the call such argument I was telling him if he wants me to shave he needs to shave as well and was telling me how hard it is and it's probably in her Grammar. And I'm really paving over a lot of grammatical errors here and it probably won't happen so I need to deal with that and so I told him Okay, then I'm not shaving either simple as that and he just started cussing me out calling me a stingy pitch and like Controlling. He kept calling me that until I hung up. So yeah.
  • [44:32] Mike: Sure.
  • [44:46] Mike: I Mean to be fair to be fair, she is a stingy bitch but go on. Yeah.
  • [44:52] Keith: What what? an outrageous she she won't even get it by a razor. Um, yeah, um.
  • [45:01] Mike: I mean he isn't wrong like it is it is ah I mean I think it's complicated for both genders. But I think it is I mean what? what do you? which do you I mean is that part of the topic here is like who who is it more complicated for.
  • [45:12] Keith: Um, I mean I dated a ah a european woman date. It's the right word I hung out with for a couple weeks. a a a russian woman a few years ago and she suggested to me that I shave everything. And I told her no and I also told her I didn't care what she did with her pubes. Um, she didn't know the word pubes because english wasn't her first language so we had to have a conversation about that. But um, she told me that.
  • [45:44] Mike: Sure.
  • [45:51] Keith: All of her partners shaved and then I started wondering is this like a common thing in Europe and well people like people putting their jug on camera is not a ah this bit of a sample bias there. Ah.
  • [45:56] Mike: On Chatterbait it is but I mean it's hard to know you know right.
  • [46:06] Mike: Yes.
  • [46:10] Keith: Yeah, obviously it's harder for men Obviously more whim. Um, well, it's easier to shave a plane than it is to shave a rugged landscape and I don't mean a plane by plane I mean women have less contours.
  • [46:11] Mike: Wait is that true. Why do you say? Obviously I mean say more about that.
  • [46:22] Mike: I Think you're going to get a lot of yeah.
  • [46:29] Keith: In their body. Not not yeah and men have ripples and bumps and protrusions.
  • [46:34] Mike: I don't is that right though I mean men like I I'm not sure to to to first order. Maybe that seems right I mean I mean the the largest bump that the man has does not actually have hair on it largely right? So I I guess you're talking about it shorty but you're mostly talking about his balls then or maybe the the ah.
  • [46:46] Keith: It does a little bit at the base of the shaft. But yes, not generally.
  • [46:54] Mike: Complicated area where the shaft meets the balls would be difficult.
  • [46:55] Keith: Yeah, and like underneath the balls and then like how do you flatten things out and then like the the thickness of the scrot scrotum skin scrotal scrotal skin is this skin related to this scrot up Gold Scrotal is that me adjective.
  • [47:06] Mike: I Think you could say either? Yes, oh for sure. Oh for sure. Yeah scrotal sack.
  • [47:15] Keith: Amazing. Okay, so um, yeah I mean it's just I think it's mechanically so significantly more difficult.
  • [47:22] Mike: Have you ever shaved a vulva. Yes, yeah I I have a suspicion that it's around the same complexity. Actually I think that I'm going to elicit some cheers from our 2 female listeners in saying that. But I think it's around the same because because like you'd say.
  • [47:26] Keith: Myself, no.
  • [47:32] Keith: Um, okay.
  • [47:39] Keith: Um, there's folds and stuff And yeah, yeah.
  • [47:42] Mike: Exactly and like at least with the man like you can pretty much have it all lay it out all out in front of you. It's true that your balls would be like I'm not sure how exactly men do this mechanically whether they do it in the shower or whether they like I'm imagining you could take your scrotal skin and sort of like stretch it over like ah a desk. So. It's stretched out flat and then and then shave it Well the point is yeah.
  • [48:02] Keith: Do you think good Be it. Do you think we'd be better to do after exercising after a men exercise their scrotum gets like really shrivelled because it pulls your bot your balls in towards your body. So like after a long run.
  • [48:12] Mike: Um I think I've read I think I've read the opposite that people suggest doing it in this in the in the shower actually. But yeah, but and I'm not like I've never I've never done this I have used a um tremer like a beard trimer or like scissors to sort of like trim but never like.
