Enjoy YMMV? Please click the above button to subscribe to the show!
Give us your email for show notes and reminders:  
To participate or give feedback, email us at ymmvpod@gmail.com.

Episode 76: AOC In Bondage? Labia Issues, Paid Relationships, "Platonic" Oral

Team YMMV | 7-21-2022 | 1:06:36

Read The Transcript

      RSS             S      

Keith is in Albania, but that didn't stop us from connecting to bring you some fresh content. I'm not ashamed to say that Episode 76 is more sexually stimulating than the January 6th hearings.

We discuss bondage, and not the fake kind that happens when you're arrested while protesting the Supreme Court and put your hands behind your back, but the real kind when someone uses velcro straps and metal fixations. Real serious stuff, except the guy who is doing it in our story asked how his partner was feeling a few too many times (in our opinion).

Another group of women are concerned about the smell and look of their vaginas, so we discussed at some length whether there's much they can do about that. And, we had some more talk about the optimal way for sex to be offered for sale to men. No matter how much we circle the topic, we reliably conclude that sugar relationships are optimal economically and psychologically for all who want to be involved in such situations.

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/76/bondage

https://ymmv.me/76/talking-shit

https://ymmv.me/76/platonic-blow

https://ymmv.me/76/odor

https://ymmv.me/76/odor-2

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships using candor and humor that is sometimes controversial but usually in good faith Today. We're going to have what I anticipate to be an extensive conversation on vagina smell a bit on vagina look as well. We'll talk about what could make prostitutes more intriguing. We'll talk about loss of control in bondage and much more I'm Keith my co-host is Mike Mike I'm here to let you know I enjoyed your solo episode last week
  • [00:25] Mike: No, that's great. Good to hear it was there anything in particular that ah that turned you on or off. Okay.
  • [00:30] Keith: Um, nothing turned me on I thought it felt more organized than your last solo episode and enjoyed various topics like for example. You had a question where a woman was wondering how she could make herself folate things more comfortably I think she complained she had a gag reflex issue or something. Do you remember this that conversation.
  • [00:57] Mike: I do and I revealed that I had ah tried this with some kind of a dildo in my or yeah I guess with a dildo. Yeah.
  • [01:04] Keith: Yeah I wanted to double click on that. So ah like I have never tasted my hot seamen I have also never fillated anything. Okay, that is not exactly true I have like with a banana for like a None
  • [01:17] Mike: Yeah, yeah.
  • [01:23] Keith: But I've never given it like a real effort. You know I've never like tried to trigger my gag reflex or like actually done like I've I've done it like sort of like mockingly or performatively just for a moment but I've never certainly gotten a dildo and and done like a little scientific experiment like it sounds you have.
  • [01:38] Mike: Well I mean a couple things about this one is I didn't buy or have obtain or have access to the Dildo specifically for this maneuver. It was just available to me in the certain situation.
  • [01:46] Keith: Ah.
  • [01:51] Mike: And um I think I did I would say that I get it was more than just like a joke I like was curious to see like what various sensations were would be triggered and as I mentioned on the show like the problem was that it was it like it absorbed lubrication so that it was quite dry I was surprised by the. Ah.
  • [02:06] Keith: Um.
  • [02:10] Mike: Extent to which the lack of lubrication made it extremely uncomfortable I didn't then say oh I'm going to lubricate it or you know see what it's like to really jam this home I think because there's no yeah, there's no value to doing such a thing I've also tried to do that with a banana before.
  • [02:26] Keith: Um.
  • [02:27] Mike: The same curiosity but in all cases it's been pretty uncomfortable and I think it's only something that you would want to perfect if it were ah useful in your life somehow. So I've gone no further.
  • [02:37] Keith: Do you think that women start with some sort of low skill in this area and then can train up to high skill forget for? Okay, forget um technique because Technique can obviously be improved, but what about just physical ability to perform the.
  • [02:43] Mike: Yes, definitely yeah.
  • [02:57] Keith: Ah, physical moves needed to be done huh.
  • [02:59] Mike: Definitely I mean I think that I think that there it's not particularly natural to like there might even be some sort of like fear reaction but certainly a gag reflex when something's put far back in your throat. You have to know what to do with your tongue which I actually don't know exactly. I've seen ah videos where women suggest that kind of sticking your tongue out actually is sort of helpful. Um, but yeah, just generally kind of becoming familiar with the different experience different feelings and I know that a common somewhat common thing for women to do is to sort of use their toothbrush like it's like ah you can desensitize yourself or sort of.
  • [03:18] Keith: Ah.
  • [03:33] Keith: Oh.
  • [03:34] Mike: You know, have some sense but certainly I mean look if if it's something you're doing somewhat frequently. It makes sense to well at a minimum. You're going to get better at it just naturally, but it also makes sense to reduce the discomfort to the extent there is some.
  • [03:48] Keith: Okay I guess it's a little bit this is dark but it's sort of like a bulimic can get really good at bulimia she could get to a point where it's really easy for her to regurgitate or throw up the food. She's eaten and so I guess a person.
  • [04:03] Mike: Um, sure.
  • [04:07] Keith: Can get better at suppressing or gag reflex and whatever other things need to be done to approach oral with enthusiasm rather than trepidation. Okay, ah you also I don't remember the context. Unfortunately, maybe you do you were talking about prostitutes and.
  • [04:21] Mike: And I will.
  • [04:26] Keith: Why they are sort of uncompellling to you. There's there's something about knowing that they've been with a ah bunch of other men. Do you remember that discussion.
  • [04:32] Mike: Oh well, that's a very I mean I That's that's a feeling. It's a very deep seated and I do remember discussing it sure.
  • [04:41] Keith: I also feel some ickiness towards prostitutes and I spent a lot of time thinking I went on a couple runs last week I think I spent the majority of both runs turning this over in my mind. What could be done to make prostitutes more interesting. To to you or me.
  • [05:01] Mike: Well I I mean the None idea that I've come and we've actually discussed this before I'm not sure if we've discussed it on the show but I had the idea that ah a while back that if a man was very was truly wealthy, truly wealthy man. He could have some kind of a personal assistant that. Hires prostitutes and the specific thing is like maybe he doesn't know what's happening meaning the wealthy guy doesn't know that his okay hang on hang on. Let me just finish for the for the listeners. So they know what the story is and then the way the experience as the very wealthy person that you would have is you go to a bar and there are just women who approach you and want to date you and and to be.
  • [05:23] Keith: Yeah, yeah, oh.
  • [05:40] Mike: To be or but you know whatever seem very interested within you sexually and to be fair I've a couple of times or maybe 3 times had discussions with ah with with colleagues or people at friends where they would go to either in Las Vegas or in Los Angeles and get like bottle service at a club or a bar. And basically have this experience because the bottle service is so outrageously expensive that it suggests that you have money and women actually will ah come over and and apparently then it leads to sexual escapades and of course you don't know the body count of said women right.
  • [06:00] Keith: Right.
  • [06:13] Keith: Right? Okay, so the 2 things that make prostitutes less compelling to me. Maybe there's more but the None main ones are one ah, they've slept with a lot of other men. There's some ickiness associated with that perhaps recently which makes it which amps it up even more. And None they don't like you and so the ego component of ah, a sexual encounter where yeah you think they want it from you is is totally lost and so yeah I mean that that discussion you yeah that little. You just said is is addresses 2 which is yeah you want you want to be able you want your mind to believe that they want to be there. They're not just doing it for the money. Okay.
