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Episode 62: "Paint My Face White" And Other Extraordinary Dirty Talk, With Ally

Team YMMV | 4-14-2022 | 1:05:35

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Once we've got the dirty talk out of the way, Ally joins us to discuss a wide array of sex and relationship topics. We watch a video taken from a woman's perspective of receptive oral sex. The discussion turns to women wanting anilingus performed on them, as it must.

Mike offers Ally numerous candidate dirty talk lines, but the best he can muster is a 5 out of 10 on her scale. She's apparently not willing to divulge what a 10 out of 10 would be, but I suspect I know what it is....

Someone asks whether being a sugar baby gives her an "unfair" advantage in life. And, is it believable that man could be so obsessed with sex with his wife that he has difficult concentrating on normal life when she's around?

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode:

https://ymmv.me/62/mr-pussy-licking

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/62/anilingus

https://ymmv.me/62/ordered-to-cum

https://ymmv.me/62/sugar-cheat-code

https://ymmv.me/62/wife-obsession

https://ymmv.me/62/open-relationship

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with a tantalizing blend of frankness preposterousness humor and deadpan delivery. We have a fun list of salacious topics to cover today including discussing why men ask their partner to come during sex a peak and an idy league sugar baby's existential angst. A woman using a dildo molded from an exs penis and more I am Keith recording today after 2 Scuba dives this morning off the caribbean island of curousel my cohost is Mike what's new one thousand seven hundred miles north of me Mike.
  • [00:32] Mike: North Really? Okay, not not no. It's just raining here. Not that exciting.
  • [00:35] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I calculated it lovely and today we have returning champion Allie Allie's main claim to fame for the purposes of the show is that she is a female but she has more degrees than most families of 4 combined. So I presume she can do other stuff. Thanks for giving this another world Allie.
  • [00:53] Ally: Thanks for having me back I'm recording from my office. It's a little rainy. Yeah.
  • [00:57] Keith: Nice. Is it cold there too. Okay, good good good I want you guys to be maximally jealous. So okay I'm going to kick things off with these 2 shortly. But first please rate review and subscribe to the show. Please tell your friends family and coworkers about us.
  • [01:07] Ally: I.
  • [01:15] Keith: If you'd like to give us some feedback or ask us a question or send us yet another unsolicited Dick Pic we can be reached at ymmvpod on Twitter or at Ymmv Pod at http://gmail.com okay so we ended our last episode with this post. About it was a woman asking. She said do y'all eat ass. Do you remember this Mike okay, and Allie you've you said that you you listened to that episode. So all right? So um, okay I wanted to punt the conversation to this episode because I wanted.
  • [01:38] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [01:53] Keith: Little bit of time to discuss this. Do you think there are things that women think they want sexually that if that that absent our according to some increasingly depraved culture. They they may not actually want. For example, you know, being really disappointed that somebody won't eat their ass.
  • [02:16] Mike: I think ah I I'm going to give some women the benefit of the doubt here that there's some physical pleasure they get from it but I'm going to guess that most of it's psychological. So it's like some kind of ah may look look 1 issue that women have. Allie notwithstanding because she doesn't she prefers not to receive oral sex but an issue that um some women have is just getting a man to move his face in that general direction and so it could just be like that they're they're just trying to get them down there at all you know and this is kind of the exclamation point if you can get them all the way to the ass then you've really. Got what you wanted out of them.
  • [02:55] Ally: Yeah I think there are certainly behaviors that culture introduces to women that they wouldn't have thought of otherwise but I don't think that it forces women to extensively gaslight themselves into thinking they like something over multiple interactions so they may be trying more things but I don't think they're.
  • [03:11] Keith: Okay.
  • [03:15] Ally: Doing those things repeatedly even though they don't like them.
  • [03:16] Keith: Yeah I mean you're sort of straw my position there but that's that's effectively what I'm saying like I think women may have gasolit themselves into convincing themselves that there are various acts that they would really like and if. Yeah, and and in a vacuum they may not actually like those things.
  • [03:39] Mike: Allie Allie what was the thing. What were you thinking? The first time you received analingus. Oh or no.
  • [03:42] Ally: I So I never have um I would probably just be thinking about the hygiene considerations but no are you offering.
  • [03:50] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [03:51] Mike: Have you ever had it offered to you.
  • [03:57] Keith: Yeah I.
  • [03:57] Mike: What huh? No I'm not actually I am on behalf of Keith its agent.
  • [04:02] Ally: Ah, then no no I haven't yeah.
  • [04:04] Keith: Now I have not offered a either and I'm I mean I can't you know you read these. There was like this famous thing that men would say in response to pictures of attractive women posted on the internet. This must have been like fifteen years ago but they would say. Yeah I would eat the the corn kernels out of her out of her poop and I have never I've never been so attracted to a woman in the moment where I felt like I wanted to lick her asshole. It just seems like the the risk is too high.
  • [04:24] Mike: Oh come on give. If. With it at Allie you yeah go ahead.
  • [04:37] Ally: Oh that's something where that's something where society is you know, tricking men into thinking they would enjoy eating the corn kernels out of someone's foop when they really would not.
  • [04:47] Mike: I don't think it's society I think it's the male libido that just makes men feel crazy right? What Ali what? So I mean you're relatively adventurous.
  • [04:50] Keith: Yeah, yeah, it's their their their Disgust reflex is so suppressed that they would just do anything. Yeah.
  • [04:55] Ally: Ah, yeah I go.
  • [05:03] Mike: Person Generally I mean you're on a sex and relationships podcast here. So what? what has prevented you from being curious about a receptive anal linguus and I I'm going to assume that you all Well, you're probably not going to tell us whether you've performed analingus on someone. Maybe you would but like it. Either direction like what's prevented you from having a higher level of interest.
  • [05:23] Ally: Ah I mean previous guests have pointed out that I'm not particularly adventurous compared to themselves So I've I've neither performed nor requested um and I think this the thing that's preventing me from performing or requesting is is really the same thing just I don't want to. Get poop anywhere near my mouth nor do I want my partners to because their mouths get near my mouth.? No no I'm not I've I've tried that maybe 3 times and it just hurt a lot every time in a way that I did not enjoy so.
  • [05:47] Mike: Okay, and you're not into anal sex either right? I can't remember.
  • [06:00] Keith: Okay, well okay, have 2 questions I mean well I have has anyone ever asked you to perform annolingus on them. Okay, yeah I mean this is sort of the same situation as me, somebody asked me once I declined.
  • [06:08] Ally: No.
  • [06:17] Mike: They asked you to perform it on them. What what? What were the exact words that I'm assuming it was a woman that she used.
  • [06:17] Keith: Um, um, yes, yes. Yeah I was going down on her in the normal way and ah she kept like you know tilting her hips in such a way and I thought you know my ego being what it is.
  • [06:35] Ally: Ah.
  • [06:42] Keith: I Thought she was just really enjoying what was going on. But no, she was she was trying to reposition because yeah, ultimately she said ah I mean she didn't say pleasing but she said you can eat my ass if you like I don't think she said if you like her grammar would not have been that good.
  • [06:55] Mike: The.
  • [07:00] Keith: But she said yeah she she basically came out and said please hit my ass and I mean it's actually sort of an awkward situation because I don't want to do that. But it's sort of a turnoff if like you ask your partner to do something in a sexual encounter and they say no I yeah.
  • [07:04] Mike: Ah huh.
  • [07:16] Ally: Um, is it. Okay.
  • [07:16] Mike: Um, that's true.
  • [07:20] Keith: It is well I mean it doesn't happen very often like normally it's been collectively bargained or over over time or explicitly So what? what activities are at the table and so if somebody's declining something you know, um.
  • [07:27] Ally: Um, yeah.
  • [07:35] Mike: Yeah, it's a they're they're rejecting I mean it's a rejection So like it's going to lower like the temperature of the situation possibly a lot huh So she took a risk and you reject how would you? what? what? what? What form did your rejection take just like no thanks.
  • [07:37] Keith: Yeah, it's not great.
  • [07:41] Keith: Right? right.
  • [07:48] Keith: I think ah it was it was a 2 letter word and it started with n and ended with o like as you know I probably tried to be a little bit more gentle I don't remember I'd rather not don't know what.
  • [07:53] Mike: Okay, now.
  • [08:01] Ally: I Prefer not to.
  • [08:03] Keith: You you first? Um, no, we don't We don't yeah yeah, but that gets back to the.
