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Episode 6: Chaturbate, small things leading to breakups, odors, forbidding porn, kegels.

Team YMMV | 5-22-2018 | 1:05:43

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The YMMV gang talks about cam workers, troublesome smells, minor transgressions causing breakups, forbidding porn, vaginal muscles, and more.

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [0:21] Mike: Yes. So you had a woman who you were preparing to have sex with. Oh, got into the position and everything, and you notice that she had some toilet paper on her labia. Yeah, You You were so grossed out by that, You're just like it was like a Seinfeld opposite. You're like, I'm out of here. I can't I don't know. I don't know exactly how you know put out, but, you know, and no doubt of the entire relationship, I think
  • [0:24] Keith: e did. Yeah, she was. That was
  • [0:29] Keith: I often think back to fair
  • [0:37] Keith: through
  • [0:46] Keith: Hello, and welcome to your mileage may vary. Your mileage may vary is a show that takes an overly candid and hopefully entertaining look. It matters related to sex.
  • [0:55] Keith: Our general format here is to source sex topics today from Reddit our own personal experiences, listener e mails or tweets from friends wherever.
  • [1:00] Keith: And we then dissect them until we wrestled to the mat. What's really going on?
  • [1:07] Keith: This, of course, often leads to some troubled waters. So I'd like to apologize in advance for anything ignorant micro I may say today
  • [1:28] Keith: you can find us on Twitter at why am n. V pod you can email us at Why and the pod at gmail dot com. We have a Facebook page that can easily be found by searching the same. The biggest thing you could do to support the show, however, is to subscribe on whatever podcast half you prefer on iPhone. That's the podcasts F on android phones. I prefer podcast addict, but there are dozens.
  • [1:46] Keith: Okay, so on with the show Mike following up on a topic from last episode, we've found a mutual friend who claims to enjoy stimulating his Penis with a vibrator while masturbating. You said you thought that might be a thing that less than 1% of men enjoy. Does this information revives that estimate?
  • [1:49] Mike: Well, the claim was that it happened
  • [1:52] Mike: at least once in his life.
  • [1:57] Mike: And then I said, Well, did it do anything for you? And he said, Well, I came,
  • [2:01] Mike: But I'll be honest that I didn't, like, dig into it in any great depth. So I'm not totally sure
  • [2:03] Keith: eso
  • [2:06] Keith: the details here actually sort of important. Yeah,
  • [2:14] Mike: I mean, I guess what I would say is, like, I believe that there are people that, like have done it is part of their play, But
  • [2:21] Mike: I guess when I say 1% what I'm saying is like, I think that very, very few men find anything remotely
  • [2:23] Mike: eyes compelling about it as a woman would,
  • [2:25] Mike: right? Like it's totally non if
  • [2:37] Keith: the belly Yeah, that's definitely true. But for me, like it doesn't It's not like whether or not it's compelling it. For me, it would be like a negative, like having hard vibration on the tip of my Penis.
  • [2:39] Mike: Well, you haven't done it yet, so you're not sure?
  • [2:42] Keith: Sure, but I mean,
  • [2:47] Keith: there's some experiences you can imagine ends and project without actually having had had them.
  • [2:48] Keith: I'm not sure
  • [2:53] Mike: about that. I mean, do you think you could have imagined that the experience of having an orgasm before you first did?
  • [2:54] Keith: No,
  • [3:08] Keith: But I've had enough variety of sensations on my Penis that I feel like in this particular case, I can say I can't say with 100% authority, but I can say fairly, certainly that I would not enjoy it.
  • [3:15] Mike: Do you? Could you imagine the sensation of a vibrator on your prostate before the first time you were pegged?
  • [3:19] Keith: I've never been paid for a question trickling
  • [3:27] Keith: Henze. Like, how many times have you beat your wife? Um, okay, so, yeah. I don't know. Maybe we should have him on and he can describe.
  • [3:28] Keith: Yeah, well, what to think about
  • [3:40] Mike: that. Okay. The best thing for to do here is for you to go off and do it and then report. But you want him on because he actually had a positive experience. I think he's just gonna look, It was it was fine. He's not gonna say anything that interesting. I can ask him.
  • [3:44] Keith: I could commit to trying, I guess. Have you tried it already?
  • [3:49] Mike: Yeah. I told you, it doesn't do anything for me. It's just It would just be a waste of time. Like
  • [4:05] Keith: my apologies. Uh, yeah, I could try it, and then we could We could compare notes. Yeah, that could be an interesting segment. Okay. Did you know that why M. M v, your mileage may vary has, like, a colloquial pronunciation, and that is and, uh,
  • [4:08] Keith: u m b.
  • [4:12] Mike: I didn't know that. That's a pretty ugly sounding word. I don't I'm not a big fan.
  • [4:20] Keith: Yeah, I don't I don't love it either. But I was I was told that by a friend recently, and I thought that was sort of interesting.
  • [4:22] Mike: It's like Nim nim be, I guess not in
  • [4:23] Keith: my
  • [4:34] Keith: right. Right? Yeah. It does evoke a similar, I guess. Sounding thing s anyone you have, maybe l call it that going Purple Sea. Okay, Uh, did you spend some time on chatter bait this week?
  • [4:37] Mike: Why, yes, I did, Keith. Why do you ask?
  • [4:43] Keith: Well, I know that this has been a thing that sort of comes in and out of your life, where you go in chatter, bait and
  • [4:52] Keith: let's say, have conversations with some of the folks on there. That's right. It's Cheddar Bay. The thing that everyone knows, maybe we should describe what it is really quick.
  • [4:53] Mike: Would you like to, or do you want me to do it?
  • [4:55] Keith: I feel like you're the expert.
  • [5:31] Mike: All right. So chatter bait is the site like chatter, chatter, chat with her bait like masturbate on. And, uh, basically, you go on there. I mean, I think these are generally, like there's a series of them. They're called cam sites, and they have Cam guy's cam girls on their actually We've talked about this before. Ah, and you could basically watch them. And then the main reason they do it and they do like activities on there, whatever they masturbate. They have sex with each other. So it's like live porn and people give them tokens. And I think a token cost 10 cents, but they owned the site, gets half of it, and the performer gets half of it.
  • [5:40] Keith: They take a 50% cut. I think so. Yeah. Great. Great idea, right? Is it mostly solo? People are mostly couples.
  • [5:42] Keith: Um, yes. So it's sort of That's an interesting
  • [5:52] Mike: question. Um, I would say it's mostly solo. Ah, but But there are specific things. You see. For example, if you go into the couple's area, you always see
  • [5:57] Mike: groups of three and four people, and it's always in Venezuela or Columbia.
  • [6:05] Mike: Just doing these like crazy thing with groups. Three Z things with groups of three or four. Venezuela, like, makes sense to me because, like their economies and trouble
  • [6:06] Mike: Ah,
  • [6:08] Mike: I'm not sure what's going on in Colombia.
  • [6:12] Keith: Well, they're so close to each other. It's probably some cultural thing.
  • [6:22] Mike: Maybe I just assumed it was money related. Um, but then, yeah, there's a lot of single, and there's also a ah transsexual section, which I also check out from time to time.
  • [6:24] Mike: But you want to know what I was doing on there, right?
  • [6:26] Keith: I d'oh.
  • [6:35] Mike: So when I talked to when I go into a guy's room, what I like to try to do is to make him lose his erection by a trolling in the comments on that works. Sometimes
  • [6:38] Keith: their solo guys rooms on this Cheddar bay.
  • [6:51] Mike: Yeah, for gay or for transsexual, cause it's transsexual, by the way, is always 100% of the time. Eh? Female looking person with a Penis. It's never a male looking person with a vagina, right? That is that's not a thing anyone wants to see. Interestingly,
  • [7:21] Mike: Um, and then in the couple's or the single woman section, I just like to basically destroy the room through trolling to make it so the person gets no tips, no money at all. Sure, I had the good fortune to stumble upon a Russian woman who is broadcasting, and, uh, she didn't know how to boot me out of the room, and she actually then accidentally, maybe the moderator of the room, which was a terrible city boy. And she wasn't making a lot of money for that, like our that I was in there and had a pretty good time.
  • [7:25] Keith: Few. You American troll the Russian person?
  • [7:40] Mike: Yeah, Yeah, it was, you know, just basically going off on the various people in the room and, uh, asking her questions about what was going on in her video that she didn't really want to answer, like, you know, what's that thing on the wall? But, you know, lots of different. Just You just have to come up with stuff on the fly to make it no fun for anyone else. People
  • [7:43] Keith: doing generally before you were trolling her.
  • [7:52] Mike: What was she doing? I mean, I think she I think she was just sort of masturbating, fingering herself, kind of showing different body parts to the camera. The typical thing,
  • [7:54] Keith: at what rate did they get tips? This is
  • [8:02] Mike: interesting, So Oh, yeah, there's a couple things. One is that a really common thing is for them to get
  • [8:20] Mike: to set up little competitions where, like, for example, if someone tips, you know, 100 tokens, then they'll do you? No anal. We'll stick summing up there, but they do 200. Somebody gives 200 tokens. They'll I don't know. I have an orgasm. Of course, it's always fake, but they'll pretend Devon orgasm. Unless is a guy that it has. Presumably, it's really,
  • [8:46] Mike: um, and they also have things where if you tip, it's random. So it's like you're almost playing a game like you tip, and then maybe you get something and maybe you don't. That's a trick. Um, when then? Sorry. There's one of the really important thing, which is that a lot of the performance have these things jammed up there twat or up their ass. There's these little pink devices that vibrate, and when people tip money, these things will start vibrating and the women will act like it's really pleasuring them. Of course it's not. It's all just an act, which something I like.
