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Episode 65: Boys Who Like Small Pink Ones, Body Count, Who Initiates, Need For Variety

Team YMMV | 5-5-2022 | 1:03:14

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A woman isn't tired of sex in general. She's just tired of having sex with her boyfriend. What's the right recommendation? Should they break up, or is this something that's fixable?

We watch a completely female-centric porn, meaning it's something that a woman would purportedly enjoy watching. The piercing blue eyes, mustache and beard were too much for me, honestly.

And, what's the ideal bodycount for a partner? How long do you want between the last time the partner had sex with someone else and the first time you two have sex together? Does it make a difference for men versus women in this regard?

To follow along with the videos discussed at the beginning of the episode (we started at 11:35 into the video):

https://ymmv.me/65/licking

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/65/pretty-vag

https://ymmv.me/65/blanket

https://ymmv.me/65/clean-shaven

https://ymmv.me/65/dont-enjoy-boyfriend

https://ymmv.me/65/initiating

https://ymmv.me/65/masturbation-rules

https://ymmv.me/65/body-count

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith/Mike: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with a spicy blend of frankness and humor and Keith my co-host is Mike hello Mike Hello Keith I was absent for our last show. So before we get into the various sex related topics I've planned for today I'd first like to discuss with Mike everything I think he did wrong. And his solo episode last week I'll try to keep it brief but gosh I have a laundry list here. So it's going to be tough but first please tell your friends about the show rate and review us while you're at it and if you'd like to send us feedback. We pay $10 for all feedback. We receive no matter how brief at at Ymmvpod on Twitter. And at Ym and the pod at Http://gmail.com we'd really appreciate the sport. Also if you'd like to ask us a question about yourself either for the show or privately those 2 places or the would reach us just let us know if you want your question to be tackled on air should I mention that we're in the same room again. Sure okay. We're in the same room. Yeah, he's no longer in the caribbean islands we're in yeah, we're in the same room here in a nondescript office building just 2 men at a conference table planning to watch the form because it's little surreal in this space. But here we are. Okay, so first I solicited feedback from others Alyssa Allie my brother in law and they all said that they really liked your solo episode. They might have been anything nice I mean I don't think. I mean I told Alyssa specifically not to be nice because she's always she was really really nice. She's so positive about everything. She was definitely like fine to she she said some things like. For example, she said that she could tell a lot of what was prepared in advance which is not true. Definitely not true. I mean yeah, you have to obviously be select the topics. We. We spend some time doing that but we like the responses to be a little bit off the cuff print and so definitely not yeah I mean obviously the listener feedback like I thought a little bit about but anyway yeah um but I mean Allie and my brother in law. I mean I thought it was intolerable I thought it was terrible. So I'm just trying to figure out like what the difference is like normally I like listening to you soliloquwise set that you say that soliloquized sure but I have theoryery about what I think it is okay, yeah yeah, hold your hold your comment for a second. Yeah. But I just found it like it was too disjointed. Yes, you never said you never got to anything interesting about any of your topics and you covered about 92 topics I agree I agree with feedback. Okay and the humor like didn't land because it felt like almost rushed at times or I mean it's hard with just 1 person anyway.
  • [02:48] Keith/Mike: But yeah I remember that weird pace I agree with that it was yeah it was an definitely an adventure go on. Yeah I mean that's the crux of my complaint i. so so ah yeah the ah it's an interesting experience trying to talk for an hour straight without anybody to bounce things off of I was definitely worried that I would just like run out of topics at like 20 minutes that's wrong and also you had plenty to talk about? Yeah and also there's just this tendency to have a monologue with what's in your head and ah to skip past things. Where the person listening well they're not in your head hearing the monologue your yeah in your head so it just sounded like talking it sounded like you were extemporaneously just saying a little bit. Yes, no, there was a lot mean and the thing is to me some of the things I said were funnier. They would be to another person because they don't know what the fuck is in my head right? So that actually sort of bum me out I was like oh there' this should be funnier and it's got you have to sort of slow down. Make sure you said things that is yeah, it's it's kind of a stressful situation because you don't have the other person better to sort of yeah jump in yeah I want to try doing it myself because. I can do better. Yeah for sure. Yeah, so let me say the yeah, the other thing that people need to know about that is that Keith listens to podcasts at 1.7X yeah and when you already have a person who's talking too fast and not leaving pauses not making sure they say everything. And then you speed it up like I have to actually listen back at that rate because I'm sure that it is I think intolerable is probably right? Yeah I mean your intuition that that may have been part of the problem is possibly right? The reason why I normally I listen to our podcast to that speed and it's awesome. It's like It's it around this fan. Yeah I really like listening to myself moderate conversations with between us and because when I listen to it at that amplified speed. Yeah's like I'm rehaing the same thoughts at about the speed that I would have the thoughts like normally I speak slightly slower than I can think things. But when I speed it up. It said like that exact rate and sometimes I'll be like oh hu? Yeah, that was a really interesting thing I said yeah and write when I'm getting annoyed with something you're saying I'll interrupt you and so yes, it's basic I think maybe the people that listed in life is so much we just hear life passion for the subject come. Yeah, know joy of the of having fun hobbying subreddit people and listener feedback stuff like that. But I agree I actually agree with getting your feedback completely I listened back and I thought yeah this is rushed and a little disjointed. So anyway, people.
  • [05:31] Keith/Mike: Listeners have their own feedback and be trusted. Yeah I'd be curious and I think he should do solo so that he maybe he can do something much more coherent I think yeah I want to know if anyone else agrees with me for sure. Um, okay so I have one more sort of meta thing before we get into our porn viewing segment. Ah. Been trying to think of a better like intro or slogan for our show I want to say something like we try to bring an anti-woke perspective but that's I know that's a dog whistle for misogyny and noninclusivity and so forth that sounds good. But. And we are a bit traditional our interviews, especially you. But I think we ghost wrote the the upcoming Roe versus wade decision right? right? We're returning. Yeah man yes I I don't know I think I I don't think I would go that far. But yeah' there's um, there's a more traditional aspects but specifically when you prepare. But part of what makes a lot of the sex sex relationship podcast boring out there is that they their effort to be as progressive as possible actually makes it really predictive what they're going to say because it's just they don't write. They're not willing to challenge. Anybody you say oh somebody he says oh I like to do this, they're doing great. Yeah, so things aren't good to do. Yeah I think people are afraid to say certain things and you're allowed to think things that aren't you know the normal culture. It's important to think things through and to consider them. You know that may be the letter of. The woke agenda at all times may not be absolutely perfect. What's that? Yeah, even but also like I mean the I don't know wishtra which direction does the guy who wants to never wear a condom with an escort go is that wove or antiwoke I don't know yeah, don't know I should be told like hey. Um, some risks here you know I know he's doing what he wants to do and apparently if he's telling the truth. There are these women that allow that but man this is not good foring right? Yeah, okay so how do I what's something succinct. Yeah I don't know we have to think about it.