  • [08:03] Mike: All right was it so we don't have any expertise here on the on the so we'll have to seek out some expertise to get more information on the ah the analingus front.
  • [08:10] Ally: Um, yeah I get the sense. It's something younger people are doing like very young.
  • [08:22] Keith: Initial point I said that at at um in the and and and our last episode which is I do think that if you could somehow look at if there was like Google trends for the types of sex that people were having I think but we would see that over the last ten years there's been an increase in annoingus and I don't know why.
  • [08:33] Ally: I flip.
  • [08:42] Keith: I Guess it's cultural and I guess as we get.
  • [08:43] Ally: And you think specifically an increase in heterosexual analing is it that the increase is not just that there are more homosexual couplings happening.
  • [08:52] Keith: Oh yes I think yes I think you've independent of that I didn't know is that true is that true that there's more I don't know how they count.
  • [08:55] Ally: Okay.
  • [09:01] Ally: Well self reports of sexuality show increases in all of the yeah like every in every Lg B T denomination or whatever except Lesbians I think um yeah.
  • [09:03] Mike: Grinder.
  • [09:13] Keith: Yeah, but people might feel more liberated to self-report now than ever before.
  • [09:19] Mike: Except Lesbians I would I was sure you were going to say except for Heter Holess ah gay men. You think that the recent sort of like the new flag. They've got with like the diamond or the triangle with the brown silver.
  • [09:20] Ally: Yeah.
  • [09:25] Ally: No no I think there's more of them. Also.
  • [09:37] Mike: There's a lot of colors and I actually have learned what they all mean but I forgot you think that has turned has caused some men to become gay. Okay, no, no, not.
  • [09:44] Ally: No I don't think vexillology in and of itself can switch a man but Keith has been to 75 countries it would have happened fine now. He's seen so many flags 76 congratulations i.
  • [09:49] Keith: Um, so 76
  • [09:57] Mike: Of course mean, not not the not the flags but the cultural shift changing men's perspective my view on that is that Ah, it's interesting because you're on a very tricky precipice there because if you take that position that if if anybody does not you if a researcher were to take the position that.
  • [10:11] Ally: Um.
  • [10:14] Mike: Ah, some cultural change has resulted in a net higher percentage of gay men than that suggests that it actually is a lifestyle choice.
  • [10:22] Ally: Yeah I think being willing to live the lifestyle and not being you know closeted is a choice.
  • [10:29] Mike: Oh but okay so then it's what Keith said which is just like more people self-reporting or more people like ah coming out of the closet as it were in their lives that makes sense otherwise you could say that.
  • [10:38] Ally: Yeah, yeah, and then I'm assuming more people doing but stuff because of this.
  • [10:44] Mike: Sure that makes positive. It's possible.
  • [10:47] Keith: I mean just because you're gay doesn't mean you got to put your mouth on your partner's asshole like.
  • [10:55] Ally: No, but it does it does open up the butt for activities in ways that that sometimes.
  • [10:55] Mike: That's true.
  • [11:00] Keith: I mean yeah I suppose. Okay I don't want to talk about assholes anymore. Clean move on to like something else all right? Um, should we should we do the porn now Mike okay do you want to introduce it to us.
  • [11:06] Mike: Yeah, yes, yes, we should so sure thing So as always we have a porn that we will link in the show notes this one actually is unlisted. It's on Pornhub but it's unlisted. So.
  • [11:21] Ally: I Bless her.
  • [11:22] Keith: How.
  • [11:24] Mike: You're not going to find this one. Ah just by searching around ah and that might make you wonder like how did I find it and we're just going to keep that ah confidential I'm actually not sure I don't remember real answer so we'll start. Yup.
  • [11:35] Ally: Um, but you didn't produce it. It's not something that you made.
  • [11:36] Keith: Ah, there's this 2
  • [11:42] Mike: Ah, it'll be pretty obvious to you that I didn't produce it so why don't we start? ah 6 minutes in to it and we can watch maybe thirty Second yeah let's start at 6 oh o do you have it up there alley. That's great. The alley this alley actually may um.
  • [11:44] Ally: Okay.
  • [11:48] Keith: Okay, exactly 6 minutes okay
  • [11:53] Ally: Yeah, hold on 6
  • [12:00] Mike: Ah, Valley doesn't like this particular activity that much So might it might actually sort of bother. You might trigger some sort of negative. Yeah, that was not my goal. Yeah um, so yes and the the title of this one is actually it's ah yes, the the.
  • [12:06] Ally: That's your goal I know that 6 oh.
  • [12:19] Mike: The author of it or rather the uploader of it to pornhub is Mr Pussy licking Mr Pussy licking so right? yeah and this is an unlisted one. So this is like the secret you know stuff all right? You guys ready.
  • [12:22] Keith: Ah, 220000 subscribers
  • [12:27] Ally: Ah.
  • [12:34] Keith: Yeah I Guess yes.
  • [12:37] Mike: So let's count. We'll do like 30 seconds I'll narrate it so people who choose not to play along and watch along can can understand what's going on. Go ahead and count down all right? So it's a woman on her back. She's moaning and a guy is between her legs giving her oral sex. She appears to be enjoying it. Someone's.
  • [12:43] Keith: Okay, I'm going to start it in 3 2 1 starting.
  • [12:57] Mike: Heavy breathing. Maybe the guy he's she's sort of he's now kissing it. Yeah, she's skinny and seems potentially attractive. Although where you're seeing her is just from her head down. Now you get this really kind of gross look of him. He's sort of looking at her and he's like licking from one end of her vulva to the other. Ah, he's got sort of hair that looks like it's from the 80 s like a surf movie. Yeah blonde. Yeah um.
  • [13:14] Keith: Shit's good abs. Oh ah.
  • [13:25] Keith: Yeah, or maybe a 90 s boy band.
  • [13:25] Ally: Ah, yeah.
  • [13:32] Mike: And yeah, okay, why don't we pause here. Oh she's sort of opening it up from the lick better. Oh my goodness. What's this pause. That's her her underwood. Not yeah, no.
  • [13:38] Ally: What's on the floor next to them is that like her. Oh I thought it was like a little octopus toy or something.
  • [13:39] Keith: Thus are her nannies. It does look like an octopus. Okay.
  • [13:49] Mike: So is this why you don't like oral sex receiving Allie no this the fact that it looks like this so I just want it. So just to be clear. We're watching from over.
  • [13:51] Ally: Yes, this one video I saw this once and I know um.
  • [13:56] Keith: Ah, yeah, what is what is the this pronoun Mike.
  • [14:05] Mike: This is basically female point of view. We're watching from over the woman's head I didn't make that clear in the narration and so this going to give some idea of what a woman sees. Although you're sort of above her head but it gives an idea but but Alie Why don't you give us what your thoughts are on this.
  • [14:20] Ally: Yeah, this is not why I don't like it I mean these 2 people seem to be having an ok time. Um, the reason I don't like it is much more for the psychological aspect than than the physical aspect or what it looks like.
  • [14:35] Mike: Okay I would I would attach the psychology and the visual elements together. But why don't you say so psychologically. Okay I know why I don't like it but okay, let's tell us a.
  • [14:40] Ally: Um, um, even if I have my eyes closed.
  • [14:51] Mike: Was a couple more sentences about why? What's the psychological aspect. You don't want someone pleasuring you.
  • [14:56] Ally: Yeah I don't want that to be the entire focus and I also worry about you know if they don't like the way it tastes or smells or something that they're going to kind of power through it because they think that it's what I really want when. When I've received it. It hasn't been as effective as other techniques or other activities. Um, and so it's not It's not the 1 thing that I want and I feel like it has much more potential to be unpleasant or tedious for the man.
  • [15:20] Mike: Right.
  • [15:28] Mike: Are you certain that when it's less effective than other techniques. It's not because of the psychological dimension. In other words, if you were certain.
  • [15:34] Ally: But that that factors in yeah, it's a feedback loop I'm sure. Yeah, okay.
  • [15:36] Keith: I have a I have a potential tip here. So I too do not like receiving moral sex I have I have discovered something over the last say I don't know year or so that.
  • [15:53] Ally: And.
  • [15:55] Keith: Can make it more more enjoyable for me which is if I am stoned I Enjoy it better and I think what's happening there is it's removing the insecurity aspect of it or or at least partially removing the insecurity aspect of it I feel less insecure.
  • [15:58] Ally: Ah, fine.
  • [16:09] Mike: Can you say more about that.
  • [16:09] Ally: Yeah.