  • [8:55] Keith: There's some a P I in the chatter bait interface that they can connect a device that is attached to them so that it vibrates when they get a tip.
  • [9:04] Mike: Yeah, I think it's I actually looked this up a little bit, and I think it's activated by sound, So I think the tipping sound actually causes it to turn on. Not totally
  • [9:06] Keith: sure it has a microphone.
  • [9:10] Keith: How does it have? Is the microphone
  • [9:12] Keith: here when it's inside them?
  • [9:27] Mike: Well, there's a part that protrudes out, but it beats me man like it's zm high tech stuff. Yeah, on but the but the But the important thing is like if you give them like a lot of tokens, it'll last for like, 30 seconds in the warm old. A woman will basically pretend as some sort of like a
  • [9:32] Mike: a fit on the floor rolling around because it's so intense. Of course, all just fake
  • [9:35] Keith: is this. Is this alluring to some of the guests in the room?
  • [9:41] Mike: Absolutely. In fact, they get angry when I start pointing. Most of my trolling behavior is just to point out that the woman's faking
  • [9:44] Keith: the absurdity of the whole setup. Yeah,
  • [9:48] Mike: and guys will start saying man like stopping or I'm losing my erection here.
  • [9:48] Mike: It'll be
  • [9:52] Keith: like, good. How many men are in these rooms? I think the
  • [9:55] Mike: one I was trolling had about 500.
  • [9:59] Mike: Oh, my gosh, Right. And just to give you a sense
  • [10:08] Mike: to our one female listener. You could make some good cash on this because many of the tips that were being given to this woman were 200 tokens or 100 tokens,
  • [10:11] Mike: which is, like, five or 10 bucks. And that would happen. Like repeatedly. So
  • [10:12] Keith: she was probably
  • [10:17] Mike: making a good 100 or 200 bucks an hour, huh? Or sorry. Her and her, her
  • [10:18] Keith: pimp,
  • [10:22] Keith: right, Well, and then half of it goes to chatter bait, and then half of it Probably goes to the
  • [10:25] Mike: lives already deducting out the have. I was saying five cents each. Yeah.
  • [10:26] Keith: Yeah.
  • [10:28] Keith: Huh?
  • [10:37] Keith: Yeah. I don't know if he's chatter about a little bit. Mostly when you like, send me a link to a room that you're trolling. Uh, yeah, That whole subculture is
  • [10:39] Keith: mostly just
  • [10:42] Keith: obscure to me, are you? I just don't know much about it.
  • [10:43] Keith: It doesn't
  • [10:49] Mike: actually hold any real allure for me because I prefer amateur content. And so this is definitely, like, not amateur, like the people.
  • [10:53] Keith: Well, it's amateur, but it's It's
  • [10:57] Keith: I don't know. It's it's fake that the fakeness of it bothers you.
  • [11:07] Mike: Yeah, I will say, though there are some people that don't accept tips, but they tend to be on the older side. Those people are amateurs. You just don't want to watch. They're exhibitionists. That's exactly the word they use,
  • [11:09] Keith: huh?
  • [11:12] Keith: They go on for free for a while, huh? It's
  • [11:17] Mike: like older people that want to be, like, check us out or whatever. Or, like swingers swingers or something.
  • [11:18] Keith: Um, there was there's a
  • [11:31] Mike: guy on there that used to go in there at least that had a fake Penis, and he would suck his own Penis. But it was, and it was maybe just masturbate, But his p claimed of, like, a 15 inch long cock, but it was clearly fake. You would get angry when people would point that out.
  • [11:34] Keith: What do you mean? Was it attached to his body? Yeah, it
  • [11:38] Mike: was a really well done fake, but it had to be fake because of size was just absurd.
  • [11:40] Keith: It was like a prosthetic.
  • [11:40] Keith: Yeah, he would
  • [11:46] Mike: ejaculated, too. I don't know how exactly he was doing it, but it was definitely fake, like there was no possible way. That was true.
  • [11:51] Keith: Why don't we get like Robert Mueller on that instead to figure out.
  • [11:56] Keith: You know what's going on? Staff gave important. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
  • [12:01] Keith: okay, uh, let's get on to it for stopping here. So, uh, let's see here.
  • [12:05] Keith: Uh, okay. I'm gonna do this. Porn bothers my girlfriend, but I really miss it.
  • [12:10] Keith: So, uh, this guy's account name is throw away. I miss porn.
  • [12:18] Keith: Porn bothers my girlfriend, but I really miss it. So for the past five months, I've stopped watching porn. I did this because my girlfriend has indirectly expressed
  • [12:45] Keith: that me watching porn would make her uncomfortable. Just pretty much said that it would make her feel really insecure. We've been together for over four years and do not live together for most of that time. I watch porn regularly and felt guilty about it for our relationship. She's never asked if I watch it. So it's not like she told me to stop. I just decided that it was time to do so. Honestly, I haven't encountered any benefits to quit quitting. Besides not feeling like I'm deceiving her now, I feel horny all the time, and I get very turned on by just looking at random women on the street. That didn't happen to me. before I quit.
  • [12:55] Keith: We have fairly vanilla sex about once a week. So porn kind of help me explore my own sexuality and explore myself. I really do miss it. But I feel bad hiding this from her, and I'm pretty sure she would feel insecure or sad if she found out.
  • [13:01] Keith: I don't know what to do. Read it. Should I watch porn behind her back? Talk to her. Just forget about it and keep going. So
  • [13:03] Keith: this post is like a little bit
  • [13:09] Keith: boring. But the general topic here is
  • [13:16] Keith: Gaelic. For starters, it's unclear if she even asked him not to watch porn. It's just he's afraid she might feel uncomfortable
  • [13:26] Keith: anyway. That doesn't matter. Lots of girlfriends sort of would like their boyfriends not to watch porn or explicitly asked them not to watch it. And that seems like a strange thing to do to me.
  • [13:38] Mike: Well, I think there's a couple topics here that are interesting. One is that, like he ultimately resolved to basically do know FAP. I don't have people do. Would you wanna explain to people that know FAP is, But I mean, I feel like that's basically where this guy's gone right?
  • [13:42] Keith: Well, no. Fat is a little bit different than no porn.
  • [13:46] Keith: He hasnt saying whether or not he's jerking off in the shower or whatever.
  • [13:49] Mike: Okay, that's true. That's true. I mean, you get the
  • [13:53] Keith: sense that specifically is you have no orgasms
  • [13:57] Keith: outside of sex, I think, actually, are they even allowed to have sex? I think they are.
  • [14:06] Mike: Yeah, the idea. But, I mean, I think that the idea, the principle behind no fap is that you will behave better or you will
  • [14:12] Mike: somehow integrate better with your significant other. Because you're not like in this sort of other relationship with your hand all the time.
  • [14:20] Keith: Yeah, sort of. Although there are two topics here, one is not watching porn, and one is not masturbating.
  • [14:21] Mike: Right?
  • [14:27] Mike: But I mean, like, you don't agree. I mean, for example, I think I mean, didn't you try doing no fat for a while?
  • [14:32] Mike: Actually, no. Masturbating and I did. What was the rationale behind that decision?
  • [14:38] Keith: Ah, I wanted to see if it made you have to change my behavior in any way.
  • [14:47] Mike: And specifically, I assume you were looking for a behavioral change which would make you more affectionate. more like, uh, maybe not affectionate. Maybe that's the wrong word. Maybe Maur
  • [14:53] Mike: grateful. More like, interested in your partner? Correct. It was just really interested.
  • [14:54] Keith: That was the impetus.
  • [14:56] Mike: Okay, So whether or not that was successful,
  • [15:04] Mike: I think that's a big part of the look. I mean, different strokes for different folks, as they say, but no strokes.
  • [15:14] Mike: But Thea, I think that's part of the impetus behind it is to like, change the behavior. And then you're right. There's a separate thing, which is you could go like the middle ground of just no porn. But I think the idea is kind of the same, right?
  • [15:26] Keith: Yeah, I think I think that not masturbating might create chemical and hormonal changes that are different than not watching porn.
  • [15:31] Mike: That's an interesting point. I have to think about that. Let me ask you this. Do you think that
  • [15:48] Mike: do you think that in your life eliminating porn would basically be the same? It's not masturbating. In other words, do you think like I saw a survey result recently that said that, like some large majority of men masturbate almost all the time to porn or, you know, I forget the details. Yeah.
  • [15:55] Mike: What do you think about that in your life? Do you think that basically those would amount to the same thing? Could you really just cut off the porn that keep beating off?
  • [15:55] Mike: I
  • [15:59] Keith: could, but I think the frequency would drop significantly.