  • [07:00] Mike: Right? I know I also know from from reading like the having fun hobbying Subredd I mean actually no, That's not the one. There's There's 2 subreddits that are relevant here sex workers and sex workers only I'm not totally clear on the difference between the 2 But ah sex workers only does seem to be a little more unfiltered. So Maybe maybe they boot out people that are not like that's say they're male and their profilers me anyway. I I didn't You can just go to sex workers only and read it I did get I got banned from cam.
  • [07:25] Keith: How did you get in. Our text. Alright.
  • [07:36] Mike: Girl problems or whatever that one was because I I don't want to get into that again. But I got banned from that one anyway. Um, so so the thing I want to say is that from reading those I actually think that this is a general thing I've experienced in my life that I often do too much research into things. Ah and then.
  • [07:36] Keith: Right? right.
  • [07:51] Keith: Listen.
  • [07:55] Mike: Sometimes it's better to not know so how something works for example, like Placebos with drugs like if you know a lot about the placebo effect I suspect I can't prove this but I suspect that someone who knows a lot of but about the placebo effect. It's I'm sure it still works on them but less because you have this knowledge and I've had I've experienced things kind of similar to that before. Um.
  • [08:00] Keith: Yeah.
  • [08:14] Mike: And the thing I learned from the sex worker subreddit is that ah these women Willie Wils like they may book up guys an hour at a time and have like four guys a night right so then you're you're talking about very recent activity.
  • [08:30] Keith: Yeah, yeah I mean that's the nightmare scenario I think I could at least pretend to myself that the person is clean enough I mean the nightmare is that you're like swishing around in some other dude semen like that is that is.
  • [08:32] Mike: That you have to contend with.
  • [08:48] Mike: Why does that bother you so much to set of curiosity.
  • [08:49] Keith: You go to avoid that Maximally and then I don't know it feels revolting. There's some I don't know. Yeah I mean there's some biological reason.
  • [09:02] Mike: Um, it's like an involuntary threesome.
  • [09:06] Keith: Yeah I mean yeah, there's some biological reason right? I don't want to be competing I Guess um although going last is obviously better than going first I don't know unless the sperm's already gotten up there and fertilized the egg Anyway, in any case I don't want to be dealing with some other dude's actual semen. But.
  • [09:16] Mike: Biologically.
  • [09:25] Keith: Even if you remove that like even if I can be positive that you like you know douched and it's been 72 hours or whatever or a week or whatever it is that you need to decide that the vagina is physically fresh enough. There's still this notion of she's been with hundreds of men None Whatever it may be that is.
  • [09:45] Mike: Right? The and and also the ah the empathy you called it ego but you could have considered empathy that like you know she doesn't actually want to be doing it and so you're forcing someone although on the flip side of that I mean if you buy a massage like the person doesn't really want to be massaging you they'd rather take your money and just run away.
  • [09:45] Keith: Sort of problematic. Um.
  • [10:02] Mike: Ah, 1 other thing I would mention is that um I actually had an experience in college with a ah female partner who ah in very quick succession had dated 3 different men and I was one of them boys. Whatever and ah, we we knew each other and so we decided to discuss it and ah.
  • [10:13] Keith: Yeah.
  • [10:19] Keith: Okay.
  • [10:22] Mike: Ah, ah, the guy so the and it's interesting. The guy who had gone None his almost entire contribution of the conversation was just to repeatedly tell us that he was None He was really proud of that.
  • [10:32] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah I mean he should have been that is ah it's a good troll. He's he's He's right to be proud of that and yeah, good on him twisting the knife there I think I do have a possible solution to this.
  • [10:42] Mike: Yeah.
  • [10:49] Mike: Okay.
  • [10:51] Keith: I think it's something ah with using seeking dot com or one of the sugar baby sugar daddy websites I think what you would need to do is go on a bunch of dates. You know. Go on one every night or whatever I assume you have infinite resources at your disposal here so you could tell the women look ah I will pay you several hundred dollars to have lunch or dinner with me and if we you know, get along great. We'll see each other again and if we don't we'll we'll just move on. And then you can basically vet them right? So like that'll be enough money to get basically anyone out of bed and out of their apartment and and get them to meet you and then sure there's going to be some failure rate where you know maybe None out of 10 I don't I don't know what the ratio would be probably has something to do with who you are as a person. But some some percentage of those women will actually you know quote unquote fall for you and actually like you or you'll at least be able to pretend to yourself that they do and you know the exercise of going out to dinner with a bunch of attractive. But. Potentially not into you women would be kind of annoying but it might also be kind of fun if you view it as you know like a pageant or something. Ah.
  • [12:12] Mike: There is so there is a ah substantial usage I know from reading of seeking arrangement for effectively escorts I would point out however that you have violated all 3 of the maxims all 3 elements of the maxim of the having fun hobbying subreddit which are value volume.
  • [12:30] Keith: Right.
  • [12:31] Mike: And variety and I think you actually have violated all 3 so these these are people who want to have sex with a different woman every night ah if they want.
  • [12:36] Keith: But they've gotten over those men have somehow gotten over the ah yeah, the problem of not finding it as compelling to sleep with women who are obviously not into you.
  • [12:42] Mike: The stigma.
  • [12:50] Mike: And they don't mind swimming in another man's seed. Yeah, that's right.
  • [12:53] Keith: Right? Yeah I Guess I've gotten over problems 1 and 2 So Yeah I think my strategy addresses both of those like you could just pick women that seem ah fresh and you could ah. If you see enough of them. You'll you can decide which ones you think are actually into you.
  • [13:11] Mike: Yeah I think we agree on this, you're basically advocating for sugar daddying instead of prostitutes I agree. Sure.
  • [13:16] Keith: Yeah, at least to meet to meet my needs which you know maybe I should just try to get over 1 and 2 But.
  • [13:25] Mike: I mean I and I well know I think that it's it goes beyond that I actually think that with a sugar baby I mean you can see this on the sugar Lifestyle Forum subreddit plenty often. They do actually kind of fall for the guy to some extent. Not always, but it often happens and um. The the woman it makes sense logically benefits from having an arrangement with one person instead of having a lot of different clients or whatever so you get actually both of those and it's it's optimal for both people. So.
  • [13:51] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure I can detect if someone I'm seeing is philandering I don't know philander is the right word there is is milling about with other.
  • [14:08] Mike: Is there some sort of finger test. You do to the the the Vulva or Vagina you can just tell. Emotionally.
  • [14:09] Keith: Gentlemen. No, there is no gynecological exam that could tell me this unfortunately I feel like it. Yeah, you can I don't know maybe I'm overly sensitive or maybe I'm like over overly fitting a line here but I feel like you could just tell from texting patterns. Ah like people. Women in particular have like a texting signature. You know like you'll you'll message them and they'll message back. You know on average in some amount of time or with with certain amount of enthusiasm or or characters or sentences and when that Cadence is broken to me. It's like.
  • [14:49] Mike: Her.
  • [14:50] Keith: Super obvious and so yeah I feel like I'm able to detect Shenanigans potentially going on that way and I'm I'm not sure if I'm better at that or worse at that than most. But I think I can tell. But.
  • [15:04] Mike: Sure.
  • [15:07] Keith: But of course everyone who's been cheated on probably thinks they can tell. So yeah I'm not sure all right? Let's move on ah when you were living in France did you ever go to one of these cabaets I'm I'm not sure what they called like Moullan Rouge or the lito or anything like that. Yeah.
  • [15:18] Mike: I did not because they're for tourists and they're extremely expensive now some french person will be like oh no, that's not true. They're not all for tourists but like the ones Keith's talking about are for tourists.
