Enjoy YMMV? Please click the above button to subscribe to the show!
Give us your email for show notes and reminders:  
To participate or give feedback, email us at ymmvpod@gmail.com.

Episode 77: "Classy Gentleman" Offered MFF Threesome, Vabbing, Unusual Experiences

Team YMMV | 7-28-2022 | 1:04:18

Read The Transcript

      RSS             S      

Looking for a deep dive into Keith's relationship? Look no further, friend, because this episode is tailor-made for you. These two lovebirds appear smitten, and my lone regret for the moment is that they're looking for an MFF threesome, not an MMF one.

Sadly, all I seem to find these days is the dreaded MMM threesome. Really, if an MMF is the "devil's threesome," what is an MMM?

Even I was surprised to learn of Alyssa's willingness to accept corporal punishment in the context of sex or a relationship. She may have allowed it, but I don't think I would.

Alyssa has agreed to start a "vabbing" experiment, to see just how well Keith can detect pheromones. I wonder what would be the male equivalent?

We get a lot of our questions from Reddit, so for our listeners' enjoyment, here are links to some of the questions we discussed this week:

https://ymmv.me/77/vabbing

https://ymmv.me/77/love

https://ymmv.me/77/domination

Episode Transcript

Transcript automatically generated by a robot. Apologies for any inaccuracies.