  • [16:03] Keith: I don't think you would drop to zero, but it wouldn't. It would go from
  • [16:10] Keith: like, if I fully indulged myself. I think I would masturbate at least once a day. Um,
  • [16:17] Keith: and if I never looked at porn, it would probably be, like, once every two weeks or we once a week? I don't know. I don't know. I haven't
  • [16:19] Keith: I haven't tried. That's
  • [16:25] Mike: interesting. So, basically free for you. The main driver is actually the porn,
  • [16:25] Mike: I
  • [16:27] Keith: guess.
  • [16:28] Keith: Yeah, I guess so.
  • [16:32] Keith: There's I mean, yeah, like eventually. There's, like, a physical need that arises.
  • [16:33] Keith: Yeah. I mean, I think
  • [16:36] Mike: that I would, uh
  • [16:41] Mike: I think I would achieve, like, the same frequency. I think that there would be a transition period during which it would be difficult.
  • [16:53] Keith: Maybe that's right. Yeah, maybe I just have too much of a dependence on porn right now. And that would atrophy over time or that would go away over time. And I would eventually just sort of settle into about the same rate,
  • [16:56] Keith: right? I don't know, right?
  • [17:02] Keith: Yeah. I'm not sure you could look it like people in prisons or something to find that out.
  • [17:05] Keith: Do you think that although they may have access to part, I don't know.
  • [17:15] Mike: Do you think that you would if you were forced to use your own imagination, you would resort to imagining the person your current partner? Or do you think you would in a search for variety? Imagine.
  • [17:25] Mike: Ah, other people besides your partner people you've been with before, or maybe people you imagine being with. I'm guessing the ladder right Would be the normal move.
  • [17:28] Keith: What you like, Sort of have a bunch of different things that you think about know?
  • [17:47] Mike: Well, that you would definitely do that. But I'm thinking you could imagine a person masturbating was still fantasizing about their partner. Yes, but you could also imagine somebody saying No, no, I'm gonna imagine I'm gonna fantasize about some woman at the office that I haven't actually had sex with. And I'm imagining that probably most men would do the ladder, not the former.
  • [17:51] Mike: Yeah, I think so. Right. Although, yeah.
  • [17:58] Mike: So in some ways, masturbating for these guys masturbating is a way of basically overcoming the need for
  • [18:00] Mike: lots of different partners. Yeah.
  • [18:13] Keith: Yeah, it's It's like cultivating are not cultivating. It's it's curing that curing its addressing a desire for some sort of variety that that can't be had in most social norms
  • [18:15] Keith: with such alarms.
  • [18:18] Mike: Yeah, I think that's right. And so you you, uh, right.
  • [18:29] Keith: So Okay, so I mean, is it? I mean, given that I mean, you could you could make an argument that it's reasonable for women to feel jealous of their men consuming a lot of pornography.
  • [18:43] Mike: Well, it's tricky because you have to ask a couple questions I would want to ask. The first question would be like, Well, what? What is the relationship look like? Where the man does not have any access to that. Like, for instance, does that immediately cause the guy to start cheating?
  • [18:47] Keith: Yeah, well, I mean, she would obviously
  • [18:49] Keith: required that he not do that as well.
  • [18:56] Mike: Yeah, but it's like it's a fair point, but, I mean, it might be my increase. The probability of that like that in my mind. That's sort of the
  • [19:07] Keith: She's not thinking about it that way like she's thinking about it like, look like it makes me feel icky knowing that you're masturbating to your having orgasms effectively while thinking about other women.
  • [19:20] Mike: Yeah, but we just established. Okay, maybe a woman wouldn't I wouldn't think about this the same way a man would, but we just established that almost certainly that's happening anyway, unless the guy stops masturbating at all, unless he goes no fat.
  • [19:26] Keith: Yeah, there's probably something about the actual visual and aural stimulation that
  • [19:38] Keith: even if she knew that, like he's generally thinking about, you know, coworker, his favorite barista or whatever. Ah, yeah, the the actual visual image of like other women's
  • [19:41] Keith: genitalia is probably bothersome.
  • [19:55] Mike: Yeah, but I think it's sort of me in the eye like you're getting into that. I mean, it's probably sort of the same topic. It's basically her fear of him leaving for somebody else, right? But the point I wanted to make is I think it's like, ironic because in fact, I suspect that that
  • [20:04] Mike: requirement actually increases the probability that that happens. Right? Because if she says look, for example, if a woman's that look, you can only masturbate thinking about me.
  • [20:16] Mike: This is unrealistic. You can use porn. None of those sorts of things. Well, in fact, the most likely or a likely outcome of that scenario is that he leaves. He's like, Fuck you either cheats or he just takes off.
  • [20:24] Keith: Yeah, I mean, what you're saying is that by removing the pressure relief L of masturbation, she's actually increasing the chance that he like Flanders. That's probably true.
  • [20:35] Mike: Yeah, well, it's not. It's not just yeah, right, exactly. It's the pressure relief on the need. The male need to basically have. Like Variety. She's taking that away. And, yeah, so I think that, like women shouldn't.
  • [20:44] Keith: But that's that's not that's not Yeah, they probably shouldn't put like, weird requirements on like their boyfriend's sexual habits. Outside of
  • [20:55] Keith: like, yeah, they should put their boyfriend masturbating. Look at porn. But the general notion that, like what's happening is that they're thinking about some other woman like that's not a crazy thing to be jealous of.
  • [20:56] Keith: I think
  • [20:57] Mike: Well, I mean, it isn't
  • [21:06] Keith: I mean, it's sort of it's sort of ignoring the male experience or that mean the female experience probably seem to like women. Some women like to look at porn. Uh, but
  • [21:08] Keith: Yelich.
  • [21:14] Keith: If the notion that that that would make somebody jealous or feel uncomfortable is not insane, it's normal.
  • [21:20] Mike: Yeah, I mean, there's an emotional triggers. And me and I think that it's an emotion that people might call like misogynist.
  • [21:22] Mike: Maybe not.
  • [21:42] Mike: But it's an emotion where I say, like it reminds me of its just extreme short term thinking. It's like it's like somebody says, No, I smoking makes you feel good even if it gives me cancer later, It's like they're not considering the fact that, like by forcing this behavior on the guy because you're like, Oh, this makes me feel good right now. I don't feel jealous at all. Well, then later you're gonna so basically, Yeah,
  • [21:47] Mike: yeah, that you basically you're gonna avoid some sort of problem later. But in fact you are creating a problem.
  • [21:50] Keith: Yeah, but I mean jealousy is
  • [22:14] Keith: jealousy is just a demotion man, like it's not intellectual, like what's happening is she's irritated that he's thinking about other women that's normal. It's if she sat down and thought about like the long term consequences of, like prohibiting porn like she might arrive at a different decision. But ah, I mean, it's in this. And even in the case of like, this exact er, it sounds like she hasn't even actually said that. It's just that
  • [22:20] Keith: he says, my girlfriend has indirectly expressed that me watching porn would make her uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean, so
  • [22:21] Keith: yeah,
  • [22:57] Mike: well, he's just being extremely beta there. He's like he's like, tryingto correct the problem before, before she actually explicit Bring explicitly brings it up, which she will if he doesn't hide it from her. But I wanna carrying on that topic. One more turn here. It's to me. It's sort of like somebody saying, but I like eating Snickers bars, and I shouldn't have to care about the fact that they make me fat later. I should just use many as I want it like that. The woman in this case, I realized that it's implicit here, but if it were explicit, the woman is basically saying like, Look this thing, this this thing makes me, you know, one unit uncomfortable, and she's not able to foresee that she's gonna be like 10 units on. Come. Okay. All
  • [23:15] Keith: right. So, fine. I completely understand what you're saying, but let's say that, you know, your partner comes to you and says, Okay, it makes me really uncomfortable that you watch porn, and I would like you to stop. How would you, In a delicate manner, explained. Like what you just said.
  • [23:15] Keith: Well, I think
  • [23:25] Mike: my first and this is a difference between you and me. Actually, I think I think my first response to be like, Look okay, every time I desire an orgasm, then are you willing to, like, give me at least a hand job,
  • [23:28] Mike: right? And she'd be like, No,
  • [23:30] Mike: would you be a reasonable response
  • [23:32] Mike: like, Well, all right, then,
  • [23:37] Keith: weigh each. We each have our like, our needs being addressed here. Right now. It's just a vacation.
  • [23:47] Mike: Now, if if I had to switch it up to being a guy who, like, is more like way more variety focused, I think I would just say the truth. I'd be like, look like,
  • [23:59] Mike: What do you want? Like, this is what the guys have a need that basically like our society doesn't enable us to fulfill. But there is this awesome way we can do it without, like, causing big problems. So chill out.
  • [24:01] Keith: Yeah, okay.
  • [24:06] Keith: I mean, that's obviously the healthy way to approach this. But what is the unhealthy way?
  • [24:08] Keith: Ah,
  • [24:13] Keith: the unhealthy way is probably what this guy's gonna do, which is just lied. Or
  • [24:14] Mike: I think that's what most guys do. Like. You well
  • [24:26] Keith: know that people probably don't have explicit conversations about this, like, look like I'm in my thirties. So, like, the partners that I have now, like, are not idiots, but like a lot of people are with,
  • [24:40] Keith: You know, a lot of people get in relationships early and then, like, probably never actually really talk about this And, like, you know, you masturbated, you close the door and like, she sort of turns, you know, her eye the other way. And most people don't have adult conversations about this way. This is
  • [24:42] Mike: an interesting topic now. So
  • [24:55] Mike: what you said Okay, so when you let's say you have your girlfriend staying at your apartment, you know, typically live with your girlfriend right now. You're not living with anyone crying as far as I know. Um, I'm not.