  • [16:13] Keith: I Mean sometimes when I'm when I'm stoned I'll I'll have some paranoia but not not often. The reason why I mentioned that is that would seem to fly in the face of feeling less insecure but in my life generally.
  • [16:21] Mike: What are you insecure about? no no yeah yeah, no, let's let's stay away from that. Ah, what are you insecure about ah when a woman has her mouth encased around your gorgeous penis.
  • [16:33] Keith: Right? Yeah I don't I Yeah I don't like the I don't like the asymmetry I don't like that like I'm the focus of the of the activity Mike is making a face as if he can't even possibly relate to such a of a feeling and. Yeah I mean I don't know if I worry about how I smell and taste I Just think that like penises smell and taste and look and sound disgusting generally and like yeah, it's just hard for me to understand somebody wanting to do that activity and look I've gone through plenty of therapy on this show. I.
  • [17:11] Ally: Ah.
  • [17:12] Keith: And know that people can actually want to give me a blowjob. Um, but yeah weed helps with that insecurity aspect I just wanted to mention that um it might.
  • [17:20] Ally: Um, yeah.
  • [17:22] Mike: Does it change your ability to orgasm though.
  • [17:31] Keith: Make it slightly harder I don't get stoned very often I would say once or twice a month over the last year and that's more than I ever had in the past and so I'm still sort of learning a bit I can pay more attention to that in report pack. Maybe.
  • [17:32] Mike: Okay.
  • [17:44] Mike: Okay, let's see I just think it's a shame for both of you but Allie in particular here. Yeah because I mean most women do report that physically it's very gratifying I actually put this video on though because I wanted to talk about how gross it is to be in the woman's for a man to to view that. Ah. That yeah let's just say I wouldn't masturbate to this video.
  • [18:06] Ally: Yeah, it's It's not showing very much of anything like you don't see.
  • [18:11] Mike: I Just don't want a man I Just don't want a man licking my crotch. Yeah, that's true. Um, yeah I don't seeing the guy in that way. It's yeah, it's it's It's just it's too. It's too X rated for me too much.
  • [18:11] Keith: It's almost I was impressed. It could almost be G rated like that you you can barely even see her vagina. Yeah.
  • [18:16] Ally: And.
  • [18:26] Keith: Mike You don't find you don't find like I mean you know she's she's in very good shape. Her skin is basically flawless and she's performing obviously but you don't find like her her hip machinations attractive.
  • [18:26] Ally: Um.
  • [18:36] Mike: Yeah I do I Just really don't like seeing the guy's face doing that activity. It bothers me. Yeah I wouldn't want to like wake up and have a guy doing that to me.
  • [18:46] Keith: I Say where do you think where do you think the microphone is in the shot like because you can hear him breathing and her moaning. It's like I think there must be like a good microphone above them I I think there is I think just off camera.
  • [18:57] Mike: That's true.
  • [18:58] Ally: Maybe there's like a boom right out you know over them right out of sight. Um.
  • [19:04] Mike: Yeah, well Mr Pussy looking Mr Pussy liquor Mr. Pussy licking Mr Pussy licking has ah obviously it's professionally produced probably but as most amateur I'm not I'm not a rube here I know that the amateur porn that i.
  • [19:06] Keith: Because it sounds that the sound is too good. It can't be an Iphone licking.
  • [19:21] Mike: Ah, prefer is generally professionally produced I know that so.
  • [19:23] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this woman doesn't appear to have a single body hair like below her forehead. It's perfectly smooth all right? Um, let's see here. Okay I wanted to talk about this one.
  • [19:31] Ally: Um, yeah.
  • [19:35] Mike: No.
  • [19:43] Keith: And it yeah sort of plays into something that alie's mentioned in the past. Okay, so this person says why do men tell me to come during sex. How should I respond I made it a goal to stop faking orgasms but my sexual partners have been making it difficult oftentimes when I'm having sex with a vocal man after five to ten minutes he'll tell me to come on this dick girl. Not all men have done this but I don't remember the last time the man was vocal during sex and didn't tell me to come at some point I'm really curious as to the reasoning behind this because it does nothing for me except take me out of the moment by making me feel like I should be having an orgasm that I'm nowhere near having questions that have occurred to me over the years do they think telling me to come will turn me on so much that I actually have an orgasm.
  • [20:02] Mike: Um, not.
  • [20:22] Keith: Are they commanding me like their words will magically make me come are they trying to let me know it's okay to come as if I'm intentionally holding back on them. Do they expect all women to come after 5 to 10 minutes of penetration and so they assume at that point I must be close or do they actually realize that if they keep saying it I'll just fake it I'm assuming they want me to come so they don't feel guilty when they do when they do. But what are these men expecting to happen when they tell me to orgasm this is probably just a sign that I should communicate more before initiating sex. But I really like any input on why this happens and how should I respond to it.
  • [20:49] Mike: Yeah I want to hear what out why Allie thinks it happens and whether it happens to her.
  • [20:54] Ally: I This specific people don't tell me usually to come while I'm having sex with them. But I think in this case, it is just that men are not very good for the most part at Dirty talk if they haven't practiced it or if they don't have a particular interest in that. So I think that in. In the case of this person writing this post that she's just with men who want to say something dirty and kind of don't have a large repertoire.
  • [21:18] Mike: You give me, can you give us so this this is an example for you of bad dirty talk. Can you give me say 2 examples of good dirty talk that you've heard a guy. Yeah well you seem to have some opinions.
  • [21:28] Ally: I. Nothing comes to mind but I would just say that a lot of people don't have a variety of of phrases. You know.
  • [21:34] Keith: Um, something.
  • [21:34] Mike: Oh come on all right? So I'll say some I'll say some things and you tell me if would give me give me a rating on 1 to 10 all right? Ah, ah you like that cock don't you? How's that that is that good.
  • [21:43] Ally: Yeah I've definitely heard that before. Yeah very common. That's good. Yeah.
  • [21:53] Mike: But you can set men are bad at it so that ah that sounds okay, fine. So that one was okay that you've heard a man say okay, you don't like a come on this dick though that you're not happy with that 1 right.
  • [21:58] Ally: Um, I'm just saying I don't think he's saying it because he actually is trying to command her to do So I think he wants to say something that sounds sexy and those are the phrases that come up.
  • [22:08] Mike: Okay, okay, we can I try a couple other ones Keith really fast. Um.
  • [22:09] Keith: Okay, wait wait hold on hold up. Well I'm deciding whether I want because I'm really excited to hear what but I want to but I want to I want to just interject something. Yeah I think that um he is saying it well.
  • [22:21] Mike: That.
  • [22:28] Keith: But no all right like you go ahead first. Go ahead I'm I'm going to write down my thoughts I don't forget.
  • [22:28] Mike: Okay, ah, do you want me to paint that face white. What's wrong with that.
  • [22:35] Ally: That's terrible. Yeah, but.
  • [22:36] Keith: Um.
  • [22:38] Ally: Ah, to to Euphem Mystic I think
  • [22:45] Mike: Do you? Okay, so do you want me to spew my nut all over your eyelash eye eyelids baby baby I'm going to glue your eyelids shut. Okay, ah.
  • [22:51] Ally: Ah, also not good I don't I don't think spew spew reminds me of like vomiting. No no, you have to use at least 1 like sexy word.
  • [23:00] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [23:04] Mike: Okay, what's this give me an example of a sexy word. Okay, but not okay so there's just probably some regional variation here. You don't find nut to be a compelling word right.
  • [23:09] Ally: Like Cock or Commarine Fuck or.
  • [23:21] Keith: Regional foods like the different sweet soda and pop.
  • [23:21] Ally: Yeah, no, but I also think spew and paint and glue like these are all normal words these.
  • [23:24] Mike: Right? ah.
  • [23:28] Mike: Okay, ah ah I'm gonna come in you now bitch you like okay I'm trying what's what's it 10
  • [23:35] Ally: Yeah, that that could work that's like a 5 Maybe.
  • [23:40] Keith: See some people so some people like some people like being told they're a bad girl and some people like being told they're a good girl and people can be wildly divergent on it. Some people like both.
  • [23:48] Ally: Um, yeah, um.
  • [23:52] Mike: Okay, ah be a good girl or else I'll lick your asshole Keith what's an example? can you try one that she might give a 10
  • [23:57] Keith: Um.
  • [24:02] Keith: Ah, no I'm too embarrassed. This is this like conversation makes me squim I think I might be 1 of these people who's like not good. That's sexy talk like it's um, it.