  • [00:00] Keith and Alyssa: Hello and welcome to your mileage may vary. We talk about sex and relationships with candor and humor that is frequently controversial but usually in good faith and today it'll probably be an even better faith because Mike is taking an episode break and in his stead is friend of the pod and girlfriend of me Alissa welcome Back Alysa thank you for having me back? Yeah, hopefully we can generate some good content here before we get going here I'm obligated to do the usual annoying podcast intro stuff please rate review and subscribe to your mileage may vary tell your friends about us. And if you have any questions or comments for us. We can be reached at http://ymmvpodat http://gmail.com or at Ymmvpod on Twitter we pay $10 for any feedback readers we receive so go ahead and tell us off and you'll be $10 richer. Okay, we've prepared well okay before I get into that we should probably in the interest of full disclosure melissa and I recorded an hour long episode earlier today and the sound apparently wasn't on yeah the sound is bad which was fortunate because I was also unhappy with. The way alyssa assailed me podcast. So a convenient excuse to paper over that one and so look to this one and so to console ourselves. We um, we ate fish and we drink a lot. Yeah, so yeah, we have beer here. Um cheers. That was a little bit more. Extravagant cracking open sound than I was anticipating. But yeah, we've been to dinner. We've had a few drinks we are in albania we've been traveling around europe for the last five weeks six weeks six weeks yeah yeah currently in a bikini and drinking a al binyian beer where are my glasses so I can read my questions. Life is good. Yeah yeah, I mean it's still it is none p m and it's still ° so yeah, global warming is affecting all of us. So. Right? Um, we've each prepared a list of topics to spur conversation here half of which we lived it already. Um a few hours ago but nobody knows that except for us I think a good way to work through them is to just alternate back and forth between our lists. Shall we start with that and see how it goes I agree. Okay should I go none or show youka first I don't know I feel like your questions were better last time were they it's so they're likely to be better. Yeah, well, they're okay, um, so first off, there's actually a really good one. Um.
  • [02:44] Keith and Alyssa: Coming off of yours you and Mike's last podcast. Yeah, um, personally I really do love how Mike is like really gone deep into the ticktock world. Yeah, like really deep so he knows Lostin. Yeah yeah, so he's like potentially in trouble I love it I actually don't want a tikt talk but I do know about vapping. And babbing. Yeah vabbing so we discussed vabbing on the last episode can you remind the listeners who happened to have missed that None episode. What vabbing is okay so vabbing is the act of sticking your fingers in your pussy and getting your vaginal juices and or discharge and placing them on areas. You would normally place. Perfume like behind your ears on your neck and onto your wris what is the desired effect of this. The desired effect is opposed to like give off pheromones to men to like make them more sexually interested into you I see and or fall in love. But I think it's just more of like a sexual like animalistic interest. Um, so. Because I was into the podcast and Keith is like self-proclaimed that he can actually smell um vagina from like mile away. Okay a mile a little bit I do think there have been times in my life where it's been around I've been around a partner. In a situation where she is not naked for for example at a bar or at a restaurant and I could tell that she was aroused by the weight that she smelled can you tell that I'm aroused by the way that I'll smell or generally you don't. You don't know know you right? at the moment you don't know are you? no, but can you generally tell I think so okay I can't tell if you're like fully dressed with 100% accuracy. Okay well anyway, so I was thinking about this like. Ah, thinking about this whole vabbing thing and I was thinking about but doing a vabmin experiment where I would go go into vab but like not tell you on a day-to-day basis and when I'm doing it but I'm going to tell you now because I want you to call me out when you think that I am and then I'm going to you want to alert me to. Be paying particular attention to whether or not, you're no yeah because I want no I want I'm not gonna tell you that I'm baby I'm just gonna do it secretly. But this is me telling you that's going to happen from this this point forward and I'm just going to document on like my in my calendar when I do and then when you call me up on it. Just to see like how accurate your um, your pheromone senses are okay I of course love the scientific nature of this experiment I'm here for it. Um, you should understand you should understand yes I do think I should tell I can tell but you should understand that.
  • [05:33] Keith and Alyssa: Let's say I think you are vabbing. It is extremely high risk to ask you or tell you that I think that you are because let's say you aren't and I'm like oh man, you kind of smell you can and smell like vagina right now and you're not like that could be pretty offensive. Well none of all my vagina. Smells like fucking raspberries. It does. Yeah and so second of all know rain none of all if you do tell me like hey you look are you vabbing today. It's going to make you feel like wow he's a little bit of roused by me today I will take as a compliment. Okay I can see but I will interest. Like entering into this in good faith I will I will suppress my concerns about the risk of asking if you're vabbingly and just so you know it's going to be fucking chaos theory like sometimes it'll be five days in a row and some days it'll be like like I'll you'll skip two days and some days like who knows what'll happen you but I'll mix I will record it. Good. That's the only way to do it. Yeah I mean if there's any pattern I will if there's any perturbations that can be predictable I will notice them and the name of science in the name of science. Okay, all right. It's my turn. Yeah have a question. Um, let's do this one. We are on albanian internet here. So it's a little bit slow. Okay, this person says do women's quote pussy throb unquote when they see their man I heard this on Tiktok. Saying that this is how they know their man is the one I asked my girlfriend and she said hers does too sometimes when she sees me is this an all girl thing. How did I not know this so this question is boring but I am mostly interested in understanding what your experience of arousal is. When you're around or just some generally when I'm aroused now when you're aroused no when you're around oh. Well obviously you're neveroused when I'm not so um I cannot know I can relate to the the whole pussy throbbing like when. You know, like when you're like when you're just like really into somebody like you're kind of arous and you feel like it's just like your heartbeats in it. So I can relate to that for sure what is can you describe the like I don't know the details of the physical skin sensation a bit more. Um. Gosh I mean how much more can I describe than like it's like your heart being your vagina and it starts to throb I mean it where where's it. what's what's It. It it is my vagina am I clitoris. Okay, um, so I think it really just it varies I think it depends on my state of arousal um, generally for me, it doesn't really take.