  • [25:02] Mike: Is it typical for you to be like, Hey, babe, I'm gonna be masturbating now for the next 20 minutes.
  • [25:04] Mike: Now, I think you do know you. Have you ever done
  • [25:05] Keith: that?
  • [25:10] Keith: No, I've never needed to, Actually, cause I've never had a like livin.
  • [25:18] Keith: Well, I did once. Ah, did for a while once, but I guess I would masturbate when she was working or something.
  • [25:28] Mike: We okay, But But anybody who has a girlfriend is going to have her at their house sometimes, right? Like over the night. Like the one and so forth. Yeah. You basically have never
  • [25:36] Mike: during one of those periods of time when there's a woman at your house for an extended period of time, even if you're not living together said, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna beat off now and just pulled out the porn.
  • [25:47] Keith: Yeah, Now that you mention this, I realized that it sounds Yeah, like, I shouldn't have made it to 37 years old and not have had that situation arise. But it just have a
  • [25:53] Mike: okay. No way. No, I I suspect that's actually normal. I don't think that I've ever done that either.
  • [25:59] Mike: I think the guy should be able to do that I think is kind of cool, but I think the women would be sort of picked out by it.
  • [26:11] Keith: Yeah. I mean, look, yeah, probably the healthiest thing is like Okay, Yeah, like just explicitly stating to each other you're sort of sexual desires and once and then trying to, you know,
  • [26:15] Keith: meet in the middle and find out, like, what best addresses everyone's needs.
  • [26:19] Keith: But that's not the typical protocol that humans have. Yeah,
  • [26:25] Mike: there's, I mean, on the sex separate I have run into posts were, or at least comments where either a woman or man a
  • [26:26] Keith: lot of him still
  • [26:37] Mike: likes. It's a woman will be like, Oh, yeah, you know, my boyfriend. You know, if he'll just beat off, you'll just be like, I'm gonna beat off now and I'll do it And I'm always, like, really, like it's really hard. I would love to, like, talk to one of these people like, How does that
  • [26:41] Mike: is that, like a Is that normal? Is that some sort of like a
  • [26:44] Mike: fetish kind of thing? Or is that like it's just hard for me to imagine how
  • [26:50] Keith: that partner knows that his where the where the guy knows that his girl knows that he's masturbating. Yeah,
  • [26:54] Mike: he's basically like, Look, I'm gonna beat off now. She's like, Well, I mean the thing we've just been discussing, but like, Well,
  • [27:03] Keith: maybe I bet that's not how it goes. He's like, Hey, I'd like to have an orgasm. Now do you want to assist? And then she says, No. And he's like, All right, no, be back in 15 minutes.
  • [27:08] Mike: No. Okay, But in these comments, it's like maybe she'll like,
  • [27:15] Mike: maybe she'll sit there and, like, you knows, I don't know, like, watch. I've definitely seen comments. Were people like Oh, yeah, she likes to watch. And I'm like, really?
  • [27:17] Mike: Okay, um, she
  • [27:19] Keith: likes to watch, but not participate.
  • [27:25] Mike: Yeah, I've seen women say that. They're like, Yeah, this is so great. Just watching. And I'm like, really like that seems
  • [27:28] Keith: maybe it's great in that.
  • [27:36] Keith: Yeah, maybe she her What is it? Mirror neurons that like viewing that he's experiencing pleasure. But
  • [27:39] Keith: she's just not in a horny mood herself,
  • [27:52] Mike: I guess. I mean, have you ever just sat and watched a woman masturbate like not at a live You'll live, but it was actually masturbate not in a strip club where it's Fink. No, I have. And it wasn't. I was sort of like This is not, I
  • [27:58] Keith: think. I mean, I haven't, like short bursts, but then I jumped in, and,
  • [28:05] Mike: you know, I have watched all the way through, and it was sort of like, not it was Petre on Poor.
  • [28:08] Mike: Yeah, shocked.
  • [28:16] Mike: Well, I mean, because porn ads like the variety of it being a new person, I think I think that's like, the the difference there. Like it's like, Oh, you again. And now you're doing this
  • [28:18] Keith: right? Yeah.
  • [28:20] Keith: Um
  • [28:54] Keith: okay, let's be led to the next topic. Uh, okay. This is Ah, snowmelt DNA on. And she says, My boyfriend told me he sometimes smells poop when we have sex. She is a 19 year old female, her boyfriend, 22 year old male. So today, my boyfriend told me Sometimes my butt smells like poop. When we have sex, I'm horrified. A shower twice a day, morning and night and change underwear each time I take a shower. I'm pretty sure I'm wiping correctly. Said it doesn't bother him at all. It's just something he notices. Sometimes it's never stopped us from having sex. He just mentioned this casually when we were talking, but said, It's nothing to be embarrassed about.
  • [29:09] Keith: I want to prevent this sometimes, especially when it's hot outside and I'm sweaty. I'll notice my butt smells bad, sis. Normal. Sometimes it's just six hours after I showered. And this is with no significant exercise just day to day life. Can someone give me advice? This is really embarrassing.
  • [29:11] Mike: Do you have advice for her?
  • [29:13] Keith: Come?
  • [29:16] Keith: Uh,
  • [29:20] Keith: not really. Ah.
  • [29:37] Keith: Oh, I mean, she says she's pretty sure she's wiping correctly, So let's let's assume that there's no, like, particularly unusual, uh, technique or biology thing here, right? Yeah. Okay. So given that, uh,
  • [29:41] Keith: you know, this'll isn't saying, I mean, look, um,
  • [29:48] Keith: women do poop. They like to true for as long as possible.
  • [29:50] Keith: They like to act as if they don't.
  • [29:57] Keith: You know, they also occasionally have gas or other bodily functions that are not the most attractive things.
  • [30:03] Keith: And s O. Yeah. I mean, this is just a thing that is, Uh yeah,
  • [30:09] Keith: I don't think she should be embarrassed. Assuming that there's nothing unusual going on here, do you?
  • [30:11] Mike: Would you rather a woman.
  • [30:21] Mike: I think you've told me this before, but would you rather a woman assiduously hide her bodily functions from you or just be like, Yeah, I'm gonna leave the door open and poop.
  • [30:22] Keith: I would.
  • [30:25] Keith: There's actually like some ah,
  • [30:34] Keith: books that, like, give advice about this on. You know, they talk about, like, how to how to avoid bedroom, death and stuff. And they almost all say, like, you should
  • [30:35] Keith: keep
  • [30:48] Keith: restroom functions away from each other even if you're married or whatever. Like you don't have to let go crazy. But it's you try not to fall into the pattern of, you know, be brushing your teeth like while your wife or whatever is pooping.
  • [30:58] Keith: And what's the rationale? I think it like that explicit removal of of the
  • [31:03] Keith: of the of the facade, I think is
  • [31:13] Keith: Listen, that in itself is fine, but it's like it's like a symptom of, like, a lack of, like, mystery and pursuit and, ah,
  • [31:19] Keith: you know, sort of the push and pull between, You know, two partners. So
  • [31:28] Keith: if if you're so comfortable with each other that like, there's no mystery or there's no deal like it effects, desire I think.
  • [31:34] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I think that's that makes sense to me. Um,
  • [31:38] Mike: yeah. The only thing I can add, there's I'm reminded of those. Like Roman
  • [31:49] Mike: Roman baths. Roman Bath? Yeah, like old Roman towns were like Roman cities were like dudes, which is basically, like, hang out taking shits next to each other and, like, talk. And then they would all wipe with the same sponge.
  • [31:57] Keith: Is that true? I did not know that. I know. I have seen those Roman baths where there's, like, you know, 10 marble toilets, like right next to each other.
  • [32:01] Mike: Yeah, and they were just basically hang out there and then, yeah, they would. They would use the sponge that I think they
  • [32:03] Keith: have a dip in different.
  • [32:14] Keith: I mean, look, there was homosexuality in ancient Rome, obviously. But that's different because you're not sexualizing the person sitting next to you on the toilet. In that case, generally,
  • [32:22] Mike: yeah, but I could imagine it, like, sort of inhibiting your ability to, like, talk normally to each other because you're like, remember that time you were farting a lot next to me?
  • [32:23] Mike: I don't know.
  • [32:39] Keith: Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, I prefer to poop by myself, but I could imagine get, you know, getting used to pooping next to other men. But I don't really have a whole lot of interest in getting used to, um, pooping or being pooped next to buy my partner.
  • [32:44] Mike: So I agree strongly with the conclusion of the book or whatever. It was you ready
  • [32:47] Mike: that you're bringing up that says, like that's a good way to
  • [33:00] Mike: avoid problems. But But I suspect that there's a gender dichotomy here. And then I suspected that it's really, really, really important for the woman to conceal these things and for the man, I don't know if it matters as much. In other words, I'm not sure a woman would be is
  • [33:05] Mike: turned off by that. Although I'm not being a woman, I'm not sure what you think about that.