  • [07:37] Keith/Mike: America's number 1 sex relationship podcast. Yeah, right now later even the wordy even the word America is like sort of a shrider for a lot of people these days, especially with the ah yeah, the supreme court rumor um, all right? Let's get into it. Do you have a porn for us I do this one's gonna be a little tough. We are gonna watch it sorry tough. This is not what a straight male wants to watch while masturbating which is not to say that it's that unusual but it's just not the perspective we're used to I as always will post the link. The video in question in the show notes I encourage people to follow along with it I'm going to have the sound up so people can hear it. But Keith is going to watch it on his laptop at the same time and we will do a little bit of commentary and then talk about afterward. We're starting 11 minutes and 30 seconds into the video in question and Keith will count it down. Got it up and ready. You could probably even go up a couple notches on the volume. Yeah oh for sure I yeah about other people in our office true light moaning. Yeah's that's ah, very concerned of you. Um, yeah, so this is called female po ov pussy eating orgasm yeah I'm not sure if you. Mean it's hard to tell when the orgasm is because there's not much to indicate that on enough on female body right? Then when the quote unquote orgasm is right that to yes, all right? I'm ready I'm gonna start in 3 to 1 starting. Ah, okay, so it's a man between the legs of a woman that's kind of loud. He's enjoying his I guess a meals got his eyes closed right now his nose It's interesting to see what his nose does. He's got it kind of buried in there. Oh the camera kind of moved in that angle's always sort of awkward. Your nose. It is. She's kind of moving around skin clearly enjoying it. Yeah, she's trying to create some tension there I think trying to like look at the camera little time and give it a lot of eye contact I'm not sure if he'd actually be an eye contact with a woman in the situation without it. Yeah, the camera's got to be blocking his view of her face now. He's kind of putting his head to one side to get it different. He's really suckling by the way he has a mustache and beard which is not my favorite and he's said the situation't either all right? That's about a minute why don't. Yeah, yeah, planning. Yeah so you know do you think this is something that you could masturbate to no no, it's I generally don't find watching a man go down on a woman arousing I like going down on a woman I don't find that arousing. But.
  • [10:21] Keith/Mike: Ah, another man do it is is not aoususing and this is particularly ah I guess almost repulsive is the camera angle or the man the way he looks well. This man is sort of it's he's a weird combination of Cherubic and something he has like. Braided hair. Did you notice that I did notice that he has kind of like tightly braided hair. It's trying to go for like a viking look well something I think he has a receding hairline mostly oh okay, well anyway I don't find this man attractive but that's not the problem. It's that it's um. Yeah, it's from her perspective and so we're not getting any of the view of her body. It's mostly his man's face at his nose like right grinding in you know, above her vagina. Yeah I agree. It's challenging to enjoy this is that it's close. Close to watching ga horn. The positives are I think her sounds are positive. There's no visible penis. Yeah there's there's yes, there's no murder sense. That's things that right? true, right? But youbi yeah compared to a. Compared to game one does not have a physicalal penis. But yeah, like it's I think I too would have difficulty difficulty masturbating this and it's surprisingly unattractive and it makes me think to myself like how how so how would of how would a woman enjoy this and the other thing is I'd say I think to myself. Okay. Woman enjoys it because it's a man she knows I think this guy is doing his best to look loving and earnest and that's not a thing I care about in my porn but I can imagine that being a thing that women care about in their porn. You find if you're looking at a woman giving you oral which I know you don't generally like let's just take a think about the picture does it make it better or worse if it's a woman that you know well would you rather have that image of a woman. You don't know well on your cock or I think. Think knowing for while she's yeah yeah, this is a little bit hard to I have to make like 3 leaps here first I don't like receiving oral sex that much second now I'm like masturbating to some sort of video of it and like third I need to decide whether. And wanted it to be a picture of someone I like or or yeah the visage of someone I like or yeah that I know well or not yeah I just think that we mean maybe that's it's part of this sort of like negativity about oral sex is like yeah with some of you know well ah because yess like this this somewhat negative thing you're doing to them or with them.
  • [13:04] Keith/Mike: I don't know. But yeah, the reason that came up in my mind is because I think that a woman differentially is more likely to enjoy. It's going to matter to a woman in this kind of a video if she knows the man like having she's going to like it better I think I don't I suspect that nobody this is part part of my. I suspect almost nobody wants to watch this video because for a woman. It's a man she doesn't know for a man. It's a man so it's always a negative although I have to yeah on certain subdits that I follow women seem to share such videos I don't I don't know if this guy's I mean he is I don't know. Okay, first so I don't know how I I was confused but I know. It's it's low views but it's 97% up votes and it was only uploaded two weeks ago yeah I don't know if this man yeah, the way he's it is he performing to look like this like are they trying to get click paid or is this just some amateur thing that somebody uploaded I don't know because he looks. Ern right? Like I mean he? Yeah yeah is really doing his best to look like he's a caring and giving and generous. Go downer. Its part of the drag of having sex is a woman has to be issues have sex with men men are just so unattractive. Yeah I mean wildly, it's like. Women get those chemicals anyway, all right enough I'm closing this guy sure all right I have a pretty long list of stuff here. The first 2 are sort of about female body. Issues this person First person says boyfriend doesn't like my badge. How do I get over the fact, my boyfriend doesn't like the way I look down there. He likes small pink ones. He told me and mine is dark and big. Truthfully I cry about it so often. It's my biggest insecurity I mean really and now. Have to hide it from him too I've considered labialasty and he says I don't need it and it's not something I would like to go through out of fear of failure. He doesn't call me gross or anything but I know he doesn't enjoy it brownie face leaving him isn't an answer for me I hope is that he can learn to love it. Um. We've tackled this a few times. Ah I think most people although not all probably prefer the classic any Libya ah arrangement I think there's some possibility that more. Ah, more amount of skin there actually gives you more pleasure as a guy when you're doing pid more outer more yeah pronounce outer ladyia. Yeah there's just more to like rub on your penis I know I mean that would be a really chout me maybe a porn star would know a male porn star would know.