  • [08:23] Keith and Alyssa: Like that much time for me to go from None to say like 80% per se you know so I'll go when you say it doesn't take that much time can you quantify that a bit like maybe like 15 seconds or so whoa like going from like you know, nothing to like very wet wait if you were bone dry and then. Somebody applied maximum stimulus to you you think you could go from bone dry to like super wet in 15 seconds oh even in less how often have I been dry I mean it's like a slip and slide down there. Yeah, like my my experience of you but i. I normally wait at least 15 seconds between like initiating coming onto you and going down to there. You go to check the status there. You go of your lady parts. so yeah and so I be like at Barr's I mean generally if um, it doesn't take a lot for me like I think I'm generally a horny person. Um. If I'm not feeling it in the moment. Um, if a partner said like say apply to like some stimulus like um, kissing me in like araina zones touching me in ways. What are your aroinous zones o um, my nipples um, obviously like in or around like Mygenitalia. Um. Lower back shoulders back of the neck. Okay, those things. Yeah, this comports with my experience. He is you can hear Keith scribbling notes. Unfortunately this thing reveal it that you might have a new one. Oh the tip of my right elbow has old news but maybe be just like. Nibble my none nipple like um, yeah so I mean like I don't think it I think generally if it goes from like my normal stage of arousal like going from none to None within like 15 seconds or not being really aroused like having some stimulus like I want to say it's like maybe like. A minute. Okay and 30 second does anything. It doesn't take long. Okay, what about on the downside like let's say you recognized a false alarm and a false alarm I don't know you're watching television say somebody awesome like Ryan Gosling comes on the screen huh. And but it's just a commercial. It's 30 gosling. Yeah, ah so but he that is the perfect man and I can't really be bumed from that position but let's say he comes on the screen where somebody yeah Ryan Gosling to you I don't know who that would be but maybe maybe it's me on a commercial. But it's but it's a commercial. It's 30 seconds it ends and now you're like oh okay, well now I'm going to return to like normal behavior. How long does it take to sort of for the arousal to dissipate. He takes I think it is.
  • [11:11] Keith and Alyssa: Ah, while I mean generally like if I get horny. It's um I yeah I get like a little bit cranky and like I'll try to master if I have the chance to like I just will okay, you know you don't want to waste the opportunity. Oh no, absolutely not okay, you know I mean also it's just it's justnoying because then I have like this weird. Energy generally for my work and it happens I'll just try and channel like all of like that horny energy into something else you I mean but if not then learning your job better like yeah, like doing my job better like I like like actually doing my job to like taking care of people you know like I'm just like you know what? Karen. Fucking got you? Karen was an unfortunate name choice of this situation. But yeah, okay, right? This makes sense. Okay, that sounds about right? Ah, who asked the last question was it, you were me it was you oh okay okay you're a oh I have a go on actually home on. Let me get into it. So regarding threesomes. Yeah, what would be like the perfect circumstance and environment for you to want up a threesome with me the opportunity's out there right? but I just I know like collating all this information from all the other podcasts. Yeah I know that you're worried that. Things may go wrong or something but like what would be like what would like be like the perfect situation like the perfect circumstance and like the perfect person to be like this is all right? This system's going to happen and this doesn't mean great all right I you know me understand confusion here but I just need clarify a few points. Okay, yeah. Not worried that something will go wrong. I'm worried that at the end of the experience one 2 or 3 parties will be very upset and that is that the downside risk of that occurring. Does not ah justify or the up the upside of the potential superior experience of having a threesome does not seem to be enough to overcome that downside risk in my mind but okay, so but look in it. Fm m three some not an mfmm. Yeah, that's no enough Fmf and an Fmf. Okay, that's this that's the one. So I'm having sex with 2 yeah, so two females. Yeah you in the middle of all in the middle of that bad sandwich. Yeah, and then but not in mfm where I'm in. And a doubles 3 some like how would you be the person that's hurt in that situation generally like you would think that I would be the person who's hurt in the situation. So like how would say you're the party who's being hurt in the situation. Well first off Alyssa I care deeply about your feelings. So.
  • [13:59] Keith and Alyssa: And so in this situation where your feelings are hurt. My feelings would also be hurt So How would my feelings be hurt I don't know maybe you wouldn't like how much pleasure I was able to deliver to this. Second woman. Well I mean isn't that the point like yeah, you think that's the point though I don't think women think this through like I think they're like oh want my man to be satisfied and you know I Really like seeing him. You know, sexually satisfied but then they don't realize like what emotional damage is done by watching him enjoy another woman but okay so I could understand that like in maybe the sitting there maybe and this is just like a. Me speculating in a scenario. Um, where say like a couple was like oh I'm gonna do this 3 some I'm gonna do it for my boyfriend his birthday. Yeah, and I'm really excited because he really wants this and then like said partner was very upset about it. Um, but I feel like in. The event of having a threesome.. There would be a lot of discussion before going into it like obviously you have to agree on said None partner like you have to both be attracted to them you to both not fucking hate them. Yeah, um, you agree on certain boundaries that you don't want you know overstepped like. You know, listen to come in them if they don't have birth control. It's like vily ghost. Okay, it's not just if they don't have birth control I'm just like you don't want to see me jiz and some other girl woman I mean I don't know like I'm I mean like so you probably I mean I can I mean if. If I'm birth control and if they consent it's about the pregnancy Risk. It's the it's the experience of seeing me excited about another person. Okay so I actually don't agree with that can go on I don't So I think if and this is. Conversations We have a lot I think consent has a lot to play in this right? like said say if I came home one day and I cooked you this really nice dinner and I came home this and type of this hypothetical and like I saw you like you know balls deep in someone and you came in somebody and I was like whoa. Wet know about this this is like you're cooking me dinner in the kitchen and then you come into the living room and they I don't know the scenario is basically like come but something like something weird happens of like gee I'm like whoa. Okay, you did You weren't expecting this and suddenly you want and consent to this. Yes, you know like you also be very and very upset because I think the difference between both set scenarios like there's no,, There's no real.