  • [33:08] Keith: Yeah, that's interesting. I mean,
  • [33:11] Keith: certainly the
  • [33:17] Keith: the stereotype is that yet, like men's bodies do Maur sort of gross things
  • [33:39] Keith: right, and you know, so that's so so like by extension, women may be more comfortable watching or not. Yeah, yeah, they can tolerate, like the man farting or doing gross things more more than a man can tolerate that from the one. Why do you think men
  • [33:51] Keith: like Why is it evolutionarily beneficial to like Project Women is in like a sort of, like, perfect, pure form that whose bodies, like don't do a lot of things that they actually d'oh
  • [33:54] Mike: ice, I would guess,
  • [33:58] Mike: given the five seconds I had to reflect on that question
  • [34:40] Mike: that it relates Thio the same thing that makes men want to impregnate like women who are a CZ young as possible but still fertile. Okay, it's basically like a fertility youth indicator that it's like anything that's like, kind of off at all, like renders the woman not attracted less attractive. And that's because, like evolutionarily, we're supposed to like target women who are as fertile as possible in like the opposite directions. Not, you mean, like it or not? It's not the same for women. Visa VI men, right? The thing that evolutionarily a woman would care about in a man is not that it's something else, like maybe status or intelligence or strength, but it's not gonna be like just pure fertility in the same way.
  • [34:42] Keith: Yeah, I think that makes sense.
  • [34:44] Keith: Um,
  • [34:51] Keith: what should she? How should this girl overcome her good for starters. Why did her boyfriend bring this up?
  • [35:12] Mike: I mean, that was actually my first thought When I read this post was like, that was a really untaxed, full way to go about it. Like, but But 20 D'oh! Yeah, he probably was just sort of, like, dismayed and confused. And, of course, women are in the unfortunate position of having people smelling their butt holes, like men generally are not in that position unless they're into rimming, which is a
  • [35:15] Keith: game. And I mean, obviously, in that position all the time.
  • [35:19] Mike: Oh, sorry. You're right. Of course I didn't think of that.
  • [35:24] Mike: No, I didn't. Yeah, that's a fair point. In fact, if you watch much more deeply,
  • [35:27] Mike: pun not intended, but absolutely.
  • [35:45] Mike: Um So this is a thing that a man might not realize how difficult it would be a moment Debray when he winning. What? When he brings up this topic, Theo, Only thing I can say that Adis like you know, the old reddit adage of Ah, when you know you're done wiping with the toilet paper. What color should be when you wipe, right? What color is a Keith
  • [35:54] Keith: Well, we actually know. Is there like a mim around this? I mean it Zi long been a joke that like, yeah, you can, like, wipe Forever And like poop keeps coming. But like, what's the Is there some like,
  • [35:59] Mike: Yes, the the red A joke is that you need to wipe until the toilet paper is in fact read.
  • [36:01] Keith: It's bloody from from wiping too much.
  • [36:08] Mike: Yes, that is the joke. I mean, she could get some baby wipes or something. I don't know, but I'm right. This is that.
  • [36:11] Mike: Well, there's okay. There's another thing
  • [36:30] Mike: I don't know. Like I think, like there's another thing that's possible here, which is that he might just not be understanding like he might be. Misunderstanding the odors. You may not be like, perfect at that, right? So so far, I think there's some closeness among the different odors in that area of the body. I mean, so obviously, if she smells just like
  • [36:42] Mike: I really actually like shit, that's different. But it could be that it's like some slight smell of that. And actually, in fact, it's like some other substance that, uh, maybe it's some confusion. There could also be she has some infection or something. Who knows?
  • [36:47] Keith: It could be Yeah. I mean, that's why I tried to copy up this at the beginning, but she doesn't have any kind of issue,
  • [36:50] Keith: but yeah. I mean, look, you yet, generally,
  • [36:59] Keith: Uh, yeah. Is it? Dude, you just sort of, like, get over it or don't notice it. I didn't have, like, a one like, short anecdote to share here, So I, uh,
  • [37:06] Keith: I once dated a girl That for a sort of interesting reason I'm not gonna get into here did not have a sense of smell.
  • [37:10] Keith: I remember this girl. Yes, and, ah,
  • [37:12] Keith: we have been dating for a little while,
  • [37:15] Keith: and she returned from the restroom,
  • [37:19] Keith: and she
  • [37:25] Keith: she put her like hand on my face for some reason, you know? Yeah. Maybe she was kissing me or something,
  • [37:31] Keith: and Ah, yeah. I mean, I could I could smell, like, poop on her her fingers.
  • [37:32] Keith: And,
  • [37:38] Keith: you know, she, of course, can't Couldn't tell this. And, you know, it wasn't It wasn't like it was.
  • [37:40] Keith: It was
  • [37:45] Keith: It was somewhere between mild and and medium like. It wasn't what I was definitely noticeable.
  • [37:55] Keith: And yeah, you know, obviously an extreme turnoff. And our relationship ended shortly after that because I didn't have Thea.
  • [38:02] Keith: I think the courage or wherewithal to sort of, like, what? Do you What do you think I should have done in that situation?
  • [38:11] Mike: Well, it's interesting. So I mean, the analogy to this reddit post would be if he just instead of mentioning it, he just broken up with her. And, of course, when which
  • [38:13] Keith: respectively, what I did.
  • [38:15] Mike: And you didn't tell her the reason either, Did you?
  • [38:17] Keith: No, it did not come up.
  • [38:20] Mike: Right? But was this in fact, there were. There were other things too, right?
  • [38:23] Keith: Yeah, there were. There were the I wasn't. Yeah,
  • [38:33] Mike: but for the for you, this sort of broke the camel's back as they say. You're like, I can't because I remember when you told me this story. You also told me another related story about some toilet paper.
  • [38:44] Mike: I did. I don't remember this. You told me that there was a girl who you were, um I don't even know. I know this is true because I have a decent, decent, very good memory for these kind
  • [38:46] Keith: of excited to hear, Like this story about myself.
  • [39:07] Mike: Yes. So you had a woman who you were preparing to have sex with. O got into the position and everything, and you notice that she had some toilet paper on her labia. Yeah, You You were so grossed out by that, You're just like it was like a Seinfeld opposite. You're like, I'm out of here. I can't I don't know. I don't know exactly how you know ped out, but, you know, in no doubt of the entire relationship, I think
  • [39:10] Keith: e did. Yeah, she was That was
  • [39:39] Keith: I often think back to fat. You forgot about it. And just short term here, But yeah, I often think back to met because she was really great in bed and, yeah, like, for some reason, that was just like, Nope, can't do it And, like, look it. Yeah, like, you know, she probably just got, you know, she was peeing and, like, you know, she wiped and, like, you know, there was, like, a little fleck of toilet paper on her labia. But for some reason, like it just that took me from like treating her vagina is like this, like, mystical thing to something that was just like it was just so
  • [39:44] Keith: I don't know, humanizing or like, it was so demystifying that Yeah, I
  • [39:47] Keith: Look, I'm not proud of my guy, Should
  • [39:52] Keith: I don't know. Yeah, It grossed me out to the point that that was it.
  • [40:04] Mike: Yeah, it's an interest. I mean, like, in some ways, like you are very well placed to understand, Uh, what this girl's what this guy and what this girl is trying to understand about men like you're you're somebody you like,
  • [40:15] Mike: is it? Has some really strong, huh? Aversions to something not being out of something being slightly out of place like that.
  • [40:19] Keith: Yeah, I think I might be a little bit
  • [40:21] Keith: overly sensitive to that kind of thing.
  • [40:25] Mike: Well, there's also your issue with. For instance, if you're on a dating app,
  • [40:32] Mike: if a woman has a broken arm and one of her pictures Yeah, you're you'll then immediately thumbs or down, even if it is a really interesting
  • [40:34] Keith: Yeah, it's a major turnoff for me, and
  • [40:36] Mike: that means she's broken on some level.
  • [40:45] Keith: It makes sense. I mean, sort of philosophically it it Ah, intellectually, it makes sense because you like it implies that she's injury prone,
  • [40:46] Keith: but
  • [40:54] Keith: it doesn't really matter. In the scheme of things, probably. I don't know. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe that is actually a good selection as good as any other selection criteria.
  • [41:07] Mike: Okay, but what is the toilet paper telling you? Just that, Like she's not absolutely perfect at, uh, managing like, yeah. Where does that end? Like, if a woman have her makeup isn't perfectly done. Each time you go out to dinner, I like, I can tell. That's which.
  • [41:08] Keith: I don't think
  • [41:10] Mike: it's true. I don't think that bothers you, for example.
  • [41:12] Keith: No, it doesn't. Um,
  • [41:33] Keith: in fact, yeah. I mean, I prefer less makeup to more, but yeah, I don't understand. I don't understand this about me. Like it's I agree that it is relate ridiculous to dismiss someone for a one time off smell or one time off sheet of paper. But I don't know, like these things things happened and the relationships ended the smell.