  • [15:55] Keith/Mike: That's relevant and not sure I bet the difference is very slight and so unless you could like go from 1 vagina to the next you know sometimes in born like the 2 women are like on top of each other and the dog I like that too. That's a fun fantasy. Yeah. You can just switch or they're will they where they be stomach to stomach right? and so that that can work too. Yeah, get if you angle up you get the one woman to angle down you get the other 1 right? but you would have to have it set up like that I think I think the different distance. The difference is so slight that if you did one 1 day and 1 another day you wouldn't be able to remember. Difference. Ah, but yeah, be like well I'll be look. There is the woman who makes the videos pointing out that if you get allevi of plastic just make sure they don't mess with the nerves in your cliff your nerves down there. Your Tiktok person who yes whose quest in life was to warn people against the. Yeah, dangerous. Some believe if you plastic like the notion that hers is big and was sit brown. Ah your Brown was in there. Mine is dark and big dark and big mom big I assume just means more material more like a roseby sandwich. Some people. If youve seen this thing where you can get a device that like sucks on your you put like a suction cup over your your vagina and then you pump it and then it puffs it up. It doesn't really doesn't increase the amount of material I don't think it does anything to the labia I think it just puffs up everything. Yeah I don't understand I've never encountered that. Life maybe like ah titans it because it's just like more there. So do you think this woman is correct to feel insecure about this or justified I don't know what like I don't really know what like how like okay hold on let me let me let me frame this. A man with a four inch penis would be correct to feel insecure so is she correct to feel insecure about her non. Why would the man with the four inch penis be correct because most partners will be disappointed. Yeah. And this guy has communicated to her. He likes small pink ones. He told me I think that? yeah well this is much more of an aesthetic choice like first of all skeptical that length matters now for growth matters more although they probably go together fine time find but setting that aside, this is much more of an aesthetic judgment. And I mean it's ah it's a pretty like well I mean whatever like women's bodies are judged based on attractiveness so in that along that axis. Yeah I guess it is reasonable. Yeah now like that's not that's not people would be upset that we're saying that it's not the politically correct thing to say but.
  • [18:46] Keith/Mike: Yeah, like if if there's if being fat is or ugly is something to feel a little bit sad about I think this is she's sort of justified in feeling a little bit bunmed here like I think most partners will be mildly disappointed now does it really matter will mature men get over it. Yes, no and yes, but you know. Doesn't change that like every once in a while someone may communicate to her that you know her ladyia aren't their fake. Their favorite I don't know I mean I think that on the flip side of that like there's a substain like they're part of the interesting thing for men. Basically when you see a woman naked. It's very attractive is the fact I mean like look there's what is what is the the high point of attractiveness for a woman is probably wearing bikini. Yeah, and so you're going down at that point because like you know his breasts are gonna be like a little bit nibbles are kind of big and yeah, a bikini and sunglasses I think basically okay. And lets your imagination just sort of imagine the perfect things behind those things that are being obscured. Yeah, and it's like it's like look like okay, it's why yoga pants are so awesome. It just lets your mind fill in the blank with awesomeness. So I mean the flip side of that is I think that there could be a situation where a man actually finds it more attractive that basically the he gets just you. Part that's kind of fucked. That's the right one way to say he gets to see the part that's like a little bit less attractive because it's like he's penetrating that and that can be compelling to a guy. Um, but yeah I can understand why there's like a standard of attractiveness applied with this by men just like it is to other parts of women's bodies. Um. The thing I don't understand is how does this conversation even come about in a relationship. Yeah I mean one of the comments here. Dude even if I hated the way my wife's anything looks you couldn't get that info out of me if you tore my nails out that's to your grave kind of info and the fact that he just told you outroad blows outright blows hard yeah, like just like weird. What benefit does this guy get by communicating to her I'm sure he's young is's strategically very strange for her mean she can't really change. You yeah, he probably just like kidding around or something. Yeah, she may have asked him to like you know, but I mean even in that context. Yeah, it's like if somebody says do I look that in that dress you say no right? There's no. Actually I was just thinking how great you look at um Sam Harris says that you should never lie and that there's very little justification for any white lives because in the long run people know that they can trust your opinion on things. So anyway. Ah. This next person says he covered me up with his blanket after sex sweet gesture or did he not like seeing me from that angle guy I've been hooking up with for a couple months and catching feelings who covered me with a blanket after sex I'm an overthinker and what to know what that means without asking him. We did it. He kissed me and cleaned up my stomach and then went to get a drink.
  • [21:37] Keith/Mike: But I looked cute laying naked on my belly rocking back and forth a little with my butt and legs in the air. He came back in and grabbed a blanket and laid it over me sat on the edge of the bed and drank his water so he kisses me and looks me in the eye during sacks. Let let me let me stay lets me stay. Holds me all night all good signs I say was he covering me because he doesn't like looking at me or because he wanted to take care of me and be warm and comy I don't I don't know I don't care I want to point out a couple things here. Ah the first is her saying I think I looked cute laying naked on my belly rocking back and forth a little with my butt and legs in the air. That means that yeah so they finished having sex he goes to you know, get water or whatever and she's thinking how can I position myself so that I look attractive when he comes back. It says I don't love it because so she had he had to clean up her stomach so he nutted on her stomach. And then she immediately turns over is like rubbing the nut into the sheet. Maybe you catch the sheet. She said he came back in and grabbed a but wait. What did she say she did there was a towel out of he's like we did it. He kissed me and cleaned up my stomach and then went to get a drink so maybe had a tel next and I cleaned up her stomach and then she flipped over. I know but still is rightor. Yeah, just you noting that you're annoyed that she's selling his sheets I so I just know it. Yeah I didn't I mean I didn't like the part of the story where he cleaned up her stomach I was like she should do that. No, you should. But I think that men generally look your mouth can't get right? But I think men generally want to deposit their c and any mucu membra there's several I think women want to have they would prefer it not to be on their stomach too. Yeah. Yeah I think it's a drag for everyone involved. So there's that so I'm already I not triggered but like irritated by by the description of this event here. Okay, but but look I mean I actually read this this question and the other answers the obvious answers here is like you're overthinking it. He just thought you were cold or whatever which is what it is probably. Okay, no sorry forget I forget you didn't care about that though you care about? Yeah I think it's possible that this guy was like yeah like I've had I've had central encounters where I get back to the bedroom and I mean yeah, you're in like this sort of like plus post nut clarity. You have your libidos low I'm just like. Look at this really? yeah, not with my current partner course. Ah they could never no Lissa looks good in all lights at all times good I can say that actually with a straight face listeners can't see that but ah I've had partners where that is not the case.