  • [16:44] Keith and Alyssa: Difference in the scenario except for the the instance of consent right? like if both parties agree like hey like we're gonna be doing this thing together. Um, this none person agrees everyone consents in this like everyone feels. Okay, we've set some boundaries here. We won't do a b and c and everyone has a good time. That's okay, but if you did something against. Like my will or against my consent then I guess I would be pretty sad about it. You know what percentage of time. Do you think I should spend focused on the other person versus you. Oh I don't know I'm want to collate that I mean I've been in three months before 5050? Oh I mean in a sexual and like. In like a perfect world right? Like if you can split 50% of like said time before like you insert something and then you like come yeah, sure. But I think it just depends wellheartedly on like what happens right? like I think if we like set up some ground rules and things know like and things may not be perfect like there may be like in this I'm calling like you know what? I was a little bit. And bummed that like you like that you're paying like a little bit more attention than to this person than me but like we had a conversation. We have a conversation about and we're able to kind of like communicate our feelings about it like that's okay, you know things aren't perfect. Yeah, but I don't I think you're being naive about the the oh my. Naive I had like more threeomes. Yes, you've had infinitely more because I've had 0 and you've had but 4 5 4 4 Mark you know the old meme where like. You take a woman's number and you multiply it by 3 you take a man's number and define it by None so you get None threeomes. Okay, good for you. Ah yeah I think that um on the other side of. Seeing me enjoy another woman I'm not sure that you would be as cheerleading for that experience as you imagine you might be. that's the concern anyway that's I think I mean I it's the right concern to have right? It's like it's better to be like kind of like under versus because I care about you so much. Yeah, you know, but I'm just saying is that I think if both parties all parties like have like a really good conversation about it. I think you can go really well also like reverse cooking is totally a thing. You know what I mean reverse cucking with reverse cooking so reverse so couping is um so it's this thing in porn where. A sport it not just one but into general where a partner. So usually the man will advocate and watch their female partner have sex with another man say like they're called a bull a bowl. Yeah and called a bowl and they'll just like in they'll.
  • [19:29] Keith and Alyssa: They want to watch them have sex in them and they'll generally do something they called sloppy seconds will the fuck them after um, like eat the comma the guy out like out of their like vagina after and so reverse cookcking is the female version of that where they will watch their man have sex with another female and like masturbate and it's it's a wrong scene and I think. Rus are you are you a you? a reverse cuck aficionado I can get into it for sure I watched reverse cookcking videos on porn hub andively distracted imagine imagine me or a partner. You like? Yeah I just the abstraction is different than the actual experience. Same nothing thing you call like the um the discuss reflex like when how it like the bars like dropped really low. Yeah when you're aroused yes people like. Something that would normally be discussing to them is not when they're aroused so generally I think that's kind of the case like when say you have like a None person so I feel like you're kind of interested to have like a none party. It's like that reflects that ref reflects of like jealousy or possession. It tends to drop like really low like when you're aroused right like possession i. Wonder if possession drops I do think ah and jealousy I do think that disgust poorly I think of just I think this okay when I've thought about this in the past I've normally thought about it ah with respect to I don't know various orphices. So ah. An anus might be less disgusting to me than it would be otherwise when I'm super aroused but I'm not sure if jealousy and what was the other word you used possession and possession. They correlate to each other right. Gel in possession for sure. But I'm not sure that those reflex. In fact, I can imagine those reflexes being enhanced when I'm aroused like if I'm super aroused and I saw you flirting with someone else for example and I might find that more irritating than I would in a non-aroused state. With another woman that you're also gonna be having sex with for instance, yeah, okay, that's I mean that's an interesting caveat. Yeah I'm not sure I don't know only None way to find out. Yeah um, tall our female listeners if anyone wants to put in a application I would love a little snippet about yourself and your um. Zodiac sign just to piss off Keith and this and she has sugar. Okay, all right next? Okay, it's my it's my turn. Okay, ah this person on Reddit said and this is three point four thousand of votes told the guy I'm dating I love you during sex and he came.
  • [22:20] Keith and Alyssa: We've been exclusively dating for a few months last night I told him I love you in the heat of the moment because the sex was so hot and intimate and he kept kissing me during it and then he came inside of me by accident when I said it he's he didn't say it back but he orgasmed what do I make of it should I feel stupid for being the one to say at None
  • [22:41] Keith and Alyssa: Why do you and Mike always ask me these questions. What question? What's these questions. So like I think you guys asked me a question last time like look oh I asked my sugar I like told my sugar baby I loved her when I had sex with her like I like when I was when she was giving me a head. And want to walk it back I don't remember that although yeah, don't tell your sugar babies. You're in love with them. Ah I can't imagine like if a woman told me that she loved me like midcoitus I would that would not be a turn on. Especially if it was the none time like wait. It was the first time they had sex. No. It was the none time that someone said that they loved the oh yeah, no I think that that pulls up a lot of yellow flags for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely I mean let's say you're on a. Fourth date I would have said none but because I know you're a very classy lady. It would take at least 4 ah me a face but None okay would wait wait wait wait till ask my next question but go many day many dates. Okay, you finally. You finally decided that you would like to have sex with this with this gentleman. Ah and halfway through he's like oh my gosh Alyssa I just need to she's making another face and it's not None of pleasure and he just says I love you I love you. I mean I don't think no right? That's not the time or place. Well first of all, um, yellow flag dropped I'm so I'm assuming that this person is going to wear my skin like a fucking winter winter coat. Um, secondly why would you you elaborate on that that means. That they like you too much. It's me alluding to like some like ah true crime stuff which like oof oh because because their timing is so poor that timing so poor and they're like their hat. It's just it' it's just it's a little bit freaky to me. Um, telling someone telling you that they love you like no meco is yeah and also it' just like I think it's it's it's that it just feels a bit performative to me where I'm like we're just dropping some flags here. We're like ah this is maybe the right time or the right place. Maybe his normal reservations were just lowered and. He's just feels liberated to be on oh his disgust Reflex was lowered. No. Okay that true hopeful that is true per our conversation. But yeah, maybe he was too afraid to say it in the light of day but in the peak of arousal he felt emboldened and just letted loose.