  • [24:05] Mike: How lord.
  • [24:13] Mike: How about this? don't look at me while I fuck you. I listen snap but all right.
  • [24:21] Ally: Ah, so and.
  • [24:27] Ally: Ah I mean again, like it has to there has to be a narrative. It can't just be these individual short phrases and I find that a lot of men have 1 or 2 short phrases that they enjoy saying and they'll you know say it maybe once or twice during the session and then you know not connect it to other.
  • [24:38] Keith: For go tos.
  • [24:42] Mike: Is it like is a ten is a 10 like telling you to do something like for example, beg beg me for it or something like that is that a 10 or like um, okay, okay, okay.
  • [24:50] Ally: No I think I think a 10 is like a you know a narrative where you really feel like they're talking to you and it's not just these short exhortations. Um, yeah.
  • [25:00] Keith: You don't want trite dirty talk.
  • [25:01] Mike: Right? So right? Okay, so it's it's pretty good. Yes, this is impossible to do basically because think about this so what Allie wants and probably by extension many women. Maybe most women is they want you to come up with some basically like romance novel that you're going to run through while having sex with them so you have to remember.
  • [25:15] Ally: Um I.
  • [25:21] Mike: The romance novel you Yeah imagine you have like these these this sheaf of papers near the pillow. You're like kind of madly flipping through as you're trying to thrust all right.
  • [25:28] Ally: Um, I think you want it to be that they're describing what they're thinking about or describing what they're seeing and feeling kind of as they're doing it.
  • [25:28] Keith: You could bring Cue cards with you so that you don't you know, forget important platforms.
  • [25:40] Keith: Is it being is personalization important so you know like if it well. Okay, obviously it's not good to you know, call someone Claire when their name is Susan.
  • [25:41] Mike: Okay. The.
  • [25:46] Ally: In what like in what way.
  • [25:56] Ally: Um, great. Yeah.
  • [25:58] Keith: Ah, so you know that that level of personalization is good. But yeah like I don't know something relevant to you like oh I love your dark Bush baby instead of like is a but you know someone was you know someone was a brunette as opposed to a redhead or blonde.
  • [26:15] Mike: You you better like you better come quickly or else I'll perform oral on you that be personalized you right? Yeah I already did analingus I Keep yeah mine are all threats.
  • [26:17] Keith: I Don't know like.
  • [26:17] Ally: Oh.
  • [26:20] Keith: Right? Yeah, that would be personalized for Allie.
  • [26:24] Ally: Um, right right? Yeah, yeah, they're all kind of just short directive phrases that I feel right? yeah.
  • [26:29] Keith: Ah, and threatening. Yeah I'm good I'm gonna I'm gonna paint your uterus white. Um, it would be hard to be very long.
  • [26:39] Ally: Um, some personalization could be good. Yeah.
  • [26:39] Mike: That would be really hard some personalization. Okay, all right? What was the topic again. Key.
  • [26:49] Ally: Um, well so she's like really going into overthinking you know? yeah and what do they want and I think she should just basically ignore it because I think they're just trying to say something sexy to like keep the mood going.
  • [26:49] Keith: Um, oh yeah, why did men ask her. Why did men ask her to come right? Sorry go ahead I like.
  • [27:01] Mike: Oh got it. So you think that? yeah you don't think they want anything. They just want to keep fucking So I don't think that's right actually I think that they ah believe I think that there is a really large percentage of men and it's.
  • [27:06] Ally: Um, yeah, yeah.
  • [27:18] Mike: Yeah, well you know this from listening to the podcast. There's I believe there's a very large percentage of men who are extremely confused about what causes a woman to orgasm and Porn is extremely detrimental in this particular way. Maybe it's the most detrimental aspect of porn and so I think that they think I think that some large percentage of men think.
  • [27:28] Ally: Um.
  • [27:37] Mike: That yeah that that will work and the woman will have an orgasm and I do not think they think that they're going to Trigger Fake orgasms. Ah yeah I think most men would be upset if they thought it was going to trigger that but they just like don't put in enough analysis and don't have enough ability to communicate with their.
  • [27:50] Ally: Home.
  • [27:54] Mike: Female partner to even know that that's going on.
  • [27:55] Ally: Yeah, so Keith have you ever done this have you ever told someone to come and then they came immediately and you were like god I'm so good at this.
  • [28:02] Mike: Fall for sure.
  • [28:03] Keith: I Mean definitely the the last thing you said there? Um, the I think what's going on here. Well I think there's a couple things going on here and no, no, no, no no I have never told someone to come for me baby because I don't think.
  • [28:14] Mike: She's not going to tell you.
  • [28:21] Keith: Yeah, like the only thing okay saying that saying that to a man. Okay, we'll get back to you in a mid like saying that to a man can be pretty hot like you're like being you know a lot of men like that sort of like permission play and a lot of men spend their time having sex trying not to orgasm. So.
  • [28:21] Mike: All I have all right.
  • [28:31] Mike: Um, yeah.
  • [28:33] Ally: Um, okay.
  • [28:40] Keith: Being explicitly given permission and believing that they're being given permission like the person isn't just saying it performatively right.
  • [28:44] Mike: And the man likes the idea that the woman actually cares about him his orgasm which is can be the case I think like in in in the moment but it's generally not like no woman I mean in most cases women don't care about men orgasming like ah yeah.
  • [28:56] Keith: Right? And so and so you know men probably by and large like hearing their their partners say you know come for me baby. But yeah with women like the last thing that most women want is to have like. As they're getting close to orgasm suddenly a lot of pressure to orgasm right? Like there's ah, there's like a cerebral thing going on and so it's like a paradox that ruins it for them and so yeah.
  • [29:21] Ally: Oh.
  • [29:23] Mike: It could go the other way though. Keith because if you know what I was going to say in terms of I've said it is like if you basically know they're going to it makes it a little hotter for them because I do want to amend what I said before though there are women I know this because I'm various subreddits I frequent there are women who like ah.
  • [29:29] Keith: Oh sure. Sure.
  • [29:41] Mike: Paradoxically or perplexingly men's watching men's orgasms to the extent that there are videos that women watch and like apparently that are just just just men masturbating to Orgas like again and again just guys nutting while masturbating so it's just it's just it's just nut after nut after Nut. Usually with the guy moaning that matters to women for some reason so there are women that enjoy that dikes. Yeah,, that's not my favorite style of Porn. It might be my least favorite. Actually maybe we could review one of those porns just a guy disguise.
  • [30:03] Ally: Yeah I think I might enjoy that. Yeah, that makes sense that you and I would have polar opposite tastes. Um.
  • [30:17] Mike: Just nutting nut just nut everywhere.
  • [30:23] Keith: Um, okay, you guys. Okay I'm gonna I'm gonna move this forward. Ah so this person posted on the sugar Lifestyle Forum which of course is the subreddit for sugar daddies sugar babies. Ah this is I don't know if this is more of a.
  • [30:27] Mike: Yeah.
  • [30:42] Keith: Potentially higherb brow conversation than we usually have so let's see if we can hold it together here. This person says sugar babies who have ambitious goals and dreams. Do you ever regret this lifestyle as a shortcut or a quote unquote cheat coat I am a twenty year old female going to a good school that I worked hard to get accepted to and I have big career goals and dreams. I'm aware of this lifestyle I know some people who do this and ah this being sugaring I know some people who do this and it is sometimes very tempting I get asked if I model and I get attention for my looks before anybody knows anything else about me I don't really need to try just have a certain look and I'm at the right age not trying to sound vaein. It's just the way it is the thing is I have a younger brother who I've always been kind of competitive with. Parents encouraged it and drove us to excel and both got accepted to different ivy league schools. We both have ambitious career and personal goals. Our parents set us up with the first year paid for and we are going to figure out the rest ourselves it would be so easy to sugar for a little while and just sock away the money for tuition. Some friends who do this and they come away from rich and they come from rich families where college is all paid for so they do it for handbags and exotic trips. The thing is my brother doesn't have that option. He's working in a job. He's working a job in addition to studying and truly busting his ass I just feel like wherever we end up later on he will have truly worked for it and I will have leveraged my youth and beauty as a kind of cheat code or a shortcut. Almost done here I consider myself a feminist also and I am aware of how long and hard women have had to struggle to be taken as equals in the workplace and afforded the same places as at the table this feels like a step back I'm not disparaging anyone who does this I'm just torn and trying to sort it out under how many shorter babies end up having regrets either during or after that's sort of a different discussion. The root.