  • [48:19] Keith: Okay, when it's fully relaxed.
  • [48:26] Keith: Oh.
  • [48:32] Mike: Actually like oh I'm going to shave all of the hair off. Um I Just think anyway I think it's around the same level of difficulty and risk. Yeah.
  • [48:34] Keith: Um, i'm. Okay I need to respond to a few things here. Okay, the first is did you see that? Ah, it was a craigslist post. It was a best of Craigslist post about the guy who shaved his asshole. Okay, it's famous. Yeah, it's basically.
  • [48:49] Mike: Yes, of course is well known. Why don't you tell our listeners about it. Yes.
  • [48:56] Keith: I Mean the the the ultra short of it is a guy shaves his asshole and then writes a very colorful description of the experience of the hair growing back and just and it's super itchy and just he goes into he goes into considerable lengths to describe. Ah, just how.
  • [49:02] Mike: It itches. Yeah.
  • [49:16] Keith: Frustrating. It was the the reason why I bring it up is I'm mildly intellectually curious to see what it would feel like to shave everything but my experience with I haven't fully shaved my face in years and when my hair first starts coming back. It gets really itchy. And my experience reading that Craigslist post about the hair crowing back just that that's enough to Trump my mild intellectual curiosity into how it would feel if I was completely shaped.
  • [49:42] Mike: There's another aspect there which is like if you go to a gym as a man I mean I already have experienced this and you probably have 2 just from trimming when you go to the gym and you're say showering in the locker room and most men's showers. Don't don't have like stalls in in locker rooms at gyms like yeah I mean it's a like if you've really. Trimmed down there like people may notice that if you've completely removed all of the hair people are definitely going to notice that and then it's like like that's not like yeah I mean interestingly whereas like people usually would think of women as getting and I don't know what it's actually an interesting question in locker rooms If There's any sort of like female kind of.
  • [50:03] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [50:17] Keith: Judgment. Yeah.
  • [50:18] Mike: Glaring at each other that happens if there's something they can do exactly judgment I'm sure there is some but this is there isn't much for men but this is an example of an area where the other they're absolutely going to assume that you're some like weird I shouldn't say weird. You're some outside the mainstream like gay Bull Dom or something because you shaved your balls right.
  • [50:34] Keith: Yeah, yes.
  • [50:37] Mike: And so there's going to be some assumption that you're sexually not mainstream and like you may have people edging away from you or something. Yeah.
  • [50:41] Keith: Yeah I mean I was going to ask you well? Okay I I have 2 more things I would have copy talk about all right? So you said that ah women's anatomy parts can make things shaving things a little bit tricky itself.
  • [50:57] Mike: Oh for sure.
  • [51:00] Keith: Here's here's my my thoughts on that some women grow hair around and inside of their outer labia more than others. So I think for some women, It's probably much more difficult than for others. It's just like some men have asshole hair and some men don't some women have asshole hair and some women don't.
  • [51:17] Mike: Right.
  • [51:19] Keith: I Think there's some differences I think that for almost all men shaving is quite complicated and for some females shaving is more complicated than others.
  • [51:27] Mike: I Think yeah, okay, but I mean like another thing to consider is like for a man if you if you um, were shaving like that you could you could decide whether to shave your taint or not right? That's a choice you could make for a woman. You don't have a choice like that's where the apparatus is.
  • [51:37] Keith: Right? right.
  • [51:44] Mike: So it's all going to be kind of Maladroit and down below in this weird way. But sure I mean there could be people that have an easier time of it for various reasons I don't know.
  • [51:51] Keith: Yeah I mean for me. Yeah, we wonder where to stop shaving like once you shave your penis is There's just like this wall beyond which you know all there's pubic hair again or do taper it or what do you even do? yeah.
  • [52:03] Mike: And it's hard to see in that area. It's right? Yeah I mean like the the whole thing becomes right and and like ah do you then have to shave your legs because otherwise you have leg hair that starts so women the women the answer would be yes, but for a man it's tricky right? So It's like Okay, so so. Right again a wall of hair just starts all of a sudden. It's like oh no I You know how do you pick where exactly the wall starts. Yeah.