  • [15:28] Keith: Yeah, the 2 I mentioned are the 2 most popular the lito is literally like halfway down the shamp Si Lee say it's $150 a person the moullan rouge is at the bottom of Mon Matra am my saying that right? okay.
  • [15:42] Mike: No I didn't know there was a I didn't know there was a cabaret halfway down the shoulder D Here you go Moona Ho is yeah Mom Mom Ma Ma Mare That's true.
  • [15:45] Keith: Bottom of the ah yeah, there is and it's expensive. Um, and then you know right? of course and of of course it's it's expensive Alyssa and I went to the crazy horse which.
  • [16:02] Mike: Um, in San Francisco that's a yeah, that's a that's that's a down and dirty strip club. Not let's let's hear about it.
  • [16:04] Keith: I Think ah. Yes, I'm not sure about the history here. But I think all of the strip cubs that name crazy horse are sort of a a nod or a reference to the Parisian cabaret but the crazy horse is famous or infamous I suppose for being the only one that has.
  • [16:17] Mike: Okay.
  • [16:26] Keith: Actual nudity. So in the Moulin Rouge The women all wear like tassels on their nipples but at the crazy horse. All of the women are nude for basically the whole show and no no, just holess. The show was interesting and that apparently.
  • [16:35] Mike: Are they full nude or just topless. Ok.
  • [16:46] Keith: The way they hire for it is they basically measure the women's bodies and they need to have certain ratios and sizes they all need to have basically large bee or small C breasts they measure their aerola so that they're all, there's some. Perfect or proportion of Ariola size. They've decided is perfect. They they care about Ariola color their hair all needs to be a certain length.. There's.
  • [17:13] Mike: Does I mean they all have to be Caucasian sounds not very woke to me.
  • [17:20] Keith: That's a I believe I believe so I'm trying to remember if there was you know a token. Um I don't think there was I think they were all Caucasian. Um.
  • [17:32] Mike: Okay.
  • [17:36] Keith: I don't remember Melyssa's not in the room. So I can't ask her but in any case, they all look effectively identical and they're exquisitely attractive but about halfway through the show I sort of realized I was doing this thing which is.
  • [17:53] Mike: Beating off.
  • [17:54] Keith: Yeah I managed to contain myself. You know each number has there's some solo numbers but each number has like 9 women on this stage and they're you know, moving around in these provocative ways and they're so identical that my normal practice of sort of.
  • [18:04] Mike: No.
  • [18:14] Keith: Evaluating which one is hottest and you know focusing on that one was completely neutralized I couldn't decide like I couldn't figure out who to focus on and the experience was a little bit I don't know terrifying's not the right word but it was just confusing I couldn't choose someone I couldn't. I could see I could intellectualize that there's just this smorgasborg of of beauty and opportunity in front of me but I couldn't it was It wasn't It wasn't that intriguing or compelling it was. It was a strange. Yes.
  • [18:42] Mike: Oh it actually diminished it. It diminished it because there were too many up ah kind of high quality targets.
  • [18:51] Keith: Um, yes I think the excessive availability was a negative for me. It was strange.
  • [18:58] Mike: What? Okay okay I mean excessive availability like is often a negative for men like going to say a strip club that and the the blank look in the Performer's eyes followed by them coming down and asking if you want to dance honey but it's all it's just I mean they just look there. It's just a job.
  • [19:04] Keith: Yeah.
  • [19:11] Keith: Right? Fried right? right? yep.
  • [19:18] Mike: Um, so ok, um, but you yeah, you specifically detected something around like you if there had been more variety in the women's appearances. You think you would have enjoyed the show significantly more huh.
  • [19:26] Keith: I think so yeah I wonder if they were if they threw in some less goodlooking people if it yeah it was it was odd I I felt very strange leaving the theater I didn't talk to Alissa I was like that made me feel really weird. It was it was an experience. A feeling I'd never had before which was just overstimulation but total lack of response to said stimulation. It was was weird.
  • [19:53] Mike: Huh What did alis I think I would imagine for a woman. It's kind of like hey I could just see this by going in the women's locker room like.
  • [19:59] Keith: I think Alyssa I mean she enjoyed the the pomp and circumstance and you know getting dressed up and you know having a glass of champagne and this you know old parisian theater. She liked that she likes um she'd she would probably identify as like 10% bisexual or something and so she likes looking at women's bodies. Um and she didn't I think she just appreciated the artistry of it I don't think the the problem I was having which is why am I not aroused by this didn't really occur to her.
  • [20:34] Mike: Yeah I mean state It might have been some sort of combination of like a very heterosexual thing which is seeing naked women with a very gay thing which is a kind of musical stage show. So so maybe you were You're like I I'm not sure if I should. Ah.
  • [20:36] Keith: And the same way it did to me.
  • [20:45] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [20:51] Mike: I'm not sure which direction to go which way I swing here. Yeah.
  • [20:53] Keith: Yeah, yeah, now the the experience which is generally confusing. Okay, all right? So and it was I would recommend it because it was it wasn't that expensive I'm not going to say the price but compared to. The other two I mentioned the Milan Rouge and the lido. It's half the price or whatever and it's weird having a somewhat sexual experience that goes on an axis that I haven't seen before. So yeah, anyway, all right, Let's move On. Um, I've been thinking about as we get better tools for ah, orgasming Solo So Better Sex Dolls more. Content tailored to me using machine learning these kinds of things and if I somehow achieve the ability to have what I would self-report as a peak orgasm effectively whenever I would like I'm wondering how. There's various interesting ways that that will affect society but I'm less interested in that in this for the sake of this conversation I'm interested in How would my experience as a person change like do you think you would become less driven to achieve anything. If You could just have a peak orgasm without any effort whenever you liked.
  • [22:29] Mike: Um, I mean I think the answer to that's got to be yes like I mean there already is people attribute I mean for example in Japan people attribute some sort of lack of motivation among younger men to.
  • [22:43] Keith: Um, yeah.
  • [22:45] Mike: Ah, the availability of online content I have to think that's true around the world. Um, and yeah I mean it would. It's a primary motivation for men like I think that women often Misunderstand this they think oh well the guy wants to have a family or whatever which is true. It's not that that isn't true, but ah. Those are more intellectual pursuits or like things where the guys has to talk themselves into it or see the the value proposition whereas like the very direct one is this sort of visceral one for men and if it were perfectly satisfied or nearly satisfied by technology that would pose a real threat to a whole bunch of things.
  • [23:22] Keith: Do you think there's something that technology can't do for example, is it the case that having a somewhat adversarial relationship with your partner is required to make sex.
  • [23:28] Mike: Now.
  • [23:42] Mike: I I mean honestly I think for men ah the sad truth is maybe not sad, but the reality is that ah men are probably maximally aroused by like rotating the partner pretty frequently. So I'd.
  • [23:42] Keith: Maximally compelling.
  • [23:59] Mike: Be surprised if an adversar relationship. Add a lot of value now you might say oh I really like this 1 partner but that's probably because of their skill set the way you're attracted to them or whatever and so then an algorithm would just have to produce virtual partners that sort of match those things.
  • [24:01] Keith: Yeah.
  • [24:12] Keith: Right? right? Yeah I mean the end game here is a hollow deck where the person behaves exactly as you would like and so obviously in that case. But yeah, if there was some sort of like I don't know.
  • [24:27] Mike: Oh I think you want to seduce them I think I think look I think that if I think the ideal for a guy is something like a holodeck I I think the the holodeck by the way is like a thing from Star Trek the next generation probably other Star Trek things were basically yeah, it's like this who knows why it's built into the space of the ship.