  • [24:22] Keith/Mike: And ah I don't think I would go so far as so I duck them. They do a blanket and turn the other way like I would be more subtle about it. But maybe they could detect I don't know you like ah you get like handle a bus schedule right? Oh you know. But time its the last train leave. Yeah, let me I'll walk you to the bus station right? I did like how she said he lets me stay all right? Let's move on here. This person says boyfriend will only go down on me if I'm clean shaven is that a deal breaker. Dated this guy for two months and we had some good sex but he never went down on me kind of forced the issue and he said we can only do it if I'm clean shaven he even told me he can pay for regular waxing or treatment first I was kind of mildly offended but I took up his offer got waxed and he gave the best worldal I've ever had like seriously must have come a few times just going down on me now I feel like. That kind of attention I can shave every other day or so before the stubble kicks in the main reason why hate shaving and prefer trimming it. The part of me thinks that this should be a deal breaker like I got to be clean shaven all the time now. What would you do in my place. Boyfriend is pretty clear where his line is. Ah, well I mean I think going down on someone who isn't clean is not a reasonable expectation either? Yeah, but she's offering to both sorry you just transmuted it from clean for clean shave into clean. Well. I'm starting I want to argue by extremes first sorry so we'll get to the to the pubic hair thing. But yeah, like if somebody hasn't showered in four days like obviously it's not outrageous for them to not want to go down on you. Okay, so now let's just start eas it back like okay well what about if they showered in the morning but now it's. You know seven pm like it's not a crazy request to say like hey would you mind chat ring first some people like that sort of funk that accumulates you read about that both women and men sort of like it when their partners are funky I I do not personally. Ah, can tolerate a certain amount and you know I have my line but this guy's line appears to be that he wants her to be clean, shaven and I think that's further than most people, but well the thing that yeah the thing that I didn't know was that she she says that's for and I don't think for a guy's perspective like I don't think there's. Yeah, there is a functional difference for a guy in performing this activity between like it makes a difference in the sense that like if a woman has done no rooming at all. It is actually not great, right? Yeah like it makes a significant difference. However, between like.
  • [27:08] Keith/Mike: Trimmed down to whatever length say with some small andro millimeters and totally cliche I don't think that actually is a mechanical difference for the guy. It's then just like visual I agree. Yeah I don't know if this guy actually requires that she be fully clean shape right? Um I dated a girl once this was. Fifteen years ago or something and before any sexual encounter she would insist on taking a shower and shaving like she didn't want to have sex unless she had like just freshly shaven herself I don't know what was going on with that. So how did that work like she knew. If you initiated sex at all. She would run to the shower I feel like we've discussed this before. Yeah, maybe maybe she had a boyfriend like this guy and you know it sort of got put a bug in her head where you know she doesn't feel clean unless the thing I would have wonder I don't think we discussed this before is there's like if there's like a meme that I've seen where men. Get aroused when there's when their partner significant other whatever starts putting her hair into a pony town. Yeah there's like some sort of trigger. Yeah because they're basically like oh that means she's gonna start blowing me and I think me think like which is sort of true I think I did reasonable. We did read something about. Yeah, there was some some guy was describing. There's like some like innocuous seeming thing that his girlfriend would do but like it immediately made him rock hard. She had like pavlavianly trained him to get aroused when she did some you know nonsexual thing. Yeah, so I'm imagining like if if if aper below nothing. This girl started taking a shower. Oh yeah I knew what was up. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, really so she wouldn't say okay, what I want to know is whether it was totally presumptuous in other words without any conversation about that you were gonna have sex she would just go start eating a shower. You're like oh because that could be become problematic later. You're like oh. Fuck I already I just be off an hour not got to pop this bench I don't remember I don't remember it really was a long time ago was when I first moved to San Francisco all right? Yeah sorry um, okay, this person says I want sex but I hate doing it with my boyfriend. I 20 year old female have been in a loving relationship with my 20 year old male boyfriend for over ah for a little over 3 years and we just started living together in his apartment. Yeah, he's a good choice. He's a great guy I know treats me super well and I couldn't ask for a better boyfriend. However I've slowly started to want sex less and less with him over the past year so the point where I feel gross and sad when we start being intimate. And don't want to make out anymore and I don't want to do anything sexual with him. We basically only cuddle now but I know he wants to do more and really enjoy sex to me. He's good in bed cares about my pleasure and communicates with me throughout I've never had a bad experience with him in that regard. We set sex a lot multiple times a week whenever possible.
  • [29:56] Keith/Mike: Want to want it so bad and have plenty of time to do it. But I just don't want to have sex with him anymore. It feels wrong I never get excited and I feel bad for always turning him down I still want sex though I know other people who I find very attractive and I have sex dreams about them very often I feel bad but I think I just really miss it I don't know what's stopping me from still feeling that attraction to my boyfriend. Get horny still I love saxon and him but I can't put the 2 together. It's this a bad sign. How do I bring this up or what can I do to change his skilling. Um well I think this is normal. Do you think it's normal for women. Oh well, you're just you're just saved from your own perspective like this what happens to me. yeah yeah yeah I think this is normal I actually read something within the last two weeks about ah that in situation you know, typically they would talk about this in like a long long term relationship and they talk about like a dead bedroom. Yeah, it's more than more than half the time much more than half the time. It's the woman. Libido like us way down and is it her libido or is it her libido for for that person. Okay, this is what this this article is talking about is that in almost 100% of these cases if the woman if they break up and then the woman starts dating another guy. Her libido is fine. So it's for him. It's her libidos for him and it's something about. I mean look then then you have to like psychoanalyze it. But it's something around like she's like mentally associated him with a bunch of boring stuff like there's no like the ah the set of things that turns a woman on isn't available with him. Yeah, whether it's like. Mean there could be some fetish or like dominant submissive thing that she's into or it could just be that like everyday life is not very like arousing for a woman. It's not it doesn't resemble a romance novel at all whereas the guy. He just requires like a naked body. Yeah, most guys I mean some guys get tired of particular woman's naked body after a while I think the real. Think the reason that men some men tire of a specific sexual partner makes sense like you would think that there would be some impetus to spread seed to different eggs to get genetic diversity I think the base desire that men have. Is to have 1 primary partner and then fuck other chicks I think that's actually what men want why um because there's like because they're psychological benefits that men get from. Men I mean men like from having a single primary partner. Yeah, yeah, they're they're basically like there's something you get a being partnered. It's not just the woman that get something out of it. But it's absolutely the case that almost all men some huge percentage of men if they had the ability to do that and on the side have sex with willing partners. They would do that.