  • [25:31] Keith and Alyssa: Like I don't believe anything that someone tells me when they're coming to me. Yeah that's probably a good yeah policy tell you like this. What I went are there any strange things that people have told you I'm going tell my grandkids this never believe what a man tells you when they're coming inside of you I mean I don't think our grandkids are gonna have organic sex I think they're gonna be. Um, sort of machine learning. Well I'll tell them to tell the ai that anyway for the sake of a tell the robot that okay all right. It's your turn. Okay, right? Who. This is actually a good I got this one I got this one we read it actually oh good. So I got this off the relationship. Um thread I says let's see how many of you remember the None time you had sex with the partner. You're currently with I'm going to ask some questions. Oh boy. Okay. So for people who don't know um me in Keith's very none sexual interaction was really would it. It wasn't it. No one would know this actually so it was it was not It was not very romantic. Okay, but very on brand excuse. It was extremely romantic. None brought where my I it. Prior to you mostline due to my ameberation. Yeah, but we neither so basically neither None of us remember it but this is this is a good I remember the important part. It's a good the the important part was eating and come inside of me because I told you not to yeah that was okay so this is a good thought exercise. So one. Where were you guys coming back from before you had sex. Yeah was it like a movie a dinner etc. Question Mark it was a dinner at a barbecue place I think it was a barbecue place they served barbecue I think their specialty was barbecue in San Jose California okay do I win. You do win and what position or positions did you guys have sex in oh my I'm glad i' asking you all the good ones. Ah I know you don't remember this but I remember clearly you. Expressed that it was the best sex you'd ever had and you were just positions babe so surprised by my capability positions and what positions were we in I have no idea. Yeah, okay, what I remember is I remember okay I know I'm I'm certain. That one of the positions was missionary because I think I think that I think that initial sexual encounters should start with missionary I don't know about should I think they are most likely to be successful if they start with missionary. Okay so I remember it being a missionary because I remember.
  • [28:18] Keith and Alyssa: You saying you were going to come and I remember saying telling you ah I'm not on birth control we were in merchant missionary and merceary we and were yes we were missionary and I being like I not on birth control and then like you quickly corrected. Ah, that's all I really remember that of of thatcation. Anyway, um, where were we when we had sex. We were in your apartment. Yes, and what made the sex good or bad. Um this sounds like None of those trap questions what made it good is that it was with you what made it um what made it bad was nothing. Is the what us remember? Yeah okay well that was it that way got that from red it they we was that 6 that felt like None no no, it was only they only put four on here I think they can't count on red what else is new. Yeah, okay, here's one for you. Okay, ladies when you say quote do whatever you want unquote in bed. What kinds of things are you expecting your male partners to do personally when she says you can do whatever you want I get a little intimidated because for the most part I was already doing whatever I want ah very male center. Point of view there. Oh wait. That's answer of the question. Oh so when you say do whatever you want in bed. What kinds of things have you have you said that to a partner. Oh yeah, totally okay, generally what are you expecting? What are you hoping for? no generally I'm expecting some dominance. Oh yeah, well generally I say that to somebody on a none sexual encounter I think people tend to be a little bit none sexual encounter. Well sure oh you're liberating them. Yeah you'rere, you're communicating to them that you're there. You're're you're here for it. Yeah, if I'm allowing you into like Dante's inferno just okay, just like go have at it have fun. It's a little bit risky to say. Do it. Want some guy you're on your none date with totally um Alissa made a face of me earlier when I suggested she might have sex on earth or date. So I keep bumping the number up. Okay, so you've decided to have sex with this person and you you know them? well enough to be comfortable allowing them into your bedroom but not necessarily well enough to know that if you tell them to do whatever they want that something weird isn't going to happen right. Yeah, generally I don't right? but I mean I think I have calculated I mean like I will only say this is somebody I know that I can I'm in a equal thisist fight with and generally so if someone if like I if I had sex with somebody so they need to be like none pounds or less.
  • [31:03] Keith and Alyssa: No I mean like if I if I know I can take them like I know I can take them at least a equal and if I like if I die know I'll leave a mark. Okay, yeah, that that's my ob be so that's thats I'm scarring That's my rule for everything but um, yeah, like when I say do whatever you want. It's kind of like an invitation like hey. Like you don't have to feel shy. Um, you don't have to and then generally it's a euendemism for relax I want to have sex with you Don that yeah, no, but not only that. But I think generally when people feel shy about doing something with you. They want to do they generally will ask but so they'll say something like. Oh are are you in is this? Okay I'm glad you brought are you into choking is yeah like if can I'm glad you brought this up so you know there's been a lot of discussion in the last you know n years about micro consent and so yeah, like. Do you think a man should ask before pulling your hair this is difficult because there's the correct answer to this which is yes you should say yes I you know you should ask for consent at all at all portions and. just just for the sake of this conversation. Let's stipulate that we understand that you should ask for consent at all moments and the general advice to ask for consent as much as possible is correct but um, in terms of your personal tastes and. Assume that the person you're with is someone that you vaguely trust right? You're not concerned that they're going to go crazy and harm you in some way and you're sexually interested in them. Would you prefer? Yeah like what were. Where do you think your preference is like this is almost impossible. This is almost an impossible question because there's no, it's ah it's a really It's a really good spicy question but I'm going to preface it by saying if you don't know the best plan of action is to always ask. And honestly, it's like askings not not sexy. It really isn't like people always think like oh like what's like ah like a sexy way of asking for consent every time it' like just fucking ask. There's no like there's no not sexy way of asking and so that's totally fine is that true I think no I don't think that asking can be a bit of a turnoff. A bit a bit beta so in my personal preference if someone asks me to do anything like if someone's just like can I hold your hand um, can I do this kind of kiss you now? Yeah, like if if every single um, step like say every single Nasa step.
  • [33:43] Keith and Alyssa: Like yeah, you know like you know when Nasa like we're in step 30 yeah, like you know when Nasa checking about ah hydrogen and Jack right? Yeah, yeah, so and they're like like steps take 25 can we ask that can we get like a um, a consent on 2 parties and then ask to It's like so. Ah, for my personal preference and this is just me talking for my personal preference and like my own experience. Um, generally there are some boundaries that shouldn't be crossed like anything that's rough anything that you don't know with a partner. Um, but if someone's like into me and like I trust them and we've had like some and I assume that we've been on a few dates. We've had some conversations beforehand. Yep, if you know. So okay, just go for it and the minute that I express any discomfort and I say no that person should be able to like relinquish that issue my bad sorry but Alissa you know that's a big imposition on the woman. A lot of women feel some trepidation or some fear and they may not. Feel 100% enabled to express any kind of hesitation or concern. You know? Um I've definitely been there before I think a lot of women have been there before and I think it's this I mean you're a very confident and strong woman and so yeah, but so I'm also I'm also. None ears old right? And so yeah, you better? Yeah so I mean i'm' a man around the block. What I started seeing it and aored that and I met I been around the block. Well maybe 1 or 2 you've had a lovely person for a long time anyway, I mean. It. It takes a while for you to find your voice and to find your strength and stuff and so generally like my advice to people is like it may not be perfect and things will happen and you may um yeah like you may like with some concerns where there may not be concerns like and like you may change your mind on the road or. Like you may not voice concerns like where you didn't really like something like as you go about life like you'll learn and like that that was just my experience and like I've had some things happen to me where um, like I maybe didn't like it very much but like I did learn from it. You know? yeah um but my advice to any partner if you just don't know just ask yeah yeah I think just ask. It's okay, it's sexy to ask. It is I feel like it's not always sexy to ask I think so you asked me to kiss me on our none like on our None date I know sexy I'm a classy gentleman you are. Tellman and that but you could imagine a woman being like I just want a man I want a man to take charge I want a man to go for it. I think that if you go on day with somebody. You can generally read into those things like you have conversations with somebody like you kind of are getting like ah a basic idea of.