  • [24:40] Keith: Yeah.
  • [24:47] Mike: Makes no sense because it obviously would like the cat. However, many holidays they have like the top ranking officers like let's say they have 5 then the top 5 officers would become like incapacitated by this thing. So anyway, they ah yeah I mean so I have given this some thought I think most ah young men when they did.
  • [24:56] Keith: Ah, right, right? right.
  • [25:05] Mike: Find out about the holiday and Star treer like oh let me what would I do with that and I think yeah, the optimal the optimal thing would be something like no, it wouldn't be exactly oh I want exactly what I want to have happen. It would be you go to a party or a bar and then there's some amount of Serendipity and also not every time would you score like if you scored every single time it would be kind of not great.
  • [25:08] Keith: Right.
  • [25:17] Keith: Yeah, right.
  • [25:25] Mike: So you'd want to have that feeling and I do think ah I think that men could do that like None of times in a row. The scenarios would change each time but I think I think it would become extremely addictive and guys would just be like yeah I'm and I'm going to go back to the hall deck this evening.
  • [25:32] Keith: Yeah. Bright right.
  • [25:41] Mike: No, you can't do it all day but it would it would occupy like 4 hours a day for every man.
  • [25:46] Keith: Yeah, yeah I think so too I've promised for a long time for us to like tackle this topic about what sort of Dystopia will emerge when these tools inevitably arrive but let's still put on that. Um.
  • [26:02] Mike: Yeah.
  • [26:06] Keith: Yeah, all right? Let's let's get into some of these some of these Reddit topics just because yeah, we're halfway through here. Okay, this person says my boyfriend and I played with bondage and I am the luckiest woman alive I'm going to read this because this person makes me feel confused about why.
  • [26:17] Mike: 2
  • [26:25] Keith: Have a vision in my mind. Why the average person who likes bondage likes bondage and this person completely breaks that so she says tonight I told my boyfriend it would be really hot if we could do missionary but with my hands cuffed under my back I have a bondage set with a velcro cuff.
  • [26:30] Mike: It okay.
  • [26:40] Keith: And then a rope that goes down between my shoulder blades with 2 velcro handcuffs at the bottom to basically restrain me with a bit of choking as I struggle and pull on the cuffs. We're getting ready to play and I put the velcro collar part on myself. He offered to do the cuffs because I can't the entire time he was putting them on. He was asking if they were too tight.
  • [26:56] Mike: Um, how yep.
  • [26:57] Keith: If The rope pulled on my throat too much if I was comfy etc see where I'm going with this and it gave me a deep shoulder massage to relax me. We eventually started having sex me and my back unable to move my hands. It was so hot and fun and you reminded me before we began that the second I say stop. He would pull out and uncuff me there is no need for me to say stop wink afterwards. Was spent laying there still tight up. He untied me and started massaging my body to relax. He asked if he hurt me in any way at all I told him absolutely not at worst he hurt me in all the right ways. Wink I feel so cared for safe and loved. Ah I thought.
  • [27:28] Mike: Yeah I saw that post I found it annoying. Yep.
  • [27:36] Keith: Ah, whole point of bondage was to feel a little bit out of control and this doesn't seem to be that.
  • [27:44] Mike: Well I mean it's ah it's like a safe word right? There's some, there's some amount that's good and there's some amount that's not good and so you don't know she's she yeah now she Yata yachted over like a lot of.
  • [27:51] Keith: Okay, but it seems like for her the amount that's good is 0
  • [28:00] Mike: What happened there I mean the story very quickly went from. He's making sure that she's fine to a sorry right at the beginning like oh or is it too tight or whatever and then very all of a sudden it jumps to um, you know? yeah exactly and so you don't yes but presumably.
  • [28:11] Keith: And after care.
  • [28:18] Mike: This would not be a compelling scene or scenario for her if I assume if it was just if he was constantly. He's essentially like simping I Guess you'd call it. Maybe that's the wrong word for that. But he's.
  • [28:27] Keith: I Don't know what the right word is for look I know that people in the bondage community often talk about precare and after care and that sort of stuff and I'm not what's.
  • [28:39] Mike: You don't want to have top drop.
  • [28:45] Keith: Top drop.
  • [28:46] Mike: I just read something about this today. It's it's ah if you if you're the top right? So you're the you're the dominant and then and I think I've experienced this before that's I was like oh yeah I guess I have but to me it's just anyway you you're to the top and then after you nut, you're just like.
  • [28:51] Keith: Ah, yeah, yeah.
  • [29:05] Mike: Why did I do all these things so you need like the after care for somebody to reassure you they oh no, you know what it was. There was a woman where the guy wanted to give her a facial and he just spewed all of her face and then um and then ah.
  • [29:07] Keith: Right? right.
  • [29:17] Keith: Okay.
  • [29:23] Mike: He was like bummed out that he did that he felt like a bad person afterward and they called that top drop now and then there was this whole conversation about like how men's semen is stigmatized which probably should be um, for various reasons. Um, if you.
  • [29:36] Keith: Yes, yeah, or else you have Louis C K masturbating into a plant in front of somebody and say go I thought they didn't mind. Yeah, it should be stigmatized.
  • [29:42] Mike: Right? I mean there's there's a reason it's It's mentioned and men spilling their seed as mentioned in the first book of the bible but people for a long time have been trying to stigmatize this this substance. Um.
  • [29:50] Keith: And.
  • [29:56] Mike: But anyway she was like oh I loved it and all this kind of stuff and he was so that's a top drop right? He's he's you know.
  • [29:59] Keith: Okay, okay, well yeah, but in this case, this would be a bottom rise. She's comforted by how gentle he is ah in the before and after.
  • [30:13] Mike: Yeah, that's irritating. Yeah.
  • [30:19] Keith: Okay, so maybe I guess what you're speculating is well she's written about this in a way that's only talking about the kindness he exposed to her but there may have been some playing around the edge of feeling a loss of control that is not described in her post.
  • [30:30] Mike: Yeah, the thing I didn't get about it is I didn't fully understand where the ropes went it was something kind of strange about going down her back. It's she's like kind of handcuffed or not handcuffed. But it's like restrained like a policeman would the way that ah you've been out of the country but um.
  • [30:39] Keith: Yeah, yeah. Yeah I could explain if you like oh I know what you're good to say here. Go Ahead. You're going to talk about Ao c.
  • [30:49] Mike: Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. What am I going to say. What what did a Oc do.
  • [31:00] Keith: Ah, ah, well, there's there's some debate about so she was arrested in front of the supreme court and there's some debate about whether she pretended to be handcuffed or not This is what you're referring I know this is what you're referring to Okay what I read.
  • [31:12] Mike: Um, yeah, it is She was conducting an insurrection at the Supreme court.
  • [31:20] Keith: Yeah, yeah, the the pro Aoc ah point of view is that whenever you are arrested regardless of whether you are handcuffed. You should put your hands behind your back because that shows deference to the cops and stops the situation stops the situation from escalating.
  • [31:35] Mike: Yeah, but she then she waved to people a couple times so she had to. It's okay so okay, so anyway now whatever. Okay.
  • [31:39] Keith: Yeah, well I don't want to touch this with it with an eighty foot pole I said let me describe to you the the bondage thing that that she set up so it's a collar this. What I believe it is. It's a collar that goes around your neck and.
  • [31:54] Mike: All right.