  • [32:39] Keith/Mike: But how would that play out in a less civilized culture like what would happen if these side checks got pregnant. Yeah, it's an issue be funny that you asked that that I also read something about recently about basically arguing that was it was Roman least in the lastster world was Roman and Greek. Societies that enforced monogamy I don't remember why there's something like the the problem you have is that if there is a set of men that have a bunch of money that monopolize the women and there's a set of men who have no access to women I think they were saying something about it makes it then hard to like raise an army or something because you have all these disgruntled. Yeah, it doesn't work as well. But but you can see why it would it would happen I mean maybe they then you just wind up with a lot of men. They're effectively slaves of kind of these like terrible lives I see it's gonna be kind of so there's there's a there's a few alpha men who are very comfortable and then right and then. Yeah I mean so they might not not unlike the United States with its income disparities now that's right? but I wonder that's I often wonder why billionaires in the United States and I'm sure like the russian oligarch for people like that. Well at least some of thems like why don't these men just have a heroon Basically I mean like for example I saw. I was reading something the video or something about he was a stripper giving all the reasons why you know way men try to like get them have sex with them in the strip club whether it's in the champagne room where there's no sex as we know or we get them to come home with them and then I found to myself I was like in the shower after I thinking to myself. If you were a billionaire you could just offer. You could go to the strip club. Whatever you want and offer them with $100000 just buy the strip club but but it's even easier than that you've the doors. The woman's going to say yes I mean she's in the business. Yeah, and I don't really understand why that doesn't happen. Yeah. Actually don't I don't understand why men I think there's some there's some headwinds like I think the men are aren't so bold or are would be embarrassed or something like there's some cultural guardrails that are stopping them from doing Steve wouldn't you think 5 % a billionaire yeah, yeah you would it would just be flag run of me. They just do it. Oh. I guess you have like Charlie Sheen he's not a billionaire sure but tiger woods is yeah fair point although he was hiding it. Hes a church spot. But why aren't there some that is just like this is what I do that was right? Wood should just said this is what I Hugh Hefner did I guess a fair point. Yeah exactly I would expect there' to be a really large contingent of men like that and it's surprising the culture is able to. That they do obvious behavior. yeah yeah I don't know that's that's a good question. Yeah um I don't remember we werere talking about? Oh well, this is this person doesn't want to have sex with their boyfriend anymore like this is the other side is that the woman I mean look yeah, it's just it's just.
  • [35:28] Keith/Mike: Do you think once you're like flying into the mountain like this. It's possible to pull up like can he change his behavior in some way I know that the classic advice is like oh you need to set things up for your wife or in this case partner so that you know she's comfortable. So like do chores don't do things that like makes her build up resentment toward you right. I think that usually doesn't work I know but I'm just saying that's what the class I this is that they need to break up and they' like she'll eventually It's just yeah, he's missing whatever it is that she wants it's missing is most women I don't think actually are you sorry most women in this situation are Naty sexual. That's what that article I read that said that. Their next relationship. They're totally cool. Sure. But maybe you're for the woman by the way it's like you have yeah done better. You know it's a problem. You can't fix it. You break up and then like a month later you get back. You're flu his brains up right? with me? Yeah, but do you think that her attention or interest in this new person will eventually attenuate as well. Yeah I think I think in most cases problem. So what she's supposed to do like she she's twenty she was with this guy for 3 years so she just going have a series of 3 years or 2 you who knows maybe it's been going on for tutor. So a series of 1 year -long relationships. So I think that there are women I think that in much the same way that you claim to have this experience sorry clay is not the right Clay you say I believe you. Sit place to be there where you had a yeah lower sex drive with some people but then you've had relationships with that doctor right? right? It's the same thing. So I you could think about well what it is what is it? Oh maybe there's somebody there to like that has the skeleton key or not skeleton key that probably shared heralities's right that she then actually works for. Being said I think there are probably women where it doesn't work and the other thing is to your point about like doing chores all that kind of stuff I think that almost never works because it's the skeleton piece that it's it's the core thing here is it's either that the woman just has a low sex drive. Slash asexual something like that sure or but more commonly it's just there's something about the guy they this is why people date break up and then ultimately find somebody right? Yeah, all right? So here's the flip side to that my girlfriend never initiate sex time to see how long she does until she does now two weeks down have sex about 5 two weeks eek and I realized I 5 as the only 1 initiating so I asked why she 1 oesn't and a reply was because sometimes I need to be in the mood and I'm never in the mood unless you make me and me being an overthinker heard that as I know I don't what do they call that there's like some worse. Ah, you have responsive yeah reactive sex drivers in the bonds. Yeah, um. And me being an overthinker heard that as I don't want to have sex with you. But if you make me really horny I can't really say no llll stupid I know I know it's not true. So now I'm waiting to see how long it takes for her to make the first move. We've been together two years and I can only remember her making the first move maybe 5 times right.