  • [41:46] Mike: One is a little bit different because maybe you were like, Oh, this is gonna happen again and again. But what I what I expecting more charitable to you here? I suspect that what was going on is like In each case, things weren't going. There was a problem in the relationship anyway. And then you were sort of like
  • [41:49] Mike: this. I just can't like he was a straw that broke the camel's back,
  • [41:55] Keith: I think. To be clear, these were not like, you know, 12 month long relationships. They were, you know, early days,
  • [42:08] Mike: right? Right. That makes sense. So, yeah, I don't think I don't know. And and actually, I think if men introspect about this, maybe all men would react that way to, like, a little bit of toilet paper or whatever. Like if they weren't totally sure about the girl, They're like,
  • [42:10] Mike: I can't I can't do this.
  • [42:15] Mike: So women? Yeah, maybe need to be super hyper careful, which is kind of a drag. But there you are.
  • [42:17] Keith: Yeah.
  • [42:18] Keith: I mean,
  • [42:40] Keith: I think the right advice is like, don't worry about stuff like that. And like, some men are gonna be weird and overly sensitive to it. And other men aren't because you can't. What? What is she supposed to do? Like every time she thinks she might have sex, like, you know, carry around baby wipes with her and perfume and an enema kit. and you know all that's like I mean, come on, that's not realistic or sustainable.
  • [42:46] Mike: Yeah, but I don't know if you're right that that not all men are like that. I'm just not sure.
  • [42:55] Mike: Yeah, I think it's possible that, like, it's a that it is kind of a broad thing. Like I'm trying to introspect myself like I don't know, Like, I I sort of see where you're coming from on your reactions to those things. So I don't know.
  • [42:57] Keith: Yeah,
  • [43:32] Keith: it's tricky, but, I mean, I just don't think there's anything they can do. I mean, look, we met already. Goto like, extreme lengths to present themselves in the best lights. Like, um, you know, they've been in flight, but they put on makeup. They like mask odor. They were, you know, like matching lingerie. And, you know, things that are, like, uncomfortable to wear and like, you know, footwear that, like, you know, presents their bodies and their ass is and like this like, perfectly like they're already going to great lengths. And yeah, I'm not sure where, like the right line there is, but it seems like to me
  • [43:43] Keith: Well, intellectually, it seems to me that like, Yeah, it's already, like, way across the line of, like, reasonability. But yeah, I'm gonna you know, here I am, like, telling stories of, like me dismissing people for tiny things
  • [43:55] Mike: I mean, isn't all sort of cut from the same cloth in the sense of like the primary thing. Like, for instance, if a man if you have a woman that you are chatting with on tinder or say say,
  • [44:00] Mike: Ah, and you're telling a friend about her, one of the first things you'll do is you'll kind of
  • [44:09] Mike: you give him some notion of how attractive she is. Maybe the first thing you'll say she'll say, Oh, she's She's this level of attractiveness for that level, right? Yes.
  • [44:18] Mike: And so, like on someone like the women look, the women are reactor responding to the reality that men are simply judging men, women that way. And women don't judge men
  • [44:19] Mike: in the same way.
  • [44:24] Keith: Yeah, although the initial thing might be like, Oh, look at this cute guy found on tender.
  • [44:33] Mike: Well, there's a separate. Yeah, if you want. Yeah, there's a separate conversation if I have about how women pick men, but yeah, sure. Uh, we have some long running discussions about that, but
  • [44:41] Keith: sure, Yeah, yeah. You were too late into this episode. T dive into that, but yeah. Okay. So continue.
  • [44:43] Mike: You'll meet a dive into the into the topic. You
  • [44:47] Keith: know, you were saying something about how
  • [44:52] Keith: you like it. If I find a girl on tender, like, the first thing l say is
  • [44:52] Keith: she
  • [45:28] Mike: was someone Maybe not you, but ah ah, superficial man. Normal man might say, Oh, look, she's an eight. She's an eight. Like an eight out of 10. She's 80% attractive order. But your talk Every other man on the planet knows when you say she's an eight, you're talking about her physical attractiveness, the size of her boobs, all that sort of stuff. You're not like, Oh, she's in eight because she, um she went to m i t. Right. Like nothing to do with the 88 is simply purely appearance. And therefore, like, right, it shouldn't be that surprising and effective. I don't think it would be that surprising to a woman. That a man then was like, Oh, her vagina had something wrong with it. Ah, Now she's a four.
  • [45:33] Keith: Yeah. I mean, this isn't fair. And it's not even like a reasonable response like,
  • [45:42] Keith: Yeah, like any girl could have, Like, a little bit of toilet paper on their labia. It's just, you know, she did it at the at the wrong time, I guess.
  • [45:42] Keith: Yeah,
  • [45:44] Mike: that's like, that's what That's what they're faced with. Right? So that's
  • [45:54] Keith: Yeah, that sucks. That would be That would be a big burden to carry. Like, can't ever, like, do anything. That is it perfect. Perfect.
  • [45:55] Keith: Yeah, that's right.
  • [46:00] Keith: Okay, let's move on to the next topic. This is from my ride. Unicorns 22.
  • [46:18] Keith: All right. Can most women grip and squeeze? The guy's a guy's Penis with their vagina. Not during orgasm, but just anytime I usually do this. Like squeeze, grip and hold. Relax. Repeat. Makes them come really quickly. Been told that I have this talents, but I just assumed that everyone could do it, right.
  • [46:19] Mike: Yeah.
  • [46:21] Mike: So is that the end of the
  • [46:23] Keith: end of the question? It's short and sweet.
  • [46:26] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I think that, um
  • [46:29] Mike: I don't think that I've ever been with a woman
  • [46:42] Mike: and I can't even really imagine on a sleeping with a woman who without moving her body or moving my in other words, without the Penis moving in and out of the vagina that I could get to orgasm. What do you think about that?
  • [46:50] Keith: This'll like a throwback to I don't have his last episode of the one before where the guy, just, like, hung out inside a girl for three minutes and then
  • [46:55] Keith: removed his Penis and immediately ejaculated A.
  • [46:57] Keith: I guess
  • [47:02] Keith: I agree with it with the gist here, but I have
  • [47:37] Keith: Maybe, Maybe, I don't know. Maybe I'm just imagining this. I feel like I've been with a girl who could squeeze. What is it, the Kegel muscle or some sort of? There's like some PC muscle. I remember what that stands for it, but there's a C. Yeah, there's some muscle down there that ah, there are like tools. There's like a Fitbit for for like, your your vagina exercises that you can get, and people can like practice strengthening this this muscle. But I don't know if I've ever been with someone who, like, used that as a primary technique or aggressively, as like this person is describing.
  • [47:42] Mike: Yeah, I don't I'm skeptical that that would would work. And so I'm thinking
  • [47:45] Keith: of myself lying. Do you think she's? Do you think she's confused about her ability
  • [47:46] Mike: here?
  • [47:52] Mike: I think that first of all, I think the context like, did she say that the context was that she's on top or anything like that? Or was there no mention?
  • [47:58] Keith: No. Uh, can most women grip and squeeze a guy's Penis with your vagina?
  • [48:04] Keith: Usually do this like squeeze, grip and hold. Relax for Peter makes them come really quickly. Nope, there's no position discussion,
  • [48:07] Mike: right? So I mean, he's thrusting in and out is my guess.
  • [48:08] Keith: And yeah, I
  • [48:16] Mike: mean, like, I'm sure it would like feel, you know? I mean, that's gonna It's going to create some sort of a sensation there, but I'm not sure it's gonna be like
  • [48:17] Mike: enoughto,
  • [48:21] Mike: you know, really sort of move the needle, as they say,
  • [48:42] Mike: Um, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I I will say this, though. The only thing that I thought of when hearing the question was there is a position. There are positions that a woman can adopt that are, I think, more likely to Bruce, a quick nut from the guy and the one I will mention one, which is I've found that if the woman,
  • [48:45] Mike: uh, it's very
  • [48:48] Mike: athletic and is able to sort of squat over you,
  • [48:59] Mike: Uh, and so she's on top and sort of go up and down that way. Uh, that seems to tighten the vagina in such a way that it's sort of surprisingly tight. You see? You see, you said you up, like you know what I'm talking
  • [49:04] Keith: about. Yeah, there are various positions which tightened the vaginal canal. But
  • [49:11] Mike: importantly, this position is not the one where you're on your knees. You have to be on your feet. Which means it's extremely. It's, like, almost impossible to do for more than, like, 20 seconds.
  • [49:13] Keith: Yeah, it's
  • [49:15] Keith: Yeah, I think that's right.
  • [49:24] Keith: Have you ever known your running 20 seconds? No. No. Yeah. I mean it yet because you need strong hamstrings or clouds or something.
  • [49:35] Mike: Right now, I think there could be some apparatus, like, you know how, uh, in in baseball, some catchers will have that thing they were to make it so they can squat more easily and then come up more easily.
  • [49:43] Keith: Oh, interesting. Yeah, like it goes in between. But it goes behind their knee in between their hamstring and their calf. Yes, Yes,
  • [49:47] Mike: exactly. That is a thing. I didn't just imagine that, right? It's a real bitch. Yeah.
  • [49:50] Mike: Yes. So you could imagine a woman getting one of those.
  • [49:55] Mike: I am, You know, being able to really go to town on that dick, although I have. Yeah.