  • [31:58] Keith: And the back of the collar.. There's a hoop so on the back of your neck and the hoop attaches to some sort of string and then the string goes down to some handcuffs in this case, it sounded like they were velcro that pin your arms behind your back and if you struggle it sort of pulls on the collar. A bit and so it can cause some light choking as she described I think that's what she's talking about.
  • [32:19] Mike: Okay, so if I were if I were a woman and I wanted to get railed I like the term railed I think it comes from ah a video game Anyway, it doesn't come from video I'm sure but that's what I like to imagine from video game if I was getting railed I wouldn't want to have my.
  • [32:28] Keith: So sure.
  • [32:38] Mike: Hands behind my back like that because it's sort of uncomfortable I'd want to have them ah over my head attached to like the headboard right? because it's like in either case, you're basically stopping yourself from pushing the person away or embracing them. But if they're behind your back like he's going to put his weight on you? Yeah well None of all your shoulders kick get like dislocated.
  • [32:44] Keith: M.
  • [32:57] Keith: Yeah.
  • [32:58] Mike: And secondly like your hands are now in this kind of uncomfortable position trapped behind your back and I don't Anyway, when I've done this which was a long time Ago. It wasn't like this. It was the other one with the the hands on the ah the headboard I actually tried. Also being the person restrained but but it was was very boring because it turns out there's not that much a woman can do you like it was like it was like now what and I was like oh that's true. Yeah, so.
  • [33:19] Keith: Yeah, ripe right. Ah, yeah I mean look setting aside that a little bit of physical pain and loss of control and discomfort is part of the bondage play for some people I agree that if the only thing you're trying to achieve is restraint I don't want to be doing a yoga pose or worrying about. Tearing my rotator cuff because of some sort of elaborate setup I would rather just have the restraint be restraining me instead of risking permanent injury.
  • [33:51] Mike: For the for the guy 1 of the things. Yeah, one of the feedbacks I would give to guys about this stuff is like. Do you get it all tied up but see I think a lot of times men want to change the position because like they kind of. Groove in the feeling of their cock in a certain angle in that in that in that pussy that pussy and so you want to kind of switch that angle and then require I mean now you have to untie a bunch of knots do a bunch of things like that to change.
  • [34:11] Keith: Yeah, yeah.
  • [34:24] Keith: Yeah.
  • [34:27] Mike: Position to get that different sensation and so like it could delay your orgasm could lower the intensity I don't know but for the woman I Guess you know she's she's finding it very compelling So that's fine. You know.
  • [34:36] Keith: yeah yeah yeah I guess for the mathematicians at home men want the second None and None derivatives of their penis position to be nonlinear. Let's move on. Um.
  • [34:48] Mike: Um, for sure.
  • [34:55] Keith: Let's see here. Okay, let's get into this I found like 3 posts that ah were on the front page over the last month and the sex subreddit and they all relate to vagina smell. So I think we should get into it.
  • [35:07] Mike: Oh no.
  • [35:13] Mike: Oh is this it wait is is one of them going to be the thing. Okay I was going to bring this up with you. It's very fortuitous. This is coming up so there's a word that I found I put it in my phone and I'm going to get it for you but basically and I found this on I got this on Tiktok just so you know so you know it's true.
  • [35:14] Keith: I Think actually I think this first one has to do with Vagina look.
  • [35:23] Keith: Aha aha.
  • [35:32] Mike: You know it's like true and it's really now maybe I didn't put it in my phone shit. There's a word for a woman I think it's like vapping VAPP I n g maybe I think that's right, actually a woman taking her vaginal fluids and putting them like for a perfume on her on her.
  • [35:43] Keith: Aha.
  • [35:52] Mike: Self so that men become more attracted to her is that going to be 1 of the topics.
  • [35:56] Keith: No, but let's let's let's talk about that for a moment. Okay, they okay, let me try to steal man you did like let me try to steal man the case for for such an activity First let me describe it. Okay, a woman takes her own lubrication or discharge.
  • [36:01] Mike: Oh I texted it to you.
  • [36:13] Mike: Is there a difference I mean I assume they smell around the same I don't I'm not I Actually don't have the expertise to be sure about the I'm assuming that the lubrication would be more watery. Oh wait, you seem to have some.
  • [36:24] Keith: I would expect them to have different chemical I would expect them to have different chemical properties and importantly different pheromone levels. But for the sake of argument. Let's let's let's move on past that all right? So they they take. Some sort of substance from their from their vagina and they rub it behind their ears and is it is it supposed to be enough to be detectable or they're supposed to be supposed to be enough to like have the pheromones be more easily smelled or.
  • [36:44] Mike: Well, it's just like a perfume I you know.
  • [36:57] Mike: I Don't think it's supposed to be detectable I think it's supposed to be subconscious. It's like a pheromone right? Yeah, let's see. Ah.
  • [37:00] Keith: Unclear Okay I don't know I don't know if that would work on me I think I would to the to the extent I would notice it I would just notice that there's some. Slightly off thing about the way this person smells. But maybe I'm maybe I'm being naive here. Maybe the pheromones could seduce me in a okay yeah, go for it.
  • [37:30] Mike: Vabbing v a b b I n g and let me read you the urban dictionary definition because we know that that will be extremely accurate so not vapping actually apparently is the female version of fapping. So with the p okay, a new Tiktok trend a new ticktok trend where women take their discharge.
  • [37:37] Keith: Ah, okay, yeah, yawn.
  • [37:47] Mike: So it's discharge they're very specific on that and put it behind their ears or on their neck in attempt to make someone fall in love with them or to get laid I think there are other things women could do to get that None one done? yeah.
  • [37:56] Keith: Sure. Okay, yeah, just exist. Ah how what is a Tiktok trend like what are people doing on Tiktok with regards to this thing are they I mean they can't show it on camera. Obviously.
  • [38:07] Mike: Seriously.
  • [38:13] Mike: Yeah, they just yeah, they're just talking about it right? note the video I saw was just a woman talking about it and she said she said I'm just.
  • [38:15] Keith: I Guess they could they just can't pan down. You just see them go like this behind their ears I see and if women reported success.
  • [38:30] Mike: Telling people about this new trend and it's putting your insides on your outsides was the way she's described it because of course ticktock is highly moderated so she couldn't yeah okay I think it might work I don't know I mean I think I mean you're the one who claimed famously or infamously that you thought you could smell.
  • [38:36] Keith: Ah, yeah, everything has to be euphemistic.
  • [38:45] Keith: So yep here we go.
  • [38:50] Mike: Which women were aroused or if a woman was aroused just by like being near her in a bar and so like yeah I mean this would just be her being a little more explicit with that.
  • [38:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [39:01] Keith: Yes I think that there have been times when I could smell a woman's ah privates ah out in the wild. Yeah I guess look Okay, let's let's. Be scientific about this for a moment if a woman was you know quote unquote dripping wet and swiped down there and wiped it on her neck or her ears I am sure that I could detect this right? Do you agree.
  • [39:35] Mike: I'm not sure I could but I think you could because you also can detect it through her underwear. So yes I think you probably could.
  • [39:39] Keith: Oh come on. Let's say a woman art fine. Let's say a woman is still dripping wet as before and you are now two feet away from her naked body. Can you smell it in this circumstance.
  • [39:53] Mike: No no I I think I would I like me most of my I mean if it's on my fingers say I can smell it but only I think my fingers have to be within.
  • [39:57] Keith: Whoa! yeah.
  • [40:09] Mike: Six inches of my nose or maybe three inches for me to really I mean yeah that I don't know I don't I just don't look I don't think that I um.