  • [32:13] Ally: Um.
  • [32:14] Keith: Regret discussion. But um, my thought is that her brother's gonna have plenty advantages soon enough. Um, and she should yeah I feel like she should just dive in and like if she can.
  • [32:23] Ally: Yeah I don't know why she's concerned about what her brother will feel about this.
  • [32:33] Keith: Monetize her sexuality. Ah she should absolutely do that. But I think Mike might deal. Otherwise.
  • [32:36] Mike: I Think it to yeah well there. Ah I think that's yeah, it depends on her attitude about what she wants to have happen in her life. Um, the risk to her I don't think is I mean there's some like physical risk. You know you're basically like like I know from frequenting.
  • [32:44] Ally: Um.
  • [32:55] Mike: Some of these forums that like there is a decent overlap between sugaring and something more like escorting she can probably manage that just by how she interacts with ah the men in question. Um, and I agree completely. The main risk that a woman is going to have is going to be the fact that many women.
  • [32:59] Keith: Yeah.
  • [33:11] Keith: Regret out.
  • [33:14] Mike: No no, the they many women choose to sorry I mean I mean sorry I was jumping at the main risk women have I think in Visa V Her brother is that that they many women choose to exit the workforce for a period of time when they have kids and that decreases their opportunities. So yeah I Totally agree about the ah um, him having advantages.
  • [33:32] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [33:34] Mike: Ah, however, the main risk I see for her in this is that it may make it difficult for her to actually if if having a normal relationship with a guy is her 1 of her life goals. It may make that difficult because ah once you go down this path. You may have difficulty actually tolerating. Ah, guy who's not basically paying you or wealthy and that may not be conducive. it could be. yeah it could be
  • [33:56] Keith: Is that bad. Well okay, just for the sake of argument. Let's say she dates you know a series of 40 to 50 year old wealthy, successful charming gentleman and she develops a taste for that fine elixir and you know then after making. So money that way she decides she wants to find a partner more her age but she finds man her age sort of intolerable for various reasons.
  • [34:28] Mike: Yeah, right? So I mean the 1 thing look I think all this stuff's great sugaring and all this sort of stuff but I'm also aware of the fact that like there's a ah people the there's a set of men out there who don't aren't sugar daddies and. And there's there's a different sort of personality style there and by that like yeah, you're you're still dating look even though they're fine and charming and all this sort of stuff you're still dating a guy who's chosen to pay for sex right? and so that is a self-selected group of people.
  • [35:00] Keith: Right.
  • [35:05] Mike: And that may not be the kind of person that she wants to ultimately marry.
  • [35:07] Ally: Um, I mean I think the difficulty like the comparison with the brother I think is more like 1 of the commenters points out at the opportunity cost that if you're in an ivy league school. You have job opportunities or internship opportunities that aren't just.
  • [35:09] Keith: But we'll go ahead.
  • [35:25] Ally: Working at Mcdonald's so if her brother has a job and is at a similar school. Maybe he's actually getting real experience building connections like people who are going to write recommendation letters for him later on or something um, which is something that she's not getting from this arrangement but then.
  • [35:37] Keith: Well hold on not necessarily I mean it could be the case. It could be the case that the guy is wealthy and well-conneed like if she's as attractive as she describes I the problem is when you're 20 like how are you going to recognize this but like you you could have say you know 10 different potential men who want to date you.
  • [35:39] Mike: She could. Yeah.
  • [35:41] Ally: Um, first.
  • [35:54] Ally: And.
  • [35:56] Keith: And you know 3 of them might be wellconneced in the industry or an industry that you could potentially be interested in and that connection could be worth way more than you know, having an internship in a radio station if you want to be you know a broadcaster I'm I'm not sure you correct.
  • [36:04] Mike: That's right.
  • [36:08] Ally: Yeah, so yeah, if if she can somehow find that you know if she can very selectively target those people who will help her in her career then it could be more beneficial but like I guess that's what I would see is depending on what she wants to do is maybe the opportunity cost and the other risk being you know if.
  • [36:08] Mike: And look.
  • [36:17] Keith: Ryan.
  • [36:27] Ally: If she's in a relatively small town or market or something like maybe she runs into people. She does want to work for later or runs into professors or something and that could be something that she doesn't want to do.
  • [36:29] Keith: Um, yeah, yes, yeah.
  • [36:36] Mike: Me the the ah yeah I mean developing relationships with people that have access to money is almost always going to be useful regardless of the career but 1 other thing I want to point out here is ah keep in mind that while she's saying that she's going to an ivy league school. It's probably Cornell.
  • [36:38] Keith: Writer.
  • [36:54] Keith: Wow I feel like I do what cornell joke was coming I was going to preempt it because she said that they're going to different Ivy League schools and I I was going to say something like well she should say what they are so that we can judge immediately.
  • [36:55] Mike: So there's that.
  • [36:56] Ally: A very small town then I mean how many people in ithaca are on these forums like where will she find people I.
  • [37:12] Ally: Um, no.
  • [37:12] Mike: Right? there you go.
  • [37:14] Keith: Ah, should have preempted it because I knew it would come ha.
  • [37:19] Keith: I think Cornell is the second to worst ivy league school. So at least we're not the worst I think yeah I would think Dartmouth or brown.
  • [37:24] Ally: As Dartmouth is brown the worst or is Dartmouth the worst. Okay.
  • [37:25] Mike: Doesn't mean anything. They're all, they're all a. I Think they're all the worst now because they're all woked out So That's my opinion I think people should go to some other country. Probably.
  • [37:36] Keith: Do you even have to take the SAT to get into ivy league schools anymore.
  • [37:41] Mike: Not not if you're a jedi.
  • [37:45] Keith: Um, all right? Let's we should definitely move on now. Ah, ah this person says my girlfriend still has a toy based on an x a few days ago. My 25 year old male girlfriends. Sorry mine. So this guy is a 25 year old male and his girlfriend's 24 ah, my girlfriend's friend was round and we ended up talking about those kits that allow guys to make a dildo from their cock. Are you guys aware of this by the way. Okay, all right? But yeah you so yeah.
  • [38:10] Mike: Hello cats.
  • [38:13] Ally: I've heard of it I've never seen one in real life. No, but no I've I've heard of the concept I've never of 1 Well I mean do I want it to be very small I ah.
  • [38:14] Mike: Oh you all 1 if you were gonna get 1 of 1 of us whose cock would you want? Oh wow.
  • [38:27] Keith: Wow Wow! This is all hearsay by the way it it started it started as like a a joke and then it became a meme and now it's like okay anyway, ah my girlfriend mentiones chins and X do one for.
  • [38:31] Ally: Ah, right right.
  • [38:42] Ally: Oh.
  • [38:44] Keith: She she had an X do one for a present once and got and it got me thinking She has a small collection of a few plugs a vibrator in a dildo. The Dildo doesn't exactly look like the one of the standard ones. You'd buy online so I figured maybe it was the same one I asked her if the dilda was the one her ex made for her and she said it was I got a bit angry and told her she should throw it out.
  • [39:00] Mike: Nice.
  • [39:02] Keith: I Know she still uses it and we've even used it together once she called me insecure and said there was no reason to throw it out. Do you think I overreacted I don't know what to think now.
  • [39:16] Ally: I would I would definitely feel weird about it and I do think she should throw it out but it's also the sort of thing where you don't want to have to be in the position of having to ask someone to get rid of it right? She should have just spontaneously gotten rid of it.
  • [39:17] Mike: That's a tough one. What do you think? Ali.
  • [39:30] Mike: You're saying if a guy you knew that you weren't sexually involved with gave you a dildo of his penis. You wouldn't use it. It was but I'm just checking.
  • [39:36] Ally: Oh wait I thought this was her ex-boyfriends like oh so if it if it was someone that I was not sexual involved with that's different. Um, maybe maybe if it if it looked nice. Yeah I.
  • [39:38] Keith: It was like Mike was wondering if he mails you a mold of his penis.
  • [39:46] Mike: Then you'd use it.
  • [39:52] Mike: Wow. Okay.
  • [39:53] Keith: Keep an eye keep an eye out on your mail for the next week Allie
  • [39:54] Ally: But this is this is like something that yeah, okay, good. My mom is at my place she um yeah if you have if you have access to a 3 d printer and you send not just a dick pick but a dick ob j.
  • [40:00] Mike: Um, that should be a neutron. It's like sending. It's like sending a dick pic. But it's like more aggressive, really funny If let me just.