  • [52:23] Keith: My dad tells this story. Ah, actually my mom tells this story so on my parents' wedding day. My mom came down the aisle and my dad didn't have a mustache for the first time since she'd known him and they'd known each other for 2 years or something. Ah. But the way my dad tells the story is you know? so you know he put his suit on and he was doing some finishing touches on you know, trimming his beard and and you know shaving around the beard and he kept trimming trimming trimming and eventually he accidentally had given himself sort of a hitler mustache and he's like. Oh my god and so he had to shape the whole thing and so yeah, but you know just apropos to you know you got to know you got to know when to draw the line. Ah.
  • [53:04] Mike: That's funny.
  • [53:09] Mike: Yeah, well, there's you know there's a fair number of photos of men from the early part of the twentieth century like that. They're not the most popular photos but it was it was actually a hairstyle back then so I'm not not suggesting your dad was ah getting married in the early part of the twentieth century I'm just saying like it's ah it used to be a valid ah mustache style. Yeah.
  • [53:17] Keith: It was yeah yeah.
  • [53:25] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah, pulling off the Hitler Bustache now would be pretty tricky. That's pretty closely associated with some terrible days. Um, yeah.
  • [53:29] Mike: Oh yeah, it's a tough 1
  • [53:37] Mike: I've actually never even considered doing that It's kind of funny. Yeah.
  • [53:41] Keith: Could you I mean you you struggle with facial hair generally.
  • [53:45] Mike: I'm not sure I could not sure I could but if I could it would be kind of funny briefly. Very briefly privately.
  • [53:47] Keith: Yeah, yeah, okay, so what 1 more thing on this hair thing. Ah okay, look It's not just the objective difficulty in shaving that is relevant here. There's also massive. Culturally accepted differences right? So like almost all young women are are pressured to have very neat and trimmed if not entirely shaved pubic hair. It's super common and almost no men are excluding. The men who were the ex-boyfriends of this woman that I dated in Europe if you were in a locker room and a locker room is sort of a weird place because in locker rooms some men are like really careful to like wear a towel and that you know they have some shame gay men in particular are.
  • [54:23] Mike: Right.
  • [54:42] Keith: Shameless in locker rooms and so locker rooms are not ah a super good sample but in a locker room. Yeah what percentage of men would you expect to have you know quote unquote full Bush versus what percentage of women.
  • [54:52] Mike: I mean well that was the point I was making I would expect for men I do expect it to be close to 100% maybe a little bit of trimming and for women I would expect it to be much more mixed you know more than yeah, right? Yes, yeah, the the the main yeah go ahead.
  • [54:57] Keith: Yes. It depends How young the crowd is probably like younger women are going to have less less pubic hair generally although Pubic hair is coming back. There's There's this like counterculture thing where young women are starting to embrace their pubic hair a bit more.
  • [55:15] Mike: The the main thing here like the main actual choice point here or decision point here in my opinion is practical. It doesn't like a man can very quickly and easily do something that basically makes it so that the hair just doesn't get in the way at all whereas for the woman.
  • [55:32] Keith: Um.
  • [55:35] Mike: Like it just is actually in the way like because of you know the orientation of the part and so if a woman does nothing like there are certain activities that are going to be pretty downright uncomfortable for the man and which isn't to say she has to shave completely. It's to say that like it is useful to sort of shorten the hair to like you know.
  • [55:39] Keith: Um.
  • [55:53] Keith: Um, yeah, yeah, there's a yeah, there's functionality differences here.
  • [55:55] Mike: Half an inch or less or something with which also doesn't take that long. Yeah, right? and then and then separately like if a woman wants to wear a bathing suit because of differences in the way male and female bathing suits work their design and so forth. You know she's already like kind of be in for some amount of hair removal. Ah, because women don't want to. So yeah, they don't want to have like half their pubic hair showing with a baby bathing suit on. So.
  • [56:20] Keith: Yep, And as yeah and as bathing suits get more and more elaborately revealing down there. That's become more and more important. Okay enough on Pubic air. Ah.
  • [56:28] Mike: That's right? yeah.