  • [40:11] Keith: If it's dry sure. But we're talking about active evaporation going on.
  • [40:24] Mike: I Prefer a woman's vagina to be a little drier during intercourse. So I don't like to get them that excited. Maybe I don't know I don't know the answer to this I don't know.
  • [40:29] Keith: Yeah, right? Yeah, all right? We we got to move on to the to the larger zoomed out conversation about vagina look because yeah, we got we got we had 3 to get to here all right? This person says.
  • [40:36] Mike: Yes. Ok.
  • [40:49] Keith: Overheard boyfriend talk shit about my privates to his friend me 23 year old female and my boyfriend 26 year old male have been together for a few months now and we spend most days staying at each other's place last night we had sex for the none time it went really well or at least I thought so today when I went out for my routine walk I started feeling dizzy so I came back early I don't know what that's about but moving on. And when I walked in I found him talking on the phone that was when I heard him say he didn't ever want to fuck me again and how hard it was for him to get it up as my quote dark pussy unquote and brown butthole turned him off he then proceeded to say that even the thought of eating me out disgusts him and that he should have thought about this before dating a brown person. Do have really dark privates as compared to my skin tone and I'm really insecure about it. It is partly the reason why I waited so long to have sex with him but I just can't believe he said that and I can't even look at him now I just pretend that I never heard that I know that that was very immature of him but I'm too embarrassed to even confront him. What do I do now. Forgot to mention that he has indeed initiated sexist warning but I made an excuse. This is what confuses me the most okay that last part doesn't matter.
  • [41:49] Mike: So He told his friends that yeah, okay, go on so this is I mean this to me is there's something wrong with this because he tried to initiate so I have a feeling that he has a to put it bluntly like a racist friend who he's ah trying to play it I actually had an experience with this as well in my life when I. Was dating a a black woman and I had a friend who like no no like just like the phone call part. No no, no there was I had no I had no problem with the looks of her body or anything like that. It was just the ah friend.
  • [42:10] Keith: Like this like like what what it? What? What with a dark with the oh I see I see.
  • [42:27] Mike: Who wanted me to say something negative about her and it was obvious that he was wanting me to do that for racial reasons and it was I was very young and I didn't but it was uncomfortable and I didn't I don't know I did I also didn't tell him to go shove it right? I kind of was like oh yeah, you know.
  • [42:31] Keith: Right? right.
  • [42:43] Keith: Right? right? right? right? Yeah, you would you towed a difficult line there. Yeah, it could be it could be I don't look. It is true that women.
  • [42:45] Mike: So that could be what's going on here.
  • [43:01] Keith: Often Have ah coloration around their labia that is darker than the rest of their skin tone. This is exacerbated by having initially dark skin and ah I can imagine someone being. Not a fan of that. But I think this is like our conversation about Labia I Think most people just don't care. They might care a little bit but by the time you're down there I don't think anyone really cares.
  • [43:32] Mike: So the lady on Tiktok who used to be obsessed with um because her about with with explaining the anatomy of clitoriss to people has moved on. She's this black haired lady people can find her on there if they want I'm sure it's quite easy to find I don't know her username.
  • [43:42] Keith: So right.
  • [43:50] Mike: She was absolutely obsessed with this she she was very proud of herself for getting the anatomy of the clitoris according to her put into anatomy textbooks I'm a little skeptical but ok anyway, she's moved on to wanting to reassure women that large labia are cool and in fact, she has all this data stat statistics she quotes and so forth. To say that when men are poll they prefer larger labia hang on. Okay, hang on and ah and that ah I'm going I want to say 2 more things and that ah ah when men did a where they did a poll for who had the most attractive vagina vulva that a woman a porn star with None
  • [44:10] Keith: No, no, no okay.
  • [44:29] Mike: With um, larger labia 1 let me see the None more thing I actually agree with this and I agree and I actually think that men like women with more colored color like more coloration in their vulva and the reason why. Is because it goes back to my belief that what men really want look a man can see a woman in a bathing suit all any day he wants you can just go to the pool and see her what he wants is when she takes that bathing suit off to have it be something like where he's like aha like I saw something.
  • [44:59] Keith: Something sensationally different right.
  • [45:03] Mike: Yeah, he wants to like see he wants to really like get in there and so like if if it's totally boring. It's like well it's kind of cute and attractive in certain ways. But like when it's something that like yeah, she's been hiding this thing from everyone else and then you're the one who sees it like that feels very penetrative Very ah aggressive.
  • [45:18] Keith: Okay, a few a few responses here. So the first is I do like when I'm at the beach or a pool and I look at a girls bikini line and I can see maybe some you know stubble or.
  • [45:21] Mike: But go on to give the counter the counterpoint here.
  • [45:37] Keith: You know hints of pubic hair around that line and so I understand what you're saying about wanting to see something wanting to catch something. Ah, but I think that yeah I'd.
  • [45:44] Mike: Um, yes.
  • [45:53] Keith: Guess I would need to see the methodology for this for this survey, it's tricky you would need to show what would you need to do you would need to show a bunch of vaginas with different size labia all from different angles and then do controls of like all the different angles somehow and. I'm sure the study wasn't done in a way that was perfectly scientific I think men prefer less labia Lesstic discoloration.
  • [46:20] Mike: I think I Just think it depends. So I think we've agreed before that if the question is which is more attractive then like from a beauty standpoint then it's very clear just like the the dancers at the cabaret where they have all the same like perfect shaped nipple or whatever.
  • [46:26] Keith: Yeah.
  • [46:36] Keith: Yeah.
  • [46:38] Mike: There's a similar standard of beauty. However, yeah, there's this other Axis that men operate on which is the sort of like yeah wanting to deflower things Axis and like yeah I mean look like the guy when you when you get in there. Ah,, there's going to be some. You know the interior of her Vagina has a. Ah, look. That's not beautiful in any sort of it's like the interior of your mouth right? I mean it's like pretty hardcore in there and so guys and I think guys like that. It's like ah it's like a why guys like subreddits like lips that lips that grip where it's like these women get their vaginas like slightly turned inside out.
  • [47:03] Keith: Bria.
  • [47:16] Mike: Probably by having sex with dildos while purposely not being very lubricated and guys find that compelling. So I mean I So there's that like I don't There's there's what's beautiful. But then there's like what turns a guy on and like having some crazy shit in there is ah you know you don't you don't for you. It's not a turn on you'd rather it be like just a slit. It's.
  • [47:28] Keith: Right.
  • [47:34] Keith: I Don't know I don't think I mean once a woman's underwear is off I don't think my brain is doing much further vetting for attractiveness I've already.
  • [47:35] Mike: The the beauty is yeah.
  • [47:49] Keith: Decided that I want to be there in that situation I don't think there's much negative that can occur maybe and this is you know potentially cultural. But maybe if they had like an enormous Bush I would be mildly turned off but I don't.
  • [48:06] Mike: Um, confused.
  • [48:09] Keith: Yeah, and it wouldn't stop me from advancing the proceedings. Um, but yeah, okay, let's get to the next one. Okay, this is going to be a segue to the Vagina smell topic. But okay, this person says. Ah.
  • [48:14] Mike: You know all right.