  • [38:11] Keith/Mike: I didn't think I need to say but yes I've talked to her quite a few times about how it makes me feel unwanted unloved very unattractive I'm not trying to change her I'm simply trying to understand. Ah yeah, like react reactive desire. That's what it's called I see it in the first sex driver. Yeah I see it in the the first comment here. Um yeah I mean he'll wait. And it like waiting for goodot I like it's not It's not she's not coming like right? Ah, there was I did see a video recently that gave some suggestions one suggestion was to come out coming to the bedroom where I'm just underwear and no bra as a one another one was to text him that you're in bed naked as a. But again, but the problem here is an ex act these are ways for like initiate right? But here at the issue actually she doesn't want to issue right? She has like no she has a responsive sex drive so she like needs. She's not into it until the guy does something and the problem that the guy has every guy not every post. Guys except there's some guys on like the sex who has you know they're like oh we have sex 12 times a week and it's like okay, whatever like you but did there I mean look there people who just fucking all the time right? Ah, but ah yes, the guy then has to handle rejection. That's like a thing that the guy has to learn to handle rejection even in like a relationship. Like yes, some percentage of the time you will get rejected and the irritating part about that is that like okay so as a guy in this situation. Ah you want to have sex you get rejected now you kind of need to be off right? right? right? It's kind of like okay well so. If you think that through it's like okay well if you're going to bed. Yeah, how do you know you rejected now you have to get out of bed right right? right or a rather degreeable where you could just asturbate next to the person but usually they aren't gonna want that because they just reject sure and a lot of people aren't sex positive enough to have adult conversations about this. So. For a lot of people. It's awkward but ah look this guy has been yeah, you know to have a conversation not in the situation then right I mean you're right? the conversation where it is like hey ah you try to initiate the woman's like I'm tired now and then you're like I'm going to the bathroom to feed off then. Kind of aggressive. Yes, she'll she'll think you're doing it to punish her or something it actually like yeah so so you could have a conversation some other time you like hey bible ways. But she probably doesn't care. Actually if you say it and make it really upfront you' go be like well seriously you're yeah you' telling to that. Yeah I mean yeah, generally this guy is he's a little confused like. He's he thinks that it's unfair that she never initiates. But there's normal There's lots of things that are unfair in male femalemale relationships right? like men have bigger muscles right? like I mean too the other side of this is some significant percentage of the time she's having sex with them which doesn't really that probably I'm sure of it.
  • [40:59] Keith/Mike: Like that's very, you know that's like it relates to the orgasm gap between men and women which like oh it's because women are being mistreated. not not really it's these women are comfortable having sex sometimes when they're not totally into it right because they want to give the guy pleasure and they refined with that. So like there's an asymmetry right? there? yeah. Yeah, he needs to not look at this as some sort of like fairness as some sort of bean counting like you know, did you ever have a situation like this with that when you were in relationship where you had a low risk x drive like a okay I know you would about the situation where the woman tried to initiate and you did yeah a but that's not I know that? yeah, but a we're like. She was trying to like control of you in initiating or be more interestingly for me more like a woman basically is just like all right and then just pulled out like a big fiveri try it vibrating or klit and funny. Ah essential I had happen I have had that second experience. Yeah yeah, you' like all right? Yeah, okay. Yeah, and I feel like I mean did you just let it happen it sort of depends. Yeah I'll participate or decided have it I mean look it depends like the person if the person is being ridiculous like if we've had sex 5 times in a given week and they're like sort of annoyed and like pull out the viber actually even in that context like what do you What do I say. To say like no sorry you can't have an orgasm right now because it inconveniences me you said you had a relationship where they where you fired atvis sex good. It didn't work. Did that put I guess but but like in that no that person did not okay, a person was more yeah, it's interesting though, like the sort of flagrantly that's the wrong word, but just yeah, pulling out the. Vibrator so sometimes you would participate and sometimes you just go dead. Go sleep and person you yeah so no, you can't there is no. You know there's like yeah what is a consensual non-conscent. Yeah there's no like nonparticipating in like you kind of the room. I could I could go read but you know the newspaper in the other room I could I think that significant percentage of women if they funded by this situation would ask the dude to be off in it different I think there's there's like more sense I think the context and details here matter like it depends how often this is happening sure. Like if it's every night it'd be like all right come on. But if it's like once a week and you know the woman went out on a vulnerable limb and initiated and you know I turn her down and then she's like well hey do you mind if I get my vibrator out then of course like that's that's fine. But if it's yeah so. But details. What would you do? would you watch. Would you just go to sleep. Would you go to the other room and like have a drink What would you get or it does it depend it depends I think I would probably participate of that so you would participate some extent to some extent? Yeah, but I think that would be the normal.
  • [43:45] Keith/Mike: Sorry normal, you know if it's in one of these situations where like you know I'm not where my sex drive isn't kicking in sometimes it will just through the exercise of you know the mechanics of which just getting what's going on here getting down in there right? The one that is that part of what we reacted. Fraction arous right? Like she like some women just don't walk around sort of passably horny all the time they need. They need a few things to you know, get the the diesel engine kick started right? and then but then once it's going it's going right analogy worked up. What I spend it's difficult I think it's difficult for a man to understand because so 1 thing like I would say to women it's to men and women is like male and it's I understand why this is true society should do this male masturbation is very negatively viewed in all societies that I'm aware of and it's in it's. Very good reason if you don't view it negatively. There will just be men beating off in the library I mean they already are beating off it funds in situations where they should. They're Louis C K the frickin san francisco public library has like ah and was talking to somebody who works there and she was telling me yeah, she was telling me like a huge part of her job is. Chasing people because they have computers there right and homeless people are allowed to use them. There was just come in. It was a a man I was in college there was a guy who was beating off clan as they never caught him in the library he would ejaculate over his hair. What how people would fall asleep women fall asleep like. Goat library one study. Oh my where we go he beat off and get in their hair and there was this very that I love is this guy friend of mine actually who was a reporter for the college paper. He interviewed the police captain because they're investigating yeah and he said and they quote was something like ah you know these guys are really hard to catch. They just. Go ah, it is impossible to believe that that could possibly be at accident. Yeah, ah 1 more thing about like depraved masturbating you told me about this guy years ago and it's always stuck with me. There's some dude who I guess was going around to women's bathrooms and like. Masturbating on the last square of toilet paper all the stalls. Yeah, they would forget that you could find this semen on it anyway, the point is I've been in an office bathroom that was like a multiple stalled batho I just positive the guy next him to Vietnam. It's like a lot of like vibration like gro sound right? think? Yeah Gru it was was the rhythmic sounds basically. Okay. Anyway, so masturbating needs to be culturally frowned upon male ascerbate for sure because it' female is not as important because they don't do it as much and it's not sure critical to their life. Yeah, yeah, so anyway, so because of that like it's because of my point was that because of that like I mean have you ever.