  • [56:33] Keith: This person says betrayed by my sleeping self. So I frequently said something to my boyfriend like you have my consent to wake me up with sex like have sex with me in my sleep and told him to seriously please do it. He laughs it off usually but the other day he finally tried apparently started eating me out but I pushed him away and was like no with my sleep. So now I'm annoyed with myself. For foiling my plans. This was just a convenient way to bring up. Ah, this particular kink that some people had I don't know if it's a kink this particular form of light free use that that some people have um how. This work mechanically. We we talked about this man. It must have been like episode 6 or something. It was a long time ago but we talked about how do you not wake up if someone tries to have sex with you.
  • [57:21] Mike: Yeah I don't think you I don't think you can not wake up I think I don't yeah I don't really understand. There's some sort of psychological thing here. There's something that the woman is finding compelling but like it's I think it's just like flatly uncompelling I.
  • [57:31] Keith: Aha.
  • [57:34] Keith: Um, I think yeah, the woman likes feeling that the man is so eager that he just can't stop himself like they like having that power over their partner I think.
  • [57:36] Mike: I find it hard even to theoretically come up with why this is compelling.
  • [57:49] Mike: Okay, I'm going to give a counter theory and we can judge which one we think is right I'm going to counter theory that she's terrified that if she's asleep and he's awake that he's going to either watch porn or masturbate thinking about someone else and it's self-defense. Yeah.
  • [57:51] Keith: Ah.
  • [58:09] Mike: Good 1 right.
  • [58:11] Keith: I Don't think look some women enjoy sex with their partners and it's not just an obligation or a duty or something they're doing for the good of their relationship look I.
  • [58:21] Mike: Oh no I agree with that I'm just saying like this doesn't make any sense otherwise to me like you're saying it's like I mean she's going to wake up. It's not like and you're saying oh he can't He's so eager he can't stop himself like anyway, go on. Yeah.
  • [58:30] Keith: Um, they like feeling desired.
  • [58:36] Mike: Yeah, but when you when you when you wake up like right? Let's say you've been sleeping for more than between between 3 and 7 hours so you're going to wake up tired like this isn't and you probably need to pee right? and you're going to be confused like I mean like sometimes when my alarm cloud goes off.
  • [58:45] Keith: Aha. Yeah morning breath all this stuff. Yeah.
  • [58:55] Mike: Like sometimes it's totally chill and which is odd because I'm sure everybody else has is sort of there's a common experience like my alarm clock's noise level doesn't change but sometimes when it goes off like it's pretty calm I wake Up. It's nice sometimes it goes off and it's like I I like bolt up right? like it's as if like ah, an alarm went off. And I don't know it has something to do with. You know it. It shocks me when it wakes up when it wakes me up and ah it has something to do with where I am in my sleep cycle.
  • [59:13] Keith: Yeah, hold on a second hold on a second so I haven't used an alarm clock in like 15 years the only time I have is if I have like a super early flight otherwise I don't use alarm clocks. Yeah I have a pretty good relationship with sleep.
  • [59:21] Mike: Program.
  • [59:28] Mike: That's because you wake up so early Naturally yeah.
  • [59:32] Keith: Ah, anyway I don't know why I felt that had to be said, that's right I cannot relate to that experience.
  • [59:36] Mike: It's good so you don't yes you you actually don't know you don't know what this is like but that's a normal thing and the main thing is yeah the main thing is like there are very differentancy so you don't really control what experience you're going to have when you wake up now that itself could be a kink. But I don't think it's a very good kink because it's sort of like hey they'd be like this kink you like hey I want you to have free use even if I have really bad diarrhea. You know what? I mean it's like it's like so so you so you know you know in the next two weeks let's say one of the days you'll have really bad diahea and you're like yeah.
  • [59:59] Keith: Ah, yeah.
  • [01:00:07] Mike: Like I still want you to free use me but you don't know which day it is the point being that it's like I don't think any I don't think that's a kink I don't think it's a kink or it's a really weird one for people to say like even though I'm in a situation where it's really not something I want to have happen. Do it anyway and some percentage of the time you're going to wake up from bed. That way and almost all the time you'll need to Pee. This is why like So I think about it I think to myself. No This is some sort of defensive thing. Not an offensive thing but all right.