  • [36:26] Keith and Alyssa: Their likes or dislikes their boundaries maybe and let's say like you maybe you try something and they don't like it. Well the the minute someone says no, then you're like oh my god I'm so sorry I read into that wrong. My bad. What can I do to make it better. Yeah, you know like can I do to make it better sure I mean like in a perfect. Yeah, you know. Get me an edible arrangement and $1000000 okay, you're up. How was my turn. Yeah is it? Okay I think so what's the weirdest thing that's happened to you like midcoitus and did you finish. And I don't want to hear about the toilet paper story because I hear about that all the time. Yeah I mean for our nonmonetary listeners I once was dating somebody. We were on. Maybe our none sexual encounter none date. No maybe none sexual encounter none date. That's not important. Anyway, she returned from the restroom and there was some toilet paper on her outer labia and it freaked me out and I couldn't I mean it was really bothered by it that it was disgusting and I kind of. Noped out of the situation and shortly thereafter the relationship but did you finish? No oh I don't gosh I mean why this was a long time ago. This is like at least None ears and it might might have been twelve years or so I don't remember. But I remember I was in her bed I was at her apartment and she yeah she was bent over and I remember I saw it and I don't remember if I finished that's okay, if you did I don't know if you know this I've had sex with other people. I don't remember I don't remember I did all this is funny. All I remember is being revolted I don't remember if I you know rolled up my sleeves and got after it anyway or if i. Okay, made some sort of excuse wait I said I said I want to hear the toilet paper story. Okay, sorry yes, sorry I want to hear about something else. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay, um, okay, the question was what is some weird experience. I've had midcoitus. And did I finish finish. Yes I don't have anything great here. You know, let me just off the top of my mind I've had some partners who were excessively loud and I don't I'm easily embarrassed I don't like I don't like being.
  • [39:17] Keith and Alyssa: Around people like there have been times when you and I have been at a restaurant and I feel like I can tell that people I can tell that people are irritated or people can tell that you and I are like quibbling about something and I get like mortified by it and it's unreasonable. But I'm super sensitive. That kind of thing and so I think that I mean in that and and it's just super amplified by a situation. That's obviously sexual and I feel like the people in the neighboring apartments can hear what's going on and is that a dog I think it's a dog anyway. Yeah,, there's a we're in a hotel and anyway I don't know if that came out on the microphone anyway and I feel like imposing sex noise on my neighbors is a mortifying offense and really don't like that. And I've had a couple partners who were super loud like that and you finished didn't mortify you enough Look What's a man supposed to do I mean and also what is the quickest way to slow that down like let's say I'm like all right. Ah, really want to quiet this person down as quickly as possible I'm inside of them. They are clearly enjoying the proceedings Now what? what should I do to most quickly shut them Up. I could I could orcast up as quickly as possible, thereby shutting things down or I can be like ah you know I'm just feeling sort of tired but then they're just gonna yeah, they're not gonna and they're not going to take no for an answer they're gonna you know. They're going to feel insecure about me not orgasming and you know blah Blah Blah Blah blah like I think it's I think the quickest waves to finish. So Really I think I was doing a favor for everybody fair enough. Yeah, do you have a any what any weird like a situation I might have another one. Oh. Yeah, you into your mind. First yeah, when you and you can think a little bit more about yours. Okay, um I was with a partner once and we were outside and ah it was in a I was going to say a national park. But I think it might be a federal.. What do they call it National reservation area. It's technically a national park. This isn't relevant to the story but we were having sex outdoors and there were some rocks and.
  • [42:03] Keith and Alyssa: They were a little bit I don't know unsteady or I wasn't able to get supported in the way you know I'm used to the bed apparatus and knowing yield your compfisance. Okay, no okay, but I'm so I'm sorry. Is your comfort zone for having sex. Not a bed I think where a dick is by no and 99% of all people's sexual experiences are into bed I know how a bed works where to put my hands like where it's stable where I can do whatever. Ah anyway I scraped my knee on a rock. And it was bleeding like fairly ah heavily it like dripping down my leg and whatever and he finished. yeah heck yeah I think good for you. that's that's hot this was another situation where hot what am we supposed to do like if I pull out and I'm like oh my leg. I don't think that's gonna be good for the long term. Okay, so when I'm hearing to see you like a little bit of pain before you come doly know bit I'm gonna note that on my calendar. What are yours on my oh my word experience has been quite is is that your question. Yes, and I get to ask another question. No that is. That's my guessing ending your question. Um I got palms really hard None time during like mid-sex palm does so like slapped. Yeah I got like I got the shit slapped out of me like midset like mid-sex where it was like one of those things where like. Got slap so where the face exactly like like did cheek bone. No across my face I got slapped so like this guy's hand was like the sizes of my face. So like when he slapped me it was like it was like Shaquille O'neill or something. Yeah, it was like it was like shaquie oneel slacking the shit out and me like my like my head snapped back really hard I never been like huh oh okay, um, so wait just to dismiss it to like two pole I so much. That's it's such a like okay so to be specific. We talk about the the disgust ref reflectx a lot like being like the bars being very lowered a lot like during arousal. Yeah, so I know for myself and this is just. Me speaking for myself. Um, the bar is basically on the ground. The bar has basically been dropped onto the ground every single time and so you'll tolerate a lot when maximally aroused there's there's not really a lot that will turn me off like I'm not really into like a lot of other bodily fluids during sex. Like I'm not into what poop or blood. Yeah, like like like like scat play like blood um like piss play and stuff like you know things like that. No like no offense to anyone else like my personal preferences I just I'm never like I be outside John go on here on point. Yes, anyway, um.