  • [40:07] Keith: That's 3 dimensional thick pick.
  • [40:13] Ally: To art like that would be yeah that would be great I I would appreciate the effort.
  • [40:15] Mike: You I Just like the idea that of women getting this is a thing that should exist I mean it's it shouldn't It shouldn't because it's abusive. No no, no, no. But this idea that you could like ah guys could like send their crush or not even like.
  • [40:22] Keith: It It does it does exist.
  • [40:32] Mike: Yeah, I'm just imagining some very attractive woman celebrity just getting thousands of these. That's what I'm imagining. Yeah okay, but go on sorry.
  • [40:37] Ally: Um, yeah.
  • [40:38] Keith: Um, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah.
  • [40:43] Ally: Yeah I think I think the issues that you know if I were in that guy's shoes. Yeah I wouldn't want to know that my partner has kept a mold of the Genitalia of their previous partner that seems very intimate like.
  • [40:55] Keith: Okay, well hold on let's steal man the the girlfriend's case here. Okay, let let's say they're young. They don't have much money she has this dildo. She's not comfortable buying another dildo. Although she did have a bunch of other sex toys.
  • [41:09] Ally: It says she has a yeah she has a whole collection. How much.
  • [41:11] Mike: I hope when they were playing with it as a couple she made him suck it I like that suck my suck. My ex's dick all of it would you would not be hot to is ellic and 8 wait stuck.
  • [41:18] Ally: Um, right I mean that's terrible. Yeah, no, that's that's like a zero that's.
  • [41:20] Keith: Or or take or.
  • [41:31] Mike: Because I'd be gay that suck your ex is dick suck your exs dick right now. Oh okay, fine all right? Yeah, so there's.
  • [41:34] Ally: No I don't think you want to bring up. Yeah, maybe this is something where I'm more territorial about it than either of you guys like maybe Keith wouldn't mind but I don't I don't want I don't want my partner's x is you know involved in.
  • [41:39] Keith: Yeah, that's.
  • [41:47] Mike: Um.
  • [41:53] Mike: So so if your if your partner had a mold of the vagina of his X and used it as a flashlight occasionally as a masturbation toy you would ask him to replace it with a generic one is that fair.
  • [41:54] Ally: And my relationship with my partner at all.
  • [42:06] Ally: Yeah, or I would break up with him I mean that seems so offensive.
  • [42:11] Mike: Even if he was poor. You'd break see if he was poor. You'd break up with him anyway because he's poor say there we go. That's right.
  • [42:12] Keith: Um I don't think it is.
  • [42:15] Ally: Exactly Yeah I mean why bother But think ah.
  • [42:19] Keith: She should be able to write. Yeah, the the excuse that he can't afford it but would not would not fly with you I don't Okay, it's mildly offensive. But if it was thoughtless or I mean I mean look if your X is like constantly masturbating with.
  • [42:24] Ally: A woman.
  • [42:26] Mike: Right.
  • [42:37] Keith: Pictures or 3 dimensional objects that are specifically yeah evoking memories of her ex and that's that's obviously a problem in in the situation where she's just lazy or thoughtless I mean I don't really like lazy or thoughtless people. So.
  • [42:46] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
  • [42:57] Keith: That that might be a reason itself but I don't think it's like a reason to be I don't think it's super offensive as you said like I think it's just sort of awkward.
  • [43:06] Mike: It's odd achieve and told him she could have just said this is my dildo I bought it? no.
  • [43:07] Ally: Right? yeah.
  • [43:08] Keith: No, he was able to tell because it looked unusual. Maybe it had a curve or a vein in a place where you wouldn't expect it or something I'm not sure but is there something about Bill Clinton's penis that I don't know.
  • [43:17] Mike: Huh so sort of like a bill a Bill Clinton penis
  • [43:19] Ally: Um, yeah, she she could have said.
  • [43:23] Mike: Yeah, yeah, it's curved in a certain way. That's how like all the that's why that's how you know he's a rapist or whatever a serial whatever you want to call him is because the women all know this thing about him and they're always right.
  • [43:30] Ally: Ah, yeah, yeah, ah.
  • [43:34] Keith: While right the big big. They're like oh you saw the mole at at four o'clock on the shafty. Okay.
  • [43:41] Mike: Yes.
  • [43:42] Ally: So yeah, she could have just said that it was one of those like celebrity. You know oh this is Richard Gears penis or something which like.
  • [43:49] Keith: What if he did research and checked online and it was obviously not and you know sometimes the lie can be worth it worse than the crime.
  • [43:57] Ally: Yeah I mean that would that would be only if like she really wanted to keep it and couldn't I guess afford I'm looking up right now. How much these are well she has his right? The the new.
  • [44:05] Mike: Well, she doesn't have a penis of her own to mold. Oh she could penis the new book mold you but that's a slippery slope alley Slippery slope you're just molding and molding and molding as you break up with people I mean where does it end. It's ridiculous.
  • [44:16] Ally: These are only this is like it's $40 so I looked up the mold. The mold is $40 I think if you have a new partner you can afford perhaps as a gift to get a new mold.
  • [44:18] Keith: Yeah, your your your carbon footprint expands as you make hundreds of Penis Molds molded penis.
  • [44:33] Ally: Explain that this is something that you like and make a new one.
  • [44:34] Mike: Yeah, right.
  • [44:34] Keith: Yeah, but what's the environmental impact of such profligate penis molding All right, Let's move on. Um this one's a little bit long but I think it's interesting because this person's like the opposite of me and is very confusing. So this person says.
  • [44:41] Mike: Now will never not.
  • [44:44] Ally: Um.
  • [44:54] Keith: Have an unhealthy sexual obsession with my wife help title says it All. We've been married for almost ten years. We have three kids together. She's my absolute fantasy Woman. Her body is literally my perfect female form she may may she may not be that to someone else, but in my eyes every inch of her screams Sex. So the way I read that sentence is she's not even that attractive. Every curve is perfect. Every smile and facial expression makes me weak and hard as a rock constantly even her voice the way she does things I have to constantly control myself or I'd bend her over whatever was nearby and fuck the shit out of her multiple times a day. No matter where we are when she orgasms which is almost every time we make love.
  • [45:27] Mike: Says citizen.
  • [45:29] Keith: Her squeals and convulsions just about make me pass out from coming so hard sounds great right in reality. Not so much. It's nearly impossible for me to concentrate on mundane family activities everyday normal conversations. Family time with her kids she loves sex with me and accommodates me often, but it is still not enough all day I'm thinking of fucking her. Work at the gym any time I'm not with her fantasizing about her and counting the minutes until I can race home and have sex with her. She never has an opportunity to initiate because I'm already doing it. It's exhausting for both of us I don't have these thoughts are urgest for any other women I don't find porn interesting I don't dream of fucking celebrities or strangers casual acquaintances. Just want to be inside. My wife's vaina 31 and for some reason we go. We go a few to several days between lovemaking and become irritable moody and clingy to her. There are times when she just has to fly tell me no and I understand and try to accept it because she's a human being with her own body control and not just my fuck toy.
  • [46:06] Mike: Ah, a.
  • [46:21] Keith: Never take her against her will I suppose I should be grateful to her for accommodating me as much as she does. There's 1 more paragraph we've talked about this many times usually while laying in bed in a pool of our own sweat and talked about sex counseling for us and obsession compulsion counseling for me which makes a lot of sense and she's going to eventually tire of all this and I'm going to be either masturbating to her pictures.
  • [46:29] Mike: Enough.
  • [46:39] Keith: All the time or having to take some kind of medication to inhibit sex drive either sound like great options. Does anyone have any ideas I'm in heaven when making love to my perfect wife and miserable when I'm not.
  • [46:50] Mike: Sounds like a woman's fantasy man. It also reminds me of that Reddit meme of the guy of the person who was saying. Ah oh I just remember the quote is like all off I would pick his dead wife also or whatever do you know this one.
  • [47:03] Ally: Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, this this sounds fake. It also sounds unhealthy I think the commenters who think that he has like O C D or something have an interesting idea.
  • [47:04] Keith: Right.
  • [47:07] Mike: Reminds me of that.
  • [47:15] Keith: Okay, let's presume for a moment. It's not fake I mean it's definitely maladaptive to behave this way like as a man you are supposed to want to have sex a lot but constantly. Yes.
  • [47:20] Ally: 1
  • [47:27] Mike: Oh here we go with different women.