  • [49:58] Keith: Go. This is an amazing thought. Yeah, go ahead. Continue. I
  • [50:07] Mike: have some suspicion, however, that the difficulty of doing the position is why the vagina gets a type.
  • [50:13] Keith: Oh, I see. There's like, Yeah, there's a general contraction down there. That's just sort of tightening everything up.
  • [50:29] Mike: Yeah. So, basically, if you made it well, I mean, that seems like a pretty likely to be the case. Like, in other words, if you had, like, a robotic arm that was causing her body to do those motions, I suspect it would not be a state, I guess. I don't know. It would be an interesting thing to test.
  • [50:34] Mike: Are there other positions that you found that the woman could get into that like, achieve that same type of tightness? Maybe I could learn something here.
  • [50:42] Keith: Uh, yeah. If you if she's down in her legs or up. Um,
  • [50:47] Keith: not just like on your on your shoulders or whatever, but, like, sort of pinned together
  • [50:55] Keith: that can create some tightness. Although she may have, I'm wondering if it's the same thing if, like, she's contracting in such a way
  • [50:57] Keith: to Ah,
  • [50:59] Keith: yeah, I'm not sure. I guess I'm just not sure. I'm not
  • [51:07] Mike: sure I understand the position you're describing. So it's like as if she has her legs on your shoulders. You're on top. But what's the change? You put the legs together in, like, over one,
  • [51:10] Keith: maybe. Yeah, like maybe you're holding them up or something.
  • [51:11] Mike: Okay.
  • [51:14] Mike: Yeah,
  • [51:25] Mike: I don't Yeah, I haven't found that. I found this other position to be uniquely uniquely tighter. It's like to the point where it's surprising when it happens. You're like, Whoa, I didn't know that was possible.
  • [51:26] Keith: Yeah,
  • [51:29] Keith: well, yeah, OK, so but
  • [51:36] Keith: all right, look, obviously there are things you could like, other things that could be done to, like, generally tighten the canal. But yeah, I don't know. I think
  • [51:41] Keith: like reading the comments here in this thread, like a lot of people are arguing that, like,
  • [51:45] Keith: uh yeah, there's some sort of like cable exercise. You could do to,
  • [51:46] Keith: um,
  • [51:53] Keith: tighten things in away that men can feel. Although there's a lot of debate, a lot of people says
  • [51:54] Keith: say
  • [51:55] Mike: no,
  • [52:05] Mike: Like the debate over whether women's squirting is pee or not, right? It is P. It is P people, uh, we're we're scientists here. It's p um,
  • [52:12] Mike: it's like that. I think that people want to sort of fulfill their fantasies. They want to be able to milk
  • [52:25] Mike: to milk the guy's Penis like that. But I don't I don't really think it works that way. It's a little bit like the vibrator to the head of the Penis, like unfortunately like the motion that works tends to be kind of the friction of going in and out. And so it's not,
  • [52:31] Mike: I mean, all things being equal. A tighter orifice is better up to a point, but I don't think
  • [52:34] Mike: this is likely to make that big of a difference that I don't know.
  • [52:35] Mike: I'm sure some people might disagree.
  • [52:39] Keith: Yeah, I like the idea of just like,
  • [52:46] Keith: you know, being passive, and then she's just doing something that's mostly passive. But she's just like squeezing and contracting and like,
  • [52:55] Keith: I wonder if it's possible to reach orgasm that way. I bet it is. And that there's some women that, like have enough control over over that muscle.
  • [53:13] Mike: I'd have some doubts. I mean, I think your point about like the guy who, if a guy is like a premature ejaculating er than it's gonna that's another confounding variable here. But I think what you're describing it actually reminds me of a porn. I watched once that I could never find again. Sometimes that happens and find one. That's interesting. This was one where you
  • [53:16] Keith: don't create accounts on the tube sites, and I don't
  • [53:25] Keith: like. I was wondering about these people that, like you, create your PORNHUB account now like keep your greatest hits albums.
  • [53:29] Keith: Yeah, my impressions. Usually they never get hacked. She's this.
  • [53:30] Mike: Well, that's a risk.
  • [53:36] Mike: My pressure's away. People delete the videos frequently enough that you know. Yeah, you won't go back anyway.
  • [53:54] Mike: But this is one where a man, so it's it's it's actually like was something like the title was something like milking or something like that. And the man is a lying face down on top of some kind of a table bed, whatever. Something in bed with a very thin mattress. They cut a hole in it for his Penis. So then the woman is underneath the table
  • [53:58] Mike: so that the only thing sticking through it's like a glory hole, but sort of down. Yes,
  • [54:02] Mike: and then it's It's in the The whole scene is reminiscent. I
  • [54:03] Keith: don't even know if, like this is
  • [54:13] Mike: really my fetish or anything. It just was interesting on a fine. For some reason, I've thought about it since, like it's stuck in my head and it's a Ziff. You're like milking a cow, right? You have, like his cock pointing down like
  • [54:14] Keith: right, right on. Then, of
  • [54:19] Mike: course, they picked a guy. Either they faked it or they picked a guy with, like, you know, that that came like
  • [54:22] Mike: more than a normal person would
  • [54:24] Keith: actually looked like milking,
  • [54:37] Mike: I suppose, I suppose. But mostly just this. There's also like, I mean, some people I think you're into, like, the glory hole thing because it's like the isolation of the man from the woman. Like I said, that's not I'm really not into that,
  • [54:50] Mike: per se, but it's just ah, but I think that's like another aspect to it. Of course, I have to caveat here so that all men are totally clear on this. If you ever go to a glory hole, the person on the other side of the glory hole if you're putting your Penis in, is a man
  • [54:52] Mike: always.
  • [55:02] Keith: Yeah, I don't have thoughts on that. I do. You have, like, uh, you have, like, interest in glory holes that I just don't have like that That is completely un intriguing to me.
  • [55:06] Mike: I don't I don't have an interest in the sense of wanting to go visit one,
  • [55:11] Keith: right. But you find you find thinking about them and talking about them and, you know,
  • [55:18] Keith: uh, meditating on what? Their meeting is more more entertaining than I to
  • [55:19] Keith: Well, there's, I think.
  • [55:21] Mike: Okay, let me try to explain briefly.
  • [55:28] Mike: I think Gloria lt's are interesting for a couple reasons. First of all, like I mean, you're sticking your dick through this hole and you don't really know who or what's on the other side.
  • [55:37] Keith: That's I mean, that's why that's why it's completely on. Interesting family. Never even consider it like the Minister is not a turn on
  • [55:43] Mike: and I want to be so be precise here and telling all the men again that it's always a dude on the other side.
  • [55:55] Mike: So there's a risk element. It's not my fetish, either. But you're right that I find it intriguing. Yeah, there's a risk element because I always think, like, Why would it do to ever do that? Given the fact that they could get their dick cut off or all right,
  • [56:02] Keith: we just so many things that aren't good can happen. And so floor eyes that are good can happen, that it's just like, how do you
  • [56:13] Mike: know it's not like a bear or a cat on the other side of the Gloria like or just a man with like he's gonna use your cock is a pin cushion or some, and I'm sure that's happened before. I mean it. All it takes is once.
  • [56:22] Keith: Listen, I'm sure there's some horrible glory hole, uh, things that have happened, But like but again like, I just don't have any interest in knowing about that. I could
  • [56:22] Keith: compelling
  • [56:35] Mike: Keith. You're not. You're not. You're not letting your imagination water great about it. What's what's years? I'll tell you what's what's great about it. Is that so? As we've discussed before, I'm not sure on the podcast. But in general there's this
  • [56:37] Mike: Ah, strong desire on the part of some men, I
  • [56:38] Keith: think, even
  • [56:45] Mike: straight men, to blow another man like the thing that they're not straight than thereby whatever. But you see this and you see this on the sex. Read it a lot.
  • [56:51] Mike: Now what's interesting is a glory hole enables both people to get what they want. Say
  • [57:20] Mike: the man can, because, as we've established, there's a lot of dues. Other that want to give a blow, not necessarily receive a blow from a man they want to give a blow to a man. It's a thing, Yes, so So the guys. And it's always a guy on the other side. The carton get to give a blow. That's their fantasy. And the guy that's putting his Penis through, he gets his fantasy, which is he thinks it's some attractive woman, but it isn't. That's maybe he has a fantasy about the risks, so everybody's getting what they want. It's It's one of the few times and sex where everyone gets what they want.
  • [57:24] Keith: No. Well, no. Okay, first off,
  • [57:29] Keith: you really don't think you could tell like a man's mouth from from a woman's mouth,
  • [57:31] Keith: are
  • [57:34] Mike: you? Are you? Are you saying that you think you can?
  • [57:37] Keith: I mean, they would have to be perfectly clean shaven.
  • [57:38] Keith: Have you ever seen
  • [57:41] Mike: that video of the Gang of the Japanese game show where
  • [57:50] Mike: they have the guy? And then the guy tries to blow him and get him to liken under 33 minutes or something? It has a time limit. You confined this if you search on Google.
  • [57:57] Mike: Ah, and it's a sort of overweight man who gives the blow, and he always wins.
  • [58:03] Keith: I mean, this technique is probably strong, but, oh, you're saying that people can't tell
  • [58:05] Keith: E. I don't think it matters.