  • [44:44] Keith and Alyssa: Yeah, got the shit slept on me and fucking and I was like I never thinking myself like my initial reaction was like what the fuck I was like really offended but at the same time was kind of like I'll allow it. Do you bruise from said slap yeah, my face I was like my face was swollen now. What did you do the next day. About my day. Nobody asked if you fell down the stairs. No I wasn't it wasn't like bruised or anything like that. My face was like a little bit sold in but it was fine and I remember kind of being like I'll allow it I had I have a friend who has had partners that like being ah. Knocked around a bit and his concern has been that the abuse not the abuse is what's what's the right word the the dominance the dominance that he's inflicted will be visible in the coming days and that could cause. Problems for that person this this are not an issue in your in your case. No it wasn't it wasn't issue issue. My I mean like granny he was a little bit scary but I liked it by but it was like it was like that it was kind of is one you was. Weird things were like it happened to me. Yeah, and I remember being extremely offended, mid-sex and I was like what it the fuck but I was also kind of like I will allow it and I really enjoyed it like I really did hu you know and the other thing was I got my toe sucked midsex well hold on None same person same person same person different engagement different engagements same person in this engagement where he slapped you was there like any leadup like yes there some hair falling or choking or yeah mean it wasn't like it wasn't like our none sexual encounter like did doing missionary did he es or micro consent. No okay. Do you wish he had no, do you appreciate the confusion here I do appreciate the confusion here. That's why I am not my word doesn't stand for all women I have also if. Any if like if like if the f if like the febminist world like wants to like advocate me like put me in front of like it put me like out to be a speak for anything I'll be the worst person ever. But um, yeah, like it was a lot of it wasn't there were the micro consents were. A lot of sexual interactions before like you know prior to that happening where it led upsets so wasn't like you think yeah, you think he ascertained that this was something that was like I said he like I said like he ascertained it like it was he.
  • [47:27] Keith and Alyssa: We had like a conversation or we had some experience together where he was like I think she may like this I'm going to try it. Yeah and if she says no I'll stop. We're like I never felt like I was in danger I never felt taken advantage of I never felt like I didn't want it. Um, in my personal experience because there was a lot of other but can imagine other women's experience. No I and and they're so nuanced right? because for me, it wasn't like it wasn't my none sexual and interaction with this person where I was doing missionary with him on our first sexual night she like palmed the shit out of me into like next year yeah you know it was like you know we had sex. And we had like a bit of like rough erects before that was like a lot of hair pulling like a lot of choking. Yeah, a lot of like you know so he thought this was a natural progression. Yeah yeah, but like it just so happened that this guy was like he had like he basically his arms or the size of my thighs. Yeah and he like slap the shit out of me and I was a little bit offended. But also but also I was like it was. Um, and I also recognize I but like that the dichotomy where I was kind of like a little bit mad about it but also wasn't so do you miss that miss white being slapped. No I don't really want to slap you. Like super high on my list of like guys look its like to do list look the things that I enjoy or if my partner enjoys it I'm really into it like if I was if had a partner who was like really into cooking and I was like I not really I was like it's like not on the top of my list. But if they're really into it I'm game. Yeah, you know so really like a lot of my arousal comes from my partner's arousal and if my partner's arousal comes from like palming the shit out of me right? I'll allow it. You know, um, as long as like I have a safe word. Um and he doesn't actually do scarring data. Yeah physical damage to me. Yeah, exactly I mean if there's. If. There's like a safety and consent in everything but like both parties are really aroused or life good consent. Yeah yeah, but like a lot of arousal comes from like my friend arousal. So I mean like if you're not into it like I'm on it. But you're into it I'm game to try all right fair enough. Okay I think we have time for 1 and or 2 more. Do you have another good one or do you want me to go I think you should go because I was going to hash out our boyfriend girlfriend argument. But oh no I think we should do that. Okay, okay, so we have this argument about the specifications. It's basically like.
  • [49:51] Keith and Alyssa: What what? what constituttees like a birth boy a birthfriend a boyfriend or girlfriend like the dating differences. So Keith's argument is that you if you're having sex with somebody and within like say you have sex with someone for a month if you guys are having sex and. You guys are like supposedly not have a sex with other people you guys are boyfriend or girlfriend and he thinks I'm weird because I so only um, title like None people in my entire life has been like my boyfriend ah because those are people I've had a relationship with. Yeah, and he thinks that I am not a normal person that like that's not I'm an anomaly okay hold on I'm going to straw man your case here. Okay Alissa thinks that only after you've been sleeping with someone for six months and you've met their entire family. Not all of their friends and you're engaged. Can you then call them your boyfriend otherwise. Calling somebody your boyfriend or girlfriend is presumptuous and outrageous and old fashioned That's not the argument that is a terrible you are wrong man welcome you're welcome to what's a terrible strong man. No straw man. That's it's terrible. But. Why did you steal me on your case. So it's not about so basically it's not about like dating someone for six months and like being with him for a long time. It doesn't matter if you've been with somebody for a week. Um, a none sexual encounter or a none dates. The the difference is. Consent on both parties and discussion on both parties that you're like hey are we in a relationship or not yes and for me that's only happened to me 4 times where I've been in 4 relationships to people where I was like this is my boyfriend and so and I've dated. Lot of people I think we've maybe had like an equal amount of sexual partners. But maybe I think I've had more you get more whatever I'm older than you two. We've gone back and forth on this. We've both have we have both had many many many sexual partners. Yeah, but I'm more of a slut anyway, no I don't know if we've wrestled that one to the ground anyway and it because doesn't matter our going you have had you have had 4 people myself included that you would have. That you have called your boyfriend so I would like title as a personse I've been in a relationship with and the difference is that these people wait wait wait wait. Let's just for the sake of clarity that you would have called your boyfriend right? Okay, yeah, and so I have dated people so there's people have like dated and like I think the difference between dating someone is like someone that you've.