  • [47:33] Keith: So like what happened to his brain that like made it zero in on just this one target.
  • [47:39] Ally: I mean Ocd like you're supposed to want to close the door only once you have Ocd you want to close it 19 times like he says it interrupts you know it interrupts like family time it interrupts work like that's classic. You know addictive.
  • [47:52] Mike: Um, what does that even mean so he's sitting I'm just imagine he has kids you're sitting at the dinner table hey pass the rice and then you just have this massive hard on.
  • [47:59] Ally: Um, apparently right like that's what he's describing.
  • [48:02] Keith: Um, he can never wear sweatants or also traumatize his children. Yes.
  • [48:05] Mike: Okay, we're supposed to pretend. We're supposed to pretend this is real so find that you so I guess yes he has a massive heart on all the time these guys like for priapus. Yeah.
  • [48:08] Ally: Yeah.
  • [48:16] Ally: Um, yeah, yeah I think.
  • [48:19] Keith: Yeah I mean I just don't think I don't and and I cannot relate to this at all. It's hard for me to even imagine what a hypothetical experience would but I mean I think a lot of men are are much closer to this than I am like for me. In most of my sexual relationships I become I don't want to say ambivalent but ah to a point where like I can control my sex drive and I want sex. You know a few times a week and that's that's that um. And I don't know if that's a little bit less than normal or not I know that everybody likes to claim that they have sex with their partners. You know, 9 times a week but I don't think that's actually true in the long run. But this man is describing something where like he's just totally insatiable and he's like redlining on sex drive at all times and that's. Seems like a strange experience.
  • [49:13] Mike: Yeah I mean you already have there's all kinds of problems. There's the semen problem right? I mean his semen's up in there and then he's one of you go up in there again and again. Ah yeah I mean there's just I don't I don't know.
  • [49:26] Ally: Yeah I guess there's 2 issues. 1 issue is the monogamy issue which I don't really have a problem with if he says I'm really only attracted to my wife I don't find other women attractive that's fine. The thing I have a problem with is where he's describing it as being compulsive and that he. Can't stop thinking about it even when he's supposed to be thinking about other things and that he gets irritable when they go more than a day without having sex and that he thinks it's kind of bothering her sometimes and if that were anything else if he was like you know I I need to like turn off the stove 5 times and you know I mean it would it would be compulsive in any other.
  • [50:03] Keith: Um, it's funny. Yeah, like my reaction is.
  • [50:03] Mike: Well, but men male sex drive is a little bit compulsive I mean that's not I mean ah Keiths masturbates keeps masturbating right now let's put it that way.
  • [50:04] Ally: And scenario.
  • [50:11] Ally: Um, right? yeah.
  • [50:12] Keith: Now I I wanted to like say this like my reaction is like the exact opposite of Alleys like it's it's that the monogamy part his father or some like like like his his insistence that the only thing that he ever feels any sexual desire for is his wife.
  • [50:21] Mike: Right? I agree with that.
  • [50:22] Ally: Hello.
  • [50:32] Keith: Is as Mike said like the female fantasy like it. It would be nice if like most men felt like that. But I think this man is extremely unusual that in that sense and then yeah like his sense of like always wanting to have sex. Well I think I would feel that way if there was like infinite supply of.
  • [50:36] Mike: It's outrageous.
  • [50:52] Keith: You know new strange around me all the time myself and so like that part I can kind of relate to although I'm forty one now so like I don't even know I at least I can relate to that part. It's the like hyper focus on on the 1 person that I find offensive.
  • [51:09] Mike: Yeah I mean he must find a lot of advertising and television shows confusing I mean there's so much culture that is aimed at ah peaking the male sex drive. You know making a man interested in a new woman. So all that must be totally confusing.
  • [51:10] Ally: Oh yeah.
  • [51:21] Keith: Yeah, what's that mean, what's that meanme where the man's like walking down the street holding his girlfriend's hand but he's like looking over his shoulder like sort of you know, saying ooh at the the girl walking by like what does he think of that mean he's like oh that's funny because she's wearing a different outfit like like does he just completely.
  • [51:30] Ally: Um.
  • [51:33] Mike: Um, right.
  • [51:39] Mike: Right? That's like it makes me wonder right.
  • [51:40] Ally: He made a version of that me Mark's the same woman in both positions. It's and it's his wife and he's like it's me.
  • [51:40] Keith: Not understand it.
  • [51:44] Keith: Right? Yeah, exactly all right? Well all right next this person said I had sex with another man and don't know how to tell my boyfriend just to clarify me and my boyfriend are in an open relationship. Just decided after years of being together to try to open our relationship neither of us wanted went into this with a list of people we wanted to fuck it was just as if the opportunity it was just if the opportunity happened but the terms were that we tell each other before safe for safety reasons or like the next day but after a few days we decided. All this the opportunity happened for me I wasn't expecting it so soon. But the guy was really cute and we had been friends for a while sorry he knew he wouldn't hurt me but I don't know how to tell my boyfriend because I know he's a little insecure about his quote unquote lack of success as he puts it with the relate with the situation.
  • [52:32] Ally: Ah.
  • [52:41] Keith: Says I would be more successful than he would I don't want to I don't want to go over to him like hey babe you were right? I'm hell is successful or some other asshole shit like that I also want to say I've asked him multiple times if he really does want to be in an open relationship. He says he wants to try it. We kind of joke about it a lot but now I feel guilty for having sex with someone else and not telling him yet. Sorry about the tangent and probably going all over the place with this but idk I guess I need to vent slash get advice. So this person sounds like she's about 19 ah, the boyfriend I'm sure would like to have sex with other 19 year olds but
  • [53:07] Ally: Me.
  • [53:16] Keith: Is relatively unable and so he's dealing with the normal thing which is like well I want to screw other people I don't want you to but in order for me to I Have to say you can and then she actually did and so now they're so now what? Ah yes I'm I'm shocked that.
  • [53:24] Mike: Well, it's going to be much easier for her obviously.
  • [53:31] Keith: An attractive woman is able to find sex easily. That's.
  • [53:32] Mike: I mean did she did she put her phone number on there because I could I'm available I might it's a fair point. Yeah.
  • [53:38] Ally: You're going to send her a dildo if you did. Ah.
  • [53:42] Keith: What's the Molds made you know it's easy to send more out. Yeah, just high fixed cost but low variable cost.
  • [53:44] Ally: Right.
  • [53:50] Ally: Um, yeah I think I mean Keith you can talk about this from being in an open relationship. But I think this is something you should probably agree upon ahead of time is like when do you tell the other person and maybe he says don't ever tell me, but probably they want to be told.
  • [53:53] Mike: Yeah.
  • [54:07] Keith: Yes, well okay, so Alyssa and I are are technically in an open relationship. Although neither of us has slept with anybody else in the approximate year that we have been seeing each other so it's like ah what is it. It's like ah.
  • [54:08] Ally: You know before something happens.
  • [54:25] Keith: I Don't know what the analogy here is it's like something is allowed but hasn't happened. Ah.
  • [54:28] Ally: Yeah, yeah.
  • [54:28] Mike: Well, you should switch it to the kind where you get to do whatever you want it. She doesn't.
  • [54:34] Keith: I mean I feel like either side saying that at this point like normally that would be an outrageous thing to say like oh I want to be able to sleep with anyone but I don't want you to that would normally be an outrageous thing but neither of us actually has slept with anyone else. So It's not like you'd be like withdrawing some sort of thing that they've been like you know. Leveraging massively.
  • [54:54] Mike: Yeah, but the the difference there is a difference in the potentially and the reason why that right for her. It could be Well, we've discussed this but I mean for her. It's basically not lack of desire for you. It's that it's extremely difficult if your requirement is to be honest with the other potential partner to find somebody willing to do that. Right? So So that's it. So Actually the the sorry one more modification you should make you should make it so Fine. It could be that both of you can do it but then also you should no longer be required to tell the other woman.
  • [55:13] Keith: That's right.
  • [55:24] Keith: Yeah I'll I'll run that by her I'm sure that will go well. Ah, um, yeah I mean ah I did look as it's piity. She's not here. Maybe we'll have her on next episode we can free litigate this. But yeah I mean look open relationships.
  • [55:29] Mike: Just trying to make it fair.
  • [55:30] Ally: Ah.
  • [55:44] Keith: Are a little bit silly because the woman has access to infinite sex but not infinite intimacy and the man has very limited access to sex. But if he does find someone they are going to op onto to intimacy and. So like that. Yeah, those 2 things think it difficult to have like a responsible open relationship.