  • [01:00:25] Keith: Yeah. Yeah I mean Diarrhea is a bad analogy there because what comes to mind or what what immediately came to my mind is like yeah why would they want to have you were trying to come up with another situation where you're just not really in the mood for Sex. It's not the diarrhea itself.
  • [01:00:45] Mike: Um I was trying to but but something you don't control like something where it's like it's like physical. It's not like oh I could be emotionally put in the mood. It's something where it's like just kind of categorical. It's like something really you know and and that can happen with sleep like you're just sometimes when you wake up.
  • [01:00:49] Keith: Right? right? right.
  • [01:01:02] Mike: Randomly in the night sometime you're just really exhausted and you're not going to want to do that like I don't care what you know kink you have you're you're going to forget it. You're going to have forgotten about the kink. What was what did you want to say about the diarrhea though were you trying to say that like the guy would never want that or something.
  • [01:01:10] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like why would I want to have sex if there's like risk of shit everywhere.
  • [01:01:20] Mike: Ah, because it's her kink. She's like look I Just you know I Love the risk I Love the risk that you'll plunge in and like a squirt of pooh will come out or something Well I mean what's well what's but or you're so horny for me that you're willing to go through. Ah, what is it? What is it? The guy at the end of the shosank reductiontion says he went through like a ah.
  • [01:01:26] Keith: Talk Christ I'm just.
  • [01:01:37] Keith: Your favorite movie.
  • [01:01:39] Mike: Pipe of shit a sewer full of turds. It's like that. It's like you're so aroused by me see this is why I don't think it's that I think it's this woman is neurotic and imagining him beating off to his ex and she's like fuck I can't allow that So this is my solution.
  • [01:01:53] Keith: Or pictures of her younger self.
  • [01:01:58] Mike: Pictures. Yeah, right? we discussed that before maybe maybe instead like the good compromise would be she just like look just beat off like just disrobe me and beat off to my naked sleeping body that actually is probably what girls should women should actually ask for right because that's probably what they actually want.
  • [01:02:10] Keith: Less evident. Well how does this even we got to wrap up here. But how does this even work mechanically like it would be difficult to have I mean I guess you could use Lube or something but she's not going to be wet or she's.
  • [01:02:25] Mike: Yeah, and she's just right? She's going to be what it you? Yeah, that's why I think that like whatever the kink like if it's whatever her goal is even if either you either no matter which of us is correct about this I think the better implementation here is what I said like like yeah and then she could say look when you're about to nut.
  • [01:02:28] Keith: Not likely to be wet.
  • [01:02:43] Mike: You can wake me up and nut in my mouth. So then she doesn't have to do very much. It's like okay goes back to sleep.
  • [01:02:46] Keith: Um, I Think what's going on is they like the notion that their partner is always wanting to have sex with them and being woken up to that reality is something that they. Are ah granting the gift of right like there's they're saying if if you are so compelled to have sex with me even though you know nothing sexy has happened. We've just woken up I Give you permission to wake me up to to meet that need.
  • [01:03:22] Mike: Yeah, this is one that like listeners would have to weigh in I Just disagree I think that women I think generally it's not that they don't want to. It's not that at all. It's not that they can't enjoy it. It's that like they just view it as like ah a truck they go out and start every every once in a while like they don't They're not sitting around thinking like oh how can I.
  • [01:03:25] Keith: Yeah, we need a poll.
  • [01:03:39] Mike: Even amp up more like they know he wants like anytime they hug he gets an erection or whatever you know what? I mean like anytime there's moderate play between them. He gets an erection like that's not I don't think that women usually have concern about that. Maybe she's like particularly unattractive and so she is concerned about that. That's ah, that's a fact we don't know. But yeah.
  • [01:03:54] Keith: Yeah, all right? Well, that's probably a good place to end if you if you want to let us know. Ah how you feel about being woken up for sex. You can email us at why. And mmvpod@gmail.com or you can find us on Twitter at Ymmvpod that's a wrap on episode. What episode is this fifty eight fifty eight rate and review us and we will catch you next time.
  • [01:04:17] Mike: 58 yeah