  • [52:34] Keith and Alyssa: Had a sexual relationship with you do like the the normal boyfriend girlfriend things that go on days. Do whatever maybe not meet your family Whatever yeah, but the difference is you have this conversation of like are we a relationship. Okay and I just listen look I just don't agree because Keith will say so Keith's argument is he's like. Anyone I've had sex with for longer than a month that's my girlfriend and I just don't agree if every single person that you called your girlfriend in your past. Would they agree that you they were you were their boyfriend all right. My turn my experience is after. I have had sex with a woman a few times they very quickly start angling toward the dtr defining the relationship conversation and the None date. Whatever I can do to avoid said conversation. Can do so I can put out the flair and the chaff and the various diversion tactics but sooner or later. She's going to say where's this going and at that point I sort of have a choice I can say well. Dating many other women here I'm not looking for anything serious. But if I do that she'll nope out and go away and so my choice is I need to offer some sort of mild commitment to this person or. Ah I can be without that person and once that mild commitment's been offered like I know they're already telling their friends that I'm their boyfriend and that their future planning and it's frustrating. But I think that this is the way that the majority of women operate now you are very, you're sort of very in charge of your own happiness. Um I guess liberal in the sense. Of the way that you consider relationships and what constitutes something serious. But I think most women still even in coastal cities like the one we live in San Francisco are looking for something long term and if they're not seeing some sort of trajectory toward that pretty quickly they will nope out and so I'm I'm basically forced to call people so you're my girlfriend. Why.
  • [55:23] Keith and Alyssa: So a lie it's a lie it's not a lie it's just ah it's a it's a vocabulary disagreement I don't I don't it's not like I'm saying oh this person's my girlfriend and then I'm out philandering and sleeping with like a bunch of other women once I've committed to someone. As tenuous as it may be I'm not still going on other dates. It's just that I'm not as serious about them as I presume they are about me I just I know that when you we have this disagreement you tend to say that I'm a bit of an anomaly and. That like I'm like that I'm I'm unre like I'm not the reason I'm just I'm just unique in this way. But everyone who's in my life and who are my friends and I talk to they agree with me like me and I'm trying to like ask them anything are trying to like you know, um, like. You know support my bias or anything but they generally agree with me and I wonder is it like a age demographic thing is it because if there's a difference between gen x and you know like the and a millennial different like difference is is there like a difference between like causal cities for like the midwest. Is there like a universe like a weird universe standard that's different amongst cultures and among like different people like Imp Personalities what is that I think that women are looking to settle down generally even in San Francisco even in. Well. Let's zoom out a bit if you were to take relationships if you excluded the United States from consideration here like most people marry in their early 20 s and or mid teens right? Like I mean it's it's would be considered barbaric from coastal elite. City standards if you were to only consider coastal elite cities I think that you will see a shift in the average marriage age from something like late teens or late 20 s to something like late 20 s but nevertheless most women. Settle down with the first man that they really are serious about and if they don't there's a set of women who are looking for who are employing a strategy that. Lets them meet a bunch of different men and are really considering different options. But I think most women try to basically I mean I don't know if it's biological or if it's cultural. But I think most women try to lock down people.
  • [58:12] Keith and Alyssa: As quickly as they can even in San Francisco I think we're arguing about semantics here because I think it's like the idea of the vocabulary boyfriend or girlfriend right? I mean like there's no like it's like like the whole sticks and stones thing right? Um, words. Generally and don't mean anything but they really do right? like vocabulary means a lot and like the the I agree I'm annoyed when people impose me calling them my girlfriend on me right? No I agree but like so like vocabulary, it's like yeah it doesn't really mean it. There's like no legal standing for anything right? But yeah, right. It's ah it's not like ah it's not like an actual like paper marriage. But when you call someone this is my boyfriend. This is my girlfriend. This is my wife is my husband whatever. Um, there's expectations and there's expectations and like responsibilities and responsibilities all all this other stuff right. Was just repeating my expectations and expectations and responsibilities. And yeah, sorry I'm a little bit drunk now. Yeah, there are those things but I don't know why look I don't know why women are so quick to try to define the relationship i. My personal preference would be to you know, go None to 15 dates to find out if we enjoy each other's company and then make some sort of call about exclusivity. But I think women at least in my experience. Are pretty interested in determining whether I am quote unquote serious and imposing some sort of gates that I need to clear to to determine whether or not they want to still see me What do you think? the difference is between like my my social dynamic versus yours where everyone agrees with me and none off almost love your friends will be almost all of your friends married in their twin. Yeah but even they would agree with people that they had sex with around the people they had. In relations with were not their boyfriend. Yeah, but most of them had sex with like 4 people ever? Yeah, but they wouldn't say those 4 people were their boyfriends is that true. Yeah, it is true so they would say they've had None boyfriend ever I think the friends who the friends I do have were married. Say and like and so I have a few friends who few friends who are like me they've dated up until their thirty s or friends who have um, dated and married or friends who have married from their partners in high school even the ones who have dated.
  • [01:00:57] Keith and Alyssa: And like said like they married someone like right out of high school. They would say the 4 people they dated beforehand were not their boyfriends I think that's Rhett Conning it's no because I've known them since high school. So okay, so they would argue that they've only had None boyfriend in their life. Yeah. Okay I don't I don't have like a strong but so counter argument to that other than that that's on the face obviously but how many people like because I apparently I me my friends the the the the anomaly and everyone else that you knows the normal. Like would everyone when else everyone you will call your girlfriend would agree like oh yeah, we were boyfriend girlfriend the entire time. Oh absolutely I'm what I'm sure. There's a set of women even the month long ones I'm sure there's a set of women who I never called my girlfriend who would say that I was their boyfriend. There is no way that I was imposing a boyfriend girlfriend label on anyone I ever saw like I would avoid that like the plague.
  • [01:02:05] Keith and Alyssa: We're staring at each other awkwardly here I I'm just saying so you don't believe would I would know I would avoid it like a plague and therefore that's why I've only had 4 boyfriends? Yeah, but maybe some of those men would have called you your girlfriend I doubt it I highly doubt it. And think I was very verbal. Yeah I don't know. Okay, well if everyone right in listeners. We've been We've been going for an hour here it's time to wrap this up. Yeah listeners if you have any opinions on this write us in a big Thank you tolissa! Thanks for tolerating me throughout the episode. Love you and generally love you too. Congratulations listener. You've just made it all the way through episode 77 of your mileage may vary. We hope you've enjoyed yourself and we hope to have you back next time on your mileage may vary.