  • [46:35] Keith/Mike: Been in bed with a woman and been like okay just pulled your co sort of masturbate I have not I have not okay whereas why both of us have been in situations where we were in bed a woman and she pulled out a vibrator. Actually it's interesting, right? And it's for me, it's because of the taboo like if there were no tab taboo around that I'm sure I would have done it because well I masturbate. Rightly often if it were culturally acceptable. Yeah I wouldn't do in front of like a child or so but I would yeah in front of my significant other. Yeah I've never thought about that. But yeah I do have some built in I don't know shame's the right word but hesitancy to masturbate in almost all situations. Maybe a way for you in elicit to get closer would be to show her your set up I mean she knows about it from the podcast of course but you can actually I don't want to see it of course I I can pretty much imagine it. But maybe she'd like to see you your lawyer. She's gonna hear this and she's gonna agree with you. And now you've created a problem. Yeah I guess I could I could cut this out all right, let's move on. It would be kind of hot for you? Yeah, maybe not it eats your private space I don't know I do like masturbating it would be a shame to have it from ruined. But I'm not sure if having her there would ruin it or not I don't I don't want to contemplate this all right this person asks very simply do women get post- not clarity like men just curious if like men women will get off and then be like what the fuck did I just do okay that's not what postnet clarity is go ahead. Yeah. talked about this um you and I have talked about this I don't remember if we talked about it with Eric on the show or with Eric privately. But ah, this notion of like feeling some shame after you masturbate and Eric yeah Eric and I both said. Yeah, of course and you were like I don't get that and we were both sort of surprised at that. So this person's communicating this like yeah what the fuck did I just do I'm always really pleased with myself that was a good one if it's okay, if who's it bad when I've had bad. Yeah, of course you get badness. No, that's not that's not what I get a doubt of I just feel sort of depraved. But I think this is again like. I think it's culture that has made me feel this way like I don't think I would naturally feel this way. It's just that I don't know I've I've been made to feel a little bit of shame or embarrassment or so that's not what post de clarity is anyway. No, it's not sorry moving on. Yeah post not clarity is ah yeah, you're not ah. Saddled with the thing that you almost always are saddled with which is like extreme. Yeah like just a sex focus that dominates or it at least passively exists in your brain at all times and for you know a while after you orgasm that that fades away and you can sort of view things.
  • [49:17] Keith/Mike: Without your your you know sex obsesssed lizard brain for a moment in time. Yeah I think that women I really think that women experience something that's more or less the opposite of this this is assuming they like orgasm that they are probably assuming the orgasm that may not be us I don't know if that matters still I don't think they get the like. Well, but okay, but before a postoc clarityty thing. Orgasm would be like the is typically the the starting point for the post-na clarity. But regardless they I think the women the thing you re is and women experience sort of rush of osyocin or something and feel closeness after orgasming that's been my experience too like subjectively is it's like it makes for. Act very close to you and connected and stuff like that. Yeah, whereas for a guy. It's like it's it's it very frequently can actually bring on like what am I doing with my life like why am I what am I doing I just spent an hour like you know pumping my hip or what not an hour I spent 10 minutes yepping my hips into just you you look at. Happened very objectively and it does not make me feel bonded. It makes me feel like I need to leave. Yeah I do feel fight or flight. Yeah, it's strange I do feel more bonded to my partner after having sex. But yeah I don't know I think an hour after sure I agree that completely like you. Kind of grateful and it's exciting because maybe you're gonna have sex again later? Yeah, but but right after I not it's I have this like kind of curious set of emotions that are like it's like why did I why did I spend so much effort pursuing this activity. Do you think that. Do you think that your behavior is adaptive or your experience is adaptive really is it because men what are you supposed to sprint away from your partner after sex I think they need to go back to work. Yeah, they go back to hunting. Yeah, they got to go back to like feeding yeah feeding the tribe or whatever is hot. It's not that useful like yeah. So why do I so why is my experience different. Well I mean not everybody. Yeah I mean like there's some variance every yeah, every everything is on but did I learn it did is did I learn it through culture I don't think so because for me, it's really this is the thing like the the experience of like needing to. Finger or whatever shudder to think about fingering if my nuts up in there but finger a woman or get her to orgasm after I organizgasm is really difficult for me and I basically just steel myself mentally against it's like ah now if I'm given just a few minutes gets a lot better, but just right, then it's like ah like I really don't want to like. Even bother me. For example I'm still my penis is still the vagina let's say she squeezes my penis. Yeah I'm like a minute postjaulation I don't like that you're annoyed. It's too much. It's like softing into this hu you don't experience that at all no to do not.
  • [52:08] Keith/Mike: And I can overcome it intellectually but I feel this deep life feeling like ah we know how? yeah I mean if if ah if she tried to initiate sex immediately again that would be annoying because I can't like ah but that's not what you're talking about it's if she does something that implies loving or caring. Ah, that would not actually I think if she said like I won you to fuck me a again I'd like that they'll be better. Hu it's the thing that's irritating is the it's the intimacy closeness like oh man, it's like it's like it's like ah now I got paid a piper. My expectation is that your experience is more rare. My experience so I'm not sure you could people should write us in at y m md pod on Twitter or Y Mmd poditch you know http://dotcom ah okay let's do 1 more this person says we've addressed this before but I think it's been like 25 episodes. So let's do again, do guys really care about a girl's history. So body count. I've seen so many posts recently like five this week guys wanting to break up with their girlfriends because the girl is more experienced than him any experience at all or is engaged in kinky things like nmf threesome in 1 it was just because she shared a fantasy she had of getting gangbanked. She wasn't even asking him to do it that society was becoming more sex positive and feminist. Why is this happening. How many guys are like this in y'all's experience. Okay I don't care about the cultural norms about this fador. Ah I do think that women should basically prefer men that have higher quote unquote body count. Really why? because. I think they're more likely to know how to deliver orgasms just arguing by extremes again as we did earlier like a virgin is going to be clueless right? like he's not goingnna know? Yeah but women are not women are not usually and regularous sexual relationships for orgasms. Well okay, fine. But say they're looking okay fine, but let's say they want a competent sex partner. Oh sure I mean like that. although although really it's not it's actually it's not the number of partners. It's the number of times event sex. Well it's although you might repeat part repeat with the same partner if if we have a man. 1 of these people on the having fun hobbying sub who's got a body kind of like 700 yeah, they're probably not very good at pleasing women because they it's all prostitutes. Yeah, okay, but we're not talking about causation here though. It's my my expectation would be you want someone to have had a few. Partners that they were with for like a year or more because some women orgasm in completely different ways. So you want him to you know have seen a few different things and you want him to have been with them for long enough so that he you know unlocked the lock.