  • [48:27] Keith: Platonic friend wants to give me platonic blowjobs I'm not sure if it's a good idea I might be the biggest idiot in the world or not you tell me I 21 male have been friends with this girl 22 female since we met in college. She's physically attractive but also out of my league. So I never entertain the idea of pursuing a relationship. Last week we were texting and she told me that she'd like to give me platonic blowjobs on a regular basis. Naturally I thought it was a typo but she repeated that she wants to give me oral a few times a week I asked her if this is some sort of social experiment. She said no said that I'm a quiet guy and that she just wants to make me moan this was baffling because the guy she tends to hook up with are nothing like me. So I don't see how she sees my quietness as attractive I asked her why she'd want to do this with me. We had a discussion that left me overwhelmed and flustered and I'm not and I'm even more confused when it comes to her intentions. She made it clear that she's not interested in getting naked or having sex with me. She just wants to give head. There are several problems first I very little sexual experience I think she'll find that a massive turnoff second I wouldn't last long at all and that would be mortifying. Third it feels weirdly wrong to treat her like that I'm feeling conflicted. So ah yeah, i.
  • [49:30] Mike: Well, the None one makes me angry.
  • [49:36] Keith: What was the None one again. Oh yeah yeah I mean look obviously this girl is very attracted to him because despite his like complete meekness and at every turn she's still maximally pursuing him.
  • [49:36] Mike: That he it's wrong to treat her like that I mean he's not she's asking for it.
  • [49:47] Mike: Right? like.
  • [49:53] Mike: The thing usually needs to be aware of is it's It's not going to last very long but go on. Yeah right.
  • [49:55] Keith: Okay, he posts and he posts an update. Well it happens sooner than I anticipated and it went a lot worse than I anticipated.. There's not much to say I came without her even touching me. Ah when she saw me naked she said congratulations on my beautiful dick then she said I look delicious and that I'm all hers. Was already hard and that was enough to send me over the edge over the edge. It was mortifying so I came instantly and kept saying sorry she told me to stop saying sorry I apologize for sake Sorry but she offered to lick me clean which I declined because I felt Shitty I got up and my legs were so shaky that I tripped and fell and hit my head pretty badly. She wanted to help me back up but then.
  • [50:21] Mike: Um.
  • [50:34] Keith: Like cat came and pounced on her afterwards. She told me I did well on my None time and that we can take things slow to be completely honest I'm convinced that she thinks I'm a complete idiot and that she's just trying to spare my feelings I think I fucked up entirely. Okay, the initial reason why I brought this up was I Mean. It seems like there's nothing that this man can do to make her not be attracted to him like he's been as absolutely Beta as possible at every turn and she's still sort of pursuing him and I don't understand.
  • [51:05] Mike: Yeah I mean these did she's just like fetishizing him. That's that was sort of my point is that like he's she's just gonna she's just going to move On. She's like she has some I did I mean did I did this one time I had I had a. Young lady that I sort of fetishized like that and pursued and pursued and pursued. Even though I I honestly was not attracted to her and I was successful and it was kind of like huh. It's like great I don't I'm not yeah it was fine. Yeah.
  • [51:29] Keith: Yeah, it's like when the what's what's the analogy when the dog catches the car that he was chasing.
  • [51:37] Mike: I mean it was yeah it just wasn't great and I think you know we had some kind of a relationship briefly and then she remained more interested in me than her because I had spent so much time pursuing her which was sort of troubling. Ah, but yeah I Just think like there's some kind of a fetish or whatever. She's like fetishized him in some way and ah.
  • [51:48] Keith: Yeah.
  • [51:57] Mike: Yeah I mean like I don't know like the little 3 stooges show of him tripping and nutting all over himself I'm imagining him and like her wanting to lick it up. It's like all right this sounds honestly like she's a guy like I could see a guy doing this like if in a gay situation. You know.
  • [52:01] Keith: Yeah.
  • [52:16] Mike: Like oh yeah I Just want to blow you now I'll do all these things with your cock like it's not this is really uncommon behavior for a woman.
  • [52:21] Keith: Right? Yeah, it sounded pretty uncommon to me too I don't exactly understand what's going on but it got me to thinking is there is there something like this just seemed like this man made a mistake at every turn and ah. I would expect her to nope out of this situation but she didn't is there something that a woman can do that once you've identified her as attractive can immediately shove that to None
  • [52:54] Mike: Yes, ah she would go to the restroom and urinate and then use toilet paper but not get all of it off her labia and then come back and then want to have sex. You are you asking? what what would work on me.
  • [53:03] Keith: Ah, yes, yes, yes, ah right famously? Yes, yes, right? It was gross man. It's not my fault.
  • [53:14] Mike: Because that's an example for you? Ok, um, yeah I mean like well I mean you're trying to Seg weight of vaginal odor here so that would be like some sort of a hygiene issue would be a clear problem ah something involving her having sex with lots of different men would be.
  • [53:22] Keith: Yeah.
  • [53:31] Keith: Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure how that would be obvious.
  • [53:32] Mike: Challenging. Ah well she could tell you she could tell you or you could have that situation I had that I described with like the the men meaning of the 3 men and the guy being like I was first I was first and the other 2 guys being like great man that's good for you.
  • [53:37] Keith: Like how would it be physically obvious. Yeah fine fair fair play.
  • [53:50] Keith: Right.
  • [53:51] Mike: Ah, so the other men could tell you as well. Um, yeah I mean there's probably other.
  • [53:55] Keith: Yeah, okay I guess those all yeah fine all right fine. Let this just get to the pussy small thing I've been beating around the Bush here for too long.
  • [54:05] Mike: Yeah, that's right.
  • [54:10] Keith: Why am I offended that my partner refused to have sex with me because my pussy smells today me female 22 and my partner male 27 we're about to do a quickie in the house before finishing our shores so we were fast. He was turned on then when he opened my legs. He put his stick on my vagina but he grew soft immediately. He then proceeded to say that my vagina smells like milk and rotten egg. He asked if my period was coming soon and I said yes so he figured it might be the shifts in hormones etc because of him going limp so fast I reacted in a negative way. My mood instantly dropped my partner said why are you mad? Did you not ask me to be honest with you part of me appreciates his honesty, but another part of me feels embarrassed and unwanted. Also said that the smell turned him off and that if I was any other girl he wouldn't have even kept his part on mine right now we're in bed but we aren't cuddling like we usually do and we're barely talking I'm sad what should I do? Ah yes, okay, let me read.
  • [55:00] Mike: Get rid of that smell.
  • [55:06] Keith: None other topic here and then we'll roll their sleeves up and get into it. This person says pussy smell rant. Not sure if this is okay to post here but I have something to say I still sleep with my ex and you decided to tell me that my buts that my pussy smells and it's a turnoff I shower before sex every time and I have good hygiene. What is with this culture of men expecting pussy to smell like water all the time because they heard it in some rap song a woman's vagina has a natural ph balance as that changes throughout her cycles. She may experience different smell tastes diet has something to do with the 2 so maybe I need to eat more fruit but my pussy smells like a vagina should sorry if it doesn't smell like water none as long as she doesn't smell rotten or extremely fishy. It's normal am I the only None dealing with this I smell her and she currently smells like vagina. Her must be what she calls her vagina she tastes fine. Maybe a little tangy but not bad and before I get the use a douche comments ladies please do your research or speak to your gynecologist. The one who went to school for years studying vagina.
  • [55:48] Mike: Is.
  • [56:01] Keith: Tell you douches are terrible for the natural ecosystem in your vagina just wanted to see if I'm the only woman dealing with this and wondering if all men are thinking the same or if it's just him that is all thanks right? It okay, Mike here's what I want to know what is the variance in pussy smell individually and across all women. Can a woman know where she falls on that spectrum and can a woman do anything to materially move her position on that spectrum does the does that make does that set up make sense.
  • [56:26] Mike: Yeah I mean obviously she would know for her where she is right? So she would know that there's some potentially.