  • [56:07] Mike: And men don't want intimacy. We don't want intimacy at all. We want just have sex and then leave right.
  • [56:13] Keith: Well in the case of a open relationship sex having your partner probably your full time partner probably actually wants you not to feel intimacy for that person and of course that third person wants you to feel intimacy for them. Especially yeah, one point ever. That's gone.
  • [56:23] Mike: Good.
  • [56:32] Mike: Yeah, what's that all about why do women want intimacy alley.
  • [56:32] Keith: Get it.
  • [56:38] Ally: Ah, it's nice to have someone to talk to like? yeah but your partner's around all the time and you get to have sex and talk to them and you know.
  • [56:43] Mike: But can't you just talk to other women. Oh Why you guys gotta to have it all but man.
  • [56:57] Ally: Go out to eat and go to museums and concerts and it's kind of a one stop shop like entire package of interaction.
  • [57:03] Mike: See you slyly slipped in you. You said you get to get to and then you put in you put under that Umbrella have sex and have intimacy but you you missed that you could be viewed as you get to have sex with them and have to talk to them see. It could be that right? And so.
  • [57:17] Ally: Yeah I try to only have sex with people who I really want to talk and do all the other stuff with also. So.
  • [57:25] Mike: Huh You should try the other like I like the idea of you have sex with one set of people and then the set of people you talk to and interact with is a totally different set of people exactly yes.
  • [57:32] Ally: Who I find completely sexually repulsive but otherwise very fun to be around see I Guess yeah, there's a lot more of an overlap between those categories for me.
  • [57:42] Mike: Ah, not for me.
  • [57:43] Keith: What percentage of couples that have been together for ten plus years do you think prefer their partner as they're like number 1 person to talk to.
  • [57:55] Mike: 50
  • [57:57] Keith: Okay I think it's lower.
  • [58:01] Mike: What do you think it is.
  • [58:01] Ally: I think it might be slightly higher but I would say yeah like sixty five seventy okay yeah
  • [58:07] Keith: I mean there's some selection bias here right? because when I say they're still together. We're eliminating all the people who get divorced but I think a lot of people. Yeah I mean like 50% of relationships is probably way more than 50 now right? like it was famously fifty like twenty years ago
  • [58:07] Mike: I think he's gonna come in at 25
  • [58:24] Keith: And in divorce Now it must be 80 So I don't know what it is but let's call it 60 right? So we're we're getting rid of all those folks. So Now we have like the 40% that that are are still forcing the square peg into the round hole. And yeah I just suspect that most of them have. Built up resentment for each other or feelings that yeah I bet it's I bet it's lesson I bet I bet less than half of those folks would I mean it depends on the topic right? like it's something that they've been talking about for years and they've had lengthy discussions about for long periods of time like obviously you want to. Build upon that foundation and continue those conversations. But if it's yeah, there are these some topics that I think people would crave some sort of external opinion on I don't know.
  • [59:09] Mike: All right Allie why do you think it's 75
  • [59:12] Ally: So I'm imagining this both as who do you talk to the most often and I think the longer you're in a relationship the more likely it is that it's going to be your partners by default and then also I'm I'm including topics of conversation that are maybe contentious.
  • [59:19] Keith: Yes, of course agree.
  • [59:28] Ally: Or could lead to argument that sometimes you return to over and over again and I think that there's something somewhat satisfying about those kinds of conversations Anyway, that maybe in an unhealthy way like lead you to want to have them over and over like with your partner.
  • [59:43] Mike: Allie don't you think it's kind of weird that you have this person that you have these conversations with more conversations than this other person then every so often they put their dick in you.
  • [59:52] Ally: No in a way I think it's weird that more of my friends don't put their ticket when I enjoy spending time with someone the more I enjoy the more things that I enjoy doing with them.
  • [59:58] Mike: Stay more about that.
  • [01:00:09] Ally: You know the more I like them as a whole. So I think the closer that I get to someone just like the more stuff that I want to do with them and I think at some point that would include some sort of intimacy some like you know, sexual intimacy.
  • [01:00:19] Mike: So your your preferred. Yeah your preferred lifestyle ah rather like the way the way that you prefer culture worked is something like you know every 5 conversations you have with a man. He gets to put his dick in you.
  • [01:00:23] Keith: That's actually an interesting take I like that take.
  • [01:00:37] Ally: Sure I guess what I'm thinking is like I don't have any friends who I would be disgusted to hug and I think that hugging someone kind of implies increased intimacy and makes me feel closer to them and so I think it's kind of reinforcing in that way. Um.
  • [01:00:37] Mike: Something like some ratio.
  • [01:00:56] Ally: And I guess I you know ideally there's 1 person who I just enjoy doing everything with and kind of have very little or no sort of boundaries with um and I think that person would be kind of like my best friend.
  • [01:01:07] Mike: Okay, but okay, so you're saying that you see those things all going together I mean but it's still kind of strange because it's like not ah the commerce I mean well whatever I mean it's not.. It's not a deeply intellectual activity when you're actually having sex with someone right. So It's a little different than a conversation or whatever. But you're saying everything go together.
  • [01:01:28] Ally: Right? But I Also yeah I mean there are friends that I have who I don't have sex with who I enjoy having intellectual conversations with and I also enjoy like playing tennis with or you know going to the beach with and those are also not very intellectual activities like there can be other sort of physical or less intellectual stuff that we do together that I also find enjoying and I think that just. Heightens or deepens or whatever the friendship if if I enjoy doing a whole variety of things with this person.
  • [01:01:51] Mike: But was your mention of the hug a way to sort of back away from having sex with your friends or were you or are you still defending or maybe I misunderstood this construed your position that like an an ideal alley world sex would go along with friendship and so you might have 6 really good friends. And depending on the level of friendship you have sex with some all of them but different amounts or is that like not acceptable to you or not compelling.
  • [01:02:17] Ally: I guess I haven't thought this through I brought off the hug is like. That's the the very minimal you know on a scale of 0 to 10 where ten is having sex with someone you know one or something is hugging them and then maybe you progress to like oh this is a friend I don't mind like kissing them on the cheek or I'm okay you know being.
  • [01:02:35] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [01:02:35] Ally: Partially naked around them or something. Um, so I guess you know I guess ideally to me. There's only 1 person that fits in the 10 category. But maybe there would be many people who fit in the like 5 to 6 category or something.
  • [01:02:45] Mike: So what what do what what is what does what does someone get when they're in 5 or 6 what happens? yeah.
  • [01:02:50] Keith: Get what are the reward level in Silver status.
  • [01:02:51] Ally: Um, what happens.
  • [01:02:58] Ally: I don't know um I'd have to think about it.
  • [01:03:02] Mike: Blow a blow. Maybe.
  • [01:03:06] Keith: So.
  • [01:03:06] Ally: Ah, now I think that's still closer closer to 10
  • [01:03:09] Mike: Lord So maybe like a it's not gonna be interesting. Okay I got it. You know.
  • [01:03:13] Ally: Um, ah, um.
  • [01:03:17] Keith: Ah, all right guys I Think that's a good place to stop. Do you guys have any closing thoughts.
  • [01:03:24] Mike: I Don't allie.
  • [01:03:26] Ally: No I I look forward to that package that I'm going to receive from you but that's I think that's below 5 Yeah I think gifts you know, even gifts of the sexual nature I probably.
  • [01:03:29] Keith: Of god.
  • [01:03:30] Mike: Is that close to a 10 I mean where's that.
  • [01:03:39] Keith: Um, no.
  • [01:03:40] Mike: What But we would go a higher if it was if if if you received a toy and it were in your vagina that would be higher right.
  • [01:03:48] Ally: What I do with the gift is the air. You know it's not factor into the calculation.
  • [01:03:50] Mike: Oh now.
  • [01:03:56] Keith: Mike I think you should do this for science in any case. Okay I'm gonna I'm gonna work on this offline I'll try to persuade him all right? So that's a wrap but episode 62 of your mileage may vary. Thanks Alie for having the poor judgment to tolerate Mike and i.
  • [01:03:57] Mike: It's frightening. Okay, no no I'm too scared.
  • [01:04:15] Keith: Thanks to Mike for saying the things that cause us to receive 90% of our complaint emails. We can be contacted at ymmvpod on Twitter or by email at Ymmv Pod at http://gmail.com we still pay $10 for feedback and always enjoy hearing from you even if it's just to point out how wrong we are. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week