  • [54:53] Keith/Mike: You don't know that he did though I mean it must be actually interesting. You don't but I bet it correlates with experience must be interesting for a woman I've actually never thought of this before which is weird is I think a lot about this stuff. It must be interesting for a woman to sort of spin that left wheel in a new relationship and be like will this guy know how to have sex but took 2 like. You know what an orgasm is for a woman because some huge percentage of men don't even understand yes and like there was another complaint or something I saw online recently complaining about men like saying things like are you there yet? are you're almost there because they expecting the woman to basically be like I'm coming. Yeah yeah, that's like the worst possible thing you can say. But pressureur on them. Yeah, and it doesn't it's well, it's also irrational shows. You don't know what you're doing because that's not how the sexual response system works for women. They're not like they're not calibrated in the same way that men are about like okay you know I'm pretty close to nutting now. Maybe that nut out. They really do it in the same way. sure sure the pressure's terrible. Um, but anyway so when a woman has sex with a man like she doesn't with a new partner like when a man goes to sex with a new partner He's gonna be interested ins me thinking what does she look like naked or where parts look like you know. Ah, tight as she may be stuff like that like some kind of physicality but you're not really going to be worried about like whether she's gonna whether it's gonna work or not yeah I mean yeah I was gonna say conversely most men prefer women with low body counts. Ah, for sure. 0 is bad. You don't want to like have the stress and pressure of being someone's first yeah, you really don't want to think about her other parts right? Yeah, it doesn't bother you as questions it doesn't bother me like yeah, we've talked about this for maybe I should just clarify my position I don't care. You don't care as long as there's some reasonable backoff period between the last guys. Yeah right I don't want to go yeah 2 hours after their last last person three green pi so to be gone. Yes, ah and anything else. Well I would like them to have gotten an s std test right? like I ra to the extent that somebody with a zillion previous partners is more likely to have stis that is obviously a a concern but you can mitigate that with with with tests but is there something is it setting that aside is there any emotional I don't like emotionally I don't feel like they're sullied. And anyway I know a lot of people do I definitely I know you do? yeah but for me I don't know I don't know if I'm like enlightened or something but I don't or if I'm or if or if it's bad but I it does it does not bother me which is good because I'm 41 and.
  • [57:36] Keith/Mike: New sexual partners are unlikely to be virgin and by you no no I think that I think the like look I think every every guy's going to have some sort of backoff period I think I would just prefer it to be like a couple weeks or maybe a month okay not want to be like alternating with another guy like every three days that would bump me out whereas I think for you that would be less. Just said fung you out. Yeah, why does that thumb you out. Um because some sort of lack of loneliness. It's like it's like it's like you this room right? and like I go in the room suddenly guy goes in the room. We're sort of sharing the room. He's there sometimes he looks here right? Oh sometimes when I stayed like I have to when i. And not ocd at all. Yeah, but when I go to like a hotel it bothers me a little bit like how much jiz is on the mattress underneath the sheets have you seen those have you seen the tv show where they yeah go to hotels with the black light. Yes, and I mean there can't not be because they put. You know I believe let's say they do a good job of the sheets like they bleach everything they watch it. That's fine. There can't not be yeah, still underneath that sheet There's some really I stuffed I agree and that kind of bothers me huh. Okay, well those those 2 things you don't want to share to people those 2 things corroborate each other or they shared glasses with people. Yeah, like other people's Nas I don't mind dirt and like just sort of nat. But other people it kind of gross me out. Yeah I don't mind sharing toothrushs at all. So I wonder if there's some sort of consistency would you be willing to share a condom. Ah, you condo? Yeah, why not it would would your you be totally ra like look this isn't gonna work. It's been stretched too much or would it be that like let's say it could be washed out if I use said'd be stretched too much. Yeah that's not that's just not pla. So no I don't want share a condom good. Ah. And now that you mention it now that you mention it ah look how it has to share a gdo but if I can be sure that it was disease free and that it would fit the same way I don't I'm not particularly grossed out by the. Thought of like my penis touching someone else's pen that would be like right? Yeah, if it was washed or whatever. Yeah, the machines still bother me, but it's something else there they're like yeah I can't come up with like con on a new example, but if there was some parf that could be still kind of dirty from the other guy and that's the thing is it's like I feel like there's an emotional measure I know that after a very brief period of time. There's no real like. And left you a woman but still like I'd rather luxury. Yeah yeah, okay, so for you yeah, so we both agree that like right after another person is just objectively terrible I just think I would prefer and then it's not right.
  • [01:00:14] Keith/Mike: And then but you can see that like after some period probably around 24 hours self-cleaning other oven properties make it so that it's indistinguishable from 24 hours up to 2 years, right? like it's be like 7 okay, fine, whatever, whatever that number is we could haggle about that. But there's some number and then even after that time has passed you. You still feel icky for a little bit longer after that. And that's just your not having come cd or whatever you would that would bother me more than like the poop in the woman's colon probably what? What do you mean? I'm just starting on an anal like look you can't clean your rectina out perfectly and so if I had to choose oh the possible presence of a few. Sperm particles is more bothersome than a few fecal artists. Ask yeah because it's the yeah like I because I like there's a which is funny because you know as everybody says the shape of the male penis is to plunge out of the man's semen but like I don't want to plunge out there. Do you want to plunge out the and sema. No. No I do not but so I know but that's maybe that's not I think fit for I think my worldview. My view here is the same for for poop and seamen. It's like look as long as it's clean. I'm fine I don't need like some extra buffer to feel okay about it I guess when you were able prehistorically I would much rather if i. If I found out that some other man tried to inseminate someone that I wanted to control I would much rather rinse her vagina out with water than have to plunge it out of my cock yes and plunging out with my cock seems really I'm not sure that's why our cocks are shaped way. They are okay, well let's meditate on this I making can maybe we could start the next episode. And so that's a wrap on episode 65 of your mileage may vary. We can be contacted at ymmvpod on Twitter or by email at http://ymmvpoditchmail.com we still pay 10 bucks for feedback and always enjoy hearing from you so please hit us up thanks to Mike first time. Thanks to you for your decision to listen and we hope you'll join us next week on your mileage may berry.