  • [58:14] Mike: Do they get in there? Look, if you were strongly, strongly heterosexual than the fact that it's a man would make it hard to get that nut out. And in fact, this dude's able to get the nut out
  • [58:17] Keith: of Oh, it's not a glory hole.
  • [58:32] Mike: Well, no, it's because they show it on. I think on, like, actual normal TV. And so it's It's like a little, um, it's like they make a little booth starting at the guy's waist. The guy who's getting blown is waste, and so all you see is his body above. And then you see his face as he's getting blown.
  • [58:36] Keith: I'd still understand. Can he see who's blowing him?
  • [58:39] Mike: No, but I think he knows it's a man. I say.
  • [58:51] Mike: The point is that the guy's technique I realize it's a little peripheral peripheral from your perspective. I mean, would you be willing to do an experiment where, like, you have a glory hole out there, some some women and you have to tell which one you think is the man?
  • [58:54] Keith: No. Why not? Because
  • [58:57] Keith: it was a woman. I'm not really interested in that experience
  • [59:00] Mike: way. Why not?
  • [59:07] Keith: Because I would just rather have a normal sexual experience instead of this, like weird one. We're like theirs.
  • [59:07] Keith: I think
  • [59:09] Mike: if I could be sure it was a woman, I might D'oh
  • [59:13] Keith: Well, that's the same as getting a blow job.
  • [59:20] Mike: No, because then, like think about this, though, like there's no way that she could, like, call you the next day or whatever. She actually doesn't know who you are. You
  • [59:25] Keith: sure there's like a transactional aspect to it. That that's my lingering
  • [59:27] Keith: Yeah. Uh, I guess I
  • [59:30] Mike: do find it a little bit compelling. I must. There must be something in there.
  • [59:31] Keith: Yeah,
  • [59:39] Keith: yeah. I mean, listen, our listeners can judge here Like who? Seems like they are obsessed with Gloria holes and who doesn't? But I think the jury is seen on this one.
  • [59:42] Mike: No, no, I know. I I know. I find it interesting that I mean, look, the
  • [59:42] Keith: other thing about
  • [59:51] Mike: it is like if you go on craigslist, they got rid of that particle exists. I don't know where it's migrated. I guess it's on tinder now. Yeah, but if you go to wherever it's my grades you
  • [60:03] Mike: backwards on Craigslist, you would search for like, I can't explain why I do this, but I've done searching on the gay men's personals. Uh, not personal. That's wrong. On the I wanna have sex right now stuff.
  • [60:04] Mike: And, um,
  • [60:15] Mike: just for fun, because I am used myself doing that, and, uh, you'll see these dudes will be like, I've got a glory hole, and then they'll have a picture of it. And the picture is always just this dank. It's like this
  • [60:17] Keith: like I don't respect or something.
  • [60:18] Keith: Yeah,
  • [60:23] Mike: and it'll be like one of those blue tarps you buy at Home Depot. Ah, hole ripped in it. And you're like,
  • [60:26] Keith: what? Like just not.
  • [60:31] Keith: What's the point of a glory hole when you know what's on the other side?
  • [60:35] Mike: Oh, I know. I can tell you what it is. It's the it's It's
  • [60:42] Mike: Yeah, here it is. I'm gonna tell you the answer Right now. The answer is, all the men involved are purportedly straight. It's that
  • [60:50] Mike: it's a way for straight men who might actually be a or maybe thereby. But our society's not cool with that or they're married or whatever.
  • [60:56] Mike: Thio, give. And I think giving the blow is what people really want to. But give or get a blow.
  • [61:13] Mike: Yeah, that's what it is. There's some guys. Maybe that the mystery is fine. There might be some gay guy's doing it, but I kind of doubt it because they could just use an app or whatever. I think it's I think this stuff is for sort of straight guys. I'd be interested to talk to, like, different people, to see what they think about that but I think it's straight guys. Or at least purportedly straight guys.
  • [61:19] Mike: Oh, and the reason why it matters is they want their identity hidden, like if you're married or whatever. You don't want some dude
  • [61:26] Mike: being like you don't run into some dude in the in the grocery store the next day and he's like, Oh, that's the dude I blew last
  • [61:33] Keith: Yeah, I guess, But, like, how does the set up work? Okay, this guy's like, Okay, I have a glory hole.
  • [61:35] Keith: Then who answers the door?
  • [61:53] Mike: Oh, he'll be like, he'll be like, Look, it's, Ah, text me, huh? And then I've never texted him, although I would and I have I could. We don't have time, but I've also I've texted lots of people using, and if people want to do this, you can do it. Using Google voice. It's fun. You can text different people, and it's just in untraceable,
  • [61:53] Mike: getting
  • [61:58] Keith: some of your more sophisticated griefs in the future. But okay, so you text this person
  • [62:07] Mike: right? And then and then I actually haven't done it for Glory Hole, but I my impression is they'll basically give you directions to where it is and it's It's just like there's an unlocked door. What
  • [62:10] Keith: did the guy just sits there? Hopefully,
  • [62:14] Mike: yeah, yeah, that's exactly what he does. He waits for addicted shop, and
  • [62:17] Keith: there's also, by the way,
  • [62:21] Keith: what? He just sits there for six weeks, like just in the hope
  • [62:22] Mike: that
  • [62:24] Mike: he has a schedule. He'll be like, Look, I'm gonna
  • [62:30] Keith: be sick advertising on Reddit and, like, you know, various various places. The video
  • [62:48] Mike: they would post on Craigslist with the little blue tarp picture and they'd be like, Look, I'm gonna be manning the glory hole from 9 p.m. To midnight. I'll be in there me and, like, a tuna fish sandwich or whatever. You come in and you stick that dick in and I'm gonna suck that dick. The other thing is there, of course, are Gloria. Ls it like
  • [62:56] Mike: adult video shop, sort of their places that are like Gloria will place. There's also that socially, you know where there's probably and like, if you go to like a,
  • [62:58] Mike: um,
  • [63:05] Mike: what is it like? They have places like gay bath houses or whatever, like these places where they have glory. It's like a thing in those places.
  • [63:07] Mike: So that exists too.
  • [63:08] Keith: Okay,
  • [63:14] Keith: I just I don't I just don't understand the intrigue. I don't Yeah, I don't get it.
  • [63:27] Mike: Because that's because I guess you're not a guy who's purportedly straight but wants to give or get blows with the guys. But I'm telling you, this is like a I suspect. It's like 10% of the straight male population is into this.
  • [63:28] Keith: I'm leaving.
  • [63:36] Keith: I'm leaving that meeting. I mean, I'm not that I don't love blow jobs in the first place, so yeah, Maybe this is just maybe you want to give a blow? I do not.
  • [63:43] Mike: Okay, well, that. But I'm telling you, like I've run across. So I've told you this many times. Like when you go on like craigslist or whatever.
  • [63:45] Mike: I guess it's gone now. But you would run a guy after guy after guys.
  • [63:52] Keith: Always that I know of the blow. I don't believe that. I don't think I know. You think that
  • [63:55] Keith: I can't. I just you know,
  • [63:58] Mike: I gotta put together some evident evidence packet for you to prove it.
  • [64:07] Keith: Yeah, that's right. But yeah, this notion that there's just like this legion of, like, straight dudes that are like, man, I really want to know what it's like to give someone a blow job. I mean, come on. Like that's just,
  • [64:08] Mike: you know,
  • [64:11] Mike: it's also on the sex subreddit all the time. Yeah.
  • [64:17] Keith: Okay. Well, the word in its literal I'm able to put together this packet pretty easily.
  • [64:21] Mike: I can The word the in What you said that makes it tricky. Is the word legion like?
  • [64:23] Keith: Yeah,
  • [64:24] Keith: right. Could be
  • [64:26] Mike: 0.1%. But I don't
  • [64:29] Keith: think you can find three men.
  • [64:31] Keith: Ah,
  • [64:37] Keith: who didn't it? I mean, did they need to be straight by the time we next record on Reddit? Like what? Like what? So good? What's a good
  • [64:43] Mike: rule here? I could find I could find five posts about this in the sex. Read it in the next hour.
  • [64:58] Keith: Wow. Okay. All right. All right, fine. Fine. That's that's a challenge. And then we'll we'll, we'll read them at the beginning of our next show. All right, well, we'll see. See if it's a true thing that there's, like, this group of men that, like you're just dying to give blowjobs.
  • [65:01] Mike: Okay, But people then like that, it's like, Well, are you really hetero, blah, blah, blah. Anyway.
  • [65:08] Keith: Sure, sure, sure. But I mean, that's why we'll read it so that like, yeah, like, the nuance could be conveyed to everybody. And we can let the jury decide.
  • [65:12] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I feel like most of the time there's one on the home page of,
  • [65:13] Mike: uh,
  • [65:16] Keith: good sex abuse. If I'm
  • [65:17] Keith: all right,
  • [65:22] Keith: I think that's a good place to wrap up. This sixth episode of your mileage may vary.
  • [65:37] Keith: You could contact us. You can contact us on Twitter at why mm iPod and by email at Y M M v pod at gmail dot com. We also have our Facebook page. Uh, we'd appreciate, um, any and all feedback you might have, especially if it's negative, since that's the most useful for us.