  • [56:31] Keith: If she's if she's using her fingers as a dipstick and trying every day. Sure.
  • [56:37] Mike: Well, we're just I mean there could be something around like going to the gym or something and like knowing that there's some kind of sweaty odor that that takes place I mean.
  • [56:46] Keith: You told me 20 minutes ago that even two feet away from a vagina you can't smell it.
  • [56:52] Mike: Ah, typical typically. However, if there was something like some kind of a gym related or like some sort of a problematic situation I think look I'm not look okay by analogy here like let's say we I was in the dog with a woman.
  • [57:09] Keith: Ah.
  • [57:11] Mike: And she had some poop going on around her ass like I could smell that so it's not that I have no ability to detect odors and I think that in the same way and actually I have yeah yeah.
  • [57:14] Keith: Yeah, Okay so wait hold on is your position that absent some sort of ah extra event all Vaginas smell roughly. Fine.
  • [57:35] Mike: Yeah I think so.
  • [57:37] Keith: I Think that is my position too. But I am not sure I don't know I've never run into a vagina that was like actually that's not true I've I've run into a couple vaginas that like really were.
  • [57:42] Mike: Okay, wait So We you. Yeah, yeah.
  • [57:57] Mike: Rancid I see and and and and you mean like you you had enough exposure to them to the know that it was like not something specific on that day or in that occasion.
  • [57:58] Keith: Stinkier than others.
  • [58:07] Keith: Ah, one of these people I had sex with twice and it was both times and it was it was enough to play a factor in my ghosting her the other was ah someone that I yeah. Was with for a number of sexual encounters and I think it was yeah it wasn't some sort of I mean I guess it could have been a long term. It's not like we were together for for years so it could have been some sort of temporary but on the order of of months not days affliction.
  • [58:29] Mike: It never changed.
  • [58:46] Mike: Yeah I mean it makes sense to me. There could be some like dietary habit that would play a role. Ah I don't really know what or how and to yeah to move on that spectrum I mean it's probably yeah, there probably are health related things that a person could do to to.
  • [58:46] Keith: Um, not sure.
  • [58:50] Keith: Yeah.
  • [59:04] Mike: Ah, yeah, you got to think that it's There's some relationship between this and the claims made about male semen like smoking being bad for example, excessive drinking things like that. So it seems likely. Yeah.
  • [59:15] Keith: Yeah, there could be other analogies though. Like I think many people have been in Europe for about a month and a half now have wildly disparate body odors. Ah, some people can get away with not wearing deodorant. Apparently all europeans think this is the case some of them cannot get away with not wearing deodorant and the ones who can get away with it. Fine. They should do whatever they want, but there's enough variance there that there's big differences and I don't know if.
  • [59:36] Mike: Sure you.
  • [59:51] Keith: The chinas are like that or not I haven't done enough study.
  • [59:54] Mike: It seems likely that there might be some sort of ethnic related or diet related differences in smell. What's spicy.
  • [59:59] Keith: Oh spicy. Yeah I'm not going to touch the ethnic part but I can imagine that there's diet related things. Ah.
  • [01:00:08] Mike: Well not that it would be good or bad. It just might be different in a way the like would be detectable and surprising or something. Um.
  • [01:00:13] Keith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. Yeah yeah I don't I don't know. Okay, well let's say do you think there's something that a woman can do about it like ah people can wear deodorant if they want to. Address their body odor. Is there something that stops smoking or whatever it is yeah.
  • [01:00:34] Mike: I mean I think you could I mean there are things there they're obvious things like um, yeast infection back Bacterial vagginosis. Well there's actually like medical conditions. You might have that like cause some problem there might be some health related things. There's obviously like bathing a reasonable amount and. Sort of yeah like trying to remove Croft from the area but beyond that there probably isn't actually that much. You can do. You're probably screwed.
  • [01:01:03] Keith: What does a douche do.
  • [01:01:06] Mike: Well, it's like you know and it's like an enema but for your vagina.
  • [01:01:11] Keith: Um, is there something that like sprays water up there with some sort of pressure.
  • [01:01:17] Mike: Yeah, that's what it do is I mean you could also put some chemicals in it which is the thing people say not to do.
  • [01:01:23] Keith: Okay, and the expected result is it removes some sort of something undesirable from inside of you I say.
  • [01:01:34] Mike: Yeah, well I mean like consider this like if I eat spicy Indian food I can detect the smell of the curry in my pea have you had that experience. Okay, so when a woman pees the urine goes all like kind of irrigates her.
  • [01:01:39] Keith: Yeah. Yes, yes.
  • [01:01:52] Mike: Her vulva right? So right? there is an example of a thing where you just immediately would have some impact and I mean yeah I've never done like a smell test on well I mean asparagus would be relevant right? women. Actually it's an interesting question I mean do be women avoid asparagus when they're going to.
  • [01:01:54] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:02:03] Keith: Yeah.
  • [01:02:10] Mike: Have sex they probably should.
  • [01:02:11] Keith: I Don't know if asparagus affects other discharged fluids the way it does urine I'm not sure. There's urine residue. Yeah.
  • [01:02:18] Mike: Um, well, but you understand it doesn't matter because the urine when a woman pes like it's yeah, unless she showers right before a sex and even then there could be residue remaining So it's sort of tricky a man could have the same issue. It's just that like women don't get that surprise until.
  • [01:02:31] Keith: Yep.
  • [01:02:37] Mike: More fluid comes you know like.
  • [01:02:39] Keith: I Wonder if asparagus affects the taste as much as it affects the smell I've never sampled everything equal urine in the past. So I can't can't say.
  • [01:02:47] Mike: Right? Exactly exactly? Yeah I mean I like my one of my yeah one of my base things. There is I think I suspect that some of the odors that people are talking about actually do on a woman do come from urine and I also I should say I Also no joke think that.
  • [01:03:01] Keith: Sure.
  • [01:03:06] Mike: Ah, a significant percentage of the bad tasting semen for men is because there's like a backup of urine from the last time they peed and then it gets pushed out with the semen and the woman's basically getting that. Yeah.
  • [01:03:16] Keith: Fine fine I yeah I agree with both of those things I guess I just want to know I would love the following scientific study. You take a none men or something and you have them taste. The same the same. You get a bunch of women and you have them taste the same women over the court the same woman over the course of a month and they do various things with their diet and exercise and obviously they'll be in different parts of their menstrual cycle and I would like to know again then they score the taste. Of their vagina and I would like to know if there's some sort of very typical average with very low variance or ah, yeah I want to know the shape of these graphs for a single woman and across women and I don't have very good intuition for this to the extent I do have intuition I would. Yes, they coalesce around some sort of mean but I'm just not sure I don't know if this if the woman in this post is right to be so indignant that a man doesn't like the way her vagina smells. Maybe she's. Maybe she does have a smelly vagina maybe that is a thing that and she can't really control it I don't I don't know.
  • [01:04:36] Mike: Yeah, Ockham's razor here is that she has some sort of hygiene issue or medical issue.
  • [01:04:41] Keith: Yeah, it could also be that her partner's immature. But yeah.
  • [01:04:46] Mike: Could be. It could be that he has like no exposure so therefore it doesn't have any idea. Yeah.
  • [01:04:50] Keith: Right? All right? Well, we've gone over time here. So that's enough for episode 76 of your mileage may vary. Thanks to you our intrepid listeners for your time thanks to Mike for his time and a special thanks to me for my time. Hope you enjoyed the show and we hope to have you back next week for more critical discussions on your mileage may vary.